1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,680
Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

2
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:03,800
Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

3
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,160
Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abuse of power you'd like

4
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,080
Speaker 1: to share, leave us a message on our hotline number

5
00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,960
Speaker 1: at five one three nine hundred two nine five five,

6
00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:11,560
Speaker 1: or she.

7
00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:13,880
Speaker 2: Had us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

8
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:15,080
Speaker 2: dot com.

9
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,360
Speaker 3: Trust me, trust for trust Me.

10
00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,479
Speaker 4: I'm like a swat person. I've never lived to you,

11
00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:23,400
Speaker 4: and we never have a live.

12
00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,640
Speaker 1: If you think that one person has all the answers, don't.

13
00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:28,800
Speaker 3: Welcome to trust Me.

14
00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,760
Speaker 1: The podcast about cults extreme belief in the abuse of

15
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,120
Speaker 1: power from two suppressive people who've actually experienced it.

16
00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,279
Speaker 3: I am Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth. Today our

17
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 3: guest is April Snow.

18
00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,360
Speaker 1: She is a former member of Scientology and former member

19
00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,040
Speaker 1: of the cea organization within the Church.

20
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:45,200
Speaker 3: Scientology.

21
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,680
Speaker 1: Folks, we did it finally, at long last, we win,

22
00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,920
Speaker 1: We win. I guess she's going to talk to us

23
00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,640
Speaker 1: about growing up in Scientology, el Ron Hubbard's techniques, what

24
00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,480
Speaker 1: it was like living in what is now the Celebrity

25
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,200
Speaker 1: Center in Laws Angeles, and joining the infamous Sea Org

26
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:03,240
Speaker 1: at age fifteen.

27
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,480
Speaker 2: They also get into the rules she was forced to follow,

28
00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,679
Speaker 2: the rules she decided to break, how she got out,

29
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,800
Speaker 2: and what it was like when her family and friends

30
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:12,959
Speaker 2: disconnected from her.

31
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,720
Speaker 1: Yes, So as a quick warning of the discussion that

32
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,319
Speaker 1: is about to happen with our cultis thing, there will

33
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,960
Speaker 1: be some talk of suicide. So just giving you a

34
00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,480
Speaker 1: heads up for that. Okay, here we go, Megan, won't

35
00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,360
Speaker 1: you tell me the cultiest thing this happened to you

36
00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 1: this week?

37
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,399
Speaker 2: Well, nothing has happened to me this week, So I

38
00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,600
Speaker 2: am using a news story we discussed a couple months

39
00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:40,440
Speaker 2: ago about a father of Sarah Lawrence student who got

40
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,560
Speaker 2: a group of his daughter's girlfriends involved in like a

41
00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,320
Speaker 2: very weird, to put it plainly, cults where he was

42
00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,320
Speaker 2: the leader. He was an ex policeman, he was very charismatic.

43
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 2: He got them all involved in this weird world that

44
00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 2: he created, which is also so strange because his daughter

45
00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,280
Speaker 2: was there, and I think he got a few of

46
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 2: them into prostitution, and it's just it's all very awful

47
00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 2: and layered. But there's information coming out of his trial

48
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,280
Speaker 2: that a lot of those girls tried to commit suicide,

49
00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:22,400
Speaker 2: and it was often after they had spoken to him

50
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,520
Speaker 2: about those tendencies. They would be, you know, opening up

51
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,400
Speaker 2: to him, and then he would come visit them after

52
00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,520
Speaker 2: they did that and be like very involved in the recovery.

53
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,840
Speaker 2: The treatment team said that he would insert himself into

54
00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,320
Speaker 2: their recovery, so fucking wild.

55
00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:45,080
Speaker 1: He portrayed himself as a mental health expert and was

56
00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,840
Speaker 1: like diagnosing these poor girls.

57
00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 2: All of them with borderline of course.

58
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,799
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, It said many of the victims attempted suicide,

59
00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:59,200
Speaker 1: not like one, not two, it's as many and were hospitalized. Apparently,

60
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,880
Speaker 1: it says the defendant, Lawrence Ray. This man was often

61
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,560
Speaker 1: present prior to the victim's attempts and discussed the victim's

62
00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,480
Speaker 1: vulnerability to suicide with both the victims and other individuals,

63
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,600
Speaker 1: so essentially planting these ideas in their head while he's

64
00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:18,440
Speaker 1: sex trafficking these girls and taking their money. Like, first

65
00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,640
Speaker 1: of all, who wouldn't be suicidal in that situation? But

66
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,040
Speaker 1: second of all, if somebody's telling you, who you think

67
00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,360
Speaker 1: is like this expert, this like figure of authority, that

68
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,079
Speaker 1: you're vulnerable to suicide, like of course, that's going to

69
00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,120
Speaker 1: have an impact on these poor women. I'm so fucking

70
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,040
Speaker 1: glad that this guy is going to trial It.

71
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 2: Also said that he was like the Brooklyn Chief of

72
00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,920
Speaker 2: Police best man at his wedding, so he definitely had

73
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:43,680
Speaker 2: a lot of contacts and a lot of pull. And

74
00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 2: I can see where college girls would be like because

75
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,680
Speaker 2: he would also say like I'm a spy, I'm this

76
00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:53,040
Speaker 2: like crazy cool James Bond essentially.

77
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 3: So it's just fucked up.

78
00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 1: Oh, it's so fucked up, man, so fucked up. I

79
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,240
Speaker 1: just wonder about the daughter too. I'm sure she was

80
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,600
Speaker 1: a victim as well, Like there's no way she was no,

81
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 1: not no, yeah, totally poor girl, poor all of them.

82
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,520
Speaker 1: Well that's a nice and heavy one that we have there. Thanks,

83
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,320
Speaker 1: What about you, I'm trying to decide between two different ones?

84
00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,200
Speaker 2: Oh, we get it low like you had such a

85
00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:19,680
Speaker 2: busy week, you had two.

86
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,160
Speaker 1: I just live a Colti life, Megan. What can I say?

87
00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,680
Speaker 1: This is sort of embarrassing, and I probably shouldn't talk

88
00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,440
Speaker 1: about it because I just showed my stepmom or podcast

89
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,440
Speaker 1: yesterday and she's going to start listening to it now. So, Wendy,

90
00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,720
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that you have to hear this. I'm

91
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,640
Speaker 1: shooting a music video on Saturday for myself. I'm directing,

92
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,560
Speaker 1: and it's for my own song, and it's very elaborate

93
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 1: and difficult and challenging. But one of the things that

94
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:48,840
Speaker 1: we're doing in it is I'm going to be tied.

95
00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,159
Speaker 3: Up in ropes in the air.

96
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,360
Speaker 1: WHOA and I did like a practice session.

97
00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,039
Speaker 3: I don't know if I can say this.

98
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,240
Speaker 1: I did a practice session with the like rope artist.

99
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,719
Speaker 1: It's called it's Shabari. It's like being tied up in

100
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,800
Speaker 1: this very beautiful like rope art way and then suspended

101
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,159
Speaker 1: in the air. And then once you're in the air,

102
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 1: like you're essentially giving up your power entirely to whoever

103
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 1: has tied you up because you can't move, like you can't.

104
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:16,440
Speaker 3: Get out of there.

105
00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,800
Speaker 1: It was such an interesting feeling to just completely be

106
00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,440
Speaker 1: under somebody's control like that. I mean, I honestly, I

107
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,080
Speaker 1: really liked it. I liked being like suspended as difficult

108
00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,200
Speaker 1: on your body, like it's you know, because it's you're

109
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 1: just being held up by rope and these points of

110
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:37,120
Speaker 1: your body. But the process of tying was like really interesting.

111
00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:38,160
Speaker 3: I like that.

112
00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,919
Speaker 1: There's something about that sort of power dynamic that I

113
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:41,479
Speaker 1: really liked.

114
00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,200
Speaker 3: But I will say I feel.

115
00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,600
Speaker 1: Like consent has come up so much this week, it's

116
00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,040
Speaker 1: just the theme of the week.

117
00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,640
Speaker 3: What made it enjoyable was that.

118
00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,440
Speaker 1: The person who tied me up, this guy is great,

119
00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,159
Speaker 1: highly recommend it if anyone wants to shabari DM me

120
00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,919
Speaker 1: and I'll give you with info. He was so communicative

121
00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,839
Speaker 1: about everything he was going to do, how it was

122
00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,960
Speaker 1: going to feel. He gave me a full explanation in advance.

123
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to touch you here, I'm going to touch

124
00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,360
Speaker 1: you here, I'm going to touch you here.

125
00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,320
Speaker 3: Is that okay? Are you comfortable with this? And then yeah?

126
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:17,920
Speaker 1: And then while I'm in the areas like how are

127
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,480
Speaker 1: you feeling? Are you feeling this particular sensation? Are you okay?

128
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,920
Speaker 1: Are you comfortable? So it's like there is this power

129
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,760
Speaker 1: play thing happening where I he has power over me,

130
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,760
Speaker 1: but he makes me feel so safe within that power,

131
00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:38,160
Speaker 1: Like the boundaries are so so clear that I was like, oh, I.

132
00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:38,920
Speaker 3: Could get into that.

133
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,440
Speaker 1: I could get into like, you know, little like kind

134
00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,560
Speaker 1: of bdsm ME stuff. If it's somebody who's like genuinely

135
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,680
Speaker 1: so caring about sent and about how you're feeling, you

136
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,440
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Because I feel like generally what

137
00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,760
Speaker 1: happens is men are like they're just gonna like choke you.

138
00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:56,839
Speaker 3: And oh totally yeah.

139
00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,640
Speaker 2: They're like, I'm into BDSM. I just choke you really

140
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,080
Speaker 2: hard and tie you up in a shitty knot with

141
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 2: your hands that's off.

142
00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,000
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, cut off your blood circulation and potentially cause

143
00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,880
Speaker 1: nerve damage. Tight yeah yeah, So I don't know. That's

144
00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 1: something something I've been thinking about a lot, and a

145
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,840
Speaker 1: couple of my girlfriends have had some like questionable consent

146
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,160
Speaker 1: situations these past two weeks, and I think this rope

147
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 1: man has really opened my eyes to what it's supposed

148
00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:24,880
Speaker 1: to look like.

149
00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:26,840
Speaker 3: This is what it's supposed to look like.

150
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:31,760
Speaker 1: It's supposed to involve a clear discussion, Affirmative consent, have

151
00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,680
Speaker 1: a very set way to stop things when things need

152
00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,880
Speaker 1: to stop, you know. And this was all just rehearsal

153
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,200
Speaker 1: for my music video. It's not like we were doing

154
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,040
Speaker 1: it for sexual reasons. But if we were, yeah, well

155
00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:43,400
Speaker 1: what it's a great it's his deal?

156
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,240
Speaker 2: Is he single? Is he ready to mingle?

157
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,800
Speaker 1: I didn't ask because that's not our relationship. Oh okay, fine,

158
00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,720
Speaker 1: boundaries purely professional.

159
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 3: No, but it was really cool. It was really cool.

160
00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so now I think my goal is to

161
00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,320
Speaker 1: find someone who wants to play and wants to do

162
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,680
Speaker 1: you know, to toe the line of like, I'm sure

163
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 1: they'll do it in a way that's like so loving and.

164
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:09,080
Speaker 2: That will not be hard for you.

165
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:15,280
Speaker 3: I think you're gonna find Megan. You would be so surprised, man,

166
00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,720
Speaker 3: step it up. I've been single out here for a minute.

167
00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,200
Speaker 1: You'd be surprised how few of them actually have a

168
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,760
Speaker 1: firm understanding of what enthusiastic consent is, which is why

169
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,880
Speaker 1: I just tweeted on my Twitter a thread about how

170
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:30,600
Speaker 1: not to rape someone.

171
00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,000
Speaker 3: So feel free to check that out. Oh I love that.

172
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:34,520
Speaker 3: I love that.

173
00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, somebody needs to lovingly come tilo up like we

174
00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:38,839
Speaker 2: need that.

175
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,960
Speaker 1: I should be clear also that it's not just about

176
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,120
Speaker 1: the consent. He also fully understands the physical risks and

177
00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 1: knows that you cannot be up for longer than ten

178
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,040
Speaker 1: minutes and know, you know, like these are not things

179
00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:49,880
Speaker 1: that you should just be doing, Willy Nelly.

180
00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:56,959
Speaker 3: To the kids at home, No, you should not. Anyway,

181
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:57,760
Speaker 3: that's my thing.

182
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,120
Speaker 1: Before we begin this interview, I want to just like

183
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,280
Speaker 1: discuss l Ron Hubbard and like the sort of origins

184
00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,880
Speaker 1: of scientology a little bit. Not that I have like

185
00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,000
Speaker 1: anything prepared, but for people who aren't really that familiar

186
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,560
Speaker 1: with Scientology, because not everyone has watched Going Clear, you know,

187
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,439
Speaker 1: not everyone has watched Lea Remenie's show.

188
00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:15,880
Speaker 4: Sure.

189
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 1: L Ron Hubbard was a science fiction and fantasy author

190
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,319
Speaker 1: who founded the Church of Scientology, which was I believe

191
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,280
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty four. This guy, he was an officer

192
00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 1: in the navy. He was into ships. He wrote a

193
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 1: lot of fiction, and he decided to also create this

194
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:41,000
Speaker 1: religion called Scientology, which was a blend of as we

195
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,240
Speaker 1: talk about in this episode, some basic Buddhist concepts, some

196
00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,439
Speaker 1: psychology concepts, which is funny because they like forbid psychology,

197
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,439
Speaker 1: but they totally stuff from psychology.

198
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,040
Speaker 3: There's a lot more to this religion. You know.

199
00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,800
Speaker 1: There have been some very abusive practices. There's one leader

200
00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,520
Speaker 1: in particular, l Ron Hubbard is now dead, but David

201
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,280
Speaker 1: Miskeviage Misciven, Misscavage. You know, they like to kind of

202
00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,080
Speaker 1: hunt people down who've spoken out about them and sort

203
00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,000
Speaker 1: of go after them legally and follow them around and

204
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,760
Speaker 1: intimidate them. There's a long history of this happening to

205
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:13,480
Speaker 1: a lot of people. There have been a lot of

206
00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,120
Speaker 1: abusive practices with people in the Sea Org, which is

207
00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:17,520
Speaker 1: what April Today was in.

208
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:19,800
Speaker 3: If you want to know more, go do some research.

209
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,720
Speaker 1: This is not the all informative episode, but I'm sure

210
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,200
Speaker 1: we'll have another former member on later on who can

211
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,080
Speaker 1: dive in deeper. But I just wanted to get people

212
00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,080
Speaker 1: the basics just so they have a little bit of context,

213
00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:31,480
Speaker 1: so we didn't talk about it too much.

214
00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:32,080
Speaker 2: Brilliant.

215
00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,000
Speaker 3: I love it all. Right, let's talk to April Now.

216
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:47,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, welcome April Snow to the podcast.

217
00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:49,480
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for coming on.

218
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,679
Speaker 1: Since you are our first former scientologist, can you outline

219
00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,840
Speaker 1: the like just basic beliefs so if someone isn't familiar

220
00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,960
Speaker 1: they understand what we're dealing with here.

221
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, the basic belief system of scientology. So as far

222
00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,320
Speaker 4: as the spiritual piece goes, it is that you are

223
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,440
Speaker 4: an eternal being. You've lived before this life, that this

224
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,319
Speaker 4: is just like one of many lifetimes, and that you're

225
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,120
Speaker 4: going to live after this lifetime and a different body.

226
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,480
Speaker 4: And Aaron Hubbard believed that you bring sort of your baggage,

227
00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,160
Speaker 4: so to speak, from your past lives into your present life,

228
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,199
Speaker 4: and that that can affect the way that you act

229
00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,920
Speaker 4: and react and with the world around you. So Dianetics,

230
00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,280
Speaker 4: which is the sort of like the book that started

231
00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,680
Speaker 4: everything back in the fifties that Aaron Hubbard wrote was

232
00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,840
Speaker 4: a bestseller and what got my parents have done? Like

233
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,679
Speaker 4: a lot of other people's parents that I know hooked.

234
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,960
Speaker 4: That book essentially talks about your brain being split into

235
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:51,559
Speaker 4: two different parts, and Aaron Hubbard says that on one side,

236
00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,360
Speaker 4: you have your analytical mind that sort of analyzes things

237
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,680
Speaker 4: properly right as they are, you know, sees blue as blue,

238
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,840
Speaker 4: and elephants as events and whatever, you know, the world

239
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 4: around you the way that it needs. Then you have

240
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,280
Speaker 4: another part of your mind called the reactive mind, and

241
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,520
Speaker 4: that the reactive mind holds on to like your memories

242
00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,080
Speaker 4: that have to do with your loss or grief or pain,

243
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,000
Speaker 4: and so much of the time you're sort of coming

244
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,079
Speaker 4: from the reactive mind, right, So, like if, for instance,

245
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:29,280
Speaker 4: you hurt yourself, and maybe when you hurt yourself, you

246
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,000
Speaker 4: hurt your foot, and that day there was like a

247
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,000
Speaker 4: fire engine going by, and so you heard like this

248
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,280
Speaker 4: fire engine in the background, and then every time you

249
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,880
Speaker 4: hear that fire engine, like you're kind of returned to

250
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,440
Speaker 4: this moment of pain and hurting your foot, maybe your

251
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,840
Speaker 4: foot hurts or you feel something else that was going

252
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:46,679
Speaker 4: on at the time.

253
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,560
Speaker 1: Which is just stolen from psychology. That idea, like that's

254
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,000
Speaker 1: not anything unusual or unique.

255
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,520
Speaker 4: Dynamics is similar to like cognitive behavioral type of therapy.

256
00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,959
Speaker 4: It's like what you know, what's happened in your past

257
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,600
Speaker 4: and affect your future. A lot of the things from

258
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,960
Speaker 4: our childhood might play a part in how we are

259
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 4: and who we are, our relationships, you know, how we

260
00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,960
Speaker 4: react to people, places, and things. So I mean, in

261
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,760
Speaker 4: a nutshell, the idea of dianetics and auditing was to

262
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,600
Speaker 4: erase your reactive mind and to get rid of that part.

263
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,000
Speaker 4: And I'm sure you've heard like the word clear, maybe

264
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,480
Speaker 4: going clear movie or whatever. Clear is the state of

265
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,720
Speaker 4: having no more reactive mind. And so that's what a

266
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,319
Speaker 4: lot of scientologists are doing. And what the Sea organization

267
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,720
Speaker 4: that that clergy of scientology is doing is their job

268
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,160
Speaker 4: is to clear the planet ah.

269
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,320
Speaker 2: Which is so interesting because I feel like that's what

270
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:45,520
Speaker 2: psychedelics do.

271
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,320
Speaker 4: That's so interesting. Have you had an ayahuasca experience, because

272
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,319
Speaker 4: I've heard my every like friend who's done Ahuaska or

273
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 4: had like one of these big ceremonies or whatever. It's like,

274
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,360
Speaker 4: oh my God, like life altering shit happen. Yeah.

275
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:10,359
Speaker 2: I haven't done ayahuasca, but acid and mushrooms have absolutely

276
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,640
Speaker 2: evolved my consciousness in a way that I would not

277
00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,000
Speaker 2: be able to do on my own.

278
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 3: For sure.

279
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,560
Speaker 1: I really want to do ayahuasca. So if anyone wants

280
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,440
Speaker 1: to do ayahuasca with me, let's do it.

281
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:28,520
Speaker 4: Your ceremony saying my course on my sobriety. I'll be

282
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,920
Speaker 4: there for you, though, Oh thank you.

283
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,480
Speaker 3: The whole thing.

284
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:39,480
Speaker 4: Very projectile sort of a way.

285
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,680
Speaker 2: Do you ever have any moments where you're like, oh, fuck,

286
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 2: scientology is real?

287
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,520
Speaker 4: No? Yeah, zero, Yeah, I'm not there.

288
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:51,480
Speaker 3: That's great.

289
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,480
Speaker 4: I've been very far stepped out of that for a

290
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,480
Speaker 4: really long time. For me. It's been years and years.

291
00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 4: I didn't get a sort of excommunicated, if you will,

292
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,400
Speaker 4: until about three years ago. And that's the whole story

293
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:07,600
Speaker 4: for a different day, guys.

294
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 1: But I actually do want to ask you about that,

295
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 1: and really quick if you don't mind. But before we do,

296
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,360
Speaker 1: I just I also just want to point out that

297
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:19,040
Speaker 1: the idea of like quieting your reactive mind is also

298
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:24,080
Speaker 1: just Buddhism. He's just like taking these like basic components

299
00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:29,480
Speaker 1: of other things repackaging them as some like crazy scientific technology.

300
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 1: And I can see why that would be appealing to

301
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 1: people who maybe don't have an understanding that these ideas

302
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 1: have existed for a long time.

303
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:43,240
Speaker 4: I believe he thought he was Buddha reincarnated, so okay, okay,

304
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:49,440
Speaker 4: that helps. Really, Yeah, there's this whole poem about it,

305
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:54,320
Speaker 4: like this reincarnation of Sidara Gutama or whatever, which is

306
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,640
Speaker 4: I believe the name of the Buddha and uh, the

307
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 4: red hair, and I mean, and it's you have to

308
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,080
Speaker 4: sort of draw your own conclusion, but yeah, that's where

309
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:04,960
Speaker 4: it's headed.

310
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to draw the narcissistic conclusion.

311
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:09,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd have to look it up because

312
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,080
Speaker 4: it's been so long since I've read it. But I

313
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,320
Speaker 4: when you were talking about Buddhism, I'm like, I remember

314
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,280
Speaker 4: there being this poem like that. I'm pretty sure he

315
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:19,160
Speaker 4: thought he was. Yeah.

316
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,960
Speaker 1: I mean, he read a lot of stuff and he

317
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,640
Speaker 1: wrote a lot of stuff.

318
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, that's what a good writer does,

319
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,240
Speaker 3: That's what a good fiction writer does.

320
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,160
Speaker 4: They take out great writer. He was a great writer.

321
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,880
Speaker 4: And honestly, you know, I'll say, well, first of all,

322
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,720
Speaker 4: to get that many people to sort of follow your

323
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,320
Speaker 4: teachings and be a New York Times bestseller. You're obviously

324
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,760
Speaker 4: no slouch as a writer. And prior to you know,

325
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 4: the religious writings, the spiritual writings, he was a fiction writer.

326
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 4: And his fiction is pretty freaking good. Like there's some

327
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,480
Speaker 4: really interesting books. He wrote a book called with a

328
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 4: Kofear I think, like a horror story that I remember

329
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,600
Speaker 4: reading when I was younger that was fantastic, and my

330
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,920
Speaker 4: dad was super into his like science fiction stuff. And

331
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,720
Speaker 4: there was a book like they adapted from one of

332
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:11,000
Speaker 4: his screenplays called Ipatrito that I loved that it was

333
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,840
Speaker 4: after he passed. The book was you know, adapted from

334
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,160
Speaker 4: a screenplay, but it was funny. It was about like

335
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,200
Speaker 4: some doppelganger running around the world, like doing things as

336
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:25,439
Speaker 4: this dude in under his like alias, and just like whatever,

337
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,720
Speaker 4: this is a funny book. He's a good writer and

338
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,399
Speaker 4: he was a doer like he It's impressive to me

339
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,879
Speaker 4: that somebody can write volumes like he did. Like the

340
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,560
Speaker 4: amount of volumes that he wrote is I mean, just

341
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 4: one day if you have the opportunity or today, like

342
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,040
Speaker 4: just google like the Scientology library, scientology books. There are

343
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:55,679
Speaker 4: hundreds of books, like it's not one book, it's volumes

344
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,240
Speaker 4: and volumes and volumes of books, and then policy letters

345
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,960
Speaker 4: you know, after that, like how to run your organization.

346
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,639
Speaker 4: There's so many different books, the basic stuff and then

347
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,360
Speaker 4: the more complicated stuff. Then there's recordings of him speaking

348
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 4: that are volumes of that. I mean, the dude was

349
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:15,600
Speaker 4: a machine.

350
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,280
Speaker 1: I wish I could be so prolific for real. I

351
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,280
Speaker 1: envy that ability, honestly, Yeah.

352
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,560
Speaker 4: I mean absolutely, Like I was talking to one of

353
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 4: my best friends this morning who also grew up in

354
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,600
Speaker 4: this and she doesn't practice scientology anymore, but she feels

355
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,479
Speaker 4: insulted by like people, you know, talking down at it.

356
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 4: And although she always acknowledges.

357
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,800
Speaker 3: My experience too, so it's a very.

358
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,719
Speaker 4: Very good human being and she doesn't believe this stuff anymore,

359
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 4: but like her mom believed it wholeheartedly, you know. And

360
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,840
Speaker 4: my thought process with it is, I feel very hurt

361
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 4: by the organization. They have encouraged my family not to

362
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,520
Speaker 4: talk to me. They encourage my dad not to talk

363
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 4: to me for the last year of his life. My

364
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,919
Speaker 4: very closest friends growing up, many of them, you know,

365
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 4: and that's on them too, not just on the organization,

366
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,120
Speaker 4: but it didn't come from their head, you know. So

367
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,920
Speaker 4: I feel abused by the organization. Shanny is abusive, it's traumatic.

368
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,199
Speaker 4: It's not something that I wish upon anybody else. And

369
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 4: so like that piece is very real.

370
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,440
Speaker 3: I read a little bit about your story on the internet.

371
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:24,879
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've heard of it.

372
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 1: It's this thing you grew up in scientology. Correct, your

373
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 1: parents are scientologists? Yeah, So how did they come to

374
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:30,920
Speaker 1: join the church?

375
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,560
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know their entire stories, but they

376
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 4: met at the Church of Scientology before I was born.

377
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 4: My mother, she didn't really grow up with a lot

378
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,840
Speaker 4: of religion or anything like that. Her father was Jewish,

379
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,919
Speaker 4: her mother kind of dabbled in Catholicism on occasion. You know,

380
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 4: she wasn't raised any specific way. She found scientology first,

381
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 4: from my understanding, when she was fifteen years old and

382
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 4: a friend of hers at school wanted to do some

383
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,680
Speaker 4: etics processing on her, which is like the first book

384
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 4: el Run Hubbard wrote, And it's kind of similar to

385
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 4: like a CBT type of therapy, or you know, you're

386
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 4: talking a lot, delving into your experiences and talking through

387
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 4: things that have happened to you. So I think that

388
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,919
Speaker 4: was her first sort of experience with it, but she

389
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 4: didn't really get more heavily involved until later on, I

390
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,200
Speaker 4: want to say, in her twenties. And then my dad.

391
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 4: He grew up in Jersey. His life experience is really interesting,

392
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,160
Speaker 4: and he didn't really have parents. His mother died when

393
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 4: he was very young, like a toddler, and his dad

394
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 4: was a merchant marine and not very emotionally available or

395
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 4: physically there. So he ended up getting adopted by family,

396
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 4: and his brother and him have very different accounts of

397
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 4: how that felt. But he ran away from home or

398
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:51,160
Speaker 4: left home very young, around like fifteen, and he didn't

399
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 4: find scientology I don't think until his twenties either, maybe

400
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,160
Speaker 4: even later, late twenties or early thirties. I'm not totally sure.

401
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 4: It was like an awake in for him, and he

402
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 4: ended up I think leaving the wife he was with them,

403
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 4: and I have a half brother or had a half

404
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 4: brother he passed. But from that marriage that my father had,

405
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 4: and I think scientology was sort of like one of

406
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 4: the reasons why a lot of his relationships unfortunately did

407
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,880
Speaker 4: not continue, because he sort of got on a soapbox

408
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 4: from what I've heard.

409
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, okay, so you grow up a little child scientologist.

410
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 3: What'd you do every day? What was his life?

411
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 4: Like? I mean, you know, you don't know any different.

412
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 4: I'm sure you guys have the same experience in your life.

413
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 4: It's like there are things I can look back on

414
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 4: and be very puzzled by or like you know, see

415
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 4: as like even abusive or traumatic. But when you're going

416
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 4: through something, I kind of think, for the most part,

417
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 4: it's your life, you know. Like if you don't know,

418
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 4: there's this quote that I heard years ago, and forgive

419
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 4: me if I totally butcher it, but it was James

420
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 4: Brown's daughter wrote a memoir and her father was extremely

421
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 4: abusive and extremely abusive to her mother. In particular, there's

422
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 4: this piece where she's talking about like the first time

423
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 4: she saw him hit her mom, She's just a little

424
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 4: girl and was like hiding and she ran out and

425
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 4: she saw like this face of rage, you know, and

426
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 4: thought it was going to turn on her I think

427
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 4: really quick. Soon after that they moved out of her

428
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,640
Speaker 4: father's home, but eventually, as she got older, she ended

429
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 4: up marrying an abusive man. And she said, people ask me, like,

430
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 4: how could you get into something like that? And didn't

431
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 4: you see the elephant in the room, and her response is, yeah,

432
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 4: I saw the elephant in the room, but I didn't

433
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 4: realize it was an elephant, like it has just always

434
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 4: been there. I thought it was part of the furniture.

435
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 4: You know. Wow, that perspective is so true. It's like

436
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 4: we just sort of accept the things around us as

437
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 4: normal when we're children, especially because we don't know any different.

438
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 4: So I didn't know any different. I mean, it was

439
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 4: me three full biological brothers. I did have the half

440
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 4: brother I mentioned, he didn't live with us. We moved

441
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 4: from New York to California when I was very young,

442
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 4: four or five years old. We actually moved into the

443
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 4: Manor Hotel, which is now called the Celebrity Center. I'm

444
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 4: sure if you're in La you've seen that big building

445
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 4: over near Birds in Gelson's Market.

446
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 2: I could move into it. When I first moved Tolle,

447
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 2: I thought it was like an apartment building, and I

448
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 2: was like, how do I get in?

449
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 4: There's that apartment building kind of near there if you like,

450
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 4: drive toward the one to one on the left hand

451
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 4: side Hollywood Towers. And it always reminded me of it,

452
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 4: and in fact, when I was there, was like a

453
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 4: leven so I took a improv class with a woman

454
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 4: who was also a scientologist who lived in that building,

455
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 4: and I thought that building was so it is stunning.

456
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 4: I mean some of the buildings here. Yeah, And the

457
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 4: Celebrity Center was a cool building back then. It was

458
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 4: not as fixed up when we lived there. I think

459
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 4: the church I like relatively recently acquired it, and my

460
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 4: mom was working as a receptionist there. We were living

461
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 4: in one of the rooms at the hotel, but it

462
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 4: felt kind of like, uh, tenement type living.

463
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 2: So wait, the hotel is that it's connected to scientology.

464
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 3: I didn't know that.

465
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying, Like, it's like a scientology hotel.

466
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 4: The Celebrity Center is a scientology hotel, and you know

467
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 4: they also deliver scientology services. In the first I want

468
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 4: to say, three floors plus the basement of that hotel.

469
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 4: They have public spaces, so the lobby and the you know,

470
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 4: restrooms and restaurants. There's a couple of restaurants on the

471
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 4: property below. There's like some old school bathrooms. I remember

472
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 4: hanging out with in as a kid, and I just

473
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 4: remember there being like a day that like a fainting

474
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 4: couch love there, and like I thought, it was the

475
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 4: coolest bathroom ember.

476
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: So it's like living in a dorm kind of, you're

477
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: all like living in the same place.

478
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 4: Well, at that time, we were very very young, and

479
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 4: my mom was working you know, night shifts there and stuff,

480
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 4: and it was just I don't remember it extremely well

481
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 4: because I was really young, but I do remember there

482
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 4: were other families with kids and stuff when we'd hang

483
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 4: out with the kids, and we kind of just like

484
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 4: ran around and ran them up, like no one really

485
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 4: was watching us most of the time. There are a

486
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 4: lot of my friends who grew up in what was

487
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 4: called the Cadet organization, So my mother was not part

488
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,479
Speaker 4: of the CEA organization, which was like even though she

489
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 4: was kind of wearing the role or playing the role

490
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 4: of one of those members, she was just considered a

491
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 4: staff member. She wasn't like part of the billionere contract

492
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 4: you've probably heard of or that type of thing. I

493
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 4: wouldn't say she was part time and that was her

494
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 4: full time job. But she was also not as like

495
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 4: committed I think, as everyone else, and she wasn't actually

496
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 4: qualified to be committed. And that's a whole nother thing

497
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 4: that has to do with drugs and LSD and you're

498
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 4: not allowed to join God.

499
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 2: I didn't know that.

500
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, So, yeah, she was working there, and we were

501
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 4: kind of hanging out with those kids who were living

502
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 4: full time in the cadet to work, as they called it,

503
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 4: like they basically had their own little organization run primarily

504
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 4: by children for children. There weren't a lot of parents around,

505
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 4: and I feel really bad for a lot of those

506
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 4: kids because my mom left that role at some point

507
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 4: and we still lived in really pretty awful conditions. My

508
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 4: parents had no money, and there wasn't like we weren't

509
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 4: doing much better then the people than the kids in

510
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 4: the sea or were, and with less assistance really, but

511
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,479
Speaker 4: we were not like bound by those like four walls,

512
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 4: so to speak, and we had a little definitely had

513
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 4: more freedom than the kids they know who grew up

514
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 4: that way and ended up with a somewhat better education,

515
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,239
Speaker 4: although my education was super patchy too, because it's all

516
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 4: scientology schooling and it doesn't necessarily follow any standardized curriculum

517
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 4: of a.

518
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know anything about that. Kids all go

519
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 3: to the school.

520
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 4: Not all, because there are families who don't. Just like

521
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 4: in Mormonism, every family is a bit different. I know

522
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 4: from talking to various you know, people who've grown up

523
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 4: in different cults or high demand organizations that you know,

524
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 4: your family may be less strict when it comes to

525
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 4: you know, like for instance, like what you can drink

526
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 4: if it's hot, you know, beverages, or whether or not

527
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 4: they're going to shun you if you leave. And it's

528
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 4: kind of similar in Scientology, although the shunning is a

529
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 4: little more black and white than that. But as far

530
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 4: as just like restrictions if you have to attend a

531
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 4: certain school, like if you have to go to the

532
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 4: you know, church and beyond services, there were certainly common threads,

533
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 4: but it wasn't necessarily that everyone went to a Scientology school.

534
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 4: I will say the majority of the children I grew

535
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 4: up with, probably nine out of ten, went to Scientology schools,

536
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 4: and those Scientology schools used al Ron Hubbard's study technology

537
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 4: to teach the kids. The majority of them were not

538
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 4: accredited schools. They were accredited by the Church of Scientology

539
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 4: and something and an offshoot that they call applied scholastics,

540
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 4: and those applied scholastic schools were like the gold standard

541
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 4: to Scientology parents of where they wanted to send their

542
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 4: children to learn. It's like I said, you don't know

543
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 4: until you look back, or you don't think something is

544
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 4: abusive or traumatic or whatever. It's just what you know

545
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 4: until you look back at it. I look back at

546
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 4: my schooling and I'm super regretful that were frustrated that

547
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 4: that was the choice that my parents made, because not

548
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 4: only were those schools very expensive to send your children

549
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 4: to very expensive, and my parents had like no money,

550
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 4: I mean, like, you know, utilities off, eating from the

551
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 4: community lunch program, no money, right, So to send your

552
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 4: children to a private school or you know, to pay

553
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 4: that kind of money for your children to go to

554
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 4: school when you can't even pay for basic needs seems

555
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 4: a little ridiculous. Yeah, And my mother worked, you know,

556
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 4: at the schools to try to get part of our

557
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 4: tuition covered and stuff like that, because that's how much

558
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 4: they wanted us to go to these schools. There are

559
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 4: a lot of them in the Los Angeles area, the

560
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 4: biggest one in LA and also they have a location

561
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 4: in Oregon that's a boarding school. They have a couple others,

562
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 4: but the boarding school in Oregon and then the one

563
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 4: in Los Angeles are probably the biggest. I'm assuming there's

564
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 4: one in Florida, but I'm not sure because that's the

565
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 4: other like sort of big mecca.

566
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 3: And it's K through twelve K through.

567
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 4: Twelve, and it's called Delphi Academy. That is where we

568
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 4: went when my mom like first put us into scientology schools.

569
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 4: It was probably right around first grade kindergarten age. The

570
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 4: first like kind of school with like a teacher that

571
00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 4: we sat in a classroom and had actual classes to

572
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 4: take was Delphi Academy. And that's sort of like the

573
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 4: gold standard for scientologists, I feel like, and they probably

574
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 4: are the best, Like if I'm comparing other scientology schools,

575
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 4: like they're probably one of the better ones. They Over

576
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 4: the years, at least, they have kind of come around

577
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 4: and started having more programs as far as like sports

578
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 4: and like playing against other private school teams and stuff

579
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 4: like that. But back then in the eighties and nineties,

580
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 4: like there was we didn't have any of that, right,

581
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 4: Like we've barely had like any arts program or certainly

582
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 4: a lot of our studies were focused on learning scientology

583
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 4: as well as like you know, math and English. The

584
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 4: science was like zilch. Then I've heard they have a

585
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 4: better science program now, but I learned like no science.

586
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 4: I learned like no history my mathematics when I left,

587
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 4: and I you know, I left school at fifteen and

588
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 4: dropped out, and then joined the C organization, which a

589
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 4: lot of people did, and I took like a version

590
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 4: of the GED that was given by a dude named

591
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 4: Larry Dennison in his house in Hollywood, and when I

592
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 4: failed it, he just basically gave me the answers and

593
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 4: then I retook it and I passed, and he was

594
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 4: not accredited, so that GED was not a real GV.

595
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 3: Oh sucks.

596
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 4: Gratefully, I ended up taking my Californy High School Proficiency

597
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 4: exam as well later, so I had a high school

598
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 4: diploma when I decided to go to college after I

599
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 4: realized I didn't want to keep doing scientology studies right,

600
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 4: But that was much later in my life, in my

601
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 4: late twenties, and gratefully I didn't have to like go

602
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 4: get a high school diploma too, which a lot of

603
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 4: my friends have had to do to go to college.

604
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh that's so sad. I had no

605
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: idea about that part of it. I just assumed scientology

606
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: kids went to regular schools, and I did too.

607
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 2: I had no idea that there are scientology schools.

608
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 4: No, and we even there was even a Hubbard University.

609
00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 4: It's no Brigham Young, but it's nobody's heard of it.

610
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 3: Where is that?

611
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 2: Where's the university?

612
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 4: It's in LA. It's called Hubbard College. Hubbard College.

613
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: Oh, for anyone who's like not watched a bunch of

614
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: scientology stuff, can you explain what the Sea Organization is?

615
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 4: Yeah? The Sea Organization is essentially the clergy of scientology.

616
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 4: So you know, if you were to sort of dedicate

617
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 4: yourself to the movement or religion or what have you,

618
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 4: you would be signing a billion year contract, which basically

619
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 4: just means you're creating to stay there forever. Yes, there's

620
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 4: a lot that has to do with like time and

621
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 4: time track and believing we've lived before this life and

622
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 4: stuff that plays a part in that billion years. But

623
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 4: it's like we'll come back and like keep on target

624
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 4: to save this planet kind of thing. Wow, you know

625
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 4: they say it's like the elite of scientology. I joined

626
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 4: when I was fifteen. I left short thereafter the sixteen.

627
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 4: When I left, I was in just around a year.

628
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 4: That was an eye opener, you know, it was for sure,

629
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 4: like this is the elite. Like everyone speaks to each

630
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 4: other horribly. There's like I'm treated like crap. I have

631
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 4: a fifty year old man yelling at me. I'm a

632
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 4: fifteen year old kid. He's screaming in my face and

633
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 4: calling me a diletante and like cursing at.

634
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 3: Me, Like why what was happening? What's the structure of

635
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 3: the days, like.

636
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 4: Depends on what your job is there. But when you start,

637
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 4: you're in like sort of a boot camp environment called

638
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 4: the Estate's Project Course. It's supposed to be about a

639
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,239
Speaker 4: three week program, but for most people I know, it

640
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 4: takes quite a bit longer. For me, it took about

641
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 4: three months. And for those three months, you dress in

642
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 4: the same clothes every day, which I'm sure you've seen

643
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 4: the people in their uniforms run around. As you wear

644
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 4: your uniforms, you have like a muster in the morning,

645
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 4: roll call, eat breakfast really early in the mess hall

646
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 4: before the rest of the staff get up and eat

647
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 4: their breakfast. You're the first shift or second shift. There's

648
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 4: one earlier shift of people who are like in trouble.

649
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 4: And then and then you go do your studies because

650
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 4: you have to get through five courses in order to

651
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 4: like move out of that boot camp. Right, So there

652
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 4: are these five courses to complete to go to your studies,

653
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 4: and for the rest of the day after that, you

654
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 4: do manual labor type work cleaning or I mean I

655
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 4: knocked down walls with a sledgehammer, moved refrigerators, you name it.

656
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 4: We did all sorts of random work. And then just

657
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 4: like cleaning, cleaning showers, cleaning the grease trap in the

658
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 4: mechanic area there and everything you can imagine. We cleaned.

659
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 4: And I did that for three months, primarily because I

660
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 4: was always in trouble. I've always been like a loud mouth,

661
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 4: like troublemaker type that says. What I think is you

662
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 4: have to get like your past for your the studies

663
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 4: right to finishing your courses, and then you have to

664
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 4: have a des pass, which is doing the manual labor,

665
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 4: and then you have to have a ethics pass. And

666
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 4: that one was troubling for me. I can I did

667
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 4: not get it, and I kept telling them like I

668
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 4: wanted to leave. Honestly, I was like so over it already,

669
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 4: but I would get like handled by. Somebody would come

670
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 4: in and talk to me and you know, get me

671
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 4: back on track. And then they finally finished it after

672
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 4: three months, and then I spend the rest of my

673
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 4: nine months or so there just doing various jobs. They

674
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 4: kept I call it clay pigeoning me, but like they

675
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 4: would just like shoot me over here, shoot me over there,

676
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 4: get me over there, like someone would almost like on

677
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 4: sporting teams, where like someone will trade you to another team.

678
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 4: It's literally like that. I would get traded to another organization.

679
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 4: They would put me on a position, I would start

680
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 4: the position, I would get traded to another one. So

681
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 4: in that nine months or so, I probably had five

682
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 4: or six different positions.

683
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 3: Just because you were a troublemaker.

684
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 4: I mean I was Okay, I think back, and I'm like,

685
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 4: I don't want troublemaker, Like I know my friends who

686
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 4: were like really troublemakers in scientology. I was just wasn't

687
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 4: very good at accepting authority, and so I usually would

688
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 4: be talking back to somebody or disagreeing with somebody or saying,

689
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 4: you know, like it just so that got me in

690
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 4: trouble a lot. I don't know the other reasons. I

691
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 4: mean it was I was usually pretty productive on whatever

692
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 4: position they put me. I always have been a very

693
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 4: hard worker. So I don't know if it just happened

694
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 4: to be that, Like you know, I never really stayed

695
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 4: long enough to sort of solidify in a position, and

696
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 4: so I was like, well, people just got here and

697
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 4: like we can just kind of throw over there. But

698
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 4: I'm not totally sure why. I don't think there was

699
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 4: any like one defining reason.

700
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 3: So were you like a strong believer at this point?

701
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, you know, like every kid or most kids,

702
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 4: I very much wanted to approve of my parents, my

703
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 4: dad in particular, Like that relationship has come up a

704
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 4: lot in therapy and just about life. He's not around anymore,

705
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 4: but he he was a super charismatic, very narcissistic guy.

706
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 4: He wouldn't tell his children like I love you, Like

707
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 4: that wasn't part of his normal. Ver a bitch. In fact,

708
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 4: Like I tried, even as an adult, like to just

709
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 4: be like I love you, Dad, and he'd be like thanks,

710
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 4: you know, all the way. One time he told me

711
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 4: Dad loves you, which was so awkward, Oh okay, third

712
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 4: person person. And he didn't even call it, like he

713
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 4: didn't like being called daddy. Always wanted to call him Tom.

714
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 4: So that's another thing. But anyway, so I think part

715
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 4: of it was that, like on my eighth birthday, I

716
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 4: asked for a like scientology course for my birthday, right,

717
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 4: so I was like, what do I want for my birthday?

718
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,479
Speaker 4: Like my parents were taking the courses. I can't remember

719
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 4: if maybe my older brother had started and taking on

720
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 4: because he was a year older than me. And I

721
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 4: said one eight and there's this course called the eight dynamics,

722
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 4: So like, can I take that one course? It was

723
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 4: like a very short, simple course you could take it

724
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 4: that like introductory level type thing. And my dad was

725
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 4: so proud that I wanted that far, So like that

726
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 4: affirming like nature of your dad, who isn't really like

727
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 4: super loving and like seems kind of annoyed by the

728
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 4: fact that he has a kid, you know, to have

729
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 4: him be like affirming like that and get praising me

730
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 4: for wanting you know, I think that was probably the

731
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 4: catalyst for me in wanting to continue doing it. And

732
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 4: really that's a common thread throughout my life history with

733
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 4: scientology because eventually, yes, like I took some studies and

734
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, that's cool, Like I'm going to

735
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 4: take the next thing. And then I made friends and

736
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 4: then it was like fitting in with those friends. You know,

737
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 4: it was never like I'm so interested in this topic

738
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 4: that I just came wait to get to the next page,

739
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 4: like everyone else is doing it, and I feel like

740
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 4: obligated and like affirmed by those people. So when I

741
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 4: left the New York, I very much was not interested anymore.

742
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 2: At the beginning of it were You're like, yeah, I'm

743
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: gonna work in this for a billion years, Like that

744
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: made sense to you, Like.

745
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 4: Yes, I was getting in a lot of trouble with

746
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 4: my friends a lot, and like I was starting to

747
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 4: see friends go down like some paths that seemed. And

748
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 4: I'm sure you know this if you grew up in

749
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 4: a very strict environment with like super strict morals like

750
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 4: in scientology, you don't really do drugs or drink or

751
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 4: all of these sort of things that a lot of

752
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 4: teenagers get into. Is like big, big no no, and

753
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 4: you feel very guilty and shameful for engaging in those

754
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 4: kind of activities. And I was fifteen and all my

755
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 4: friends were starting to like sleep with boy and you know, drink,

756
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 4: and I ended up dropping out of school before I

757
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 4: joined the Sea York. I left school to move to

758
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 4: Las Vegas with a friend she was definitely like a

759
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 4: troublemaker friend. She bought in all the trouble. She was

760
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 4: older than me by a couple of years. And I

761
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 4: moved there and worked at the Stratosphere hotel and casino

762
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 4: for us actually another scientology organization, scientology business that was

763
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 4: selling like different products at various malls and stuff, and

764
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 4: the Stratosphere had the like shops there that I was

765
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 4: selling one of their products, living in one of the

766
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 4: homes that they had like basically provided me, so I

767
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 4: would pay them like a weekly amount of money. And

768
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 4: even though I wasn't old enough to like have my

769
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 4: own apartment, I basically had my own apartment with a

770
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 4: couple of other workers for the company. Because you had

771
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 4: to stay somewhere right like I was coming from La

772
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 4: So I went out there and that definitely was like

773
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 4: a lot of freedom for me. And I was fifteen

774
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 4: and I met guys and I had I was drinking

775
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 4: a lot. I mean, I'm an alcoholic. I'm recovering alcoholics

776
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 4: now of twelve years, but like I started drinking around thirteen,

777
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 4: and it got pretty heavy really fast, and so I

778
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 4: was certainly non supervised and drinking like every day. Then

779
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 4: my friends a couple of them got pretty heavily into meth.

780
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 4: I did not get into meth, but it was just

781
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 4: around me all the time. I ended up living for

782
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 4: a brief period of time in a trailer with a

783
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 4: meth dealer and his dog and his mom.

784
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.

785
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, so like that kind of stuff, the you know,

786
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 4: good girl inside of me that was just like I

787
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 4: shouldn't be doing all this stuff and I shouldn't be

788
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 4: around all these people. And then I gotten like scared

789
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 4: that I was going to get in some serious trouble.

790
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 4: We got pulled over in a car that was stolen

791
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 4: like some some pretty heavy oh my gosh, and I

792
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 4: was like that said I'm going home, right, So I

793
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 4: like hopped on a greyhound or did I actually drive back,

794
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 4: I can't remember. I took a greyhound one way, came

795
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 4: back to LA and literally walked into the organization we

796
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 4: call the org Church in Hollywood the Blue Buildings and

797
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 4: found them on until I Want Joy in this year.

798
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 4: So it was more about like self regulation than anything

799
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 4: else as a young child, like this will keep me

800
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 4: out of trouble, and I will get it. I will

801
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 4: have to go down this path that like I'm watching

802
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,439
Speaker 4: people go down and the drugs scared the shit out

803
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 4: of me. I think it's so scared. Yeah, it's like

804
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 4: a very scared straight type kid. Like I saw videos

805
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 4: about that and I was so worried and never did math.

806
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 4: Never really did many drugs. Aside from smoking some weed

807
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 4: and hills biking in and all that fun stuff. I

808
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 4: never really did much as far as like any harder

809
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 4: drugs were concerned. And I got sober at age twenty six. Yeah,

810
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 4: there's times where I'm like, especially in the you know,

811
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 4: I don't know if you've heard this podcast, Mormon's I

812
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 4: mess are not.

813
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 3: No, it actually is like and.

814
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 4: There's a whole community now Mormons on mushrooms, which is

815
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 4: a very from my understanding. And I know that the

816
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 4: dude who dies the podcast much more about just like

817
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 4: spirituality and trying to like figure stuff out after leaving

818
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 4: you know, that environment. But I know a lot of

819
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 4: people who have like used psychedelics in particular and in

820
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 4: from my ahuasca to mushrooms and much of that. Many

821
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 4: of them do like microdose type stuff. And in scientology,

822
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 4: you're very turned against the idea of psychotherapy, of psychology,

823
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 4: of psychiatry, and particularly against medication, psychological medication, Psychiatric medication

824
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 4: is like the Antichrist, the devil, the worst thing you

825
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 4: could do. And so I've had my struggles with depression

826
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 4: and being both sober and being turned off to psychiatric drugs.

827
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 4: Even after leaving, you know, I still there's just like

828
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 4: a mental hurdle that's so hard to break through that

829
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 4: there's definitely been this voice in my head that's like, well,

830
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 4: maybe like I could try this instead, you know, and.

831
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 3: That might like psychedelics you mean, yeah, like the microdosing.

832
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 4: A lot of people I know who have anxiety and

833
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 4: who deal with like depression have had very good results

834
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 4: with microdose.

835
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

836
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I'm like, I definitely have that voice in

837
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 4: my head that's like maybe, But there's also the other

838
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 4: voice that's like, I've built like an incredible business for

839
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 4: myself and amassed a lot of properties and wealth and

840
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 4: much has come into my life since my sobriety that

841
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 4: I'm way too like concerned that it will not go

842
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 4: the way that I would like it too, and that

843
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 4: I will somehow like lose everything that I've built. So

844
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 4: you're I'm a realtor, Yeah.

845
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, you said something about like your mom

846
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 2: wasn't allowed to do the sea work because she did LSD.

847
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 2: Is that did I catch that?

848
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 4: Okay?

849
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 2: So, so beyond drugs for depression and stuff.

850
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, drugs in general.

851
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 2: Okay, but psychedelics are like the worst.

852
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 4: Psychedelics are the worst. And Elron Harvard says that like, essentially, well,

853
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 4: there's this whole thing he developed called the purification rundown

854
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 4: to purify your mind and your body. The purification rundown

855
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 4: is essentially you take a whole lot of vitamins and

856
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 4: oil and less of thin and you sit in asauna

857
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 4: for five hours at a time and you're trying to

858
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 4: like sweat out and purify out with these supplements the

859
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 4: drugs or toxins from your system. So and he was

860
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 4: pretty specific about psychedelics staying in your cells and your

861
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,240
Speaker 4: system longer than other drugs and that like latent effects

862
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 4: can happen from those particular instances and trips that you

863
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 4: might have years after you've taken something or what have you.

864
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 4: And so like that was really pushed from childhood. I mean,

865
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 4: that kind of rhetoric, that information, those facts right like

866
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 4: that you hear from childhood foreign and whether or not

867
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 4: they're truth they're touted as facts, they're touted as source

868
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 4: as the place that you know, you get all your

869
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 4: answers from. So the villainization of the psychiatric field, it

870
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 4: was really hard for me even to walk into a

871
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 4: therapist's office. I mean, let alone like take an antidepressant. Oh,

872
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 4: I'm sure I was talking to someone recently about her

873
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 4: experience with antidepressants and like very low dose antidepressants. And

874
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,919
Speaker 4: I'm definitely like at this place in my life where

875
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 4: I'm much more open to the concept and like having

876
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 4: the conversation with a doctor if I ever make a

877
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 4: freak appointment, because I keep saying I'm going to and don't.

878
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 4: But like, that's a conversation I'm more open to having now.

879
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 4: And you know, I'm thirty nine years old now, so

880
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 4: I'm middle aged and halfway through my life considering that

881
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 4: maybe I could battle my depression with a medication that's

882
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 4: intended for that, right.

883
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 1: I have a friend who was a former scientologist, but

884
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: we were never really sure.

885
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 3: I'm not even going to use their pronouns.

886
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: We were never really sure whether they still kind of

887
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: believed because they wouldn't really talk about it. And I

888
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: remember there was one occasion when we were talking about

889
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: some things that had happened in their past, and I

890
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: was like, well, you know, it sounds like you might

891
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: have some trauma for that, Like have you thought about,

892
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, getting some help, And they were like, I've

893
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,280
Speaker 1: already processed that, right, and like just totally like greatly.

894
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

895
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 3: A wall went up and I was like, doesn't sound

896
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 3: like you processed that, but.

897
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: Clearly like there was some childhood thing or she just

898
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: believe that what is the process called the auditing auditing, yeah,

899
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 1: or something had like taken care of it so there

900
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 1: was nothing to deal with anymore.

901
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 4: And auditing, you know, it's a very different experience than

902
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 4: therapy because it's very repetitive. So if you were in

903
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 4: an auditing session, it always starts the same way. If

904
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 4: you're getting e metered auditing, it always starts the same way.

905
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 4: You're sitting in front of another person, they say, squeeze

906
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 4: the cans please. If you squeeze these cans, thank you.

907
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 4: Squeeze the cans please. Once they get whatever read they're

908
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 4: looking for, they'll say, take a deep breath and let

909
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 4: it out through your mouth and then they say thank you.

910
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 4: Is there any reason why we should not begin this

911
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 4: auditing session, You'll say no, and I'll say thank you.

912
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 4: This is the session. And so every session starts that

913
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 4: exact same way, and then they do something called running

914
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 4: your roots your rudiments to make sure that there are

915
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 4: there's no like present time things in your life that

916
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 4: are going to stop you from being able to talk

917
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 4: about your past. Right, so, like what's happening right now?

918
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 4: To ask you a series of questions, they're always the same,

919
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 4: and then they'll go into like the change, you know,

920
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 4: whatever the thing is for that day. But even those

921
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 4: types of questions are very repetitive. So if it was like,

922
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 4: tell me about a time when you were happy, Okay,

923
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 4: well I had this time when I was happy and

924
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 4: it was my birthday and all these people came out.

925
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 4: We had this party. It was a lot of fun.

926
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:28,919
Speaker 4: I felt really good about it and got to see

927
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 4: all my friends and have cake. It's like, great, you know,

928
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 4: thank you for telling me that. Tell me another earlier,

929
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 4: similar time when you were happy. And when I was

930
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 4: doing those types of processes when I was young and

931
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,919
Speaker 4: I didn't do them much as an adult, I hated it.

932
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 4: I felt like I couldn't get to the end that

933
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 4: I was supposed to get to like you're supposed to

934
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 4: have a certain phenomena happened so that you can finish

935
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 4: and move on with your life and get out of

936
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 4: the room. I never knew what it was, and maybe

937
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 4: if I had studied more, I would have had a

938
00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 4: better idea of Like I I didn't know exactly what

939
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 4: I was supposed to be telling them. I was always

940
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 4: just trying to be like overly happy and fake and

941
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 4: pretend so that I could be done with the thing

942
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 4: and get out. And then there were other other times

943
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 4: where they use that same process or that same E

944
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 4: meter to try to find out things about you, and

945
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 4: so it was also like punishment almost like something happened

946
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 4: and they're like, well, we're gonna put you on the

947
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 4: meter and we're going to ask you these questions. And

948
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 4: they would go on this like fact finding mission to

949
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,280
Speaker 4: find out, you know, bad things about you as well.

950
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 4: And so much of my time with that was, especially

951
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 4: when I was in the sewer, was levied at sex, masturbation, sexuality,

952
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 4: you know, like and I'm fifteen sixteen, so all I

953
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 4: am is like a bundle of hormones that doesn't even

954
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 4: know what my sexuality is doesn't even know. But what

955
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 4: I'm you know, like constantly wants to touch myself. It

956
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 4: was embarrassed to talk about it so like that and

957
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 4: to sit there and usually God, I have this one

958
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 4: awful memory of this really attractive twenty something twenty two

959
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 4: to twenty three year old guy asking me about like

960
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 4: touching my anus, and it was just like I was

961
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 4: in tears. I was like, I don't want to talk

962
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 4: about it.

963
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 3: That is so traumatizing. Jesus.

964
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 4: Not only is it traumatizing, but it's sexual abuse to

965
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 4: have an adult asking a child those questions and you

966
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 4: don't realize that until much later in life. And to

967
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 4: just normalize adults talking to kids about that, I mean

968
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 4: from a very very young age, that was just a

969
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 4: normal thing where you had to sort of get your

970
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 4: sins out or what we called overts and withholds and

971
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 4: telling all of this stuff to grown ups.

972
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

973
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'm in a very pointed like way. It

974
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 4: wasn't like a twenty second or five minute confessional. We're

975
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 4: talking like they want you to describe and detail every

976
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 4: thought the whole incident, from beginning to end, if you

977
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 4: had masturbated or had something happen with your boyfriend or girlfriend. Right, So,

978
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 4: and if it was God forbid, it wasn't the opposite

979
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:19,359
Speaker 4: sex because that would be very bad. Right.

980
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: To be continued next week in part two. So, Megan,

981
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,879
Speaker 1: what do you think would you join Scientology?

982
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: As I said, I did try to move into the

983
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 2: Scientology Celebrity Center, and I didn't know that's what it was.

984
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: Which I feel like they suck people in with maybe

985
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 2: maybe parties.

986
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 3: I don't they suck people in with parties. Well, they're

987
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 3: always like, come be an actor.

988
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 2: We're having a workshop and a party, and then people

989
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,439
Speaker 2: are like, and then I signed up fors Idology, right.

990
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 4: I don't know.

991
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 3: Maybe they're just workshops. I guess I could see you joining.

992
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, workshops they get they get you with the thinking

993
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 1: that you're going to learn something and gonna like spiritually grows.

994
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 2: Parties to me, Okay, guys, I like to party wherever

995
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 2: I go. But honestly, I just don't see myself joining

996
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 2: just because I cannot imagine myself giving somebody so much money,

997
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 2: to be honest.

998
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 3: True, true, Oh, we should have asked about how people

999
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 3: who don't have a lot of money advance in the

1000
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 3: in the group we didn't. I didn't.

1001
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 2: Well, then you're just like sent to the c RG

1002
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 2: and you're essentially and night for better or for worse.

1003
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 2: I just don't see myself doing that, so I think

1004
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:26,399
Speaker 2: i'd be.

1005
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: Safe same And I actually as I as we discussed

1006
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: in another episode, I did go take the stress test

1007
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 1: at one point and do the whole three hour shebang

1008
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,439
Speaker 1: and definitively did not want to join when I left

1009
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: that process. So I guess we know what my answer is.

1010
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: But I guess that makes sense for me.

1011
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, scientology, we're good.

1012
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 3: Those questions on that IQ test had nothing to.

1013
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 1: Do with facts. They were just weird subjective questions that

1014
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 1: didn't make any sense. So you're gonna have to try

1015
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: a little harder to get me. Yeah, I know.

1016
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 3: I don't know what that accent was, but it was something.

1017
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 2: I think it was like cocknie mixed with tiredness.

1018
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,879
Speaker 3: I don't hear the cockney, but I like it.

1019
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,919
Speaker 2: I just heard somebody not fully committing to do it.

1020
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 3: I think it was a here we.

1021
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 1: I'm sorry the psychology, I don't understand what was that

1022
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: my accents. I'm bad at this. I should take a

1023
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 1: dialect class. Yeah, maybe scientology has one.

1024
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 2: Scientology offers one.

1025
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,760
Speaker 3: They do diynatics or dialects. Chuse your poison.

1026
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 1: Oh fuck, all right, well I think that's it.

1027
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: Thanks guys, yeah, thank you guys so much for listening,

1028
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 2: and remember as always to follow your gut, watch out

1029
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 2: for red flags.

1030
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 3: And that never ever trust me, trust me.

1031
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 2: Bye.