1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: More traditional financial firms are adopting crypto tools, but the 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: uncertainty remains. After one judge contradicted the Ripple ruling from 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: a three weeks ago about labeling digital tokens security. So 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: let's bring in coin Shares head of strategy, Melton Demeirs 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: for more. Melton, we were just speaking with Terrence Yang 6 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: of Swan Bitcoin about this. He was saying that he 7 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: isn't as optimistic about a spot ETF approval as some 8 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: of the market seems to be. Also was pointing to 9 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: this kind of discrepancy in these two rulings. So what's 10 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: your read really on the progress that has actually been 11 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: made here? 12 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: I think that we continue to be locked in a 13 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 2: pattern that frankly, we've been locked in since the start 14 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: of regulation of crypto or tents to regulate crypto, which 15 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 2: is we see one position from the sec which is 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 2: regulation by enforcement. Nowhere has it really been established what 17 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: assets are considered securities and which are not. And even 18 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: in the two Ripple rulings we've seen, which were not 19 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: even a month apart, we have dramatically different interpretations and 20 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: the conclusion we come to. And I think in that 21 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 2: clip you just showed from Mike Novograts, who says the 22 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 2: exact same thing. The only way that we get clarity 23 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 2: is not through these piecemeal regulation by enforcement steps we've seen, 24 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: but through clear regulatory guidance, and that, in my view 25 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: at this stage, can only come from Congress. Now you're 26 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 2: in the swamp. You know, we're coming up on shutdown, 27 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: We're coming up on an election. 28 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: Here. 29 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 2: There are a number of bills on the floor in 30 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 2: Congress that are by partisan in nature. But the clock 31 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 2: is really running out in terms of timeline to get 32 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 2: these things through the process. 33 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 3: What how should the community react or how should the 34 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 3: community act? I guess if we don't get clear and 35 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,919 Speaker 3: concise regulation from Congress, because that seems like a really 36 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: big ask, melt them. 37 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: It is a big ask. It has been a big ask. 38 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 2: It continues to be a big ask. I think there 39 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: are two important things to keep in mind here. Number One, 40 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: crypto has gone from being a small lined community to 41 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: being a global industry with different perspectives, and frankly, companies 42 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 2: and projects in the space might have somewhat different goals. 43 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 2: As a result, we've seen a number of different packs 44 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: and different trade associations forming attempting to gather resources to 45 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 2: use their collective power to lobby and to deploy capital 46 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: to getting candidates elected that are going to take action 47 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 2: that share their perspectives, maybe on the direction that regulation 48 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 2: and policy needs to go. So I think crypto is 49 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: becoming a political powerhouse. It is an important part of 50 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 2: the DC ecosystem, and I think in this cycle will 51 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 2: continue to see a lot of campaign contributions going from 52 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 2: players in the crypto space, cryptospecific packs to specific candidates. 53 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 2: And number two, I think at a certain point, right 54 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: we cannot continue this stalemate. At the end of the day, 55 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: this is an important geopolitical issue as well. We see 56 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: strides being made in other parts of the world that 57 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 2: do have their guidance. We see economic activity flowing there. 58 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: So at some point, I do think this becomes a 59 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: matter of national interest, a matter of economic interest, to 60 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: ensure that America remains competitive. 61 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: Melton, we only have about a minute left, but you 62 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: just mentioned the stalemate in terms of policy. It also 63 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: feels like we're at a little bit of a stalemate 64 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: in terms of actual activity in crypto markets. 65 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 2: What are you seeingthy apathy, We're trading sideways. At the 66 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: end of the day, we look at at coinshares is flows, 67 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: if we look at flows into crypto products that are 68 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: publicly listening, publicly traded this year, as of two weeks ago, 69 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: we saw about seven hundred and fifty million of dollars 70 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: of inflows on the year. Over the last two weeks, 71 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: we've seen outflows as a result of investors taking profit 72 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: and really we're still very much in a risk off environment. 73 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: At the end of the day, the story is all 74 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: about flows. You have to look at the data, you 75 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: have to look at the numbers, and right now the 76 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: flows are telling the story that investors are taking risk 77 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: off the table. We're looking to see what's going to 78 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: happen in the next FOMC meeting and what the macro 79 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: environment looks like ahead, and I think only then will 80 00:03:58,360 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: we see more flows. 81 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: All right, Apathy the word of the day. Thank you 82 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: so much, Coinshares, Malton, Demirz. Appreciate you joining us.