WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Barbara Bryan 0:00:46.480 --> 0:00:47.921 School of Humans. 0:00:49.241 --> 0:00:53.000 Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold case murders in 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.200 an effort to raise public awareness invite witnesses to come 0:00:56.241 --> 0:01:00.121 forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated 0:01:00.121 --> 0:01:03.761 by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and 0:01:03.801 --> 0:01:07.720 community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and 0:01:07.761 --> 0:01:11.560 point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.800 We remind listeners that everyone has presumed innocent until proven 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.080 guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.080 is intended to state or imply that anyone who has 0:01:22.161 --> 0:01:25.601 not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing. 0:01:26.241 --> 0:01:27.121 Thanks for listening. 0:01:29.561 --> 0:01:33.521 On Friday, December twelfth, nineteen eighty, at approximately six forty 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.720 five in the morning, the Mississippi County Sheriff's Department got 0:01:36.721 --> 0:01:39.521 a call about a female body lying on the side 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:43.201 of the road. The location of the body was on 0:01:43.281 --> 0:01:45.841 Highway J one eight one, just south of Highway one 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.960 fifty eight. The caller was a man named Arbora dal 0:01:50.041 --> 0:01:54.721 Watkins who lived nearby in Manila, Arkansas. He told police 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:56.441 he had been en route to his job at the 0:01:56.441 --> 0:01:59.600 brown shoe factory in Osceola when he turned south on 0:01:59.641 --> 0:02:02.441 the highway and saw the body lying in the edge 0:02:02.441 --> 0:02:05.161 of a ditch. He went to a nearby business, the 0:02:05.281 --> 0:02:09.001 Reese Wholesale Furniture Outlet, in contacted the Arkansas State Police 0:02:09.001 --> 0:02:12.520 in Jonesborough, who then called the Mississippi County Sheriff's Office 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:17.241 because the body was in their jurisdiction. Officer Richard Nash 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:19.921 from the Mississippi County Sheriff's Department arrived at the scene 0:02:20.001 --> 0:02:23.441 at six fifty six am. He came to meet the 0:02:23.481 --> 0:02:26.560 guy who had called police and to start processing the 0:02:26.601 --> 0:02:30.041 crime scene. The woman was dressed in a striped red 0:02:30.081 --> 0:02:33.481 colored dress and velveteen jacket. She was five foot five. 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.281 She weighed around one hundred and fifteen pounds. The woman 0:02:37.441 --> 0:02:40.401 was carrying a reddish brown clutch bag under her right arm. 0:02:40.761 --> 0:02:43.281 Detectives were able to go into that bag and find 0:02:43.281 --> 0:02:47.081 her ID. That's when they knew who this woman was. 0:02:48.441 --> 0:02:51.441 Barbara and Bryan, a thirty year old mother of two 0:02:51.641 --> 0:02:55.641 from a Pontou, Arkansas. It was not hard to figure 0:02:55.681 --> 0:02:59.281 out the cause of death. Barbara had massive holes blown 0:02:59.321 --> 0:03:02.921 into her body by a shotgun. The shots were so 0:03:03.121 --> 0:03:06.641 violent that pieces of her hair and skull were found 0:03:06.801 --> 0:03:12.761 twenty feet away. So once again in rural Arkansas, we 0:03:12.841 --> 0:03:15.001 have a woman whose body was found in a ditch 0:03:15.041 --> 0:03:18.121 near a highway and her car was found several miles 0:03:18.161 --> 0:03:22.201 down the road. And just like in Amanda Tussing's case, 0:03:22.761 --> 0:03:26.121 which we discussed last week, there were suspicions that a 0:03:26.161 --> 0:03:31.441 police officer may have been involved, and Barbara's murder is 0:03:31.521 --> 0:03:37.561 also still unsolved. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five 0:03:37.641 --> 0:03:40.681 years of making my true crime podcast, Helling Gone, I 0:03:40.721 --> 0:03:42.761 have learned that there is no such thing as a 0:03:42.801 --> 0:03:46.681 small town where never happens. I have received hundreds of 0:03:46.721 --> 0:03:50.241 messages from people all around the country asking for help 0:03:50.281 --> 0:03:53.641 with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and 0:03:53.681 --> 0:03:56.481 their communities. If you have a case you'd like me 0:03:56.521 --> 0:03:58.721 and my team to look into, you can reach out 0:03:58.761 --> 0:04:01.121 to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six 0:04:01.161 --> 0:04:05.201 seven eight seven four four six one four five. That's 0:04:05.281 --> 0:04:08.961 six seven eight seven four four, six one four or five. 0:04:09.961 --> 0:05:01.401 This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Police had responded to 0:05:01.401 --> 0:05:04.121 a murder scene along the shoulder of the road. From 0:05:04.201 --> 0:05:08.201 there things happened fast. The county corner was contacted at 0:05:08.201 --> 0:05:12.080 seven fifteen am arrangements were made to move Barber's body 0:05:12.121 --> 0:05:15.321 so that it could be tested. At seven twenty one am, 0:05:15.521 --> 0:05:18.961 Sergeant J. C. Brewer arrived on the scene. He noted 0:05:18.961 --> 0:05:22.281 the position of Barber's body. It was facing the west 0:05:22.361 --> 0:05:27.361 side of the road shoulder, her feet were facing the highway. 0:05:27.481 --> 0:05:30.601 She had what appeared to be a large shotgun wound 0:05:30.641 --> 0:05:33.601 to the chest and part of her left hand had 0:05:33.601 --> 0:05:38.401 been shot off. They found casings and shotgun shells scattered around. 0:05:38.801 --> 0:05:43.320 They also found buckshot, the casing from Barbara's watch and 0:05:43.361 --> 0:05:45.681 some in her Parts of the watch were found several 0:05:45.681 --> 0:05:49.241 feet away from the body as well. In all, police 0:05:49.281 --> 0:05:53.201 found five shotgun shells and powder dividers, and two separate 0:05:53.241 --> 0:05:56.561 locks of blonde hair. All of the hairs they found 0:05:57.001 --> 0:06:01.640 were positively identified as Barbara's. Barbara had a large bloodstain 0:06:01.801 --> 0:06:05.401 and brain material under her head. It was obvious that 0:06:05.441 --> 0:06:09.641 these were catastrophic injuries. Police also noticed something else. They 0:06:09.761 --> 0:06:12.921 noticed a ring. It had a black center mounting with 0:06:13.041 --> 0:06:17.041 eight surrounding clear settings. The interesting thing about the ring 0:06:17.521 --> 0:06:19.761 was that it appeared to investigators that it had been 0:06:19.801 --> 0:06:23.841 cut into and peeled open. From the way they describe it, 0:06:23.841 --> 0:06:26.801 it's not totally clear, but it seems like someone used 0:06:26.841 --> 0:06:29.320 a tool or something to try and remove the ring 0:06:29.401 --> 0:06:32.321 from Barbara's finger, and in the end they couldn't do it. 0:06:33.081 --> 0:06:35.241 I can't be sure because the way the report is 0:06:35.281 --> 0:06:38.561 worded is slightly odd. In my opinion, it makes it 0:06:38.601 --> 0:06:41.801 sound like the center stone may have been missing. Now, 0:06:41.841 --> 0:06:45.161 this would be very interesting because that ring was on 0:06:45.561 --> 0:06:48.721 Barbara's ring finger, the fourth finger of her left hand, 0:06:49.161 --> 0:06:52.561 the finger that's traditionally used for engagement rings and wedding bands. 0:06:53.681 --> 0:06:56.080 The body was taken to the Chickisawbu Morgue at the 0:06:56.121 --> 0:07:01.241 request of a coroner, and then the investigation continued. Investigators 0:07:01.241 --> 0:07:04.601 figured out Barbara had been shot at least twice, possibly 0:07:04.641 --> 0:07:07.880 with a twelve or sixteen gage shotgun, the type of 0:07:07.921 --> 0:07:12.561 shotguns that are used for hunting. Both of these gun sizes, 0:07:12.561 --> 0:07:15.081 by the way, are used for hunting deer and for 0:07:15.161 --> 0:07:18.521 hunting other types of game. The twelve gage is slightly larger, 0:07:18.921 --> 0:07:23.721 but both of these weapons packed serious firepower. Barbara was 0:07:23.761 --> 0:07:27.081 shot at least twice at very close range. From the 0:07:27.121 --> 0:07:29.961 position that she was in. It seemed as though she 0:07:30.041 --> 0:07:33.081 was shot in the chest from behind on the left side. 0:07:33.641 --> 0:07:36.881 This severely damaged her lungs and would have been fatal. 0:07:37.601 --> 0:07:40.801 Then she was shot again. From the description of the 0:07:40.801 --> 0:07:44.361 autopsy report of the powder burns on Barbara's hands and 0:07:44.521 --> 0:07:46.601 the fact that part of her left hand was missing, 0:07:47.161 --> 0:07:49.241 it seems as though she may have had her hand 0:07:49.441 --> 0:07:54.001 near her neck when she was shot. The state medical examiner, 0:07:54.081 --> 0:07:57.641 Dan Cook did find more wounds on Barber's head, but 0:07:57.721 --> 0:08:00.121 he said that they were most likely the result of 0:08:00.121 --> 0:08:05.361 the shotgun pellets rather than direct shots. So when people 0:08:05.401 --> 0:08:08.321 go hunting deer or other animals, they often do it 0:08:08.361 --> 0:08:11.401 with buckshot. That's literally what the ammunition is named for. 0:08:11.641 --> 0:08:14.801 The male deer, the buck. There are several large pellets 0:08:14.841 --> 0:08:16.401 that are packed into a shotgun shell. 0:08:16.961 --> 0:08:17.041 Now. 0:08:17.121 --> 0:08:21.841 According to Field and Stream, buckshot is ideal for quote, 0:08:22.161 --> 0:08:26.521 close ranges inside fifty yards. Buckshot is lethal on thin 0:08:26.601 --> 0:08:30.721 skin targets from bobcats to coyotes, to leopards to people 0:08:31.201 --> 0:08:37.160 end quote. When you use a shotgun and buckshot, it 0:08:37.201 --> 0:08:40.001 comes out in a burst rather than a single shot. 0:08:40.881 --> 0:08:44.280 Forensic testing determined that the bullets had entered Barbara's left 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:48.081 shoulder at a forty five degree angle, so it would 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:53.041 be reasonable for police to consider the possibility Barbara knew 0:08:53.081 --> 0:08:56.281 her killer she was standing there talking to them, then 0:08:56.721 --> 0:08:59.761 she might have turned around to walk away before her 0:08:59.841 --> 0:09:04.521 killer shot her. Remember, she had her purse under her 0:09:04.560 --> 0:09:09.561 right arm. Police found a chalky white substance on the 0:09:09.560 --> 0:09:12.881 front of Barber's dress, just below her breast. They never 0:09:12.961 --> 0:09:15.961 really explained what that was. Now this is just a 0:09:16.001 --> 0:09:18.761 guest since I'm not a gun expert. I do know 0:09:18.841 --> 0:09:22.721 they use buffering powder inside shotgun shells made of polyethylene, 0:09:22.881 --> 0:09:25.281 so that might have been what it was. It could 0:09:25.321 --> 0:09:28.401 have been something totally different, like a deodorant stain, for example, 0:09:28.721 --> 0:09:32.161 So I can't say for sure, but a buffer powder 0:09:32.241 --> 0:09:34.641 is more likely in my opinion, because the medical report 0:09:34.721 --> 0:09:38.561 did point out one of Barbara's wounds had powder burn. 0:09:39.121 --> 0:09:42.321 What this means is that Barbara's killer shot her at 0:09:42.521 --> 0:09:46.801 very close range. The autopsy also mentioned Barbara was not 0:09:46.881 --> 0:09:50.081 wearing underwear. Now, this could have been a fashion choice, 0:09:50.441 --> 0:09:53.040 but we also have to consider the possibility that it 0:09:53.161 --> 0:09:56.961 might have been removed, possibly by the killer, maybe in 0:09:57.001 --> 0:10:00.001 an attempt to camouflage DNA. If the killer had any 0:10:00.041 --> 0:10:03.401 type of sexual encounter with her, either consensual or not, 0:10:03.601 --> 0:10:08.281 before her murder. There were two shots fired, so it 0:10:08.321 --> 0:10:10.681 seems as though either Barbara's killer shot her in the 0:10:10.761 --> 0:10:13.801 back and then turned her over and shot her, or 0:10:14.521 --> 0:10:17.121 shot her and then fired the fatal shot as she 0:10:17.161 --> 0:10:20.840 tried to run away. Either way, this was an execution 0:10:20.921 --> 0:10:23.561 and it was brutal and judging by the way that 0:10:23.601 --> 0:10:25.881 her killer tried to wrench the ring from her finger, 0:10:26.441 --> 0:10:36.281 this was very personal. Barbara Brian's murder happened in the 0:10:36.321 --> 0:10:39.641 same general area as the murder of Amanda Tussing, the 0:10:39.721 --> 0:10:44.001 case that we discussed in a previous episode. As we mentioned, 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.160 Amanda Tussing was making a forty mile drive from her fiance, 0:10:47.321 --> 0:10:51.321 Matt Irvin's home in Jonesboro to her parents house in Dell, Arkansas. 0:10:51.961 --> 0:10:54.641 It was raining hard that night and Amanda never made 0:10:54.681 --> 0:10:58.321 it home. Her car was found part just off Highway 0:10:58.321 --> 0:11:02.161 eighteen near Monette. Her body was found days later in 0:11:02.201 --> 0:11:06.201 a ditch near Lake City. Like Barbara's, Amanda's murder is 0:11:06.201 --> 0:11:09.681 still unsolved, and even though the causes of death are different, 0:11:10.041 --> 0:11:13.361 Amanda may have been strangled and there were no gunshots involved, 0:11:13.641 --> 0:11:18.121 while Barbara was very obviously fatally shot. There are some similarities. 0:11:18.721 --> 0:11:21.721 Both women were petite, both of their bodies were recovered 0:11:21.761 --> 0:11:25.521 miles away from their cars, and both bodies were found 0:11:25.521 --> 0:11:28.841 in locations that made investigators believe the killer had to 0:11:28.921 --> 0:11:31.761 have a lot of local knowledge. A lot of people 0:11:31.761 --> 0:11:33.641 in this neck of the woods have connected Barbara and 0:11:33.681 --> 0:11:36.800 Amanda's cases over the years. One of the reasons why 0:11:36.801 --> 0:11:39.921 I was so fascinated by this case is because while 0:11:39.921 --> 0:11:43.040 there is a ton of information about Amanda Tossing, there 0:11:43.121 --> 0:11:45.801 is very little information out there about the life of 0:11:45.921 --> 0:11:49.881 Barbara and Armstrong Brian. What we do know is that 0:11:49.921 --> 0:11:53.761 she was born in Caraway, Arkansas, in Craighead County, to 0:11:53.921 --> 0:11:58.680 Flemen's Skinny Armstrong and Agnes Armstrong. Barbara's dad, Skinny, was 0:11:58.681 --> 0:12:01.761 a farmer. She grew up in a Baptist's household, like 0:12:01.801 --> 0:12:04.920 a lot of other kids in that region. She had 0:12:04.921 --> 0:12:08.401 a brother named Gary, and again, very much like in 0:12:08.441 --> 0:12:12.401 Amanda Tussing's case, when police found Barbara's purse, it had 0:12:12.441 --> 0:12:14.801 her car, keys and all of her belongings inside it. 0:12:15.481 --> 0:12:19.241 Barbara's nineteen seventy four brown Chevy Nova was parked five 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.601 miles from where her body was found. All of the 0:12:21.681 --> 0:12:25.201 doors were locked. There was no sign of foul play 0:12:25.321 --> 0:12:29.841 inside the vehicle. Police found items inside the car personal 0:12:29.881 --> 0:12:33.361 items of Barbara's that did give investigators a clue about 0:12:33.401 --> 0:12:37.601 her movements right before she went missing. Inside the car, 0:12:37.721 --> 0:12:40.201 on the middle of the front seat, they found a 0:12:40.201 --> 0:12:43.521 white cloth jacket lying on top of a green overnight case. 0:12:44.041 --> 0:12:46.281 Next to the overnight bag, there was an envelope that 0:12:46.321 --> 0:12:50.561 was addressed to Barbara. So the investigator on the case, J. C. Brewer, 0:12:50.921 --> 0:12:54.441 talked to Barbara's closest girlfriend, a woman named Joyce Langston. 0:12:55.241 --> 0:12:58.241 Joyce told police she had been super close to Barbara 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.441 for a long time, but she said she had stopped 0:13:01.481 --> 0:13:04.641 running around with Barbara lately and these are her words 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:11.241 because Barbara was dating married men. Police continued to process 0:13:11.321 --> 0:13:14.841 Barbara Brian's in nineteen seventy four Chevy Nova. They wondered 0:13:14.921 --> 0:13:17.401 about the location of the car versus the location of 0:13:17.441 --> 0:13:20.961 her body. Why, if it was in fact Barbara driving, 0:13:21.601 --> 0:13:24.081 would Barbara park her car and stop there on that 0:13:24.121 --> 0:13:26.680 deserted strip of road. They took the car to the 0:13:26.721 --> 0:13:30.201 Sheriff's department. Investigators wanted to check out the vehicle's condition. 0:13:30.441 --> 0:13:33.800 They were thinking, maybe the car broke down, Maybe Barbara 0:13:33.841 --> 0:13:36.801 encountered a stranger, Maybe she stopped to pick someone up 0:13:36.841 --> 0:13:39.121 and he pulled a gun on her, or maybe she 0:13:39.161 --> 0:13:41.881 had someone with her in the car. The car broke down, 0:13:41.961 --> 0:13:44.321 something went wrong and they got into an argument. They 0:13:44.321 --> 0:13:47.721 had to consider all different types of scenarios. They saw 0:13:47.841 --> 0:13:50.401 that the gas gauge showed that the car was empty, 0:13:51.201 --> 0:13:53.441 but that was kind of a red herring because when 0:13:53.681 --> 0:13:57.721 police started the car up, it ran fine. Later they 0:13:57.761 --> 0:14:00.401 figured out the gas gauge itself was broken, but the 0:14:00.441 --> 0:14:03.641 car had plenty of gas in it. In the police 0:14:03.681 --> 0:14:07.081 report noted the vehicle exterior had dew on it, so 0:14:07.241 --> 0:14:10.361 they weren't able to lift latent prints. The vehicle was 0:14:10.361 --> 0:14:13.681 impounded to the Sheriff's department for further processing. But then 0:14:14.561 --> 0:14:17.040 I can't find anything more in this report about what 0:14:17.081 --> 0:14:21.401 happened to the car, whether they did take fingerprints. They 0:14:21.441 --> 0:14:23.961 got into her bag. They unzipped the carrier and found 0:14:24.001 --> 0:14:26.841 Barbara's stuff inside. They found a white pair of pants 0:14:26.841 --> 0:14:29.841 and maroon blouse, her makeup, her curling iron, all of 0:14:29.841 --> 0:14:31.921 the stuff that she would need to get ready, as 0:14:32.001 --> 0:14:35.561 well as two small plaster statues and an ankle bracelet. 0:14:36.001 --> 0:14:40.681 They also found photographs of two white men, so police 0:14:40.721 --> 0:14:44.681 got more information from Barbara's girlfriend, Joyce. She looked at 0:14:44.681 --> 0:14:47.241 the photos in Barbara's bag and said that one of 0:14:47.281 --> 0:14:50.881 them was Jerry Shaw. She said that Jerry Shaw and 0:14:50.921 --> 0:14:53.201 Barbara had been dating for several months and that things 0:14:53.201 --> 0:14:56.201 were going well. They found a greeting card inside and 0:14:56.241 --> 0:15:00.441 it was also written by Jerry Shaw. But then Joyce 0:15:00.521 --> 0:15:04.321 told them something shocking. Joyce said that for the past 0:15:04.361 --> 0:15:08.281 several years, Barbara had been dating someone else, a police 0:15:08.321 --> 0:15:13.361 officer named Johnny Williams. Johnny Williams lived in black Oak, 0:15:13.921 --> 0:15:17.281 which was a small town nearby by the way. This 0:15:17.481 --> 0:15:20.681 was very close to the area where Amanda Tussing's body 0:15:20.721 --> 0:15:24.361 was found. Johnny was born in nineteen forty six, so 0:15:24.601 --> 0:15:27.641 by two thousand, when Amanda Tussing was murdered, Johnny would 0:15:27.641 --> 0:15:30.161 have been fifty four years old. He served in the 0:15:30.241 --> 0:15:33.161 Navy in Vietnam and then after that was a police 0:15:33.161 --> 0:15:35.921 officer in black Oak, and he also worked in the 0:15:35.921 --> 0:15:39.041 neighboring county at the Craighead County Sheriff's office. At one 0:15:39.121 --> 0:15:42.801 point he was an Arkansas State trooper. We mentioned that 0:15:42.841 --> 0:15:45.921 he became a suspect and Amanda Tussing's death because of 0:15:45.921 --> 0:15:49.321 his alleged behavior. Apparently he had a habit of following 0:15:49.361 --> 0:15:53.961 single women around in his police cruiser. But in nineteen eighty, 0:15:54.161 --> 0:15:57.281 Johnny Williams would have been thirty four, and now we 0:15:57.401 --> 0:16:01.921 find out that he was dating Barbara. Brian Joyce told 0:16:01.961 --> 0:16:05.321 police that Johnny was not happy about the fact Barbara 0:16:05.361 --> 0:16:09.161 wanted to end things. Joyce told police Barbara had told 0:16:09.241 --> 0:16:13.641 her that Johnny Williams flew into jealous rages. On the 0:16:13.721 --> 0:16:16.241 night Barbara was shot, she had a date with Jerry Shaw. 0:16:16.961 --> 0:16:21.081 Jerry lived in Blible. That's why Barbara had her overnight bag. 0:16:21.481 --> 0:16:24.121 She had her stuff ready for a weekend with her boyfriend. 0:16:25.201 --> 0:16:28.841 Joyce said. Two weeks before Barbara was murdered, Barbara called 0:16:28.881 --> 0:16:32.081 her and told her she had a violent confrontation with Johnny. 0:16:32.761 --> 0:16:35.361 She said she had told Johnny she was dating another man, 0:16:35.921 --> 0:16:39.081 and that Johnny got extremely upset and beat on the 0:16:39.161 --> 0:16:42.681 dash of his car. Barbara told Joyce, according to the 0:16:42.681 --> 0:16:47.041 incident report, that Joe was extremely jealous. Last week, when 0:16:47.041 --> 0:16:49.321 we talked about Amanda Tussing's case, we talked about the 0:16:49.321 --> 0:16:53.041 blue light rapist. The blue light rapist impersonated a police 0:16:53.081 --> 0:16:55.761 officer and committed a string of sexual assaults in this area, 0:16:56.241 --> 0:16:58.361 but of course he had already been arrested and sent 0:16:58.401 --> 0:17:02.161 to prison by the time Amanda disappeared. A lot of 0:17:02.161 --> 0:17:06.761 people at that time talked about the possibility that Amanda 0:17:06.801 --> 0:17:10.000 Tussing might have pulled over for a real police officer, 0:17:10.041 --> 0:17:13.160 and that perhaps a real police officer had been the killer. 0:17:14.201 --> 0:17:18.160 Johnny Williams worked for the Tyronza Sheriff's Department. Tyron's is 0:17:18.201 --> 0:17:20.080 a small town in the northeast part of the state. 0:17:20.561 --> 0:17:23.880 The population is only around seven hundred people, and there 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.120 are not a ton of jobs. A lot of people 0:17:26.120 --> 0:17:29.360 who live there commute to larger cities nearby, including Memphis 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.761 and Jonesboro. George Jared, who he worked with on the 0:17:32.801 --> 0:17:36.080 Rebecca Gould case from season one of heleng Gon, wrote 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.921 about Amanda Tussing's murder in his book Whispers in the Willows, 0:17:39.521 --> 0:17:41.801 and as part of that we mentioned the theories that 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.801 Johnny Williams might have been involved in Barbara and in 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:48.120 Amanda's murders. It seemed clear from what's out there in 0:17:48.121 --> 0:17:52.281 the public that the police suspected Johnny certainly in Barbara's death, 0:17:52.681 --> 0:17:55.881 but I had a lot of questions. It wasn't clear 0:17:55.881 --> 0:17:57.881 to me how much investigating they did, whether they ever 0:17:58.001 --> 0:18:00.721 questioned him. There was just nothing written in the media 0:18:00.761 --> 0:18:04.561 about it at all. Since Amanda's case is still open, 0:18:05.161 --> 0:18:08.601 police will not release the case file. But I hoped 0:18:08.641 --> 0:18:11.481 if we could get some information on Barber's case, maybe 0:18:11.481 --> 0:18:13.961 we could figure out whether Johnny Williams was a viable 0:18:14.001 --> 0:18:18.441 suspect in her murder or possibly in others. We did 0:18:18.481 --> 0:18:20.521 a Foyer request and we were able to get a 0:18:20.521 --> 0:18:23.841 copy of the incident report on Barbara's death. We got 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.761 that from Mississippi County, Arkansas, and it turns out there 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.881 was a lot more detail on record about Barbara Brin's death, 0:18:31.641 --> 0:18:34.721 enough to make me really question why Johnny Williams was 0:18:34.721 --> 0:18:37.801 never arrested. I'll get back to that in a minute. 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.561 Let's go back to the crime scene. Police were trying 0:18:41.561 --> 0:18:43.840 to figure out what Barbara was doing out there on 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:47.401 that stretch of highway. They were looking for witnesses. Now 0:18:47.441 --> 0:18:50.440 they knew from Barbara's friend Joyce, that Johnny Williams had 0:18:50.441 --> 0:18:53.201 been dating Barbara. They wanted to find out about his 0:18:53.321 --> 0:18:56.640 movements on December eleventh and December twelfth, nineteen eighty and 0:18:56.681 --> 0:18:59.721 they pretty quickly found a lead. I have actually never 0:18:59.761 --> 0:19:01.961 seen this happen before in a case that I can remember. 0:19:02.521 --> 0:19:04.961 They got a lot of information from a man named 0:19:04.961 --> 0:19:09.081 Clyde Eldridge. He told police that he would often sleep 0:19:09.121 --> 0:19:13.761 overnight at the Tyronsa Police Department. Now, Johnny Williams also 0:19:13.961 --> 0:19:17.400 had an office in the Tyrone'sa PD at that time. 0:19:17.641 --> 0:19:20.080 According to what I've been able to find, he was 0:19:20.121 --> 0:19:24.440 an Arkansas State Police trooper. Tyronza was in Poinsett County, 0:19:24.601 --> 0:19:28.600 not in Mississippi County. So once again we have a 0:19:28.601 --> 0:19:32.401 case that crossed county lines and all the potential complications 0:19:32.401 --> 0:19:36.600 that that entails. Police were trying to piece together where 0:19:36.641 --> 0:19:40.481 everyone was on the night of December eleventh. Apparently, on 0:19:40.641 --> 0:19:44.201 that night, Clyde Eldridge was sleeping in the iron's A 0:19:44.201 --> 0:19:47.880 Police station. He told investigators he got to the police 0:19:47.921 --> 0:19:51.881 station at twelve fifteen am. Clyde said that Johnny Williams 0:19:51.921 --> 0:19:54.600 was there, that Johnny was sitting at his desk at 0:19:54.641 --> 0:19:59.160 the police department watching TV. Clyde said he sat around 0:19:59.161 --> 0:20:02.080 and talked to Johnny for a few minutes. Then he 0:20:02.121 --> 0:20:05.521 said he noticed a two tone leather gun case lying 0:20:05.561 --> 0:20:08.961 across Johnny's desk, but Clyde said he didn't really think 0:20:09.001 --> 0:20:12.041 anything about it, and I'm not surprised because it was 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.521 super common to have guns in that neck of the woods. 0:20:14.961 --> 0:20:18.201 Johnny was a hunter like a lot of people. The 0:20:18.281 --> 0:20:21.041 report read quote Clyde had asked Johnny if he had 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:23.441 been hunting. Johnny stated to Clyde that he had been 0:20:23.481 --> 0:20:27.721 to Brandywine Island. Clyde advised he thought Brandywine Island was closed. 0:20:28.121 --> 0:20:30.881 Johnny Williams stated to him, if you know who to contact, 0:20:31.161 --> 0:20:34.080 you can go hunting there. End quote. So after they 0:20:34.121 --> 0:20:37.881 discussed Johnny's hunting plans, Clyde said that sometime around one 0:20:38.001 --> 0:20:40.920 or one fifteen am, Johnny was trying to make a 0:20:40.921 --> 0:20:43.761 phone call from the police department. Clyde said he'd he 0:20:43.761 --> 0:20:46.920 didn't exactly remember who the call was to, but he 0:20:47.001 --> 0:20:49.281 said that at around one point fifteen am, it did 0:20:49.321 --> 0:20:51.840 seem like Johnny made contact with the person he was 0:20:51.881 --> 0:20:55.161 trying to call. Clyde said that after that he laid 0:20:55.241 --> 0:20:57.120 down on the couch in the office. He said he 0:20:57.161 --> 0:20:59.721 went to sleep. Sometime around two or two thirty am, 0:21:00.241 --> 0:21:03.160 he heard someone leaving the police station. He explained that 0:21:03.161 --> 0:21:05.161 when the front door is unlocked, it wakes him up. 0:21:05.561 --> 0:21:07.761 He stated. He usually wakes up when someone opens the 0:21:07.761 --> 0:21:09.401 door and then gets up to see what they want. 0:21:10.241 --> 0:21:12.241 After he woke up, he walked to the front of 0:21:12.281 --> 0:21:15.801 the police department and looked outside. He noticed Johnny Williams 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:19.481 was gone. Johnny williams jeep Eagle was not parked in front. 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.721 Clyde said he wasn't exactly sure of the time. He 0:21:22.761 --> 0:21:25.001 went back to sleep, and the next thing he remembered 0:21:25.001 --> 0:21:27.640 was at four forty five am when the police chief, 0:21:27.761 --> 0:21:31.161 Floyd White, came into the police department and woke him up. 0:21:32.721 --> 0:21:36.321 This is almost like a movie about smalltown police, complete 0:21:36.321 --> 0:21:38.801 with people admitting to sleeping on their jobs at night 0:21:39.361 --> 0:21:45.481 and people crashing in the police station. Evidently, police were 0:21:45.601 --> 0:21:49.201 very suspicious of Johnny Williams, because on the very next day, 0:21:49.201 --> 0:21:52.961 in December thirteenth of nineteen eighty, Johnny Williams was interrogated. 0:21:53.721 --> 0:21:56.921 Investigators gave him a lie detector test. The investigator's name 0:21:56.961 --> 0:22:00.440 was George Stewart. They administered the polygraph at the Mississippi 0:22:00.441 --> 0:22:05.521 County Sheriff's Department. The lie detector examiner said Johnny Williams 0:22:05.561 --> 0:22:09.880 had been deceptive which means investigators concluded that Johnny Williams 0:22:09.961 --> 0:22:12.840 lied during that test. Again, I think we have to 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:15.840 be very careful about putting too much faith into light detectors. 0:22:16.241 --> 0:22:18.761 We've talked about that a lot on this podcast. We 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.441 know they're dependent on the skill of the person administering them. Also, 0:22:22.801 --> 0:22:25.400 there's a good reason why they're not admissible in court. 0:22:25.801 --> 0:22:29.201 But I do think it's really interesting that immediately the police, 0:22:29.201 --> 0:22:31.961 who sometimes people criticized for protecting one of their own, 0:22:32.361 --> 0:22:35.721 were suspicious of another officer, they do not hesitate to 0:22:35.761 --> 0:22:40.841 polygraph him. So this brings us to December fourteenth. Barbara 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:44.401 Bryan's body has been found. Johnny Williams, she's been dating 0:22:44.401 --> 0:22:47.120 on and off for three years, is immediately pretty much 0:22:47.201 --> 0:22:52.201 a prime suspect. On December fourteenth, they informed Johnny Williams 0:22:52.201 --> 0:22:54.080 that he had failed the light detector test, and he 0:22:54.161 --> 0:22:58.001 agreed to take a second test. This time it was 0:22:58.001 --> 0:23:01.721 administered by the Arkansas State Police, and once again Johnny 0:23:01.761 --> 0:23:05.921 Williams failed that polygraph test, So now he's zero for two. 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:11.201 Police found other officers who had seen Johnny Williams that night. 0:23:11.601 --> 0:23:14.921 They found a man named James Miles, a police officer 0:23:15.001 --> 0:23:18.361 in Leponto. He said he saw Johnny at around two 0:23:18.401 --> 0:23:21.201 thirty am on the morning of December twelfth. He said 0:23:21.241 --> 0:23:23.561 Johnny was traveling north on Highway one forty and one 0:23:23.601 --> 0:23:28.400 thirty five. He saw Johnny driving his Jeep Eagle. He 0:23:28.441 --> 0:23:31.880 recognized Johnny and he recognized the car. He said he 0:23:31.921 --> 0:23:34.521 did not see him again during his shift, which ended 0:23:34.521 --> 0:23:39.241 at three am. Investigators pulled the desklog from the Tyronsa 0:23:39.241 --> 0:23:42.441 Police department from the night of December twelfth, nineteen eighty. 0:23:43.921 --> 0:23:48.041 They searched Johnny Williams Gep Eagle in the back seat 0:23:48.161 --> 0:23:50.721 on the left armrest. There was a small piece of 0:23:50.761 --> 0:23:54.201 reddish orange string entangled in the carpeting. This was entered 0:23:54.241 --> 0:23:58.441 into evidence and cataloged. Investigators also found a pair of 0:23:58.481 --> 0:24:02.041 green hip boots and a pair of camouflage coveralls on 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:05.120 the back floorboard. There was a rust colored vest in 0:24:05.161 --> 0:24:07.841 the back of the car too that had several Western 0:24:07.961 --> 0:24:11.281 number six shotgun shells inside it, as well as a 0:24:11.281 --> 0:24:16.561 plastic container of rifle cartridges. They had found Johnny Williams 0:24:16.681 --> 0:24:27.601 hunting gear. Immediately after Barbara Bryne's body was found. According 0:24:27.601 --> 0:24:31.200 to the incident report, police identified the man she had 0:24:31.241 --> 0:24:35.041 been dating a police officer named Johnny Williams as a suspect. 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:39.401 He admitted that he had been in the Tyronza, Arkansas area, 0:24:39.481 --> 0:24:43.120 in the early morning hours of December twelfth. He said 0:24:43.241 --> 0:24:46.201 that the chief of Police, Floyd White, could verify this. 0:24:46.801 --> 0:24:49.920 The problem with that was Chief White told police that 0:24:50.001 --> 0:24:52.201 he had seen Johnny between the hours of four thirty 0:24:52.201 --> 0:24:57.120 and five am, but not before that. Floyd White said 0:24:57.201 --> 0:24:59.120 that he came back to the police station at around 0:24:59.121 --> 0:25:01.841 seven am that morning. He said by that time Johnny 0:25:01.881 --> 0:25:04.841 was gone, but his jeep was still parked in the lot. 0:25:05.801 --> 0:25:08.761