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Speaker 1: Welcome to Monster d C Sniper, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed

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Speaker 1: in this podcast are solely those of the podcast author

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Speaker 1: or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent

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Speaker 1: those of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees.

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Speaker 1: This episode includes testimony and argument from court trial transcripts

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Speaker 1: read by voice actors. Portions of these transcripts are excerpted

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Speaker 1: for the purposes of this podcast. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 1: Good evening. One of the most terrifying crimes in recent

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Speaker 1: years left ten people dead the nation's capital and two

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Speaker 1: neighboring states, and a frenzy of fear for three weeks.

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Speaker 1: The Sniper case a year ago today, the first of

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Speaker 1: two suspects in the case went on trial, and the

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Speaker 1: opening day was surreal. I remember feeling very nervous prior

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Speaker 1: to both trials. Prior to the trial, we're told we

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Speaker 1: weren't allowed to speak to other witnesses. But then afterwards,

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Speaker 1: I remember being in the room with family members who

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Speaker 1: had lost people. That was so sad, so horrific. I

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Speaker 1: remember speaking to I believe Laurie, with us husband. I

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Speaker 1: was just still angry, you know, I just you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I just want to do something, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and be over with and make them pay for

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Speaker 1: what they did, to go and testify it was not

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Speaker 1: the problem. The real problem was just to go and

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Speaker 1: see them right in front of you. That was the

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Speaker 1: hard part. It was hard to be there in the

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Speaker 1: same room with them. It's was hard to see them

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Speaker 1: over there. It was hard to see their faces. They

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Speaker 1: don't have no remorse at all, both of them, not

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Speaker 1: at all, like it was normal for them. And that's

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Speaker 1: where you know, get me, you know, for people like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, I always say, these those those kind of people,

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Speaker 1: they don't deserve to be here. This is so horrific

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Speaker 1: to realize that these people is so impacted by the

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Speaker 1: actions of these two cruel people, and their lives will

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Speaker 1: never ever be the same. You know, I'm lucky merely

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Speaker 1: go along. You know, in my life, I do thank

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Speaker 1: God that it wasn't me. But you know, it's difficult

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Speaker 1: to remember that on an everyday basis because humans are

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Speaker 1: not like that. We just get on with our lives.

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Speaker 1: But these people, they think about it every day that

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Speaker 1: they lost a family member because of this totally senseless,

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Speaker 1: horrific act. There is a ruthless person on the loose.

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Speaker 1: What I nerves this community the most is the randomness

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Speaker 1: of the murders. Ordinary people doing ordinary things. All that

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Speaker 1: the victims appear to have had in common. Each was

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Speaker 1: shot to death by a single bullet. Be careful, these

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Speaker 1: guys are using weapons that are going to go right

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Speaker 1: straight through our bullet proof ess. The massive man odd continues,

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Speaker 1: but police admit they don't know who are, what they're

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Speaker 1: dealing with, or what their motive might be. From my

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio and tender Foot TIV, this is monster d

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Speaker 1: C sniper. The trials of John Mohammed and Lee Boyd

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Speaker 1: Malvo were scheduled to begin in October of two thousand three.

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Speaker 1: After they were caught, it was decided that the two

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Speaker 1: would be tried in Virginia. At the time, Virginia permitted

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Speaker 1: the death penalty for sixteen and seventeen year olds. Prosecutors

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Speaker 1: were hoping to convict both Malbo and Mohammed and sentenced

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Speaker 1: them to the ultimate punishment. Prince William County would prosecute

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Speaker 1: Mohammed for the murder of Dean Harold Myers, led by

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Speaker 1: Attorney Paul Ebert and Fairfax County would prosecute Malvo for

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Speaker 1: the murder of Linda Franklin, led by attorney Robert Horran,

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Speaker 1: but attorneys from Malvo and Mohammed made an early trial

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Speaker 1: motion to move the cases from those counties. Everybody who

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Speaker 1: lived in this area, in the Washington, d C. Area,

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Speaker 1: was essentially a victim. This is Mark Petrovitch, one of

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Speaker 1: the lawyers from Malvo's defense team. We all were afraid

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Speaker 1: to be shot at any given time. We all pumped

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Speaker 1: our gas and moved around as we pumped our gas.

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Speaker 1: We all dealt with the fear, the anger, the frustration,

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Speaker 1: just the outrage of the situation. And so anyone who

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Speaker 1: dealt with that would hold a grudge against anyone who's

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Speaker 1: accused of being involved in it. So we wanted jurors

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Speaker 1: who hadn't been in the middle and essentially this big

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Speaker 1: ground zero. We wanted jurors from outside that area to objectively,

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Speaker 1: in an unbiased way, determine what should happened with the case.

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Speaker 1: Petrovitch says. Transferring jurisdiction in capital cases is very uncommon,

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Speaker 1: but in this case, it was clear that Mohammed and

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Speaker 1: Malvo would not get an impartial jury anywhere near the

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Speaker 1: d C area. And so the motion was approved and

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Speaker 1: the trials were moved to Virginia b in Chesapeake Bay

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Speaker 1: in southeast Virginia. But Prince William County and Fairfax County

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Speaker 1: we're still in charge of putting together the prosecution and

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Speaker 1: Fairfax Police Lieutenant Bruce Gooth was in charge of assembling

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Speaker 1: the prosecution task force. We now have Malvo and Prince

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Speaker 1: William has Mohammed. Our jurisdictions are right next to each other.

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Speaker 1: I called a meeting with the A T F D

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Speaker 1: FBI Secret Service to discuss prosecution task force. We would

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Speaker 1: put all the evidence together in one packet, if you will,

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Speaker 1: for both trials. So if Mr Eber needed for Mohammed,

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Speaker 1: he could grab it. If Mr Harran needed it for Malvo,

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Speaker 1: he could grab it. You know, it's hard enough work

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Speaker 1: in one murder, and to have these thirteen shootings just

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Speaker 1: in our area, let alone what else went around the country.

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Speaker 1: You know, we knew it was going to be a

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Speaker 1: monumental task. Gooth says. They found an empty office building.

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Speaker 1: Within a week, they had filled the entire space with

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Speaker 1: dozens of desks, interview rooms, and computers. For over fifty

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Speaker 1: Task Force members. They quickly pulled a massive team together

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Speaker 1: and started preparations in Fairfax. Anything in a blue binder

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Speaker 1: is a murder file. So the blue file thing popped

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Speaker 1: up in my head that for each major thing we need,

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Speaker 1: we're going to make a blue file. For instance, the

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Speaker 1: Bushmaster to two three rifle, we had a book that

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Speaker 1: had everything you could want about the rifle. There was

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Speaker 1: a blue book made on the Caprice, where they got

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Speaker 1: the caprice, the history of the caprice, the interview of

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Speaker 1: the guy who sold them the caprice up in New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: And that guy was a great witness because Mohammed climbed

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Speaker 1: into the trunk of the car and he thought that

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Speaker 1: was weird. So I really liked this car. You mind

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Speaker 1: if I climb in the trunk and it goes yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can climb in wherever you want the

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Speaker 1: car six bucks, I don't care. So we ended up

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Speaker 1: in this fire room with about eighty blue books. We

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Speaker 1: had a file cabinet probably on thirty yards long. Over

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Speaker 1: the course of a year, prosecutors collected information and prepared

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Speaker 1: their case. Then, come the fall of two thousand three,

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Speaker 1: the task Force moved to southeast Virginia, where the trials

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Speaker 1: were about to begin. We basically rented out a whole

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Speaker 1: half side of this hotel had a big task force room.

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Speaker 1: They wired for computers and phone lines and now we

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Speaker 1: have to fly everybody in from all over the country

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Speaker 1: into Virginia Beach instead of the dollies. It was a

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Speaker 1: monumental task. We had two trials with hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: witnesses in each trial. After m court, we'd meet in

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Speaker 1: Mr Harand's suite or Mr. Ebert Suite and we talked

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Speaker 1: about who they want the next two or three days.

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Speaker 1: And then we'd call these witnesses and get them lined

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Speaker 1: up with airplane reservations and tell them where to come,

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Speaker 1: and then we have rooms at Stout for them, and

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Speaker 1: then we had to get back to the airport to

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Speaker 1: send them back home. And I was just it worked

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Speaker 1: out really well, amazingly. We didn't lose anybody, and everybody

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Speaker 1: showed up. John Mohammed's trial was scheduled to begin first.

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Speaker 1: He was being tried on four counts, two of which

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Speaker 1: were for capital murder. Prosecutors were hoping Virginia Long would

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Speaker 1: provide a path to the death sentence for John Mohammed.

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Speaker 1: Here's Virginia. Prosecutor Paul Ebert in Virginia, is our call,

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Speaker 1: like sixteen different categories that they can mount to capital punishment,

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Speaker 1: killing them, a minor robbery, rape, a number of thing

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Speaker 1: which it has to be an underlying predicate before you

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Speaker 1: can get to death penalty or even charged the death

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Speaker 1: penalty with any success. Strangely enough, Virginia, for kilmore than

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Speaker 1: one person in three years, that's a capital case. We

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Speaker 1: had the opportunity to bring in every one of those

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Speaker 1: murders to prove that. Aspect of the trial. Mohammed was

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Speaker 1: being tried for one count of capital murder in the

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Speaker 1: shooting of Dean Harold Myers on October nine, two two.

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Speaker 1: The second capital murder charge came from a new anti

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Speaker 1: terrorism law implemented in Virginia after the events of nine eleven.

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Speaker 1: Under that statute, a jury would not have to conclude

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Speaker 1: that Mohammed had actually pulled the trigger to be found guilty,

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Speaker 1: only that he had intentionally terrorized a large population of

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Speaker 1: American people. This case would be the first use of

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Speaker 1: the law in a criminal trial. Because it was so new,

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Speaker 1: it was possible for the statute to be challenged and

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Speaker 1: potentially overturned. But it found guilty on either count of

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Speaker 1: capital murder, Mohammed would be eligible for the death penalty.

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Speaker 1: The third and fourth counts were for conspiracy to commit

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Speaker 1: murder and illegal use of a firearm, respectively. On October

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Speaker 1: two thousand three, Mohammed's trial began in Virginia Beach. So

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Speaker 1: the Mohammed trial starts, and they pick a jury and

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Speaker 1: it turns into a zoo. The first trial for the

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Speaker 1: sniper attacks that left the Washington d C. Area traumatized

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Speaker 1: a year ago began with a stunning development. Sniper defendant

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Speaker 1: John Mohammed suddenly asked to represent himself, but judge said

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Speaker 1: he thought Mohammed was making a mistake, but granted the

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Speaker 1: request anyway, ordering the defense lawyers to stay on as advisors.

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Speaker 1: One of the really most alarming moments was when Mohammed

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Speaker 1: stood to represent himself. This is Washington Post journalist Josh White.

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Speaker 1: He had two of the best lawyers possible. Johnathan Shapiro

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Speaker 1: and Peter Greenspun are two of the most experienced trial

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Speaker 1: attorneys in Virginia. They're the people you want representing you

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Speaker 1: in a capital case. They have an immense amount of

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Speaker 1: experience and had been making the right constitutional arguments and

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Speaker 1: had been preparing for it for a very long time,

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Speaker 1: and he rested the case away from them. We had

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Speaker 1: never heard from Mohammed at that point, and he stood

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Speaker 1: up in court and presenting a case. Here's an excerpt

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Speaker 1: from John Mohammed's opening statement, read by a voice actor.

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Speaker 1: Good evening. I would like to thank the judge for

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Speaker 1: giving me the opportunity to speak. I like reading and

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Speaker 1: learning about words. One of the things I was fascinated

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Speaker 1: by coming into this strange world. It's three truths, the truth,

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Speaker 1: the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I always

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Speaker 1: thought it was just the truth. Apparently I was wrong.

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Speaker 1: So I did some checking to find out what is

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Speaker 1: it about these three truths? Same thing, but yet they

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Speaker 1: are different in an interesting way. It gave you a

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Speaker 1: little bit of insight into how he was thinking. What

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Speaker 1: he essentially presented was logical. He made the argument that

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Speaker 1: no one had seen him do anything, which was true.

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Speaker 1: No one had seen him do anything. No one saw

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Speaker 1: him with the gun except when he was arrested with

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Speaker 1: it in his car. His argument was he told him

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Speaker 1: an allegory about how his daughter had reached into a

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Speaker 1: cookie jar, or so he thought. I remember an incident

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Speaker 1: when I was in the Caribbean. My favorite daughter, believe,

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Speaker 1: but she loves chocolate cookies. As I was leaving one day,

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Speaker 1: she said, Daddy, can I have some chocolate cookies? And

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Speaker 1: I said, sure, I'll come back. We'll go to the

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Speaker 1: store and we'll get some chocolate cookies, but don't go

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Speaker 1: in the cookie jar and get no chocolate cookies until

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Speaker 1: I come back. She said, I won't, Daddy, I won't.

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Speaker 1: So I leave. I come back an hour later. I

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Speaker 1: see my baby daughter out in the yard like the

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Speaker 1: cookies in her head. I am upset now because from

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Speaker 1: what I seen, she disobeyed. I got the evidence in

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Speaker 1: her hands. I got her eating cookies. I even got

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Speaker 1: her sister saying she saw her going in the cookie job.

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Speaker 1: So I'm very upset now because my baby daughter lied

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Speaker 1: to and he blamed her for taking the cookies. But

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Speaker 1: he had not seen it, and it turned out that

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Speaker 1: he was wrong to have blamed her, that she didn't

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Speaker 1: take the cookies. She was actually putting cookies in the

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Speaker 1: job and I didn't know. I thought to leave, but

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Speaker 1: had disobeyed me. But she really, she really hadn't disobeyed me.

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Speaker 1: She actually got cookies from the store and not out

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Speaker 1: of the cookie job. I asked her not to take

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Speaker 1: cookies out of the cookie job, and she didn't. But

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Speaker 1: I was basing that on what I saw. I was

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Speaker 1: basing that or what I guessed at what happened. But

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that what happened. And his explanation to

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Speaker 1: the jury was, how can you hold me responsible for

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Speaker 1: something that no one saw me? Do you know? I think,

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Speaker 1: like in any criminal case, when a defendant starts representing themselves,

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Speaker 1: it's something that their lawyers really don't want to see.

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Speaker 1: And he stepped into a number of problems for himself.

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Speaker 1: Bruce Scooth says Mohammed's decision to represent himself was more

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Speaker 1: of a stunt than anything, and that stunt cost him

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Speaker 1: any amount of pity he might have gotten from the jury.

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Speaker 1: This is him. He's cocky, and he's making a complete

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Speaker 1: joke out of the judicial system. The court room has

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Speaker 1: family members in her of these victims, and he's basically

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Speaker 1: making fun of them. It is how cold this guy was.

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Speaker 1: He's trying to cross examine people. Oh, it was just

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Speaker 1: a complete zoo and a judge kept saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: use your lawyers, and the lawyers are mad and they

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Speaker 1: wanted a mistrial. After making his opening statement, Mohammed began

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Speaker 1: to question witnesses. So talk about crazy circumstances and weird

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Speaker 1: events in your life. I was being questioned by the

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Speaker 1: guy who tried to kill me. He wasn't the guy

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Speaker 1: that pulled the trigger, but he was the brains behind it.

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Speaker 1: This is Paul Larufa, the victims shot on September five,

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Speaker 1: two thousand two, in Clinton, Maryland. Larufa was sitting in

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Speaker 1: his car that night, about to leave his restaurant when

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Speaker 1: five shots rang out from the driver's side, shattering the

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Speaker 1: window and badly injuring his left arm and torso. It

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Speaker 1: had been just over a year since that traumatic event.

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Speaker 1: Larufa was dealing with PTSD and was still wearing a

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Speaker 1: brace on his arm. Since he was one of the

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Speaker 1: initial victims in the d C sniper case, he was

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Speaker 1: one of the first witnesses to testify. My fear was

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Speaker 1: is that, like you see on TV, the lawyer comes

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Speaker 1: right up to the witness box and gets pretty close

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Speaker 1: to you. And I said, that's gonna make me feel

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Speaker 1: really weird. And they said, now you'll be okay because

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Speaker 1: the judge made a ruling that he can't do that.

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Speaker 1: He can't get close to you. He was fifteen feet away,

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Speaker 1: and that made me feel better. It was still hard testifying.

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Speaker 1: I had told the story many many times, and it

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Speaker 1: was different telling it in the courtroom. When they called me,

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Speaker 1: I was waiting outside and they call you in and

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Speaker 1: you walk in. Talk about all eyes being on you.

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Speaker 1: A couple of hundred people are there, and it is

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Speaker 1: quieter than a church. You could hear a pin drop,

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Speaker 1: and you make the walk from the back door to

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Speaker 1: the front of the courtroom and they swear you in

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Speaker 1: and they asked me questions. You know, I broke down

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Speaker 1: a little bit when they asked me about being shot.

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Speaker 1: It was a lot more emotional for me than I thought.

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Speaker 1: And that was from the prosecution side asking me all

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Speaker 1: those questions. They're on my side now. Mohammed, acting in

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Speaker 1: his own defense, he said something initially that was crazy,

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Speaker 1: and the judge told him he couldn't say stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: He said, I know what it's like to have my

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Speaker 1: life on the line, or something like that, and what

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Speaker 1: he was implying was that me being shot and him

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Speaker 1: facing the death penalty was somehow the same. We were

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Speaker 1: both facing death. I didn't say anything. I probably could

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Speaker 1: have said, what are you talking about? You're crazy? And

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Speaker 1: then he asked me something simple. He asked me if

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Speaker 1: I saw the person's face who shot me. I said no,

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't see his face. And that was it.

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Speaker 1: To this day, it's just crazily ironic that. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how many people have that experience of being questioned

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Speaker 1: in court by the person who tried to kill you.

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Speaker 1: The same day that Larufa testified, prosecutors also called forensic

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Speaker 1: experts to the stand. The firearms examiner named Walter Dandridge.

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Speaker 1: He was the one guy that examined all the bullet

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Speaker 1: fragments and the gun. He's the one that made all

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Speaker 1: the matches taller cases. He was so good. The whole

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Speaker 1: world was watching, and so there was a lot of pressure.

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00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,160
Speaker 1: Dandridge presented his findings from the investigation. Forensics had linked

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Speaker 1: all of the bullets from the DC shootings to the

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Speaker 1: same gun. Those bullets also matched the ammunition used by

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Speaker 1: the Bushmaster found in the Blue Caprice. Work in the

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Speaker 1: evidence and then testifying it was much more stressful because

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Speaker 1: of the visibility. I was cross examined by Mohammad when

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Speaker 1: he was acting as his own defense attorney, and he

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00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,439
Speaker 1: didn't think I knew what I was talking about as

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00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 1: far as the handling of the fire arm, and he

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00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,960
Speaker 1: was kind of lecturing me on how this firearm work.

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00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 1: Mohammed only represented himself for one full day. Eventually Mohammed

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00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,199
Speaker 1: relented and gave the case back to his attorneys. He

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Speaker 1: claimed he had a toothache and could no longer represent himself.

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Speaker 1: But we did get some really amazing moments of hearing

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Speaker 1: him speak and question witnesses. And you know, one of

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Speaker 1: his most effective questions was did you see me do anything?

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Speaker 1: And the answer was no. The basis of his argument

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00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 1: would ultimately be his official legal defense that there was

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Speaker 1: no direct evidence linking Mohammed to the crimes without a

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Speaker 1: confession or witness who saw him at a crime scene.

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Speaker 1: All the prosecution had was circumstantial evidence. The problem, I

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Speaker 1: think ultimately was it was a very strong circumstantial case

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Speaker 1: against him. All of the evidence was in his car,

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Speaker 1: was on the gun, but still no one has ever

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00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 1: proven who he killed or didn't kill. The argument prosecutors

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00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,719
Speaker 1: made was it didn't matter who fired the gun. It

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Speaker 1: didn't matter whose finger was on that trigger. They used

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Speaker 1: some novel legal arguments to show that it was essentially

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Speaker 1: one system that killed the vehicle, was the weapon just

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Speaker 1: as much as the gun was, and that it was

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Speaker 1: a team that carried out these crimes. Records show that

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Speaker 1: the blue Caprice had been seen or identified at a

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Speaker 1: number of the crime scenes. Although neither Malvo nor Mohammad

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Speaker 1: were spotted at those scenes, both of them were found

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Speaker 1: in the car and that implicated them in the murders.

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Speaker 1: Here's Virginia Prosecutor Paul Ebert. Again, snipers are not solitary.

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Speaker 1: They have two or three mallion teams typically, and I

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Speaker 1: wanted you to know that right off the bat. The

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Speaker 1: most important part the sniper team is a spotter. They

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Speaker 1: look to make sure no cars were coming. A lot

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Speaker 1: of things into spotder, to do aid and a bed.

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Speaker 1: The actual shooter, an actual shooter, really had an as

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Speaker 1: your job allow export shot. Question is when do you

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Speaker 1: do it and how do you do it? To demonstrate

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00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: how the pair operated, prosecutors made a full size model

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00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 1: of the back half of the Caprice. They showed how

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00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 1: the car had been altered and likely utilized to make

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Speaker 1: shooting easier. Here's Bruce Gooth. We reenacted getting in the

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Speaker 1: back of that caprice with the back seat in it.

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Speaker 1: We used swat guys the same size, and we had

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Speaker 1: them crawl into the back trunk and how would you

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00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,719
Speaker 1: position yourself and you know, pop the trunk open and

347
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Speaker 1: put the barrel out through the hole they cut in

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Speaker 1: the car and blah blah blah. Mohammed's trial in Virginia

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Speaker 1: lasted just over a month. On November two, three closing

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00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: arguments were made by both sides. Attorney Peter Greenspun gave

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Speaker 1: the defenses closing argument. Here's an excerpt read by a

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Speaker 1: voice actor. You may convict John Alan Mohammed uncircumstantial evidence alone,

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Speaker 1: which is what prosecutors have sought to do here effectively.

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Speaker 1: When the Commonwealth relies upon circumstantial evidence, the circumstances must

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00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 1: be consistent with guilt and inconsistent with innocence. It is

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Speaker 1: not sufficient that the circumstances proved create a suspicion of guilt,

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Speaker 1: however strong, or even a probability of guilt. The evidence

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Speaker 1: as a whole must exclude every reasonable theory of innocence.

359
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Speaker 1: So that's where you get into what I call the

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Speaker 1: gut feelings. I know it, but can't explain it. This

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Speaker 1: instruction tells you that that is not sufficient to find

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Speaker 1: anyone guilty in a trespass case, but most importantly in

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Speaker 1: a capital murder prosecution, you're going to have to find

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Speaker 1: your own sense of comfort as far as what that is.

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Speaker 1: Then Attorney Richard Conway gave the prosecutions closing argument. Here's

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Speaker 1: an excerpt of that, read by a voice actor. He's

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Speaker 1: charged with the two offenses of capital murder. He's charged

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Speaker 1: with conspiracy to commit murder, and he's charged with using

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Speaker 1: a firearm during the commission of a murder. Yes, in

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Speaker 1: order to convict Mr Mohammed of capital murder of killing

371
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Speaker 1: more than one person in three years, you have to

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00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: find he was a principal in the first degree. But

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Speaker 1: for the capital murder during an act of terrorism, you

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00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: don't have to find that. We have the same first

375
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: two elements. That Mr Dean Myers was killed, no question

376
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: that the killing was willful, deliberate, and premeditated. No question

377
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,959
Speaker 1: that the killing occurred during the commission of or attempted

378
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 1: commission of an act of terrorism, and that either he

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00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: was the principle in the first degree or someone else

380
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: was a principle in the first degree acting at his

381
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: direction or order. So either way, and I suggest to

382
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: you that these two, him and Malvo are both principle

383
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 1: in the first degree. Over the course of two days,

384
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: the jury deliberated for six and a half hours. Judge

385
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: LeRoi Mollett Jr. Told jurors that they did not have

386
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: to find that Mohammed actually fired the gun in any

387
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 1: of the killings. He instructed them that Mohammed merely had

388
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 1: to be a joint participant to be found guilty. On

389
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:43,959
Speaker 1: novem the verdict came back. John Mohammed was found guilty

390
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: on all counts in the DC sniper shootings. He was

391
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: also found guilty of carrying out the attacks to terrorize

392
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Speaker 1: the population. Here's Virginia Police Lieutenant Bruce Gooth. I mean,

393
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Speaker 1: it was pretty clear that there's no way that jury

394
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: was not going to convict him. The evidence was so

395
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: overwhelming and it was pretty clear that you know, he

396
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: was directing the orchestra with him in Malbow. Prosecutors were

397
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: confident that John Mohammed would be found guilty, but their

398
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: primary goal was to get the death penalty. His actual

399
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: sentencing would be decided in the next phase of the trial.

400
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: For this phase, prosecutors had to call new witnesses who

401
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: demonstrated that Mohammed was in fact deserving of a death sentence.

402
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: One of the people to testify was Isa Nichols, John

403
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: and Mildred Mohammed's former accountant. I entered the courtroom. I

404
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: hadn't seen John since the day of his custody case

405
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: in Tacoma. So I entered the courtroom and he's there

406
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 1: to orange jumped suit. I was asked to identify him

407
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: in the courtroom, and I pointed to him, and I

408
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: wanted him to look at me, but he wouldn't look

409
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: at me. He just sat there in the stair. I'm

410
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: answering the prosecutors questions about who he was. He wasn't

411
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: the same man that I knew at all. He was disassociated.

412
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: He was still maintaining his innocence in this whole entire case. Finally,

413
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: on November three, after another five hours of the liberation,

414
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: the jury reached a verdict. As he has throughout the trial,

415
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: John Mohammed displayed no emotion when the verdict was read.

416
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: Death on two counts. Death penalty reserved for the worst

417
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: of the worst, and we thanking Mr Mohammed fell in

418
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 1: that category, and the jury agreed. Some jurors said today

419
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: they were moved by home video that showed a loving

420
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: Mohammed with his children. One juror said he originally voted

421
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: for life, but decided just last night that Mohammed was

422
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: too dangerous. The lack of remorse, the possibility, no probability

423
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: that down the road there will be more casualties from

424
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: this span. The big moment for me was when they

425
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: actually sentenced Mohammed. This is Bruce Guth again. I became

426
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: very close with Linda Franklin's daughter and her family. She

427
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,959
Speaker 1: lived in Virginia Beach ironically, and we'd pick her up

428
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: every day and take her to court. One of the

429
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 1: detectives and myself or somebody would pick her up and

430
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: her husband at the time, and she had a young baby.

431
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: She came to court every single day for both trials.

432
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: We were all sitting in court the day when the

433
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: jury came back with what the penalty was. The jury

434
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: comes back and they give the sentence of death from

435
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: Mohammed multiple times, and there was somewhat of an outbreak

436
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. You know, the families were not excited

437
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,719
Speaker 1: because some of them didn't even believe in the death penalty,

438
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: but they understood the law. There was like an initial

439
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: out person. It got definitely quiet. The hair in the

440
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: back of my head stood up. The court only allowed

441
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: a still photographer in the courtroom. They didn't allow TV

442
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: cameras or any other photography. So there was one photographer

443
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: way back in the corner the whole time of the trial.

444
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: And you hear click click click click click all throughout

445
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: the trial. So everybody gets up to leave, and Linda

446
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: Franklin's daughter comes over to me. The courtrooms pretty much

447
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 1: three quarters four fifts cleared out, and she puts her

448
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: arms around me, and she's weeping, and she just goes

449
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: on about her mother and what we did for her

450
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: and the Task Force and keeping her in touch and

451
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: you know, getting justice for her mother, and she couldn't

452
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,959
Speaker 1: thank us enough. And I lost it. I break out crying,

453
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: you know, I buried my head in my hands, and

454
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: I hear the photographer click click click click click click click. Well,

455
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: the next morning, wake up. My picture is on the

456
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: front page of every newspaper in the country, crying like

457
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: a baby in the middle of this courthouse. I took

458
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: a lot of ribbing for that. You know, it's just

459
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: that whole moment with her and how it affected her,

460
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: and you know, being exhausted, and it just finally hit me.

461
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: The judge would later accept the jury's recommendation and officially

462
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: condemned John Mohammed to death. He would go to Sussex

463
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: one State prison while he awaited a date for his execution.

464
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: My only concern was for my children. This is Mildry Mohammed,

465
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: ex wife of John Mohammed. When he went to trial,

466
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: my son said, well, Mom, I don't want him to

467
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: go to the court. I told them that whatever the

468
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: jury comes back with, that's what we're going to accept.

469
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: So when they decided that it would be the death penalty,

470
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: I asked to be released from work so I could

471
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: tell them. And so as they came in the door,

472
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: I told my daughters and they say, well, are they

473
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: going to do it tomorrow? I said, no, They're not

474
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: doing it tomorrow. There's a process. I'm pretty sure he

475
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: has some appeals and then after he has exhausted all

476
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: of his appeals, then they will determine a date and

477
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: at that time he will be executed. As before, Mohammed

478
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: refused to talk to anyone about what happened those many

479
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: weeks during the sniper spree. Meanwhile, prosecutors had to shift

480
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: gears to focus on Lee Boyd Malvo's trial. Malvo was

481
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: facing two counts of capital murder, one for the killing

482
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: of Linda Franklin on October four, two thousand two, another

483
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: under the same terrorism statute used to charge John Mohammed.

484
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: Malvo pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. His trial

485
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: began on November tenth, two thousand three, in Chesapeake, Virginia.

486
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: The defenses opening statement was made by Attorney Craig Cooley.

487
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: Here's an excerpt read by a voice actor. May it

488
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: please the court, gentleman and commonwealth, good morning to you.

489
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: They have a saying in Jamaica that describes the form

490
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: of child rearing that was used by Lee's mother and

491
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: many of his caretakers. It's called save the Eye. Save

492
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: the eye means you, as a parent, take your child

493
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: to a teacher, to a caretaker, anyone who keeps them,

494
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: and you say to them, use whatever is necessary to

495
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: make my child obey you. You can beat him. You

496
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: can beat him with whatever you want to, but do

497
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: two things. Don't kill him and don't put out his eye.

498
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: Save the eye. That's what that phrase means. Save the

499
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: eye is a concept that breeds, in fact, it mandates obedient.

500
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: And every adult that you will hear from that newly

501
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: malvo from a young child to his young adolescence is

502
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: going to boil down to if you ask them, tell

503
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: me one word, in one word, tell me about that child,

504
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: they're going to say obedient. And if you say, okay,

505
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: you can use two words, they're going to say very obedient.

506
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: And you are going to see from the evidence in

507
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: this case how that seemingly favorable quality in a child

508
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: made him incredibly vulnerable and susceptible to a man who

509
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: was prepared to manipulate him and took him in and

510
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: used him and trained him and indoctrinated him for his

511
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: own deluded purposes. The defense attorney's dressed him like a schoolboy,

512
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: for lack of a better description, when we go to

513
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: Catholic school, you had to wear, you know, little Khaki's

514
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: long sleeve white shirt with a little vest on. So

515
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: he'd come in dressed up like a young boy. We're

516
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: not going to address him with a big old rifle

517
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: across his chest, and we're not going to address him with,

518
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: you know, maybe a pot leaf on the back of

519
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: his shirt. You say, you dress them appropriately, and obviously

520
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: you're gonna dress him look at their age. This is

521
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: attorney Tom Walsh. He worked alongside attorney Mark Petrovitch on

522
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: Malbo's defense team. Here's Petrovitch again. To put him in

523
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: a suit I think would be artificial, that wasn't a

524
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: part of his background. That's not where it came from. Sure,

525
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: we certainly didn't want to air on the side of

526
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: making him look more mature. Of course, that would be

527
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: foolish on our part, so we made sure that the

528
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: clothes were more age appropriate for his age group, in

529
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: his age range. I think that's that's a fair way

530
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: to put it. But Bruce Scooth says that during the

531
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: trial Malvo didn't act at all like a polite young man.

532
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: That little piece of ship started getting on everybody's nerve.

533
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: The thing that really put me over the top how

534
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: he acted in court when the jury would come in.

535
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: He'd sit straight up like he was, you know, very polite,

536
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: and he'd write notes, and he, you know, wouldn't make

537
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: any faces. The minute to jury would walk out, he

538
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: would turn around and look at the families and smile

539
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: at the families, you know, just rubbing it in their face,

540
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 1: and you just wanted to go up and just grab

541
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: them by the collar. He was just beyond mean and cruel.

542
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 1: And then the jury walked back and he'd sit there

543
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 1: like a young school child. Again, that did not happen.

544
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: Those deputies wouldn't let him turn around. He sat beside

545
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: us all day during court and then he was out.

546
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 1: He was not disrespectful. I don't ever remember seeing him

547
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: laugh at a victim. A matter of fact, there's a

548
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: rule on witnesses, and the victims would come in and

549
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: testify and generally leave. They didn't want to stay in

550
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: the courtroom, so they would have to leave the courtroom,

551
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: so they wouldn't have a chance that breaks to turn

552
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: around and laugh at anybody. The deputes wouldn't let that happen.

553
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: Guth also says that Malvo would sit there and draw

554
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: for most of the hearings. Usually he drew the people

555
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: who went up on the witness stand. We'd come into

556
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: court for some motion, the judge would come out and

557
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: sit down, a deputy or two deputies would be in

558
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: between her and him. He would be able to draw

559
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: exactly what he saw. You know, the judge even looked

560
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: like the judge. The deputies was far down detail of

561
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: their shaff patches, and he put like crosshairs on the

562
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: judge's forehead or on the deputy's forehead. And he was

563
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: so good. I mean, the guy could have gone professionally

564
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: and been an artist. He was unbelievable. We encouraged him

565
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: to draw, and the drawings that he drew in court

566
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: were amazing. He's very talented and I still have some

567
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: of those drawings. There were some drawings that were out

568
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: during the beginning of the course where he's drawing cross

569
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: hairs of a scope on a sniper rifle, things of

570
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: that nature. We found out about the drawings and did

571
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: a search. Warran got all his drawings and we had

572
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: a whole book, one of the Blue Book of pictures

573
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: he drew. Used him against him, not that the prosecution

574
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: needed the drawings to prove his guilt. After Malvo admitted

575
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: on tape during an early interrogation to most of the shootings,

576
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: his guilty sentencing was all but guaranteed. When we go

577
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: back and look at it, the whole goal really was

578
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: just to avoid a death sentence. We knew there would

579
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: be a tremendous amount of information against Lee. They had

580
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 1: solidified a case that he at the very least participated

581
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: in all the shootings. His involvement may have been debated somewhat,

582
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: but there was a mountain of evidence against him. So

583
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: we knew we were going to be facing the death penalty,

584
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: and given that there were so many victims in such

585
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: a horrific path that they had gone through, we knew

586
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: it was gonna be a huge, uphill battle. So from

587
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: day one it was our goal just to avoid a

588
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: death penalty. Walsh and Petrovitch knew that prosecutors had the

589
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: tape of Malvo admitting to the murders and that they

590
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: would use it as direct evidence to convict Malvo, So

591
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: to avoid the worst possible sentence, they decided to make

592
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: the case that Malvo was under Mohammed's control the entire time,

593
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: and that when he admitted to the murders on tape,

594
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: it was because he had been brainwashed by Mohammed to

595
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: take the fall. This is why Malvo pleaded not guilty

596
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: by reason of insanity. Part of Mohammed's indoctrination was to

597
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: desensitize Lee to the violence, to shootings, to the consequences

598
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: of what happened. Mohammed was having him with earphones in

599
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 1: in Bellingham, Washington, watching video games, in violent video games,

600
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: so that was part of it. That was part of

601
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: the indoctrination on shooting things without any feelings. That was

602
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: during the time when he started to shoot guns and stuff.

603
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: Petrovitch says that in court, the defense played a video

604
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: tape that Mohammed often made Malvo watch. It was an

605
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 1: instructional video with advice for snipers, Carlos Hathcock Marine sniper.

606
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: It was an interview of him, and he would talk

607
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 1: about how he would line his kills up and how

608
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 1: he would shoot somebody from long distances yet could see

609
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: that the he got the bullet right through the eye,

610
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: and after each kind of anecdotal segment of his interview,

611
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: he would kind of chuckle and say and it was

612
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: kind of a cadence throughout the interview. Just so it

613
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: happened right way Zero comes home with a hamburger, and

614
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: he stepped right across the spot where was he going

615
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: and he been old, brush his teeth, get a drink,

616
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: whatever you're doing. And if he handerstood up, I went

617
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 1: over the head. But as luck would happen, East did up.

618
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: He caught that chuck lad. And then we drew the

619
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: parallel between that interview and Lee's interview when they first

620
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: brought him into the Massy building, when they first brought

621
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 1: him into Virginia, and when you listen to the interrogation,

622
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: that's how Lee answered the questions. He would say something

623
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: and he would give it that chuckle, the exact same

624
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: cadence and the exact same chuckle. And that illustrated the

625
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: point that this is how Mohammed controlled him and indoctrinated

626
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: him and essentially programmed him what to do and how

627
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: to do it. So their whole defense was a Malo

628
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: was a kid. He didn't know what he was doing.

629
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: He grew up in Jamaica, he didn't have a father,

630
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: His father did nothing with them, spent little time, and

631
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: they just paraded witness after witness after witness. The defence

632
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: team also wanted to prove that before John Mohammed came

633
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: into Malboe's life, he was an intelligent, well mannered child.

634
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: When you want to tell a story in court, it's

635
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 1: best to tell that story through anecdotal witnesses that can

636
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: provide details of what they actually observed and what the

637
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: people were actually doing at certain times. Why was it

638
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: important to get the witnesses from the Caribbean, from Washington State,

639
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: from Louis at it because they showed to the court

640
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,959
Speaker 1: directly to the jury directly what they observed with League

641
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: growing up in the Caribbean, and then the interactions between

642
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: Mohammed and Lee after Lee met him, and what was

643
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: going on with regard to the indoctrination. And they also

644
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: really highlighted how he was a good student and was

645
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: just really eager to learn. He wanted to pursue education,

646
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: and he never got the chance to settle down in

647
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: any one place. This was a good narrative that we

648
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: wanted to present to the journey to show why he

649
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: got into the predicament he got into. This wasn't Lee,

650
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: this was John Mohammed. But the prosecution also had witness

651
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: testimony that they could use to their advantage. Like Mohammed,

652
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: Malvo had to face witnesses, family members, and the victims themselves.

653
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:51,240
Speaker 1: Here's Bruce Gooth, the witnesses were even better than I anticipated.

654
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: There was a doctor who was at the Exxon where

655
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: a taxi driver was filling up gas and he gets

656
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: shot while he's umping gas, and this pediatrician is in

657
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 1: the car next to him, and she sees this blood

658
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: spatter and him slide down and she runs over and

659
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: helps him. That pediatrician was Dr Caroline Namro. She says

660
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: it was jarring to come face to face with Malville

661
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: for the first time. I remember feeling just basically shock

662
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: and disbelief that he could have done this. Where the

663
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: witness stand was placed was very close, maybe a few

664
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: feet away from the defense table. And I remember he

665
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: was wearing a cream sweater, like almost like an Irish

666
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: nit and you know, he was a good looking boy,

667
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: and he was drawing on a pad the whole time

668
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: that the prosecutor was asking me questions. I remember looking

669
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 1: over and he was just drawing, and I remember the

670
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: he just looks so innocent. How shocking, how shocking that

671
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: a person who could commit such evil acts could look

672
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: like that, like this innocent young teenager. I've never been

673
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: face to face with the murderer before. You sort of

674
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: expect in your mind somebody's gonna look evil. But then

675
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 1: when you actually faced with this young, innocent, good looking

676
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: guy like he did this, he could do this, This

677
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: was inside him to commit such horrific acts of violence.

678
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: It totally blows your mind. I was totally shocked. Namro

679
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: recount at the morning of October three in grave detail

680
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: for the jury. She told them how she was pumping

681
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: gas when she heard a loud bang and prim Kumara

682
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 1: Wallacker collapsed on the side of her car, his blood everywhere.

683
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: She runs over and helps him, you know, does doctor

684
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: stuff to try to save him. And he keeps saying

685
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: to her, I'm gonna die or I'm going to die,

686
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: And she said, I had to lie to him. She goes,

687
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: I told him he was going to live, but I

688
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: knew he was going to die. She had the whole

689
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: courtroom crying. You know, that was one of those moments,

690
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: you know, it put the whole thing in Respective how

691
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 1: they ruined families, the jury had to determine whether Malvo

692
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: truly had been under the control of John Mohammed when

693
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: he committed his crimes, but the question of whether Malvo

694
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:31,240
Speaker 1: was quote brainwashed is to this day a point of contention.

695
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 1: I believe that Lee Malvo. When I looked at him,

696
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 1: I knew he was a victim. He was a child

697
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 1: who had been brainwashed because I knew John and what

698
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: he was capable of. This is Isa Nichols, again, the

699
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: former accountant for John and Meldry Mohammed. She attended Malvo's

700
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: trial as an audience member, and I think back as

701
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 1: I stared at him, he had to be fifteen when

702
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: he met John in Antigua. He was very young and

703
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: considered John his father because he was calling him dad.

704
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 1: He didn't have his father in his life. So whatever

705
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: they did in Antigua, John became that role. John had

706
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 1: trained him and turned him into a killer. Isa believes

707
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: the defense's argument that Malvo was brainwashed by John Mohammed,

708
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: but Virginia Police Lieutenant Bruce Gooth is not so convinced.

709
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: I don't think he was brainwashed. You know, I'm not

710
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: a doctor, but you know been doing this a long time.

711
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: Clearly Mohammed was influencing him, and Mohammed got him into this.

712
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: It became almost a video game to Malvo, and he

713
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 1: liked it. He liked killing. You know, I'm convinced if

714
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 1: he got out tomorrow he would do it again. His

715
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: i Q was out of this world. So you know

716
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: this notion that he didn't know what he was doing

717
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: when he ceased. Linda Franklin's head getting blown off, or

718
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: lady sitting on the bus stop read a book and

719
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: the bullet goes through the book into her head. But

720
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: many experts believed that Malvo was not in control of

721
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: his actions, including psychologist Jonathan Mack, who co wrote a

722
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 1: book about Malvo. He was a juvenile at the time

723
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: that this occurred. He was completely innocent at the time

724
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 1: when Mohammed found him, and over the course of a

725
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 1: year and a half two years, because Malvo was so

726
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: susceptible to brainwashing, yes, he became essentially the puppet of

727
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: this fortysomething year old bad actor, Mohammed. Max says that

728
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 1: Malvo was especially vulnerable because he had experienced a lot

729
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: of violence growing up in Jamaica, and because he had

730
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: little to no parental guidance or home stability. As a result,

731
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: Malvo developed with mac colls reactive attachment disorder, where he

732
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: coped by blindly attaching himself to whoever will care for him.

733
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: I don't think it can be stated strongly enough that

734
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: you take an individual with reactive attachment disorder chronic depression,

735
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: with one broken attachment after another, who is trying to

736
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 1: do well, who is a model student new school for

737
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: the most part, and abandon him in a shock and

738
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: expect that he's not going to be vulnerable to a

739
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 1: bad actor if the bad actor happens to be smart

740
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: enough to show the kid what the kid needs and

741
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 1: it's desperately looking for you. Combine that with the fact

742
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: that the adult brain is not fully mature, as we

743
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,919
Speaker 1: have learned in the past twenty years, until the age

744
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: of five, and that in particular executive frontal function, which

745
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: involves reflection on our behavior and making choices that disinhibit

746
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: impulse or impulsive decisions in favor of doing the right thing,

747
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 1: that part of the brain is not fully pruned and

748
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: developed until mid twenties. Mohammed got started when Malvo was

749
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: ten years junior to that, at the age of fifteen.

750
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: Max says that Mohammed used movies and video games as

751
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: part of his indoctrination of Malvo. One of those movies

752
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: was The Matrix, The Reality and the Matrix. There was

753
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: no absolute right and wrong, right and wrong became relative

754
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: to the Master's view. During one scene, the master in

755
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: this case Morpheus, instructs the student Neo about the parameters

756
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: of reality within the matrix. Morpheus says, quote, the matrix

757
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: is a system, Neo, that system is our enemy. But

758
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: when you're inside, you look around. What do you see? Businessman, teachers, lawyers, carpenters,

759
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,439
Speaker 1: the very minds of the people we are trying to save.

760
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: But until we do, these people are still a part

761
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: of that system, and that makes them our enemy. He

762
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: had to rewrite Malvo's conscience and begin to inculcate a

763
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: structure in Malbo's mind where right and wrong were never absolute,

764
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: but according to what the Master said, it was, And

765
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: Mohammed put himself in the place of the Master, which

766
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: was fairly easy to do with Malvo because he was

767
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: so desperate to have a father figure. Mac is of

768
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: the opinion that Mohammed was enough of an influence on

769
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: Malvo that he did, in fact brainwash him into doing

770
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: his bidding, But not everyone is convinced that brainwashing, as

771
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 1: we think of it, is even a real thing. I

772
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: think the word is just so loaded. The word is

773
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 1: just so electric and so powerful that to say brainwashing

774
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: basically dismisses everything. My name is Jenny Riker. I teach

775
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: in the psychology apartment at Rocky Mountain College in Billings, Montana.

776
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 1: I've published on brainwashing and Satanism, specifically how they relate

777
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: to the legal system. Psychological techniques, no matter how well

778
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: they're applied, cannot overcome free will. There's no amount of

779
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: psychological coercion that would force somebody to, let's say, kill,

780
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: if they didn't already have some kind of predisposition. According

781
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: to Record, it's highly unlikely that Mohammed's influence alone would

782
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: completely change Mohammed's decision making ability. Somewhere, Malvo's own willpower

783
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: had to come into play when he made certain choices.

784
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 1: It's a combination of both, basically, as a combination of

785
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: a person's predisposition and exposure to these techniques and circumstance

786
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: that leads to this outcome. But brainwashing basically dismisses everything. Okay,

787
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: they were brainwashed, that's fine. No, it's just not that simple.

788
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: Human beings are in incredibly complex. Still, Records suggests that

789
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 1: Malvo's defense is a logical one, backed up by some science.

790
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 1: In the academic study of quote unquote brainwashing. Many of

791
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: the targets of brainwashing were typically American use. They were

792
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: typically pretty isolated from family and friends. You take somebody

793
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: who doesn't have very strong social ties, who don't have

794
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: clear paths ahead of them, You monopolize their time, you

795
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 1: reward desired behaviors, then you can get some compliance. Much

796
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: of Malvo's story backed up his susceptibility to something like brainwashing.

797
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: That makes the question of whether Malbo had sufficient agency

798
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: even muddier. But all that really mattered was whether the

799
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: court believed he was in control of his actions and

800
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: if he could be rehabilitated. We asked record how the

801
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: brainwashing defense might hold up for Malbo's insanity plea. Many

802
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: times sentences are just ide it based on whether or

803
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: not that person is considered kind of a danger to

804
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 1: the community in the future, Like what's the likelihood that

805
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: they'll commit this heinous crime again, And brainwashing is a

806
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: pretty easy scapegoat. Well, if we deprogrammed them or we

807
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: reverse this socialization, then there's no chance they'll ever commit

808
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 1: that kind of crime again. I think somebody might try

809
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: to use something like brainwashed behavior to support something like

810
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: an insanity please, but insanity please are so incredibly rare.

811
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 1: Courts very rarely accept them even when defendants try to

812
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 1: use them, And when they are accepted, they're very, very

813
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:39,919
Speaker 1: rarely successful. Most standards for admissibility of scientific evidence really

814
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: don't allow for brainwashing to be entered as scientific evidence.

815
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: It really just it doesn't meet the hurdles. Essentially. Malvo's

816
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: trial lasted roughly five weeks. On December three, both sides

817
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: made their closing arguments. Attorney Michael arav gave the defenses statement.

818
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 1: Here's an excerpt writ by a voice actor. Was Lee captive?

819
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,760
Speaker 1: What else can you call it? He could not escape

820
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: from John Mohammed. The day he met John Mohammed, he

821
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: lost Lee Malvo Without sounding overly melodramatic, the last victim

822
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: of John Mohammed sits at the defense table today. That

823
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: is the last victim. Malvo is the last victim of

824
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 1: John Mohammed. All we ask is that you do one

825
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: of two things today. You can either find Lee not

826
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 1: guilty by reason of insanity, and you have to reach

827
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: down to your conscience to do that. It is a

828
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 1: very difficult decision. I believe we've proved our case to you.

829
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: If you cannot reach that conclusion. I ask you to

830
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: find him guilty of murder in the first degree. Lee

831
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: was not the shooter. He was not the operative behind

832
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: the letters, not the idea man. He was a follower.

833
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,760
Speaker 1: He was a pawn molded like a piece of clay

834
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: to John Mohammed. Attorney Robert Horan gave the prosecution's closing argument.

835
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: Here's an excerpt read by a voice actor members of

836
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 1: the jury. There's no such thing as a good murder.

837
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: They don't make them. They're all bad. And we submit

838
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,919
Speaker 1: to you that this one is as bad as any.

839
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 1: The notion of killing innocent people, working people, ordinary citizens,

840
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,720
Speaker 1: killing them at random on the public streets. It's about

841
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 1: as reprehensible as you can get it. And we make

842
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: no excuses for John Mohammed. He's as bad as he is.

843
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,839
Speaker 1: But for all intents and purposes, their peas in a pod.

844
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: The only difference is Malvo's younger. But their willingness to kill,

845
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: and their willingness to do it for money, that's common

846
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: to both of them. The most reprehensible of killing should

847
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 1: be called what it is. It is a capital killing

848
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 1: under the terrorism statue. It is a capital killing under

849
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: the statute for killing two people within three years. We

850
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: ask you, members of the jury, in all earnestness, to

851
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: give him justice, give him a conviction for the two

852
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 1: capital murders that he committed. Thank you. After closing arguments,

853
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:29,399
Speaker 1: the jury deliberated for two days. Then on December thousand three,

854
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:35,720
Speaker 1: the verdict came back. Lee Boyd Malvo was found guilty

855
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: on both counts of capital murder. Based on Virginia law

856
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: at the time, he was eligible for the death penalty.

857
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: Now his trial would move into the sentencing phase, where

858
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: his fate would be decided. Each side had to present

859
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: an argument for why Malvo should or should not be

860
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 1: sentenced to death. Attorney Robert Iran again gave the prosecution's argument.

861
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: Here's an excerpt read by a voice actor. What was

862
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: particularly sinister about this defendant is there is not an

863
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 1: ounce of remorse. You have heard him sobbing and crying

864
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: on different occasions. He is crying for himself. Is not

865
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: prying for all those people he killed. He did not

866
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,240
Speaker 1: cry for Kenya Cook, He did not cry for Linda Franklin,

867
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: He did not cry for Conrad Johnson. He sobs for himself.

868
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: Remorse they have to invent it in order for you

869
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 1: to find it. We submit to you it is not

870
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: in this record. No remorse, Members of the jury, we

871
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: submit to you. He is a major player. Is not

872
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: only a major player, he is the sniper. Remember he

873
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: says on that tape talking about Mohammed, we are a team, team, team,

874
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 1: that is what he said. And they were an unholy team,

875
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: a team that was as vicious, as brutal, as uncaring

876
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: as you could find. Talk about John Mohammed all you want.

877
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: Maybe it was his plan, maybe it was his idea.

878
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 1: But the evidence stamps this defendant as the shooting. The

879
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: evidence stamps this defendant as the killer. Members of the jury,

880
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: we ask you for the penalty of death because the

881
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 1: evidence calls for it. The evidence tells you you are

882
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: dealing with the defendant who has proven by his actions

883
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: that he has a depraved mind, and so we ask

884
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 1: you for the ultimate punishment. Attorney Craig Cooley gave the

885
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 1: defense his argument. Here's an excerpt read by a voice actor.

886
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: Every life is precious, certainly the lives of innocent people

887
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: who are lost by the delusions of John Mohammed. And

888
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: also so precious is the life of Lee Malvo. But

889
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: what lesson does the Commonwealth seek for us to send

890
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 1: to our children when it urges us to kill this child,

891
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 1: to teach them that killing is wrong. Our children should know,

892
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: and Lee should know, that when you commit terrible acts,

893
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: there is terrible punishment to follow. There are consequences. But

894
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: you and I need to remember that the two greatest

895
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:30,959
Speaker 1: qualities we as human beings possess our compassion and love,

896
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 1: and it's by our exercise of those that we all

897
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: ultimately will be judged. Lee's life is about to be

898
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: put in the hands of others. We're about to entrust

899
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: the life of this child to you, and in a

900
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: very real sense, you are the last of the very

901
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: long line of caretakers to exercise your compassion. I leave

902
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: you with a phrase. It's a phrase that both invites

903
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: you to meet punishment, but also to temper it, to

904
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: draw the line short of the ultimate punish the child,

905
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 1: save the eye. The Virginia jury was faced with one

906
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: of the most difficult decisions imaginable. Should they sentence Malva,

907
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: who was a minor during the time of his crimes,

908
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: to death. There were so many questions to consider. Was

909
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: Malvo so influenced by Mohammed that he lacked free will

910
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: when he committed murder. Was his confessional authentic or did

911
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 1: he confess under the direction of Mohammed? And if he

912
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: was supposedly brainwashed, did that mean he could be rehabilitated

913
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 1: and thus safe to walk the streets again. And regardless

914
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 1: of Malva, should anyone who commits a i'm as a

915
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 1: teenager be sentenced to death, however heinous the crime? And

916
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: what about the victims and their families? What was the

917
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: right sentence to see that justice was served for them?

918
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: Where these moral and ethical boundaries are drawn is completely

919
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: in the eye of the beholder. But nonetheless, on December three,

920
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: just two days before Christmas, the jury reached its decision.

921
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: Next time on Monster d C Sniper. I remember standing

922
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: in court when that verdict came in, stand right beside him,

923
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: and that was it. There was just a surge of emotion.

924
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 1: People screamed out, Mom, you know, we really want to

925
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: talk today. So I called the warden. The warden said,

926
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: your children are under eighteen. He said, so that means, see,

927
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: you have to come with him. I went to the execution,

928
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: you know, with the pain and all the angler there.

929
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: Huh that was going to release me, all right, just

930
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: a rifle of the scope, so you had him in

931
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: your size. He didn't die immediately, and I had to go.

932
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: I didn't get it. They shot people from Washington to

933
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 1: Arizona to allegedly Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina. What we

934
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: know is the d C Snipers is really the United

935
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: States Snipers. Monster DC Sniper is a fifteen episode podcast

936
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: hosted by Tony Harris and produced by iHeart Radio and

937
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. Matt Frederick and Alex Williams are executive producers

938
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 1: on behalf of I Heeart Radio, alongside producers Trevor Young,

939
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: Ben Kiebrick, and Josh Thayne. Paine Lindsay and Donald Albright

940
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 1: are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV alongside producers

941
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: Meredith Steadman and Christina Dana. Original music is by Makeup

942
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: and Vanity Set. In this episode, John Allen Mohammed was

943
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 1: portrayed by actor Jason Williams. Additional voice acting was provided

944
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 1: by Alex Williams, Noel Brown, Jonathan Strickland, Josh Clark, and

945
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: Ben Boland. If you haven't already, be sure to check

946
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 1: out the first two seasons at Lanta Monster and Monster

947
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: the Zodiac Killer. If you have questions or comments, email

948
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: us at monster at ihart media dot com, or you

949
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 1: can call us at one eight three three to eight

950
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: five six six six seven. Thanks for listening.