1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: My own black roller has gone on overlanding Redrow, I don't. 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: Know, I know gone Ninth Planet Audio cat com We're overlanding, You're. 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: No laning over. 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 3: In the late eighties early nineties, they changed the yearbook 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 3: from the Highways Yeah. 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 4: Back to Rebel eight Rebel, and the first page in 7 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 4: color says, go rebels. There's a Confederate flag. I love 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 4: the rebels. People holding the sign that says rebels. We're 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 4: back at the Burlington branch of the Boone County Library 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 4: looking through my high school's yearbooks from the nineteen seventies, eighties, 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 4: and nineties. Wild Okay, I'm seeing a black kape the 12 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 4: hides up. I love that. The cool thing is like 13 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 4: you do start to see like one black person every 14 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 4: now and then. Tim Travis always allowed to sit next 15 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 4: to a blonde white girl. 16 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: This is crazy. 17 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 4: Open a yearbook and they tell you stories. Stories of 18 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 4: hairstyles so big in the nineteen eighties, and of fads 19 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 4: that come and go over the years. Stories of the 20 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 4: dreams that everyone has as they prepare to exit the 21 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 4: liminal space between childhood and adulthood. It's all there in 22 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 4: the pages of the Boone County High School yearbooks as 23 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 4: innocent and hilarious as any yearbook on the planet. But 24 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 4: these tell you another story too. I want to look 25 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 4: at nineteen ninety and the Confederate flags on the front. 26 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 4: Now they have Boone County apparel with the Confederate flag 27 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 4: on it that they're selling in the Spirit shop, And 28 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 4: this is nineteen ninety. These yearbooks tell a story of 29 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 4: decades of Confederate imagery, of the stars and bars flying 30 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 4: over football games, held by cheerleaders, sold in the spirit shop. 31 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 4: They tell the story of a short lived Confederate character 32 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 4: in the nineteen seventies named Buford Bugler, who was there 33 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 4: until he wasn't. They tell the story of and I'm 34 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 4: not kidding here, Slave Day, which was heralded in the 35 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 4: nineteen eighty three yearbook, but the headline Thirteenth Amendment repealed, 36 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 4: where and I quote senior football players and cheerleaders sold 37 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 4: themselves as slaves to the highest bidder in the interest 38 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 4: of school spirit. Slave daylight last two years, then it's 39 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 4: wiped from history. The same thing happens with the Confederate flag, 40 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 4: ubiquitous on page after page in the yearbook until suddenly 41 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 4: it's gone. In nineteen ninety two without any mention, just erased. 42 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 4: And these yearbooks tell the story of the emergence of 43 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 4: mister Rebel, introduced in nineteen ninety three, a big foam 44 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 4: headed Confederate general who becomes the dominant symbol of the school, 45 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 4: replacing the Confederate flag with his own giant, mustached likeness. 46 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 5: Okay, here we go. 47 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 4: School pride gets two thumbs up from me. Mime's the 48 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 4: rebel man. VHS Move says that his name, like, are 49 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 4: we supposed to believe he was rebelman? I thought he 50 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 4: was supposed to be mister Rebel. This is ninety five, Okay, 51 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 4: so nineteen ninety five he's Rebelman at first. Nineteen ninety 52 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 4: eight the cover is mister Rebels. Mister Rebel is on 53 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 4: actually every single page of this so like it's called 54 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 4: the nineteen ninety eight Rebel Rebels. 55 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 6: Set the record straight. Rebel's Rebels Rebels. 56 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 4: It's just like this is clearly like when they were 57 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 4: selling mister Rebel as a brand, seems mister Rebels stretching 58 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 4: with the students. Okay, that's he's everywhere, He's everywhere, Like 59 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 4: what's he doing? Like people say, I have too much 60 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 4: free time to be working on those, but seems like 61 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 4: this man had nothing but time and just to remind 62 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 4: you of his rise and fall. After a decade of 63 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 4: being mister Rebel, the man inside the suit retires in 64 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 4: the mascot lays dormant for a few years until he 65 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 4: re emerges and creates my villain origin story in two 66 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 4: thousand and five. Mister Rebel two point zero dominates the 67 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 4: school and it's yearbooks again until his ultimate retirement in 68 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 4: twenty seventeen. I mean, he's gone and then they just 69 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 4: kind of move on. That's I mean, it's kind of great, 70 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 4: he's nowhere now. As I turn the pages, they're like 71 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 4: and goodbye. When you look back at all of it, 72 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 4: paging through decade after decade, in one sitting, you see 73 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 4: a pattern emerge. You see the Confederate flag everywhere until 74 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,119 Speaker 4: it's nowhere. You see slave Day celebrated and then completely erased. 75 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 4: You see mister Rebels storm the stage until eventually he's 76 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 4: gone too. In that way, these yearbooks tell one more story, 77 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 4: a history of half measures, of trying and failing to 78 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 4: overcome the racism that lies at the core of the 79 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 4: name Rebels by removing parts of it. Hateful bit by 80 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 4: hateful bit, until finally only the rebel name remains. 81 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 2: I was a lady rebel, Like, what does that even need? 82 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 7: The Boone County Rebels will stay, the Boone County Rebels 83 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 7: with the image puts. 84 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 6: Right here in black and white. 85 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 3: The friends bigger than a flag or mask. On anytime 86 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 3: you're trying to mess with tradition, you get to be 87 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 3: ready for a serious. 88 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 4: Backgrash from Ninth Planet Audio. I'm Akila Hughes and this 89 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 4: is Rebel Spirit episode three half measures. 90 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 6: My sophomore year, there was this sort of like shift 91 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 6: where we got. They said, you know, no more rebel flags, 92 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 6: not good, We're going to introduce this. Wait, so this 93 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 6: is nineteen ninety two. 94 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 4: Yeah, ish, okay, so like Rodney King era, just more 95 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 4: like a broader understandings. Yeah. Yes, this is Jenavan Lanningham, 96 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 4: class of nineteen ninety four. Jenna was a student at 97 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 4: exactly the moment that the Confederate flags were packed up 98 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 4: once and for all, and mister rebel was rolled in. 99 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 6: And I went to Buncai High School starting in ninteen 100 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 6: ninety one. My freshman year, I remember rebel flags like 101 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 6: being at football games. I actually was involved in sports, 102 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 6: and we had things with rebel flags on that sort 103 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 6: of not really knowing or understanding what that meant at 104 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 6: all at age thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, but you know, the 105 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 6: adults in the room said, this is not great. We 106 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 6: can't have it at a sporting events or at school anymore. 107 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 4: It's hard to emphasize just how abrupt the shift away 108 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 4: from the Confederate flag at bhs' is. It's on the 109 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 4: cover of yearbooks, it's featured in those already montage pages. 110 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 4: The cheerleaders hold it up, the color guard waves it, 111 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,799 Speaker 4: people buy little flags to waive at games. The Confederate 112 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 4: flag was everywhere, the overarching symbol of the school, and 113 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 4: suddenly what had been the centerpiece of school spirit for 114 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 4: thirty years was gone. Something had to fill the void, 115 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 4: especially because right then all eyes were on Boone County's 116 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 4: football team. 117 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 6: And of course we had this like really awesome football 118 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 6: team at the time with Sean Audit. 119 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 4: She's talking about NFL legend Shawn Alexander. 120 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 6: And we were just like beating teams for Lexington and 121 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 6: Louisville like forty five to seven. 122 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 4: You know. 123 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 6: During the course of that, I think I remember going 124 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 6: to a Preparelli at the football stadium and mister Rebel 125 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 6: was introduced. Somebody had bought the costume and donated the school, 126 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 6: I believe, and they everre somebody was in it, and 127 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 6: there he was clearly a Confederate like Kurnel or something. 128 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 4: When he comes out, is there like excitement? Do you 129 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 4: feel like people are like yes? Or did anybody recognize like, 130 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 4: we don't have Confederate flags anymore? 131 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 6: What is this man doing here? No, I think there's 132 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 6: this excitement. 133 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 4: Local Florence businessman HB. Deathridge, Really, that's his name. Deathridge 134 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 4: was the man both behind and inside the suit. According 135 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 4: to an interview with the Cincinnati Inquirer in two thousand, 136 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 4: he said he bought the suit because, quote before we 137 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 4: had the Confederate flag and I wanted to get that 138 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 4: out of the school. Mister Rebel was brought out for 139 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 4: school spirit and for something for the kids to rally around, 140 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 4: which okay, it could have been a tiger or a 141 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 4: penguin or a biscuit or literally anything else, but it 142 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 4: was a Confederate general. Go figure. This isn't the last 143 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 4: time you'll hear the improbable name Deathridge in this story. 144 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 4: When I wrote my article about changing the mascot. Back 145 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 4: in twenty fifteen, it was Hb's wife, Judy, who emerged 146 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 4: as Miss Rebel's staunchest and most vocal defender in a 147 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 4: letter she wrote to The Inquirer which begins, how can 148 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 4: a supposedly reputable newspaper print something so profoundly incorrect without 149 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 4: checking facts? The forum piece from Akila Hughes is absolutely 150 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 4: full of misinformation and outright lies. I'm a graduate of 151 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 4: Boone County High School and also taught there for fifteen 152 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 4: years beginning in the late nineteen eighties. My husband was 153 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 4: the original Mister Rebel. While there were Confederate flags being 154 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 4: used at the school in the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties, 155 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 4: he was instrumental in getting the Confederate flag removed from 156 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 4: the school, resulting in no backlash, and replacing it with 157 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 4: the blue Rebel flag. During school events, both Mister Rebel 158 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 4: and the administration confiscated Confederate symbols from students. Mister Rebel 159 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 4: never posed in front of a Confederate flag. My husband 160 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 4: fashioned the Mister Rebel mascot from the one at the 161 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 4: University of Nevada, Las Vegas in nineteen ninety. We'll continue 162 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 4: Duty's letter in just a little bit. Trust me, it 163 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 4: gets worse. But let's just make one thing perfectly clear here. 164 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 4: Removing the iconography of the Confederacy is laudable. The Rebel 165 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 4: flag has no place in a high school or anywhere 166 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 4: else outside of a museum. But they replaced the red 167 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 4: and blue stars and bars with a blue and silver 168 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 4: version the same flag, just different colors. And they brought 169 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 4: in a Confederate general to rally behind. And then there's 170 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 4: the band. Wow, the van. The van has the Confederate 171 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 4: like stars and like the bars on their their their 172 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 4: little uniform that they're wearing, like yeah, like cats, yep, 173 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 4: And it looks like there's little Confederate flags on the hats. 174 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 6: What's going on? 175 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 4: Like that looks like Conveederate marching van like for the 176 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 4: Civil War, the Rebel Brigade. 177 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 3: When I was in high school, I remember most just 178 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 3: being in the marching band, which was called the Rebel Brigade. 179 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 3: You just got right into it, yeah, right in there 180 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 3: that is a literal chapter of the KKK, the Rebel Brigade. 181 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 4: Do you think it's a coincidence that they named that? 182 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,719 Speaker 4: Oh gosh, I don't even want to guess this is 183 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 4: Spencer's Imbrot Class of twenty eleven. 184 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 6: Reality is probably not. 185 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 3: I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. 186 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 3: But you know, when you have a Confederate general, a 187 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 3: different Confederate general on a you know, reared back horse 188 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 3: with a sword thrust in the air, I mean, come on. 189 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 3: So they changed it shortly after I left to the 190 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 3: Marching Rebels got it, which really isn't that much better. 191 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 4: Spencer's love of music led him away from Florence. He 192 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 4: went to Louisville to study music, and then to New 193 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 4: York for a graduate degree in orchestral conducting. But he 194 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 4: came home. He's now the artistic director of the Cincinnati 195 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 4: Men's Chorus and teaches music lessons right here in Florence. 196 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 3: How did we get from calling it James Dean to 197 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 3: it being a Confederate general. It makes no sense. It 198 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 3: doesn't hold water. And I think that the fact that 199 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 3: they keep trying to argue this is just doesn't make sense. 200 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 4: Are to be academics, yes, but we're not just talking 201 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 4: with Spencer because he's a Boone County alum. We're talking 202 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 4: with Spencer because he's tried what we're trying four years ago. 203 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 4: In twenty twenty, he started a petition to get the 204 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 4: Rebels name changed at Boone County once and for all. 205 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 3: A big part of it was the times, and it 206 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 3: was all this stuff that was swirling around us. 207 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 4: For anyone who forgot what twenty twenty was like, we 208 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 4: were in a pandemic. Donald Trump was still president, it 209 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 4: was an election year. The dual murders by police of 210 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 4: George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, killed just ninety miles away 211 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 4: in Louisville, set off the largest racial protests since the 212 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 4: Civil Rights movement, and. 213 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:40,559 Speaker 3: It was I mean tangible. 214 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 5: Yeah. 215 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 3: But then a big part of it actually was also 216 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 3: you and that article that you had written about five 217 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 3: years before, and I just remember I looking at the 218 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 3: date of it. I must have just been graduating from 219 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 3: Louisville at that time, and it just had this big 220 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 3: impact where it was like, oh my gosh, ever thing 221 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 3: she's saying is spot on, it's right. I remember something 222 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 3: similar to your experiences happening, and it's just time. It's 223 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 3: been five years since she wrote that. I remember what 224 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 3: the community was saying when she wrote it online and 225 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:21,719 Speaker 3: everything it was very contentious and were five years down 226 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 3: the road. Clearly there's impetus to change. Yes, let's piggyback 227 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 3: off of that. 228 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 4: Spencer wasn't the only former BHS student to speak up 229 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 4: in twenty twenty. His petition sparked others to find their 230 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 4: voice as well. 231 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 2: I had seen that some students and they former students, 232 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 2: they were a lot younger than me, but that they 233 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 2: were doing a petition and I was like, I'm going 234 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 2: to sign this petition. And then I thought like do 235 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 2: people really know why they should sign this petition? Do 236 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 2: they understand why this is important? And I really felt 237 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 2: like for a lot of people, they're just ignorant of it. 238 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,719 Speaker 4: This is Bethany Bowling who graduated from Boone County in 239 00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 4: nineteen ninety eight. 240 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 2: And just like I was ignorant in high school, like 241 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 2: I was a lady rebel, like like what does that 242 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: even mean? But I had a lot of pride in 243 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 2: that as a basketball player, Like we had a really 244 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: good girls basketball team, and I had a lot of 245 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: pride in my school. You know, Shawn Alexander was a 246 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 2: senior when I was a freshman, and we cheered him 247 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: on like it was But when I reflect back on it, 248 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 2: I'm like embarrassed that I didn't even recognize the Rebel 249 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 2: was who he was. 250 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 4: Unlike Spencer who left Florence before coming back, or for 251 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 4: that matter, unlike me who left for good. Bethany has 252 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 4: lived her whole life in Northern Kentucky. After graduating, she 253 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 4: attended Thomas Moore University in nearby Cresview Hills, where she 254 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 4: played basketball while pursuing a degree in biology. Side note, 255 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 4: Thomas Moore's mascot used to be the Rebels as well. 256 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 4: It changed to the Blue Rebels in the early nineties 257 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 4: before becoming the Saints. It can happen. Bethany went on 258 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 4: to get her PhD in Biology and education at the 259 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 4: University of Cincinnati and is currently serving as the interim 260 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 4: dean of the College of Art and Sciences at Northern 261 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 4: Kentucky University. Bethany wrote an op ed for the Lexington 262 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 4: Herald Leader entitled It's time to change the Rebel mascot 263 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 4: at Boone County High School on August eleventh, twenty twenty, 264 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 4: in response to Spencer's petition. 265 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 2: One of the compelling things for me, and I did 266 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 2: mention this in the article as well, is how we 267 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: educate our kids about slavery in this region. And you know, 268 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 2: I shared it on Facebook. There was very little response. 269 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: Did get an email or two that was they felt 270 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 2: like they were from older individuals, kind of countering some 271 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: of the arguments I made around the purpose of the 272 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 2: Civil War, which I think is a kind of it's 273 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: their classic response, exactly, sure, sure it was. So I 274 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: felt like that was, you know, and I don't even 275 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: think I responded to them, but I think a lot 276 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 2: of it was like let's just ignore her and like 277 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 2: this will go away. 278 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 4: Don't go away, or the racist win. We'll be right 279 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 4: back after a short ad break. 280 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 3: When I did my petition, you know, I got it too. 281 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, oh what did they say to you? I mean, 282 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 4: just for the listeners, this is like a very cute, 283 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 4: like blonde hair, blue adzer, Like what did you hear 284 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 4: about it? 285 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 3: So the first thing that I remember is posting in 286 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 3: the Boone County Neighbors Facebook page, and I just left 287 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 3: it there and said, hey, I'm trying to change this. 288 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 3: I'm sure you know many of you feel differently, but 289 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 3: you know, if you'd like to sign here, it is. 290 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 3: And the post was taken down within an hour. But 291 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 3: some of the comments that I read in that time 292 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 3: were about how I must be this New York liberal. 293 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 3: And you know, my Facebook at the time was locked 294 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 3: down pretty heavily, and I can remember them saying, well, 295 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 3: this is a fake profile, even though my name, like 296 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 3: if you live in Boone County, I don't know is 297 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 3: zimbro you know, yeah, exactly, even as far as some 298 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 3: people on there saying how I should be playing in traffic. 299 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: Wow. 300 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 3: Some of my dad's family, actually, I think all of 301 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 3: his siblings either changed their profile picture or something to 302 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 3: mister rebel. 303 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 5: Or you know. 304 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 3: And even one of my aunts posted that she was 305 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 3: disgraced and ashamed that her last name was associated with 306 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 3: the article that came out in the inquiry about what 307 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 3: I was trying to do. 308 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 4: Wow. I was a black woman living in New York 309 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 4: when I wrote my article. I knew there would be backlash, 310 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 4: and I knew I'd be hundreds of miles away from it. 311 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 4: For Spencer, this was his home, these were his neighbors, 312 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 4: this was his family. Imagine choosing this image of the 313 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 4: Confederacy over your own nephew. 314 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 3: I was disappointed, but I wasn't really surprised. Yeah, you know, 315 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 3: people want to cling to what they know and to history. 316 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 3: And you know, these are people that haven't moved away 317 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 3: from the area in you know, sixty years yea. And 318 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 3: when you don't see other opinions, or go away to 319 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 3: school or travel the world in any capacity, it's very 320 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 3: easy to keep your own narrow view of what your 321 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 3: world is. 322 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 4: Absolutely, leaving this place, leaving Florence, leaving Boone County, going 323 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 4: to college, or going anywhere, it gives people a broader perspective. 324 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 4: The pushback that Spencer God, the pushback that I got 325 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 4: was largely from people that viewed us as outsiders for 326 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 4: the simple act of leaving. There's this idea that if 327 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 4: you never leave, that your love of a place is 328 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 4: bigger or truer. But the reality is that when you leave, 329 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 4: you see the world in different ways, you see yourself 330 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 4: in different ways. You grow, you learn, and sometimes you 331 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 4: come back home. But when you do, you want to 332 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 4: do it authentically. Were you out in high school or not? 333 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 3: Really? To a very select few people. 334 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, look, we've been out of school for a minute. 335 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 4: But like, especially when you were there, were there any 336 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 4: other kids who were out that you knew? 337 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 3: Very few, very few being in college and learning about yourself. 338 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 3: You know, the other thing that you learn about that 339 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 3: is the intersectionality of all of these issues too. 340 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 6: You know, I didn't know I was queer. 341 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 4: Then idea away from Florence. Jenna got married and she 342 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 4: and her wife adopted a son, and the thoughts turned 343 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 4: to moving closer to family, to moving back to Florence. 344 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 6: I think there's some sort conservative backlash going on across 345 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 6: both anti racism efforts and with like LGBTQ plus rights. 346 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 4: We met Jenna in that huddle group of progressives outside 347 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 4: the school board meeting where parents were voicing concerns about 348 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 4: the implementation of SB one fifty. And I can't help 349 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 4: but think of all of our struggles as the same 350 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 4: struggle to reckon with history, to call out aggressions, to 351 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 4: show people in charge that they can come join the 352 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 4: movement towards equality if they can ignore a few chicken 353 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 4: shit comments on Facebook, and I guess ignore the strong 354 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 4: feeling of the family who created mister Rebel. 355 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 2: The person who was mister Rebel in the costume was 356 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 2: a great supporter of the athletics and was a very 357 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: caring person. 358 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 6: And this is an adult. As an adult, yeah, is 359 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 6: it possible that this is a to b death Ridge. 360 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 4: Yes, okay, okay, So he's a big supporter of boone. Yeah. 361 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 4: His wife has been rebutting a lot of our articles, 362 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 4: Like you know, I wrote this op ed in twenty fifteen, 363 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,239 Speaker 4: yours came out in twenty twenty. She is always the 364 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 4: first to be like, it couldn't possibly be racist my husband, 365 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 4: And she refers to him as mister rebel, like he's 366 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 4: the guy, you know, purposely brought this mascot. So can 367 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,479 Speaker 4: you tell us a little bit about like what you 368 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 4: remember about him. 369 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 2: He did not work for the school. He's a local businessman. 370 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 2: He was very supportive. He actually announced when the girls 371 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 2: basketball games. 372 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 6: He knew us. 373 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 2: He supported us, you know, when we won the regional tournament, 374 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: which meant we're going to State, which has a big 375 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 2: deal folks in Kentucky. He had t shirts made for 376 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 2: us that we were going to get. He was counting 377 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: on us winning, like spending money counting on us winning 378 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 2: and not even like you know, I might have to 379 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: throw these shirts in the garbage. They don't wait, you 380 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 2: know what I like, he really cared about us as 381 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 2: student athletes. He wanted to support the program, I am 382 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: thinking like it's a caricature for him, it was like 383 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 2: a character, and it wasn't. And they were incredibly good people. 384 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 2: His wife was a teacher at the school and very 385 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 2: dedicated to students. And yeah, so it is a real juxtaposition. 386 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 4: A little more of duty death Ridge's open letter rebuttal 387 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 4: to my article When questions arose in the nineteen nineties 388 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 4: about the rebel nickname, mister Rebel researched it and found 389 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 4: that the first graduating class in nineteen fifty five chose 390 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 4: the name Rebels because of the James Dean movie Rebel 391 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 4: Without a Cause. The name is sanctioned by the Civil 392 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 4: Rights Office. We have the letter from them framed and 393 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 4: hanging in our home. Yes, there is Rebel without a 394 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 4: Cause again. Yes, she calls her own husband mister Rebel. 395 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 4: Yes she's off handedly admitting that there have been questions 396 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 4: about the Rebel name dating all the way back to 397 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 4: the nineties. And no, we have no idea what Civil 398 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 4: Rights off as she's mentioning. Trust me, we've looked. Here's 399 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 4: the last part of that letter. I never witnessed any 400 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 4: of the false allegations Hughes represents in all my years 401 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 4: as a student or teacher. Rebel Pride t shirts were 402 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 4: worn in support of our school, not in support of 403 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 4: the Confederacy. To imply that this was such a reference 404 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 4: is beyond ludacrous. The assumption she makes about fellow students 405 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 4: both then and now are totally without any basis in fact. 406 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 4: For the Inquirer to publish such a racist article does 407 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 4: nothing to create diversity in peace, but rather fosters more 408 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 4: division and controversy. Racism works both ways. Judy Deathridge, Villa Hills, 409 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 4: by the way, Villa Hills is an area that was 410 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 4: owned by a few large slaveholder families and the site 411 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 4: of many escaping slaves crossing the river to Ohio, concentrated 412 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 4: terror over there, just mentioning it. Anyway, We reached out 413 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 4: repeatedly to Judy death Ridge to talk with her in 414 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 4: HB about all of this. She refused, rehashing the same 415 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 4: old story about James Dean and ended by saying, quote 416 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,239 Speaker 4: Boone County High School no longer uses mister Rebel, so 417 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 4: there is nothing to contest and no reason to bring 418 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 4: it up again. 419 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 3: And I can remember in twenty fifteen just almost wanting 420 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 3: to write into the paper and just just correct her. Yeah, 421 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 3: you know when you want to just be your teacher 422 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,719 Speaker 3: and you just want to like it and ask for 423 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 3: evidence and everything. I just wanted to go to a 424 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 3: town on her article with a red pen. My goodness. 425 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 3: But I actually had her as a long term sub 426 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 3: when I was in like computer class at Boone and 427 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 3: I was just so astounded by what she was saying 428 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 3: back to you and clearly just wholesale and validating your 429 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 3: experience because she didn't see it right. 430 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 4: Look through the yearbooks in the nineteen nineties and mister 431 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 4: Rebel is everywhere. He's on the cover, He's posing with everyone. 432 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 4: One year, a drawing of mister Rebel accompanies the numbers 433 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 4: on every single page. Mister Rebel is ubiquitous. He is 434 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 4: Boone County High. Mister Rebel retires in two thousand and one, 435 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 4: and there's a full spread saying goodbye to him in 436 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,719 Speaker 4: the two thousand and two yearbook, complete with a picture 437 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 4: of HB. Deathridge posing in the mister Rebel costume without 438 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 4: the head, his own tiny mustache face dwarfed by mister 439 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 4: Rebel's oversized gray coat. But mister Rebel doesn't stay down 440 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 4: for long. He's back in two thousand and five, having 441 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 4: traded in his coat for a basketball jersey. Piecing together 442 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 4: clues from the yearbooks, it seems HB is no longer 443 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 4: in the suit. Now students get the chance to wear 444 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 4: the big foam Confederate head at pep rallies and football games. 445 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 4: Mister Rebel stays the face of Boone County High School 446 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 4: for another dozen years. He's on shirts, he's on walls, 447 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 4: he's on the gym floor, until in twenty seventeen, finally 448 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 4: someone takes a stamp when the principal at the time, 449 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 4: Tim Schlotman, announces that mister Rebel is going away for good. 450 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: We are a very diverse student community and I didn't 451 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: feel the image of mister Rebel coincided with our global community. 452 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 7: The change took place quietly last summer, not under pressure. 453 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 7: Tim Schlotman says it was not an issue at Boone County, 454 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 7: but the Rebel image no longer fit. He says, the 455 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 7: Rebel name still does. 456 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: There's been no discussion of changing the name. 457 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 3: To his credit, you know, Principal Schlotman did work to 458 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 3: change some of it, and I think he probably got 459 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 3: to the point where he was able to get rid 460 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 3: of the image, but any more than that in the 461 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: community would have just erupted. 462 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 4: We reached out multiple times the Tim Schlotman and his daughters, 463 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 4: who I'm friends with on Facebook. We finally reached him 464 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 4: over text, where he graciously declined to be interviewed for 465 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 4: this podcast, explaining that he was retired from BHS and 466 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 4: his quote no longer involved in this issue. 467 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 5: I actually wrote a letter to the editor to the 468 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 5: Sisaty Inquirer supporting that getting rid of him, because well, 469 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 5: I felt a little loyalty to Principal Schlopman because he 470 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 5: was in my track coach in the early nineties and 471 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 5: I've not talked to him since I've retired, but I 472 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 5: still feel somewhat of a appreciate a large appreciation for him. Yeah, 473 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 5: so I wrote a letter, and then I encouraged my 474 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 5: friends from high school that I'm still in touch with, 475 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 5: like can you just send him an email like telling 476 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 5: me he's stilling the right thing? Like this is good 477 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 5: because there was definitely some backlash. 478 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 4: Those who want to keep the rebel are very comfortable 479 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 4: making their voices heard. It's a uniform demographic. The people 480 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 4: who want it to change and can be vocal like Spencer, 481 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 4: Jenna and Bethany are all white. It's people like me 482 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 4: and people who look like me who have to think 483 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 4: about their safety in a place like Boone. Black on 484 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 4: black with a black kid in the picture. Back in 485 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 4: the Boone County yearbook from nineteen ninety, just two years 486 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,719 Speaker 4: before they finally stopped flying the Confederate flag, there's a 487 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 4: stark reminder of just how white the student body was 488 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 4: at the time. The two black seniors in the entire 489 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 4: graduating class got their own little yearbook article. What did 490 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 4: these two say about their high school experience? Deborah, who 491 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 4: came to Boone as a junior, said, although I felt 492 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 4: out of place at first, I've met friends and everybody's 493 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 4: been friendly. She was pleased that her American history teacher 494 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 4: had dealt with black history in class. Dante felt there 495 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 4: had been times he was the center of attention just 496 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 4: because he was black. He said, white people have stereotypes 497 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 4: about blacks, like if you're black, you're not you're good 498 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 4: at sports, and that's not necessarily true. He wished that 499 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 4: white students understood blacks and black culture better, even though 500 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 4: they were a small part of the class and numbers. 501 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 4: Deborah and Dante added a lot to make the class 502 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 4: of nineteen ninety a memorable one two out of three 503 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 4: hundred and thirty. And they, oh my god. The interview 504 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 4: in the segment is called black on Black. 505 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 5: OK. 506 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 4: That's nineteen ninety. They knew what they were saying, that 507 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 4: is sending. The demographics of Boone County High School have 508 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 4: changed dramatically since the nineties, and those changes are what 509 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 4: led Tim Schloptmann to finally do away with mister Rebel 510 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 4: in twenty seventeen, and they're what leads Spencer Zimbro to 511 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 4: launch his petition in twenty twenty. 512 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 3: At the time that I was doing that petition, I 513 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 3: think it was like twenty four to twenty five percent 514 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 3: of the school was non white. 515 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 5: Yeah. 516 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 3: So now we're looking at one in four students who 517 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 3: are dealing with this racist imagery and that's significant. And 518 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 3: you think about how that affects learning outcomes and how 519 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 3: that affects the psyche of the student. It's it's reprehensible. 520 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 4: So Spencer set up a petition to do right by 521 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 4: these kids, to finally get rid of the Rebel's name. 522 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 4: When we return, Spencer takes his petition to the school 523 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 4: rebel spirit will be right back. Spencer got almost two 524 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 4: thousand signatures to present to the school. Huge. Also, the 525 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 4: top comment with seven hearts is this quote. The mascot 526 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 4: was Goofy and Kentucky was neutral in the Civil War. 527 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 4: So as an institute of learning, it's actually important to 528 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 4: get the history of the state right, get rid of 529 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 4: the nickname Boone County Biscuits is great, and celebrate southern heritage. 530 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 4: Oh wait, that was me. Yeah, I thought biscuits was 531 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 4: a good idea, even during a global pandemic and social uprising. 532 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 4: And yes, I'd completely forgotten i'd written that until Spencer 533 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 4: brought it up. Anyway, Armed with the signatures, Spencer presented 534 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 4: his petition at the public comment section of Boone County's 535 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,719 Speaker 4: School based Decision Making Council. 536 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 3: I just remember going in and seeing familiar faces. I 537 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 3: remember some of my teachers there, and you know, oh, 538 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,479 Speaker 3: it's so good to see you, you know, so instantly 539 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 3: I photaled little bit more comfortable. But I also remember 540 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 3: that kind of making it harder, because you know, when 541 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 3: you're angry and you're doing all this petitioning and stuff, 542 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 3: You're thinking, I'm going to go and I'm going to 543 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 3: make all these demands and then you get there and 544 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 3: you're like, uh so I have an idea. 545 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, like you forget that there is like a respects 546 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 4: there that you have for each other. 547 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 3: And I just remember trying to give the most succinct 548 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 3: rundown of all this information I had gathered and written 549 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 3: in about two and a half minutes, and I think 550 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 3: I still had some time to spare because I just 551 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 3: talked so fast. Yeah, And I just remember after I 552 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 3: did it, they were just like, Okay, thank you. You 553 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 3: can leave because the comment the period public comment portion 554 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 3: is over and it's like, okay, bye. 555 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 4: Spencer. Never heard anything back. For Spencer, that was it. 556 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 4: He'd tried and it was time to move on. He 557 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 4: had a whole life to lead and had burned enough bridges. 558 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 4: And that's exactly what everyone was counting on page to 559 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 4: the and you can see the half measures enacted, the 560 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 4: moments where someone cared enough to try, and the moments 561 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 4: where more people didn't care enough to make anything stick. 562 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 4: That's still happening today. When we came to Florence, we 563 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 4: reached out to the school board, We reached out to 564 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 4: the journalism teacher at Boone County High. We reached out 565 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 4: to the principal, who was an art teacher when I 566 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 4: was there, and what we got was worse than no response. 567 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 4: We got the run around. The board told us to 568 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 4: talk to the school. The school told us to talk 569 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 4: to the board. Emails sent to one person would be 570 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 4: shot down by someone else, entirely with everyone c seed. Finally, 571 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 4: Barbara Bredy you remember her. She sent my number without 572 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 4: asking my permission to a district parent who was young 573 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 4: and black. She was miss June teenth. She explained to me, 574 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 4: repeatedly and willing, I guess, to try and explain to 575 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 4: me why I was wrong about all of this. It 576 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 4: did not go well, So you can't tell me who 577 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 4: I haven't spoken to. My internship of this podcast is 578 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 4: to change the massot by not spoken to you interview. 579 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 4: We've interviewed, but we haven't heard a single metric. I 580 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 4: am pulling teeth right. You are honestly the only person 581 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 4: who was dying on this. 582 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 6: I ask, but why. 583 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 4: I talked with her for over two hours across two 584 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 4: different days, none of it on the record. Afterwards, my 585 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 4: producer and I were left completely perplexed as to why 586 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 4: we were put in touch and what the district had 587 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 4: hoped would come of it. So there's just a lot 588 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 4: to unpack, and I'm like, something something here just. 589 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 6: Isn't passing the smell test. Like I don't know, because 590 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 6: you still don't know what what the like intention was, right? 591 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 3: Is it a warning? 592 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 4: I never even got to ask about the process for 593 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 4: these things, you know, like where they sort of are 594 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 4: with it, like there are meetings. Definitely. 595 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: It is wild to me how talking about a school 596 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: mascot has led to so much off the record. 597 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 4: The intention of this podcast was not to discredit this person, 598 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 4: but I'm like, if this is the black person they 599 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 4: feel comfortab putting in front of anyone with an inquiry 600 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 4: and they're not vetting it, that's crazy. While it's still 601 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 4: unclear what it all meant, one thing that was perfectly 602 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,479 Speaker 4: clear is that making change happen in Florence is an 603 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 4: uphill battle. 604 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 3: If I had to go back in time to twenty 605 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 3: twenty and redo that whole process, I think the first 606 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 3: thing that I would have done differently is start a dialogue. 607 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 3: I've grown since then, same And it's hard, you know, 608 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 3: when you're really that angry to do anything except lash out. 609 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 3: And I didn't know how to do anything differently. You 610 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 3: have to go to several site based council meetings. You 611 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 3: have to make it a prolonged effort. And I thought 612 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 3: that I was just going to magically, you know, slap 613 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 3: a petition in his face and suddenly, oh, well we 614 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 3: should change. 615 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, we're not just talking about change in the abstract. 616 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 4: We're talking about how change really happens. It's not some 617 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,959 Speaker 4: lone hero swooping in to save the day. Real change, 618 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 4: the kind that sticks, comes from us banning together, forming 619 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 4: a coalition of folks who give a damn. Now, we 620 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 4: got to roll up our sleeves and get to work together. Sure, 621 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 4: there will be doubters, there will be folks who will 622 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 4: say it can't be done, that we're wasting our time. 623 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 4: But you know what. Yearbooks don't just tell the stories 624 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 4: of a class or of an era. They tell our 625 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 4: own stories too. Page through the two thousand and five 626 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 4: Boone County High School yearbook, and there I am staring 627 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 4: out from my senior picture, looking impossibly young. There I 628 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 4: am posing on the jim bleachers, mister Rebel on the 629 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 4: wall looming over us, with the forensics team, the concert choir, 630 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 4: and yes, the yearbook staff looking over the looping cursive 631 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 4: notes today, nearly twenty years later. Some are laugh out loud, funny, 632 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 4: some are heartbreaking. All of them transport me back to 633 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 4: when I was leaving BCHS, getting ready to embark on 634 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 4: a life that led me away from Florence until now 635 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 4: it's brought me back. And in the yearbook near the end, 636 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 4: there's one note that stands out among them arrest. Two 637 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 4: words never change. Looking at the girl I was then 638 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 4: and the woman I am now, I haven't, but looking 639 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 4: at decades of yearbooks in one sitting, it's clear how 640 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 4: much a BHS has and now it's time for the 641 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 4: Boone County Rebels to change too. Rebel Spirit is a 642 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 4: production of Ninth Planet Audio and association with iHeart Podcasts. 643 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 4: Reporting and writing by me Akila Hughes. I'm also an 644 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 4: executive producer and the host. Produced by Dan Sinker, edited 645 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 4: by Josie A. 646 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 5: Zahm Our. 647 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 4: Assistant editor is Jennifer Dean. Music composed by Charlie Sun, 648 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 4: Sound design and mixing by Josia zahmb Our. Theme song 649 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 4: is all the Things I Couldn't Say, performed by Bussy 650 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 4: and the Bass courtesy of Arts and Crafts Productions, Inc. 651 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 4: Our production coordinator is Kyle Hinton, Our clearance coordinator is 652 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 4: Anna Sun Andshine Production accounting by dip Sing. Additional research 653 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,720 Speaker 4: support from Janice Dillard. Executive producers from Ninth Planet Audio 654 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 4: are Elizabeth Baquet and Jimmy Miller. Special thanks to Jay 655 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 4: Becker and the whole team at BLDG, the Florence y'alls, 656 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 4: Amber Hoffmann, Hillary Delaney. 657 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 6: And Leslie Chambers. 658 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 4: If you have a racist mascot at your high school, 659 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 4: or are an alumni of a high school with a 660 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 4: racist mascot and want to share your own experience, please 661 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 4: email us at Rebel Spirit Podcast at gmail dot com. 662 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 4: We would love to hear from you.