1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: This podcast is a dramatization of fictionalized events that contains 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: culturally insensitive language and violence. Something that I think that 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: most people don't take into account is that, yes, I 4 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: recorded the incident on my cell phone, but I also 5 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: actually witnessed those cops and what they did to Niles 6 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: with my own two eyes. And how would you describe 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: what you saw? It was traumatizing. Yeah, it was traumatizing. 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: And let's just say those cops acted like savages. Niles Hayes, 9 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: who you remember from the first episode, was running an 10 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: errand to pick up tickets to a basketball game when 11 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: he gets pulled over by the police. The car he 12 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: was driving, a seven Series BMW, belonged to a family friend, 13 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: Jay Shaw. The following footage is from the policeman's body cam. 14 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: Roll your window down all the way and I'm gonna 15 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: need you to get off your cell phone. That's the 16 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: voice of thirteen year police that are in Sergeant Place, 17 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: license registration insurance. I was just trying to fix my 18 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: dad and let him know that I got pulled over 19 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: his license insurance. Please as Nile's hands as I d 20 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: card over, Sergeant Places partner Officer Webb approaches the BMW's trunk. 21 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,639 Speaker 1: Can I ask you something? Why is your partner putting 22 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: gloves on like he's about to get in a fight. 23 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: Do you have registration and insurance? That's what I was 24 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: trying to tell you. I'm not sure where the owner 25 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: keeps it? You okay with me? Looking in the glove compartment, sir? 26 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: Is this vehicle stolen? What's known? This is my dad's friend, 27 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: his car, My father and the owner of the car. 28 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: That Are you buying or selling drugs? Come on, man, 29 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: answer the question. No, are you buying a something? Drugs? 30 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: Are there any narcotics of any kind in the vehicle? Cocaine? Pills? No? 31 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: Do you mind if reserves the vehicle? I do mind? 32 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: Are you in possession of a firearm or any other weapon? Really? 33 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 1: That's where you're going with this? Man? This is some bullshit. 34 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: I'm gonna need you to step outside the vehicle right now. 35 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: I'm trying to tell you the owner of the car 36 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: is right there in that restaurant across the street. Hey, 37 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: hands up on the dash. I have to put my 38 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: hands up on the dash now, all right? All right, 39 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 1: all right there there, keep him there. Why are you 40 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: putting your hand on your car. Shut up so ridiculously 41 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: outside the vehicle, slowly listen to me for a second. 42 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 1: Stop jumping and conclusive. Hi, get out of the car now, 43 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: screaming voice, you just heard that Sergeant places partner Officer 44 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: web So here I am outside of Jason's forty two 45 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: take in video of the building on my phone. That's 46 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: Martin Sims, who you also remember from the previous episode 47 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: is Jay Shaw's former sports agent. Now, this again is 48 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: part of my attempt to make Jas think that I'm 49 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: actually considering partnering up with him on the bar. But 50 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: like I said, everything about this was a non starter. 51 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 1: I mean from the gun vault to Jason's drinking and 52 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: kit Let's be honest here, the restaurant business is a 53 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: tough one as it is, and then you add in 54 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: a middle aged former athlete with questionable executive decision making skills. 55 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: Oh no, thank you, you were over it. I was, 56 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: and Kate, I swear to you. I was literally thinking 57 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: to myself, you know, Martin, you can just leave, you 58 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: can just leave and just give Jason excuse later. Why 59 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: didn't you? Because that's when I heard the commotion across 60 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: the street the police. Yeah, and Basically, all I did 61 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: was turn a hundred and eighty degrees and keep filming. 62 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: Am I to arrest? Do you want to be No? 63 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: I want you to stop assuming that I'm doing something wrong. 64 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: Is that I'm a criminal? Mann? Stop acting like a 65 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: criminal and comply? But how am I acting like a criminal? 66 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: This is your final warning step outside of the vehicle. 67 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: Don't sit man, this is why they need to defund y'all. Well, 68 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: let's go. And then all of a sudden, I hear 69 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: so offers a web bangs his baton into the window 70 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: and at the same time starts and play starts punching 71 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: the crap out of the mouse's face through the driver's side. 72 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: And then that's when you just hear like web just 73 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: destroyed the star window, a huge mouth out of the 74 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: car like using bag rounds stands warning to the people. 75 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: I didn't do anything. Start out, start out, and these 76 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: these two cops are just taking terms like tea off 77 00:04:53,480 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: on this poor kid just got him. So while all 78 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: this is happening, right, I saw to reach back from 79 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: one hand to open the rest of my door, and 80 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: I called inside. I'm like you gotta see that. Wait, 81 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: is that Marchael behind him. Joel comes out and immediately 82 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: teas in on his son. Then Jay's yells out too, 83 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: prompted by the hollering, you can see Officer Webb look 84 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: across the street. He quickly reaches for the radio on 85 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: his lapel progress respective of a five three copy that 86 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: norm sending back up path. Attention l units you're intersections 87 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: with Lass obviously the assistance and responding units, please identifying 88 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: four five three frame responding coming there four five three freak. 89 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: Then I remember feeling something like sort of whisp past me. 90 00:05:55,640 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: In the next thing I know, I say, General running 91 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: towards you know, his son and the police. Okay, but 92 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: but as he's trying to get to his son, and 93 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: he's trying to dodge from the crossing traffic by taking 94 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: my phone and I zoom in just as Officer Webb 95 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: slams his knee onto me, his face whetting all of 96 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: these wings, falls home hard on the kid's jar that 97 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: moler's not in his kid's mouth, and bounces onto the curb. 98 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: And then after that, Sergeant Place just started crawling out 99 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: back up back up bag. As both policemen clear away 100 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: from Niles, Sergeant Place pulls his taser out and fires 101 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: it like. I don't know if it's because they were 102 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: focused on making sure they were keeping a safe distance 103 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:47,239 Speaker 1: from Niles as they taste them or what, But neither 104 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: one of them saw Jerald coming Like a projectile. Gerald 105 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: is his body with all the speed he can muster 106 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: and to both police officers, which sends them all crashing 107 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: to the ground. Then Gerald quickly rolls on top of 108 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: Sergeant Place and began striking down on him with a 109 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: flurry of rabid blows. Simultaneously, Officer Webbry groups from the 110 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: fall and draws his gun. Then when that first shot 111 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: rung out, j Sha recalls his reaction. My heart sunk 112 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: because I thought, damn, they just shot g You thought 113 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: Officer Web shot Gerald. Yeah, yeah I did. But it 114 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: was weird because I hear the gun go off, and 115 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: it's like everything froze for us Place second, that's when 116 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: I realized that Sergeant Place at his gun out too. 117 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: Why did everyone freeze because no one could believe what 118 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: they were seeing, which was what Sergeant Plays just shot 119 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: his own partner. And then you just see Officer Web 120 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: drop straight down and it's like as soon as Officer 121 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: Wells body hit the ground. Boom, freeze, frame was over. 122 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: Everything started moving again, but like real fast in the video, 123 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: Gerald immediately tries to wrestle Sergeant Places, gonna away from him. 124 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: As the two continue their struggle for the firearm, another 125 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: shot rings out, this one hitting Sergeant Placed in his 126 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: right leg. Seizing the moment, Gerald rips the gun away 127 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: from the now wounded Sergeant Place and he proceeds to 128 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: whale on him with his sists and the policeman's own. 129 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: So I just take off running towards now. Jason, in 130 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: his infinite wisdom, dashes across the street as well to 131 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,719 Speaker 1: where all this madness is happening. Now. Now Gerald is 132 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: beating the crap out of Sergeant Place and the other 133 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: cop officers Web is all on the side, grabbing at 134 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: a bloody wound on his neck. What about Niles? From 135 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: what I could see, Niles was out the oils was 136 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,719 Speaker 1: still conscious. Martin was just too far away to hear 137 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: what we heard. As I'm running up, she's just beating 138 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: the ship out of sawd your place. And then I 139 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: see him sort of rocked back, take a like keep 140 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: about to shoot this dude, And that's when we both 141 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: hear there right there. Did you did you here? Now? 142 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: Says Damn To this day, I believe Gerald was gonna 143 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: shoot that cop on the spot had he not heard 144 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: his son call out. That split second gave Gerald palms 145 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: and that's when I put my hands on him, and 146 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: I say. In Martin's cell phone footage and in the 147 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: surveillance video from outside the restaurant, we see Gerald peel 148 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: his battered son off the sidewalk and carry him across 149 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: the street over the door. You're in, Nora. We have 150 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: a night night night chewing him over, down over, dick 151 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: down cop in that fire tenor is on the way 152 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: stand line intentional units. We have a nine ventura ball 153 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: of art and Lazarus and let's requested as well respond well, 154 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: hanging there so now here, surrounded by straight up Corntie. Obviously, 155 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: Webb don't look like he's gonna make it. Sergeant Places 156 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: shot up to at the end, I see Place crawling 157 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: towards Webb's gun, which is lying right there on the 158 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: sidewalk right. So now I'm thinking, if I let him 159 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: get to that gun, who knows what my jumple. In 160 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: Martin's video, we see Sergeant Place get within inches of 161 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: his partner's straight firearm. When Jay's kicks the weapon out 162 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: of reach, The former football player then hoist Sergeant Place 163 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 1: over his shoulder and carries the wounded policeman towards the restaurant. 164 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: As Jason runs through traffic towards this building, we can 165 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: see in the restaurant surveillance camera that Jays also grabs 166 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: Martin by the caller and pulls him along as well. 167 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: Come what are you doing? Let my circle that. I 168 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: asked Martin what he felt like. As the large ornately 169 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: crafted doors at Jason's body, two sports bar and girl 170 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: close behind them, I was disbelief, but at the same 171 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: time it was all start to get the feeling that 172 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: I was trapped. Now now'll come on, boy, who come 173 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: at John that I'm carrying it? Sergeant place right, Gerald 174 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: announce they already in the kitchen. Immediately I hear Gerald 175 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: telling me to get some help. So I said, Sergeant 176 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: place down and kind of you know, problem up against 177 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: the wall. While I'm doing that, Martin starts free out, 178 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: thinking of my face, James, what are you thinking? Answering 179 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: Gerald's call, Jase leaves Martin Sergeant Place in the main 180 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: bar area and crosses into the kitchen. Are you leaking 181 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: you go to heavy lance? Yeah. When I walked into 182 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: the kitchen, I've seen Niles laid up like that on 183 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: the table. I just went't prepared for. I mean, I 184 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: saw how it was constans beating on him, but I 185 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: just didn't expect it to be as bad as it was. 186 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: You know, can you tell us what you saw? One 187 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: of his arms dislocated hanging towards the ground, but like 188 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: wrong way and was not room chest at all. These 189 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: belts bruises on it his face. Yeah, it's so spoiler. Yeah, yes, 190 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: the address? Do you know the street number? Side? Oh yeah, 191 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 1: it's sixty two six to thank you, thank you. Sorry, 192 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: we already responding to that location and responsible shooting. Is 193 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: that law he may have may not be okay, sorry, 194 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: well we have that on the way. Are you inside 195 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: the building? After calling, Jays goes back into the main area, 196 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: where we see Martin pacing nervously back and forth. Sergeant 197 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: Place is still propped against the wall and you can 198 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 1: tell that he's in a lot of discomfort as he 199 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: squirms uncomfortably from the bullet wound in his thigh. No, 200 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: no more. In the video, we see Gerald dragged Sergeant 201 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: Place towards the kitchen, where Niles convlesses, you cannot do that, Okay, 202 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: this man is she stopped Martin in the face and 203 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: it's not his hands down, And then he goes back 204 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: to drag the policeman towards the kitchen. Right mine hops 205 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: up and makes a bee line for the front door 206 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,599 Speaker 1: and opens it, and all of a sudden, all you 207 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: go here was Kate and ship was so loud Eat 208 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: literally sounded like the squad cars were driving into the 209 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: bar over the door. Lucky you and him? What are 210 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: you free to believe? Hill Martin? I did that? So, Martin, 211 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: were you grateful that James told Gerald he was the 212 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: one who brought Sergeant Place into the bar with you. 213 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: As far as I was concerned, it was Jason's fault 214 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: that I was in this messing the first place, So no, 215 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: I was definitely not grateful. If anything, I was pissed. 216 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: And then I look over and Gerald is waving a 217 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: gun in my direction, like, oh, hell no, if anyone 218 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: goes for that door again without my permission, I'm gonna 219 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: shoot you. First, did you believe him that he would 220 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: shoot me without a question? But he wasn't the only 221 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: one I was worried about taking a bullet from what 222 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: he's on him. All this is charge of place. Take 223 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: a building, now take a building, now back back back. 224 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: So James walked me through this. Who shot first? I 225 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: ain't sa do with Gerald little police. Jason is lying 226 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: if he says he doesn't remember who five first was? 227 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: Gerald Martin recounts. Okay, let let me just tell exactly 228 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: how it went down. Okay, First, the police announced themselves, 229 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: then try to bust out the door and successfully. Generald shoots, 230 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: and then the police they returned fire. Now this goes 231 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: on for a been until Gerald runs out of AMMO. 232 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: Sergeant Place notices. He calls onto the other cops. He's like, 233 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: he's out, He's out, He's out. But remember Jason's gun 234 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: vote that I was worried about. Well, guess who else 235 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: remembered it? Gerald Bingo or like donkey going after that? 236 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: So after trading a few shots, she goes into my 237 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: office and come back out with the big boy. And 238 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: when you said the boy, you mean my a off fifteen? 239 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: What's the cops turn that day? He won't none, And 240 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: luckily for them, he just fired one and shots it 241 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: to the sea. So Martin, what were you thinking as 242 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: bullets were flying back and forth? Did you did you 243 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: think that you were going to die? Kate? You know, um, 244 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: I felt like this is something I don't want to 245 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: talk about. Ipposed to say question to Jace, But I'm 246 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: like Martin, Jason was more cavalier about it. Well, you know, 247 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: it's not the first time I've been shot at, been 248 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: shot a bunch of times, but from the hood Cake. 249 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: So if you had to rate this being shot at 250 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: experience on a scale of this ship was a twenty. 251 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: Because I take being shot at by some stick up 252 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: kids and some jealous dude up in the club every 253 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: day of the week, and twice on Sunday over a 254 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: cop getting one shot off in my direction? What's up? What? 255 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: One cops shoot to kill? Two they're really good at 256 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: hitting the targets they aimed at. And three have you 257 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: ever seen a practice target? It's black and it doesn't 258 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: have anything for you to aim at except vitals. Now, 259 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: we were just lucky that they were shooting blindly into 260 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: walls and that the windows was covered. Otherwise I don't 261 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: think i'd be here talking to you right now. I 262 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: don't know what about Gerald. Do you think he was 263 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: scared at all? You're so certain, let me explain something 264 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: to you about Gerald Hayes. He's one of those dudes 265 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: that has that switch, you know what I'm saying, And 266 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: by the time there was gunfire, that switch was turned 267 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: all the way up. Martin echoed Jason's assessment of Gerald. 268 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: The best way I can describe Gerald in that moment 269 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: is there was a look in his eyes that I 270 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: simply have not seen on another human being in my life, 271 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: and then scared the ship out of me. Look. I 272 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: ain't trying to glamorize it or him, but jeez, a soldier, 273 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, obviously not you know, Yanni States 274 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: military or whatever. But there's a lot of dudes who 275 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 1: come from the areas like where we come from, who 276 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 1: just built different and they battle tested. And I just 277 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: think that from the second that he saw now it's 278 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: getting beat down by the MC cops, you know that 279 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: the mode he went into, she she it in the 280 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: battle war. Immediately after the exchange of gunfire with the 281 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: police subsides, we see Gerald fished out some duct tape 282 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: from a creative supplies and he tosses it to Martin 283 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: and issues a staunch warning that cops scream the other 284 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: cops again, I'm gonna who you responsible. In the surveillance cam, 285 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 1: we see Martin hastily peel a length of tape and stretched. 286 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: The sergeant places Joe then gives Martin it's O Kate. 287 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: Here's what really bothers me. But also what I find ridiculous, 288 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: you know, because people know me as the guy who 289 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: recorded what the police did to Niles, and no I 290 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: was involved in the standoff. And to this day, when 291 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: I get approached on the street, it's usually either people 292 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: thinking to me as one of the guys that kidnapped 293 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: the police officer and they love me for it, or 294 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: people see me and they want to spit my face 295 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: or fight me like that sort of thing. So on 296 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: of all of this, this interview, this project, I just 297 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: want to finally set the record straight because as much 298 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: as I hate to say this because I don't know, 299 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 1: I just think it makes me sound weak or like 300 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: a coward or something. I was scared shitless in that bar, 301 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: But you tell me anyone in that situation, it wouldn't 302 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: be I had no power. I was being held against 303 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: my will, and I was being ordered to do things 304 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: that I did not want to do. Gerald, he was 305 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: in complete control and knew exactly what he was doing 306 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: that day. Let me back this up a little bit 307 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: more fun. You. Jason and I are reviewing security camera 308 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: footage on my laptop. So this is what I wanted 309 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: you to see. First, Gerald grabs more ammunition for the 310 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: assault right for. Then he stops another handgun in his 311 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: waist band. Right there, he just pocketed another two clips. 312 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: Now he closes a vault and there is You see 313 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: that what he read programmed the combination. He wasn't just 314 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: fiddling with the keypad for ships and giggles. He was 315 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: changing the combination so that only he could get access 316 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: to the guards. So Gerald was in control. I mean, 317 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: and how did that make you feel? I mean, it's 318 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: your bar. Yeah I did feel a way. But on 319 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: the flip side, I also felt like what could I 320 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: say to him? Like that was his boy lying on 321 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: the table in the next room. It was his shot 322 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,479 Speaker 1: outside Jason's forty two sports bar and grill. Enough police 323 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: have mobilized him mount a major military offensive. As we 324 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: waited for the police to make the next move, we 325 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: get all heard a share amount of activity happening outside, 326 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: but none of us knew exactly what they were doing. 327 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: Then yeah, we news from us. And I don't know 328 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: if it was the fact that an animals had showed 329 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: up yet or if Gerald was just tied up hearing 330 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 1: them say the same thing over and over on the morning. 331 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: But finally he just had enough and he goes to 332 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: the middle of the bar facing the street, and he 333 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: takes this this very wide stance, and his postures just 334 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I guess the best way 335 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: to describe is primal. And at the top of his lungs, 336 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:32,239 Speaker 1: he just starts screaming fuck. And I'm just thinking to myself, 337 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: this guy has lost it. I asked Chase if he 338 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: thought Gerald was coming undone look. Yeah, at that time, 339 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: I was more concerned with what was going on on 340 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: the other side of that front doat and I was 341 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: about g So finally I just walked over to the window, 342 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: peeled back some of that construction paper and took a peek. 343 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: And what did you see? I saw the entire police department. 344 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: They had dozens of police cars, more officers than I 345 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: even knew they had, and one of those take looking vehicles. 346 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: But like the updated five version of the battle ram 347 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: they used to use in the eighties. You know, they 348 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: even brought in a mobile command unit, you know, one 349 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: of those decked out motor home look at things. So 350 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: seeing all that, I called Gerald over to take a 351 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: look too. Gerald joins Jays at the window and peers out. 352 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: After a few seconds of absorbing the scene taking shape outside, 353 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: Gerald slowly backs away in sort of nods like he's 354 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: revving himself up for what lies ahead. It's as if 355 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,959 Speaker 1: you can see something get activated in his head that 356 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: pulls him out of this raw emotional place where he 357 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: was screaming his lungs out to a totally different state 358 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: of mind where the analytical gear start turning again. He 359 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,719 Speaker 1: can't help but think back to something that correctional officer 360 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 1: Pali said about Gerald, how he could imagine Gerald being 361 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: a grand chess master. Maybe when Gerald looked out that window, 362 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: he saw his opponents setting the board, lining up the 363 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,239 Speaker 1: rows of ponds, rooks, nights, and so on, And just 364 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: as they were prepping outside, he knew that the initial rooms, 365 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: or what they call in chest the opening was about 366 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: to be played. I asked Jason about the shift in 367 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: Gerald's demeanor as he stepped away from the window. All 368 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: I remember is he started bugging orders. JA makes you 369 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: the backdoor flock? Then pull them the loose plot from 370 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: the dinning room. Let's start boarding this up. Yeah, jeez, 371 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: home to it and make sure you don't bring any 372 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: more consent. And while you're at it, what you said, Man, 373 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: you heard me. I don't know why you that cop 374 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: and you're in the first place. Two shot up police 375 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: officer in fol league is on the scene. Do you 376 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: know what that equals? Do you know what he needs? 377 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: He equals niggas more bullshit about your bullshit? The cop 378 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: is the only reason we allied right now? That is 379 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: the old man. Gerald coolly steps up and separates Jason Martin, 380 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: in part to keep the peace, but also reminding them 381 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: both that he's the one in charge. Go hand to 382 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: that back door. So James, did Gerald ever flat out 383 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: and say that he agreed or disagreed with the fact 384 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: that you brought Sergeant Place into the bar. Gerald didn't 385 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: have to say he agreed with me, my wife. Look, 386 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: I get that it was probably a bit of a 387 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: shock and he would see the same guy that just 388 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: put a beato Niles right up in the spot with us. 389 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: But regardless of all of that, he knew what time 390 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: it was. If it was just us in the building 391 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: without saw your place, please forget about it. Police would 392 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: have leveled the entire block to get that up. That's 393 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: a load of ship. I think that's just something James 394 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: keeps telling himself so he can justify his actions that day. 395 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: Any number of outcomes could have happened if different choices 396 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: were made. I mean it's possible. I think if Gerald 397 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: doesn't attack the police, maybe his son is still alive. 398 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 1: I mean it's possible, maybe even probable. I think if 399 00:25:53,480 --> 00:26:00,479 Speaker 1: Jas doesn't take a policeman hostage, Niles is still alive today. Well, 400 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: Martin seems to think that things could have played out 401 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: differently than Martin. I guess what I am struggling with, 402 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: Jase is, how could you and from what you're telling me, 403 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: Gerald as well, be certain that the only outcome could 404 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: have been more cops surviving on the scene and executing it. Come, okay, 405 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: because that's what cops do. The niggas like us, Okay, 406 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,959 Speaker 1: But is there a version where you and Gerald make 407 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: different choices and things turn out different and Niles lives. 408 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: You struggle with it because you live in a different 409 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: reality than we do. So let me ask you something. 410 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: If a man sees his child getting beat down in 411 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: the street like a doll by two grown asked me, 412 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: what is a man supposed to do? Huh? Just let 413 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: that ship happen, waiter, he let me get a tiny 414 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: walk a double knee place. You didn't mean to do? What? Look, 415 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: why don't we call your spots? Get this thing off me? 416 00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: I ain't doing this bullshit. Never mind. You'll remember from 417 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: the previous episode I mentioned how at Wilken Sassi's post 418 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: started me on this journey, and don't get me wrong, 419 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: I don't begrudge Gerald at all for shielding his son 420 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: from harm, and if that was the end of this story, 421 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: I would agree that his actions were that of a hero. 422 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: But this evening was just getting started, and a lot 423 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: of what Gerald does next classifies more in a villainous 424 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: category than the heroic one. In any event, my gut 425 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: tells me that Jason wasn't just indignant with my line 426 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: of questioning. He was equally frustrated as was I with 427 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: the canyon between us. And to make matters worse, I 428 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: was also left wondering did I blow my chance to 429 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: get another sit down with him? With so many questions 430 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: to left unanswered, the one thing I was pretty certain of. 431 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: Judging by his reaction, Jace is definitely carrying a lot 432 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: of guilt about Nile step, which also begs the question, 433 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: at what point, if any, did Gerald start to feel 434 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: guilty too? To find out, join us for the next 435 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: episode of Hashtag Matter. Hashtag Matter starring Amen Joseph as 436 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: Gerald Hayes, Jennifer Christopher as Kate Bell, Steve Harris as 437 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: Jason shaw Hayley, Joel Osmond as Sergeant Place, Whoch Hall 438 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: as Martin Sims, and Snoop Dogg as Big H. Additional 439 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: performances by Nile Bullock as Niles Hayes, Serena Pouncey as 440 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: Michelle Hayes, Monte Russell as Detective Patterson, and Alex Vaughan 441 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: as Darrell Hanover. Hashtag Matter was written and directed by 442 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: Dylan C. Brown. Our executive producers are Sandy Bailey, Lauren Holman, 443 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: Dylan Brown, Winnie Kemp, and Amon Joseph. Audio designed by 444 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: Wolf at the Door, Sound design and mix by Josh Falcon, 445 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: Music by Jonathan Sandford, edited by Darren Boland and our 446 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: sound director is Alexander Kemp. Produced by Toby Lawless and 447 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: Lucy Jones, Casting by Lawless Casting. Hashtag Matter is a 448 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: production of Shonda land Audio in partnership with I Heart 449 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: Radio and an association with Wolf at the Door. For 450 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: more podcasts from shot Land Audio, visit the I Heart 451 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your 452 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: favorite shows.