1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Well, welcome to The Bow Show Podcast, Episode three. Thank 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: you so much for listening, and for those of you 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: that can see this visually, thank you for watching. Today's 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: show is all about survival, resilience, and the pursuit of 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:17,159 Speaker 1: success in spite of adversity. Most of us here in 6 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: America have no idea what it's like to survive literal persecution, 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: because here in America we're very blessed to live in 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: peace that we're not persecuted for our ethnicity, or our 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: skin color, or our religion. But many people unfortunately did 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: not have that luxury. Anti Semitism is still very much 11 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: a real issue, and sadly it's happening at our elite 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: universities where we're supposed to be educating the. 13 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: Best of the best. It's sad that it's happening there. 14 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: And I want to salute those who survived the Holocaust 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: today because they're reminders of humanity, but they're also a 16 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: reminder of what hatred can do and it's left unfettered. 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: There's about two hundred and forty five thousand remaining Holocaust 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: survivors in the world, and about sixty thousand of those 19 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: are still in the United States. And we have one 20 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: of them on the show today. The days of remembrance 21 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: of victims of the Holocaust were from April twentieth through 22 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: the twenty seventh, so we're just coming off of that. 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: In April twenty fourth was Yam HaShoah, which is the 24 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: Holocaust Martyrs and Heroes Remembrance Day, which happens in Israel. 25 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: But we've got to focus on colleges as hot beds 26 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: of anti Semitism. It's become an unexpected place where we're 27 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: seeing this type of persecution and students not allowing other 28 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: students to go to class, people being sympathetic towards little terrorists, 29 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: people who want to see Israel completely wiped off the map. 30 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: Harvard agreed to adopt. 31 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: Stricter language to crack down on anti Jewish and anti 32 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: Israel behavior on campus after Israelian Jewish students complained of 33 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,919 Speaker 1: a hostile environment in the after math of the October seventh, 34 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three Hamas terror attack on. 35 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: Israel and Israel's response. 36 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: Harvard also adopted a definition of anti Semitism by the 37 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. 38 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:17,399 Speaker 2: But is that enough? That's the question? Are those just words? 39 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: Is it just semantics. Should they do more? I think 40 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: they should. 41 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: President Donald Trump is claiming that he will remove Harvard's 42 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: tax exempt status. That's a big thing because there are 43 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: billions of dollars that are attached in tax dollars to 44 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: Harvard that he now can say, wait a minute until 45 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: you can prove to us that you're a safe college 46 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: for all students to be able to practice their religion 47 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: and go to class freely. I'm not so sure that 48 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: we should give you this tax money. And there's no 49 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: one better to ask about this than a man who 50 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: knows anti Semitism all too well by living through its 51 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: darkest time. His story is a remarkable one that I 52 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: think you're going to want to hear every single word 53 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: of and I can't wait to speak to him. Well. 54 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: My guest is Jack Werfol. 55 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: Jack is ninety two years young, and at the outbreak 56 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: of World War Two, he was seven and his brother 57 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: was eight, and they had a Roman Catholic father and 58 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: a Jewish mother. They had to hide their Jewish roots 59 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: by joining Hitler's Youth to avoid going to concentration camps. 60 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: Their mother was seized and taken to Auschwitz, where she died. 61 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: Jack eventually came to America and pursued the American dream. 62 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: And today's show we'll focus on Jack's incredible story and 63 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: all of it is detailed in his autobiography My Two Lives. Well, Jack, 64 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: welcome to the Boushow I really appreciate you being with 65 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: me today. 66 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you Well. 67 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: Jack. 68 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: I want to go back, first of all to your 69 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: earliest days, and I want you to tell me what 70 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: it was like growing up with a Catholic father and 71 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: a Jewish mother and describe your upbringing if you could. 72 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. I originally I remember back to six years old. 73 00:03:53,040 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 3: I was in Austria, living in Niovene Neo Vienna. My 74 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 3: father worked in Vienna for the President of Austria, and 75 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 3: I remember those days very well. For my parents. We 76 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 3: used to go for a nice walks on weekends and 77 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 3: I remember picking my father up from the train every 78 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 3: day he used to go. We lived in a little 79 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 3: place called Gutenstein, and there was a train going from 80 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 3: Vienna to Gutenstein, which he always saw, a very short train, 81 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 3: and we would always pick them up at the train 82 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 3: I remember that. And then they used to turn the train, 83 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 3: the locomotive around for the train to go back to Vienna. 84 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: So these are the kind of things I remember in 85 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 3: our walks up in the mountains, and I always remember 86 00:04:51,839 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 3: these you mongs being snails that were on the way everywhere. 87 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 3: And yeah, that's. 88 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: Enna is a lovely place. I love Austria. 89 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: I had the opportunity to go over there and sing 90 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: for a wedding over there, and I just unfortunately my 91 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: time was so short. I wish I'd spent more time, 92 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: and I'd like to go back. 93 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 3: So I. 94 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: The picture you're describing is a lovely one, and I 95 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: feel like I know at least a glint of it. 96 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: But when you were seven years old, world War two 97 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: breaks out, and how did your family make the decision 98 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: for you and your brother to join Hitler's youth Describe that? 99 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we you know, we we lived in Vienna, 100 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 3: and my father and my mother decided that especially my father, 101 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 3: because of being in the government, knew that Hitler was 102 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 3: going to come to Austria and take Austria over, so 103 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 3: he didn't want my brother and myself to be there, 104 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,799 Speaker 3: so he sent us too of our play to Berlin, 105 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 3: where my grandparents lived, and we lived there and my 106 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 3: mother went to Prague at that time and lived there 107 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 3: for a year or two because she was Jewish and 108 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 3: she was afraid to go back to Berlin and wanted 109 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:22,559 Speaker 3: to go back there. 110 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: So you went to Berlin and your mom went to Prague, 111 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: and so your family obviously made the decision that you 112 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: had to basically hide this part of your heritage, your 113 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: Jewish heritage, from your mother. How hard was it to 114 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: hide that part of your lineage? And did you ever 115 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: think that you and your brother would. 116 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 2: Get caught and sent to a concentration camp. 117 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 3: Yes, we thought about it many times, but we were very, 118 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 3: very careful. The one thing my parents did when they 119 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 3: took us to Berlin, they had us they took us 120 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 3: to a Catholic church and had us both baptized, so 121 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 3: at any time someone would ask us, well, what's your 122 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 3: religion or fill out paper, we could say that we 123 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 3: were Catholic. So that helped tremendously. And then my grandfather, 124 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 3: who had been in the First World War for Germany 125 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 3: in France, he was also stationed in a place where 126 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 3: he felt it would be safe possibly for the for 127 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: US boys to be rather than to be in Berlin. 128 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 3: So he sent us to this little place on the 129 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 3: North Sea called called Dungast and it's on the North 130 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:46,239 Speaker 3: Sea and it was like a little camp for children, 131 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 3: primarily in the summer. And my grandfather sent us there, 132 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 3: and it was going to send us there for maybe 133 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 3: a few months, few weeks, few months, who knows, And 134 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 3: he paid the lady who who ran the place. And 135 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 3: this lady turned out to be just a wonderful woman. 136 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 3: Her name was Irma franzen heinri stav and she had 137 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 3: two children, a boy and a daughter, and they were 138 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 3: a few years older than we were, quite a bit older, 139 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 3: like five eight, ten years older than we were, and 140 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 3: they were in the Hitler Youth. Because this was a 141 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 3: German family, and the lady Irma we called her Tunda 142 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 3: and Irma she decided that we better use joined the 143 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 3: Hitler Youth because her children were in the Hitler Youth. 144 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 3: They had to be, and if we were going to 145 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 3: live with them, we should be in the Hitler youth 146 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 3: also because if not, people would come to them and say, 147 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 3: what are these kid kids doing here? Why aren't they 148 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 3: in the Hitler youth. I mean, every child had to 149 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 3: be in the Hitler youth. If you're not in the 150 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 3: Hitler youth, who are in a concentuation camp. 151 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,599 Speaker 1: You know, so, so did you as part of the 152 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: Hitler youth did you have to It sounds like you're 153 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: basically forced to kind of in a way and self preservation. 154 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 1: Did you have to adopt any sort of anti Jewish stance? 155 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: Was that required at the time? And it must have 156 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: been difficult having to hide that part of your heritage? 157 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: Did I mean, did they force you to take an 158 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: anti Jewish stance at that time? 159 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 3: Well, they didn't know, you know, no wonder really know. 160 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 3: Tantema was the only one who knew. And we would 161 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 3: go to school in this little village on the North Sea, 162 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 3: and every morning when we went to school, we had 163 00:09:54,880 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 3: to sing anti Jewish songs. These things were all very 164 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 3: difficult for my brother and myself, but we kept saying 165 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 3: that this is what we're going to have to do 166 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 3: if we want to stay alive, and that's that's what 167 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 3: we did. And eventually it turned out that my teacher, 168 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 3: he taught us till one o'clock in the afternoon and 169 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 3: then he would get on his motorcycle, put on his 170 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 3: black uniform and go to meetings. And these were SS meetings. 171 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 3: He was an SS officer. My teacher and my teacher 172 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 3: happened to be a very very good friend of Tandauma, 173 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 3: the woman who ran the camp where we lived, and 174 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 3: both of them knew that we were Jewish. Even my teacher, 175 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 3: as an SS officer, knew that we were Jewish, so. 176 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: And still protected. He protected and then kept let you 177 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: keep that secret. 178 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 3: Absolutely well, absolutely so. 179 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: And your mother was in Prague. I know it had 180 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: been difficult to be separated for her from her. Tell 181 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: me about the day that the Nazis came to take 182 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: her away. 183 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, when Hitler walked into Czechoslovakia and took over Czechoslovakia, 184 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 3: there were a lot of Jewish people there, and especially 185 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 3: in Prague. They were immediately being incarcerated and ten sent 186 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: to various concentration camps. And my mother somehow got on 187 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 3: a train. It was supposed to be a cold train. 188 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 3: As I understand, we were too small to remember all 189 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 3: of this so to know this well to see it. 190 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 3: But she was on a cold train and came back 191 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 3: to her parents in Berlin. And while she was in 192 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 3: Berlin we went. We left our camp on the North 193 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 3: Sea for a little while and joined our mother, who 194 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 3: had an apartment in to live with her for a 195 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 3: little while as long as we could, and I started 196 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 3: school there and so that my brother. And one day 197 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 3: my mother said, well, I got a little job for you. 198 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 3: I have a letter here in an envelope, and I 199 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 3: would like you to take the subway. And we lived 200 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 3: right around the corner from the subway, and go to 201 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 3: a certain station, change trains, go to another train, and 202 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 3: when you arrive at a certain station again, you go 203 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 3: up the steps and there will be a gentleman and 204 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 3: you give him a code word. And she told us 205 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 3: the code word, and the gentleman will answer and will 206 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 3: give you and you give him the envelope, and he 207 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 3: will give you an envelope for me. So all of 208 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 3: this was done. We were coming back to our home, 209 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 3: to our and this was in Berlin, in the mining castraset. 210 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 3: And as we came to the corner to come around 211 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 3: to go to the mining costratt where we could see 212 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 3: my mother's place. She lived in a large apartment building 213 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 3: at that time. And we saw that building and we 214 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 3: saw that there were a number of SS and Gestapo 215 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 3: cars parked in front of her building, and we thought, 216 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 3: oh my god, we better wait here and see what 217 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 3: this is all about. We were smart enough to do 218 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 3: that in retrospect, you know. And we waited there on 219 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 3: the corner and just watched, and we figured out when 220 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 3: this is all over and the cars are leaving in 221 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 3: the SS and Guestapo, then we could ask our mother 222 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 3: of what was going on in that building. Well, to 223 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 3: our great surprise, all of a sudden, they brought out 224 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,839 Speaker 3: my mother and it was her they evidently were coming 225 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 3: to get They put her in a car and left 226 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 3: with her and arrested her, and all the cars left. 227 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 2: Well, Jack, did you did you see her? 228 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: Was there any eye contact between you and her, your 229 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: you and your brother and her that in the final 230 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: moments of this, is it my mom's going to be 231 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: taken away? 232 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 3: No? Not at that point. No, we were too far away, 233 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 3: you know, half a block away. There was no eye contact. 234 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 3: They just took her away. 235 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 2: Was that the last day that you saw her? 236 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 3: No. Let me tell you that my mother had given 237 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 3: us the name of an attorney that if anything ever 238 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 3: should happen to me, here is the name of a person. 239 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 3: You call him and he will try to help you 240 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 3: to take care of your if I'm not around. So 241 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 3: we stayed there and it took us three day as 242 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 3: my brother and myself to find out which prison my 243 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 3: mother was taken to and where she was. And Peter 244 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 3: and I as little kids, we went to that prison 245 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 3: and just walked to the prison and we started looking 246 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 3: for her, and we saw her down below in the park, 247 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 3: walking with other people in the prison, and it was 248 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 3: kind of a park down below and in the prison itself, 249 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 3: and we watched her from a hallway and then they 250 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 3: all disappeared and they all had to go back to 251 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 3: their cells, I guess, And we had no idea where 252 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 3: my mother was and what sell. So we walked through 253 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 3: the whole prison. There's little kids, and it were was 254 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 3: asked people there. No one paid any attention to us 255 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 3: because I guess we were so little, you know, so young. 256 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 3: And we finally found the cell and we found my mother, 257 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 3: and my mother was of course terribly surprised, and she said, boys, 258 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 3: she said, you have to leave, because if you don't 259 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 3: leave immediately, the same thing is going to happen to 260 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 3: you that's going to happen to me. So be good, 261 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 3: go to school, learn whatever you can in life, and 262 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 3: be good until I see you again someday hopefully, and leave. 263 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 3: And we left and as we got to the final 264 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 3: gate of the prison. Yeah, there was an SS or 265 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 3: Gestapo officer who who grabbed us and said, what the 266 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 3: heck are you kids doing here? And we wrestled ourselves 267 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 3: loose from this gentleman and started to running through the 268 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 3: bilin through the streets, and he followed us, but at 269 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 3: our age we were a little quicker than he was, 270 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 3: so we finally we finally lost him. Uh. After that, 271 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 3: my mother was taken from that prison to our shirts. 272 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 2: And how did you learn it? From passing? 273 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 3: Yes? And later on we found out through the SS 274 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 3: officer who was our teacher in done Gus, in that 275 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 3: little village where we were hiding in the North Sea, 276 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 3: we found out to him that my mother was killed 277 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 3: in our shirts. Now that see to me, that's sound 278 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 3: of all the people. 279 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 2: For sure. 280 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: But I imagine for for for for young Jack and Petie. 281 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: I mean, this is this is a terrible chapter in 282 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: your lives because you lost your mother. I mean, this 283 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: is this is what Hitler did. And so I want 284 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: to know that that had to be devastating for you 285 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: any is, especially as we think about coming up on 286 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: Mother's Day on May eleventh, how difficult that had to 287 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: have been. 288 00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 2: Did you did you ever. 289 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: Think that there was a chance you might be reunited 290 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: with her or did you boys kind of understand there's 291 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: a good possibility I may not see her again. 292 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, we knew that there was a possibility because we 293 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 3: knew what Hitler was doing, and we were already informed 294 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 3: as to what happened to some of the people that 295 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 3: left to go east, that they weren't going east to work, 296 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 3: but rather going east to get. 297 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: That care And Jack, where was your father and all this, 298 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: Is there anything he could do or did he just 299 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: kind of have to stand back and let it happen. 300 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 3: Well, my father who was working for the president of Austria, 301 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 3: they were good friends. They were both arrested when Hitler 302 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 3: came into Austria and they were taken to a German 303 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 3: concentration camp called They was right right north of Berlin, 304 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 3: and they stayed there for a long long time. And 305 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 3: my father was never released out of the concentration camps 306 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 3: until the war was over, and he was then released 307 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 3: by the American troops. But unfortunately he was so sick 308 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 3: and so undernourished that he died two months later and 309 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 3: we never saw him. We never even knew about it 310 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 3: at that time. I went later to Austria to get 311 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 3: all the details and find out what happened. And so 312 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 3: our mother, as I said it, was killed in Auschwitz, 313 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 3: and our father was in the concentration time the entire time. However, 314 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 3: my father escaped twice, and the first time he escaped 315 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 3: was before my mother was when she came back from Czechoslovakia, 316 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 3: before she was arrested by the Germans. She and my 317 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 3: father came to see us as youngist on the beach. 318 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 3: The last time really uh that we saw them together, 319 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: that we saw my father and my mother, and then 320 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 3: my father went back, oh, and then people and then 321 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 3: the little village where we lived on the North Sea, 322 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 3: they of course started saying, well, what is this man 323 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 3: doing here? Everybody else that's in the army, why is 324 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 3: he here with the children? You know. So my mother 325 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 3: and father over you know, disappeared overnight and we never 326 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 3: saw them. And again after that, and my father was arrested, 327 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 3: of course when he went back to Berlin, and there 328 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 3: was terribly penn punished by the by the Germans, by 329 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 3: the stuff by the leader of the concentration camp. And 330 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 3: later on after the war, when I went to the camp, 331 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 3: I found information about my father and what happened to 332 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 3: him and so on. 333 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: So you lose, you lose your mother and your father, 334 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: which is undoubtedly devastating. And you find out that your 335 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: father escaped twice, but yet he was so malnourished after 336 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: the war's over in the in the liberation that he dies. 337 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 1: So now are your orphans at this point? 338 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 2: Tell me? 339 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: You know, this is I'm sure where the resilience part 340 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: of the story comes in. 341 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 2: How did you make it to America after the war. 342 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 3: Well, we were very lucky that in nineteen fifty we 343 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 3: got a call from the German army in southern Germany, 344 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 3: the occupation troops that they had found about my father 345 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 3: working for sure Shnaik, the president of Austria, and what 346 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 3: happened to my mother. And they said, a few boys, 347 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 3: I want to go to America. We're giving you the 348 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 3: opportunity through an organization that takes care of Catholic as 349 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 3: well as Jewish, Jewish and as well as Catholic children. 350 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 3: So of course we applied immediately, we said yes, and 351 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 3: that's how and they took us, put us on an airplane, 352 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 3: and a few weeks later and we ended up in 353 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 3: New York. 354 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,479 Speaker 2: What was the organization that that got you over? 355 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 3: Do you recall, Yeah, the European Organization for Care of 356 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 3: organization for European Children. 357 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: Well, so you come to America, which is I'm sure 358 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: a dream for you, considering what you've been through. What 359 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: was the what was the reception like here in America 360 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:56,719 Speaker 1: when you got here? 361 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 2: What was that like? 362 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 3: Wonderful? Wonderful in every way? You know, I was so happy. 363 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 3: I was the happiest man in the world that I 364 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 3: came to America. And I knew about the freedom and 365 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 3: the rules of the laws, a little bit about what 366 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 3: America was all about, and yeah, and that's where I 367 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 3: wanted to go. And here I was in New York 368 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 3: and I was very very happy. 369 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: Well, you talk about the fact that you took classes 370 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: in Baltimore to learn English, which you speak very well. 371 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: You became a citizen, and you served even in the 372 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: US Army, which I think is very noble. What made 373 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: you join our armed forces? Was it seeing what America 374 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: had done in World War Two and liberating. 375 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 2: The free world? Is I mean? Is that what made 376 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 2: you want to join? What were the reasons you joined? 377 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 3: Well, I know it wasn't voluntarily. I was in the 378 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 3: United States for three years by then and had learned 379 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 3: English and went to school and had job and all 380 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 3: of that. After I learned English, I had kept into 381 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 3: a job with an insurance company and UH. Then I 382 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 3: was drafted, and this was during the Korean War. I 383 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 3: had no choice. I was drafted to go to go 384 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 3: into the army. And I then when when I applied, 385 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 3: they said, would you like to go to Officers Candidate School? 386 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 3: And I said yes, I would, I would do that, 387 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 3: and then I was supposed to be assigned to that. 388 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 3: And then they came back and said, oh, we just 389 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 3: found out you're another citizen. No, you can't go to 390 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 3: Officers Candidate Candidate School, but you can go to UH 391 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 3: to career, you know, being the regular Army. So I 392 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 3: went to Camp Breckenridge, which is the first airborne division 393 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 3: to take basic training. Took the basic training, and just 394 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 3: plus we were finished and you were all leaving for Korea. 395 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 3: All of a sudden they called me and they said, hey, 396 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 3: we just found out from your Form twenty Form twenties 397 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 3: all your personal information. Did you speak German fluently? I 398 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 3: said yes, Well, the American Army in Germany needs desperately 399 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 3: interpreters who speak German, because at that time we were 400 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 3: training or already the German people again as a German army, 401 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 3: because the Russians were right there, you know, in Germany, 402 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 3: and so we wanted the German army. You know, we 403 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,479 Speaker 3: had the American, the French, English, you know, we were 404 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 3: all there and they all had particular zones, and the 405 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 3: Russians had about half of Germany at that time. So 406 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 3: that's how I got into the. 407 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: What a turn of events, Jack, You have Jewish heritage, 408 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: you have to hide it to become part of Hitler's youth. 409 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: Mother and your father die, so you know. But and 410 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: you there was obviously a chance you could even be 411 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: sent to a concentration camp as well. America and the 412 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: West they liberate, you know, the area, and then you 413 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: come to America only to be drafted in the army 414 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: and go back to Germany to be an interpreter for US. 415 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: I mean, that's about as incredible a cycle is one 416 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: can imagine. 417 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I tell you another incredible story. When I was 418 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 3: ten years old, that's for silvi Uri the war. My 419 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 3: brother and I at night sometimes we would listen to 420 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 3: the British Broadcasting company to find out what the news 421 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 3: really was, because the Germans wouldn't tell us the German news. 422 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 3: So one day, oh my god, we were so happy 423 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 3: we heard that D Day happened, that the American and 424 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 3: the French and other forces were landing in Normandy. And 425 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 3: we said, oh my god, if that happens, you know, 426 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 3: and they're successful, then it's the end of this Hitler's 427 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 3: regime and all of that. So we were extremely happy 428 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 3: that we heard about D Day, and we kind of 429 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 3: celebrated D Day in our own way. And I was 430 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 3: ten years old. Then now we go back to where 431 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 3: I'm in the army in Germany, okay, And in the 432 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 3: army one day I was called by the company commander 433 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 3: and he said, you know, I've been watching you and 434 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 3: you have a very straight walk, and you walk well 435 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 3: and do things well. I would like to ask you 436 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 3: if you would volunteer to be in the Color God 437 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 3: for the first Infantry Division in which I had been 438 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 3: assigned to in Germany. And I said, yeah, it would 439 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 3: be my honor. So now I was in the Color 440 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 3: God and every time there was a major parade, I 441 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 3: had to of course be in the Color Guard. And 442 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 3: one day they called me in and they said, you're 443 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 3: going to Friends. I said, why am I going to France? 444 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 3: He said, you're going to Normandy. There is a ten 445 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 3: year anniversary of D Day, and we want you, with 446 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 3: your Color God to go to Normandy and celebrate, help 447 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 3: celebrate as a color guard. 448 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 2: How did that make you feel, to be holding up 449 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 2: the American flag and knowing back when you were ten 450 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 2: years old that you were listening to the very broadcast 451 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 2: where D Day was announced. 452 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 3: I can't tell you how proud I was, how happy 453 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 3: I was. It was one of the most amazing things 454 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 3: that all of a sudden, here I could carry the 455 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 3: American flag, protect the American flag and go to Normandy. 456 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 3: And we went. We had to do things like at 457 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 3: five o'clock in the morning. One morning they woke us 458 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 3: up and they said, Color God has to be down 459 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 3: at the beach. Why because there is the grave for 460 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 3: General Roosevelt, who was a son of President Roosevelt, who 461 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 3: was killed during the Normandy invasion, and he was buried 462 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 3: there and we want you there and Brugler, And at 463 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 3: five o'clock in the morning we were down in the 464 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 3: British Channel where he was buried and held up the 465 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 3: flag and the burglar played and the sun was rising over. 466 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 3: I mean, I can't tell you how proud of I was, 467 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 3: how proud I was, little guy from Austria, and what 468 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 3: I went through and what happened to my entire family 469 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 3: was not just my father, mother, but I lost my 470 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 3: entire family gen parents, uncles, ants, everybody except one person 471 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 3: who into Palestine during the war and he lived. He's 472 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 3: the only one of my family. Well, so yeah, I 473 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 3: mean Normandy was fantastic to me, and I still celebrate 474 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 3: Normandy every year now, you know. 475 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 476 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 3: I think we recently had the eighties anniversary or something, 477 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 3: and my daughter and her husband put the Normandy flag 478 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 3: out in front of my house. And I can't tell 479 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 3: you how proud I was. 480 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: You know, it seems only fitting that you would be 481 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: the one carrying the flag for this event, and I 482 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: can understand why it would be, why it would fill 483 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: you with pride. I think it makes absolute sense. You 484 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: mentioned when you came over to America that you started 485 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: an insurance company, Diversified Insurance Industries, which is a big, 486 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,719 Speaker 1: big company. How did you do that, because that's another 487 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: chapter of your life that even extends this idea of 488 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: the American dream. 489 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. First, when I learned English, I worked in a 490 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 3: necktime factory while I was going to school learning English 491 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 3: because I didn't speak English. And during one year of 492 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 3: working in the necktime factory, I had learned English, and 493 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 3: I looked for another job and found a job in 494 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 3: a large insurance company and worked there for a couple 495 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 3: of years, went further to school, and then I was drafted, 496 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 3: and when I came back from the Army, I went 497 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 3: back to that job. And then I realized that working 498 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 3: for an insurance company you were an employee. I wanted 499 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 3: to be independent. So I worked for a small insurance 500 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 3: company for a while, insurance agency rather where insurance was 501 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 3: being sold, and I sold insurance and I was able 502 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 3: to keep my own business. And a few years later 503 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 3: I left there with my own accounts and started to 504 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 3: versified the insurance with two people, and today we have 505 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 3: closed to I don't think it's ninety or one hundred people. 506 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:11,479 Speaker 3: I don't know. 507 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 2: It's amazing. 508 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 3: Now. 509 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: I got to ask you, when you went to school 510 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: here and you were learning English, did you experience any 511 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: anti Semitism in your educational experience here? 512 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 3: No? None, at all, none at all. I tell you 513 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 3: the only time I ever experienced it when I worked 514 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 3: for the insurance company. The guy who was running the 515 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 3: office asked me to take his car I didn't have 516 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 3: a car, and drive around to Chesapeake Bay, around Baltimore 517 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 3: in that area and find a place where we could 518 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 3: have a company business. So I did so. I went 519 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 3: to all these nice beaches along the ocean along the 520 00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 3: Chesapeake Bay, and I found out that everywhere away they 521 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 3: had signs no Blacks and Jews allowed. And that was 522 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 3: the only. 523 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 2: Time, the only time you saw it in all. 524 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 3: My years until recently, that I had felt any other. 525 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: And you said, and you said the proper words. Recently, 526 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: you're ninety two years old, You've been through this entire experience. 527 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: You know anti Semitism more than anybody because you lived 528 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: through the Holocaust and survived it. How do you feel then, 529 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: when you see Harvard and Columbia and some of these 530 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: places where you've got protests where there's a severe antisemitic 531 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: component to it, where people are sympathizing with those who 532 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: want to see Jews in Israel wiped off the map, 533 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: just as Hitler did. 534 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 3: Horrible, horrible, I never never, expected anything like this, never, 535 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 3: especially not Harvard at schools of that sort. It was 536 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 3: absolutely terrible. And well, there asn't much I personally could do. 537 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 3: But I wrote a book that my daughter, Data asked 538 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 3: me to write about the family and my life, about 539 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,720 Speaker 3: my life starting with Austria and ending up today. 540 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,359 Speaker 2: Right right the book. 541 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 3: Many people had asked me to write a book, but 542 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 3: I always said, well, there were thousands of millions of 543 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 3: other people who had the same type of problem in 544 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 3: Germany at that time and ended up pretty much the 545 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 3: way I did, hopefully, And there i'm people who can 546 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 3: write much better than I can. I'm not a guider. 547 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 3: But Data wouldn't let up, and she said that you've 548 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 3: got to write that book. You got to die, and 549 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 3: you've got to do it. And if there is anyone 550 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 3: that I can listen to and not say no to, 551 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 3: is my daughter did. 552 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: So Yeah, well, I'm glad you wrote the book because 553 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: it's important to hear stories like this. And so when 554 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: you look at Harvard and I read you know, you 555 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: applauded the fact that they adopted stronger language. 556 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 2: But I guess my question to you, Jack, is is 557 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 2: that enough? 558 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: Because I feel like you know adopting stronger language, that's great. 559 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: But when you see the fact that some of our 560 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: higher institutions of learning still permit this kind of hatred 561 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: and would prevent Jewish students from even going to class 562 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: and create this climate of fear, do you think it's enough? 563 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 2: It should Harvard be doing more. 564 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 3: Well. I think Harvard just came out with a special 565 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 3: report that I haven't read, but it's pages pages long. 566 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 3: And I think that's due to our present government, that 567 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 3: they've our present president that they were behind this and 568 00:35:54,160 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 3: asked the universities in Harvard to make these statements and 569 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 3: changed their mind and protect the people who go to 570 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 3: school there and not be antisemitic all the time. And 571 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 3: this is what happened. How is finally going to end up? 572 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 3: I don't know, but I tell you one thing, I'm 573 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 3: worried about it because what's happening here right now is 574 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 3: what happened in Germany in a different form, in a 575 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 3: different way, you know. But it also started like this. 576 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 3: There was no Hitler and there was no Second World 577 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 3: War at that time. You know. It all started with 578 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 3: something like what this is here? What's going on here? 579 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 3: And it finally became the Hitler regime and the Second 580 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 3: World War, and. 581 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,439 Speaker 2: I don't know, you hit the nail on the head. 582 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:53,399 Speaker 2: You're exactly right. 583 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 1: It didn't even take Hitler yet to have what happened 584 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: in Germany happened here. 585 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 2: And that's what we're saying. I think that's the part. 586 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: That's got to be rooted out so quickly, because it's 587 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: dangerous for you to see that happening here because you 588 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: know exactly what happened over there. Well, Jack, I got 589 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: to ask you, also in a hopeful way, about this 590 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 1: amazing piece of art that belonged to your family that 591 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,359 Speaker 1: the Nazis stole from you, called the hell Erosen and 592 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: how you got it back, which is pretty similar to 593 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: the plot of the movie Woman and Gold. Tell me 594 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: about this piece of art and how you got it back. 595 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, my two uncles and my grandfather they 596 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 3: were in business together and they made a lot of money, 597 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,439 Speaker 3: and they had several department stores and they bought art, 598 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 3: and my grandfather bought three paintings by Lover's cointh and 599 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 3: these were very valuable paintings. And after the war was over, 600 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 3: you know, we looked for all these various things that 601 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 3: were taken away from my family, and it was very, 602 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 3: very difficult, but we found in one museum in Germany 603 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 3: called brown Schweite Germany. In the museum was one of 604 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 3: the lovers corinth paintings that belonged to us. How it 605 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 3: got that there, we don't know. And we told them 606 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 3: that this was our painting and to give it back 607 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 3: to us. Simply went to the all kinds of trouble 608 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 3: for a couple of years and to the German government 609 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 3: and everything else, that this was our painting and we 610 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 3: wanted to painting back, and they didn't give it back 611 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 3: to us. So I think he's a well, he's a cousin, 612 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, who went with his He was a 613 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 3: young cousin who a young man who was married and 614 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 3: had two children, and he was the son of one 615 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 3: of my two uncles that I mentioned, idol uncle, and 616 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 3: he decided to go to Palestine during the war and 617 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 3: he did and he was successful. So he also heard 618 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 3: about this painting and our trials to get it back 619 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 3: and we couldn't get it back, so they wrote he 620 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:29,439 Speaker 3: wrote an article to one of the famous American magazines 621 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 3: like Life or Time or whichever Wall Street journal. I 622 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 3: don't really know which one and wrote an article in 623 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:45,880 Speaker 3: there to explain what happened to us and what happened 624 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 3: to the Germans, how they got all the stuff that 625 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 3: we owned, and how now we found this painting in 626 00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 3: a German musell yeah, museum, and and that we wanted 627 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 3: it back and we couldn't get it back. After that 628 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 3: article ran, and I guess millions of Germans and government 629 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 3: people had this article. I guess Germany was pretty much 630 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 3: a shame as to what they did by turning this 631 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 3: down because knowing that it was ours, so we had 632 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 3: total proof that it was our painting. And then eventually 633 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 3: they said, okay, you can have you can have the painting. 634 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 3: They didn't have the money, so they went to Volkswagen, 635 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 3: who was the biggest employer in brown Schwike. I don't 636 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 3: know that thousands of employees there, and got the money 637 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 3: together and we bought, uh, we bought the painting. We 638 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 3: could have got it back, but we parted from them 639 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 3: and it's still they gave it to you guys with 640 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 3: the money. Yeah, and the painting is still in the 641 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,320 Speaker 3: museum today. It's still there. But we got the money 642 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,839 Speaker 3: for it. And at that time, and I made a 643 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,240 Speaker 3: copy of close off the painting and have it hanging 644 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 3: in my house. 645 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: Well, that's an incredible story. I wish they had given 646 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: it back to you rather than you having to purchase it. 647 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: Seems like you went to a lot of trouble to 648 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: get it, But just that speaks to a lot of 649 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: the theft that the Nazis perpetrated at the time. Well, Jack, 650 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 1: just to kind of close out our time here because 651 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,800 Speaker 1: I've enjoyed it so much. Your story, is I mentioned 652 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: in the top of the show, is one of tremendous adversity, 653 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 1: but also survival and perseverance and coming into an American dream. 654 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 2: So to those who have who have had to. 655 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,160 Speaker 1: Overcome great obstacles and need to find the sustenance to 656 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,320 Speaker 1: dream big and persevere. What is your message to people 657 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: out there? 658 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,439 Speaker 3: Don't become anti Semitism of what have the Jews done? 659 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,879 Speaker 3: Explained it to me. What have they What have they 660 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 3: ever done that's bad? Have they ever started a war? 661 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 3: Have they ever done what m asked it? That type 662 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,919 Speaker 3: of thing? And if they want to wound their own 663 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 3: country and their own reputation here in this country, then 664 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 3: that's a very very sad thing for the entire world. 665 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 3: Because it not only would be here, it would be 666 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 3: properly in other countries too then, and you know that's 667 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,879 Speaker 3: this anti Semitism is all over the world right now, 668 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 3: in many countries. So they they should they should remember 669 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,880 Speaker 3: what happened during the Third World War and with Ada 670 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 3: Hitdler in Germany, and they should remember that and know 671 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 3: what happened there and how many people were killed. You know, 672 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 3: it was just just impossible to believe that that could happen, 673 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,359 Speaker 3: that human beings could do what they did. I mean 674 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,959 Speaker 3: they built Cam's death cams. Auschwitz was a death camp. 675 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 3: Did the whole camp was built. How can we kill 676 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 3: as many people as possible? And that's what they did. 677 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 4: You know, The trains with people came in every day 678 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,640 Speaker 4: and the people were killed in gas chambers and as 679 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 4: you know, burnd in ovens and just terrible. 680 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 3: And we don't want this to happen here, do no. 681 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: We have to remember our history or it will repeat itself. 682 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: I think that's what I think, that's what we take 683 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: away from this. So Jack Warfle, thank you so very 684 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,360 Speaker 1: much for spending your time with me today and telling 685 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,920 Speaker 1: me the story of your childhood and your adulthood and 686 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,239 Speaker 1: the history of the incredible legacy that you are are 687 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,479 Speaker 1: creating as a ninety two year old man. And also 688 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 1: this book, My Two Lives, which I hope people will 689 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 1: go get and read because we just basically summarized it today, 690 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,640 Speaker 1: but I know there's some incredible other stories in there, 691 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,239 Speaker 1: including how you got this piece of artwork back, which 692 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:55,279 Speaker 1: I think is remarkable too. 693 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,919 Speaker 2: So thank you, sir. I appreciate your time, and God 694 00:43:57,960 --> 00:43:59,399 Speaker 2: bless you. I appreciate your time. 695 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you very much. I enjoyed being with you, 696 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,919 Speaker 3: and it's important and I can get my word out 697 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 3: and that people hear it. 698 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's what that's what the purpose this is for. 699 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: So those of you that are listening on iHeart podcast, 700 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: make sure you listen to Jack's story, read his book, 701 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: and I think, just as importantly get his message out there, because, 702 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: as he said so succinctly, if we don't remember the 703 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 1: terrible historic period of World War two and what happened, 704 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,800 Speaker 1: it is bound to repeat itself. And unfortunately, we're seeing 705 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,879 Speaker 1: semblances of that in America in this country right now, 706 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,319 Speaker 1: which is the most unfortunate part of it. 707 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 2: So Jack, thank you so much. 708 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, aren't the sad thing is that most people don't 709 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 3: even know about it. You know, younger people don't even 710 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 3: know what happened during those period of times in what 711 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:51,839 Speaker 3: happened exactly right, you're exactly why does schools here in 712 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,399 Speaker 3: this country don't teach that more that people know it, 713 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:56,920 Speaker 3: but they don't know. 714 00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,440 Speaker 1: It, right, And that's and you bring up a great point 715 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: just to close this out, is with Harvard's supposed to 716 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: be some of our greatest minds, how in the world 717 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: could they permit anti semitism when every student there should 718 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: know what the history of this country is and what 719 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 1: we had to fight against and the freedom that was 720 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,279 Speaker 1: created from it. So you would think that at one 721 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 1: of our better institutions of learning that that would not 722 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,839 Speaker 1: be the case, But unfortunately, it seems like a lot 723 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: of people have forgotten that history. 724 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:27,800 Speaker 3: Jock, exactly. 725 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Jack, appreciate you, thank you, Bo, thank you, 726 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:32,840 Speaker 1: thank you.