WEBVTT - A Financial Adviser’s Take on Bitcoin ETFs 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:06.160 Welcome shiness. 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:07.720 I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Belchernis. 0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:14.920 Remember that time that ETF we had, We simply have 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:17.159 bitcoin ETFs. What's the what the other side of that 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:19.440 been like for you? Is it a big come down? Eric? 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:21.880 A little. I've phased out slowly, Joel. I didn't want 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.240 to go cold turkey, right, so I in fact, I 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:27.200 was telling, uh, somebody somebody like, oh, what are the 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.120 stats for day eleven? And I'm like, look, I'm phasing out. 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:32.640 Now go track this other site. I'm going to point 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:34.839 out things that are interesting, but I'm not doing like 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:36.680 a daily look at the race every day. 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:37.479 Uh. 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.239 These ETFs are up and running. By all measures, it 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:42.720 was a fantastic success, although it's been a little clouded. 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:46.800 The GBTC outflows have kind of made this an interesting launch. 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:49.599 It's not launch, it's just all volume is inflows here. 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.440 You have this unlock of GBTC. So it's been a 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.920 complicated launch with eleven of them, but largely I would 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:58.920 say it's successful. Black Rock and Fidelity leading the way 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:01.720 ark and bitwise having a lot of success. We're talking 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:03.600 already in the billions of dollars after two weeks it's 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:05.400 pretty good. So now I'm you know, I got to 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:07.080 work on my Vanguard primer. I've got to do this 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.959 ETF survey. We did, and we're starting to phase out 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.120 a bit from it, but it's still going to be 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:14.640 probably like one of the biggest stories of the year 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:16.919 as we roll into you know, the spring and summer 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:17.319 for sure. 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.280 So one thing we haven't done is talk to a 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:21.960 financial advisor about any of this. Who'd you bring today? 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.280 Yeah, I thought we just all issuers. And I've been 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:27.880 going out on media when this was coming up, and 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.839 I've been saying that a target market of this launch 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:34.399 is the advisor world and advisors that managed thirty trillion dollars. 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.760 I mean, they control all of the boomer money in 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:41.040 America pretty much, and that's largely who these ETFs are 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.520 aimed at. And advisors love ETFs, they trust them, they 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.080 like the low fees, and so we should talk to 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:49.920 somebody who actually uses them or doesn't use them and 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.360 has to sort through which one to pick. And the 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.240 guy we have with this is Douglas Bonaparte, and he 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.960 is a Twitter celebrity. I think an ex celebrity Twitter 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.040 sounds better. Still, I got to be honest. Okay, he's 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.040 a Twitter celebrity. If you haven't follow him his self 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:07.440 deprecating tweets are really funny, like he's and he's just 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:10.639 got he's a human on Twitter, you know, and it's nice. 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:12.799 And he's a good advisor. He's part of what I 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:16.200 would call the big long advisors. These are advisors who 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:18.639 are the opposite the big short people. They don't see 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.880 bubbles and everything, but rather they see the optimism in everything, 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:23.399 and they're trying to get their clients just to hang 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.400 in there, so the magic of compound and could kick in. 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:27.400 So in my opinion, they're part of the sort of 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.200 new generation of just just hang in there, keep costs low. 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:31.680 Let the magic happened advisors. 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.000 Okay, joining us this time Douglas Bonaparte. He's the president 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:40.639 and founder of Bona Fide Wealth. This time on trillions, 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:45.000 a little bitcoin in that portfolio. Douglas, welcome with trillions, 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.120 Happy to be here. Okay, So I want to talk 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.000 about how you speak with clients, but we want to 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.160 start with this bitcoin thing, Like, at what point did 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.200 you start telling folks now's the time to actually do this, 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:59.880 and how is that conversation different today than it was 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:00.639 a year ago. 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.920 Oh, it's still happening, very very slowly, almost in real time. 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.840 When those ETFs debuted, I was the first person to 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.520 place a trade in my own account, just to see 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.000 what this would be like, do we have discretionary on 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:15.799 these you know, discretion on these trades? Do they need 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:19.560 to be marked solicited? I noticed that I needed to 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:24.200 mark my first trade as unsolicited, and that prompted a 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:26.639 call like, hey, what can we do with this? And 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.799 the answer was, we're having conversations around this. So take 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.280 that for what it is. I mean, you have wirehouses, 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.440 you have broker dealers, you have everybody starting to develop 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.040 their policy around this, and I don't think anyone really 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.280 did anything until it actually debuted the skepticism that was 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.600 out there. You know, why why move resources around or 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:47.720 have these conversations until we know we can actually put 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:48.960 them inside a brokerage account. 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.960 But just explain this solicit unsolicited, Just just break down 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:52.560 what that means. 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.000 Absolutely so in my world, if you're managing money on 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.560 behalf of a client, you have three ways that you 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.440 can go about placing orders. The first one, let's go 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.240 with discretion. That means the advisor has the ability to place, buy, 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:05.760 or sell orders. 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:06.520 As they please. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.320 They don't need to call the client and say, hey, 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:10.120 you know, this is what we're going to do. We 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:14.720 have discretion makes sense if not, you have unsolicited versus solicited. 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.599 Solicited means that the broker or in this case, advisor 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:20.800 is going out to their clients to say, hey, I 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.000 think this should be in your account. Can I place 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:24.800 this trade? And they would say, yeah, I want that 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.280 versus unsolicit. That's the other way around. Client calls you, hey, 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.039 buy me one hundred schairs of Microsoft. That was an 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.039 unsolicited So what they're saying, and for the longest time 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.200 for broker dealers, that would allow there to be something, 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:39.640 in this case gray Scale, that was one of the 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.039 very few options that you would see allowed inside a 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.320 brokerage account that was compatible. A lot of broker dealers 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:48.960 would say, you can't go out to your client and say, hey, 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.120 you know, I recommend that you put let's say gray 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:54.159 Scale in your portfolio. They would have to call you 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.520 and say I want exposure to bitcoin, and you would say, okay, 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.120 the only option I have here are these tools, and 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.159 then you would take that order, maybe even have to 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.600 sign some paperwork or do a little bit of disclosure here. 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.320 That's and that's a function of the compliance offices who 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.920 are naturally skittish around cryptocurrencies. 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.720 What about having conversations with your clients and you know, 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:19.800 this looks like a pretty risky assetah with no real 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:25.919 meaningful applications. Yet how do you balance that as somebody 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:29.200 who's got the you know, fiduciary responsibilities that you do. 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.039 So I think you have a fiduciary responsibility to educate 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:34.440 your clients if they're asking about this, and unless you 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:36.479 are living under a rock over the last let's say 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:40.360 five to seven years and your I don't know how 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.159 your clients weren't asking about crypto or bitcoin, and I 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.560 think it's our job to educate them. And most compliance 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:48.400 offices again are like, hey, don't touch this with a 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.560 ten foot poll. I mean, that's a tough spot to 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.160 be in, right. So here I am wanting to educate, 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.720 but you might be told, hey, don't talk about this. 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.960 That's number one now comes the product, right And I 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.159 think banks and institutions are still trying to figure that out. 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.240 I'm not going to put myself in the position that 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.320 I was like, hey, I can't wait for this to 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:10.560 come out so we can just. 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:12.679 Start to load portfolios with it. 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.760 It's probably more the stance of all right, when this 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:18.320 is kosher right, and we get approval to do what 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:21.280 we want to do, Let's say, have discretion. How can 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.120 we build models or integrate this into our risk adjusted 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:26.719 portfolio so that we could offer clients, Hey, are you 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:27.680 educated on this? 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:28.520 This this something you want? 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.760 We're now offering portfolios that maybe have a five percent allocation. 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:33.280 That data is out there. 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.680 I mean, we've got ten plus years of data on 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:39.560 bitcoin to see and almost like any brochure from I 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:41.720 remember Gray Scale having one, what would happen if you 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.599 added one too? Up to five percent of bitcoin on 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.080 an eighty twenty or sixty forty portfolio. Those results were 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:51.040 pretty compelling. I mean there wasn't a single time like wow, 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:55.240 non correlated generated alpha. That's because bitcoin has had a 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:59.480 magnificent ten years. So you have the public, you know, 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.640 from not knowing a thing about it twenty thirteen fourteen 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:04.920 all the way to everyone and their grandmother knowing about 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.960 it twenty Thanksgiving twenty seventeen, twenty thousand dollars, and then 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:10.560 you know from there on, here we go. We got 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:12.880 a lot of rides in there, so everybody knows what 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:17.600 this is now, and we're just seeing the you know, 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.880 broker dealer, investment advisory world get this new shiny object 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:22.040 and we're going to figure out what they're going to 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.880 do with it. I'm still figuring out what, you know, 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.000 we can do, how to roll it out, how to 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:30.640 package that with a maybe handful of clients that are 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:32.840 like all right, it's go time, and there's a reason 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:33.080 for that. 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:35.680 Let's talk about the client. So of all your clients, 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.360 what percent do you think would be interested or are 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:42.840 you planning to maybe allocate one of these bitcoin ETFs 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:43.560 into their portfolio? 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:44.840 And give us a little bit of a primer on 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.239 like how many clients you have, how much money are overseeing? 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:49.480 Yeah, we got over one hundred and fifty households. 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.400 We're seeing close to ninety two one hundred million dollars 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:55.800 in assets and under management. But the thing you need 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.000 to know about my practice is how young it's skews. 0:07:58.040 --> 0:07:59.720 I'm thirty nine, and I would say the average age 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:01.080 of our client is mid. 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:01.760 To late thirties. 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.720 And you know, you said in the beginning, like boomers 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:07.720 love eat you know, boomers would love this, and I 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:12.000 agree with that because five years ago, the number of 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:16.920 clients that would have a question, want exposure or think 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:21.480 about having exposure was relatively low. And four years from that, 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:24.520 you know, I would say one in four clients would 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:26.200 want to know more about it. I mean, it just 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:30.960 ballooned the interest in this. My point being here, My 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:35.040 clients that have exposure don't don't need an ETF, all right, 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:39.200 they've already figured out how to use coinbase or have 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.720 already been indoctrinated in how crypto works. But for the 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.840 clients that do skew older, Yeah, there's been some inbound 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:47.600 calls to say, hey, this is out, can we do 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:48.199 something with this. 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.319 How do you use ETFs in general in your portfolios? 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.439 Yeah, I mean we use ETFs primarily in our portfolios. 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.199 Our core risk adjusted model is maybe six ETFs from 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:00.559 large cap all the way down to you know, emerging 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.480 markets and bond funds. We do like to use some 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:05.199 active strategies for a fixed income. 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.760 So let's talk about the older clients who have some 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.600 inbound calls. I had my mom over last Sunday, Joel, 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.840 and she saw me talking about biccoin ETFs on etfiq 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.920 for like three weeks straight, and she's like, you know, 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.040 someone needs to do a show for me and my 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.040 friends and talk to us like we're second graders. What 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:25.640 this all means to me? It all just seems like 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:29.920 funny money in space. That was her but Space money. Yeah, 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.360 he's closed. But she said I wouldn't have looked at 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.360 it before because the SEC said it was bad. Now 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:38.480 that these are out, I you know, i'd consider it 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:39.760 that alone. 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.320 Did you tell her to read Chairman's Leonard? 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:46.960 I don't recommend. The only thing I recommend to my 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:48.640 mom is just trying to keep cost slow. I don't 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.600 really I don't want to get involved with like pushing 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.200 my mom my family members. I don't want. Yeah, I 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.280 told her what I think, you know, I you know. 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.240 To me, I'm it's a little like, you know, religion. 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.200 To me, it's like I'm gonna believe in the mystery 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.880 a little bit here. I'm not negative, but I'm not 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.360 all in. But I'm like, I try. I respect it 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:12.160 because of how relentless it is and how creative and 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.440 intelligent some of the people in the space are. That 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.440 that is what I think. You're kind of betting on. 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:20.920 But the older people when they call you a was 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.400 the sec approval and you know Larry Fink on Fox 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.839 talking about it, was that sort of what made them 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.920 feel comfortable. And when they ask you about it, are 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.000 they interested in like a little hot sauce or do 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.240 they think it's like an alternative to you? Or are 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.120 any of them really into this like Mad Max potential 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.920 world where all the societies break down and bitcoin is 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:42.400 the currency that everybody. 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.000 Uses, like in a gold kind of way. 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:45.840 Right, Yeah, see there's the word. You just said it, 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:47.880 But no they don't, So I'm glad you said gold. 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.760 They don't think the Mad Max, you know, got to 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:52.920 build a bomb shelter, you know, doom shelter in the 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:57.360 backyard type scenario. I think a few things. I think, Look, 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.000 there's bias that I have. I've been involved in bitcoin 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.840 and you know and having mind it back in twenty fourteen. 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.280 I've written articles about this. I've shared my thoughts and 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.360 feelings around this and clients who've been with me for 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.240 a while. No, no, my story. So on one hand, 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.679 they might think like, oh, Doug, Doug likes this, has 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.280 been doing this and has been successful in this, should 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.520 I follow suit with him, and I urge caution there. 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:19.800 You know, just because I've had success in this and 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.840 took the risk you know, long ago, doesn't mean you should, 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.199 you know, do that. Just don't don't you know, monkey 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.960 see monkey do kind of thing. But you mentioned gold, right, 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.200 and I think this is the best way. Now. I 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.920 keep it very simple. I believe that there's room for 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:38.959 digital gold, an asset that's an asset class that's digital 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:43.480 store of value. Let's just stop right there, right, I 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.640 think there's space for that. Do you think bitcoins half 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.040 as good as good, a quarter is good, double as 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.000 good as gold? Then you can kind of get an 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.040 idea if now what, depending on what your belief is, 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:54.679 you get idea of where you think it's gonna go. 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.680 All right, I know gold can be turned into jewelry, right, 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.800 but when you're fleeing a country you want to Yeah, 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:02.640 you're gonna interrupt me. 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:06.800 I am because if you charted bitcoin and gold, bitcoin 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:09.640 makes gold look like a money market fundah in terms 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:15.360 of the chart. So I thought that bitcoin for even 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:19.320 boomers would be used as a Foamo cure. Like Look, Doug, 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.480 I don't really care about this, Douglas Douglas. Sorry, we're 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.520 good gonna happen. This might have taken me a couple 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.040 of tries, Joel. I just know you as Doug. I 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:31.600 don't know why, and we don't even know each other 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.040 that well, but you're Doug to me, Doug. Okay, Douglas, 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.319 it's my fault, Okay, I made this. Sorry, all right, 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.680 So Douglas, listen. I I just don't want to kick 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:43.160 myself in ten years, and let's just put two percent. 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.600 Don't mess with my sixty forty. I like that. That's 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.760 how I think they think. Yep. But the right the 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.360 gold argument to me is a little more like, hey, Doug, 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:53.360 put some gold in the fund, just because I want 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.280 something that's non correlated, possible hedge. It's not always a hedge, no, 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.439 but gold to me is much more stable. 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:01.000 Yeah. 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.479 It just seems like gold is an alternative and bitcoin's 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:05.240 hot sauce and fomo cure. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:09.400 Well, two things can be true, right, They can cure 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.920 their fomo and get access to an alternative aset class 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:16.040 that's non correlated. I just compare it to gold because 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.040 it's the best comp that I got. You know, sure, 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:20.839 you're right, you know, look at those look at those 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.920 performance charts. Then again, Bitcoin's only been around ten years, 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.199 so comparing a ten year timeline to gold's ever existence, 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.439 you know, is kind of a tough comparison. You've got 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.959 technology imbued in this thing, the blockchain, you know, you 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.400 got a lot. Yo is Saitochi Nakamoto hiding in a 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.240 bush around the corner, and he's just gonna pop out 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.480 and be like gotcha, and you know, boom, everyone's everyone's 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.120 been suckered, Like it's in the back. 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:43.760 Of everyone's mind. Let's not kid ourselves. 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:45.679 But no, you know, I don't. I don't think that's 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:47.480 the case here. But I think both of those things 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.320 can be true. I think we can view it as 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.080 a digital form of store of value. Yeah, that's the joke, 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.120 like store of value, Like, look at that chart. How 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.959 many eighty percent draw downs have I lived through all 0:13:58.000 --> 0:13:58.200 of it? 0:13:58.360 --> 0:13:59.120 Like all of them? 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.840 Like, I think three at this point, if not more, 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.400 you know, and then fifty or twenty percentowns unlimited? Is 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.880 that something you know people look to when they say 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.520 store of value And the answer is probably no. But 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.559 do we get to something that's more steady state after 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.360 we get to indoctrinating or a mass adoption. I don't 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:21.160 think we've adopted, you know, to the degree that you know, 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.680 gold or you know, your main stay asset classes have 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:25.120 not even close to it. 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.680 So now that we actually have legit products that you 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:38.400 can you know, trade on on exchanges, how do you 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.120 go about evaluating those options? 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.680 Like which of those eleven we're going to do well 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:45.440 in our portfolio? 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.040 As we lean heavy on black Rock? Shout out, guys, 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:50.680 I share it, and I'm agnostic, Like, if my client 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.280 wants Vanguard over you know, black Rock. 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:54.520 Well work in the scenario. 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:57.840 No, but it would not, you know, apparently it's not 0:14:57.960 --> 0:14:59.560 mature of enough of an asset here. 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.360 But we're hold on just quick background. So what we're 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.440 referring to is Vanguard has a brokerage platform and they 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:09.200 basically said we will not let the bitcoin ETFs trade 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:12.280 on here, even though they do allow golditfs roll. Obviously, 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.000 Vanguard doesn't love commodities in general because they don't have 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:19.440 any actual like intrinsic value, But when it comes to gold, 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:23.240 at least there's a use. They say, so Vanguard really 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.760 and all the crypto people are triggered. They want to 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.400 take their like, boycott Vanguard is trending, and I'm like, listen, 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.760 you are not going to take down Vanguard. They get 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.720 so crazy. But I don't, you know, I don't know 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.800 why Vanguard. In my opinion, Vanguard's just trust their clients 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.120 a little more sure. But they don't allow leverage either, 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.680 so it's somewhat on brand. Vanguard's like a family friendly 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:43.560 audience kind of thing. 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.200 But I mean I made a joke at their expense 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.120 because everybody was let's be honest, they got memed by me. 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.120 But you know that that is the point, like at 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:55.320 least they don't offer those triple leverage you know, or 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.040 triple long, triple short or whatever, you know, typer whisky stuff, 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.240 so that remains on brand for them. I could it, 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:02.400 and you know, and the Bitcoin iss would be like 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.840 long term, this is a terrible move. You know, well 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.720 if their clients aren't demanding it, first of all, like 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.720 their clients can you know, buy this in another brokerage account. 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.800 I mean, the sensitivity around you know, Bitcoin Maximalist is 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:16.320 super high, and I don't fancy much. 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.680 It's also isn't there some irony in them getting pissed 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.760 off about Vanguard? Because hey, we're supposed to be outside 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:24.560 of the system. It's a currency outside of the system. 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.520 And now we're pissed off that someone like the literally 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.200 the largest asset manager in the United States won't accept us. 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:35.160 Isn't that kind of Isn't there a a inconsistency there? 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.720 Well, there's irony that black Rock has the biggest one, 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:39.960 you know, and then the second biggest you know, or 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:44.120 first because you know the day of the week. It 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.200 just shows you how new this all is and how 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:47.720 people are figuring it all out. 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.040 I'm not sure there's a lot of. 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:53.080 Smart minds at these institutions. But the thing about bitcoin 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:55.280 and crypto is you said it, how many smart minds 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.880 are now existing outside of this. If you're a bitcoin maximalist, 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:02.200 you're probably pissed off and etf exists in the first place. 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.800 Like that is not the spirit of what a decentralized 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:07.639 currency called bitcoin is supposed to be. 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:08.120 I mean, it. 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.720 Literally was forged in the Occupy Wall Street days, like 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:12.600 fight the banks. 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:17.720 Yeah, it seems like like when I'm uh like like back, 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:19.679 like you know, twenty years ago when rock band started 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.280 selling their songs to commercials, like you saw like a 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:24.760 led Zeppelin song on a four truck and it pissed 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.040 people off. Yeah, it's the same vibe, you know. It's like, 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.760 but I think you know, there's also the number go up. 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.120 It's helpful for that so I can Sometimes there's there's 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.280 pure number go up people, but then there's more like 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:37.480 I'm in it for the religion and I can see 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.040 and then some people have both inside of them and 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:40.120 there's they're so tribal. 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.840 We're so tribal in everything now, Like you either are 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.199 a maximalist or you're a Wall Street suit. And I'm 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.760 wearing a suit today and I'm an og bitcoin guy. Yeah, 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:49.680 but not a max. 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:51.600 They call me a suit and a boomer and I'm 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:53.840 gen X and I rarely wear suits only on the 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.000 TV show and it's our gray hair. They're calling me 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.960 a boomer. Now, well, my kid calls anybody over the 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.080 age of like seventeen boomer one hundred percent. 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.480 Yeah, So back to nuts and bolts of like how 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.520 you actually bring this into a portfolio for clients, Like 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:08.720 what is this displacing in your client's portfolio? 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:14.080 It's replacing large cap equities and developed international. So if 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.679 you wanted a five percent allocation. The first trade we 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:22.040 made unsolicited boomer client calling up, I want five percent 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:23.920 exposure in my sixty to forty portfolio. 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.920 Literally that so that happened. That happened. Nice that happened. 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.280 And I saw that. Did theave request the actual tick 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:30.840 or two or just you pick it. 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:35.960