1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Radio Radio Radio Commies, a myth and Bullshit, a radio 2 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 1: phonic novella Look Radio hosted by malamun Welcome back to 3 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: Look at a Radio. This is the FM and this 4 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: is Malamunos. Welcome back, Loki Basso, Lucky Texas. Look at 5 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: that our radios where we celebrate the brilliance and legacies 6 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: of women and fems of color. Thank you for tuning 7 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: into Bronco our once again, once again our radio phonic novella. 8 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: We're really excited about. We're always excited about every new 9 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: couple people like, we're constantly but today is gonna be 10 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: really special, incredibly cute. We have a special guest. Yes, 11 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: we have a amazing woman from another podcast from the 12 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: East Coast, so I'm gonna let her introduce herself, So 13 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: take it away. Love. Hey guys, Uh, this is Joy. 14 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: I'm from the Unwrappled podcast. It's a fashion podcast. We're 15 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: based out of New York City and I'm like really 16 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: privileged to be here. And then you're cute set up 17 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: with your smiling faces. Yes, shout out once again to 18 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: a Spasso et nine. Again we're recording from We're recording 19 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: from Spasso and Boil Heights. They have a community radio 20 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: program here, they have books, they have art. So thank 21 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: you to Myra and Nico for for having us here 22 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: and helping us with our setup and our technical difficulty. 23 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 1: Always yes, so would we do without y'all? The sound 24 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: plotty is just at a hundred at this point, so 25 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: I'll shout out to y'all. So that's where we're at. 26 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: We're so happy to have you here. Thank you for 27 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: having me. Yes, do you want to tell us a 28 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: little bit about your fashion podcast for our listeners? So 29 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: it was it was started by Jasmine and Dana who 30 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: are a co host with and we really do discuss 31 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: everything from fashion and paul Tics to kind of the 32 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: social political issues around fashion, to history of women in pants. 33 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: So we really do cover everything and we enjoy every 34 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: moment of it, even the grueling hours of research. If 35 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: we do um and it really pays off and our 36 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: our fan base is growing, which is really exciting, and 37 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: we're hoping to do our first meetup. We're doing any 38 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: conjunction with the Fashion Studies Journal, so that's very exciting 39 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: of you. Our first meetup, So this is happening April 40 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: one in New York. Hopefully if we get big enough, 41 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 1: we'll come to the West coast. Will be very exciting. Yes, 42 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: most loves you know. Um, you gotta you gotta check 43 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: out that event if Yeah, so let's just should we 44 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: just get into it. We are prepared. Yeah. Joy has 45 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: an amazing, amazing done some amazing research for our today, 46 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: so we're just gonna get into it. We're going to 47 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: be discussing the wardrobes of two of our favorite divas. 48 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: One of them you all already know about, and the 49 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: other hopefully you do already know about her, but in 50 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: case you don't, you will learn about her today. Yeah, 51 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about Ema Sumac and La Lupe. Uh. And 52 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: I just created a little power point for myself to 53 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: keep me on track of the conversation. Uh. And I 54 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: was inspired because it was we were talking about ways 55 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: to collaborate. Um and you guys said that you did 56 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: a history podcast when Ema Sumac, and I was like, WHOA, 57 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: I haven't heard that name in so long, Like my 58 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 1: dad had some albums, So it's kind of come full 59 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: circle in a very strange way. I love it. So 60 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: that's really exciting. Um. So Ema Sumach, I mean you 61 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: guys have already known because you you listened to the 62 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: other podcast, but I wanted to talk about her wardrobe 63 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: because that's my background. Uh yeah, I went to school 64 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: for fashion studies. So one of the things that really 65 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: attracted me to looking at this subject even further was 66 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: her her embracing of her Peruvian roots. Um and in 67 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: doing that in the dress, because oftentimes people who come 68 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what culture they come from, they when 69 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: they're doing something that's culture centric in their music, they 70 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: often try to saturate the market with a more popular image. Um. 71 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: And she tried to balance that in her dress, especially 72 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: on stage, and I think that's really impressive because a 73 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: lot of people just abandon it so they can get more, 74 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 1: you know, more butts than the seats, as they say. 75 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: UM So, I really enjoy her jewelry first and foremost 76 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: because it kind of reflected I think Incan symbolism, but 77 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: also the symbolism of her just her her her community, 78 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: her immediate local community. UM. I don't know what attracted 79 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: you to kind of her style. Yeah, I mean for me, 80 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: I think it's all the jewelry that she wears, Like 81 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: you said, all the gold, all the silver, the headpieces, 82 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: the feathers, everything is just you know, complete adornment. And 83 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: I think that there's something really powerful in the way 84 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: she represents herself on stage. And it is a performance. 85 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: You know, whether or not she was um as one 86 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: of our listeners said, maybe she was can hold into 87 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: this type of performance, we don't really know. She's not 88 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 1: here to like really speak for herself and to give 89 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: herself agency. But I think like our job, as you know, 90 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: as a podcast podcast hosts, like we want to give 91 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: her agency in that, you know, That's what I think, 92 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: because I think she had um, she had the fortunate UM, 93 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: I guess privilege in a way to um take control 94 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: of what she looked like a little bit more than 95 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: a lot of other artists at the time, a lot 96 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: of other Latina artists of the time. UM. And we're 97 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: talking about La Loupe and how it's kind of we'll 98 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: see how she went, maybe pushed it further or not. UM. 99 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: So I mean it is, yeah, like you said, you 100 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: don't really have ways to give her agency. I know. 101 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: One of the things that I looked at in research 102 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: for this was a Smithsonian like short video of these 103 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: two vintage dealers going to her if you want to 104 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: call it her archive UM. It looked like it was 105 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: an apartment potentially inhabited by the person that is in 106 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: charge of the estate, the makeup artist UM, which was 107 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: a very strange thing in and of itself, but he 108 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: highlighted so much of her jewelry, like we were talking 109 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: about and UM kind of how it survived. You kind 110 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: of see how much she really put into the how 111 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: much she put into UM not only like looking the part, 112 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: but representing her people like it was important to her. 113 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: I agree. I mean one of the pieces that he 114 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: shows us is I think it's a brooch and it's 115 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: of a sun, and it's a gold and silver So 116 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: I think, like, if you know anything about Pru, like 117 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: you know how gold and silver really plays into everything 118 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: you know as a part of the culture. And then 119 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: also like Inca's are you know people of the sun 120 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: of the sun. So I think that that's the really 121 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,239 Speaker 1: beautiful way that she paid tribute to her ancestry in 122 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: that performance exactly. One of the other pieces that stood 123 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: out to me was a feather like mini skirt and 124 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: it was heavily embellished, So I always think about like 125 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: the person wearing it, UM, And of course this is 126 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: another you know, tying feathers in with heavy embellishment is 127 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: kind of a modern I think, a modern approach to again, 128 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: UM representing her people, which I think is just so 129 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: interesting how people maneuver between UM a modern or contemporary 130 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: look like adding these embellishments that aren't necessarily traditional with this, 131 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: like feather represented represented where it's today, UM representing UM, 132 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: you know, Incoan culture. So that's one of the pieces 133 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: that really stood out to me. But they didn't spend 134 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: a whole lot of time on in the short video, 135 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: and it comes out at the end, I believe exactly. 136 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: And she she wore feathers quite a bit too. UM. 137 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: So I think it's an important to note that feathers 138 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: were very important to her and also just you know, 139 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: to practically speaking, it's extremely expensive and luxurious to have 140 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: feather pieces made for you UM. Let alone all the 141 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: embellishment that went into that skirt. UM. Was there an 142 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: anthing else that stood out to you? UM? I mean, 143 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: I think we touched everything. I wish that the video 144 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: was longer. Yeah, I wish there was. I think there 145 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: was there was a lot, but I would love to 146 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: see like these pieces we were talking about UM in 147 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: a museum. Yeah, some type of space, you know, where 148 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: folks could actually you know, learn about the pieces and 149 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: there'll be like sort of history of when she was 150 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: wearing it, what performance she was wearing it for, what 151 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: it's inspired by, I think, and then of a narrative 152 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: about it because the Smithsonian thing we'll talk about it 153 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: later with they also is about like what kind of 154 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: what is their legacy through dress but also through just 155 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: like items there, everyday items and how important it is 156 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: to creating a narrative that is easy for people to 157 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: understand because it's hard to kind of just like probe 158 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: the psychology of a person looking at their stuff is 159 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: a is a fun way and like a more democratic 160 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: way to do to do that to learn about the person. 161 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: So hopefully, um, yeah, maybe some stuff will surface in 162 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: a museum. Yeah, yeah, one of the one of the 163 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: other photos that kind of stood out to me. Um, 164 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: there's several, but she had a spread in nineteen fifty 165 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: Life Magazine, which is American publication, which is I think 166 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: she had now breached over into the US market at 167 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: this point in nineteen fifty, I believe, yes, Um, And 168 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: just for reference, she was born in nineteen twenty two, 169 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: so um. In nineteen fifty she was in the Life 170 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: magazine cover shoot. Uh, and she looked so glamorous. Everything 171 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: was in black and white, which is unfortunate so you 172 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: can't really see, but the silhouette she wore were very structured. Um. 173 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: She liked to show her arms as is traditional and 174 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: for most oppera singers is to kind of like show 175 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,599 Speaker 1: the decollage as you will is a word as a 176 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: French word. Um, but yeah, that it was interesting how 177 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: regal she came across, and they tried to also make 178 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: her looked like she was in her everyday life. Um. 179 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: That was fascinating to me in that approach because we 180 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: don't really get to see how things are made the 181 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: black and white photos. Still you still get to see 182 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: fit and kind of how she moved throughout her day 183 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: and her I guess, like her persona with her family 184 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: or like she's cooking and like I don't know if 185 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: you saw the photo, but she had trapping onions in 186 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: this like obviously down I think she is. I think 187 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: it's onions. It's oh no, this meat. Now it is 188 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: a piece of meat. It's actually like a deer head 189 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 1: and she's cutting into it. But she's wearing Like, yeah, 190 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: for sure, she's wearing I just don't even I don't 191 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: even know. Like it's like it's a head called the 192 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: carcass of an animal. Yeah, I think she's like de 193 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: eying it. She's like harvesting it essentially in this cautore 194 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: dress or at least like a well made dress. You 195 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: can really tell. And maybe we'll come up with some 196 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: way to share this with people because these images like 197 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: stood out to me because this is like a very 198 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: powerful image. Is this woman who is seen as like 199 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: luxurious um and she's just in her home, but she's 200 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: also in contour cutting at me, it's like this very 201 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: weird I don't know what I'm supposed to think of 202 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: her now as an artist. I love it because she 203 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: it's a very it's it's a really powerful photo and 204 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: it's also very simple in the in that she's not 205 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: wearing any jewelry. Her hair is down, but it's curled, 206 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: you know, and just it looks so natural, like it 207 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 1: looks like a photo of like one of my primas 208 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: or like one of my thea's like from back in 209 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: the day, like you know. So I really like it 210 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: because it's it's really relatable to me in that way. M. 211 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: That's nice. Yeah, it's it's very interesting because I have 212 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: more questions now than answers by looking at that image, 213 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,719 Speaker 1: and just because there's just so much power in a 214 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: woman like cooking for herself but wearing core and like 215 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: basically slaying the opera scene of her time in her kitchen. Yeah, 216 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: I love it. Yes, thank you so much for bringing 217 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: this photo. Amazing things that you're pointing out. Really, this 218 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: is what I do. Yes, I love it. I'm still 219 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: gad that we can capture that here on this podcast today. UM, 220 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: do you want to move on to the next caries 221 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: um or the next Actually, before we moved to La Loupe, 222 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: I want to talk about the feather dress that you brought. 223 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so the feather dress. UM, it's so fascinating 224 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: because she woren't to perform in more than once. I 225 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: do know that, UM, and this is like very cursory. Again, 226 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about again about the lack of information, um, 227 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: in concrete places about their costume or about each character's costume. 228 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: But she wore on more than one occasion. And UM, 229 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: I'm looking at a black and white photo in a 230 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: color photo and you again with you know, black and 231 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: white photography, which was very prevalent at the time she 232 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: was popular, you don't get to see that it's you know, 233 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: made of like pink purple fuchia and like white feathers, 234 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: and the bodice is this like white, like it's that 235 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: if you were just with sweetheart neckline. Like it's just 236 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: I'm thinking that I may want to recreate this exact dress, 237 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: I think after taking and I think I absolutely have to, 238 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: and also the I um again, hopefully we'll be able 239 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: to post these photos. But it's just so fascinating how 240 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: structured all of her items are. Um and I think 241 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: of like a Charles James for instance, and a lot 242 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: of her clothes look like kind of a muted Charles James. 243 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: So it's still very structured. Like this dress, looking at it, 244 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: even though it's only held up by feathers, it looks 245 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: like it could sit like if you just dropped it, 246 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: it just could sit upright. Absolutely, it absolutely does. And 247 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: I think that if you think about the time, I 248 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: feel like that was the style, like it really structured, 249 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: like silhouette type of dresses or that type of wear. 250 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: But what's so fascinating between this and why I compare 251 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: it to some of what she were to Charles James, 252 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: is because I think she was used to wearing um, 253 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: like a thicker, more constructed garment than I guess the 254 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 1: average woman of the time that could afford address to 255 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: begin with like this. UM, So I think she really 256 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: wanted more structure than other people would. UM. There were 257 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: I mean people at this time. There wasn't course, of course, 258 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: but there were girdles like people wore them constantly. UM. 259 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: In an episode we did on Unravel, we talked about 260 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: UM hidden figures and how the actresses actually had to 261 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: wear girdles. And this is roughly the same time whereas 262 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: it we'll say, like a ten year difference. But then 263 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: you know, the thirties through the fifties, women were wearing girdles, UM, 264 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: and it was required for you to wear a girdle 265 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: that was like the thing you wore. So just thinking 266 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: about the inside and how uncomfortable that might have been. Absolutely, 267 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: can you tell me where you found this? Um? This 268 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: because someone bought this piece, right, someone bought So I 269 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: just went on a Google search and I did UM 270 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: because I sort of got frustrated. I looked at primary 271 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: not primary sources. Sorry, I looked at secondary sources. First 272 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: thing I would find like at least a couple of books, 273 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: but they're really isn't like a lot. So then I 274 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: went to blogs, which is like not the greatest. I 275 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: couldn't write a paper, um, but just to look at 276 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: what is available. Um. Going back to the Smithsonian video, 277 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: So the makeup artist that you see in that video, UM, 278 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: I believe is selling some of her items on first DIBs, 279 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: which is like an auction site. It's a um where 280 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: people sell everything and it's usually a hot pretty high 281 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: price points. So this one was sold and I don't 282 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: know who it was sold too, because the most auction 283 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: site is anonymous usually UM, so I don't know who 284 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: it wound up with, Like who wound up with the dress? Interesting, 285 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: but a lot of her stuff has gotten sold in 286 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: that way. And you know we were talking earlier that 287 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: we and I agree with you that like there should 288 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: be this should be sacred, some of the stuff should 289 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: be saying, I don't think we should worship items. But 290 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: going back to again what I said earlier, it's so 291 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: much easier to communicate. It's the reason why people felt 292 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: that paintings conveyed a message to you people that were illiterate, 293 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: uh in the sixteenth and seventeenth century because the people 294 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: think differently, uh and just explaining it verbally doesn't always 295 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: get to the point of graphs. Yeah, I agree, and 296 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: I think you know, something also we were talking about 297 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: is that you know, there isn't at least in my opinion, 298 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: in what I've seen, what I've researched, you know, museums 299 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: that I go to living in l A, there's not 300 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: very much content about Peruvians that have immigrated here, let 301 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: alone proving artists. Right, So I think have been able 302 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: to see this in the type of museum or it's 303 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: just something like even like an online archive right of 304 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: photos would even be accessible, you know. So I think 305 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: having that, I think would be really important. Um. And 306 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: then in the research that I did for our last capiculo, 307 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: the first one we did on her um Dita Vontes 308 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: owns address strapless heart, you know, heart shaped black dress, 309 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: and it's of course beautiful on Da Vontees. But that's 310 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: that's kind of weird, you know that it's you know, 311 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: her A lot of people literally it's just like out there, um, 312 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: which is fascinating because it depends on what we as 313 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: a culture, and it could be any culture prioritize. That's 314 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: really what it comes down to, because if people prioritized 315 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: her items, it wasn't like she she just fell off 316 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: the phase of the map. She was performing almost up 317 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: until you know, ten years before she passed. So it's 318 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 1: interesting that people didn't prioritize her collection. It's unfortunate. Yeah, 319 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: I agree. I agree. Um, is there anything else you 320 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: want to touch on? Just look at the Life magazine shoot. 321 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: We should find we should maybe post that link in 322 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: the description it's or something. But yeah, that's it's fascinating 323 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: because it shows womanhood in a very different way than 324 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: what you would expect of an opera singer from the 325 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: forties and fifties. I agree, Yeah, Um, so should we 326 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,160 Speaker 1: go on a song break? Yeah? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, 327 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: good intro. Yeah, let's do a song break and then 328 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: we can talk about lap afterwards, which I'm really excited. 329 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: Or Cara Belly ros and and and friends and and 330 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: and and spend and and and and spends and and 331 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 1: and and sends and and and spends Delly roads and 332 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: spend the bell rang patents and and spends bell rang 333 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: paends and and spends um from from from from from 334 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: from from from from of it and no ship. Hello everybody, 335 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: and welcome back. UM to look at our radio, welcome 336 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: back to Brown Girl our and I'm jumping in. You 337 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: might have noticed I was quiet. I was absent for 338 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: a little bit. I had to take a crisis call. 339 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm on call right now, um as we record, because 340 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: the crisis line never sleeps seven. So we are now 341 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: going to jump into our conversation about La Loupe, which 342 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: so ready for Yes, I have been wanting to talk 343 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: about La Loupe for months. I've been texting Mala like 344 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: can we talk about Lupe? Can we talk about So 345 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: I'm so happy that we're finally able to bring her 346 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: into the conversation. Now is the time time, so joy 347 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: take us away. Like with Imaupe is another record, like 348 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: a couple of records from another country that I listened 349 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: to when I was a kid, that my dad had, 350 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: So this is like going back in time. These are 351 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: the only these two artists like I wouldn't have found 352 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: otherwise without my dad, So big ups, but like big 353 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: est to my dad for introducing me to them. So 354 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: Lupe is like a fierce character, and her costumes reflected that. 355 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: So Ima Sumac was a Um, she was the opera diva, 356 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: so it made sense that her clothes would be outlandish. Um. 357 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: But La Lupi, on the other hand, you're she came 358 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: from kind of a more traditional way you get into 359 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: music and Cuba, which is doing like big bandy type 360 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: of stuff. So her dresses were nice, she had them tailored. 361 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: But when she broke out of that scene is when 362 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: it got super crazy and her performances got a little 363 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: I mean, okay, crazy is a weird word. Controversy. One 364 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: of her performances, which I'm sure you found in your research, Yeah, 365 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: where she ripped other clothes off clothes during a performance 366 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: and like the crowd. Yeah, the crowd like enjoyed it, 367 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: it seems. However, I mean it was broadcast now, like 368 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: part of it was broadcast, so that was the I 369 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: think that was the issue. Um, what was that? Like, 370 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: you know, it was like national tele what year around 371 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: what year did this occur? I think it was the sixties. Yeah, 372 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: wh she she was born in ninety nine, so she 373 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: was born seventeen years after so that's important. I think 374 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: It's interesting too, they existed at the same time that 375 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: they rose to I guess their meteoric kite at different 376 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: times and much different times. Yeah, what I love Aba 377 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 1: Lupe is she's just like I feel like, the ultimate Mala, 378 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: like the ultimate batty, Like she really gave no fox. 379 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: And you can see that in her music, like her 380 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: in her lyrics, like I have so many favorites of 381 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: La Lupe, you know, but in her lyrics and her performances, 382 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: you can just tell like she owned everything that she did. 383 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: She didn't have a fuck when it got her exiled 384 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: to Mexico, so you know, she was it was serious. 385 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: It wasn't just like I'm I don't know. Some oftentimes 386 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, I have the privilege, so therefore 387 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: I can just stand on my VI. But she didn't 388 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: really have the privilege to speak, and she spoke. You know, 389 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: she's she was a feminist when it was not cool, 390 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like when you got exiled 391 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: from your country, you know. So that's I mean, that's 392 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: important note. And I'm sure her performances did not help 393 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: with that, because you know we were talking earlier's based 394 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: on you know, Centuria culture. Some of her the way 395 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: she performed, um, and she she was very devout. And 396 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: then later I read in an article she converted to 397 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: Christian and which is very fascinating. She and then she 398 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: started singing at like churches and so she would say 399 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: church music. This was like basically at the end of 400 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: her career. She Yeah, she totally made like the switch, 401 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: which I think is really interesting because I don't know, Joy, 402 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: if you've watched Grus, Lola is supposed to be La Lupe. Oh, 403 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: I didn't know that, which I think is really upsetting 404 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: to me because Lola is just this very like white guana, 405 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: and they like try to base her off of La Loupe, 406 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: and I just it doesn't really do La Loupe any justice. 407 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: You know. In a lot of the narrative people um 408 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: and this is totally not fashion related, but anywhere people 409 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: people really like to see her fail. A lot of 410 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 1: the articles that I see kind of like relished in 411 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: the fact that she wasn't doing very well, especially later 412 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: in her life, which is very bizarre because she was 413 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: still popular. Um maybe I don't know the beef I 414 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: didn't do. You know, a mountainous amount of research to 415 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: see if her and Cela Cruz were in like some 416 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: huge rivalry. I have a lot to say, okay, because 417 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: like I don't, I don't understand. I think that's where 418 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: the turn happened, because she was so she was you know, 419 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: she used to be better than Celia. She was she 420 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: was recording with which he was lying that the little 421 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: of the time for Fania, and like the Sala scene 422 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: like he was it and he was working with La Loupe. 423 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: So I actually don't know if they actually had a 424 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: rivalry from what I've read, they actually didn't really know 425 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: each other, or they just a relationship. But I think 426 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 1: that because of the time, Fania couldn't have two badass 427 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: women performing and dark skinned women's exactly to Afro latinas 428 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: dealing all the shine, dealing all the shine, and they 429 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: couldn't like apoyard or support or uplift both of them 430 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: and had to be one of the others. So we're 431 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: going to put them in competition, of course, and history 432 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 1: I feel puts them into competition when they work from 433 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: completely different genres like Queen of La right and Lupe 434 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: is queen of soul for the most part, like Latin jazz. Yeah, 435 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: and she was also she was poised to kind of 436 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: take Latin jazz out of just Latino culture and Latino 437 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: culture and make it huge. Um, and I don't really know. 438 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 1: I think because she struggled after you know, leaving Cuba 439 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: to go to Mexico, and it just kind of not 440 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: a downward spiral even though it's you know, people say 441 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: that she had a drug It was painted that she 442 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: had a drug issue. But like, which artist hasn't had 443 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: a drug issue? Um? I mean they're coping mechanism, right right, Um, 444 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: Like Ray Charles is like a great singer, but he 445 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: had some some drug issu us, you know, just right, 446 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: And she's kind of uplifted as a person that is 447 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: damaged but tried to pull through it, and you know, 448 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: tried to. So it's interesting that they paint her, however, 449 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: like she was like a crazy affil Latino woman. But 450 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: right exactly, Um, should we get to the Let's get 451 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: to the even though gossip is so yeah exactly. Um. 452 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: So I have a promo photo of her. I think 453 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: it's one of a kind. Yeah, one of a kind. 454 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: And what stood out to me when I saw this 455 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: was she looks exactly like Rihanna. I was thinking the 456 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: same thing Rihanna. Yes, especially in the picture with the hat. Yes, 457 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: the actual what made it to the album cover um, 458 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: which then brought me to like what she was wearing 459 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: and like it wasn't just the look because she looks 460 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: like Rihanna, but there it's the puffy sleeves and kind 461 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: of like this, like the short wig and their skin 462 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: tone is the same. And it's so interesting how she 463 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: in almost every single look I've seen of her, even 464 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: perform performing like you know YouTube videos. She was so 465 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: ahead of the time. UM. And I don't mean that 466 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: in like a quippy way, like you know, she was 467 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: so ahead of her time, but she really was. There 468 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: was no one dressing like her and performing like her. UM. 469 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: I know that she gets comparisons to a few um 470 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: African American artists at the time, but they weren't they 471 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: had a traditional look because they were moving through traditional 472 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: record labels. UM. So yeah, she I don't know, I 473 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: just don't know. She looks like she's coming out of 474 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: the eighties here and she's like fifteen years ahead, So 475 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of that. UM. I 476 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: love how she and Rihanna both can play with like 477 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 1: big oversized baggy pieces, but they're still sexy and tailored somehow, 478 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: you know, like it's baggy with a purpose and it's 479 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: still sensual. And I'm also looking there's a lot of 480 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: like ties happening, Like in the promo photo she's wearing 481 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: these like pleather leather pants that are tied up at 482 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: like from knee to the ankle. What. I don't even know. 483 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: There's not a lot of people, you know, wearing things 484 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 1: like that, even if it's for I mean share maybe, 485 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: but she did. She did a good jumpsuit. She stayed 486 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 1: pretty traditional to the jumpsuit and just maneuvered around that, 487 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: but nothing like a big, puffy but tailored stinch like 488 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: it looks like Yoshi Yamamoto forgat's sake. So it's just 489 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: so fascinating that she was doing things and creating concepts 490 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: well ahead of her time where her people were, because 491 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure who was in control of what 492 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: she looked like either, they probably both were. I don't 493 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: know that they had that they had their boat like 494 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 1: they I'm sure they have teams because they all do. 495 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: But I'm sure she had a lot to say, I 496 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: think in control and how she performed because she broke 497 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: away from I guess it would be like, I don't know, 498 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: she broke away from the scene like the all that 499 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 1: Big band, but that's not really accurate. But she broke 500 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: away from that scene, and I would say, all hell 501 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: broke loose in a good way, and again an empowering 502 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: representation of like what a woman could be in an 503 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: afric Latina and an African American woman could be. Um 504 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: really breaking that mold because we're talking about a time 505 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: frame that's sixties seventies, which you know, there's liberation, but 506 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: like you know, as we know today, we haven't still 507 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: really gotten that far as far as rights and social 508 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: understanding of one another. And she really was breaking those barriers. So, yeah, 509 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: the sixties were hot. They were a hot time racially, 510 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: and I mean in Cuba that wasn't too far after 511 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: the I mean that's in the midst of the revolution 512 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: and all that crazy right that was going on that 513 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: was all occurring at the same time, which is again 514 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: you know, going back to her being exiled to Mexico, 515 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: um and that I think it was a pretty big 516 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: blow to her career and how she manufactured herself for 517 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: the public. You know, when you do these promos, and 518 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: we were talking about like lack resources. A lot of 519 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: the photos I saw that were clear good images of 520 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: her garments were one album covers, which is a good resource. 521 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: But I wish we had more photos. I wish she 522 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: had a life magazine. I wish there was more information 523 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: on like what she wore and kind of like where 524 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: it was, because a lot of the photos were just 525 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: kind of photos you don't know where they came from, 526 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: like when they were taken. You didn't see necessarily a 527 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: lot of like editorial shoots with her because she it 528 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: was hard for her to market herself I think UM. 529 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: But she refused to kind of be other than herself, 530 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: which is also important thing to note that she kind 531 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: of didn't care. Can I curse thee here? I don't 532 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: want to. Yeah, yeah, she didn't give a fuck. She didn't. 533 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: I mean, she wanted to be successful up until she died. 534 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: She wanted to be successful and performed, but she wanted 535 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: to be herself. And that comes across Oh, there's two 536 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: photo photo albums photobus albums, record albums for Definitely and 537 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: for the Queen. And she's wearing kind of a I 538 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: think like a been off of UM in my opinion, 539 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: is like a stereotype of what Santeria. You know, performers 540 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: were performers, but um, you know Santana, thank you my ignorance. 541 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: So I mean I think it's, you know, from what 542 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: I've seen in my own own time, I think that 543 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of like a spinoff of that. And I 544 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: don't know if that contributed to how Americans look at 545 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: that culture at all. Um, But I don't know if 546 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: she's helping. So, but it's there. We're just dresses, definitely, 547 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: We're just just as she looks. She she looks powerful 548 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: and strong, but I don't know what message that gives 549 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: to her community. Um. In the same way of an 550 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: Ema Sumac, which we you know, discussed that there was 551 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: mixed reviews about how she presented herself to you know, again, 552 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: both of these women when they presented themselves to an 553 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: American and European audience, right, so like critiques from their 554 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: own community folks within. Yeah, yeah, I think that we 555 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: tend to see like one of one of two things, right, 556 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: Either like the home community is like excited that there's 557 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: representation and that they're doing the damn thing, or they 558 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: feel like why is this traditional style or this traditional 559 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: religion being like commercialized or is it on the cover 560 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: of a CD to be I wonder, yeah, exactly, I 561 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: wonder which of the two or other receptions you know, 562 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: she was they were having for her. And I think 563 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: I think also about now and how we yearn for 564 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: any representation of ourselves and things. So it's this really 565 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: weird conflict of like what we experience now and like 566 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: to to you know, the two thousands versus then and 567 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: how it's perceived. Because I think if someone came out 568 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: with an album any of her album covers now and 569 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: we're very proud of who they were, Um, either we 570 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: get drowned out because that's kind of like I'm a 571 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: Fierce Woman is now a you know, kind of like 572 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: a product line item to like sell to people. Or 573 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: maybe people would be inspired now and there wouldn't be 574 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: as much a critique because it's just not available and 575 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: like people aren't doing it anymore in the same way 576 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: you see that like with like a Baby. They're from 577 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: Kuba as well, and like they're the Yoruba culture like 578 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: definitely plays in so their their entire music, their music. Yeah, 579 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: and it'll be interesting to see how far they get 580 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: because they you know, with the image that they have 581 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: because often people change, you know, they change, people change anyway, 582 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: but you know, to try to either get more album sales, 583 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: get more attention, or if they'll you know, they'll stay 584 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: true to themselves and just you know, slay the way 585 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: they want to slay. Yeah, I hope they can just 586 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: doing it like how they are because they're double. Yeah. 587 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: I love what they love what they do. We haven't 588 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: talked about them. We should should actually next time their 589 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: hair alone, I could spend oh speaking of hair, La 590 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: Loupe has an amazing wig game. I have to say, 591 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: like she was the short wigs, like she's like she 592 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: wore these cute bob wigs were not her real hair 593 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: because the way that they were like out to hear, 594 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: there's no way your hair does that. Well, you can't 595 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: see this, but her hair was like, you know, two 596 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: inches from her head, there's hair doesn't do that. But 597 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: but there's one footage of her and this is like 598 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: later in her career, and she definitely looks like she's 599 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: on drugs. It's unfortunate, but it's also makes for a 600 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: very entertaining performance. Um she has hair like down to 601 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: her butt, and it's these huge, like tight curls, and 602 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,719 Speaker 1: she's she used she didn't use like European hair if 603 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: you want straight hair. So it's very interesting. Like her 604 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: her wig game is amazing. I love that. And I 605 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: did you notice any type of like when she used 606 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: which types of wigs for what styles? Did she have 607 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: any type of like a pattern, a tendency to like 608 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: match short wigs with a certain type of look or 609 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: long wigs with a different type of look. So it 610 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: seems like when the less clothes she wore, the longer 611 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: her hair was. But that's the closest I would get 612 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: the shorter like bob style that she had or like 613 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: pixie bob. I don't know what to call it. And 614 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: it was kind of um. She wore traditions like that, 615 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: She wore that more often. We also talked talked about 616 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 1: her taking off her clothes at one performance. Traditionally she 617 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: would take off her shoes before a performance, or she 618 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: would take off her wrap and tight around the microphone 619 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: or like do some weird thing, whether she would do 620 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: like a reveal. So her taking her clothes off, while 621 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: again we're talking about drug use might have been attributed 622 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: to that it's also her performance style was like her 623 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: kind of release her ritual. Yeah, and you saw her 624 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: you saw like not to use sexual terms too much, 625 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: but she saw kind of like this release of expression 626 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,919 Speaker 1: at a certain moment in her performances. Um, which again 627 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: I think you know ed unravel we talk about all 628 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 1: the time, is how the person wears the clothes is 629 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: just as indicative of the clothes themselves, where they came from, 630 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: how she purchased them. It kind of works together, um 631 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: to create more of a narrative. And we were talking 632 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 1: about earlier about how it's easier for people to digest 633 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,839 Speaker 1: that information when it's visual, um and you can really see, 634 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: like we were talking about girdles and like you know, 635 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 1: that's like we don't have to really think about that anymore. 636 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: I mean, we have shapewear, but we're talking about a 637 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,439 Speaker 1: whole another level of shapewear and preparation and getting into 638 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,399 Speaker 1: your clothes and just right it's strapped in and it's 639 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 1: it's easier to visually see that instead of kind of 640 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 1: explain it. Yeah. Absolutely, wow, And so like how did 641 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 1: you see her style changing Like as she got older, 642 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: As she got older, she just I don't it's weird 643 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: because so she stopped performing. Um with any footage she 644 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,799 Speaker 1: stopped performing in like this I think the early eighties. Um, 645 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: so you didn't really she started to cover up more 646 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: as she aged. But she kind of when she stopped performing. 647 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: Her from a very like one of these articles where 648 00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: they like to see her fail. They were like, oh, 649 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: she gained weight and now she's not wearing you know, 650 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: And this was I think this article was done in 651 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: the late eighties so rude. Beyond it was so disrespectful. Um, 652 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: But that's that's where you get your information. Sometimes we're 653 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: giving your consuming resources for it to do to do 654 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: a podcast or to write a paper, you have to 655 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: read some really unpleasant stuff. Um. But again it helps 656 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: to build the narrative about like where these people come from, 657 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: how they were received, things like that. But I think 658 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: that she kind of she didn't care anymore. She converted 659 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: to because she anity she wanted to live her life. 660 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: Um Like, she realized that music wasn't working for her. 661 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: And so I don't think we should judge her for 662 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 1: I don't think she was even wearing a movement. I 663 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: think she was just wearing like I couldn't tell you 664 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,839 Speaker 1: there's no photographic evidence that I could tell. But yeah, 665 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: I mean, but she did she wore because the documentary. 666 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: I saw clips from the documentary. Um, she looked fine 667 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: to me. She wasn't wearing anything spectacular, but you know, 668 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: she still had her confidence. But I just don't think 669 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: she wasn't performing anymore. R Right. It's always interesting to me, 670 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: like when we do see celebrities that stick around for 671 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 1: a long time and when they age and how their 672 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: style I changes and matures along with them, or when 673 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: it kind of their look is their look, and their 674 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: look is their look until they die, you know what 675 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: I mean, Like, no matter what. Diana Ross is a 676 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: good example of that. Elizabeth Taylor, Yeah, she's in her 677 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: diamonds and in her you know, luxurious clothes always, but 678 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: I think her style mature. It's with Diana Ross. She's 679 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: still wearing like she'll still wear like a slinky I mean, 680 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 1: and she's she's stayed in shape. I understand, Like this 681 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: is the un show if your body you're like pushing 682 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: seventy like and you've had like kids, like you've lived 683 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,919 Speaker 1: your life like you want to show it off. I'm 684 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,240 Speaker 1: not saying like she shouldn't wear it, but like she 685 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,280 Speaker 1: she definitely has stuck to her. Her and Tina Turner 686 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: also because Tina Turner is still wearing like skinny, like 687 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: skinny leather leggings with her like a little craps like 688 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: she's still doing that. So um, I love it, like 689 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: some people can pull it off. And I think again, 690 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: it comes to the attitude, and I think La Loupe 691 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 1: had the attitude of until the time she realized that 692 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 1: she know she just wasn't going to be what she 693 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: wanted to be. Unfortunately, she's so unfortunate because she has 694 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: such had such a powerful voice and such an amazing 695 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: look and a huge personality, huge personality, she just had 696 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: so much to give. I feel, and I just it 697 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: makes me really sad, you know. Like I was just 698 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, I was on Twitter or something the 699 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: other day and another star who probably could have had 700 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: a lot more success, but for whatever reasons, like different factors, stunted, 701 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: you know, the growth of her career. I was seeing 702 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,799 Speaker 1: this little video that was put out about Dorothy Dandridge, 703 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: another one like fem queen, like singer, dancer, actress, super talented. 704 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: She was in Carmen Jones. She was she was nominated 705 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: for what was it um an Oscar alongside you know, 706 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: Grace Kelly and Audrey Hepburn and these and white women, 707 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: and she was nominated that she didn't win, and then 708 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: after that you saw her career become very stagnant. Yeah. 709 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: I mean, she's interesting because she's when I look back 710 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,479 Speaker 1: into like my my culture as an African American woman, 711 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: she was very prominent, but as far as like having 712 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: national acclaim, she didn't get it in the same way, right. 713 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: And it's the same with La Loupe because she was 714 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,760 Speaker 1: just as popular. At a certain point, her and sailor 715 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 1: crews were the same popularity, and it was quite they 716 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: were quite popular, but she just kind of dropped off somehow. 717 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: People didn't she wasn't as commercial. That's usually what happens, 718 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: and I think that's what also happened with Dorothy Dandridge 719 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: is because she looked like in some ways people felt 720 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 1: she was like a carbon copy of a Grace Kelly, 721 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: but in the same token, she was pushing her own 722 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: personality and like what she stood for, and so it 723 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: just wasn't enough, I guess, to push her over the edge, 724 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: like to put her in the history books. In the 725 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: same way because she was just as important, just like 726 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 1: La Loupe is just as important. But a and it's 727 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: like what we decided to pry word test and it's 728 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: it's also like there's like you're saying, I think it's 729 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: important to talk about their success on this sort of 730 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 1: like Grammy level, Oscar level, institutional level, and then there's 731 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: success within your people group, right, and what your people 732 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: really admire and notice and acknowledge and value versus what 733 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: goes unnoticed and unacknowledged, right exactly. Wow, So Joy, I 734 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,760 Speaker 1: want to tell us any like final words, any exciting 735 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: announcements or things to look out for from unravel Yeah, 736 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: there's a luck going on at Unraveled headquarters. So we're 737 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,360 Speaker 1: going to have a meet up to launch our website 738 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 1: ravel podcast dot com, which is really exciting. So if 739 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: you're in the New York area, if you're in Connecticut, 740 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 1: if you're on the Eastern Seaboard as they call it, 741 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: we'd love to see you there more. I'll give you 742 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: guys the info and the times of it. Only April one, 743 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 1: So we have a new website and we're having a 744 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 1: meet up and you can check us out at Unraveled 745 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: podcast on Facebook, Instagram, the whole thing. Twitter. We're on 746 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: Twitter now, which is exciting. Yeah, tag and link y'all 747 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: of course on our Instagram and all our our social 748 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: media feeds. Oh and one more thing that we're doing. 749 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: We're doing a fundraiser. So we're doing a fundraiser to 750 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: bring ourselves to the Costumes uh Costumes Society of America, 751 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: which is kind of a meeting of fashion nerds. So 752 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: if you enjoyed this podcast and you want like some 753 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: real deep, we go real deep some of our discussion. 754 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 1: It gets really nerdy. So we're going to be able 755 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: to go there, and we're raising quite a bit of money. 756 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,439 Speaker 1: We're like a third of the way to our goal, 757 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: which is really exciting as as we're recording. Um, so yeah, 758 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,240 Speaker 1: if you want to do that, just look up bring 759 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: Unraveled to c s A on go fund me. Okay, awesome. 760 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: We will also share that. Yes, oh my god, thank you, 761 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,920 Speaker 1: say thank you for having me like you're making us 762 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 1: by Coastals. So I can't I can't be like I'm 763 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: more excited. Yeah yeah, yeah, we will be having a 764 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,919 Speaker 1: mini capitulo mini episode with Unraveled as well. I can't 765 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,879 Speaker 1: wait now we're all warmed up. Yes, yes, well, thank 766 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: you so much for listening. As always, Yes, this has 767 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: been your latest installment of Brown Girl, Hour of our 768 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,439 Speaker 1: radio phonic novella. Thank you so much for tuning in, 769 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time. Than