1
00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:06,160
Speaker 1: Welcome shiness.

2
00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:07,720
Speaker 2: I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Belchernis.

3
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,920
Speaker 1: Remember that time that ETF we had, We simply have

4
00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,159
Speaker 1: bitcoin ETFs. What's the what the other side of that

5
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 1: been like for you? Is it a big come down? Eric?

6
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:21,880
Speaker 2: A little. I've phased out slowly, Joel. I didn't want

7
00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,240
Speaker 2: to go cold turkey, right, so I in fact, I

8
00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,200
Speaker 2: was telling, uh, somebody somebody like, oh, what are the

9
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,120
Speaker 2: stats for day eleven? And I'm like, look, I'm phasing out.

10
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,640
Speaker 2: Now go track this other site. I'm going to point

11
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:34,839
Speaker 2: out things that are interesting, but I'm not doing like

12
00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:36,680
Speaker 2: a daily look at the race every day.

13
00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:37,479
Speaker 3: Uh.

14
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,239
Speaker 2: These ETFs are up and running. By all measures, it

15
00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,720
Speaker 2: was a fantastic success, although it's been a little clouded.

16
00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,800
Speaker 2: The GBTC outflows have kind of made this an interesting launch.

17
00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,599
Speaker 2: It's not launch, it's just all volume is inflows here.

18
00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 2: You have this unlock of GBTC. So it's been a

19
00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,920
Speaker 2: complicated launch with eleven of them, but largely I would

20
00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,920
Speaker 2: say it's successful. Black Rock and Fidelity leading the way

21
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,720
Speaker 2: ark and bitwise having a lot of success. We're talking

22
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,600
Speaker 2: already in the billions of dollars after two weeks it's

23
00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:05,400
Speaker 2: pretty good. So now I'm you know, I got to

24
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,080
Speaker 2: work on my Vanguard primer. I've got to do this

25
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 2: ETF survey. We did, and we're starting to phase out

26
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,120
Speaker 2: a bit from it, but it's still going to be

27
00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,640
Speaker 2: probably like one of the biggest stories of the year

28
00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,919
Speaker 2: as we roll into you know, the spring and summer

29
00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:17,319
Speaker 2: for sure.

30
00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,280
Speaker 1: So one thing we haven't done is talk to a

31
00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,960
Speaker 1: financial advisor about any of this. Who'd you bring today?

32
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought we just all issuers. And I've been

33
00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 2: going out on media when this was coming up, and

34
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,839
Speaker 2: I've been saying that a target market of this launch

35
00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,399
Speaker 2: is the advisor world and advisors that managed thirty trillion dollars.

36
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,760
Speaker 2: I mean, they control all of the boomer money in

37
00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,040
Speaker 2: America pretty much, and that's largely who these ETFs are

38
00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,520
Speaker 2: aimed at. And advisors love ETFs, they trust them, they

39
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 2: like the low fees, and so we should talk to

40
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,920
Speaker 2: somebody who actually uses them or doesn't use them and

41
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,360
Speaker 2: has to sort through which one to pick. And the

42
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,240
Speaker 2: guy we have with this is Douglas Bonaparte, and he

43
00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,960
Speaker 2: is a Twitter celebrity. I think an ex celebrity Twitter

44
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,040
Speaker 2: sounds better. Still, I got to be honest. Okay, he's

45
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 2: a Twitter celebrity. If you haven't follow him his self

46
00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 2: deprecating tweets are really funny, like he's and he's just

47
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,639
Speaker 2: got he's a human on Twitter, you know, and it's nice.

48
00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,799
Speaker 2: And he's a good advisor. He's part of what I

49
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,200
Speaker 2: would call the big long advisors. These are advisors who

50
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,639
Speaker 2: are the opposite the big short people. They don't see

51
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,880
Speaker 2: bubbles and everything, but rather they see the optimism in everything,

52
00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:23,399
Speaker 2: and they're trying to get their clients just to hang

53
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 2: in there, so the magic of compound and could kick in.

54
00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,400
Speaker 2: So in my opinion, they're part of the sort of

55
00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,200
Speaker 2: new generation of just just hang in there, keep costs low.

56
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:31,680
Speaker 2: Let the magic happened advisors.

57
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,000
Speaker 1: Okay, joining us this time Douglas Bonaparte. He's the president

58
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:40,639
Speaker 1: and founder of Bona Fide Wealth. This time on trillions,

59
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 1: a little bitcoin in that portfolio. Douglas, welcome with trillions,

60
00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,120
Speaker 1: Happy to be here. Okay, So I want to talk

61
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,000
Speaker 1: about how you speak with clients, but we want to

62
00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,160
Speaker 1: start with this bitcoin thing, Like, at what point did

63
00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,200
Speaker 1: you start telling folks now's the time to actually do this,

64
00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,880
Speaker 1: and how is that conversation different today than it was

65
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:00,639
Speaker 1: a year ago.

66
00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,920
Speaker 4: Oh, it's still happening, very very slowly, almost in real time.

67
00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,840
Speaker 4: When those ETFs debuted, I was the first person to

68
00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,520
Speaker 4: place a trade in my own account, just to see

69
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,000
Speaker 4: what this would be like, do we have discretionary on

70
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,799
Speaker 4: these you know, discretion on these trades? Do they need

71
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,560
Speaker 4: to be marked solicited? I noticed that I needed to

72
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:24,200
Speaker 4: mark my first trade as unsolicited, and that prompted a

73
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,639
Speaker 4: call like, hey, what can we do with this? And

74
00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,799
Speaker 4: the answer was, we're having conversations around this. So take

75
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,280
Speaker 4: that for what it is. I mean, you have wirehouses,

76
00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,440
Speaker 4: you have broker dealers, you have everybody starting to develop

77
00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 4: their policy around this, and I don't think anyone really

78
00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,280
Speaker 4: did anything until it actually debuted the skepticism that was

79
00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,600
Speaker 4: out there. You know, why why move resources around or

80
00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 4: have these conversations until we know we can actually put

81
00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:48,960
Speaker 4: them inside a brokerage account.

82
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,960
Speaker 2: But just explain this solicit unsolicited, Just just break down

83
00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 2: what that means.

84
00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,000
Speaker 4: Absolutely so in my world, if you're managing money on

85
00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,560
Speaker 4: behalf of a client, you have three ways that you

86
00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 4: can go about placing orders. The first one, let's go

87
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,240
Speaker 4: with discretion. That means the advisor has the ability to place, buy,

88
00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:05,760
Speaker 4: or sell orders.

89
00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:06,520
Speaker 2: As they please.

90
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:08,320
Speaker 4: They don't need to call the client and say, hey,

91
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:10,120
Speaker 4: you know, this is what we're going to do. We

92
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,720
Speaker 4: have discretion makes sense if not, you have unsolicited versus solicited.

93
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,599
Speaker 4: Solicited means that the broker or in this case, advisor

94
00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,800
Speaker 4: is going out to their clients to say, hey, I

95
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,000
Speaker 4: think this should be in your account. Can I place

96
00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:24,800
Speaker 4: this trade? And they would say, yeah, I want that

97
00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,280
Speaker 4: versus unsolicit. That's the other way around. Client calls you, hey,

98
00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,039
Speaker 4: buy me one hundred schairs of Microsoft. That was an

99
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,039
Speaker 4: unsolicited So what they're saying, and for the longest time

100
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,200
Speaker 4: for broker dealers, that would allow there to be something,

101
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,640
Speaker 4: in this case gray Scale, that was one of the

102
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,039
Speaker 4: very few options that you would see allowed inside a

103
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,320
Speaker 4: brokerage account that was compatible. A lot of broker dealers

104
00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,960
Speaker 4: would say, you can't go out to your client and say, hey,

105
00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,120
Speaker 4: you know, I recommend that you put let's say gray

106
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,159
Speaker 4: Scale in your portfolio. They would have to call you

107
00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,520
Speaker 4: and say I want exposure to bitcoin, and you would say, okay,

108
00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,120
Speaker 4: the only option I have here are these tools, and

109
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,159
Speaker 4: then you would take that order, maybe even have to

110
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,600
Speaker 4: sign some paperwork or do a little bit of disclosure here.

111
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,320
Speaker 4: That's and that's a function of the compliance offices who

112
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,920
Speaker 4: are naturally skittish around cryptocurrencies.

113
00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,720
Speaker 1: What about having conversations with your clients and you know,

114
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,800
Speaker 1: this looks like a pretty risky assetah with no real

115
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,919
Speaker 1: meaningful applications. Yet how do you balance that as somebody

116
00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:29,200
Speaker 1: who's got the you know, fiduciary responsibilities that you do.

117
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,039
Speaker 4: So I think you have a fiduciary responsibility to educate

118
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,440
Speaker 4: your clients if they're asking about this, and unless you

119
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,479
Speaker 4: are living under a rock over the last let's say

120
00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,360
Speaker 4: five to seven years and your I don't know how

121
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,159
Speaker 4: your clients weren't asking about crypto or bitcoin, and I

122
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,560
Speaker 4: think it's our job to educate them. And most compliance

123
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,400
Speaker 4: offices again are like, hey, don't touch this with a

124
00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,560
Speaker 4: ten foot poll. I mean, that's a tough spot to

125
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,160
Speaker 4: be in, right. So here I am wanting to educate,

126
00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,720
Speaker 4: but you might be told, hey, don't talk about this.

127
00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 4: That's number one now comes the product, right And I

128
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,159
Speaker 4: think banks and institutions are still trying to figure that out.

129
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 4: I'm not going to put myself in the position that

130
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,320
Speaker 4: I was like, hey, I can't wait for this to

131
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:10,560
Speaker 4: come out so we can just.

132
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,679
Speaker 2: Start to load portfolios with it.

133
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,760
Speaker 4: It's probably more the stance of all right, when this

134
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,320
Speaker 4: is kosher right, and we get approval to do what

135
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,280
Speaker 4: we want to do, Let's say, have discretion. How can

136
00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,120
Speaker 4: we build models or integrate this into our risk adjusted

137
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,719
Speaker 4: portfolio so that we could offer clients, Hey, are you

138
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:27,680
Speaker 4: educated on this?

139
00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 2: This this something you want?

140
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,760
Speaker 4: We're now offering portfolios that maybe have a five percent allocation.

141
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:33,280
Speaker 2: That data is out there.

142
00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,680
Speaker 4: I mean, we've got ten plus years of data on

143
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,560
Speaker 4: bitcoin to see and almost like any brochure from I

144
00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,720
Speaker 4: remember Gray Scale having one, what would happen if you

145
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,599
Speaker 4: added one too? Up to five percent of bitcoin on

146
00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 4: an eighty twenty or sixty forty portfolio. Those results were

147
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,040
Speaker 4: pretty compelling. I mean there wasn't a single time like wow,

148
00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,240
Speaker 4: non correlated generated alpha. That's because bitcoin has had a

149
00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,480
Speaker 4: magnificent ten years. So you have the public, you know,

150
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 4: from not knowing a thing about it twenty thirteen fourteen

151
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,920
Speaker 4: all the way to everyone and their grandmother knowing about

152
00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,960
Speaker 4: it twenty Thanksgiving twenty seventeen, twenty thousand dollars, and then

153
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:10,560
Speaker 4: you know from there on, here we go. We got

154
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,880
Speaker 4: a lot of rides in there, so everybody knows what

155
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,600
Speaker 4: this is now, and we're just seeing the you know,

156
00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,880
Speaker 4: broker dealer, investment advisory world get this new shiny object

157
00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,040
Speaker 4: and we're going to figure out what they're going to

158
00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,880
Speaker 4: do with it. I'm still figuring out what, you know,

159
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,000
Speaker 4: we can do, how to roll it out, how to

160
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,640
Speaker 4: package that with a maybe handful of clients that are

161
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,840
Speaker 4: like all right, it's go time, and there's a reason

162
00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 4: for that.

163
00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,680
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the client. So of all your clients,

164
00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,360
Speaker 2: what percent do you think would be interested or are

165
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,840
Speaker 2: you planning to maybe allocate one of these bitcoin ETFs

166
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:43,560
Speaker 2: into their portfolio?

167
00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:44,840
Speaker 1: And give us a little bit of a primer on

168
00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,239
Speaker 1: like how many clients you have, how much money are overseeing?

169
00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got over one hundred and fifty households.

170
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,400
Speaker 4: We're seeing close to ninety two one hundred million dollars

171
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,800
Speaker 4: in assets and under management. But the thing you need

172
00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,000
Speaker 4: to know about my practice is how young it's skews.

173
00:07:58,040 --> 00:07:59,720
Speaker 4: I'm thirty nine, and I would say the average age

174
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,080
Speaker 4: of our client is mid.

175
00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:01,760
Speaker 2: To late thirties.

176
00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,720
Speaker 4: And you know, you said in the beginning, like boomers

177
00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:07,720
Speaker 4: love eat you know, boomers would love this, and I

178
00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,000
Speaker 4: agree with that because five years ago, the number of

179
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 4: clients that would have a question, want exposure or think

180
00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:21,480
Speaker 4: about having exposure was relatively low. And four years from that,

181
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,520
Speaker 4: you know, I would say one in four clients would

182
00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,200
Speaker 4: want to know more about it. I mean, it just

183
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,960
Speaker 4: ballooned the interest in this. My point being here, My

184
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,040
Speaker 4: clients that have exposure don't don't need an ETF, all right,

185
00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,200
Speaker 4: they've already figured out how to use coinbase or have

186
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,720
Speaker 4: already been indoctrinated in how crypto works. But for the

187
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,840
Speaker 4: clients that do skew older, Yeah, there's been some inbound

188
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,600
Speaker 4: calls to say, hey, this is out, can we do

189
00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:48,199
Speaker 4: something with this.

190
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,319
Speaker 1: How do you use ETFs in general in your portfolios?

191
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we use ETFs primarily in our portfolios.

192
00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,199
Speaker 4: Our core risk adjusted model is maybe six ETFs from

193
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,559
Speaker 4: large cap all the way down to you know, emerging

194
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,480
Speaker 4: markets and bond funds. We do like to use some

195
00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,199
Speaker 4: active strategies for a fixed income.

196
00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,760
Speaker 2: So let's talk about the older clients who have some

197
00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,600
Speaker 2: inbound calls. I had my mom over last Sunday, Joel,

198
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,840
Speaker 2: and she saw me talking about biccoin ETFs on etfiq

199
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,920
Speaker 2: for like three weeks straight, and she's like, you know,

200
00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,040
Speaker 2: someone needs to do a show for me and my

201
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,040
Speaker 2: friends and talk to us like we're second graders. What

202
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:25,640
Speaker 2: this all means to me? It all just seems like

203
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,920
Speaker 2: funny money in space. That was her but Space money. Yeah,

204
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,360
Speaker 2: he's closed. But she said I wouldn't have looked at

205
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,360
Speaker 2: it before because the SEC said it was bad. Now

206
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,480
Speaker 2: that these are out, I you know, i'd consider it

207
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:39,760
Speaker 2: that alone.

208
00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,320
Speaker 1: Did you tell her to read Chairman's Leonard?

209
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:46,960
Speaker 2: I don't recommend. The only thing I recommend to my

210
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,640
Speaker 2: mom is just trying to keep cost slow. I don't

211
00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,600
Speaker 2: really I don't want to get involved with like pushing

212
00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,200
Speaker 2: my mom my family members. I don't want. Yeah, I

213
00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,280
Speaker 2: told her what I think, you know, I you know.

214
00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,240
Speaker 2: To me, I'm it's a little like, you know, religion.

215
00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 2: To me, it's like I'm gonna believe in the mystery

216
00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,880
Speaker 2: a little bit here. I'm not negative, but I'm not

217
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,360
Speaker 2: all in. But I'm like, I try. I respect it

218
00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,160
Speaker 2: because of how relentless it is and how creative and

219
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,440
Speaker 2: intelligent some of the people in the space are. That

220
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,440
Speaker 2: that is what I think. You're kind of betting on.

221
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,920
Speaker 2: But the older people when they call you a was

222
00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,400
Speaker 2: the sec approval and you know Larry Fink on Fox

223
00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,839
Speaker 2: talking about it, was that sort of what made them

224
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 2: feel comfortable. And when they ask you about it, are

225
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 2: they interested in like a little hot sauce or do

226
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,240
Speaker 2: they think it's like an alternative to you? Or are

227
00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 2: any of them really into this like Mad Max potential

228
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,920
Speaker 2: world where all the societies break down and bitcoin is

229
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:42,400
Speaker 2: the currency that everybody.

230
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,000
Speaker 1: Uses, like in a gold kind of way.

231
00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:45,840
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, see there's the word. You just said it,

232
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:47,880
Speaker 4: But no they don't, So I'm glad you said gold.

233
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,760
Speaker 4: They don't think the Mad Max, you know, got to

234
00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,920
Speaker 4: build a bomb shelter, you know, doom shelter in the

235
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:57,360
Speaker 4: backyard type scenario. I think a few things. I think, Look,

236
00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,000
Speaker 4: there's bias that I have. I've been involved in bitcoin

237
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,840
Speaker 4: and you know and having mind it back in twenty fourteen.

238
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,280
Speaker 4: I've written articles about this. I've shared my thoughts and

239
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,360
Speaker 4: feelings around this and clients who've been with me for

240
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,240
Speaker 4: a while. No, no, my story. So on one hand,

241
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,679
Speaker 4: they might think like, oh, Doug, Doug likes this, has

242
00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,280
Speaker 4: been doing this and has been successful in this, should

243
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,520
Speaker 4: I follow suit with him, and I urge caution there.

244
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 4: You know, just because I've had success in this and

245
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,840
Speaker 4: took the risk you know, long ago, doesn't mean you should,

246
00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,199
Speaker 4: you know, do that. Just don't don't you know, monkey

247
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,960
Speaker 4: see monkey do kind of thing. But you mentioned gold, right,

248
00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,200
Speaker 4: and I think this is the best way. Now. I

249
00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,920
Speaker 4: keep it very simple. I believe that there's room for

250
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,959
Speaker 4: digital gold, an asset that's an asset class that's digital

251
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,480
Speaker 4: store of value. Let's just stop right there, right, I

252
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 4: think there's space for that. Do you think bitcoins half

253
00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,040
Speaker 4: as good as good, a quarter is good, double as

254
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,000
Speaker 4: good as gold? Then you can kind of get an

255
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,040
Speaker 4: idea if now what, depending on what your belief is,

256
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:54,679
Speaker 4: you get idea of where you think it's gonna go.

257
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,680
Speaker 4: All right, I know gold can be turned into jewelry, right,

258
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,800
Speaker 4: but when you're fleeing a country you want to Yeah,

259
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:02,640
Speaker 4: you're gonna interrupt me.

260
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,800
Speaker 2: I am because if you charted bitcoin and gold, bitcoin

261
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 2: makes gold look like a money market fundah in terms

262
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:15,360
Speaker 2: of the chart. So I thought that bitcoin for even

263
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,320
Speaker 2: boomers would be used as a Foamo cure. Like Look, Doug,

264
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,480
Speaker 2: I don't really care about this, Douglas Douglas. Sorry, we're

265
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,520
Speaker 2: good gonna happen. This might have taken me a couple

266
00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,040
Speaker 2: of tries, Joel. I just know you as Doug. I

267
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:31,600
Speaker 2: don't know why, and we don't even know each other

268
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,040
Speaker 2: that well, but you're Doug to me, Doug. Okay, Douglas,

269
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,319
Speaker 2: it's my fault, Okay, I made this. Sorry, all right,

270
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,680
Speaker 2: So Douglas, listen. I I just don't want to kick

271
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,160
Speaker 2: myself in ten years, and let's just put two percent.

272
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,600
Speaker 2: Don't mess with my sixty forty. I like that. That's

273
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,760
Speaker 2: how I think they think. Yep. But the right the

274
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,360
Speaker 2: gold argument to me is a little more like, hey, Doug,

275
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,360
Speaker 2: put some gold in the fund, just because I want

276
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 2: something that's non correlated, possible hedge. It's not always a hedge, no,

277
00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,439
Speaker 2: but gold to me is much more stable.

278
00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:01,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

279
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,479
Speaker 2: It just seems like gold is an alternative and bitcoin's

280
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,240
Speaker 2: hot sauce and fomo cure.

281
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,400
Speaker 4: Well, two things can be true, right, They can cure

282
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,920
Speaker 4: their fomo and get access to an alternative aset class

283
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,040
Speaker 4: that's non correlated. I just compare it to gold because

284
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,040
Speaker 4: it's the best comp that I got. You know, sure,

285
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:20,839
Speaker 4: you're right, you know, look at those look at those

286
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,920
Speaker 4: performance charts. Then again, Bitcoin's only been around ten years,

287
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,199
Speaker 4: so comparing a ten year timeline to gold's ever existence,

288
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,439
Speaker 4: you know, is kind of a tough comparison. You've got

289
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,959
Speaker 4: technology imbued in this thing, the blockchain, you know, you

290
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,400
Speaker 4: got a lot. Yo is Saitochi Nakamoto hiding in a

291
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,240
Speaker 4: bush around the corner, and he's just gonna pop out

292
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,480
Speaker 4: and be like gotcha, and you know, boom, everyone's everyone's

293
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,120
Speaker 4: been suckered, Like it's in the back.

294
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 2: Of everyone's mind. Let's not kid ourselves.

295
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,679
Speaker 4: But no, you know, I don't. I don't think that's

296
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,480
Speaker 4: the case here. But I think both of those things

297
00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,320
Speaker 4: can be true. I think we can view it as

298
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,080
Speaker 4: a digital form of store of value. Yeah, that's the joke,

299
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,120
Speaker 4: like store of value, Like, look at that chart. How

300
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,959
Speaker 4: many eighty percent draw downs have I lived through all

301
00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:58,200
Speaker 4: of it?

302
00:13:58,360 --> 00:13:59,120
Speaker 2: Like all of them?

303
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,840
Speaker 4: Like, I think three at this point, if not more,

304
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 4: you know, and then fifty or twenty percentowns unlimited? Is

305
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,880
Speaker 4: that something you know people look to when they say

306
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,520
Speaker 4: store of value And the answer is probably no. But

307
00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,559
Speaker 4: do we get to something that's more steady state after

308
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,360
Speaker 4: we get to indoctrinating or a mass adoption. I don't

309
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,160
Speaker 4: think we've adopted, you know, to the degree that you know,

310
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 4: gold or you know, your main stay asset classes have

311
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,120
Speaker 4: not even close to it.

312
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,680
Speaker 1: So now that we actually have legit products that you

313
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,400
Speaker 1: can you know, trade on on exchanges, how do you

314
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,120
Speaker 1: go about evaluating those options?

315
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,680
Speaker 2: Like which of those eleven we're going to do well

316
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:45,440
Speaker 2: in our portfolio?

317
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,040
Speaker 4: As we lean heavy on black Rock? Shout out, guys,

318
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,680
Speaker 4: I share it, and I'm agnostic, Like, if my client

319
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,280
Speaker 4: wants Vanguard over you know, black Rock.

320
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:54,520
Speaker 2: Well work in the scenario.

321
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,840
Speaker 4: No, but it would not, you know, apparently it's not

322
00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,560
Speaker 4: mature of enough of an asset here.

323
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,360
Speaker 2: But we're hold on just quick background. So what we're

324
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,440
Speaker 2: referring to is Vanguard has a brokerage platform and they

325
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,200
Speaker 2: basically said we will not let the bitcoin ETFs trade

326
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,280
Speaker 2: on here, even though they do allow golditfs roll. Obviously,

327
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,000
Speaker 2: Vanguard doesn't love commodities in general because they don't have

328
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,440
Speaker 2: any actual like intrinsic value, But when it comes to gold,

329
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,240
Speaker 2: at least there's a use. They say, so Vanguard really

330
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,760
Speaker 2: and all the crypto people are triggered. They want to

331
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,400
Speaker 2: take their like, boycott Vanguard is trending, and I'm like, listen,

332
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,760
Speaker 2: you are not going to take down Vanguard. They get

333
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,720
Speaker 2: so crazy. But I don't, you know, I don't know

334
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,800
Speaker 2: why Vanguard. In my opinion, Vanguard's just trust their clients

335
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,120
Speaker 2: a little more sure. But they don't allow leverage either,

336
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,680
Speaker 2: so it's somewhat on brand. Vanguard's like a family friendly

337
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:43,560
Speaker 2: audience kind of thing.

338
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,200
Speaker 4: But I mean I made a joke at their expense

339
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,120
Speaker 4: because everybody was let's be honest, they got memed by me.

340
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,120
Speaker 4: But you know that that is the point, like at

341
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,320
Speaker 4: least they don't offer those triple leverage you know, or

342
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,040
Speaker 4: triple long, triple short or whatever, you know, typer whisky stuff,

343
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,240
Speaker 4: so that remains on brand for them. I could it,

344
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:02,400
Speaker 4: and you know, and the Bitcoin iss would be like

345
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,840
Speaker 4: long term, this is a terrible move. You know, well

346
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 4: if their clients aren't demanding it, first of all, like

347
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,720
Speaker 4: their clients can you know, buy this in another brokerage account.

348
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 4: I mean, the sensitivity around you know, Bitcoin Maximalist is

349
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,320
Speaker 4: super high, and I don't fancy much.

350
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,680
Speaker 2: It's also isn't there some irony in them getting pissed

351
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 2: off about Vanguard? Because hey, we're supposed to be outside

352
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 2: of the system. It's a currency outside of the system.

353
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,520
Speaker 2: And now we're pissed off that someone like the literally

354
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,200
Speaker 2: the largest asset manager in the United States won't accept us.

355
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,160
Speaker 2: Isn't that kind of Isn't there a a inconsistency there?

356
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,720
Speaker 4: Well, there's irony that black Rock has the biggest one,

357
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:39,960
Speaker 4: you know, and then the second biggest you know, or

358
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 4: first because you know the day of the week. It

359
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 4: just shows you how new this all is and how

360
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:47,720
Speaker 4: people are figuring it all out.

361
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,040
Speaker 2: I'm not sure there's a lot of.

362
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,080
Speaker 4: Smart minds at these institutions. But the thing about bitcoin

363
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,280
Speaker 4: and crypto is you said it, how many smart minds

364
00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,880
Speaker 4: are now existing outside of this. If you're a bitcoin maximalist,

365
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 4: you're probably pissed off and etf exists in the first place.

366
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,800
Speaker 4: Like that is not the spirit of what a decentralized

367
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:07,639
Speaker 4: currency called bitcoin is supposed to be.

368
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:08,120
Speaker 2: I mean, it.

369
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,720
Speaker 4: Literally was forged in the Occupy Wall Street days, like

370
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 4: fight the banks.

371
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:17,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like like when I'm uh like like back,

372
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,679
Speaker 2: like you know, twenty years ago when rock band started

373
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 2: selling their songs to commercials, like you saw like a

374
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,760
Speaker 2: led Zeppelin song on a four truck and it pissed

375
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 2: people off. Yeah, it's the same vibe, you know. It's like,

376
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,760
Speaker 2: but I think you know, there's also the number go up.

377
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,120
Speaker 2: It's helpful for that so I can Sometimes there's there's

378
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,280
Speaker 2: pure number go up people, but then there's more like

379
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 2: I'm in it for the religion and I can see

380
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,040
Speaker 2: and then some people have both inside of them and

381
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:40,120
Speaker 2: there's they're so tribal.

382
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 4: We're so tribal in everything now, Like you either are

383
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,199
Speaker 4: a maximalist or you're a Wall Street suit. And I'm

384
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,760
Speaker 4: wearing a suit today and I'm an og bitcoin guy. Yeah,

385
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:49,680
Speaker 4: but not a max.

386
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 2: They call me a suit and a boomer and I'm

387
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,840
Speaker 2: gen X and I rarely wear suits only on the

388
00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 2: TV show and it's our gray hair. They're calling me

389
00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,960
Speaker 2: a boomer. Now, well, my kid calls anybody over the

390
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 2: age of like seventeen boomer one hundred percent.

391
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, So back to nuts and bolts of like how

392
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,520
Speaker 1: you actually bring this into a portfolio for clients, Like

393
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:08,720
Speaker 1: what is this displacing in your client's portfolio?

394
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 4: It's replacing large cap equities and developed international. So if

395
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,679
Speaker 4: you wanted a five percent allocation. The first trade we

396
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 4: made unsolicited boomer client calling up, I want five percent

397
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 4: exposure in my sixty to forty portfolio.

398
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,920
Speaker 2: Literally that so that happened. That happened. Nice that happened.

399
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 2: And I saw that. Did theave request the actual tick

400
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:30,840
Speaker 2: or two or just you pick it.

401
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,960
Speaker 4: I guided them through like what we're thinking, and bit

402
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,920
Speaker 4: Wise was a firm that you know, it actually broke

403
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,560
Speaker 4: away from our bias towards I shares. I like what

404
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,639
Speaker 4: Bitwise was doing. I think their CEO is fantastic, you know.

405
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 4: I think they're competing very nicely on fees, and I

406
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,200
Speaker 4: love the fact that they're giving money to developers as well.

407
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,880
Speaker 2: Great story there, h And that.

408
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 4: Was the trade and we put that in the portfolio.

409
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 4: Three percent came out of IVV and two percent came

410
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:00,800
Speaker 4: out of EFA.

411
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,080
Speaker 2: Wow, that is dude, this is win fascinating.

412
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 1: Stuff went from like super safe to just like full on.

413
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, but five percent you know, yeah, alt also in

414
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,320
Speaker 4: a portfolio that doesn't have alts. I mean, really, is

415
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 4: that is that big?

416
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,400
Speaker 2: Is that a big deal? Two things on this adding

417
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 2: a couple things sixty forty. Everybody loves it, love it.

418
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,440
Speaker 2: That said, I have to explain to crypto people why

419
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,600
Speaker 2: people love it. They're like, why would you even use

420
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 2: thocks and bonds? I'm like, are you kidding me? Anyway,

421
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 2: they're all in. They can't even understand a sixty forty.

422
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 2: But for a normal person, yeah, a sixty forty, low

423
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 2: cost Vanguardian style portfolio, in my opinion, is actually super

424
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,360
Speaker 2: beneficial for the behavioral stomach you need for a product

425
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 2: like this. Because Bitcoin goes up down a lot. Let's

426
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,399
Speaker 2: say it goes down fifty percent in a year, you

427
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 2: don't need to panic that much because it's not your core.

428
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,320
Speaker 2: It's not what your whole thing is on. Yeah, that

429
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,119
Speaker 2: was two and a half percent drag right there. Whereas

430
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,159
Speaker 2: back in the day you would buy a hot portfolio

431
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 2: manager and then when they started going down, you panic

432
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 2: because that's your kid college money, and you'd jump into

433
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 2: the next one and the behavior will be awful. Now,

434
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 2: I think Vanguard really helps solve behavior, not only for

435
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,159
Speaker 2: the sixty forty because they never leave there, but for

436
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 2: the hot sauce too. It's way easier to behave when

437
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 2: you've got that really good deal and you're secure in it,

438
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,479
Speaker 2: So in a way, I think the sixty forty helps

439
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,880
Speaker 2: hang in there for an older investor. These crypto people

440
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 2: they're gonna hang in regardless, But for the older people

441
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 2: just seems like the sixty forty well helps. You're taking it.

442
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 4: Out of equities, not their fixed incomposition. So you could

443
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 4: have been more extreme. I guess with your five percent

444
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 4: take into a bitcoin ETF, you could have taken out

445
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 4: of intermediate or long duration ponds and then like, hey,

446
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 4: we're going going from the soft stuff to the hard

447
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 4: stuff real quick here, right, But like you know, your

448
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 4: two biggest positions on the equity side in a sixty

449
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 4: forty or eighty twenty is the international piece and most

450
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 4: most of all the large cap equity piece.

451
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: But is that a conversation that the the fact that

452
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 1: these are now ETFs enabled, right, because you wouldn't have

453
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 1: had this same conversation with this investor if they if.

454
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 4: You hold the phone, there's a thin line there, right,

455
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 4: Like again stressing the word education, right, So I fortunately

456
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 4: had the knowledge base and the experience in my own

457
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 4: dealings with bitcoin and being an early adopter to provide

458
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 4: a level of education to my clients. You have, in

459
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,920
Speaker 4: my mind that duty to explain how if client calls

460
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,479
Speaker 4: you up and wants to know about something that you

461
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 4: know about. You know, you're not out there saying yeah, yeah, yeah,

462
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 4: you gotta sell ten percent of your portfolio right now

463
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 4: and open a coin base account, get that money over

464
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 4: there and buy some bitcoin. I mean, that's not a

465
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 4: good day from a compliance standpoint. That that puts you

466
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 4: in hot water. But when clients are saying, how do

467
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 4: I do this? I'm going to do this and I

468
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 4: don't want to mess it up, and you have the

469
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 4: ability to educate them on how to do it, you

470
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 4: do it that. That's your job. You build value that way,

471
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,400
Speaker 4: even if it comes at the expense of your own

472
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 4: portfolios that you're managing for your client. So that interesting

473
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 4: line of oh man, I love bitcoin, let's get the

474
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 4: clients in it too. Let me make sure you know

475
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 4: what you're doing. Let me make sure you understand everything

476
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 4: there is to know about this and the risk you're taking.

477
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 4: We can go deeper than that. Let's understand what this

478
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 4: risk means to your financial planning. Because I'm not sitting

479
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 4: here as an investment advisor extraordinaire. I'm sitting here as

480
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 4: a financial planner extraordinaire. We lead all our relationships and

481
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 4: conversations with financial planning, not the investment management piece. This

482
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 4: almost comes last.

483
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 2: Now in terms of advisors, I know there's sensitivity to

484
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 2: not wanting to have a nasty phone call from a

485
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 2: client down the road. So I think, you know, we

486
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 2: used to have this phrase like I shares and Vanguard

487
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: ETFs are like the new IBM. You can't be funny.

488
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 2: You can't get fired for buying IBM. This is in

489
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 2: the eighties. You can't really get fired for buying a

490
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 2: Vanguard and black Rock ETF. I guess I am a

491
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 2: boomer for now, but that but that generally applied to

492
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 2: stocks and bonds right and low cost is do you

493
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 2: worry at all that let's say there's some I don't know,

494
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: a black swan event with crypto another FTX it goes down.

495
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 2: How worried are you that you're going to get the

496
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 2: angry phone call? Or do you have that deep of

497
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 2: a conversation with beforehand that you almost eliminate that.

498
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 4: Twofold You have that conversation, I think you make it

499
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 4: very clear what those drawdowns have looked like. And I

500
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 4: bring my own experience into that. You know, mining bitcoin

501
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 4: when it was four hundred, seeing it go to twenty

502
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 4: thousand down to three up to fifty nine, sixty nine

503
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 4: thousand down to twenty or seventeen and now or what

504
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 4: forty two today? Oh my god, I mean I'm playing

505
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 4: with Yeah, I'm playing with house money.

506
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 2: Hold on, No in your portfolio though, I'm assuming you

507
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 2: have a sixty forty base something like that.

508
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 4: For me, it's eighty twenty. So for the younger clients,

509
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 4: just crank up that sixty forty to eighty one.

510
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this. Let's say you were all

511
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 2: in on crypto. Could you have stomached that?

512
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 4: No?

513
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 2: Okay, so do you sort of explain to them, Look,

514
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 2: we're only going to put a little in here, like, yeah,

515
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 2: you'll live.

516
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 4: I don't believe in concentratet Yeah, outside of your main

517
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 4: state ETFs like IVV or SMP five hundred, and you

518
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 4: know what's part of the portfolios. We have conversations around

519
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 4: clients like what do you do with concentration risk of

520
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 4: your own company stock? Clients that work at Netflix or

521
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 4: Amazon or your fangs or Fancy seven whatever, Magnificent seven whatever, Fancy.

522
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 2: Seven, Fancy five. So I like super seven. He likes

523
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: Magnificent seven. I don't like any of it.

524
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 4: Okay, but what do you do for you know, your

525
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 4: Roku client, you know, got a grant and forty percent

526
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 4: of their net worth is made up of you know

527
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 4: RSUs that invested. You know, I'm not a fan of that.

528
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 4: I kind of draw a hard line at twenty percent.

529
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 4: I don't like seeing more than twenty percent of any

530
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 4: asset outside of your home, you know, being in your portfolio,

531
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 4: unless it's the S and P five hundred or you know,

532
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 4: your your international develops core fund.

533
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: And sorry, and the older investors who come to you

534
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 2: and want this exposure, how do they hear about it?

535
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 2: Was it reading about the bigcoin ETF launch? Was it

536
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: knowing about it from maybe their kids? Or like what

537
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: than that they should like maybe now call you all

538
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 2: of the above.

539
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 4: I mean again, if you've been a client of mine

540
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 4: for a long time, you know my story with it.

541
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 4: I've written about it. You know my experience, my journey,

542
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 4: what it means. I mean, I remember in twenty seventeen

543
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 4: writing a piece for mainstream financial media titled one Bit

544
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 4: one in Financial Advisor's Bitcoin Journey. I mean, I didn't

545
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 4: know of any other financial advisors who you know, bought

546
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 4: a bitcoin minor with their buddy in twenty thirteen did

547
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 4: this and had held the entire time like I forgot

548
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 4: about it. And then twenty yeah, I remember friends calling

549
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 4: me up and be like, hey, don't you have this

550
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 4: stuff like congratulating me. I was like, it's weird, Like should.

551
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: I get them? Like I can't talk about that, you know,

552
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 2: not enough to retire, but you know, and you brought

553
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: up an interesting point all that, you know, how do

554
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 2: I deal with it?

555
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 4: This is an outsized position, you know. And I'll get

556
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 4: a little personal here, like we got lucky. You know,

557
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 4: my wife and I made a really interesting decision back

558
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 4: when we had no money to go on a little

559
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 4: adventure with a friend, paid three thousand dollars for a

560
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 4: Bitcoin minor uh to get some get some of the

561
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 4: space money out of the internet, Internet space, internet space,

562
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 4: funny money in space. So you know, I won't reveal

563
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 4: how much that is obviously, but it turns into you know,

564
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 4: something that will compare that to like our four you know,

565
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 4: our four one k or like you know, retirement savior.

566
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 4: I mean, how do you how do you think about

567
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 4: that as an interesting well.

568
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 2: How much of the performance made you a believer versus

569
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 2: the story well, that's a great question. I mean, seeing

570
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 2: that I've.

571
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 4: Held with it, you know, going from multiple six figures

572
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 4: back down to five figures, if not lower. I believe

573
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 4: in it. I can tell you that with that, there's conviction. Okay,

574
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 4: I have conviction more than I am.

575
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 2: Price go up. This is great for my pocket. But

576
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: you'd be.

577
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 4: Crazy to think that, Like I'm gonna sit here before

578
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 4: you and not say yay, price go up, which which

579
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,959
Speaker 4: is kind of the interesting position I find myself in.

580
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 4: Like we talked about tribes, you're either you know, Bitcoin

581
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 4: maximalist or Wall Street you know shark, you know fat cat.

582
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 2: Soon Yeah, I'm both. I'm both.

583
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 4: Like I want price up, Like, let's get that. Let's

584
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 4: get the ETF, Let's get the have an ing, Let's

585
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 4: get this, you know, supply shock. Let's get this demand

586
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 4: from the ETF. Let's watch number go up. You know,

587
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 4: I'd like to retire, you know earlier you're kidding yourself.

588
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 4: But at the same time, you go back, take a

589
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 4: look at the technology and what this can provide people.

590
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 4: You know, I take a page from the maximalist playbook.

591
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 4: You love to see it, you do love to see it.

592
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 4: Two things gonna I don't think DeFi.

593
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 2: Can exist without traditional finance.

594
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 4: I think it's a symbiotic relationship. So if you're trying

595
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 4: to like go one or the other, oh, you want

596
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 4: the the people calling for the end of traditional finance

597
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 4: and the fat and then like, what are you gonna

598
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 4: do climb to the top of garbage Mountain to get

599
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 4: a cell phone signal so you can like send someone bitcoin.

600
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 4: It doesn't work like that. You can have the end

601
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:53,479
Speaker 4: of the world end bitcoin.

602
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 2: Okay. So you're out there looking at the Internet, you're

603
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: watching stuff, and you've got Jamie Diamond on one hand, yeah,

604
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 2: pet Rock. Then you got Larry Fink out there literally

605
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 2: telling a reporter, well, you know, if you don't trust

606
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: your government, and that's sort of him like totally orange pilled,

607
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 2: explaining it from the mindset of a total maximalist, and

608
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 2: it's like making heads explode on both sides. My head's

609
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 2: explodes hearing these guys. These are very influential people to

610
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: advisors and boomers. Of course, how do you square that?

611
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 2: Like do they ever come to you and say, like,

612
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: is Jamie Diamond more right than Larry Fink? What's going

613
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 2: on here?

614
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 4: I don't know if my clients are getting into you know, CEO,

615
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 4: institutional financial institution CEO, you know, battles and what they're

616
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 4: saying there I few and far between. I guess my

617
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 4: clients you work in finance, you know, can have an

618
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 4: intelligent conversation with me or bring it.

619
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: Up, but I'll agree with you.

620
00:28:54,320 --> 00:29:00,959
Speaker 4: That's pretty wild to see the dichotomy between Larry and Jamie.

621
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 4: You know, what are their incentives is the first question

622
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 4: that I have. Well, Larry has an ETF, you know,

623
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 4: and the more flows into that bad boy, the better

624
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 4: for black Rock. I mean, it's pretty simple.

625
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: I get that that part. I get.

626
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 4: Like Larry's easy to understand going out there and saying

627
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 4: if you don't trust your government, I mean it's factual.

628
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 2: If you don't trust your government, by.

629
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 4: The way, then you want to go buy bitcoin itself

630
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 4: and stick it on the Ledger, right you don't.

631
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 2: Like Yeah, Larry like it. It's fascinating. Yeah, Like Larry, we.

632
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 4: Had to take a page out of the Maximalist or

633
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 4: the Real Bitcoin or playbook here, but it's not going

634
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 4: to be in your product if that's the case.

635
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: One question I get a lot from the crypto people

636
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: on Twitter is why just not have your own walth.

637
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: So as an advisor, can you explain why not just

638
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: do your own col Yes?

639
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, this I think is the biggest point of

640
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 4: all of it and crazy that I didn't get here,

641
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 4: and I'm glad you brought it up.

642
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: People.

643
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 4: I think bigcoiners and crypto fanboys and girls underestimate.

644
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: How lazy people are.

645
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 4: Sure, you know, guys, you know what did we learn at?

646
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 4: I did the whole NFT thing as well, and let's

647
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 4: go there for one quick second. I remember my wife

648
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 4: was like, what are you doing. I'm like, oh, I'm

649
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 4: checking out the hype around these NFTs. You know, you

650
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 4: had to get money onto in exchange to buy ethereum

651
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 4: and the we're moving away from bitcoin here to buy

652
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 4: ethereum to get it to a MetaMask squallet to go

653
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 4: buy a pixelated frog on you know, Open Sea to

654
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 4: then you know, show it to your friends on your phone.

655
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 4: I said, honey, let's see if you can figure this out,

656
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 4: like I want you to go buy a boss beauty

657
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 4: or whatever. She was into and you know, over her shoulder. Shit,

658
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 4: she turned her after doing it all, she turned around

659
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 4: and looked at me and said, there's not a single

660
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 4: friend that I have that would ever in their mind

661
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 4: do what I just did sure to make this happen.

662
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 4: And that's probably the most complex like series of transactions. Now,

663
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 4: like scale it down to just opening an account on coinbase,

664
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 4: getting money from your bank account to coinbase, and placing

665
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 4: an order for the first time on a trustless system.

666
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: Guys, people don't want to do that. They just don't

667
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: want to do that. Yeah, theyource it, Yeah they don't

668
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: want to do it. What do they know?

669
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 4: Like I love blockchain technology, I love web three. It

670
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 4: is not easy to get involved unless you have a

671
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 4: high degree of acumen when it comes to technology and

672
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 4: these types of things. That's such a small piece, you know,

673
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 4: of the population. But what can most people do? Log

674
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 4: into their brokerage account and place a trade for an

675
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 4: ETF super easy. People love that. They love that, and

676
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 4: that's why this product exists, so people can do that

677
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,719
Speaker 4: and for institutions to make money.

678
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: Are you are you ready for the moment that there's

679
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: going to be potentially more ETFs and more crypto products

680
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: on regular normal exchanges or are you gonna gonna kind

681
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: of just draw the line at the bitcoin stuff, or

682
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: are you gonna try and.

683
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: This should be bitcoin in ethereum. I think you know

684
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: you're two.

685
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: And that's it.

686
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I can't quite go that. I don't know

687
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 4: enough about others. If you're like a cardono person or

688
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 4: a ripple person, or like coins your thing, or you're like,

689
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 4: can you imagine, Hey, honey, I bought some doge coin

690
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 4: you know ETF today? Oh great, our allocation looks wonderful.

691
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 4: I I don't know.

692
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: I don't know. Love you dogecoin people. I hope everyone

693
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,479
Speaker 2: makes money. I truly do. I'm a I'm a good

694
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 2: guy here. I don't know.

695
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 4: It doesn't work like that, but yeah, I think you'll

696
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 4: see ethereum next. I think there's some real use cases

697
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 4: that will pop up there. I think, you know, NFTs,

698
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 4: weren't it as far as showing the world that proof

699
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 4: of work and you know, digital signatures on you know

700
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 4: stuff is going to be very powerful.

701
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 2: So we've got these newborn nine ETFs and GBTC. Gbtc's bleeding,

702
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: the newborn nine taking in money. Let's just say over

703
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 2: the next couple months they even out at about twenty

704
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: five thirty billion. Now we'll call that the starting line,

705
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 2: because all that unlock will be done and we'll be

706
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 2: ready to start just inflows. Mostly where do you see

707
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: this going?

708
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: Like?

709
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 2: How big does this get? Just for context, gold ETFs

710
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: have one hundred billion dollars that's one percent of all

711
00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: ETF assets. So let's say we're at thirty billion in

712
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 2: the summer. Yeah, where do you see this in five

713
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 2: ten years? Like you think it'll bypass gold? Be about

714
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 2: gold less than gold, slightly pass gold?

715
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 4: Okay, I think my conservative case is it's as good

716
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 4: as gold. My aggressive case is it's multiples better than gold,

717
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 4: but not like a hundred times better than gold. Come on,

718
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 4: let's be easy with that.

719
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: So what's the market cap of gold?

720
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 3: What?

721
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 2: Ten trillion? So yeah, gold? But also interesting going outside

722
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: the ETFs now, yeah, so if you go more than gold,

723
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 2: we'll say one hundred and fifty billion, that would put

724
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: it at two percent of all ETF assets, which is

725
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: you know, again that's healthy.

726
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 4: It's an aggressive that's my aggressive, more aggressive case.

727
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 2: The also interesting thing is just one more future gold

728
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: ETFs only own one point five percent of the gold

729
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: above ground something like that. Yeah, gold ETF I mean

730
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: bitcoin ETFs already own like four percent of bitcoin. If

731
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 2: you go to Goldian levels, you get to ten, fifteen,

732
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: twenty percent. How it's interesting what do you make of that? Like,

733
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: is it possible the ETFs eat up the market a

734
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 2: little too much and then there's like a lot more

735
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 2: volatility because there's less actual traders.

736
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 4: I mean, I'll put my you know, tinfoil hat on

737
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 4: here and say, you know, you've got institutions getting involved.

738
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 4: I mean they're they're gobbling you know, what was it

739
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 4: this morning? How what does black Rock have in uh

740
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 4: fifty thousand bitcoin supporting their ETF right now? I mean,

741
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 4: you put enough bitcoin in the hands of institutions. I mean,

742
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 4: take a look at the gold ETF and what happened,

743
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 4: you know, in the year's leading of that. Can they manipulate?

744
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 4: Can they move? Can they shift their weight around? Can

745
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 4: they body some things? And I think the answer is yeah.

746
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 4: But look at who's selling their bitcoin out of bitcoin holders.

747
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 4: Guys like me are not you know, going to touch

748
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 4: this forever, and that supply is going to be eventually,

749
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 4: I think it's going to get hard to tap.

750
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: We've managed to go almost full bitcoin in this segment,

751
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: so I want to bring it back. Imagine a client

752
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: comes to you and says do not use the word

753
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: bitcoin or crypto in the conversation with me. What are

754
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: you going to have? What kind of conversation you're going

755
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 1: to have with them about what's happening in the world

756
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: in markets and portfolio construction.

757
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 2: And that's ninety nine percent of my conversations right now.

758
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,479
Speaker 2: It's like the cooin and crypto is not being used here.

759
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 4: You know, again, it's a lot of self selection. You've

760
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 4: got clients who have already come in. It's a younger base,

761
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 4: they're informed. I don't have to you know, they've already

762
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 4: educated themselves or we've had the conversation around what this

763
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 4: is and what they should do.

764
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: So your answer is go find a different financial advisor.

765
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 4: No, if they don't want to talk about it, we're

766
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 4: not going to talk about it. I'm not here to

767
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 4: put any product down any client's throat at any time.

768
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 4: I think if I start doing that, regardless of the product,

769
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 4: I'm not doing my job.

770
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: Do you get clients who get jealous of the cues

771
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: unless say, the whole S and P five hundred and

772
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: the cues are like double Do they ever go, hey,

773
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 2: why aren't we buy that instead?

774
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 4: No? That also doesn't come up The beautiful part of

775
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 4: leading with financial planning is that you give people an

776
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 4: understanding of how they get to their goals, what rates

777
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 4: of return they need, the levels of risk that they're

778
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 4: going to take to achieve those rates of return, and

779
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 4: then they get back to their very busy lives. All right,

780
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 4: we love talking about this. You know, go talk to

781
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 4: your friends who don't work in finance, who have you know,

782
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 4: a couple of kids, maybe three kids, and you go

783
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 4: try and have the level of conversa even a fraction

784
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 4: of the level of conversation not gonna happen. You're gonna

785
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 4: talk about football, You're gonn talk about the kids and

786
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 4: their school or whatever. It's just not gonna happen. Boomers, however,

787
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 4: they get to read. They got a lot of time

788
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 4: on their hands, especially if they're retired. Yeah, you know,

789
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 4: so maybe you'll get a few more inquiries from them

790
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 4: around this ETF. But for my clients, they know where

791
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 4: I stand. They're pretty savvy. I think they've already you know,

792
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 4: the ones I expect to have exposure already have exposure,

793
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 4: which is interesting.

794
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: Final question, what is your favorite ETF ticker?

795
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:44,879
Speaker 2: Oh? Right now, it's QQQ. Oh you mean like what's

796
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 2: my favorite life for like a novelty ticker like forget investments. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

797
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: I understood.

798
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: That, but also tell I like the q's answered.

799
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, as far as like what's hot, yeah that, but

800
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: as far as like what's my favorite people love ETF tickers,

801
00:36:58,480 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: so we just try to end on a on a

802
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: sort of god, I don't care it's but for a

803
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: vanity plate. Wasn't there Nerd out there?

804
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:06,919
Speaker 3: Yeah?

805
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good. That one that was one of the

806
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 2: best answers. Yeah, that's a video game ETF toool that

807
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 2: is now defunct. Yeah, I think that's.

808
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 4: Whether it is or it Isn't you know that one

809
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 4: was cast off some hats with Nerd on it.

810
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 2: By the way, did you notice that there's only two

811
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 2: ETFs and bitcoin ETFs that have like Q tickers total

812
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 2: and b R r R. The rest I thought were

813
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: sober on purpose because you could have fun with tickers here.

814
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 2: But I thought they were sober fidelity black rock because

815
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 2: they want to.

816
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 4: Yeah that's a hedge against like this goes awry and

817
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 4: like they even named it like hot.

818
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 2: Or also the bitcoin's crazy enough, you don't need to

819
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 2: add the ticker on top.

820
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 4: I mean, have you have you met Black Rock's compliance department?

821
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 4: How many lawyers are there?

822
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: Yeah?

823
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 2: Do you see there? The they the videos and like

824
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: the way they're presenting it. It's so fascinating showing like

825
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: Blackrock marketing to the crypto crowd. You know, they're like,

826
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 2: oh my god, this makes one of fall asleep. But

827
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: they're like, hey, wait, guys, this is how you talk

828
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 2: to old people. And it's just funny them talking amongst

829
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 2: themselves about these like older people like getting into their business,

830
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 2: and it's such a clash of cultures. I find it

831
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 2: endlessly fascinating. I went to a Black Rock influencer day.

832
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 4: They got a bunch of you know, Twitter accounts and

833
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 4: TikTok accounts, that's all together. They were debuting their lifestyle

834
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 4: target date. ETFs invited us all down to the exchange

835
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 4: to a bell ceremony, and I remember, I'm now in

836
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 4: black rocks new headquarters and everybody that was I mean,

837
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 4: we're weeks months out from this was maybe a couple

838
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 4: months ago, and all I wanted to ask people was

839
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 4: about the Bitcoin ETF. It was lock and key, like

840
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 4: we cannot will not talk about it. Almost with like us,

841
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 4: I could almost sense the smirk behind it, because they,

842
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 4: like someone, knew it was coming, and it came.

843
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: Doug let'spen a past. Thanks for joining us in.

844
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 3: Trillions, Thank you for having me, Thanks for listening to

845
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 3: Trillions until next time.

846
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: You can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg dot com,

847
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you'd like to listen.

848
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. We're on Twitter. I'm

849
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 1: at Joel Webber Show. He's at Eric Baulchunis. This episode

850
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: of Trillions was produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Bye