1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: you are in the world, it is so great to 7 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: have you here. Back for another episode as we of 8 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: course break down the psychology of our twenties. Every few years, 9 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: I feel like a new form of therapy rises to 10 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: the surface, a new form of mental health treatment and 11 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: new wellness practice becomes the new it thing. A couple 12 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: of years ago, it was like in a child healing, 13 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: and that's still very relevant that everyone was very obsessed 14 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: with it. Reiki was another one. Somatic release was another 15 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: one that people got really really obsessed with. And when 16 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: that happens, there is this like real chance that we 17 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: can become really kind of misinformed, or that we can 18 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: think that one mode of dealing with emotional and mental 19 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: issues is the only mode that we should be pursuing, 20 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: that everything else was that came before it was false 21 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: and breath work might just be the new it thing. 22 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: I feel like I've been hearing about it everywhere. Everyone 23 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: is talking about it. I know it can be so 24 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: incredibly powerful, but I'm a little bit skeptical. I've done 25 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: a little bit of research on my own, but I thought, 26 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: you know what, let's talk to an expert. I feel 27 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: like other people in their twenties, other people in general, 28 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: will have questions about all the dialogue they see online 29 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: or the recommendations there be hearing from other people about 30 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: the power of breath work. So we're going to talk 31 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: about what it actually is, how it works, how it 32 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: operates according to science, how it can go hand in 33 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: hand with more modern day practices and therapeutic approaches, and 34 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: also it's traditional and ancient roots. And of course we're 35 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: bringing on an expert who is here with us right now. Hello, Jessica, 36 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. Can you quickly introduce yourself for 37 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: the listeners. 38 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 2: It's such an honor and a delight to be with you, Jemma. 39 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: This topic of your podcast about people in their twenties 40 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 2: and how they want to care for themselves and develop 41 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: themselves and grow and be healthy and all of that 42 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: is just so important for our whole planet, not just 43 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: the individual. So it's an honor to be with you. 44 00:02:55,480 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: So yes, my name is Jessica, and I am the 45 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 2: co director of the Global Professional Breathwork Alliance, and we 46 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 2: are the organization that sets the international standards, the gold 47 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: standard for breath work training and ethics. And I also 48 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 2: have the real privilege of being the director of Inspiration 49 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 2: Consciousness School in Maryland in the United States. And it's 50 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: really a school that is dedicated to people from age 51 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: sixteen to ninety six or one hundred and six who 52 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: want to develop their capacity to be present to themselves 53 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: and other people who want to develop their capacity to love, 54 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: to be honest with you, to be compassionate and kind, 55 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 2: but also to be creative and strong and powerful and 56 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: contributing to themselves and the life of the planet. And 57 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 2: so it's just my honor. Our school uses many different modalities, 58 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 2: but all of them are breast centered because we feel 59 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: that reads the universal medicine. 60 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: Oh. I love that. That's so beautiful and what a 61 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: beautiful introduction. You are most certainly an expert. And I 62 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: actually got my hands on your book while you sent 63 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: me a copy, and it is so wonderfully comprehensive, and 64 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: I feel like breath work is really having a moment 65 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 1: online on the internet and self help communities right now, 66 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: how would you explain what breath work is and more specifically, 67 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: what is the difference between breathwork and simply just deep 68 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: breathing or meditation? 69 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: Good questions. So, breath work is a spectrum of breathing practices, 70 00:04:53,200 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: voluntary breathing, conscious breathing in different ways that address everything 71 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: from relaxation at one end and regulation to deep human 72 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: potential at the other end of the spectrum, like who 73 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 2: are we at the core? What are each of us 74 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 2: capable of? What could we bring to the world? And 75 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 2: in between you have these other factors such as how 76 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 2: it is that we can bring more awareness to everything 77 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 2: we're doing, or we can go a step further and say, okay, 78 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: if there's something that needs intervention like a physical challenge, 79 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 2: an illness and emotional dysregulation, are there particular breathing practices 80 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 2: that would target, so to speak, those specific things. And 81 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 2: there's also breathing practices that are totally meant to develop 82 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 2: human capabilities, human capacities such as strength, compassion, focus, joy, 83 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 2: and so then at the far end, of course, you 84 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 2: go all the way to who am I at my essence. 85 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: So the breathwork is really a spectrum of all of 86 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: those practices. And what I would say is it's definitely 87 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 2: differentiated from just straight meditation, because a lot of meditation 88 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 2: is centered on the breathing or uses the breathing. But 89 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: there is an aspect of meditation that is about realizing 90 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: sort of a more transcendent self, a more peaceful self, 91 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 2: all of which is fantastic. I meditate too, I'm a 92 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: great believer in it. Breathwork, though, is very focused on embodiment. 93 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: It's focused on how do I experience these things in 94 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: my body? And rather than trying to transcend certain human characteristics, 95 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: shall we say, really the deeper kind of breath work 96 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 2: is about embracing all of those characteristics and finding out 97 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 2: what's at the core of our behaviors, what's at the 98 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,119 Speaker 2: core of our motivations, why we do the wonderful things 99 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 2: we do, why we do the things that aren't so 100 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 2: good for us and sabotage ourselves and others, and how 101 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 2: we can actually transform those in the moment in the body. 102 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: And so we do find that there are some studies 103 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: that show that about ten percent of people who meditate 104 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: it actually disregulates them rather than regulates them, because it's 105 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: not dealing with some of the things that they may 106 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 2: be carrying, like trauma, for instance, Whereas with breath work particulate, 107 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 2: if you're being guided by a really well trained breath 108 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 2: worker who really knows the territory, you're actually able to 109 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: deal with your trauma that is integrated into your experience 110 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,679 Speaker 2: of what it is to become present. 111 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: That is such a beautiful explanation. And it's so interesting 112 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: that you said meditation can cause some people to become dysregulated, 113 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: because I actually heard from a listener the other day, 114 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: and I've heard from a number of listeners who are like, 115 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: I don't get the deal with meditation. I always feel 116 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: worse afterwards. So I as soon as you said that, 117 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I know a lot of people 118 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: can relate to that. Can you give us an insight 119 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: into the traditional origins of breath work and of this practice, 120 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: because I feel like this is not a new. 121 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 2: Thing, definitely not a new thing, because of course we've 122 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: all been breathing since the very beginning exactly, and in fact, 123 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 2: the whole planet breathes. Really if you could think of 124 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 2: it as one breath, because everything's involved in the oxygen cycle. 125 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 2: Oxygen's the most abundant element on our planet, the third 126 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 2: most abundant element in the universe, and not only humans 127 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 2: and all non human creature and animals, but also the plants, 128 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 2: the fungi, mycilium, trees, the earth itself has oxygen in it, 129 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: the waters, the air, the sources of heat. Everything's participating 130 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 2: in photosynthesis or in the oxygen cycle. So it's really 131 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: a comprehensive and unifying, and really it has us have 132 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 2: the realization of our essential interconnection with everything. So we 133 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 2: actually find and you might have seen this in my book. 134 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: I think I have about sixteen to twenty different places 135 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 2: or origins or cultures where it shows that from the 136 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: very beginning of particular religions, spiritual past cultures, it was 137 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 2: just really known that breathing is it, you know, breathing 138 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: is the connection between wherever it is or whatever it 139 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 2: is that we are before we come into the body 140 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: and actually being here. And so many cultures spoke of 141 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 2: it as you know, the connection with God, the connection 142 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 2: with source, the connection with creation, or even more powerfully 143 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: that it is creation, it is the source, it is God, 144 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 2: sort of moving through reality in our bodies, and so 145 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: you find it coming from Japan and China and India 146 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 2: and Africa, the African nations. There's breath work way back there, Mesopotamia, 147 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 2: just every religion that I could find, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, 148 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 2: they all have at the core of their mystical teachings 149 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 2: that it is actually the breath that is the doorway 150 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: to everything that we're looking for. 151 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: Which is amazing because I feel like as much as 152 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: it's just entering perhaps the brains and the minds of 153 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: the new generation, it's being introduced to a younger group. 154 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: The fact that it's been around for ages kind of 155 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: a lot of evidence in itself how magnificent it is. 156 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: But speaking of evidence, I'm sure a lot of people 157 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: perhaps are listening to some of these explanations and being like, 158 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: that sounds a bit a bit niche, that sounds a 159 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: bit perhaps wu wo, and whatever else they want to 160 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: label it. There is definitely science behind this, as I 161 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: saw in your book. Can you explain the science, any psychology, 162 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: any studies that kind of support the benefits of breath work? 163 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, I mean, it really is gemma that modern 164 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 2: science and ancient wisdom about breathing are finding each other. 165 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: Modern science in a sense is catching up, you know, 166 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 2: with ancient wisdom. And it used to be that it 167 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 2: might take you know, you might find a study about 168 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 2: breathing and its effects on the psyche maybe once a year, 169 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 2: once every few years, you know, And now it's like 170 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: the research is just coming out. I mean, breath as 171 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 2: you said, is really having its time, and I think 172 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:08,079 Speaker 2: it will remain that case because breath work and breathing 173 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 2: is the fundamental medicine and nutrient and friend of every 174 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 2: human being. And it's also the unifying language of the 175 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 2: human species. And we can talk about that later how 176 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 2: it transcends language and gender and political orientation and all 177 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 2: of that. So the science, though, is really powerful at 178 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 2: this point. It's irrefutable, for instance, that breathing is psychophysiological, 179 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 2: and that means that literally every breath we take has 180 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 2: a psychological derivation, and it has a physiological derivation, and 181 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 2: every breath that we take also affects us physically and 182 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: affects us psychologically, so that science is irrefutable. Another piece 183 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: of the science that's irrefutable is that low deep breathing 184 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 2: stimulates the autonomic nervous system, which we want to have 185 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: in balance. Where sympathetic and parasympathetic are working, they are reflective, 186 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 2: and when they're optimized, we're able to use our parasympathetic 187 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 2: ability to rest and digest and be and be more 188 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 2: peaceful when it's needed, and we're able to flow easily 189 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: into the sympathetic mode when we need to be active, 190 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 2: when we need to respond to something, when there's something 191 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: either urgent or just needful, and the flow back and 192 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 2: forth between those two things ideally should be very easy, 193 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: and it shouldn't be like, oh, it's hard for me 194 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 2: to get going, or I'm scared to get going, or 195 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 2: it's hard for me to stop when I'm phrenetic and 196 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 2: I can't really calm down. Optimal heart rate variability is 197 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 2: the ability to move back and forth. So we've seen 198 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 2: in study after study that bathing slowly with awareness helps 199 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: to bring that parasympathetic sympathetic balance so that you really 200 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 2: have more flow in your life. Another thing that's irrefutable 201 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 2: is that some breathing, Although I can be very specific 202 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 2: about this, it's not just any breathing, and it's not 203 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 2: the same for every person. I think that's very important 204 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 2: in breath work. I think a lot of people want 205 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: there to be a formula like if I do this breathing, 206 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 2: my anxiety will go down. If I do this breathing, 207 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 2: I'll get more energy. But the reality is we all 208 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 2: have a different genetics. We all have you know, there's 209 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 2: a lot of similarity, but there's also differences. We all 210 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: have a different attachment history, meaning who were our caregivers 211 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: and how do we relate to them? And how does 212 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 2: that affect the way our body feels and the way 213 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 2: our breathing is. Our breathing does reflect our psychological state. 214 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 2: And so it's just the case thought there's going to 215 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 2: be an ind so two people that have anxiety may 216 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 2: respond differently to different breathing techniques or different breathing practices. 217 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: And this is why I think the ultimate breathwork evolution 218 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: is going to be a bio individualized coaching for each 219 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 2: person that each person can then feel from within themselves 220 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: what really regulates. But nevertheless, the majority of people will 221 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 2: with certain kinds of breathing, have their cortisol levels greatly reduce, 222 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 2: their anxiety levels go down. And there have been many 223 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: studies showing different kinds of breathing elevating mood. One study 224 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 2: that came out of Stanford about a year and a 225 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 2: half ago, almost two years ago, now that was Spiegel 226 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: Huberman at al. Showed that the most effective breathing again 227 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 2: this is on a bell curve, so for most people 228 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 2: but not everybody, for reducing anxiety and elevating mood is 229 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 2: breathing in and then before you breathe out, you take 230 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 2: another little sifmin so you kind of lengthen that inhale 231 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 2: in two segments and then you sigh it out, and 232 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 2: five minutes of that will create a state change. And 233 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 2: if you practice it every day for thirty eight thirty 234 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: twenty eight to thirty days for five minutes, then you 235 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 2: get state to trait. You know, you get that movement 236 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 2: from I can I know what this feels like now 237 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: to its actually sticking with me. So that was a 238 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 2: really interesting study because they were comparing that to I 239 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: think box breathing and also cyclical hyperventilation. So you know, 240 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: different breathing techniques can can address different aspects of our 241 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 2: psychological states and how we can come into greater regulation, 242 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: but also how we can deal with the unmet parts 243 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 2: of ourselves. You know, perhaps it's like the parts of 244 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 2: ourselves that didn't get nourished or nurtured enough when we 245 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 2: were children. So these are the kinds of things that 246 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 2: can happen when you're working with the psychological material that 247 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,919 Speaker 2: we do in therapy, which is rarely powerful. I'm not 248 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 2: saying we shouldn't be doing therapy. I'm actually making a 249 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 2: proposal that the beauty of therapeutic understanding is going to 250 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 2: be activated and enhanced by bringing breath work into it 251 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 2: because we're able to go underneath the verbal defenses, the orientations, 252 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: the descriptions that we make about ourselves and others, and 253 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: we're able to get to feelings that we weren't able 254 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 2: to get to. We're able to get to capacities that 255 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 2: might be lying dormant in us, that never got the 256 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 2: nutrients and the attention that they need. There's all kinds 257 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 2: of possibilities, and that includes expanded states of consciousness. 258 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: Hm hmm. That's such a beautiful explanation. I feel like 259 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: you've mentioned some of the different techniques A couple of times. 260 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: You mentioned box breathing, then there was that in how 261 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: what are some of the most obviously you say, I 262 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: don't know the names. What are the some of the 263 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: different types of breath work techniques, how do they kind 264 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 1: of work, and what are they meant to be targeting? Like, 265 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: are there a couple that are that are the major 266 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: pillars of breath work? What are the most common ones? 267 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: So that's a really good question, Gemma. As you may 268 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 2: know from the book, I've really looked at the breath 269 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 2: work spectrum and I've identified five sort of groupings of 270 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 2: breath work. So the first grouping is rest and relaxation 271 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 2: or restoration or regulation, and those are your simple reading techniques. 272 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 2: There's so many of them where it's it's just read 273 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 2: inhaling a little deeper than normal usually and then kind 274 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 2: of sighing it out or letting it out or groaning 275 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 2: it out, you know, and they it's wonderful to watch 276 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 2: children do this, you know, when they're kind of angry 277 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 2: and then they take three deep breasts and they let 278 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: it out and then they go, I was angry at Johnny, 279 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 2: and then I took three deep breasts and I'm not 280 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 2: angry anymore. Of the regulation. So it can be as 281 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 2: simple as anybody can do it. Just breathe a little 282 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: deeper than normal and then let go, just kind of 283 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 2: let go kind of a sigh, a release, or even 284 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 2: you can like I said, moan or groan or even 285 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 2: make a sound. And there's other ones too, things like 286 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 2: it might be like a wave where you feel like 287 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: there's see in hill coming in and there's the ex 288 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 2: hill going out. And these things will tend to give 289 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 2: put a kind of pause on whatever stressor has been happening, 290 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 2: whatever stress reaction you're having, and it will allow the 291 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 2: body to find an equilibrium. Again. Second group has to 292 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 2: do with awareness, and that's really the beginning of being 293 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 2: more present. So that's where you're going to find your 294 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 2: mindfulness techniques, your breath awareness techniques. And so actually there's 295 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 2: a scientist at UCLA named Jack Feldman. He's a very 296 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 2: awarded considered really the top breathing scientist in the world 297 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 2: today and has a prize that's like one step down 298 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 2: from the Nobel And he found the origin of breathing 299 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,679 Speaker 2: in the brainstem, which he named the prebot center complex, 300 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 2: and he wanted he was very interested about what is it, 301 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 2: why is it that mindfulness works for most people? And 302 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,959 Speaker 2: what he discovered was that when it works, the reason 303 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: it's working has to do with breathing, the mindfulness, it's 304 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 2: not so much about what you're paying attention to where 305 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 2: that helps. It's an enhancement. But he took mice and 306 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 2: he breathed them. He made them breathe at a certain 307 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 2: rate for a certain amount of time each day, and 308 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 2: the group that did that breathing thirty days later, when 309 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 2: they were introduced to a fear inducing stimulus, they were 310 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 2: markedly less fearful than the control group. So it's things 311 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 2: like that where he hasn't quite published that study yet, 312 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 2: but it's going to be coming out. So you have 313 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,239 Speaker 2: these breath awareness mindfulness techniques that really give you the 314 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 2: capacity to be more aware of your internal environment, your interception, 315 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 2: and your extraception, like what is going on around you, 316 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 2: and to be in the present rather than in the 317 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 2: future or the past. Only your third grouping has to 318 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 2: do with interventions. So this is where you know you 319 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 2: have asthma, you have hyperactivity, neurodivergence, you have a kind 320 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 2: of a low energy like you constantly sort of feel fatigued, 321 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 2: you have a hyperactivity and you feel over adrenalized. Yeah, 322 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,400 Speaker 2: they're just things like that, and there are very specific 323 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: techniques that can address those kinds of things. For instance, 324 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 2: one is something that I learned when I was much 325 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 2: younger and I was studying yoga breathing techniques. Yogic pronium 326 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 2: is sleeping, a sleeping breathing technique and really works. It 327 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 2: has to do with the ratio of the inhale to 328 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 2: the exhale. Or there's another one that I talk about 329 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 2: in the book that I was taught it as asthma 330 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 2: breathing or asthma proniama, but I've renamed it respiratory healing 331 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 2: because it just works on about any kind of respiratory ailment, 332 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: emphysema COPD. My own father had COPD and I had 333 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 2: him doing these exercises, and he lived to be ninety nine, 334 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 2: and the doctor said that there was no doubt that 335 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 2: the breathing techniques had really given him extra time, extra years. 336 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 2: So you'll have also techniques in there for deep emotional regulation, 337 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 2: like coherent breathing, which is sometimes called resonance breathing, which 338 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 2: is basically an equivalent ratio of the inhale and the 339 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,199 Speaker 2: exhale are the same count and it's generally five to 340 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 2: six breasts per minute for most people. But again there's 341 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 2: a bioindividuation, and there are people that do better with 342 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 2: four breaths a minute, and there are people that do 343 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 2: better with eight. And what the science is showing is 344 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 2: actually just that it's the fact that the inhale and 345 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 2: the exhale are at the same equivalent amount of time 346 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 2: that is really the mitigating factor there. The fourth grouping 347 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 2: has to do with human development, and these are your 348 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 2: beautiful breathing techniques, like how do you breathe with the 349 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 2: sense of breathing into your heart and feeling compassion, for instance, 350 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 2: for yourself and others, and then letting your body feel 351 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 2: or what kind of breathing can you do to feel 352 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 2: more focused and stronger, or what kind of breathing can 353 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 2: you do to feel a sense of joy and gratitude 354 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,719 Speaker 2: and ambulance. So these are the development of the deeper 355 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 2: kind of desirable human qualities. And then that fifth group 356 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 2: is what I call human potential breath work, and it's 357 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 2: really where you're breathing in a certain way continuously. Some 358 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 2: schools call it conscious connected breathing. There are so many 359 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 2: different ways that this variety of breathing is called holotropic 360 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 2: breath work, integrative breath work, rebirthing, conscious connected breathing, therapeutic breathwork, 361 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 2: transfer national breath and all of them are giving the 362 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 2: person permission to breathe really deeply and really continuously, because 363 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 2: when we hold our breath there's a kind of unconsciousness 364 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 2: that can happen. So you breathe continuously so that the 365 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 2: unconscious starts to become more conscious. It's really quite miraculous, 366 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 2: and that feelings, images, yearnings, hopes, you know, even the 367 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 2: so called visions that we can all have, can begin 368 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 2: to surface in an atmosphere of love, in an atmosphere 369 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 2: of unconditional positive regard and acceptance, and we can integrate 370 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 2: these more transcendental, more trans personal, more holotropic aspects of ourself. 371 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 2: Really it's the level of soul in some ways, it's 372 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 2: really that part of the psyche that wonders about the 373 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 2: deeper parts of life and the mystery of life, like 374 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 2: what is this soul really about? And who am I 375 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 2: really and what am I really capable of? And what 376 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 2: is the meaning of life? And so that kind of 377 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 2: breath work does that, and so there are many different 378 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 2: technique there's a variety of techniques, shall we say, a 379 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 2: whole panically. 380 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,239 Speaker 1: And I feel like there's something for everyone. Perhaps one 381 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: of the misconceptions with breath work is that, yes, like 382 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: we said before, it is just deep breathing and there 383 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: is one strategy. But like you said, breath is is 384 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: like life itself, and if life itself is as varied 385 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: that it is as it is, then our breath can 386 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: be as well. We are going to take a short 387 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: break right now, but when we return, I want to 388 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: also talk about some of the misconceptions about breath work, 389 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: whether it can be scary, what you would say to skeptics, 390 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: but also how we can kind of integrate it into 391 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: more modern medicinal practices and modern therapeutic techniques. So stay 392 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: with us. Okay, we are back with our breath work expert, Jessica. 393 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 1: So this is a personal question of mine that I 394 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: have about breath work, and basically using this interview as 395 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: an excuse just to ask you what I want to know, 396 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:23,479 Speaker 1: which is, can breath work be scary? You know some 397 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: people report feeling strange afterwards, or even high or whatever 398 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: it is. Can it yeah, can it be scary? What 399 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: should we know about that element of it? 400 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 2: So? I think most people enjoy feeling high and if 401 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 2: because it's a positive experience. So that part alone isn't 402 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 2: what scares them. What scares them is when there is 403 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 2: what I will call intrapsychic material feelings that may have 404 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 2: been buried, memories that may have not you know, you 405 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 2: didn't remember that you knew these things, capacities within the self, 406 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 2: even like trans personal kinds of experiences, like feeling connected 407 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 2: to everything, feeling that there's a power greater than yourself. 408 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 2: Whether you just think of that as physics like you know, 409 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 2: quantum quantum field, or whether you think of it as 410 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: a divine entity. I think that in and of itself, 411 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 2: that wouldn't scare anybody, because it actually feels like you're 412 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 2: coming more home to yourself than you've ever been. But 413 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 2: what scares people is that they don't they didn't live 414 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 2: in a culture that taught them that it was okay 415 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 2: to have those kind of experiences. So if they're not 416 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 2: working with a breath worker who's really skilled, when they're 417 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 2: going into those deeper kinds of experiences, they might have 418 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 2: a moment of feeling un mirrored. You know, psychotherapeutically, we 419 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 2: want people in process to feel mirrored, to feel attuned 420 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 2: to and so this is why I feel really lucky, privileged, 421 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 2: honored to be the co director of the Global Professional 422 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 2: Breathwork Alliance because we are setting standards for training and 423 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 2: for ethics, and we have a very deep ethics around 424 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 2: the expanded states of consciousness that people can access through breathing. 425 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 2: You know, there's been two studies now that have shown 426 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: that that kind of group five breathwork, that human potential 427 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 2: breath work can be equivalent or even greater than the 428 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 2: effects of psychedelics, but without the side effects. But what 429 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 2: you need for it to be of ultimate use is 430 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 2: you need a guide or a coach, or an understanding 431 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 2: of what's happening so that you can celebrate that this 432 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 2: incredible thing is opening up for you. So I know, like, 433 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: for instance, yes, occasionally, one example would be if you're 434 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 2: doing that deeper kind of breath work, you might feel 435 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 2: a kind of tingling, for instance, in your hands or 436 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 2: feet or just anywhere in your body, and you come 437 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 2: to understand that at the deepest level, it's where there's 438 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: life force waking up that hasn't been there before. But 439 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 2: if you don't have somebody explaining that to you, it 440 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 2: could be it could feel scary, for sure, but I remember, 441 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 2: for instance, one student I had that when it stopped 442 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 2: happening for him because he just got to the place 443 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: where he was living it in an integrated way all 444 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 2: the time, he was kind of sad because he liked that, 445 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: you know, that feeling of being stretched a little bit. 446 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 2: So I don't think that breathwork needs to be scary 447 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 2: at all, and I think that in our school, for instance, 448 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 2: at Inspiration Consciousness School, I think our practitioners are trained 449 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 2: to track people. We don't We don't actually like people 450 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 2: to do group breath work without also doing some individual 451 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 2: breath work where they're getting that one on one coaching 452 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 2: and we tell them that this is something you'll be 453 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 2: able to do on your own very shortly. But you 454 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 2: just want to become familiar with the kind of territory 455 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 2: that can open up because you are you know, you 456 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 2: are filled with potential and all of that it's just 457 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 2: going to come forward. 458 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: It sounds like it's quite a smart approach, one that 459 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: keeps people safe and one that keeps people in the 460 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: space that they're prepared and ready to be in, which 461 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: I think makes me feel a lot better about this practice. 462 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: A kind of follow up question to that, as well, 463 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: is what are some of the breakthroughs that people experience. 464 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: I know you've spoken a bit about some from students 465 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: of yours and also some of your own. Yeah, what 466 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: can people kind of maybe expect or not expect? 467 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 2: So, first of all, I mean, some of it depends 468 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 2: on what level of breath work you're engaging, Right, So 469 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 2: if you're just if you're doing group one practices, you're 470 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 2: mostly going to feel a sense of regulation, release, relaxation, 471 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 2: let go, you know, just more at ease, less a dreamalized, 472 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 2: less cortisol going, and that's wonderful, that's beautiful. Or if 473 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 2: you're doing your mindfulness stuff, you'll feel more present, more engaged, 474 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 2: more able to be with whatever it is, whether it's 475 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 2: cold or hot, or busy or not busy or whatever. 476 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 2: And then there's your individual techniques that are targeting those 477 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 2: particular conditions. There's the development of these qualities of sealth 478 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 2: and capacity that you might have. I think if we're 479 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 2: doing the deeper kind of breath work that you're talking 480 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 2: about with some of those effects. I could just tell 481 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 2: a few stories. One person was a concentration camp survivor 482 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 2: from Auschwitz and her son wanted her to come see 483 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 2: me because he had grown up. She had survived auschwitzen, 484 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 2: so she didn't want anything to happen to her children. 485 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 2: So they were never allowed to like blind trees or 486 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 2: you know, a mountain or anything that she thought could 487 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 2: cause them damn. And she was just like so fearful. 488 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 2: So she had high anxiety levels, massive amounts of control issues, 489 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 2: and she didn't want to come see me. She came 490 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 2: and she said to me, the only reason I'm coming 491 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 2: is to appease him. Nothing's going to happen. She had 492 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 2: never told her story about Auschwitz. She refused to talk 493 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 2: about it. All anybody, even her family knew, was that 494 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 2: she had survived it. So she said, I'm not going 495 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 2: to tell you or anything. So I sat there with 496 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 2: her and we would talk about her son. She said, 497 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 2: we'll just sit here for an hour and then I'll 498 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 2: tell him I did it and we'll go home. So 499 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 2: when she would say something beautiful about her son that 500 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: she really loved, and I loved her son too, I'd 501 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 2: say that's so BEAUTI full, wow, Can I just take 502 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 2: that in for a minute, And I would breathe deeply 503 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 2: and audibly, and the mirror neurons started going after a while, 504 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 2: and so without her realizing it, I never asked her 505 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 2: to breathe deeply. I didn't want to break down her control. 506 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 2: She had every right to be protective of herself with 507 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 2: what she had lived through. I wanted to honor her 508 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 2: internal wisdom. So I never asked her to breathe deeply, 509 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 2: but I would breathe deeply, And after about twenty minutes, 510 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 2: she didn't realize it, but she was starting to breathe 511 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 2: deeply whenever I would. And then she asked me to 512 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 2: share about some suffering in my life. And when I 513 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 2: would say certain things that he vote compassion in her, 514 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 2: she would breathe deeply without realizing it. And all I 515 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,320 Speaker 2: can tell you is that enough of those deep breasts 516 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 2: happen that about an hour into it, she started sharing 517 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 2: with me, with no I didn't even ask her. She 518 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 2: shared with me the whole story of how she survived Auschwitz. 519 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 2: And we were there for two hours, and when her 520 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 2: son came in, he said the room was just luminous. 521 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 2: She became a more connected person, and she developed the 522 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 2: courage that when Steven Spielberg came to town with the 523 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 2: show A Project, which was when he was going to 524 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 2: make Schindler's list he was interviewing concentration camp survivors. She 525 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 2: had the courage to go and tell her story, and 526 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 2: that story is still up on their website. Her name 527 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 2: is Alice Krause. And so that's a remarkable story because 528 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 2: we didn't even do that of intensive breathing. It was 529 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 2: just the deeper breathing and the mirroring, you know, the 530 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 2: unconditional positive regard that Carl Rogers, great humanist psychologists, taught 531 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,880 Speaker 2: us about, and how that can be enhanced by breathing together, 532 00:35:55,040 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 2: which transcends language, race, jen under orientation, you know, it 533 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 2: brings us down to a more unified place. And look 534 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 2: what happened. I think about a young man who had 535 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 2: bipolar disorder but it was undiagnosed, and he had a 536 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,720 Speaker 2: kind of spiritual awakening and he was really just seen 537 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 2: like all of these greater truths about life. But his mother, 538 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 2: who did have bipolar, was noticing that he was getting 539 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 2: kind of manic, and so she brought him to see me. 540 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 2: And we would never do like fast breathing with somebody 541 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 2: that was in that kind of state. So we did 542 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 2: very slow, regulated breathing, and at some point I said, 543 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 2: I think that you need, we should go to the 544 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 2: hospital and you should get evaluated to see if you 545 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 2: could also be assisted with some you know, pharmaceuticals. And 546 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 2: so we went for like six days and he got 547 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 2: onto some medication as well, and then it took us 548 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 2: about two years of breathing. Following his breathing, he was 549 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 2: determined to get off the medication and to be able 550 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 2: to access those states that he had been in a 551 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 2: flow and awaken, mean is what he called it, without 552 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 2: going into the bipolar state. And indeed that happened. And 553 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 2: it's twenty years later and he's not been on medication 554 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 2: for that whole time, and he needs a wonderful life, 555 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,840 Speaker 2: and he does breathing techniques, and I mean, I could 556 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 2: go on and on. It's really I think one of 557 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 2: the keys, Jemma, there are these I think that there 558 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 2: are these kind of breathwork practices that people can do 559 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 2: to just support themselves on a daily basis, to be healthier, 560 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 2: to be more regulated. I encourage everybody to do a 561 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 2: minimum of seven minutes of just deeper breathing a day. 562 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 2: But I think if you're really looking for psychological well 563 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 2: being and wholeness, that is includes that transformation that would 564 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 2: happen with the unconscious self, with parts of us that 565 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 2: might be traumatized and who isn't traumatized in today's world. 566 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 2: On one level, I think that developing a relationship with 567 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 2: a really skilled breath worker, even for a short period 568 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,800 Speaker 2: of time, just really sets you on the right path. 569 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: I love that advice, and that kind of brings me 570 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 1: to our second last question. We're almost at the end 571 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,320 Speaker 1: of this interview. Now I could go on for ages, 572 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: but you've kind of already talked about it. How do 573 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:44,359 Speaker 1: you think breath work fits in with broader therapeutic practices, 574 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:52,240 Speaker 1: the broader need for modern day medicine for diagnoses? Yeah, 575 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: how can it be part of a more individualized approach 576 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 1: to mental health and broader conditions that kind of afflict 577 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 1: people with out without offering itself as the only option. 578 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,720 Speaker 1: It's kind of what I'm trying to say as an additive. 579 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 2: Right, it's not the only option. It is an option 580 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 2: that can be centered within every other option. So you know, 581 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 2: breathing's the universal medicine. Even a person on a respirator, 582 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,760 Speaker 2: even a person who's paralyzed, is breathing, So there's something 583 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 2: they can do volitionally even if they're breathing. My dad 584 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 2: was on a respirator a couple of times and we 585 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 2: did breathing practices with him. You can direct the intentionality 586 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 2: of the breathing. So it's really a universal medicine, and 587 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 2: that's a very exciting prospect in terms of what it 588 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 2: could mean for people having greater tolerance and understanding for 589 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 2: each other and wanting to work together creatively to build 590 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,359 Speaker 2: a world that we can all relish together. So I 591 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 2: think that you know one of them that I sometimes 592 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 2: say is a breathworker in every emergency room, a breath 593 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 2: worker in every school, a breath worker in every office building, 594 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 2: a breath worker in every theater. Because people having a 595 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 2: sense of energy, physical wellbeing, emotional regulation being responded to 596 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 2: if they're having intense emotion could really really improve the 597 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,240 Speaker 2: health of our whole species. So if you think about 598 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 2: something like, for instance, I've talked to the founder of 599 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 2: Internal Family Systems, which I think probably a lot of 600 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,839 Speaker 2: your listeners know about. It's a very powerful psychological orientation, 601 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 2: and we've talked about the fact that I've worked with 602 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 2: parts of people that's how you think about Okay, there's 603 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 2: this part that's angry. There's this part that's a firefighter, 604 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 2: there's this part, and each of them breathe a little differently. 605 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,760 Speaker 2: But what they find is that they breathe a little differently, 606 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,879 Speaker 2: but they're all breathing, so that becomes the unifying thing, 607 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 2: and then they can integrate into the self. So I 608 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:17,399 Speaker 2: cannot think of a single psychological modality, including Freudian analysis. 609 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 2: We're breathing deeply and having that sense of embodiment helps 610 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 2: to dissolve dissociation, which is a really important thing in 611 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 2: psychological process and helps bring the sense of agency and 612 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 2: the sense of personal empowerment. I can't think of a 613 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 2: single holistic modality of acupuncture or reiki or the body 614 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 2: works that wouldn't benefit by a person also being able 615 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,839 Speaker 2: to breathe to somatically meet whatever is happening. Same thing 616 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:59,360 Speaker 2: in mainstream medicine. You know, if people are breathing more deeply, 617 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 2: they're healthier. My father had COPD, that's chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, 618 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 2: and like I said, the doctors were very clear that 619 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 2: the breathing that we did gave him several years of 620 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 2: extra life. And so I just can't think of a 621 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 2: single modality where it wouldn't enhance what's going on, because 622 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 2: it helps document, it helps with awareness and what happens 623 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 2: in the brain when you take when you consciously breathe 624 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 2: is rather than just activating. When we're breathing, we're just 625 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 2: getting activation from the brain stem. But when we're automatically breathing, 626 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 2: but when we breathe consciously, the neocortex comes online and 627 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 2: the limbic brain comes online, and we find that the 628 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 2: respiratory circuits are embedded throughout the whole brain. So you 629 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 2: develop a kind of global coherence neurologically, which gives you 630 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:59,360 Speaker 2: access to many more resources, keeps you more present instead 631 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 2: of just reacting unconsciously to things. And so honestly, the 632 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 2: ability for conscious breathing to help even us have a 633 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,840 Speaker 2: greater sense of inter reception and what's going on in 634 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 2: our own body, I think would be a very partnering 635 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 2: thing for medicine, for modern medicine, and just the ability to, yeah, 636 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,839 Speaker 2: to be in a more regulated state. I think I 637 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 2: just have never been able to think of one modality 638 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 2: where it wouldn't help. 639 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, as you were saying that, I was trying to 640 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 1: rack my brain and I was like, oh, no, I 641 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,359 Speaker 1: couldn't think of any couldn't think of any, So I'm 642 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 1: testing your hypothesis there. So I've got one final question 643 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,360 Speaker 1: for you, and it actually has nothing to do with 644 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: breath work. In fact, I asked that it doesn't have 645 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: anything to do with breath work. At the end of 646 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: every episode I have with a guest, I always ask them, 647 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 1: what is the best piece of advice that you would 648 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 1: give to someone in their twenties that has nothing to 649 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: do with what we talked about today. 650 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,839 Speaker 2: You know, I feel a great deal of emotion, and 651 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 2: I'm going to call it luminosity rise up in me 652 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 2: as you ask that question, Gemma, because honestly, what I 653 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 2: feel like I would say is you are so beautiful 654 00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 2: and you are so filled with potential. And whatever you 655 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 2: may think about yourself now, whatever you may think are 656 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 2: your limitations or that you weren't given certain things, I mean, 657 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 2: all of that may be true, but there is a 658 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 2: part of you that is, you know, inviolately, I mean, untouched, 659 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 2: just beauty within you. And I really hope that you 660 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:49,959 Speaker 2: will allow yourself to be supported by people who care 661 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:54,360 Speaker 2: about you and see you, and by learning that stimulates you, 662 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 2: and that you will allow this part of you to 663 00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 2: come out, because you are you will be able to 664 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 2: contribute something to this planet that nobody else has ever 665 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 2: contributed before or will again. When you know, when you're 666 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,080 Speaker 2: in your twenties, I think Oscar Wilde said this thing 667 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 2: of youth is wasted on the young. I don't know 668 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 2: if you've ever heard that. Oh yeah, I just when 669 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 2: you're in your twenties, there's still so much natural cheat 670 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 2: you know, natural kind of vitality. Even if you're dealing 671 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 2: with a chronic illness, it's a lot different dealing with 672 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,239 Speaker 2: it in your twenties. And let's say when you're in 673 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 2: your seventies. And so if the people who are in 674 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:42,000 Speaker 2: their twenties can really connect with the beauty that lies 675 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,520 Speaker 2: within them, with the potential that lies and really believe 676 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,279 Speaker 2: in it and form teams of people and friends that 677 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,839 Speaker 2: believe in them to cheer lead them on throughout their life, 678 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,879 Speaker 2: it's just twenty year olds have everything they could give 679 00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,759 Speaker 2: to the world. So that would be my deepest piece 680 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 2: of it. 681 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 1: I think that's such a beautiful way to finish the episode, 682 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: and also just a nice reminder that for anyone in 683 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: their twenties, two is listening, which is probably most people 684 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 1: like we are truly so young. And I always really 685 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,840 Speaker 1: appreciate when we have people who have a lot of 686 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,320 Speaker 1: wisdom come on the show who basically say some version 687 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: of that, which is like, slow down, you have time, 688 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,360 Speaker 1: you're can figure it out. I find that incredibly comforting. 689 00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,600 Speaker 1: And I found so much of what you had to 690 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:35,400 Speaker 1: say incredibly informative and nourishing and made me see the 691 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,880 Speaker 1: world in a different way. So I really appreciate your 692 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,000 Speaker 1: wisdom and your knowledge. Thank you for coming on the show. 693 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,520 Speaker 2: It's an honor, Gemma, thank you for doing the work 694 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:44,560 Speaker 2: you're doing for the world. 695 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 1: Oh of course, I'm gonna leave all of Jessica's links 696 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,359 Speaker 1: down below, including the link to her book, the link 697 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,399 Speaker 1: to her school, and everywhere else you can find her. 698 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: If you want to continue learning about breath work, she 699 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: is the source for you. I think she knows more 700 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 1: than more than about ninety nine point nine ninety nine 701 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,440 Speaker 1: percent of the people on this brilliant topic. Thank you 702 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,680 Speaker 1: again for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure 703 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,520 Speaker 1: you share it with a friend or someone you believe 704 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,840 Speaker 1: would benefit from it. Make sure as well, that you 705 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 1: are following us on Instagram at that psychology podcast so 706 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,839 Speaker 1: you can know when new episodes go live, ask us 707 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,200 Speaker 1: questions and just give feedback or join the conversation. But 708 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,120 Speaker 1: until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle with yourself, 709 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 1: Breathe deeply, and we will talk very very soon,