1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: I never could quite make a decision as to whether 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: he was a dangerous man or whether something snapped. 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: A quite Alaska man known for his ability to live 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: off the grid, was accused of murdering his neighbors. 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: They found him in the creek, and they found her 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: about a week later. She'd been shot in the head 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: and there was evidence of sex, and they thought it 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: was postmortem. 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 2: As the investigation heated up, the suspect took off. 10 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: He went on the run pretty quickly when it became 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: obvious that he was the focus of their investigation. 12 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 2: A month later, the suspect was in custody and faced 13 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: the fight of his life. 14 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: They just couldn't believe he did it. They fundamentally couldn't. 15 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: The guy they knew wouldn't do something like that. 16 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: By the end of his trial, the tables would be 17 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 2: turned and the defense lawyers would be the ones defending themselves. 18 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: He said, you have convicted an innocent man. 19 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: Today we're in Choultna, Alaska, for the conclusion of the 20 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 2: Mountain in Man Murders. I'm slung Glass and this is 21 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: American homicide. Just to note that this episode contains some 22 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 2: graphic content. Please take care while. 23 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 3: Listening murders in cities and towns, you know that happen 24 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 3: all the time, but a double murder in the middle 25 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 3: of the wilderness is unique. It's different. 26 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 2: Maybe you've seen those videos where women of all ages 27 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: are asked the same question, if. 28 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 4: You were stranded in the woods, would you rather be 29 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 4: stranded with a random man or random bear? 30 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 2: The answers were overwhelmingly one sided. 31 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 4: And ninety percent of females are choosing to be stranded 32 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 4: with the random bear over a random man. 33 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 3: I don't think there's anything scarier in the wilderness than 34 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 3: a human out to kill someone. 35 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: Robin Bearfield authored Murder and Mystery in the Last Frontier, 36 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 2: a book about true crime in Alaska. Her book covers 37 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 2: the murders of husband and wife Rick Berry and Debbie 38 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: reehor over Memorial Day weekend in nineteen ninety seven. The 39 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 2: couple was murdered near their cabin in the remote woods 40 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: of Chulitna, Alaska. 41 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 3: Chu Litina is not a town, but it's a designated 42 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 3: wilderness area. Most people who live in the wilderness are 43 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,839 Speaker 3: prepared to run into bears or angry moose or other 44 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 3: animals that you need to watch out for, and you 45 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 3: don't expect to run into a murderer in the Alaska wilderness. 46 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 3: So I think that's one of the reasons that made 47 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 3: this story such a big deal. 48 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: Located miles from the nearest road and an hour from 49 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 2: the closest town, Chulitna is as off the grid as 50 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: you can get. 51 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 3: People who live in the wilderness they do so because 52 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 3: they want to be independent, They want to live on 53 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 3: their own. They enjoy that freedom. So you're on your 54 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: own much more up here, and it's frightening when you realize. 55 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 2: That at the time, there were only a dozen or 56 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: so cabins in the area where Rick and Debbie lived. 57 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 3: In Alaska, neighbors are important, you know. It's you want 58 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 3: people to live close enough to you so that you 59 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 3: can help each other if you have a problem. 60 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 2: Rick and Debbie's nearest neighbor lived about a mile away. 61 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 2: His name was Paul Stavignord. 62 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 3: Paul was a year round resident that was his home 63 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 3: while Rick and Debbie came and went. 64 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 2: At the time, Paul Stavignort was forty six years old. 65 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: He had long hair, a thick, bushy beard, and wore 66 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: around wire rimmed glasses. Years earlier, Paul hurt his back 67 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: working for the railroad. That injury forced him to quit 68 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: his job. That's when he started making artwork, playing the 69 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: flute and living and off the grid mountain man lifestyle. 70 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 3: And sometimes people living in a wilderness setting. Look at 71 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 3: the people who come and go like that as outsiders, 72 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 3: you know, they don't appreciate him, They resent them, And 73 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 3: I think that probably was part of the problem with 74 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 3: his relationship with Brick and Debbie. They suspected he stole 75 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 3: things from their cabin and he seemed to have a 76 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 3: real problem with them. Rick and Debbie's family knew this. 77 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: Rick Anddebbie talked about it quite a bit. 78 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 2: Paul was the lead suspect in Rick and Debbie's murder. 79 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 2: Upon searching his property, they found a journal that detailed 80 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: an affair Paul was having with Debbie. So what was it? 81 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 2: Were they enemies or lovers? 82 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 3: His family and friends described him as a kind man 83 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 3: who was spiritual and was nonviolent. They did not believe 84 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 3: he could have killed two people. 85 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: Not only that, but Paul had an alibi for the 86 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 2: weekend Rick and Debbie were murdered. 87 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: He said he'd gone to Fairbanks for the weekend, and 88 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 3: he even gave them the names of restaurants where he stopped, 89 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 3: places where he stopped to get gased or stopped to 90 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 3: get snacks, but he did not have any receipts. 91 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 2: Paul explained that he didn't have any receipts because his 92 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: off the grid lifestyle meant he didn't have credit cards 93 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 2: or checking account He only paid in cash. 94 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 3: And when the troopers followed up, nobody remembered seeing him 95 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 3: at any of the places where he said he'd gone, 96 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: so his alibi did not hold up. 97 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 2: After the police asked for a sample of his DNA, 98 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: Paul Stavinyard went on the run and vanished into the wilderness. 99 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 3: The man hunt was a big deal and the troopers 100 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 3: threw a lot of resources at it. I know a 101 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 3: woman who had a cabin in Chulitn at the time, 102 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 3: and she said it was crazy up there after all 103 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 3: of this happened, because there were choppers flying overhead all 104 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 3: the time. She felt like she was in a war zone. 105 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 3: It was just crazy for a few weeks until they 106 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 3: finally found him. 107 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 2: After four weeks on the run, Paul Stavignord turned himself in, 108 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 2: but he wasn't alone. He had hired a lawyer and 109 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: explained to the police that something in his past caused 110 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: him to run unrelated to the murders of his neighbors. 111 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 5: He had had unfortunate experience with law enforcement prior to 112 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 5: this event. 113 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: That's Paul's friend Keith Beja. 114 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 5: Crusting policemen was probably not his first reaction, so. 115 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 2: Let's talk about why. Growing up, Paul struggled with drug 116 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: addiction and was expelled from high school. Over the course 117 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 2: of two years, he was arrested five times for breaking 118 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 2: into cabins, stealing a car, and other crimes. Author Robin 119 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: Bearfield explains. 120 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 3: Paul's biggest run in with the police was when he 121 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 3: was released from prison for a liquor store robbery. He 122 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 3: and his two friends decided to rob the First National 123 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 3: Bank of Anchorage and Seward. 124 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy one, Paul and two others pulled off 125 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 2: one of the biggest bank robberies in Alaska's history. 126 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 3: They stole one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. But they 127 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: weren't very good criminals. They hadn't really planned their getaway 128 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 3: very well, and they picked one of the worst places 129 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 3: in Alaska to try to escape from because it's not remote, 130 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 3: but there's only one road that goes into it. So 131 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 3: the police chief easily arrested him and sent him back 132 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 3: to prison. 133 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 2: Four years in prison was enough for Paul Stavignork to 134 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: make some changes. 135 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 3: He decided he wanted to turn his life around, and 136 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 3: he took a job with the Alaska Railroad inspecting the tracks. 137 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 3: Married a waitress for the railroad, and they had two children, 138 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 3: built a cabin in chew Litna. He loved the chew 139 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 3: Litna area, and Paul became very interesting respective He became 140 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 3: very spiritual, and he started to do art work. 141 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 2: That's when Paul adopted his sort of hippie lifestyle and 142 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 2: threw himself into the arts. 143 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 3: He carved flutes and he also became fairly skilled at 144 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 3: playing the flute, and he ended up recording three albums 145 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: of flute music. 146 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 2: But playing the flute didn't pay the bills. His wife 147 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 2: divorced him in the early nineteen nineties and told the 148 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: court Paul didn't support her emotionally or financially. She got 149 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 2: custody of their children and moved away. Paul remained in 150 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 2: chou Lenna. 151 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 3: There wasn't two sides to Paul Stabnard, the peaceful, calm 152 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 3: person that most people considered him now and then this 153 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 3: guy who couldn't stay out of trouble when he was younger. 154 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: Two sides of Paul Stavignyard. That's what lawyers would have 155 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: to argue over when he went on trial for the 156 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: murders of Rick Berry and Debbie Reehort. 157 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 6: Suddenly the trial wasn't about us proving that it was him. 158 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 6: It was he had a story to tell, and that 159 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 6: changes the complexion entirely. 160 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety eight, Paul Stavignord went on trial. He 161 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: was accused of killing his neighbors Rick Berry and Debbie 162 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: reehor Over the course of eight weeks, the jury heard 163 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 2: conflicting testimony from dozens of witnesses from both sides. Even 164 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 2: Gavin Saha, the man who camped near rick Berry's dead body, testified. 165 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 2: All of it left the jurors looking puzzled and confused 166 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: and wondering who the real Paul Stavinord was. 167 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: He went on the run pretty quickly when it became 168 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: obvious that he was the focus of their investigation, and 169 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: he was able to stay on the run for quite 170 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: a while. 171 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 2: Judge Eric Smith presided over the trial that had divided 172 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 2: the small Alaskan town. 173 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: It hit the community pretty hard. I think the circumstances 174 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: of it, the manner in which they were killed was 175 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: also pretty shocking, and I know that mister Stavangerd's supporters 176 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: were very affected by the whole story. They just couldn't 177 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: believe he did it. You always wonder what's come of 178 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: our community when something like this happens. 179 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 2: Prosecutors would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that 180 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 2: the soft spoken defendant was capable of murdering his neighbors, 181 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 2: but they were limited in what they could say. 182 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: We kept his criminal history out of the case, so 183 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: the jury didn't know about his criminal history. 184 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: The time Paul stole a car inadmissible, the time Paul 185 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: robbed a liquor store inadmissible, and the time Paul robbed 186 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: a bank also inadmissible. 187 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: I found that mister Stavangerord's criminal history, especially the armed 188 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: robbery and the escape, would tend to make the jury 189 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: think he was a criminal and therefore make him more 190 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: likely to have done what the state alleged he had done. 191 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: So prosecutors had to rely on DNA evidence found on 192 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 2: Debi rehor that pointed back to Paul Stavignort. 193 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: The autopsy on this Reheor's body revealed there was evidence 194 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 1: of sex. They found semen on her body, and they 195 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: did a DNA test. The DNA did match with what 196 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: was found on this rehor. 197 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 2: In their opening statement, the defense team surprised everyone when 198 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 2: they admitted Paul did shoot Rick Beery, but they said 199 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 2: he did not shoot Debbie Rehor, and they claimed the 200 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 2: sex between Debbie and Paul was consensual. 201 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 1: All of this caused the courtroom to stir mister Stavangeord. 202 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,239 Speaker 1: He and his attorneys didn't say much of anything publicly 203 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: until opening statements in the trial, so it was pretty dramatic. 204 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: The defense also called a half dozen witnesses who spoke 205 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 2: Paul Stavinords peaceful and spiritual demeanor. But first they spent 206 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 2: a lot of time attacking the character of one of 207 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: the victims, Rick Berry. 208 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: They painted a picture of mister Berry as a very difficult, arrogant, 209 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: angry man. 210 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 2: A handful of neighbors testified that Rick and Paul did 211 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 2: not like one another and that they often clashed. 212 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: One of the run ins had to do with mister 213 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: Berry believing that mister Stavangerd had taken some equipment from 214 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: their cabin and confronted Stavangerd about it. 215 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 2: The defense also called a half dozen witnesses who spoke 216 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: to Paul stavinorts peaceful and spiritual demeanor. 217 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: They did say that he had become this very mellow 218 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: mountain man, that he lived a simple life, and that 219 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: he was an artisan. He made this jewelry, and he 220 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: was a flute player and kind of a very new 221 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: agey kind of guy. 222 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 2: And then the defense pointed out that troopers found a 223 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 2: lot in Rick and Debbie's cabin, one they believe was 224 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 2: a gift from Paul. 225 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: They painted a picture of mister Stavangerd having very antagonistic 226 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: relationships with mister Berry, but a very good relationship with 227 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: miss Reehorr, And so they tried to persuade the jury 228 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: that it would be a natural thing under those circumstances 229 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: for miss Rehorn and mister Stavinger had to have this 230 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: sexual relationship. 231 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 2: On the stand, Paul Stavignor took several deep breaths and 232 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 2: spoke very slowly as he discussed how he cared for Debbie. 233 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: He's an articulate, intelligent man, and he was pretty calm 234 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: and collected on the stand. 235 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 2: He said that on the Friday before Memorial Day weekend 236 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety seven, he was out on a walk 237 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: and bumped into Debbie. 238 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: Mister Stavanger had claimed that he met miss Reehorr on 239 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: kind of a grassy knoll above the creek and they 240 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: had sex together, So the DNA match came from the 241 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: consensual sex that he claimed he had with miss Rehear. 242 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 2: But afterwards everything changed. 243 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: And I think he was playing his flute for her 244 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: when mister Berry showed up on his four wheeler and 245 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: got very upset and started shooting. 246 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: According to Paul Savignyorn's testimony, Rick Beery yelled, I'm going 247 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: to blow your head off, pulled out his gun and 248 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 2: fired at Paul. But Rick missed and struck and killed 249 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: his wife, Debbie. 250 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: He accidentally shot his wife in the head, and mister 251 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: stavangerd returned fire and shot mister Berry in the head. 252 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 6: He was shooting at me, and. 253 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 5: I believe that I was going to be killed. 254 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 2: That was the voice of Paul Savignorn on the witness 255 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 2: stand describing what happened. 256 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 6: It seems like an awful coincidence that she would actually 257 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 6: have been hit by a stray. 258 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 2: Bullet District Attorney Bill A. 259 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 6: Stell His scenario was that they were having can sensual sex. 260 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 6: That when they heard the approach of a four wheeler, 261 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 6: he stood up to see who it was, which one 262 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 6: wonders why would one stand up where somebody can see you, 263 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 6: And that Rick Barry saw him and shot at him 264 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 6: and accidentally killed Deborah, And that he shot Rick Berry 265 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 6: in self defense at some number of yards with a 266 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 6: cheap little twenty two pistol, standing there naked it was implausible. 267 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: During cross examination, Paul Stavignort said his story was so 268 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 2: outrageous that he didn't think anyone would believe him. 269 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 6: The details about his relationship were totally at odds with 270 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 6: everybody in Deborah's acquaintance, her family, her coworkers, her friends. 271 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 6: None of what he described was believable to them, that 272 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 6: she was behaved in that way. 273 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 2: Paul Stavignord testified that afterwards he felt sadness, terror, hopelessness, shame, guilt, 274 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 2: and remorse, so he panicked and said he got rid 275 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 2: of the evidence. He picked up bullet casings and burned 276 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 2: his clothes. Even with his bad back, he said he 277 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: managed to drag Debbie's body under some tree limbs. He 278 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 2: said Rick's bonnie had floated away to a deep hole 279 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 2: in a creek and that's where he left it. 280 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 6: His story was inconsistent with what he said. 281 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: First, Paul agreed and admitted he lied to troopers and 282 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: even to his friends. Here's more from Judge Eric Smith, 283 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: who presided over the trial. 284 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: Mister Stavanger lied a lot. The prosecution relied quite heavily, 285 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: and the fact that he. 286 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 2: Lied, Paul Stavanord said, one lie led to another, and 287 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: that's when he realized he was in too deep, and 288 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: in order to keep his story straight, he wrote down 289 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 2: what happened. 290 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: He had a journal, and in the part of the 291 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: journal he had written out notes, and it appeared it 292 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: was like he was writing down the story he was 293 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: going to tell the troopers about where he was and 294 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: what he did. 295 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 2: Durors had to decide who was the real Paul Stavignord, 296 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 2: a loner who snapped and killed his neighbors, Rick Bery 297 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 2: and Debbie Reehor or a peaceful flute plane mountain man 298 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 2: who killed Rick Bury in self defense. 299 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: It was a hotly contested case and there was a 300 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 1: lot of emotion running through it. 301 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 2: Judge Eric Smith presided over the case. 302 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: So the whole notion of mister Stavanger being this peaceful 303 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: guy and mister Barry this angry guy, was very essential 304 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: to their case. 305 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: Paul Stavinord testified that Rick Bery caught him having an 306 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 2: affair with his wife and then took out his gun 307 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 2: and fired at him, but the bullet hit Debbie by mistake. 308 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 2: Paul said he returned fire and killed Rick in self defense. 309 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: They played into this sort of mellow guy in the wilderness, 310 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: and the flute was a key piece of the picture 311 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: they painted. 312 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 2: According to Paul, he played his flute for Debbie just 313 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 2: before the two of them had sex, and that's when 314 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 2: things in the courtroom got even more weird. Paul's lawyer 315 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 2: asked the judge to allow Paul to play this song 316 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 2: he performed for Debbie. 317 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: So the flute playing would play into the effort they 318 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: were trying to make of him as a peaceful man, 319 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,719 Speaker 1: and they were certainly allowed to make that argument, just 320 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: as the defense was allowed, up to a point to 321 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: make the argument that mister Berry was a violent man 322 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: because it was a defense case. 323 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 2: Ultimately, none of the jurors got to hear Paul play 324 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 2: his flute, although he did have his courtroom performance. 325 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 1: I decided that that was of utterly no relevance to 326 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: the jury, but the attorney insisted that he played the 327 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: flute for the record. So at the end of the 328 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: trial day one day, I excuse the jury sent them 329 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: home and then had him play the flute. And I 330 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: will tell you he's a very He was really good. 331 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: He was really good. 332 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 2: Relatives of Rick and Debbie were furious that Paul was 333 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 2: allowed to play the flute. It probably felt really inconsequential 334 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 2: and performative, so they got up and walked out of 335 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 2: the courtroom. Meanwhile, Paul supporters sat and listened. 336 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 6: The environment was pence and the tension was palpable. 337 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 2: Assistant District Attorney Billi stee out. 338 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 6: The families of Rick Berry and Wi Rehorr were there 339 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 6: throughout and they were living through the nightmare. And on 340 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 6: the other side were the people that were there to 341 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 6: support stave in Geord because they believed in him. 342 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: During closing arguments, prosecutors admitted they didn't know the exact 343 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 2: reason why Paul Stavinord killed Debi rehor and Rick Berry, 344 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 2: but they were certain he did it. 345 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 6: He just decided that he was going to take things, 346 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 6: not just from Rick Berry's cabin, but take his wife, 347 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 6: take his life, and take everything he had. 348 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 2: After two long months, it was up to the jurists 349 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 2: to decide who the real Paul Stavinord was. 350 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 6: Well, you're always nervous because you have to prove a 351 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 6: case beyond a reasonable doubt. 352 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 2: And keep in mind, the jury never heard about Paul 353 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 2: Stavignort's previous crimes, including his nineteen seventy one bank heist. 354 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 6: They weren't familiar with the fact that he was a 355 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 6: bank robber, that he had had the violent passed. 356 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,959 Speaker 2: Three days passed before the jury handed Judge Eric Smith 357 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 2: their verdict. 358 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: Mister Stavangord was convicted of murdering the first degree for 359 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: killing mister Berry, and murder in the first degree for 360 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: killing this reehorror. 361 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 2: The jury found Paul Stavinord guilty on the two biggest charges, 362 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 2: but acquitted him of sexual assault. One of the jurors 363 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 2: told a local reporter that he found Paul Stavignord to 364 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 2: be evasive and unbelievable on the stand. On his sentencing day, 365 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 2: Paul Stavignord had the opportunity to address the court. 366 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: It was called the Right of elocution, and I was 367 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,239 Speaker 1: very curious what his allocution was going to be. So 368 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: when I asked him if he wanted to say anything, 369 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: he said, and I believe this is all. He said, 370 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: You have convicted an innocent man. I kind of expected, 371 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: given the nature of the tragedy, that he would have 372 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: shown some remorse or some sorrow or some recognition about 373 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 1: what an awful thing that had happened. And he didn't. 374 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: And I sentenced him to ninety nine years on each count. 375 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: And then I made those sentences consecutive. 376 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 2: The judge wanted to make sure Paul Savignard would never 377 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 2: experience freedom again. Even ninety nine years concurrently would make 378 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 2: that true. But Judge Smith wanted to make a point. 379 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 6: I don't think there was any other appropriate. 380 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 2: Sentence, Assistant Da Billistell. 381 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 6: I think there was a foregone conclusion that you would 382 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 6: get the maximum sentence on each count because it was 383 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 6: it was just malice, a forethought. I believe Judge Smith 384 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 6: in his remarks, made him very clear that they all 385 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 6: suffered and that the sentence should reflect that. 386 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 2: But this case didn't end there. 387 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 5: In my opinion, this is a travesty. 388 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: Of justice that suppost friend Keith Beja. 389 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 5: I read somewhere that the initial vote the jury was 390 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 5: nine to three, so there were some of the jurors 391 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 5: who weren't convinced that first degree murderer was the appropriate charge. 392 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 2: A local newspaper report backed up that story, but ultimately 393 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 2: the jury voted unanimously to convict Paul. However, the case 394 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 2: had a new development about the murder weapon, which could 395 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 2: change everything. 396 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 5: Well after the trial and the conviction, Paul went to 397 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 5: the judge with the allegation that he had used a rifle, 398 00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 5: not a pistol, to return fire. The prosecution focused on 399 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 5: this Jennings pistol, which incidentally is a low quality pistol, 400 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 5: as the murder weapon. Paul had told him he had 401 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 5: a rifle that day, the Marlin rifle. That was the 402 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 5: weapon that he returned fire with, not that junk pistol. 403 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 5: But the attorneys chose to have Paul testify that he 404 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 5: used the Jennings pistol, and he did against his better judgment. 405 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 2: In other words, Paul claimed he used a rifle to 406 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 2: shoot and kill Rick Berry, but as lawyer said, he 407 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 2: used a pistol. So which weapon was the murder weapon? 408 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 5: His attorneys, you know, gave him bad advice about testifying about. 409 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 2: His use of a pistol, making things even more confusing. 410 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 2: During the trial, the prosecutors argued the murder weapon still 411 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 2: had not been found. 412 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 5: None of that made any sense to me. 413 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 2: After his conviction, Paul Stavenord's attorney asked to withdraw from 414 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 2: the case. They cited a total breakdown in their attorney 415 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 2: client relationship. Then Paul petitioned the court for hearing where 416 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 2: he would tell the court where to find the rifle. 417 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 5: And he drew a diagram of where the rifle could 418 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 5: be recovered, and the diagram was given to the troopers. 419 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 5: The troopers went there and did recover the rifle. 420 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 2: All of that turned the case upside down and led 421 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 2: to more hearings. 422 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: After mister Stavangard was convicted, he made a claim that 423 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: he had been ineffectively assisted by his attorneys. 424 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 2: Judge Eric Smith listened as Paul attacked his defense team. 425 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: But simply mister Stavangard requested a new trial because he 426 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: argued that his attorneys made him lie. I had an 427 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: extended evidentiary hearing to determine whether, in fact, the attorneys 428 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: had provided an effective assistance of Council. 429 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,199 Speaker 2: Two years after Paul Stavignord was convicted, the two defense 430 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 2: attorneys who originally represented Paul stood in front of Judge Smith. 431 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 2: They defended themselves against allegations that they ignored evidence and 432 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 2: forced Paul to lie on the stand. His former lawyers 433 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 2: fought back and told Judge Smith they weren't the problem. 434 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 2: It was Paul's persistent dishonesty, and Paul's new lawyer wanted 435 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: a do over. 436 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: They filed a motion for new trial, arguing that his 437 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: attorneys had convinced him to make this story up, and 438 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: I denied that motion. I found that his attorneys had 439 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: done a fully adequate job. He had highly competent attorneys 440 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: at all stages, as both the two they representative initially 441 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: and then the Public Defender Agency when they took it over. 442 00:26:55,200 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 2: But still Judge Smith said his decision was a close call. Today, 443 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 2: Paul Stavignard remains in prison, and all these years later, 444 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 2: people still wonder what really happened over Memorial Day nineteen 445 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 2: ninety seven. Was Paul Stavigard a cold blooded murderer or 446 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 2: did the finding of that rifle mean an entirely different 447 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:26,959 Speaker 2: story had unfolded in the Woods. Here's Paul's friend, Keith Beha. 448 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 5: That appeal was denied, and that's the end of it. 449 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 5: What's happened has happened, and you know that can't be changed. 450 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 5: Paul's a friend, has been a friend, still is a friend. 451 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 5: I'd like to see him released, and if somehow that 452 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 5: could happen, I'd do everything I could to help him 453 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 5: get situated in a positive situation. 454 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 2: Here's author Robin Bearfield. 455 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,239 Speaker 3: Paul Stavinard is probably what people think of when they 456 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 3: think of a loner living in the Alaska wilderness. I 457 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 3: think it was a case of Paul Stavignord probably spending 458 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 3: too much time in the wilderness with his own thoughts, 459 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 3: and I think it was just a matter of him snapping. 460 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 3: And this would not be the first time or the 461 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 3: last time in Alaska that a loner snapped and started 462 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 3: killing people. 463 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 2: Next time on American Homicide, we'll share one of those 464 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 2: stories of a loner who terrorized another tiny Alaskan town. 465 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,719 Speaker 2: I'm slow Glass joined me as we head to Manly 466 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 2: Hot Springs for the case of Michael Silka. That's next 467 00:28:46,800 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 2: time on American Homicide. You can contact the American Homicide 468 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 2: Team by emailing us at American Homicide Pod at gmail 469 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 2: dot com. That's American Homicide Pod at gmail dot com. 470 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: American Homicide is hosted and written by me Sloane Glass 471 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 2: and is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of 472 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 2: Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show 473 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 2: is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Todd Gans. The 474 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 2: series is also written and produced by Todd Gans, with 475 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 2: additional writing by Ben Fetterman and Andrea Gunning. Our associate 476 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 2: producer is Kristin Melcurrie. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry 477 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 2: and Jessica Crimecheck. Audio editing, mixing and mastering by Nico Auruka. 478 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 2: American Homicide's theme song was composed by Oliver Baines of 479 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 2: Neuser Music Library provided by my Music. Follow American Homicide 480 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts, and please rate and review American Homicide. 481 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 2: Your five star review goes a long way towards helping 482 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 2: others find this show. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit 483 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.