WEBVTT - Aubrey O'Day: Cassie's Cross Examination 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:05.000 Amy and TJ presents Aubrey O Day covering the Diddy Trial. 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:11.160 Welcome everyone to Amy and TJ Presents Aubrey O Day. 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:15.080 I'm Amy Robock alongside my partner TJ Holmes, and we 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:20.080 have Aubrey with us to talk about what's going on 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:23.200 with the Sean Diddy Coombs trial. And Aubrey certainly has 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:25.120 perspective like no one else. 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:27.480 Absolutely, But we're going to get into some of the 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.760 details from of course the star witness, Cassie Venturer. But 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.839 can you just give me your initial impression because so 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.680 many of us have heard this testimony and your jaws 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.920 are dropped, But give me your impression of what we've 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.639 heard so far and how she's doing. We'll get into 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:47.440 some details, but just initial impression of how she's done. 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:52.320 Initial impression from what I'm able to read in the 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.720 transcripts and from people that I have giving the information 0:00:55.880 --> 0:01:05.440 in court is it feels very honest. It feels very open, vulnerable, horrific. 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:10.280 Sometimes I hear her discuss things that she did then 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.640 and how now she would never she understands it differently, 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:17.720 and that makes me feel like so happy for her 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.759 that she's come, you know, because I don't know her 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:23.680 as a mom, so like to understand that she made 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.360 that evolution and went to the other side of viewing 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:29.720 all of it made me feel like really proud of her. 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:37.840 It's horrific that it's horrific that she had to go 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:43.679 through go through so much. You know, there was one 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:45.840 part of the testimony that was so telling. It's not 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.240 even anything anyone's really touching on, but there was a 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:53.560 transcript that I read that went something like like, you know, 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:55.360 I don't really or can we talk? I wanted to 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.000 bring something up to you and he's like, okay, yeah, 0:01:58.040 --> 0:01:59.600 you know you don't want to do the freak out now. 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:05.720 You so predictable. That's a very It's a statement that 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:10.959 groomers make if you've ever dated anyone that doesn't really 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.600 love you and is like abusive usually and pushing you 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.840 into things. It doesn't even have to be sexual. It 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.520 could be anything they want you to do. It's like 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.440 almost training a child, right like, oh, you want to 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:24.960 bring up this? You so predictable, like you just like 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.200 the rest of them. And then you get that feeling 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.680 as a woman to be like no, wait, I'm not 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.720 I promise you then talk yourself back into an idea, 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:38.280 same way when she was brutally abused in that hallway, 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.040 him writing her, I'm about to get arrested. The police 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:45.480 are here. They've already testified to the fact that there 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.040 was no arrest and there was no police arresting him. 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:50.320 That was to get her to come back. 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:51.920 That control, it's. 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:59.000 Control, coercion, it's grooming. It's all pieces of many things 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:05.120 that make me really understand how much manipulation was involved 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:10.120 in getting her to activate the emotions that he wanted 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:11.080 her to project. 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.480 Aubrey. So many of us who have been listening to 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:18.120 Cassie's testimony have been shocked. I mean, we had heard 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.440 like just general details about what she might say, but 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:25.760 to actually hear her go into descriptive detail about what 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.680 she says she experienced over a decade. Was there anything 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.120 she said in these last several days of testimony that 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:43.760 surprised you, that shocked you? No, Wow, What was the 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:47.680 hardest thing to hear from her? 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:58.440 That she felt so loved in his company, and she 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:02.240 felt he made her feel unlike anyone else, and so 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.960 she would do these things because it was the only 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.640 time and chance that she got to really spend in 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:15.520 that feeling that was That was a hard listen because 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.640 I think any woman that's ever cared for somebody that 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:25.200 may not have that ability or desire to, has pandered 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:27.840 in one way or another, whether it's a sex party 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:34.440 or bringing themselves down to certain levels that no woman 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:39.320 should have to emotionally saying things, utilizing whatever tool any 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:43.720 woman finds herself having as valuable or has been told 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:47.160 because yet to remember, women see ourselves through the projection 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:49.920 of men. You know, since we're young kids, since we're 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:53.560 young girls, we're kind of groomed into these social ideas 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:55.440 and norms. I mean, should I just turn forty one 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:57.240 and people are saying to me, oh, so you didn't 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.320 want kids, Well, I honestly, I'm just getting to age 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.279 where I'm finally free from a lot of chaos and 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:04.920 could start thinking about that. I realize that that's troubling 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.680 for everybody else because it's geriatric and whatever all the 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:11.000 titles are, But actually, yeah, I do. I've always wanted kids, 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:14.920 but the answer has already decided for me when somebody 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.920 comes to me. There's so many social norms that women 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:22.800 just accept, and in that instance, I just know that 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.279 I know what it feels like to year and after 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.800 somebody that I really loves attention. And there probably were 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:30.960 a lot of ways that I have compromised. No, let 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:34.200 me not say probably. There are many ways that I 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:40.480 have compromised myself. Not in the same ways as Cassie necessarily, 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:43.840 but I don't judge her compromise. A compromise is a compromise. 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.760 When you compromise yourself, you're doing the same damage. It 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:50.480 really doesn't matter in what area, it's all the same. 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:56.480 That knowledge of understanding how we compromise for people's love 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:01.680 is something I believe that will resonate just with everybody. 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:05.440 It certainly had me going through all my relationships like, wow, 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.280 I thought this relationship was something like this, and I've 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.279 always narrated it and believed it to be so. But 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.599 as I start to think about it, there were times 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.960 that I yearned for this person's attention, and there were 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:25.040 there were ways that I was not true to myself 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:30.400 in order to get it. And it's because of all 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.560 kinds of things for me, you know, a bad childhood, 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.520 not ever feeling like anyone would fight for me. I 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.400 don't have a mom and dad or anyone to call, 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:44.600 and because I spent from my young days to forty 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:47.719 one being in this industry, I didn't It's not like 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.240 I made a good friend like a group of girlfriends 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:53.720 while while my friends were doing that in their twenties 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:57.800 and thirties, I was uber famous. So it's not like 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.599 I have this group of friends that I even go to. 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:05.680 So it's it's just a I don't know. That was 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.080 the part of the testimony that really like stood out 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.800 to me as being as really making me recall a 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:13.720 lot of times that I have done that. 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:15.720 I don't know if you saw us both react, We 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:17.680 looked at each other because we were I think we 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.679 both got tears in our eyes reporting on that this week, 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.440 that was the moment that was most chillingest to hear 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.720 all the horror, but for her to say the highlight 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.720 of a freak off was she just enjoys spending time 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:31.520 with him. That was that was tough. 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.080 That jumped out at us too. So when you said that, 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.800 we both said, Wow, we had the exact same react. 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:40.240 And remember what I said to you last time, There's 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:43.880 nobody else that I would want to revisit more than him. 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.480 When he is proud of you and when he gives 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.600 you his attention and thinks that you're great, and if 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.760 you notice. In her testimony, she says, I don't know 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.800 what the first freak off was. I was drugged. It 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.840 was weird. I felt dirty, I felt embarrassed, but then 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.800 he was really proud of me, and so I felt good. 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:08.120 I understand all of those emotions in regards to that man. 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:08.800 Okay. 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:13.000 It's so it's something so many of us can. 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.800 Okay, help us with And how does it play into 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:17.840 the story? We a lot of us didn't know it. 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.760 She was nineteen when they met. He kissed her, she said, 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.800 he testified at a birthday party. She said was unwanted. 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:25.960 At the time. She wasn't comfortable with the idea of 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:29.160 dating him. What do you make of I don't know 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.960 if you knew that story already, But what do you 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:34.679 make of hearing that and how it now played into 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:36.280 I guess the rest of their relationship. 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:44.120 I think it would probably be very You know, I've 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:48.760 dated somebody in a very compromising state and position that 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:51.680 wasn't necessarily fully open to the world, and so I 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.880 kind of had to play along with whatever the narratives were. 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.640 And there's an exhilaration there. The lifestyle that did he 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:06.839 live is so extreme in every way. I think that 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.120 that could have been There could have been like an 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:11.760 excitement there. There could have been a fear. There could 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:17.080 have been like, you know, butterflies in your stomach when 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:23.320 somebody that powerful wants to experience you in that way. 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:26.520 I don't know how she testified to feeling about it. 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:29.600 I think she just was like, WHOA, that happened? Like 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.240 I didn't see that it was bad or good in 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:34.920 the testimony. I'm not sure if I missed something, but 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.720 I think it probably it probably made her feel that, 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.680 like of everybody around, he wanted her, which maybe made 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:44.800 her feel like she was very special. 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:50.680 You've talked about all the people around Diddy who were 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.679 there to make sure he had his every need met. 0:09:55.280 --> 0:10:00.520 When you heard Cassie testify about all the people who 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.719 supplied the drugs, the baby oil, who all had to 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.959 be a part of creating these freakouts, or at least 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.559 the ambiance around them. The lighting had to be correct, 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:12.360 the hotel rooms had to be. 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.800 Very ditty, very scorpio, very visual. 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.800 Were Yes, were you aware? Like I know that you 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.040 said you weren't surprised by your testimony, But did everyone 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:26.640 know that this was all going on, that these freakoffs 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.920 and these sex parties were happening, And apparently there had 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:31.920 to have been so many bottles of these of this 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:34.319 baby oil around that. I mean, that was a big 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.280 headline obviously early on. But you start hearing about just 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:39.880 how much and why he wanted it, and was that 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:41.080 all common knowledge? 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:46.160 So I never witnessed a big room of baby oil 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:51.520 in my time there, but on set we were to 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:55.720 be lathered and shining. You know, they always used either 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.360 baby oil later on down the line. All of oil 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:02.600 spray can make you like shine, shimmer To me, I 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:04.600 still use it when I do photo shoots because it 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:06.960 was a great tool to learn during my time in 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.320 the beginning making music videos. And when you shine, it 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.800 looks better on camera to me. All of that plays 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.800 into these visual aesthetics that were pleasing enough for him 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:20.079 to be sitting in the corner and jacking off to it. 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.400 You know, I haven't heard somebody put you made a 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:25.959 good point. I hadn't thought about in all these videos. 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.280 It wasn't just think it's a part. Yes, it's a 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.280 part of sex, and maybe they're slipping and slid and 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.080 having a good time. Do you think but you're saying 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:38.280 it'sduction value to it that I hadn't. 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:42.000 Thought about it, that he was almost creating his own pornow. 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:46.520 Yes, he also made music videos all the time. I mean, 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.800 this is a man that lived and breathed in the 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:56.760 creative space and produced albums and records and music videos 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:58.440 and all of the above. I mean he would come 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:00.319 on set whether we had a full blown direc and 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:01.920 everything else, and when he got on set, if he 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.560 wanted everything a whole different way, that's what had to happen. 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.120 Okay. And so to that point, we heard Cassie talk 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.559 about and she said even a facial expression, the wrong 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.600 face could set him off into alien. 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:18.559 That's absolutely accurate. You saw that, Yes, experienced it many times. 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:19.400 It was directed at you. 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:21.720 It was on camera. You can watch making the band 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.080 and see a few moments where just a face created 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:29.400 a reaction that was abusive. 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:33.199 Did you always in an argument or back and forth 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:37.800 like that, get to some point where you felt physically 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.360 threatened after seeing something like that. If everybody wasn't in 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.320 the room and it was just YouTube, maybe it would 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:47.040 have felt a little different, but it felt physically intimidating. Yes, 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.720 would everybody have that experience who's been around him? 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.800 No, because he wasn't interested in everybody. There were people 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:00.880 in my band that he didn't really spend much time 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:02.280 even learning their names. 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:07.839 Sometimes I'm curious. I was kind of impressed actually at 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:09.840 how much you pushed back with him. 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.320 Yeah, that was not something that anyone in my group did. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.800 So that was what I was going to ask. Were 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.600 you a I mean, you ended up getting pushed out 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:19.040 of the band because of him. 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.320 Fired on national television and blamed for the entire demise 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.640 of not only Danity Kane, but the series that was 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.160 on for seven seasons on making the band on the 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.040 biggest network at the time that everyone fell in love 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.319 with and to this day, if you look it up, 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:35.160 it's aubry O Dat's fault. 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.760 And would you say that that was because you stood 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.920 up to him, You said what you wanted. You actually 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.480 were speaking your truth and he didn't like that. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.560 I think that as things come out, and when I'm 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:51.559 not exclusive, that you will be able to read documents 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.800 that suggest exactly what his problem with me was and 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.720 exactly what he wanted me to do or I was 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:02.320 not needed. 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.560 Cassie's husband has been sitting in the courtroom listening to 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.000 all of this. I couldn't imagine doing so. I think 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.240 he had to walk out at certain points when she 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:26.800 described a she said he allegedly raped her, that he did. 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.480 Just what's your take on him. I don't know if 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.000 you know him. I've been around him at all. But 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.360 take on her having to do this in front of 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:36.560 her now husband that she's about to have a child with. 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:42.280 I think the response of people online is disgusting in 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.760 that regard, saying like, oh, what man would want? He 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:50.360 must be memes of an embarrassed guy or whatever. God 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.600 it makes me sick seeing people interpret it like that 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.040 because I don't think there's anyone on earth that loved 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.480 her more. She was able to finally get away from 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.120 all of that that she was in because she fell 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.040 in love with her trainer. That did He got her. 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:08.840 That's who Alex Fine is. He probably showed her a gentle, soft, 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.320 kind love. He probably mirrored back to her, because that's 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:15.280 what we do as partners, right, That's why you stop 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.880 loving sometimes a partner that you're with contractually in front 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.520 of the world or not, you stop being able to 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.560 mirror back something that you want to see, and then 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:26.240 all of a sudden, you go to work one day 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.080 and somebody's mirroring you and you feel kind of good 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:31.800 and you kind of like yourself again, and you think 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.680 you're neat and they think you're neat. We are mirrors 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.480 for each other. Personal relationships are simply, in my opinion, 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:43.000 necessary for sure, because it's the only person that you're 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:47.080 getting that vulnerable with, potentially physically fully physically giving your 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.840 body to. They're an absolute mirror to you. When you 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.200 do things that are not kind or good or questionable, 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.520 they mirror back a response to you, and you have 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:00.080 to see yourself. If you don't have any relationships like that, 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.800 you're never learning or growing and you have nothing to observe. 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.320 That's that's actually an excellent point. 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.800 I didn't know people were clowning him online for being 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:10.360 in the court room. Actually I haven't seen that. 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:12.240 Don't go on X. 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.200 He's yeah, we try to avoid that actually, at all 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:16.000 at all costs. 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.080 Yeah, so do I. But I think he's proud of her. 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.480 I think he loves her so much. I don't think 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.880 he's getting her. Yeah, he's there yeah. I mean when 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:25.280 anyone that has anything negative to say about that, I 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.920 think he has heartbroken. I think he probably wants to 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.440 fuck up Puff. He probably is holding himself back from 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.320 jumping over the table, as any man that loves their 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.880 wife should. I think it is tense. The more tense 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.840 interaction that I was very curious of is with Puff 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:48.000 because it's been spoken about as common knowledge amongst people 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:52.640 that are in the scene and around that situation that 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:59.240 it was rough losing Cassie for him, and with Kim 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.520 being gone, this would likely be the only other person 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:07.439 that had these that maybe he loved and claimed in 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.359 front of the world like he did Kim. There's not 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.080 a ton of women that he's like openly claimed for 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:16.000 very long periods of time. And I think like he 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:19.960 probably was sitting in front of somebody that he loved 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:25.679 most in the lane of girlfriend and you know, beyond 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:30.080 Kim porter, and then also somebody that he probably hates 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.560 the most in life because she's potentially he sees her 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:38.680 as responsible for being the demise of his entire existence. 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:43.800 And I thought the dynamics of also him knowing that 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.200 that could have been the baby that's inside of her 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.240 and that he could have had her child. He had 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:53.679 children with a bunch of women throughout the relationship that 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.480 he wasn't as open with as he was with Cassie. 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.360 You know, I think that probably had to hit on 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.040 so many levels. I can't even imagine the torture. I 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.359 don't think there are enough drugs that could make me 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.159 go to sleep at night after that. For Cassie, I 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:14.200 think that she's being able to liberate herself as time continues. 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:19.160 Potentially, we heard Cassie testify that it was her husband 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:23.119 Alex who stopped her from all of the thoughts of 0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.400 suicide that she had that she even wanted. She said, 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.399 I believe on the stand she wanted to walk out 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.560 in traffic and literally just have a bus or a 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.000 car and everything, And it was her husband who pulled 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.920 her back from that those suicidal thoughts. I'm curious about 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:42.280 your reaction to that and your experience and other bandmates 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:48.040 experience the power he had over so many people that 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.240 it actually could contribute to you feeling like you wanted 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.720 to end your life. And was that shocking to you? 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:55.360 Do you relate at all to. 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:59.000 How completely related? I've had many times where I've felt 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:05.400 that way. What it is is not you know what 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.880 the deeds done were, to what level the deeds were 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.280 done to you, because we all have experienced different levels 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.560 with this man, not even just with this man in general. 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:21.160 Let's just make it a broad conversation. It's the it's 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:27.000 the disposable part that makes you want to go. It's 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:32.560 the being so easily disposed of. I'm an artist that 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.520 put my whole life into this. You signed me, I 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:40.600 worked my ass off, I've got platinum records and I 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.359 didn't see a penny and now I'm driving an uber 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.680 and getting laughed at because someone recognized me on the internet. 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:52.800 That's somebody's story. That type of pain and knowing that 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:57.000 you were able to work so hard to achieve levels 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:59.399 that are almost that most people don't even get to 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:03.800 experience of accolades, and it all shows should be a 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:06.840 financial compensation because it's not easy to do the things 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:09.639 that we were doing, and we were worked to death. 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.320 There's literally like an episode of Making the Band where 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:15.800 one of the tasks was you're not sleeping for three 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.000 days and it can you handle it? That's how the 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:22.480 industry is. Let me tell you something. I've till my 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:24.879 band member, one of my band members who I went 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.399 on to move forward with in a group as a duet. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:31.280 Her name is Shannon. Until one day Shannon turned to 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.680 me and said, hey, Obs. Because we'd go throughout the 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:36.680 day and I'd just be putting out fires, handling shit. 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:40.320 She would sit and have pleasantries with Starbucks person. She'd 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.080 sit and talk about the guy that was at the 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.520 theater that we were playing at that night, there's a 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:48.439 brick that Kurt Cobain signed in Wow, the history of this. 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.639 And I'd be like, Shannon, there are eight million problems. 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:52.879 We've got to do this, this, this, And She's like, listen, 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:58.200 at some point, we have to have enjoyment. You are 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:01.840 so still trained under that Diddy hand, and before Diddy, 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:04.280 through my childhood, I had the same type of hand, 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.040 which is why I think it made it so easy 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:10.040 for me to have the type of conversation that I 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.439 was having in front of the world with him. I've 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:15.600 been trained to handle people like that. When I was 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:19.359 called a bitch or been body shamed or whatever the 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:21.440 fuck hat was happening at that time, all the time 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:23.720 I took it as I'd walk out of the room 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.560 and be like, Okay, watch, I'm gonna come back and 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.520 do it ten times better. I never went out of 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:31.280 the room and was like. 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:33.040 No. 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:36.720 I did those moments for other things, but not when 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:39.399 I was challenged. When I was challenged, I accepted the 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.920 challenge like I did in my childhood. I one upped it. 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:46.439 So those types of personalities happened to fall into this 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.639 type of pattern of grooming very comfortably. 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.880 You mentioned grooming, though, remind us of your ages. What 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:55.840 age range were you in when you were working with it. 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:57.800 I have to look back, like two thousand and four, 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:00.280 I believe we started filming. It wouldn't have very until 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:02.320 two thousand and five. I know that I wasn't of 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:05.760 drinking age because I was. I was like reprimanded that 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:07.560 I was. Everyone was older than me. I was a baby, 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:09.960 even though people had about their age. So it's maybe 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:11.600 not it won't look like that, but I was the 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:13.639 baby of the group. I'm the only child of the 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:15.760 group as well, so I actually thought they were my 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.560 real sisters in real life. I didn't understand that that 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:20.760 wasn't how everybody looked at it until much later. 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:23.280 Was that sixteen seventy What were you two thousand and 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:25.040 four I'm sorry, I'm not good on the math right now. 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.040 No, no, but don't bring up my old ass. S Well, 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:30.080 I was young enough to where I was pulled out 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:30.879 of scenes with liquor. 0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:33.720 Okay, are you do you look back at that time 0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:36.919 now and after we all heard Cansie's testimony, do you 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:39.479 look back on it and feel in some way you 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:43.199 were being groomed for what? Don't know, but did you 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:45.520 feel like there was a manipulation going on? They qualified 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:46.000 as grooming? 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:48.639 Yeah, we just we discussed it in the last episode. 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:52.720 It's the walking to get cheesecake. It's the for us 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:55.560