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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to another new episode of Couch Talks.

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Speaker 1: My name is Kat and I'm your host. Couch Talks

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Speaker 1: is the special bonus episode of You Need Therapy where

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Speaker 1: I answer your questions that you guys send to me

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Speaker 1: and you can send them to me at Catherine at

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Speaker 1: you Need Therapy podcast dot com. Now it's the first episode,

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Speaker 1: the first episode of Couch Talks of two, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's very exciting. We made it another year. We're

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Speaker 1: in year three now of the podcast, and I am just,

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Speaker 1: I guess, excited to be here, not I guess, like

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Speaker 1: I know, I am. I took some time off from

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Speaker 1: the podcast at the end of the year, and we

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Speaker 1: put out some best of episodes, which I think is

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Speaker 1: helpful because I know some of you guys miss some

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Speaker 1: because it's hard to keep up with two episodes of

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Speaker 1: one podcast everything a week. You miss them. So we

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Speaker 1: put out again some of the most popular episodes that

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Speaker 1: we had. So I'm saying that because I haven't recorded

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Speaker 1: a new Couch Talks and this is my guess three

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Speaker 1: weeks now. So happy to be back, grateful to be back,

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Speaker 1: grateful to be in the year three of the podcast.

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Speaker 1: And let's get into it before we do. You guys

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Speaker 1: know this drill. You probably could say it for me

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Speaker 1: at this point, But remember that this is not therapy,

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Speaker 1: and even though I'm answering some questions, I'm not giving

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Speaker 1: you therapy, and I can't do that over a podcast.

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Speaker 1: And also that would just not be right. And we

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Speaker 1: keep everything anonymous, so I won't read the names or

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Speaker 1: say any identifying information about any of the emails that

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Speaker 1: I get. So let's go into this week's question. Hi Cat,

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Speaker 1: my son is a teenager and has been going through

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Speaker 1: a lot in the past three years. My concerns are

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Speaker 1: his thoughts and feelings that he outwardly shares with me.

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Speaker 1: He has very low self worth and has expressed that

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Speaker 1: he does not feel like he is understood by anyone.

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Speaker 1: He constantly talks down about him self, saying he's not

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Speaker 1: good enough and he feels inadequate as a person. Tonight

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Speaker 1: he told me that he just wants to be the

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Speaker 1: best at something and feels angry that he doesn't think

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Speaker 1: he will be. He has been in therapy for the

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Speaker 1: past few years, off and on, and regularly for about

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Speaker 1: a year agoing every other week now. I told him

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Speaker 1: he needs to stop being so hard himself, because no

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Speaker 1: one is perfect and it's all relative. I asked him

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Speaker 1: if he talks about it to his therapist, and he

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Speaker 1: said yes. What I was surprised by it was that

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Speaker 1: he said his therapist told him he would never be

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Speaker 1: the best at anything and he needs to just come

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Speaker 1: to terms with that. Maybe this is true, but is

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Speaker 1: it time to find another therapist? This is the fourth one?

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Speaker 1: Is he just being brutally honest? Is this a technique

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Speaker 1: to get him to think about what that means? I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure, but all I do know is he feels

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Speaker 1: worse now and is considering quitting therapy because he said

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Speaker 1: no one understands him. So what's the point. I'm just

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Speaker 1: a concerned mom here trying to get your advice. Do

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Speaker 1: I encourage him to continue with his current therapist? Do

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Speaker 1: I encourage him to find a new one or let

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Speaker 1: him decide if he doesn't want to proceed. Any advice

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Speaker 1: would be truly appreciated. Okay, So my heart goes out

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Speaker 1: to you and your son, because feeling this way as

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Speaker 1: a human being is very hard and painful. In watching

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Speaker 1: someone that you can't like take away their pain and frustration,

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Speaker 1: watching something that you love feel this way is also

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Speaker 1: also really tough. So again, my heart goes out to you,

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Speaker 1: and I'm glad you emailed me. And I'm also glad

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Speaker 1: that your son's even going to therapy in the first place,

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Speaker 1: because there is some attempt to get some help in that. Now.

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Speaker 1: I can't speak for your son's therapist. I don't really

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Speaker 1: know what he meant. It could be a multitude of things.

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Speaker 1: But what I can say is how I would interpret

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Speaker 1: what he said or what your son said he said.

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Speaker 1: And also I think there's something to be said about

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Speaker 1: building rapport with a client before you make certain comments.

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Speaker 1: For example, I don't know if I've ever told the

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Speaker 1: story on the podcast before, but when I first started,

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Speaker 1: I think this was one of my first clients. Um.

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Speaker 1: When I first started, I had a client at the

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Speaker 1: treatment center that I worked at, and she came in

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Speaker 1: and she didn't really want to be there. Um, but

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Speaker 1: it was like the first time that I met her.

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Speaker 1: I think I was doing like her intake and she

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Speaker 1: was telling me a little about her family and her

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Speaker 1: siblings and her sibling. I think she had won sibling

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Speaker 1: and he was very very very high achieving, and she

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Speaker 1: was in treatment for needing disorder and possibly some substance abuse,

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Speaker 1: and I said a comment like, Wow, that must be

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Speaker 1: really tough that your brother is at this elite school

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Speaker 1: getting a double major and you're in rehab. Even just

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Speaker 1: me saying that, now, I just cringed a little bit

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Speaker 1: because I know what I meant and was trying to

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Speaker 1: be empathetic. But the way I said it was harsh

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Speaker 1: and could have worked with a client that I had

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Speaker 1: a rapport with, but this person didn't really know me,

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Speaker 1: so to her she heard just something very mean, like

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Speaker 1: me saying like, yeah, that sucks your brother's this and

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Speaker 1: you're that. I just didn't need to say that at

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Speaker 1: that time. Um, the way I said it, and I

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Speaker 1: have talked about this of like the three questions that

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Speaker 1: I asked myself before I say things to certain people,

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Speaker 1: and it's does this need to be said? Does this

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Speaker 1: need to be said by me? And does this need

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Speaker 1: to be said right now? And sometimes that last one

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Speaker 1: does this need to be said right now? Is like

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Speaker 1: the kicker of I could have said that to her,

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Speaker 1: but like maybe a week end to our relationship, I would.

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Speaker 1: I was seeing her every day, so our relationships build

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Speaker 1: fast there. But the point I'm trying to make is

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Speaker 1: the comment could have been well meaning, and it could

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Speaker 1: have been actually really effective with some people. But there's

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Speaker 1: something about building rapport and understanding where somebody knows where

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Speaker 1: you're coming from before you say certain things. So my

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Speaker 1: comment wasn't wrong. I still stand by it, but not

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Speaker 1: when I said it in exactly how I said it,

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Speaker 1: and it's my fault. I take responsibility fully for that experience.

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Speaker 1: And good news is we worked through a relationship and yeah,

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Speaker 1: she did some really good work and we were able

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Speaker 1: to repair the damage that I had begun to cause.

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Speaker 1: So going back to the comment, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: he meant. I don't know in what context they were

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Speaker 1: talking or any of that, but I can talk about

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Speaker 1: what I would interpret you said he said. And it

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Speaker 1: is very very very unlikely for any of us to

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Speaker 1: be the absolute best at anything, which is just a

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Speaker 1: basic truth. There will always be a better therapist, there

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Speaker 1: will always be a better podcast host, a better friend,

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Speaker 1: a better runner, a better writer, et cetera. Like anything

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Speaker 1: that I do, most likely there's going to be somebody

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Speaker 1: that's better at it than I am. Now that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean I can't be good, and it doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: I can even be great, but I'm probably not going

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Speaker 1: to be the absolute best, and that's hard to accept

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Speaker 1: sometimes because our society thrives on being elite. Now, part

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Speaker 1: of this has been made worse by a more recent

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Speaker 1: attempt to help people's self esteem in our society, and

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Speaker 1: this push to raise people self esteem, it's been a

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Speaker 1: very well meaning attempt but has kind of like missed

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Speaker 1: the mark because the thing about self esteem is that

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Speaker 1: it is an outwardly focused thing. Like self esteem is

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Speaker 1: created and felt by reinforcement that comes from the outside

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Speaker 1: outside of us. It's very others focused. For example, in school,

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Speaker 1: my self esteem can be raised by getting a high

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Speaker 1: score on a test or ranking on the top of

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Speaker 1: my class, and that idea is like being the best

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Speaker 1: means you're good, right, So if I get the highest

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Speaker 1: screed of my test, it's like, yeah, cat, like you're

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Speaker 1: so smart, you're good. But if I don't get the

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Speaker 1: highest grade on the test, then I'm not being congratulated,

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Speaker 1: and so then I'm not good. And if you're not

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Speaker 1: the best and the best means you're good, then does

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Speaker 1: that mean you're bad? And that's become an issue. The

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Speaker 1: problem with This is not that we're trying to like

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Speaker 1: make people encourage people when they do well at things

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Speaker 1: and when they are are good at things. That's not

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Speaker 1: the issue. The issue is that because we are encouraging

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Speaker 1: the best, encouraging the top, being average has become an insult,

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Speaker 1: Like nobody wants to be average, because nobody congratulates on

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Speaker 1: being average. Like if I was like, congratulations, you were

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Speaker 1: in the middle of everything, people would be like what,

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Speaker 1: very confused? But the truth is most of us are average.

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Speaker 1: Compared to the entirety of our population. There can only

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Speaker 1: actually be one best, so then the rest of everybody

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Speaker 1: is not the best. What this does is it doesn't

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Speaker 1: leave a lot of room to develop self esteem if

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Speaker 1: our self esteem comes from being at the top. So

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Speaker 1: we either start having poor self esteem and we create

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Speaker 1: self loathing inside of ourselves, or we do things to

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Speaker 1: make ourselves feel better, like knocking others down, which is

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Speaker 1: why bullying has become a bigger issue, because I can

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Speaker 1: feel better about me if I can make you feel

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Speaker 1: worse about you, and I can elevate myself. And this

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Speaker 1: phenomenon also explains partly the rise of narcissism as well,

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Speaker 1: which we're not going to get into that. But that's

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Speaker 1: why that has been on the rise, mores, because we've

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Speaker 1: created society that thrives on being at the very very top. Now,

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Speaker 1: this understanding doesn't really solve your problem. It just is

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Speaker 1: my understanding of what may have been meant or how

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Speaker 1: I might explain that, and I might talk with somebody

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Speaker 1: about their struggle of like not being the best at

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Speaker 1: something as like just a normal part of life, like

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Speaker 1: most of us aren't the best at anything, to try

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Speaker 1: to normalize and create some almost camaraderie with the rest

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Speaker 1: of the world and not make somebody feel so less

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Speaker 1: than or mothered, like nobody's like posting on their Instagram

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Speaker 1: I'm average, I got average grades, I got tenth in

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Speaker 1: this race, I got this. We're only posting like the

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Speaker 1: top top top stuff, and so then we don't realize

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Speaker 1: that we're actually like just like most of the people

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Speaker 1: around us, and that's not a bad thing. We don't

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Speaker 1: have to be extremely different to be valuable and worthy

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Speaker 1: and loved and special and to be even congratulated, like

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Speaker 1: you can get congratulated by being the tenth at something anyway,

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Speaker 1: So this doesn't really solve your problem. What you're asking

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Speaker 1: more out is like, what do you do in regards

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Speaker 1: to your son's therapy? Do you encourage him to stay

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Speaker 1: in it? Do you encourage him to go somewhere else?

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Speaker 1: Do you encourage him to take a break. I can't

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Speaker 1: totally answer that. My go to is always to talk

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Speaker 1: about things if the people and or the space that

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Speaker 1: you're in feels safe enough, I would hope that a

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Speaker 1: therapist would be a safe person and that would be

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Speaker 1: a safe environment. And so I might encourage your son

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Speaker 1: to express how he heard the comment, especially because it

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Speaker 1: kind of solidified a belief that he's struggling with it,

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Speaker 1: which is nobody understands me, because I could bet, I

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Speaker 1: really could bet that the issue here isn't that he's

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Speaker 1: not the best at anything. It's more of the other

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Speaker 1: part of like, nobody understands me. I want somebody to

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Speaker 1: sit with me and try to understand and know what

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Speaker 1: it's like to be me in a world where I

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Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm ever going to be the best.

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Speaker 1: I don't want just somebody to tell me like, well,

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Speaker 1: that's just life, So maybe you just need to get

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Speaker 1: over it. Again. That goes back to report and so

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Speaker 1: what your son might be really asking for without or

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Speaker 1: wanting without knowing how to ask for it is I

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Speaker 1: want somebody to sit with me in this and ask

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Speaker 1: me questions and try to understand me, rather than fix

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Speaker 1: my feelings, rather than to make me feel more like

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Speaker 1: everybody else, I want somebody to actually understand what it's

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Speaker 1: like to be me. So there could be a conversation

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Speaker 1: that your son has with your therapist that could be

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Speaker 1: so cool and probably more therapeutic than any other session.

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Speaker 1: It could offer then repair to that relationship, and then

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Speaker 1: some healing and peace, and that that part of the

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Speaker 1: understanding of I just want people to understand me, So

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Speaker 1: I would encourage that if it feels safe. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if this therapist is a safe person. Um, so

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Speaker 1: I can't fully say like, yeah, I go do it

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Speaker 1: because I know nothing about this therapist. I just want

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Speaker 1: to be very careful about that. I also think there's

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Speaker 1: something to be said about our attitudes towards therapy as well.

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Speaker 1: Maybe at this point your son doesn't really believe that

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Speaker 1: therapy can help, and maybe he's just kind of down

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Speaker 1: on it, and maybe he does need a break. If

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Speaker 1: he doesn't actually believe that therapy can help, And if

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Speaker 1: he doesn't actually believe that his therapist wants to understand

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Speaker 1: him or that his therapist can help him, then most

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Speaker 1: likely it won't help and he may need a break.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if he enjoys going or at one

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Speaker 1: point enjoyed going, or any of that those details. So

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Speaker 1: I think this is a deeper conversation for you to

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Speaker 1: have with him, and I totally encourage you to ask

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Speaker 1: him some questions around this. Ask him some questions about like,

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Speaker 1: what are you getting out of therapy right now? How

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Speaker 1: do you feel when you go there? Are there things

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Speaker 1: you feel like you can't say? Are the things that

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Speaker 1: you feel you can't like? What has been helpful? What

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Speaker 1: has not been helpful? What does it feel like when

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Speaker 1: you leave? Like if you take that that sentence, that

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Speaker 1: one idea, I don't feel like anyone understands me, and

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Speaker 1: you take that and you run with that, That's where

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Speaker 1: we're going here. Rather than to solve his problem of

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Speaker 1: what he should do about therapy, it's like, well, what

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Speaker 1: if you become the person that really attempts to understand

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Speaker 1: him so he feels like people can and will do that,

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Speaker 1: Because man, that is a hard I guess belief to

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Speaker 1: sit with nobody ever is going to get me. So

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Speaker 1: maybe all he needs to hear from you is I

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Speaker 1: don't think I'm ever going to know fully what it's

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Speaker 1: like to be you, because I'm not, but I want

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Speaker 1: to get as close to that as I can. So

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Speaker 1: can you tell me what it's like to be you?

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me what it's like to be you

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Speaker 1: when you go to therapy? Can you tell me what

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Speaker 1: it's like to be you when you show up at school,

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Speaker 1: when you show up with your friends, when you're at home,

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Speaker 1: when you're alone, when you're with with people, and just

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Speaker 1: try to get some information because I go I go

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Speaker 1: back to this quote all the time that I got

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Speaker 1: from a mentor back in high school, and it's that

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Speaker 1: people want to tell their story. They just want to

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Speaker 1: be asked. They just need to be asked first. And

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Speaker 1: so people want to talk. People want to talk about

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Speaker 1: themselves more than I think a lot of us lead on.

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Speaker 1: But we're waiting for that invitation. And so maybe that's

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Speaker 1: what your son is looking for. We're waiting for And

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Speaker 1: going back to what I was saying earlier, therapy doesn't

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Speaker 1: usually help when people don't want to participate so maybe

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Speaker 1: you get some information from him around that, and then

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Speaker 1: you let him make the decision himself and you put

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Speaker 1: that in his hands rather than you take full responsibility

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Speaker 1: for it. I hope that was helpful, and I hope

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Speaker 1: that kind of leads you into a direction that feels

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Speaker 1: okay and right for you to go with what you're

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Speaker 1: um shrugging with with your son. And I hope that

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Speaker 1: your son finds some healing as well, because I, like

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Speaker 1: I said in the beginning, like this is tough stuff

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Speaker 1: to sit in, which most of the stuff you guys

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Speaker 1: send in is tough stuff. And I'm so grateful that

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Speaker 1: you feel safe enough to send that to me and

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Speaker 1: to get feedback from me. I appreciate every email I

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Speaker 1: get of like wow, this person doesn't fully know me,

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Speaker 1: but they do trust me enough just from hearing my

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Speaker 1: voice over and over on a podcast. So thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. If you guys have any other questions that

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Speaker 1: you want to send to me, you can send them

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Speaker 1: to Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast. You can follow

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Speaker 1: me on Instagram, um, you can follow the podcast on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: Both of those handles are at cat dot de fata

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Speaker 1: and then at you Need Therapy podcast and we are

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Speaker 1: back in it. We're in Monday was a brand new

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Speaker 1: episode and next month it will be another one and

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Speaker 1: we are back in it, ready to just take on

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Speaker 1: the year see what it has for us. So thanks

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Speaker 1: for being here, thanks for listening, thanks for sending in

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Speaker 1: your thoughts, and I will talk to you guys on Monday.