1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,639 Speaker 1: All right, Team Box, special treat for you all. Today, 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: we are joined by author and former Navy seal Jack Carr. 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: His newest book out now is Savage Son. He's also 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: the author of The Terminal List and True Believer. Mister Carr, 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: How are you doing, sir? You being great? How are 6 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: you there in New York City. I'm I'm in a 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: little bit of a rougher spot in terms of geographic 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: location right now than you are. I think you're on 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: Utah right so things here a little rougher than out there. 10 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: But I'm glad you're doing well. Yeah, no, we're in Utah. 11 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: I need to raise our kids in a ski town. 12 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: So we came up here after I got out of 13 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: the military, left Coronado, And yeah, it's not too bad 14 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: up here. I have a feeling you probably have. You 15 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: have sufficient breathing room slash, plenty of ammunition, storable food, 16 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: potable water. I'm just gonna guess all those things. So yeah, 17 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,639 Speaker 1: I've always been in it being prepared for him, even 18 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,639 Speaker 1: before my Seal team days. But yeah, we were good 19 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: with the ammo and the guns, of course, and then 20 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: water filtration systems, ways to make fire, all those little things. 21 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: So that you can focus bandwidth where it needs to 22 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: go in times of crisis. So I felt good. Finally 23 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: my wife's like, oh, now I see why we've been 24 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: preparing for these things all these years. And uh so, anyway, 25 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: we feel good about that part of it anyway. So 26 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: so I want to talk about your books a bit, Jack, 27 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: But but first I thought we would let everybody know 28 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: a little bit more about who you are and how 29 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: you got to this point where now you're you're writing thriller. What, 30 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: by the way, how would we class about thriller action novel? 31 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not really espionage, right, so thriller along 32 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: the lines of go ahead, It's like, so it's a 33 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: political thriller, the same type of books that brad Or, 34 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: Vince Flynn, Nelson to Mill Stephen Hunter, those kind of novels. 35 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: So political thriller is how it's classified, all right, But 36 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: people are gonna want to know that they hear former 37 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: Navy seal and they want to know some of the 38 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: some of the background there. How how did you know? 39 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: Tell us where'd you start out and how did you 40 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: get into the teams? Yeah, so I wanted to do 41 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: two things my entire life. One was served my country 42 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: in uniform, specifically as an ab seal, and the other 43 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: was to write fiction. And I wanted to go in 44 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: the military at first because I grew up with the 45 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: idea of my grandfather as my hero. He was killed 46 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: in World War Two. He flew the Corsair, which is 47 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: a plane that had the goal wings that would fold 48 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: up on aircraft carriers. So I grew up with the 49 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: silk maps that used to give aviators back then his medals, 50 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: black and white photos of him and his squadron and 51 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: black sheep squadron was on TV at the time, starring 52 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: Robert Conrads. So this is the late seventies, early eighties, 53 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: and I just knew that that was the path I 54 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: was going to take. I was going to serve my 55 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: country in the uniform. It was it was a calling 56 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: that I found out very early on what seals were. 57 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: And my dad, well, I was watching football, put might 58 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: I would watch football on the weekends, and there was 59 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: those four channels, as you may or may not remember, ABC, CBS, NBC, 60 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: and then the one outlier channel that always seemed to 61 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: have a World War two movie on playing opposite football 62 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: on Sundays. So during commercials. I got to go up 63 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: and watch what was on that opposite channel and watch 64 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: that war movie. And in one of them, they had 65 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: these guys coming up over the beach putting explosives on 66 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: obstacles in advance of a conventional force landing. And I 67 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: asked my dad who these guys were, and he said Frogman, 68 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: because that was the name of the movie. And I said, well, 69 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: what are the problem when these look off? These looks awesome? 70 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: And he said, go ask your mother. And my mom 71 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: was a librarian, so we grew up surrounded by books, 72 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: this love of reading, and went to do some research 73 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: at the local library found out what seals were. And 74 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: so from that age, from seven on, I knew that 75 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: I would one day make it into the seal teams, 76 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: or at least I try out. I test myself in 77 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: that crucible that was buds. When did you start doing 78 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: your own version of like the Rocky training montage when 79 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: he's in Russia and the snow you know it was? 80 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: Was fourteen year old? Was sixteen year old Jack Carr 81 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: doing doing push ups in like like freezing water somewhere? 82 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: I mean, how did you get ready for this? This 83 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: is true? So of course I was a big fan 84 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: of the Rocky movies, and so was my so was 85 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: my dad. So early on we were watching those movies 86 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: and I was sprinting up the hills by our house, 87 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: and I was trying to pull ups like early version 88 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: of CrossFit. Uh wait, you actually were inspired by the 89 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: Rocky movies. I love it, Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. We 90 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: had the little bar that we put up that would 91 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: always seem to you know, fall down when you're on 92 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: your like tenth or eleventh pull up as a little 93 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: kid in the hallway. So yeah, I was inspired by 94 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: those movies because you know, we all love we love 95 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: those movies because it's the underdog. It's the guy that 96 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 1: gets knocked down and gets up and keeps moving forward. 97 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: So it's we were all drawn to those which is 98 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: why they're so popular. So even before Rocky was training 99 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: in Siberia, uh you know, to fight, I even drive 100 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: the height of the Cold War, I was. I was 101 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: inspired by those films, running up and down the hills 102 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: and doing those things to prepare for what where I 103 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: was going, because I always knew that I was going 104 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: to the teams. And the two things that I found 105 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: out during that doing that research at the library was that, Hey, 106 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: these guys are some of the most elite special operations 107 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: forces in the world, and the training is some of 108 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: the toughest ever devised by a modern military. So I 109 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: was in and I was focused on it really for 110 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: my entire life. Now, is there anything that you once 111 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: you got in and people are more familiar now with 112 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: Buds than they would have been years ago, because of all, 113 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: there's a I think a Discovery Channel series, so you know, 114 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: we've seen your your brothers in uniform freezing their butts 115 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: off in the surf and all, you know, we would 116 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: people have some familiarity with those with those basics. And 117 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: also there have been a couple of movies that have 118 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: gone into and I don't know how sensationalized the training 119 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: was or how accurate it was. I can tell you 120 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: that the CIA training in movies is always basically crap, 121 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: But I think the BUDS training looks like it's more accurate, 122 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: more more true to life. So you you get in 123 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: and what's your you know, around what year do you 124 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: start and when you have your first combat deployment? Yep. 125 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: So I came in in ninety six, got to Buds 126 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: in January ninety seven and went through. Buddy got my 127 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: first Seal team in October ninety seven, so it's obviously 128 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: nine to eleven has not happened. And we think we're 129 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: all showing up at these seal teams and we're gonna 130 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: get the pagers and they're gonna give us all this 131 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: awesome gear and we're gonna don't be at somebody's wedding 132 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: or maybe at the bar, and the pager will go 133 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: off and then we'll Charlie Sheen style, you were gonna 134 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: you were gonna jump off a jeep off the bridge. 135 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: I remember, Yeah, a friend of mine actually did that. Yeah, 136 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: Adam Brown did that. Sadly he was killed, but yeah, 137 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: but he's not doing that. But an amazing guy but 138 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: called Fearless documents his life. But an amazing, amazing guy. 139 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: But yeah, we all thought that's what we were going 140 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: to do. And then we got to the first seal 141 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: teams and they handed us brooms, mops, say go paint 142 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: that wall, go clean that bathroom, do new guys stuff. 143 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: So in those days, our job was to be prepared 144 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: for war, so we joined our platoons. We went through 145 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: these eighteen month workup cycles where you're doing land warfare, 146 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: desert warfare, mountain warfare, jumping out of planes, diving, doing 147 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: your close quarter battle stuff, urban warfare, and you're training 148 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 1: with the guys you're gonna go down range with, so 149 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 1: that when you go down range, if the call comes, 150 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: you're the first guys to go in in that area 151 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 1: of the world. So the job was to prepare for war. 152 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: Of course, September eleventh happened. That was on my second deployment, 153 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: So I had one pre September eleventh deployment. Then second 154 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: one is one September eleventh happens, and we're in Guam. 155 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: Phone start ringing up and down the hallways. People start 156 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: knocking on doors, waking people up, and then we go 157 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 1: down to the basement where we had one team and 158 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: we watched the Twin Towers ball on television. And then 159 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,799 Speaker 1: it's been back and forth to the Middle East ever since. 160 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: And an interesting thing is that we all everybody that 161 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: wasn't deployed at the time, I thought they were going 162 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: to miss it. Guys that are stateside are like, oh man, 163 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm not deployed. I'm gonna miss it. 164 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: It's gonna be over by the time I get over there, 165 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: and here we are, almost twenty years later, still engaged 166 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: in both those regions of the world, so nobody was 167 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: in danger of missing it in hindsight. We are speaking 168 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: to Jack Carr. He's a former Navy seal and author 169 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: of Terminal List, True Believer. His latest is Savage Son, 170 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: and I've actually started reading it, so I'll have to 171 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: come and bring him back at some point when I 172 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: have my full my full review on it. I try 173 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: to read the books of people that come on the 174 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: show beforehand. But given the world falling apart right now, 175 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: it's been a pretty busy time Jack. But tell me 176 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: a bit about we're talking about your your deployments. You know, 177 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: I had the experience of being a CIA analyst. So 178 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: one of those little civilian guys dressed like I'm on 179 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: a camping trip, walking around trying to help you and 180 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: your guys actually go to war fighting. I was like pointing, 181 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: you know, the bad guys are over there. Get them. 182 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: Where where was you were you Arack afghan I'm assuming 183 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: you was got send to Afghanistan first, But where where'd 184 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: you go? Yeah? Yeah, So I spend time in Afghanistan 185 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: and Iraq. Most of my time was in Iraq. But 186 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, the second novel, True Believer, is really based 187 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: off something that had happened to me in Iraq in 188 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: two thousand and six when I was working for your 189 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: former organization, and it was one of the highlights of 190 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: my time and uniform being the only military person attacked 191 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: to this covert action program that they had going on 192 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: over there at the time with primarily indigenous forces. And 193 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: we had one guy that was an Iraqi who was 194 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: just heading shoulders above his peers when it came to 195 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: battlefield leadership, when it came to the close target reconnaissance, 196 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: when it came to planning, when it came to having 197 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: to flex out there when the bullet started flying. Because 198 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: typically what at least my experience was that a lot 199 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 1: of times they were hesitant to make decisions because coming 200 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: from a place where you're a subject, not a citizen, 201 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: if you took initiative on the battlefield and it met 202 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: and you messed up, it was kind of like off 203 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: with your head type thing. They didn't encourage you to 204 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: learn from your mistakes in a lot of the players 205 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: of the world where we went, so at this guy, 206 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: he took he took risks on the battlefield. He adapted 207 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: quickly on the battlefield, and then years down the line, 208 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: I got word that he disappeared, and I thought, oh, 209 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: I want if I fictionalize this and turned this into 210 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: a novel here, So that was the basis for True Believer. 211 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: So you might like that, and you might remember some 212 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: of those days back there in Iraq in two thousand 213 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: and six running again and right around the time of 214 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: the Golden Mosque bombing. Yeah, so yeah, I saw it. 215 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: At the beginning of Savage Sun, you had what I've 216 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: seen in many of my former peers and friends, both 217 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: either on the intel agency side or on the military side, 218 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: or a combination thereof. This was reviewed and just FYI, 219 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: these reviews are ridiculous. So I was like, yep, he 220 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: went through the review process, because pretty sure if you 221 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: talk about James Bonds exploding cuff links, they'll find something 222 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: in there to they'll find something in there to block out. 223 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: I've I've been through that process myself. Ridiculous. I mean, 224 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: it's fiction. They get very liberal with those black sharpie pens. 225 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: Government supply, tax payers supply, of course. And on the 226 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: second one, True Believer I appealed so they took out 227 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: fifty four sections of the novel, which are blacked out 228 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: in the hardback. Then I appealed during the time between 229 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: the hardback came out and the paperback came out, and 230 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: I won thirty seven of them. One I should have 231 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: won all of them because my lawyers attached every single 232 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: redaction to a publicly available government document, so not just 233 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: on Wikipedia or somebody else's book, but you can actually 234 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: just get it from the government. And they tied them 235 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: all to those, but still won thirty seven or the 236 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: fifty four. So when the paperback came out, I unredacted 237 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: what was in what we won on appeal, and one 238 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: of those was a country. They took out every single 239 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: reference to Morocco. And in my story, the hero goes 240 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: from Mozambique and he has to go somewhere to do 241 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 1: some training, and so he goes. I made up a 242 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: CIA black suite in Morocco. Just made it up. I've 243 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: never been to Morocco in uniform. I went before I 244 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: joined the military, and I loved it. I could describe 245 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: the marketplace, I could describe the mountains, and I just 246 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: love the country. So I put it in there, and 247 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: they blacked out everything that said Morocco, anything that said 248 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: Atlas Mountains. They took out Moorish architecture, UM and a 249 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: made up airbase that does not even exist. They blacked out, 250 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: but I ended up winning those on appeal, and so 251 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: those are unredacted. I mean, if you give away the 252 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: secrets of fifteenth century North African architecture, my friend, I don't. 253 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: I don't even know he could show your face in 254 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: any military bars anymore. It's crazy. And the summer days business. 255 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: I've seen this stuff that they've you know, my favorite 256 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: is when they start blacking out. You know, they'll blackout, 257 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: like the weapon that somebody was carrying. That's that's the 258 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: equivalent of like he had a blank and then and 259 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: then it will say later on he fired his AK 260 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: forty seven. It's like, I don't think he was carrying 261 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: two rifles. But I'm glad you guys got that the 262 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: first time. Um. But anyway, this is some insider stuff. 263 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to get too deep into ITAs. 264 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: I know I wanted to ask him, and you mentioned 265 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: an incident when you were in Iraq and something that 266 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: was the impetus for further thought processes. I mean you 267 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: were in the midst of particularly nasty ambush. What was 268 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: it in Baghdad? Yep, yep, in the neighborhood, was it anyway? Yeah, 269 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: in Baghdad and uh we were in the ambush because 270 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks earlier, even though this was technically 271 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: a sovereign Iraqi unit, because it was a sovereign country 272 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 1: obviously at the time, because we had Americans attached, particularly me, 273 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: because I was the only person really in the military 274 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: that other people were from your organization. We went into 275 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 1: a mosque, not me, but the sovereign Iraqi unit went 276 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: in there because a bad guy was in there, like 277 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: they tend to do, because they know that we're hesitant 278 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: to hit them if they're in places of worship or 279 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: hospitals or things like that. So they went in there 280 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: and grabbed this guy a couple weeks earlier, and it 281 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: caused a firestorm, of course, and so we attracked another 282 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: guy to a similar location at night through some technical means, 283 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: and so we parked outside. We just stopped walk away 284 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: and we had to wait and we had to go down. 285 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: I'm on the radio and I'm trying to get the 286 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: approvals from the military side of the house and then 287 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: have the agency side talk to the military side and go. 288 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: So forty five minutes we're out there, maybe even an 289 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: hour we're just sitting there. Meanwhile they're maneuvering on us, 290 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,559 Speaker 1: they're getting elevated positions on us, and then they all 291 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: open up at one time, of course, but also what 292 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: we've done is send our snipers up elevated positions at 293 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: the same time. So it turned into this pretty crazy 294 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: ambush that did not have to happen. We could have 295 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: just rolled up, gone right in, grab this guy been 296 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: out of there, But because we had to wait and 297 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 1: sit there and wait for senior level leadership to then 298 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: approve it, which they well, they didn't get a chance 299 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: to do because the ambush happened forty five minutes in 300 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: we always we took a couple of casualties, but nobody died. 301 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: One of one of your guys took around a holiday 302 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: in the hip, although they took it, took a round 303 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 1: in the best place you'd probably dig around, right in 304 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: the butt. And then one of our indigenous forces got 305 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: wounded as well, but everybody survived and they weren't more 306 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: serious injuries. But our snipe being elevated and then me 307 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: being able to jump out and go coordinate with a 308 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: qr F, a quick reaction force a few blocks away. 309 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: That while we were waiting, I had them move closer 310 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: just in case to be so we could fall back 311 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: and they could be laying out some fire with Bradley's 312 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: and everything else that they had. So it was an 313 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: interesting night, very interesting night which feel very exposed out 314 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: there while you're waiting for these senior level leaders to 315 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: make their decisions from their comfortable tactical operation centers. Yeah, 316 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I remember when I was in Baghdad and 317 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: the cappuccino machine broke down and it was a really 318 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: people did not move fast enough for my liking my friends, 319 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: So we had very different we had very different experiences 320 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: of the war zone. But guys, we're talking to Jack Carr, 321 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: author and former Navy seal, and he has a book out, 322 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: Savage Son. You can get it on Amazon's Great Time 323 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: and start reading a new line of thrillers. Although, Jack, 324 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: do you prefer that people begin with the terminal list 325 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: or do you want them to go with the latest 326 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: offer you Do they have to go sequential with your 327 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: novels or can they just hop in wherever they want. Well, 328 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: what I'm supposed to say is that you can hop 329 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: in wherever you want because you're selling the first this 330 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: latest book, of course, But to be invested in the 331 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: characters to understand the story in the background, it does 332 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: help to start with the Terminal List and then move 333 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: on to True Believer and then Savage Son. But Savage 334 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: Son is the one I wanted to write first, and 335 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: when I started this because always knew I was gonna 336 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: write as I was leaving the military. I knew it 337 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: from an early age, but I knew the military had 338 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: to come first, obviously just because age requirements. But in 339 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: back in the eighties and nineties, a lot of the 340 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: information that I got about seals and about special operations, 341 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: about intelligence services came from the pages of fictional thrillers 342 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: by guys like Tom Clancy, Nelson de Mille, David morrell, A, 343 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: Jake Winnelle, Jac Pollock, Mark Old and all these guys 344 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: whose protagonists typically had Vietnam experience, either with the CIA 345 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: or Special Forces, or a couple of them in seal teams. 346 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: So I love those books. Growing up. I had such 347 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: a great experience reading them that I knew one day 348 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: I'd write books like that. So as I started, I 349 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: wrote down six or seven different ideas on the table, 350 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: and I knew that I had to start with the 351 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: terminals because the characters weren't developed enough to explore what 352 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: I explore in this third one, which is really the 353 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: dark side of man through the hunter Hunted dynamic. So 354 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: I had to hit come out of a gate, swinging 355 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: hard with the terminal lists, very visceral, very primal, a 356 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: story of revenge without constraint, because I wanted to introduce 357 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: characters or readers to a new character, and I wanted 358 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: New York Publishing to take notice, and I wanted it 359 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: to be a little different, maybe than some of the 360 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: other offerings that were out there. And then for the 361 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: second one, I knew he had to continue on its journey. 362 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: It's a story of redemption, and I call it a 363 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: story of violent redemption, So I had to continue that 364 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: journey to finally get to a place where I could 365 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: explore the themes of Savage Son. So this is the 366 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: one I've went into write since sixth grade, when I 367 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: first read Most Dangerous Game, a short story by Richard 368 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: Connell written in nineteen twenty four. And this is the 369 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: novel that pays tribute to that short story. So before 370 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: I get into your your process and the transition, which 371 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about from from going. You 372 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: know a lot of people do autobiographical that come out 373 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: of either elite special operations particularly or if people really 374 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: like tales of winding through the bureaucracy, they can read about, 375 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, the life and times of a DA or 376 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: Cia or NSA or whatever. But I want to know 377 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: who was the author if there was one for you 378 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: that was the first the first person you remember reading 379 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: that you chose that you were like, I want to 380 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: read books. You know that this is something that's exciting 381 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: to you. Well, I was already on that path because 382 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: my mom was a librarian and we were just oh no, 383 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: I don't mean as an adult, I mean as a kid. Yeah, 384 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: well I talked about as a kid. Yeah, as a kid. 385 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: So about fifth grade I started reading the same kind 386 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: of novels my parents were reading. So it was David 387 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: Morrell's The Brotherhood of the Rose, which he wrote in 388 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: the eighties and its at trilogy, next One's Fraternity of 389 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: the Stone, and then League of Night and Fog and 390 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: David Morrell, of course created the character Rambo back in 391 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two with First Blood, but Brotherhood of the 392 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: Rose was he really moved the genre forward. And then 393 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: he took the best elements of UK so British spy 394 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: fiction and then American spy fiction, so thank Ludlum and 395 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: Think the Kay and putting them together into a new 396 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: type of format to move forward. So it was just 397 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: fantastic read. And there's one sentence in there mentioned seals 398 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: too protagonists or Army Special Forces Green Rays, but there's 399 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 1: one sentence that mentioned seals, and I was already on 400 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: that path, but that kind of cemented it for me. 401 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: I was like, Hey, if the guy that created Rambo 402 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: is saying this about seals, I'm on the right path. 403 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: And then I had such a great experience reading that book. 404 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: I knew that one day, after my time in the Teams, 405 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: I would write fiction just like David Morrell's writing. So 406 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: it's Brotherhood of the Rose. And what was it like 407 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: when you when you started that process, Because I've no look, 408 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: I've I've thought about writing a novel many times in life, 409 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: and some things you think you jump to and you 410 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: start and it's one of those. It's a little bit 411 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: like people who describe, you know, soccer at the highest 412 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: level is a very it's a very easy game, made 413 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: enormously complicated and difficult by the people that are doing 414 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: it right. Writing sounds like, I mean people can write. 415 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: To write a novel that anybody actually wants to read 416 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: is one of the most enormously challenging intellectual exercises anybody 417 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: can go through. In that transition, when you come out 418 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: and you're just about to people say, put pen to paper, right, 419 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: But obviously you're typing it out. I'm assuming unless you're 420 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: really old school. Yeah, as you're typing it out, are 421 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: you a did you just get into it and start 422 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: just putting ideas down? Are you a structure guy? I mean, 423 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: I feel like there are a lot of people out there. 424 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: I get people write in and they say, you know, 425 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: I want to write a book or I want to 426 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: write a novel, And I'm someone who actually has only 427 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: done the e books. I haven't even written a formal 428 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: book yet. How do you get to that phase one 429 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: if somebody wants to do how did you get to 430 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: phase one? Yeah? Well, first off, I didn't worry about 431 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: all those things that you just mentioned. I didn't worry 432 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: about how hard it is to write a novel, how 433 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: hard it is to get published by a New York 434 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: publishing house, how hard it is to even get an 435 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: agent to look at your stuff. I didn't worry about 436 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: any of that, because, just like with buds, worrying about 437 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 1: how hard it is making it through, that's wasted bandwidth. 438 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: So I focus all my energy and effort into the product, 439 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: into writing the best novel I possibly could. And all 440 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: those people I mentioned that I read growing up, those 441 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: were really my professors in the art of storytelling. That 442 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: along with Joseph Campbell, who wrote Here with a Thousand Phaces. 443 00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: My mom introduced me to him in nineteen eighty eight. 444 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 1: He did a series of interviews with Bill Moyers on 445 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: PBS about the hero's journey, and so then I just 446 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: subconsciously applied that to everything I've read or anything I've 447 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: seen on the screen ever since. And what he did 448 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: was study different cultures and found that there were these 449 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: similarities in their mythologies, so their monoliths were very, very similar, 450 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: and that a reluctant hero would go on a journey, 451 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 1: he'd beat a mentor at some point along the way, 452 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: who gave him knowledge or a tool to help him 453 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: complete his task. He'd be tested in some sort of 454 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: a crucible, and then he'd emerged transformed and usually bring 455 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: those lessons back from whence he came. So that's kind 456 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: of the breakdown of what most mythologies across different cultures, 457 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 1: who had never met each other, followed. So there's something 458 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: about that journey that resonates with us. So that's always 459 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: been at the forefront of my mind. So all those 460 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: people I'd read grown up, they were my professors. I 461 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: knew what I liked, I knew what I didn't like, 462 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: and then as I got a little older, I discovered 463 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: Stephen Hunter, Daniel Silva, brat thor Or, Vince Flynn, now 464 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: Mark Grainey. So it's been a part of my life forever. 465 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: So I sat down, wrote those six or seven different 466 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: one page executive summaries out and then I decided terminalist 467 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: just first, that's the one. I took that executive summary 468 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: and started outlining, and I would the important part of 469 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: the outline for me anyway, was it if I came 470 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: to a point where I got stuck, where I was like, ah, 471 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: is this going to resonate with readers. Is this they're 472 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: going to believe this? How am I going to solve 473 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: this problem? I just went around it or through it. 474 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: I did not stay then anytime worried about if I 475 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: was going to be able to figure out, because I 476 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: knew over the next year, at some point I was 477 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 1: going to figure this out. And the battle feels all 478 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: about aggressive problem solving, about adapting, about identifying emerging opportunities, 479 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: capitalizing on momentum will All those same things apply to 480 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: solving problems on the written page. But you have time, 481 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: you can sleep on it. It's okay, and if you 482 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: mess it up, no one's coming home in a body bag. 483 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: So I've got the outline as good as I could, 484 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: and then I started writing. And as I wrote, and 485 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: I solved those problems, then I would go back to 486 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:49,959 Speaker 1: the outline and i'd write them in so I had 487 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: a visual representation of what I was doing and I 488 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: could just visually see, Okay, this this part might be 489 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: a little litle more, this might a little less. And 490 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 1: then just went through the process, got it as as 491 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: I could, and then I started. Then I handed it 492 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 1: out to about ten fifteen different trusted agents who also 493 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: read in the genre. I knew there were fans of 494 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: the genre, so handed it to them, got that feedback, 495 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: and if one person mentioned something they didn't like, then 496 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: I discounted it. But if like four people did, then 497 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: I took another look at it and said, okay, I 498 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: might need to take a look at this little part 499 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: right here. And I got it as good as I could, 500 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,439 Speaker 1: and then send it off to Simon and Schuster. Have 501 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: you have you ever had any any of your former 502 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: colleagues who you asked early on, say you know a 503 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: whole lot of second buddy, you know that that suppressor 504 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: doesn't work on the if people come at you with 505 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: I mean, because there must be this expectation because of 506 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: your background, that the expertise is effectively absolute. But any 507 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: novelist is going to do even beyond their own experience, 508 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: their own expertise, research and looking done. Of the things 509 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering is that, I mean, you're clearly bringing 510 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: a lot of your background into what you're writing. Have 511 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: you ever extended yourself into some areas where you found 512 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: one it was particularly fascinating? But also do you ever 513 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: find yourself saying, oh, yeah, there's still I still have 514 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: things to learn. I'm still a student about these things 515 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: as well. Oh yeah, there's a couple acronyms that for 516 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: the last twenty years and the Seal Teams I thought 517 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: meant one thing, but actually meant another when I went 518 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: back to check. So I'm very cognizant of the fact 519 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: that people are going to, particularly on the technical aspects 520 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: of weapons and explosives and that sort of thing, are 521 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: going to going to go through and say and look 522 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: and try to find mistakes. So if there's something I'm 523 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: not quite sure about it, then of course I have 524 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: a whole host of people and from the Seal Teams, 525 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: from Army, special Forces, from Delta, whatever, that I can 526 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: reach out to and ask these questions specifically about explosives, 527 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: specifically about id s, specifically about weapons systems, sniper weapons systems, 528 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: that sort of thing, to make sure I get it right. 529 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: And there's bound to be a mistake at some point. 530 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 1: But up to now it's been it's been pretty good. 531 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: But what really sets these apartment, what I think made 532 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: Simon and Schuster take notice, is that it's, yes, it's 533 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: a one hundred percent fictional political thriller, but the feelings 534 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: and emotions that the protagonist feels are things that I 535 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: felt at some point along the way. So I took 536 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: those emotions and feelings from Iraq and Afghanistan, from certain 537 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: events and then ide them to a completely fictional narrative. 538 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: So if the person reading it, if it feels to 539 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: them like the protagonist is that what he's feeling is 540 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: really authentic, it's because those come from a real place. 541 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: So I think that's what differentiated it, made it time 542 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: to shoose or take notice, and then made Hollywood take notice. 543 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: They're supposed to start filming a series here, so we're 544 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: going to get to the Hollywood side. Don't or that 545 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: that's coming up in a second, of course, So start 546 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: asking about your favorite your favorite special operations and movies. 547 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: But but I did want to ask you before that, 548 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: because because this I think is important for people to hear, 549 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: and I'm certainly curious as well. You know, you sign 550 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: up to serve your country in the seals. There's a 551 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: mindset there and a lot of people from from my 552 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: generation or military side, and to some extent on the 553 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: intel side or State Department or wherever, there's a sense 554 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: of you want to serve. You understand there's some risk. 555 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: You have a certain mindset when you go in, and 556 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 1: obviously then there's an enormously steep learning curve about a 557 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: whole host of things once you're actually in that role 558 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: of service, whether it's military or non military. On your side, 559 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: as somebody who was going into going into into training 560 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,959 Speaker 1: and then deployed for combat, how did your mindset evolve 561 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: as a warrior? What were you what was it like 562 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: when you were starting, and then what were some of 563 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: the inflection points, the areas of greatest growth or change 564 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: within your mindset? And then when you prepared to leave. 565 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, that's probably this could be a three 566 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,719 Speaker 1: hour conversation on its own, but I figured as a novelist, 567 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: you could probably give me the you know, the condensed version. Yeah. No, 568 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: absolutely so. Up until September eleventh, even before I joined 569 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: the military, I was all not just reading fiction, but 570 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: I was reading nonfiction. I was trying to make myself 571 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: the best possible warrior I could. So I'm studying terrorism, 572 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: I'm studying insurgencies, I'm studying counter insurgencies, I'm studying warfare. 573 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: I'm doing everything I possibly can to increase my chances 574 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: of getting into the seal teams and then being the 575 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: best operator I possibly could. So up until September eleventh, 576 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 1: it's prepared for war, prepared for war. I'm continuing to 577 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: study on my own, not just what the military is 578 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: teaching me, because professional development it's a blot better now, 579 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: but back then it was pretty much baptism by fire. 580 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: So September eleventh happened. And then of course we all 581 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: are learning, We're all adapting. If you don't, you're essentially dead. 582 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: So you have to continue that learning. The enemy is 583 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: learning from you. They're adapting most of the times faster 584 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: than you are on the battlefield because they don't have 585 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: a big bureaucracy to deal with. And then the most 586 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: important part is applying those lessons going forward, and then 587 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: if you mess up, sharing those failures not just with 588 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: your team but military more broadly, so that other people 589 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: don't have to learn those lessons in blood. So a 590 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: lot of that was a lot of the learning was 591 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: about how you disseminate that information first, being honest about it, 592 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: coming back, doing that hotwash, doing that after action report, 593 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: and getting that out there so it can then be 594 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: incorporated into training state side, so the next people to 595 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: come over aren't just getting a quick high five and 596 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: you're telling them a couple of things that you learned, 597 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: and then they're they're in the mix. But incorporating that 598 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: into training, making it part of doctrine and moving forward, 599 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: but making it so you can adapt quickly and evolve, 600 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,479 Speaker 1: because the enemy is certainly doing that for you. Some 601 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: of the hardest parts are when you come back to 602 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: a Baghdad, let's say, a couple of years later, and 603 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: you're like, Wow, this is even worse than it was 604 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: in two thousand and four. What are we doing? How 605 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: why are we making this situation even worse? And that's 606 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: tough because you well, E one maybe in the other, 607 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: but for us, it's like the E five, the E six. 608 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: They're asking those questions, they're seeing it, and you have 609 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 1: to address it as a leader, but in a way 610 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: that is appropriate and positive and constructive so that you 611 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: can still focus on the mission at hand, because it's 612 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: always about the mission. Taking care of those guys, that's 613 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: what you owe them, that's what you owe their families, 614 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: that's what you owe the country. So it's it's all 615 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: about constant learning and being a learning organization. All right. Now, 616 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: let's talk about the Hollywood side. So you got your Netflix, 617 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: who's making it, what's going on? Bring us up to speed, 618 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: sworn to secrecy, sworn to secrecy on that side. But 619 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: it looks like at this point it's like an eight 620 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: to ten part series. I think I can say that. 621 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: And what's crazy is as I was writing the first novel, 622 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: so I started writing that last year in the military, 623 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: and for those who have been in the military, you 624 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: know that when you drop papers, you go into a 625 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: different pile all of us, and you're just like, Okay, 626 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: go to Dan, I'll go to medical, we'll go get 627 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 1: right out of these different security things and you have 628 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: some time. So that's when I started writing the first novel. 629 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: And as I wrote, I thought of one person in 630 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: particular playing the main character, and I didn't. It was 631 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: weird because after that point he'd been in Parks and 632 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: rec he had a very small part in Zero Dark thirty, 633 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: and I just thought of Chris Pratt because I wondered 634 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: someone that was likable. My character had to be likable. 635 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: I wanted somebody that you'd want to sit down and 636 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: have a beer with, but they could flip that switch 637 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: and had the experience and the training and the drive 638 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: and the knowledge to go and just crush. So I thought, 639 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: who's that person who has done like some funny stuff 640 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: up until now, who's likable, But he's on this trajectory 641 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: as an actor that needs to do something darker, needs 642 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: to do something, grittier, wants to push himself a little bit. 643 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: And I thought Chris Pratt. And I had no connection 644 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: to him at the time. And then right before my 645 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: first book came out of Buddy Calls and I didn't 646 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: talked to him in years, and he said, hey, just 647 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: wanted to touch base and thank me for helping him 648 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: as he left the Seal teams. And I was like, absolutely, 649 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: no problem. And he said, oh, I was wanting to 650 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: call him thank you. And I heard you wrote a 651 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: book and can I Can I check it out? And 652 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, no problem, I'll send you a GALLI 653 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: copy it comes out in a few months. And he said, well, 654 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: I'd like to give it to a friend of mine too, 655 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: and I said, yeah, no problem. Who's that and he 656 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: said Chris Pratt. So Chris got it. Chris loved it, 657 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: and next thing you know, he options it. And also 658 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: I thought one person directing it as I was writing it, 659 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: and that's Anton Fuqua and he's directing it. So it's 660 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: just crazy how things wompul sir, I am familiar. I'm 661 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: familiar with both of those individuals, as you've mentioned, and 662 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: I think they're both do excellent work. And I'm just 663 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: happy because somebody has to make up for the atrocity 664 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: that was Jack Ryan on Amazon season two. Not good, 665 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: not good. That's now, that's like, step into my world. 666 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: That guy's a CIA analyst. If you take the chick 667 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: from the bar up to your room and you have 668 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: classified out on your desk, you I mean, seriously, I 669 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: think security would just drop you the middle of the 670 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: ocean somewhere. I was like, this isn't come on. So 671 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: I'm glad you guys. You guys will get it right. 672 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: I mean, this did Jack Ryan. I thought the first 673 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: season was okay on Amazon. It was pretty good for 674 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: what it was, that had some good stuff. Season two 675 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,479 Speaker 1: I couldn't even get through it, and I'm like, this 676 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: is Tom Clansy. You guys are taking Tom Clancy and 677 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: you're just you're mutilating the brilliance of Tom Clancy. It 678 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: was so sad. It made me so sad. I know, 679 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: I know, the first season, we really enjoyed it, and 680 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: then the second one and so well, the second one 681 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: was while we were watching it anyway, I think it 682 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: came out a little earlier, but while we were watching it, 683 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: I was also helping with the pilot script for the series. 684 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,239 Speaker 1: And the pilot script it's amazing. I'm so fired up 685 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: about the script. It's incredible. But I kept taking pictures 686 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: of the screen of Jack Ryan season two and sending 687 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: it to the showrunner. So he's the guy that kind 688 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: of is really the screenwriter. It really is taking care 689 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: of all these things, and I take pictures and be like, Okay, 690 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: this is not this is an example of what we're 691 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: not going to do. And I'd send it to him 692 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: and he'd be like, Okay, I got it, I got it. 693 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, it was. It was kind of disappointing to 694 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: see how they did that with the season two and 695 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: Jack Ryan. Well, I'm excited to see whatever. And I 696 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: don't know sworre secrecy on the platform, but whenever it 697 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: comes out, can you tell us when do you expect 698 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: it out? Though? Who knows? Was with COVID nineteen everything 699 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,239 Speaker 1: Else's project and send everything getting bumped? Who knows, but 700 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: I would think twenty twenty one. But I but once again, 701 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: I'm just happy to be here. I don't ask too 702 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: many of those cap of questions. I'm just happy to 703 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: be here. Yeah. Well, one of the nice things of 704 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: being a novel is they option your stuff. They pay 705 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: it for the options. So that's that's a good that's 706 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: good news. A few before we let you get back 707 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: to the fourth book, which I'm sure you're already thinking 708 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: about now. Greatest depiction of special operations in a theatrical 709 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: release in a film for you that you've ever seen, 710 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: your your your favorite, I should say, not not great, 711 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: it's your favorite special operations depiction in a movie would 712 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: be one. Well, there's a couple of different ways to 713 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: answer that one, but I'll go with the first way 714 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: you asked it. Usually I try to enjoy them. I 715 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: don't try to pick them apart and say oh, okay, no, 716 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: would never do that. I try it to make it 717 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: miserable for those around me who are trying to enjoy 718 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: the movie as well. So the only one in recent 719 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: memory that made me actually want to go back in 720 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: for a split second was Thirteen Hours. I mean, I 721 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: knew a couple of the guys that that died there um, 722 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: and I thought they need a really good job with 723 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: thirteen hours. Through my experience from the from the military 724 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: side of the house, just that the feel of it 725 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: um for me seemed about as authentic. And that guy Kazinsky, 726 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: I gotta say, isn't that his last name? What's Yeah, yeah, 727 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: Kris Krizinski, not Kasinski Krazinski. He kicked ass. I was surprised. Yeah, 728 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: he did a really good job. And you know, I 729 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: know a lot of mean I knew a lot of 730 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: those GRS guys, uh, you know, very well, and I 731 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, they actually it's and I know Tanto 732 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: from from real life too, so it was funny to 733 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: see the the theatrical depiction of him was also so 734 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: I would agree that that movie, I feel like got it, 735 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: you know, got a really solid I do have a 736 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: slight objection too, I'm just gonna say it, the little 737 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: CIA guys in that movie. First of all, there's like 738 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: a girl with a British accent and a guy with 739 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: a French accent, and they're total jackasses who should get 740 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: wedgies right or well, like the guys like that's not 741 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: to my job, Like, I'm like, why is he talking 742 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: like that. He's an American ACE officer trying to international player. 743 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: They're trying to hit some other markets, you know, the parents, 744 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: other things that come into play. I was like, the 745 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: CIA civilians did not exactly get a get a great showing. 746 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: And I've talked to so many of my friends in 747 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: the agency about this. We all agree. We're eld sitting 748 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: about like, oh no, zi, men with the guns are coming, 749 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: like I will now write the memo and I'm like, okay, 750 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: Like we're not all like that bad like some of them. 751 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: Some of those guys are for military too. Geez. Anyway, No, 752 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: that's like I really liked that movie. I tell everybody 753 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: to check it out. Um, greatest for you, greatest warm 754 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: movie of all time. Oh you know, I love The 755 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: Great Escape. I have great memories of that one as 756 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: a kid. Um yeah, of course with Steve McQueen, and 757 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: so I love those older ones like that that I 758 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: grew up watching with my dad, and then as we 759 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: moved into the eighties, of course I loved Uncommon Valor 760 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: total eighties action film. But it's uh, it was, It's 761 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: not They don't say it's based on the book by 762 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: a guy named jac Pollock called Mission m I a 763 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: about some guys that go back to Vietnam to get 764 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: their buddies out. But it really is if you read 765 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: the book and watch the movie it is Gene Hackman's 766 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: in it. It's but you gotta watch these things through 767 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: the lens kind of like if I recommend a book 768 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,959 Speaker 1: to somebody that was written in the seventies of the eighties, 769 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: I have to say, make sure you read this through 770 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: the prism of the time in which it was written. 771 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: Don't look at just through the lens and filter of today. 772 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: Try to enjoy it for being written in nineteen seventy 773 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: two or being written in nineteen eighty three or nineteen 774 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: eighty seven or whatever is. Remember what was going on 775 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: in the world, remember the language, remember the technology, and 776 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: enjoy it for what it is. So yeah, I loved 777 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: Common Ball, or I even loved The Delta Force. The 778 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: first half of The Delta Force with Chuck Norris is 779 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: actually based on real world events TWA hijacking, the way 780 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: that the terrorists got onto the plane, the way they 781 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,399 Speaker 1: got through security. Like the first half of that movie 782 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: is is I'm just gonna be waiting around until the 783 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: photo of you in a cutoff jean jacket with no 784 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: shirt underneath it and double micro double micro uzies. You 785 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: have to have the double Micro USA. That's a different one, 786 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: that's Invasion USA. But the Delta Force came out earlier, 787 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: and yeah, I mean it was good. They tad the 788 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: way that the terrorists took the passports of the Jewish 789 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: people and brought them out to the front, the Israeli passports, 790 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: brought them up and had he killed a Navy diver 791 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 1: get his Navy ID card. They shot him, dropped him 792 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: on the tarmac like those things actually happened as part 793 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 1: of that hijacking, and then of course it goes Hollywood 794 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: after that. But yeah, I love all those movies. And 795 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: if you get you get one firearm and one tool 796 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 1: to start out with when the zombie apocalypse hits. Yeah, 797 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: so I got to grab my m for just because 798 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: I have many to choose from over there in that safe. 799 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's gonna be an MP with an eight 800 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: point with a magnifier on it, just because I'm so 801 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: familiar with it and that was the go to for 802 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: so many years going down range and had so much 803 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: time training on it. So that's what I'm grabbing alrighty 804 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: Jack Carr, everybody check out the book Savage Son also 805 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: once you've read that one terminalist, true believer, and Jack, 806 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: thank you for your service, thank you for your time, 807 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: and the freedom Hunt welcomes you back. Whenever you want 808 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: anything you need from us, you can count it, all right. 809 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and take care and be safe 810 00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:58,439 Speaker 1: out there in New York