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Speaker 1: My next guest is Australia's wealthiest man, executive chairman of Fortescue,

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Speaker 1: one of the world's largest iron ore producers, also a

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Speaker 1: real believer in renewables. Well Andrew Forrest to welcome to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: It's always a pleasure to actually get your thoughts on

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Speaker 1: many things, not in the climate change, but commodities in China.

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Speaker 1: If we start with China, how do you see china

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Speaker 1: demand for commodities going. They keep on disappointing in terms

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Speaker 1: of economics, but we see stimulus at the margins from authorities.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think the stimulus will continue front scene because the

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Speaker 3: Chinese government is facing into really serious headwinds. They have

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Speaker 3: excellent climate scientists that we know the more personally we

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Speaker 3: work with them. Personally, they are predicting like we are,

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Speaker 3: that the world is in global warming now and that

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Speaker 3: everyone must move, that their own government must take solid steps,

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Speaker 3: really measurable fiscal steps to keep their economy going. Because

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Speaker 3: the negativity on the climate is happening hard to the

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Speaker 3: Chinese economy. I think they can recover and I think

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Speaker 3: they'll go through well. The rest of the world though,

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Speaker 3: Frans saying, where our directors, our policy makers aren't acknowledging

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Speaker 3: the same immediate and actual threat to our economy from

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Speaker 3: climate change.

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Speaker 2: They're the ones who could be in trouble.

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Speaker 4: But andrew what exactly is going on.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know whether there's a change of hearts

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Speaker 1: on climate change policies because we're also seeing Saudi Arabia

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Speaker 1: promising to mine more.

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Speaker 4: I think the.

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Speaker 1: UK is about to announce one hundred more licenses according

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Speaker 1: to the BBC for rigs in the North Sea. Do

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Speaker 1: you see a sea change in all economies about energy

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Speaker 1: security and therefore o use of fossil fuel and mining.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think we've got policy makers and executive chairman's chief

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Speaker 3: executives all of the world in this kind of time

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Speaker 3: walk this self interest, willful ignorance of what is happening

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Speaker 3: around them in the climate. Anyone can know that if

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Speaker 3: your ocean's are warming and it's ninety nine percent odd

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Speaker 3: of the world's livable space, and those oceans warming and

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Speaker 3: the land is just the whip on the end of

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Speaker 3: the tail, then if you're not taking notice of that,

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Speaker 3: then you shouldn't be a director, and you should be

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Speaker 3: holding your executives to account and not informing you that

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Speaker 3: you're going into sudden and massive change, and if you're

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Speaker 3: keeping on going as though you're not in global warming.

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Speaker 2: Then you're in dereliction of duty as a director.

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Speaker 3: No matter if your insurance company, crudential funds, management, huge

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Speaker 3: oiler gas company, and most importantly banks, banks keep funding

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Speaker 3: fossil fuel when they're hearing now from people like me. Look,

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Speaker 3: I'm just another scientist, but I'm also an industrial with

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Speaker 3: I'm warning people, this freight train is coming at you.

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Speaker 2: Change policy quick.

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Speaker 4: But we seem to see reversal on that. Right.

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Speaker 1: Even asset managers that wanted to push more ESG now

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Speaker 1: have some of the big oil chairmen on their boards.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing bangs being much more careful about ESG because

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Speaker 1: of a backlash.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think we all have to be really

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Speaker 3: careful now. I mean people are saying, well, I don't

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Speaker 3: really want to change because I'm getting such great revenues

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Speaker 3: out of oil and gas. I don't really want to

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Speaker 3: change because if I grant more license to oil and

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Speaker 3: gas explorers, I might get more tax revenue. Actually, they're

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Speaker 3: ignoring the elephant in their room, and that is the

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Speaker 3: fact that the climate is now brought hard into the picture.

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Speaker 3: And policies must change. When human lives are going to

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Speaker 3: get destroyed in scale because of your actions, then you

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Speaker 3: will be held accountable and you will not be able

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Speaker 3: to say, well, the economics I've had is a bit old,

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Speaker 3: three to five years old. They're saying, if I get

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Speaker 3: one and a half to five percent global warming, the economy.

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Speaker 2: Will still be in good shape.

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Speaker 3: That's like saying the global financial crisis never existed.

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Speaker 1: Andrew, we over promise to transition. That's actually much harder

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Speaker 1: to deliver in the timeline that we set out because

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Speaker 1: we don't have enough copper, because we don't have enough

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Speaker 1: of these components that are so necessary for renewables.

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Speaker 3: The front scene, I know you're passing on remarks you've

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Speaker 3: been given, and I'm sure that's not your belief, but

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Speaker 3: that is complete and utter rubbish. That is people like

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Speaker 3: me saying, you know, I just want to get back

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Speaker 3: in my Bentley, I want to drive down of my

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Speaker 3: smart house on the coast, and I just want to

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Speaker 3: pretend all this doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Exist, actually does exist.

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Speaker 3: You now have an absolute responsibility to not blame. Oh,

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Speaker 3: there's not enough copper in the world. There's not enough

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Speaker 3: with him, you know, there's not enough electricity.

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Speaker 2: There is there, absolutely is in action.

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Speaker 3: The lack of resource is chief executive and political will.

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Speaker 3: The only lack of resource the world has right now

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Speaker 3: to save it, which is preventing it from being saved,

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Speaker 3: is the will of chief executives and politicians. Everything else

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Speaker 3: is there. And to blame commodities, to blame electricity, that's rubbish.

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Speaker 3: We're just not moving.

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Speaker 1: So you think that it's basically politicians not having the

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Speaker 1: teeth to go against it because they're.

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Speaker 4: Worried of not being re elected.

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Speaker 1: Like, it's difficult for me to pinpoint what exactly is

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Speaker 1: going on, given we've also managed to stay away from

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Speaker 1: Russian gas and oil pretty successfully.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so let me help.

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Speaker 3: When you operate within a five year timeframe of an

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Speaker 3: election cycle or a bonus package in chief executives or

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Speaker 3: executive chamans, then you're operating to that five year cycle cycle.

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Speaker 2: And if you do not have the character of a

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Speaker 2: leader now, then that will drive you. Now, you shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be there. You're actually a fraud.

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Speaker 3: If that's how you operate, you know, just on an

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Speaker 3: election cycle or just on a five year bonus package,

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Speaker 3: then you're not actually a leader.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: People are entitled to assume if you're their chief executive,

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Speaker 3: there investing their hard earned retirement savings in you as

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Speaker 3: a chief executive, which or in you as an elected representative,

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Speaker 3: and they realize that you're not actually leading, you're operating

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Speaker 3: to a self interest cycle. In the impending crisis we have.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's okay.

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Speaker 3: Look, when you're not going in a war, you can

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Speaker 3: all be slack, fat and happy, Francine. But we're going

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Speaker 3: into war and we need now proper leaders. We can't

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Speaker 3: have people who are sitting in chairs in boardrooms and

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Speaker 3: cabinets who are frauds.

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Speaker 2: We need proper leaders.

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Speaker 1: So who's a proper leader right now in terms of

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Speaker 1: prime Minister or president? Does the Inflation Reduction Act go

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Speaker 1: far enough?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: So any leader who acknowledges I'm living now in global warming,

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Speaker 3: I must take immediate and proper steps. All the science

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Speaker 3: have been given, particularly with prudential authorities, with insurance companies,

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Speaker 3: with big oil and gas companies, with bank companies, All

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Speaker 3: that science have been given is wrong. The climate has

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Speaker 3: proven you wrong. Now you must take those facts into

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Speaker 3: account immediately and change your policies. It is not up

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Speaker 3: to the consumers to not consume energy. It's not up

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Speaker 3: to consumers not to fly to the other side of

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Speaker 3: the world to see grandmother. It's up to the energy companies,

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Speaker 3: the metal companies, and the politicians to change the energy

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Speaker 3: and the materials we give to consumers that doesn't wreck

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Speaker 3: the planet.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen a change in citizens that they were

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Speaker 1: behind some of these policies maybe twelve eighteen months ago,

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Speaker 1: now focus on other things, or do you see the

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Speaker 1: same results.

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Speaker 3: No, Look, I think I think we're a few weeks

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Speaker 3: and unfortunately this has happened so quickly, Francine. So that

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Speaker 3: momentum you're talking about, that negative momentum against doing much

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Speaker 3: about climate change, that's months old. What's happened in the

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Speaker 3: last few weeks is happened at such terrifying speed to

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Speaker 3: the scientific world of the collapse in ocean ice. Now

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Speaker 3: with claps and ocean ice. Of course, if you just

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Speaker 3: take a glass of water from one glass and fill

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Speaker 3: up already full glass, it's going to overflow. That's what's

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Speaker 3: going to happen in the ocean. You'll get a rising ocean.

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Speaker 3: The fact that there's huge Antarctic belts which hold the

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Speaker 3: sea levels to where they are and now letting their

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Speaker 3: ice go your steps away from inundation.

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Speaker 2: These steps are happening.

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Speaker 3: The fact the North Atlantic has warm to not small records,

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Speaker 3: but massive records of temperature, driving huge changes in ocean currents,

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Speaker 3: which is then the temperature of the world.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead, Frans, No, what does.

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Speaker 4: That mean for your investment strategy?

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Speaker 1: So the toys here in the UK look like they're

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Speaker 1: wavering on their net zero policy. Does that put you

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Speaker 1: off investing in there?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: I just have to say that everyone who votes Tory

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Speaker 3: votes Conservative votes slaver.

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Speaker 2: I really don't care. Take Kuntu camp the last month.

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Speaker 3: If you've missed the last month, you're missing one of

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Speaker 3: the massive turning points of our geologic planet, of our

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Speaker 3: human race. The last month is where you saw that

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Speaker 3: NASA prediction nineteen seventy eight the human world will not

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Speaker 3: do much about global warming until they feel its first

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Speaker 3: severe ravages.

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Speaker 2: Now that happened last month.

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Speaker 1: But so, as an investor, would you not invest in

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Speaker 1: a country where politicians either do on one eighty on

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Speaker 1: some of their policies or don't take a change center.

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Speaker 2: I will be say, look, take Britain, Take Britain.

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Speaker 3: I'm a major investor here If I see this country

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Speaker 3: steering itself over a cliff backing fossil fuel.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to start pulling out. I mean I will.

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Speaker 3: I'll push my investments over to North America where they're

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Speaker 3: not steering it, and I'll of course say the same

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Speaker 3: thing to other countries.

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Speaker 2: I must invest where I know I have.

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Speaker 3: Proper leadership, not leadership which is on a clickbait cycle.

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Speaker 3: I need leaders who can see, Oh, all that science

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Speaker 3: was from it was correct, but it's timing was so conservative.

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Speaker 2: It's wrong.

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Speaker 3: It's happened way quicker, Francine than anyone thought. I must

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Speaker 3: take this into acount. As leader, I must inform my population,

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Speaker 3: inform my shareholders, inform my voters that this has happened.

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Speaker 3: We now all must change.

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Speaker 1: But do you see a change in policy when it

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Speaker 1: comes to energy, if we have a change in government

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Speaker 1: with labor taking.

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Speaker 2: Oh front scene, not yet, not yet.

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Speaker 3: I mean you're talking the climate moving at kind of

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Speaker 3: the speed of.

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Speaker 2: You know, let's say aca race.

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Speaker 3: I mean, in geological terms, it is moving that fast. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm a major investor in batteries in the very top

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Speaker 3: end of the world. You know, we move like grease, lightning,

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Speaker 3: to new technology. The climate has moved like grease lightning,

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Speaker 3: and the human race this time is flat footed.

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Speaker 2: Our leaders are flat footed.

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Speaker 3: BP Shell, Amaco, you know sort of Aramco, the British government,

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Speaker 3: the American government, the Australian government, the Japanese, Chinese government.

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Speaker 2: If they're not moving, we.

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Speaker 3: Are entitled, as their voters and as their shareholders, to

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Speaker 3: hold them directly to account for dereliction of duty when

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Speaker 3: they had such severe warnings from the climate itself, not

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Speaker 3: from scientists, not from academics, not even from an industrialist

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Speaker 3: as a scientist as well, but from the climate itself.

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Speaker 1: So you will sue is it too late to change

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Speaker 1: TAC now? And if some of these leaders or companies don't,

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Speaker 1: will you sue?

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Speaker 2: No, You've had We're steps away from this. We're only

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Speaker 2: steps away from this.

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Speaker 3: You've had shareholders, children, activist groups overturning policy back in Australia,

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Speaker 3: where a minister's approved a coal mine, kids have come

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Speaker 3: in and challenged that and it's been overturned. Now that

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Speaker 3: is steps away from what could happen in the boardroom.

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Speaker 3: The fact that's happened in the political class is moments

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Speaker 3: away from the business class and I will not be

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Speaker 3: able to feel sorry for those chief executive chairmans or

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Speaker 3: politicians when they're held to account for being wilfully ignorant.

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Speaker 1: Now, Andrew, as always, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: That was Andrew for as the founder and executive chairman

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Speaker 1: of Fortescue, joining us for an exclusive interview