Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: woen inum, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef invest start
Speaker 1: changing it with the Bell Cast. Hey, Jamie, I have
Speaker 1: to tell you something. Oh yeah, what what is it?
Speaker 1: You know how we will resume touring and doing live shows,
Speaker 1: you know, when it's safe. Yeah, of course. Well I
Speaker 1: told everyone that we would be doing them completely nude.
Speaker 1: Is that okay? No, no, But we have to give
Speaker 1: them something that the other podcast hosts don't. We have
Speaker 1: to go the full Monty. I okay, fine, you know what,
Speaker 1: you know what, but only if it's shot from the back.
Speaker 1: Only if it's shot from the back, And then yes,
Speaker 1: I will do it. Yeah, we will just do our
Speaker 1: shows with our butts facing the audience. Wouldn't be the
Speaker 1: first time, it would be the first time in backtel
Speaker 1: cast history that I wonder what if we just like
Speaker 1: launched into a tour announcement. After that, we're like, so
Speaker 1: does that sound exciting? And guess what, Chicago, We're finally
Speaker 1: coming to your city. We're coming to your city. There,
Speaker 1: you know what I in that that scene, I was like,
Speaker 1: they should bail on him, they should bail on him.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of times where I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: I get why gas is is our is our is
Speaker 1: our he's our protagonist. We're supposed to root for him.
Speaker 1: But there were a few times where I'm like, guys,
Speaker 1: you've crossed several lines and I'm seeing everyone's points very clearly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he makes some choices. Certain choices were made in gazes, life,
Speaker 1: choices were made. Welcome to the Back to Happy Birthday, Caitlin,
Speaker 1: it's your birthday episode. Thank you so much. I'm so
Speaker 1: delighted to be doing this movie. This is one of
Speaker 1: my favorites. I love the full Monty. It's it's nice
Speaker 1: to be having a birthday, something, something to look forward to,
Speaker 1: some happy I feel like it is the is the
Speaker 1: nice thing for I mean, we're we're you know then
Speaker 1: that's very regional, but but here it's you know, these
Speaker 1: birthdays are better than the last birthdays, and that's yes, great.
Speaker 1: So yeah, this is our podcast, The Bechtel Has, by
Speaker 1: the way, and uh, this is our podcast where we
Speaker 1: examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechtel
Speaker 1: Tests simply as a jumping off point, Jamie, is my birthday.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like you know saying what the Bechtel
Speaker 1: test is that you do it literally? Fine, Yes, I
Speaker 1: can tell you that. The Bechtel test is a media
Speaker 1: matric invented by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the
Speaker 1: Bechdel Wallace test for our purposes, to people of a
Speaker 1: marginalized gender with names have a two line or more
Speaker 1: discussion about something other than a man, and we request
Speaker 1: going forward that that the conversation be meaningful in the plot,
Speaker 1: that it has some sort of effect on what happens,
Speaker 1: and it's not just a throwaway exchange. Okay, yes, So
Speaker 1: that's the test, and this is the podcast and the
Speaker 1: movie again is the full Monty, Jamie, what's your relationship
Speaker 1: with this movie? It has to do with you? It's
Speaker 1: literally I had not I'd heard of this movie quite
Speaker 1: a bit. I didn't really know what it was about.
Speaker 1: And then a couple of Christmases ago, because we keep
Speaker 1: Christmas together and uh and yeah you you you turned
Speaker 1: it on and I have we loved it. There you go.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad and it was it was fun too,
Speaker 1: because I mean, I think we want. We like kind
Speaker 1: of half watched it on Christmas and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: this is really heartwarming. And then we watched Paddington Too,
Speaker 1: which was all of them were heartwarming. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: And now it's officially the greatest movie of all time.
Speaker 1: I know it's by Citizen paing take that you turned,
Speaker 1: you know what. I think that we can now double
Speaker 1: down on never covering Citizen Game because now it's the
Speaker 1: worst movie ever made. I think that's how that works, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a cyclical. It's a cyclical. Once you leave the top,
Speaker 1: you have actually been brought down to dead last um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, My my history of it is you
Speaker 1: showed it to me um over a holiday, and I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it and it was really interesting to watch
Speaker 1: for podcast purposes. There's so much to talk about. Yes,
Speaker 1: what's your history? My mom introduced me to this movie
Speaker 1: when I was in high school. He kept renting and
Speaker 1: raving about it and saying, Caitlin, this is such a
Speaker 1: good movie. I think you'll really like it. And I
Speaker 1: was resistant at first because I was like a thing
Speaker 1: that my mom likes, there's no way it's good or cool.
Speaker 1: And then I watched it Finally, I was probably a
Speaker 1: sophomore in high school and I saw it. I think
Speaker 1: she and I watched it together and I loved it,
Speaker 1: So my mom was right. Turns out my mom has
Speaker 1: pretty good taste in media at least, and I've loved
Speaker 1: it ever since. I watched this movie several times a year.
Speaker 1: I've seen it probably like forty times now, but I
Speaker 1: haven't watched it through the Bechtel cast lens until until now.
Speaker 1: Uh there's yeah, there there's I think for indie movie,
Speaker 1: there's a hell of a to talk about. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: there sure is. Should I just dive in to the
Speaker 1: recap and yeah, let's go for it. It's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's your birthday. Lead the way, Oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: will guide you. Okay. So we open on a seventies
Speaker 1: era news reel about Sheffield, England, which I learned was
Speaker 1: like a real, like an actual like promotional movie made
Speaker 1: about Sheffield. It's like a classic come to our industrial town.
Speaker 1: There's things going on here, we swear. It feels kind
Speaker 1: of familiar, and it's you're also like, this is all
Speaker 1: lies right, and it is indeed about how Sheffield is
Speaker 1: an industrial hot spot with an amazing nightlife and cool
Speaker 1: things to do, and also it manufactures steal. Then we
Speaker 1: cut to twenty five years later, the steel mill has closed.
Speaker 1: We meet Gas, which is Robert Carlyle and his pal
Speaker 1: Dave Mark Addie, who are unemployed steel mill workers. Gaz's
Speaker 1: son Nathan is a boy Nivee, and I like, I, um,
Speaker 1: this is for for Americans. Uh, watching this movie for
Speaker 1: the first time, You're gonna want to have the subtitles
Speaker 1: on more so than usual because I was like there
Speaker 1: was whole I was like, holy knife. Even with the subtitles,
Speaker 1: there's so much slang, like Yorkshire slang, that you you
Speaker 1: have to do a lot of googling. There is also
Speaker 1: some did you notice this? Um I I watched I
Speaker 1: was watching this on Amazon Prime. Fun Jeff Bezos, but
Speaker 1: I was watching it on Amazon Prime. But there were
Speaker 1: like little phrases that were it seems like they were
Speaker 1: a d ard to be Americanized, but in the subtitles
Speaker 1: they remained English. Yeah, there was like they changed like
Speaker 1: an English credit card to like master card or like
Speaker 1: the little things like that. I was like, oh, they like,
Speaker 1: I feel like that's like TBS syndrome or something. When
Speaker 1: it was like oh. When they started syndicating this movie
Speaker 1: in America, they changed things so that it would make
Speaker 1: sense to our puny brains, right. But then there's also
Speaker 1: large swaths of dialogue where they say something like um,
Speaker 1: there's now now, which means nothing, or oh, I know
Speaker 1: more than some chuffin woman, or um, which is a
Speaker 1: very feminist thing to say, or don't get a benny on.
Speaker 1: I never I never cracked that one. What is that?
Speaker 1: I think it just means like it's like kind of
Speaker 1: like don't get your panties in a bunch maybe, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: I did consult my friend Jake. Shout out Jake, who
Speaker 1: lived in Sheffield for a couple of years, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I was like, Jake, tell me, because yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he went to to university their Uni. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But he was like, I honestly have not heard a
Speaker 1: lot of this slang. So I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was like nineties era slang that had like kind of
Speaker 1: gone out of style by the time you lived there,
Speaker 1: could have been really relegated to like working class slang.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of possibilities. My favorite, my favorite turn
Speaker 1: of phrase happens really early in the movie when they're
Speaker 1: walking towards the Chippendale show and Gas is like, what
Speaker 1: is this and Nathan is like, it's them Chippendale efforts,
Speaker 1: And it's like, what an interesting way to say that.
Speaker 1: I want to start calling all performances efforts. Um. I
Speaker 1: feel like it's a more honest way of referring to
Speaker 1: most performance like like our upcoming live shows, the Bectel
Speaker 1: cast efforts. Yeah, were gonna start calling them our live efforts.
Speaker 1: And you know if you don't like them that we
Speaker 1: didn't say you're gonna like them. We said it was
Speaker 1: gonna there was gonna be effort put in. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: were gonna try. That's all. That's all we can do.
Speaker 1: Oh goodness. Um. Yeah. So there's a lot of very
Speaker 1: specific regional slang in the movie that makes some of
Speaker 1: the dialogue a bit difficult to understand for Americans and
Speaker 1: I'm sure other groups. But it's fun, but it's it's
Speaker 1: fun to decode. Yes indeed. Okay, So where were we, um, Gaz,
Speaker 1: Dave and Nathan are all in this steel mill trying
Speaker 1: to steal an old girder or like an I I
Speaker 1: what do we like? An ib my guess that would
Speaker 1: have was what I would know that as um, yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds about right, yeah, so that they can like
Speaker 1: sell it for scrap metal because they're unemployed and they
Speaker 1: have very little money. Right on the way back home,
Speaker 1: they pass a working men's club basically like a venue
Speaker 1: a strip club where these Chippendale efforts are happening. So
Speaker 1: it's like it's like ladies night at the men's club
Speaker 1: essentially right right, because it's for women only, and Dave's
Speaker 1: his wife, Jean is there. Gas and Nathan sneak into
Speaker 1: the club. Jean and her friends come into the restroom.
Speaker 1: They overhear Jean talking about how like Dave has given
Speaker 1: up on their relationship, and then someone peas on a
Speaker 1: wall deciding very exciting. Then we see Gas and Dave
Speaker 1: at job club, which is like an unemployment office. Um,
Speaker 1: they're trying to get jobs. Their former boss Gerald that's
Speaker 1: Tom Wilkinson is there and they're talking about the strip
Speaker 1: club and they're making remarks about sort of like how
Speaker 1: they feel obsolete as men, but also like oh, there
Speaker 1: were so many women there and they were paying money
Speaker 1: to see men dance around. Then Gas gets noticed that
Speaker 1: he's going to lose joint custody of Nathan if he
Speaker 1: doesn't pay child support, which he can't afford to do.
Speaker 1: This is a moment that in a in a very
Speaker 1: different way. But this specific character of Barry, who's like
Speaker 1: the new dad in town, he reminds me so much
Speaker 1: of Neil from the Santa Claus franchise. I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: the new dad in town. I know this character. It's
Speaker 1: a very like it's I mean, it's a it's a
Speaker 1: stock character that's existed for a long time, like so
Speaker 1: and so's new significant other and they're like villainized in
Speaker 1: a way that is probably not fair. Uh, but I
Speaker 1: feel like in the nineties it was such a spec
Speaker 1: civic vibe that it was like and also he's got
Speaker 1: a lot of hair, and he's wearing a sweater like
Speaker 1: it was a really specific aesthetic of like, if you
Speaker 1: are the new dad, you are wearing like a knit sweater,
Speaker 1: a cable knit sweater. This was also carry you Else's
Speaker 1: character in Liar Liar, a big movie of my childhood.
Speaker 1: I have never They're like, I just have never seen it.
Speaker 1: Jim Carrey and Adam Sandler. Cannon is like completely eluded
Speaker 1: me as a youth, probably for the best I think
Speaker 1: I'm better off for it. But but there are you know,
Speaker 1: some some basic uh you know, party talk literacy that
Speaker 1: I just can't I can't keep up is liar, liar? Good? Um,
Speaker 1: I have not seen it since I was probably twelve,
Speaker 1: so all right, but I don't imagine it holds up
Speaker 1: very well. Reasonable, But I loved it when I was twelve.
Speaker 1: Oh what if everything we love when we were twelve?
Speaker 1: Howld up? You know I'd still be watching rent it,
Speaker 1: you know. Anyways, Anyways, so Gaz argues with his ex
Speaker 1: wife Mandy about this soul custody situation, and then he
Speaker 1: gets the idea to put on a strip show as
Speaker 1: a way of earning money to pay child support, which
Speaker 1: he pitches to Dave, who is like, um no, this
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like a good idea. Then they come upon Lumper,
Speaker 1: a security guard at the steel mill who they rescue
Speaker 1: from a suicide attempt, and they befriend him and they
Speaker 1: all start hanging out and they rope him into this
Speaker 1: strip show. That scene is very I mean, we'll talk
Speaker 1: about it, but that scene is very sweet. Where he's
Speaker 1: where they're like where, it's it's such a I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's it's fun watching, like the the way that bonding
Speaker 1: happens in this movie of like where they're all kind
Speaker 1: of yelling at each other still, but they're trying to
Speaker 1: be friends to each other. It's very sweet where they're like,
Speaker 1: where are your mates now? And he's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: like why are we yelling? But you know, I appreciate
Speaker 1: the sentiment. Yeah, And then Gas is still on about
Speaker 1: this strip show. He can't let it go, and Dave
Speaker 1: is kind of warming up to the idea. Nathan is
Speaker 1: very embarrassed by his dad. Well, Nathan just shouldn't be
Speaker 1: around whatever is going on here. That's like my main
Speaker 1: thing with Gas, like the well talk in general, I
Speaker 1: don't think that gazes. Ex wife Mandy is demonized really,
Speaker 1: which is good because I don't really I very much
Speaker 1: see where she's coming from. Um, it seems like her
Speaker 1: son is repeatedly being put in pretty unsafe, irresponsible situations.
Speaker 1: You're not wrong, Yeah, yeah, So he's there, He, like guys,
Speaker 1: is trying to do a strip tease just to like
Speaker 1: see how it goes. He's terrible at it, it's embarrassed,
Speaker 1: he runs away. Yes, It's so it's very funny, and
Speaker 1: they realize that they can't really dance and they don't
Speaker 1: know what they're doing. So they approach their old boss, Gerald,
Speaker 1: who does like ballroom dance, and they asked him to
Speaker 1: join their group. Gerald's whole thing is that he hasn't
Speaker 1: told his wife that he's lost his job because he's
Speaker 1: too proud um and he eventually agrees to join the group.
Speaker 1: Then they hold auditions to add a couple more men
Speaker 1: to their troop. They recruit Horse who's got some good
Speaker 1: dance moves, and guy who has a large penis, and
Speaker 1: that's what he has to contribute to the group. What's
Speaker 1: the phrase that's like the lunchbox has landed. I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's such a fun line of dialogue where I'm like,
Speaker 1: out of context of like, this could mean anything, but
Speaker 1: in context, I'm like, I know exactly what he's talking about.
Speaker 1: Do you remember on my Space when you could have
Speaker 1: just like a little like tagline in your profile. That
Speaker 1: was my tagline for the entire time I had my Space,
Speaker 1: The lunchbox has landed. Oh my god, that is on it?
Speaker 1: That is that holds up. I feel like mine were
Speaker 1: just like bright eyes lyrics. Mine were pretty embarrassing and
Speaker 1: we're like I wish I could write a perfect son
Speaker 1: it like embarrassing. Oh goodness, Okay. They then steal a
Speaker 1: copy of Flashdance and watch it for inspiration. We gotta
Speaker 1: cover Flashdance on the podcast at some point. By the way,
Speaker 1: there's so many levels of things I want to talk
Speaker 1: about with Flash Dance because it's directed by the same
Speaker 1: guy who directed Lolita. There's it's an Adrianne. Holy sh it.
Speaker 1: I did not know that it was his first big movie.
Speaker 1: How wild? How did he? I mean, I haven't watched
Speaker 1: it in a couple of years, but I feel like
Speaker 1: Flashdance is like cool with some feminist themes, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden Lolita, like, how did things go
Speaker 1: so wrong? Well, I I I could connect the dots there.
Speaker 1: I think I think it's because once he did um
Speaker 1: Fatal Attraction, he was like, oh, I'm just never it.
Speaker 1: He made so much money, um, you know, making women
Speaker 1: look um horrible that I think he's like, let's just
Speaker 1: roll with this. That's my theory. But also I just
Speaker 1: don't I think he's just kind of mediocre. But Flashdance itself,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it in like ten years, but I
Speaker 1: really liked watching it. I just I associate that movie
Speaker 1: with sweating because you just it makes you want to
Speaker 1: get up dance. It's true anyway, so we'll cover it someday.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, they're watching flash Dance. They start putting
Speaker 1: together a choreographed routine, which they're all pretty bad at.
Speaker 1: Then there's like this training montage. Then they come upon
Speaker 1: a couple of women who they know, and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: what do you guys have to offer that these real
Speaker 1: chippendale dancers can't? And Gas is like, well, this lot
Speaker 1: will go all the way the full monty and we're like,
Speaker 1: that's the name of the movie. No, And then they
Speaker 1: say it back and forth three different times, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's really satisfying. But also, Gas, you gotta check in
Speaker 1: with your friends. It's true, yeah, Gas problematic. But now
Speaker 1: they have no choice but to do full nudity because
Speaker 1: it has been announced to those two women who they're like, well,
Speaker 1: there's such gossips that they'll tell everyone. Also, while the
Speaker 1: this is all happening, um, we learned that most of
Speaker 1: the men have something that they're like insecure about or
Speaker 1: dealing with in their personal lives. For example, Dave is
Speaker 1: having body image issues, which is leading to like a
Speaker 1: sexual slump with Gene. He's not sure how to talk
Speaker 1: about it with her. She doesn't know how to bring
Speaker 1: it up with him. It's one of those things. Um
Speaker 1: Horse is insecure about the size of his penis. Gerald
Speaker 1: gets unexpected erections and he's worried that it'll happen when
Speaker 1: he's on stage during the show. Then they do a
Speaker 1: dress rehearsal in the old steel mill in front of
Speaker 1: horses family, which this is one of my favorite scenes
Speaker 1: in the movie. It's so funny. The reaction shots are
Speaker 1: truly priceless. Yeah, Dave is not there because he's having
Speaker 1: second thoughts. He's gotten a job as a security guard
Speaker 1: at as Does, a same store he shoplifted right Yes.
Speaker 1: During the dress rehearsal, they get caught by the Like
Speaker 1: Factory security guard and they get arrested. Because of this,
Speaker 1: Gas can no longer see his son until he like
Speaker 1: has a meeting with Like Social Services. Also, Guy and
Speaker 1: Lamper had like fled the scene when the security guard
Speaker 1: shows up. They run off to Lamper's house where they
Speaker 1: have a little moment with each other. I forgot about
Speaker 1: that why. I don't know if I remember that for
Speaker 1: my first feeling, and I was like, oh wow, yeah cute.
Speaker 1: Then Gerald's wife finds out that he has been lying
Speaker 1: about being unemployed this whole time, and she kicks him
Speaker 1: out of the house. Lamper's mom passes away. Dave's wife
Speaker 1: thinks that he's cheating on her because she finds his
Speaker 1: like stripper thong and stuff. Um, so this is what
Speaker 1: we would call the low point. But Dave is like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm a stripper, but I'm not going to go through
Speaker 1: with it because no one would want to see me.
Speaker 1: And she's like, well, you should do it because I
Speaker 1: would watch you. So now that's seen made me cry.
Speaker 1: It's really they love each other, but they don't know
Speaker 1: how to communicate. And then it's time for the big show.
Speaker 1: The house is packed, They've sold hundreds of tickets. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, it looks not on, like they have a
Speaker 1: venue that is not on like venues that we do
Speaker 1: where you're like it just it's a bar, but large,
Speaker 1: it's it's it may be nostalgic for rooms full of
Speaker 1: people I know, I know. And then Dave shows up
Speaker 1: because he has decided to do the show after all.
Speaker 1: Gas has some last minute second thoughts because there are
Speaker 1: men in the audience. But then Nathan is like, come on, Dad,
Speaker 1: go strip. Nathan's like, I gave you my only money,
Speaker 1: you have to do it, and Gas is like, oh
Speaker 1: yeah right. So he goes out there, they do the show,
Speaker 1: they strip, they go the full Monty and then that's
Speaker 1: the end of the movie freeze frame, and it's, uh,
Speaker 1: what a treat, and that's the movie. Shall we take
Speaker 1: a break. Let's take a break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 1: And we're back, Yes, we are. Um. So, I think
Speaker 1: one of the things that I have always been like
Speaker 1: drawn to and attached to with this movie and this
Speaker 1: is something like that. I one of the reasons, like
Speaker 1: I wanted to start this podcast from the jump was
Speaker 1: that I was noticing that so many of my favorite
Speaker 1: movies were very like male centered and had male protagonists,
Speaker 1: and women were not prominent characters in a lot of
Speaker 1: the movies that I liked, because also that's most of
Speaker 1: what's available. But I I still tend to like gravitate
Speaker 1: towards stories about men that are like that, like, are
Speaker 1: not about toxic men, I guess or not. I mean,
Speaker 1: let's I'll throw one out there Paddington, Paddington's exactly famously
Speaker 1: unproblematic um star of the best movie ever made officially
Speaker 1: each ship orson Welles, which Citizen Kane very toxic man.
Speaker 1: Wait are you suggesting Randolph Hurst was a toxic person?
Speaker 1: I mean, we will never will never have this discussion
Speaker 1: because we're never gonna cover We're never going to cover
Speaker 1: this movie. But yes, so I appreciate stories about men
Speaker 1: that are about men who are like not using with
Speaker 1: toxic masculinity. And this is one of the things that
Speaker 1: drew me to this movie, where I mean, there are
Speaker 1: arguments to be made that like Guys does some like
Speaker 1: he does make some questionable choices. But what I always
Speaker 1: found so like interesting and compelling about this movie is
Speaker 1: that one of the major themes that gets explored is
Speaker 1: like the movie's exploration of toxic standards of masculinity and
Speaker 1: how those standards really affect men in negative ways, whether
Speaker 1: they are like beauty standards or the like expectation that
Speaker 1: men are supposed to be providers um or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: and how things that we tend to assume only affect women,
Speaker 1: like beauty standards, that is not the case. Like all
Speaker 1: these men are are affected by like Western standards of beauty.
Speaker 1: So that's like kind of one of the big things
Speaker 1: for me with this movie. I totally agree. I mean
Speaker 1: I think that, and like what what especially I what
Speaker 1: I like especially about this movie and we will, you know,
Speaker 1: go through all the stuff that didn't age as well.
Speaker 1: But the my favorite thing in the entire world is
Speaker 1: when which I think this movie does so like effortlessly
Speaker 1: for the most part, is like addresses like important issues,
Speaker 1: but not in a way that is like tragedy porn
Speaker 1: or bashing you over the head with it. Like it's
Speaker 1: it's both like presented honestly and realistically, and it's also
Speaker 1: just like funny and it I feel like that, I
Speaker 1: don't know, like it's just like the kinds of movies
Speaker 1: that I prefer to watch. And also I think that
Speaker 1: it's like they were able to access to to wide
Speaker 1: audience by making that choice here, where like I had
Speaker 1: no idea how small this movie was versus how successful
Speaker 1: it was. It like it was on a three point
Speaker 1: five million dollar budget and it made two hundred fifty
Speaker 1: eight million dollars in it's like absurd how successful it was.
Speaker 1: And I feel like because it's because of what you're
Speaker 1: describing of like the you know, not many movies that
Speaker 1: have and you know, there's a ba jillion movies that
Speaker 1: have a completely sis male cast um in terms of
Speaker 1: central characters, but almost none of them examine the pressures
Speaker 1: of masculinity. And I very much feel like we've talked
Speaker 1: about this before, like part of being uh feminist is
Speaker 1: examining masculinity and the effects that it has on on
Speaker 1: the people it's thrust upon. And also it's it focuses
Speaker 1: on the working class, which is like yet another a
Speaker 1: layer that you don't get very much, especially in comedy
Speaker 1: that is like centered around the working class. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, so often the working class is being punched
Speaker 1: down at. They might appear in comedies as a punchline,
Speaker 1: as a joke, but this is just like it's it's
Speaker 1: just very matter of factly, like we're in a working
Speaker 1: class community that it has been you know, like devastated
Speaker 1: in a way that many industrial towns have been um
Speaker 1: particularly in this Like I did a little little history dive.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is like, you know, but
Speaker 1: that happens virtually everywhere, Like everyone knows of a place
Speaker 1: where this I don't know my hometown used to be
Speaker 1: shoe city. If you look at it used to be
Speaker 1: shoe city and guess what, no more shoes Now there's
Speaker 1: there's a loan there's a loan shoe company left in Brockton.
Speaker 1: If you want to, uh, you know, go online too.
Speaker 1: I think it's called foot Joy. Get some shoes from
Speaker 1: foot Joy. It's the last. But there used to be
Speaker 1: five trillions to factories in Brocton. But anyways, this is
Speaker 1: a very common thing in you know, in working class neighborhoods,
Speaker 1: and but you so rarely see working class people centered
Speaker 1: in movies. And it's like watching specifically working class men
Speaker 1: struggle with the pressures of masculinity on like all these
Speaker 1: different levels. It's it's so unique, and it's I don't know,
Speaker 1: like there's places where I'm like, oh, I wish they
Speaker 1: had gone further. I wish that this character had more
Speaker 1: of a complete arc. But I feel like even now
Speaker 1: it's like that I can't really there's there's not many
Speaker 1: movies that do this. I feel like it's there. There
Speaker 1: is like a lot of good examination of like working
Speaker 1: class issues in TV, but I don't think as much
Speaker 1: in in movies. Yeah, I think that is really cool
Speaker 1: and like you said it, um, these men are dealing
Speaker 1: with these pressures of toxic masculinity and acting in ways
Speaker 1: in some cases that were like mmmmm, I wish you
Speaker 1: wouldn't use that homophobic slur and I wish you wouldn't
Speaker 1: like cat call women who are like walking down the
Speaker 1: street and reading them there for instance. Yeah, so you know,
Speaker 1: they're their products of their environment, certainly. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: think the movie does, especially for like a movie in
Speaker 1: the nineties, does like a pretty good job of exploring
Speaker 1: those standards and those pressures without like you said, being
Speaker 1: very preachy and like bashing you over the head with it.
Speaker 1: It just sort of like it presents the thing. Could
Speaker 1: there have been more commentary maybe, but like any any
Speaker 1: movie could go further. But but it tackles a lot
Speaker 1: but doesn't necessarily go super far with any of it.
Speaker 1: But it's also not like, you know, it's mostly there
Speaker 1: to be a romp, which I appreciate it like it's
Speaker 1: a romp, But they touches on a number of issues
Speaker 1: surrounding toxic masculinity with that with like kind of so seamlessly.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, I'll take it. I also really appreciate
Speaker 1: it for in the casting of this movie that they
Speaker 1: cast characteristic, They cast like people who look like people
Speaker 1: and not like rigid because I feel like that, you know,
Speaker 1: even sometimes when we do get movies about about everyday people,
Speaker 1: they still look like movie stars who have the highest
Speaker 1: like you know, it's without body shaming movie stars, I guess,
Speaker 1: like you know, it's clear when you have the money
Speaker 1: to look like a movie star versus not, right, And
Speaker 1: I just I always appreciate when like it's a cast
Speaker 1: of of working class everyday people and it isn't like Noah'
Speaker 1: sentenao as like you know what I mean, right, It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: the movie is telling us that this is a working
Speaker 1: class person, but this actor clearly has a personal trainer
Speaker 1: that they spend like an hour or more a day with.
Speaker 1: They clearly spend like I don't know, fifty dollars a
Speaker 1: day on smoothies and like whatever green drinks that French people.
Speaker 1: This is a class war issue, what is? It's just
Speaker 1: like and we're so we're so conditioned to just boop
Speaker 1: through that cognitive dissonance, just like when you watch like
Speaker 1: a whatever, like a teen soap, you're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, teenagers are actually twenty eight years old, Like
Speaker 1: it's just a dissonant thing that exists in culture. But
Speaker 1: but when it actually isn't like that, and you get
Speaker 1: a cast of like people who look like people, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's like we talked about this in
Speaker 1: eighth grade, which is this is maybe way off topic,
Speaker 1: but just like how startling it is when you see uh,
Speaker 1: teenager playing and looking like a teenager because you're so
Speaker 1: used to seeing lady year old as teenagers. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like at thirty five, which I will be in
Speaker 1: a few days on my birthday, I will just be
Speaker 1: aging out of being able to play a teenager. Caitlyn,
Speaker 1: I feel like you could very much still get cast
Speaker 1: as like she's like she's a senior and I'm so
Speaker 1: scared of her. Thank you so much. Yeah, of course,
Speaker 1: I guess should we get into like individual characters and
Speaker 1: sort of like because each character has like a pretty
Speaker 1: specific like subplot that they are something that they're dealing with. Um,
Speaker 1: shall we start with our protagonist, Gas? Let's do it?
Speaker 1: Oh Gas, we need to talk so I mean as
Speaker 1: far as like positives, because there are there are some
Speaker 1: there are Yeah, I really appreciate that you have an
Speaker 1: example of a man who like loves being a dad.
Speaker 1: He loves his son more than anything in the world.
Speaker 1: He will go to great lengths he wants. I think
Speaker 1: he's cool so bad, Yes, And I feel like that's
Speaker 1: not a super common thing in media to see for
Speaker 1: like a blue color, working classman who like loves being
Speaker 1: a dad and who's who is like very attentive to
Speaker 1: his son and who very openly shows affection towards his son.
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that he also doesn't sometimes put his
Speaker 1: son in situations that are inappropriate, which he definitely does
Speaker 1: a lot. Yeah, but I like, I'm always just kind
Speaker 1: of struck with um when I when I watched like
Speaker 1: the relationship between Gas and Nathan, And while ultimately is
Speaker 1: this a movie about fathers and sons? It always is, Yes,
Speaker 1: it always is, But I like, don't even mind because
Speaker 1: I'm just like it works. Yeah, it's it feels earned.
Speaker 1: Despite his questionable parenting choices that he makes sometimes, I
Speaker 1: still really love that representation of fatherhood. I agree, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's so tricky because it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's part of it is like, well, if Gas was
Speaker 1: being a completely responsible parent. The movie probably wouldn't even
Speaker 1: happen the way that yes, because you wouldn't bring your
Speaker 1: underage child to uh like like where you're you're going
Speaker 1: to be completely naked, which is like that feels intuitive.
Speaker 1: Um that said, I mean it's and this isn't too
Speaker 1: excused the behavior, but I do think it's like, especially
Speaker 1: in movies where there are parents, I feel like sometimes
Speaker 1: kids are written not of the plot when it doesn't
Speaker 1: serve the plot. But it is like, you know that
Speaker 1: that's a very normal, especially because we know the financial
Speaker 1: circumstance that that Gas is in that it would make
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like can he afford childcare? Of course,
Speaker 1: not like he's going to have to have Nath with
Speaker 1: him wherever he is, And that is like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: One of one of the plot points with with Guys
Speaker 1: that really hit from me is is the custody issue.
Speaker 1: And I kind of I appreciated that the custody issue,
Speaker 1: at least the way I was watching it. And I'm
Speaker 1: always like, if I had goggles on, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, but I felt like very often, Um,
Speaker 1: and again I guess to go back to the Santa clause.
Speaker 1: Of course, mothers seeking custody of their children are often
Speaker 1: portrayed as being unreasonable, as being shrill, as being you know,
Speaker 1: like unfair essentially, as like takeing something. But the way
Speaker 1: that this custody situation is presented, I thought was like
Speaker 1: pretty thought full on both ends, where like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: how did you. I didn't feel like Mandy was really demonized,
Speaker 1: and I understood her frustration and I understood her concern
Speaker 1: like for sure, and then you also see completely why
Speaker 1: like Gas is so frustrated with the situation, and it
Speaker 1: is it's it is like they're being presented with this
Speaker 1: impossible situation by poverty, and it just it and and
Speaker 1: it's presented very like a matter of fact, and I
Speaker 1: mean it makes me sad because it's just like something
Speaker 1: that happens um in in poor families where it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I understand why, um why Mandy is like this is
Speaker 1: not a you know, responsible way for my son to
Speaker 1: be spending this time. And then you also were like, well,
Speaker 1: Gas can't afford to do much else at this time,
Speaker 1: and does that mean that he should have his son
Speaker 1: taken away from him? And you know, just all this
Speaker 1: ship that they're like really complicated issues that could have
Speaker 1: been really you know, melo dramatically harped upon, that are
Speaker 1: presented in a way that I felt was like empathetic
Speaker 1: and also not I don't know, I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: it was like too lighthearted, but I thought it was
Speaker 1: pretty well done. And also just like and this is
Speaker 1: like a I guess a through line of this movie
Speaker 1: of like all the all the all the men in
Speaker 1: the full Monty group is that the name of their
Speaker 1: group is it called the full Monty They I don't
Speaker 1: think they gave themselves. Ah no, it's hot metal when
Speaker 1: they're um. When they put up the posters advertising their show,
Speaker 1: they call themselves hot metal. I'm going to get you
Speaker 1: a poster like that for your house. Hot metal. Um.
Speaker 1: But but the way that like and this is and
Speaker 1: and you know, everyone who has read you know, leftist
Speaker 1: theory is going to be like I'm presenting this in
Speaker 1: the most goofy, simplistic way possible, but basically, like all
Speaker 1: these men are dealing with the failure of industry and
Speaker 1: the failure of social safety net and the like, these
Speaker 1: structural failures and because of the effect that toxic masculinity
Speaker 1: has on them. They're interpreting it as personal failures. And
Speaker 1: I think that this affects like almost every man in
Speaker 1: this group, and you see it affect them in different ways.
Speaker 1: But it is like it's so sad and frustrating to
Speaker 1: see for guys that he he is both really doing
Speaker 1: everything he can to like get through and be able
Speaker 1: to keep custody of his son and be able to
Speaker 1: support himself financially, but he's being put in this impossible
Speaker 1: situation and also because of all the messaging that you know,
Speaker 1: everybody gets, is made to feel like he is like
Speaker 1: failed as a provid eider as well. And so it's
Speaker 1: it's just I don't know, Yeah, it's so it's so complicated,
Speaker 1: but it's not presented like that. I just think it's
Speaker 1: really cool. I don't know. Yeah, I will say that
Speaker 1: when I watched this movie when I was younger, like
Speaker 1: when I was a teenager, I feel like I did
Speaker 1: maybe think that his ex wife Mandy was kind of
Speaker 1: presented sort of as like your kind of typical like
Speaker 1: mother Shrew character, especially because in every scene she's in,
Speaker 1: she and Gas are arguing over Nathan, but rewatching it
Speaker 1: like through this lens. I fully like, I saw where
Speaker 1: she was coming from, and I was like, well, of
Speaker 1: course she's constantly arguing with him. It's because he's, like again,
Speaker 1: making questionable parental decisions. He's also, I would argue that
Speaker 1: he's not necessarily doing everything he can to like no, okay,
Speaker 1: child's moore, because he's also she offers him a job,
Speaker 1: there are jobs available, but there he like kind of
Speaker 1: I think he might see him like certain work to
Speaker 1: be below him because he's also I know, I don't
Speaker 1: want this job. No, I'm not going to be a
Speaker 1: security guy like he. So he's refusing opportunities for work,
Speaker 1: which I found should be frustrating. Yeah, I mean I agree.
Speaker 1: I also felt like he didn't want to work under
Speaker 1: her because he has a lot of I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel like the main thing with Gas for me is
Speaker 1: is the the bringing your kids places your kids shouldn't
Speaker 1: be and misogyny. Um are are two and not the
Speaker 1: only things, but like two big things where like, clearly
Speaker 1: this guy has some issues with women, and it seems
Speaker 1: like he does not want it. Seems like he is
Speaker 1: and I guess, yeah, it's like I'm watching it with
Speaker 1: my goggles on where I'm like, yeah, like it seems
Speaker 1: like he doesn't want to work beneath man D and
Speaker 1: that like that to him is like I would rather
Speaker 1: like hatch a scheme than work beneath someone. But it's
Speaker 1: also like it's I don't know, it's it's such a
Speaker 1: tricky area where it's like, you know, should he be
Speaker 1: forced to take a job that he doesn't want to take?
Speaker 1: Like that doesn't seem reasonable either, But he's just like
Speaker 1: everyone's being put in an impossible situation. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: definitely interpreted the like her. I'm also like two fifty
Speaker 1: an hour even like what it was pounds? It was pounds,
Speaker 1: but yeah, like what would that have converted to in
Speaker 1: late nineties money? Yeah, And it's like, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: a lot of people who grew up in working class circumstances,
Speaker 1: like their parents to support them, took jobs that they
Speaker 1: did not were not passionate about, and certainly felt were
Speaker 1: below their skill set and below what they wanted to do.
Speaker 1: And sometimes, you know, I don't know, we're not parents
Speaker 1: that said I did. I Yeah, I was also frustrated
Speaker 1: by him, you know, scheme over Garen, Like it's it's
Speaker 1: he's he's a self sabotager, like he's a major self sabotager,
Speaker 1: and that it's like, you know, if if this movie
Speaker 1: took place in the real world and nobody came to
Speaker 1: that show, he would simply lose custody of his son,
Speaker 1: like it would blow up in his face royally, I
Speaker 1: don't know. And then I mean, like you mentioned, he
Speaker 1: does pretty clearly have some issues with misogyny that I
Speaker 1: like to think that he starts to work through after
Speaker 1: this show and that he grotes as a person. But
Speaker 1: there's like that whole scene when they're at the job
Speaker 1: club and he's talking about how, oh, like men are obsolete,
Speaker 1: and I feel like that's like a reflection of this
Speaker 1: idea that as soon as women, if there's any kind
Speaker 1: of like women's liberation, men interpret that is like, well, well,
Speaker 1: if if women are are free and have rights and
Speaker 1: can have jobs and stuff, then men won't even need
Speaker 1: to exist, and they feel like very threat from me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is so like boomer mentality. Yeah. Yeah, So that's
Speaker 1: like very clearly what guys is talking about in this
Speaker 1: scene to me where he's like, well, gee whiz. And
Speaker 1: then there's also like funny slash bizarre thing where they're
Speaker 1: like talking about that woman who they saw peeing while
Speaker 1: she was standing up and they were like how how
Speaker 1: could that even happen? And then some random guys like
Speaker 1: genetic mutations, they're turning into us, and then they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're going extinct. We're only going to be in like
Speaker 1: a zoo. Again. It's like that sort of thing where
Speaker 1: I'm just like I'm putting my I'm trying to put
Speaker 1: on goggles and I just don't have access to them.
Speaker 1: I'm like, how was what was this joke supposed to
Speaker 1: be about when it came out? Because maybe it's like,
Speaker 1: but I thought that that scene was like kind it
Speaker 1: was fun in that I felt like and again maybe
Speaker 1: I'm giving them moving more credit than it deserves, like
Speaker 1: that it was they were supposed to look kind of
Speaker 1: desperate and ridiculous in the way that they were talking
Speaker 1: about women, where it was like, I don't know, like
Speaker 1: it's just it's not all of but you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of misogyny is like men being insecure about themselves
Speaker 1: and then weaponizing it against someone that they think is
Speaker 1: an easy target. And like the way that they talk
Speaker 1: about women in terms of like women who are working
Speaker 1: while they're not. It's like, well, what a huge insult.
Speaker 1: And it's like we we just need to think a
Speaker 1: little bigger, guys, we need to think a little bigger.
Speaker 1: It's not there, it's not them. Um yeah, um, why
Speaker 1: don't we take a quick break and then we'll come
Speaker 1: back for a more discussion and we're back. Is there
Speaker 1: anything else we wanna say regarding Gas? Um? I guess well,
Speaker 1: I think guys, He's just it's for our protagonist. He
Speaker 1: I feel like embodies a lot of toxic mail, Like
Speaker 1: I feel like more so than any other character really
Speaker 1: except for maybe Gerald, But like Gas has a lot
Speaker 1: like he has the misogyny. He makes homophobic comments about
Speaker 1: the Chippendales at first, he you know, fat shames Dave
Speaker 1: at times, like he he is extremely rigid in binary
Speaker 1: in the way that he thinks, which is like we
Speaker 1: can pretty reasonably say product of his environment. But also
Speaker 1: it's like there are men in this same environment that
Speaker 1: seemed to have more open lines and are kind of
Speaker 1: a more productive path. So Gaz isn't my favorite, but um,
Speaker 1: I I respect his journey. I'm glad he didn't lose
Speaker 1: custody of his son. Also, I what do you think
Speaker 1: about Gas taking money from Nath. I feel like that's
Speaker 1: another complicated thing where it's like it has to happen
Speaker 1: plot wise, but like they're had, like especially when he
Speaker 1: could have just worked for Mandy for a couple of
Speaker 1: days and gotten the same amount of money over taking
Speaker 1: it from his son's savings account. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: like especially that young like, I don't know. It's like
Speaker 1: the way money loves within working class families is definitely complicated.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, taking your whatever, ten year old only money, Gas,
Speaker 1: really really I don't like it. He's perhaps also too
Speaker 1: quick to be like, okay, take your money. He doesn't
Speaker 1: push one, but yeah, what I'll say there is that
Speaker 1: I hope he pays it back immediately after doing this
Speaker 1: show with like interest. I feel like he will to,
Speaker 1: like he loves he loves Naith, right, But I'm like, God,
Speaker 1: you're putting Nathan between a rock and a hard place here,
Speaker 1: gash my god. I also think that Nathan will help
Speaker 1: to rid Gas of some of his misogyny. And I
Speaker 1: say this because there's a scene in the very beginning
Speaker 1: where Gus sees a woman rates her on like a
Speaker 1: one to ten scale. Says a bunch of really sexist stuff,
Speaker 1: like he's like, well she's a night maybe even a nine.
Speaker 1: You never can tell until you see their tids um,
Speaker 1: and we're like gas um. And while he's saying this,
Speaker 1: Nathan's like dad, like in a very like testy way.
Speaker 1: And I hope that as Nathan gets older, he sits
Speaker 1: his dad down and says, Dad, you shouldn't be objectifying
Speaker 1: women like that. You should not be valuing a woman
Speaker 1: based on how attractive you perceive her to be, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So I agree, Yeah, I thought that, like nath being
Speaker 1: embarrassed by his dad's misogyny hopefully means that down down
Speaker 1: the road. Also, I'm like, is Nathan their manager now?
Speaker 1: Like what happens now? I don't know. He seems to
Speaker 1: be kind of I mean he's clearly he's an investor,
Speaker 1: that much is for sure. He's an early investor in
Speaker 1: the group. Who knows he's he's wearing many hats. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's you know, a complex, a complex character. Shout out
Speaker 1: to Nathan. You know what a what a sweetheart, what
Speaker 1: a sweet kid and a pretty good child actor, pretty good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: His name is William Snape, which I was like, huh
Speaker 1: that it sounds like a fake name, but right, because
Speaker 1: then you're and you're like, oh wait, I guess Harry
Speaker 1: Potter that name isn't a fake name, which is what
Speaker 1: I always thought when I it's like it sounds like snake,
Speaker 1: So turn out it's a real last name. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: water under the bridge at this point, Um, where where
Speaker 1: shall we? Where shall we go from here? What about Dave? Dave? Okay, Yes,
Speaker 1: I I Dave's journey is unique, and I feel like,
Speaker 1: not just unique in this group, but unique for talking
Speaker 1: about masculinity and body standards at all. Yes, So the
Speaker 1: thing that he is predominantly dealing with in this movie
Speaker 1: is that he feels a lot of shame about being fat,
Speaker 1: probably because his peers constantly fat shame him. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: he's he so mentions. I thought it was like a
Speaker 1: useful context that is like this is something that has
Speaker 1: been his whole life, Like he's been made fun of
Speaker 1: for this and it and and it's like clearly just
Speaker 1: like his body type because he's like, I haven't changed anything,
Speaker 1: It's just who I am. But like people will not
Speaker 1: leave him alone about it. Yeah, and then it's at
Speaker 1: least suggested in the movie that the shame he is
Speaker 1: feeling is manifesting as like this sexual dry spell with
Speaker 1: his wife because he's experiencing impotency issues. He's uh seems
Speaker 1: to be unable to get an erection, uh, and it's
Speaker 1: affecting his sex life with his wife. The fact that
Speaker 1: this is even like talked about at all in a
Speaker 1: movie in the nineties is like kind of groundbreaking. But yeah,
Speaker 1: and I felt as though that was all dealt with
Speaker 1: pretty responsibly. Yeah. Yeah, and I think like in making
Speaker 1: it clear that all of this is happening in response
Speaker 1: to you know, just how others are perceiving his body.
Speaker 1: And it's like that moment at the end with his
Speaker 1: his wife, um, but where it's like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, there's so so much about
Speaker 1: that scene that I thought was really sweet and well
Speaker 1: thought out of just you know, she she loves him,
Speaker 1: and she's attracted to him, and she loves his body,
Speaker 1: and just hearing that sometimes is like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's like I feel like, and this is a generalization,
Speaker 1: but a lot of men, straight men particularly don't always
Speaker 1: know how to like ask for what they need or
Speaker 1: there's like there's on top of like shame attached to
Speaker 1: your body, which you know affects people of all genders,
Speaker 1: Like there is like this I don't know if like
Speaker 1: there there's this kind of general like you can't admit weakness,
Speaker 1: you know, you can't discuss shame with your partner when
Speaker 1: it's so clearly like it's one conversation that like totally
Speaker 1: sets him free and like clearly, I mean, it doesn't
Speaker 1: solve the problem right away, but it's it's just so
Speaker 1: so simple and so nice and but but it you
Speaker 1: totally understand why he's going through this journey the way
Speaker 1: he is, because it's just like shame on top of shame,
Speaker 1: on top of shame on top of shame, and it's
Speaker 1: all connected to this like toxicity around men and and
Speaker 1: around the way that people like police each other's bodies totally.
Speaker 1: There are a couple of scenes in the movie where
Speaker 1: they're hanging out at Gerald's house, and one of them,
Speaker 1: Dave is kind of expressing his insecurity about like not
Speaker 1: wanting to show his naked body in front of a
Speaker 1: bunch of people, and Gerald kind of dismisses him and
Speaker 1: says fat David is a feminist issue, and he's like,
Speaker 1: what's that supposed to mean when it's at home? And yeah,
Speaker 1: so like even when he does try to open up
Speaker 1: and talk about it, he's like it's being dismissed. And
Speaker 1: because like Gerald holds this toxic viewpoint of like, well,
Speaker 1: being fat is something that's like only women are concerned about,
Speaker 1: or only women should be concerned about, and like this
Speaker 1: it should you know, it shouldn't affect you, but obviously,
Speaker 1: like body and beauty standards affect everyone who has a body,
Speaker 1: which is everyone. So yeah, so he's not being taken seriously.
Speaker 1: And then there's a later scene where they're looking at
Speaker 1: like a porn magazine and um Lumper is like, oh,
Speaker 1: well her tits are too big, and Dave's like, well,
Speaker 1: I hope they're not going to be looking at us
Speaker 1: like that. I hope the women in the audience are
Speaker 1: more understanding comes through and then they're like, well why
Speaker 1: would why would they be judging our bodies? And he's
Speaker 1: just like, well, you know, why not. He's just commented
Speaker 1: on her breast siyes and lumbers, like well it's different
Speaker 1: where blokes, but well I guess I mean, yes, the
Speaker 1: standards of beauty do tend to be a bit harsher
Speaker 1: and more rigid for women, but men and people of
Speaker 1: all genders are subjected to specific and often rigid beauty standards. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I thought that that story, you know, it played out
Speaker 1: pretty well. And it's like and and the fact that
Speaker 1: it's like having that conversation with his where his wife, um,
Speaker 1: but having that conversation with her, like and communicating and
Speaker 1: acknowledging where you feel vulnerable, which again not what straight
Speaker 1: men are generally known for. Um is able to like
Speaker 1: kind of unlock this confidence in himself and an acceptance
Speaker 1: and like enjoying being in his own skin. It's so
Speaker 1: simple and so nice, and I just, yeah, I I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. And there's also there's a quote I
Speaker 1: want to pull from friend of the cast, Jenna Schmiding,
Speaker 1: who gave an interview recently that I don't know it
Speaker 1: just timed out well. Watched this movie last night, this
Speaker 1: interview came out this morning. Uh so, Janna says, quote,
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, let me actually lead in with the quote.
Speaker 1: Uh In. In Schmiding's estimation, we can only really celebrate
Speaker 1: body positivity when quote we create equity and access for
Speaker 1: fat people in all aspects of our lives. The term
Speaker 1: body positivity, Yes, it is about celebrating our existence and
Speaker 1: celebrating our bodies. But it's nearly impossible to do that
Speaker 1: when every system and structure around us is built and
Speaker 1: created to exclude fat people and to essentially vilify and
Speaker 1: oppress fat individuals and fatness as a concept. We need
Speaker 1: to get to a place where fatness is normalized widely
Speaker 1: and people have access to medical care and all of
Speaker 1: the same social norms that non fat people have access to, unquote,
Speaker 1: which is you know, I don't think that this movie
Speaker 1: goes all the way, but I think that it in
Speaker 1: terms of just even having that discussion in in a
Speaker 1: kind of I mean, I I feel like part of
Speaker 1: this movie's strength is that everyone in this group is
Speaker 1: kind of clueless, and they're all kind of like coming
Speaker 1: to most of these issues with like I don't know,
Speaker 1: and like learning from each other through trial and error,
Speaker 1: and it's just like, I don't know. It's it's cool.
Speaker 1: It's as as uncomfortable as it is at times, it's
Speaker 1: cool to watch them work through it. Yeah, because like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be super realistic if all of these men
Speaker 1: in were like super woke and like I knew all
Speaker 1: the stuff and just like we're it wouldn't make sense
Speaker 1: in one like it's like I do, I do like
Speaker 1: and I hope that that kind of I would like
Speaker 1: to see. I guess more of that of like people
Speaker 1: learning on the screen and like shedding the ship mentality
Speaker 1: and not coming in a fully formed you know, being,
Speaker 1: because like no one does. And yeah, it's it's just
Speaker 1: like super interesting because it's like, yeah, I mean, guys
Speaker 1: in that group are fucking up in terms of like
Speaker 1: they're dismissing Dave's concerns. They're telling him it's not a thing,
Speaker 1: and then they realize over time that oh, it very
Speaker 1: much is a thing, and it's affecting my friend who
Speaker 1: I love. Yeah, Dave does not display as much misogyny
Speaker 1: as Gas does, But there is one part of the
Speaker 1: movie when they're watching Flash Dance and Dave is commenting
Speaker 1: on the main characters welding abilities, so and they're like
Speaker 1: you don't know how to well, yeah, guys, is like,
Speaker 1: what the funk do you know about welding? And Dave says,
Speaker 1: I know more than some chuffing woman, which chuffing I'm
Speaker 1: I'm guessing is like fucking, I don't like, I don't, goddamn,
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, correct as if we're wrong. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, so he doesn't think that women can weld
Speaker 1: really really, what Dave is more guilty of is letting
Speaker 1: things slide when other men around him say fucked up stuff,
Speaker 1: because it's like, I mean, Nathan is doing more to
Speaker 1: push up against gazes casual misogyny than Davis, and Nathan's
Speaker 1: like ten, uh so that's not great. Yeah, because it's
Speaker 1: like any time like I feel like and you see
Speaker 1: this like I don't know, like I've I've seen this
Speaker 1: interaction where it's like someone says something really casually fucked
Speaker 1: up and then the other persons like, oh, come on,
Speaker 1: like and then they just never talk about it. That
Speaker 1: is Dave. That that seems like Dave's m O is like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say it myself, but I'm never
Speaker 1: going to point out when someone's being you know, bigoted, unfair,
Speaker 1: misogynist at yea, yeah, yeah, shall we talk about Gerald? Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's talk about Gerald. So his situation is that he
Speaker 1: is ashamed at having lost his job. He cannot be
Speaker 1: the provider anymore. He is unable to admit this to
Speaker 1: his wife because of all the shame he feels um
Speaker 1: which again goes back to that kind of toxic standard
Speaker 1: of masculine city where men are expected to be the
Speaker 1: providers and if they can't do that, then the other
Speaker 1: a failure, they don't know what they're worth is and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So, um, yeah, I thought that was
Speaker 1: a very interesting thing to explore. There are there's like
Speaker 1: at least one scene where even Gazz is like, why
Speaker 1: can't you just tell your wife? And Gerald's like, well,
Speaker 1: it's been six months now, Like how can I tell
Speaker 1: her now? I've let it go on for way too
Speaker 1: long and and part of it is like, also, this
Speaker 1: just not being able to be like open and forthcoming
Speaker 1: to the romantic partner, and it's it's so like and
Speaker 1: it's it seems to be like in Dave and Gerald's case,
Speaker 1: wives that they love very much. It makes me sad.
Speaker 1: And what I really loved is his wife's response when
Speaker 1: she does find out and I don't I feel like
Speaker 1: you do learn her name, but I he mentioned it
Speaker 1: a few times, but it's the dialogue in this movie
Speaker 1: was so tough for me. And she does have a name,
Speaker 1: I don't remember what it was off the top of
Speaker 1: my head. Linda I think is her name? That yes, Okay.
Speaker 1: So she finds out because people come into her home
Speaker 1: and start repossessing things. And Gerald comes home while this
Speaker 1: is happening, and she's like, how long has this been
Speaker 1: going on? He's like about six months. And she's like,
Speaker 1: all right, well, you know, I can deal with losing
Speaker 1: the sun bed, the car, whatever, like material possessions. She
Speaker 1: lists off. She's like, I can even deal with the
Speaker 1: shame of everyone watching this, but six months and you
Speaker 1: couldn't even tell me your wife. So she's not upset
Speaker 1: about which I think is like a pretty major subversion
Speaker 1: for like the wife character of just like being upset
Speaker 1: about like losing these like luxury items and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: She's like, I don't even care about that. I only
Speaker 1: care that you you weren't honest with me, and you
Speaker 1: weren't open with me, and you didn't tell me that
Speaker 1: this is something that was happening, especially because like she's
Speaker 1: sort of set up to seem kind of like materialistic
Speaker 1: because she's like, let's go, like, let's spend all this money.
Speaker 1: I want to go on like a ski trip and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. But then she's like, I don't actually
Speaker 1: care about that. I just wanted you to be honest
Speaker 1: with me. I Yeah, I really liked that too, because
Speaker 1: I honestly was like the way that they were setting
Speaker 1: her up where they were like, you know, she's kind
Speaker 1: of this. I mean, they're you know, their vibe is
Speaker 1: like upper middle class assholes. But yeah, it's like that
Speaker 1: that is a cool subversion where it's it's and and
Speaker 1: again it's I feel like, you know, in the same
Speaker 1: way that I'm like, I totally understand why Mandy is
Speaker 1: so frustrated with Gas, you can also see why Linda
Speaker 1: is so hurt by this because and also and and
Speaker 1: and again where both sides of this conflict like they're
Speaker 1: just both prisoners to this like his toxic masculinity that
Speaker 1: he's been taking in his whole life, and it's affecting
Speaker 1: everyone so negatively. Oh it makes me and and and
Speaker 1: it's hard to not feel for Gerald in a way
Speaker 1: to where it's like, yeah, you're being a absolute fool
Speaker 1: about how you're dealing with this. Talk to bottom, talk
Speaker 1: to your wife. But like that concept of yeah, just
Speaker 1: being defined by your ability to provide and and not
Speaker 1: being able to provide connected to just like complete emasculation
Speaker 1: in a way that I'm just I mean, like every movie,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, therapy, therapy would fix, would fix
Speaker 1: a lot of these issues. Um, another movie where all
Speaker 1: of these characters need to be in therapy, including ethan Um. Yes, uh,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I liked that's right. And also just like them,
Speaker 1: you know, Gerald being like, well, you know, she's used
Speaker 1: to a standard of living and I don't want to
Speaker 1: ask her to have to compromise, which I don't know.
Speaker 1: That was just giving me like major O eight recession vibes. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, like he would rather go into debt than
Speaker 1: admit that his financial status has changed, Like he would
Speaker 1: rather sever the most important relationship in his life than
Speaker 1: admit that, you know, a situation out of his control
Speaker 1: is affecting his family. And it's like, come on, man,
Speaker 1: but you also understand where it all comes from, right,
Speaker 1: It's not happening in a vacuum. Gerald. It also makes
Speaker 1: you wonder, how does Linda not know that the factory
Speaker 1: closed down six months ago? Like wouldn't that have been
Speaker 1: like in the newspaper, wouldn't people be talking about it
Speaker 1: that I had that question also, but I'm like, maybe
Speaker 1: he was like just like, oh, I'm working somewhere else
Speaker 1: dot dot dot think he got a different job. I know.
Speaker 1: I was just like, I wish that had been clarified
Speaker 1: because otherwise it just makes her seem like completely oblivious
Speaker 1: because I'm like, well, where where were you for the
Speaker 1: last six months, Linda. Um. The other thing with Gerald
Speaker 1: is that we learn a bit later on in the
Speaker 1: movie that he's experiencing a situation where he gets unexpected erections.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the medical term for this is,
Speaker 1: I can't help. And this is something that he like
Speaker 1: confides in to Dave. But because Dave he's experiencing impotency, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're not seeing eye to eye on it. He's like, I,
Speaker 1: you're talking to the wrong man, right, Um. So he
Speaker 1: also he kind of dismisses Gerald after Gerald had dismissed
Speaker 1: Dave for like being insecure about his weight, and then
Speaker 1: the other members of the group. I guess he confides
Speaker 1: in them or they find out about it in some
Speaker 1: way and they're like it's this thing where they're like
Speaker 1: trying to be supportive because they're like, oh, well, what
Speaker 1: if like think about boring things and then you like
Speaker 1: won't get an erection. But then they also tease him
Speaker 1: about it, and I don't know how to feel about
Speaker 1: that because I was like, oh, well, they shouldn't be
Speaker 1: teasing him, but this is how I don't know, Like
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like, that's another through line that this
Speaker 1: movie touches on, I think, with four different characters where
Speaker 1: it's like some sort of self definition by if not
Speaker 1: your penis's size, what your penis is doing in its
Speaker 1: spare time, its leisure hours, etcetera. Um, and and it honestly,
Speaker 1: like I know that it's imperfectly done. I don't feel
Speaker 1: qualified to get even like incredibly specific with how um,
Speaker 1: but but I do. Yeah, it's I kind of wonder
Speaker 1: I for uh, for our listeners that have some insight here.
Speaker 1: I guess it's like I I viewed the way that
Speaker 1: not in all situations, but in some situations, it's like
Speaker 1: these men can only communicate by like sort of making
Speaker 1: a joke out of everything, and like they clearly it's
Speaker 1: really hard for them to have a straight discussion because
Speaker 1: as we see from how all their relationships are, they
Speaker 1: cannot communicate with anybody until it's like an absolute breaking point,
Speaker 1: like they their life has to be almost destroyed before
Speaker 1: they'll communicate, And so I sort of view that as
Speaker 1: like an extension of that of like they're teasing each
Speaker 1: other instead of talking about it, but through easy each other,
Speaker 1: they're trying to talk about it, but it's not really
Speaker 1: like it's a very imperfect approach, I don't know, being real,
Speaker 1: real straight guys some of them. And then that might
Speaker 1: bring us to Lamper and or guy. So Lumper is
Speaker 1: I think like the third character to join the group.
Speaker 1: He's the one who they stop like an active suicide
Speaker 1: attempt um. The aftermath of that is again like a
Speaker 1: very like they're joking with him about the like the
Speaker 1: other ways that he could have attempted suicide, yeah, which
Speaker 1: is which is like, I don't know, I don't hate
Speaker 1: the way it's written that they trying to talk him down.
Speaker 1: They also clearly have no idea how to talk about this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then it it ends with him saying like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't have any friends, and they're like, well, how
Speaker 1: could you tell us that we're not your friends? You know,
Speaker 1: we just saved your life, and he's like really that
Speaker 1: little smile where he's like oh, oh, I know it's
Speaker 1: it's it's very sweet. It's very sweet. Yeah. And then
Speaker 1: and then a little bit later, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you caught this, but Gas is saying, he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I roped him into the group because this could be
Speaker 1: good therapy for him. Yes, yes, that was very sweet.
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, you know, real therapy would be
Speaker 1: good therapy for him, but um, if that's not available.
Speaker 1: But we also it's like it it were, you know,
Speaker 1: in a in a very low income area, it's very
Speaker 1: likely that that would not be made available on top
Speaker 1: of the stigma. Although they're in England, so maybe they
Speaker 1: do have more access to things. I don't really know.
Speaker 1: I don't really know. English listeners help us out here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then for long or it's revealed that he is
Speaker 1: gay or queer. He's attracted to men, which guy also is.
Speaker 1: Because they have that moment when they're like running away
Speaker 1: from the dress rehearsal and they are like very close
Speaker 1: and they're face to face and they have their vibing.
Speaker 1: You're like, let's have three movies of this, right. The
Speaker 1: only other thing, the only other part of this very
Speaker 1: minimal storyline is a few scenes later when Lamper's mother
Speaker 1: has passed away and they're at her funeral, and we
Speaker 1: see a very tiny glimpse of the two of them
Speaker 1: holding hands, which then Gas and Dave notice and comment on,
Speaker 1: and it's, you know, they're just kind of surprised and
Speaker 1: it was unexpected for them. And then Dave says a
Speaker 1: very like Northern England expression, there's not as queer as folk,
Speaker 1: and I was like, which doesn't specifically is not specifically
Speaker 1: about queer people. It's just means like, there's nothing as
Speaker 1: strange as people. But then he like kind of realizes
Speaker 1: the double on tenda of what he said, and then
Speaker 1: they start laughing. They're cracking up at the funeral. At
Speaker 1: the funeral, right, So I guess my main thing here
Speaker 1: is that I just really would have liked to see
Speaker 1: more of this storyline. It gets so breezed past, and
Speaker 1: we don't really learn anything about them as a couple
Speaker 1: except for just the very those two tiny little glimpses.
Speaker 1: It's freustra and it's so it's so seven and unfortunately
Speaker 1: kind of like best case scenario where the fact that
Speaker 1: they are interested in each other and that they like
Speaker 1: seemed to be at the beginning of our relation sationship
Speaker 1: um is presented in a very you know, pretty matter
Speaker 1: of fact way, but it's so brief, and it's like,
Speaker 1: you know that if this were hederal relationship, that it
Speaker 1: would all of a sudden take over the entire plot
Speaker 1: in the way that had hedteral relationships that you barely
Speaker 1: know anything about consume the plot entirely in in many movies, it's,
Speaker 1: you know, we're kind of going for scraps here. I
Speaker 1: do appreciate that it passed queer coding, and you know,
Speaker 1: explicitly we're like, these are these are queer characters, but
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know of like I feel like,
Speaker 1: of all the issues that are like reference, but only
Speaker 1: like in a very surface, scratchy sort of way. This
Speaker 1: this was one of the big ones. But that said,
Speaker 1: what is there? I think it's very sweet and I'm
Speaker 1: I'm rooting for them, ing for them too, But yeah,
Speaker 1: the movie spends more screen time on Dave and Gaz's
Speaker 1: reaction to learning this information than it does on the
Speaker 1: relationship itself, which I guess like and again, this is
Speaker 1: extremely bare minimum for them to for Gaz to have
Speaker 1: said homophobic things prior to that, but generally seemed to
Speaker 1: be accepting of this relationship is like again bare minimum,
Speaker 1: but this is yeah, I mean, it does seem like
Speaker 1: this whole movie to an extent, is a journey of
Speaker 1: bare minimum acceptance narratives where it's like, oh, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to mock my friend's body anymore. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to make casually homophobic comments about whomever, Like I'm not
Speaker 1: going to assume the worst in and like objectify every
Speaker 1: woman who walks into my path, like it's like the
Speaker 1: bar is on the floor. But yeah, I mean, but
Speaker 1: you're totally right, is like harping on the reaction versus
Speaker 1: like there's just there's room there was And I'm not
Speaker 1: even asking for, you know, this relationship to take over
Speaker 1: the movie. That wouldn't make sense. But it's like, can
Speaker 1: we have a scene with the two of them? Can
Speaker 1: we have a scene with the two of them? Especially
Speaker 1: because according to our favorite scholarly journal Wikipedia, the original
Speaker 1: cut of the movie came in under ninety minutes, so
Speaker 1: they went back and re shot, like shot some new scenes,
Speaker 1: like new scenes were like written into the movie. For example,
Speaker 1: the the scene where they're like doing an exercise montage
Speaker 1: and then they're like playing soccer that was shot later.
Speaker 1: Well that makes sense and really long, and I didn't
Speaker 1: know why I was there. It's unnecessary. And if you notice,
Speaker 1: Robert Carlyle is not in that scene, those scenes because
Speaker 1: he was like filming other stuff, because this was after
Speaker 1: like principal photography on this movie and he wasn't available,
Speaker 1: so double frustrating. So there was like there was room,
Speaker 1: explicitly room for this relationship to be explored further, and
Speaker 1: the choice was simply made to not annoying. I don't like. Wow,
Speaker 1: now that I know that, I'm triple annoyed. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I like what's there. But but it's barely there. It's
Speaker 1: barely there, and it's you know, I kind of added
Speaker 1: in towards the end, and then you see a referenced
Speaker 1: in two scenes and then it's you know, we we
Speaker 1: spend and I'm not even saying it's a bad thing
Speaker 1: that we spend a lot of time with Dave and
Speaker 1: his wife, and we spend a lot of time with
Speaker 1: Gas and Mandy, but it's like, let's uh spread the
Speaker 1: love around movie, come on. And then the final character
Speaker 1: is horse to discuss, so the thing that he is
Speaker 1: dealing with is that he is insecure about his penis size,
Speaker 1: which again is another just sort of byproduct of the
Speaker 1: patriarchal society that we live in, this toxic standard of masculinity.
Speaker 1: We talked about this on a recent episode on be
Speaker 1: Dazzled of All movies about society's obsession with penis size
Speaker 1: and penis function. I suppose the idea is obsessed with penises,
Speaker 1: and it's like, um, we as a society must grow
Speaker 1: up on this. Really it's hurting people, it is, yeah,
Speaker 1: because there's this idea that, you know, you should measure
Speaker 1: a person's masculinity based on how big their penises and
Speaker 1: how it works. And it's like, it's very common still
Speaker 1: today to shame a person for having a small penis,
Speaker 1: or shame someone who's experiencing impotency or premature ejaculation, or
Speaker 1: any number of things. And four different characters in this
Speaker 1: movie their subplot or at least part of their subplot
Speaker 1: has something to do with something relating to their penis,
Speaker 1: which I feel like for the most part, this movie
Speaker 1: handles pretty well, like the just that it gets explored
Speaker 1: at all that these men feel this pressure to have
Speaker 1: a penis that like aligns with society's expectations, and they
Speaker 1: sentence feel the best sentence I've ever said. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: it starts to explore these, like, you know, toxic standards,
Speaker 1: and granted it doesn't dive very far into them. I
Speaker 1: think where the movie kind of fails here is that
Speaker 1: the character Guy, who I would argue we know the
Speaker 1: least about of all of these people. Yeah, all we
Speaker 1: know is that he is the lunchbox and that he
Speaker 1: readd Gerald La. I think that's all we know. And
Speaker 1: he gets brought into the group strictly based on the
Speaker 1: fact that he has a large penis, so they are
Speaker 1: valuing him. They think that he has something to bring
Speaker 1: to the table based on his penis size, and they're
Speaker 1: not doing that in a vacuum. But that said, like
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's a it's a loaded decision, yes,
Speaker 1: And then I'm kind of curious about Horse being the character,
Speaker 1: so he's insecure about what he perceives to be his
Speaker 1: small penis. Um He's also the only black character, and
Speaker 1: because there is a popular stereotype that black men have
Speaker 1: large penises, which of course is a very toxic stereotype
Speaker 1: because it's historically been used to over sexualized black men
Speaker 1: and to accuse them of being sexually aggressive. So the
Speaker 1: movie subverts this stereotype, and it also kind of makes
Speaker 1: me wonder, like, do as horse feel the pressure to
Speaker 1: have a bigger penis based on this stereotype? And it
Speaker 1: barely requires saying, but all of these stereotypes are completely
Speaker 1: erroneous and there and they're also you know, in Horses
Speaker 1: clearly having an effect on his self esteem based on
Speaker 1: these complete lies that are being you know, forced upon him.
Speaker 1: And it's kind of made a joke of in this movie,
Speaker 1: not in a way that I feel like it's aggressively
Speaker 1: punching down, but I do think that there was like
Speaker 1: a little more room just in the way that there
Speaker 1: is more room to explore his character in general, there
Speaker 1: was more room to kind of directly interrogate that stereotype,
Speaker 1: you know, where it's like referenced, but it's almost referenced
Speaker 1: as a given, rather than making it clear that it's
Speaker 1: like and this is total bullshit, you know, right, there's
Speaker 1: nothing there's like no explicit indication that that is what's
Speaker 1: being referenced. It's just sort of like the movie just
Speaker 1: sort of treats that is like this is probably common knowledge,
Speaker 1: the very wink wink way of addressing it. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know in a movie that I think that does a
Speaker 1: lot well. That is like a stereotype that is referenced
Speaker 1: without being interrogated or explored in anyway. And it just
Speaker 1: feels like a kind of a clearly missed opportunity for sure.
Speaker 1: But because of how this story is set up, there's
Speaker 1: no one but white guys around to talk to um.
Speaker 1: The fact that we are having this conversation at all
Speaker 1: about like, the ambiguity of it makes it clear that
Speaker 1: the topic was not you know, made clear enough or
Speaker 1: adequately explored. And it's yeah, I it's I. I really
Speaker 1: like Horses character. And but he's you know, he's the
Speaker 1: only person of color in this group at all. He's
Speaker 1: certainly the only black man in this group. We see
Speaker 1: his family in that really funny scene where like horses
Speaker 1: Horses feel like they really um, they're they're very supportive
Speaker 1: of his endeavors. And they show up and we don't
Speaker 1: get to talk to them, we don't get to know
Speaker 1: who they are, Like they're the only black women in
Speaker 1: the movie, and they don't say anything, and we don't
Speaker 1: know who they are, and it's like I feel like
Speaker 1: this this is a really We've talked about this a
Speaker 1: bazillion times, particularly with nineties movies, but it is a
Speaker 1: you know, very a persistent trope of you know, the
Speaker 1: only person of color, you don't know that much about
Speaker 1: their background or their home life, like in the way
Speaker 1: that and and and I get that it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: we we don't see the lunchboxes home life. Uh, but
Speaker 1: but I do think that that it's like again because
Speaker 1: we fully know that there are there is room to
Speaker 1: build out each and every one of these characters we've
Speaker 1: got the time, I think it's it's like it kind
Speaker 1: of sticks out that horses um home life, and his
Speaker 1: character isn't more fully fleshed out, and we don't get
Speaker 1: to explore it more. I was like really disappointed, not
Speaker 1: surprised with the fact that our only black character, we
Speaker 1: we he has an arc. He you know, it's not
Speaker 1: like he has no story. He definitely does. And it's
Speaker 1: you know, comparable to the stories that the other men
Speaker 1: are going through, where he's like you know, going you know,
Speaker 1: navigating this um these toxic expectations and coming out on
Speaker 1: the other side more confident and more satisfied with himself,
Speaker 1: but you don't get the whole aspect of it, which
Speaker 1: I think you get for every character except for Horse
Speaker 1: and what is his actual name? Guy? Literally his name
Speaker 1: is Guy, which is why I keep I'm like, because
Speaker 1: I keep wanted to say that guy, but because his
Speaker 1: name is Guy. Um, Horse and Guy, you don't get
Speaker 1: that background. And I just feel like it would be
Speaker 1: you know, it would benefit both of those characters, but
Speaker 1: particularly Hoarse, to to more fully explore what their background is,
Speaker 1: where they're coming from. You know. It's like that the
Speaker 1: four men we have the home lives of four white guys,
Speaker 1: you know, no problem. Um. So it feels it feels pointed,
Speaker 1: and it feels just like his characters, you know, under
Speaker 1: underwritten in a way that you know, for me, I'm like,
Speaker 1: it doesn't it makes no sense. Um. And Also, Paul
Speaker 1: Barber is such a fun character actor, and I just
Speaker 1: would have liked to like see him more like he's
Speaker 1: just he's just fun. He's so funny. This movie is
Speaker 1: so funny. It is, I know. So it's yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and and I wish I wish that that that his
Speaker 1: story was just more fully explored because the fact that
Speaker 1: we have this little to talk about, like, well, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's telling. Yes. Do you you have any other thoughts
Speaker 1: about the film? Um, I don't really think so. I
Speaker 1: think just in terms of, um, you know, it's I
Speaker 1: guess it will not really uh shock anybody to know
Speaker 1: that it's all you know, white men talk to bottom.
Speaker 1: In terms of production, I guess if it's actually there.
Speaker 1: There there is a female composer and Dudley who was
Speaker 1: nominated for an Academy Award for the score, which is
Speaker 1: interesting because I I feel like it's a jukebox movie,
Speaker 1: but she got dominated for her score, which I don't remember.
Speaker 1: There is Yeah, it's a lot of um the soundtrack. Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, the soundtrack is incredible. Um, there is
Speaker 1: some original score that is really good. And I believe,
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, she won the Academy Award. Did
Speaker 1: she win for it? Yeah? One for Best Original Musical
Speaker 1: or Comedy Score. Weight Okay, I think this is a
Speaker 1: different category that I'm not sure actually still exists anymore
Speaker 1: for the Academy Awards. I'm not sure, but either way,
Speaker 1: shout out and Dudley. Shout out and Dudley. So there
Speaker 1: there was you know, a win there, but like, this
Speaker 1: movie was just I don't know, I think it's like,
Speaker 1: ultimately it speaks to like this movie is taking a
Speaker 1: really funny, interesting way of exploring really commonly explored topics
Speaker 1: that clearly people wanted to see discussed in a movie.
Speaker 1: Because it was so ridiculously successful. Um, it was the
Speaker 1: highest grossing film in the UK until it was outperformed
Speaker 1: by Titanic Feels Good, which, like, so it would have
Speaker 1: only been the highest grossing movie in the UK for
Speaker 1: a few months because Titanic came out a few months later. Look,
Speaker 1: I hope they enjoyed their brief but significant rain over
Speaker 1: the UK box office. It's such a fun movie, Like
Speaker 1: it's Yeah, if you haven't seen this movie, you really
Speaker 1: do yourself a favor. It's a blast. Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1: And it's about I mean, we didn't talk too much
Speaker 1: about this, but like any movie that's about like that
Speaker 1: explores and I don't know, well, we've talked about some
Speaker 1: of the ways in which these friendships are maybe not
Speaker 1: the most healthy, but I think for the most part,
Speaker 1: especially oh By, like it's the friends, the male friendships
Speaker 1: that are being explored in this movie are just really sweet,
Speaker 1: and I really like them and they clearly need it.
Speaker 1: It's I do think that this is like a great
Speaker 1: example of like the realism is it's you know, no
Speaker 1: one is in the space of what a couple weeks
Speaker 1: going to go from being entrenched in thirty five years
Speaker 1: of toxic masculinity to being like, now all my male
Speaker 1: friends and I are talking about our insecurities every day, Like,
Speaker 1: but you see the seeds of it, you see and
Speaker 1: it is I mean we've talked, yeah, like we've talked
Speaker 1: about this on the show before of just like not
Speaker 1: really an emphasis on like healthy friendships between men. It's
Speaker 1: just not something that's emphasized in I mean in society,
Speaker 1: but also in movies When and and and you see
Speaker 1: kind of the repercussions of that through like repression and
Speaker 1: pushing stuff down and not communicating how you're feeling. And
Speaker 1: then you see, you know, like through their friendships, they
Speaker 1: start to feel some relief, they start to see other perspectives,
Speaker 1: They start to realize they're not alone in their insecurities
Speaker 1: and their worries that they thought were just so unique
Speaker 1: to them. It's beautiful, It's really this movie is really nice.
Speaker 1: I like it's much they helped set each other free
Speaker 1: because they learned to be more open and honest. I
Speaker 1: love when the boys set each other free. It's so
Speaker 1: there's this is you know, we're we're We're not in
Speaker 1: the business of endorsing entirely where I'm not in the
Speaker 1: business of endorsing seven or six six or seven men
Speaker 1: on a poster ordinarily. But this movie really is an
Speaker 1: exception to the rule. It's true, it's great. Does it
Speaker 1: pass the Bechdel t I do not believe. So they're
Speaker 1: only scene where women interact with each other is that
Speaker 1: bathroom scene towards the beginning, Jean and her two friends.
Speaker 1: They either talk about Dave or this guy named Frank.
Speaker 1: Most of the time there's like a couple of stray
Speaker 1: exchanges that like technically would pass, except that we don't
Speaker 1: learn the friends names. I do not believe, and they're
Speaker 1: also not characters who ever show up again. So I
Speaker 1: would say that that's not a pass as far as
Speaker 1: our nipple scale, and which we rate the movie on
Speaker 1: a scale of zero to five nipples based on an
Speaker 1: examination of intersectional feminism. So while this is a story
Speaker 1: that centers men and where women are like the side
Speaker 1: like his wife characters or his ex wife characters. Um.
Speaker 1: Even so, because this is a movie that by and
Speaker 1: large explores what toxic standards of masculinity due to men,
Speaker 1: how they affect men negatively, and how the men are
Speaker 1: once they sort of start to set them like to
Speaker 1: try to cast those standards aside and like set themselves
Speaker 1: free of those standards, do they become happier and more successful? Um?
Speaker 1: And people are celebrating them to like at that at
Speaker 1: the end. I don't think we mentioned this yet, but yeah,
Speaker 1: like at the end to like see the boys all
Speaker 1: like comfortable in their own bodies and their whole families
Speaker 1: are like, yes, my confident family member, Like is it, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, if you put yourself in the position of
Speaker 1: like looking at I don't know. I'm like, what I
Speaker 1: want to see my dad in this kind of show. No,
Speaker 1: but I appreciate the sentiment. Horses family, I think they're
Speaker 1: they're right at the end, they're there. I imagine they're
Speaker 1: covering their eyes whenever, or they're just like not looking
Speaker 1: horses direction. Also, Nathan is there. Nathan probably really just
Speaker 1: shouldn't be there around for most of this movie. Um.
Speaker 1: But but with all that in mind. Um. It's a
Speaker 1: story about men who are products of their environment, who
Speaker 1: feel emasculated because of the circumstances and because of this
Speaker 1: patriarchal society that they live in, that start to learn
Speaker 1: to embrace other standards and to embrace healthier options. So
Speaker 1: because of that, I'm going to give this movie this
Speaker 1: is too high. Okay, I'm gonna give it three nibbles.
Speaker 1: I was going to do that as well. And it's
Speaker 1: your birthday, so it's my birthday, and I love this movie,
Speaker 1: so I can do whatever I want. Damn good movie.
Speaker 1: It's so good. It's so funny, I really And while
Speaker 1: the characters do say some aggressive things that are homophobic
Speaker 1: and misogynist, I feel like there's a difference between the
Speaker 1: characters being that way and the movie also subscribing to
Speaker 1: that ideology where a lot of movies, especially from this era,
Speaker 1: the jokes that are being made by the movie are
Speaker 1: like punching down. I don't feel like the movie is
Speaker 1: doing this. The movie isn't menching down. I care that
Speaker 1: they're supposed to look ridiculous when they say these things,
Speaker 1: and and and wrong, I hope, but at least that's
Speaker 1: how I view it. And especially because so much of
Speaker 1: comedy from this era, and most of like comedy movies
Speaker 1: from every decade, we're so reliant on punching down and
Speaker 1: making jokes that were homophobic, racist, sexist, transphobic, ablest, you
Speaker 1: name it. This movie avoids that for the most part,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate that. So, yeah, three nipples. I'll give
Speaker 1: one to horses family. Hell yeah, I will give one
Speaker 1: too Mandy, who I have more of an appreciation for
Speaker 1: than I did as a younger person. And I'll give
Speaker 1: one nipple to the woman who peas on the wall
Speaker 1: while standing up incredible. Yeah, I'll also go with with
Speaker 1: a three here. I think that it is a very
Speaker 1: rare movie that is able to acknowledge toxic masculinity without
Speaker 1: endorsing it like that is such a difficult line to toe,
Speaker 1: and I feel like it ordinarily fails pretty spectacularly. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't hear like I like you're like you were
Speaker 1: saying it is, I feel like that you understand. It's
Speaker 1: interesting to see very flawed male characters presented with empathy
Speaker 1: but also not endorsing what their behaviors and clearly demonstrating
Speaker 1: through the plot and through their arts and through how
Speaker 1: their behaviors affect their relationships, that this is not the
Speaker 1: way to live. I just I it's so well written.
Speaker 1: It blows my mind. I was like, how did man,
Speaker 1: you know you hand it? You gotta hand it to
Speaker 1: them every once in a while. Um. I mean, I
Speaker 1: do think that the two characters that you neglect to
Speaker 1: um create a meaningful home life and backstory. For being
Speaker 1: your only black protagonist and one of your only queer
Speaker 1: characters is uh, perhaps let's say, a bit glaring when
Speaker 1: we are definitely focusing on the home lives of the
Speaker 1: straight white guys. No problem. That is just very and
Speaker 1: um annoying, especially because we know there's room for it. Um. However,
Speaker 1: I just think it is. It is a very well
Speaker 1: crafted story about men working through their ship and also
Speaker 1: working through their ship together you know, and it and
Speaker 1: learning to communicate with each other, with their partners with
Speaker 1: you know, and and and how learning how to communicate.
Speaker 1: Even though it does not lift them out of poverty,
Speaker 1: even though it does not solve the systemic problems, it
Speaker 1: does give them more peace and it gives and it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I like I like when stories and
Speaker 1: just in general and people ask themselves like, are you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's it doesn't end perfectly. You
Speaker 1: know that this one show isn't going to lift them
Speaker 1: all out of solve Solving Industrial unless it does. But like,
Speaker 1: you know, there, there is there, all are all these
Speaker 1: things out of their control, and there are these things
Speaker 1: that are within their control, and it's they're just parsing
Speaker 1: that out throughout the movie and it's just it's really
Speaker 1: cool to watch. Yes, Happy birthday, Thank you. I love
Speaker 1: you so much. I've got your gift and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to show. I was like, I'm not gonna give
Speaker 1: it to you on camera. That would be very you know,
Speaker 1: we need to have our interior life. But um, but
Speaker 1: happy birthday. You're the best. Thank you, Thank you. I
Speaker 1: love you, Jamie, I love you too well everyone, and
Speaker 1: a and a happy birthday to you all. Um. You
Speaker 1: know the stuff. By now follow us on social media.
Speaker 1: Hey for my birthday. Here's what you can do, listeners,
Speaker 1: give us a five star nipple rating on Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1: or wherever you are able to rate podcasts. It's a
Speaker 1: nice thing to do. If you like the show. If
Speaker 1: you don't like the show, keep it to yourself. It
Speaker 1: would it would be such a nice birthday gift if
Speaker 1: you gave me five nipples. Um, if you've got five dollars,
Speaker 1: you can put that toward a Matreon subscription, always an
Speaker 1: option that. There's also merch at t public dot com,
Speaker 1: slash the Bechtel Cast and um yeah, Jamie. Now it's
Speaker 1: time for us to prepare for our live show in
Speaker 1: which you'll see her. I don't know when it is,
Speaker 1: and you might see your butts. Bye bye bye