Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: ramses Jah, and to say that today's episode is a
Speaker 1: special episode would be an understatement. Not only is it
Speaker 1: a special episode, it is a very important episode, very
Speaker 1: significant episode, And the reason for that is because we
Speaker 1: are very much as a community steal in the process
Speaker 1: of healing. And my guests today are one woman who
Speaker 1: specializes in working with mothers, Black mothers who have experienced
Speaker 1: traumas and are in the process of healing. And another
Speaker 1: or the other guests that I have today is a
Speaker 1: mother herself who has endured what I can only guess
Speaker 1: is the worst pain imaginable and is very much healing.
Speaker 1: My guests today are Janelle Wood from The Black Mother's
Speaker 1: Lam and Irma Johnson, the mother of Dion Johnson. Now,
Speaker 1: for those of you who don't know, or otherwise have
Speaker 1: not been out on the streets, or maybe you've been
Speaker 1: living under a rock, who knows. Dion Johnson is a
Speaker 1: young man whose life was taken from him at the
Speaker 1: hands of the Arizona Department of Public Safety, which in
Speaker 1: and of itself is sort of an oxymoron. But he
Speaker 1: was found sleeping in his car on the side of
Speaker 1: the freeway and was subsequently killed. Obviously, I'm gonna let
Speaker 1: the right folks tell the story, but that resulted in
Speaker 1: tremendous outcry from the streets. I myself took to the streets.
Speaker 1: Thousands of people took to the streets and demanded justice,
Speaker 1: demanded an explanation. I saw people weep because that pain
Speaker 1: was not just felt by Irma Johnson and her family.
Speaker 1: That pain is a reminder of the trauma that lots
Speaker 1: of black and brown folks feel on a regular basis.
Speaker 1: And that trauma and that narrative that we keep getting
Speaker 1: sold is very harmful and very dangerous if we don't
Speaker 1: talk about it and deal with it. But in any event,
Speaker 1: folks took to the streets. I saw his name written everywhere.
Speaker 1: There's been murals, etc. Et cetera tremendous show of support
Speaker 1: from the community with this young man who lost his life,
Speaker 1: And of course there's a demand for justice, and I
Speaker 1: think it's important and the reason why this show exists
Speaker 1: is to give women like this a stage to share
Speaker 1: what is happening in their lives and what has happened
Speaker 1: in the past, and what direction we're gonna move forward.
Speaker 1: So first, I'm gonna welcome Irma Johnson to the show.
Speaker 1: Oh hey, so the I guess the first question is
Speaker 1: what is it like to have so much support from
Speaker 1: the people.
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate all the support and love that I
Speaker 2: get from this community. It's it's hard feeling, and I
Speaker 2: just I love it. I didn't think that I would
Speaker 2: be in a spotlight like this, but I appreciate it,
Speaker 2: and it feels good to knowing that everybody that's participating,
Speaker 2: you know, they they spend their time to come out
Speaker 2: and show the love and support, and I truly appreciate
Speaker 2: it and it feels good.
Speaker 1: As I said, you know, it's it's a horrible, unimaginable
Speaker 1: thing to have to endure. But I did hear that
Speaker 1: the funeral for your son was well attended. There was
Speaker 1: a lot of love there. A lot of folks showed support,
Speaker 1: so not just in the streets and protests, but actually,
Speaker 1: you know, when it came time for there to be
Speaker 1: you know, some togetherness and some family and some remembrance,
Speaker 1: a lot of folks came and many folks who didn't
Speaker 1: know Dion personally showed up just to show support. I'm
Speaker 1: one of those people, as I mentioned earlier. I believe
Speaker 1: I was. I know, I know I was the last
Speaker 1: person to put flowers on his cascade before he was
Speaker 1: lowered into the or where he was finally buried. I
Speaker 1: went with my son just to go the funeral. So
Speaker 1: what comes after that is, you know, healing and moving forward.
Speaker 1: And I recognize that that's got to be very difficult
Speaker 1: to do when there are so many unanswered questions and
Speaker 1: so many people who are unwilling to cooperate. What was
Speaker 1: your reaction when you found out that there was no
Speaker 1: body cam footage, no dash cam footage, and that the
Speaker 1: DPS was not willing to release the video outside of
Speaker 1: the edited version of the video that didn't show the
Speaker 1: alleged altercation. How did that make you feel?
Speaker 2: His belief I couldn't. I couldn't believe that they had
Speaker 2: nothing but the end of it. They had actually put
Speaker 2: him on the ground and he was laying there in pain,
Speaker 2: and I just didn't have any understanding. Okay, they caught
Speaker 2: the end of it, but I know for a fact
Speaker 2: they caught the whole the whold incident. Sure, but they're
Speaker 2: telling us that they only got the last of it
Speaker 2: where they see him laying on the ground after he's
Speaker 2: already shot.
Speaker 1: I noticed there was a part in the video and
Speaker 1: it just kind of stuck with me where the officer
Speaker 1: actually sort of stuck his boot out and kicked him
Speaker 1: back to the ground when he was trying to kind
Speaker 1: of right himself. And I'm very sorry because I know
Speaker 1: you have to relive this on your own. So I'm
Speaker 1: sorry that you're, you know, having to relive this. But
Speaker 1: I think that it's such a display of strength that
Speaker 1: you would come out and share this story with all
Speaker 1: of us who have Obviously we can't we can't feel
Speaker 1: as strongly as you do. But I think that by
Speaker 1: sharing it helps all of us heal and we can
Speaker 1: heal with you, so that that does mean a lot.
Speaker 1: But I do want you to know that that was
Speaker 1: sort of heartbreaking, that it looked so inhuman and it
Speaker 1: was it was just very hurtful to see. I think
Speaker 1: that that is a picture perfect incident of why the
Speaker 1: call Black Lives Matter exists. But I also want to
Speaker 1: introduce Janelle Would. Janelle is from or founded an organization
Speaker 1: called the Black Mother's Form. It was started in twenty
Speaker 1: sixteen and formalized in twenty seventeen. If I'm not correct,
Speaker 1: So I want you to talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: the Black Mother's Forum. Where did come from, why, why
Speaker 1: does it exist?
Speaker 3: Well, thank you, my lovely black son. Black Mother's Forum
Speaker 3: came into existence in August of twenty sixteen to provide
Speaker 3: support for my beautiful mother sisters like Ms Johnson, like Ernon,
Speaker 3: and other mothers who have had to face the realities
Speaker 3: and the trauma of losing a child, a son, or
Speaker 3: a daughter to police brutality. Me as mothers came together
Speaker 3: in that day on August seventh, twenty sixteen, to address
Speaker 3: the police brutality that we had seen repeatedly on national
Speaker 3: TV here in our state, and oftentimes mothers their voices
Speaker 3: have been silenced and we've been over talked by some
Speaker 3: of our brothers. They don't mean to do it. At
Speaker 3: times they do our community leaders. And I don't believe
Speaker 3: a man can effectively articulate the pain that a mother
Speaker 3: feels when her son or her daughter has been ripped
Speaker 3: from her brutally, because only a mother can understand the
Speaker 3: pain from the womb. The womb is a pain so
Speaker 3: deep that no one else can articulate that the way
Speaker 3: a mother can, and what we came to do is
Speaker 3: we came to help our mothers better articulate their pain,
Speaker 3: better articulate our concerns, and what we want to see
Speaker 3: happen to stop these types of atrocities and these types
Speaker 3: of systems that continue to get permission for those who
Speaker 3: are in positions to protect and serve us, to kill
Speaker 3: us without any consequences, without any remorse, and without any
Speaker 3: humanity behind their decision to do so, knowing that they
Speaker 3: will not be held accountable. And so we came together
Speaker 3: and said, enough is enough. We will no longer remain
Speaker 3: silent or quiet. We will no longer stand by and
Speaker 3: allow people to abuse our children, to disrespect our children,
Speaker 3: to neglect our children, to kill our children, to terrorize
Speaker 3: our children, to humiliate our children, to harm our children,
Speaker 3: to talk down to our children. We said, enough is
Speaker 3: enough of that. With your policies, your practices, your systems,
Speaker 3: your curriculums, whatever touches our children, you will stop doing
Speaker 3: it to cause them harm. We're here for our children
Speaker 3: to live, and we're not going to play the game anymore.
Speaker 3: We've had enough of that. And we believe that once
Speaker 3: Mama starts to speak, and when George Floyd called out
Speaker 3: for his mama. The same day Dion was taken from us,
Speaker 3: the same day they took away George Floyd, and the
Speaker 3: world got to see that, and he called out for mama.
Speaker 3: So he evoked every black mama on the face of
Speaker 3: this earth, those mothers all over the world protesting the
Speaker 3: brutality against our children, especially our sons and daughters.
Speaker 1: So excuse me, So you did mention that that was
Speaker 1: very powerful. Just a personal note. You know, I didn't
Speaker 1: grow up with my birth mother, so a lot of
Speaker 1: times when I hear about you know, mothers and that
Speaker 1: passion that that reminds me of something that I've kind
Speaker 1: of pulled from different sources in my life. And just
Speaker 1: to hear a passionate plea like that, it is especially
Speaker 1: meaningful to me. But I do want to talk about this.
Speaker 1: You mentioned something about curriculum, and I think it's important
Speaker 1: to I'm going somewhere with this. I think it's important
Speaker 1: to look at the whole entire criminal justice system, not
Speaker 1: just the policing, because there are many people who they
Speaker 1: can live through an incident with the police. You know,
Speaker 1: there's people who are brutalized and they live, but now
Speaker 1: they are into the criminal justice system which historically has
Speaker 1: never treated black and brown folks fairly. In fact, it's
Speaker 1: quite the obsolete. It's extremely unfair comparatively speaking. And I
Speaker 1: think that when you mentioned curriculum, it brings to mind
Speaker 1: what's known as the school to prison pipeline. And I
Speaker 1: want you to talk about what the school to prison
Speaker 1: pipeline is and what the Black Mother's Forum has done
Speaker 1: to address the school to prison pipeline.
Speaker 3: So, the school to prison pipeline is a pipeline where
Speaker 3: we had identified that starts where teachers and administrators start
Speaker 3: to target our black sons and daughters by with little infractions,
Speaker 3: so minor infractions such as the teacher saying, this child
Speaker 3: disrespected me, this child disrupted my class, this child has
Speaker 3: an attitude, this child did this, and our children are
Speaker 3: then sent to the office. Let me tell you how
Speaker 3: it begins. They're sent to the office and then they
Speaker 3: get something called a consequence. It's a disciplinary practice. This
Speaker 3: discipline is for something minor, but the actual consequence itself
Speaker 3: is very punitive, oftentimes resulting in our children being suspended,
Speaker 3: which interrupts their instruction time. So now we're in school.
Speaker 3: Now we're going to put you out of school. We're
Speaker 3: gonna suspend you for several days. You're now going to
Speaker 3: be labeled as a troublemaker. You're going to be labeled
Speaker 3: as someone who can't keep up with school because you've
Speaker 3: missed two weeks of school. You come back, you're behind,
Speaker 3: you're failing. Now they start to label you. You start
Speaker 3: to act out because now because you've missed so much time,
Speaker 3: you're no longer you're no longer engaged. Because you're behind,
Speaker 3: you feel embarrassed, and so we start the process and
Speaker 3: then they start to put you out again because you're
Speaker 3: not engaged. You're going to be disconnected and you're most
Speaker 3: likely be in class not paying attention because you don't
Speaker 3: know where you're at in class, and that starts you
Speaker 3: back down the hall, back to the principal. So we
Speaker 3: have this route right. And the more the child sits
Speaker 3: out of school, the more the child gets behind, the
Speaker 3: more their instruction time is interrupted, the more their educational
Speaker 3: endeavors have been deterred. They will find themselves in a
Speaker 3: position where they are interacting now more with law enforcement
Speaker 3: than they've ever done before because there's nothing else to do.
Speaker 3: They're out on the streets parents have to work, and
Speaker 3: they now find themselves with the wrong types of company.
Speaker 3: They're drawn to that, and so here we are, and
Speaker 3: then that starts that child down a path. That's one way.
Speaker 3: The other way the scooter prison pipeline works is that
Speaker 3: by third grade, if you can't read at a certain level.
Speaker 3: Now they start to say, well, this child, this child here,
Speaker 3: and this child, this child's going to go somewhere. This
Speaker 3: child is not. This child has some potential because they're
Speaker 3: an athlete, we'll go ahead and move them over here.
Speaker 3: And so now they start this sorting game. And then
Speaker 3: our children that don't they feel that are not going
Speaker 3: to make it. They become the target of harassment by
Speaker 3: the schools and the teachers. They are bullied by the
Speaker 3: schools and teachers, and then they start finding themselves on
Speaker 3: the other side of an expulsion or a suspension can
Speaker 3: expel our children for up to a year. What is
Speaker 3: a child to do for a year? We missed school time,
Speaker 3: and that means they can't go to school anywhere else.
Speaker 3: When you have an expulsion, you cannot go to school
Speaker 3: anywhere else for a year. So that child has missed
Speaker 3: a year of their education. When they come back there behind.
Speaker 3: They're embarrassed, and they're definitely discouraged, and they are truly
Speaker 3: not interested. And so what will they do. They'll find
Speaker 3: themselves in a situation where they will be and they
Speaker 3: will be moving towards having those negative interactions with law
Speaker 3: enforcement because they gotta find something to do with their time.
Speaker 3: And trust me, there's elements out there that will give
Speaker 3: them something to do. And so this is the prison pipeline,
Speaker 3: and then we get in. So then that's the school,
Speaker 3: the pipeline school. Now we're going to the pipeline. The
Speaker 3: pipeline again is these suspensions lead me into negative interactions
Speaker 3: with the police. Now I start to get a record.
Speaker 3: Now it can be a juvenile record because I've had
Speaker 3: fifth graders going to juvenile court. Wow, juvenile court. Yes, yes,
Speaker 3: we worked with them. Little girls, my little black daughters,
Speaker 3: being harassed on the school bus by a little white
Speaker 3: boy's thumping her in the head and playing with her
Speaker 3: hair and calling her names. She goes to the school
Speaker 3: bus driver and says, hey, he keeps hitting me and
Speaker 3: calling me the N word. He's bullying her. The bus
Speaker 3: driver says, stop being overly sensitive, go sit down. Little
Speaker 3: boy picks on her again. She can only take so much,
Speaker 3: and what she does and she turns around and she
Speaker 3: finishes this whole conversation. Since she finishes it, Guess who
Speaker 3: gets taken to the nurse. The white boy who's older
Speaker 3: than her. Guess who was met by some by the principal,
Speaker 3: escorted to the office and then to the police. A
Speaker 3: ten year old. This happens all the time. Now she's
Speaker 3: in the pipeline, she's going to court. Her mother's terrified.
Speaker 3: They ask us for help. We give the attorneys, you know,
Speaker 3: attorneys that help us with this, and we advocate. We'll
Speaker 3: go with them to court with them for helping to
Speaker 3: read through policy with them, help them understand. We've also
Speaker 3: acted as community service. Where the kids need to do
Speaker 3: community service, they can do it through us, so they
Speaker 3: can get those hours and not have a record. This
Speaker 3: is terrifying for parents. But now this child has a record.
Speaker 3: They so they start as early. I had a five
Speaker 3: year old, five year old kindergarten boy who a principal
Speaker 3: got on the phone and told me the boy threatened her.
Speaker 3: She was scared for her life. He had no gun,
Speaker 3: he's only five. He was a threat to the school
Speaker 3: and they expelled him for a whole year. That means
Speaker 3: he couldn't go to school for the whole year of
Speaker 3: his five year old. Now, what are we gonna have.
Speaker 3: What's gonna be the problem with him moving forward? We're
Speaker 3: gonna have some problems there, so we're gonna put them
Speaker 3: in the pipeline, and then at some point we're going
Speaker 3: to prison, because you're gonna have all these stack ups
Speaker 3: of different offenses until one day they're gonna get you're
Speaker 3: gonna go to prison. And this is how it begins,
Speaker 3: just one little thing after the other, Just like with school,
Speaker 3: they stack on the referrals. The parent doesn't even know
Speaker 3: the referrals are happening. They don't have to tell the
Speaker 3: parent that they're sending their child to the office. The
Speaker 3: parent thinks the child is sitting in class all day.
Speaker 3: Child's sitting in the office, and they got one referral
Speaker 3: to the other until they finally suspend them, and the
Speaker 3: parent says, well, what happened We've been having problems with
Speaker 3: your child? How come I'm just now finding out about it. Well,
Speaker 3: we've been handling it. No you haven't. Clearly you haven't
Speaker 3: handled it, and had you let me know. We would
Speaker 3: have dealt with this earlier on, but they won't let
Speaker 3: you know because they have to put the build up
Speaker 3: the record against them. And now they have a discipline
Speaker 3: file about this thick and by the time the parent
Speaker 3: finds out and we've gotten involved a change that we
Speaker 3: disrupt that. And what we do is we go in
Speaker 3: and look at the policy, We look at the practice,
Speaker 3: We question why it went down this way and if
Speaker 3: we can get in it. And some parents don't even
Speaker 3: know about us until the until us after the fact,
Speaker 3: but those who find out abous while they're in the
Speaker 3: middle of it. We've gotten involved where we've gone in,
Speaker 3: challenged the decision and been able to get it reversed,
Speaker 3: got the child back in school, got the child tutoring
Speaker 3: to get them caught up after school, and the teacher
Speaker 3: that put him out, that's the teacher is going to
Speaker 3: tutor them and get them caught up very good. We're
Speaker 3: not playing the games like this is enough. You you're
Speaker 3: the one that caused this. You're gonna make sure they
Speaker 3: get caught up, and you're gonna spend your extra time
Speaker 3: after school and make sure it happen. So these are
Speaker 3: some of the things that we've done, We've changed policy,
Speaker 3: We've done Office of Civil Rights complaints. So Office the
Speaker 3: Civil Rights they're the federal arm of the Department of
Speaker 3: Education and Department of Justice. And so what we do
Speaker 3: is we help parents build their case, make sure they
Speaker 3: document document, document, We go through the proper channels. We
Speaker 3: go to the principle they say, no, we're not going
Speaker 3: to change our decision. Oh okay. Then we go to superintendent. No,
Speaker 3: we're not going to change our decision. Okay. We go
Speaker 3: to the governing board, No, we agree with the decision.
Speaker 3: Oh okay. Then we go to the Office of Civil Rights.
Speaker 3: Now we have gotten all the paperwork, Officer Civil Rights
Speaker 3: will take it because we'll say this child was bullied,
Speaker 3: they were threatened due to their race based on these
Speaker 3: things had occurred. No other child that was white we
Speaker 3: did the same thing, would have gotten this type of
Speaker 3: punishment for this long and put we boomed data. So
Speaker 3: we get the data, we show them. Officer Civil Rights
Speaker 3: takes it. This is when we get an opportunity to
Speaker 3: do a mediation. It's called a mediation. Went that mediation.
Speaker 3: What we've done is we've been able to rewrite policies
Speaker 3: and practices as a result of the agreement and the settlement,
Speaker 3: parents have also received damages because I make sure they're
Speaker 3: documenting the damage that it's caused their child through going
Speaker 3: to mental health counseling, getting services for that child. And
Speaker 3: now we have a bill and we're like, here's the bill,
Speaker 3: here's what's happened, and we get damages for the parent
Speaker 3: because the parent has been through something, get them. And
Speaker 3: so the parent gets paid for their trauma, what it's
Speaker 3: done to their family, alice has impacted their siblings. We
Speaker 3: get it all for them, but we also get policy
Speaker 3: changes and practices, and this is how we've started to
Speaker 3: interrupt and disrupt some of this foolishness at the school
Speaker 3: school level.
Speaker 1: Very good, awesome. The I appreciate the fact that the
Speaker 1: Black Mother's Forum isn't just for when a life is lost,
Speaker 1: and you know, I know that it's for that too,
Speaker 1: but it's it has a three hundred and sixty degree
Speaker 1: approach to what it means to be a black mother
Speaker 1: raising a black child in this country. And I do
Speaker 1: want to talk more about that, but it brings the thought,
Speaker 1: you know, Miss Johnson, for those of us who didn't
Speaker 1: grow up with dionn for those of us who might
Speaker 1: be maybe they're not even black, maybe they're just an
Speaker 1: ally to black people and they know the name, you know,
Speaker 1: or they've been on the streets or whatever. I think
Speaker 1: it's important for us to you know, I can't tell
Speaker 1: you what it means to honor someone's legacy, but I
Speaker 1: think it, you know, in my heart of hearts, I
Speaker 1: think it's good to honor his legacy by telling the
Speaker 1: full story about the man. And for those of us
Speaker 1: who have championed this cry, for those of us who
Speaker 1: drive by his murals and will remember that name for
Speaker 1: the rest of our lives, would you please tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about what Dionne was like, you know,
Speaker 1: growing up, what he was like to be around. You know,
Speaker 1: that's your baby, So I'd like to hear it from
Speaker 1: his mother.
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, because I always been smart, ever since
Speaker 2: he was little. He was always smart.
Speaker 4: He loved music. I love music.
Speaker 2: He wanted to pursue his music. But as a child,
Speaker 2: when he was growing up, he was just like my
Speaker 2: little shadow. He wanted to go everywhere with me.
Speaker 4: He wanted to just be with me. I don't care.
Speaker 2: I have other children, but he was the one that
Speaker 2: just was always under me, and when I go somewhere,
Speaker 2: he's always think he has to go with me.
Speaker 4: He liked sports.
Speaker 2: He was good at sports, as strong as a mule.
Speaker 2: That little boy, well, that boy, he was strong. He
Speaker 2: was very strong. And No, he just he had a
Speaker 2: lot of friends peers that loved him because of his personality,
Speaker 2: because he was he was the type of person that
Speaker 2: when you're around him, you just love to be around
Speaker 2: him because he was he had that personality that kind
Speaker 2: of like funny type of character.
Speaker 1: Sure he was.
Speaker 4: Light of a party. Yeah, And as he grew, you know,
Speaker 4: he had some little troubles.
Speaker 3: No, and.
Speaker 4: But still that wasn't my son. I think he just got.
Speaker 2: With the wrong crew, let him down the wrong path.
Speaker 2: I was always the mother that says, look, you know,
Speaker 2: some of these boys that wanted to hang with him
Speaker 2: was a lot older than him. And I wasn't good
Speaker 2: with that. But it happened because I can't watch him
Speaker 2: all the time, have to work out, to do other things.
Speaker 2: And he went down these paths, but he he always
Speaker 2: came back around. He was a good person, genuinely a
Speaker 2: good person. He had a genuine heart. He would help anybody.
Speaker 2: He loved children, He loved to help the elderly, he
Speaker 2: loved to help women. He would help anybody.
Speaker 4: If that's what he needed to do, he would do it.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: No Amzi and I used to tell him like, well,
Speaker 2: why do you you know? Kids would come over and
Speaker 2: sometimes they didn't have shirt or shoes or whatever. They
Speaker 2: would go in the closet and get their things out,
Speaker 2: and I get mad.
Speaker 4: I'm like, why are you giving these kids your stuff?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 4: Well, Momy, that's only material things. We can get it.
Speaker 2: Again, I'm like, but you need it too, you know.
Speaker 2: I'm like, wait a minute, where's their parents at? You know,
Speaker 2: But that's the type of person he was. He was
Speaker 2: just giving heavy all the time.
Speaker 1: I think it's important to know the man behind the
Speaker 1: video and the murals. And the reason I say that
Speaker 1: is because now what you're doing is talking about a
Speaker 1: full life. Obviously, we understand that there's a human being
Speaker 1: who's endowed with consciousness. But when you talk about how
Speaker 1: generous dionnos and when you talk about his passions and
Speaker 1: the things that he was really into, I think it
Speaker 1: paints a much better picture. I can't, for the life
Speaker 1: of me, imagine someone hearing you say what you just
Speaker 1: said about your child and then snuffing his life out.
Speaker 1: But I think that a lot of prejudices exists, is
Speaker 1: just a personal and you know, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of prejudices exist. A lot of fear based on the
Speaker 1: fear mongering in place exists in these institutions and these systems.
Speaker 1: And then you know, a lot of times, you know,
Speaker 1: folks talk about systemic racism, systemic problems and historically racist
Speaker 1: institutions that treat black folks unfairly. Anyone that hears Okay,
Speaker 1: there's a young man who might have had some problems,
Speaker 1: but otherwise was a good man, pointed in the right direction,
Speaker 1: you know, et cetera. You know, that's the sort of
Speaker 1: person that, in my in my thinking, deserves help, not
Speaker 1: a death sentence, you know. And if we had the
Speaker 1: right systems in the place to help people or to
Speaker 1: offset the cultural traumas and the generational traumas that black
Speaker 1: folks have endured, I think that we begin to start
Speaker 1: having the conversations that we really need to have. And so,
Speaker 1: as opposed to being overly policed, let's think about it
Speaker 1: in terms of like perhaps a health problem as opposed
Speaker 1: to a criminal problem. So I I want to know,
Speaker 1: you know, because obviously you know DM. What was your
Speaker 1: reaction when you found out that they weren't going to
Speaker 1: be pressing any sort of criminal charges against officer Servantes?
Speaker 1: I believe his name is someone who had, from my understanding,
Speaker 1: previous complaints of racial profiling of incidents. You know, as
Speaker 1: a police officer, what was your thinking when you found
Speaker 1: that they weren't going to be filing.
Speaker 2: First of all, was mortified. I wasn't shocked, and I
Speaker 2: felt that they were going to do that. But at
Speaker 2: the same time, it hurt because, Okay, had this officer
Speaker 2: did what he was supposed to do, I said, I
Speaker 2: would be here today and instead. And you really need
Speaker 2: to read the police report because it's mind blowing how
Speaker 2: this officer well, I felt for my life or I
Speaker 2: seen I had a flashback of my buddies that got
Speaker 2: hurt out here.
Speaker 3: You know, he was.
Speaker 2: Using everything but the right thing to say why he
Speaker 2: justified to kill my son? And none of it was justified.
Speaker 2: That's what he said. That's what he wanted everybody to know,
Speaker 2: is this is the reason why he shot and killed
Speaker 2: my son.
Speaker 4: Had he wait?
Speaker 2: Because the thing of it is, like I said, then,
Speaker 2: I was a big guy, very strong, very muscular. He
Speaker 2: was strong, so this officer couldn't pull him out, and
Speaker 2: he got mad. He got mad because my son was
Speaker 2: stronger than him, and so instead of him waiting for
Speaker 2: someone else to come and help him, he thought the
Speaker 2: gun would be his thing, that once I shoot him,
Speaker 2: I'll get you out.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: But as I relive and I played back the incident
Speaker 2: of how he even approached my son, because what he did,
Speaker 2: he did everything illegal.
Speaker 4: He didn't.
Speaker 2: He didn't announce hisself. He didn't see my son could
Speaker 2: have been sick. My son could have had a seizure
Speaker 2: or had a heart attack or anything, but he didn't.
Speaker 2: He just thought, Okay, that's like you said. I've seen
Speaker 2: beer cans all over the car. Supposedly I smelled alcohol.
Speaker 2: You know, my son wasn't a lush. He drink, but
Speaker 2: he don't drink like that, and he knows he's driving.
Speaker 2: He's not gonna have how he explained it all over
Speaker 2: the car like that, that's un as cautious. He's a
Speaker 2: very clean person. He's not gonna ride around with empty
Speaker 2: cans all over the car.
Speaker 4: So he's not like that.
Speaker 2: They portrayed him to be just a monster, that he
Speaker 2: was just a alright drug and that's not him.
Speaker 4: He wasn't like that.
Speaker 1: Well, I I've I've been able to kind of plug
Speaker 1: in with you know, some of your family members here
Speaker 1: and there, just kind of over here on all sort
Speaker 1: of things. So I know that to be something a
Speaker 1: viewpoint that a lot of folks share that really knew them.
Speaker 1: So this is the place where you can say that
Speaker 1: and it will stay on the air. So I'm not
Speaker 1: taking that out. And I think it's very important for
Speaker 1: people to know that sometimes the police play with the
Speaker 1: optics because they have an incentive in maintaining a certain
Speaker 1: narrative so that they can continue to operate with immunity
Speaker 1: and continue to exist. Just like any other entity that's
Speaker 1: bent on its own survival, the police are no different. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm not here to make head or tails of what
Speaker 1: the police do, but that's something that has been historically documented,
Speaker 1: especially as it pertains to black and brown people. So
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure that you understand that that
Speaker 1: this is the space for that conversation and for the
Speaker 1: folks listening. If you don't know that now, you know
Speaker 1: now what I'm hoping is that that's not the end
Speaker 1: of the story that they won't file criminal charges, that
Speaker 1: you might pursue civil charges.
Speaker 4: You know, I do.
Speaker 1: The way I initially heard. Well, part of what I
Speaker 1: initially heard was that after he was wounded, he stayed
Speaker 1: there for six seven minutes on the side of the
Speaker 1: road where they gave him medical attention, which could have
Speaker 1: saved his life as well. Is there any other path
Speaker 1: that you can pursue to ensure that the right story
Speaker 1: is told and that justice is served.
Speaker 2: Well, we're talking about the six minutes from the camera
Speaker 2: footage that we've seen, which was edited. Yes, that was
Speaker 2: the six minutes that he when we looked at the camera,
Speaker 2: the EMTs were there, the fire trucks were already there.
Speaker 2: That was the six minutes that they just laid back
Speaker 2: and did nothing right. So it happened at a certain time.
Speaker 2: It was even more minutes before that incident happened that
Speaker 2: he was shot. He was shot at supposably five point
Speaker 2: thirty three two that morning.
Speaker 4: And this is all it's all a.
Speaker 2: Collaborated type of deal because after the first incident that happened,
Speaker 2: that the shots were fired. Shots were fired, that's what
Speaker 2: we heard. That was at five thirty three in.
Speaker 1: The morning, okay, when you're talking about the nine one
Speaker 1: one car.
Speaker 4: Honk, when.
Speaker 2: I don't know how long between that time and the
Speaker 2: time they pulled him out the car that he was
Speaker 2: laying there, and then it took several minutes after that
Speaker 2: before they even let them come in to even render
Speaker 2: aid to him. So I'm thinking a good forty thirty
Speaker 2: forty five minutes that passed before they even got him
Speaker 2: to the hospital. And then once he got to the hospital,
Speaker 2: he was still talking. He gave them their name, he
Speaker 2: knew who he was, so at that time, I don't
Speaker 2: know what happened after that after he got to the hospital.
Speaker 1: Well, at some point, the hope is that you know,
Speaker 1: all of the the tapes will be released and everyone
Speaker 1: will know everything that happened. That's something that you're helping
Speaker 1: out with, as you know, and you know, if it's
Speaker 1: meaningful to make this into a civil matter, then I
Speaker 1: guess the hope, at least from the community is that
Speaker 1: there will be at least that recourse for you and
Speaker 1: your family.
Speaker 3: So, and it is our hope, and we are pushing
Speaker 3: or Officer Savantes not to have a job. He no
Speaker 3: longer needs to wear the badge have access to the
Speaker 3: gun or the power to take anyone else's life to
Speaker 3: abuse is the authority. He continuously has proven that he
Speaker 3: is going to operate outside of his policies. He feels
Speaker 3: he doesn't have to because in the past, with all
Speaker 3: the complaints, he continues to get off. And so the
Speaker 3: message that's been sent to officer Savants in the past
Speaker 3: is that we will give you an administrative leave, get
Speaker 3: yourself together, and we're going to bring you back. He
Speaker 3: has had repeated aggressive offenses against women, against animals, internally
Speaker 3: and externally. He's had complaints, and so he is a danger.
Speaker 3: He's an imminent threat to our communities of color, and
Speaker 3: we do not wish to have him on the streets
Speaker 3: or on the force. And so we are pushing even
Speaker 3: though the attorney, the county attorney, that believe that there
Speaker 3: should be criminal charges because the way he framed the story.
Speaker 3: Again he's the only one telling the story. Let's see
Speaker 3: the way he framed it. He still has to deal
Speaker 3: with human resources for the state and there's a personnel issue.
Speaker 3: You violated your policies again. This is the fourteenth time
Speaker 3: that we know of that's on the books. Very good
Speaker 3: that he's violated the policy. So I don't know how
Speaker 3: many employees can violate policies of their employer that many
Speaker 3: times and continue to have a job. And so this
Speaker 3: is ridiculous. And so we're like, no, no, we still
Speaker 3: want him off the force. He does not need to
Speaker 3: be on the force. So that's I know Mss Johnson
Speaker 3: is pushing for that, for sure. We're pushing for that.
Speaker 3: We're working, We've I've been talking to Colonel Silbert, I've
Speaker 3: talked to his office. We're going to continue to push
Speaker 3: for him to no longer have a job. And it
Speaker 3: would be sad for him if he does stay on
Speaker 3: the force, because that won't be well for him, that
Speaker 3: won't go too well for him to be out there
Speaker 3: on the street. I just believe he would want to
Speaker 3: come off the streets and not be a part of
Speaker 3: this anymore. Just because of what happened. He has escalated,
Speaker 3: his behavior has escalated. They need to cut him. He
Speaker 3: needs to come off the forest. That's the other thing.
Speaker 3: And I know that we're looking I know she's looking
Speaker 3: at you know, the notice of claiming the suit and
Speaker 3: all of those things. So those things are coming, I know,
Speaker 3: good and we'll be very much a part of helping her.
Speaker 3: The family push for that. We will advocate for those
Speaker 3: things for sure.
Speaker 1: So that brings me the thoughts. So you work with
Speaker 1: families directly a lot of times. But I also know
Speaker 1: that with the Black Mothers Forum, you I call it
Speaker 1: create cheerleaders or you otherwise empower mothers to make the
Speaker 1: changes in their life and in their communities that they
Speaker 1: want to see, because you can only be in so
Speaker 1: many places and a given amount of time. But what
Speaker 1: you're doing is creating other folks to operate in a
Speaker 1: similar manner to you know, then go out and create
Speaker 1: those changes. How does that look? How do you create cheerleaders?
Speaker 1: How do you empower these women to make those changes?
Speaker 3: Well, what we do is we do advocacy training and
Speaker 3: know your Rights training. Oh okay, So we provide that
Speaker 3: once a month, every third Saturday. Any mother and or
Speaker 3: her child who wants to know their rights, wants to
Speaker 3: know how to advocate for their rights, how to go
Speaker 3: about it, how to navigate the system, how to read
Speaker 3: the policies that are in place and the laws that
Speaker 3: are in play that can help them better navigate it.
Speaker 3: That's what we do. We do a virtual training. Now,
Speaker 3: we used to do it in person. It used to
Speaker 3: be six hours in person on a Saturday. Now virtually
Speaker 3: we're doing it for three hours a virtual training. And
Speaker 3: so what that training does is it walks you through
Speaker 3: the particular laws, walks you through constitutional rights that each
Speaker 3: person has that we don't realize we have. It walks
Speaker 3: you through the policies that are in place that would
Speaker 3: definitely impact the decisions and direction of what would happen
Speaker 3: with your child, either in school. We're working on one
Speaker 3: for the police. I'm working on that right now. We're
Speaker 3: working on anti racism training for our white accomplices to
Speaker 3: get them up to speed because they want to help
Speaker 3: and they don't know how to enter in to this.
Speaker 3: And that's my new focus is to help them enter in.
Speaker 3: I've been called repeatedly and they're like, we need training
Speaker 3: on how to best enter in, to use our privilege,
Speaker 3: How do we best use our privilege, How do we
Speaker 3: best use our platforms to infect these changes in the policies.
Speaker 3: So we do a lot of training. We work with
Speaker 3: the school districts to deal with their equity issues. But
Speaker 3: now I'm calling forth for the schools to denounce racism
Speaker 3: in all its form, because we believe diversity and equity
Speaker 3: and inclusion, just as not quite getting it. The issue
Speaker 3: is anti blackness. There's an anti blackness, uh our with
Speaker 3: the conditioning that has gone on for decades with respect
Speaker 3: to black people, and the systems have done everything they
Speaker 3: can to limit the movement of our black bodies one
Speaker 3: way or the other. And if they can't limit those movies,
Speaker 3: which is what she just expressed, that officer felt he
Speaker 3: couldn't limit Dion's movements because Dion was is strong. Therefore
Speaker 3: he had to destroy it, destroy that black body. He
Speaker 3: shot him. Well, this is what's happening in the schools too.
Speaker 3: If I can't make this black child do what I
Speaker 3: want it to do, this hum or her to do,
Speaker 3: then because they see us, they don't see us really
Speaker 3: as humans most of the time, because of how the
Speaker 3: false narratives have played out. Sure, so that's why I
Speaker 3: said it. I said that on purpose, So that's how
Speaker 3: they think. But when they cannot limit our movements, they
Speaker 3: can't limit how we talk, if we talk back, if
Speaker 3: we ask a question in class, if we put the
Speaker 3: teacher on the spot cause you didn't know what they're
Speaker 3: talking about, then they say, well, then they must destroy
Speaker 3: this child, and that way I don't have to deal
Speaker 3: with them. So I'm gonna kick 'em out. I wanna
Speaker 3: put it through all these changes. I'm going to let
Speaker 3: them be bullied. I'm gonna let them be called the
Speaker 3: N word all day long. I'm going to let them
Speaker 3: get to the point where they fight. Then I'm gonna
Speaker 3: let them get in trouble for fighting because they're responding.
Speaker 3: So this is what happens. And so we're dealing with racism.
Speaker 3: It's an anti blackness. So we've decided I've been starting
Speaker 3: to call schools on that and say, I need you
Speaker 3: to issue a statement saying that you will denounce every
Speaker 3: form of racism, black and anti blackness in your school systems,
Speaker 3: within your practices, your policies, uh, your curriculum. Because the curriculum,
Speaker 3: how they approach history, how they do not have any
Speaker 3: marketing materials that even reflect them black children even go
Speaker 3: to their schools. These are things that I've looked at.
Speaker 3: I look at that, and the schools have called me
Speaker 3: in to be a part of these conversations. Those schools
Speaker 3: that really want to do this work good.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: So I've been working with the schools on these particular subjects.
Speaker 3: So we're doing a lot of that, but the parents
Speaker 3: teaching them their school policies, teaching them right now, working
Speaker 3: on the use of force policy for the police. I'm
Speaker 3: pulling that thing apart because my goal is to make
Speaker 3: sure that I put me developed the curriculum of training
Speaker 3: for our parents, our black parents, and our youth to
Speaker 3: understand what use of force is, what it should look like,
Speaker 3: and to get them to develop the proper questions to
Speaker 3: start to question the use of these things because we
Speaker 3: don't know what we don't know, but we gonna know
Speaker 3: because I'm working on it now. I actually have some
Speaker 3: young people actually reading it over for me, because I
Speaker 3: want to get our young people involved in reviewing policies.
Speaker 3: We can be in the streets all day protesting, that's great,
Speaker 3: but if you don't know what these policies says say,
Speaker 3: and what these laws say, and what these protocols and
Speaker 3: procedures and operation, man, you'll say and you can't get
Speaker 3: anything done or change. So that's what we're doing now.
Speaker 1: And if you're if you're just tuning in the wors
Speaker 1: you just heard is the voice of Janelle Wood, the
Speaker 1: creator of the Black Mother's Forum Incorporated. My other guest
Speaker 1: today is Irma Johnson, the mother of Dion Johnson, the
Speaker 1: young man whose life was taken by the Arizona DPS.
Speaker 1: You now, miss Johnson, Uh, you know again, obviously you've
Speaker 1: endured something unimaginable and uh, you know, my heart and
Speaker 1: a lot of people. I saw thousands of thousands of
Speaker 1: people's heart that go out to you, you know, and uh,
Speaker 1: if if this could culminate in something positive or at
Speaker 1: least something with a silver lining, I guess my question is,
Speaker 1: what are some of the changes you would like to
Speaker 1: see on the other side of burying your child.
Speaker 4: There's so many.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we're here for. We're not going to
Speaker 1: turn that mic off.
Speaker 3: You keep going.
Speaker 4: I just want to see changes.
Speaker 2: I mean, even me, when I'm driving in the officer
Speaker 2: I look up and these behind me, I just, you know,
Speaker 2: my heart just flutters. I'm like, oh God, please just
Speaker 2: let this guy go and don't bother me. But it's
Speaker 2: just it's scary. And I don't think that me as
Speaker 2: been a black woman, or even a man has been
Speaker 2: a black man, or what have you. Even these young
Speaker 2: stairs is out here driving whatever I don't want I
Speaker 2: don't want them to be afraid to have to come
Speaker 2: in contact with officers when you know they're behind them,
Speaker 2: or cut the lights on them, and they don't know
Speaker 2: what they're gonna shoot them, if they're gonna you know,
Speaker 2: if they're gonna harass them, or just search their cars
Speaker 2: or and stuff like that. I just want everybody to
Speaker 2: know their rights, know what they can and cannot do.
Speaker 2: But overall, I just I don't know, I just it's
Speaker 2: so hard. I just don't want to I just don't want,
Speaker 2: you know, us to be happened to be in fear
Speaker 2: of being stopped by a cop.
Speaker 4: You know, that's that's terrifying. It's something that you just
Speaker 4: don't want to do.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I know. In fact, I was just having
Speaker 1: a conversation earlier today about the most recent time I
Speaker 1: got pulled over by the police and how terrifying it
Speaker 1: was in Mississippi, and it was probably two forty five
Speaker 1: in the morning. And I mean, if you know me,
Speaker 1: I've never in my life had a drink of alcohol.
Speaker 1: I've never done a drug. I've never done anything that
Speaker 1: would even get me remotely close to being in trouble
Speaker 1: with buds and yet I am absolutely paralytically terrified of
Speaker 1: the police. And you know, I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: the same people that show up to get the actual
Speaker 1: bad guys are the same people that show up to
Speaker 1: make sure that you know you're driving along in mind
Speaker 1: in your business, okay, And those same people with the
Speaker 1: same traumas that we mentioned that Officer Servantes was drawing
Speaker 1: from when he was worried that Dianne was going to
Speaker 1: do something. You know, all those people, they know violence,
Speaker 1: they know aggression, that's the sort of the world they
Speaker 1: come from. And then what I'm staring at as a
Speaker 1: person with a murder weapon and his hand on it
Speaker 1: asking me to get out of my car on the
Speaker 1: side of a road in Mississippi somewhere. And so it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter how right you are or how wrong you
Speaker 1: are for that matter, if someone wants to take your
Speaker 1: life and they can do it with impunity, I think
Speaker 1: that that is an exceptionally unfair power dynamic to have
Speaker 1: over another human being endowed with consciousness from whatever you
Speaker 1: believe our same creator to be. It is the same creator.
Speaker 1: And for one human being to have that power over
Speaker 1: another as though they get away with it, that's yeah,
Speaker 1: so so well said. But you know, before we start
Speaker 1: to wind down here, I do want to talk about.
Speaker 3: I know that.
Speaker 1: For the Black Mother's Form, Janelle, that you often collaborate
Speaker 1: with other organizations and you work on other projects as well,
Speaker 1: not just as Janelle from the Black Mother's Forum, but
Speaker 1: one that comes to mind is the Census. And while
Speaker 1: I have you here, I do want because I worked
Speaker 1: with you on the Census, you in doctor Westernberg, and
Speaker 1: I do think that it's important to while you're here,
Speaker 1: explain why it's important to fill out your census and
Speaker 1: what the implications are if you do or if you don't.
Speaker 3: So well, I want to say it's been a pleasure
Speaker 3: doing the work of the Census. I actually finished my
Speaker 3: assignment with the Census on this past weekend. But the Census,
Speaker 3: the deadline now from what I gather is October fifth,
Speaker 3: twenty twenty. They just extended it. But the importance of
Speaker 3: the Census. I was assigned to the African American community
Speaker 3: and I was assigned to the faith based We typically
Speaker 3: have been one of the most undercounted and under represented
Speaker 3: groups in history of the Census. There's a reason why
Speaker 3: because historically, when the Census came out in seventeen ninety
Speaker 3: where were we as black people? We were enslaved.
Speaker 1: Talk to them.
Speaker 3: So because we were enslaved, we were never invited when
Speaker 3: it came out to even participate and to get counted.
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, the individuals that counted us
Speaker 3: counted us as property and so we and then we
Speaker 3: were not being the whole person. Remember we were three
Speaker 3: quarters of a person. So there was a big battle
Speaker 3: with the South and the North regarding well, how come
Speaker 3: we can't count them as a whole person because counting
Speaker 3: I'm gonna tell you why it's so important that you
Speaker 3: want that whole person. But that means money. That means dollars,
Speaker 3: and so if you can't count a whole person, then
Speaker 3: you don't get the dollars, right, And so they renewed
Speaker 3: it where they said, if a person who's enslaved lives
Speaker 3: to be one hundred years old, they will be counted
Speaker 3: as one whole person. If they managed to live do
Speaker 3: enslavement years, they get a reward. Their reward will be
Speaker 3: they'll be counted as one whole person and their name
Speaker 3: will be placed in the census record. Okay, So that's
Speaker 3: how we were oriented to the census. So now we
Speaker 3: fast forward when we do become persons and now we're
Speaker 3: being invited to participate. When we are invited to participate
Speaker 3: in the census, there's a couple of questions on there.
Speaker 3: They're called citizenship question. Another problem, they want to know
Speaker 3: if we're a fugitive. Now are you a fugitive? Are
Speaker 3: you a free now? Who would say they're a fugitive.
Speaker 3: So they're hiding out, so that means if I put
Speaker 3: this down, that means you're gonna find me, take me
Speaker 3: back to enslavement, so I'm not going to get counted.
Speaker 3: It's like what we're seeing today with our brown brothers
Speaker 3: and sisters who want to undocumented, the threats of there
Speaker 3: being a citizenship question on there that was to stop
Speaker 3: them from getting counted. Now, wise county is so important
Speaker 3: because resources that means funding is tied to every person
Speaker 3: that gets counted. And here in the state of Arizona,
Speaker 3: three thousand dollars is allotted per person for every year
Speaker 3: for ten years, So one person for ten years can
Speaker 3: generate thirty thousand dollars that will come into their community.
Speaker 2: So it is.
Speaker 3: Important reason why our communities are suffering and struggling when
Speaker 3: we look across the nation is because black people don't
Speaker 3: trust the government. We don't trust that when they get
Speaker 3: the information that we give them, they're not going to
Speaker 3: give it to somebody. I may have a record, I
Speaker 3: may have some charges. I don't know what may be
Speaker 3: going on, but I think that you're going to release
Speaker 3: that information to some entity that can come and hurt me.
Speaker 3: I think think that if I'm on Section eight or housing,
Speaker 3: that if I let you know who's all here, that
Speaker 3: it's going to be a number problem because I may
Speaker 3: have more people living here than I should. And so
Speaker 3: what we try to do is help people understand. According
Speaker 3: to Title thirteen. Turning the Title thirteen the US Code,
Speaker 3: it says, we as the census coming along with the census,
Speaker 3: but the Census cannot release your information to any entity,
Speaker 3: any department.
Speaker 4: Ever.
Speaker 3: Your information is sealed for seventy two years. That's by
Speaker 3: law the only thing that gets released, and in an
Speaker 3: aggregate format. Aggregate numerical basis is statistical is your the
Speaker 3: ages of the people in the household, the demographic as
Speaker 3: far as race, so we can know whether who's in
Speaker 3: that particular tract. The census tract is boundaries. It's not
Speaker 3: zip codes, it's boundaries, So again another form of anonymity.
Speaker 3: The other thing that the sense as numbers are tied
Speaker 3: to its representation. How many representatives can we get as
Speaker 3: a state. We had eight hundred thousand new people move
Speaker 3: into Arizona from twenty ten to twenty twenty approximately. That
Speaker 3: gives us another seat in Congress. That means we have
Speaker 3: an opportunity to get another voice at the table for Arizona.
Speaker 3: In twenty ten, we gained a seat. We gained the
Speaker 3: nice seat where Congressman Greg Stanton sits in that seat.
Speaker 3: Now we stand to gain another seat after twenty twenty
Speaker 3: if we all get counted. The other thing it's tied
Speaker 3: too is redistricting. This is very important because school district
Speaker 3: lines get redrawn every ten years. If I don't show
Speaker 3: a certain demographic is in a certain area when they
Speaker 3: are very well, those lines could be redrawn and it
Speaker 3: could hurt that particular community because now they'll have a
Speaker 3: representation that really doesn't represent them. But I didn't know
Speaker 3: you were here. The only people that got counted here
Speaker 3: was this group. So those three things are tied to
Speaker 3: the census. But the three thousand dollars is really important
Speaker 3: because we've lost out on millions of dollars. Do you
Speaker 3: know there was a million zero to five year old
Speaker 3: children that were not counted in twenty ten, a million
Speaker 3: of that melting. They said eighty percent of them were
Speaker 3: Black children zero to five years old. So yes, So.
Speaker 1: I really thought that it was important for you to
Speaker 1: share that before we wrap up. And I do appreciate
Speaker 1: both of you for coming out do you know what
Speaker 1: from the Black Mother's Form and Irma Johnson, thank you
Speaker 1: for sharing your stories about your son Diarn't Before we
Speaker 1: go briefly, if you could just let everyone listening watching
Speaker 1: know how they can support you.
Speaker 3: Well. You can support Black Mother's Form through going through
Speaker 3: our website www dot Black Mothersforums dot com, or you
Speaker 3: can go on our Facebook page. You can support us
Speaker 3: physically being a part of what we're doing, a part
Speaker 3: of our movement. We need bodies, we need people, we
Speaker 3: need voices. Or you can support us financially through PayPal
Speaker 3: or through our website.
Speaker 1: All right, and miss Johnson, how can people support it?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: For just to keep coming out and showing support. Oh,
Speaker 2: whatever way they want.
Speaker 1: Just keep following the story. Yes, press suring that'll work,
Speaker 1: and of course you can support civic Cipher at civiccipher
Speaker 1: dot com. This is a show for you and we
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Speaker 1: want and need to hear right here on civic Cipher