Speaker 1: Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O Day covering the Diddy Trial.
Speaker 2: Welcome everyone to Amy and TJ Presents Aubrey O Day.
Speaker 2: I'm Amy Robock alongside my partner TJ Holmes, and we
Speaker 2: have Aubrey with us to talk about what's going on
Speaker 2: with the Sean Diddy Coombs trial. And Aubrey certainly has
Speaker 2: perspective like no one else.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, But we're going to get into some of the
Speaker 1: details from of course the star witness, Cassie Venturer. But
Speaker 1: can you just give me your initial impression because so
Speaker 1: many of us have heard this testimony and your jaws
Speaker 1: are dropped, But give me your impression of what we've
Speaker 1: heard so far and how she's doing. We'll get into
Speaker 1: some details, but just initial impression of how she's done.
Speaker 3: Initial impression from what I'm able to read in the
Speaker 3: transcripts and from people that I have giving the information
Speaker 3: in court is it feels very honest. It feels very open, vulnerable, horrific.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I hear her discuss things that she did then
Speaker 3: and how now she would never she understands it differently,
Speaker 3: and that makes me feel like so happy for her
Speaker 3: that she's come, you know, because I don't know her
Speaker 3: as a mom, so like to understand that she made
Speaker 3: that evolution and went to the other side of viewing
Speaker 3: all of it made me feel like really proud of her.
Speaker 3: It's horrific that it's horrific that she had to go
Speaker 3: through go through so much. You know, there was one
Speaker 3: part of the testimony that was so telling. It's not
Speaker 3: even anything anyone's really touching on, but there was a
Speaker 3: transcript that I read that went something like like, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't really or can we talk? I wanted to
Speaker 3: bring something up to you and he's like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know you don't want to do the freak out now.
Speaker 3: You so predictable. That's a very It's a statement that
Speaker 3: groomers make if you've ever dated anyone that doesn't really
Speaker 3: love you and is like abusive usually and pushing you
Speaker 3: into things. It doesn't even have to be sexual. It
Speaker 3: could be anything they want you to do. It's like
Speaker 3: almost training a child, right like, oh, you want to
Speaker 3: bring up this? You so predictable, like you just like
Speaker 3: the rest of them. And then you get that feeling
Speaker 3: as a woman to be like no, wait, I'm not
Speaker 3: I promise you then talk yourself back into an idea,
Speaker 3: same way when she was brutally abused in that hallway,
Speaker 3: him writing her, I'm about to get arrested. The police
Speaker 3: are here. They've already testified to the fact that there
Speaker 3: was no arrest and there was no police arresting him.
Speaker 3: That was to get her to come back.
Speaker 2: That control, it's.
Speaker 3: Control, coercion, it's grooming. It's all pieces of many things
Speaker 3: that make me really understand how much manipulation was involved
Speaker 3: in getting her to activate the emotions that he wanted
Speaker 3: her to project.
Speaker 2: Aubrey. So many of us who have been listening to
Speaker 2: Cassie's testimony have been shocked. I mean, we had heard
Speaker 2: like just general details about what she might say, but
Speaker 2: to actually hear her go into descriptive detail about what
Speaker 2: she says she experienced over a decade. Was there anything
Speaker 2: she said in these last several days of testimony that
Speaker 2: surprised you, that shocked you? No, Wow, What was the
Speaker 2: hardest thing to hear from her?
Speaker 3: That she felt so loved in his company, and she
Speaker 3: felt he made her feel unlike anyone else, and so
Speaker 3: she would do these things because it was the only
Speaker 3: time and chance that she got to really spend in
Speaker 3: that feeling that was That was a hard listen because
Speaker 3: I think any woman that's ever cared for somebody that
Speaker 3: may not have that ability or desire to, has pandered
Speaker 3: in one way or another, whether it's a sex party
Speaker 3: or bringing themselves down to certain levels that no woman
Speaker 3: should have to emotionally saying things, utilizing whatever tool any
Speaker 3: woman finds herself having as valuable or has been told
Speaker 3: because yet to remember, women see ourselves through the projection
Speaker 3: of men. You know, since we're young kids, since we're
Speaker 3: young girls, we're kind of groomed into these social ideas
Speaker 3: and norms. I mean, should I just turn forty one
Speaker 3: and people are saying to me, oh, so you didn't
Speaker 3: want kids, Well, I honestly, I'm just getting to age
Speaker 3: where I'm finally free from a lot of chaos and
Speaker 3: could start thinking about that. I realize that that's troubling
Speaker 3: for everybody else because it's geriatric and whatever all the
Speaker 3: titles are, But actually, yeah, I do. I've always wanted kids,
Speaker 3: but the answer has already decided for me when somebody
Speaker 3: comes to me. There's so many social norms that women
Speaker 3: just accept, and in that instance, I just know that
Speaker 3: I know what it feels like to year and after
Speaker 3: somebody that I really loves attention. And there probably were
Speaker 3: a lot of ways that I have compromised. No, let
Speaker 3: me not say probably. There are many ways that I
Speaker 3: have compromised myself. Not in the same ways as Cassie necessarily,
Speaker 3: but I don't judge her compromise. A compromise is a compromise.
Speaker 3: When you compromise yourself, you're doing the same damage. It
Speaker 3: really doesn't matter in what area, it's all the same.
Speaker 3: That knowledge of understanding how we compromise for people's love
Speaker 3: is something I believe that will resonate just with everybody.
Speaker 3: It certainly had me going through all my relationships like, wow,
Speaker 3: I thought this relationship was something like this, and I've
Speaker 3: always narrated it and believed it to be so. But
Speaker 3: as I start to think about it, there were times
Speaker 3: that I yearned for this person's attention, and there were
Speaker 3: there were ways that I was not true to myself
Speaker 3: in order to get it. And it's because of all
Speaker 3: kinds of things for me, you know, a bad childhood,
Speaker 3: not ever feeling like anyone would fight for me. I
Speaker 3: don't have a mom and dad or anyone to call,
Speaker 3: and because I spent from my young days to forty
Speaker 3: one being in this industry, I didn't It's not like
Speaker 3: I made a good friend like a group of girlfriends
Speaker 3: while while my friends were doing that in their twenties
Speaker 3: and thirties, I was uber famous. So it's not like
Speaker 3: I have this group of friends that I even go to.
Speaker 3: So it's it's just a I don't know. That was
Speaker 3: the part of the testimony that really like stood out
Speaker 3: to me as being as really making me recall a
Speaker 3: lot of times that I have done that.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw us both react, We
Speaker 1: looked at each other because we were I think we
Speaker 1: both got tears in our eyes reporting on that this week,
Speaker 1: that was the moment that was most chillingest to hear
Speaker 1: all the horror, but for her to say the highlight
Speaker 1: of a freak off was she just enjoys spending time
Speaker 1: with him. That was that was tough.
Speaker 2: That jumped out at us too. So when you said that,
Speaker 2: we both said, Wow, we had the exact same react.
Speaker 3: And remember what I said to you last time, There's
Speaker 3: nobody else that I would want to revisit more than him.
Speaker 3: When he is proud of you and when he gives
Speaker 3: you his attention and thinks that you're great, and if
Speaker 3: you notice. In her testimony, she says, I don't know
Speaker 3: what the first freak off was. I was drugged. It
Speaker 3: was weird. I felt dirty, I felt embarrassed, but then
Speaker 3: he was really proud of me, and so I felt good.
Speaker 3: I understand all of those emotions in regards to that man.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: It's so it's something so many of us can.
Speaker 1: Okay, help us with And how does it play into
Speaker 1: the story? We a lot of us didn't know it.
Speaker 1: She was nineteen when they met. He kissed her, she said,
Speaker 1: he testified at a birthday party. She said was unwanted.
Speaker 1: At the time. She wasn't comfortable with the idea of
Speaker 1: dating him. What do you make of I don't know
Speaker 1: if you knew that story already, But what do you
Speaker 1: make of hearing that and how it now played into
Speaker 1: I guess the rest of their relationship.
Speaker 3: I think it would probably be very You know, I've
Speaker 3: dated somebody in a very compromising state and position that
Speaker 3: wasn't necessarily fully open to the world, and so I
Speaker 3: kind of had to play along with whatever the narratives were.
Speaker 3: And there's an exhilaration there. The lifestyle that did he
Speaker 3: live is so extreme in every way. I think that
Speaker 3: that could have been There could have been like an
Speaker 3: excitement there. There could have been a fear. There could
Speaker 3: have been like, you know, butterflies in your stomach when
Speaker 3: somebody that powerful wants to experience you in that way.
Speaker 3: I don't know how she testified to feeling about it.
Speaker 3: I think she just was like, WHOA, that happened? Like
Speaker 3: I didn't see that it was bad or good in
Speaker 3: the testimony. I'm not sure if I missed something, but
Speaker 3: I think it probably it probably made her feel that,
Speaker 3: like of everybody around, he wanted her, which maybe made
Speaker 3: her feel like she was very special.
Speaker 2: You've talked about all the people around Diddy who were
Speaker 2: there to make sure he had his every need met.
Speaker 2: When you heard Cassie testify about all the people who
Speaker 2: supplied the drugs, the baby oil, who all had to
Speaker 2: be a part of creating these freakouts, or at least
Speaker 2: the ambiance around them. The lighting had to be correct,
Speaker 2: the hotel rooms had to be.
Speaker 3: Very ditty, very scorpio, very visual.
Speaker 2: Were Yes, were you aware? Like I know that you
Speaker 2: said you weren't surprised by your testimony, But did everyone
Speaker 2: know that this was all going on, that these freakoffs
Speaker 2: and these sex parties were happening, And apparently there had
Speaker 2: to have been so many bottles of these of this
Speaker 2: baby oil around that. I mean, that was a big
Speaker 2: headline obviously early on. But you start hearing about just
Speaker 2: how much and why he wanted it, and was that
Speaker 2: all common knowledge?
Speaker 3: So I never witnessed a big room of baby oil
Speaker 3: in my time there, but on set we were to
Speaker 3: be lathered and shining. You know, they always used either
Speaker 3: baby oil later on down the line. All of oil
Speaker 3: spray can make you like shine, shimmer To me, I
Speaker 3: still use it when I do photo shoots because it
Speaker 3: was a great tool to learn during my time in
Speaker 3: the beginning making music videos. And when you shine, it
Speaker 3: looks better on camera to me. All of that plays
Speaker 3: into these visual aesthetics that were pleasing enough for him
Speaker 3: to be sitting in the corner and jacking off to it.
Speaker 1: You know, I haven't heard somebody put you made a
Speaker 1: good point. I hadn't thought about in all these videos.
Speaker 1: It wasn't just think it's a part. Yes, it's a
Speaker 1: part of sex, and maybe they're slipping and slid and
Speaker 1: having a good time. Do you think but you're saying
Speaker 1: it'sduction value to it that I hadn't.
Speaker 2: Thought about it, that he was almost creating his own pornow.
Speaker 3: Yes, he also made music videos all the time. I mean,
Speaker 3: this is a man that lived and breathed in the
Speaker 3: creative space and produced albums and records and music videos
Speaker 3: and all of the above. I mean he would come
Speaker 3: on set whether we had a full blown direc and
Speaker 3: everything else, and when he got on set, if he
Speaker 3: wanted everything a whole different way, that's what had to happen.
Speaker 2: Okay. And so to that point, we heard Cassie talk
Speaker 2: about and she said even a facial expression, the wrong
Speaker 2: face could set him off into alien.
Speaker 3: That's absolutely accurate. You saw that, Yes, experienced it many times.
Speaker 2: It was directed at you.
Speaker 3: It was on camera. You can watch making the band
Speaker 3: and see a few moments where just a face created
Speaker 3: a reaction that was abusive.
Speaker 1: Did you always in an argument or back and forth
Speaker 1: like that, get to some point where you felt physically
Speaker 1: threatened after seeing something like that. If everybody wasn't in
Speaker 1: the room and it was just YouTube, maybe it would
Speaker 1: have felt a little different, but it felt physically intimidating. Yes,
Speaker 1: would everybody have that experience who's been around him?
Speaker 3: No, because he wasn't interested in everybody. There were people
Speaker 3: in my band that he didn't really spend much time
Speaker 3: even learning their names.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm curious. I was kind of impressed actually at
Speaker 2: how much you pushed back with him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was not something that anyone in my group did.
Speaker 2: So that was what I was going to ask. Were
Speaker 2: you a I mean, you ended up getting pushed out
Speaker 2: of the band because of him.
Speaker 3: Fired on national television and blamed for the entire demise
Speaker 3: of not only Danity Kane, but the series that was
Speaker 3: on for seven seasons on making the band on the
Speaker 3: biggest network at the time that everyone fell in love
Speaker 3: with and to this day, if you look it up,
Speaker 3: it's aubry O Dat's fault.
Speaker 2: And would you say that that was because you stood
Speaker 2: up to him, You said what you wanted. You actually
Speaker 2: were speaking your truth and he didn't like that.
Speaker 3: I think that as things come out, and when I'm
Speaker 3: not exclusive, that you will be able to read documents
Speaker 3: that suggest exactly what his problem with me was and
Speaker 3: exactly what he wanted me to do or I was
Speaker 3: not needed.
Speaker 1: Cassie's husband has been sitting in the courtroom listening to
Speaker 1: all of this. I couldn't imagine doing so. I think
Speaker 1: he had to walk out at certain points when she
Speaker 1: described a she said he allegedly raped her, that he did.
Speaker 1: Just what's your take on him. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you know him. I've been around him at all. But
Speaker 1: take on her having to do this in front of
Speaker 1: her now husband that she's about to have a child with.
Speaker 3: I think the response of people online is disgusting in
Speaker 3: that regard, saying like, oh, what man would want? He
Speaker 3: must be memes of an embarrassed guy or whatever. God
Speaker 3: it makes me sick seeing people interpret it like that
Speaker 3: because I don't think there's anyone on earth that loved
Speaker 3: her more. She was able to finally get away from
Speaker 3: all of that that she was in because she fell
Speaker 3: in love with her trainer. That did He got her.
Speaker 3: That's who Alex Fine is. He probably showed her a gentle, soft,
Speaker 3: kind love. He probably mirrored back to her, because that's
Speaker 3: what we do as partners, right, That's why you stop
Speaker 3: loving sometimes a partner that you're with contractually in front
Speaker 3: of the world or not, you stop being able to
Speaker 3: mirror back something that you want to see, and then
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you go to work one day
Speaker 3: and somebody's mirroring you and you feel kind of good
Speaker 3: and you kind of like yourself again, and you think
Speaker 3: you're neat and they think you're neat. We are mirrors
Speaker 3: for each other. Personal relationships are simply, in my opinion,
Speaker 3: necessary for sure, because it's the only person that you're
Speaker 3: getting that vulnerable with, potentially physically fully physically giving your
Speaker 3: body to. They're an absolute mirror to you. When you
Speaker 3: do things that are not kind or good or questionable,
Speaker 3: they mirror back a response to you, and you have
Speaker 3: to see yourself. If you don't have any relationships like that,
Speaker 3: you're never learning or growing and you have nothing to observe.
Speaker 2: That's that's actually an excellent point.
Speaker 1: I didn't know people were clowning him online for being
Speaker 1: in the court room. Actually I haven't seen that.
Speaker 3: Don't go on X.
Speaker 2: He's yeah, we try to avoid that actually, at all
Speaker 2: at all costs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so do I. But I think he's proud of her.
Speaker 3: I think he loves her so much. I don't think
Speaker 3: he's getting her. Yeah, he's there yeah. I mean when
Speaker 3: anyone that has anything negative to say about that, I
Speaker 3: think he has heartbroken. I think he probably wants to
Speaker 3: fuck up Puff. He probably is holding himself back from
Speaker 3: jumping over the table, as any man that loves their
Speaker 3: wife should. I think it is tense. The more tense
Speaker 3: interaction that I was very curious of is with Puff
Speaker 3: because it's been spoken about as common knowledge amongst people
Speaker 3: that are in the scene and around that situation that
Speaker 3: it was rough losing Cassie for him, and with Kim
Speaker 3: being gone, this would likely be the only other person
Speaker 3: that had these that maybe he loved and claimed in
Speaker 3: front of the world like he did Kim. There's not
Speaker 3: a ton of women that he's like openly claimed for
Speaker 3: very long periods of time. And I think like he
Speaker 3: probably was sitting in front of somebody that he loved
Speaker 3: most in the lane of girlfriend and you know, beyond
Speaker 3: Kim porter, and then also somebody that he probably hates
Speaker 3: the most in life because she's potentially he sees her
Speaker 3: as responsible for being the demise of his entire existence.
Speaker 3: And I thought the dynamics of also him knowing that
Speaker 3: that could have been the baby that's inside of her
Speaker 3: and that he could have had her child. He had
Speaker 3: children with a bunch of women throughout the relationship that
Speaker 3: he wasn't as open with as he was with Cassie.
Speaker 3: You know, I think that probably had to hit on
Speaker 3: so many levels. I can't even imagine the torture. I
Speaker 3: don't think there are enough drugs that could make me
Speaker 3: go to sleep at night after that. For Cassie, I
Speaker 3: think that she's being able to liberate herself as time continues.
Speaker 2: Potentially, we heard Cassie testify that it was her husband
Speaker 2: Alex who stopped her from all of the thoughts of
Speaker 2: suicide that she had that she even wanted. She said,
Speaker 2: I believe on the stand she wanted to walk out
Speaker 2: in traffic and literally just have a bus or a
Speaker 2: car and everything, And it was her husband who pulled
Speaker 2: her back from that those suicidal thoughts. I'm curious about
Speaker 2: your reaction to that and your experience and other bandmates
Speaker 2: experience the power he had over so many people that
Speaker 2: it actually could contribute to you feeling like you wanted
Speaker 2: to end your life. And was that shocking to you?
Speaker 2: Do you relate at all to.
Speaker 3: How completely related? I've had many times where I've felt
Speaker 3: that way. What it is is not you know what
Speaker 3: the deeds done were, to what level the deeds were
Speaker 3: done to you, because we all have experienced different levels
Speaker 3: with this man, not even just with this man in general.
Speaker 3: Let's just make it a broad conversation. It's the it's
Speaker 3: the disposable part that makes you want to go. It's
Speaker 3: the being so easily disposed of. I'm an artist that
Speaker 3: put my whole life into this. You signed me, I
Speaker 3: worked my ass off, I've got platinum records and I
Speaker 3: didn't see a penny and now I'm driving an uber
Speaker 3: and getting laughed at because someone recognized me on the internet.
Speaker 3: That's somebody's story. That type of pain and knowing that
Speaker 3: you were able to work so hard to achieve levels
Speaker 3: that are almost that most people don't even get to
Speaker 3: experience of accolades, and it all shows should be a
Speaker 3: financial compensation because it's not easy to do the things
Speaker 3: that we were doing, and we were worked to death.
Speaker 3: There's literally like an episode of Making the Band where
Speaker 3: one of the tasks was you're not sleeping for three
Speaker 3: days and it can you handle it? That's how the
Speaker 3: industry is. Let me tell you something. I've till my
Speaker 3: band member, one of my band members who I went
Speaker 3: on to move forward with in a group as a duet.
Speaker 3: Her name is Shannon. Until one day Shannon turned to
Speaker 3: me and said, hey, Obs. Because we'd go throughout the
Speaker 3: day and I'd just be putting out fires, handling shit.
Speaker 3: She would sit and have pleasantries with Starbucks person. She'd
Speaker 3: sit and talk about the guy that was at the
Speaker 3: theater that we were playing at that night, there's a
Speaker 3: brick that Kurt Cobain signed in Wow, the history of this.
Speaker 3: And I'd be like, Shannon, there are eight million problems.
Speaker 3: We've got to do this, this, this, And She's like, listen,
Speaker 3: at some point, we have to have enjoyment. You are
Speaker 3: so still trained under that Diddy hand, and before Diddy,
Speaker 3: through my childhood, I had the same type of hand,
Speaker 3: which is why I think it made it so easy
Speaker 3: for me to have the type of conversation that I
Speaker 3: was having in front of the world with him. I've
Speaker 3: been trained to handle people like that. When I was
Speaker 3: called a bitch or been body shamed or whatever the
Speaker 3: fuck hat was happening at that time, all the time
Speaker 3: I took it as I'd walk out of the room
Speaker 3: and be like, Okay, watch, I'm gonna come back and
Speaker 3: do it ten times better. I never went out of
Speaker 3: the room and was like.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: I did those moments for other things, but not when
Speaker 3: I was challenged. When I was challenged, I accepted the
Speaker 3: challenge like I did in my childhood. I one upped it.
Speaker 3: So those types of personalities happened to fall into this
Speaker 3: type of pattern of grooming very comfortably.
Speaker 1: You mentioned grooming, though, remind us of your ages. What
Speaker 1: age range were you in when you were working with it.
Speaker 3: I have to look back, like two thousand and four,
Speaker 3: I believe we started filming. It wouldn't have very until
Speaker 3: two thousand and five. I know that I wasn't of
Speaker 3: drinking age because I was. I was like reprimanded that
Speaker 3: I was. Everyone was older than me. I was a baby,
Speaker 3: even though people had about their age. So it's maybe
Speaker 3: not it won't look like that, but I was the
Speaker 3: baby of the group. I'm the only child of the
Speaker 3: group as well, so I actually thought they were my
Speaker 3: real sisters in real life. I didn't understand that that
Speaker 3: wasn't how everybody looked at it until much later.
Speaker 1: Was that sixteen seventy What were you two thousand and
Speaker 1: four I'm sorry, I'm not good on the math right now.
Speaker 3: No, no, but don't bring up my old ass. S Well,
Speaker 3: I was young enough to where I was pulled out
Speaker 3: of scenes with liquor.
Speaker 1: Okay, are you do you look back at that time
Speaker 1: now and after we all heard Cansie's testimony, do you
Speaker 1: look back on it and feel in some way you
Speaker 1: were being groomed for what? Don't know, but did you
Speaker 1: feel like there was a manipulation going on? They qualified
Speaker 1: as grooming?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just we discussed it in the last episode.
Speaker 3: It's the walking to get cheesecake. It's the for us
Speaker 3: because that dub band was a little bit different than
Speaker 3: Danity Kine. Danity Kine is a girl group and we're
Speaker 3: selling that's what girl groups are considered to be doing,
Speaker 3: and so for us, it was tiny costumes, big heels.
Speaker 3: I mean, listen. We would do an entire passes of
Speaker 3: our show and Diddy would come up upon pull me
Speaker 3: aside and be like, you have sweat everywhere, And I
Speaker 3: was like, well, we just did a full blown hour
Speaker 3: of like full blown agraphy. We didn't just stand there
Speaker 3: and sing, ever, and we were expected to sing live.
Speaker 3: That's a five part harmony, and the biography goes on
Speaker 3: a different count than the vocals, so it's a NonStop
Speaker 3: thought process, and being very good at doing all of
Speaker 3: those things, not like the girls do nowadays twerking that's
Speaker 3: not technically dancing. Dancing was something different back in my day,
Speaker 3: and we actually had to do very intricate things. So
Speaker 3: with that being said, like it was difficult, and I
Speaker 3: would sweat. I'm somebody that sweats more than probably most
Speaker 3: of the girls in the group. I'm a sweater. I
Speaker 3: always get those pit stains. I probably need botox or
Speaker 3: whatever that you get inside of there, but I would
Speaker 3: get that, and he'd be like, you're a mess, Like
Speaker 3: you need to clean yourself up and this can't happen again.
Speaker 3: Like I was like trying to figure out how to
Speaker 3: do a show and not sweat so I could make
Speaker 3: him happy, because he wasn't He wasn't impressed with the
Speaker 3: way I looked when the show was over, and how
Speaker 3: I started looking halfway through. That's when I got into
Speaker 3: like full blown wigs, because you can't you don't end
Speaker 3: up with damp hair at the end of an hour
Speaker 3: of full blown you know, you know, a full blown
Speaker 3: hour show if you've got a wig on, because it
Speaker 3: doesn't drench like your natural scalp touching your hair.
Speaker 2: Would It's so interesting how I'm sure non shocked and
Speaker 2: unsurprised you were when we heard Cassie talk about just
Speaker 2: him directing these freak offs and how everything it mattered
Speaker 2: how she looked and it didn't matter how she felt.
Speaker 2: She talked about vomiting. Yeah, and because of the drugs
Speaker 2: she had to be on to stay up for as
Speaker 2: many as four days straight.
Speaker 3: Said last time. Kids in his girls, young girls in
Speaker 3: the courtroom learning about how Daddy liked to smack it
Speaker 3: and whip it and roll it around. It's all about
Speaker 3: what is good for his image, his visual his optics.
Speaker 3: Whoever has to be sacrificed along the way, got to
Speaker 3: take the move. It's what he wants and it's what
Speaker 3: his optics require, and even down to potentially his own
Speaker 3: family is operating within that type of in my opinion, coercion.
Speaker 2: My goodness, and so none of that testimony.
Speaker 3: Would you want your daughters in a courtroom if you
Speaker 3: had done freaky things like would you want your daughter
Speaker 3: knowing any would you ask the people around you to
Speaker 3: ask her to please step out, even if she was
Speaker 3: like begging to be there and defend father.
Speaker 1: Being Some of my texts to roboc for the same reason. No,
Speaker 1: you make a point. You do always feel like you
Speaker 1: want to protect your case, certainly from your own bad
Speaker 1: behavior or something that's could be that's not even bad behavior.
Speaker 1: You don't want you kids to know about.
Speaker 3: Your kings, correct, don't you think? Don't you think that's
Speaker 3: telling disturbing?
Speaker 1: You find that very telling of him.
Speaker 3: It's beyond telling. It's showing me and the the alex
Speaker 3: fine move that they made. It's showing me that this
Speaker 3: man isn't hasn't learned yet, still hasn't learned what we're
Speaker 3: all trying to get him to learn.
Speaker 1: Now, you said earlier to Robot he said nothing, and
Speaker 1: you paused. She says, anything you heard from Cassie and
Speaker 1: her testimony surprised you? You said, no, I just want
Speaker 1: to ask about something in particular. Are you not surprised
Speaker 1: when you hear her describe how he raped her? He actually,
Speaker 1: she says he sexually assaulted her.
Speaker 3: Do you remember the word she used? Do you guys
Speaker 3: have any dictation of it.
Speaker 2: I don't remember the word. I just remember this was
Speaker 2: supposed to be and it seemed like it was a.
Speaker 3: Cordial ways and then he can her house and then
Speaker 3: did she describe anything?
Speaker 1: What did she say? On top of her living room?
Speaker 1: She said she cried throughout and he doesn't even think
Speaker 1: he recognized that she was crying. And also said, I
Speaker 1: think that his eyes were black, so he was on drugs. Unrecognizable.
Speaker 3: He went to the black eyes where he's probably on drugs.
Speaker 2: Could you tell when did he was on drugs and
Speaker 2: when he wasn't.
Speaker 3: He has a look that is very specific. When that
Speaker 3: you would you would probably some would describe it as
Speaker 3: like devilish, like you can't see a soul in the eyes.
Speaker 3: There's only three people that I just couldn't find their
Speaker 3: soul in their eyes. And I'm an aquarian, I'm an impath.
Speaker 3: I like to connect with people. I am like a
Speaker 3: very in tune girl that likes to feel people's eyes
Speaker 3: and their presence and their souls. There's only three people
Speaker 3: that I could not find the soul in it's it's
Speaker 3: a scary thing to see. It's a scary thing to see.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine sleeping next to it. I can't imagine
Speaker 3: loving it. I can't imagine wanting to please it. There's
Speaker 3: if there's nothing there to connect with and you can't
Speaker 3: see anything in the eyes, and that's what you and
Speaker 3: that's somebody that you love. Because like I said, it's
Speaker 3: not all bad. It wasn't all bad for Cassie either.
Speaker 3: She clearly isn't going to go on She's not here
Speaker 3: to go on the stand and tell you about all
Speaker 3: the good days. People are pointing out good days as
Speaker 3: if that's disputing anything that she's told us was a
Speaker 3: bad day. This trial isn't about talking about the good days,
Speaker 3: so that's not what anyone is focused on. But at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, whether even some are consensual
Speaker 3: or not, it is very clear that abuse was occurring there.
Speaker 3: It is very clear that that grooming and that coercion
Speaker 3: was occurring. It is very clear that that you know,
Speaker 3: she was being paid as an artist and on payroll,
Speaker 3: but she stopped making albums early on because the sex
Speaker 3: parties became her full time job. So what was the
Speaker 3: payment that was coming when there were no more nine
Speaker 3: albums to release?
Speaker 1: The idea that he was capable of raping someone right,
Speaker 1: you know, again, you've had experience with him and know
Speaker 1: him in certain ways, but that's still not and it's
Speaker 1: an allegation at this point that she's making.
Speaker 3: It's an allegation that she's making. I want to just
Speaker 3: also point out it's an allegation that a whole lot
Speaker 3: of people have made. Do we know the count on
Speaker 3: the civil suits at this.
Speaker 2: Point, we lost count now long ago, so for me.
Speaker 3: That many civil suits. And by the way, I stayed
Speaker 3: super neutral on this topic when I first heard it,
Speaker 3: that was you know, that was something that I can't have.
Speaker 3: I don't have any first hand knowledge obviously on that day,
Speaker 3: and I don't know anyone that was there because there
Speaker 3: was nobody there, So that was never gossip. That was
Speaker 3: never in the streets. That was never So that's just
Speaker 3: between the two. So I stayed neutral on that one
Speaker 3: specific thing when I read all of her case. However,
Speaker 3: when all of the things that came after, I have
Speaker 3: to start to wonder, this is a whole lot of
Speaker 3: people that are willing to make up very extreme detailed
Speaker 3: stories if they're not truths these and then to bring
Speaker 3: lawyers and all of that. Like, yeah, I get that
Speaker 3: you see a settlement, you think maybe you can get one,
Speaker 3: and maybe some people are dumb enough to go that route.
Speaker 3: But this is a very serious thing. These are very
Speaker 3: serious allegations, and there are so many of them. It
Speaker 3: would be hard to assume that that many people are
Speaker 3: full blown lying about every single detail of their lives.
Speaker 3: Like that's kind of hectic to suggest that. So it's
Speaker 3: hard to just be like right in the middle, I'm
Speaker 3: leaning a bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we know that obviously when we're hearing some of
Speaker 4: the cross examination that's coming at Cassie from the defense attorneys.
Speaker 2: You know, she even openly admitted that she even after
Speaker 2: what she called rape, the rape happened, she claimed she
Speaker 2: did have consensual sex with him another time after that.
Speaker 2: And sometimes people people look at that and say, come on,
Speaker 2: And if you're in a relationship, you know, come on,
Speaker 2: what do you say to those people who are now
Speaker 2: questioning the credibility of whether or not she was actually raped,
Speaker 2: given the fact that she was, she was ending the
Speaker 2: relationship with him, but that she then had consensual sex
Speaker 2: with him afterwards.
Speaker 3: It's all a very long weaved narrative of grooming a
Speaker 3: young girl that just would do anything to be have
Speaker 3: that those personal time moments with you, even if it
Speaker 3: involved some people you didn't know it was their secret,
Speaker 3: proposed it to her as like introducing her into his mind.
Speaker 3: In the very beginning, you hear her say I didn't
Speaker 3: want to say know or bring up specific things that
Speaker 3: he was requesting that were really uncomfortable and weird, like
Speaker 3: describing her body to an escort, like the game plan
Speaker 3: of how each freak off work, and that she felt uncomfortable.
Speaker 3: But she never wanted to say it because she didn't
Speaker 3: want to make him feel he was weird, because she
Speaker 3: loved him so much and she didn't want him to
Speaker 3: think like he gave her a personal I almost could
Speaker 3: see the conversation in my head because I just know
Speaker 3: how this works so well. He opened her up and
Speaker 3: to his personal secrets. She got to know the personal
Speaker 3: secrets of Diddy. You feel like all kinds of things,
Speaker 3: like maybe you could help. Some girls are fixers, you know,
Speaker 3: there's all kinds of things that go on in a
Speaker 3: woman's mind when a man has captured your heart. You know,
Speaker 3: it gets a bit hectic. There are ways that we compromise.
Speaker 3: Cassie's been saying it, like I want to come forward
Speaker 3: and admit to all of these things that were wrong
Speaker 3: that weren't okay. That are embarrassing because I want to
Speaker 3: be honest for once, and you know, for at this
Speaker 3: point in my life, and tell the full truth about
Speaker 3: all the things that she was doing in a younger
Speaker 3: age that she now believes was absolutely you know criminal.
Speaker 2: When's the last time you talked to Cassie? And when
Speaker 2: this is all over and you're able to, will you
Speaker 2: reach out to her.
Speaker 3: I don't want to answer the first question. The second
Speaker 3: question is no, I don't. My way of of anything
Speaker 3: that I could ever do for Cassie would just be
Speaker 3: to stand up publicly and defender. I think I was
Speaker 3: the first person to do it for a few days
Speaker 3: of crickets. I asked my band members to chime in.
Speaker 3: So the only thing I could do was just defend.
Speaker 3: And also, like you know, in a lawsuit, like I said,
Speaker 3: you don't talk about the good days. You don't talk
Speaker 3: about the days where you maybe wanted it, or you
Speaker 3: maybe acted like you wanted it in order to make
Speaker 3: them not leave you or go do it with somebody else,
Speaker 3: because you craved there at that moment, in that personal
Speaker 3: time with them so much like of course that I
Speaker 3: understood both sides of I understood both the moments. I
Speaker 3: knew what would be brought against her, And I think
Speaker 3: that people have to be able to not take one
Speaker 3: set of text messages or one of these events and
Speaker 3: turn it into a broad understanding of the overall picture.
Speaker 3: We're hearing one person's story about what it looks like
Speaker 3: to have been somebody that was in his in his
Speaker 3: what is it like right in front of you and
Speaker 3: his visibility in his eye? Somebody that he wanted. There's
Speaker 3: going to it will continue on. There's eight weeks and
Speaker 3: we're on day what four? It's gotten pretty hectic for
Speaker 3: four days. Do they've proven one charge for sure already?
Speaker 1: How have you which one moved?
Speaker 3: The transportation of.
Speaker 2: Constitution?
Speaker 3: Is that a transportation of PROCESSUS traffic, not trafficking? There's
Speaker 3: three there's a charge that it's like transport of sexual workers.
Speaker 3: That charge has been proven. I think I believe sexual
Speaker 3: trafficking has been proven. These text messages are going to
Speaker 3: make it a little more difficult for the jury to understand.
Speaker 3: I don't love eight men. I'm being told by my
Speaker 3: people in the courtroom that these aren't Some of these
Speaker 3: men aren't giving jackhammer and a construction belt man some
Speaker 3: of them are giving their their sensitive So I don't know.
Speaker 3: As a very jaded woman at forty one that's been
Speaker 3: around of a bunch of very disgusting men for a
Speaker 3: very long history in the industry, I don't trust it
Speaker 3: at all. So you one of them is bound to
Speaker 3: fuck up. You think a man in a room, are
Speaker 3: you sidebar because you're a man ay a man in
Speaker 3: a room or deciding something that's very serious to you,
Speaker 3: are you going to trust that?
Speaker 2: I mean, it just takes one. It just takes one
Speaker 2: to hang the joey.
Speaker 3: So would you trust it? No? Thank you?
Speaker 1: But you that increases concern about maybe an acquittal because
Speaker 1: of how many men you think they will be sympathetic
Speaker 1: in some way to him.
Speaker 3: I don't think an acquittal. I think it would be
Speaker 3: hung and I think that one charge. I think he'll
Speaker 3: for sure get one charge. Right now, as of day four,
Speaker 3: we have two months to go. I think one thing
Speaker 3: has absolutely been proven. I think the other has been proven.
Speaker 3: But some of my friends are arguing otherwise. The cross
Speaker 3: is not as crossy as I thought it would be.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm like sad and glad because I don't want
Speaker 3: Cassie to ever be brutalized anymore ever again, But also
Speaker 3: kind of sad that they didn't go a little harder
Speaker 3: like the lawyer with Harvey Weinstein did. Like you, I
Speaker 3: was hoping that they would make the mistake of being
Speaker 3: overly aggressive with her, and it sounds like and it
Speaker 3: sounds like they didn't.
Speaker 1: So you know, I heard someone one reporter were talking
Speaker 1: about this morning described it as almost two friends being
Speaker 1: cordial in conversation, and that was incredible to see.
Speaker 3: I do have smart, it's smart, strategic, it's strategic.
Speaker 1: I do have the charges here we're talking about. So
Speaker 1: it's one racketeering conspiracy, two charges of sex trafficking and
Speaker 1: then the two you were talking about transportation to engage
Speaker 1: in prostitution.
Speaker 3: That's been proven, was the other. Transportation has been proven?
Speaker 3: The sex trafficking, I feel it has, but you got
Speaker 3: to prove force and coercion. Some of those text messages
Speaker 3: are going to make people doubt what they heard on
Speaker 3: day two, which day two was much stronger day one.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 3: It was a slower start for me, and the defense
Speaker 3: had an incredible opening. This Day two picked up for
Speaker 3: the prosecution in my opinion, But yeah, I think that like,
Speaker 3: we're very early on in this, so right now, this
Speaker 3: is this is the framework. This is establishing a character,
Speaker 3: This is establishing the way that people would just do
Speaker 3: anything that he said. That's how encompassing his power and
Speaker 3: presence was like, I don't know, go to Brooklyn and
Speaker 3: get cheesecake, or run around Central Park till you see
Speaker 3: your friends drop.
Speaker 1: Look, I am.
Speaker 3: I can't wait till we have Babs on. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: have her come for you, eat you up. I will.
Speaker 1: But I watched back, and I watched I remember her,
Speaker 1: and I watched every episode of the show, and we're
Speaker 1: all complicit in your point. I watched with I was entertained.
Speaker 3: Was Dave Chappelle made a whole skit of it.
Speaker 1: But I was horrified at times, But for the most part,
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, I did nothing took away from
Speaker 1: Diddy for me? And what Obviously I'm a huge fan.
Speaker 1: That was right in my lane, and I absolutely have
Speaker 1: just been in awe of his and his accomplishments. But
Speaker 1: what do you do when you hear a Diddy song? Now,
Speaker 1: how do you take it?
Speaker 3: I don't listen, but let me ask you. Let me
Speaker 3: ask you this. Okay, name me a Diddy song, And
Speaker 3: hold on, name me a Diddy song where there isn't
Speaker 3: a feature of a big artist that you love.
Speaker 2: Just name one, just a.
Speaker 1: Solo of him. I remember the album, but I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think of one that didn't have I think it
Speaker 1: was right around when he became ditty again he released.
Speaker 3: Something I just hear you babbling? Or did you come
Speaker 3: up with?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I am looking for But to the point, his hands
Speaker 1: were on everything.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: To the point is his hands were on all the
Speaker 3: publishing masters and ownership of all of the people that
Speaker 3: he stepped on to move up. But you still can't
Speaker 3: name me a Diddy song without a very big celebrity feature,
Speaker 3: or come up somebody who ended up being very big.
Speaker 3: But all the songs that we love, all the hits,
Speaker 3: all the things that you would play, are also featuring
Speaker 3: somebody else.
Speaker 1: You don't consider those Diddy songs necessarily the right.
Speaker 3: So is that what a Diddy song would be?
Speaker 2: A did he do?
Speaker 3: You want to tell me? He's his accomplishments and the
Speaker 3: grandeur of all that he's accomplished as an artist. I'm
Speaker 3: going to need to hear you name a song and
Speaker 3: not just if I asked you Beyonce songs, you'd be
Speaker 3: rolling them off your tongue. You're giving him legendary iconic
Speaker 3: status like that, but you can't name a song, artists
Speaker 3: or who built that entire corporation the artist. There were
Speaker 3: the ones in the nineties, and then after that there
Speaker 3: were all of them making the band kids.
Speaker 1: Nothing about that I would argue. And how he's gone
Speaker 1: about and building his success. I'm not going to argue
Speaker 1: that at all. But it sounds like you you're taking
Speaker 1: away or you don't think we should hold him up
Speaker 1: the way we have as a kid. It came from
Speaker 1: the streets and ended up where he was.
Speaker 3: I don't suggest that you shouldn't. Yeah, I don't suggest
Speaker 3: that you shouldn't. I'm not going to tell people how
Speaker 3: to feel about people they like. That's not my concern
Speaker 3: or my business. I'm just wanting to make a point
Speaker 3: as somebody that does potentially feel that way, Please take
Speaker 3: a second to think about just his own name as
Speaker 3: an artist, without anyone else propping it up, without anyone
Speaker 3: else giving credibility or talent to the song, just on
Speaker 3: his own merits. If you can't name a ton of
Speaker 3: songs like we can with everybody else, Jay Z, Beyoncey,
Speaker 3: all the big people, then maybe we should be careful
Speaker 3: about the ways in which we see him in regards
Speaker 3: to you know, this incredible iconic artist, music, mogul, all
Speaker 3: these things. He was a man that knew how to
Speaker 3: choose the right people. And by the right people, I
Speaker 3: mean man, They're sure were a lot of us that
Speaker 3: never saw any payment. He chose people, and he sure
Speaker 3: knew how to choose people that would get into the
Speaker 3: freak offs and all because they loved him. He knew how.
Speaker 3: When I was talking with my bandmate about this entire situation,
Speaker 3: I asked her what you asked me? Did you ever
Speaker 3: fear him enough to where you would have done X,
Speaker 3: Y and Z? And she said no, But she said
Speaker 3: I also think that he knew who he could get
Speaker 3: away with that type of stuff and who he couldn't,
Speaker 3: which is why he didn't even really know who I was,
Speaker 3: because he knew it wouldn't fly with me.
Speaker 1: Did he does? He still have defenders that you say,
Speaker 1: I know, you're so engaged online, so it's maybe some
Speaker 1: stuff I don't see, But are a lot of people
Speaker 1: out there still active in open big fans and defend
Speaker 1: him right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there are people that see him. I mean, God,
Speaker 3: ask everybody at my hotel that recognizes me. I'm staying
Speaker 3: at a hotel that is infamous for being Diddy's hotel,
Speaker 3: and all kinds of things I'm sure went on at
Speaker 3: that hotel, including music videos and campaigns and also maybe
Speaker 3: other things hers, but the entire staff is still working there.
Speaker 3: When I walked in, they were saying, man, you don't
Speaker 3: age and things like that. And I'm looking at these
Speaker 3: old men, like what in the food, the what? And
Speaker 3: They're like, a guy was walking with me, tell me,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I remember this. I remember that. I
Speaker 3: remember when you came through one time. I had the
Speaker 3: biggest crush on you. Blah blah blah every single person
Speaker 3: in that hotel, and they're telling me their opinions about
Speaker 3: all that, and they're saying, man, I miss this person.
Speaker 3: I missed that person. They named a person that I
Speaker 3: know was assaulting people. And I was just sitting here
Speaker 3: listening to him roll through these names in the good
Speaker 3: old days of it, and I was thinking to myself, Man,
Speaker 3: it must be so hard for people they consider their
Speaker 3: memories of him to be these good old days and
Speaker 3: this run that he had in this hole did et
Speaker 3: this choke hold that he had on New York in general.
Speaker 3: I grew up on the West Coast. I'm a POC
Speaker 3: fan baby, so it was I didn't look at him
Speaker 3: like that. But for the if you were talking about PUC,
Speaker 3: I definitely would be in a joke hold. So I
Speaker 3: can understand this is his city. So in that regard,
Speaker 3: I think that it's very hard for people to be
Speaker 3: able to have been so disillusioned by celebrity, to be
Speaker 3: to think that everything that we could potentially be watching
Speaker 3: and looking up to could be as fraudulent as what
Speaker 3: we are seeing now. And by the way it is,
Speaker 3: I've been to like three places where everybody actually was
Speaker 3: who the fuck they say they are? Everybody else is
Speaker 3: on some bullshit. We won't get into that now, but
Speaker 3: if I get my own podcasts, I'm calling all you
Speaker 3: motherfuckers out.
Speaker 2: How just remind everyone how how it went down. How
Speaker 2: he fired you.
Speaker 3: I was fired was we were called in to do
Speaker 3: a final scene h to close off the season, and
Speaker 3: it was just like a check in and a good job.
Speaker 3: We had just gotten off of a big tour, etc.
Speaker 3: And we all got called into this meeting and it
Speaker 3: took a very dark turn and he I don't even
Speaker 3: know how it started, but somehow he started going at
Speaker 3: me and he fired me the words that I've been
Speaker 3: told multiple times, and I rewatched it. Actually, when I came,
Speaker 3: I moved to Bali for a while to heal from
Speaker 3: a lot of the trauma and the things that I
Speaker 3: found myself in the beginning half of my career not
Speaker 3: able to have my voice. Chakras were locked up when
Speaker 3: I got there, I learned because I would want to
Speaker 3: tell my truth, but my truth included conversations where people
Speaker 3: cross paths with me, and those people are lying about
Speaker 3: who they are, and I needed to protect their lies
Speaker 3: because they're not telling anyone the truth about who they are.
Speaker 3: So then I could never give an honest portrayal of
Speaker 3: anything I experienced, because every single person that I have
Speaker 3: connected paths with was doing some funny shit. And so
Speaker 3: for me, I found myself always being roadblocked, never being
Speaker 3: able to fully get out the truth. And I was
Speaker 3: feeling like I was just living in a whole bubble
Speaker 3: of lies, and like we've discussed headlines that can just
Speaker 3: be thrown out there and everyone believes it. When you're
Speaker 3: sitting at work about to do your job, people are
Speaker 3: out here thinking you're drunk and you've got a bar
Speaker 3: in your room. It's unfair. It is offensive to the
Speaker 3: work that we show up and do. And what can
Speaker 3: you do about it? It could be the system that's
Speaker 3: putting those stories out. You don't know. You can't go
Speaker 3: against the system. I've done it a few times, and
Speaker 3: I have a whole lot of strikes through my name
Speaker 3: and a lot of different networks. If you haven't seen
Speaker 3: me on a show that you've always wanted to see
Speaker 3: me on, that's the network. I don't even know how
Speaker 3: mask Singer happened. They wanted a ditty victim so bad
Speaker 3: they were willing to take that blacklist out of my
Speaker 3: name over there.
Speaker 2: So you went back to watch the firing to kind
Speaker 2: of relive it.
Speaker 3: So I actually from Bally, I watched it and I
Speaker 3: just I, like I said, I have shedded the layers
Speaker 3: of the parts of me that were so hurt and
Speaker 3: that knew they would never see justice. And if I
Speaker 3: was going to continue to carry that, I would have
Speaker 3: a chip on my shoulder the size of China. So
Speaker 3: I had to shed and unfortunately, all the things that
Speaker 3: people are now recognizing were the truth. They the parts
Speaker 3: of me that were shed and are long gone, are
Speaker 3: the parts that needed to hear it. It means nothing
Speaker 3: to me now except I encourage people to see that
Speaker 3: I've been telling the truth for so long, to look
Speaker 3: into some of the other people I talk about, Because
Speaker 3: if you believe I'm a truth teller on one thing,
Speaker 3: maybe you should start looking at some of the other
Speaker 3: truths that I've spoken on.
Speaker 1: Well, the truth will keep coming, folks. We are just
Speaker 1: getting started here with Aubury. We will continue to follow
Speaker 1: very closely, like many of you are, what's happening in
Speaker 1: that courtroom. But Aubury, we appreciate, We appreciate getting to
Speaker 1: know you and giving all of us some better perspective
Speaker 1: about a guy we've watched most of our lives and
Speaker 1: about a trial that we're watching right now. Really, you've
Speaker 1: absolutely already been wildly enlightening and we're just getting started.
Speaker 3: Wait till we get to the urination.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good tease.
Speaker 2: That's a hell of a tease.
Speaker 1: Next episode, Urine. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 3: Folks,