1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: there's chucking. Yes, Davis here in spirit. I don't think 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: I even need to say it. Maybe next time i'll 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: say it is when Dave's actually here. How about that 5 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: he's a disembodied spirit. That's right, chuck, nicely done. Because 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: this is a Halloween esque, halloween ish, nay Halloween e 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: short Stuff episode. Yeah, in October, we try and throw 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: and throw you a couple of bones from the skeleton 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: dangling from behind you. That's right, nicely so dumb, I know, 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: I think we explained Jack Lanards at some point. We 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: didn't know we did. We did a Halloween episode that 12 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: we could either redo or re release. That was good. Yeah, 13 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 1: but we definitely talked about Jack Lenerds in that one. 14 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: I think, well, we're gonna do it again, okay, uh yeah, 15 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: because I don't really recall the story. But the whole 16 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,959 Speaker 1: idea of Jack o Lanards is that they're based on 17 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: a Irish legend of a man named Stingy Jack who's fascinating, 18 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: but you probably wouldn't have wanted to be friends with him. No, 19 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: not Stingy Jack, which is how I read it in 20 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: my head. Four times until just now when I said 21 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,639 Speaker 1: stingy No, I finally figured it out, because it's pretty 22 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: obvious where he gets that name. But it was still 23 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: very thick headed and saying stingy Jack in my head. 24 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: But Stingy well, he was stingy because his legend has it. Uh, 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: Stingy Jack was hanging around, said the devil comes walking 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: by and he says, hey, devil, let's go have a 27 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: cool one. You could use that. And the devil said, sure, 28 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: let's do it. So Stingy Jack at the end of this, uh, 29 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: this little drinking sessh says, I'm a little light devil, 30 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: I don't have Uh, I forgot my wallet. If you 31 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: could help me out here, uh, turn yourself into a 32 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: coin so we can pay and get out of here. 33 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: So the Devil's like, all right, no harm, no foul, 34 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: I'll turn myself into a coin. And then Jack says, 35 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: I've got you. I'm gonna put you in my pocket 36 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: and I'm going to put you next to that silver 37 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: cross and you were just going to stay there as 38 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 1: a little coin. Sorry devil. Yeah. No word on how 39 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: he got away without paying the drinks in the first place, 40 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: but he got his drinks, and he got to keep 41 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: the devil coin. Uh. And then finally the devil's like, 42 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: come on, dude, I have things to do. Please let 43 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: me out of your pocket. And stingey Jack said, okay, 44 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: I'll let you out, but you have to promise not 45 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: to bug me for a full year. And the devil said, fine, whatever, 46 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: I don't care, and Sol said, you invited me for drinks, right, 47 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 1: He said, well, I didn't realize you're gonna bother me. Um. 48 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: So the devil, being a fine upstanding devil, uh, said 49 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: I will honor that agreement and left Jack alone. Uh. 50 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: Sometime around the next year, Jack got in touch with 51 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: this old friend devil, who by this time I had 52 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: forgotten that Jack had kept him trapped as a coin 53 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: in his pocket. Said hey, you want to hang again? 54 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: Devil said sure, And I guess somehow stinge Jack got 55 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: it in the devil's head that the devil should climb 56 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: a tree and pick him a piece of fruit. And 57 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: that didn't go according to plane as far as the 58 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: devil's concerned. There did it? No, it didn't, because the 59 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: devil climbs up the tree and checks like, I got 60 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: you again, devil. Look, I've carved the sign of the 61 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: Cross into the tree bark, so you can't come down, 62 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,839 Speaker 1: and um, how about this, don't bother me for ten years? Right? 63 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: And not only that, if I die, you can't take 64 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: my soul. And the Devil's like, good Lord, this guy 65 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: really drives a hard bargain. But okay, fine, I'll agree 66 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: to all these terms. And not only will I agree 67 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: to him, being the devil, a fine upstanding devil that 68 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: I am, I will honor these terms. I will not 69 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: go back on my word. And he didn't. He didn't 70 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: because Sinci Jack died and the devil didn't try to 71 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: take his soul. As a matter of fact, wouldn't let 72 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: him in Hell, and God wouldn't let him in heaven. 73 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: So Cinci Jack was left to roam the earth. That's right. 74 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: And if you're wondering what all the us rigamarole has 75 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: to do with Jack A Lanard's, he was sent off 76 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: in the dark, had, like you said, couldn't go to heaven, 77 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: couldn't go to hell, stuck in between, and had a 78 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: burning coal to light his way, and he put that 79 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: coal into a carved out turn up. And he was 80 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: known by the oirish as Jack of the lantern. Yes, 81 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: but the Irish never said the word of in their 82 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: entire lives, the entire history of the Irish. So that's 83 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: where we get Jack a lantern, that's right. Uh. And 84 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: that turnip. Depending on where you were in the world 85 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: and this legend moved around, that turn up might become 86 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: a potato, it might become a beat if you're in 87 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: England or or if you're in the United States. One thing, 88 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: we have a lot of us pumpkins. Yes, so when 89 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: you're carving a Jack o lantern, you're paying homage to 90 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: a double dealing satan advantage taking uh Irish guy named 91 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: Stingia Jack. Okay, I love it. So there's part one. 92 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: We're gonna take a break and we're gonna mix it 93 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: up just a little bit and go tangentially. Tangentially that's 94 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: absolutely right, Jack Leonard related right after this. Okay, Chuck, 95 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: we're back and we're talking about now nothing that has 96 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: to do with check. Well, I guess a little bit 97 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: like you said, tangentially um one of the better, well 98 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: not better, one of the first ghost stories in American history, 99 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: I think one of the I mean, there's of course 100 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: been a lot of great ghost stories since. But the 101 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: legend of Sleepy Hollow is great. It is great. But 102 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: if you've read other Washington Irving short stories, he's actually 103 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: written much scarier stuff than that. That's a little more 104 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: tongue in cheek than some of the other scarier stuff 105 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: he's written. All right, fair enough, it's fine though. Uh So, 106 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: the legend of Sleepy Hollow concerns the Headless Horseman. And 107 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: I think, if you're a kid um, even if all 108 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: you ever saw was that Disney cartoon, the idea of 109 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: the Headless Horseman is utterly terrifying. Yes, totally, absolutely, one 110 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: of the more terrifying figures in American history American lore agreed. Uh. 111 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: And it takes place in the real Sleepy Hollow in 112 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: Westchester County, New York. And it is about a new 113 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: man in town, the sort of lanky, goofy schoolmaster, Ichabod Crane, 114 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: who is in love with in courts Katrina or all 115 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: thinks he's in love with Katrina von Tassel. Uh. And 116 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: when he is rebuff at a party by Katrina, he 117 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: that headless horseman appears seemingly out of nowhere and chases 118 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: him down. Uh and he vanishes. Yeah, Kabob Crane has 119 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: never found or heard from. Um, there's that jack O 120 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: Lanard because you know he's he throws that flaming jack 121 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: O Lanard in the cartoon right. Well, in the story, 122 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: the headless horseman throws his head and connects with Akabod 123 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: Crane's head and knocks him off of his horse. And um, 124 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: all that's found near the spot the next day is 125 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: a smashed pumpkin. So it's not entirely clear whether it 126 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: was a headless horseman or somebody playing a prank or whatever. 127 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: But um, if it was all in Iikabod Crane's imagination. 128 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: But the upshot is is that he was never heard 129 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: from again, which is pretty mysterious. Um. The thing that's 130 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: so cool about the legend of Sleepy Hollow though, and 131 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: what makes it so interesting is that Washington Irving, like 132 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: kind of inner wove fact and fiction to come up 133 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: with this tail um quite brilliantly. Actually. I think it's 134 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why it is so so creepy 135 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: is because you hear like, oh wait, there's a real 136 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: town called Sleepy Hollow in New York and stuff like that. 137 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: You know, I wonder if you go to sleepy hollow. 138 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: If there's a any sort of touristy things you can do, oh, 139 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: I would guess. So I wonder what they do. I 140 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: don't know, but I guarantee there's a there's a headless horseman. Yeah. 141 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: And I'm not sure if it's a thriving tourist industry 142 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: but all but it's a pretty respectable tourist industry they 143 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: got going on there, especially this time of year. Yeah, 144 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: but you're right, he wove a lot of real things 145 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: in their real locations. The old Dutch church, um, the churchyard, 146 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: Major Andre's Tree. Uh. There may have been a real 147 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: Ichabod Crane. I mean there was. We just don't know 148 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: if there was any connection. I think the New York 149 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: Times said there was a Colonel ichabad B. Crane who 150 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: was alive at the same time as Irving, who was 151 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: a marine. Uh enlisted in eighteen o nine and served 152 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: for forty five years in the Marines. But they really 153 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: don't know if they met each other, or if that 154 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: name was just sort of a weird coincidence. I don't 155 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: think it was a coincidence. Um. Apparently Washington Irving was 156 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: a bit of a collector of weird Yankee names. Um, 157 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: and one of his stories he mentioned an actual New 158 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: Yorker named preserved Fish. But I think they would have 159 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: pronounced it preserved fish. But it's preserved fish when you 160 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: see it written down. Um, And so they were all. 161 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: The other kind of bit of of info that that 162 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: connects them is that they were both stationed at Fort Pike, 163 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: I believe around the same time. So they may not 164 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: have ever met, but um, Washington Irving probably did find 165 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: the names, Like I am using that at some point. Yeah, 166 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: and he's, uh, you know, there've been stories of headless 167 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: horsemen through the years. I think the Grim Brothers, which 168 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: we did a pretty great episode on two years ago. 169 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: Yea was that a two parter. Well, one was on 170 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: the Grim Brothers, the other was on folk Tales in general, 171 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: I think yeah, yeah, Um, they wrote about headless horsemen 172 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: other writers in other countries. I think, um, in Holland 173 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: and I think in Ireland there were other legends of 174 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: headless horsemen. So it's definitely something that he you know, 175 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: he had his influences. Uh. He was also a friend 176 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: of Sir Walter Scott, and in Walter Scott wrote The Chase, 177 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: which was really just sort of a adaptation of a 178 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: German poem The Wild Huntsman by Gottfried Berger. Uh, and 179 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: this was I think there was a headless horseman in 180 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: that too, right, Yes, there was. He UM had he 181 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: was chased around by the hounds of hell for all 182 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: eternity basically, So it wasn't like an entirely new thing. 183 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: But one of the things, one of the other things 184 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: that makes it so creepy is that Washington Irving took 185 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: a piece of actual like history of local New upstate 186 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: New York history, UM and used that as the basis 187 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: for his headless horseman. He said, it was a Heshian mercenary, 188 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: and there were Hessian mercenaries fighting in the Revolutionary War 189 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 1: alongside the English. Wasn't it the English they were fighting with? 190 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: I think it was. Yeah. Well, actually they're probably fighting 191 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: on either side because they were mercenaries and they didn't 192 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: really care. But um, in this case, there was a 193 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: Hessian mercenary who, at the Battle of White Plains around 194 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: Halloween in seventeen seventy six, got his head taken off 195 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: by a cannon ball. And it was such a remarkable, 196 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 1: unlikely event that UM people wrote down in their journals 197 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: about this. I can imagine the entire battle stopped and 198 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 1: everybody went over and looked because that was just such 199 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: a nuts so thing that happened. But that was an 200 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: actual event, and Washington Irving used that as the basis 201 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: for his Headless Horsemen. That's right. Uh. And all of 202 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: this to say is that maybe one reason why it 203 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: was so popular to begin with, because he was weaving 204 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: in these stories of folklore that other people had known, 205 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: all these real places from the region that people knew 206 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,080 Speaker 1: were real places, and that probably made it just a 207 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: bit more interesting than your average ghost story for the time. Definitely, 208 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: And it is a great ghost story, everybody, So go 209 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: read it. Okay, Okay, are you asking me? Okay, I'm 210 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: looking for some support here. Yeah, everybody go read it. 211 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: Do what Josh says. So, since Chuck said that everybody short, 212 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: stuff is out. Stuff you should know is a production 213 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio, 214 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 215 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.