Speaker 1: School of Humans.
Speaker 2: Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold case murders in
Speaker 2: an effort to raise public awareness invite witnesses to come
Speaker 2: forward and present evidence that could potentially be further investigated
Speaker 2: by law enforcement. While we value insights from family and
Speaker 2: community members, their statements should not be considered evidence and
Speaker 2: point to the challenges of verifying facts inherent in cold cases.
Speaker 2: We remind listeners that everyone has presumed innocent until proven
Speaker 2: guilty in a court of law. Nothing in the podcast
Speaker 2: is intended to state or imply that anyone who has
Speaker 2: not been convicted of a crime is guilty of any wrongdoing.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3: On Friday, December twelfth, nineteen eighty, at approximately six forty
Speaker 3: five in the morning, the Mississippi County Sheriff's Department got
Speaker 3: a call about a female body lying on the side
Speaker 3: of the road. The location of the body was on
Speaker 3: Highway J one eight one, just south of Highway one
Speaker 3: fifty eight. The caller was a man named Arbora dal
Speaker 3: Watkins who lived nearby in Manila, Arkansas. He told police
Speaker 3: he had been en route to his job at the
Speaker 3: brown shoe factory in Osceola when he turned south on
Speaker 3: the highway and saw the body lying in the edge
Speaker 3: of a ditch. He went to a nearby business, the
Speaker 3: Reese Wholesale Furniture Outlet, in contacted the Arkansas State Police
Speaker 3: in Jonesborough, who then called the Mississippi County Sheriff's Office
Speaker 3: because the body was in their jurisdiction. Officer Richard Nash
Speaker 3: from the Mississippi County Sheriff's Department arrived at the scene
Speaker 3: at six fifty six am. He came to meet the
Speaker 3: guy who had called police and to start processing the
Speaker 3: crime scene. The woman was dressed in a striped red
Speaker 3: colored dress and velveteen jacket. She was five foot five.
Speaker 3: She weighed around one hundred and fifteen pounds. The woman
Speaker 3: was carrying a reddish brown clutch bag under her right arm.
Speaker 3: Detectives were able to go into that bag and find
Speaker 3: her ID. That's when they knew who this woman was.
Speaker 3: Barbara and Bryan, a thirty year old mother of two
Speaker 3: from a Pontou, Arkansas. It was not hard to figure
Speaker 3: out the cause of death. Barbara had massive holes blown
Speaker 3: into her body by a shotgun. The shots were so
Speaker 3: violent that pieces of her hair and skull were found
Speaker 3: twenty feet away. So once again in rural Arkansas, we
Speaker 3: have a woman whose body was found in a ditch
Speaker 3: near a highway and her car was found several miles
Speaker 3: down the road. And just like in Amanda Tussing's case,
Speaker 3: which we discussed last week, there were suspicions that a
Speaker 3: police officer may have been involved, and Barbara's murder is
Speaker 3: also still unsolved. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five
Speaker 3: years of making my true crime podcast, Helling Gone, I
Speaker 3: have learned that there is no such thing as a
Speaker 3: small town where never happens. I have received hundreds of
Speaker 3: messages from people all around the country asking for help
Speaker 3: with an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and
Speaker 3: their communities. If you have a case you'd like me
Speaker 3: and my team to look into, you can reach out
Speaker 3: to us at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six
Speaker 3: seven eight seven four four six one four five. That's
Speaker 3: six seven eight seven four four, six one four or five.
Speaker 3: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Police had responded to
Speaker 3: a murder scene along the shoulder of the road. From
Speaker 3: there things happened fast. The county corner was contacted at
Speaker 3: seven fifteen am arrangements were made to move Barber's body
Speaker 3: so that it could be tested. At seven twenty one am,
Speaker 3: Sergeant J. C. Brewer arrived on the scene. He noted
Speaker 3: the position of Barber's body. It was facing the west
Speaker 3: side of the road shoulder, her feet were facing the highway.
Speaker 3: She had what appeared to be a large shotgun wound
Speaker 3: to the chest and part of her left hand had
Speaker 3: been shot off. They found casings and shotgun shells scattered around.
Speaker 3: They also found buckshot, the casing from Barbara's watch and
Speaker 3: some in her Parts of the watch were found several
Speaker 3: feet away from the body as well. In all, police
Speaker 3: found five shotgun shells and powder dividers, and two separate
Speaker 3: locks of blonde hair. All of the hairs they found
Speaker 3: were positively identified as Barbara's. Barbara had a large bloodstain
Speaker 3: and brain material under her head. It was obvious that
Speaker 3: these were catastrophic injuries. Police also noticed something else. They
Speaker 3: noticed a ring. It had a black center mounting with
Speaker 3: eight surrounding clear settings. The interesting thing about the ring
Speaker 3: was that it appeared to investigators that it had been
Speaker 3: cut into and peeled open. From the way they describe it,
Speaker 3: it's not totally clear, but it seems like someone used
Speaker 3: a tool or something to try and remove the ring
Speaker 3: from Barbara's finger, and in the end they couldn't do it.
Speaker 3: I can't be sure because the way the report is
Speaker 3: worded is slightly odd. In my opinion, it makes it
Speaker 3: sound like the center stone may have been missing. Now,
Speaker 3: this would be very interesting because that ring was on
Speaker 3: Barbara's ring finger, the fourth finger of her left hand,
Speaker 3: the finger that's traditionally used for engagement rings and wedding bands.
Speaker 3: The body was taken to the Chickisawbu Morgue at the
Speaker 3: request of a coroner, and then the investigation continued. Investigators
Speaker 3: figured out Barbara had been shot at least twice, possibly
Speaker 3: with a twelve or sixteen gage shotgun, the type of
Speaker 3: shotguns that are used for hunting. Both of these gun sizes,
Speaker 3: by the way, are used for hunting deer and for
Speaker 3: hunting other types of game. The twelve gage is slightly larger,
Speaker 3: but both of these weapons packed serious firepower. Barbara was
Speaker 3: shot at least twice at very close range. From the
Speaker 3: position that she was in. It seemed as though she
Speaker 3: was shot in the chest from behind on the left side.
Speaker 3: This severely damaged her lungs and would have been fatal.
Speaker 3: Then she was shot again. From the description of the
Speaker 3: autopsy report of the powder burns on Barbara's hands and
Speaker 3: the fact that part of her left hand was missing,
Speaker 3: it seems as though she may have had her hand
Speaker 3: near her neck when she was shot. The state medical examiner,
Speaker 3: Dan Cook did find more wounds on Barber's head, but
Speaker 3: he said that they were most likely the result of
Speaker 3: the shotgun pellets rather than direct shots. So when people
Speaker 3: go hunting deer or other animals, they often do it
Speaker 3: with buckshot. That's literally what the ammunition is named for.
Speaker 3: The male deer, the buck. There are several large pellets
Speaker 3: that are packed into a shotgun shell.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: According to Field and Stream, buckshot is ideal for quote,
Speaker 3: close ranges inside fifty yards. Buckshot is lethal on thin
Speaker 3: skin targets from bobcats to coyotes, to leopards to people
Speaker 3: end quote. When you use a shotgun and buckshot, it
Speaker 3: comes out in a burst rather than a single shot.
Speaker 3: Forensic testing determined that the bullets had entered Barbara's left
Speaker 3: shoulder at a forty five degree angle, so it would
Speaker 3: be reasonable for police to consider the possibility Barbara knew
Speaker 3: her killer she was standing there talking to them, then
Speaker 3: she might have turned around to walk away before her
Speaker 3: killer shot her. Remember, she had her purse under her
Speaker 3: right arm. Police found a chalky white substance on the
Speaker 3: front of Barber's dress, just below her breast. They never
Speaker 3: really explained what that was. Now this is just a
Speaker 3: guest since I'm not a gun expert. I do know
Speaker 3: they use buffering powder inside shotgun shells made of polyethylene,
Speaker 3: so that might have been what it was. It could
Speaker 3: have been something totally different, like a deodorant stain, for example,
Speaker 3: So I can't say for sure, but a buffer powder
Speaker 3: is more likely in my opinion, because the medical report
Speaker 3: did point out one of Barbara's wounds had powder burn.
Speaker 3: What this means is that Barbara's killer shot her at
Speaker 3: very close range. The autopsy also mentioned Barbara was not
Speaker 3: wearing underwear. Now, this could have been a fashion choice,
Speaker 3: but we also have to consider the possibility that it
Speaker 3: might have been removed, possibly by the killer, maybe in
Speaker 3: an attempt to camouflage DNA. If the killer had any
Speaker 3: type of sexual encounter with her, either consensual or not,
Speaker 3: before her murder. There were two shots fired, so it
Speaker 3: seems as though either Barbara's killer shot her in the
Speaker 3: back and then turned her over and shot her, or
Speaker 3: shot her and then fired the fatal shot as she
Speaker 3: tried to run away. Either way, this was an execution
Speaker 3: and it was brutal and judging by the way that
Speaker 3: her killer tried to wrench the ring from her finger,
Speaker 3: this was very personal. Barbara Brian's murder happened in the
Speaker 3: same general area as the murder of Amanda Tussing, the
Speaker 3: case that we discussed in a previous episode. As we mentioned,
Speaker 3: Amanda Tussing was making a forty mile drive from her fiance,
Speaker 3: Matt Irvin's home in Jonesboro to her parents house in Dell, Arkansas.
Speaker 3: It was raining hard that night and Amanda never made
Speaker 3: it home. Her car was found part just off Highway
Speaker 3: eighteen near Monette. Her body was found days later in
Speaker 3: a ditch near Lake City. Like Barbara's, Amanda's murder is
Speaker 3: still unsolved, and even though the causes of death are different,
Speaker 3: Amanda may have been strangled and there were no gunshots involved,
Speaker 3: while Barbara was very obviously fatally shot. There are some similarities.
Speaker 3: Both women were petite, both of their bodies were recovered
Speaker 3: miles away from their cars, and both bodies were found
Speaker 3: in locations that made investigators believe the killer had to
Speaker 3: have a lot of local knowledge. A lot of people
Speaker 3: in this neck of the woods have connected Barbara and
Speaker 3: Amanda's cases over the years. One of the reasons why
Speaker 3: I was so fascinated by this case is because while
Speaker 3: there is a ton of information about Amanda Tossing, there
Speaker 3: is very little information out there about the life of
Speaker 3: Barbara and Armstrong Brian. What we do know is that
Speaker 3: she was born in Caraway, Arkansas, in Craighead County, to
Speaker 3: Flemen's Skinny Armstrong and Agnes Armstrong. Barbara's dad, Skinny, was
Speaker 3: a farmer. She grew up in a Baptist's household, like
Speaker 3: a lot of other kids in that region. She had
Speaker 3: a brother named Gary, and again, very much like in
Speaker 3: Amanda Tussing's case, when police found Barbara's purse, it had
Speaker 3: her car, keys and all of her belongings inside it.
Speaker 3: Barbara's nineteen seventy four brown Chevy Nova was parked five
Speaker 3: miles from where her body was found. All of the
Speaker 3: doors were locked. There was no sign of foul play
Speaker 3: inside the vehicle. Police found items inside the car personal
Speaker 3: items of Barbara's that did give investigators a clue about
Speaker 3: her movements right before she went missing. Inside the car,
Speaker 3: on the middle of the front seat, they found a
Speaker 3: white cloth jacket lying on top of a green overnight case.
Speaker 3: Next to the overnight bag, there was an envelope that
Speaker 3: was addressed to Barbara. So the investigator on the case, J. C. Brewer,
Speaker 3: talked to Barbara's closest girlfriend, a woman named Joyce Langston.
Speaker 3: Joyce told police she had been super close to Barbara
Speaker 3: for a long time, but she said she had stopped
Speaker 3: running around with Barbara lately and these are her words
Speaker 3: because Barbara was dating married men. Police continued to process
Speaker 3: Barbara Brian's in nineteen seventy four Chevy Nova. They wondered
Speaker 3: about the location of the car versus the location of
Speaker 3: her body. Why, if it was in fact Barbara driving,
Speaker 3: would Barbara park her car and stop there on that
Speaker 3: deserted strip of road. They took the car to the
Speaker 3: Sheriff's department. Investigators wanted to check out the vehicle's condition.
Speaker 3: They were thinking, maybe the car broke down, Maybe Barbara
Speaker 3: encountered a stranger, Maybe she stopped to pick someone up
Speaker 3: and he pulled a gun on her, or maybe she
Speaker 3: had someone with her in the car. The car broke down,
Speaker 3: something went wrong and they got into an argument. They
Speaker 3: had to consider all different types of scenarios. They saw
Speaker 3: that the gas gauge showed that the car was empty,
Speaker 3: but that was kind of a red herring because when
Speaker 3: police started the car up, it ran fine. Later they
Speaker 3: figured out the gas gauge itself was broken, but the
Speaker 3: car had plenty of gas in it. In the police
Speaker 3: report noted the vehicle exterior had dew on it, so
Speaker 3: they weren't able to lift latent prints. The vehicle was
Speaker 3: impounded to the Sheriff's department for further processing. But then
Speaker 3: I can't find anything more in this report about what
Speaker 3: happened to the car, whether they did take fingerprints. They
Speaker 3: got into her bag. They unzipped the carrier and found
Speaker 3: Barbara's stuff inside. They found a white pair of pants
Speaker 3: and maroon blouse, her makeup, her curling iron, all of
Speaker 3: the stuff that she would need to get ready, as
Speaker 3: well as two small plaster statues and an ankle bracelet.
Speaker 3: They also found photographs of two white men, so police
Speaker 3: got more information from Barbara's girlfriend, Joyce. She looked at
Speaker 3: the photos in Barbara's bag and said that one of
Speaker 3: them was Jerry Shaw. She said that Jerry Shaw and
Speaker 3: Barbara had been dating for several months and that things
Speaker 3: were going well. They found a greeting card inside and
Speaker 3: it was also written by Jerry Shaw. But then Joyce
Speaker 3: told them something shocking. Joyce said that for the past
Speaker 3: several years, Barbara had been dating someone else, a police
Speaker 3: officer named Johnny Williams. Johnny Williams lived in black Oak,
Speaker 3: which was a small town nearby by the way. This
Speaker 3: was very close to the area where Amanda Tussing's body
Speaker 3: was found. Johnny was born in nineteen forty six, so
Speaker 3: by two thousand, when Amanda Tussing was murdered, Johnny would
Speaker 3: have been fifty four years old. He served in the
Speaker 3: Navy in Vietnam and then after that was a police
Speaker 3: officer in black Oak, and he also worked in the
Speaker 3: neighboring county at the Craighead County Sheriff's office. At one
Speaker 3: point he was an Arkansas State trooper. We mentioned that
Speaker 3: he became a suspect and Amanda Tussing's death because of
Speaker 3: his alleged behavior. Apparently he had a habit of following
Speaker 3: single women around in his police cruiser. But in nineteen eighty,
Speaker 3: Johnny Williams would have been thirty four, and now we
Speaker 3: find out that he was dating Barbara. Brian Joyce told
Speaker 3: police that Johnny was not happy about the fact Barbara
Speaker 3: wanted to end things. Joyce told police Barbara had told
Speaker 3: her that Johnny Williams flew into jealous rages. On the
Speaker 3: night Barbara was shot, she had a date with Jerry Shaw.
Speaker 3: Jerry lived in Blible. That's why Barbara had her overnight bag.
Speaker 3: She had her stuff ready for a weekend with her boyfriend.
Speaker 3: Joyce said. Two weeks before Barbara was murdered, Barbara called
Speaker 3: her and told her she had a violent confrontation with Johnny.
Speaker 3: She said she had told Johnny she was dating another man,
Speaker 3: and that Johnny got extremely upset and beat on the
Speaker 3: dash of his car. Barbara told Joyce, according to the
Speaker 3: incident report, that Joe was extremely jealous. Last week, when
Speaker 3: we talked about Amanda Tussing's case, we talked about the
Speaker 3: blue light rapist. The blue light rapist impersonated a police
Speaker 3: officer and committed a string of sexual assaults in this area,
Speaker 3: but of course he had already been arrested and sent
Speaker 3: to prison by the time Amanda disappeared. A lot of
Speaker 3: people at that time talked about the possibility that Amanda
Speaker 3: Tussing might have pulled over for a real police officer,
Speaker 3: and that perhaps a real police officer had been the killer.
Speaker 3: Johnny Williams worked for the Tyronza Sheriff's Department. Tyron's is
Speaker 3: a small town in the northeast part of the state.
Speaker 3: The population is only around seven hundred people, and there
Speaker 3: are not a ton of jobs. A lot of people
Speaker 3: who live there commute to larger cities nearby, including Memphis
Speaker 3: and Jonesboro. George Jared, who he worked with on the
Speaker 3: Rebecca Gould case from season one of heleng Gon, wrote
Speaker 3: about Amanda Tussing's murder in his book Whispers in the Willows,
Speaker 3: and as part of that we mentioned the theories that
Speaker 3: Johnny Williams might have been involved in Barbara and in
Speaker 3: Amanda's murders. It seemed clear from what's out there in
Speaker 3: the public that the police suspected Johnny certainly in Barbara's death,
Speaker 3: but I had a lot of questions. It wasn't clear
Speaker 3: to me how much investigating they did, whether they ever
Speaker 3: questioned him. There was just nothing written in the media
Speaker 3: about it at all. Since Amanda's case is still open,
Speaker 3: police will not release the case file. But I hoped
Speaker 3: if we could get some information on Barber's case, maybe
Speaker 3: we could figure out whether Johnny Williams was a viable
Speaker 3: suspect in her murder or possibly in others. We did
Speaker 3: a Foyer request and we were able to get a
Speaker 3: copy of the incident report on Barbara's death. We got
Speaker 3: that from Mississippi County, Arkansas, and it turns out there
Speaker 3: was a lot more detail on record about Barbara Brin's death,
Speaker 3: enough to make me really question why Johnny Williams was
Speaker 3: never arrested. I'll get back to that in a minute.
Speaker 3: Let's go back to the crime scene. Police were trying
Speaker 3: to figure out what Barbara was doing out there on
Speaker 3: that stretch of highway. They were looking for witnesses. Now
Speaker 3: they knew from Barbara's friend Joyce, that Johnny Williams had
Speaker 3: been dating Barbara. They wanted to find out about his
Speaker 3: movements on December eleventh and December twelfth, nineteen eighty and
Speaker 3: they pretty quickly found a lead. I have actually never
Speaker 3: seen this happen before in a case that I can remember.
Speaker 3: They got a lot of information from a man named
Speaker 3: Clyde Eldridge. He told police that he would often sleep
Speaker 3: overnight at the Tyronsa Police Department. Now, Johnny Williams also
Speaker 3: had an office in the Tyrone'sa PD at that time.
Speaker 3: According to what I've been able to find, he was
Speaker 3: an Arkansas State Police trooper. Tyronza was in Poinsett County,
Speaker 3: not in Mississippi County. So once again we have a
Speaker 3: case that crossed county lines and all the potential complications
Speaker 3: that that entails. Police were trying to piece together where
Speaker 3: everyone was on the night of December eleventh. Apparently, on
Speaker 3: that night, Clyde Eldridge was sleeping in the iron's A
Speaker 3: Police station. He told investigators he got to the police
Speaker 3: station at twelve fifteen am. Clyde said that Johnny Williams
Speaker 3: was there, that Johnny was sitting at his desk at
Speaker 3: the police department watching TV. Clyde said he sat around
Speaker 3: and talked to Johnny for a few minutes. Then he
Speaker 3: said he noticed a two tone leather gun case lying
Speaker 3: across Johnny's desk, but Clyde said he didn't really think
Speaker 3: anything about it, and I'm not surprised because it was
Speaker 3: super common to have guns in that neck of the woods.
Speaker 3: Johnny was a hunter like a lot of people. The
Speaker 3: report read quote Clyde had asked Johnny if he had
Speaker 3: been hunting. Johnny stated to Clyde that he had been
Speaker 3: to Brandywine Island. Clyde advised he thought Brandywine Island was closed.
Speaker 3: Johnny Williams stated to him, if you know who to contact,
Speaker 3: you can go hunting there. End quote. So after they
Speaker 3: discussed Johnny's hunting plans, Clyde said that sometime around one
Speaker 3: or one fifteen am, Johnny was trying to make a
Speaker 3: phone call from the police department. Clyde said he'd he
Speaker 3: didn't exactly remember who the call was to, but he
Speaker 3: said that at around one point fifteen am, it did
Speaker 3: seem like Johnny made contact with the person he was
Speaker 3: trying to call. Clyde said that after that he laid
Speaker 3: down on the couch in the office. He said he
Speaker 3: went to sleep. Sometime around two or two thirty am,
Speaker 3: he heard someone leaving the police station. He explained that
Speaker 3: when the front door is unlocked, it wakes him up.
Speaker 3: He stated. He usually wakes up when someone opens the
Speaker 3: door and then gets up to see what they want.
Speaker 3: After he woke up, he walked to the front of
Speaker 3: the police department and looked outside. He noticed Johnny Williams
Speaker 3: was gone. Johnny williams jeep Eagle was not parked in front.
Speaker 3: Clyde said he wasn't exactly sure of the time. He
Speaker 3: went back to sleep, and the next thing he remembered
Speaker 3: was at four forty five am when the police chief,
Speaker 3: Floyd White, came into the police department and woke him up.
Speaker 3: This is almost like a movie about smalltown police, complete
Speaker 3: with people admitting to sleeping on their jobs at night
Speaker 3: and people crashing in the police station. Evidently, police were
Speaker 3: very suspicious of Johnny Williams, because on the very next day,
Speaker 3: in December thirteenth of nineteen eighty, Johnny Williams was interrogated.
Speaker 3: Investigators gave him a lie detector test. The investigator's name
Speaker 3: was George Stewart. They administered the polygraph at the Mississippi
Speaker 3: County Sheriff's Department. The lie detector examiner said Johnny Williams
Speaker 3: had been deceptive which means investigators concluded that Johnny Williams
Speaker 3: lied during that test. Again, I think we have to
Speaker 3: be very careful about putting too much faith into light detectors.
Speaker 3: We've talked about that a lot on this podcast. We
Speaker 3: know they're dependent on the skill of the person administering them. Also,
Speaker 3: there's a good reason why they're not admissible in court.
Speaker 3: But I do think it's really interesting that immediately the police,
Speaker 3: who sometimes people criticized for protecting one of their own,
Speaker 3: were suspicious of another officer, they do not hesitate to
Speaker 3: polygraph him. So this brings us to December fourteenth. Barbara
Speaker 3: Bryan's body has been found. Johnny Williams, she's been dating
Speaker 3: on and off for three years, is immediately pretty much
Speaker 3: a prime suspect. On December fourteenth, they informed Johnny Williams
Speaker 3: that he had failed the light detector test, and he
Speaker 3: agreed to take a second test. This time it was
Speaker 3: administered by the Arkansas State Police, and once again Johnny
Speaker 3: Williams failed that polygraph test, So now he's zero for two.
Speaker 3: Police found other officers who had seen Johnny Williams that night.
Speaker 3: They found a man named James Miles, a police officer
Speaker 3: in Leponto. He said he saw Johnny at around two
Speaker 3: thirty am on the morning of December twelfth. He said
Speaker 3: Johnny was traveling north on Highway one forty and one
Speaker 3: thirty five. He saw Johnny driving his Jeep Eagle. He
Speaker 3: recognized Johnny and he recognized the car. He said he
Speaker 3: did not see him again during his shift, which ended
Speaker 3: at three am. Investigators pulled the desklog from the Tyronsa
Speaker 3: Police department from the night of December twelfth, nineteen eighty.
Speaker 3: They searched Johnny Williams Gep Eagle in the back seat
Speaker 3: on the left armrest. There was a small piece of
Speaker 3: reddish orange string entangled in the carpeting. This was entered
Speaker 3: into evidence and cataloged. Investigators also found a pair of
Speaker 3: green hip boots and a pair of camouflage coveralls on
Speaker 3: the back floorboard. There was a rust colored vest in
Speaker 3: the back of the car too that had several Western
Speaker 3: number six shotgun shells inside it, as well as a
Speaker 3: plastic container of rifle cartridges. They had found Johnny Williams
Speaker 3: hunting gear. Immediately after Barbara Bryne's body was found. According
Speaker 3: to the incident report, police identified the man she had
Speaker 3: been dating a police officer named Johnny Williams as a suspect.
Speaker 3: He admitted that he had been in the Tyronza, Arkansas area,
Speaker 3: in the early morning hours of December twelfth. He said
Speaker 3: that the chief of Police, Floyd White, could verify this.
Speaker 3: The problem with that was Chief White told police that
Speaker 3: he had seen Johnny between the hours of four thirty
Speaker 3: and five am, but not before that. Floyd White said
Speaker 3: that he came back to the police station at around
Speaker 3: seven am that morning. He said by that time Johnny
Speaker 3: was gone, but his jeep was still parked in the lot.
Speaker 3: Then Floyd said he left again and came back a
Speaker 3: second time at eight thirty am. He said by that time,
Speaker 3: both Johnny and his vehicle were gone. Floyd said that
Speaker 3: Johnny did carry a gun, a separate gun, presumably from
Speaker 3: a service revolver, in a brown carrying case. Johnny admitted
Speaker 3: that was his dear rifle. Police interviewed Johnny. They asked
Speaker 3: him about Barbara's death, and he openly admitted he knew
Speaker 3: that because he had dated Barbara that police considered him
Speaker 3: a suspect in the case, But Johnny completely denied having
Speaker 3: anything to do with her death. He said he had
Speaker 3: a close relationship with her. He said they had d
Speaker 3: for three years and that at one point they were
Speaker 3: very serious. He said he knew she was seeing Jerry Shaw.
Speaker 3: He knew she had a date with Jerry on the
Speaker 3: night she disappeared. Johnny said that on Thursday night he
Speaker 3: went to Barbara's home, and he said that's when he
Speaker 3: found out she had a Friday night date with Jerry.
Speaker 3: He said that on that Thursday evening, prior to the homicide,
Speaker 3: he had gone to Barbara's house in an attempt to
Speaker 3: catch her coming in from work. He said he wanted
Speaker 3: to talk about their relationship, but he said he couldn't
Speaker 3: find Barbara, so he kept looking for her throughout the night.
Speaker 3: But his story was that he'd never connected with Barbara.
Speaker 3: This seems to conflict with him telling officers that he
Speaker 3: found out about the date with Jerry on Thursday night.
Speaker 3: I'm not exactly sure what the story there is if
Speaker 3: he's mixing up Thursday night and Friday night, but it
Speaker 3: doesn't seem to make any sense. However, he does not
Speaker 3: get called on it. Police were very suspicious of Johnny.
Speaker 3: He was jealous. He was seen driving around in the
Speaker 3: early morning hours of December twelfth. He admits that he
Speaker 3: was in Laponto, the town where Barbara lived, at two
Speaker 3: thirty am Friday morning, looking for Barbara. You also have
Speaker 3: an officer from Laponto saying that he saw Johnny driving
Speaker 3: on Highway one forty in that area, and Johnny had
Speaker 3: an alibi another woman who apparently came to the police
Speaker 3: department and picked him up. He said that he spent
Speaker 3: the rest of the night with this other woman. This
Speaker 3: other woman's name was Gay Couch, and eventually Gay Couch
Speaker 3: became Gay Williams. She and Johnny Williams got married. We
Speaker 3: requested an officer fitness report on Johnny Williams and it
Speaker 3: came back clean. There is no suggestion that Gay knew anything,
Speaker 3: by the way, and even if for argument's sake, she
Speaker 3: did suspect something, because they were married, she probably could
Speaker 3: not be forced to testify against her own husband. There's
Speaker 3: nothing on Johnny Williams record, at least publicly, that would
Speaker 3: alert anyone to his fellow officers suspicions about him. Eventually,
Speaker 3: Johnny Williams got cancer. He was sick for several years,
Speaker 3: fought back, but then a few months later he developed
Speaker 3: heart problems. He died in twenty ten. He was sixty
Speaker 3: three years old. In George Jared's book Whispers in the Willows,
Speaker 3: George mentions that he heard that on his deathbed, Johnny
Speaker 3: was questioned again about Amanda Tussing's murder, but denied having
Speaker 3: anything to do with it. After he left law enforcement,
Speaker 3: Johnny founded a company called Williams Trucking Company. And by
Speaker 3: the way, there are rumors Johnny was fired from law enforcement,
Speaker 3: but I can't find any official record of that. As
Speaker 3: we know from this podcast, there are a lot of
Speaker 3: instances where departments choose to quietly allow an officer to
Speaker 3: leave on his own terms so they can avoid the
Speaker 3: bad publicity. But to me, it's terrifying that these members
Speaker 3: of law enforcement, who have such an enormous amount of power,
Speaker 3: are out driving around and the public is completely unaware
Speaker 3: of any of these pretty terrifying suspicions that there fell
Speaker 3: officers have about them. Johnny and Gay eventually had children.
Speaker 3: They were still married when he died. From what I
Speaker 3: can find in public records, it seems as though Barbara
Speaker 3: Brian's parents and her brother Gary have all passed away.
Speaker 3: So what are we left with? Because there seemed to
Speaker 3: be a lot of missing pieces in this case file.
Speaker 3: For example, I never saw any mention of testing those
Speaker 3: fingerprints from the car again. I never found any interviews
Speaker 3: with Jerry Shaw, the man Barbara was dating. It seems
Speaker 3: like everyone kind of forgot about Barbara's case, but we haven't.
Speaker 3: I want to see if we can uncover more information
Speaker 3: about these police officers who may have thought their secrets
Speaker 3: were buried forever. Barbara Brian, Amanda Tussing and all the
Speaker 3: other victims whose bodies were found along random strips of
Speaker 3: Arkansas roads deserve that. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen
Speaker 3: Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is a production
Speaker 3: of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and
Speaker 3: narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts
Speaker 3: and Miranda Hawkins. Music contributed by Ben Solee. Special thanks
Speaker 3: to Amy Tubbs for her research assistance. Noah Camer mixed
Speaker 3: and scored this episode. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr,
Speaker 3: and Elsie Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad free by
Speaker 3: subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 3: You can follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gone Pod.
Speaker 3: If you have a case you'd like me and my
Speaker 3: team to look into, you can reach out to us
Speaker 3: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight
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Speaker 3: eight seven four four six' one four.
Speaker 1: Five school Of humans