WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Jack O'Lanterns and Sleepy Hollow

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's chucking. Yes, Davis here in spirit. I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>I even need to say it. Maybe next time i'll

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<v Speaker 1>say it is when Dave's actually here. How about that

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<v Speaker 1>he's a disembodied spirit. That's right, chuck, nicely done. Because

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<v Speaker 1>this is a Halloween esque, halloween ish, nay Halloween e

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<v Speaker 1>short Stuff episode. Yeah, in October, we try and throw

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<v Speaker 1>and throw you a couple of bones from the skeleton

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<v Speaker 1>dangling from behind you. That's right, nicely so dumb, I know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think we explained Jack Lanards at some point. We

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know we did. We did a Halloween episode that

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<v Speaker 1>we could either redo or re release. That was good. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but we definitely talked about Jack Lenerds in that one.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, well, we're gonna do it again, okay, uh yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because I don't really recall the story. But the whole

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<v Speaker 1>idea of Jack o Lanards is that they're based on

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<v Speaker 1>a Irish legend of a man named Stingy Jack who's fascinating,

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<v Speaker 1>but you probably wouldn't have wanted to be friends with him. No,

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<v Speaker 1>not Stingy Jack, which is how I read it in

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<v Speaker 1>my head. Four times until just now when I said

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<v Speaker 1>stingy No, I finally figured it out, because it's pretty

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<v Speaker 1>obvious where he gets that name. But it was still

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<v Speaker 1>very thick headed and saying stingy Jack in my head.

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<v Speaker 1>But Stingy well, he was stingy because his legend has it. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>Stingy Jack was hanging around, said the devil comes walking

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<v Speaker 1>by and he says, hey, devil, let's go have a

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<v Speaker 1>cool one. You could use that. And the devil said, sure,

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<v Speaker 1>let's do it. So Stingy Jack at the end of this, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>this little drinking sessh says, I'm a little light devil,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't have Uh, I forgot my wallet. If you

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<v Speaker 1>could help me out here, uh, turn yourself into a

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<v Speaker 1>coin so we can pay and get out of here.

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<v Speaker 1>So the Devil's like, all right, no harm, no foul,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll turn myself into a coin. And then Jack says,

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<v Speaker 1>I've got you. I'm gonna put you in my pocket

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm going to put you next to that silver

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<v Speaker 1>cross and you were just going to stay there as

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<v Speaker 1>a little coin. Sorry devil. Yeah. No word on how

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<v Speaker 1>he got away without paying the drinks in the first place,

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<v Speaker 1>but he got his drinks, and he got to keep

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<v Speaker 1>the devil coin. Uh. And then finally the devil's like,

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<v Speaker 1>come on, dude, I have things to do. Please let

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<v Speaker 1>me out of your pocket. And stingey Jack said, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll let you out, but you have to promise not

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<v Speaker 1>to bug me for a full year. And the devil said, fine, whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't care, and Sol said, you invited me for drinks, right,

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<v Speaker 1>He said, well, I didn't realize you're gonna bother me. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>So the devil, being a fine upstanding devil, uh, said

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<v Speaker 1>I will honor that agreement and left Jack alone. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometime around the next year, Jack got in touch with

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<v Speaker 1>this old friend devil, who by this time I had

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<v Speaker 1>forgotten that Jack had kept him trapped as a coin

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<v Speaker 1>in his pocket. Said hey, you want to hang again?

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<v Speaker 1>Devil said sure, And I guess somehow stinge Jack got

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<v Speaker 1>it in the devil's head that the devil should climb

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<v Speaker 1>a tree and pick him a piece of fruit. And

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<v Speaker 1>that didn't go according to plane as far as the

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<v Speaker 1>devil's concerned. There did it? No, it didn't, because the

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<v Speaker 1>devil climbs up the tree and checks like, I got

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<v Speaker 1>you again, devil. Look, I've carved the sign of the

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<v Speaker 1>Cross into the tree bark, so you can't come down,

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<v Speaker 1>and um, how about this, don't bother me for ten years? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>And not only that, if I die, you can't take

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<v Speaker 1>my soul. And the Devil's like, good Lord, this guy

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<v Speaker 1>really drives a hard bargain. But okay, fine, I'll agree

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<v Speaker 1>to all these terms. And not only will I agree

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<v Speaker 1>to him, being the devil, a fine upstanding devil that

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<v Speaker 1>I am, I will honor these terms. I will not

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<v Speaker 1>go back on my word. And he didn't. He didn't

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<v Speaker 1>because Sinci Jack died and the devil didn't try to

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<v Speaker 1>take his soul. As a matter of fact, wouldn't let

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<v Speaker 1>him in Hell, and God wouldn't let him in heaven.

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<v Speaker 1>So Cinci Jack was left to roam the earth. That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you're wondering what all the us rigamarole has

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<v Speaker 1>to do with Jack A Lanard's, he was sent off

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<v Speaker 1>in the dark, had, like you said, couldn't go to heaven,

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't go to hell, stuck in between, and had a

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<v Speaker 1>burning coal to light his way, and he put that

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<v Speaker 1>coal into a carved out turn up. And he was

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<v Speaker 1>known by the oirish as Jack of the lantern. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>but the Irish never said the word of in their

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<v Speaker 1>entire lives, the entire history of the Irish. So that's

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<v Speaker 1>where we get Jack a lantern, that's right. Uh. And

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<v Speaker 1>that turnip. Depending on where you were in the world

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<v Speaker 1>and this legend moved around, that turn up might become

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<v Speaker 1>a potato, it might become a beat if you're in

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<v Speaker 1>England or or if you're in the United States. One thing,

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<v Speaker 1>we have a lot of us pumpkins. Yes, so when

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<v Speaker 1>you're carving a Jack o lantern, you're paying homage to

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<v Speaker 1>a double dealing satan advantage taking uh Irish guy named

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<v Speaker 1>Stingia Jack. Okay, I love it. So there's part one.

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna take a break and we're gonna mix it

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<v Speaker 1>up just a little bit and go tangentially. Tangentially that's

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely right, Jack Leonard related right after this. Okay, Chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>we're back and we're talking about now nothing that has

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<v Speaker 1>to do with check. Well, I guess a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>like you said, tangentially um one of the better, well

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<v Speaker 1>not better, one of the first ghost stories in American history,

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<v Speaker 1>I think one of the I mean, there's of course

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<v Speaker 1>been a lot of great ghost stories since. But the

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<v Speaker 1>legend of Sleepy Hollow is great. It is great. But

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<v Speaker 1>if you've read other Washington Irving short stories, he's actually

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<v Speaker 1>written much scarier stuff than that. That's a little more

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<v Speaker 1>tongue in cheek than some of the other scarier stuff

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<v Speaker 1>he's written. All right, fair enough, it's fine though. Uh So,

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<v Speaker 1>the legend of Sleepy Hollow concerns the Headless Horseman. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think, if you're a kid um, even if all

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<v Speaker 1>you ever saw was that Disney cartoon, the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>the Headless Horseman is utterly terrifying. Yes, totally, absolutely, one

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<v Speaker 1>of the more terrifying figures in American history American lore agreed. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And it takes place in the real Sleepy Hollow in

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<v Speaker 1>Westchester County, New York. And it is about a new

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<v Speaker 1>man in town, the sort of lanky, goofy schoolmaster, Ichabod Crane,

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<v Speaker 1>who is in love with in courts Katrina or all

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<v Speaker 1>thinks he's in love with Katrina von Tassel. Uh. And

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<v Speaker 1>when he is rebuff at a party by Katrina, he

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<v Speaker 1>that headless horseman appears seemingly out of nowhere and chases

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<v Speaker 1>him down. Uh and he vanishes. Yeah, Kabob Crane has

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<v Speaker 1>never found or heard from. Um, there's that jack O

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<v Speaker 1>Lanard because you know he's he throws that flaming jack

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<v Speaker 1>O Lanard in the cartoon right. Well, in the story,

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<v Speaker 1>the headless horseman throws his head and connects with Akabod

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<v Speaker 1>Crane's head and knocks him off of his horse. And um,

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<v Speaker 1>all that's found near the spot the next day is

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<v Speaker 1>a smashed pumpkin. So it's not entirely clear whether it

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<v Speaker 1>was a headless horseman or somebody playing a prank or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>But um, if it was all in Iikabod Crane's imagination.

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<v Speaker 1>But the upshot is is that he was never heard

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<v Speaker 1>from again, which is pretty mysterious. Um. The thing that's

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<v Speaker 1>so cool about the legend of Sleepy Hollow though, and

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<v Speaker 1>what makes it so interesting is that Washington Irving, like

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<v Speaker 1>kind of inner wove fact and fiction to come up

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<v Speaker 1>with this tail um quite brilliantly. Actually. I think it's

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<v Speaker 1>one of the reasons why it is so so creepy

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<v Speaker 1>is because you hear like, oh wait, there's a real

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<v Speaker 1>town called Sleepy Hollow in New York and stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I wonder if you go to sleepy hollow.

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<v Speaker 1>If there's a any sort of touristy things you can do, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I would guess. So I wonder what they do. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, but I guarantee there's a there's a headless horseman. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm not sure if it's a thriving tourist industry

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<v Speaker 1>but all but it's a pretty respectable tourist industry they

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<v Speaker 1>got going on there, especially this time of year. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but you're right, he wove a lot of real things

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<v Speaker 1>in their real locations. The old Dutch church, um, the churchyard,

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<v Speaker 1>Major Andre's Tree. Uh. There may have been a real

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<v Speaker 1>Ichabod Crane. I mean there was. We just don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if there was any connection. I think the New York

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<v Speaker 1>Times said there was a Colonel ichabad B. Crane who

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<v Speaker 1>was alive at the same time as Irving, who was

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<v Speaker 1>a marine. Uh enlisted in eighteen o nine and served

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<v Speaker 1>for forty five years in the Marines. But they really

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<v Speaker 1>don't know if they met each other, or if that

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<v Speaker 1>name was just sort of a weird coincidence. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think it was a coincidence. Um. Apparently Washington Irving was

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of a collector of weird Yankee names. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>and one of his stories he mentioned an actual New

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<v Speaker 1>Yorker named preserved Fish. But I think they would have

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<v Speaker 1>pronounced it preserved fish. But it's preserved fish when you

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<v Speaker 1>see it written down. Um, And so they were all.

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<v Speaker 1>The other kind of bit of of info that that

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<v Speaker 1>connects them is that they were both stationed at Fort Pike,

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<v Speaker 1>I believe around the same time. So they may not

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<v Speaker 1>have ever met, but um, Washington Irving probably did find

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<v Speaker 1>the names, Like I am using that at some point. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's, uh, you know, there've been stories of headless

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<v Speaker 1>horsemen through the years. I think the Grim Brothers, which

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<v Speaker 1>we did a pretty great episode on two years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Yea was that a two parter. Well, one was on

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<v Speaker 1>the Grim Brothers, the other was on folk Tales in general,

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<v Speaker 1>I think yeah, yeah, Um, they wrote about headless horsemen

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<v Speaker 1>other writers in other countries. I think, um, in Holland

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<v Speaker 1>and I think in Ireland there were other legends of

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<v Speaker 1>headless horsemen. So it's definitely something that he you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he had his influences. Uh. He was also a friend

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<v Speaker 1>of Sir Walter Scott, and in Walter Scott wrote The Chase,

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<v Speaker 1>which was really just sort of a adaptation of a

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<v Speaker 1>German poem The Wild Huntsman by Gottfried Berger. Uh, and

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<v Speaker 1>this was I think there was a headless horseman in

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<v Speaker 1>that too, right, Yes, there was. He UM had he

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<v Speaker 1>was chased around by the hounds of hell for all

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<v Speaker 1>eternity basically, So it wasn't like an entirely new thing.

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<v Speaker 1>But one of the things, one of the other things

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<v Speaker 1>that makes it so creepy is that Washington Irving took

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<v Speaker 1>a piece of actual like history of local New upstate

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<v Speaker 1>New York history, UM and used that as the basis

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<v Speaker 1>for his headless horseman. He said, it was a Heshian mercenary,

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<v Speaker 1>and there were Hessian mercenaries fighting in the Revolutionary War

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<v Speaker 1>alongside the English. Wasn't it the English they were fighting with?

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was. Yeah. Well, actually they're probably fighting

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<v Speaker 1>on either side because they were mercenaries and they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>really care. But um, in this case, there was a

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<v Speaker 1>Hessian mercenary who, at the Battle of White Plains around

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<v Speaker 1>Halloween in seventeen seventy six, got his head taken off

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<v Speaker 1>by a cannon ball. And it was such a remarkable,

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<v Speaker 1>unlikely event that UM people wrote down in their journals

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<v Speaker 1>about this. I can imagine the entire battle stopped and

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<v Speaker 1>everybody went over and looked because that was just such

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<v Speaker 1>a nuts so thing that happened. But that was an

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<v Speaker 1>actual event, and Washington Irving used that as the basis

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<v Speaker 1>for his Headless Horsemen. That's right. Uh. And all of

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<v Speaker 1>this to say is that maybe one reason why it

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<v Speaker 1>was so popular to begin with, because he was weaving

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<v Speaker 1>in these stories of folklore that other people had known,

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<v Speaker 1>all these real places from the region that people knew

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<v Speaker 1>were real places, and that probably made it just a

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<v Speaker 1>bit more interesting than your average ghost story for the time. Definitely,

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<v Speaker 1>And it is a great ghost story, everybody, So go

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<v Speaker 1>read it. Okay, Okay, are you asking me? Okay, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>looking for some support here. Yeah, everybody go read it.

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<v Speaker 1>Do what Josh says. So, since Chuck said that everybody short,

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<v Speaker 1>stuff is out. Stuff you should know is a production

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<v Speaker 1>of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio,

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