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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Emily, and this is and you're listening

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Speaker 1: to stuff Mom never told you. Today we are talking

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Speaker 1: about veganism, which is something that is near and dear

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Speaker 1: to our hearts, like all the topics we talked about,

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Speaker 1: and we I mean me, I yeah you should see.

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Speaker 1: You should see the look that Bridgetes gave me. But

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Speaker 1: so actually, what's interesting is Christian Caroline did an episode

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Speaker 1: on vegetarianism and women in vegetarianism, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: emails that have been coming in from that said, yo,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about veganism. And we've even got a few

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Speaker 1: listening emails. We're going to mention today about women in

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Speaker 1: veganism in particular. And let me be the first to

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Speaker 1: say I went vegan about a year and a half ago,

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Speaker 1: so I'm still relatively new to the space, and I

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Speaker 1: am very much not a strictly orthodox vegan. I am flexitarian,

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Speaker 1: as flexitarian as they come. And we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about why. Uh, but let's let's first

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Speaker 1: define our terms a little bit and bridget what what

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Speaker 1: is your general thought on this? Because I'm curious, Um, well,

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Speaker 1: I did go through a phase of veganism in late college. Um,

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Speaker 1: it did. It did not last long. I went from

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Speaker 1: vegetarian to vegan. Um. That really started as a as

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Speaker 1: a you know, a weirdness around cooking. I think I

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Speaker 1: was once cutting chicken or something. I was cutting some

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Speaker 1: sort of meat and I just realized, you know, I

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Speaker 1: hit one of those tumors or something that sometimes isn't

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Speaker 1: meat and it was really gross, and I was like, well, um.

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Speaker 1: I also always kind of felt sensitive around cooking meat,

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Speaker 1: and so I was like, oh, my cooking it done enough.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to die. You don't ever die from

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Speaker 1: undercooking a carrot or something, you know. So it really

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Speaker 1: came from a place of laziness and a version. You

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Speaker 1: definitely were like, you know, this is gross. Um. I

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Speaker 1: also when I became vegan, I did that purely because

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Speaker 1: I wanted to look cool, like no other reason. I

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Speaker 1: just thought it was cool. And people were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I can you eat this vegan? I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I want to be like that. When was this? What

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Speaker 1: time in your life was like I would have been

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Speaker 1: in my early twenties. Cool? Yeah, interesting, Well, I think

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Speaker 1: we're going to touch upon some of those philosophies, and

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Speaker 1: I do not feel cool being coming out as a vegan.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I feel like we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about why I get a lot of judgment. And I

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Speaker 1: come from a very foodie family. I am a food

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Speaker 1: eat y'all. I love food. I love eating, and so

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of assumptions I think that vegans get,

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Speaker 1: which is, oh, you must not love food or you

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Speaker 1: must not eat a lot. I literally had someone to

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Speaker 1: say to me yesterday, well what do you eat? And

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Speaker 1: I just like rolled my eyes a little bit. But

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Speaker 1: before we get to that, let's I guess we should

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Speaker 1: talk about the bach so veganism, right. The Vegan Society,

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Speaker 1: which is based out of the UK, sort of an

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Speaker 1: advocacy group for veganism and education group. They define their

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Speaker 1: formal definition is Veganism is a way of living which

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Speaker 1: seeks to exclude as far as possible and practical. That's

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Speaker 1: an important part of the definition to me, all forms

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Speaker 1: of exploitation of and cruelty to animals for food, clothing,

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Speaker 1: or any other purposes. I say this while I'm wearing

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Speaker 1: leather boots, by the way, So like, can we just

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Speaker 1: say I'm not nobody perfect. This is not about perfectionism.

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Speaker 1: Having recently talked about perfectionism on the podcast. This is

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Speaker 1: not about compulsive eating or restrictive eating because of compulsive behaviors.

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Speaker 1: This is really about a relationship with animals and the world.

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Speaker 1: And a couple of stats I think are important to

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Speaker 1: start off with is that according to data, and there's

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Speaker 1: really not enough of this research out there, but according

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Speaker 1: to data from top r end to BSN dot com

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Speaker 1: and info Graphic, which is a little bit dated now,

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Speaker 1: this is from two thousand six, no, sorry, two thousand,

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, from something um, about a

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Speaker 1: million Americans are vegan, which is not actually that many,

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Speaker 1: it's like less than two percent, but seventy nine percent

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Speaker 1: of them are women. Wow. And unlike vegetarianism, which is

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Speaker 1: much more evenly split, veganism is like a total lady thing.

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Speaker 1: It's a total woman thing. So the gender divide for

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Speaker 1: vegetarians is more like fifty nine to forty one, whereas

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Speaker 1: veganism is more like seventy nine to whatever. So it's

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Speaker 1: also a trend that's on the rise. I think it's

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Speaker 1: important to mention some more uh, some more recent statistics

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Speaker 1: from the United Kingdom demonstrated that there was a three

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty percent increase in plant based lifestyle and diet.

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Speaker 1: So veganism was on the rise in the UK in

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Speaker 1: a big way, and I would argue as well here

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Speaker 1: in the United States. That's also interesting because veganism is

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Speaker 1: really on the rise with young people. Um So we

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Speaker 1: have a study here that says that it's really driven

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Speaker 1: by the young. Close to half of all vegans are

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Speaker 1: aged fifteen to thirty four. That's when compared to just

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Speaker 1: fourteen percent who were over sixty five. And when The

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Speaker 1: Guardian asked people about being vegan, sixty seven percent of

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Speaker 1: the four hundred and seventy four folks they asked, we're

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Speaker 1: under thirty four. So this is really a movement that's

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Speaker 1: being kind of driven and and taken over by young folks.

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Speaker 1: It's not your older folks who are going vegan in

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Speaker 1: these big droves, it's it's it's young people. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: there's some component to this that we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about more in a little bit that has to do

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Speaker 1: with social media, which I'll be the first to admit

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Speaker 1: I was swayed to be to look into the vegan

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Speaker 1: lifestyle more than any other influence, which there's a ton

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Speaker 1: of documentaries out there that people like watch and then

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Speaker 1: become vegan right away. But for me, it was a

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Speaker 1: social thing. So a couple of my friends started talking

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Speaker 1: about their vegan lifestyle, and I really love animals. I

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Speaker 1: love animals a lot, and so when I started seeing

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Speaker 1: the implication of and Peter was very persuasive in my

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Speaker 1: social media feed of sort of how animals are treated

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Speaker 1: in this country and how the food industry have the

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Speaker 1: meat industry in particular, uh, and dairy industry really actually works.

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Speaker 1: The more I learned, the more I couldn't help but

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Speaker 1: become a little concerned. And then it was the Instagram

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Speaker 1: feed of one of my friends who became a medical

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Speaker 1: doctor that really swayed me. So she was posting two

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Speaker 1: things that were very persuasive. One medical research that showed

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Speaker 1: that doctors across the United States and beyond are recommending

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Speaker 1: a plant based diet for health purposes because of carcinogens

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Speaker 1: and the concern with hormones in our milk, and lots

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Speaker 1: like little girls are developing earlier because of hormones that

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Speaker 1: were ingesting from hormones that they're putting in animals. Um

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Speaker 1: that a vegan diet is being used to treat in

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Speaker 1: a homeopathic way, of course, um or maybe not a

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Speaker 1: homeopathic way. I don't want to say that. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to like distance this from actual medical science, because

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Speaker 1: medical science is turning to vegan diets to treat things

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Speaker 1: like cancer. And I'm not here to say if you

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Speaker 1: didn't eat so much meat, you wouldn't you know, wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have cancer. That's not at all what I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: say here. But she was posting medical evidence for health

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Speaker 1: benefits of veganism, which we're going to talk about, and

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Speaker 1: all the great food that she was eating. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean that last one would be the only thing I'd

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Speaker 1: be like, medical what like? But that looks good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's like, oh, that recipe looks great. Knew that

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Speaker 1: recipe looks great. So to me, it was like she

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Speaker 1: had this hashtag what vegans eat, but she was using

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Speaker 1: a lot that answers the question that you were asking exactly.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know, it just became all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden much more plausible and persuasive. So let's let's talk

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Speaker 1: about the four core reasons I've seen vegans come to

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Speaker 1: the lifestyle, and these are all for that played a

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Speaker 1: big impact on my desire The first one is really obvious.

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Speaker 1: The first one is animal rights. There was an argument

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Speaker 1: I was reading around social justice and animal justice, and

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Speaker 1: I think part of the reason, uh, non vegans get

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Speaker 1: very like weird about the response too. I'm seeing this weird,

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Speaker 1: like you're already giving. But part of the reason I

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Speaker 1: think people get is it defensive about Maybe it's defensively.

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Speaker 1: I think it has a lot to do with defensiveness.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing, Okay, however you feel about animals,

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Speaker 1: I really believe that the cow in the pasture kind

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Speaker 1: of wants to be snuggled and held and hugged and

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Speaker 1: not killed as much as my dog does. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: all this is and we can tell ourselves whatever we

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Speaker 1: want to tell ourselves about what beings are sentient and

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Speaker 1: what beings are not, what beings you know to live

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Speaker 1: and don't. And I get it. It's a cruel, cruel

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Speaker 1: world out there. But I really think if I can

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Speaker 1: sustain myself in a practical way without having to, you know,

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Speaker 1: support an industry that raises animals for the pure need

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Speaker 1: of killing them, and sometimes raises them and the most

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Speaker 1: horrific of conditions that are that you know, strip some

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Speaker 1: of their right to exist in this planet with the

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Speaker 1: basic needs that like I think human beings should get. Ah,

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Speaker 1: then I'd rather not support that. And I'm the kind

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Speaker 1: of person who really aspires to have a pig someday

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Speaker 1: and horses and animals around me. And you're I can

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Speaker 1: already see you now with a farm in your like

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Speaker 1: urban urban farming. Yeah, I'm it's in the plan. It's

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Speaker 1: in the life plan. So I just you know, we

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Speaker 1: think we decide sort of arbitrarily, in my opinion, which

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Speaker 1: animals we give personalities to, like dogs and cats, in

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Speaker 1: which animals we eat. So there are parts of the

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Speaker 1: world where they eat dogs and cats, and we think

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Speaker 1: those people are different or savage or somehow we're better

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Speaker 1: than them in a moral way, and that to me

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Speaker 1: seems very arbitrary. So to me, it boils down to

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Speaker 1: I animal rights. You know, they don't want to be killed,

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Speaker 1: and I don't really want to kill them for the

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Speaker 1: sake of my being more advanced or better as a

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Speaker 1: human being and someone that's basically it or or at least,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think the free range chickens sort of example,

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Speaker 1: at least people are you know, being conscious about how

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Speaker 1: the chickens or how the animals are being cared for

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Speaker 1: before they are sent to slaughter. Yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 1: can understand that. And I full disclosure, I'm a total carnivore.

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Speaker 1: I you know, I've gone through phases of no meat,

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Speaker 1: mild flirtations of veganism, but I I'm a meat eater.

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Speaker 1: There's no way around it. Um. And yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I love animals too, right, I I am a big

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Speaker 1: animal person. I mentioned earlier that I became vegan briefly

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Speaker 1: because of like I just wanted to be cool. And

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Speaker 1: the reason that was because I was dating someone who

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Speaker 1: was straight edge and if you don't know what that

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Speaker 1: that means. Basically, it means you're vegan. You don't drink,

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Speaker 1: you don't you don't use caffeine. And he was militant

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Speaker 1: and bad. It had straight edge tattoos and it was

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Speaker 1: the point. And so like I was trying to fall

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Speaker 1: in with this like very cool, you know, straight edge

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Speaker 1: crowd time and they were kind of very very into

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Speaker 1: animal rights, and so that was a big part of

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Speaker 1: it that you know, if you you couldn't be like

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Speaker 1: a progressive with it person, if you weren't down with veganism,

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Speaker 1: and I embrace that short term. But then it was

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Speaker 1: it was this idea that you know, I just I

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Speaker 1: just thought, like I love animals and the fact that

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Speaker 1: I eat steak and you know, bacon or whatever doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that I'm like a bad person. And I think

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Speaker 1: that I think that that was I think that I

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Speaker 1: agree that you know you're exactly right that you you know,

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Speaker 1: when you eat meat, you are supporting this like terrible industry.

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Speaker 1: But I think that when you buy, when you buy me, yes,

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Speaker 1: thank you, which I have to say, I quit buying.

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Speaker 1: But on occasion, this is like how people talk about drugs,

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Speaker 1: about cigarettes, I definitely quit buying. I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a lie. Like if I'm not, I don't deal well

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Speaker 1: with deprivation. We're going to talk about this in a minute.

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Speaker 1: But what he's saying, like when you put your money

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Speaker 1: behind an indtry. We talk a lot about conscious consumerism

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Speaker 1: on this podcast. This is another extension of that, and

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Speaker 1: I think people get really threatened by by the implication

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Speaker 1: that when a vegan says I love animals, so I

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Speaker 1: don't eat them, what we're saying is you hate animals.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like a little bit like racism. So

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Speaker 1: I don't hate black people, but that's never a good

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Speaker 1: big But if you think about whether you want to

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Speaker 1: call it white guilt or defensiveness or whatever, when I'm

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Speaker 1: not sexist, but like all of those reactions that tend

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Speaker 1: to be militant and overblown in a little bit like

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Speaker 1: super duper defensive, they feel very similar to the reactions

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Speaker 1: I get as a vegan. So I guess my story

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Speaker 1: about my straight edge by ex boyfriend is because we

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Speaker 1: had so many arguments about this that that always played

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Speaker 1: along this line. And so like if you're someone who

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Speaker 1: who is like a PRECV again and not like we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get into that later, but you know this, you

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Speaker 1: know this idea that anybody can live the vegan lifestyle,

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Speaker 1: anybody can do it, and I think it, I think

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Speaker 1: it overlooks the idea that there are people who already,

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Speaker 1: like live in food deserts, who already are food insecure,

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Speaker 1: and those people tend to be low income or people

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Speaker 1: of color, and that when you tell those folks like, well,

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Speaker 1: the animals, you know you need to not you need

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Speaker 1: to only eat this bag of rice because the animals

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Speaker 1: like that to me seems warped. And I've I've seen that.

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Speaker 1: I've seen that argument play out, and I am so

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable with it. And I would also never want to

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Speaker 1: put an animal's life over the life of human Like

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Speaker 1: the way we treat some animals in this country, like

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Speaker 1: free range whatever can in some ways be acknowledged or

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Speaker 1: compared to the way we treat people human beings on

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Speaker 1: this planet in a horrible way. So I'm not to say,

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Speaker 1: like we should compare those atrocities, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Like if we talk about the history of racism or sexism,

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Speaker 1: or you know, let's compare our wounds and compare the

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Speaker 1: who's more oppressed, Like I don't want animals to measure.

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Speaker 1: I'm still here to say humans do have a higher

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Speaker 1: moral ground, you know what I mean, Like I think

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Speaker 1: human atrocities do get to take the cake. But I

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Speaker 1: just want to say, like to use my privilege effectively,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to use my privilege to stand up for

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Speaker 1: animals where I can not at the cost of standing

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Speaker 1: up for other people. But in addition to so, there's

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Speaker 1: lots of it. And speaking of people, there's a human

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Speaker 1: case to be made for veganism two, and that boils

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Speaker 1: down to all the environmental concerns that come with food production.

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Speaker 1: So this is a quote um from Hank roth Rothger

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Speaker 1: Burger of Bellarmine University in Louisville, Louisville, Kentucky, Okay, which

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Speaker 1: does not strike me as the most vegan friendly place

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Speaker 1: the world. So he says meat eating contributes more to

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Speaker 1: global warming than even auto emissions. And he cites a

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Speaker 1: report by the United Nations in a two thousand and

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Speaker 1: eight report by the Pew Commission on Industrial Farm and

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Speaker 1: Production that concluded that farmed animals contribute more to global

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Speaker 1: warming than all transport combined. In two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: a German study concluded that meat eaters contribute seven times

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Speaker 1: as much green greenhouse gas emissions as vegans. And I

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Speaker 1: know it's like a little bit divorced, right, So there's

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Speaker 1: a few stages of connection here. But when you buy meat,

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Speaker 1: which you're really putting your dollars behind, it is not

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Speaker 1: only the slaughterhouse, not only the animals, but all of

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Speaker 1: the trucking, all of the land use, all of the

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Speaker 1: feed production, and all of the um industrial sort of

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Speaker 1: industrial process behind meat production in this country. That is

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Speaker 1: really not good for our environment. But I guess I mean,

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Speaker 1: I I I buy that, but part of me wonders,

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Speaker 1: how could that. I find it curious that that impact

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Speaker 1: is so oversized, because I mean, there are plenty of industry, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the cut flower industry, things like that. I

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Speaker 1: would I would imagine that they would be a similar

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Speaker 1: you know, environmental impact, but I guess not like that's

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Speaker 1: I found that to be very surprising. I know I

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Speaker 1: found it surprising too, And I feel like there is

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Speaker 1: there's just a lot of waste involved in that industry,

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Speaker 1: and it's not you know, it's not to say that

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Speaker 1: there aren't a lot of jobs in that industry. You too,

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Speaker 1: So someone else I can hear the critics already pointing

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Speaker 1: to the fact that there are jobs that why do

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Speaker 1: you hate job creation? I know why. So it's just

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Speaker 1: I think the way we look at this and we

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Speaker 1: think of how meat production has been commercialized today versus

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Speaker 1: good old fashioned hunting and gathering, and I have very

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Speaker 1: different personal beliefs around good old fashioned hunting and gathering.

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Speaker 1: I also realized it's not practical for our country of

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Speaker 1: the size. I'm not saying we should all go back

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Speaker 1: to that stage, but you know, I actually my mind

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Speaker 1: has been turned around on hunting in that I support

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Speaker 1: conservation via hunting and a lot of different ways too,

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Speaker 1: but that's a whole other podcast. Um. Bottom line is

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Speaker 1: there's lots of reasons why people go vegan, animal rights

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Speaker 1: or one of them environmental concerns or another. Health and

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Speaker 1: budgetary benefits were huge for me. I found very compelling

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Speaker 1: research that shows that you know, consuming too mention meat

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Speaker 1: is bad for you straight up, like consuming the amount

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Speaker 1: of meat that we consume today is far greater than

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Speaker 1: any other time in history, you know, thinking about access

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Speaker 1: to meat, which Christen and Caroline covered very well in

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Speaker 1: the historical look at vegetarianism that they they had UM.

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Speaker 1: But also I found that my monthly expenditures were less,

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Speaker 1: so it was good for my budget, it was good

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Speaker 1: for my health. I felt better um with a few

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Speaker 1: asterixes which we'll talk about in a second, which is

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Speaker 1: supplements that I think are very important. Yeah. I've often

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Speaker 1: been told if you want to try veganism, that if

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Speaker 1: you do it for like a week or a month

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Speaker 1: or something, that you will find health benefits. And it's

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Speaker 1: too bad that when I tried it, I was like

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Speaker 1: living in an otherwise very healthy life. So I didn't

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Speaker 1: get any of those benefits, but they say that even

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Speaker 1: if you do it for a week, that week you

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Speaker 1: will feel more energetic or have interests more healthy. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I've heard about like neatless mondays. You know, there's like

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Speaker 1: ways that we can all cut down on the amount

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Speaker 1: of meat we're eating because too much is not good

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Speaker 1: for you. And I'm not saying you have to become

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Speaker 1: totally vegan, but a plant based diet is like has

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Speaker 1: been proven um to to be very good for you.

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Speaker 1: And if we went into all the health benefits on

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Speaker 1: this podcast, I swear we wouldn't have time to cover

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Speaker 1: anything else. There's a lot of great research driven medical reasons.

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Speaker 1: But the final reason I want to cover before we

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Speaker 1: take a break, because I know we're we're gathering on

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Speaker 1: here is feminism. Feminism, so I didn't always make this

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Speaker 1: connection right away. What feminism stands for in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways is to see a woman is a whole

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Speaker 1: human being and not a sum of her parts. To

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Speaker 1: not feel objectified for your thighs perhaps, or your legs

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Speaker 1: or the hoofs that you might have. So what we're

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Speaker 1: buying when we're looking in the meat aisle is an

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Speaker 1: object that we're pretending is not part of an animal.

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Speaker 1: It's dehumanizing to you those terms and air quotes for

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Speaker 1: an animal. Right, Bacon is not bacon. Bacon is a

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Speaker 1: pig rear end. But if we've called it a pig

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Speaker 1: rear end now and buy it. Yeah, I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is so familiar to me, and this is this is

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Speaker 1: one of my earliest um introductions to this kind of thinking.

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Speaker 1: So I was women's studies minor in college, and so

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Speaker 1: I took a lot of classes along these lines, and

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Speaker 1: I took a class on echo feminism, and I'll never

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Speaker 1: forget I was so I think back to that. I

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Speaker 1: was so defensive in that class. Basically, eco feminism was

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Speaker 1: this idea that the environment and women are intrinsically linked,

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Speaker 1: and so one will not be free but that the other.

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Speaker 1: And so if you if women are are if if

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Speaker 1: we are not respecting the environment, then these av we

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Speaker 1: were not respecting women, and that they're combined. And I

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Speaker 1: remember thinking, I don't think I've ever had a more

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Speaker 1: viscerally like I thought that was such a bs that

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Speaker 1: I was angry, that I was angry. I was angry

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Speaker 1: for weeks about it, and part of me looking back.

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Speaker 1: I mean I also was like nineteen and had an

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Speaker 1: nose ring and was very strident and blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: But and so if it was like if someone was

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Speaker 1: selling me what feminism was in a way that did

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Speaker 1: not job what I thought it was. I took that

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Speaker 1: very personally and was like, very like you can imagine

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Speaker 1: a nineteen year old. You're talking to nineteen year olds

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Speaker 1: with nose ring right now. I hope you know that

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Speaker 1: I was one of you. It's okay if I say it,

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Speaker 1: so okay. So for me, this is like really painting

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Speaker 1: the camera back. So I know from doing research around

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Speaker 1: this issue that the people who are more likely to

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Speaker 1: suffer adverse consequences from climate change and climate injustice are

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Speaker 1: people of color and women. I also know that if

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Speaker 1: climate or meat eating is an industry that does you know,

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Speaker 1: real damage to the environment, what you're actually saying, if

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Speaker 1: you like, you know, take it that far, is that

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Speaker 1: the meat industry then would have an oversized um negative

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Speaker 1: impact on people of color and women. Therefore, if feminism

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Speaker 1: is about, you know, freeing women and folks of color

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Speaker 1: and folks along the gender spectrum from oppression, then I

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Speaker 1: can see how they're linked, but I think at the

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Speaker 1: time that was just too many steps, and I was

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Speaker 1: very angry. This is like a long logical proof in logic.

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Speaker 1: It's like a big, really advanced philosophical philosophically philosophy chorus. Geez,

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Speaker 1: so I hear you, I hear you, and a listener.

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Speaker 1: Jody actually wrote in and made a connection to feminism

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Speaker 1: and when it comes to our environment our treatment of

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Speaker 1: animals very clear when she said is it possible to

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Speaker 1: be a non vegan feminist? Which I felt immediately threatened,

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Speaker 1: like you might like I was once a non vegan feminist,

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Speaker 1: Can I be ever again? She says. The eggon dairy

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Speaker 1: industry is run off the exploitation of female animals. She writes,

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Speaker 1: cows are raped slash artificially, inseminated repeatedly, and their offspring

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Speaker 1: are taken away from them immediately, I might add, and

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Speaker 1: cows are emotional beings. I might also add that, like

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Speaker 1: you can actually see them emote. It's sad, okay, whatever

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Speaker 1: you get it. I care. It's a mean only taken

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Speaker 1: away from them to have for us to have milk.

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Speaker 1: Hens are kept in captivity and genetically modified to produce

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Speaker 1: more eggs. Which is essentially a birthing process and exhausting

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Speaker 1: for the birds. To think about the lifespan of a

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Speaker 1: milk a dairy cow. In some dairy farms, In many

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Speaker 1: many dairy farms, cows are born, they're kept in a cage,

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Speaker 1: they're inseminated, they're given birth, and that's it. That's their

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Speaker 1: whole life. Their children are taken away from them right away.

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Speaker 1: And I think I think people get defensive because they're saying,

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Speaker 1: don't compare a cattle a woman. I think that's we

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Speaker 1: really really need to believe that humans are better than animals,

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Speaker 1: because otherwise we threaten the risk of standing up for

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Speaker 1: animals at the cost of standing up for people. I

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Speaker 1: think you're I think that that's so part of it.

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Speaker 1: I think for me, it's it's just for me. It's

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Speaker 1: one of those complicated things that I have not fully unpacked.

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Speaker 1: But I also think it does come back to me

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Speaker 1: for a little bit um along length of race as

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Speaker 1: I do. I mean, this is like and this is

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Speaker 1: might be people, something that people maybe don't know about

430
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: folks of color. And this is like a thing that

431
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: is a thing in Yeah, it's a thing that might

432
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 1: I know this, but a lot of black folks have

433
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 1: a real discomfort and not all, like certainly not all,

434
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: but a lot of black books have a real discomfort

435
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: with this idea that for a lot of white people

436
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 1: they see animals or they're more likely to have empathy

437
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 1: for an animal than for a person. And so I

438
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: think that that so that's like a very common attitude.

439
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: Like I remember seeing this image. I actually think the

440
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: image was not real. Is one of those images that

441
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: Snopes was like, this is not a real image. But

442
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: after Hurricane Katrina, it was this image of a lot

443
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: of dogs and cats in a in a plane and

444
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, these are neighborhood pets being flown out.

445
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: So that image wasn't real. But I think that the

446
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: reason why it was like it was like an early

447
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: viral image is because that tapped into this kind of

448
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 1: internal um thing that I think a lot of black

449
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: CLOBs feel, where a lot of white people will much

450
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 1: be much more likely to have empathy for an animal

451
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 1: over a black person. And I think that you do

452
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: see it in things like you know, where people make

453
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: those arguments like you know, obviously things like dog fighting

454
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: are are awful and horrible and horrible, but it will

455
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: be like, oh, well, Michael Vick killed dogs and this

456
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: police officer killed a person, and like, you know, I

457
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: didn't even lose his job like things like that, like

458
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: and obviously both things are awful, awful things to do.

459
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: So I'm not I don't want to be very clear.

460
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: I think you're totally right. I feel like this is

461
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 1: nuanced and complex, and I'm so glad to be talking

462
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: in this through with you. But I feel like I

463
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: need I need a quick break because then when we

464
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 1: come back, let's get I want to talk about why

465
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: there aren't more vegan dudes for a set? Can we

466
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: were you at dudes? So we're trying to do justice

467
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: to a very thorny topic here, which has made clear already.

468
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: And Bridget I really appreciate that you're the person I'm

469
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: working through all this stuff with them. It's complicated and complicated.

470
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: I have complex feelings about it, but I think we

471
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: can agree on without a doubt, is that there is

472
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: a strong connection in our society, especially in the Western society,

473
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: between masculinity and meat, meat, meat and meat meat. Right.

474
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: Sometimes you see those ads that like so play up

475
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: the connection between masculinity and meat to the point and

476
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: I love meat to the point where it's disgusting, right,

477
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 1: I cannot help but call out Arby's right now for yeah,

478
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: like that hyper masculine, Like I feel macho just chomping

479
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: into this burger at Arby's or maybe even a meat

480
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: box for Father's Day that we might have heard before

481
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: on this channel. No never, So this this connection between

482
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: you know, meat is something that men prepare and eat

483
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 1: and need. And also, like you were, we were talking

484
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: off air about grilling being how grilling is. Basically we

485
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: made it seem like this like masculine fatherly thing to do,

486
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: but like it's this weird it's in a weird way

487
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: where it's like, oh that dad man and mcgrill. It's

488
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: the only time it's it's appropriate for a man to

489
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 1: wear an apron. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also think it's

490
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: interesting how and we talked a little bit about this

491
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: in an episode around whiskey. But um, this idea that

492
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: if a woman enjoys meat, that like that is somehouse

493
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: sort of like oh, she's doing this like masculine thing.

494
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: Like I think that's the sexualized right, Like I think

495
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: about these heartiest commercials or if you're not from the South,

496
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: they call it Carls Jr. Where it would be like

497
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: Paris Hilton writing writing a car, And there's one where

498
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 1: she's writing a mechanical bull while like eating a burger,

499
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: and you're thinking, like, are we supposed to want to

500
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: have sex with the burger. I'm sure people out there

501
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 1: do want it. There's something for everyone, but yeah, I

502
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: think it's totally real. There's definitely a hyper sexualized, like

503
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 1: political conversation around meat in manhood that Carol J. Adams

504
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: was really a pioneer, and she wrote a book called

505
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: The Sexual Politics of Meat in the nineties that totally

506
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: holds up today that talks about this mythology of man

507
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: the hunter and masculinity being connected with meat, and I

508
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: think that's a big part of the reason why. And

509
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: some of the English teenagers who were interviewed about the

510
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: rise of a veganism amongst teens, they're like the increase

511
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: that we talked about. Um. Even one of the young

512
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: men interviewed for that article and The Guardian said, I

513
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: think there's definitely a bit of judgment that I get

514
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: as a dude who's vegan, Like vegan men are considered

515
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: weak or malnourished and that couldn't be farther from the

516
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: truth is evidenced by bodybuilders and super athletes who are

517
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: plant based athletes. Like you can actually google that hashtag

518
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 1: too and find meatless um athletes out there showing you

519
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 1: that that vegans are just like yeah, and I find

520
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: that idea that you know, men, and I'm sure that's true,

521
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: that men feel like they are judged as like less

522
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: manly if they don't eat meat. I mean, that's a

523
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: really clear example of the way that the patriarchy hurts

524
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: us all. Men. You know, it doesn't matter if you're

525
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: like where you are in the gender spectrum first us all,

526
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: and that it's so silly that like your choice to

527
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: consume or not consume this thing ties into your your

528
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: your manhood or your masculine And I've seen people make

529
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: this point, which is could just I mean, it's just

530
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: so silly that being a vegan man somehow plays into

531
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: your like sexual virility that you know, actually because there's

532
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: research that shows too much consumption of meat is connected

533
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: to performance issues, know, wing wing right, and so yeah,

534
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: so if that totally goes against the science of this

535
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: idea that if you if you eat meat, your if

536
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: you don't eat meat, your girly man and you you know,

537
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: can't satisfy a woman. You know, that goes not only

538
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: is that dumb just because it's a it's a dumb thing,

539
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: but also it just goes against the science. Well, it

540
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: says that there's medical evidence that meat eating does increase

541
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 1: a problem, problems with clogging of the arteries that can

542
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: prevent good blood flow to organs, including blood flow to

543
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: the one organ you're all thinking right now. And so

544
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: there is some connection to erectile dysfunction as as induced

545
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: by too much meat. So it couldn't be further from

546
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: the truth. There's a book by a very macho article

547
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: author who a lot of feminists gave a lot of

548
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: rightful grief to when he named his book meat is

549
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: for Woosis, Except he didn't use the woes. He used

550
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,479
Speaker 1: a p. They're not even really comfortable saying that on air,

551
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: but that was his book. He was saying, listen, I

552
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: don't want to be a preachy vegan, but here's my

553
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: macho book about the benefits of veganism for us all.

554
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: What was the what was the fallout from that book

555
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: where people, you know, actually, what's been fascinating is he

556
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: he was. I was reading a few articles in which

557
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: he and Carol J. Adams were interviewed together, which was

558
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: funny because they couldn't be farther from each other on

559
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: the gender spectrum, And he said, I know the feminists

560
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: have given me a lot of grief about the title

561
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: of my book, but I stand by it because I've

562
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: got men writing me from prison talking about the benefits

563
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: of a plant based diet. I've got men who are

564
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: um who would never pick up Carol j adams book

565
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: The Sexual Politics of Meat who are going vegan because

566
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: of the way I've talked to them, and so there's

567
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: definitely there's a case to be made for it. But

568
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: what's said is that what veganism really is all about

569
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 1: is empathy for animals. And when we say that men

570
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: can't be empathic creatures without their manhood being called into question,

571
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: we're doing are all a disservice? Like everyone loses in

572
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: that scenario. Yeah, yeah, So I'd love to hear from

573
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: men who are vegans. I know that when I started

574
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: eating less meat. What was funny is previously Brad, whenever

575
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: he would cook for us read the boom Uh. He

576
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: often didn't cook meat, and I would give him a

577
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: little bit of grief about it, saying, where's the protein

578
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: in this meal? Because I'm very nutritionally conscious and health

579
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: conscious and he's all about efficiency when he cooks dinner,

580
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: which is cool, like I've become a much more efficient cook.

581
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: But but I was a little bit giving him some

582
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: guff and he would say to me, you don't need

583
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: as much approtein as you think you do, and he

584
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: was right, Yeah, that's definitely true. And when I became vegan,

585
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: people asked, Brad, what do you think about this? Poor

586
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: Brad Emily's gone vegan. You must be suffering as a result,

587
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: which I find really really annoying. That's offensive, super offensive,

588
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: and people don't think it is. And he would be like, what,

589
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't even cook that much meat beforehand,

590
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: and and you know, I'm not going to attest to

591
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: his virility on air. Now I'm sweating again. Here we go.

592
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: But um, but I just think it's important to note

593
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: is that like Brad and I both eat relatively vegan

594
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: throughout whatever, Like I'm much more purposefully vegan than he is.

595
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: But um, it's tough, like he would never go around

596
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: using that label to describe himself. And I know a

597
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: lot of men who are hesitant to come out as

598
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: we Well, you just brought up a point that I

599
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: think I want to men for your own safety, which

600
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: is that, in my experience, sometimes people do you get

601
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: very hung up on the label of vegan. And I

602
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: think I know that you yourself like you eat mostly vegan,

603
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: but you know sometimes you don't. Yeah, um, And so

604
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: I just don't want people to be like she said

605
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: she was vegan and I saw a picture of her

606
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: on Instagram with and I'm not sure I'll be vegan forever.

607
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: You know why, Let's talk about why should we take

608
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: a break first, Yeah, let's take a quick break, and

609
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: then I want to hear why you might not be

610
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: vegan for much longer? Okay, well forever forever? All right, Okay,

611
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: we'll be right back. So you're just telling us how

612
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: you might not be vegan forever? And why is that? Yeah?

613
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: So here's my my thing that I come back to

614
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: with veganism is that it's about intention, the intention behind

615
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: vegan life, the vegan lifestyle, which I think is beautifully

616
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: explained by that Vegan Society definition we brought up at

617
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: the very beginning is if you know doing what is

618
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: possible and practical to stand up for animals, and possible

619
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: and practical means different things to different people. And for

620
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: many folks out there, myself included, food deprivation or deprivation

621
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: in your diet can be a really dangerous thing. And

622
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: I'm talking about disordered eating. I'm talking about how veganism

623
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: can be a trigger for women who have overcome eating disorders.

624
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: I've dabbled, you know what I mean. I was a

625
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: college woman at one point around by a bunch of

626
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: waives at my alma mater, feeling like you know, I'm

627
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: I'm a larger woman in that I am an athletic,

628
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: athletically built woman. Waife was never in the cards from

629
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: a genetically And I remember dealing with somebody image issues myself,

630
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: like I think almost everyone has. And for me, dieting

631
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: or restrictive eating with the intent of weight loss or

632
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: depriving your off when you're feeling hungry can be really

633
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: a slippery slope. And I think I never if I'm

634
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: hungry and I have no options, I have no practical

635
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: or possible way to be vegan, and I'm younger, I'm

636
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: going to eat whatever I can. Yeah, I mean I

637
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: definitely I that resonates with me. I dated someone who

638
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: I am fairly certain was using veganism as a way

639
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: to mask disordered eating, and I think it gave this

640
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: very convenient excuse to kind of have that be something

641
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: you know that was going on heard for eating it

642
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: can be not certainly not for all. And I don't

643
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: even I don't know, you know, I don't know the

644
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: numbers behind it. But so that was something that I

645
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 1: and I think that you know, if you have dealt

646
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: with disordered eating, this idea of you know, restricting yourself

647
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: this or re setting yourself that like that can feel familiar,

648
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 1: and I think veganism can offer a a an avenue

649
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: for to do that in a way that it is

650
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: less obvious, right right, right right, And I think it

651
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: all comes back to your in mention behind it. Don't

652
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: become a vegan to lose weight, y'all, don't. It's like

653
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: not actually a guarantee. It's really not that, it's not

654
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: it's not the be all outcome. I feel like I

655
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: have a very positive body image of that. I'm like

656
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 1: really happy with my body is my one and only

657
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: right now. But part of the reasons that I um,

658
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: I feel like the way I eat my diet right

659
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: now is helping me maintain a healthy weight has very

660
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: little to do with veganism and has more to do

661
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: with a genetics be um, my active physical lifestyle, the

662
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: sort of things I do for physical fitness purposes. And

663
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: then see you can the food I eat is nutritious

664
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: as much as it can be. Although I have a

665
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: big sweet tooth and love lots of candy. But you

666
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: can eat vegan and still eat garbage, you know. I mean,

667
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: when I'm a vegan, I mostly ate French fries exactly exactly.

668
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: The potato chip and French fried vegan is real. It's

669
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: just like the pizza and pasta vegetarians was exactly that

670
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: kind of I mean, I've made crappy food choices for

671
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: most of my adult life. Well, I I love I

672
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: love food, and I refused to sacrifice flavor for veganism.

673
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: If I refused to um risk sort of disordered eating,

674
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: which can be a slippery slope. And I think there's

675
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: been a lot of articles I stumbled across in relationship

676
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: to this rise in veganism in the United Kingdom, uh

677
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: that I think are worth mentioning. So one one quote

678
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: I found really compelling is a health expert saying, it's

679
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: one thing when a fully grown adult goes vegan, but

680
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: it's another thing entirely when a still developing teenager tries it,

681
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: says Eating Disorders counselor Stephanie Moore. And in my opinion,

682
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: the fad for veganism among girls is a huge and

683
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: growing problem. And it's a problem because a teenage girls

684
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: are highly at risk for disordered eating and negative body

685
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: images because their bodies are changing. Although I would say

686
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: there's plenty of adult adult people out there who also

687
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: struggle with disordered eating. Um, but this sort of pinterest

688
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: perfect life style, this clean eating as a fad, is

689
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: also a miss categorization of you know, you can't feel

690
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 1: clean or dirty based on veganism alone, Like feeling like

691
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,919
Speaker 1: a dirty person for eating food is a very dangerous thought.

692
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not how bodies work. And this idea

693
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: that um you brought up earlier, this idea that if

694
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: you are a woman who gets her does not know

695
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: it's no longer menstruating, that means that you have hit

696
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: some sort of cleanness peak, that your body is so clean,

697
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: that you're no longer flushing out these toxins every month,

698
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: which is just bunk. That's just bad science. And think

699
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: none of that is real, you know, that's how it works.

700
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: Very problematic and controversial. These two vloggers on YouTube. There's

701
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: a YouTube video called how I Lost my period on

702
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: a raw Vegan diet, which takes it a little like

703
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: way too far, more than too far, there were too um.

704
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: One of them is Freely the Banana Girl, who's very

705
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: very popular online, and another leading vegan says a non

706
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: menstruating body indicates the body is clean and again clean

707
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: living here is brought up a sort of a mantle

708
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 1: of perfectionism, and that is a big old nope. All

709
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 1: of that is, None of that is real. All of

710
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: that is garbage. Periods are not chronically missing a period

711
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 1: can be serious cause for concern, go see a doctor.

712
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: And it's also a sign that you're you're at an

713
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: unhealthy low body weight and that your body fat is

714
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,800
Speaker 1: so low that you're at risk of lots of health problems,

715
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 1: one of which has to do with reproductive health. So

716
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: that makes me so angry. I mean, I I see that,

717
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: I see that online a lot. This idea of with

718
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: women and it's it's it's toxic and awful, this idea

719
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: that some bodies are clean and some are not. But

720
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: there's this thing going around on Instagram where it was like,

721
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: if you were a woman, show a picture of your

722
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: underpants to show that there was no that you weren't um,

723
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 1: you know, secreting any thing, and that that meant that

724
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: you were like very clean. Like I'm not kidding, looking up.

725
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 1: I love Amy Schumer's bit you're looking at your underwear. Yeah,

726
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: so's I can't even repeat it, y'all google it. It's

727
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: really funny. Um. But yeah, So this idea that somebody's

728
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: bodies like body secret discharges discharges honestly, like I think,

729
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: I don't want to tell you what my situation looks

730
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: like after a long day, but use your imagination. That's normal.

731
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: That's normal. And this idea that somebodies that don't do

732
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: you know, this very natural thing like sweating isn't or whatever.

733
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: I think that we tell women that and it comes

734
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: from this place of like shame about women's bodies, and

735
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: it's it's so awful. Yes, And there's a lot of

736
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: ways in which being a vegan can be unhealthy. There's

737
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: there are ways where it can be a part of

738
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: a mental disordered, like disordered eating um and an excuse

739
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: to just get your mom off your back when you're

740
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,439
Speaker 1: really just trying to never eat again UM. But also

741
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: just attempting the vegan lifestyle can be UM nutritionally dangerous too,

742
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: And I learned this the hard way. I had to.

743
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: I had to do more homework than I thought I

744
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: had to, because your body loses a lot of enzymes

745
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: that go into digestion, so that meant I needed to

746
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: start taking probiotic supplements and drinking a boatload of kombucha,

747
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: which is also a very privileged thing because kombucha is expensive.

748
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,479
Speaker 1: And I even looked into making my own kambucha, y'all.

749
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: That is hard to do. And if you think meat

750
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,479
Speaker 1: production is gross, I don't want to touch a scoby, y'all.

751
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: I mean it's do you notice scobie, the gelatinous thing

752
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: at the top. It's like a living mushroom basically at

753
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: the top of a jar of fermenting tea that turns

754
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 1: into kabucha. I love me some kambucha, but I don't

755
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: want to see how that sausage is may either remember

756
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: the first time I had kombucha, I thought if somebody

757
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: had a bottle of it in their fridge, and I

758
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: thought it was like it was like brightly colored. I

759
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: thought it was gonna be like it a je It

760
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: is basically tastes like vinegar, acidic, uh like t but

761
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: it's natural, it's good free, it's full of probiotics. Turns

762
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: out probiotics are good bacteria you need in your gut.

763
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: And I have learned as a vegan not only do

764
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: any probatics supplements, but I also really need to be

765
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: twelve supplements. Um, I'm still worried about my iron intake.

766
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: And you know, you just have to be really mindful

767
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: about where you're getting all your vitamins and minerals and

768
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: all the protein. You actually do need to be happy

769
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: and healthy and environment a position where I can help

770
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: my fellow animals on this planet out and not support

771
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: an industry I don't like. Like then I feel really

772
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: I feel really good about it. But God forbid? Can

773
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: we can we talk about the preachy vegan vegan? Well?

774
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: I yeah, I am definitely guilty of perpetuating the preachy

775
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: vegan because I know some preachy vegans You're not one

776
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: of them, but I do. I have experienced. I am

777
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 1: a covert vegan. This is a big scary step. I

778
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: didn't want to do this episode, Bridget. Do you remember

779
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't want to come out as

780
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: a vegan in a public way. People are gonna hate

781
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 1: me because it is easy to hate on vegans. Why

782
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: why is it so funny? Why I don't get it.

783
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I do mean basic, There these

784
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: things in society, like people who do CrossFit. I don't know,

785
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: there are these things that are like very easy to

786
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: make fun of it. I don't know, why do you

787
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: do cross fit? I'm not making fun of you. I

788
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: am just saying that it's easy to make fun of you.

789
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: I'm not making fun of you, but it is easy.

790
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: Look it up. Yeah. So I want to also acknowledge

791
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 1: that we had a really wonderful UM listener right in

792
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: from Her name is Margaret. She said she she gives

793
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: us this idea to begin with. Actually, Margaret, thanks Margaret

794
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: for the She talks about the benefits of veganism, how

795
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: she felt better, how she learned so much about what

796
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: goes into our food and products, which we barely even

797
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 1: touched upon. But veganism is not just about food, is

798
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 1: also about the products you buy and all that stuff.

799
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 1: But she goes, being a vegan is hard. Being a

800
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,959
Speaker 1: female vegan is even harder. I never intended to become

801
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: a quote hippie on this journey, but due to our sis,

802
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 1: siety and how we create products, I might as well

803
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,439
Speaker 1: be called one. Stereotypes surrounding vegans are hippies. And she goes,

804
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: these labels have such a negative connotation. Uh, you know,

805
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 1: the judgment others give you is crazy. And when she

806
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: said that, I wrote back to her saying, girl, yes,

807
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: I feel like the minute I dare say the word vegan,

808
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 1: people are have like free range jump all over my

809
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 1: case for being kind of a yuppie or threatening their lifestyle.

810
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,800
Speaker 1: There's this like sense of judgment that is implied that

811
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: every vegan is a quote preachy vegan and to be

812
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: a preachy vegan and somehow bad. And I think all

813
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: of that is undo. Yeah, I mean I think it's

814
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: I think it really can be cultural. Like I think

815
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: that the same way that like that wouldy Allen joke like, oh,

816
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: I'll have the He goes to California and it's like

817
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: I'll have the alfalfa sprout in the plate of mashed yeast, right,

818
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: Like I think that vegan might be think I think

819
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: it may be any Hall, although he's a terrible person,

820
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: so we talk about I don't even want to quote

821
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: them because screw you with Allen um. But you know,

822
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: I think, but I think that there can con sider

823
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: be a cultural marker around it where veganism is that

824
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: new thing where it used to be in the seventies

825
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: health food fads. You know. I think that this is

826
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: one of those things that I think becomes very popular

827
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: with a very specific audience, and it can become a

828
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: shorthand for um, you know, like perceived privilege, the same

829
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: way like avocado toast I think now and like lattees

830
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: what I have for breakfast? Oh I love avocado toast.

831
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: That eat it. I used to have a sticker that

832
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: said avocado toast on my laptop because I love it

833
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: so much. I can't believe it once was privileged enough

834
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: to be in that to make the cut. Yeah, because

835
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: you've got some really great that you used that real

836
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: estate wisely, I got some motifs going. But yeah, so

837
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: I think that it's easy It's one of those things

838
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 1: that it's easy to be like, oh, this is a

839
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: specific kind of person from a specific you know, timemic,

840
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of privilege wrapped up in there,

841
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: and it feels don't you feel like it feels threatening,

842
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: like why aren't you a vegan? Whenever I come out

843
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: as vegan, it seems that people around me assume what

844
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: I'm actually saying is why do you feel like it's

845
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 1: okay to not be I think that's totally a perception,

846
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: not anyone's, well, at least it's not my intent. And

847
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: here's the thing. I am grateful to those preachy vegans

848
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: who helped share information with me without knowing that they

849
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: were doing so that helped me learn about the industry. Yeah,

850
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: I mean I think that you're so right. I also

851
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: think it's interesting what things in our society that people

852
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: abstain from. Where if you tell them you're, you know,

853
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 1: I don't eat me, I don't drink that, they're like, oh,

854
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: you don't like that. It's not just because if I

855
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I don't do cract right, I would

856
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, I don't. I don't watch friends why

857
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: you know. So there's like neutrals, not just like obviously

858
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: you know agreements, yeah, but it's it's it's interesting how

859
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: when you say you don't eat meat, it's typically a

860
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 1: convert or you're a vegan. There's typically some conversation, whether

861
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: it's from people asking questions about why or from people

862
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: feeling like threatened. It's never just like okay, I literally

863
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: go to great links to not tell waiters even but

864
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: I'm vegan. I'll be like, um, can I can you

865
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: keep this off of that? Or I'll ask for substitutions.

866
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 1: And then finally, I was like going back and forth

867
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: with some waiter recently this weekend who was trying to

868
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: give me alternative suggestions, and I said, I'm a vegan.

869
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: You know, I kind of like was almost embarrassed to say,

870
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: because I know the the cultural stereotypical backlashes there. It's

871
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: it's really a weird thing because you don't want to

872
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: be the person that's like, do you have any vegan options? Well,

873
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to be that girl, when in reality,

874
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 1: um companies everywhere are making vegan options way more clearly

875
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: available because of the demand and because it sells, And

876
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 1: I think that's actually a really good thing. I'm thinking

877
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: of um, not all Bompain, but other French fast to

878
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: go restaurants, all red branding. Yet one might well call

879
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: it but pret a manger, as we Americans call it,

880
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: have gone to great lengths to basically brand themselves as

881
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,760
Speaker 1: we go to vegan. They do some good vegan sandwiches

882
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: and they label them as you know, I think their

883
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 1: window decore currently says for vegans and vegetarians and everyone.

884
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: So as a non vegan, I had to sort of

885
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: go through a transformation where I was okay with vegan food.

886
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: I live next to a really really popular vegan bakery

887
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: called Sticky Fingers here. It's amazing, it is really good.

888
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 1: But I remember whenever anybody would bring me their vegan cupcakes.

889
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: For a while, I was like, vegan, I don't want thieves,

890
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: and then like eventually it's like, you know, I had

891
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: to just accept that they are good. What's funny is

892
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: that Brad has witnessed I'm a big baker. He's witnessed

893
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: me baking him his favorite cakes and recipes pre and

894
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: post vegan, and we agree that there are certain recipes

895
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: that one made vegan, which is easy to do, y'all.

896
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 1: We can talk about that, but when made vegan are better.

897
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:59,439
Speaker 1: Much has been surprising. Um, this go to chocolate cake

898
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 1: of line. I substitute the eggs with chia seeds. You

899
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: can do like a chia egg another very, you just

900
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 1: rolled your eyes. I was rolling my eyes with something else,

901
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: I said she And then, um, you can make buttermelk

902
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 1: by taking almond milk and putting lemon juice in it,

903
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 1: and it kind of curdls in this way. That's an equivalency, okay,

904
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: and the cake comes out better. I'm telling you, I

905
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: made this amazing. We have the taste test this. This

906
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: is a great excuse yea follow up episode where we

907
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: taste test vegan. I love this is non vegan. You

908
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: can see the is it the great American baker the

909
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: cupcake Wars cupcake Wars? Oh? Was that her? So? She

910
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: was like the first vegan baker they had on. Was

911
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 1: in a competition against two other cupcake bakers, as you

912
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: might know if you're an avid cupcake baker fan like me,

913
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 1: and she won, and she was like, this is a

914
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: victory for vegans everywhere. Was like, anyway, I'm trying not

915
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: to make I want to make a joke, but I

916
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: shouldn't want. I'm just saying I think there's a lot

917
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 1: more vegans out there than we know, and I hope

918
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: that it's not just a basic white girl thing. I

919
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 1: really do. I think that's part of it is that

920
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: it's like this Instagram clean eating, zero period, zero body

921
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,399
Speaker 1: weight type thing, which is like, I definitely a far

922
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: far from zero body way like or zero body fat

923
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: is what I've been right, right, So, and I think

924
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: I think I actually see vegnis and getting more popular

925
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: with um black folks, and I really see that a

926
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: lot um And so I think I think that I

927
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 1: do think that maybe it has grounding in this sort

928
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: of like Instagram, Pinterest, clean eating, getting up early, going

929
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 1: to the farmers market, riding, riding or you know, bike

930
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: with a basket, this sort of like ideal perfection lifestyle.

931
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 1: But I see it moving away from here, which is

932
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:48,320
Speaker 1: probably better for me too. Yeah. Yeah, but listen, I

933
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: don't want to make it sound like, you know, I'm

934
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: being a sheepish vegan here pun fully intended, um, but

935
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: you know, I want to acknowl that for me, going

936
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: vegan definitely came with some weird backlash and weird opinions

937
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 1: from unsolicited like people who found my veganism somehow offensive. Um,

938
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 1: like what do you mean? Like my mom was like,

939
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: what am I going to cook you? Yeah? But um,

940
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: you know, and there are ways in which this can

941
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: be used as a crutch for a neating disorder, but

942
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: there's like tons of benefits and for me personally, I

943
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: actually just had my one year annual physical with my doctor,

944
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: which was just about Um, you know, I got blood

945
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: work done just about a year ago, right before a

946
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: year and a half ago, right before I went vegan,

947
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: went vegan a month later, and now a year and

948
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 1: a half veganism has done nothing but great things to

949
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: my body personally. So from a health standpoint, um, you know,

950
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: I didn't experience any negative effects. I take supplements to

951
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: make sure I get all the probiotics I need and

952
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: be twelve supplements to make sure I'm not uh, you know,

953
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: missing out on an nutrients. But you know, everybody is

954
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 1: different in the most literal sense. You know, biodiversity is

955
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: something you wanted to keep in mind when figuring out

956
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: what kind of diet works for you. Personally, I am

957
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: made to run on sugar. Maybe I'm like made to

958
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,280
Speaker 1: run on simple carbohydrates, and I think that you're a hummingbird.

959
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,439
Speaker 1: I'm a total hummingbird. I as I eat a high

960
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: chew right now on air, which I'm unpeeling. But um,

961
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: you know, the veganism really is the opposite of catosis,

962
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 1: which is, you know, the Atkins diet, which is really

963
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 1: protein heavy and protein focused instead of burning protein for

964
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 1: fuel and basically burning simple carbohydrates. Yeah, bread and um

965
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 1: sugars and for me, like fruits, vegetables, carbs, all of

966
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 1: those things got along really well with my body. And

967
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,399
Speaker 1: I just want to make it clear that I am unabashedly,

968
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, pleased with how veganism has gone over for

969
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: myself physiologically. And it felt really good to look back

970
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: on the end of last year and think, wow, like,

971
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: for the vast majority of this year, I did not

972
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 1: contribute to an industry I really fundamentally disagree with, and

973
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: I don't miss it, Like I like being able to

974
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 1: live true to my values in that way, I think.

975
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 1: But there are some qualms that people have with veganism,

976
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: but for myself personally, I found it to be a

977
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: very rewarding lifestyle that had very few negative ramifications. And

978
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: I just want to make that space for other vegans

979
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 1: who are listening to this, like very unapologetic, you know,

980
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: to just be clear that I think that that personally,

981
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: I've very much enjoyed this. So yeah, I want to

982
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 1: hear you know, as a meat eater, I want to

983
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 1: hear all of y'all's like, what do you think? Like,

984
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: I want to hear from meat eaters. What do you

985
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: think about this? Do you want to go vegan but

986
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 1: you just love your you know, um per tenderloin too much?

987
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: Do you think veganism is bs? What do you think

988
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: of echo feminism? What do you think this idea that

989
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 1: to be a good feminist it might make sense to

990
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: stop eating meat. I'm very curious. Yeah, So hit us

991
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: up on the Graham at stuff I've never told you.

992
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: You can send us an email at mom stuff at

993
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 1: has stuff works dot com, and you can of course

994
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: talk to us on Facebook and hit us up on

995
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff podcast. We cannot wait to hear

996
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 1: from you.