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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from my Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Pay there and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio,

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Speaker 1: and I love all things tech. And so last week

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Speaker 1: we were planning on running a classic episode of about

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Speaker 1: the Max Headroom Incident, a famous incident in which a

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Speaker 1: person was able to overpower TV broadcast signals and insert

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Speaker 1: a pirate signal into a television channel. And UH, then

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Speaker 1: like it turned out that we had a bunch of

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Speaker 1: other stuff that needed to be published last week, so

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Speaker 1: it ended up going up briefly and then coming back down.

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Speaker 1: But now we're putting it up for real Z's and

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Speaker 1: we're doing it today on Wednesday, because the episode I'm

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Speaker 1: working on UH is taking a little more time than

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Speaker 1: I had anticipated because I have to pull a lot

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Speaker 1: of information from a lot of different sources. But I

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Speaker 1: never want to leave you without an episode, so we're

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Speaker 1: moving up the classic episode for Friday to today Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: This all makes sense somewhere, maybe not right now, but

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Speaker 1: I promise somewhere down the line it does. So right now,

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Speaker 1: let's go back and listen to this classic episode about

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Speaker 1: the Max headroom incident. Well, the nice thing is that, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I like to let my guests kind of

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Speaker 1: pick a topic if they if they prefer, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if they don't, If they want me to pick one,

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to. But I gave you that that option,

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Speaker 1: and you came back with one of my favorite stories period,

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Speaker 1: not just in tech just it's just one of those cool,

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Speaker 1: weird things that have happened. And I do not want

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Speaker 1: to steal thunder. All I wanna ask you is, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: if you were in Chicago on November twenty, nineteen seven

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Speaker 1: and you were watching h w g N at nine

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Speaker 1: pm because you want to check out the news and

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Speaker 1: it's coming up on the sports, which I know you're

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Speaker 1: a fan of the sports, what happened? Well, that could

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Speaker 1: have happened because I would have been sixteen at the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you and I are in this age wheelhouse. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: we actually were alive at this time, and we were

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Speaker 1: we would have been aware of at least the entity

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Speaker 1: that appeared instead of the sports scores. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: something weird happened at that moment. There was an interruption

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Speaker 1: in normal service, Yeah, what they call a broadcast intrusion,

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Speaker 1: and Uh, like all classic broadcast intrusions, it started with

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Speaker 1: a little grainy, you know, static going on, and they're

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Speaker 1: always a little unsettling when you watch them, even if

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Speaker 1: they're goofy. Yeah, this is something kind of creepy about it.

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Speaker 1: You know, what's out of place, and something that, especially

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Speaker 1: when it's something as ritualistic, is the news. You know

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Speaker 1: that follows a very specific pattern, and when something goes

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Speaker 1: outside that pattern, you know, that upsets our little world

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Speaker 1: balance for a moment. So in this case, the there was,

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Speaker 1: like you said, there was this this disturbance in the force,

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Speaker 1: and a new picture popped up and replaced the sportscaster,

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Speaker 1: and it was a guy in a disturbing rubber mass

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Speaker 1: and that mask was of a specific eighties icon, which

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people don't even know who

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Speaker 1: this is anymore, but Max Headroom. Yeah, if if you're

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Speaker 1: a child of the eighties, Max max hedrum loomed large

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Speaker 1: for a while, and I know when this intrusion came out,

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Speaker 1: this broadcast intrusion, it seemed like about half the people

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Speaker 1: even knew who he was trying to imitate, and then

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Speaker 1: the other half just had no idea. They thought it

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Speaker 1: was just some weirdo with the mask. Well, and part

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Speaker 1: of that was because, uh, the quality of the video

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Speaker 1: was not exactly super high quality. But on top of that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a niche thing, and he was Max

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Speaker 1: Hedroom was used as sort of a spokes thing, I guess,

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Speaker 1: a spokesman for a new coke Sure that that great

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Speaker 1: move by the Coca Cola company. Yeah, oh man, I

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Speaker 1: remember that well, I remember it with Paine. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: living living in Atlanta, the whole Coca Cola New Coke

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Speaker 1: thing was it definitely strikes close to home. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: he um. He was a spokesman for that as well

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Speaker 1: as a kind of a fantasy character who appeared on

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Speaker 1: lots of other stuff. But generally speaking, if you don't

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Speaker 1: know who Max Hedroom is first, just go ahead and

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Speaker 1: do an image search because it'll pop right up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it's a a character that was supposed to look

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Speaker 1: like a digital character, right. It was supposed to like

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Speaker 1: a computer generated image, and it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: guy with a long face and weird, kind of ridged hair.

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Speaker 1: He had always had a dynamic c g I background

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Speaker 1: behind him that looked like kind of just like Neon

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Speaker 1: stripes that were constantly twisting and turning in different ways,

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Speaker 1: and he would stutter, yeah, the digital stutter occasionally, and

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Speaker 1: uh would be very kind of snarky and sarcastic, and

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Speaker 1: ultimately got a television series as well, as you know,

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Speaker 1: two couple different television series, one of them which was

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Speaker 1: like a talk show, and one of which was more

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Speaker 1: of a like an actual fictional story like with an arc. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that one was pretty good. Actually, the original British show,

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Speaker 1: even though it was a lot of American actors, was

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Speaker 1: was pretty cool and definitely ahead of its time as

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Speaker 1: far as you know. The whole idea was that this

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Speaker 1: uh roving reporter was I think Matt Frewer played him

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Speaker 1: as a real dude and as Max Headroom, but he

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Speaker 1: was digitally replaced with this character Max Headroom, and at

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Speaker 1: the time it just seemed really odd. But now when

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Speaker 1: you look back at it and watch it, it's like, man,

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Speaker 1: this show was kind of ahead of this. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was really imprescient. Yeah it was. It also revealed where

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Speaker 1: the name came from, where Matt Frewer's character, as I recall,

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Speaker 1: is waylaid and the last thing he sees before he

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Speaker 1: loses consciousness is a sign on a on a a

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Speaker 1: wall that tells what the Max Headroom for that wall

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Speaker 1: is pretty clad became the character's name. Yeah. So the

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Speaker 1: person who appeared on this video was wearing a MAX

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Speaker 1: Headroom mask and had this corrugated metal background sort of

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Speaker 1: emulated the digital look, wore the suit that Max Headroom

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Speaker 1: more like just a dark suit and tie, and um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this thing was the metal background. It looked like like

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Speaker 1: a garage door. It was just sort of spinning in

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Speaker 1: the background. Yeah, it was. It was on some sort

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Speaker 1: of gimbal or something. That's what I figured. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: you can tell it's swinging back and forth, so predictably

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Speaker 1: it can't be held by somebody. You had to be

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Speaker 1: on some sort of pivot or something, and but it's

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Speaker 1: moving backward and forward. So it kind of mimics that

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Speaker 1: that digital line twisting in the background. And except for

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Speaker 1: one part, there's a part where there's a clear cut

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Speaker 1: in the video. The video itself was about or at

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Speaker 1: least what we've seen is about a minute and twenty

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Speaker 1: two seconds. Yeah. Well, actually I don't think we differentiated.

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Speaker 1: There were two videos, two intrusions. The first one was

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Speaker 1: short and had no audio and was on w g N,

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Speaker 1: and then about two hours later they hijacked the PPS

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Speaker 1: affiliate and that's where the classic minute and a half,

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Speaker 1: nearly minute and a half with audio, really strange audio

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Speaker 1: comes through. That's right, because that first one, like you said,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you pointed that out, it was silent. It

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Speaker 1: was the images from the and the image and the

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Speaker 1: audio from w g N was cut, but there was

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Speaker 1: no audio coming in other than that. I think there's

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Speaker 1: like a buzzing noise that came in through the first intrusion,

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Speaker 1: and you saw this this figure just sitting there and

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Speaker 1: kind of rocking back and forth like left and right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is also a disconcerting Yeah, definitely like you felt

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Speaker 1: like something is really wrong at that moment. And when

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Speaker 1: it came back, the sportscaster said, you might be wondering

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Speaker 1: what just happened. I know, I am, uh something along

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Speaker 1: those lines. But yes, the second one, you had the

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Speaker 1: audio and it played for the what we what appeared

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Speaker 1: to be the length of the video. The first section

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Speaker 1: had uh, the guy just saying odd things and they

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Speaker 1: were all very Chicago specific well, and and sort of

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Speaker 1: slamming w g N because he'd slammed the Chuck swart

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Speaker 1: Sky Yeah as a freaking liberal. Yeah, he's a sportscaster

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Speaker 1: for w g N. Yeah. And uh he also talked

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Speaker 1: about the Greatest World Newspaper Nerds something like that. But

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Speaker 1: w g N stands for World's Greatest Newspaper. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: it turned out that that little know, the great the

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Speaker 1: great World Newspaper Nerds or whatever however he worded it,

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Speaker 1: that was a reference back to w g N. So

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Speaker 1: it's very clearly intended for w g N. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: the first attack wasn't as effective as as they had

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Speaker 1: hoped because, uh, like I said, there was no audio.

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Speaker 1: And also the folks at w g N, once they

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Speaker 1: figured out something was going on, very quickly changed the

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Speaker 1: frequency transmitters. So they said, well, just hit PBS, I guess. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is interesting. We'll talk more about how that kind

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Speaker 1: of helps us know a little more about the attackers.

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Speaker 1: Because here's the other thing. To this day, there there's

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Speaker 1: no the public has no idea who did this. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that's why this story has lingered. And it's

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Speaker 1: so cool is because anytime you have an unsolved mystery,

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Speaker 1: even if it's uh just sort of an odd broadcast

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Speaker 1: intrusion like this, people are going to be obsessed with it, like, um,

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Speaker 1: we've a lot of the information from that I did

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Speaker 1: research on. Came from a motherboard kind of the mother

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Speaker 1: of all articles, had some great research, Yeah, Chris Middle

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Speaker 1: that's yeah. The article, if you want to look for it,

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Speaker 1: is the Mystery of the Creepiest Television Hack. And I

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Speaker 1: agree this article is fantastic. It really lays out not

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Speaker 1: just the incident, but also other things that had happened

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Speaker 1: beforehand that kind of laid the groundwork for this, as

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Speaker 1: well as just a discussion, although a brief one, about

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Speaker 1: the hacker culture that existed at that time and how

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Speaker 1: that kind of lends itself to people who maybe are

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Speaker 1: cleverer than is good for them or could be very

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Speaker 1: nice way to say, yeah, because as it turns out,

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Speaker 1: the f c C here in the United States does

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Speaker 1: not take kindly to folks intruding upon established airways. No,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a big no no, especially with bare butts,

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Speaker 1: which I think you said. Once the camera cuts, we

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Speaker 1: didn't continue there. That's when it got really weird because

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Speaker 1: there's a camera cut and then you see the mask

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Speaker 1: is off, but the guy has his head out of

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Speaker 1: frame and it's just sort of holding the mask. Yeah

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Speaker 1: he is, pants are down showing his his bear Fannie,

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Speaker 1: and then yeah from profile and then a lady on

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Speaker 1: the right. Uh, and it looks like some sort of

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Speaker 1: Old West like Antiochlely type garb. Yeah, spanks him with

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Speaker 1: the fly swatter on his butt, although spanks is really

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Speaker 1: being generous. She's very slowly and lightly tapping him on

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Speaker 1: the bottom with the flyswater, so to the point where

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Speaker 1: you're you're thinking, like, I guess that's supposed to represent spanking. Uh,

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Speaker 1: doesn't look like any spanking I ever received as a kid.

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Speaker 1: I got you. Anyway, That's pretty much where the video

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Speaker 1: cut off, and then it went right back into Doctor Who,

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Speaker 1: and which is really funny to see the transition. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he died of an electric shock. Yeah, you've got to

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Speaker 1: watch the whole incident on YouTube if you haven't already.

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Speaker 1: And in case you're curious that episode, it's we're talking

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Speaker 1: classic Doctor Who. Obviously back in seven, this is not

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Speaker 1: the reboot. It was the Horror of fang Rock. So

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Speaker 1: if that's your favorite episode, I'm sorry that was interrupted

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Speaker 1: back in nine seven. So yeah, and like we said,

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Speaker 1: the the audio really showed that that the public television

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Speaker 1: station wasn't the intended target. It was. It was a

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Speaker 1: target of opportunity after the first attempt failed. And uh,

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk more about the technology behind that and

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Speaker 1: why they had to switch from one to the other. Um,

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Speaker 1: it turns out it was largely a practical issue, at

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Speaker 1: least as far as I can determine. And it was.

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Speaker 1: There were also references within the little weird diet tribe.

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Speaker 1: The guy made to Coca Cola because he said catch

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Speaker 1: the waves and he had a new coat can that

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Speaker 1: he threw down on the ground. Yeah, And also a

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Speaker 1: reference to the cult cartoon Clutch Cargo. Yeah, he hummed

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Speaker 1: the theme Clutch Cargo. If you've ever seen the movie

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Speaker 1: Pulp Fiction, Um, the scene with young Bruce Willis back

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies, I guess with Christopher Walkin as

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Speaker 1: his guardian, he's watching Clutch Cargo on TV. There that

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Speaker 1: with the mouth's cut out. O'Brien has also used that

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Speaker 1: same comedic effect using the live action in order because

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Speaker 1: what what the whole point was was it was an

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Speaker 1: idea of of reducing the cost of animation big time

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Speaker 1: because there was no animation. You had to picture, yeah,

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Speaker 1: still picture, and then you would superimpose live actors mouths

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Speaker 1: on top of it. And if that sounds creepy and

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Speaker 1: disturbing to you, you you're on the right track. It

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Speaker 1: was not the only cartoon to do this. There were

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Speaker 1: a few others. Um, thank you Cambria Productions for and

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, so he hummed like the whole Clutch Cargo

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Speaker 1: theme and made references to actual episodes of Clutch Cargo.

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Speaker 1: Uh so it was certainly someone with an odd sense

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Speaker 1: of humor who did this. Now, there was no other message, right,

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Speaker 1: there was no. It wasn't like a political thing. It

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Speaker 1: was very stream of consciousness, kind of weird. He holds

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Speaker 1: up I guess what we can cleanly describe as a

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Speaker 1: marital aid. Yes, at one point, and throws that on

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Speaker 1: the ground and um, it's just once the fly swatting

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Speaker 1: comes in, it's just obvious that they're kind of free forming.

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Speaker 1: Although it was not live, which is important to know.

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Speaker 1: This is at some video tape that they made. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it was because I mean, in order to do

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Speaker 1: a live intrusion would require essentially a studio and you'd

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Speaker 1: have to have some sort of link to a transmitter

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Speaker 1: that also had line of sight to the same antenna

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Speaker 1: as whatever target you were you're aiming at, So that

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Speaker 1: would have been an astoundingly complicated. This is definitely a

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Speaker 1: little easier to pull off. So you know, now that

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Speaker 1: we know that this, they've they've never been found. They're

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Speaker 1: likely never to be found. I mean, it's always possible

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Speaker 1: that someone could come forward and say, all right, well

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Speaker 1: here's how it actually happened. I'm the guy who did this.

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Speaker 1: Would I'm surprised that hasn't happened by now because the

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Speaker 1: statute of limitations is up for Yeah, it's way up,

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Speaker 1: so you can't get in trouble, and it's um I

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Speaker 1: think they would unless they just think it's better left

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Speaker 1: as a mystery. They would live in like especially nowadays

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Speaker 1: with the Internet like it is, it would blow up,

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Speaker 1: you know, it would be right. It could possibly be

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Speaker 1: the fact that I mean, you know, of course we're

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Speaker 1: just projecting here, but it could possibly be that they

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Speaker 1: are no longer terribly proud of what they did, and

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Speaker 1: or that they've moved on in their lives. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: a significant amount of time since then, and they might

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Speaker 1: have thought you know, I'm not going to brag about

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Speaker 1: something I did when I was younger and dumber, especially

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Speaker 1: now that I'm the CEO of ABC, right that that

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Speaker 1: might end up. By the way, we do not actually

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Speaker 1: mean that the CEO of ABC or Didney Disney affiliates

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Speaker 1: are involved. But the other interesting thing is that this

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Speaker 1: was not the first time that um I A an

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Speaker 1: intrusion had happened in in broadcast history. The first one,

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Speaker 1: if you want to go back, actually didn't happen in

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Speaker 1: the United States, happened back in UH the UK in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies seven, and that was when a hoaxer interrupted

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Speaker 1: a Southern television broadcast by UH inserting audio. It didn't

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Speaker 1: change the video, So this is kind of the opposite

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Speaker 1: of what had happened the first time with the Max

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Speaker 1: Headroom insteat. But it was an audio stream that came

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Speaker 1: in and carried a message from the alien villa on UH.

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Speaker 1: And this is in the like I said, in the UK,

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Speaker 1: so obviously the alien had an English accent. I guess

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Speaker 1: that's only you know, fair like, if you're going to

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Speaker 1: interrupt someone's program, you want to make sure you're speaking

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Speaker 1: in the dialect, right, Yeah, suddenly they spoke like, like like

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Speaker 1: with a French accent. I mean that would just be

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Speaker 1: but anyway, so it was a message that essentially said

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Speaker 1: that humans should prepare themselves for the worst, because you know,

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Speaker 1: destruction is a common Yeah, that's great. That's what a

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Speaker 1: broadcast intrusion should be, right, some creepy warning, not just

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Speaker 1: a random series of images that disturb you for things

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Speaker 1: that you can't quite put your finger on, although that

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Speaker 1: is more disturbing. Almost. Yeah, then six we get the

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Speaker 1: first one in the United States. Uh, and this was

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Speaker 1: an inside job deal. This was happened on April at

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Speaker 1: twelve thirty two am, and it involved the East Coast

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Speaker 1: feed of HBO. And uh, what happened was the HBO

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Speaker 1: was showing a movie called The Falcon and the Snowman Classic.

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Speaker 1: You know, it certainly could not be helped by approximately

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Speaker 1: four minutes of footage missing because they've been replaced by

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Speaker 1: a series of colored bars that say good evening, HBO

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Speaker 1: from Captain Midnight twelve a month no way showtime movie

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Speaker 1: channel Beware. Yeah, that had a clear motive. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: and and actually ironically, the um the guy was caught.

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Speaker 1: His name was John R. McDougall, and he was an

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Speaker 1: employee of Central Florida Teleport and he used what do

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Speaker 1: you use? He the was it the text that he used?

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Speaker 1: He yeah, so the text generators that the companies used

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Speaker 1: in order to put an overlay on top of a screen.

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Speaker 1: So like like the actual words that were being used there, Well,

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Speaker 1: they're very particular, and by measuring things like the height

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Speaker 1: of the the font, the how far uh the middle

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Speaker 1: bar of an e is according to the other side,

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Speaker 1: how close together those words are, investigators were able to

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Speaker 1: narrow it down to a specific machine. Yeah, it's pretty there. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is like incredible forensics, right. It's sort of like

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Speaker 1: if someone gets hold of a typewritten sheet of paper

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Speaker 1: and is able to determine the model of typewriter that

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Speaker 1: was used to actually make this. But in this case

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Speaker 1: it got even more specific because these machines aren't everywhere,

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Speaker 1: and that's what led them to track down McDougall, who, uh,

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Speaker 1: who have just decided that the recent hike in prices

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Speaker 1: for a monthly subscription to HBO were unconscionable and he

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Speaker 1: had to make it known. So, yeah, he had a

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Speaker 1: side job selling satellite dish service yeah, so he thought

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Speaker 1: that would nick his business some. And so he eventually

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Speaker 1: was caught and pled guilty, paid a five thousand dollar fine,

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Speaker 1: and served just one year probation. And it was that

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Speaker 1: incident that led I believe, Congress to make it a

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Speaker 1: federal violation to abroad. Yeah, it was a felony all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden. Yeah, because they suddenly said, wait, now

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Speaker 1: that people can actually do this. Now great, this was someone,

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Speaker 1: like we said, an inside job. They had access to,

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Speaker 1: uh a satellite. What what he actually did was he

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Speaker 1: pointed the satellite of Central Florida Teleport at the HBO satellite. Chuck,

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Speaker 1: You and I we wouldn't even know where the heck

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Speaker 1: that satellite is. Yeah, so even if we had the

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Speaker 1: equipment and everything else, we'd just beat Well, the sky

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Speaker 1: is a lot bigger than I had taken into account,

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Speaker 1: and uh you know, of course we'd have to be

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Speaker 1: someplace where we could actually get a good clear view

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Speaker 1: of the sky because if they're building in the way

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Speaker 1: or something. But uh yeah, so he he was a

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Speaker 1: good example of that. And then September n so this

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Speaker 1: is just before the the incident with the Max Headgroom incident,

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Speaker 1: Thomas Haney hijacked a signal at on the Playboy channel.

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Speaker 1: I think I remember hearing about this one. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was one where it was sending in religious messages essentially

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Speaker 1: saying repent and and you know you are, uh, discard

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Speaker 1: your wicked ways, that kind of thing, right, And it's

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Speaker 1: no surprise because he actually worked for the Christian Broadcast Network. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so again he had a job. Yeah, he had access

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Speaker 1: to the equipment necessary and the knowledge necessary to be

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Speaker 1: able to do this. It's not something that the average

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Speaker 1: person would be able to do. And again it was

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Speaker 1: the character generator, the the font generator that kind of

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Speaker 1: led the way. It was the main piece of evidence

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Speaker 1: that was leveled against him. Um. I remember that Pat

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Speaker 1: Robertson was very upset when the verdict was handled handed down.

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Speaker 1: He said that there wasn't enough evidence to um to

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Speaker 1: say that Haney was in fact the person who who

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Speaker 1: did this. Well, he was convicted, but um, I think

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Speaker 1: just got probation. And the first guy, McDougald, is interesting.

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Speaker 1: What he got convicted for was operating without a license

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Speaker 1: even though he had a license. So that was a

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Speaker 1: bit of a hinky ruling. I think they just had

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Speaker 1: to convict him of something, because I don't know if

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Speaker 1: the law was in place at that point. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it's kind of like that deal where

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Speaker 1: you realize, this is someone that we need to punish,

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Speaker 1: but we don't have a law that covers the crime.

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Speaker 1: We haven't defined it as a crime, but we know

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Speaker 1: that this is something people really shouldn't be able to do,

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Speaker 1: so we have to somehow justify it. Um. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: as it turns out, the every nation, uh, in some

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Speaker 1: way or another, ends up regulating the electromagnetic spectrum, but

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Speaker 1: it changes from one place to the other. Sure, there's

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Speaker 1: only so much room, right, yeah, exactly. So electromagnetic spectrum

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Speaker 1: goes all the way from radio waves, which can a

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Speaker 1: radio wave can be kilometers long, right, and then you

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Speaker 1: go all the way to the other side to like

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Speaker 1: gamma rays we're talking about on the nanoscale and everything

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Speaker 1: in between. That's the electromagnetic spectrum. Visible light is part

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Speaker 1: of that. You know, visible light is on the short side,

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Speaker 1: but radio waves and microwaves are on the longer side.

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Speaker 1: And uh not all those radio waves. You know, we

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Speaker 1: can't just all use the same ones because then we

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Speaker 1: would have interference, right if if the television and your

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Speaker 1: phone used the same frequencies, then you would have interference

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Speaker 1: between the two and that would be terrible. Nothing would

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Speaker 1: be usable. Yeah, don't call it a crunch if there's

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Speaker 1: too much activity on one frequency. Yeah, that's that's if

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Speaker 1: you've got everyone just using you know what they're supposed to.

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Speaker 1: Let's say everyone in the cellular network has they're all

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Speaker 1: on their phones. That we've seen this happen in the

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Speaker 1: life events the post couldn't. Yeah, or even just going

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Speaker 1: to a big event like any like c e S

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Speaker 1: or any large event like that, you suddenly can't get

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Speaker 1: access to anything. That's where you've got more demand for

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Speaker 1: data transmission than there is capacity. Yeah, I've tried to

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Speaker 1: get a signal at Comic Con before and it's no. No,

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Speaker 1: same thing is true a Dragon Con and that's a

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Speaker 1: like a third the size of Comic Con. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's It's also true that there are wavelengths within the

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Speaker 1: electromagnetic spectrum that are really good for carrying data and

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Speaker 1: some that aren't. So the government has divided up the

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Speaker 1: electromanetic spectrum and saying these are the sections that can

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Speaker 1: be used for specific purposes. So a large part of

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Speaker 1: it is set aside for government and military use a

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Speaker 1: large part of his side for UH radio SO AM

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Speaker 1: and FM UH. And then you also have television broadcast

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Speaker 1: that are that are partial partitioned off as well cellular

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Speaker 1: data WiFi. All of these things have their specific place

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Speaker 1: that is mandated by the government. Yeah, we'll be back

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Speaker 1: with more about the Max Hedgroom incident in just a moment.

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Speaker 1: So if you go in and start messing around with that,

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Speaker 1: the government gets breaking up set. Yeah, because I think

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Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of a Nippot in the bud situation,

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Speaker 1: like one broadcast intrusion, really no big deal. And that

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Speaker 1: apparently is why the lead investigator said that um, I

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Speaker 1: think his name was Marcus. He had a hard time

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Speaker 1: getting resources because there was a little egg on the

427
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: face and they probably just wanted it to go away

428
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: more than anything. And no one's really hurt. There was

429
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: no damage done, so they're not gonna throw a lot

430
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,199
Speaker 1: of money in time trying to find this person. And

431
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: and he also had some fairly harsh words for an

432
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: fcc UH investigator. He was actually in Chicago. He didn't

433
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: name the person and he's still salty about it though. Yeah,

434
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: I said that said that this guy wasn't willing to

435
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: go and not con doors to actually do some investigation,

436
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 1: and part of that is probably because there was this

437
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: embarrassment factor. They're also but without the teeth, you know,

438
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: with the authority, it makes it hard for someone to

439
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: go out and say there's a justification for spending the time,

440
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: resources and money necessarily for a small fine in probation,

441
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: even if they do catch the person. Now the maximum fine,

442
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: although I doubt that we would see a maximum fine

443
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: for something as small as a men and a half

444
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: interruption in Doctor Who Doctor Who fans, please don't take

445
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: me to task for that. But the maximum fine is

446
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars or a year in jail or both. Yeah,

447
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: which they were very big on announcing at the time

448
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: as well as UM. I think they had a lot

449
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: of misinformation they or I don't know if it's misinformation

450
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: or they were trying to get out a little misinformation

451
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: saying how sophisticated of an operation it was and how

452
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: expensive all the equipment must have been, which is really

453
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: not the case now. I think I think it was

454
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people trying to discourage future pranksters from

455
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: following in their footsteps. So that means, well, let's make

456
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: sure we we set the the bar very high, saying

457
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: it's really hard to do and it's really expensive. Yeah,

458
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 1: and if you do try, it's gonna get even more

459
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: expensive for you, because we're gonna find you a hundred

460
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. So now, the truth was that the transmission

461
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: equipment that was that could be used to do such

462
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: a thing, while brand new, would cost maybe you know,

463
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: a few thousand dollars, which is a significant amount of

464
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: money once it hits the aftermarket. Like you know, let's

465
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: say that you've got a a station, a small station

466
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: that is upgrading its equipment and it gets rid of

467
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: the old stuff that was on the amateur market. So

468
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: you could go out and buy that stuff and it

469
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: would be much less expensive than if you were to

470
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: buy it brand new. So I mentioned earlier in this

471
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: episode about the the hacker culture, Well have you heard

472
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 1: about freakers? Okay, so a freak or spelled p R

473
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: E A K I n G. I like it already freaking.

474
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: It's all about manipulating the phone system. So Steve Jobs

475
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: and Steve Wozniac were freakers, founders of Apple, actually Wasniac

476
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,360
Speaker 1: was really the guy who knew how to do it,

477
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: but there were a ton of them. One of the

478
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: most famous ones his name was Captain Crunch, and Captain

479
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: Crunch was called that because he discovered that by using

480
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: a Captain Crunch plastic whistle then came in a box

481
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: of cereal, he could mimic the tone that the telephone

482
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 1: company was using and allow him to make free long

483
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: distance phone calls. So you had this culture of people who, wait,

484
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: what's a long distance phone call? Yeah, okay, kids, Once

485
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: upon a time, if you wanted to call anyone outside

486
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: of your area code, it cost extra. Lady actually tell

487
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: me that the other day that was cutting my hair.

488
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: She got a phone call. She said, I'm sorry, it's

489
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: my daughter long distance. I need to step away. And

490
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: I was sitting there, going, what's long distance? Maybe intern national?

491
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: That might be it? That's about it, or you could

492
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: just keep cutting my hair, right? Yeah, yeah, you know,

493
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: it's fine. I mean, I'm not gonna know her half

494
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: a conversation, but yeah, the the uh. These were people

495
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: who thought that these huge systems were fascinating, that the

496
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: telephone system was really interesting, and learning how it worked

497
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: was fascinating, and then once you know how it works,

498
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 1: you know how to kind of game the system. Yeah,

499
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: and it's not necessarily the case that they were looking

500
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: to cause trouble or to be pranksters. Although there was

501
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: some mischief involved there too, a lot of it was

502
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: more about, oh, now I know how this works, and

503
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: that means this works this other way. It was really

504
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: more about learning the system and then negotiating it kind

505
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: of like, yes, very much like a little mischief, a

506
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,959
Speaker 1: little civil disobedience. But I don't think most of these

507
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 1: people early on, we're trying to cause harm. No, it

508
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: was really more of insatiable curiosity. Really, I can so

509
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: let me just try it out and see if it works.

510
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: I think that's exactly what happened with this, Max Head.

511
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: I totally agree. You had people who said, let's you know,

512
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: we know how radio works. Television broadcast is essentially a

513
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: radio broadcast. So once you know how that works, and

514
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: once you know that the basics behind it, are there

515
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: ways where we could end up injecting our own signal

516
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: into this and have a little fun and have a

517
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: little fun exactly. And so it was one of those

518
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: things where you had the people who had to know how,

519
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: and yet the people who had the willingness to do it,

520
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: and they were working together to create this prank and

521
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: uh again aiming at a very specific target and when

522
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: that didn't work, switching to doctor Who, Yeah, I appreciate

523
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: the attitude of most of this stuff too. To be honest, Um,

524
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: I don't think there's being wrong with a little hi

525
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: jinks to thumb your nose at the man if you're

526
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: not hurting anybody. Um, I mean, you don't want to

527
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: see it all the time because then it takes out

528
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: all the teeth out of it. But every now and then,

529
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: I kind of like, you know, when they interviewed people

530
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: in Chicago, some people on the street were really upset

531
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: and some people just kind of laughed. I was like,

532
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty great. Yeah. Yeah, because again, like

533
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: like we were saying, there wasn't any lasting harm or right,

534
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: and of course not the actual intrusion didn't cause any damage.

535
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: It wasn't it wasn't something that was going to wreck

536
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: physical equipment. No, you lost eighty seconds of doctor Who, Yeah,

537
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: which some might say is some people say it's priceless. Uh,

538
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: you know, this is Tom Baker, doctor Who we're talking about, well,

539
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: especially back then when you just couldn't go look up

540
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: you know the scene that I missed the night before,

541
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: like that was a true intrusion. Yeah, yeah, I mean

542
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: this is this is obviously pre well. I mean, the

543
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: Internet was around, but nobody was on it except for

544
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: its boards and stuff that was That was pretty much

545
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: what most hackers had access to unless they were in

546
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: a university and they had some access to the preliminary

547
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: version of the Internet. Um, but there was no worldwide Web.

548
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: There was no web. There wouldn't be another. There wouldn't

549
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: be a worldwide Web for another five years. So there

550
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: was no way of being able to go on and

551
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: and check something you missed, Nor was there a way

552
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: for you to really easily communicate with folks all over

553
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: the world. Now they could do it with local Bolton

554
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: board system And in fact, that's what we suspect, or

555
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: at least there there's a lot of suspicion that, in fact,

556
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: one of the local Chicago bbs is had people in

557
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: a forum who were at least tangentially involved in this,

558
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: if not directly responsible. But to really understand what was

559
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: going on, it helps to understand how a broadcast. Television

560
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: broadcast actually works. So here we go. We're gonna going

561
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: back to the analog days of TV broadcast technology. So now, Chuck,

562
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: you've you've been in a television studio too, right, Yeah,

563
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: you and you and Josh I'm sure have done some

564
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: of this. I've done some of this. When you see

565
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: how a TV studio works, it's actually very eye opening.

566
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: I mean to me, it completely pulled away a lot

567
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: of misconceptions that I had had. For example, you think

568
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: of like cameraman, but in large part camera operation is

569
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: done remotely, not behind a camera. Right. Uh. These cameras

570
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,959
Speaker 1: that you see in the studio are enormous and they're heavy.

571
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: And this is also the reason why I'm explaining this

572
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: is also to to illustrate why doing this live would

573
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: have been impractical. Yea, these television cameras are the reason

574
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: why they're so big and heavy is in part so

575
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: that they're incredibly smooth and steady and they aren't going

576
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: to jitter. If you know, you could drop something right

577
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: next to one, it's not going to move at all. Yeah,

578
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: it's the same reason a camera Dolly ways, you know,

579
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: a thousand pounds. Yeah, yeah, it's in order to get

580
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: that that stability that you want, so that you have

581
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: thousand pounds. By the way, they're less than that, but

582
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: they're super heavy for that reason, right, you want that

583
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: stability and that smoothness. Uh. And also, television camera doesn't

584
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: pick up sound. It doesn't have a microphone on it.

585
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: It's all about just capturing the image. Yeah, the mic

586
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: the sound is captured separately and together. They explain the magic. Yeah.

587
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: So the photons, that's the particles of light that are

588
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: coming from a scene and are being captured by a camera.

589
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: The light passes through a lens, which goes through a prism.

590
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: The prism is the purpose of a prism is to

591
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: break up light into its component parts. And this case,

592
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: we're talking about a prism that breaks light into red, green,

593
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: and blue. That's all you needed. And each of those

594
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: streams goes and is hit by or it hits a

595
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: c c D a charge couple device. Now a charge

596
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: couple device. What does is when photons hit it, it it

597
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,479
Speaker 1: generates a stream of electricity that essentially reflects the nature

598
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: of the photons that hit it. So you've got these

599
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: three streams coming out the red, green, and blue. Uh.

600
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: They then go into an encoder. Meanwhile, the sound that

601
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: you're creating is also going to head back over towards

602
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: the master control room. The information from the encoder goes

603
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: to the master control room, it gets mixed together. So

604
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: you then have a saynal that has both video and sound.

605
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: Now there, if you were to be able to visualize this, uh,

606
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 1: it would actually be like the the visual data would

607
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: make up most of the a range of frequencies like

608
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: four within four mega hurts, and then the very edge

609
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: of it, like on the far right side, that would

610
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: represent the sound. So it's just a little sliver that's

611
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: the sound. Yeah, and you're either preparing to broadcast this

612
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: out to the masses live or you're just putting it

613
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: to tape to do so later. Yeah, these days we

614
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: put on a sea or both. Yeah, exactly if you

615
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: wanted to to to keep it forever. Now, you may

616
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: have heard that there were times where people were broadcasting

617
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: stuff and never recording it. So there there are things

618
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: that have been created for television that we will never

619
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: see again. It's kind of like in some ways going

620
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: to see a live stage show. If you were there,

621
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: you saw it and weren't that's it. But uh, in

622
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,919
Speaker 1: this case, where talking about a live newscast, So that's

623
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: being broadcast out from that point. When it's all been encoded,

624
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: and you've got this video signal that has all the information.

625
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: It's got the red, the green, the blue, and the

626
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: audio all four things that you need, Yeah, it's time

627
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: to transmit that out and it goes from the studio

628
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: to a transmitter. It's called a studio transmitter link. Now,

629
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: most studios don't have an enormous antenna that's at a

630
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: really high elevation in broadcast to the general area. Cities

631
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: share them. Yeah, and we're talking about an era of

632
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: over the air television, right, You're using your antenna to

633
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: pick up wavelengths. So what what they would do is

634
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: they would use the studio transmitter link to beam this

635
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 1: information to a nearby antenna on a very tall building. Yeah.

636
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: Usually the tallest buildings in your city will have these,

637
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: and Chicago has a lot of tall building, yes, and

638
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: they use them for that purpose exactly. So if you

639
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: stream that out to the antenna, the antenna then ends

640
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: up broadcasting an electro magnetic signal and that ends up

641
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: being picked up by the antenna of your television, which

642
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: the electromagnetic signal when it hits the antenna generates an

643
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: electrical current. A tuner in your television is able to

644
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: focus in on a specific channel and thus kind of

645
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 1: filter the signal from the noise, and then it ends

646
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: up pulling out that video stream creating the red, green, blue,

647
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: and the audio, and you get your TV that you

648
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: get to watch. It's beautiful. It's I joked with you

649
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: earlier that we should just give them the explanation from

650
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: Willy Wonka, which is slightly more simplistic but but easier

651
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: to explain. But unfortunately it's not quite that easy. So

652
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: knowing how this works, where you've got the signal coming

653
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 1: from the studio being transmitted out to a giant antenna

654
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: and then broadcast to an area, there are several areas

655
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: that could be potentially vulnerable to intrusion. If you are

656
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: working on the inside, then if you're able to intercept

657
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: and put in a new signal to go to the

658
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: studio transmitter link to go out, then you're done. That's

659
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: all you need to do. You need just very easy

660
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: to do and very easy to trace back exactly. Yeah,

661
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: inside job, you're like, well, let's look at the people

662
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: who have access, because now that's all that could have

663
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: done this, But as it turns out, with a over

664
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: the air analog transmission, there was an easier way of

665
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: doing this where you didn't have to break into the

666
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 1: studio to do it. It was pretty great, actually. Yeah,

667
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: So all you have to do, and I say all

668
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: you have to do this still is pretty significant, is

669
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: you have to have a transmitter of your own. You

670
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: have to be able to have a direct line of

671
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: sight to the antenna that's going to pick up the

672
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: transmission from the studio, and you have to transmit on

673
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: the frequency that the studio uses at a higher intensity

674
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: than what the studio is doing. And then the antenna,

675
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: which is stupid. Yeah, it can't differentiate all of noses.

676
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: That's a bad signal. I don't want to broadcast. They

677
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: don't know that if it's the right frequency, it's going

678
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: to broadcast it. So when you hit the antenna, it's

679
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: gonna go for the strongest signal. I mean, this makes

680
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: sense because if you had two signals that were the

681
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: same frequency and one is stronger than the other, chances

682
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: are the other frequency is coming from a different source

683
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: further away, and that's not the one you want to transmit. Yes,

684
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: so literally all they needed. I mean, they didn't need

685
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: to to blow it out of the water, They just

686
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: needed to be stronger and to do so. Do you

687
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: just need to be a little closer. Yeah, it may

688
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: be a lot closer in this case, but but yeah, exactly,

689
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: they just had to be somewhere along the pathway from

690
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: the studio to the antenna that was being used. Uh,

691
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 1: they and they just had to transmit on the right frequency,

692
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: which was that was information they could get. They could

693
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: get the information on what frequency to use. So you've

694
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: got your transmitter, you've got your media, which in this

695
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: case was a tape that they had shot earlier that

696
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: wasn't lying. You're probably on a building, and they've got

697
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: to be somewhere pretty high up. So yeah, likely on

698
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: top of a building or at least on like a

699
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: balcony or fire escape or something where they can have

700
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: a line of sight. Uh, they are. They've got their

701
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: transmitter and geared up to the right amount of power,

702
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: they shoot it off and everything else is taken care

703
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 1: of for them. They don't try to do anything else.

704
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: In this case, the John Hancock building in the Sears

705
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: Tower with the two towers that had these two receivers.

706
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: And there's been a lot of theories over the years. Um,

707
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: most people believe they were probably high up, but I

708
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: have seen one theory that they were mobile in a van.

709
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: Not necessarily high up, but just super super close they Yeah,

710
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: that would also require them to have some way of

711
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: maintaining that line of sight and that that steady transmission,

712
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: because you know, if you if you don't, if you

713
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,720
Speaker 1: don't have your electromagnetic waves directed right at the receiver,

714
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: then it's point it's not going to be a strong

715
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 1: enough sick. Yeah, I don't. I don't buy the van theory.

716
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: It would be really really challenging powering everything. It's to

717
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: be a pretty more sophisticated. It does make me suddenly

718
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,479
Speaker 1: think that the Scooby Gang was responsible for it, because

719
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 1: you've got the big rubber mask like old man Withers.

720
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: We have a bit more to say about the Max

721
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: Headroom incident, but before we get to that, let's take

722
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: this quick break. So Channel nine, which was w g

723
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: N in Chicago. Uh, if you look at the channels

724
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: in the United States, they actually have the designated frequencies

725
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 1: they have to you know, use at least the range

726
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: that's around a D eight seven mega hurts. So you

727
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: tune your transmitter to that signal and you aim it

728
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: at the you know where the antenna is. You've identified that,

729
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: you've got it all lined up, and you're good to go. Well,

730
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: once w g N changed their frequency, that meant that

731
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: it didn't matter how much power they poured into the transit.

732
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: It's like you're speaking the wrong language. So that meant

733
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: that suddenly their their prank didn't really go anywhere. They

734
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: had a brief appearance with no audio. Yeah, so they

735
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: probably did something a little wrong on their end, on

736
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 1: their well, probably wasn't a test run. They probably wanted

737
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: it to work right, right right, But then unfortunately for them,

738
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: unfortunately for them, it didn't work with you know, without

739
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: a hitch. So they then say, well, what can we do?

740
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: How can we um save this and maybe get the

741
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: actual video that we shot scene and great, Yeah, if

742
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: you guys haven't watched this video, you really kind of

743
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: need to. But at any rate, so they then decided

744
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: to do their backup plan. They knew the frequency that

745
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,479
Speaker 1: the local public broadcast channel was using, and they knew

746
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: that that antenna was on top of the sears tower

747
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: and that they could aim at that one. And uh so,

748
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: whether or not they had to relocate, they they probably

749
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: did it just to get a good line of sight

750
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 1: on the on the antenna. But uh it was only

751
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: a two hour time difference between the first attack and

752
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 1: the second attack, so to retune the transmitter, to prep

753
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: it to get ready to hit the target, and to

754
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: make sure you have a line of sight on it,

755
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: they probably stayed in the same general area, which is

756
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: northwest part of Chicago. Northwest. Yeah, there's actually that that

757
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: article we were talking about, the Motherboard article. They have

758
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: a great picture that shows the location of both studios

759
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 1: and both antenna and it kind of shows you like

760
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 1: an area where where the two lines almost crossed, and

761
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: you figure, I bet, I bet they were somewhere in

762
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: this general area so that they could if they didn't

763
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: have to relocate. Uh then they just you know, shifted position,

764
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 1: or maybe they relocated by a couple of blocks. Um,

765
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: which raises the question how they get access to a

766
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: high enough area and still have power and all that

767
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Right now, they were just on their

768
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: buddies the roof of his apartment with an extension quarter.

769
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 1: That's probably what happened. Uh. So they then did the

770
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: second attack at eleven o'clock or eleven fourteen, and that

771
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: one worked much better. Um. And like we said, the

772
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: material they had, the equipment they had was readily available,

773
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't as rare as you would think it

774
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: would be. No. Dr Marcus, the lead investigator, said that, uh,

775
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: like a direct TV size intent of these days, it

776
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: is about all you would have needed. It's not like

777
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: one of those like school bus size stillite used to

778
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: see in backyards back in the day. It's pretty incredible. Uh,

779
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 1: the how little you would need in order to do it.

780
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: So fascinating attack, fascinating fact that it they were able

781
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: to do it without being caught. Um. And the fact

782
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: that you know, there weren't a whole lot of broadcast

783
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: intrusions after this point. You heard about maybe one or

784
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: to the Disney Channel has infamously been the attack the

785
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: side of an attack on multiple occasions. Yeah. I think

786
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl was hijacked briefly a few years ago

787
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 1: in one city only though. Yeah. Yeah, Uh, it's it's

788
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: harder and harder to do now because you've got things

789
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 1: like digital encoding. Yeah, that make it much much more

790
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: difficult for the average hacker to do. I'm surprised it

791
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: didn't happen more often back in those days, with those

792
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: early I think there's sort of the wild West. It

793
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: may very well have been that the scare tactics the

794
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: FCC used. We have totally worried, Like people said like, well,

795
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: I know I can do this, but I'm totally not

796
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: gonna do this. Um, and you know, we we talked

797
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: a little bit. Uh. There are some theories out there

798
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: about who it could have been responsible for this. My

799
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,240
Speaker 1: favorite was the the one that is probably the easiest

800
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: to dismiss, which was Eric Fournier, who was a punk

801
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: rock musician as well as an avant garde artist who

802
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: created a series of videos. Um. It's funny because the

803
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: Motherboard article refers to it as a YouTube channel, but

804
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,479
Speaker 1: in fact the videos predate YouTube. Oh yeah, I guess

805
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: it is now on a YouTube channel. But they were

806
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: called shay h s h A y E St John

807
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: Sha st John. And if you look at these, you

808
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 1: you've forced me to earlier. They do have similar quality, um,

809
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 1: very a similar feel, almost absurd, surreal, disturbing. Doesn't necessarily

810
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 1: make much sense. You know, I think of it like

811
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: you you've seen the horror movies where they all um

812
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: center around like a creepy looking doll. Right, that's a

813
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: that's a genre unto itself. There's a brand new one,

814
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: right about a doll ab Yeah. Yeah, so that's the

815
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: fact that I responded so quickly with that is not

816
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,720
Speaker 1: good for me. But yeah, it's this idea of things

817
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: that look not quite right. And the st John videos

818
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: are all about that, and they involve the looping of

819
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: certain phrases over and over again, experiments and lighting experiments

820
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: in uh camera angles, as well as digital effects or

821
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: maybe not even digital effects but special effects. The earlier

822
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: ones are actually more trippy the ones that are on

823
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: the YouTube channel itself. Um, so you can see that

824
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: the there's some shared uh aesthetics. Yeah, and he lived

825
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: in Indiana, apparently just a few hours from Chicago. Um.

826
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: He passed away in two thousand tens, so we'll never know.

827
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: I read one article that said that he admitted to

828
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: his friends that it was him, but I couldn't find

829
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 1: anything else to substantiate that. And the Motherboard article goes

830
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,359
Speaker 1: so far as to suggest that that it's not him.

831
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: It's not him, because his friends all said he at

832
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: that time in ven he had no knowledge of video editing.

833
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: All the video stuff he did was later on. It

834
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: was in the late nineties, early two thousand's, so it

835
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 1: would make sense that, um, while it's the same sort

836
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,479
Speaker 1: of kind of humor, it's not the same person. Yeah.

837
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: His old bandmate even said, you know, Eric didn't do this,

838
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: but he would have loved it. Yeah, he would have

839
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: thought it was really funny. Yeah. Yeah, And there's another

840
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: theory that Ice per sal and read it. That's how

841
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 1: I saw the link to motherboard, and you sent me

842
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: the link and I saw it and read it as well. Yeah,

843
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: this one holds some water to me. Unless this guy

844
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 1: Bowie j is that Pogue poagg one of the two,

845
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: unless he is just making all this stuff up. This

846
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: otherwise this sounds like a pretty decent lead. Yeah, I've

847
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: heard I've heard some people suggest that that perhaps the

848
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: guy himself is the one who did it, and he's

849
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: invented these personas to be the way of him explaining

850
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: how it was done without actually admitting that he did it.

851
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 1: But he he maintains his innocence. He says, no, I

852
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: really all of the evidence I have is early circumstantial.

853
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: I was thirteen when this happened, which to me suggests

854
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: that it's not him. Right, It does not seem like

855
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: a thirteen year old. No, there's no way. The voice

856
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: in the video is distorted, but it does. It definitely

857
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: seems like it's someone who's older than that. Um. But

858
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: he talks about uh, two brothers and one brother he said,

859
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: he described him as seeming to be on the autism spectrum,

860
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: and that he had a very keen interest in broadcast

861
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 1: spectrum and broadcast technology, but didn't have very many social skills. Yeah,

862
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 1: he was the poag. Yeah, he was very big as

863
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,720
Speaker 1: a thirteen year old on that in that hacker scene.

864
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: But trying it sounded like really like one of the

865
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: young ones trying to ingratiate himself into the group, into

866
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: the group. These were a little older guys who were

867
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,439
Speaker 1: more experienced. Um. He calls them J and K, which

868
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: are not their names, to provide their you know, to

869
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: guard their anonymity. And he said that Ja, who was

870
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: supposedly the autistic one, is Um. He's the one who

871
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: says that was the guy in the mask. They had

872
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: the same build. He references his brother in the video. Yeah,

873
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: he says that because he he shows a glove and

874
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 1: he says, uh, this one is dirty. My brother is

875
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: wearing the other one. Yeah, he apparently, he says, this

876
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: is from his reddit. He said, Uh, he liked to

877
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: tell dirty jokes. The dirty jokes were funny, at least

878
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,399
Speaker 1: to me. Is a thirteen year old and a woman

879
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: dressed up as Antioakley swatting someone's bare butt with a

880
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 1: fly swatter is a perfect reflection of his sense of humor. Uh.

881
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: It was usually childish and sexually deviant. Yea. And he

882
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,399
Speaker 1: talked about how he had kind of a verbal tick

883
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 1: that instead of saying uh, when he was trying to

884
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: think of something, he'd say oh yeah, and that if

885
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: you listen to the video, there's some there's a yeah,

886
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: there's a lot of him kind of making oh noises

887
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 1: between when he's saying things. Yeah. So it does kind

888
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 1: of come across as someone who's trying to think of

889
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: the next thing to say, Like, it didn't feel like

890
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,760
Speaker 1: it's He does not feel that the Max Headroom incident

891
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: was terribly scripted, Like I think it was a lot

892
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: off the cuffman. Yeah. So the the other brother, Kay

893
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: was Jay's caretaker uh and also was possibly. The theory

894
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: seems to be that Kay was the one working the camera,

895
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 1: that Ja was the one on camera, and that Kay's

896
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: girlfriend was the one with the fly swatter, and again

897
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 1: all of this ends up being circumstantial evidence. He said that,

898
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,839
Speaker 1: as uh Pogue said, as a thirteen year old, he

899
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 1: went to this apartment that was just filled with equipment.

900
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: He says that there was nothing, you know, no normal

901
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: decorations except like a rainbow kite or something in there.

902
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 1: Everything else was electronic equipment and that they were the

903
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: people they were talking about something but not explicitly talking about,

904
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 1: just saying that something big was gonna happen and that

905
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: he should definitely make sure to be watching channel nine

906
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: at nine pm, uh like w g N at nine pm,

907
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 1: so he could see the big thing that was going

908
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 1: to happen, and that he claims he didn't even put

909
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,720
Speaker 1: two and two together, ye like, he saw the incident

910
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: go down and knew that something big was going to happen,

911
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: which does seem a little hinky to me, but he

912
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: says years later, as when it all kind of connected

913
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: for me, it seems a little weird. That does seem

914
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: a little weird to me too, but he said. He

915
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: does go on to defend himself a bit and say,

916
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 1: you know that there were I heard a dozen things

917
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: from them a day that we're just sort of weird

918
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,959
Speaker 1: and out there, and it wouldn't register as anything big

919
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: to me. With they said, you know, we're gonna do

920
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: something big watch the TV tonight. So in other words,

921
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: they were a bunch of big talkers, but not Yeah,

922
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 1: this is a kid. He's trying to fit in. He

923
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: you know, it sounds like he was kind of nervous

924
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: hanging around this crowd, eager to please. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Well,

925
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: at any rate, he's the one who on Reddit just

926
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 1: laid out the situation and explained what he thought had

927
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 1: happened based upon circumstantial evidence. Again, he never witnessed any

928
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: of the us himself, according to his account, and it

929
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 1: kind of blew up on Reddit, didn't it? I did?

930
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 1: It did? And he gave specific updates and in fact,

931
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 1: he was interviewed heavily for the Motherboard article. Yeah, and

932
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 1: he explained that he tried to get in touch with

933
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: j and k Um through multiple media, like he knows

934
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 1: where they are still. Yep, he sent them Facebook messages,

935
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,479
Speaker 1: he sent an email, and he sent them actual snail mail,

936
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: right and didn't get any response. And he says, I'm

937
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: taking that as a indication that they don't want to

938
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 1: talk about this, and so out of respect for their privacy,

939
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: I'm dropping it. Yeah, And so he never revealed the

940
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 1: identities of the people. Now, he did have other people

941
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 1: on the reddit the said they were around that same

942
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: scene back then, and it sort of checks out. The

943
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: guy had a similar ability short of shortened squatty and um,

944
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:50,919
Speaker 1: so he had a little bit of support. But it's

945
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: all circumstantial and conjecture. You know, there's obviously no proof,

946
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: no smoking gun, right, so we may never know for

947
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: sure who did this. We'll have someone will have to

948
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: them forward. That's the only way. Yeah. But it's one

949
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: of those mysteries that is really interesting to read about too.

950
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: And the fact that it it's still you know, you

951
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,879
Speaker 1: can you can watch the video, you can actually see

952
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: what happened. It's kind of cool because there are a

953
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: lot of these these weird moments you just have second

954
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: or third hand accounts and you can't you can't really

955
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: experience it for yourself. You have to think, oh, what

956
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 1: would it have been like, But now you can actually see. Yeah,

957
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 1: it's a pretty neat little time capsule experience, especially if

958
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: you grew up in the eighties, right, And if you

959
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:31,439
Speaker 1: don't know who Max Headroom is, then maybe you should

960
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: do some research on that first and then watch the

961
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: video to understand how weird this was. That b B show.

962
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 1: I'm telling you it's pretty good. People should watch that. Yeah, totally, Well, Chuck,

963
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: I have to thank you for coming on the show

964
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: and for suggesting this. This was a ton of fun too.

965
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 1: I love on stuff. You should know doing our more

966
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: history centric ones, and this this is totally a history

967
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,839
Speaker 1: podcast when you think about it. For history episode. Yeah. Absolutely.

968
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that classic episode of tech Stuff

969
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: published several years ago. Now, I should probably do another

970
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: episode about incidents in which people were able to overpower

971
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: television or radio signals and create pirate stations and that

972
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. I think that would be a fun

973
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: episode to do, so I'm thinking about doing that in

974
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: the near future. If you have suggestions for topics I

975
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: should cover in future episodes of tech Stuff, let me

976
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: know on Twitter. The handle we use there is tech

977
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: Stuff hsw and I'll talk to again really soon. Tech

978
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 1: Stuff is an I heart Radio production. For more podcasts

979
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

980
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.