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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Leftshut Podcast. My guest

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Speaker 1: today is John Combe of Cornerstone and Fader. You have

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Speaker 1: like a giant enterprise. How many different divisions do you have?

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Speaker 2: It's first of all, nice to be here, Bob, Thank

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Speaker 2: you so much for having me on. We actually run

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Speaker 2: two separate companies, but they have very many tentacles, so

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Speaker 2: I could take you through a little bit of what

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Speaker 2: we do. Cornerstone is our agency and it's focused on

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Speaker 2: helping brand build platforms, advertising strategy around music and culture,

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Speaker 2: and we work in that business for Converse, Nike, Coca Cola,

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Speaker 2: Major League Soccer, and our specialty is really and we're

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Speaker 2: twenty eight years old. Our specialty is really helping brands

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Speaker 2: understand how to connect to music and culture. And sometimes

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Speaker 2: that's creating full service advertising creative. Sometimes that's purely music

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Speaker 2: specific strategy. Sometimes that's experiential on how they interact with

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Speaker 2: festivals and things of that nature. And then we have

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Speaker 2: a media company called The Fader, and The Fader started

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Speaker 2: twenty five years ago and it is a music platform.

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Speaker 2: Started as a print magazine. We gave artists like Kanye

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Speaker 2: and Cardi B and Kendrick Lamar and Drake and the Strokes,

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Speaker 2: the White Stripes, some of their first covers, some of

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Speaker 2: their first coverage in the press, and we really grew

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Speaker 2: it into a full service media platform. We've got great

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Speaker 2: social channels. We do a lot online. We have about

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Speaker 2: three thousand pieces of unique video across all of our

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Speaker 2: different video channels. We built a festival called Fader for

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Speaker 2: it and then attached to that business. We've got a

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Speaker 2: film and TV division called Fader Films, and we have

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Speaker 2: a music division which is Fader Label. It's our management

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Speaker 2: company and our publishing company. So it's a lot of entities,

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Speaker 2: but they're all very tightly connected.

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Speaker 1: Other than you, does anybody work for Cornerstone and also

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Speaker 1: work for Fader or vice versa.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there is some crossover. We've got an amazing team

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Speaker 2: and there's a lot of synergies between the two. We

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Speaker 2: absolutely want to keep the purity of editorials separate from

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Speaker 2: what we do on the commercial side. But our incredible COO,

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Speaker 2: Anthony Holland, touches every piece of that business and he

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Speaker 2: is the guy that keeps all the trends running on time.

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Speaker 2: You know. We have our back end services like accounting, legal,

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Speaker 2: things of that nature. They work across all the entities.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of synergy by having so

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Speaker 2: many businesses. Robert English, who's been with us for twenty

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Speaker 2: five years, he's basically the de facto head of an

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Speaker 2: R across the entire entire company. So when we're looking

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Speaker 2: for music for a campaign, he is talking to all

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Speaker 2: the agencies and the managers and the labels. He's doing

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Speaker 2: the deals, and he'll do that for Fader, he'll do

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Speaker 2: that for Cornerstone, he'll do that across everything. And then

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Speaker 2: there's a music division which is headed up by a

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Speaker 2: young guy named Carson Oberg, who does an incredible job.

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Speaker 2: He oversees our management, he oversees the label team, he

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Speaker 2: oversees our publishing, so he's pretty much isolated in that world,

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Speaker 2: but he then gets to tap into some of those

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Speaker 2: back end resources to help power what we do on

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Speaker 2: the label side, so there is some crossover. It does

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Speaker 2: work really well together. When we explain this to people,

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Speaker 2: it's always overwhelming, and some people only know us by

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Speaker 2: one small segment of the company, and then others have

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Speaker 2: worked with us across the entire enterprise.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how many full time employees now.

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Speaker 2: We are currently at thirty five full time employees. It's

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Speaker 2: the leanness we've been in a long time. At our peak,

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Speaker 2: we were as many as one hundred and ten employees,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of that scale is dictated sometimes by

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Speaker 2: the number of brand clients we have or what we're

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Speaker 2: doing on the media side. Clearly, you know, after Covid

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Speaker 2: there were challenges with media and certain components of the business.

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Speaker 2: So we made a decision to operate the company on

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Speaker 2: a much leaner level, and it's worked out really well

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Speaker 2: because it's given us a chance to focus on the

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Speaker 2: revenue streams and the aspects of the business that are

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Speaker 2: doing the best.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and you oversee everything, is there? Anybody tell me?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So I oversee the entire company, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's really important we start our conversation just to give

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Speaker 2: you some background on my partner in our history. The

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Speaker 2: companies were founded in partnership between myself and Rob Stone. Sadly,

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Speaker 2: Rob passed away this summer. He not only has been

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Speaker 2: an incredible partner for the last twenty eight years, Rob

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Speaker 2: started the Cornerstone side of the business himself. The story

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Speaker 2: is that Rob and I grew up together. We've been

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Speaker 2: best friends since seventh grade. We discovered music together. Not

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Speaker 2: only were we, you know, great friends growing up having

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Speaker 2: so many amazing life experiences, our love and passion for

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Speaker 2: music started when we were kids in junior high school

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Speaker 2: all the way on up to high school. I remember

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Speaker 2: discovering hip hop listening to run DMC with Rob Stone

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Speaker 2: on cassette. I remember every big album that would come out.

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Speaker 2: We would drive around in his car and listen to

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Speaker 2: music and discovering not only hip hop, but you two

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Speaker 2: so much music. And the bonds of our friendship led

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Speaker 2: us to enter the music industry, and Rob and I

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Speaker 2: started together at SBK. We worked under Daniel Glass. Rob

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Speaker 2: was ahead of mixed show and dance promotion. His job

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Speaker 2: was to really work with all the different DJs around

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Speaker 2: the country. I was working in the field. I was working,

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Speaker 2: you know, as a local promotion rep in the Northeast.

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Speaker 2: I started in video promotion work my way into the field,

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Speaker 2: and we worked together there and the seeds for our

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Speaker 2: company were born out of all of those conversations, all

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Speaker 2: of the time we spent loving music, and you know,

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Speaker 2: we basically saw this rise as young people in the

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Speaker 2: music industry and learned so much from so many people.

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Speaker 2: I went and left SBKA, I went to Columbia Records.

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Speaker 2: Rob left and he went to work for Clive Davis

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Speaker 2: at Arista Records. And when our respective contracts were coming up,

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Speaker 2: we started talking about the plans to start our own company.

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Speaker 2: And Rob's deal expired first in nineteen ninety six, he

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Speaker 2: stepped out and left Arista. At Arista, his claim to

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Speaker 2: fame was he is the person who was big eas

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Speaker 2: uguest confidant. He spent his time at Arista breaking notorious big.

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Speaker 2: He traveled around the country with him, He got his

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Speaker 2: music played on the radio. He was really the liaison

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Speaker 2: between you know, bad Boy and Arista, and he really

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Speaker 2: established himself, you know, in the world of hip hop

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Speaker 2: through those times. I was working in alternative promotion for

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Speaker 2: Columbia at the time. So Rob left first in ninety

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Speaker 2: six when his contract expired, and the idea was we

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Speaker 2: were going to start a music marketing company, and Cornerstone

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Speaker 2: was initially a place for artists, managers and labels to

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Speaker 2: hire us directly to help supplement what the labels weren't

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Speaker 2: doing enough of for their artists. It was our ability

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Speaker 2: to get records played on the radio, our ability to

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Speaker 2: help build the right marketing plan, to build some resources

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Speaker 2: to promote artists on college campuses, and we were wildly successful.

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Speaker 2: So Rob started in ninety six. My contract expired a

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Speaker 2: year later. Rob Rob started the company out of Loud Records.

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Speaker 2: Steve Rifkin was a great mentor to Rob and to

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Speaker 2: both of us. He gave Rob off of space and

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Speaker 2: was a partner in the initial start of Cornerstone. And

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Speaker 2: Rob was able to work with Steve and the power

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Speaker 2: of Loud and all he was doing in the hip

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Speaker 2: hop world to really cement Cornerstone's early success in the

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Speaker 2: hip hop world. I left, I joined him and I

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Speaker 2: started doing the alternative side of the business, and we

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Speaker 2: were working for every major label. We were talking directly

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Speaker 2: to so many artists. What was amazing about that time

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Speaker 2: in Cornerstone was that a lot of artists they wanted

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Speaker 2: to talk to somebody outside of the label system. They

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Speaker 2: wanted to hear other people's opinions. So, you know, people

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Speaker 2: like labeled like bad Boy would have us coming to

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Speaker 2: the studio. We would go here Outcasts Records before even

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Speaker 2: Arista had heard some of the music. You know, people

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Speaker 2: like John Silva were asking us to come here Beck Music.

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Speaker 2: We were working so closely with the labels and the

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Speaker 2: artists that we were making an impact because we were

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Speaker 2: helping use our knowledge of what we learned in the

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Speaker 2: music industry to help them make better decisions and help

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Speaker 2: use our relationships to break artists. Slowly we started making

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Speaker 2: these tools, like we made a mixtape SERI like every

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Speaker 2: month we put out a mixtape. Then eventually all of

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Speaker 2: the access we had to music led to Fader. Fader

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Speaker 2: was our way of documenting all of this access we

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Speaker 2: had to music early and brands started getting their hands

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Speaker 2: on all these materials. The head of Sprite was a

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Speaker 2: guy named Darryl Cobb, and he called Rob and I

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Speaker 2: up and said, Hey, I don't know who you guys are,

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Speaker 2: but I've seen some of your materials and your work.

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Speaker 2: We're trying to revolutionize Sprite and embrace the culture of

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Speaker 2: hip hop to market Sprite, and we need someone to

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Speaker 2: help guide us. Would you guys come down to Atlanta

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Speaker 2: and sit with us and our agencies and our team

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Speaker 2: to tell us a little bit more about music. I

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Speaker 2: was reluctant. I was like, Ah, that's sellout shit, you know,

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Speaker 2: like that is you know, like we're about the music.

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Speaker 2: Rob was like, I think we should listen to this guy.

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Speaker 2: He's really smart. He's really opened my mind. So Rob

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Speaker 2: convinced both of us to go down there, and two

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Speaker 2: things happen. Number One, we realized that these guys cared

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Speaker 2: more about the music and the culture of the music

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Speaker 2: than the labels at the time, and they had such

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Speaker 2: enormous budgets compared to what we were working with within

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Speaker 2: music that not only could we be more successful and

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Speaker 2: make more money, they were willing to put more money

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Speaker 2: into the marketing of all these artists. And that's when

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Speaker 2: the light bulb for Rob and I went off and

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Speaker 2: we realized, like, holy shit, we can have the best

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Speaker 2: of both worlds. We can really consult some of the

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Speaker 2: most powerful brands in the world in how they market themselves.

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Speaker 2: And then we can take that money and that power

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Speaker 2: and really strengthen our ties to the artists, to the managers,

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Speaker 2: so we can do more for them, and we can

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Speaker 2: enhance what artists can do outside of their normal record

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Speaker 2: deals and put some more power on their hands. At

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Speaker 2: the same time, we're building Fader as a way of

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Speaker 2: documenting all of this access we have in culture. So

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Speaker 2: number one, you know we wouldn't I wouldn't be here,

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Speaker 2: My business wouldn't be here without the incredible legend of

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Speaker 2: Rob Stone, and it's it's just sad to have this

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Speaker 2: conversation without him. He Rob loved reading your work, Bob.

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Speaker 2: We would often talk about various things that you write about.

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Speaker 2: And I feel horrible that we're not doing this interview

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Speaker 2: together because we had an incredible friendship that we've experienced

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Speaker 2: so much, an incredible partnership with so much success, and

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Speaker 2: the fact that you know, I'm talking about these things

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Speaker 2: without him, it just still doesn't feel real to me.

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Speaker 2: He was such a special person with such an incredible

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Speaker 2: career and the impact he had on our company. What

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Speaker 2: we've done together is something that it just it feels

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Speaker 2: really surreal to be doing it without them. So that's

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Speaker 2: the long Paull story of how we got to where

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Speaker 2: we are with the business. But we are proudly record

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Speaker 2: industry people. We are proudly born and raised in that system.

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Speaker 2: And for all the flaws and things that we didn't

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Speaker 2: love that led us to want to start our own business,

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Speaker 2: there's so many things that we do love and it's

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Speaker 2: still an incredible business and it's the reason we're successful

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Speaker 2: coming up in that business. The things that we learned

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Speaker 2: in our respective jobs gave us the platform to build

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Speaker 2: what we have. And it's almost like we have operated

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Speaker 2: someone under the radar. You know, we're still very close

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Speaker 2: to so many people in that business, but we kind

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Speaker 2: of live in a parallel universe, slightly under the radar.

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Speaker 2: But music is still the thread, that's the DNA for

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Speaker 2: every aspect of our business.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just focusing on Rob for a minute. When did

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Speaker 1: you find out he was ill?

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Speaker 2: That he was ill in July of last summer, and

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Speaker 2: he kept his diagnosis very private. When we were kids,

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Speaker 2: Rob had cancer and was a survivor. He beat a

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Speaker 2: very serious case of Hodgkins and was incredible throughout that

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Speaker 2: journey when we were twenty and he's just he was

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Speaker 2: just a warrior as a person. And he got diagnosed

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Speaker 2: in July. He kept the diagnosis private, and I think

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Speaker 2: that's why so many of our friends and so many

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Speaker 2: in the industry were shocked. And he he just chose

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Speaker 2: to put the focus on his recovery and his family.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I was there along along with him

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Speaker 2: for the whole ride, and he and he faced it

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Speaker 2: and fought it bravely, and his hope was he was

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Speaker 2: going to continue to improve and let more people in

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Speaker 2: the circle. But unfortunately it just got out of control,

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Speaker 2: and you know, he lost the battle.

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Speaker 1: So who owns cornerstone in the theater today?

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Speaker 2: Right now? I own corners thrown out right with Rob's estate,

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Speaker 2: which will figure out the future of that.

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Speaker 3: And that includes your saying, that includes everything. Yes, let's

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Speaker 3: go back to the beginning. You guys are from where exactly?

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Speaker 2: We're from Long Island. So Rob and I were both

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Speaker 2: born in Brooklyn, and we grew up in Long Island,

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Speaker 2: went to junior high school and high school together.

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Speaker 1: And what did let's focus on you what did your

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Speaker 1: parents do for a living.

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Speaker 2: So my parents were in the retail business. Both of

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Speaker 2: our parents were hard working, you know, entrepreneurs. My dad

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Speaker 2: was in the leather goods business. He sold women's handbags

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Speaker 2: and accessories. He still does it at eighty four years

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Speaker 2: of age. And I worked in his business as a

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Speaker 2: kid and he's still working hard. Rob's dad was in

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Speaker 2: the trucking in warehouse business in Brooklyn, And we both

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Speaker 2: came from real working class families, and I think our

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Speaker 2: parents both instilled that work ethic and that hunger to

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Speaker 2: run our own businesses, you know in both of us,

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Speaker 2: and I think they both. They all had a real

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Speaker 2: effect on how we built this company.

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Speaker 1: And do you have siblings.

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Speaker 2: I do. I have a brother who lives in la

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Speaker 2: He runs a film and TV production company. He does

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Speaker 2: some work for us. He shoots some of our TV

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Speaker 2: commercials and content.

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Speaker 1: He's just one brother, one brother. Yeah, Okay, So you

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Speaker 1: graduate from high school, you end up going to Syracuse.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about that choice.

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Speaker 2: Syracuse was incredible. I went to Syracuse really not sure

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Speaker 2: what I was going to study. I was in the

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Speaker 2: new House program there. I was also a business major,

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Speaker 2: but it was in new House, which is their communications school.

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Speaker 2: I started to learn that there was really an industry

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Speaker 2: behind music. I loved music. I'm a horrible guitar player,

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Speaker 2: as I could see behind me, Bob I was in bands,

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Speaker 2: but I knew I had no chance in hell of

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Speaker 2: having any success as a musician. But what I realized

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Speaker 2: through some great friends in college, is that there was

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Speaker 2: a real industry behind the business. And I just loved

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Speaker 2: researching and learning what I could about the business. And

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Speaker 2: that school, as you probably know, had an unbelievable alumni

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Speaker 2: that comes from our business. You know, there was so

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Speaker 2: many generations. There was you know, the Rob Lights and

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Speaker 2: Phil Q and John Syke's generation that all came out

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Speaker 2: of Syracuse, and I always looked up to them and

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Speaker 2: studied their stories. And then you know, I was there

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Speaker 2: with an unbelievable cast of current players in the industry,

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Speaker 2: whether it was Joel Klayman, who was the former GM

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Speaker 2: of Columbia Records, or David Sadlow who runs Lama Vista

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Speaker 2: and was at Aristo, or Jacquelin Saturn at virgin and

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Speaker 2: Syracuse really gave me the platform to understand more about

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Speaker 2: the music industry and and and a lot of different

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Speaker 2: aspects of our business. And it's it's a really amazing

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Speaker 2: school in the sense that they connect you to the

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Speaker 2: people in the real world. You don't just learn and

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Speaker 2: you know, take a bunch of things that anybody can

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Speaker 2: learn from a book. They they've got this network where

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Speaker 2: they really do a good job of connecting to people,

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Speaker 2: to the to the outside world so they can learn

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Speaker 2: first time.

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Speaker 1: So how did you get connected such that you got

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Speaker 1: the job at SBK.

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Speaker 2: So I was lucky enough to meet Charles Koppleman. His

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Speaker 2: daughter had attended Syracuse. She was a friend, and I

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Speaker 2: was able to become one of their first campus reps

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Speaker 2: up at Syracuse. So I was marketing all of their

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Speaker 2: music in the Northeast.

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Speaker 1: Just to be This was when SBK was all already

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Speaker 1: a label.

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Speaker 2: This is when SBK was a publishing company. And then

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Speaker 2: it just got funding in this ridiculous, insane deal from

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Speaker 2: EMI to start a label on the master side, and

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Speaker 2: they had an unbelievab amount of funding. I went down

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Speaker 2: met them in person. I think I was a junior.

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Speaker 2: Really loved everybody I met there, and they gave me

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Speaker 2: a chance to intern over the summer and then be

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Speaker 2: a college rep on campus. And my job back then

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Speaker 2: was to hang posters of our artists, take inventory or

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Speaker 2: record stores, get artists played on the campus radio stations.

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Speaker 2: And I would go anywhere from the Albany region up

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Speaker 2: to Boston to cover stuff. And you know, SBK had

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Speaker 2: a very unique deal. They had a deal with EMI

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Speaker 2: that was based on gross revenue. So the idea was

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Speaker 2: for them to have as much success as possible, but

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Speaker 2: they didn't really have to worry about the bottom line.

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Speaker 2: They just wanted to gross as much revenue, so we

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Speaker 2: put out a lot of records. We were the home

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Speaker 2: of a lot of the big one hit wonders. Back

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Speaker 2: in those days, I worked on projects like Jesus Jones

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Speaker 2: and Wilson Phillips, and then as I when I graduated,

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Speaker 2: I went to work for them full time. The week

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Speaker 2: after I graduated, we had put out Vanilla Ice. That

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Speaker 2: summer arrested development. We had so many enormous artists, some

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Speaker 2: of them that really stuck around for one or two singles.

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Speaker 2: But it was an incredible time because they had this

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Speaker 2: unique deal where they were all about really trying to

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Speaker 2: rush and ramp up the success, and it was a

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Speaker 2: fun time in the music industry to be a young person.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I have to ask you. Know, at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of SBK, Monty was a regional promotion man and he

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Speaker 1: is arguably the most powerful and successful executive on the

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Speaker 1: recorded side of music today. Did you work with Monty?

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Speaker 2: I did?

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Speaker 1: What did you see? I mean, I knew Monty. It's

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Speaker 1: an amazing story. Did you see anything or were you surprised?

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Speaker 1: Give me your take.

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Speaker 2: Yes. First of all, I love Monty, so not only

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Speaker 2: before Monty was thrown in the field he started. I

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Speaker 2: believe he'll kill me if I got this wrong, but

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Speaker 2: I think he was Neil Lasher's assistant. When I was

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Speaker 2: an intern, I would help them out, and I believe

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Speaker 2: Monty's first role there might have been helping Neil Lasher

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Speaker 2: and then they quickly realized how smart he was and

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Speaker 2: they sent him down to Atlanta. I knew Monty, and

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Speaker 2: this sounds cliche. I knew he was going to be

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Speaker 2: a huge success back then because he did two things.

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Speaker 2: Number One, he outworked everyone, but he had this calm

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Speaker 2: for a young person around him. But what I loved

355
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Speaker 2: the most about Monty, and I subsequently got to know

356
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Speaker 2: Avery really well to his brother, who he started Republic with.

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Speaker 2: What I loved about Monty is he was an A

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Speaker 2: and R guy. Even though they had him doing promotion,

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00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 2: Monty was always looking for what was going to be

360
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Speaker 2: next in music, and I really had this gut feeling

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Speaker 2: he was going to be a superstar, and for me

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Speaker 2: to have a front seat to watch him rise has

363
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,239
Speaker 2: been an honor. Both Rob and I were still are

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Speaker 2: very close with Monty. I love him to death, and

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Speaker 2: you know, he really had everything that you knew you

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Speaker 2: needed to succeed in our business, and for a young

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00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 2: person back then to really think beyond his role. You

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00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 2: could tell he was going places. And I was lucky,

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Speaker 2: like at the talent of the SPKA days, I got

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Speaker 2: to see those two start Republic and they worked out

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Speaker 2: of this I live in the Upper East Side of Manhattan.

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Speaker 2: They started the label out of this really small, one

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Speaker 2: bedroom apartment three blocks from where I am right now,

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Speaker 2: and it was just so much fun to go over

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Speaker 2: to see that these two guys quit in the middle

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Speaker 2: of their height of their career. They could have made

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Speaker 2: fortune continuing to work on the corporate record side, but

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Speaker 2: they both had the balls to step out and start

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Speaker 2: something entrepreneurial. And it was just so much fun when

380
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Speaker 2: I would go knock the door of their apartment and

381
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,399
Speaker 2: I'd see boxes of CDEs and they'd be shipping stuff

382
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Speaker 2: and they'd be running this business out of this really

383
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Speaker 2: small apartment and it you know, they gave Rob and

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Speaker 2: I a lot of confidence that, hey, you gotta be

385
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Speaker 2: gutsy and step away from what's safe to really make

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Speaker 2: an impact. So I have huge love and respect for Monty,

387
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Speaker 2: and you know, beyond Monty that the one thing that

388
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 2: Daniel doesn't get enough credit for is what a great

389
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Speaker 2: teacher he was. I mean, we had so many incredible

390
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Speaker 2: people that went on to big things in the music

391
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Speaker 2: industry that came under his tutelage of Charles and Marty too,

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Speaker 2: I mean they deserve tons of credit. I mean that

393
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Speaker 2: Trio had so many amazing people who are running such

394
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Speaker 2: big entities right now in our business that they deserve

395
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Speaker 2: a lot of credit for what they really started.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you started in video promotion. MTV was still very powerful.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about that.

398
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Speaker 2: So I was assisting Hillary shav at the time, who

399
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: was our head of video promotion, and our job was

400
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Speaker 2: to get our videos played on MTV. And and you know,

401
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,360
Speaker 2: you talk about this a lot, is you know what's

402
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 2: missing in our industry today? There aren't big mass drivers.

403
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Speaker 2: And back then, the reason why we broke so many

404
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 2: superstars was you had big drivers, and none bigger of

405
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 2: a driver was there than MTV. I mean the power

406
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Speaker 2: that MTV had. When you got a video and what

407
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 2: they call buzz bin back then, or a video into

408
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: any form of rotation, you saw instant success, and not

409
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 2: just a little success. You essentially knew you were going

410
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 2: to break the artists. So our job was not only

411
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Speaker 2: to submit our videos, but it was to figure to

412
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Speaker 2: build relationships with that team at MTV and really figure

413
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Speaker 2: out what what was an artist place and what was

414
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Speaker 2: the best way to establish that artist. And we were

415
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Speaker 2: very successful. I mean, labels, if you remember, spent so

416
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Speaker 2: much money Bob on on making videos and the level

417
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Speaker 2: of production, and MTV had such few slots. I mean,

418
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Speaker 2: it was so hard to crack MTV. But if I

419
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 2: think of the industry back then versus the industry today,

420
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Speaker 2: MTV was a vehicle that just meant so much, and

421
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Speaker 2: I sometimes think about imagine there was something like that

422
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 2: equivalent to that where you had the Taylor Swifts and

423
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,959
Speaker 2: the major pop stars of today have access to that.

424
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Speaker 2: I was thinking about that during the VMAs the other night,

425
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Speaker 2: and the VMA has felt slightly more relevant this year

426
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 2: than past. I mean, you probably have a better take

427
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: on it than I do. But that was our role.

428
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Speaker 2: Our role was not only to get our videos played,

429
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Speaker 2: but to find the right way to get artists on

430
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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty minutes or then Unplugged came later,

431
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: and then you had the VMAs were basically the equivalent,

432
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: if not bigger than the Grammys back then, so it

433
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 2: was a really good first experience for me to learn

434
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Speaker 2: the ropes of breaking artists, how.

435
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: Did you end up in the field and radio promotion.

436
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 2: So the next step was they needed bodies and people

437
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: to be out there, and I had built a really

438
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 2: good relationship with Daniel and Ken Lane, who is our

439
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 2: head of Top forty, and Neil l Asher, who I said

440
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 2: earlier out of Rock, and they felt that was a

441
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 2: good next step for me. I wanted to be more

442
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 2: of an A and R person or a marketer. I

443
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 2: didn't love the idea of promotion, but I knew it

444
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 2: was an important part of the business, and I felt

445
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 2: that it was a chance for me to work closely

446
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: with artists. I really cherished that part of my job

447
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 2: and working closely with artists. So they sent me to

448
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: the field and I was responsible for getting our records

449
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 2: played on stations like WBCN. And one of my claim

450
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: to fames in my career is this young new British

451
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: act was flying in to come to America for the

452
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: first time and they sent me to the airport. I'm like,

453
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 2: very new to the job. I'm literally on the job.

454
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 2: A couple months, not even and I go to pick

455
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 2: up this band called Blur, and I pile them with

456
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: all their gear into my car and I drive them

457
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: to WBCN and it's Damon and Graham and the whole

458
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 2: band and their tour manager and we go. We do

459
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 2: a great interview on WBCN. They do this great acoustic performance,

460
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 2: and we're leaving WBCN and it's pouring rain now and

461
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 2: I'm at a red light six weeks maybe into the job,

462
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 2: and it's my first big thing that the label's having

463
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 2: me to do. And Daniel nervous, He's like, how's it going?

464
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 2: Is it going all right? Like this is really important?

465
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 2: And I'm at a red light and a car skids

466
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 2: from behind me, hits my car. We get into a

467
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: total car wreck with Blur in the back and I

468
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 2: look over. I'm like, holy shit, I hope these guys

469
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 2: are okay, And thankfully they all start cracking up and

470
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: laughing at the whole situation. We get out of the car,

471
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: I get their gear, we go to their gear. Everything

472
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 2: goes well, and luckily, the next day WBCN adds the

473
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 2: first Blur record. But for a minute, my short lived

474
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 2: career in the field could have ended very quickly, and

475
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: I'm proud to say that I'm still you know, Dave,

476
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 2: I consider Damon one of my best friends in the

477
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 2: world to this day, and you know, from that minute

478
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 2: it was it was an example that I made the

479
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: right decision because it put me in the field and

480
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 2: allowed me to get close to so many amazing artists

481
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 2: and be part of so many moments. And I really

482
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: learned a lot from from being out in the field

483
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 2: and learning, you know, how to break artists. You know,

484
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: I think the lost art is it's not just getting

485
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: your records played on the radio. You're a part of

486
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 2: what happens live. You're a part of, you know, having

487
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: a relationship with the local press. Your job when you're

488
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 2: in that job, and it's sad that this role doesn't

489
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 2: really exist in today's record business. Your job is to

490
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 2: connect that band, those artists to everything possible on a

491
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 2: local level. And it's really changed a lot since then.

492
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 2: I still think there is an importance to that mentality,

493
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 2: but it's kind of gone from our business. Everything's so centralized.

494
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: Okay, you bear no specific responsibility, but Blur was gigantic

495
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: in the UK, blowing up the same time as Oasis.

496
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: Oasis in America on Columbia was nowhere near as big

497
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,479
Speaker 1: as they were in the UK, but they did break.

498
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: Blur essentially never broke in America. Ultimately, Gorillas did. What

499
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: is your take why Blur didn't break in America?

500
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: You know, I think it was a really exciting tie

501
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: and that you know, I'm very passionate about the UK

502
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 2: and British music and it's been a big part of

503
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 2: my career. And I think the difference between the bands

504
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 2: that have broken wide open and the bands that have it,

505
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: or the reason why Blur did have success in their

506
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: later years, they did sell out Medison Square Garden and

507
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: the reason that Gorilla has succeeded is because the band

508
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 2: that committed to touring and really doing laps around our

509
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: country are the ones who succeeded. Radio had succeeded because

510
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: they were a British band that really committed to doing

511
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: laps around America. Oasis did a fair level, a fair

512
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: amount of touring, you know, as chaotic as their world was,

513
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: and I was at the first Oasis gig in New York.

514
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 2: It was at Wetlands. I'll never forget it. I had

515
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: an SBK act actually opening and I stayed and watched them.

516
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 2: They put in the time and it's still the old

517
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: school fundamentals that are important today. It's touring and lure.

518
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: In those early years, they were frustrated with America. You know.

519
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: It was I worked with Suede when I was a Columbia,

520
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 2: another band that was so big. They could sell out

521
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: the two or huge arenas all over Europe, but when

522
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: it came to America, they could sell max Three four

523
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 2: thousand tickets. And I think the reason why the those

524
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: artists didn't break through in their early years, or the

525
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 2: reason why Blur didn't break through at the level, was

526
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 2: that touring commitment. They had success at home, and I

527
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 2: think they put in a little more time now. Damon too,

528
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: his credit started to fall in love with America. He

529
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 2: started to realize, Wow, this is an incredible place. He

530
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: took so much inspiration musically. He discovered hip hop himself,

531
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: which inspired Gorillas, and then when it came to Gorillas,

532
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 2: he really committed to putting in the time and touring

533
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 2: Gorillas and doing press and really spending more time here.

534
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: And I think that's a big part of the reason

535
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: why Oasis broke Blur didn't. But Gorillas did, and I

536
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 2: think that's a big reason what made those UK acts

537
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: stick around here and those that haven't.

538
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: Okay, how did you end up at Columbia and what

539
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: was that experience like?

540
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 2: So? I was brought to Columbia by a great friend

541
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 2: named John who was formerly an Electra. He was the

542
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: VP of artist development there and he was looking to

543
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: change up the way they market alternative music. Donnie Ironer

544
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: was the president. We had a great team there. I

545
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: worked with some real characters, Jerry Blair, Charlie Walk. It

546
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: was a lot of fun being there, and I worked

547
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: with possibly the greatest artist I ever worked with in

548
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: my career. And I was lucky enough to work at

549
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: Columbia with Jeff Buckley. And Jeff Buckley is was so

550
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: brilliant and so talented and and so troubled. I mean

551
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: he was you know, when you met him, you knew

552
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: he was. There was an inherent sadness or something that

553
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: just was eating at him. And I think that's part

554
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 2: of that was part of his success. But Columbia was

555
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 2: was the major leagues. It was. It was a hard

556
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: place to work. Donnie was brilliant, but relentless and really

557
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: tough and He pushed us really hard. And you know,

558
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: when you went to that lake and they're working major

559
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 2: stars like Aerosmith and Springsteen and Mariah, there was no

560
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: patience or tolerance for anything less than hitting a home

561
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 2: run on everything he did. And it was hard, it

562
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: was high pressure. But I got a lot out of

563
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: being there. I learned a ton and the fact that

564
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 2: I was able to work with Jeff Buckley changed my life.

565
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: I mean, that is something that I don't I don't

566
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: think enough artists study or know who he is. And

567
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: I think the sad circumstance of his death and the

568
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: shortness of his career, he just he isn't on a

569
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 2: lot of people's radars. And I don't know what with

570
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 2: your experience with Jeff Buckley, like we were able.

571
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: I was a fan of the father the album Happy Said.

572
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: I mean, Tim Buckley started out on one of Frank

573
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: Zappa's labels. He'd a lot of different things. But the

574
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: fact that his son, who really didn't grow up with him,

575
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: you know, I guess I'm not young enough to feel

576
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: that he's forgotten, because it still comes up in conversation

577
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: with people who were aware in that era. But staying

578
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,479
Speaker 1: with this how big a step was it emotionally and

579
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: how difficult or easy was it to jump to go

580
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: to work with Rob.

581
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 2: It's surprisingly it was easy. A lot of people said

582
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 2: that Rob and I were crazy. We were making really

583
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: good livings. We were in our mid twenties, doing really well,

584
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 2: on a really good path in the corporate music industry,

585
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: and a lot of our mentors and people said, hey,

586
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: you guys got to think through this, because you really

587
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 2: are both on a great track. And Rob stepped out first,

588
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: was doing well, not blowing it out to the point

589
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 2: where I was going to make the same living joining

590
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 2: him that I was at Columbia, and I had just

591
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: had a kid, so I had it added responsibility and

592
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: I had to make sure that I was making a move.

593
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: But both of us had this mentality that if it

594
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: didn't work out out, we were good at our jobs,

595
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 2: we probably would be able to step back in and

596
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: get a job in the corporate record industry again. And

597
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: I also didn't, you know, love working for anyone. I mean,

598
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: Donnie was a hard driving guy, Daniel was a hard

599
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: driving guy, and I think they both taught me well,

600
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: and I'm grateful for the time I had with them,

601
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 2: But They both made me realize, like, wow, I want

602
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 2: to be my own boss. I want to call the shots,

603
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 2: and there are very few people on our industry that

604
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 2: will put their money where their mouth is. And Rob

605
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: and I both did that and we never looked back.

606
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 2: We got lucky, but our mentality was if this fails,

607
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: we are both good at what we do, we'll find

608
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 2: our way back in. I was I think I was

609
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 2: twenty six or twenty seven when Rob and I partnered up.

610
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 2: He was twenty six when he broke out of Arista

611
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: or twenty maybe we were twenty five and twenty six.

612
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 2: I don't remember exactly, but somewhere in that range. So

613
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: you know, I was lucky to start early in the

614
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 2: record industry. I was eighteen or nineteen when I started,

615
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 2: you know, doing all that college work, and I had

616
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time there, so I had some

617
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 2: good relationships to build our business on. It wasn't like

618
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 2: I was a year into a career. I was still young,

619
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: but I had spent so much time that we had

620
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 2: a good base to start the business.

621
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about getting married and having a kid,

622
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: because you have another person involved in your married who

623
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: may or may not agree with your choices. Support you.

624
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: This is a twenty four to seven business. You get

625
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 1: a kid, you have to bring in the money. Tell

626
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: me about all that.

627
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: That was a lot of pressure. The amazing thing is

628
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: I have an incredible wife, Aaron Cohen, and I met

629
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 2: her at SBKA Records. She was Daniel Glasses as Distant

630
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: and I met her when she first started there. I

631
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 2: knew I was going to marry her. I just you know.

632
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: We had this incredible friendship and relationship at work, and

633
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 2: the best part of my job was I Hadtone at

634
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 2: one end of the hall, my best friend in the world,

635
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 2: and on the other end of the hall, I had

636
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: the woman that I was going to marry, and it

637
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: was a great time to have those two people there

638
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: on a personal level. Coming up in this exciting time

639
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 2: in the music industry was incredible. And I think one

640
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 2: of the things that really helped me start my business

641
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 2: and have the confidence is I had a wife who

642
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 2: came from the business and had a really good understanding

643
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 2: and she was very supportive. She was totally calm and

644
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: chill about what I was doing. And I think the

645
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 2: fact that she put in some time in our business

646
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: gave her an understanding that this was going to be okay.

647
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 2: And here we are twenty eight, twenty nine years into Cornerstone,

648
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: let alone my career. She has this amazing patience and

649
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 2: respect and love for what I do. You know, she

650
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: she'll come on the road with me. You know, she'll

651
00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 2: come to festival. She's she's not deep in it. She

652
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: she definitely only goes to what she likes. But she

653
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 2: has this understanding and respect and that gave me the

654
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 2: confidence that I can do it. But there was pressure.

655
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 2: I mean when you have a newborn. I got married

656
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 2: very young. I got married at twenty four years old,

657
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 2: and you know it wasn't a new relationship. But having

658
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 2: a new kid changes everything. And you know this, Bob,

659
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 2: I mean, you our business. You're out late at night,

660
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 2: and if you're if you're not out and you're not

661
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 2: in the scene, you are out of mind. You are

662
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 2: not in the mix. So the hardest part, and this

663
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: is why I love my kids so much, is that

664
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 2: I wasn't around as much as a young father. Because

665
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 2: here I am in my early twenties. I had my

666
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 2: son when I was like thirty, I think, or my

667
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 2: late twenties, and I am on the road I'm not around.

668
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: I have to go visit clients. I have to go

669
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 2: visit you know, artists. I am traveling, you know, to festivals.

670
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 2: And to my kid's credit, they I made up for

671
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 2: it as they got older and they learned to appreciate

672
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: what I did. And we're a very tight knit family.

673
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: And they had a real patience for me, because you're

674
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 2: trying to be a parent and do all the hard

675
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 2: things of parenthood, but you're also trying to be committed

676
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 2: to your business, and it's a very delicate balance, especially

677
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 2: as a young parent. And hopefully, you know, it all

678
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 2: worked out the way it should have, and they seem

679
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 2: like great kids and they're happy, and they have such

680
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 2: love for what I do. And my son actually works

681
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: in the music industry. He works for an agency called

682
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 2: well Or Media Agency where he does he helps run

683
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: live nations, TikTok and does a lot of social media

684
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 2: work within the business, so he has an appreciation for it.

685
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 2: And my daughter works for the Infatuation, which is the

686
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 2: food and restaurant, you know, content business, and you know

687
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 2: they've done really well, but you know, it was a

688
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 2: really big decision in terms of family and knowing that

689
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to be able to be around quite

690
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 2: as much as your typical parent.

691
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: Okay, what year do you go to work with Rob been?

692
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: How old are you exactly?

693
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 3: Then?

694
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: I think, if I'm remembering it correct, Rob stepped out

695
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: in June of ninety six. I resigned that September and

696
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 2: told them, hey, guys, I'm not going to renew my deal,

697
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 2: but I will stay here as long as you'd like.

698
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 2: So I told whoever, Jim Burris, I think I'm what

699
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 2: I told. And I three days later, I get a

700
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 2: call on a Sunday, We're going to send all your

701
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 2: stuff home. You don't need to come into work. And

702
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 2: they basically paid me out of my deal and just

703
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 2: you know, honored the deal and let me go. And

704
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 2: then Rob and I joined forces sometime in early ninety seven.

705
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 2: I believe I was twenty seven years old at the time.

706
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: Okay, when you go to work with Rob, what is

707
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: he doing? And what's the first thing you do?

708
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: So Rob is already working a lot of hip hop records.

709
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 2: He's getting hired directly by labels to help the marketing

710
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 2: of hip hop records. I am starting a companion business

711
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: in the alternative space. So my job is to get

712
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 2: all the major labels, the independent labels, the managers to realize, hey,

713
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: we are a resource to hire us one of the

714
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 2: first records. I think I got it. I don't remember

715
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 2: all the timelines on this stuff, so don't hold me

716
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 2: to all the specifics. It's a little big, but like

717
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 2: I remember Jeff quant It's calling me and saying, I

718
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 2: have this new band, Limp Biscuit, I want you to

719
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 2: hear it, and he played me Limp Biscuits, like, I

720
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 2: want to hire you to help us break this band,

721
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: Limp Biscuit. I remember Silva getting me involved in Beck Records.

722
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 2: I remember, you know, a lot of label people like

723
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 2: friends like Ross Apen hiring us for whatever Geffen was

724
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 2: working at the time, even Columbia. I mean, you know,

725
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: I ended up working for a lot of labels that

726
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: I was with, and we had a lot of success.

727
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,919
Speaker 2: I mean they wanted to hear not just They didn't

728
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 2: want just our relationships to help get people to support

729
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: their music. They wanted our opinion. How should we roll

730
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 2: this out? What do you think of this single? And

731
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 2: so Rob was building the hip hop side, I'm building

732
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 2: the alternative side. And then together we are brainstorming, Okay,

733
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 2: what tools can we create? How do we build some

734
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 2: new ways of marketing music. So we started the Cornerstone Mixtape.

735
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 2: Then we started what was called the Cornerstone Player. These

736
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 2: were compilations where obviously we live in a streaming world,

737
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 2: they're kind of irrelevant, but there were compilations where we

738
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 2: would get big name DJs to mix the best current music.

739
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 2: So we would get a young Mark Ronson, for example,

740
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 2: who we were friends with, who was a great, smart,

741
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: young kid New York DJ, and we would get him

742
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 2: to do a mix of whatever current songs. Or one

743
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 2: time we did a jay Z mixtape with Mark Ronson,

744
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 2: which I think you could find on eBay for like

745
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 2: a thousand dollars, where we would have Ronson great this compilation.

746
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 2: We'd get the rights from the labels to say, hey,

747
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 2: we can do it. We eventually even started selling those

748
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 2: opportunities for the labels to put music on these, and

749
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: we would send that mixtape out to like five thousand

750
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 2: people and every major DJ, hotel manager, restaurant gatekeeper that

751
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 2: could break music. We would want them to have our

752
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: mixtapes so they can hear what's next in music. On

753
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: the Alternative mixtape. One of the first songs that we

754
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 2: really broke that we were a big part of was

755
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 2: Coldplay Yellow. You know, like where Kevin Weatherley or Mark

756
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 2: Hamilton in Portland would hear some of the music on

757
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: our different mixtapes as a way to turn them onto

758
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 2: what was next, and then we would get a call

759
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 2: and say, hey, tell me a little bit about this band,

760
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,839
Speaker 2: and if we were working the record, we would help.

761
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: If not, we would connect them to the label so

762
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: they can get more information about what was on those mixtapes.

763
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: Okay, when you started, were you beating the bushes or

764
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: was it very soon people were calling you? And how

765
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: did you establish what the price was?

766
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 2: So we were charging a flat fee per project. We

767
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: set our pricing very expensive because our goal was we

768
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 2: didn't want to be like some of the other promotion

769
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 2: entities out there. We wanted to work for a handful

770
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 2: of the best artists and labels like we wanted to.

771
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 2: We said no to a lot of projects and we

772
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 2: were beating the bush just to introduce what we were doing.

773
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 2: But we had so many relationships and people we knew

774
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 2: that that came kind of easy. And then then it

775
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: was a lot of what's beautiful about our business. It

776
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: just became very inbound. We didn't have to chase people,

777
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 2: and Rob and I had the mentality that we wanted

778
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 2: to be expensive, and we wanted to work just a

779
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,320
Speaker 2: handful of projects at a time, and we wanted to

780
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 2: be involved for the long haul. We didn't want to

781
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 2: keep plugging and playing like if someone committed to a project.

782
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 2: If RCA wanted us to work this new bands, we

783
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 2: wanted to know that we were going to be a

784
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,720
Speaker 2: part of what they were doing to break food Fighters

785
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 2: for the long haul. So we would get hired by

786
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: Dave Gottlieb, who was the marketing person at the time,

787
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 2: and Ron Forr who was the promotion person at the time,

788
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 2: and Silva who was managing at the time. We'd be

789
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 2: working for all of those entities, and they'd be talking

790
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: us to us directly because they would want to know

791
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 2: the pulse of what we were getting back. And then

792
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 2: our job was to fill in the blanks and help

793
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 2: the label do all the things that they were already

794
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: doing and anything that they weren't doing. So it was

795
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 2: can you help us get on the radio? Who would MTV?

796
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 2: Do you know? Can you help us with can you

797
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 2: get in Lewis Largency here about this. Can you talk

798
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 2: to this? You know, who do you have in the

799
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 2: field that can talk to whatever retail they have managers

800
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 2: with are their DJs that can support this? That That

801
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 2: was the way. You know, That's something Daniel taught us

802
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 2: really well, is that you know, artists broke from so

803
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 2: many different directions. Even though I comment on having mass

804
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 2: drivers in the industry, and this is still true today

805
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 2: in today's business, is that artist development is the amalgamation.

806
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 2: It's the total of a lot of little arts. And

807
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: that's what I think Rob and I really excelled at

808
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 2: is we built the system of smart young people that

809
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: had their ear to the ground, that were plugged in

810
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 2: and we knew Rob and I had the relationships on

811
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: the math level. But then we had all these kids

812
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 2: around the country, around the world for that matter, that

813
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 2: knew who the cool kids were that could turn the

814
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 2: right people onto music. And I think that's why we

815
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 2: were successful in the early days of the promotion and

816
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: marketing business.

817
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: Okay, you said you were expensive, what was the price?

818
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: And you talk about all these people in the field,

819
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 1: were they on the payroll? And how many people were working.

820
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: So at that time, maybe we had ten people in

821
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 2: the company and I want to guess, and we had

822
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 2: a mixture department, a bunch of guys that just called

823
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 2: DJs all day long, and they would just ask DJs

824
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 2: what they like, what they're listening to, Hey, could you

825
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 2: listen to this? Could check this out? We had college reps.

826
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 2: So once we started Fader, which was in nineteen ninety nine,

827
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 2: to distribute Fader, we couldn't get magazine distribution. We had

828
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 2: no fucking clue what we were doing in the media business.

829
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 2: So we built our own infrastructure and to market Fader.

830
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 2: We built what we called the farm team, and these

831
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 2: are college reps. In every campus. We would hire one

832
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 2: or two kids at Columbus Ohio, a kid at NYU,

833
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 2: a kid at Syracuse, a kid in Michigan, a kid

834
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: in la and they would just give the Fader away

835
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: for free. You know, if they could get us on

836
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 2: a newstand, that would sell it great. But they're Our

837
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 2: mission to them was, We're going to send you one

838
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 2: hundred copies of Fader. Make sure one hundred of the

839
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 2: coolest people in that city get a copy of it.

840
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 2: And we started hiring those kids to do all the

841
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 2: more marketing in the field. They would hang up posters,

842
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 2: would they would give out twelve inches to local DJs.

843
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 2: They would drive the right people to see the artists

844
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 2: at early on, so they would know the local radio,

845
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 2: the local press, the freelance writers. Eventually, over time we

846
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 2: started moving into digital direction, so they would know all

847
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: the people that were doing the right things online. Years later,

848
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 2: but we basically were a full service artist development company,

849
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 2: and we would charge anywhere from ten grand to twenty

850
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars a month, pending how many of those

851
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 2: services you wanted and what kind of tools we were making,

852
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 2: and it started becoming really successful. But the key transition

853
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 2: is when the brand started calling us. Then that's when

854
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: everything switched, because then we could be really selective and

855
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 2: only pick the best of the best music and put

856
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 2: our focus on working some of the brand projects.

857
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,720
Speaker 1: What came first, the brands are the Faeder.

858
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 2: The brand stuff came first before or maybe just as

859
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: we're starting Fader. So companies started ninety six, you know,

860
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: I would say the first brand stuff started coming in

861
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 2: ninety eight, and then we started Fader in ninety nine,

862
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 2: and Coca Cola was the first big breakthrough on the

863
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 2: brand side. A few years later, we got to we

864
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: signed these crazy NDAs from a company called Microsoft, and

865
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 2: we were worried, like, these MDAs are crazy, what the

866
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 2: hell is this? And they made us fly out to

867
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 2: meet with them, and they told us about this secret

868
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 2: note new video game system called Xbox they were launching,

869
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 2: and they needed an agency to really help use music

870
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:49,919
Speaker 2: in college campuses to help establish it. They then came

871
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 2: to our offices. They realized that our whole company was

872
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 2: operating on Max, and they were appalled that we were

873
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 2: willing to take on the business. And they said, hey,

874
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 2: we're going to pay for this, but we need you

875
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 2: all to switch to MAX. And Rob and I said,

876
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: switched to switch to Windows. I'm sorry, switch switch to

877
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 2: Windows computers. And Rob and I said that's a non starter. Me.

878
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 2: Rob and Anthony, our CEO, said, hey, we want your business.

879
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 2: We are so excited about this video game system. I

880
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 2: don't even know if it was called Xbox, yet we

881
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 2: want to be in business with you. We're not willing

882
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 2: to change from you know, our MAX setup, which is

883
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 2: so key and inherent's our business. So we said no,

884
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 2: we call their bluff, and thankfully they still hired us

885
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 2: and uh, but yeah. So that's how the brand stuff

886
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 2: started evolving. And then you know, we were doing Nike work.

887
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 2: Nike started discovering what we're.

888
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:40,439
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait

889
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 1: a little bit slower. The first is Sprite, which is

890
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 1: a Coca Cola brand. You go for the meeting, go

891
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 1: for the meeting in Atlanta. What is the ultimate agreement?

892
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: Ultimate work?

893
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 2: The ultimate work is that they were building some campaigns

894
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 2: around right connected to hip hop. They had already done

895
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 2: something with five call quests that they were on the

896
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 2: right track, and they're like, we want to go bigger,

897
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 2: So they hired us to build this campaign. It was

898
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 2: called five Deadly Women, where they were using the culture

899
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 2: of martial arts and hip hop and we help them decide, Okay,

900
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 2: these are the radio stations and the media platforms where

901
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 2: we think you should spend your money. These are the

902
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 2: artists that you should lean towards. These are the different

903
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 2: ways to market this. So they hired us to consult

904
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 2: them and it was exploded. It was really successful. It

905
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,919
Speaker 2: led to us getting hired for this new energy drink

906
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 2: they were launching. They eventually hired us to work on

907
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: Coke Base brand, so it went from that one consulting

908
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 2: project to really working across the portfolio. And here we

909
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 2: are twenty eight years later, we're still work or twenty

910
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 2: six years later. Since then we're working for coke stuff.

911
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: Okay, so first come Coke. What is the next brand

912
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 1: and how do they come to you when you come

913
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: to them?

914
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 2: I think the next brand was this internet startup called

915
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 2: Boo dot Com. I don't know if you remember this.

916
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 2: It was like the first big internet retailer that was

917
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 2: a total bus but they spent like so many millions

918
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 2: of dollars. They hired us to consult on that launch.

919
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 2: From there, Nike hit us up. We started doing work.

920
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: For Okay, you're sitting in the office, you get an

921
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: email or a phone call. Hey, we're Nike, would like to.

922
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 2: Meet We We had started Fader and we actually this

923
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 2: was Rob the idea. It was brilliant. We had no

924
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 2: advertisers in the first couple issues of Fader, and Rob's like,

925
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 2: we've got to show that we have something going on.

926
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: We can't just put this magazine out without anything. And

927
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 2: we started cop photo copying and putting Nike ads in

928
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 2: our magazine and Nike's agency winding case and he said, Hey,

929
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 2: what the fuck, like, who told who said to run

930
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 2: this ad? Where did this ad come from? And we

931
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 2: kind of played dumb, and they knew that we were

932
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 2: taking ads, and we did that because we wanted to

933
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 2: show that Fader had some muscle and it was making

934
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: an impact. And the Nike people actually called us and

935
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 2: they reached out and we got a meeting with Nike

936
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 2: because they thought that they liked what they saw on Fader.

937
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 2: They thought it was a ball the interesting move that

938
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 2: we wanted to do it, and that led to us

939
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 2: having some early meetings and conversations with Nike and we

940
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 2: started doing some work for Nike Basketball. It eventually led

941
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 2: to us doing a campaign a few years later that

942
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 2: celebrated the twenty fifth anniversary of Air Force one. Air

943
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 2: Force one is Nike's iconic sneaker, and they put us

944
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 2: in a pitch where it was Cornerstone and Fader. We

945
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 2: consider ourselves one entity for that versus Widening, Kennedy and

946
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 2: all these other big agencies. And they briefed us, they say,

947
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 2: it's the twenty fifth anniversary of Air Force one. We

948
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 2: want to make history. We want to do something non traditional.

949
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 2: Here are the parameters here's the rough budget perimeters. And

950
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,839
Speaker 2: our idea was, don't do an advertising campaign, Let's make

951
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 2: an original song. And we went to Rick Rubin. I

952
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 2: called Rick, who we had covered in Fader, and luckily

953
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 2: he was cool and always was a bit of a

954
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: friend and listened to me. Rick Rick signed on to

955
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 2: produce a Air Force one twenty fifth anniversary track. Kanye

956
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 2: was the lead artist. We got Kanye on board, we

957
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 2: got KRS one, we got rock Kim, and then we

958
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 2: got Nas and we had the four of those artists

959
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 2: on a Rick Rubin produced track. The budgets were enormous

960
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 2: bomb I don't even remember the money. So we were

961
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 2: able to entice all these legends because we had good money.

962
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 2: They also had a lot of faith because they knew

963
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 2: us from the hip hop space, they knew us from

964
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 2: the years in the music industry. And Rick co wrote

965
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 2: the song with Kanye. They produced an incredible track. I'll

966
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 2: send you the link when we're done later so you

967
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 2: can check it out. And we got DJ Premier from

968
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 2: Gang Starter do a remix. And then we built a

969
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,720
Speaker 2: video and a whole platform around this campaign for Nike,

970
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 2: and instead of it being a TV commercial to celebrate

971
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 2: the twenty fifth anniversary of Air Force one. It was

972
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 2: a song that had a whole marketing campaign around the sneaker.

973
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:30,799
Speaker 2: We did an event in New York City. Not only

974
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 2: did all the artists come and perform, but Nike invited

975
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 2: every one of their marquee athletes that we worked with

976
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:41,760
Speaker 2: them to produce. And the earned media and the viral

977
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 2: nature of the song was so much more impactful than

978
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 2: any paid media that they could buy, and it was

979
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 2: an enormous success, and the pinnacle was we decided to

980
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 2: work with them to submit the song to the Grammys

981
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 2: and everyone's like, Ah, you're crazy, this will never do anything.

982
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 2: And it was the first time a brand campaign ever

983
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 2: got a Grammy nomination. And it didn't win, but it

984
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 2: was nominated for Best Hip Hop Performance that year. I

985
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 2: think it lost to another Kanye record, ironically, but it

986
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 2: was an example of the type of evolution of our

987
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 2: business and the way we could use our roots in

988
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:24,240
Speaker 2: music and our creativity to do things outside of music

989
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 2: to help brand really make history. And from those moments,

990
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 2: like those early moments, we were off to the races.

991
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 2: The floodgates open. Then a lot of people started wanting

992
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 2: to hear ideas and we started shedding the music work.

993
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 2: We said, you know what, we don't need to be

994
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,720
Speaker 2: a hired hand for music. Let's focus solely on using

995
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 2: our brand relationships and budgets and platform to do good

996
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 2: for music, to do really good creative things with artists.

997
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 2: And that's when the agency business really transformed to become

998
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 2: more of a full service ad agency.

999
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 1: Okay, what is the status of the agency today?

1000
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 2: Agency is still going strong. The agency business has changed

1001
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 2: quite a bit. Major League Soccer and one of our

1002
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 2: biggest clients, Coke, is still an enormous client. We help

1003
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 2: Coke with a lot of their music strategy. We help

1004
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 2: them negotiate their festival partnerships a bunch of years ago

1005
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 2: with Coachella and Lolla Clues and ACL and Live Nation AG.

1006
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 2: We help them with their talent selection and certain campaigns.

1007
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 2: You know, at Major League Soccer, we do all of

1008
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 2: their strategy in general advertising. So not only are we

1009
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: doing all the TV creative and the billboards and at

1010
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 2: a home you see, but like we help them with

1011
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 2: their All Star Game and their finals and not licensing

1012
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,359
Speaker 2: music for their campaigns. The you know, we help work

1013
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: with Apple, who's their media partner. And building and developing

1014
00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 2: and maintaining that relationship. But the agency business has changed

1015
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 2: a bit. Marketers are no longer anywhere near as brave

1016
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 2: as they were in the heyday of our company. You know,

1017
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 2: they are much more conservative and how they spend everything

1018
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 2: was so successful back in the day because brands operate

1019
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 2: good brands, not all brands. Brands operated on gut. Nike

1020
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 2: was a brave marketer. They didn't give a shit about

1021
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 2: what the metrics or the measurement or what the CPM

1022
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 2: value was. It was are we doing something that's going

1023
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 2: to change culture and lead culture. Now we live in

1024
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 2: a world where even Nike, the biggest brands in the world,

1025
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 2: are so measured and so conservative, and they're so you know,

1026
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 2: brands are so caught up in you know, are we

1027
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 2: getting maximum value? And I think it's hurting a lot

1028
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 2: of brands. I think, you know, the best most iconic

1029
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 2: brands in the world, the Apple, the Nikes, they always

1030
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 2: operated on gut. They were never guided on what the

1031
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 2: numbers said. And I think we live in such a

1032
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 2: measured world that, in my opinion, not just the agency business,

1033
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 2: the whole marketing business is really shattered and it's a

1034
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: reason you're seeing a lot of smaller, more niche brands

1035
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 2: rise because they're being a little braver and boulder, and

1036
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 2: a lot of young consumers don't lionize, you know, some

1037
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 2: of these big iconic brands the same way. The playing

1038
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 2: field is leveling, and it's because a lot of these brands,

1039
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 2: whether it's change in management or they're publicly traded companies

1040
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 2: with more pressure to maintain the stock price. I think

1041
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 2: they've lost their way, and I think I hope we're

1042
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 2: going to see a change for the better over the

1043
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 2: coming years where brands are going to get brave again,

1044
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 2: because right now, from my perspective, I believe the agency brand,

1045
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 2: you know side, it's just agencies can't do great work

1046
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: if they don't have the budgets and the support and

1047
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 2: the courage of brands. So I think that business has

1048
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 2: changed the lot.

1049
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: Okay, are you a full service agency? Most of this

1050
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: shit has moved online, but there's television, radio. If I

1051
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: go with you, you can service me across the board.

1052
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 2: We can in Major League Soccer, we play that role.

1053
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 2: Our wish is, you know, we want to we want

1054
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 2: to control as much as we can within reason. Our

1055
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 2: specialty is music, our specialty is creating non traditional platforms

1056
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 2: and ideas. But when it comes to a client that

1057
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 2: is really aligned with our thinking and they want the

1058
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 2: full service, like we have with Major League Soccer, we're

1059
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 2: all in and we've got a amazing pool of outside

1060
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 2: contributors that if a brand requires a specialty that we

1061
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 2: can find the resources. And we've got this amazing team

1062
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 2: of in house talent that knows how to keep building

1063
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 2: on what a brand needs. But I would say more

1064
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 2: often than not, our specialty is still going to be

1065
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 2: culture and music or so than being full service. Full

1066
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 2: service is a blessing and a curse. It can be

1067
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 2: very lucrative and very powerful, but it could also be

1068
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 2: so crippling because you have to hire so many people.

1069
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 2: You know, Like the biggest client we've ever had in

1070
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 2: the history of our company was Converse, which is the

1071
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 2: Nike owned sneaker brand, and at the peak of our

1072
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 2: Converse work, at one point we had fifty people working

1073
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 2: on the Converse business and we were doing incredible work.

1074
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 2: I mean work that I am so proud of, campaigns

1075
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 2: that are historical. But the problem is eventually there's a

1076
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 2: change in management and that goes away and then you

1077
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 2: have these amazing fifty people or you know, forty five

1078
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:44,439
Speaker 2: people or whoever's working on the business, and you don't

1079
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,959
Speaker 2: have the money to maintain the scale and the size

1080
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 2: of the staff. So you know, the blessing is you

1081
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,479
Speaker 2: ramp up, you build this enormous business, the billing's great,

1082
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 2: the level works great, and then eventually it all ends.

1083
01:00:56,200 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 2: So being full service is pricky. I think at our

1084
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 2: core we want to stay rooted in music and culture.

1085
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 2: But when we can grow with the company like we

1086
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 2: did Converse or our Major League soccer, of course we're

1087
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 2: all in to do it.

1088
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:21,960
Speaker 1: Okay, this is a business is consolidation. WPP owns a

1089
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,720
Speaker 1: lot of iconic brands. There are other bigger companies. Has

1090
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 1: anyone approached you about buying the Cornerstone Agency and do

1091
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 1: you have a philosophy about that, like we're never going

1092
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 1: to sell out, or if the price is right or

1093
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: we need certain controls.

1094
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have been approached constantly over the years, and

1095
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 2: you know, we've rob and I were always fiercely independent.

1096
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 2: It's not that we wouldn't sell or take on an investor.

1097
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 2: We are just so proud of our independence. It's been

1098
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 2: a blessing and a curse. The blessing is it enabled

1099
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 2: us to stay true to the music and culture and

1100
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 2: what we love and what we do, and stay true

1101
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 2: to our staff. The curse is when you go through

1102
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 2: tough times like a COVID or or you want to

1103
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 2: invest and grow a business, it's inefficient to grow certain

1104
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 2: divisions of the company out of the profits of another

1105
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 2: division of the company. And when you hit a COVID

1106
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 2: and big, you know, complicated, you know, life changing moments

1107
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 2: and a business, you know, it's sometimes is really nice

1108
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 2: to have a deep pocketed parent company. So yes, to

1109
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 2: answer your question, We've been approached a lot by a

1110
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 2: lot of the major agency. We've been approached by a

1111
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 2: lot of the big media players, and have had amazing

1112
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 2: conversations with so many great people in the music industry.

1113
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 2: We've even talked to a lot of the majors about

1114
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 2: becoming a division of some of the majors because our

1115
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 2: services could really help exploit that. And it's not that

1116
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 2: I'm opposed to doing a deal at at some point,

1117
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 2: but I think we want to stay true through our

1118
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 2: mission and we're just somewhat selective. What I don't love

1119
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 2: about some of the advertising holding companies is the types

1120
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 2: of deals they do. You're essentially borrowing your own money.

1121
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 2: Some of these deals are earnouts, where essentially you're just

1122
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:24,160
Speaker 2: getting multiple on your own success and in essence you're

1123
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 2: literally borrowing your future earnings to get a check up front.

1124
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 2: And I don't think that's the kind of deal that

1125
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 2: we would want to do. I think if we're ever

1126
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,440
Speaker 2: going to do something, I would want to do it

1127
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 2: with a great music player. You know, music is in

1128
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 2: the DNA and it's the through line and the threat

1129
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 2: of every aspect of the company, and the best partners

1130
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 2: for us out there would be someone that is really

1131
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 2: true to building something great or has been building something

1132
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 2: great music And it's you know, when you work twenty

1133
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 2: eight years and now when I'm in this weird position

1134
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 2: that I'm in sole control of the company, these are

1135
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 2: really hard decisions to make. And you know, we came close.

1136
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 2: We came close to private equity, we came close to

1137
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 2: selling to some major music players, and ultimately we just

1138
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 2: never pulled the trigger. But at some point I think

1139
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 2: we would do something. It's just got to be the

1140
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 2: right people. I think people, not the deal or what's

1141
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 2: going to guide who we do something with. It's got

1142
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 2: to be people that really share our vision and believe

1143
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 2: in music and believe in artists and believe in what

1144
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 2: we do. And that's kind of what I'm looking for

1145
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 2: in a potential partner.

1146
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to your earlier point about brands

1147
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 1: or gunshine. You mentioned that there's a change in regime.

1148
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: How much also is change in culture, cancelation culture, what's

1149
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 1: going on on x formally Twitter? How much has to

1150
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 1: do with the landscape as opposed to management.

1151
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 2: That affects everything. Sadly, of the riving force for us

1152
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 2: at a brand is always the CMO, the chief marketing officer,

1153
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 2: And I think that is just like you know, how

1154
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 2: the heads of labels eventually, you know, expire, and there's

1155
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 2: a change in management constantly in our in our side

1156
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 2: of the music industry, That's kind of how the marketing

1157
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 2: side works, except the timetables even shorter. You know, it's

1158
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 2: no different than an NFL football coach. There is just

1159
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 2: constant turnover. And usually when you get hired at these brands,

1160
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 2: your strength of the relationship and success is the partnership

1161
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:40,439
Speaker 2: you have with the CMO and his or her team

1162
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 2: on down. And that's really you know, usually when we

1163
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 2: change clients, it's because of a change in management. And

1164
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 2: what happens is you get in a great groove with

1165
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 2: whoever you're working with, and then teams change and that

1166
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 2: person wants to build and bring in their own team.

1167
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 2: But to your point about you know, the Internet and culture,

1168
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 2: everything that's out there that affects all these brands, I think, yes,

1169
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 2: that has made certain brands more conservative. I think brands

1170
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 2: are definitely more calculated because of the messaging out there.

1171
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 2: I think brands are a lot more thoughtful because they

1172
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:18,080
Speaker 2: want to manage public perception and they're really concerned. They're

1173
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 2: concerned that, hey, I'm building a ten million dollar campaign

1174
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 2: with an artist that God forbid this artist does something

1175
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 2: wrong or steps out of mound. We're liable, we have

1176
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 2: a lot at stake, And I think you're right. The

1177
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 2: Internet magnifies so many problems that I truly believe that

1178
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:40,040
Speaker 2: you know, that is what contributes to some of these

1179
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 2: brands being gunshy.

1180
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 1: Okay, this may be below your pay grade, but in

1181
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 1: terms of corporations in sponsorship now it used to be

1182
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 1: for long to all, we'll get to get a sponsor.

1183
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: Then the sponsors felt that they weren't getting value for money.

1184
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: I hear you, what is this status of brands being

1185
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: involved with individual acts, with tours, with festivals or really

1186
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 1: do they want to play on a much grander level

1187
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 1: that is opposed to tying themselves to one of.

1188
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 2: Those great question. You know. The reason why we were

1189
01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 2: successful with all of our cornerstone work and the reason

1190
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 2: why I think we're really important is when we do

1191
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 2: things with music, we don't want it to be transactional.

1192
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 2: And there's so many brands that have come out of

1193
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 2: the woodwork to spend money in music, whether it's sponsoring

1194
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 2: something or paying an artists, and it's when the partnership

1195
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 2: is truly about elevating the art or enhancing how that

1196
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 2: artist can make something for his or her fans. I

1197
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 2: think that's when the partnership succeeds. When the partnership is

1198
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 2: purely an exchange of money where you're paying a big

1199
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 2: name artist to endorse or support your product, it fails

1200
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 2: and it's just transactional and the artist is being pushed

1201
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 2: by the brand or the agency to check off all

1202
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 2: the contractual obligations, and the artists feel badgered by you know,

1203
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 2: having to shill or sell for for the brand they

1204
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 2: just took this enormous check from. And I think that's

1205
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 2: where a lot of these things fail. You Now, it's

1206
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 2: different in the festival, in the concert space because sometimes

1207
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 2: that's signage, or you're buying real estate, or you're buying

1208
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 2: you know, hospitality set up. But when it comes to

1209
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 2: an artist partnership, in my opinion, the most successful partnerships

1210
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:39,720
Speaker 2: is when the decision makers, not just the agency, not

1211
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,880
Speaker 2: just me and my team, but the actual CMO and

1212
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 2: the people at the brand get to sit with the

1213
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 2: artists and get to ask each other questions and look

1214
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 2: each other in the eye and say, hey, does this

1215
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 2: feel good to you? Is this a non starter for you?

1216
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 2: What's important to you? What's going to turn you off?

1217
01:08:55,880 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 2: That's when these partnerships succeed and they fail, and more

1218
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 2: so lately, they fail because it's just the monetary exchange.

1219
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:08,679
Speaker 2: And I don't blame artists or management for taking the money,

1220
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 2: but I do blame brands for not doing their due

1221
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 2: diligence and really taking the time to speak and get

1222
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 2: to know the artists as they do this. And I

1223
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 2: think it's a very delicate dance between a successful partnership

1224
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 2: and just the paid transaction. And the good news is

1225
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:29,040
Speaker 2: a lot of artists in our business have been able

1226
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 2: to succeed outside the economic downturn of aspects of the business.

1227
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 2: You know, there is non traditional money out there for

1228
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:40,240
Speaker 2: certain acts. The bad news is it really only affects

1229
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:45,280
Speaker 2: the upper middle to high tier of the industry. Developing

1230
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 2: artists just don't have as much opportunity on the brand side.

1231
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 2: There's just not as much out there because they just

1232
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 2: don't move the needle as much. So it's tricky.

1233
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:58,000
Speaker 1: Can you give me a specific example of the relationship

1234
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 1: with a brand and a music tea, a band, or

1235
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: an individual act that is not transactional that you think works.

1236
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 2: You know, we created a series for Converse called Three Artists,

1237
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 2: One Song, and Converse was celebrating their one hundredth anniversary.

1238
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 2: They did some research. Jeff Kottrell, who's the CMO, brilliant guy,

1239
01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 2: he was a gut guy. He was such a good

1240
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 2: mentor someone I learned so much from and really brilliant

1241
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:31,920
Speaker 2: market probably one of the Hall of Fame cmos out there.

1242
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 2: And he said he did some research and he found

1243
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,799
Speaker 2: that the one hundredth anniversary was spoke to old people.

1244
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:42,640
Speaker 2: You know, it didn't speak to kids. Kids didn't give

1245
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 2: a shit. But they needed to do something to at

1246
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 2: least celebrate the moment. So they came up with a

1247
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:55,760
Speaker 2: platform which connected music icons and influential icons that organically

1248
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:59,400
Speaker 2: wore a Converse by their feet. You ever see paper dolls,

1249
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 2: how they're out and their connected paper dolls are connected

1250
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:05,639
Speaker 2: by their hands. Well, they worked with anomally their creative interest.

1251
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 2: They created this platform to connect people by their feet.

1252
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 2: And our feeling was that's good. It's gonna be a

1253
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:14,799
Speaker 2: striking visual. And if you think about Converse, the Ramones

1254
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:20,680
Speaker 2: were Converse, Elvis wore Converse, Nwa were Converse. The Nirvana

1255
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 2: Kurt Cobain, you know, sadly died in Converse, and Converse

1256
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 2: has always been a music icon. And what we said

1257
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 2: to them is, guys, your DNA is music. If you

1258
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 2: think of Nike as the performance brand, your your your

1259
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 2: parent company. They own running and sports and golf and

1260
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 2: tennis blah blah blah. Converse owns music. You organically, the

1261
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 2: Strokes are wearing Converse in the height of their career,

1262
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 2: you're organically there. So they built this platform off of

1263
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 2: that insight to connect people as paper dolls from their feet,

1264
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 2: and we said, to celebrate this, we're going to build

1265
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 2: a platform, and to con versus credit, they gave us

1266
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 2: Sideenttle budgets. We're going to build a platform based on

1267
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:08,519
Speaker 2: the diversity of how much music embraces your brand. And

1268
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 2: we create a platform called Three Artists, One Song, and

1269
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 2: the idea was to bring three disparate artists that would

1270
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 2: never work together. Whereas my ninety examples the kings of

1271
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,800
Speaker 2: hip hop, this idea was, how do we bring three

1272
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 2: people that normally would never work together, where their labels

1273
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 2: would never have the budget to give them to do

1274
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:32,519
Speaker 2: something like this, and we would envision giving them budget

1275
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:35,679
Speaker 2: to make a music video that the industry couldn't afford

1276
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 2: to do anymore, and we would make a song collaboration

1277
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 2: with three disparate artists. The first one we did, we

1278
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 2: took Pharrell, We took Julian Casablancas from The Strokes at

1279
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 2: the height of the Strokes success, and we took Santy Gold,

1280
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:52,439
Speaker 2: who was at the time a really buzzing, you know,

1281
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,719
Speaker 2: great up and comer, and we had the three of them.

1282
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:58,599
Speaker 2: We had this happened in my office. I had Julian

1283
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:00,880
Speaker 2: and Farrell meet in my office for the first time.

1284
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:02,720
Speaker 2: They had a lot of mutual respect for each other,

1285
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:06,720
Speaker 2: didn't know that much about each other. And then subsequently

1286
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 2: Santy came and got to meet them as well, and

1287
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 2: they agreed. We paid them all for their participation, and

1288
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 2: they agreed to work on a collaboration and Forarrell and

1289
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:20,719
Speaker 2: Santi and Julian wrote the lyrics and the track. Forrell

1290
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 2: produced the track. Julian played some instruments on the track,

1291
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 2: so out at Santy, and then we made We gave

1292
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 2: them an enormous budget. I think the budget was like

1293
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 2: half a million dollars for a music video, this beautifully animated,

1294
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:38,520
Speaker 2: really cool music video. And instead of making a TV commercial,

1295
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,080
Speaker 2: Converse would cut segments of the music video and they

1296
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:44,519
Speaker 2: would run it during the VMA's. They would run it digitally.

1297
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 2: They would We made billboards of the three of them

1298
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:50,879
Speaker 2: connected by their feet, and we put these iconic images

1299
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 2: of Farrell and I'll send you all the stuff so

1300
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:55,280
Speaker 2: you can look at it after our call as well, Farrell,

1301
01:13:55,760 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 2: Julian and Santi. And it exploded because it blew people's mind.

1302
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 2: They're like number one. They're like, what the fuck are

1303
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 2: three of these artists coming together? How the hell did

1304
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 2: Converse pull this off? And to Converse's credit, it was

1305
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:11,799
Speaker 2: so successful they went on their gut. They then funded

1306
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 2: us to do it for eight more years, and every

1307
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,439
Speaker 2: single season when they had new product come out, we

1308
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 2: would do another three artist one song. We did one

1309
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 2: with Frank Ocean, which is one of the very few

1310
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 2: brand deals Frank's ever done, Dip Low and the two

1311
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:31,799
Speaker 2: surviving members of The Clash, Paul simmon In and Mick Jones,

1312
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,640
Speaker 2: and they all collaborated on a track which was incredible,

1313
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 2: and we made you know again the same image of

1314
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 2: all of those artists, and we put that on billboards

1315
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:45,679
Speaker 2: in Hiccadilly Circus and on Sunset Boulevard and in Times Square.

1316
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 2: So we were moving the needle where we looked the

1317
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 2: artists in the face and said, hey, what would you

1318
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:56,800
Speaker 2: want to do if you had almost endless budget and

1319
01:14:56,920 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 2: total creative control. And we did nine of them. We

1320
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:04,799
Speaker 2: did Kid Cutty, Rostam from Vampire Weekend and Best Coast.

1321
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 2: We did we did so I'll send you the list

1322
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:12,040
Speaker 2: of all of them. And we did Bernard Sumner from

1323
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 2: New Order and Hot Chip did one, and then we

1324
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 2: started doing them with regional appeal. We did an early

1325
01:15:19,200 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 2: version of a K pop one, you know, for just

1326
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 2: the Korean market. So that's an example of when you

1327
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 2: get people aligned creatively of what it could succeed. I'm

1328
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 2: trying to think of a failure example, but I don't

1329
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 2: have one on the spot for you, But there are

1330
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 2: a lot of those.

1331
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 1: These are creatively tens. Do these brands then say, you

1332
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:42,720
Speaker 1: know something like Coke, it's a giant company and these

1333
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 1: are image campaigns. Do these companies want to see a

1334
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:47,599
Speaker 1: direct impact on sales?

1335
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 2: They do, they don't. They have a patience. This is

1336
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:56,320
Speaker 2: not driven solely about hey, we run the spot, are

1337
01:15:56,320 --> 01:16:00,439
Speaker 2: we seeing product? They want to see a rye in

1338
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:03,719
Speaker 2: their brand heat, they want to see that they're being

1339
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:08,719
Speaker 2: organically spoken about in social media, They're being organically spoken

1340
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:14,719
Speaker 2: about in a lot of different you know press, lifestyle press,

1341
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:19,759
Speaker 2: and ultimately they do want to see a correlation to sales.

1342
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:22,879
Speaker 2: But I think what these campaigns do first and foremost

1343
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:28,240
Speaker 2: is they start getting their younger consumer excited and talking

1344
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 2: about the brand, and then the hope is eventually it

1345
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:34,719
Speaker 2: makes a sales connection. A lot of our stuff always

1346
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 2: has a retail call to action. So if we were

1347
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 2: doing these three artists one song collaborations, you would go

1348
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:44,599
Speaker 2: into a Journey's store in the mall, or you would

1349
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:47,280
Speaker 2: go into foot locker and then you would see that

1350
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:51,719
Speaker 2: display and you'd see a connection through the campaign in there.

1351
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 2: But the best marketers are again, they're not making the

1352
01:16:56,240 --> 01:17:00,200
Speaker 2: future success of these campaigns solely based on a scent

1353
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 2: rise in sales. When they do that, they don't allow

1354
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:05,640
Speaker 2: it the time to flourish. A lot of these campaigns

1355
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:12,200
Speaker 2: succeed because we repeated them. We did it consistently for five, six, seven, eight,

1356
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 2: nine years, and a lot of brands right now will

1357
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:17,760
Speaker 2: do these campaigns as a one off, but they don't

1358
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:20,520
Speaker 2: build any momentum. And if you don't build any momentum,

1359
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:24,320
Speaker 2: you're really not going to see the sales reaction. So yes,

1360
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:27,040
Speaker 2: there is a form of measurement eventually that's needed, but

1361
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:29,640
Speaker 2: it's not as black and white as hey, we need

1362
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:31,880
Speaker 2: to see a ten percent rise in sales or we're

1363
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:32,719
Speaker 2: not doing this again.

1364
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:45,639
Speaker 1: Okay, when you deal with acts, Eil Young famously wrote

1365
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 1: a song and won't take any money from people. He

1366
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:52,719
Speaker 1: still means something in today's marketplace. You can go back

1367
01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 1: and look at people who took the money. They don't

1368
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:58,799
Speaker 1: mean as much. The issue of credibility now in the business,

1369
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:01,920
Speaker 1: and a lot of these people are percent people say, oh,

1370
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 1: the customer doesn't care. You know, you can sell out,

1371
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:08,920
Speaker 1: it's no big deal. What is the status of the

1372
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:12,559
Speaker 1: impact on one of these clients, And would you say

1373
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:15,800
Speaker 1: every client there's a musician, there's a way to do

1374
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:18,720
Speaker 1: a brand deal. Or should certain acts still not do

1375
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 1: brand deals?

1376
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. I don't think it's a blanket,

1377
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:29,599
Speaker 2: black and white answer. I don't think the consumer cares

1378
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:32,000
Speaker 2: anywhere near as much as they used to, you know,

1379
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,559
Speaker 2: like back in the day, if Nirvana did a brand

1380
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 2: deal in the height of their success, I think it

1381
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,439
Speaker 2: would have been a complete failure and gone against everything

1382
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 2: they stand for. There are certain acts that I think

1383
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 2: have to tread slowly and take their time, But the

1384
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:52,040
Speaker 2: consumer is a lot more accepting, even embracing. I mean,

1385
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 2: we live in a social world where, especially in hip

1386
01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:59,440
Speaker 2: hop and certain genres, you know, the right brand association

1387
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:03,679
Speaker 2: really elevates an artist's status, you know, and it shows

1388
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 2: that you know, whether it's high fashion that embraces a

1389
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:09,679
Speaker 2: lot of music, you know, or the right car brand.

1390
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 2: There are situations where brands can elevate the consumer perception.

1391
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 2: I do think consumers are much more forgiving and accepting.

1392
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:21,559
Speaker 2: They're not as critical as maybe they were back in

1393
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:24,000
Speaker 2: the day. But there are certain artists that have to

1394
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:26,880
Speaker 2: have a high filter. You can't just take every check.

1395
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:31,559
Speaker 2: You know, I have approached I'm not going to name names,

1396
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 2: but I've talked to I've spoken with, you know, and

1397
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:38,799
Speaker 2: talked to some of the biggest superstars in the business

1398
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 2: on behalf of some of the biggest brands in the world,

1399
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:48,760
Speaker 2: and they have cited certain corporate policies and issues for

1400
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:50,720
Speaker 2: the reason that they're not going to work there. So

1401
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:54,360
Speaker 2: brands do artists have a very high filter. They have

1402
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:57,040
Speaker 2: a lot of social conscience. They're not just out for

1403
01:19:57,080 --> 01:20:00,280
Speaker 2: the biggest check. And I think the best artists will

1404
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:04,680
Speaker 2: always evaluate brand partnerships based on not just the finances,

1405
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:08,560
Speaker 2: but what is the best for them, their fans, and

1406
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:10,840
Speaker 2: how it's going to be perceived.

1407
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:15,679
Speaker 1: Okay, let's switch gears. Tell me about starting the Fader.

1408
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 2: So Fader started in the summer of nineteen ninety nine,

1409
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:24,720
Speaker 2: and it was a guy named Lee Harrison, who was

1410
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:27,919
Speaker 2: heading up a lot of marketing for Rob and I brilliant,

1411
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:31,080
Speaker 2: smart guy. I worked with him at Columbia. He was

1412
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:33,519
Speaker 2: the guy that came up with so many really great

1413
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:36,680
Speaker 2: ideas for us, and he was the young guy on

1414
01:20:36,720 --> 01:20:39,479
Speaker 2: our team that just always had his foot on the

1415
01:20:39,479 --> 01:20:43,440
Speaker 2: pulse of every great new artist, what was going on culturally.

1416
01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 2: And the idea was we were going to start Fader,

1417
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:52,160
Speaker 2: and a fader is the mixer. It's it's the way

1418
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:56,040
Speaker 2: that DJ blends records. So it's the way a DJ

1419
01:20:56,600 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 2: is going from one record to another record and on

1420
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:04,559
Speaker 2: the mixing console of his DJ gear. And the idea

1421
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 2: was to start a small, you know, publication focus on

1422
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 2: what's next in music, to turn the same people who

1423
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:14,920
Speaker 2: were giving those mixtapes to that I was describing, to

1424
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,919
Speaker 2: turn those people onto what's next in music, to document

1425
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:20,880
Speaker 2: the access we had to hearing all this early music

1426
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:25,400
Speaker 2: and using some really great photography, writing some great stories

1427
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:30,360
Speaker 2: to turn DJ's influencers just people that could help break artists.

1428
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:34,760
Speaker 2: And the first issue. Rob was the one who pushed us.

1429
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:36,640
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm so fucking sick of hearing of this

1430
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 2: idea we're getting in a room right now, and we're

1431
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:41,840
Speaker 2: making this thing. And it was a team of like

1432
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:45,120
Speaker 2: six or seven of us. Our CEO, Anthony Holland, was

1433
01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:47,439
Speaker 2: one of those one of those guys who just get

1434
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:49,280
Speaker 2: you come up with an idea, he figures out how

1435
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:53,160
Speaker 2: to do it. And Rob was the muscle and the

1436
01:21:53,240 --> 01:21:55,240
Speaker 2: energy to get us to all to stay in the

1437
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 2: office for a week straight and just figure it out.

1438
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 2: And Rob and I wrote a lot of the early

1439
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 2: pieces to get We hired some freelancers, We had some friends.

1440
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:06,960
Speaker 2: We had this incredible guy named Jonathan Manyon who was

1441
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:10,360
Speaker 2: an up and coming respected hip hop photographer, and he

1442
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:13,639
Speaker 2: came in and got the first few covers for us,

1443
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:18,040
Speaker 2: and Anthony hired some young designers that did the layout.

1444
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:21,519
Speaker 2: In designing, eventually we met a young guy named Jeff

1445
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:25,960
Speaker 2: Staple who has a very successful clothing company, big designer

1446
01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:30,400
Speaker 2: and in the clothing space and super successful entrepreneur. Jeff

1447
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:33,720
Speaker 2: Staple came in and became our first real designer to

1448
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:36,479
Speaker 2: help lay out the designs of all the early issues

1449
01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 2: of Fader, and we just scrapped together the ability to

1450
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:42,400
Speaker 2: make this magazine. The first one had funk Master Flex,

1451
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:44,920
Speaker 2: a big New York DJ from Hot ninety seven on

1452
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:47,680
Speaker 2: the cover and it was almost like a pamphlet. And

1453
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:52,720
Speaker 2: then the second one thanks to a great young girl

1454
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:55,679
Speaker 2: who worked for us for years, Sarah Nwkirk. She most

1455
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:58,599
Speaker 2: recently she manages Raging against the Machine now to this day.

1456
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:02,080
Speaker 2: But Sarah was able to get us Zach Dala Roche

1457
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 2: from Rage, Rob was able to get Run from Run

1458
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:08,240
Speaker 2: DMC and Premiere from Gangstar and we put the three

1459
01:23:08,280 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 2: of them on the cover of Fader. Again, here we

1460
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 2: are Bob men, melting genres, bringing really disparate genres together,

1461
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:17,880
Speaker 2: and we get the three of them to be on

1462
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:21,320
Speaker 2: the cover of Fader. And it was the caption the

1463
01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:25,519
Speaker 2: title on the cover was three Kings and people's heads

1464
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:28,280
Speaker 2: exploded when we put the three of them on the cover.

1465
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:31,719
Speaker 2: People started noticing, holy shit, what the hell is Fader?

1466
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:34,479
Speaker 2: Who's behind this? And how did they get those three

1467
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:38,360
Speaker 2: artists together on the cover. And from there it exploded

1468
01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:42,639
Speaker 2: because every young photographer saw that we were making Fader

1469
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 2: on this really heavy paper stock. We were breaking all

1470
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:50,360
Speaker 2: the rules. We were allowing young photographers, not the legends

1471
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:54,280
Speaker 2: have their first shot to shoot covers. We were giving

1472
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:57,479
Speaker 2: shots to artists that were really young in the evolution

1473
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 2: in their career, and we went from that Three King's

1474
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:03,920
Speaker 2: cover to getting Beck and D'Angelo together on a cover,

1475
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:06,080
Speaker 2: and then we had the idea that we were never

1476
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 2: going to sell the ad space on the back cover,

1477
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:10,519
Speaker 2: but we were always going to do two covers. So

1478
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:13,960
Speaker 2: the idea was, how do we take all of our

1479
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:18,719
Speaker 2: history and the alternative rock space, the dance electronics space,

1480
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:21,840
Speaker 2: and our history in the hip hop space and have

1481
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:27,479
Speaker 2: a truly diverse magazine that represented everything in culture. And

1482
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:30,680
Speaker 2: it was modeled after the Face like. We saw that

1483
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 2: the UK was doing things in magazines and media so

1484
01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 2: much better than the US. Spin and Rolling Stone at

1485
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 2: the time had gotten stale. They were moving in a

1486
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:43,439
Speaker 2: much more pop direction. And our whole mandate was, let's

1487
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:47,240
Speaker 2: break the rules, Let's start putting relatively unknown artists on

1488
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 2: these covers. Let's do two covers of every issue. And

1489
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:54,880
Speaker 2: it really exploded, and we went from selling the ads

1490
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:58,040
Speaker 2: ourselves and writing stuff to building a team and bringing

1491
01:24:58,040 --> 01:25:00,960
Speaker 2: in some expertise, and with every every issue it got

1492
01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:04,200
Speaker 2: bigger and bigger. The bet d'andelo issue led to us

1493
01:25:04,240 --> 01:25:07,679
Speaker 2: having outcasts on the cover. Outcast led to us having

1494
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:10,920
Speaker 2: thanks to the help of Paul Rosenberg, a young eminem

1495
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:13,200
Speaker 2: who was just starting out and putting EM and M

1496
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 2: on the cover. And then then the world started just

1497
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 2: noticing what we're doing, and everything was inbound. Everybody was

1498
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:24,639
Speaker 2: pitching us their ideas and stories. I think fader Though,

1499
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:28,760
Speaker 2: really came to life when we started doing events, and

1500
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:33,639
Speaker 2: when we started celebrating every issue with an issue release party.

1501
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:37,439
Speaker 2: It really started to all the right people, whether we

1502
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:39,559
Speaker 2: were in New York or la or London, all the

1503
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:42,839
Speaker 2: right people would come out and come to our parties

1504
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:47,120
Speaker 2: and our performances. We did an event in New York

1505
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:50,599
Speaker 2: in the Round. We got Red Striped the beer company

1506
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:53,439
Speaker 2: to give us some money and we had this virtually

1507
01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:56,800
Speaker 2: unknown artist named Mia play in the Round in New

1508
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 2: York City and it was her first New York City

1509
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 2: performance ever think and it was like moments like that

1510
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:08,040
Speaker 2: where everyone knew that we were playing a big role

1511
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:12,080
Speaker 2: in introducing new things in culture. We eventually would go

1512
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:15,800
Speaker 2: on to start fader Ford. Fader Fort was our festival

1513
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:20,760
Speaker 2: property that was almost like counter programming to different things

1514
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:22,720
Speaker 2: that would happen in a city. We did it in

1515
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:26,160
Speaker 2: New York City during CMJ or the VMAs. We did

1516
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:29,240
Speaker 2: it in Austin during south By Southwest, and it was

1517
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:32,920
Speaker 2: our way of bringing the editorial of Fader to life

1518
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:36,800
Speaker 2: in a physical sense. Fader Ford in Austin. It's one

1519
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:39,640
Speaker 2: of the first shows Amy Winehouse did down there. You know,

1520
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:41,880
Speaker 2: she did like a handful of shows. You know, she

1521
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:46,160
Speaker 2: chose to play our events as a young artist. Fader

1522
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:50,960
Speaker 2: Fort was the place where so many established and young

1523
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:53,720
Speaker 2: acts would come and perform, and they'd use Fader as

1524
01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:57,240
Speaker 2: a platform. We did events with. You know, Travis Scott

1525
01:26:57,240 --> 01:26:59,880
Speaker 2: played fader Ford at a at a very early stage

1526
01:26:59,880 --> 01:27:02,120
Speaker 2: of his career, both in New York and in Austin.

1527
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:05,479
Speaker 2: Eventually Kanye would headline Fader for It, Drake would headline

1528
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:09,160
Speaker 2: Fader for It. Bony Ver, a young nineteen seventy five,

1529
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:11,639
Speaker 2: open Fader for It when they were just starting out.

1530
01:27:11,720 --> 01:27:16,640
Speaker 2: So we built this editorial platform that was focused on

1531
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 2: telling the stories of who was next in music. And

1532
01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:21,280
Speaker 2: we're so proud of the artists that we were part of.

1533
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 2: Pharrell and Chad Hugo when they were the Neptunes were

1534
01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:28,280
Speaker 2: on the cover the White Stripes. But then we brought

1535
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:30,960
Speaker 2: it to life in a physical sense for creating our

1536
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:35,120
Speaker 2: own festival property, and it really exploded because we were

1537
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:36,160
Speaker 2: doing things differently.

1538
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 1: Okay, when you started the Fader, what were the goals?

1539
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:45,560
Speaker 1: Was there an economic goal, like this is a business?

1540
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:48,800
Speaker 1: Was it just spreading the word? What was the goal

1541
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:49,639
Speaker 1: at the advent?

1542
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:53,479
Speaker 2: The advent and the goal was to turn more people

1543
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:57,080
Speaker 2: onto new music. We felt there was a hole in

1544
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:00,200
Speaker 2: the media space in the US that nobody was talking

1545
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 2: about what's next in music anymore, you know, like I said,

1546
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:06,960
Speaker 2: spinning Rolling Stone, we're covering whatever. Mainstream pop stars they

1547
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:10,439
Speaker 2: were trying to become bigger, broader, and only the UK

1548
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:14,920
Speaker 2: publications were really digging in on new stuff. So the

1549
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:18,160
Speaker 2: goal was to create a vehicle, a tool to turn

1550
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:21,320
Speaker 2: people onto new music and culture, and that would help us.

1551
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:24,599
Speaker 2: It would help, you know, really just build a better

1552
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:28,000
Speaker 2: network of relationships that could help all the other aspects

1553
01:28:28,040 --> 01:28:30,840
Speaker 2: of the business. Eventually, Yes, we hoped to turn it

1554
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:34,400
Speaker 2: into a profitable business, but the Fader in its early

1555
01:28:34,439 --> 01:28:36,640
Speaker 2: years it lost money. I mean, we were lucky that

1556
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:38,880
Speaker 2: we had an agency and other businesses that we could

1557
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:41,640
Speaker 2: pour that money into funding the start of Fader. We

1558
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:45,600
Speaker 2: always wanted to keep a clear separation of church and

1559
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:48,880
Speaker 2: state between the agency and Fader, but they did help

1560
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 2: each other out. Fader opened up a lot of doors

1561
01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 2: for us to get a lot of meetings on the

1562
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:57,680
Speaker 2: agency side, and then Cornerstone got us the brand relationships

1563
01:28:57,720 --> 01:28:59,679
Speaker 2: where we could go to these brands and said, hey,

1564
01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:02,840
Speaker 2: help us meet your advertising people. We need your help

1565
01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:05,519
Speaker 2: to support this great new media property we're starting. So

1566
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:08,879
Speaker 2: both businesses did help each other out, and then probably

1567
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:11,920
Speaker 2: a couple of years in, we started becoming profitable and

1568
01:29:11,960 --> 01:29:13,920
Speaker 2: it became a great standalone business.

1569
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:16,960
Speaker 1: You know, we had so many magazines of going on

1570
01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:20,479
Speaker 1: a business or stopped in print. What was the history

1571
01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:23,839
Speaker 1: of Fader as the Internet came along? Uh?

1572
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:29,439
Speaker 2: It was the Internet was exciting our editorial team, you know,

1573
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:33,160
Speaker 2: really was discovering what was then known as blogging and

1574
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:36,800
Speaker 2: that world. And we hired this great young guy, Nick

1575
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:41,760
Speaker 2: Cash Dubbs, who is a Trax partner right now on

1576
01:29:41,960 --> 01:29:44,200
Speaker 2: more on the record side, but he was our initial

1577
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:46,519
Speaker 2: Fader dot com editor. We brought him on board. He

1578
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:49,360
Speaker 2: was running his own blog, and he and our editorial

1579
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:53,880
Speaker 2: team really built the first version of Fader dot com

1580
01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:57,400
Speaker 2: and it was really successful. You know, we started with

1581
01:29:57,439 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 2: writing our stories online. We never wanted to stop printing

1582
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:05,040
Speaker 2: the magazine and the Internet really was a great evolution

1583
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:07,519
Speaker 2: of Fader. It opened us up to so many worlds.

1584
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 2: Eventually we started spending more and more money on video

1585
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 2: and short form documentaries. We you know, really we're telling

1586
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 2: great stories both in a video sense. That would lead

1587
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:22,080
Speaker 2: to us starting some podcasts, you know. A couple of

1588
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:24,400
Speaker 2: years ago, during COVID, we started a partnership with Mark

1589
01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:27,400
Speaker 2: Ronson and we started a podcast with Mark we call

1590
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:31,880
Speaker 2: a Fader Uncovered, so in between him producing whatever massive album,

1591
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:35,559
Speaker 2: he would interview the who's who of icons and music.

1592
01:30:35,640 --> 01:30:38,400
Speaker 2: So we started using the podcasting platform. We still do

1593
01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:40,960
Speaker 2: a lot of social video obviously now everything is on

1594
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:45,679
Speaker 2: Instagram and TikTok. Unfortunately, we haven't printed the magazine since

1595
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:50,280
Speaker 2: COVID because it just doesn't make financial success, you know sense.

1596
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:54,519
Speaker 2: But we're we're really trying to reactivate print. I do

1597
01:30:54,640 --> 01:30:56,799
Speaker 2: want to bring it back and maybe do two issues

1598
01:30:56,840 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 2: a year. But the media business is true, and you know,

1599
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:03,200
Speaker 2: you and I were talking about this in in London

1600
01:31:03,240 --> 01:31:07,080
Speaker 2: a few months ago. The media business is so challenging.

1601
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:12,599
Speaker 2: Dollars have moved away from media, dollars are from from brands,

1602
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 2: are being spent again on social media and measured platforms.

1603
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:20,040
Speaker 2: And it's been a really really challenging period for Fader

1604
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:24,360
Speaker 2: and any media business. You know, it's it's as a business,

1605
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:28,320
Speaker 2: it's become really really hard to figure out what is

1606
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:31,800
Speaker 2: the path forward of media. And I think, you know,

1607
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 2: we're not alone. A lot of media properties are in

1608
01:31:35,160 --> 01:31:37,679
Speaker 2: this business. It's it's the film and TV world going

1609
01:31:37,680 --> 01:31:40,880
Speaker 2: through it, it's the it's the content business is going

1610
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:46,200
Speaker 2: through it. Every business in media is really in a struggle. Luckily,

1611
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:50,479
Speaker 2: we we really doubled down on Fader label and building

1612
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:54,559
Speaker 2: a whole music division, and that through through the success

1613
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:58,320
Speaker 2: of streaming, has been an enormously profitable business and been

1614
01:31:58,360 --> 01:32:01,320
Speaker 2: a really strong component. But the media business is something

1615
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:04,400
Speaker 2: that we're challenged with to figure out what is the

1616
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:07,080
Speaker 2: way forward. And we're experimenting with a lot of new

1617
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:09,880
Speaker 2: things on a lot of new approaches, but it is

1618
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:10,439
Speaker 2: not easy.

1619
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:13,439
Speaker 1: So tell me about the elements of the music division.

1620
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:19,639
Speaker 2: So music division started in the early two thousands because

1621
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:23,800
Speaker 2: a lot of artists that we met through Fader, New

1622
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:26,519
Speaker 2: Rob and I came from the music industry. They knew

1623
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:28,599
Speaker 2: we had a lot of expertise and they would ask

1624
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:31,280
Speaker 2: for our help and we didn't want to charge them.

1625
01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:34,400
Speaker 2: We didn't want to open up a music marketing division again.

1626
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:36,840
Speaker 2: So we said, you know what, we want to help

1627
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:40,040
Speaker 2: you guys. Let's become partners. We'll put up the money,

1628
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:43,080
Speaker 2: we'll do the work in the marketing, you'll be the artist,

1629
01:32:43,240 --> 01:32:46,240
Speaker 2: and we'll create what is now a pretty modern deal

1630
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:48,519
Speaker 2: structure that the whole industry is embrace. I'm not saying

1631
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:52,479
Speaker 2: we started it, but we wanted to be early to

1632
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:55,360
Speaker 2: create a true fifty to fifty partnership with artists. So

1633
01:32:55,800 --> 01:32:58,679
Speaker 2: we met tons of artists through Fader. They would always

1634
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:00,880
Speaker 2: be in our office, they always play us Munick. Some

1635
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:04,200
Speaker 2: were on majors, some were disenchanted with that system. They

1636
01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:07,200
Speaker 2: wanted options and help with their career. And it started

1637
01:33:07,200 --> 01:33:09,479
Speaker 2: with this brilliant artist who we still work with to

1638
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:13,839
Speaker 2: this day named Saul Williams, whose first record was produced

1639
01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:17,719
Speaker 2: by Rick Rubmin. Came out on Columbia on Rick Rubin's label,

1640
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:21,040
Speaker 2: and then we eventually signed him over to management and

1641
01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:24,200
Speaker 2: signed him to Fader label. We then got Trent Reznor

1642
01:33:24,240 --> 01:33:26,760
Speaker 2: to work with him on the second record. Saul was

1643
01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:29,240
Speaker 2: on tour with Trent and they made the album together

1644
01:33:29,920 --> 01:33:32,759
Speaker 2: and Saul's what really got us started, and from Saul,

1645
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:36,240
Speaker 2: we then signed this amazing duo named Matt and Kim.

1646
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:40,200
Speaker 2: They had an offer from Warners and Colombia, all the majors.

1647
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:42,920
Speaker 2: They just were an indie band all the way, and

1648
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:44,840
Speaker 2: we just fell in love with each other. They were

1649
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:50,559
Speaker 2: this brilliant duo who toured relentlessly and they had excellent music.

1650
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:54,080
Speaker 2: They had played me Daylight, which would become their career

1651
01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:56,920
Speaker 2: head and they were managed by Kevin Patrick, who to

1652
01:33:56,960 --> 01:33:59,519
Speaker 2: this day is a great friend who is an A

1653
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:01,800
Speaker 2: and R guy at Columbia who I worked with, and

1654
01:34:02,680 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 2: just a really smart, brilliant guy. And he always knew

1655
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:09,080
Speaker 2: that the major label system were going to eat them up,

1656
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:11,679
Speaker 2: and we partnered on that and our label just really

1657
01:34:11,720 --> 01:34:16,360
Speaker 2: started that way. It started organically was profitable, but as

1658
01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:21,160
Speaker 2: we entered the twenty ten to twenty fifteen era, it

1659
01:34:21,240 --> 01:34:23,840
Speaker 2: was a tough time to make money in the music business,

1660
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:28,000
Speaker 2: so we were very conservative about how we signed acts

1661
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:30,280
Speaker 2: and what we went after. And all of a sudden,

1662
01:34:30,360 --> 01:34:35,000
Speaker 2: we started looking at our catalog circa twenty sixteen seventeen,

1663
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:39,200
Speaker 2: and the revenue that we saw coming in from streaming

1664
01:34:40,360 --> 01:34:43,200
Speaker 2: was enormous. It started to really make sense. We had

1665
01:34:43,200 --> 01:34:47,200
Speaker 2: built this great catalog, and all of a sudden, the

1666
01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:50,960
Speaker 2: third small component of our business was becoming one of

1667
01:34:50,960 --> 01:34:54,360
Speaker 2: the most profitable and most efficient by virtue of the

1668
01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:57,040
Speaker 2: success of streaming. And it was at that point that

1669
01:34:57,080 --> 01:34:58,960
Speaker 2: we said we got to double down on this business

1670
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 2: and reinvest in it. And I met Carson Oberg who

1671
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:06,559
Speaker 2: was a young manager who's managing a few artists, and

1672
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:08,519
Speaker 2: we brought him in to head up the label. He

1673
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:12,280
Speaker 2: was in his early twenties and really really smart beyond

1674
01:35:12,280 --> 01:35:16,360
Speaker 2: his years and or in his mid twenties, and he, uh,

1675
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:20,200
Speaker 2: he really transformed the label. We we then I met Claro.

1676
01:35:20,520 --> 01:35:25,640
Speaker 2: We signed Claro, who you know, is an absolutely brilliant artist.

1677
01:35:25,880 --> 01:35:28,920
Speaker 2: We then parlayed the success of Claro and and and

1678
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:32,479
Speaker 2: grew the label roster from what was about six artists

1679
01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:36,160
Speaker 2: to about thirty five artists right now. We built a

1680
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:40,519
Speaker 2: publishing entity that goes through Cobalt. The label is solely

1681
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:43,680
Speaker 2: owned by us, but it's distributed by Virgin And then

1682
01:35:43,720 --> 01:35:46,960
Speaker 2: we have a management company that Carson heads up. And

1683
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:49,920
Speaker 2: we worked with this, you know, brilliant roster of artists.

1684
01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:53,240
Speaker 2: Dell water Gap is our biggest success on that side.

1685
01:35:54,360 --> 01:35:59,320
Speaker 2: He is an incredible artists, the hardest working artist I've

1686
01:35:59,360 --> 01:36:03,720
Speaker 2: ever seen in my thirty seven years of music. He

1687
01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:06,920
Speaker 2: is so committed to what he is. He is everything

1688
01:36:07,640 --> 01:36:12,040
Speaker 2: that an artist needs to do in today's climate. But

1689
01:36:12,600 --> 01:36:15,960
Speaker 2: it's a challenging business for independent labels and it's a

1690
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:19,480
Speaker 2: challenging business for young artists. We're doing really well with everything,

1691
01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:21,719
Speaker 2: but as you and I have talked about in the past,

1692
01:36:21,920 --> 01:36:25,519
Speaker 2: is it is so hard to break through in today's business.

1693
01:36:25,720 --> 01:36:28,880
Speaker 2: The opportunity is there for so many. The problem is

1694
01:36:29,360 --> 01:36:31,760
Speaker 2: to have real success and to make a living and

1695
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:35,639
Speaker 2: sustain for independent artists and independent labels, it's really challenging.

1696
01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:39,200
Speaker 2: And you know, by having a catalog, we're able to

1697
01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:42,120
Speaker 2: continue to invest in new artists and that's our mission.

1698
01:36:42,160 --> 01:36:46,120
Speaker 2: Our mandate with Fader Label is to sign career artists,

1699
01:36:46,160 --> 01:36:50,320
Speaker 2: whether it's to management or label, and really put in

1700
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:53,439
Speaker 2: the time to have a five to ten year plan

1701
01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:55,960
Speaker 2: or horizon. You know, I remember you and I talking

1702
01:36:55,960 --> 01:36:59,679
Speaker 2: about it. It's so many artists don't make it because

1703
01:36:59,720 --> 01:37:04,360
Speaker 2: they don't have the perseverance they they they just they

1704
01:37:04,439 --> 01:37:09,400
Speaker 2: can't either survive financially, which is difficult, or they just

1705
01:37:09,560 --> 01:37:13,240
Speaker 2: can't take the years of lack of progress. And it's

1706
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:16,040
Speaker 2: the name of the game for independent artists right now.

1707
01:37:16,160 --> 01:37:18,800
Speaker 2: It's it's you've got to be a great songwriter, you

1708
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:21,559
Speaker 2: got to tour like crazy, but most importantly, you've got

1709
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:23,960
Speaker 2: to have perseverance and time in the game. It's all

1710
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:28,960
Speaker 2: about how much time you know you're willing to put

1711
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:32,760
Speaker 2: to gradually establish your career. Now, yeah, some people do

1712
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:35,599
Speaker 2: get lucky, they have a TikTok hit, they have some moment,

1713
01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:39,360
Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, it takes artists

1714
01:37:39,479 --> 01:37:42,559
Speaker 2: a long time to establish themselves. And that's that's our

1715
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:44,800
Speaker 2: mentality of fat or Label is that we want to

1716
01:37:44,840 --> 01:37:48,040
Speaker 2: really partner with artists that want to stay in the

1717
01:37:48,040 --> 01:37:51,200
Speaker 2: game and our career artists. We're not looking to sign

1718
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:55,000
Speaker 2: quick hitting songs. You know, obviously if they come along,

1719
01:37:55,560 --> 01:37:58,839
Speaker 2: it's nice because it will fund the next wave of signings.

1720
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:01,960
Speaker 2: But our our rosters what we see as a bunch

1721
01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:03,040
Speaker 2: of career artists.

1722
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:07,160
Speaker 1: Okay, how many of your artists are both on the

1723
01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:09,439
Speaker 1: label and also managed.

1724
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:15,840
Speaker 2: There are four artists on the management roster, three of

1725
01:38:15,880 --> 01:38:18,559
Speaker 2: them we work with on the label side, Dell Water

1726
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:21,799
Speaker 2: Gap as signed to Mom and Pop. We don't force

1727
01:38:21,880 --> 01:38:25,040
Speaker 2: that issue at all. We use our label as an

1728
01:38:25,040 --> 01:38:27,920
Speaker 2: option and our publishing entity as an option if a

1729
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:31,400
Speaker 2: managed artist likes the control and wants it as a solution.

1730
01:38:32,080 --> 01:38:36,519
Speaker 2: We never commission the master side if we're managing them,

1731
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:40,479
Speaker 2: so we keep that revenue stream separate. And we also

1732
01:38:40,560 --> 01:38:42,800
Speaker 2: can control the type of deal structures. So as an

1733
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:45,479
Speaker 2: artist get bigger, if we build them on the label,

1734
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:47,800
Speaker 2: we then have the option to go sign to a

1735
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:52,920
Speaker 2: bigger label, another indie major if it's moreranted. So it

1736
01:38:52,960 --> 01:38:55,200
Speaker 2: gives us a lot of flexibility and I think where

1737
01:38:55,240 --> 01:38:59,040
Speaker 2: that used to be taboo in the business, I think

1738
01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:01,799
Speaker 2: you're seeing more and more or that artists and managers

1739
01:39:02,040 --> 01:39:05,559
Speaker 2: like the control. Doing everything under one roof enables you

1740
01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:08,280
Speaker 2: to call all the shots and makes the make the decisions.

1741
01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:12,439
Speaker 2: That's not taking anything away from you know. Partnering with

1742
01:39:12,520 --> 01:39:15,160
Speaker 2: another good label like Mom and Pop on the Dell

1743
01:39:15,200 --> 01:39:18,880
Speaker 2: water Gap side have been incredible partners. Love working with them.

1744
01:39:19,040 --> 01:39:23,120
Speaker 2: They're smart, they they spend money the right way and

1745
01:39:23,280 --> 01:39:28,719
Speaker 2: we'll invest heavily in our project and they work really hard.

1746
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:30,800
Speaker 2: So that's an example of where it works. Sometimes you

1747
01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:33,880
Speaker 2: go to a major it doesn't always work, or another

1748
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:36,920
Speaker 2: label it doesn't work, So we like the flex to

1749
01:39:37,000 --> 01:39:38,240
Speaker 2: have the ability to do both.

1750
01:39:46,360 --> 01:39:54,520
Speaker 1: Okay, is Fader label a farm team for the majors

1751
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:57,880
Speaker 1: or is it a competitor to the majors.

1752
01:39:58,479 --> 01:40:00,880
Speaker 2: I like to say it's a competitor. I do not

1753
01:40:01,080 --> 01:40:03,280
Speaker 2: want to do their bidding and their dirty work. And

1754
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:07,639
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes it fucking sucks being in our position, Bob,

1755
01:40:07,720 --> 01:40:10,960
Speaker 2: I don't have their budget. Claro is a great example.

1756
01:40:11,080 --> 01:40:14,840
Speaker 2: I don't you know. I don't have the ability to

1757
01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:19,360
Speaker 2: sign mega deals to keep some of these artists. And

1758
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:23,720
Speaker 2: we give these artists such fair deal structures where the

1759
01:40:23,840 --> 01:40:26,519
Speaker 2: reason we beat a lot of majors to sign them

1760
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:30,880
Speaker 2: is because our deal structure is very competitive. Unfortunately, that

1761
01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:34,280
Speaker 2: eventually puts you in a vulnerable position. And you know,

1762
01:40:34,520 --> 01:40:37,840
Speaker 2: when your deal structure is so artist friendly, you run

1763
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:41,040
Speaker 2: the risk of someone coming along with a bigger check

1764
01:40:41,160 --> 01:40:44,880
Speaker 2: and a bigger opportunity. So we do see ourselves as

1765
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:48,360
Speaker 2: competitors to the majors. Clearly, I don't have the catalog,

1766
01:40:49,160 --> 01:40:52,280
Speaker 2: or the budgets or the muscle that they have, but

1767
01:40:52,400 --> 01:40:57,240
Speaker 2: I do have an incredible young team who really live it,

1768
01:40:57,360 --> 01:40:59,760
Speaker 2: and they are so all of them are so good

1769
01:40:59,800 --> 01:41:02,320
Speaker 2: at their jobs, and they have such passion for what

1770
01:41:02,360 --> 01:41:05,040
Speaker 2: they do, and our artists work so closely with them,

1771
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:08,759
Speaker 2: and we have a label head who's a manager first,

1772
01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:10,920
Speaker 2: and when artists come to Fader label, even if we

1773
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:14,200
Speaker 2: don't manage them, we act as a second management team.

1774
01:41:14,280 --> 01:41:18,000
Speaker 2: We are there to supplement and help the existing management

1775
01:41:18,080 --> 01:41:21,280
Speaker 2: team on any aspect of the project. So, yes, we

1776
01:41:21,320 --> 01:41:26,000
Speaker 2: compete with the majors. And it's a really stricky business

1777
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:27,880
Speaker 2: for us because a lot of times, after we do

1778
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:30,960
Speaker 2: a couple albums we get an artist to the next level,

1779
01:41:31,200 --> 01:41:33,839
Speaker 2: we often do lose them because there's a big advance

1780
01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:37,760
Speaker 2: or something waiting. Occasionally they come back to us. We

1781
01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:41,280
Speaker 2: lost Matt and Kim to Harvest and Capital for an

1782
01:41:41,320 --> 01:41:45,280
Speaker 2: album and luckily, you know, after that didn't you know,

1783
01:41:45,400 --> 01:41:48,080
Speaker 2: hit the expectations they want. They came back. So occasionally

1784
01:41:48,120 --> 01:41:50,920
Speaker 2: that happens, and you know, we don't get bitter when

1785
01:41:51,000 --> 01:41:53,200
Speaker 2: we when we lose an artist or an artist moves on.

1786
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:57,120
Speaker 2: We actually set up our deals knowing that that inevitably

1787
01:41:57,280 --> 01:41:59,519
Speaker 2: can is going to happen to us. The hope is

1788
01:41:59,840 --> 01:42:03,040
Speaker 2: if we do our job really well, everybody wins they

1789
01:42:03,040 --> 01:42:04,160
Speaker 2: want to continue with us.

1790
01:42:04,360 --> 01:42:07,120
Speaker 1: Let's say I make a deal with you, you're going

1791
01:42:07,200 --> 01:42:10,080
Speaker 1: to give me fifty percent of the net? Am I

1792
01:42:10,120 --> 01:42:11,480
Speaker 1: going to own the album?

1793
01:42:12,560 --> 01:42:16,599
Speaker 2: We do license deals, so yes, eventually, when I am

1794
01:42:17,160 --> 01:42:22,120
Speaker 2: long gone, you are going to own your masters again.

1795
01:42:22,360 --> 01:42:25,920
Speaker 2: And we try to do long term license deals, but

1796
01:42:25,960 --> 01:42:29,559
Speaker 2: not they're not like ridiculous when it's not like the

1797
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:31,800
Speaker 2: artist is going to get it back when they're you know,

1798
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:37,640
Speaker 2: seventy years old. They're they're very fair license deals, and

1799
01:42:38,400 --> 01:42:41,240
Speaker 2: you know, we need to give ourselves enough runway to

1800
01:42:41,280 --> 01:42:44,320
Speaker 2: recoup and get ourselves in a position to make the

1801
01:42:44,360 --> 01:42:47,200
Speaker 2: money we invest. But the artists will own their masters

1802
01:42:47,240 --> 01:42:50,040
Speaker 2: with fate or label. We don't do perpetuity deals.

1803
01:42:50,520 --> 01:42:53,000
Speaker 1: Okay. We have a couple of examples Matt and Kim

1804
01:42:53,120 --> 01:42:56,120
Speaker 1: Claro who are on majors and came back. Yep. I

1805
01:42:56,160 --> 01:42:58,479
Speaker 1: don't want to focus on those specifically. I want to

1806
01:42:58,520 --> 01:43:01,720
Speaker 1: ask the question, if somebody comes to you and you

1807
01:43:01,920 --> 01:43:05,839
Speaker 1: are not the only option, they are talking to other people,

1808
01:43:06,400 --> 01:43:09,639
Speaker 1: what is the pitch for the Feeder label? Why should

1809
01:43:09,680 --> 01:43:10,640
Speaker 1: they sign with you?

1810
01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:16,400
Speaker 2: They should sign with us because we have all of

1811
01:43:16,439 --> 01:43:19,640
Speaker 2: the infrastructure of a big label, Because we run a

1812
01:43:19,760 --> 01:43:24,400
Speaker 2: very vast corporation. We understand the brand partnership. We have

1813
01:43:24,520 --> 01:43:27,880
Speaker 2: a lot of creative resources across the entire company that

1814
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:34,520
Speaker 2: we can tap, and we have a small, nimble team

1815
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:37,519
Speaker 2: that is going to pay a lot more attention to

1816
01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:40,479
Speaker 2: that particular artist for release because we're only putting out

1817
01:43:40,479 --> 01:43:42,800
Speaker 2: a handful of records a year. I mean, we are

1818
01:43:42,840 --> 01:43:46,559
Speaker 2: not you know, we're not in a system that you're

1819
01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:51,479
Speaker 2: competing with you know, ten other priorities at any given time.

1820
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:54,559
Speaker 2: We try to slot every one of our releases, so

1821
01:43:54,640 --> 01:43:57,280
Speaker 2: that is getting the sole attention of our label. So

1822
01:43:58,040 --> 01:44:03,760
Speaker 2: really good, strong, diverse infrastructure, excellent relationships where we can

1823
01:44:03,800 --> 01:44:07,120
Speaker 2: parlay all the relationships across the history of this company

1824
01:44:07,439 --> 01:44:10,040
Speaker 2: to talk to agents and festivals and all the key

1825
01:44:10,160 --> 01:44:14,800
Speaker 2: partners and music and the driving force is this amazing

1826
01:44:15,160 --> 01:44:18,400
Speaker 2: young team we have. You know, I you know what

1827
01:44:18,520 --> 01:44:21,599
Speaker 2: I learned really on in my career, it's that that

1828
01:44:21,760 --> 01:44:24,920
Speaker 2: young generation that drive our business. It's kind it's kind

1829
01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:27,240
Speaker 2: of what's broken in our business if you think about it.

1830
01:44:27,479 --> 01:44:30,439
Speaker 2: And I'm putting all the power of Fader label into

1831
01:44:30,680 --> 01:44:32,880
Speaker 2: sal our. A and R guy who is a former

1832
01:44:32,920 --> 01:44:35,200
Speaker 2: Fader writer who we made an A and R guy

1833
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:38,360
Speaker 2: Carson who's a young manager who's now running a label

1834
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:41,640
Speaker 2: as well, Sophia who heads up marketing, Rita who's our

1835
01:44:41,680 --> 01:44:45,519
Speaker 2: head of digital and project management. These are young people,

1836
01:44:45,800 --> 01:44:49,280
Speaker 2: all thirty or younger, that live, eat, and breathe the

1837
01:44:49,320 --> 01:44:53,680
Speaker 2: culture of what we're building around our roster, and I

1838
01:44:53,720 --> 01:44:56,640
Speaker 2: think there's something to be said about that energy and

1839
01:44:56,640 --> 01:45:01,439
Speaker 2: that hunger and that work ethic because they're peers of

1840
01:45:01,520 --> 01:45:04,360
Speaker 2: these artists and they're going to kill for them, and

1841
01:45:04,840 --> 01:45:07,160
Speaker 2: they are just as much as we're trying to establish

1842
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:09,720
Speaker 2: the artist's career, I'm trying to establish their careers. I'm

1843
01:45:09,720 --> 01:45:12,000
Speaker 2: trying to teach them and mentor them the same way

1844
01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:15,360
Speaker 2: that I was mentored. And the idea is, you know,

1845
01:45:15,600 --> 01:45:19,479
Speaker 2: how we can make them really excel at their jobs

1846
01:45:19,479 --> 01:45:21,840
Speaker 2: and successful just as much as their artists, because if

1847
01:45:21,840 --> 01:45:24,920
Speaker 2: they become more powerful and more skilled and build better relationships,

1848
01:45:25,240 --> 01:45:27,400
Speaker 2: that's going to rub off on the success of our artists.

1849
01:45:27,439 --> 01:45:30,799
Speaker 2: So I think that's why people should should consider us

1850
01:45:30,840 --> 01:45:34,080
Speaker 2: as an option. It's we're a very different company than

1851
01:45:34,120 --> 01:45:36,720
Speaker 2: what's out there, even even the other indies we're competing with.

1852
01:45:36,800 --> 01:45:38,840
Speaker 2: We're just we come from a different mentality.

1853
01:45:39,400 --> 01:45:42,840
Speaker 1: You were saying that it's broken with young employees. What

1854
01:45:42,880 --> 01:45:44,280
Speaker 1: were you referencing.

1855
01:45:44,560 --> 01:45:47,000
Speaker 2: I, you know, our industry is a little broken. I

1856
01:45:47,080 --> 01:45:50,440
Speaker 2: think there's you know, this was This is an industry

1857
01:45:50,920 --> 01:45:55,240
Speaker 2: that I think the youth has to be empowered. You're

1858
01:45:55,280 --> 01:45:57,759
Speaker 2: starting to see that transition. We'll see how it works.

1859
01:45:57,760 --> 01:46:01,559
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that older execus negatives should be out,

1860
01:46:01,680 --> 01:46:04,599
Speaker 2: but I think the older generation like myself and older

1861
01:46:04,600 --> 01:46:07,680
Speaker 2: executives have to do a better job of teaching and

1862
01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:11,240
Speaker 2: mentoring young talent, and then the industry has to start

1863
01:46:11,280 --> 01:46:15,679
Speaker 2: to empower the younger generation to take over. I think,

1864
01:46:16,200 --> 01:46:20,240
Speaker 2: you know, it's not just about the next TikTok. It's

1865
01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:23,840
Speaker 2: about people that are willing to go out and get

1866
01:46:23,840 --> 01:46:25,880
Speaker 2: their hands dirty and do the work. You know. I

1867
01:46:25,960 --> 01:46:28,160
Speaker 2: was with you, Bob in London and we were at

1868
01:46:28,320 --> 01:46:31,479
Speaker 2: Nile Horn, and the one thing that really blew me

1869
01:46:31,520 --> 01:46:34,640
Speaker 2: away is I love seeing you at two o'clock in

1870
01:46:34,680 --> 01:46:38,120
Speaker 2: the morning. We are there at Niles after party. It's

1871
01:46:38,120 --> 01:46:40,680
Speaker 2: the last show the tour, and you're still there and

1872
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:44,040
Speaker 2: you're talking to people and you're engaging, and that to

1873
01:46:44,160 --> 01:46:48,479
Speaker 2: me is still in It may sound flippant, flippant or stupid,

1874
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:52,040
Speaker 2: that is inherently what is most important in our business.

1875
01:46:52,160 --> 01:46:56,120
Speaker 2: It's being out and listening and seeing music and talking

1876
01:46:56,120 --> 01:46:59,680
Speaker 2: to people and engaging with people. And we need a

1877
01:46:59,720 --> 01:47:03,559
Speaker 2: general that isn't tired and is still willing to do that,

1878
01:47:03,640 --> 01:47:07,840
Speaker 2: because that's where the fundamental is. This business doesn't change.

1879
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:09,559
Speaker 2: And we live in a world where everyone's on their

1880
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:12,960
Speaker 2: phones and they're so quick to think that they can

1881
01:47:13,000 --> 01:47:16,880
Speaker 2: stay plugged in because they're watching TikTok and social media.

1882
01:47:17,040 --> 01:47:19,320
Speaker 2: And you know, I watched you in that room. You

1883
01:47:19,360 --> 01:47:22,000
Speaker 2: and I were two of the older dudes there. We

1884
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:24,960
Speaker 2: were the last men standing. And I think that is

1885
01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:28,040
Speaker 2: a lost art in our business. People have gotten tired

1886
01:47:28,160 --> 01:47:31,679
Speaker 2: or they've gotten complacent with how digital things have become.

1887
01:47:31,920 --> 01:47:34,679
Speaker 2: And to me, in the music industry is all about

1888
01:47:34,680 --> 01:47:37,640
Speaker 2: being present and being out there and being immersed in

1889
01:47:37,680 --> 01:47:40,880
Speaker 2: the culture. And that's what I pride myself on doing

1890
01:47:40,960 --> 01:47:43,360
Speaker 2: and leading by example. That's what I'm trying to push

1891
01:47:43,360 --> 01:47:46,439
Speaker 2: our staff to do. And it's hard. It's harder. Even

1892
01:47:46,560 --> 01:47:49,160
Speaker 2: young people are a little tired of doing it. But

1893
01:47:49,280 --> 01:47:53,360
Speaker 2: I think that's what makes the big successes separate of

1894
01:47:53,400 --> 01:47:56,000
Speaker 2: those people that are having moderate success and they're in

1895
01:47:56,080 --> 01:47:59,519
Speaker 2: the scene, they're willing to to stay out there and

1896
01:47:59,760 --> 01:48:02,719
Speaker 2: they're curious and they're asking the questions and meeting people

1897
01:48:02,760 --> 01:48:05,519
Speaker 2: and watching with their own eyes, not on their on

1898
01:48:05,560 --> 01:48:06,280
Speaker 2: their cell phones.

1899
01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:10,000
Speaker 1: Okay, you say that the Fader label has a relationship

1900
01:48:10,040 --> 01:48:13,759
Speaker 1: with Virgin, What does that look like and does Virgin

1901
01:48:13,880 --> 01:48:17,439
Speaker 1: have the right to sort of pick up on artists

1902
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:19,920
Speaker 1: you have success with or is it straight distribution or

1903
01:48:19,920 --> 01:48:21,640
Speaker 1: are they providing any other services.

1904
01:48:22,720 --> 01:48:26,840
Speaker 2: They are a straight distributor, so we fund everything ourselves,

1905
01:48:26,920 --> 01:48:30,120
Speaker 2: We own everything out right. They take a percentage of

1906
01:48:30,160 --> 01:48:35,320
Speaker 2: our gross revenue. They help us with DSPs and placement

1907
01:48:35,439 --> 01:48:39,960
Speaker 2: of the songs. They will help us sometimes will upstream

1908
01:48:40,080 --> 01:48:43,080
Speaker 2: certain marketing services. We don't upstream records to them, but

1909
01:48:43,160 --> 01:48:46,840
Speaker 2: we will, you know, use some of their services if

1910
01:48:46,880 --> 01:48:52,040
Speaker 2: we need some help either globally in other areas. And

1911
01:48:52,080 --> 01:48:54,200
Speaker 2: it's hard, I mean, Virgin is part of a major

1912
01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:57,360
Speaker 2: label system and they've just merged the company with three

1913
01:48:57,400 --> 01:49:01,720
Speaker 2: other companies. And my fear with all of the indie distributors,

1914
01:49:01,760 --> 01:49:06,280
Speaker 2: not just Virgin, is that they're so consolidated and we're

1915
01:49:06,280 --> 01:49:10,000
Speaker 2: competing with so many other releases, and we're competing for attention,

1916
01:49:10,840 --> 01:49:15,400
Speaker 2: and there is not a true indie focused system out

1917
01:49:15,400 --> 01:49:17,920
Speaker 2: there right now, and it's really it's concerning for me.

1918
01:49:17,960 --> 01:49:19,840
Speaker 2: I mean, Virgin has been a great partner, They've done

1919
01:49:19,920 --> 01:49:23,240
Speaker 2: great work. I think as they complete the merger of

1920
01:49:23,320 --> 01:49:25,760
Speaker 2: these other companies that they merge with, they're going to

1921
01:49:25,800 --> 01:49:28,840
Speaker 2: get stronger and better. But my concern is that there

1922
01:49:28,880 --> 01:49:35,680
Speaker 2: are not a true indie distribution resource. It is a

1923
01:49:35,840 --> 01:49:39,639
Speaker 2: conglomerate of a lot of different companies that are all

1924
01:49:39,680 --> 01:49:42,040
Speaker 2: merged into one, and all of a sudden, we find

1925
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:47,280
Speaker 2: ourselves competing with tons of releases for attention. And I

1926
01:49:47,320 --> 01:49:49,280
Speaker 2: think our philosophy is we got to try to become

1927
01:49:49,280 --> 01:49:53,080
Speaker 2: as self sufficient as we can and take what's best

1928
01:49:53,080 --> 01:49:56,080
Speaker 2: out of that system and really rely on ourselves for

1929
01:49:56,479 --> 01:49:59,240
Speaker 2: everything else. But because the major label system is it's

1930
01:49:59,280 --> 01:50:01,559
Speaker 2: at a real cross at least when it comes to indies.

1931
01:50:02,040 --> 01:50:05,799
Speaker 2: They're all these labels are in more of the artist's business.

1932
01:50:05,880 --> 01:50:09,240
Speaker 2: They are doing as many direct deals with the artists themselves.

1933
01:50:09,320 --> 01:50:13,360
Speaker 2: They're giving artists bigger percentages of their revenue, They're fronting

1934
01:50:13,400 --> 01:50:15,880
Speaker 2: them cash. THEA walls of the world are doing a

1935
01:50:15,880 --> 01:50:18,559
Speaker 2: great job of it. Virgins starting to do more of this,

1936
01:50:18,800 --> 01:50:22,240
Speaker 2: and my fear is they want to be as direct,

1937
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:26,799
Speaker 2: thus becoming competitors to our model, and it's a concern

1938
01:50:26,880 --> 01:50:30,320
Speaker 2: to us. And you know, I believe that there's a

1939
01:50:30,400 --> 01:50:33,200
Speaker 2: role for us within these systems. But I'm trying to

1940
01:50:33,200 --> 01:50:34,839
Speaker 2: figure out what is that way forward.

1941
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:42,240
Speaker 1: Okay, traditional labels, the three majors in their different divisions,

1942
01:50:43,240 --> 01:50:48,040
Speaker 1: they are really at this laid date heavily focused on radio. Radio.

1943
01:50:48,200 --> 01:50:51,479
Speaker 1: Terrestrial radio has a smaller share of mind share than

1944
01:50:51,479 --> 01:50:56,280
Speaker 1: ever before. It's kind of like people advertising on network television. Yes,

1945
01:50:56,439 --> 01:51:00,840
Speaker 1: fewer viewers, but it's got more mass than others. You

1946
01:51:01,560 --> 01:51:07,000
Speaker 1: own a label, ay, what is your view on radio?

1947
01:51:07,520 --> 01:51:10,519
Speaker 1: What is your view on where the majors are putting

1948
01:51:10,560 --> 01:51:12,679
Speaker 1: the reference and where you're putting your reference.

1949
01:51:14,360 --> 01:51:17,799
Speaker 2: You know, I used to work radio. I still listen

1950
01:51:17,840 --> 01:51:20,960
Speaker 2: and get turned on to a lot of music via radio.

1951
01:51:21,040 --> 01:51:23,720
Speaker 2: I love listening to six Music. I love listening to

1952
01:51:24,320 --> 01:51:27,520
Speaker 2: Zane Lowe's show on Apple Music. I love Sirius XMU

1953
01:51:27,680 --> 01:51:32,280
Speaker 2: on Sirius. I mean radio for me, if you find

1954
01:51:32,280 --> 01:51:34,880
Speaker 2: the right sources have always been really useful in a

1955
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:37,400
Speaker 2: great way to keep me in the no. But radio

1956
01:51:37,479 --> 01:51:40,680
Speaker 2: is completely irrelevant to a young generation right now, and

1957
01:51:40,720 --> 01:51:46,559
Speaker 2: it's radio's own fault. Radio didn't evolve. Radio basically latched

1958
01:51:46,600 --> 01:51:51,479
Speaker 2: onto this older demographic and played the ratings game when

1959
01:51:51,479 --> 01:51:56,599
Speaker 2: they could have really rebuilt and rebranded themselves. And now

1960
01:51:56,600 --> 01:51:59,720
Speaker 2: you're faced with a generation that just doesn't care. They

1961
01:51:59,760 --> 01:52:02,000
Speaker 2: are not listening to radio at all. They're listening to

1962
01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:06,879
Speaker 2: Spotify or Apple Music, or they're finding music on TikTok,

1963
01:52:06,920 --> 01:52:11,559
Speaker 2: they're finding music on reels, YouTube, YouTube shorts, and I

1964
01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:16,240
Speaker 2: think radio is really only capturing a much older audience.

1965
01:52:17,280 --> 01:52:20,439
Speaker 2: Pop radio maybe has more impact than some of the

1966
01:52:20,479 --> 01:52:24,639
Speaker 2: other formats. Maybe specialty shows and mix shows make some impact,

1967
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:29,600
Speaker 2: but I don't think radio as a driver for commerce

1968
01:52:30,160 --> 01:52:33,960
Speaker 2: to develop new artists has anywhere the same impact. I

1969
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:37,640
Speaker 2: do think there are offshoots of radio that can can

1970
01:52:37,680 --> 01:52:41,719
Speaker 2: be helpful and useful, but I think the major labels

1971
01:52:41,720 --> 01:52:44,120
Speaker 2: play that game. We don't invest in it. You know,

1972
01:52:44,520 --> 01:52:46,880
Speaker 2: we invested in it with Claro back in the day.

1973
01:52:47,320 --> 01:52:50,040
Speaker 2: Occasionally we'll take a shot. We don't really see en

1974
01:52:50,080 --> 01:52:52,519
Speaker 2: up tick in our streams that's commensurate to the amount

1975
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:55,720
Speaker 2: of money you just spent. It will help touring, it

1976
01:52:55,760 --> 01:52:59,760
Speaker 2: will help awareness. I just don't think radio isn't a

1977
01:52:59,760 --> 01:53:03,160
Speaker 2: good place right now. And I think they they could

1978
01:53:03,240 --> 01:53:07,080
Speaker 2: have reinvented themselves in so many ways, and you know

1979
01:53:07,560 --> 01:53:10,280
Speaker 2: I didn't. I don't root for radio's failure. I'd love

1980
01:53:10,320 --> 01:53:13,520
Speaker 2: to see radio turning around. But radio's gotta just get innovatives,

1981
01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:16,519
Speaker 2: and right now there's no innovation with the way they're

1982
01:53:16,640 --> 01:53:18,240
Speaker 2: they're going about their business.

1983
01:53:18,479 --> 01:53:23,120
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's say I sign to you, what are

1984
01:53:23,160 --> 01:53:23,920
Speaker 1: you gonna do for me?

1985
01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:29,559
Speaker 2: We are going to build a strategy that includes the

1986
01:53:29,600 --> 01:53:32,680
Speaker 2: follow up number number one, We're gonna get the music right.

1987
01:53:32,960 --> 01:53:37,639
Speaker 2: First thing we're gonna do is hear what your vision

1988
01:53:37,800 --> 01:53:40,920
Speaker 2: is for your music. You know, what do you like,

1989
01:53:41,040 --> 01:53:43,000
Speaker 2: who do you respect, what kind of music you want

1990
01:53:43,000 --> 01:53:46,320
Speaker 2: to make. Let's find the right sessions and get you

1991
01:53:46,360 --> 01:53:49,680
Speaker 2: in the studio to get you some experience. Let's get

1992
01:53:49,880 --> 01:53:53,680
Speaker 2: you know, Bob a session with so and so and

1993
01:53:53,760 --> 01:53:55,679
Speaker 2: see how it goes, See what you can learn from

1994
01:53:55,680 --> 01:53:57,960
Speaker 2: that session, and let's start to make some early music.

1995
01:53:58,160 --> 01:54:00,519
Speaker 2: Would probably start by putting out a handful of singles

1996
01:54:01,120 --> 01:54:03,960
Speaker 2: or mapping out a few EP projects before we speed

1997
01:54:04,479 --> 01:54:06,960
Speaker 2: for racing to build an album. And then the most

1998
01:54:07,000 --> 01:54:09,840
Speaker 2: important thing is as we're doing that and we're developing

1999
01:54:09,880 --> 01:54:13,400
Speaker 2: your craft and your writing, we are working on making

2000
01:54:13,479 --> 01:54:16,880
Speaker 2: sure you can perform live the biggest lost art in music,

2001
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:20,080
Speaker 2: and the one constant that hasn't changed in all the

2002
01:54:20,160 --> 01:54:22,240
Speaker 2: years I've been doing this is you have to be

2003
01:54:22,240 --> 01:54:25,280
Speaker 2: a great songwriter and you really have to play live

2004
01:54:25,400 --> 01:54:27,280
Speaker 2: and be willing to do the work to tour. And

2005
01:54:27,320 --> 01:54:30,080
Speaker 2: I don't care if we start you playing to fifty

2006
01:54:30,120 --> 01:54:32,600
Speaker 2: people all night. We've got to start to establish you

2007
01:54:32,640 --> 01:54:36,160
Speaker 2: as a live act. As that's happening, We're then working

2008
01:54:36,200 --> 01:54:39,480
Speaker 2: on the imagery's let's hear your creative vision. What's your

2009
01:54:39,480 --> 01:54:41,400
Speaker 2: look and feel? How do we want to style you?

2010
01:54:41,440 --> 01:54:43,680
Speaker 2: What do you want the photos to look. How do

2011
01:54:43,760 --> 01:54:46,959
Speaker 2: we help rebuild and work with you on your social channels?

2012
01:54:47,040 --> 01:54:51,440
Speaker 2: What message can we convey about you and who you are,

2013
01:54:51,600 --> 01:54:54,800
Speaker 2: where you come from? What inspire you on your social channels?

2014
01:54:54,840 --> 01:54:58,560
Speaker 2: How are we using TikTok verse Instagram? How are we

2015
01:54:59,240 --> 01:55:02,280
Speaker 2: you know, bang the right content and shooting the right

2016
01:55:02,320 --> 01:55:05,440
Speaker 2: content within a reasonable budget. So over the course of

2017
01:55:05,480 --> 01:55:08,440
Speaker 2: these next six months to a year, we're parceling out

2018
01:55:08,760 --> 01:55:12,840
Speaker 2: content at a regular cadence. It's probably too soon for

2019
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:14,920
Speaker 2: a new artist to have brand partnerships, but I want

2020
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:17,720
Speaker 2: to get an idea of what a what are your brands?

2021
01:55:17,760 --> 01:55:19,200
Speaker 2: What do you like what do you what do you

2022
01:55:19,880 --> 01:55:23,000
Speaker 2: like fashion wise? What sneakers do you wear? What do

2023
01:55:23,040 --> 01:55:25,360
Speaker 2: you drink? Where are you from? How do we tell

2024
01:55:25,360 --> 01:55:27,720
Speaker 2: a story about where you're from and the influence of

2025
01:55:27,760 --> 01:55:30,720
Speaker 2: that market that's around you? And then who are the

2026
01:55:30,840 --> 01:55:33,840
Speaker 2: artists that are in your periphery. The best way to

2027
01:55:33,880 --> 01:55:37,360
Speaker 2: break a young artist right now is collaboration or getting

2028
01:55:37,360 --> 01:55:39,960
Speaker 2: the uplift from another artist. If I think back to Clara,

2029
01:55:40,520 --> 01:55:45,280
Speaker 2: you know, she was incredible because she she had such

2030
01:55:45,320 --> 01:55:48,760
Speaker 2: good taste, She had such an amazing frame of reference

2031
01:55:48,800 --> 01:55:51,760
Speaker 2: for a young kid. You know, she was a music historian,

2032
01:55:52,360 --> 01:55:55,800
Speaker 2: and artists started seeking her out. They would find her online,

2033
01:55:56,040 --> 01:55:58,160
Speaker 2: they would see what she was listening to or posting

2034
01:55:58,240 --> 01:56:02,000
Speaker 2: or playing, and she would get you call dms from

2035
01:56:02,320 --> 01:56:05,520
Speaker 2: incredible artists because they liked her taste, they liked the

2036
01:56:05,520 --> 01:56:08,520
Speaker 2: way she established herself. And as I got to know her,

2037
01:56:08,880 --> 01:56:11,880
Speaker 2: I was like, Wow, the DNA of her is not

2038
01:56:11,960 --> 01:56:14,040
Speaker 2: only what a great songwriter she is, or what a

2039
01:56:14,040 --> 01:56:16,320
Speaker 2: great performer she is, or the fact that she wanted

2040
01:56:16,360 --> 01:56:19,400
Speaker 2: to learn and play as many instruments as herself, but

2041
01:56:19,480 --> 01:56:22,720
Speaker 2: it was her frame of history. She knew so much

2042
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:26,800
Speaker 2: about music. Does not get enough credit for what a

2043
01:56:26,840 --> 01:56:29,720
Speaker 2: great music mind she has, and what a student she

2044
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:32,880
Speaker 2: is of music. She names her dog Joni, after Joni Mitchell.

2045
01:56:32,880 --> 01:56:35,360
Speaker 2: And if I'm pointing to the things that make her successful,

2046
01:56:35,680 --> 01:56:39,000
Speaker 2: it's all of those combined. She was a student of

2047
01:56:39,080 --> 01:56:42,400
Speaker 2: music and really knew her history, and really pushed herself

2048
01:56:42,440 --> 01:56:44,120
Speaker 2: to listen to a lot of things. And I'm not

2049
01:56:44,240 --> 01:56:48,920
Speaker 2: just talking current peers, but really did the work. Was

2050
01:56:48,960 --> 01:56:53,200
Speaker 2: always writing songs, always doing sessions, and then to her credit,

2051
01:56:54,160 --> 01:56:56,920
Speaker 2: pushed herself so hard on the road to the point

2052
01:56:57,040 --> 01:56:59,760
Speaker 2: that she really exhausted herself. If I think of Dell

2053
01:56:59,800 --> 01:57:04,120
Speaker 2: wa and why, ten years into our career, he is

2054
01:57:04,200 --> 01:57:06,880
Speaker 2: so successful in doing what he's doing, He's like the

2055
01:57:06,920 --> 01:57:09,160
Speaker 2: next one. He is so on the verge, Bob of

2056
01:57:09,280 --> 01:57:14,000
Speaker 2: being our industry's next big artist. It's because he bled

2057
01:57:14,280 --> 01:57:17,680
Speaker 2: and did the hard work for ten years. This kid

2058
01:57:18,080 --> 01:57:23,680
Speaker 2: has toured, relentlessly, paid money out of his own success,

2059
01:57:23,720 --> 01:57:25,920
Speaker 2: like the money that he should be living off, to

2060
01:57:26,040 --> 01:57:29,840
Speaker 2: downsize his lifestyle, to reinvest in touring, to write, to

2061
01:57:29,920 --> 01:57:32,480
Speaker 2: do sessions. So if to answer your question about what

2062
01:57:32,480 --> 01:57:34,760
Speaker 2: I'm going to do for you, it's can I instill

2063
01:57:34,800 --> 01:57:37,920
Speaker 2: that work ethic in you? Can I inspire you and

2064
01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:39,920
Speaker 2: help give you the tools to be a good writer.

2065
01:57:40,280 --> 01:57:43,880
Speaker 2: But more importantly, can we establish that live act and

2066
01:57:43,920 --> 01:57:46,280
Speaker 2: can we give you a little bit of that experience

2067
01:57:46,320 --> 01:57:49,160
Speaker 2: and frame of reference so you really have the basis

2068
01:57:49,600 --> 01:57:52,840
Speaker 2: to build, you know, the career that you want, and

2069
01:57:53,280 --> 01:57:56,720
Speaker 2: it just takes time. Then from there, it's lots of

2070
01:57:56,760 --> 01:58:00,000
Speaker 2: little steps. It's you know, I have so many artists

2071
01:58:00,320 --> 01:58:03,240
Speaker 2: that the p and ls don't look great, that the

2072
01:58:03,360 --> 01:58:06,640
Speaker 2: growth is slow, but lots of little things add up

2073
01:58:06,680 --> 01:58:08,720
Speaker 2: and then you know, you know, then you then you

2074
01:58:08,800 --> 01:58:10,720
Speaker 2: break through to a Clara, then you start seeing the

2075
01:58:10,760 --> 01:58:14,000
Speaker 2: success of Adull Water Gap. It happens, but it's time

2076
01:58:14,080 --> 01:58:16,240
Speaker 2: in the game. It's like I said earlier, you gotta

2077
01:58:16,720 --> 01:58:20,080
Speaker 2: you gotta keep in the game. And over time, if

2078
01:58:20,120 --> 01:58:22,520
Speaker 2: you're just making that little progress, you're going to start

2079
01:58:22,520 --> 01:58:23,120
Speaker 2: to break through.

2080
01:58:23,880 --> 01:58:28,040
Speaker 1: Okay, the majors are focused on pop and hip hop.

2081
01:58:28,680 --> 01:58:31,200
Speaker 1: What is the status of rock and what is the

2082
01:58:31,240 --> 01:58:32,720
Speaker 1: status of other genres?

2083
01:58:34,120 --> 01:58:38,000
Speaker 2: You know, I think rock music is way healthier than

2084
01:58:38,840 --> 01:58:42,160
Speaker 2: anyone gives it credit. You know, I mean I love

2085
01:58:42,200 --> 01:58:44,560
Speaker 2: reading all your stuff. You're you're really I love your

2086
01:58:44,600 --> 01:58:48,360
Speaker 2: take on on this how it comes up every few years.

2087
01:58:48,960 --> 01:58:52,680
Speaker 2: But if you look at careers right now, there are

2088
01:58:52,880 --> 01:58:57,120
Speaker 2: so many careers in rock music. Maybe if you're going

2089
01:58:57,240 --> 01:59:01,960
Speaker 2: to measure the success relative to Chapel Rowan or Taylor Swift,

2090
01:59:02,160 --> 01:59:04,920
Speaker 2: it doesn't look the same. But if you look at

2091
01:59:05,040 --> 01:59:09,400
Speaker 2: Fontane's DC, Bob right now signed to Excel Records, Irish

2092
01:59:09,480 --> 01:59:13,200
Speaker 2: band like they are, They're a rock band that is

2093
01:59:13,400 --> 01:59:17,320
Speaker 2: really succeeding. It's not about radio. It's about the fact

2094
01:59:17,320 --> 01:59:20,800
Speaker 2: that they toured like crazy. They've got lots of press

2095
01:59:20,840 --> 01:59:23,040
Speaker 2: love for whatever that means. I'm not quite sure how

2096
01:59:23,120 --> 01:59:25,520
Speaker 2: much it moves the needle. You know, we've talked about that,

2097
01:59:25,560 --> 01:59:29,040
Speaker 2: you've written about that. They've done all the little things,

2098
01:59:29,080 --> 01:59:32,560
Speaker 2: but most importantly, they've built a direct pipeline to fans

2099
01:59:32,560 --> 01:59:36,520
Speaker 2: through touring. And Fontane's DC is a rock band that

2100
01:59:36,680 --> 01:59:40,600
Speaker 2: is really succeeding and breaking through in a big way.

2101
01:59:40,760 --> 01:59:43,760
Speaker 2: And I think I think rock music. You know, you

2102
01:59:43,800 --> 01:59:48,200
Speaker 2: look at Noah Com, you look at Zach Bryan, country rock,

2103
01:59:48,240 --> 01:59:51,160
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call them, Like, there are plenty

2104
01:59:51,200 --> 01:59:53,120
Speaker 2: of artists. You look at McGee right now. I don't

2105
01:59:53,120 --> 01:59:54,680
Speaker 2: know if you know this kid McGee. You know he's

2106
01:59:54,680 --> 01:59:58,320
Speaker 2: playing New York tonight, But like he comes from Dejon's camp,

2107
01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:02,800
Speaker 2: great guitar player, like very modest streaming numbers, but he's

2108
02:00:03,080 --> 02:00:05,800
Speaker 2: he's selling out Terminal five tonight. He sold out the

2109
02:00:05,840 --> 02:00:09,640
Speaker 2: Brooklyn Paramount on Sunday. These are rock based artists that

2110
02:00:09,720 --> 02:00:12,080
Speaker 2: are so under the industry's radar, and we all talk

2111
02:00:12,120 --> 02:00:14,680
Speaker 2: about the death of rock. Rock is dead, and these

2112
02:00:14,680 --> 02:00:18,000
Speaker 2: are young kids coming to see them. They're selling tickets,

2113
02:00:18,400 --> 02:00:22,800
Speaker 2: they're streaming, they have buzz and they have These aren't

2114
02:00:22,840 --> 02:00:26,760
Speaker 2: just moments, these are gonna be careers. And I really

2115
02:00:26,800 --> 02:00:29,560
Speaker 2: think rock is in the best place it's been in

2116
02:00:29,600 --> 02:00:33,400
Speaker 2: a long time. I think that pop music has become

2117
02:00:33,400 --> 02:00:37,120
Speaker 2: an amalgamation of lots of genres. You know, noa con

2118
02:00:37,440 --> 02:00:41,400
Speaker 2: of pop artists. But he's really a folky rock artist

2119
02:00:41,480 --> 02:00:45,480
Speaker 2: at heart. And I think even Taylor Swift, as pop

2120
02:00:45,520 --> 02:00:48,520
Speaker 2: as she is, she's a songwriter, singer songwriter. At the

2121
02:00:49,760 --> 02:00:54,920
Speaker 2: core of what she does is pop, folk leaning country music.

2122
02:00:55,000 --> 02:00:57,160
Speaker 2: And I think rock is in a strong place. I

2123
02:00:57,200 --> 02:00:59,920
Speaker 2: think hip hop's in a more of a transitionary place.

2124
02:01:00,080 --> 02:01:03,320
Speaker 2: I think hip hop is it's it's the passing of

2125
02:01:03,360 --> 02:01:06,080
Speaker 2: a torch to a new generation. And it's the question

2126
02:01:06,160 --> 02:01:07,680
Speaker 2: with hip hop is who are going to be the

2127
02:01:07,720 --> 02:01:11,600
Speaker 2: new stars. You know, Kendrick's clearly the leader right now,

2128
02:01:11,640 --> 02:01:15,160
Speaker 2: and he's an icon, and he's amazing, and he's doing

2129
02:01:15,200 --> 02:01:18,160
Speaker 2: good things and he's saying good things, and I love

2130
02:01:18,200 --> 02:01:20,600
Speaker 2: that he's doing the super Bowl. But the question in

2131
02:01:20,720 --> 02:01:23,440
Speaker 2: hip hop is, Okay, who's the next you know, who

2132
02:01:23,800 --> 02:01:25,840
Speaker 2: are the next leaders? You know, there are plenty of

2133
02:01:26,200 --> 02:01:29,200
Speaker 2: really good young hip hop acts, but are they going

2134
02:01:29,280 --> 02:01:32,480
Speaker 2: to be the heir to the Drake Kendrick throne. You know,

2135
02:01:32,720 --> 02:01:36,160
Speaker 2: Playboy Cardi doing really well, but he's he going to

2136
02:01:36,240 --> 02:01:41,080
Speaker 2: be that that major hip hop icon. I think music's

2137
02:01:41,080 --> 02:01:44,760
Speaker 2: in a good place, though, The question becomes, you know,

2138
02:01:45,440 --> 02:01:47,920
Speaker 2: does rock music continue this run? Because I think rock

2139
02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:50,800
Speaker 2: music is really in a better place than it's been

2140
02:01:50,840 --> 02:01:51,320
Speaker 2: in years.

2141
02:01:52,200 --> 02:01:55,760
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about music in general. In the sixties,

2142
02:01:56,640 --> 02:02:00,440
Speaker 1: FM and before that, AM where everything you want to

2143
02:02:00,520 --> 02:02:02,080
Speaker 1: know what was going on in the world. He turned

2144
02:02:02,120 --> 02:02:05,480
Speaker 1: on the radio. That grew into the seventies and the eighties.

2145
02:02:05,520 --> 02:02:10,160
Speaker 1: We had MTV. We have the explosion of television with

2146
02:02:10,520 --> 02:02:14,400
Speaker 1: the Sopranos in nineteen ninety nine, so we have this

2147
02:02:14,560 --> 02:02:20,680
Speaker 1: burgeoning streaming television, We have social media, and we have music.

2148
02:02:21,800 --> 02:02:25,320
Speaker 1: Where does music fit into the cultural world. Let me

2149
02:02:25,520 --> 02:02:28,520
Speaker 1: set it up. A lot of people in this business

2150
02:02:28,560 --> 02:02:32,000
Speaker 1: will say, same as it ever was, you know, the

2151
02:02:32,080 --> 02:02:34,560
Speaker 1: young people feel the same way, it's as good as

2152
02:02:34,600 --> 02:02:38,560
Speaker 1: it ever was. I believe that's patently untrue. Listen, I

2153
02:02:38,600 --> 02:02:41,560
Speaker 1: lived through the Beatles. Whatever Taylor Swift is and it's big,

2154
02:02:41,640 --> 02:02:47,560
Speaker 1: it's not the Beatles. Okay, So we're is music today

2155
02:02:48,000 --> 02:02:54,120
Speaker 1: and what might music change to further its place in

2156
02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:54,880
Speaker 1: the firmament.

2157
02:02:56,120 --> 02:02:59,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm more aligned with your thinking. We don't have

2158
02:02:59,840 --> 02:03:04,400
Speaker 2: the Beatles. We don't have Heyday peak Michael Jackson. We

2159
02:03:04,440 --> 02:03:08,800
Speaker 2: don't have Heyday peak Springsteen. You know, like I think

2160
02:03:09,160 --> 02:03:12,760
Speaker 2: we have stars they're doing well. We have kids that

2161
02:03:12,800 --> 02:03:16,120
Speaker 2: are growing up with passion for music. The problem with

2162
02:03:16,880 --> 02:03:21,400
Speaker 2: the media landscape when it relates to the establishing music,

2163
02:03:22,080 --> 02:03:25,280
Speaker 2: it is so quick and disposable. We live in a

2164
02:03:25,360 --> 02:03:28,680
Speaker 2: forty second clip world or a fifteen second clip world.

2165
02:03:28,720 --> 02:03:33,360
Speaker 2: Like kids are so passionate about a song, but then

2166
02:03:33,400 --> 02:03:36,200
Speaker 2: it goes away. I mean, you know, like there are

2167
02:03:36,240 --> 02:03:39,320
Speaker 2: so many big moments. The question is are they going

2168
02:03:39,360 --> 02:03:42,800
Speaker 2: to be lasting moments? You know, Like I think you know,

2169
02:03:42,840 --> 02:03:47,040
Speaker 2: the question is the medium that's delivering a lot of

2170
02:03:47,080 --> 02:03:51,040
Speaker 2: these kids, the exposure to this music. It's it's not

2171
02:03:51,280 --> 02:03:56,000
Speaker 2: set up to resonate from a career standpoint. Even the festivals,

2172
02:03:56,720 --> 02:04:00,640
Speaker 2: which you know they're in a transitionary period, are being

2173
02:04:00,760 --> 02:04:04,560
Speaker 2: programmed more with that mentality. The festival lineups are being

2174
02:04:04,560 --> 02:04:07,360
Speaker 2: built around more of a TikTok mentality, and you have

2175
02:04:07,480 --> 02:04:11,360
Speaker 2: kids winding up for one artist for one moment in

2176
02:04:11,400 --> 02:04:13,480
Speaker 2: one song, and then that song comes and then they're

2177
02:04:13,520 --> 02:04:16,600
Speaker 2: moving to the next one. You know, Chapaaran's kind of

2178
02:04:16,960 --> 02:04:20,320
Speaker 2: transcended all that. She's proven like, maybe I can be

2179
02:04:20,760 --> 02:04:23,120
Speaker 2: an artist that broke that moment, but I got the

2180
02:04:23,160 --> 02:04:26,400
Speaker 2: kids paying attention to everything I'm doing. But I think

2181
02:04:26,520 --> 02:04:29,840
Speaker 2: we're in a very precarious position to establish the next

2182
02:04:29,840 --> 02:04:33,400
Speaker 2: Beatles or the next wave of superstars, because right now

2183
02:04:34,120 --> 02:04:37,880
Speaker 2: media is in this mentality. However, you know, you did

2184
02:04:38,000 --> 02:04:41,360
Speaker 2: your whole round about super fans and super fandom and

2185
02:04:41,360 --> 02:04:44,520
Speaker 2: how that insight was gotten wrong by Universal. I do

2186
02:04:44,640 --> 02:04:49,040
Speaker 2: think that there is a hunger from the music consumer

2187
02:04:49,600 --> 02:04:53,080
Speaker 2: to be a super fan. That is there. Maybe on

2188
02:04:53,120 --> 02:04:55,200
Speaker 2: a business level, a lot of the major players are

2189
02:04:55,200 --> 02:04:57,640
Speaker 2: getting that wrong, and I do agree with your take

2190
02:04:57,680 --> 02:04:59,760
Speaker 2: on that, But I do think and I see it

2191
02:04:59,800 --> 02:05:02,360
Speaker 2: Man del Water Gap. I see it from working with

2192
02:05:02,440 --> 02:05:04,320
Speaker 2: Clara all these past years, and I went to her

2193
02:05:04,360 --> 02:05:07,640
Speaker 2: show the other night, which was absolutely fucking incredible. There

2194
02:05:07,720 --> 02:05:11,960
Speaker 2: is a passion that artists have for the artists they love,

2195
02:05:12,280 --> 02:05:15,880
Speaker 2: and a willingness to go so much deeper into into

2196
02:05:15,920 --> 02:05:19,640
Speaker 2: that artist. And that's something that I think today's media

2197
02:05:19,720 --> 02:05:22,600
Speaker 2: landscape is helping. And if we can make fans want

2198
02:05:22,600 --> 02:05:25,200
Speaker 2: to go deeper and learn more about those artists and

2199
02:05:25,240 --> 02:05:29,120
Speaker 2: buy more merchant and buy vinyl and buy tickets, I

2200
02:05:29,480 --> 02:05:31,760
Speaker 2: do think we're going to head to a place where

2201
02:05:31,840 --> 02:05:34,400
Speaker 2: we may never have a Beatles again, but we're going

2202
02:05:34,480 --> 02:05:37,240
Speaker 2: to have career artists. You know. Noah CON's got that,

2203
02:05:38,560 --> 02:05:41,640
Speaker 2: Charlie FCX, at least in the major cities. I don't

2204
02:05:41,640 --> 02:05:43,560
Speaker 2: know if it's working in the Midwest, but I know

2205
02:05:43,720 --> 02:05:46,560
Speaker 2: like in New York she played MSG this week and

2206
02:05:46,600 --> 02:05:48,480
Speaker 2: it was one of the hottest tickets of the year

2207
02:05:48,640 --> 02:05:51,480
Speaker 2: in New York City, Like, you could not get a ticket,

2208
02:05:51,600 --> 02:05:54,680
Speaker 2: you know, even even industry people struggle to get, you know,

2209
02:05:55,000 --> 02:05:57,720
Speaker 2: tickets that so, you know, and that's a ten year

2210
02:05:58,480 --> 02:06:01,160
Speaker 2: plus career of the making. Maybe I think she started

2211
02:06:01,160 --> 02:06:06,120
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve, So I do think that media has

2212
02:06:06,160 --> 02:06:09,120
Speaker 2: made it a lot harder, and kids attention span is

2213
02:06:09,120 --> 02:06:12,080
Speaker 2: a little more disposable and they're not going as deep.

2214
02:06:12,360 --> 02:06:15,600
Speaker 2: But the few people that latch onto an act and

2215
02:06:15,680 --> 02:06:19,000
Speaker 2: fall in love with that favorite act are going deeper.

2216
02:06:19,640 --> 02:06:23,640
Speaker 2: The problem is how big can can those acts become?

2217
02:06:23,880 --> 02:06:26,200
Speaker 2: You know, Taylor Swift an anomaly. You know you're not

2218
02:06:26,200 --> 02:06:30,280
Speaker 2: gonna have many of those. I find it pretty mind

2219
02:06:30,320 --> 02:06:35,280
Speaker 2: blowing that the buzziest tour of twenty twenty four the

2220
02:06:35,320 --> 02:06:38,800
Speaker 2: Oasis reading. I mean, the the mania for that. And

2221
02:06:38,840 --> 02:06:43,760
Speaker 2: it's not just old britpop fans like me or British people.

2222
02:06:44,080 --> 02:06:47,280
Speaker 2: I mean, there are so many kids asking me for

2223
02:06:47,400 --> 02:06:52,400
Speaker 2: tickets or are curious. And you know that's the Internet

2224
02:06:52,480 --> 02:06:55,800
Speaker 2: driving that, that's TikTok driving that. That is there is

2225
02:06:55,840 --> 02:06:59,360
Speaker 2: a curiosity. The problem is it moves so fast. And

2226
02:06:59,400 --> 02:07:01,920
Speaker 2: what's beautiful all about the Beatle and a lot of

2227
02:07:01,960 --> 02:07:03,720
Speaker 2: stuff that you and I grew up listening to and

2228
02:07:03,760 --> 02:07:06,360
Speaker 2: how we discovered music. We had to work for it,

2229
02:07:06,920 --> 02:07:09,000
Speaker 2: and you had to take your time, and you had

2230
02:07:09,040 --> 02:07:11,760
Speaker 2: to put a piece of vinyl on the turntable or

2231
02:07:11,800 --> 02:07:13,600
Speaker 2: go to the record store buy it, or you had

2232
02:07:13,600 --> 02:07:16,400
Speaker 2: to line up for a ticket. I'm not saying we

2233
02:07:16,440 --> 02:07:19,120
Speaker 2: should go backwards to that, but when you had to

2234
02:07:19,200 --> 02:07:21,920
Speaker 2: put in that kind of commitment and you've got to

2235
02:07:21,960 --> 02:07:26,120
Speaker 2: slow the process down, it made that connection to that

2236
02:07:26,240 --> 02:07:29,240
Speaker 2: music so much deeper. There's got to be a version

2237
02:07:29,280 --> 02:07:32,840
Speaker 2: of that connection that comes from all of the new

2238
02:07:32,920 --> 02:07:38,200
Speaker 2: media evolution. It's just a question of will it be

2239
02:07:38,480 --> 02:07:41,240
Speaker 2: lasting or is it gonna even get quicker, or is

2240
02:07:41,280 --> 02:07:43,840
Speaker 2: AI going to even fuck it up more? Or our

2241
02:07:43,920 --> 02:07:47,000
Speaker 2: algorithm is gonna take us so much further that that's

2242
02:07:47,040 --> 02:07:49,520
Speaker 2: still I'm sorry to not have a conclusive answer.

2243
02:07:49,720 --> 02:07:52,160
Speaker 1: No, No, that that's a good answer, better answer than most.

2244
02:07:52,880 --> 02:07:56,879
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, is there a number where

2245
02:07:57,400 --> 02:08:01,520
Speaker 1: you'd sell move on, sit on the each or are

2246
02:08:01,560 --> 02:08:03,360
Speaker 1: you going to be eighty five years old? So, man,

2247
02:08:03,400 --> 02:08:05,480
Speaker 1: I just heard a great record. You know, let's get

2248
02:08:05,480 --> 02:08:06,280
Speaker 1: the team together.

2249
02:08:10,120 --> 02:08:12,880
Speaker 2: I want to do it till I'm I'm eighty five

2250
02:08:12,960 --> 02:08:14,920
Speaker 2: years old, but I got to be I have to

2251
02:08:14,920 --> 02:08:19,160
Speaker 2: be realistic. I'm in a business that they don't want

2252
02:08:19,160 --> 02:08:22,240
Speaker 2: to hear from me at my age anymore. I need

2253
02:08:22,280 --> 02:08:25,680
Speaker 2: to be the strategist and the advisor, and I need

2254
02:08:25,720 --> 02:08:29,640
Speaker 2: to have the ego, the humility and not have the

2255
02:08:29,680 --> 02:08:33,920
Speaker 2: ego to put the business in the young people's hands.

2256
02:08:34,000 --> 02:08:37,040
Speaker 2: That that's the downfall of so many in our business.

2257
02:08:38,240 --> 02:08:41,800
Speaker 2: You know, I think I want to stay involved forever.

2258
02:08:42,040 --> 02:08:44,960
Speaker 2: I'm not tired. I love what I do. I love

2259
02:08:45,000 --> 02:08:48,280
Speaker 2: the music. My favorite thing is being with our artists,

2260
02:08:48,280 --> 02:08:51,160
Speaker 2: you know. I love, you know, being on the road

2261
02:08:51,200 --> 02:08:53,840
Speaker 2: with Dell water Gap this past year, touring with him

2262
02:08:53,880 --> 02:08:57,600
Speaker 2: and watching his evolution is one of the most enjoyable

2263
02:08:57,640 --> 02:09:00,280
Speaker 2: things I get to do in my job and my career.

2264
02:09:00,320 --> 02:09:04,000
Speaker 2: I love when Damon Albarne calls me up and asks

2265
02:09:04,040 --> 02:09:06,120
Speaker 2: me to come here what he's working on for Gorillas.

2266
02:09:06,160 --> 02:09:09,280
Speaker 2: I love going to say I declare even though we

2267
02:09:09,320 --> 02:09:12,240
Speaker 2: don't work together on this new current project. Going backstage

2268
02:09:12,240 --> 02:09:16,520
Speaker 2: and seeing her face after she just played ten sold

2269
02:09:16,560 --> 02:09:19,600
Speaker 2: out residency dates in New York and LA and seeing

2270
02:09:19,640 --> 02:09:22,360
Speaker 2: how happy she is with the react That means the

2271
02:09:22,400 --> 02:09:25,640
Speaker 2: world to me. The stuff that drives me nuts. The

2272
02:09:25,680 --> 02:09:29,080
Speaker 2: reason I have all this gray hair is the business

2273
02:09:29,160 --> 02:09:33,040
Speaker 2: is hard. It's challenging as fuck. And the agency business,

2274
02:09:33,200 --> 02:09:36,560
Speaker 2: the media business. I want to see them thrive, and

2275
02:09:36,600 --> 02:09:39,840
Speaker 2: it's it's been relentlessly hard to keep them even going

2276
02:09:39,840 --> 02:09:42,760
Speaker 2: at the levels that we are. So I have to

2277
02:09:42,760 --> 02:09:45,800
Speaker 2: be realistic about where all these businesses are going and

2278
02:09:45,800 --> 02:09:47,880
Speaker 2: what to do. But I want to keep doing it forever.

2279
02:09:48,120 --> 02:09:50,960
Speaker 2: I don't want to bail, but at some point I

2280
02:09:51,000 --> 02:09:53,880
Speaker 2: want to make sure I empower the youth of our

2281
02:09:53,960 --> 02:09:57,120
Speaker 2: company and the future is set up because it's a

2282
02:09:57,160 --> 02:09:59,760
Speaker 2: young people's business, and I think the best people in

2283
02:09:59,800 --> 02:10:04,000
Speaker 2: our business really empower that next generation and support them,

2284
02:10:04,000 --> 02:10:05,240
Speaker 2: and that's what I need to do.

2285
02:10:06,640 --> 02:10:10,520
Speaker 1: John, this has been wonderful. Thanks so much for spending

2286
02:10:10,560 --> 02:10:13,440
Speaker 1: this time with my audience, with the history and the insight.

2287
02:10:14,120 --> 02:10:17,040
Speaker 1: I certainly really appreciate it. I'm sure the listeners will too.

2288
02:10:18,080 --> 02:10:20,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bob, thanks for having me. It was great to

2289
02:10:20,560 --> 02:10:24,000
Speaker 2: spend a couple hours with you, and congrats on all

2290
02:10:24,040 --> 02:10:26,240
Speaker 2: you do. Keep it going. I want you doing it

2291
02:10:26,280 --> 02:10:28,480
Speaker 2: to your one hundred too. I want to keep reading

2292
02:10:28,480 --> 02:10:28,960
Speaker 2: what you're doing.

2293
02:10:29,040 --> 02:10:31,040
Speaker 1: Oh, believe me, I'm going to do it till I die.

2294
02:10:31,880 --> 02:10:33,480
Speaker 2: All right, I'll see you. I'll see you in London

2295
02:10:33,520 --> 02:10:33,960
Speaker 2: against you.

2296
02:10:34,320 --> 02:10:37,640
Speaker 1: Right till next time. This is Bob left six