WEBVTT - The Chicago Connection 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.279 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:06.479 those of the authors and participants and do not necessarily 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:10.400 represent those of iHeart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:15.280 This series contains discussions of violence and sexual violence. Listener 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:23.480 discretion is advised previously an algorithm. After Vaughan's release from 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.880 prison in August, he returned to Gary and his confirmed 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:31.760 murders appeared to begin early in fourteen with the disappearance 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:37.800 of Tierra Baty as way nor call it never happened, 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.840 and although her fiance, Marvin Clinton, uncovered that a man 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.320 was using her cell phone and provided cell records to police, 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.320 it appears police didn't investigate this lead. They looked at 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:51.960 about they didn't have it, so we don't know what 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:55.080 the other detective dea where did it? Blew it away? 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.520 On what abblicate may be. And when Vaughan kidnapped and 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.480 sexually assaulted a sex worker, her rape kit went untested 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.679 and that left bond free to continue to kill. No 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:09.760 sexual assaults in particular, the departments are under resource, they're 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.959 not followed up on, and this is what happens when 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:17.280 you don't follow up on them. Sexual offenders continue to offend, 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.360 but could Vaughan have been stopped even earlier? The police 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:25.880 had just heated hard Groups warnings from my Heart Radio 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:30.520 and Tenderfoot TV. This is Algorithm. I'm benk kee Brick. 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.600 After I'd gone through Vond's interrogations, I reached back out 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.720 to Hargrove. I'm not sure if he remembered who I was, 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.960 so I'm sorry. I've forgotten which podcast is this. I 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.640 tried not to take it personally. It had been almost 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.520 a year since I first contacted him, and while I've 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:51.280 been going back and listening to my interviews with him 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:53.800 over and over as they worked on the early episodes. 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.000 To him, I was just some random guy who reached 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.200 out to him with the vague idea that I was 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:01.880 going to make a pie cast. But when I let 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.840 him know I'd managed to get my hands on Von's confessions, 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.560 he lit up. You did. Yeah, that's one of the 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:10.120 things that I was really excited about and wanted to 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:14.160 share with you. You you're making news. Yeah, So it 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.560 got a lot of audio. It's almost all of his confessions. 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:20.919 I told hard Growth that had gone through Von's confessions 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.920 looking for some sort of smoking gun that would clearly 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.799 connect him to one of the crimes hard Grove had identified, 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:32.079 but it was Hard bonded confession erically to committing many murders. 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:37.560 How many people are you responsible for killing? Is a 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.919 lifetime are couldn't need the two. But Von hadn't provided 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.040 many details about these crimes, and when it came to 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:48.440 cold cases in Indiana, he'd only provided specifics about two incidents, 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:51.480 the two murders he said he was responsible for in 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.200 Hammond when Detective Ford had pressed him. And these two 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:59.679 crimes that Von described didn't match the ones from Hargrove's algorithm, 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.639 but were cheatings and not strangulations. But I did now 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.079 have a much better sense of Vaughan and his m O, 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.240 so I decided to go back through the crimes hard 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.200 Grove had identified and researched them to see if any 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.040 stood out. I was looking for crimes from when Von 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.240 was living in Gary, especially where the victim might have 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.040 had a history of sex work or drug abuse, or 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.920 crimes where it appeared the victim had been discovered in 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:28.320 an abandoned building long after they've been killed. Hard Grove's 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:32.359 algorithm had identified fifteen women who had been strangled between 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.880 and two thousand seven, and he had identified what he 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:40.200 saw as two rough patterns. In recent years, several women 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:44.520 have been strangled in their homes. In at least two cases, 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:48.200 of fire was set after the women were killed. Also, 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:52.080 starting in the nineteen nineties, we've seen several women who 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:57.000 were found strangled in or near abandoned buildings. I decided 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.160 to start with one of the more recent cases on 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.200 hard Groves list. Her Grove's letter stated that an unidentified 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.320 female victim had been found in an abandoned garage on 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:10.200 February two thousand seven, and her body had been set 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.040 on fire. This would have been a couple of years 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.520 after Vaughan's incident with Sharita and the gasoline, so I 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.359 wondered if Vaughn might have a fixation with fire. Plus, 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:23.159 he had mentioned in the interrogations that the incident with 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.800 Sharita had made him go back out of control, it 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:29.240 had awakened his murder rages, so I thought that might 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:32.320 be an indication that he'd started killing soon after that. 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.600 It turned out that there had been a breakthroughing the 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.680 case after Hargrove had sent the letter to Gary police. 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.880 She has been dead for seven years. Her name remains 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.960 a mystery, but the Lake County, Indiana Corners Office it's 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.039 hopeful that new forensic artwork will give a real name 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:53.760 to Jane Gary Dough. The National Center for Missing and 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:58.040 Exploited Children put out a new facial reconstruction of the victim. 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.200 They were hoping that a member of the public could 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:04.240 identify her. The new picture was published in the local paper, 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.159 which also mentioned that she was thought to be somewhere 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.719 between sixteen and twenty, and that she had scars in 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.599 various stages of healing on her face and torso. She 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.839 was thought to have been killed about a day before 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.400 the body was discovered. Over a year past with no 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:25.400 leads until August, when a woman named Kira Hill recognized 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.320 the girl in the sketch as her cousin and reported 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.320 it to the Gary police. She said the girl was 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:35.120 fifteen year old Erika Hill from Fitchburg, Wisconsin, and d 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:39.760 n A confirmed Kars identification. That family member who identified 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.400 Erica Hill had been holding onto a terrible secret, and 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.240 it turned out Kira didn't just know the victim, she 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:50.000 knew the murderer as well. Investigators say the relative, who 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.840 does not face charges, had been fearful all of these 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.159 years of retaliation if she told, but decided she wanted 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.960 to end the pattern of abuse. Cira's mother, Taylor, adopt 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.440 did Erica in two thousand one, after Erica's grandmother, who 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.720 had been caring for Erica, passed away. Talan was a 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.800 special education teacher who had three kids of her own. 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:13.920 She had a good reputation in her neighborhood, but Kiara 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:18.760 said that behind closed doors, Talan was cruel. Kira said 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.719 her mother beat all of her children, but Erica was 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:25.400 abused more than the rest, and as the abuse escalated, 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.000 Talan withdrew her children from school, worried that teachers would 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:33.320 notice the signs of abuse. One night in February two 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.920 thousand seven, Tlan called kar at work and told her 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:40.400 to come home because of a family emergency. When Kiara 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.360 came home, her mother told her to go into the bathroom, 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:47.320 but wouldn't tell her why. Kiarra saw Erica lying on 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:51.880 the floor. Her skin looked gray. Talan had shoved a 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.799 rag deep into Erica's mouth, and she'd ended up making 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:59.600 Erica choked to death. According to Kiara, her mother told 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.440 the kid to put Erica into a black garbage bag 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.520 and take her to the garage. Kia said that she 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.440 and the other siblings were terrified of their mother, so 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:12.360 they complied out of fear. They left Erica's body in 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.360 the garage until it started to smell A few days later. 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:19.480 Then Taylan had her children load Erica's body into their 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:24.720 van and they drove from Wisconsin down to Chicago. Taylan 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.800 left Erica's body under a highway overpass. She set fire 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.400 to the body and pulled out some of Erica's teeth 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:35.000 to try to make the body harder to identify, and 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:39.600 then the family returned to Wisconsin, but Taylan started having 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:45.160 second thoughts. Allegedly, Taylan began worrying that an elderly person 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.160 might stumble upon Erica's remains and have a heart attack, 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:52.880 so they drove back to Chicago, picked up Erica's charred body, 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:55.520 and took it to Gary, where they left the body 0:07:55.600 --> 0:08:00.080 inside an abandoned garage. Kara said that if any and 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.200 asked about Erica, their mother would say Erica had moved 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.400 to live with another family member in Illinois. She was 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:12.960 never reported missing. The incident haunted Chiara, and years later, 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.880 after she'd moved out of her abusive mother's house and 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.360 begun going to therapy. She finally gained the courage to 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:24.280 confront what had happened, and in she came across the 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:28.200 newly commissioned facial reconstructions of Erica, and she reached out 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:32.320 to the Gary police. The new details led investigators to 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:36.440 charge Hill with multiple counts of abuse and first degree murder. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.480 The police were able to verify much of Kira's story, 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.600 and Taylor ended up being convicted for the murder and 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:48.320 sentenced to twenty years in prison. I told Hargrove about 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:52.240 Erica and how she was killed. To me that that's 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.679 an example of the challenge of this, right, some of 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:58.280 the data is just going to be stuff like that 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:03.160 that an algorithm can never make that connection. No algorithm 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.840 is going to be perfect, and no computer is really 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:10.560 going to do the work of of police. I mean, 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:14.040 it's in the end, it's hard work to solve these Boy, 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:18.200 this is a strange case. So in two thousand seven, 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.720 Gary was famous enough that if you have to get 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:22.880 rid of a body, you know to go there, even 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:27.360 if you're two states away. That's crazy, Like they don't 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:29.960 have enough trouble. But this is the place to drop 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:45.720 your bodies. Erica clearly wasn't a victim of Darren Vaughan 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.480 or another Gary serial killer, but her case shows how 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:52.840 hard it can be to solve these cold cases. Even 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:55.920 once a body is discovered, it can be almost impossible 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:59.480 to know when and where a victim was killed. As 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.400 I continue you going through Hargrove's list and reading old 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.439 newspaper articles, it felt to me like the murders fell 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:09.120 into two categories. There were murders where the information was 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.680 extremely scarce, where he sometimes couldn't find a single article 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:16.400 about the homicide. And then there were others with more details, 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.040 details that have been published because police had eventually identified 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:23.120 a suspect and information about the murderer had come out 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:27.400 in court. For example, the very first murder on Hargrove's list, 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:33.000 Suzanne Router, Hargrove's letter said that Suzanne Router was found 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:38.080 on November. She was found stuffed into bags on a 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:42.280 back porch and she'd been strangled. Darren Vaughan would have 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.280 been about twenty years old when this took place, and 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.560 this would have been before he joined the Marines and 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:52.280 left the area. I found a newspaper article about Router's death. 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.560 She was a secretary who disappeared just before Thanksgiving in 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.360 She was later found dismember bird in a trash bag 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.760 outside an apartment building. But from the article, it seemed 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.600 like she wasn't found in Lake County, Indiana, but rather 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:10.520 in Chicago, and that she lived in Chicago as well, 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.640 And it looked like well the case had never been solved. 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.040 Police had made an arrest and charged someone for the crime, 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:21.920 a man named Anthony Pressley. Pressley lived in the apartment 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.840 building where Suzanne was found, and it turned out that 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.319 he knew her. According to some they were dating. Others 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.560 said he was her drug dealer. Regardless, he became the 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.360 prime suspect in the case, and he was eventually charged 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:37.480 with the crime. But I was confused, why was this 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.120 case on Hargrow's list in the first place if her 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:44.000 body wasn't found in Lake County, Indiana. I reached out 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:47.640 to Pressley's lawyer, Richard Kling, to see if the case 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.640 was somehow connected to Lake County. When I emailed you, 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.360 you know, I wasn't sure if you'd remember the case 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:55.960 at all. It's almost thirty years old at this point, 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.760 what what makes this case stand out to you? You know, 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:04.760 I have tried over five cases. Um, there are some 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.360 cases that stick in your mind, and this was a 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.360 case that stuck in my mind because Number one, we 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:11.760 had we had a good defense to the forensic evidence, 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.080 if you can call it forensic evidence. And first of all, 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:15.720 let me tell you that what we will talk about 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.200 is not at all based on attorney client privileged issue. 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.480 It's all based on my observations and what I know 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.400 about the case from from the case, not from words 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.080 of Mr Presley. I was appointed to represent him. He 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.600 was charged with murder of his girlfriend who was found 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.840 on the back porch and a body back, and his 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:38.480 defense was that he had been dealing drugs and that 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.320 he owed the person he was dealing with a lot 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.920 of money. The person came and essentially told him, if 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:47.880 you don't pay up, something's going to happen. And the 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.000 next day is when his girlfriend was found in a 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:53.760 body back. So I don't think it has anything to 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:55.800 do with in the serial killer. It was once in 0:12:55.840 --> 0:13:00.480 a lifetime thing. The Chicago Police Department aim that they've 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.680 done a hair analysis that linked Pressley to the murder. 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.000 There was a hair which was found in the body bag, 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:08.400 or a couple of hairs on the back of the 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.800 body begs under the tape, and they were examined by 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.480 the Chicago Police Department, and in the opinion of the 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:18.199 Chicago Police Departments here analysis he came to the conclusion 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.800 that the hair on the body bag was morphologically similar 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:26.760 to the hair of the defendant. At the time, DNA 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:31.200 didn't exist. The only benefit of the hair evidence was 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.600 that under a microscope you can morphologically tell the difference 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:38.719 between Caucasian had hair, Nigroid head hair, and mono head hair. 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.679 They have different textures, different components inside, and you can 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.280 definitely tell the difference. Today, the follicles from those hairs 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.480 might be tested for DNA that could either conclusively link 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.920 the hair suppressley or show that they belonged to someone else. 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.680 But at the time the hairs were just examined under 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.600 a microscope, and this hair analysis could only reliably determine 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.559 the ray of the person the hairs had come from. 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.960 My cross was very simple. My cross to the hair 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:10.440 examiner was, when you say it's morphologically similar, that's because 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.440 you know it came from an African American. Is that right? Yes? 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.280 It is. In fact, the head hair is morphologically similar 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.520 to the two front jurors, is it not, Yes, it is, 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.480 And it was morphologically similar to the head hair of 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:28.280 the judge, isn't it? Yes, it is, no further question, 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.840 and that that was essentially the case that that blew 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:34.960 apart their case. The only thing they had really was 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.120 the head hair and the body on the back of 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.360 his porch. It's not good to find your girlfriend's body 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:41.520 on the back of your porch. But he had an 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.480 explanation as to why she was there, and it was 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:46.560 assigned by the person to go old money too that 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:48.840 you don't pay up, this is what's going to happen. 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.360 I think that was a good summary of the whole story. 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:55.560 So I came across this case in you know, what 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.320 I thought was a list of all crimes that had 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:02.760 happened in Wake County, Indiana, and then this is actually 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:06.680 like a case in Chicago. Do you know if any 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.080 police from Wake County, Indiana or something like that would 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.960 have been involved, or if there's some connection where it 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.880 would have ended up in a database. No, they would 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.240 not have, and to my knowledge they were not. To 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:21.560 my knowledge, it was strictly a body phone on the 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.480 back of a Portugal County They had the guy who 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:25.360 they believed was responsible, and that was the end of 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.320 the investigation. You know, whether it was tunnel vision. On 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.600 the other hand, it's a it's a pretty clear tunnel 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:32.600 when a dead body is fumed on your back porch 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:37.720 and there's a relationship between the defendant and the Yeah, 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:42.080 so I don't think Indiana was ever involved. I asked 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.880 Hargrove if he knew how a Chicago case had ended 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.720 up on the list. I started looking into Susanne Router. 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:54.920 It looks like she was actually murdered in Chicago, Illinois. Yes, yes, 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.160 just over the line. Okay, And so is that you 0:15:58.200 --> 0:15:59.880 know it was a case when you're looking at this 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:04.880 Chicago metropolitan area, you identified that one and felt like 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.160 it fit in with the other cluster. Oh. In fact, 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.280 I think she was originally coded in Lake County and 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:13.960 it was a mistake. Okay. Um, so no, I think 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.880 it was a miscoding originally, although um, she does look 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.280 like part of the pattern. I was surprised to hear 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.280 Hargrove say that, because from what I've learned to me, 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.240 it didn't seem like she was part of the pattern. 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.520 Then that's one where when you look into it, her 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.760 body was found in the trash can of this guy 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.560 who was either her boyfriend or her drug dealer, or 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:40.000 maybe both. I think the fact that Router's body had 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.600 shown up in the trash can of one of her acquaintances, 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:44.800 it was just too much of a coincidence for it 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.720 to have been a random murder conducted by a serial killer. 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.000 And as they looked into it more, I'm not sure 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.680 about hargroves explanation for how she showed up on his list. 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:57.680 I don't think an error was made in the coding 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.920 of Router's death because there's another unsolved strangulation case and 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:06.199 Gary for the same year, Santina Williams, a thirty one 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.399 year old black woman who has found hung in the 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:13.880 bathroom at Gary Street and Gary. I can see how 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:17.760 police investigating Hargrove's list might have dismissed it when the 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.239 very first murderer is actually in Chicago and police had 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.560 identified a strong suspect in the case. But you have 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.280 to remember Hargreave was working with anonymized data. He was 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.440 trying to link cases from newspaper articles to the cases 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.280 from the algorithm himself from halfway across the country because 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:39.320 the police refused to talk to him. Also, Hargrove had 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.560 never claimed that every murder identified with the algorithm was 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.720 the work of a serial killer, just that he'd identified 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.600 a type of murder where an unusual number of killings 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.320 had gone unsolved, and that therefore these murders were more 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:54.959 likely to have been done by a serial killer and 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:59.240 should be given extra scrutiny. But while routers killing in 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:04.080 Chicago was likely unconnected to Van, Interestingly, Chicago has his 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.919 own cluster of strangulations that the algorithm identified, and in 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:12.560 his interrogation, Von claimed Chicago was where he went to kill. 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:17.560 Illinois probably had a whole lot of They had more 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:38.800 in India. They have way more in India. The first 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:41.600 time I spoke to Hargrove, I mentioned that police had 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:45.359 monitored Von's cell phone shortly after he'd murdered Africa and 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.760 they saw he traveled into South Chicago. Well, there are 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.239 plenty of unsolved maybe he had something to do with 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.920 some of those. Sources told the Chicago Sometimes that after 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.800 murdering Africa, Von had spent more than twelve hours driving 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.840 through the South suburbs of Chicago, and police in the 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:06.160 neighborhoods of Harvey, Markham and Hazel Crest searched twenty six 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:10.720 abandoned homes with a cadaver dog. Hargrove hadn't heard about 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.080 Bond's connection to Chicago, but he said he was interested 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:18.120 in a cluster of over fifty strangulations there. We are 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:21.320 convinced that there's a there are active, more than one 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:25.720 serial killers working the South and West sides of Chicago. 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:31.240 They've all been strangled, almost always sexually disrobed in some way, 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.800 and a great many of them put into trash cans. 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.800 I don't think we're done knowing all of the people 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.520 that Mr. Van killed. You're the first to tell me 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.560 that he had been hanging around Chicago. Do you know 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:46.720 what parts of Chicago? Because if you go to the 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.440 map we've done of the Chicago murders, there's a very 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:55.919 odd element. There is a linear pattern on many of 0:19:55.960 --> 0:20:00.280 the South Side murders which happens to exactly conform to 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:06.440 the Chicago Transit green line. Um. We've told the Chicago 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.360 police that We've told them we're sure it's not a coincidence, 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.399 but we don't know what it means it could be 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.560 that the killer is using mass transit. It could also 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:22.680 mean that, um, it's a hooker walk under the elevated trains. 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:26.480 That's that's possible too. So we don't know if it's 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.199 an indicator of the m O of the killer or 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:34.000 just where the targets are easily available. We don't know, 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:38.480 but I'm pretty sure it ain't a coincidence. The linearity 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:43.320 of the pattern is striking. When I talk to Hargrove 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:46.920 again about Vond's confessions, I wanted to tell him specifically 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:50.840 about what von had mentioned about murders in Illinois. I 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:56.800 call it the states your rageous they are still don't 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:00.280 go right. I'll look, we're out. Are you try to 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:04.280 go to Illinoise where I have my guns? But if 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.720 I don't have a way to get there or like 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.119 right now and watching my soups the kids. So if 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:12.600 I get upset, I can't just leave up on sketching. 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.000 You know what I'm saying, and the schedule compressed, that's 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:17.919 how to do that. What does that calls you go 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:22.240 into a range flash year is brutly pan. I can't work. 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:24.760 I'm going to get my idea. Wont to give my 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:29.320 idea just so much. I'm just like I'm tired. Doesn't 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.360 do anything for you. I want to say release is pressure, 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.800 because really I just rather tell me how crazy got 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:37.400 time all the times? Just want to walk and something 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:41.280 to blow everything up. I guess what I'm asking, how 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:45.760 do you connect the rage with these people that they're right? All? 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:48.040 It does take your wrong person to say something or 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:52.280 triggers something from my past. That's why I really can't 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:55.400 give the Illinoise because Illinois probably has a whole lot 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:58.480 of they have more in the Indian Let's say that 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.560 they away more in India. Vaughn said that he killed 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:06.800 more in Illinois than he had in Indiana. And remember 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:09.119 what her Grove had said about the murderers along the 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.480 train line. Here's what Von told detectives when they asked 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.800 him where he'd stay in Chicago. What were you saying 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:17.920 that over there? I don't have the stage where he 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:21.960 was just I just I get on the train. But 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:26.639 I was like, I know a move. I'm trying to 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:30.520 get far away from my family, myself, myself living. Yes, 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.040 he said there that when he felt himself slipping into 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.399 a murder rage, he'd go to Chicago. Because he liked 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:40.960 to keep his murders far away from his family. But 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:45.320 a few days later, in another interrogation, Vaughn changed his story. 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:50.120 He repeated that he killed many how many in Chicago? 0:22:53.960 --> 0:23:00.280 At how many do you recall in Chicago? I ain't 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:03.240 know for a fact, at least killed maybe over a dozen, 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:07.840 over a dozen of Chicago right. But this time he 0:23:07.920 --> 0:23:12.440 says that these Chicago killings weren't part of his murder rages. Instead, 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.160 he says that all of the Chicago killings were gang 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:18.280 related and that they've taken place in the nineties, in 0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:23.440 early two thousand's. Chicago has a lot because that's where 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:27.920 of gangs. Vain Chica the first time we Chica about 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:32.040 you know, lamon with the deed so obvious. In fact, 0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:36.720 I love my virginity in Chicago. So as a long 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:43.280 time how many of Marko I'm kills more army rue 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:49.680 children hart China City? One? How long ago? If it 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.919 was more our early nineties? So I stayed too long? 0:23:54.040 --> 0:23:58.920 After I go now into the service, I'm sorry traveling okay? 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:04.240 And these would be uh, males and females all e mails, 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:09.040 all these are all males, all just all gang relates. 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:17.560 They were all these demos between one years eighty nine 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:23.440 two thousand, in or towards the end of the final 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:27.480 interrogation Forda spawn if he'd ever confess to murders in 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:31.240 other states? Did you think that will ever find any 0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:34.359 of the murders you did in other states? I doubt it. 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:36.920 I know what I'm gonna say, y'all won't find and 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:40.360