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Speaker 1: tell them George Nori sent you. Now Here's a highlight

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Speaker 1: from coast to coast am on iHeart Radio and welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Coast to Coast George Dorry with you. As

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Speaker 1: America's leading pro victim rights and personal safety advocate. Tim

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Speaker 1: Larkin is used to his fair share of controversy After

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Speaker 1: being named the two thousand eleven Self Defense Instructor of

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Speaker 1: the Year and simultaneously inducted into the Black Belt Hall

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Speaker 1: of Fame. He ended the year by taking on the

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Speaker 1: United Kingdom's Home Secretary and getting banned from the UK

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Speaker 1: for a stand on a citizen's right to defend themselves

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Speaker 1: there from violence, and currently Tim is appealing that decision

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Speaker 1: from the UK government, and his speaking engagements have never

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Speaker 1: been more pointed and engaging as violent crime rises all

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Speaker 1: over the place and economic weakness causes severe cutbacks and

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Speaker 1: police forces in the Western world. Here's Tim Larkin on

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast. What a great time to have you

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Speaker 1: on the show. Tim, welcome, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Charge appreciate it. I wanted to get you because your

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Speaker 1: book is when Violence Is the Answer, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of that has to do with personal things for people,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get into, but I want to tie that

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Speaker 1: into North Korea. For a moment um, this guy has

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Speaker 1: been pushing and pushing and pushing. Eventually, I predict we're

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Speaker 1: going to have to do something violent to stop him.

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Speaker 1: Does that fit your criteria for this, Yeah, it's really

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Speaker 1: you know, my criteria on the personal side is probably

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Speaker 1: the same same criteria that I have for you know,

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Speaker 1: when you look at national situations, uh, in international situations,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really when you get to the point where

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Speaker 1: where're devoid a choice, which is we're getting very close

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Speaker 1: with North Korea. UM, when he's you know, doing the

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Speaker 1: aggressive missile launches and then you know, upping the anti

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Speaker 1: with hydrogen UM. You know, Mom's You're You're to the

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Speaker 1: point to where you're forced into a corner. You know,

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Speaker 1: Nikki Helly said it. You know, he's basically begging for

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Speaker 1: war and we're going to have to We're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to respond. And the question is there's just a lot

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of consequences to responding that.

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Speaker 1: That was one of the situations when I was in

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Speaker 1: the military. We looked at this is this problem has

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Speaker 1: been worked many times over. Had the greatest confidence that

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Speaker 1: we have a very good plan. It's just being able

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Speaker 1: to control the The ultimate outcome is going to be

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Speaker 1: the difficulty. Yeah, and I'm I'm afraid the outcome is

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Speaker 1: not going to be pleasant, but necessity absolutely. So the

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Speaker 1: name of the book is when Violence is the Answer.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about that title, because that tells you everything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I specifically use the term violence. UM. And it was

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Speaker 1: it was controversial. It was controversial with my publisher. UM.

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Speaker 1: They fought me on it. UM. They thought it was

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Speaker 1: too harsh. They thought they thought violencely you know, and

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Speaker 1: they look at it purely from a marketing standpoint. You know,

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Speaker 1: they want to sell books, and I completely appreciate that,

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Speaker 1: and they thought it was gonna be much harder to

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Speaker 1: get a book with violence in the title, you know,

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Speaker 1: UM to the UM, to the stands that they wanted

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Speaker 1: to get it to, in the vendors, they wanted to

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Speaker 1: get it to. UM. It wasn't until the Pulse nightclub

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Speaker 1: and San Bernardino shootings happened that they quickly saw, you know,

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Speaker 1: just how prevalent this was in you know, the US.

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Speaker 1: And and then of course, you know, since then, we've

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Speaker 1: had all the other attacks and its specifically the what

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Speaker 1: I've been talking about all along is the idea that

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Speaker 1: the mind is the most powerful, you know tool that

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Speaker 1: we have that that's our most powerful weapon. And you

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Speaker 1: can't control the mind, meaning you can't ban the mind.

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Speaker 1: You can't you know, you can't, you can't outlaw it.

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Speaker 1: And they intend to do harm is there. And what

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Speaker 1: we're seeing is we're seeing a lot of organizations use

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Speaker 1: the idea of low tech um implementation of violence with

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Speaker 1: a high concept. You know, being able to take something

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Speaker 1: as easy as a um, you know, a chef's knife

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Speaker 1: and turning into an act of terror, and something is

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Speaker 1: uple as a car or truck and turn it into

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Speaker 1: something everyday implements that you can't control and they know,

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Speaker 1: damn well you can't control it. Um. That that is

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Speaker 1: one of the things that people really get uncomfortable with it.

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Speaker 1: You know, we want things that we can control. We

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Speaker 1: want things that we can we can say, okay, we

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Speaker 1: can put gun control on here and feel good about this. UM.

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Speaker 1: That's that's the problem with, you know, the intent to

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Speaker 1: do harm. And we're seeing more and more and we

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Speaker 1: don't have an answer because we've stigmatized the study of

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Speaker 1: the violence and we've said that it's really you know

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Speaker 1: that that even to look at the subject makes you criminal.

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Speaker 1: And therefore, you know, the only people that have access

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Speaker 1: to it truly are the predators of our society or

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Speaker 1: you know, like our first responders, the citizens, law buying citizens.

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Speaker 1: Really they've had that taken away from they have basic

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Speaker 1: right of self defense taken away from them. I was

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Speaker 1: just going to say that the bad guys are the

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Speaker 1: ones that are using violence against the good guys, because

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Speaker 1: right now the good guys really aren't fighting back, are they. Well, no,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's just it. It's you know, the it's

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Speaker 1: well meaning meaning. The the laws are well meaning, you know,

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Speaker 1: especially you know in the UK, the UK is even

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Speaker 1: more severe than the US on self defense. Um. But

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Speaker 1: really what's happening is they the governments really want you

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Speaker 1: to basically just acquiesce to first responders. They they are

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Speaker 1: very uncomfortable with the idea of personal liberty and the

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Speaker 1: idea of um, you know, the citizens being their own

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Speaker 1: first responders. And I'm talking in a justified manner. I'm

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Speaker 1: not talking in a vigil anti manner or in anything

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Speaker 1: crazy like that. I'm talking about a situation where they're

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Speaker 1: facing imminent grievous bodily harm, their devoid of choice. If

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Speaker 1: they don't take action, they're going to essentially be participating

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Speaker 1: in their own murder. And you know, under those conditions,

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Speaker 1: that's when violence is the answer. And unfortunately, right now,

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Speaker 1: very few of us have anything in the toolbox. We've

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Speaker 1: been told old that you know, um, you know that

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Speaker 1: we can't look at this subject. And you know that's

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Speaker 1: the whole point behind talking about the subject. My whole

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Speaker 1: goal is just a let people know that talking about violence,

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Speaker 1: and I talked about violence as a tool, how you

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Speaker 1: use the tool will be determined whether it was justified

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Speaker 1: use of the tool or if it was a criminal

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Speaker 1: use of the tool. I'm not worried about those that

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Speaker 1: are going to use it as a criminal use of

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Speaker 1: the tool, nor am I worried about them getting any

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Speaker 1: new information. They already know it all anyway, absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: the people that really need it are the people like

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Speaker 1: in this audience and law by citizens that are going

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Speaker 1: about their lives, and should they ever face one of

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Speaker 1: these situations, you know, they should have as access to

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Speaker 1: the tool as much as the predator has it. So

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Speaker 1: your definition to him of violence could also be self defense. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: self defense is what happens after an act of violence.

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Speaker 1: It's determined whether meaning if you think about it just

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Speaker 1: in general. I'm not a lawyer, but I mean I've

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Speaker 1: had a lot of attorneys, you know, I've worked with

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Speaker 1: attorneys on this, and essentially that we were never the

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Speaker 1: law is never okay with an act of violence in

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Speaker 1: and of itself. What happens is they look at an

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Speaker 1: act of violence and they say, okay, was this all

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Speaker 1: things considered? Was this a justified use of violence? Was

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Speaker 1: this person truly in need of self defense? And so

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Speaker 1: self defense is is really something that is determined after

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Speaker 1: the fact. There's very little information though when we there's

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Speaker 1: lots of information after the act of violence, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of information up to the act of violence,

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Speaker 1: you know, really coming up to you look at things

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Speaker 1: like anger management, conflict resolution, all of those things. When

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Speaker 1: it gets to the physical plane and people are actually

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Speaker 1: in the act of violence, that's where there's just very

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Speaker 1: little good information for people if they're trying to save

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Speaker 1: their lives, and that that's really what I focus on

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Speaker 1: focus on at that point. But you're absolutely right, you know,

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Speaker 1: after the fact, it is self defense. That is what

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Speaker 1: I am advocating. I'm advocating using violence for your own

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Speaker 1: self defense. Let me ask you this possibility and tell

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Speaker 1: me how you would handle this. And let's assume you're

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Speaker 1: a concealed weapons permit holder in whatever state you're living in.

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Speaker 1: You're walking at night down the sidewalk, and a couple

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Speaker 1: of thugs come up to you. They pull out knives

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Speaker 1: and they say, give me your wallet or I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: stab you. And you've got that gun on you, and

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Speaker 1: you've you've got access to that gun. It's right there

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Speaker 1: in your pocket and maybe your hands there. The question

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Speaker 1: is do you pull out that gun right away and

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Speaker 1: start shooting or do you just hand them the wallet

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Speaker 1: and hope they just walk away and you don't want

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Speaker 1: to get involved in the shooting, even though you have

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Speaker 1: that gun with you, What do you do? That's a

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Speaker 1: that's an outstanding question because it really highlights the idea

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Speaker 1: of antisocial aggression versus a social violence. Well, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about in the scenario that you just talked about his

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Speaker 1: antisocial aggression. What I mean by that is there's still

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Speaker 1: communication going on. Is unpleasant, but there's communication going on.

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Speaker 1: You have the choice at that point to utilize your

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Speaker 1: communications skill to solve the problem. You know, if you

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Speaker 1: truly think I can tell you I can give you

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Speaker 1: examples of people that in the scenario that you just

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Speaker 1: gave me that they said, you know what, I think

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Speaker 1: this is just a robbery. They fully understood they were

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Speaker 1: taking a risk, but they complied and the person left.

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Speaker 1: Other people said there was just something wrong about this guy.

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Speaker 1: I didn't feel right about this. There's something I didn't

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Speaker 1: believe it was just a robbery, and they took action. Um,

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Speaker 1: And so I counsel people all the time that, um,

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Speaker 1: you know a lot oftentimes it gets a bad rap,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's really you know, the nonverbal communication that

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Speaker 1: goes on within your within your body. You know, we

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Speaker 1: called our six centers, called whatever you want, but really

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Speaker 1: it's just nonverbal cues. We've had these these instincts in us,

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Speaker 1: you know, for thousands of years. If your body is

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Speaker 1: screaming at you that something's wrong internally, you need to

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Speaker 1: pay attention to that. And when I've talked to people

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Speaker 1: and after action situations, that was a difference. If that

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Speaker 1: was triggered in somebody, they took action. If they had

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Speaker 1: you know, if they had a concealed carry or something,

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Speaker 1: they took action and they used violence to protect themselves.

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Speaker 1: Then there are just as many other people that didn't

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Speaker 1: get that trigger felt it was okay and said, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is just a robbery. I'm gonna go ahead and

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Speaker 1: comply give him what he wants and then, you know,

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Speaker 1: let them leave. The problem with that, I think tim

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Speaker 1: is if the person is wrong in his assumption that

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Speaker 1: this guy is just going to grab my wallet and

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Speaker 1: leave and he's holding this knife on me. If you're wrong,

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Speaker 1: you could get killed. Absolutely absolutely, So you know the

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Speaker 1: story that I like to tell everybody. And in a

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Speaker 1: situation like that, there was a situation in London approximately

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Speaker 1: uh now I was twelve years ago. A young lawyer

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Speaker 1: was leaving and uh leaving of the tube station and

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Speaker 1: decided to walk through a nicer part of And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a bad part of on but he decided it

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Speaker 1: was eleven o'clock at night and decided to walk through

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Speaker 1: a park to his condo. It sounds dicey, but it

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Speaker 1: really was. It was actually a very nice area of town.

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Speaker 1: U two guys followed him into the park. They threw

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Speaker 1: him up against a tree, putt knives to his throat

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Speaker 1: to manage his watch, wallet, his briefcase. He was a

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Speaker 1: young lawyer, gave them everything, and they left. And everybody

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Speaker 1: loves that part of the story because he did everything

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Speaker 1: that met prob and all that. The problem was they

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Speaker 1: came back. Now, when they came back, their heads were down,

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Speaker 1: their knives were drawn. They ran him down and they

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Speaker 1: stabbed him to death. They left and came back that

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Speaker 1: same moment, and and and it came to the point

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Speaker 1: to where they the two guys left. Then one guy

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Speaker 1: looked at the other said he he saw our faces.

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Speaker 1: Probably shouldn't we probably shouldn't let him walk away. That

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Speaker 1: was as much spot as they put into it. Then

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Speaker 1: they came back and they saying when they came back

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Speaker 1: the second time as a very different profile. They came

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Speaker 1: back with no communication whatsoever. It was in an a

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Speaker 1: social profile. And that's what I tried to counsel people

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Speaker 1: in the book. We talked about it, the idea of

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Speaker 1: understanding the difference between anti social aggression where there is

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Speaker 1: some communication and then absolutely when it's a social the

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Speaker 1: only situation, the only tool is going to get you

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Speaker 1: out of there is violence, and you're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: use that. And that's really what helped save people's wives.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast a m. Every weeknight

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Speaker 1: at one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to

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Speaker 1: coast am dot com for more