WEBVTT - Fried Egg Stories: Making the Ocean Course 0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:03.800 This episode of Frida Egg Stories. In fact, this season 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:06.080 of Frida Egg Stories is brought to you by Precision 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.920 Pro Golf rangefinders. In addition to fantastic rangefinders like the 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.280 Annex nine slope, Precision Pro is an industry leader in 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.239 customer service. If you have an issue or a question, 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.200 give him a call and you'll talk to an actual person, 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.119 a person named Eric. Eric is a golfer and a 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:25.400 really good guy and he's there to help you. So 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.680 if you're looking for a rangefinder to help with your 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.040 golf game, check out Precision Pro. 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Swing with confidence, hit more greens 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:50.440 with Precision Pro Golf. 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.760 The fried egg requires a different technique. 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:58.560 What you need to do is actually square the face 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.800 so they'll dig down on underneath that bad lie and 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:02.880 propel that. 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:03.920 Ball right out onto the green. 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.000 Here's the thing playing out of a buried lion of 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:09.559 bunker is completely different than playing out of a nice 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.960 and clean lion a greenside bunker. You need to be 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:15.840 aggressive on any show, weather it's sitting cleanly, or it's 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:16.959 a Friday. 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.840 Eg well, we've all faithd it the dreaded Friday not 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:23.039 to be cleared though it's actually a pretty easy shot 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:23.559 to hit. 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:29.760 All right, testing testing. 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:29.880 Can hear me? 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:32.520 My name is Jim Gandy. 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.120 I'm oftentimes referred to as South Carolina's weather man, and 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:43.399 of my forecast, probably the one that everybody remembers is 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:45.480 my forecast of Hurricane Hugo. 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:51.240 So tell me about tracking Hurricane Hugo in its early stages. 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:53.720 This was in nineteen eighty nine, right, I. 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.480 Mean that's right. At the time, I was the chief 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:01.160 meteorologist at WIS Television in Columbia, South Carolina, and it 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:07.360 was not a big concern until the weekend before before 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:12.040 it hit, I saw a note from the Washington office 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.680 of the National Weather Service which indicated that the weather 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.280 pattern was such that this is a storm that might 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.040 affect the southeast. So obviously that that piqued my interest. 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.320 And when it hit Puerto Rico, it was a powerful storm. 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.880 It had maximum sustained winds I think it was close 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:30.320 to one. 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:31.920 Hundred and sixty miles an hour. 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.440 My biggest concern was the fact that the National Hurricane 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.400 Center was forecasting a turn head towards South Florida. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:41.840 But everything I was looking at was telling me that 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.280 it was headed more toward the Carolinas. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:46.760 So what do you do? 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:51.840 And I decided right now, it's not doing what the 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.799 National Hurricane Center says it's going to do. 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:56.480 So here I am. 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:58.920 Going on TV saying, well, I don't think it's going 0:02:58.960 --> 0:02:59.760 to hit South Florida. 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.280 I think it's gonna hit South Carolina. It's a big difference. 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:05.800 Granted, there were some things that happened with the storm 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:07.519 that I wasn't expecting. 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.280 I didn't expect it to pick up speed like it did, 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:15.920 but I did expect it to intensify, and that was 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.600 a pretty cutsy call. It turned out to be pretty accurate. 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.320 So give me a sense for the threat of a 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:30.880 hurricane hitting the coast of South Carolina with winds of 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:32.280 one hundred and thirty miles per. 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.520 Hour, particularly in the low country of South Carolina, There's 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.320 going to be a tremendous amount of flooding. You have 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.320 to get out of there long before the storm arise, 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:45.160 because many of the escape routes get cut off by 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:50.040 rising water. The coast itself, when you're going from from 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.720 the beach out into the ocean, the slope there is 0:03:54.640 --> 0:04:00.000 very shallow, so as the water piles up, it rises quickly. 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.320 The center of the storm, of course, it hit down, 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.840 you know, near Charleston. Probably the best story that we 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:12.800 covered was at the high school near mcclellanville. That was 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.120 north of where the storm came in, but it was 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.279 also very close to where the highest storm the storm 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:22.719 surge was over twenty feet in Hurricane Hugo, and the 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:29.800 high school was right there, ground zero practically. And it's 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.440 the storm came in, the water was rising, and it 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:39.800 was rising quickly. It's nighttime, it's dark, and people have 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:45.400 huddled inside the cafeteria trying to take shelter from the storm, 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:49.160 everybody in that area. And the water now is getting 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:53.240 up to the windows, and the principal of the school 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:57.840 decides to try to find a better location for everybody. 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.440 So he gets his way up to the roo roof, 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.040 goes out on the roof, but then the door behind 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.880 him latches shut and he can't get back in, and 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.320 he had to ride the hurricane out, holding onto an 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:15.480 exhaust pipe for the duration, and he had to hang 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.239 on for dear life because the winds were so strong, 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:20.600 and of course he was just getting tilted by rain 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.479 even some of the roofing material that was out there. 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.600 People were really getting concerned because they were having to 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.880 put people up on tables because the water that was rising. 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.960 The water, if you could see out the windows, was 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:36.880 higher on the outside of the building than it was 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:38.520 on the inside of the building. 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:44.760 What happened to that poor man who was stuck outside 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:45.040 In the. 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:49.520 End, Surprisingly he survived it, and so did the people 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:53.400 inside the building that were scared to death. But everybody survived. 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:58.239 At the time, it was one of the costliest storms. 0:05:58.279 --> 0:05:59.960 I think it was one of the top ten calls 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:04.800 his storms in US history. I think in South Carolina 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:11.000 the damage was estimated at six billion dollars and it 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.640 affected the coast from Hilton Head to Myrtle Beach. 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.360 And right in the center of that path of destruction 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.760 was Kiyo Island, where just a couple of months before 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:25.479 Pete Dye had begun to build a golf course. The 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.800 site was destroyed obviously, the landscape was mangled beyond recognition, 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.640 and in almost exactly two years, this course was supposed 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:35.760 to host the nineteen ninety one Ryder Cup. 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.360 I'm Garrett Morrison and I'm Andy Johnson. 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:48.800 And this is Frida Egg's Stories on today's episode, the 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:52.680 story of one of the biggest craziest challenges in the 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:56.039 history of golf architecture, the making of the Ocean course 0:06:56.480 --> 0:07:11.640 at Kiowa Island. So here we are Friday Stories, Season two. 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.480 And there are a couple of new things about dispatch 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:19.400 of episodes. For one, there's a theme, and that theme 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:23.360 is the modern championship game. We're planning to tell stories 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.760 that look at championship golf from a number of different angles, 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.800 The tournaments, the personalities, should be fun. And the second 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.000 new thing is that Andy's here with me. How you doing, Andy, 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:35.200 I'm doing great. 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.440 I'm excited to try this out. Garrett's kept me kind 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.200 of blind to this whole process, so I don't know 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:45.000 really what's going on, but I'm excited to be here. 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.720 Yeah. I mean, you're basically in the same position as 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.840 any other listener. I didn't tell you anything beforehand about 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:52.720 what's going to be in this episode, and I'm just 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:57.040 curious to get your reactions as we go along. So 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:59.960 we have the twenty twenty one PGA Championship coming up 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.760 that's at the Ocean Course at Kiowa Island, widely considered 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.840 one of Pete Dye's best designs, if not his best. 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:08.760 Would you say this is Pete Dide's best course. 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.840 I think it's one of his best sights. Yeah, I 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:13.640 think it. Ex said in his book that he would have, 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.440 you know, possibly given up his wife to design this 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.080 golf course. So I think it's a it's a great 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.600 golf course, and he did what he was asked. He 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.640 built a really hard championship golf course for sure. 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.960 Also hosted the twenty twelve PGA Championship. But I think 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:33.320 the Ocean Course will always be most associated with one tournament, 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:36.520 and that's the nineteen ninety one Ryder Cup, the War 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.720 by the Shore. So Andy for you, what comes to 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.640 mind when you think about this Ryder Cup. I mean 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:44.200 you're probably just four or five years old when it 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.080 was played, so you didn't like watch it when it 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:47.600 was happening. 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:51.200 It's the Golf Channel documentary that they did on it. Yeah, 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.680 And I just I think, like the tension between the 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:59.080 two teams, and also obviously the disaster, the meltdowns that happened. 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:03.360 It was it was the sight of numerous meltdowns on Sunday, 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.560 And I think that's probably what I'll remember most is 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:13.000 this golf course that invoked chaos throughout the event. Yeah, Calcovecia, 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.000 Mark Calkovecchia, who is two up with you to go 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:20.920 his opponents in the water, Are you kidding me? That 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.640 might have been a stranger chef I plow I've ever seen. 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.360 And then there's just like the visual of the ocean 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:30.400 course itself. It was a brand new course. It had 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.480 been built for this moment, and the look of it, 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.760 the ruggedness of it, the sea and the sand, obviously, 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.120 as you said, the way it played, how difficult it played. 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:42.760 All of this is a big reason why this rider 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:44.920 cut became so iconic. Like if you had held it 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.560 at another course, it wouldn't have been the same, right. 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.760 So it was really striking for me to find out 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.079 that as the ocean course was being built by Pete 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.920 Diana's crew, a lot of people thought that it wasn't 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.280 going to get finished on time, and some were expecting 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.839 that the ninety one Ryder Cup was going to be 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:08.800 an absolute fiasco. All right. Backing up a little bit, 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:12.079 the first big question I have is why this was 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.400 all happening at the last minute, Like why had the 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:16.600 Ryder Cup been given to a course that hadn't been 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.080 built yet? So I called up one of the main 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:23.840 decision makers. Hello, Hello, mister Autrey, this is Garrett Morrison 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.040 calling from the Frida Egg. How are you doing good? 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:27.160 Who is Jim? 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:30.440 Ots named Jim And in the late nineteen eighties I 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:34.640 became the executive Director Tournament Operations for the PGA of 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:36.760 America and later became CEO. 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:41.040 And Jim explains that it all started with this contract 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.520 that the PGA of America had with Landmark land Company. 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.400 Landmark was a big golf development firm, definitely one of 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.000 the most powerful and influential of its era. It had 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:56.920 done oak Tree, National, Mission Hills, Lakinta, many other courses. 0:10:57.600 --> 0:10:59.840 And Landmark had this deal with the PGA of a 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.640 Man America to hold the Ryder Cup at one of 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.160 its properties, PGA West. 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:09.320 And the Desert at the Stadium Course, and that was 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:11.320 set for nineteen ninety one. 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.280 Now, when the PGA started reconsidering that venue choice. It 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.439 was around nineteen eighty seven, which happened to be the 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:21.240 first year that the Pete Dye designed stadium course had 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:25.559 hosted the Bob Hope Classic now known as the American Express. 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.080 And Andy, you've looked into this story before. What did 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.640 the pros think when they played Pete Dye's PGA West 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:32.360 for the first time. 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:36.640 It didn't go well, They complained, they thought it was unfair. 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:41.400 There was utter outrage among so many members. Is similar 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.320 in a way to what happened after the first playing 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.640 of the players at TPC Sawgrass, except you know, they 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.120 went a little bit further than just saying the course 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.440 needed to be tweaked here and there and the greens 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.040 needed to be softened. At Sawgrass, That's what they said. 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.000 At PGA West, they just they went straight for the juggular. 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.760 They said, no more, we didn't have We never want 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:01.800 to see this place again. 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.800 Right. What you're referring to is they submitted a petition 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:08.400 to the Commissioner of the PGA Tour, Dean Beeman, demanding 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:12.520 that PGA West not be used again. They hated it. 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.439 So my assumption has always been that the ninety one 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.520 Ryder Cup was moved away from PGA West for that reason, 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.120 you know, to placate the pros. But I asked Jim 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.600 Autry if that was the case. We know that not 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:27.880 all of the pros were in love with the course. 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.000 No, I don't recall that being having anything to do 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:32.640 with the move. 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:37.040 Basically, he says that PGA West was problematic mainly from 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.440 a fan and business perspective. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.360 First thing I noticed was the Ryder Cup being played 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:48.280 in the desert in September. And upon reflection, thinking it's 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:51.360 one hundred and ten degrees in the desert, there's no 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.839 one there in September, and they have an overseer of 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.480 the golf courses, I didn't see how that was going 0:12:58.520 --> 0:12:59.840 to be very successful. 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:04.160 In other words, it's going to be deathly hot, everyone's 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.600 going to be out of town, and the golf course 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.480 is probably going to be brown. And on top of that, 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:13.080 there was pressure. There's a lot of pressure to make 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.480 this particular Ryder Cup work. You have to keep in 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.680 mind that in the eighties the Ryder Cup wasn't nearly 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.240 as big of a deal as it is now. It 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.679 didn't make that much money. It just wasn't a massively 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.240 valuable media property like it is today, but it had 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:33.080 at least become competitive. Nineteen eighty five, Team Europe won 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:36.520 for the first time since Team Europe was created. Eighty seven, 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:40.560 they won again, so there was some juice behind the competition, 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.800 and the hope was that nineteen ninety one would take 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:47.040 it to the next level. Because nineteen ninety one would 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.880 be the first year that NBC would televise the Ryder Cup. 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.079 This was the first time there would be truly extensive 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.120 live coverage of the event on a major network in 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.480 the US. It's sort of surprising to think about this now. 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.880 The Ryder Cup wasn't very well covered before this. You know, 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.520 It's kind of on at weird times. It was tape delayed, 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.640 it was on USA, you know, it wasn't on the 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:13.160 major networks live. So Jim Autry and the PGA of 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:17.320 America were looking at this and thinking, ninety one could 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.200 be our year. It'll be a competitive match, it'll be 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.840 on everyone's TV. But for some reason, we're giving them 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:28.120 the Coachella Valley in late September. It just like was 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.080 an ideal. So they decided to try to move the 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.960 Ryder Cup away from PGA West. The problem was this 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.120 this contract the PGA of America had with Landmark Land 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.760 Company to hold it there. Unfortunately for Jim Autry, he 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.600 actually had really close connections with Landmark. 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:47.400 I had grown up in My first job out of 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.280 college was with Joe Walser, who was one of the 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.080 principal developers of Landmark, and I had lived with him 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.280 run out of college, and he was just like a 0:14:56.320 --> 0:15:00.680 second father. So I remember go going to Joe and 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.480 I said, Joe, I don't think the desert is the 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:07.280 place to be playing the Ryder Cup. In September, he said, well, Jim, 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.520 what do you want to do. And I said, well, Joe, 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:11.480 I think i'd like to see if you'd let us 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.240 out of the agreement. And Joe looked at me. It's 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.480 typical and said, Barger, I don't think we can do that. 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.400 After we talked a little bit reflection, he said I 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.920 got an idea. He said, we're getting ready to build 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.600 a golf course and build a development on the east 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.960 coast in Iowa Island, and he said, I think that'd 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.320 be a great place for the Ryder Cups. 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:40.480 This was the Kiowa Island Resort already had three golf courses, 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.720 and when Landmark Land Company bought those courses in nineteen 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.960 eighty eight, it also received land for a fourth course 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.040 on the southeastern tip of the island. This was what 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.360 would become the Ocean Course now. Joe Wallser passed away 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.840 in twenty twelve, but I was able to get a 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:00.760 sense of Landmark's perspective from Chris Cole, and. 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:06.440 I was the project director of all the recreational assets 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.360 on ko Island plus the land where the ocean course 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:11.440 is going to be built. 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:15.880 What Chris says is basically the main thing Landmark liked 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.480 about moving away from PGA West to Kiowa was the 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:20.480 time zone difference. 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:27.160 I think it was the understand the commercial ability of 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.760 if you have it on the West coast versus having 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:35.160 it on the East coast in Europe. Do you understand 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.600 those three hour changes? The people can come home in 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:41.560 Europe and watch the ridici now. 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.440 In other words, if it's at PGA West in the 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.440 Pacific time zone, most of Europe is asleep during the matches, 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.840 especially the afternoon matches, whereas if it's at Kiowa in 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.760 the Eastern time zone, a lot of it's in primetime. 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.720 More European eyes on the Ryder Cup, more international publicity 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:03.200 for a Landmark property, more value for the company. But 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.479 now Landmark had to convince the PGA that the Ocean 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.120 course was going to actually get built. 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:09.480 And be good. 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:14.320 The PGA, not just Jim Audrey, but certainly Jim Audrey, 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.919 all the officers are. They went, wow, what if we 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.879 did it? But the can we trust? And they said, 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.399 we're going to have Pete out a building first, come 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:26.479 look at the cut. 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.480 So I met Pete. He put me in his truck 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.480 and we drove out there on the foon line and 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:35.560 Pete had me out walking through the weeds and the 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.600 bushes that like Pete, only Pete would do. And he 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.560 would have me stand up on a mound and he 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.240 would say, see, Jim, this is a dog leg right 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.119 far for and it turns right off that mound. And 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.359 I'm looking out there and I see nothing but crust. 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.040 So I said, Pete, I can't see it. He said, 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:52.960 move over here a little bit, Jim. He said, right there, 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.680 can't you see if dog legs right off that mound? 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:58.560 I said, Pete, I'm sorry, I cannot see it. 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:04.200 Come at two miles Ocean's on property. You'd think he's 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:05.840 not gonna build a great gulp course. 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.600 That was how we started. And when I saw the 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:12.600 dude saw the ocean, he described the course because he 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.399 could see all this and it is. He said, this 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:17.280 is going to be a great buck And. 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.879 They said, yeah, but you got two years. We said, 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:24.360 we have no problems. You'd got to trust Pete and us. 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:25.760 We're gonna get her done. 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.280 So we agreed to move the Ryder Cup to Iawa 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:33.800 Island on a course that hadn't been built, and we 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:35.359 announced that we we're going to vote. 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.960 So that announcement was made in May nineteen eighty nine 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.520 and the tournament was scheduled for September nineteen ninety one. 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.439 I think this is one of those situations where you 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.720 make a series of what seemed like logical decisions and 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:57.879 somehow at the end of it you find yourself in 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.040 this crazy predicament. 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:00.600 I mean, what a risk. 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:01.720 I know. 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.520 And of all the architects too to do it with, 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.679 I would be just the worst one in the world 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:09.280 to work with. 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:09.960 You know what. 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:14.439 He drew plans for townships. He would give them plans 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.119 from other golf courses. You know, he would just you know, 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.760 if somebody, it would make him angry and he would 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.080 not want to work with somebody anymore. And now all 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.280 of a sudden, you've got not only Landmark on his schedule, 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.800 but you got the PGA of America and NBC all worried. 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:31.439 Yeah, yeah, I mean Pete Dye made a habit of 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:36.160 driving corporations crazy, and now here he's working with several 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:41.119 massive corporations and they have a really difficult project that 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.879 they're about to do, you know, because it wasn't just 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:47.400 about getting the golf course built. It was about creating 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:50.320 a course that could immediately host the Ryder Cup, and 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:52.600 not just any Ryder Cup, but the first one to 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.440 be broadcast live on NBC, the Ryder Cup that was 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.800 supposed to re establish the reputation of the entire event. 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:01.520 And so the worse, as Chris Cole put it. 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:03.960 To me, actually born in miss America. 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.560 No awkward adolescence. It has to be born miss America. 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.200 And I think this is the thing, like all resources 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:12.600 obviously want to get you to see their courses right 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.880 off the bat, you know, opening day, but in reality, 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.399 if you're if you're a wise consumer, you want to 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:21.760 wait two three years. Let that course mature over time, 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:26.120 and none of these courses are very few, very rarely 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:30.720 do they open in mint condition. And that hosting a 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:35.280 major golf event is you need a whole different level. 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.880 I mean, you talk to superintendent's superintendent's focus for two 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:40.960 years on their golf course to get it ready for 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:44.320 the championship, when it's already like a mature golf course. 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.800 This one, you had two years to get a golf 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.840 course that didn't exist ready for a big tournament agonomically right. 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:52.960 And if you're thinking, and if Ladmark is using this 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:57.879 as an advertisement for the newly relaunched Kiowa Resort, what 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.359 if the golf course looks terrible, you know, it's a 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.960 big risk. They just have to sort of roll with 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:06.800 what they had at the end of the process. So 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:10.320 that was the challenge, and right away Pete Dye started 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:13.679 doing what I think maybe Pete Dy did best, and 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.040 that was assembling a team. 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:20.280 Yeah, my name is Scott cool I worked for Pete 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.840 for ten years and during the Kioa project, I was 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.000 brought in with a lot of the different people to 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:30.080 help build the golf course. I was there primarily as 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:30.920 a shaper. 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:35.359 Jason McCoy and I was project manager for the ocean 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:36.840 course at Kiola for Pete. 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:41.119 So what was the first you heard about the Kiwa project. 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.560 Do you remember the first time you heard that it 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:44.560 was like a possibility. 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:47.119 I was I was doing the cooler courses. 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.760 I was working in Richmond Hill, Georgia, down the Ford 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:53.719 Plantation where Pete was doing the redesign of it. 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:56.760 When we got done and cooler, we'd be headed down there. 0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:58.919 He wanted me to go down take a look at it. 0:21:59.080 --> 0:21:59.800 Jason, let's go. 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:01.480