1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson, 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frying. One of our episodes this week 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: was about Mississippi Freedom Summer. We mentioned a couple of 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: times in the episode the podcast uh CN on Radio 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: and their series The Land That Has Never Been Yet 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: in their episode on Freedom Summer. Something we didn't mention, 8 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: but which I watched as part of the research and 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: background into all of this was the Freedom Summer documentary 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: that came out in and was aired on PBS American Experience. 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,639 Speaker 1: You can currently watch it on the PBS website UM 12 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: that has a lot of interviews with people who were 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: involved and archival footage from the time. That is where 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: I heard that that phone call between Johnson and Hoover 15 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: about Rita Schwerner. One of the things that was really 16 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: striking to me about this particular documentary is it reinforced 17 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: how young everyone was UM. Because this took place in 18 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four, a lot of the volunteers were in 19 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: their early twenties, a lot of the organizers or maybe 20 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: into their later twenties, So people were doing these interviews 21 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: when they were, um, you know, in their sixties. Uh. 22 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: Everybody looked really young, except for Pete Seeger, who was 23 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: also because of his work with music during the Civil 24 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: rights movement, and Pizza her looked ancient. He was significantly 25 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: older than a lot of the other people interviewed. But 26 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: it was just this huge contrast of like number one, 27 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: reminding me of how recent this was and how young 28 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: everyone was, and then also this contrast of like, and 29 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: then here's Pizza here, who looks like a grizzled old man. Pete. Yeah, 30 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: every time I come across something about Pizza gar, I'd 31 00:01:58,440 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: like kind of go, I want to do an episode 32 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: of about Pizza here one day. Yeah. Yeah, this episode, 33 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: like many, it is hard. I will give us away 34 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: and say that we just stop a number of times. Yeah, 35 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: I get so angry. I start to cry sometimes, which 36 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 1: is not fun, but I think understandable. I imagine listeners 37 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: sometimes experience the same things. Um humans. Yeah. One of 38 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: the things that's frustrating for me is the thing that 39 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,119 Speaker 1: we touched on at the end about um, how there 40 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: is still a lot of voter suppression and a lot 41 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: of discriminatory laws surrounding voting. Um that still exists today 42 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: and have been sort of creeping forward in a lot 43 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: of ways, UM with the most recent presidential election being 44 00:02:52,919 --> 00:03:01,119 Speaker 1: so focused on like unfounded allegations of fraud that nobody 45 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: has actual evidence that holds up for um, and a 46 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: fear that that trend is going to escalate, Like there 47 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: that is a response to do baseless accusations of fraud, 48 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: There will be further laws to make it harder for 49 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: people to vote that are probably going to disproportionately affect 50 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: the people that have historically had the hardest time voting already. 51 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: I hope not, but yes, that is an ongoing fear 52 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah again, so angry tears. We've gotten a 53 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: couple of emails from people when we have previously referenced 54 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: the unsubstantiated allegations of fraud, from people who have been 55 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: really angry about how we need to tell both sides 56 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: of the story. So I just want to take a 57 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: moment and say that there aren't two sides of this story. 58 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: There just aren't. There is the true side, which is 59 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: that there are baseless allegations of fraud that have really 60 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: sewed a lot of doubt in a lot of people's minds, 61 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: but like unsubstantiated means unsubstantiated and in some cases demonstrably false. Um. So, 62 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: like that has just made the whole thing deeply frustrating 63 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: and frightening in terms of like what happens next, in 64 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: terms of um the idea that we're supposed to be 65 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: a democracy where everybody can vote, and whether that's true 66 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: or not. I feel like we should say something peppy 67 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: here at the end, because normally we get to the 68 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: end of these and I kind of go, that feels 69 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: like a good stopping place, and like that felt like 70 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: a stopping place, but not necessarily a good one. Um. 71 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: I imagine our email and Twitter mentions will be full 72 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: of well actually emails from people saying that you have 73 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: to have an ID to write a check, so why 74 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: not to vote? And uh man, there's just so much 75 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: information on that easily available on the internet. What information? What? Yeah? 76 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: So how you you mentioned that there were some time 77 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: that they were just um like angry tears and we 78 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: had to take a minute. And often when there is 79 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: something really sad happening in in an episode, you have 80 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: a trick that you do to try to to to 81 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: sort of compartmentalize it. In your mind, right, that helps 82 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: me get rid of it. It doesn't work when you're 83 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: already angry and not sad, which is that Normally, if 84 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: I am weepy over something in an episode, I pretend 85 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: I'm B Arthur because b wouldn't cry, she would get 86 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: mad and address the problem. But when you're already angry, 87 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: that doesn't fix it. Just get more mad, stay mad. 88 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: My My other trick is to think of odd Star 89 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: Wars characters that make me laugh, and sometimes that works 90 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: in a situation like this, but really be Arthur is 91 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,119 Speaker 1: always the good go to, and it doesn't It doesn't 92 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: work in this scenario. Yeah, this week we talked about 93 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: w Montague Cobb, and I just want to tell the 94 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: story of how this wound up. Finally on my episodes 95 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: to do UM often when I am out and about 96 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: in the world, which of course is not something that's 97 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: really happening now. I'm obviously not laughing at the pandemic, 98 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: just that we all have come to just live in 99 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: this strange time where we're like, I guess I live 100 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: in my house all the time. Yeah, yeah, so in uh, 101 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: in the before times, UM, if I would be at 102 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: it about somewhere and I would see something that caught 103 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: my eye for a potential podcast subject, I would just 104 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 1: put it in a note in my phone, because a 105 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: lot of times, if I am out and about in 106 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: the world, i'm taking a break. I don't want to 107 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: devote a whole lot of mental time and space to work. 108 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: But I also don't want to lose ideas that I 109 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: stumble across it seemed like they could be really interesting. 110 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: So then the downside to that is sometimes years will 111 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: pass between when I put something in a note in 112 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,679 Speaker 1: my phone and when I put the phone notes into 113 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: any kind of more usable list of ideas. So back 114 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: in I think t eighteen, you and I were in Washington, 115 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: d c UM for a tour, and I went to 116 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: the National Museum of African American History and Culture, and 117 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: I wrote down like six or seven things on little 118 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: note in my phone. W Montagu Cob was one of them. 119 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: I have no recollection of what the context was, like, 120 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: what specific thing I had seen at the museum that 121 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: made me go, oh, this would make a really good 122 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: topic for the show. Um. But I did not actually 123 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: put the note that I took into a you know, 124 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,239 Speaker 1: a place where I would see it on a regular basis, 125 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: like on my computer at work until late so years 126 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: passed between when I made that list and when I 127 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: actually made the list into something more recognizable. I did 128 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: a just a ball passed through the phone, but all 129 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: the ideas that I had jotted down out in the 130 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: world into my actual like short list of ideas um 131 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I thought was a 132 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: list of topic ideas that I had seen somewhere was 133 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: actually locations from Skyrim. Uh So anyway, that's how finally, finally, 134 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: more than two years of after having having seen something 135 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: that sparked my attention in Washington, d C, finally got 136 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: to this episode. I um, I never moved them off 137 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: the phone. Yeah, yeah, I put them on the phone, 138 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: and I just now have a list on my phone 139 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: and I don't usually put context, so it's like a 140 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: second layer of fun discovery when I go, what is 141 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: what is that person? Stay? What is that word about? 142 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: And then I'll look it up online and go, oh, 143 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: that was fascinating. Good job me putting it on a list, 144 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: So I think I will do an episode now. Yeah. 145 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: It was pretty much scanning back through my short list, 146 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: including the uh the late last year trans for it 147 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: over um from the phone topic ideas, and I was like, oh, yeah, 148 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: this does sound really interesting. Let's do this right now. UM. 149 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: One thing that we did not get into in the 150 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: in the episode, we alluded to it a little bit, 151 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: we didn't really go into it in a lot of 152 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: detail was that Cobb was really focused on, uh, the 153 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: needs of black doctors and black patients and black people 154 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: as a whole. That was something he was obviously focused on, 155 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: and it really makes sense that he would be focused on. 156 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: And if there was anything that I could see as 157 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: like a shortcoming in his work, it was that he 158 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: did not seem entirely conscious of the fact that indigenous 159 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: people were also still living in large numbers UM. Like. 160 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: I would occasionally find he would be describing sort of 161 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: the state of medical care, and some of his descriptions 162 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 1: of of like the needs of indigenou patients UM would 163 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: sound kind of dismissive, but it sounds sort of like, well, 164 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: but they're not there aren't many anymore. That's like not 165 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: really so much of a concern. But it definitely was 166 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: and is still a concern. And I think that was 167 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: just a you know, sort of a trickle down effect 168 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: of his own focus in his own life experience and 169 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: his own immersion in the world that he was immersed in. 170 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: I generally love the idea that during cadaver labs, maybe 171 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: the anatomy professor would be playing the violin to try 172 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: to keep everyone relaxed. Um. I have never done a 173 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: cadaver lab, but I have watched, uh like recorded video 174 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: could of cadaver labs when I was taking a an 175 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: anatomy course of that level, and UM, it wasn't that 176 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: it was a stressful experience, but I can just see 177 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: it being nice to have some musical accompaniment to kind 178 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: of occupy part of your mind during all that. I 179 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: feel like that is something that should be adopted for 180 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: like any kind of lab where you're not necessarily interacting 181 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: with language while you're doing it right, Um, like a 182 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: geology lab. Also perfectly great when you do analysis of 183 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: of for example, pictures of the night sky and an 184 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: astronomy lab. I would love to have someone playing violin 185 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: for any of that in my classes. That sounds amazing. 186 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, Um, he seems to have had a very 187 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: larger than life personality in a lot of ways, uh, 188 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: including playing the violin for his dissection labs. Uh so 189 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: it's Friday. Whatever is coming up for your weekend. I 190 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: hope it goes as well as possible. Uh if you'd 191 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: like to drop us a note about anything where History 192 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: podcast at i heart radio dot com and you can 193 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: subscribe to the show on the iHeart radio app and 194 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and anywhere else that you get your podcasts. 195 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: M Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production 196 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 197 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 198 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. H