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Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. I'm fond of Jeff Bezos is regret minimization

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Speaker 1: framework of life. It's very simple, and I think we

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Speaker 1: all need simple heuristics at those critical moments in life,

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Speaker 1: and his is simply this, Well, I regret not having

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Speaker 1: done it when I'm eighty years old, and if the

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Speaker 1: answer is yes, he does it, and if the answer

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Speaker 1: is no, he doesn't. For me, the thought of not

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Speaker 1: moving forward was way more painful than the thought of

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Speaker 1: striking out on my own, and that motivated me to

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Speaker 1: jump in. I am Bob Pittman, and welcome to this

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Speaker 1: episode of Math and Match Stories from the frontiers and

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Speaker 1: marketing Today. We have a guest who has a number

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Speaker 1: of important lessons to share. Lessons about the power of

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Speaker 1: a vision, of a conviction, taking risk, thinking big even

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Speaker 1: when you're small, betting at all, when you have the shop,

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Speaker 1: believing in a vision, but adjusting when needed. Listen hard,

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Speaker 1: think smart. He's an entrepreneur, an investor, a thinker, a

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Speaker 1: thoughtful philanthropist and social engineer bridge builder. He heads his

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Speaker 1: own firm, Altimeter, with twenty billion under management, and is

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Speaker 1: in the middle of SPACs, Fun, Snowflake, the Board Challenge,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. He's brag Gershner. Brad grew up in a

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Speaker 1: small town in Indiana. Smart kid in a small environment,

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Speaker 1: but that small environment did not limit him. College junior

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Speaker 1: year to Oxford Law School, lawyer, Deputy Secretary of State

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Speaker 1: of Indiana. Then got off the government path and got

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Speaker 1: his NBA from the Harvard Business School, one of the

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Speaker 1: early folks at the now giant venture capital General Catalyst,

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Speaker 1: and ran some companies, sold them, invested for others, and

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Speaker 1: then started his own fund in one of the boldest

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Speaker 1: and riskiest ways I've ever seen. He's wildly successful in

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Speaker 1: business and gives that same time and attention and innovation

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Speaker 1: to making our society and world better too. He's wildly curious, fun,

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Speaker 1: a surfer, traveler, a good friend and Instagram seven, and

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Speaker 1: even a board member at I heart to welcome Brad.

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Speaker 1: That's the best introduction I've ever had in my life. Bob.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. We've got a lot to dig into today,

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Speaker 1: but before we get started, I want to explore you.

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Speaker 1: In sixty seconds. Ready, let's do it. Do you prefer

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Speaker 1: Indiana or California? California, Boston or Silicon Valley, Silicon Valley,

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Speaker 1: Facebook or TikTok Facebook, salty or sweet salty, I p

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Speaker 1: o or spack, Altimeter, coffee or tea coffee, Law school

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Speaker 1: or business school, business school, boat or plane, plane, window

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Speaker 1: or aisle, file, chocolate or vanilla chocolate, cats or dogs, dogs,

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Speaker 1: dollar or bitcoin dollar, rent or own rent, Apple pie

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Speaker 1: or Apple computer, Apple computer, It's about to get harder.

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Speaker 1: Childhood hero Warren, Buffet technology, you can't live without iPhone?

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Speaker 1: Favorite app Twitter, Most memorable place you've traveled to Nepal.

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Speaker 1: First shop, chief of staff to the founder of Forest River,

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Speaker 1: which ultimately sold the Berkshire Halfway, preferred beverage ve no

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Speaker 1: favorite food, fresh fish, favorite city New York? And the

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Speaker 1: final question, what did you want to be when you're

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Speaker 1: growing up an entrepreneur? Okay, let's get started to set

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Speaker 1: the stage for how vision, conviction and or hard work

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Speaker 1: or at the core of what you do. I want

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Speaker 1: to go back to the founding of Altimeter. Although we

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Speaker 1: weren't really close friends then, we were close enough that

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Speaker 1: I saw the story. It's one of the most inspiring

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Speaker 1: origin stories ever. So let me paint the picture a

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Speaker 1: little bit. It was two thousand and eight you decided

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Speaker 1: to leave a great role at Park Capital and strike

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Speaker 1: out on your own. You had an impressive track record

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Speaker 1: as an investor and had lined up some two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty million for your first fund. Then Lehman Brothers

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Speaker 1: goes bankrupt and all but three million of that to

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Speaker 1: fifty backs out, And clearly a three million dollar fund

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Speaker 1: is almost not a fund. You'll have to live in

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Speaker 1: your savings, You'll have to sell everything you have. It'll

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Speaker 1: be a struggle, and getting back to two fifty million

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Speaker 1: is almost impossible. But at that moment, who knew if

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Speaker 1: the world was coming to an end? And yet here's

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Speaker 1: the classic. You, even though you had a young family

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Speaker 1: to support and you had a lot of high paying

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Speaker 1: jobs as other options, you started Altimeter anyway with just

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Speaker 1: three million. Why on earth would you do that? Well?

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Speaker 1: First you were there, and I might not have done

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Speaker 1: it without you, So thank you. I'm fond of Jeff

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Speaker 1: Bezos is regret minimization framework of life. It's very very simple,

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Speaker 1: and I think we all need simple heuristics at those

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Speaker 1: critical moments in life, and his is simply this, will

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Speaker 1: I regret not having done it when I'm eighty years

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Speaker 1: old and if the answer is yes, he does it,

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Speaker 1: and if the answer is no, he doesn't. And I

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Speaker 1: would say I didn't know I was using that framework,

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Speaker 1: but I was. And for me, the thought of not

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Speaker 1: moving forward was way more painful than the thought of

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Speaker 1: striking out on my own. And I suppose a little

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Speaker 1: over confidence and the fact that I had designed my

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Speaker 1: life in a way that didn't require a lot of

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Speaker 1: resource helped. But it was really that idea that if

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Speaker 1: I didn't do this, I would regret it, and that

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Speaker 1: motivated me to jump in. So what is this say

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Speaker 1: about conviction and about a vision? Lots of people have

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Speaker 1: visions of things, products that could improve the world, companies

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Speaker 1: they might want to start, et cetera. The execution is difficult,

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Speaker 1: and the execution is predicated on deep conviction. I had

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Speaker 1: spent a decade preparing for that moment. I had helped

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Speaker 1: start General Catalyst, I had started and sold three other companies.

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Speaker 1: I had been in law school, I had practiced law,

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Speaker 1: and as you mentioned, I'm curious. I'm a student of

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Speaker 1: the game. We made our first trade on November one,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, and I had studied people who

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of respect for Seth Klarman at

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Speaker 1: balt Post who had started in the recession of Night one,

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Speaker 1: or Paul Reader, my mentor from Park Capital, who had

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Speaker 1: started with a similar amount of capital in nine in

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Speaker 1: the SNL crisis and his first investment was into an SNL.

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Speaker 1: Or even you take somebody like Tiger Global and Chase

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Speaker 1: who started in two thousand right after the dot com

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Speaker 1: blow up. So there was plenty of examples in my

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Speaker 1: world of folks who started small during periods of durest,

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Speaker 1: driven by deep conviction in their own capabilities. And so

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Speaker 1: for me, it seems from the outside looking in like

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Speaker 1: I was crazy, but it made perfect sense to me.

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Speaker 1: What did your prism look like? How did it change

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Speaker 1: after this collapse of Lehman Brothers, Because clearly you put

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Speaker 1: the whole plan together before the collapse. Did you change

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Speaker 1: the vision? Well, I have to say I was scared.

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Speaker 1: I had just gotten married ten months earlier. I had

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Speaker 1: just had my first child, Lincoln. We're renting a small

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Speaker 1: basement apartment, which you remember in Boston. Michelle believed in me,

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Speaker 1: but was none too happy about the idea that I

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Speaker 1: walked away from great paying jobs with this young family

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Speaker 1: to do this and I couldn't answer the question definitively

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Speaker 1: as to how long this would last or whether the

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Speaker 1: world really would end. I had set up a small

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Speaker 1: advisory board, and I remember a couple of the people

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Speaker 1: on that advisory board said, you're crazy. Don't do this,

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Speaker 1: go back and get your job. And I had started

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Speaker 1: three other companies, and every time I had started those

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Speaker 1: other companies, it was just a sketch on the back

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Speaker 1: of a napkin. And I was by myself, and so

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Speaker 1: to me, I was familiar with that moment, the founding moment.

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Speaker 1: I had deep conviction in my capabilities, and I'm an optimist.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think the world was going to end. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't sure what was going to happen, but I thought

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Speaker 1: if it did end, this would make a good story

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Speaker 1: to my ending. So this is a recurring thing, but

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Speaker 1: this was one of the best examples of you thinking

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Speaker 1: big when you were really small. How did you get

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Speaker 1: yourself to think big enough? Well, if I really rewind

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Speaker 1: the clock, my dad was a dreamer, first child to

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Speaker 1: go to college, and he ran a small business in

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Speaker 1: a small town that made auto parts in the late eighties,

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Speaker 1: and an acquirer came along and the acquirer said, we

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Speaker 1: want to buy this company, and my dad said, well,

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Speaker 1: everybody in the town works here, and so I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to allow the company to be acquired unless you

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Speaker 1: agree not to lay off the men and women who

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Speaker 1: work here and not to cut their pay. And of

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Speaker 1: course the acquirer agreed to do that, and six months

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Speaker 1: later they renegged on their promise. They fired people, They

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Speaker 1: cut people's pay. In the middle of one of the

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Speaker 1: worst recessions in our country's history. Interest rates were eighteen percent,

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Speaker 1: inflation was fifteen percent. It was a dark time, and

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Speaker 1: my dad was devastated. You know, in a small town,

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Speaker 1: your word is your bond. He had given his word

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Speaker 1: to these people. And so I watched my dad rally

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Speaker 1: those troops and say we're gonna go start a competitor,

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Speaker 1: and everybody followed him. And it was an insane thing

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Speaker 1: for him to do. He was starting an auto parts business.

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Speaker 1: There was not such a thing as venture capital. He

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Speaker 1: borrowed money from the local town bank. He mortgaged our house,

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Speaker 1: put the house up as collateral, the car up as collateral.

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Speaker 1: Everything is collateral. And in the middle of a recession,

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Speaker 1: in the middle of those interest rates, and the Japanese

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Speaker 1: gutting our car industry, and he tried to make it work,

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Speaker 1: and he ultimately went bankrupt because the world conspired against him.

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Speaker 1: But I watched that noble fight and it was heroic,

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Speaker 1: and I was in a late elementary school, early middle school,

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Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, you know, someday I'm going

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Speaker 1: to complete that journey. I went to law school because

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Speaker 1: my grandfather said us kids, none of you are allowed

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Speaker 1: to be entrepreneurs. You all have to be doctors or

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Speaker 1: lawyers or architects. So I honored him. I went to

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Speaker 1: law school, but I always knew in the back of

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Speaker 1: my mind that I was fit to live out that dream.

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Speaker 1: This really is an interesting theme which I want to

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Speaker 1: go through a bit. You've built everything you've got in

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Speaker 1: very interesting ways, and we want to get into your insights,

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Speaker 1: lessons philosophies on everything from business to philanthropy and social action.

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Speaker 1: But let's stick with the childhood era. You were born

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, grew up in Syracuse, Indiana, three siblings.

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Speaker 1: You talked a little bit about your dad, but can

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Speaker 1: you paint the picture of that place and that time

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Speaker 1: of the seventies and eighties what it felt like and

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Speaker 1: how that might have shaped you. Uh, it's a great question.

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Speaker 1: The place. It's a town that was three thousand people

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Speaker 1: in the winter and twenty five thousand people in the summer.

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Speaker 1: It's near the border with Michigan, and as one of

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Speaker 1: the most beautiful natural lakes in the country that I

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Speaker 1: grew up near, and so families from Chicago and Indianapolis

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Speaker 1: that were pretty wealthy would come to the lake in

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Speaker 1: the summertime. In fact, Eli Lilly famously made the lake

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Speaker 1: his summer retreat and had a giant estate there. So

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Speaker 1: I had this window into this world of business and

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Speaker 1: success that I wouldn't have naturally gotten from a small

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Speaker 1: farm town in Indiana. My family had no money, but

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Speaker 1: I never missed money. I thought I had everything. I

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Speaker 1: grew up on the water and racing sailboats and skiing

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Speaker 1: on a small icy hill in the wintertimes, and so

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Speaker 1: there was never a sense that we didn't belong or

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Speaker 1: we were lesser than. But to be clear, they were

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Speaker 1: hard economic times. It was hard on my family. It

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Speaker 1: was hard on my mother, who worked two jobs. But

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Speaker 1: I was deeply observant of what was going on in

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Speaker 1: the world because of this window of my dad's experience.

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Speaker 1: So I was worried about the United States, right like

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Speaker 1: most kids growing up at that point in time, you're

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Speaker 1: worried about an actual war with the Soviet Union. I

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Speaker 1: was worried economically for the country. And so the eighties

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Speaker 1: for me, which was middle school through college, was just

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Speaker 1: a transformational time. You were a smart kid. But how

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Speaker 1: was that nurtured and developed in a small town like

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Speaker 1: this picture you're painting. Well. First, I was the youngest

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Speaker 1: of four. My oldest brothers fifteen years older than me.

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Speaker 1: I had really smart siblings. I had a grandfather on

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Speaker 1: my father's side who was patriarch of the clan, you know,

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Speaker 1: on his bookcase where physics textbooks and biology and texts

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Speaker 1: on politics, and he was all self studied. He couldn't

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Speaker 1: afford to go to school. So study and conversation and

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Speaker 1: debate that was just part of our family. And nobody

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Speaker 1: was taking it easy on the youngest kid around the table.

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Speaker 1: And so I ended up a national debater and state

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Speaker 1: debate him it. But I'll tell you I got really lucky, Bob.

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Speaker 1: The public schools in Indiana, the small rural public school

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Speaker 1: is pretty damn good. I had great teachers in Indiana.

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Speaker 1: At that period of time, there was a push to

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Speaker 1: set up in the public school system gifted in the

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Speaker 1: Talented program, and this would ultimately go on to be

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Speaker 1: politically controversial at a national level. Is it right to

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Speaker 1: pull certain kids out or not? And so I'm not

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Speaker 1: on one side or the other. I'm just giving you

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Speaker 1: one person's experience. So in the third grade, they pulled

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Speaker 1: four of us out of the classrooms one day a week,

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Speaker 1: and they assigned us a Gift in Talented teacher named

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Speaker 1: Connie Bailey, and she ultimately became not just a teacher,

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Speaker 1: but a life coach. I went through some turbulent times,

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Speaker 1: like any teenager does. My parents got divorced, and Connie

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Speaker 1: was often there to challenge me, to bail me out

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Speaker 1: and to make sure that I was thinking big enough.

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Speaker 1: You went to Oxford your junior year, you graduated from

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Speaker 1: law school, You went on to be Deputy Secretary of

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Speaker 1: State in Indiana. Clearly you had aspirations to be in politics,

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Speaker 1: and then you went to the Harvard Business School. What

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Speaker 1: happened to the politics. I was always interested in what

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Speaker 1: was going on politically in the world. I thought politics

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Speaker 1: was a lot of the reason that my dad's business collapsed.

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Speaker 1: And so when I came back from Oxford, our senator,

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Speaker 1: great Senator for the state of Indiana, Dick Luger, who

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Speaker 1: had been a Rhodes scholar, who was a very well

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Speaker 1: known moderate Republican. He and Sam Nunn, the great Democrat senator,

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Speaker 1: helped to denuclearize Russia. And I wrote him a letter

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Speaker 1: and I said, hey, I just had this experience at Oxford.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to come to Washington and work with you

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Speaker 1: on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and just learned. And

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Speaker 1: he was generous enough to give me a job, and

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Speaker 1: then he would call me a couple of years later

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Speaker 1: after I was out of law school, and he asked

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Speaker 1: me if I would accept an appointment as Deputy Secretary

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Speaker 1: of State Indiana. And that had been a stepping stone

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Speaker 1: for Evan By to become governor, and so it was

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Speaker 1: kind of known that that was a plumb assignment and

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Speaker 1: was giving you an opportunity to become governor or whatever.

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Speaker 1: The problem was. I was poor, and I hated the

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Speaker 1: idea that I was going to spend most of my

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Speaker 1: time asking people for money. I felt like I couldn't

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Speaker 1: be true to my north star if I was beholdened

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Speaker 1: by that process. And so I made a really difficult

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Speaker 1: decision to leave. And I thought to myself, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: make a million dollars and I'm gonna come back and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to run for governor. And as fate would

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Speaker 1: have it, I left, went to business school, and along

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Speaker 1: the way I concluded that I could have far more

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Speaker 1: positive impact on the world by doing exactly what I'm doing,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to going back and running for office. I

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Speaker 1: want to know if these things came from childhood, if

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Speaker 1: there were the seats in your childhood, what drove you

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Speaker 1: to be that person who can think out of the box,

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Speaker 1: take big risk, and think big even when you have

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Speaker 1: little I think they're two interrelated things. One is I'm

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Speaker 1: curious about everything. I want to know how everything works,

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Speaker 1: and I'm happy to study it. And then I like

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Speaker 1: to talk about it. I like to debate about it,

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Speaker 1: and so that's the formation of conviction, and conviction is

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Speaker 1: the basis for being able to think big or act big.

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Speaker 1: Because what appears crazy from the outside for the highly

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Speaker 1: convicted person. For Elon Musk, Tesla was not crazy. For

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk, SpaceX was not crazy. He was so convicted

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Speaker 1: that the world was going to electrify, right, that starting

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Speaker 1: a company that was going to transform the biggest industry

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Speaker 1: on the planet to electric was not crazy. And on

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Speaker 1: the second hand, it's not risky. And here's why, once

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Speaker 1: you decide that there's something more powerful in life, then

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Speaker 1: the fear of failure. Once you decide that it's not

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Speaker 1: all about the mountain of money you amass or whether

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Speaker 1: everybody loves you, but it's about doing the things that

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Speaker 1: make this a life that matters that when I look back,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to have regrets. Right, so I have

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Speaker 1: maximum conviction it doesn't appear that risky, and even if

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Speaker 1: it is, it doesn't matter because the very pursuit, the

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Speaker 1: very adventure, is why we're here. And so those two

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Speaker 1: intersecting beliefs I think really formed the foundation. So you

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Speaker 1: finished Harvard Business School, coming out of the background you

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Speaker 1: do wouldn't naturally say you're going to go to tech,

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Speaker 1: but yet you were one of the founding group at

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Speaker 1: General Catalyst. What drove you to tech? What was the path?

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Speaker 1: In an ap English teacher named Joel Robbins. He was

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Speaker 1: a great teacher, and I was so blessed with so

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Speaker 1: many great teachers. But I remember Joel said that we

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Speaker 1: had to write our high school papers using this service

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Speaker 1: I had never heard of, called CompuServe, and I got

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Speaker 1: fascinated with this private computer network where I could communicate

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Speaker 1: with others and I could discover other information. Well, fast forward,

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Speaker 1: I go away to law school and I encountered the

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Speaker 1: Netscape browser, and I remember gathering my friends from law

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Speaker 1: school around the computer terminal. I'm telling them this changes everything,

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Speaker 1: and they all looked at me and said I was nuts.

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Speaker 1: And I graduated from law school in and I couldn't

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Speaker 1: very well find my way to Silicon Valley. But I

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Speaker 1: went back to this big law firm in Indianapolis. I

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Speaker 1: was the only person in the joint that knew anything

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Speaker 1: about the Internet. So they said, you're our Internet guy

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Speaker 1: and our ventor capital guy, which, trust me, in Indianapolis

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Speaker 1: in didn't mean a whole hell of a lot. But

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Speaker 1: I got exposed to all of these software on rerepreneurs

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Speaker 1: Internet entrepreneurs. I got thrown on a case in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety six seven where a domain squatter had squatted on

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Speaker 1: the domain named Indianapolis dot com. And it just so

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Speaker 1: happened that we represented the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and so

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Speaker 1: I was learning some basic things about the Internet, or

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Speaker 1: as much as I could at that point in time,

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Speaker 1: and became pretty convinced by the time I went to

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Speaker 1: Harvard Business School that I had to work in Silicon Valley,

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Speaker 1: and Harvard Business School was a very different place Goldman, Sachs, Mackenzie.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't even get people to show up at the

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Speaker 1: interviews in we were all doing case studies on startups

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Speaker 1: and technology, and as working with David and Joel on

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Speaker 1: a case study to start General Catalysts and invest in

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Speaker 1: their first company that I'd ultimately become the CEO of,

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Speaker 1: And so it was just happenstance. I graduated in May

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Speaker 1: of two thousand. Michelle decided she wanted to stay in Boston.

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Speaker 1: I decided to stay in Boston and help General Catalysts

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Speaker 1: get started. And by May, pretty much the world was

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Speaker 1: already melding down. None of us knew how bad it

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Speaker 1: was about ready to become and I had the good

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Speaker 1: fortune of having chosen to be CEO of an online

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Speaker 1: travel company, and that was about the only thing that

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Speaker 1: worked or survived this period, and so Expedia immediately tried

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Speaker 1: to buy that company. We ended up in a bidding

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Speaker 1: war between Expedia and Barry Diller and his head of

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Speaker 1: M and A at the time, Dara Kasher Shay he

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Speaker 1: now runs Uber and so Rich and Dara and I

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Speaker 1: would find ourselves in May of two thousand and one

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Speaker 1: in Barry's backyard in Hollywood, wondering how the hell we

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Speaker 1: had gotten there. But we had both just sold our companies,

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Speaker 1: Rich Expedia and me n l G to USA Networks

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Speaker 1: that would become I A C. It's a pretty good story,

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Speaker 1: and I want to get into the sphase a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg actually at one point called you the online traveling

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Speaker 1: at the time a hell of a compliment. And then

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Speaker 1: you decided to go run some capital at Park Capital.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, I know because I, like a

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Speaker 1: lot of other people, tried to get you to come

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Speaker 1: run some companies I was involved with, and you decided

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Speaker 1: on this other path once again. You take this next

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Speaker 1: career path, it's quite different from what you were on.

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Speaker 1: Why that change? Well, you know, in those intervening years,

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Speaker 1: I thought I was going back to General Catalyst, but

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Speaker 1: a classmate of mine and I started another company called

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Speaker 1: open List that we had sell to a public company

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Speaker 1: in Seattle named Marchex. And then Paul, who had been

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Speaker 1: an investor in that first online company, he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think you would be great at this business. And

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Speaker 1: what was interesting to me because he wasn't running a

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Speaker 1: venture capital fund, he wasn't running just a hedge fund.

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Speaker 1: He was running a pool of capital, like Seth Klarman,

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Speaker 1: like David Abrahams in Boston, like Buffet before them. They

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Speaker 1: just invested in great companies. They didn't worry if they

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Speaker 1: were public or private. They sought them out. And I

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Speaker 1: said to Paul, the thing is, I don't really know

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Speaker 1: anything about running public money. I don't know how to

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Speaker 1: build a hedge book. I don't know the sophistication of

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Speaker 1: risk management. And Paul said, I can teach you all

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Speaker 1: of that, and I said, well, I'll do it, but

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Speaker 1: only on the deal that I work for free. Because

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Speaker 1: you're a legend. I don't know if I'm going to

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Speaker 1: bring you any value. I said. Part of the reason

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Speaker 1: I don't want you to pay me is because if

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Speaker 1: I like this, I'm coming in to study the hedge

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Speaker 1: fund business, the public investing business. And if I like it,

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Speaker 1: I'm probably going to start my own and I just

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Speaker 1: want to tell you that on day one, and if

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Speaker 1: you don't want to hire me, that's fine. And Paul said,

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Speaker 1: if I can't convince you to stay here, then hopefully

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Speaker 1: I'll invest in you and will all work out well anyway.

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Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happened. Three years later, I built

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Speaker 1: the technology practice at Park Capital. I lead the series

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Speaker 1: be venture investments and companies like Zillo, where I went

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Speaker 1: on the board. I had learned a lot about Google

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Speaker 1: and this small little company called price Line, and I said, Paul,

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Speaker 1: I just want to put all my money on those two.

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Speaker 1: Come Pannice, and he was fine with that, and so

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Speaker 1: I basically had a very concentrated public book. It was

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Speaker 1: a very essentialist approach to the business. And I ate

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Speaker 1: lunch with Paul every day. I picked his brain about

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Speaker 1: everything in the business. And he was the best mentor,

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Speaker 1: the best friend, the best co conspirator I could have

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Speaker 1: ever asked for. And I learned over the course of

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Speaker 1: two and a half years, not only did I love

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Speaker 1: the business, but I developed my own point of view

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Speaker 1: on how I would evolve that recipe and build a

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Speaker 1: firm that would focus exclusively on technologies. Well, so let's

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Speaker 1: make that jump. Then we began today talking about you

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Speaker 1: starting Altimeter, and I know it's not a simple story,

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Speaker 1: and I don't want to turn it into that. Give

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Speaker 1: us that really simple line of how you went in

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Speaker 1: just a decade from tiny too big and moving from

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Speaker 1: Boston to Silicon Valley along the way. Well, the vision

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Speaker 1: from the Star was to build the most important crossover

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Speaker 1: fund in the world based in Silicon Valley. By crossover fund,

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Speaker 1: it meant a firm that was a life cycle investor

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Speaker 1: doing both venture capital and public market investing, had a

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Speaker 1: very clear vision of what we wanted to build. And

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Speaker 1: I was lacking two things. I was lacking in two

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Speaker 1: thousand eight capital because nobody was going to give capital

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Speaker 1: to a new fund manager. I went to Morgan Stanley

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Speaker 1: and Goldman Sachs. Nobody knew if they were even going

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Speaker 1: to be in business, and so I went to UBS

430
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: and a gentleman named Mike TERESI said, listen, Brad, I

431
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: have no idea if we're going to survive, but I

432
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: like you, and so let's give it a go. And

433
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: he helped put us in business and enable our first trades.

434
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: The vision was very clear, from the start. I never

435
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: doubted for a second that we would get the capital

436
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: we needed in the fullness of time. Remember, par had

437
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,719
Speaker 1: gone from three million to well over a billion, so

438
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: I had the road map as to how the power

439
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 1: of good work could get you there. So I just

440
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: put my head down, went to work, and we delivered

441
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: great returns in those first few years. I'm gonna make

442
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 1: you uncomfortable for a minute, Brat, because I think you

443
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: have some wisdom to impart on both the business and

444
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 1: personal level. And sometimes someone becomes the thing to hit

445
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: person Taylor Swift, Lebron James, Ralph Lauren, Jackson, Pollock, Steve Jobs, Oprah,

446
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg, Martha Stewart, all the stars aligned, and the

447
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: world notices and puts them on a pedestal to be

448
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: admired and opens all the doors for them. Now, because

449
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: of your modesty, you will disagree, but I want you

450
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: to indulge me just a minute. Arguably, you have hit

451
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: an IT moment, and you have this unique moment of opportunity.

452
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: So here's the question. How do you use this unique

453
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 1: moment for your business, the good of the world, and

454
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 1: for you and your family. I certainly violently disagree with

455
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: the company you put me in, but I will say this,

456
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: there is a lot more velocity and momentum an opportunity

457
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: coming on us today than's ever come at us. And

458
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: when you set strategy or tactics in life, you have

459
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: to decide what you're not going to do, and oftentimes

460
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: that's a lot harder than thinking about the things you

461
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: are going to do. And I think a lot of

462
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: those folks that you mentioned, all the incremental opportunities that

463
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: come their way that distract them, you do them, and

464
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 1: it dilutes your own performance, your own success. And it's

465
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: that dilution and distraction that then leads to unhappiness and

466
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: you end up doing something every day that you never

467
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: really wanted to do. Right, just think of it in

468
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: a simple model where you run a small firm maybe

469
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: twenty people. You love it, it's a tight knit family,

470
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: you're growing it, you're doing excellent work, and then all

471
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the guns come out and now your

472
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: capital base goes up by ten acts. You go from

473
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: twenty people to two hundred people, and now you spend

474
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: your day managing people. You spend your day dealing with

475
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: human resource issues, with politics, with all of that stuff

476
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: rather than doing what you actually love to do, which

477
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: is meet with the world's best entrepreneurs and figure out

478
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: how to help them on their growth journey. And so

479
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: the way we've dealt with that is, first we have

480
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: a cultural north star at altimeter. It's the book essential Ism,

481
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,640
Speaker 1: the art of doing less better. It doesn't mean staying small,

482
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean refusing to innovate. It just means if

483
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 1: something is not a fast yes, then it's a quick no.

484
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: And I think that for me it probably was embedded

485
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: somewhere in my d n A. Maybe it's because you're

486
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: a simple kid from Indiana, but it is now a

487
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: dominant life philosophy for me, not just a business philosophy.

488
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: My life is predicated on friends and family and experiences

489
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: and on this journey they derive a lot of happiness

490
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: from being curious and trying to come up ways to

491
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: leave the world better than we found it. And so

492
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: the art of saying no has been a critical component

493
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: of that. When I think about how we're leveraging the

494
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: platform to do what is best, I'm incredibly excited because

495
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: I think there's a need in a post technological revolutionary

496
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: world to reconstruct the social contract right. We have massive

497
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: and growing wealth disparities in this country, and you know,

498
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 1: many people are starting to demonize capitalism. They're starting to

499
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: demonize Bill Gates. I think that capitalism has been the

500
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: greatest source for good in the world, and I think

501
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: it's important that those of us who have voiced, those

502
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: of us who have platforms of scale, use that to

503
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: architect the world that we all want to live in.

504
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: From issues of equity and equality, two issues of wealth disparity,

505
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: two issues of healthcare and education. And so we're going

506
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: to use Altimeter as an equally powerful platform to fund

507
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs who in their very daily acts are changing the world,

508
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: and to speak out about the issues and to fund

509
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: the issues that we think are critical to design in

510
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: the world we want to live in. We'll be back

511
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: with more Math and Magic with our guest Brad Gershner

512
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: after this quick break. Welcome back to Math and Magic.

513
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: Let's hear more from my conversation with Brad Gershner. So

514
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: you invest in businesses, you coach and advise execs, you

515
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: build strategies for companies and investments. Let's get into some

516
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: of your thinking. One of our folks here at I

517
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: Heeart had a view on corporate culture. Really nice articulation

518
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: which we picked up and use company wide now, is saying,

519
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: the corporate culture is the operating system for a company.

520
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: If it doesn't work well, none of the programs under

521
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: it will work well either. It's really the foundation. What

522
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: do you think is essential to any successful corporate culture,

523
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: and you've seen a lot of them. How do you

524
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: build it, how do you get buy in, how do

525
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: you fix it if it's broken? Well, the number one thing,

526
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: I think there's consistency, taking the time to know that

527
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: corporate culture is an operating system, and then lots of

528
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: different operating systems can work. Right. Google had an operating

529
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: system based upon decentralization twenty percent time, etcetera, which really

530
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,719
Speaker 1: is about empowerment and trusting the individual. But that required

531
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: a recruiting culture that was the antithesis of command and control,

532
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: but they made it work. There were probably command and

533
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: control cultures that worked. Certainly works in the military, and

534
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: so I don't endorse the idea that there's only a

535
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 1: single operating system, but I think it's essential that you

536
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: have one that everybody in the organization knows that that

537
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: culture and your mission and your values are lived every day,

538
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: that they see them reinforced every day, and that they

539
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: see the person or the people at the top living them,

540
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: not just talking them, but living them. And I think

541
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: if you do that, it leads to this really powerful

542
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: catalytic effect. And so you have to empower the team

543
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: to have an intellectual framework to be able to make

544
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: those decisions in a way consistent with the corporate culture

545
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: and values and mission without you in the room. So

546
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: I think for us, there's not a single person in

547
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: Altimats organization that wouldn't immediately say essential is M, wouldn't

548
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: tell you what it means, and couldn't apply it in

549
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: their daily exercise of their job. There also isn't a

550
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: person in Altimatis corporate culture that wouldn't tell you how

551
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: important having positive social impact is as part of the

552
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: fabric of our business. And you reinforce that in big

553
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: ways and small right. They know that I'm going to

554
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: give most of my wealth away during my lifetime and

555
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 1: we challenge others to do it. They see what we're

556
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: doing with the Board challenge, they see what we're doing

557
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: with invest America. They see what we're doing with lowest highest,

558
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: with give power etcetera. So they you living your principles.

559
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: You're not just talking your principles. Now, just give you

560
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: a small example. At the end of last year, we

561
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: had a good year, and just as a surprise on

562
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve, I sent a slack out to everybody in

563
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: the organization and I said, I would like for you

564
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: all to give ten thousand dollars away between now and

565
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: the end of the year to any organization that is

566
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: meaningful in your life in any way. Sit down with

567
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: your family on Christmas Day, involve your kids, involve your spouse,

568
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: and have a conversation and then we'll get it funded.

569
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: And the stories that came out of that, the conversations

570
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: that it lit up around the family tables, the really

571
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: meaningful things that people did that I would have never expected,

572
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: organizations that I had never heard of. But it's reinforcing

573
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: that corporate culture in a way that is again living

574
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: it through action. So let's move from corporate culture to management.

575
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: If management is about getting results through others, what are

576
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: the qualities you see and managers who do that the best?

577
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: You know, it's the job of the coach or of

578
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: the CEO. The temptation is often to jump in and

579
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: do it for people. But ultimately, you have to recruit excellence,

580
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: you have to retain excellence, you have to expect excellence,

581
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 1: and then you have to inspire excellence. And so when

582
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: I'm talking to everybody, helping them understand the mission that

583
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: we're on, and the mission is not just about making

584
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: more money for our LPs, although all of that is

585
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: important and those are all enablers, but the mission is

586
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 1: enabling entrepreneurs to do something the world needs. Whether you're

587
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 1: funding Moderna that's developing vaccines, or you're funding Zoom, which

588
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: is developing a video first infrastructure platform that connects families

589
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: and relatives in the middle of a global pandemic, it's

590
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: way more important. And so I think you have to

591
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: set that vision, you have to inspire and then, yes,

592
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: one of the tough things, whether you're coaching an NBA

593
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: team or whether you're coaching an investment firm, we make

594
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: slow decisions on the B player, the B plus player,

595
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: the B minus player, and I often say to our teams,

596
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: they can be absolutely fantastic friends, but that doesn't mean

597
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: that they're the right fit for our team. And we

598
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: have an obligation to make sure that we're assembling the

599
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: best team on the floor every day to deliver against

600
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: the promise we're making not only to our investors, but

601
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: the promise that we're making to the entrepreneurs and the

602
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: founders and the social impact we want to have on

603
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: the world. Let's talk about the idea of change sneaking

604
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: up on big companies. I look back on the blue

605
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: chips of the eighties and nineties and compare it to

606
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: today Apple, Google, Microsoft, Oracle, Amazon, Salesforce, maybe two Telco's Facebook.

607
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 1: It's all changed. Is it inevitable? The blue chips because

608
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: they have such a huge footprint, such a big infrastructure,

609
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 1: will eventually be replaced as the world changes working companies

610
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: of that size pivot. Could IBM have become Microsoft? Could

611
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: hpter Nokia have become Apple? Could Walmart have become Amazon?

612
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: For a hundred years of business school history, there was

613
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: a law of diminishing returns that was taught, this idea

614
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,479
Speaker 1: that as you get big, innovation slows down and they're

615
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 1: diminishing returns to scale. Over the last twenty years we

616
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: really started to question that orthodoxy, and there's a belief,

617
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: certainly at altimeter, that there are increasing returns to scale.

618
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: I remember when people said it was impossible, we will

619
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: never have a trillion dollar business. We have a business

620
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: today approaching to trillion. People said Microsoft was dead in

621
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 1: two thousands. Microsoft has been reborn in gaming, in cloud computing. Right,

622
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: the elephant can dance as a question, lou gersoner when

623
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: he was an IBM of no relation. So to me,

624
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: I'm a strong believer that there isn't a law of

625
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 1: physics around diminishing returns. There isn't a law of physics

626
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: around big companies. But those decisions that most big companies make,

627
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: command and control does break down. It does slow down innovation,

628
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: which is the deliberate cultural decision at Google not to

629
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: have a command and control system because they didn't want

630
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: that to happen. There. There are lots of ways to

631
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:32,280
Speaker 1: attack that problem. But I'm a believer that innovation can

632
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: and does happen at scale. If you look at the

633
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: percentage of the NASDA represented by the top seven companies

634
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: in the year two thousand and ten, and you look

635
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 1: at that same percentage of the NASDAC represented by the

636
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: top ten companies a two and twenty, I think it's

637
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: gone up by two x, which means the big companies

638
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: took an increasing share of the pie, not a decreasing

639
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: share of the pie, because Apple continued to innovate, because

640
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: Google continue to innovate. Because Amazon, rather than resting on

641
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: its laurels and saying books are good enough. You know,

642
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: two week delivery is good enough, they said, no, we're

643
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: going to deliver everything and we're gonna get it there

644
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: in hours. And along the way, we're gonna transform all

645
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: of computing from data centers and client server to a

646
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: utility in the cloud. You know, I don't think the

647
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: innovation is only the domain of venture capital in small companies.

648
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: So you've made a lot of money for you and others.

649
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: You've come a long way from your economic circumstances in Indiana.

650
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: Let's get into personal stuff. Does financial success have much

651
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: to do with personal success? Well, you know the answer

652
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: to that one. The truth is mas laws, hierarchy. There

653
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: is a basic level of safety and security we all

654
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: need as a prerequisite to be happy, and that is

655
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: economically linked. For some rich person to say, like they

656
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: did when I was growing up, money doesn't matter. Money matters,

657
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: because growing up in a house with a bankrupt dad

658
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,479
Speaker 1: and a mom working two jobs and losing the house

659
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: and losing the car sucked. It caused stress, it caused drinking,

660
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: it caused divorce. Like that's not a fun place to be.

661
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: But once you get beyond that, you sure as the

662
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: hell better figure out a definition of happiness that's not

663
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: predicated on making the next dollar, because the return on

664
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: that incremental dollar is a contribution to happiness is really low.

665
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,439
Speaker 1: And so for me, I've kept life really simple. I've

666
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: had a couple indulgences on things that are passions in

667
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: my life, but the reality is I look to other

668
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: sources for my happiness. I'm working as hard as I

669
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: have ever worked. I have three siblings who are basically retired,

670
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: and they asked me why I work. I say, because

671
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: I can have maximum impact and I love what I

672
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: do every day. And so the way in which it's

673
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: changed our lives is I don't worry for myself or

674
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: my family about basic needs, and I know any friend

675
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: in need we can help, and that makes me feel terrific.

676
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: But I also feel a deep, burning passion, desire, pressure,

677
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 1: responsibility to make the most out of the privilege the

678
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 1: universe has dropped on us. And that's not a burden

679
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: on me. It excites me every day, but it means

680
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: that you know, that really is the source of my happiness.

681
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: It's not about going and buying yachts and spending the

682
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,439
Speaker 1: whole year on vacation and doing things like this. You're

683
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: the founder of the Board Challenge. It's a movement to

684
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: improve the representation of black directors and corporate US boardrooms

685
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: by asking companies to pledge to appoint a black director

686
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: within the next year. That was done back in September.

687
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: So where did the idea come from? How's it going? Well,

688
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: you know, we live in a household and I give

689
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: a lot of credit to Michelle where issues of social

690
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: justice matter a lot. We talk about issue us and

691
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: responsibility and privilege, etcetera with the kids, and so, like

692
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: so many other people, we saw the events of Black

693
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: Lives Matter, the needless killing of far too many young

694
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: black men and women at the hands of police, and

695
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: so we decided that we would join in a peaceful

696
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: protest in Palo Alto. An inspiring day. The crowd was

697
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: everybody in the community. And as we're getting back in

698
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: the car as with the two boys, Jack and Lincoln,

699
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: and there's a poster about reparations. And Jack asked me

700
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: what reparations meant, and I said, you know, think about

701
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: the base word to repair. It's repairing past wrongs. There's

702
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: an idea that we could transfer value, we could transfer

703
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: wealth for past harms. And Jack said to me, well,

704
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 1: you know I haven't done anything bad, so why do

705
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: I have to pay? And his older brother, Lincoln said,

706
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: you know it was only twelve, so Jack, don't be

707
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: so stupid it. He said, there's four hundred years of

708
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: structural racism in this country. Somebody's got to pay. And

709
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 1: I would have never dreamed I would have been talking

710
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: to my kids this year about pandemics and viruses and

711
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: vaccines and four years of structural racism. It seems like

712
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: they're far too young to have those conversations, but we did.

713
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 1: And then Lincoln turned to me in one of those

714
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: moments and said, Dad, what are you going to do

715
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: about this? And it just rattled in my head and so,

716
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: as you know, Bob, I had a simple idea. I

717
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:39,959
Speaker 1: was on a couple of boards and said, well, maybe

718
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: I should resign from those boards and asked those boards

719
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: to replace me with a black director. And then I

720
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: talked to a good friend, Tony West, encouraged me to

721
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 1: think bigger. He said, you know, you have voice, you

722
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: have standing, You're an owner, you're an investor. What can

723
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: you do? And so before we knew it, we had

724
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: forty people around the tab able and volunteers and CNBC

725
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: who wanted to help us launch this. And today we

726
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: have over seventy companies who took the pledge, you know,

727
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: from Salesforce to United Airlines, from Starbucks to Altimeter and

728
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: it's just incredible to see. Right, this is not a

729
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: talent problem. It's not a pipeline problem. It's a matter

730
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: of priority. It's a matter of creativity and the board challenge,

731
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: while it's focused in its first year on a black director,

732
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: is about all diversity in the boardroom. Right. We don't

733
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 1: have enough Hispanics in the boardroom. We don't have enough

734
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: women in the boardroom. You'll see this movement continuing to

735
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: expand the play we called in two thousand and twenty one,

736
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: there are nearly a hundred SMP five hundred companies a

737
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: hundred that don't have a black director. In the year

738
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: two thousand and twenty one, a hundred out of five

739
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: hundred DARVA black director and so I'm going to c

740
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: e O s across America and I'm asking them to

741
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: adopt two or three companies in the SMP five hundred

742
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 1: and helped to close the gap. I think within a year,

743
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 1: every SMP five company could have a black director and

744
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: we will have totally eliminated that gap. That doesn't solve

745
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: all the problems of racial inequities or inequality. It doesn't

746
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 1: solve the wealth gap, but it is a step in

747
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 1: the right direction. And I could turn to Lincoln and

748
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: when he said what are you gonna do about I said,

749
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: this is what we're doing about it. You're a burner

750
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,360
Speaker 1: and you're part of that burning Man culture year round.

751
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: What does it do for you? What do you get

752
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: out of it? Well, I have you to thank for

753
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: introducing me to Bernie Man, well over a decade ago.

754
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: At this point, what I get out of it has

755
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: very little resemblance to what most people think. Bernie Man

756
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: is right. Most people will talk about the raids, the parties,

757
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: the late nights. Bernie Man is a way of thinking.

758
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 1: And there's a reason a lot of people in Silicon

759
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: Valley ended up at Burnie Man. There's a reason that

760
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: Larry Page and Sergey Brand, the founders of Google, famously

761
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: one of the criteria, and hiring Eric Schmidt as he

762
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: had been the burning Man. Right. There are these principles

763
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: of burning Man that guide the conduct of Bernie Man.

764
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: The most important one to me, and it's one I've

765
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: had to learn and one I really try to practice daily,

766
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: is no judgment. I think judgmentalism is like one of

767
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: the basest of human qualities, and it happens every day

768
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,399
Speaker 1: all around us. And part of the reason we're all

769
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: judgmental is because it makes us feel better in our

770
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: own insecurities. And so when we restrain ourselves from making judgment,

771
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 1: we open our minds to the possible. And that gave

772
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 1: rise to this incredible art installation, right that's not coordinated

773
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,839
Speaker 1: from the top, but this beautiful, bottoms up creation of

774
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: seventy person city in the middle of a desert with

775
00:45:55,160 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: extraordinary art that reminds you if this is possible, anything's possible.

776
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's one of the things that connects the

777
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: dot between Ellen's out of Bernie Man, Ellen taking people

778
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: to Mars right, saving the planet through electrification. It requires

779
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: the suspension of judgment. It requires the suspension of dogmas.

780
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: It requires open mindedness, and so for me, it's a

781
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: profoundly important part of how I try to think and

782
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: set my compass. Every day, I miss it desperately and

783
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: hope that the community can be back out there in

784
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: two thousand and twenty one. What advice would you give

785
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: your fifteen year old self and your year old self

786
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: if you could. I just give great gratitude in my

787
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: heart that I have the time to learn every day,

788
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: and I challenge myself to evolve into a better leader,

789
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: a better human being, a better dad, a better friend,

790
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: and so you know, of course I would love to

791
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 1: transport and give some of that wisdom to those younger selves.

792
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: But you know, I don't spend a lot of time

793
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: thinking about that. I spend most of my time thinking

794
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,959
Speaker 1: about how can I make the most of this extraordinary journey.

795
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: We're all just start us. We all suspend disbelief, right.

796
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: We don't want to think about the fact that our

797
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: days are finite, but the reality is they are, and

798
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: so I want every one of them to be a

799
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 1: full expression of the best version of myself. And I

800
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: certainly have bad days, but it's what I aspire to

801
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: and with friends like you, Bob, the only thing I

802
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,719
Speaker 1: worry about is running out of time because we have

803
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: so much left to do. Mathew Magic refers to the

804
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: analytical view and the creativity that must both be present

805
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: for any successful business or marketing, and we end each

806
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: episode with our guests shout out on each because you've

807
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: seen a lot thinking about people you've seen or heard

808
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: of or know about. Who gets the shout out for

809
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: the best on the analytical side, the mathematician, if you will,

810
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: and who gets it on the creation of side, the magician.

811
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: I'll start with the creative side, the magician, the mutual

812
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 1: friend of ours who has been in my life for

813
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: twenty years, Rich Barton. He reinvented the travel industry with Expedia.

814
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: He reinvented the real estate industry was Zillo. He's helping

815
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: me think about how to reinvent the finance industry. And

816
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: having somebody like that who's inspired, who thinks about the

817
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: world differently, happens to go to burning Man as well.

818
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: That open mindedness, his creativity, his passion to understand the

819
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 1: world better in all things just really inspires me. And

820
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,240
Speaker 1: then on the analytical side, I would give a shout

821
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: out to my mentor Paul Reader, I would have a

822
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: lot of ideas, and he would say to me, if

823
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,439
Speaker 1: all of this stuff in your head isn't in your

824
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: financial model, if it doesn't show up as part of

825
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: your future forecast, doesn't show up in your assumptions, then

826
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 1: it's not actionable, right. And this discipline around bill any

827
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 1: framework for decision making. We all have to make decisions

828
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: with insufficient information. But really understanding the distribution of probabilities

829
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: when you can act and when you can't act was

830
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: eye opening for me and really is part of our

831
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: formula at Altimeter. And so two very important people in

832
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: my life over the course of the last twenty years,

833
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,439
Speaker 1: and both represent the opposite sides of that equation, one

834
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: art and one math. Brad, you have had and are

835
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 1: having an amazing life, deep and broad your force for

836
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 1: positive change in business and in the world. Thanks for

837
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: all you're doing and thanks for joining us today. Thank you, Bob.

838
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: Here are a few things I learned from my conversation

839
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: with Brad. One essentialism is the north star of Altimeter,

840
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: which is simply the idea of doing less better. Brad

841
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 1: believes that accepting every opportunity without critical thought dilute your

842
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: focus and effectiveness. To Brad's recipe for thinking big is first,

843
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: be curious. When Brad takes hold of an interest, he

844
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: learns all he can on the subject and interrogates that knowledge.

845
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: Then he lets that research turn into informed conviction. Three,

846
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: Brad understands that leaders cannot simply dictate a corporate culture. Instead,

847
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 1: Brad reinforces corporate culture through living the company's values. For

848
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: burning Man taught Brad to suspend his judgment and be

849
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: more open minded. According to Brad, this mindset is what

850
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: has allowed innovators to unlock revolutionary ideas. And Five, According

851
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: to Brad, leaders in technology and entrepreneurship have a responsibility

852
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: to create a more equitable world. With people like Brad

853
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: at the helm, we can leave the world better than

854
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: we found it. Thanks for listening. I'm Bob Pittman. That's

855
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,720
Speaker 1: it for today's episod old Thanks so much for listening

856
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 1: to Math and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: This show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to

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Speaker 1: Sue Schillinger for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which

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Speaker 1: is no small feat Nikkiatore for pulling research, Bill Plax,

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Speaker 1: and Michael Asar for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch,

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Speaker 1: and of course Gail Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango, and

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Speaker 1: everyone who helped bring this show to your ears. Until

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Speaker 1: next time,