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Speaker 1: one on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Brian Whittle,
Speaker 1: and I was the boom operator and sometimes sound mixer
Speaker 1: and one time actor on the Office. Well, hello everybody,
Speaker 1: and thank you for joining us once again here at
Speaker 1: the Office Deep Dive. As always, I am your host,
Speaker 1: Brian Baumgartner. This week's guest. This is this is cool,
Speaker 1: okay one, He's the greatest, all right. In fact, he
Speaker 1: is so great that the writers on the Office actually
Speaker 1: named a character after him. Do you remember the boom
Speaker 1: operator in season Mine, that guy, the one who almost
Speaker 1: broke up Jim and Pam. Yep, that's our guy. Well,
Speaker 1: that's our guy's name. Today's guest is Brian Whittle. Now,
Speaker 1: to be fair, although the real Brian was also the
Speaker 1: boom operator for the Office, he did anything but cause
Speaker 1: any workplace drama. No, Brian is a gym and he's
Speaker 1: known as one of the best in the business. He
Speaker 1: did an impossible thing for many. He mastered the art
Speaker 1: of mockumentary sound dealing with the long takes on the office,
Speaker 1: dodging crazy camera angles, and he participated in the many
Speaker 1: sound on sound off debates on set. Now Boom operators
Speaker 1: are known for their ability to soak up all of
Speaker 1: the stories. Remember they're hearing everything, you guys. Brian is
Speaker 1: not one to disappoint Today he is here to talk
Speaker 1: about the art of leaning in to imperfection, Steve Correll's
Speaker 1: Silent Airport goodbye, and well, of course, his notorious namesake
Speaker 1: on the show, Bryan Whittle. This really is a special one.
Speaker 1: I won't keep you waiting as our residents sound guy.
Speaker 1: Brian has done enough of that over the years, so
Speaker 1: please give a warm welcome to the incredible Brian Whittle.
Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeak. I love Bubble and Squeak on Bubble
Speaker 1: and Squeaker cook at every month lift over from the
Speaker 1: night before? Hello, check, check check? How do I sound? Five? Four?
Speaker 1: Read to one? He sounds great and exactly the same
Speaker 1: as always, Brian. How are you good? Good? How are
Speaker 1: you doing? Brian? Oh my gosh, it's so good to
Speaker 1: see you. We spent a lot of time in type
Speaker 1: quarters together. We really really did. How's everybody you're surviving.
Speaker 1: You're good healthy, Yeah, yeah, I'm doing really well. My
Speaker 1: kids they're right down the hall. They promised to be
Speaker 1: quiet to understand the importance of South. Yeah, definitely. So
Speaker 1: things are going well, things really well. I'm so happy
Speaker 1: to talk to you. There's well. I mean, there was
Speaker 1: eventually a very important character on the Office named after you.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that. How did you get into sound?
Speaker 1: What was your journey for for getting into sound? My
Speaker 1: journey for getting into sound was basically, well, I moved
Speaker 1: here with the idea that I think that a lot
Speaker 1: of people think that they're gonna be Steven Spielberg. But
Speaker 1: I was a little too irresponsible to follow that path,
Speaker 1: so I uh so I ended up doing sound, which
Speaker 1: was actually still really awesome. And basically I came here.
Speaker 1: I had a friend named Jeff Haley, who is now
Speaker 1: a very famous steady cam operator, who was doing sound.
Speaker 1: The person I actually grew up with back in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 1: and he was doing sound, so he helped me get
Speaker 1: into it. I got on this movie called Ed with
Speaker 1: Matt le Blanc from Friends and back in the mid nineties,
Speaker 1: and that movie was a non union movie that then
Speaker 1: struck and turned union and so I got very lucky.
Speaker 1: I got in the Union right away. Uh. And then
Speaker 1: shortly after that, I met Ben Patrick, who was Jeff's friend.
Speaker 1: He was just starting out to doing sound, but he
Speaker 1: was already a mixer, and he, uh, we did. We
Speaker 1: did a bunch of really low budget, really horrible, awful,
Speaker 1: hundred dollar a day, you know, crap movies for a
Speaker 1: couple of years. But I was already in the Union,
Speaker 1: and I just didn't know anybody, uh in the age
Speaker 1: back then there was still a lot of non union
Speaker 1: movies you could do. Nowadays, that isn't the case anymore.
Speaker 1: But you know, I just made phone calls and met
Speaker 1: more people, and uh eventually met a guy named Forest
Speaker 1: Williams who was doing a lot of spelling projects, and
Speaker 1: so I got on those and I basically did spelling
Speaker 1: shows Melrose Place nine O two and oh oh, not
Speaker 1: spelling bees. I didn't. Just that guy, Yeah, yeah, just him.
Speaker 1: And I did a bunch of his shows until about
Speaker 1: until basically up until I got on the office, you know.
Speaker 1: And then from then on I was like, okay, half
Speaker 1: hour comedy, it's the way to go. Did Ben Patrick
Speaker 1: bring you onto the office? He did? He did and
Speaker 1: uh not until the very beginning of the third season.
Speaker 1: He tried to during the second season. But during the
Speaker 1: second season, and you probably remember this, they didn't have
Speaker 1: a full order for the whole show. They would say, like,
Speaker 1: what we're gonna do two episodes? Oh we got three more,
Speaker 1: Oh we got two more. And he kept kept calling me.
Speaker 1: He's like, come over, come over, come over, because they
Speaker 1: kept the boom operators kept quitting on the Office. This
Speaker 1: was so hard, you know, because you would do like
Speaker 1: forty and fifty minute takes. That's a long time to
Speaker 1: put your arms up you or to be crammed in
Speaker 1: a corner, or to be you know, hiding under something
Speaker 1: or you know, contorting your body in these weird positions.
Speaker 1: But they just didn't have a fore order. But then
Speaker 1: when the third season came around, they had a fo order.
Speaker 1: They gave me a great offer. And The Office at
Speaker 1: the time was my favorite show. So to get a
Speaker 1: call to go work on your favorite show for a
Speaker 1: full season for a really good raid, I was like, hell, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm on my way. So you were a fan of
Speaker 1: the show, watched the first I watched it before I
Speaker 1: worked on it. Yeah, So him calling you were like,
Speaker 1: let's go. So what was it like showing up there
Speaker 1: then for the first time on a show that you're
Speaker 1: a fan of, and it sounds like you have done
Speaker 1: mostly drawing muz stuff before. You don't want to cross
Speaker 1: spelling drama. Yeah, so nighttime so gas, which we're pouring
Speaker 1: as hell. Yeah yeah, yeah. That was my main bread
Speaker 1: and butter up until then, which was still fun, but
Speaker 1: this I knew it was going to be way more fun.
Speaker 1: And also it was with Ben, who was one of
Speaker 1: my closest friends, right, so yeah, I remember, right, I
Speaker 1: was very excited and uh it was gay. Witch Hunt
Speaker 1: was the first episode of season three, which to this
Speaker 1: day is probably my favorite episode, and it was incredible,
Speaker 1: you know, because you get to see It's like when
Speaker 1: you watch a show and you're a fan of it
Speaker 1: and then you go visit the set and you see
Speaker 1: the set and you see that that line, you know,
Speaker 1: between your experience of just being a fan and now
Speaker 1: suddenly you're like, you know, behind the curtain and seeing
Speaker 1: how it all gets put together. So it was great
Speaker 1: and uh, I was ecstatic to be there. So you
Speaker 1: you were hired at the beginning of season three, did
Speaker 1: you note anything right, away about the set and how
Speaker 1: your job might be a little more challenging on this
Speaker 1: show than something before. No, I mean, the only thing
Speaker 1: I thought would be more challenging is just the way
Speaker 1: it was shot, you know, two handheld cameras and just
Speaker 1: with constant resetting of each scene that we're doing. We
Speaker 1: run through it, reset, run through it, reset. And if
Speaker 1: you remember, we shot on tape, you know, we had
Speaker 1: these Sony nine hundreds where you actually put like a
Speaker 1: videotape inside the thing, and I believe they were fifty
Speaker 1: four minutes long. So that was probably the scariest thing
Speaker 1: to me, was like, oh my god, we might roll
Speaker 1: for fifty four minutes. You know. It was like no
Speaker 1: longer on the sixth boom Operator in two seasons. So
Speaker 1: I was like, I hope I can do this now,
Speaker 1: do you? Did you have to do anything like work out?
Speaker 1: Kind of? Yeah? I started like, do made doing more
Speaker 1: with push ups and going to the gym, which I
Speaker 1: already did, but I just, you know, kind of did
Speaker 1: it more. And I never thought of like my job
Speaker 1: as being something I had to keep in shape for
Speaker 1: until I got to the office, you know. But the
Speaker 1: thing was, it was so much fun that you just
Speaker 1: didn't feel the pain until afterwards, you know, right, So
Speaker 1: to tell people your job as the boom operator, talk
Speaker 1: people through what that would mean like we're in the
Speaker 1: conference room physically, what described what what that would be like.
Speaker 1: The conference room is a unique situation which I'm sure
Speaker 1: everyone you've talked to so far has attested to. But basically,
Speaker 1: when Nick would be there too, Nick Carbone, who was
Speaker 1: the other boom operator and the person who put everybody's
Speaker 1: mics on, so he would generally get whoever seated, you know,
Speaker 1: So we'd both be back on the right side wall,
Speaker 1: and I would usually be in I'd be in the
Speaker 1: middle of the room along one of the windows, and
Speaker 1: I'd be reaching out for Steve usually or whoever was
Speaker 1: addressing the crowd, and I'd usually get him. And then
Speaker 1: whoever sat towards the front, which was usually Dwight, he
Speaker 1: sat over by the door kind of right, and whoever
Speaker 1: else would coming out of the door. So I would
Speaker 1: be reaching out and getting all those people, and then
Speaker 1: Nick would be back at the other other side. But
Speaker 1: I have to cram against the wall. Yeah, so he's
Speaker 1: showing me. So he's got both hands above his head.
Speaker 1: He is holding this mike, which is is not particularly heavy.
Speaker 1: It's made to try to be as light as possible.
Speaker 1: But most shows you how about I don't know, forty
Speaker 1: five minutes of lighting set up and then you shoot
Speaker 1: for about ten minutes. And we always joked that our
Speaker 1: show was the reverse, right. It would set up for
Speaker 1: ten minutes, try not to make the lighting all that beautiful,
Speaker 1: and then we would shoot for forty five minutes. So you,
Speaker 1: over the course of the day are I don't know,
Speaker 1: twelve to fourteen times doing thirty to forty five minute
Speaker 1: runs with both of your hands above your head. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was really challenging, to say the least. Um, what
Speaker 1: a lot of people have talked about is how confined
Speaker 1: the space is much more confined than a normal show. Obviously,
Speaker 1: on a lot of shows their walls that you can
Speaker 1: move from our initial pilot show, which was a room
Speaker 1: that could not be moved because it was actually production officers.
Speaker 1: It was a real room. When we moved to the
Speaker 1: sound stage, it was completely reconstructed exactly the same way,
Speaker 1: except I think Greg allowed like eighteen inches in the
Speaker 1: conference room. It was like eighteen inches wide for someone
Speaker 1: to stand after the side camera or yeah, but we
Speaker 1: were all in there in a very small space, especially
Speaker 1: when we had fourteen sixteen cast members or whatever in
Speaker 1: the room, the two of you, two cameras, I mean,
Speaker 1: very very confined space. Yeah, that's actually in that room.
Speaker 1: Or if we had say a lot of people in
Speaker 1: Steve's office for example, you know, that would be even
Speaker 1: more confined. Or back in like a corner of the annex,
Speaker 1: or in the break room where sometimes I would have
Speaker 1: to lay up on top of those vending machines that
Speaker 1: are in it. Oh, that's right there. Scenes where I
Speaker 1: would lay up there and boom from up there from
Speaker 1: just laying on my side on like a ferny pad
Speaker 1: or something. Or I would at least be tucked in
Speaker 1: the corner standing on an apple box with that and
Speaker 1: it's full extension and I can't have no weight behind
Speaker 1: me to leverage or anything. So it's really you know,
Speaker 1: it's like tipping you over. Yeah. The other thing that
Speaker 1: it's become kind of my go to joke on set,
Speaker 1: the camera takes forever to get set, the lighting and
Speaker 1: anytime there's a lighting adjustment or like a camera adjustment,
Speaker 1: it's totally okay, it's totally appropriate everybody stops respectfully and
Speaker 1: they do their word. When something happens with sound to
Speaker 1: the end of the world, it's like, immediately everyone gets
Speaker 1: so angry. Yeah right, like if you, oh, look, we
Speaker 1: need to make an adjustment on Steve's top, Everyone's like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I know. I don't know where that came
Speaker 1: from or why it is that way, but it is
Speaker 1: that way. It's universal every set. It's universal across all
Speaker 1: shows of all time. How does that make you feel?
Speaker 1: Is it aggravating? Oh yeah, it used to make me mad,
Speaker 1: you know, and used to make me, i don't know,
Speaker 1: hurt my feelings or whatever. And I'm like, hey, this
Speaker 1: is just as important as ever. We can't shoot unless
Speaker 1: we do this, so it's it's it's important. But nowadays
Speaker 1: it's just it's just funny, you know. And you know,
Speaker 1: I've been doing this a long time, and so you
Speaker 1: just tell them, hey, look we gotta fix it. Do
Speaker 1: you want do you want the sound or not? You know?
Speaker 1: Well that as you know, that has become my joke.
Speaker 1: Now it's set, which I just try to exaggerate it
Speaker 1: because it makes me laugh. I'll just go waiting on sound,
Speaker 1: waiting on sound. Everybody remember when we used to say, uh,
Speaker 1: you're getting carboned because of Nick, because you would have
Speaker 1: to come in and fix the people's mics, and we'd
Speaker 1: be like, oh, we're getting carboned. Yes, we're getting carbone
Speaker 1: and yeah. He always made him very nervous. He did
Speaker 1: not like that particular aspect of the job. It's a
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Speaker 1: your name? No, I'm good. Good, go ahead. We're the
Speaker 1: hosts of Ridiculous Crime. People love true crime, right, the mystery,
Speaker 1: the intrigue, the human frailty totally. But what a lot
Speaker 1: of us don't like is the blood and the guts
Speaker 1: and the mayhem. Wait wait, wait, wait, some of us
Speaker 1: do like the mayhem. Okay, but let's be real, there's
Speaker 1: nothing funny about murder. Okay, that's our show gives you
Speaker 1: stories like the kidnapping of Frank Sinatra Jr. And the
Speaker 1: Max Headrooms signal hijacking. Oh so you mean ridiculous stories
Speaker 1: like the UK cat Shaver and Pablo Escobars cocaine hippos. Yeah,
Speaker 1: stories like the dudes who stole Buzzy the animatronic whatever
Speaker 1: he was from Disney World and the woman whose husband
Speaker 1: tried to kill her but came back from the dead
Speaker 1: and surprised him at her own funeral. Yeah. That does
Speaker 1: sound good. You can find this new podcast, Ridiculous Crime,
Speaker 1: all over the place, the I Heart Radio app, the
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I don't
Speaker 1: know how you live Ridiculous Crime. I mean, in terms
Speaker 1: of the working environment, being a fan of the show
Speaker 1: coming on, did you have any other impressions of I
Speaker 1: don't know, other people that you were working with, greg
Speaker 1: Or or the cast specifically. Oh, yeah, Well, I mean
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things that were awesome about working
Speaker 1: on that show. And I mean it's hard to honestly
Speaker 1: talk about that show without getting emotional because it was
Speaker 1: such a incredible, just amazing experience. And I think one
Speaker 1: real big thing is that everybody who worked there was
Speaker 1: a fan of the show. Everybody who was there love
Speaker 1: to the show and cheered and rooted for the show
Speaker 1: and to be successful. And we all looked forward to Thursday,
Speaker 1: you know, at eight o'clock. That's when it was on, right,
Speaker 1: eight o'clock back then when you watch TV, when it
Speaker 1: was on, you know, everybody looked forward to it being on.
Speaker 1: And I can remember that website office tally right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So on Thursday nights at like five o'clock, it's eight
Speaker 1: o'clock back East, but we were all on set and
Speaker 1: we would all start checking our phones and going on
Speaker 1: because all those computers in the bullpen were real and
Speaker 1: you could go online, go to office tally and start
Speaker 1: seeing the comments from all the fans from all over
Speaker 1: the country. That was exciting, you know, to be part
Speaker 1: of something that that many people loved and and cheered for,
Speaker 1: you know, so that I've never experienced anything like that
Speaker 1: on a show before, you know, where everybody there loved it,
Speaker 1: because usually half the crew hates it and half the
Speaker 1: crew is like, I'm gonna be here, it sucks. How
Speaker 1: long are we going to be here? I never felt
Speaker 1: like that on the office ever, no matter how long
Speaker 1: the day was, no matter if even if we were
Speaker 1: remember towards the end, we were working on like Saturdays,
Speaker 1: and I think we worked on a Sunday and I
Speaker 1: didn't care. It was so much fun that it just
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't It didn't bother me at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that is. I don't think you can overstate
Speaker 1: enough how special and also unique that was, because you know,
Speaker 1: I say the same thing and people always sort of
Speaker 1: laugh when I say I'm a fan of the show,
Speaker 1: Like it regardless of me or my role or any
Speaker 1: of that. I shoot plenty of stuff that I don't
Speaker 1: ever watch, and it's not because it's bad or because
Speaker 1: I don't support it, or it's just I always feels
Speaker 1: like weird to go back and watch because there's nothing
Speaker 1: I can do. The Office was different because just I
Speaker 1: was a fan of the show. It wasn't like, you know,
Speaker 1: even though I was there from the beginning, I just
Speaker 1: I just love the show. And having the crew also
Speaker 1: believe so strongly in what we were doing, Um, I
Speaker 1: think made a huge difference. Yeah, no, totally, it does.
Speaker 1: It makes a huge difference. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of that came from Greg, because you know, Greg really
Speaker 1: embraced the crew and really appreciated them and saw them
Speaker 1: as a humongous part. I mean he let people go
Speaker 1: to the table read. You know, I remember going to
Speaker 1: the table reads and then be packed. And prior to that,
Speaker 1: the table read was like a secret meeting that no
Speaker 1: one was allowed to know about and and or talk about.
Speaker 1: It was like treated like it was this big secret.
Speaker 1: But on the Office everybody went. You know, if you
Speaker 1: could fit in the room, you could go. He would
Speaker 1: even let whoever is there. You read this part, and
Speaker 1: you read this little part, you'd be that, like the
Speaker 1: little day player parts that hadn't been assigned yet to anybody.
Speaker 1: And I understand why he wanted an audience for the
Speaker 1: have the script read an audience outside of just the
Speaker 1: writers that wrote it and the actors. You want to
Speaker 1: gauge like how many laughs you get, And that's really
Speaker 1: smart in terms of getting feedback for the initial script.
Speaker 1: It also makes the crew feel like a bigger part
Speaker 1: of the show that I got to watch the evolution
Speaker 1: of an episode from the table read to watching it
Speaker 1: on TV, and I never had that experience before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no one has brought that up, but I think that's
Speaker 1: a really good point. I think that there's a there's
Speaker 1: a preciousness that we did not have on that show.
Speaker 1: So what I mean by that is I think that
Speaker 1: show runners bosses are trying to protect writers and if
Speaker 1: if something doesn't quite work, they want to let them
Speaker 1: work that out almost in private or in as you know,
Speaker 1: ass to private as possible with people reading it. And
Speaker 1: in that aspect it becomes way more presentational in a way,
Speaker 1: even even the delivery of an episode becomes much more presentational.
Speaker 1: As opposed to collaborative. And I feel like what you're
Speaker 1: saying is really true. No one's talked about that, but yeah,
Speaker 1: the table reads were totally open. It was completely open
Speaker 1: to it, as you said, as many people who could
Speaker 1: actually just fit into Yeah, and at first or like
Speaker 1: thinking they're gonna kick me out here? Am I allowed
Speaker 1: to be in here? And like because I would really
Speaker 1: love to watch this if I can? You know? So, Yes,
Speaker 1: it helps. It helps the camaraderie on the on the set,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it just makes it makes the experience
Speaker 1: a lot more fulfilling. Yeah. The other thing that it
Speaker 1: does is it begins to get your creative energy or
Speaker 1: your thought sooner as well. Right, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: sound was used quite a bit as a as a
Speaker 1: tangible object on our show because because of the way
Speaker 1: we shot it and this documentary slash mockumentary style. How
Speaker 1: did that affect your job that aspect of how the
Speaker 1: show was shot? Well, I mean we we wired everybody
Speaker 1: for the most part, mostly as backup or if let's
Speaker 1: say we were in the bullpen and we're gonna zoom
Speaker 1: over to accounting, which is you know, generally the farthest
Speaker 1: away corner. You know, I can't swing over there and
Speaker 1: and boom obviously. Basically, yeah, honestly, it started the trend
Speaker 1: of having to wire every actor on set all the time,
Speaker 1: because every show that I've worked on since The Office,
Speaker 1: that's what they do. And prior to the Office, we
Speaker 1: basically never wired anyone unless it was a really wide
Speaker 1: shot or like a walk and talk down some narrow hallway,
Speaker 1: or you know, there was some physical reason why we
Speaker 1: couldn't boom it. But because of the Office, it became
Speaker 1: the norm. In fact, we had to buy a whole
Speaker 1: new recording system called a Diva sixteen that would have
Speaker 1: sixteen tracks on it so that we could put all
Speaker 1: the actors on their own tracks. It really it started
Speaker 1: this big thing. And then when they started up Parks
Speaker 1: and Wreck, the guys from there came over to see
Speaker 1: what we were doing so they could set it up
Speaker 1: on that show. Similar with Modern Family and like all
Speaker 1: the other shows that were kind of inspired by our show,
Speaker 1: you know, they needed to do this sound the same way.
Speaker 1: And so from then on, I can a every single
Speaker 1: show I've done, I have to have a multi track
Speaker 1: recorder with a mix on one track, and every individual
Speaker 1: actor on their own track after that, and it was
Speaker 1: never like that prior to the office. So that's one
Speaker 1: thing we did to accommodate the documentary thing that ended
Speaker 1: up being a trend. Right. It's so funny you bring
Speaker 1: that up. I think, as you say, it was a progression,
Speaker 1: and I think that there were sometimes I thought about
Speaker 1: this in the years. There were sometimes when you thought, oh,
Speaker 1: they're not going over to accounting, They're not going to
Speaker 1: swing over to accounting on this thing, and sure enough
Speaker 1: they would bomb Garter would open his trap. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: But I would keep my eye on you, See, I
Speaker 1: would want you. I could tell after a while like Okay,
Speaker 1: I know what's going to happen here, Like because after
Speaker 1: a while I didn't even memorize the scenes anymore. Like
Speaker 1: I just would read them once in the morning and
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, I got it, and just watch people's faces.
Speaker 1: Or i'd watch Matt, you know, interact with you. Or
Speaker 1: I could just tell from the dialogue like Okay, Kevin's
Speaker 1: definitely gonna react to this, you know. And so I
Speaker 1: would tell Ben in the mic, would be like, hey, Ben,
Speaker 1: Kevin's ambably gonna do something after this, you know. Or
Speaker 1: John is going to do something or whatever, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, after a while we had it down and
Speaker 1: we could just kind of predict and it was fun
Speaker 1: what was going to happen? Yeah, No, but I it
Speaker 1: reminded me of just sometimes maybe we would do, you know,
Speaker 1: a final rehearsal or do the first take, and then
Speaker 1: here here would Carbone would come in and we wiring
Speaker 1: me up when it was not not an expected moment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would tell him like, get in there and wire
Speaker 1: and something's going to happen. Yeah. So one thing I
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to you about significant sound moments on
Speaker 1: the show and what I mean by that, we affectionately
Speaker 1: call it sound or no sound, and a couple of
Speaker 1: moments that that stick out. One is the proposal I
Speaker 1: remember to me and Pam. Now, were you a part
Speaker 1: of that discussion. I don't think it was a big
Speaker 1: part of it, but I do remember Greg asking me
Speaker 1: my opinion. First of all, I've heard the original story
Speaker 1: from Dave Rogers, who I think just on a fluke.
Speaker 1: He just showed him a version of it. He's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we could do it like this, and then he played
Speaker 1: it for him with no sound, and then it turned
Speaker 1: into this like huge week long or two week long thing,
Speaker 1: this big debate, we're gonna do this sound or not.
Speaker 1: But my opinion was whether or not you use this
Speaker 1: sound should be determined by how why the shot was.
Speaker 1: I was like, look, if you're gonna play the proposal
Speaker 1: and a big, giant, wide shot, then it won't be
Speaker 1: such a big deal to not hear the sound, because
Speaker 1: from a documentary point of view, the audience will think, well,
Speaker 1: they're too far away, they didn't have their wires on
Speaker 1: or whatever, and you're going to see the traffic front
Speaker 1: of the thing, and you're gonna hear that and you
Speaker 1: can tell what's going on. But if you're going to
Speaker 1: be tight in and you don't have the sound, it's
Speaker 1: gonna look like a mistake. So that was my feeling.
Speaker 1: I was like, so, if you're showing their tight shots
Speaker 1: or whatever, or or from the chest up, then you've
Speaker 1: got to use the sound because otherwise it's just going
Speaker 1: to be distracting and look weird. But I know ultimately
Speaker 1: they went with the sound, and I know it was
Speaker 1: like the decision was made at the last minute, and
Speaker 1: if you talked to Eric Culjyn, he's there was the
Speaker 1: post supervisor on that, and I still work with him
Speaker 1: all the time, and I know he has the story
Speaker 1: where he has both tapes, one in each hand and
Speaker 1: they're like standing in front, like in front of Greg's
Speaker 1: house or in front of the studio or somewhere They're like,
Speaker 1: all right, dude, which one is it going to be?
Speaker 1: We got to decide right now. I'm glad he decided
Speaker 1: on the sound though. I think that was more satisfying
Speaker 1: for the fans. Yeah. So, I've had a lot of
Speaker 1: people talk to me about mistakes being okay, really leaning
Speaker 1: into the realism of the characters that existed in this
Speaker 1: real time and space in dunder Mifflin and not wanting
Speaker 1: to have hair and makeup people sort of constantly coming
Speaker 1: in and adjusting, you know, small pieces of hair or whatever.
Speaker 1: Or was there anything in terms of sound that was
Speaker 1: different on this show. Yeah, yeah, I mean, especially early on,
Speaker 1: I think that they were more on board with that
Speaker 1: idea earlier on in the show, and then as the
Speaker 1: years went on, we maybe tried to perfect it a
Speaker 1: little more, but certainly a boom could be in the shot,
Speaker 1: and I think there are some moments in the second
Speaker 1: and third season when you see the boom in the shot,
Speaker 1: and people didn't necessarily have to be right on mike,
Speaker 1: you know, or be perfectly miked. It could sound off,
Speaker 1: or it could sound far away, especially if the person
Speaker 1: was far away, you know, because on a scripted show,
Speaker 1: well this was a scripted show, but on a real
Speaker 1: scripted show, your job is to get everything perfectly and
Speaker 1: clean and then let post decide do we want this
Speaker 1: to sound far away? You know, and then they change
Speaker 1: it and alter it to make it sound however they
Speaker 1: want to creatively. But we were able to kind of
Speaker 1: just do that in real time if okay, well we
Speaker 1: didn't have enough time to mike him, and he's running
Speaker 1: in from this, so we'll just I'll just queue the
Speaker 1: boom over that way, and whatever it sounds like is
Speaker 1: what it sounds like. So you definitely have more freedom
Speaker 1: in that sense, right. Obviously, one of the huge moments
Speaker 1: on the show Steve's final goodbye and him taking off
Speaker 1: the mic to go into the airport. Can you talk
Speaker 1: to me a little bit about that, how that was
Speaker 1: achieved and and and your role in that. Sure, Well,
Speaker 1: we we had, so Greg came over and we talked
Speaker 1: about a couple of different ways to do it, and
Speaker 1: we even discussed the possibility of Steve handing me the
Speaker 1: pack and then I like show it to the camera
Speaker 1: and turn it off and we watched the light flicker
Speaker 1: off like sort of like a dramatic kind of thing.
Speaker 1: We didn't do that, but we talked about it, and
Speaker 1: then in a couple of takes, i know, Matt tiled
Speaker 1: it down and you could see my hand come in
Speaker 1: and him hand the mike to me when he takes
Speaker 1: it off. Um, but that was it was this sad day.
Speaker 1: You know. That whole period was just a blubber fest
Speaker 1: for for everybody, you know, and then we had to
Speaker 1: go through to again when the show ended two years later.
Speaker 1: We all had to cry every day for a whole week. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, that was that was a big day. You know.
Speaker 1: It was sad emotionally and and just to be there
Speaker 1: and I'm heat when you see him reach off camera
Speaker 1: he hands it to me, so which is kind of
Speaker 1: a neat moment. I'm like, he's handing that to me,
Speaker 1: I'm standing right there and he's gone, and he's gone.
Speaker 1: He walks out and you can still kind of hear
Speaker 1: like muffled, you know. Airport noises which I presumably I
Speaker 1: guess are for the boom. In a real world, you
Speaker 1: would still hear the boom, and and you would hear
Speaker 1: them a little bit too, although they were kind of
Speaker 1: far away. But I still like what they did. You know,
Speaker 1: to make it just more dramatic, I guess, yeah, what
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Speaker 1: The way that our show was shot, and I think
Speaker 1: part of it was the spontaneous way at times the
Speaker 1: camera moved around, which then obviously made you have to
Speaker 1: move around. I mean, I don't think gymnastics is an exaggeration.
Speaker 1: I mean we talked already about you laying on top
Speaker 1: of the vending machines to be able to get down,
Speaker 1: but when the camera was gonna swing, you had to
Speaker 1: swing out of the way so you wouldn't be in
Speaker 1: the shot. No, I mean we we would call it
Speaker 1: like a dance basically, and for the most part it
Speaker 1: was just the three of us, just me and Matt
Speaker 1: and Randall, and we're just like, Okay, you're gonna stand here.
Speaker 1: Then I'm gonna stand here, and then he'll say this,
Speaker 1: and you walk over here, and then he does this
Speaker 1: and I walk over there, and then we would just
Speaker 1: work out this dance and memorize it basically, and do
Speaker 1: it three or four times. Then everybody, the real people
Speaker 1: come in and then we do it like fifteen times
Speaker 1: and then we move on to the next one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it was super fun. And then sometimes I
Speaker 1: could be there if they're whipping roomy, you can't tell
Speaker 1: I'm there. You know, so there's probably lots of spots
Speaker 1: on lots of episodes where I'm in the whip or
Speaker 1: the other camera is in the whip, or Ken Kappas
Speaker 1: is in the whip sitting in the corner at a
Speaker 1: little monitor with Veda, you know. But I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of times it was just the three of us
Speaker 1: on that set, the only crew people there. You know.
Speaker 1: Did that give you a closer or different relationship with
Speaker 1: the actors than you've had on other shows. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: And I mean just the mirror situation of of all
Speaker 1: of us being in that room all day for you know,
Speaker 1: eight months or whatever it is. I mean, you spent
Speaker 1: more time with each other than with our families and
Speaker 1: our spouses, you know, and that that situation alone makes
Speaker 1: you closer. Yeah, But also just the intimacy of of
Speaker 1: the nature of how we shoot and the communication. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, so you're gonna you're gonna be here,
Speaker 1: and you and to walk here, and we gotta you know,
Speaker 1: we just gotta stay out of each other's way and
Speaker 1: let each other do our job so the scene can happen.
Speaker 1: It isn't necessary to communicate that much on a on
Speaker 1: a regular working set, you can kind of the hands
Speaker 1: off and just do your job. But that wasn't necessarily
Speaker 1: true on the office. You know, we kind of had
Speaker 1: to really talk to each other. It's occurring to me
Speaker 1: now maybe stronger sitting here talking with you again. I
Speaker 1: don't recall any other job that I've had where without
Speaker 1: talking to a director or a writer or a producer
Speaker 1: that I would have conversations with sound you or camera
Speaker 1: Matt or Randall and say, hey, I'm gonna do this,
Speaker 1: make sure you have made right. That doesn't happen now
Speaker 1: with you not saying like let me run that by
Speaker 1: the director or no, we just we just did just
Speaker 1: did it because we were going to do it a
Speaker 1: million times. Anyway, it's occurring to me right now, how
Speaker 1: dreams that is, I know, deciding our own rules as
Speaker 1: it goes along. Yeah, And the energy of that is
Speaker 1: really kind of intoxicating and fun. It just made it
Speaker 1: so much fun to be there. Like I love watching
Speaker 1: that opening. I think it's is the fourth season where
Speaker 1: Ed is in the elevator and they're doing that song
Speaker 1: that no no no no no no no opening the
Speaker 1: fourth season. That day was so much fun and all
Speaker 1: we did was that scene. We didn't do anything else
Speaker 1: that day. I think we wrapped at two o'clock. This
Speaker 1: that was so like, just to watch that is just god.
Speaker 1: That was just a super super fun day and I
Speaker 1: get that feeling a lot when I watched the show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and my kids watch it now too, which is great.
Speaker 1: Oh they do. Yeah, my son's really into it. He's thirteen,
Speaker 1: that sounds right, Yeah, and he's uh, he's definitely into it.
Speaker 1: You know, we watched that in The Simpsons. Those are
Speaker 1: two good choices that both stamped with Greg Daniels. Right,
Speaker 1: that's true. So you appeared on the show as many
Speaker 1: of our crew members did Customer Loyalty. You were a dad,
Speaker 1: angry dad. I think we're annoyed sitting next to uh
Speaker 1: to Pam there at CC's recital. How was that being
Speaker 1: on camera for you? Are you glad you did it? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was super fun. And that stemmed from, you know,
Speaker 1: the whole introducing the boom operator as a character and
Speaker 1: bringing in Chris Diamond Topolis and me auditioning to play
Speaker 1: myself and which I got to do. So I had
Speaker 1: an audition in front of Greg and Alison Jones and
Speaker 1: read with Jenni Fisher and you know, I'm not an actor,
Speaker 1: but Greg really wanted me to do it, and and
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I'll try it, you know, we'll
Speaker 1: see how it goes. And uh, And they ultimately decided
Speaker 1: to hire an actual actor, which is probably wise, but
Speaker 1: sort of as a as a joke, I think to
Speaker 1: the fans and as a thank you to me for
Speaker 1: like going along with everything, they gave me a little
Speaker 1: part in that same episode, the episode where they introduced him,
Speaker 1: and oh it was great, you know, that's awesome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So you're Brian Whittle character on the show, real life
Speaker 1: person the boom operator, as you said, played by Chris
Speaker 1: Do you know how that idea came about? Where you
Speaker 1: involved in discussions so you were asked to audition for it.
Speaker 1: But when did you become aware that that was going
Speaker 1: to be kind of a signature moment in the last season.
Speaker 1: The writers have been talking about it for at least
Speaker 1: a few weeks before that, maybe even a month. They
Speaker 1: I think for a long time had wanted someone from
Speaker 1: the crew to step through and be part of the show.
Speaker 1: Why they chose the boom Operator, I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: imagining because if it had been a camera person, then
Speaker 1: they have to have a moment where they put down
Speaker 1: the camera or hand the camera to someone and they
Speaker 1: walked over, so they'd be like that sort of interruption
Speaker 1: in the screen. But I think they thought, well, the
Speaker 1: boom that I could just walk on and it wouldn't
Speaker 1: be wouldn't disrupt anything, you know, So maybe that's why
Speaker 1: they picked him. But yeah, they were talking for a
Speaker 1: long time about what the story was going to be,
Speaker 1: how he was going to be, what he was going
Speaker 1: to be about, and they would mention it to me
Speaker 1: on the set, you know, all we're upstairs talking about
Speaker 1: you and what what's gonna happen with your thing and
Speaker 1: so and then eventually, uh, they figured it out and
Speaker 1: they wrote out some scripts and Greg asked me to
Speaker 1: audition for it. You told me after the office you
Speaker 1: you worked with Chris Damnontopolis on Silicon Valley. Did you
Speaker 1: teach him how to hold the boom? Or were there
Speaker 1: aspects of of you know, of him creating that character
Speaker 1: that you talked to him in that moment or now, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I just told him. He actually had like
Speaker 1: a different rig on. He had what's called an E
Speaker 1: n G set up which a documentary person would have,
Speaker 1: you know, the thing you wear on your shoulder that
Speaker 1: you see news people have or sports people, and uh,
Speaker 1: I just, you know, just showed him how to wear
Speaker 1: it and how to how to hold it, so it
Speaker 1: looked like he knew what he was doing. I don't
Speaker 1: think there were too many shots of him actually working
Speaker 1: as a sound man. He just stuff and came in,
Speaker 1: so it wasn't super important. But but yeah, he was cool.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about the fact that it was you,
Speaker 1: your name, that you know, tried to ruin one of
Speaker 1: the greatest love stories in television history. I mean, how
Speaker 1: does that make you feel today? Uh? It makes me
Speaker 1: feel great because I got to be I have a
Speaker 1: character named after me on the show. You could have
Speaker 1: been the most evil person there. It's still cool. That's awesome. Um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Since The Office, you've done a lot of work with
Speaker 1: Mindy Kaling. Right, have you worked on the Mendy Project,
Speaker 1: Sex Lies of College Girls? You have another little show
Speaker 1: called Champions that lasted for one season. We did that
Speaker 1: one also, right, you enjoy working with her? Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: been great. We did I think six five or six
Speaker 1: seasons of the Mindy Project. And that's where I got
Speaker 1: to move up to sound mixer. So that was great
Speaker 1: because I don't have to hold the boom over my
Speaker 1: head anymore. And then we went right into her championship
Speaker 1: after that, and then I did Yeah, I did Sex
Speaker 1: Lives last year, the pilot, but I've done some of
Speaker 1: Jenna's shows too, and or just I did Splitting Up
Speaker 1: together with Jenna. I love when our crew. There's nothing
Speaker 1: like it showing up somewhere and there's the guys. Um. Anyway,
Speaker 1: do you have any any favorite moments from the set
Speaker 1: of the Office that you remember? Favorite moments? Um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a bunch. I mean, the hardest I ever
Speaker 1: laughed and I broke all the time on set. Probably
Speaker 1: the same for many is the Christmas episode where you're
Speaker 1: sitting on Steve lap Yeah, I mean he's like, just
Speaker 1: say some toys. Just say some toys. I mean that,
Speaker 1: And plus I have the boom over my head, so
Speaker 1: I'm like this and I'm in a really uncomfortable physical
Speaker 1: position and it's way out, really long. I have the
Speaker 1: boom over the two of you and and everybody, everybody
Speaker 1: is breaking all over the whole bullpen, and oh god,
Speaker 1: it was so funny it is, and I'm like shaking
Speaker 1: and trying to hold this thing not drop it. Well,
Speaker 1: I realized that you were probably the only other person
Speaker 1: that could hear, because you had the mics on and
Speaker 1: you were there booming it. But I've said to people afterward,
Speaker 1: everyone who was laughing, they don't even know the half
Speaker 1: of it, because there was a sound that he made,
Speaker 1: very small that the mics obviously could pick up. But
Speaker 1: at the moment I sat down, he made this sound,
Speaker 1: and it slayed me every time. Now, were you were
Speaker 1: you really like sitting on his lap putting all your
Speaker 1: weight on him, or were you kind of like but
Speaker 1: by the way, and I just did this for some
Speaker 1: other dumb bit too. He looked at me after and
Speaker 1: he's like, it's not even heavy. It's not when you
Speaker 1: see on someone's life. It is not that. I promise
Speaker 1: next time I see you, I'm gonna sit on your
Speaker 1: lap and we're gonna we're gonna try it out. But
Speaker 1: he was like, no, it's not that. But oh no,
Speaker 1: he he made it seem like it was oh he
Speaker 1: sure did. Well, yeah, who wouldn't. I mean, that's that
Speaker 1: you got to do that? He did. I mean he
Speaker 1: nailed it. It was it was perfect. He nailed most everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he really did. He was amazing. You mentioned it before
Speaker 1: the tears of the finale, when you found out that
Speaker 1: the show was ending. How was that for you? Well,
Speaker 1: we all, I think we suspected it was coming, and uh,
Speaker 1: you might have been there when that time. Gregg came
Speaker 1: onto the bus. Remember we were shooting on that bus
Speaker 1: and he stepped on and he said, Hey, I just
Speaker 1: want to tell you guys, it's going to be announced
Speaker 1: on deadline in like ten minutes. He's like, just so
Speaker 1: you hear it from me, this is gonna be our
Speaker 1: last season. And then he made a comment because there
Speaker 1: were still several episodes left, and he made a comment.
Speaker 1: He's like, so he says, now that we know this
Speaker 1: early on, we can really savor it, right, which was
Speaker 1: a really a great way to look at it, because
Speaker 1: it was sad, but it was like, Okay, at least
Speaker 1: we know now it's not gonna be abrupt and we're
Speaker 1: just gonna you know, like some some shows you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're done, go home, right, you know, and but but
Speaker 1: on this show, it's like we knew, Okay, we've got
Speaker 1: five sick whatever was left episodes and we can really
Speaker 1: just come into work every day and really just love it,
Speaker 1: you know, until it's over. Yeah, but yeah, it was sad.
Speaker 1: It was Sam and you were there, you remember. It
Speaker 1: was like every time we're on the set's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this is the last time we're going to
Speaker 1: shoot in the annex with this person's ending here and this,
Speaker 1: and then we did. Then every setup was like, this
Speaker 1: is the last time we're doing this scenario and this
Speaker 1: is the last time we're doing this right, and it
Speaker 1: just it was just went on and on and every
Speaker 1: scene someone would break and just be like fourteen days
Speaker 1: also like shooting the finale, and right that finale we
Speaker 1: actually went to a ton of weird locations. There was
Speaker 1: the Arm and there was Kevin's Bar, and there was
Speaker 1: like the Q and a thing and you know, all
Speaker 1: these weird locations which we never did. And so it
Speaker 1: was like we were away for like seven eight days
Speaker 1: and then we went back and kind of did you know,
Speaker 1: the very end um to finish it off, which I
Speaker 1: think was always a great idea. It was it was
Speaker 1: right up till the end, right up to the ends,
Speaker 1: like to the rap party, like it was like it
Speaker 1: was we went to the rap party right after we
Speaker 1: rapped on Saturday that we were like two hours late.
Speaker 1: We relate to own. That sounds like us. It sounds
Speaker 1: like us. Um, listen, I love so much of what
Speaker 1: you have talked to me about today and the unique
Speaker 1: collaboration that we had between the cast and the crew
Speaker 1: and the writers and the producers, and is really a
Speaker 1: key ingredient I think to why the show is endured
Speaker 1: and how it's thrived now seven eight years later. Um,
Speaker 1: I'll ask you what I've asked everyone. Why do you
Speaker 1: think the show now is bigger than it was when
Speaker 1: we were working on it? What do you think the
Speaker 1: secret sauces Um. Well, the main reason is is that
Speaker 1: it's funny. But the sort of unifying reason is I
Speaker 1: think it's just because it's it's just very real while
Speaker 1: at the same time being outlandish. You know, everybody has
Speaker 1: these weird people they work with, and you know, these
Speaker 1: people that can be blown up into caricatures, and that's
Speaker 1: what this show does. It just blows up these people
Speaker 1: you already know into the weird people that you sort
Speaker 1: of make fun of them for already, whether they're that
Speaker 1: extreme or not. And I think everybody connects with that. Also,
Speaker 1: there's just nothing else like it right now probably and
Speaker 1: there never will be again. TV is totally different now.
Speaker 1: We don't have twenty six episodes, and it's not on
Speaker 1: at the same time, and we don't all watch it
Speaker 1: together as a country, and it's just, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just a very different thing. And that was like maybe
Speaker 1: the last really great, great television show of that era.
Speaker 1: And uh, I think that's my people love it. Brian,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. It's so good to see you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming and talking to me, and uh, and
Speaker 1: you will live forever Brian Whittle, the man who tried
Speaker 1: to break up Jim and Pam, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks buddy, sure,
Speaker 1: thank you. It's a great time. Brian, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: And I truly meant what I said. You will live
Speaker 1: forever both as Brian Whittle the character, but also you
Speaker 1: the real Brian Whittle office lum sound genius and the
Speaker 1: boom operator who didn't break up one couple, not even one.
Speaker 1: You broke up nobody, my friend. So thank you for
Speaker 1: coming on. And of course this isn't the end. I
Speaker 1: will be back next week for another episode of the
Speaker 1: Office Deep Dive. This one well with another love interest
Speaker 1: of Pam actually, David Denman a k A. Roy Get
Speaker 1: excited and of course uh coming soon my new podcast
Speaker 1: Off the Beat, More stories, more memories, more everything. I'm
Speaker 1: going to miss you this week, all right, I hope
Speaker 1: you'll miss me, but know that I will see you soon.
Speaker 1: The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by
Speaker 1: me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers
Speaker 1: are Emily Carr and Diego Tapia, and our intern is
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