WEBVTT - FIRE: Choose Your Own Adventure #380 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.680 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.920 Matt and today we're talking about fire. Choose your own adventure, 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.920 that's right, Joel. The fourth of July was on Sunday, 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:32.120 and we're talking about financial independence, retire early, and we're 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:34.879 specifically going to talk about how it can look different 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:37.680 depending on what you wanted to look like, depending on 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:39.839 what your goals are and what you're trying to achieve. 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:43.519 I'm excited for this episode, buddy. There's different routes to success, 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:46.080 just like if you're playing a game like Settlers of Catan, right, 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.760 I mean, there's different ways that you can win, and 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.680 so you don't always have to take take the same routes. 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.360 And I think sometimes when we talk about fire, the 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:58.240 fire movement, it seems like there's one prescribed way to 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:00.920 get there, but we say no, there's actually a lot 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:02.600 of different paths. And so we're going to kind of 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:04.920 cover that in this episode for folks that are interested 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.520 in reaching financial independence, in doing so before they get 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:13.480 super wrinkly, uh, we'd say this episode for you. Speaking 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:15.600 of Gatan, I was always a fan of building multiple 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:19.360 cities on a high rolling commodity, like say sheep and 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.920 then getting that two to one port trading directly to 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:23.120 the bank. That way you don't have to trade with 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.080 any of your fellow players. That was always a fun 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:28.400 That was a good move for you to because you 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:30.600 annoyed all of your fellow players so much they didn't 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.080 want to trade with you. So I had been known 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:35.240 to do that. It's been years since we've played Settlers 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:36.720 like we would always play some of the other games 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.520 like king Domino or Carcassone. Acquire is like a new 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:41.640 real estate one that I feel like that. You know 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.840 that we've been playing a decent bit, but Settlers, like 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.479 the o G haven't touched it in years. Been a minute, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.800 spent a minute, Gotta pull it out, dusted off. Okay, 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.080 speaking of Acquire, this makes me think about real estate 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.040 and Matt. Before we start talking about fire, I want 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.200 to let you know, uh and our listeners know. So, 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:57.760 our family were having some renovations done to our house. 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.680 We're getting basically when when we bought this house, it's 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.520 a nineteen thirties house. It needed a ton of work, 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:05.560 but we decided to live in it. We're not the 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.760 back for a few years, um and now our family 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:10.800 wants to take over the whole house, and so we 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.000 need to renovate it away from being a duplex into 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.799 a single family home. And I got that second kitchen 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.880 that was kind of pointless. No need for two kitchens 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.040 really right in our family. And yeah, there's a lot 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:23.440 of work that needs to be done. So we're moving 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.919 out and we moved into this like super tiny house, 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:29.400 like square feet so kind of interesting, a lot smaller 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:31.280 than what you're used to write. I was starting to 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:32.519 a friend who used to live in New York and 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:36.200 he's like, that sounds palatial at least by New York standards, 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:38.680 but yeah, for Atlanta standards. To the family five, it's 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:40.680 very small. But it's actually it's it's been good for 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:42.320 our family in a lot of ways. We've been able 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.520 to kind of pare down some of our possessions and 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.919 it's been kind of fun to live in small quarters. 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.520 But I met my new neighbor there who's flipping the 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.760 house next door, and this is his second home that 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:54.839 he's he's renovating it and he's going to rent it out. 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.400 His name's Kyle, and it's so fun to kind of 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.959 talk to him as he's kind of just getting started 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:03.760 it in his real estate investing adventures. He's super excited. 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.280 He's listening to like the Bigger Pockets podcast every single 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.360 day because that's a one of one of the better 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.280 real estate investing podcasts out there. And yeah, I just 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.560 wanted to say, like one go Kyle, I'm proud of you, 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:17.560 and I'm I hope you kicked butt and um and 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:19.760 just to everybody out there, like if you've been wanting 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.320 to get started investing in real estate, I know, now 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.960 maybe not the easiest time to buy a house, but 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.440 you know what, Kyle made it happened. He's he's the 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:29.840 numbers work for the house that he bought. And it's 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:31.760 not gonna work in every market, but I just want 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:33.560 to let you know, you know, Kyle, is this glimmer 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.720 of sunshine in like a market of insanity out there 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.200 that it can be done. You can buy a rental 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.040 property where the numbers actually are going to work for you. Yeah, 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.280 the opportunities still exist, right, I mean, it's not going 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.160 to be as easy as it was, say ten years ago, 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:48.080 but the deals are out there, especially if you're willing 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.880 to put in the work, uh to find those specific deals, 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:52.760 and of course you'll make sure to keep all of 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.160 us updated as to how your home renovation is going. 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:59.440 Maybe after living in that that new tiny more uh affordable. 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:00.800 I don't want to call it a cheap house because 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:03.200 it's actually really nice. I've I've checked it out. Maybe 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:05.280 what if you end up deciding to live there full 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.240 time and uh, you guys start downsizing, you're gonna take 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:10.920 the minimalist approach. Down with the downsizing. I am down 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.560 with the downsizing, But we would miss our house. Yeah, 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.680 and in our our location. We were already we have 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:18.520 all about the location. We haven't been in the house 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:19.960 very long. It's just you know, a mile and a 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.559 half away. But still that's that's a long way away 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:25.080 from my people, so my neighbors that I love, my 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:27.880 you know, friends right down the street. I missed that already. 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:29.520 Instead of a two minute bike commute now to the 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:31.840 studio here, now you have like a ten minute bike 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:33.840 commute or something like that. But it's actually kind of nice. 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:35.520 I get more work out of it. That's that's actually 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:37.000 one of the benefits. School has been out, man, and 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.440 I actually haven't been biking at all, and I got 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:41.279 up my game when it comes to my physical fitness, 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.640 but kind of counter to that, let's introduce the beer 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:47.960 that we're gonna enjoy this episode. This is a beer 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.080 by Microphone Brewing, and this one it's called Smells Like 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.400 Being Spirit and it's a double maple stouts. Looking forward 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.279 to enjoying this one and sharing our thoughts on it 0:04:57.320 --> 0:04:59.520 at the end of the episode. Sounds good. But for now, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.960 let's get to the subject at hand. We're talking about fire, 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.760 financial independence, retire early, choose your Own Adventure, and basically, 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:09.560 matt Um, we were talking about kind of what how 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.480 we wanted to approach this episode. I was thinking about 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.159 those Choose your Own Adventure books. Um, I'm you know, 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.880 we all read them as kids. I always enjoyed them. 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:22.360 I think Actually Netflix recently did a similar style television 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:24.520 show with bear Grills or he's like out in the 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:26.159 wild and he's like, do you want me to eat 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:30.400 the snake or punch it? Uh? Seriously, yeah, I know. 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.960 I mean they never watched it, but that's what Black 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:35.599 Mirror did that with like one of their finales, Bander Snatch, 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:37.560 you know, where they had multiple endings or four or 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.480 five different endings that you could choose, uh, to kind 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.880 of incorporate some of that nostalgia from the from the 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.200 nineties and those Choose your Own Adventure books. So, yeah, 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.359 choose your own adventure still still hot, still happening in 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:50.360 these days. But I always remember I kind of keeping 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:52.320 my finger on the original page as I made the 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:54.000 next choice, just in case I was like, oh, man, 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.000 I don't like that. I'm going back and I'm gonna 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.320 opt for the other choice in case you get bitten 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:02.440 by a snake. Exactly exactly. And since Independence Day was 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.479 this past weekend, it's really only fitting to keep talking 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.520 about the pursuit of financial independence today on the show, right, 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:10.920 And yeah, just like those Choose your Own Adventure books, 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.480 I think the path that people take towards to achieve 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.679 financial independence, it can look really different from person to person. 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.720 There are lots of different types of financial independence and 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:22.880 then also to lots of different tactics you can take 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:25.279 to get there. Yeah, this past Monday's episode, that's what 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:27.520 we talked about with Rachel Richards. We actually talked through 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.560 some of the different ways to generate passive income, uh 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:34.000 that would eventually hopefully lead you to financial independence. But yeah, 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.599 the pursuit a financial independence doesn't have to look a 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.599 specific way. Uh. So, yeah, we wanted to talk today 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.440 about the different styles, the different flavors of being financially 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:45.520 independent and sometimes, you know, just discovering just even the 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.720 range of options can be a major encouragement as we 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:51.840 seek to find a lifestyle that works for our own 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.000 personal lives. You know, saving up five million dollars so 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:56.480 that you can kick back in your in your later 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.160 years might not be your thing. It may not even 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:01.960 be possible. Right, Yeah, that's a tall task, and that's 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.480 okay because fire can look different for everyone. And so 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.279 we'll talk about the different types of fire and then 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.040 some of the most important tactics to consider on your 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.040 path to achieving fire. Uh. There is no right or 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.960 wrong answer. There's just different approaches to financial independence, for sure. 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.280 And so yeah, we I mentioned that FIRE stands for 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:25.120 financial independence retire early. That acronym has become maybe fraught 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.600 with some baggage, although it has been the gateway for 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:29.760 a lot of young people to realize that they have 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.520 more power over their financial lives than they thought. I 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.280 feel like as that acronym has caught on, it's been 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:39.120 kind of a whipping horse for the media at many 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.600 turns to kind of disparage the movement and people that 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.160 are seeking to retire early. But at the same time, 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.240 it's helped a lot of people conceptualize the idea that 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.840 they can reach financial independence before they do hit traditional 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.800 retirement years. Um. It's empowered a lot of hard working 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:58.920 folks to realize that the stock American belief that working 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.400 forty plus hours so week for forty plus years then 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.160 retiring to Florida isn't the path that they have to take. 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:07.480 And yeah, we think that's a good thing. Um. It's 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:11.360 simply put fire. Getting to that point where you're financially 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.880 independent usually means having twenty five times your annual expenses 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.080 saved up, although one of the things we covered on 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.600 Monday's episode with Rachel is that that's not always how 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:23.520 it looks. Sometimes it can look like your monthly spending 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.920 being covered by passive income through something like real estate too. 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:28.800 That's right. Yeah, So we're gonna talk about fire in 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.520 depth today, but we don't necessarily endorse everything you know 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.160 that the movement is all about. We talked about the 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.319 pros and the cons of fire back in episode to 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:38.160 twenty one, so you can check that one out if 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.760 you haven't listened to it. Uh, And there really are 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.200 a lot of good things that the movement has done, 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.520 including starting some important conversations in the public space. As 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.079 big media has covered fire, I feel like it has 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:52.560 open the eyes of a lot of folks who haven't 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:54.920 considered it before. But that doesn't mean that fire is 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.360 for everyone, right. I could even see it being harmful 0:08:57.440 --> 0:08:59.960 to some individuals. Right, So, say you jump too heavily 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:03.080 into the fire world, you might be tempted into grinding 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.880 too hard for the next fifteen years to achieve this 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:09.120 specific monetary goal, and then reaching that goal may not 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.520 be as satisfying as you think it will be. And 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.199 so we're you know, we're bigger fans of the f 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.880 I part, the financial independent part, and we're all about 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.120 making intentional choices to make sure that we get there, 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:20.440 but not necessarily pursuing it with all the gusto that 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:22.439 you can muster. We feel that can that can lead 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.280 to burnout. A lot of times. I think folks think 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.560 that when they achieve fire, once they're financially independent, that 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:29.600 all the problems are going to go away. But that's 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:31.880 definitely not the case. I think those folks are going 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:33.920 to be in for a rude awakening, Yeah, for sure. 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.480 And Matt, let's talk maybe about the history of the 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:40.040 Fire movement too, because that's helpful, I think as as 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:43.679 we kind of discuss it at length today. In the 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.520 history of Fire really predates the acronym. I don't know 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.280 exactly when the Fire acronym started. It feels like, I 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.679 don't know, maybe sometime ten years ago, eleven years ago, 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.560 that's my that's my guess. But really there were people 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.280 talking about this concept um and people living a life 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:02.959 that reflected this concept far before that acronym came about. 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.199 Vicky Robin. She was the co author of the best 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.480 selling book Your Money or Your Life, and she and 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.400 her co author really helped popularize the idea of financial 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.160 independence in the nineteen nineties. But these principles have been 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.680 around even before that, and it really it really starts 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:18.760 with creating a big gap between what you earn and 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.880 what you spend. And um, the bigger the gap, you know, 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.400 the quicker you're gonna be able to reach that place 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.600 in your life where your money is working harder for 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:28.439 you than you have to work for it. And Yeah, 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.400 the cool thing is that those fundamental principles haven't changed, 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.720 but the way that those ideas get communicated really has. 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:37.680 And so yeah, that, like we said, has helped this 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.440 movement out in a big way. It's become a really 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.120 powerful communication tool to help spread a message that can 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.320 be pretty empowering. That is true. But you know, in 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.400 recent years, the actual fire acronym has been popularized, you know, 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.040 quite a bit by single males who work in higher 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.760 paying like software and technology jobs, um, and you know, 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:58.640 sort of like you mentioned earlier, like the movement has 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.120 caught some flak for that. It has become a whipping 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.760 horse with media, and in some ways, we feel that 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.000 this was kind of a bit of a stereotype because 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.000 on our show, many of the guests that we've had 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.560 that are in the Fire movement they don't fit that bill. 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:13.120 They're not you know, single males who were working in 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:15.720 you know, high paying jobs. Although we definitely have had 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:17.640 some of those guys on, We've also had folks on 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.800 the show like Jillian John's Rude Julian and Kirsten from 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.240 from rich and regular here in Atlanta, Liz Thames, Tanya Hester. 0:11:24.720 --> 0:11:27.360 They have all shown that there is more diversity than 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.959 than some people think inside of the actual Fire movement. Yeah, 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.280 and I think the Fire movement has grown to really 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.680 encompass a whole lot of folks that look a lot 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:39.559 different than the stereotypes that we see portrayed. And although 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.960 like probably one of the most popular figures in the movement, 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.280 it probably does fit that stereotype to a large degree. 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:48.680 And that's Mr money Mustache, right, who was a software 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.280 engineer but before he quit, right, And so yeah, he's 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:56.199 he's like probably the best known writer um in that spear. Uh. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.120 And he is a really good writer. So there's a 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.760 reason why, right, he has well it in creative posts 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:02.520 that help people think through what it looks like to 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.720 save more money by changing their lifestyle. And Matt he 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.880 takes us really like brash approach in in how he 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.600 writes and h yeah, he's referred to the typical middle 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:17.000 class lifestyle as and I quote an exploding volcano of wastefulness. 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:20.160 It talks about folks driving around in their clown cars, 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.800 you know, just like the different vehicles that we drive 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.560 that are completely unnecessary and and we you know, we 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:27.080 agreed to that to a certain extent. That's a part 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.680 of why we love biking. So much, but like when 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.720 you read his post, you feel compelled to change some 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:34.560 of the things that you're doing because of the stark 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.120 contrast anything that it hangs. He does a good job 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.359 with that, and so yeah, he makes fire, financial independence 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:42.880 and retiring early feel like something you don't have to 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.600 grind to achieve, but more like away folks should be 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:49.880 living anyway instead living less wastefully and just living more intentionally. Yeah, 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:51.800 he makes it make intuitive sense where it feels like 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.040 it's something that you should naturally be doing anyway. And 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.120 the thing is too folks like Mr money Mustash and 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.120 Vicky Robbin. For them, the fire concept goes beyond just 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.160 the dollars in the set. You know, they're all about 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.600 decreasing our environmental footprint as well. You know, connecting your 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.280 spending and your money choices to bigger ideals can be 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.319 really helpful. But that's just one of the additional benefits 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.839 of fire right. It's not necessarily a requirement, because again, 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.440 fire can look different for everyone. You can choose your 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:19.880 own adventure. And so we're actually gonna talk more about 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.040 the different types of fire, financial independence, retire early, some 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.360 of the different flavors out there that you might want 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.480 to subscribe to. And we'll get to that right after 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:39.760 this break. All we're back, we're talking about fire and 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:41.720 how there's a bunch of different ways that you can 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.120 get to that point. I think it's helpful for folks 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.120 to know that there's not just a one size fits all, uh, 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.800 when you're looking to save up enough money that you 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.600 don't have to work anymore. So, Matt, But before we 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.520 get to maybe some of those different types of models 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.160 that people can follow in order to achieve that, let's 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.280 maybe talk about the general concept of retire it for 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.160 just a second, because you know, just like we talked 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.600 about the fire movement, the fire acronym being relatively new, well, 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:11.800 the general concept of retirement is pretty new in and 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.800 of itself. For most of human history, working your whole 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:19.720 life was the thing, like you didn't really have. We 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.920 didn't have, you know, social security, but choice, we didn't. Yeah, 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:24.720 it's what you had to do, like working working to 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:27.640 land until you dropped dead while working the land. And 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.720 I'm glad that that's not the way life is anymore, right, um, 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:35.040 And So retirement being a thing is a good thing, 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.480 but it's also important to keep that in mind. As 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.760 we discussed this that the modern concept of retirement is 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.400 relatively new. Uh, it's not something that our ancestors four 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.560 hundreds of years have been participating participating in. It's not like, 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:50.440 you know, you're great great, great, great great great Grandpa 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:52.760 in the sixteen hundreds moved Florida and walked on the 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:57.080 beach every day because searching for sharks, which is let 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.320 our kids do know, wake at at the beach. Ye 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:01.080 back then it was the thing. Yeah, back then they're 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.080 just trying to avoid the bubonic plague, right, which actually 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.400 that's not too different I guess from our recent the 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.920 recent year that we've had. Uh. And you know, the 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.120 concept of fire, it does have its merits, right, the 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.480 fact that you don't have to work when you save 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.600 up enough money is great. But at the same time, 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:21.360 some folks in the fire movement emphasize the negativity of work, right. 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.000 It's you know, it's certainly not that everyone get gets 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:25.800 pumped to wake up and to go and do their 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.520 job every day, but focusing on early retirement makes work 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:31.320 seem like a drag meant to be ditched at the 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.600 earliest possible moment. And you know, we're not really down 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:35.440 with that, and that's another reason why we're just more 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.480 focused on the financial independence side of the equation less 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.680 on the retire early side of things. Um. I think, 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:43.320 I mean, I think we both believe that in order 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.320 to live a fulfilling life that it involves service, whether 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.040 or not you're getting paid for it, whether or not 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.040 you're being compensated at a very high amount, or if 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.040 you're just kind of receiving just kind of a you know, 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.360 may we have a more minimum wage for for the 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.720 service that you're doing, but service eagles work, right, And 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.600 so for that reason, we're not trying to escape work. 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:03.920 But we do want folks to have more options as 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:05.760 they go through life. And that's what we're talking about today. 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.200 And if someone came up to me and they said, 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:08.960 all right, if I take this job and I work 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.440 for the next twelve years really hard, I can reach 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.600 financial independence, but I'll hate most every minute of working 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.040 at this job, I would say, don't do it. I 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:20.080 would rather you take much much longer to achieve financial 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:24.560 independence than pursuing something for the next decade plus that 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.480 you don't enjoy in the least. Um, just in order 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.240 to get there more quickly. Assuming that the alternative is 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.960 a job that you love, right, So twelve years of 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:35.720 basically life that you hate. But that's the thing, there's 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.720 that that's never the only option. It is like between 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:40.960 two jobs that you hate, right, right, you can always 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:42.680 go find something that you love to pay is less 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.160 or that you enjoy and granted, like like you said, 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.320 even people that enjoy their jobs, they're not going to 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.280 be thrilled to go into the office every day or 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.800 you know, even even coming to the microphone. Sometimes I'm like, 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:55.280 maybe I'm not in the best mood to record a 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.560 podcast that day, but I get through it. You know, Um, 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.680 maybe you're mad at me, anything to share today. We're good. 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.520 We're good, good. But yeah, that's that's one of those 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:07.120 things where I think sometimes the fire movement can turn 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.240 work into such a villain that it can really affect 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:13.120 the mindset of some of the people working to achieve fire, 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.760 and I think that leads to the downfall of some 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.480 of those people. Um and maybe like the burnout factor 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:20.639 that some of the people trying to go down the 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.359 fire path tend to experience. That's right, Yeah, so the 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:26.800 path to fire can look different based on your particular circumstances, 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:30.520 your specific goals, and you know, unsurprisingly, the media tends 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:32.840 to take extreme positions. Uh, And I feel like they 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.480 oftentimes either make fire seem like like it's only for 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.840 incredibly high earning tech bros out there, or just for 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.280 folks who you know, want to live a meager existence 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.560 of like eggs and beans, or like like just the 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.840 cheapest what's like, what its rising? Beans? Why say eggs, 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.120 because like, eggs are really cheap. Eggs are super affordable, 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.320 good for you, they're cheap, large part of our diet 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.960 here in our household, but just essentially subsisting on like 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.120 fifteen thousand dollars a year, right, that's the only way 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.080 you can achieve it is if you either make bouckoos 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.200 of dollars or you live on next to nothing exactly. 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.159 And that's just not the case. That dichotomy is not 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.720 quite right. Yeah. Yeah, there's more diversity all on the 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.040 fire spectrum, and chances are that there's going to be 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.760 a version or a flavor that is going to appeal 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.240 to you. So let's get it off me, let's talk 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.159 about some of the different types of fire. Let's do 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:17.880 it all right, so we just you know, you mentioned 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.640 the beans and rices lifestyle living on k there are 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.440 some people who that style of fire. It fits their needs, 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:26.479 it fits like their desires in life, and they're like, 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.120 I just want to be financially independent and I don't 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:34.399 mind living an incredible frugal lifestyle. And for those folks 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:37.280 who lean in that direction, they're going to be into 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.679 what's called lean fire. And so yeah, this is for 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:42.720