WEBVTT - Implications of Trump Presidency on Antitrust Suits (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>We have been talking on Bloomberg Law about President elect

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<v Speaker 1>Trump's effect on the Supreme Court going forward, but his effect,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, is going to be felt throughout the federal government,

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<v Speaker 1>and one place he has expressed concerns, although he has

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<v Speaker 1>not really set forth what his policy preferences are is

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<v Speaker 1>in the area of anti trust enforcement. He hasn't explicitly

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<v Speaker 1>said what he's going to do or been his detailed

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<v Speaker 1>about it as his opponent Hillary Clinton had been. But

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<v Speaker 1>he has criticized the proposed A T and T and

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<v Speaker 1>Time Warner merger and other has made some remarks that

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<v Speaker 1>have had some implications for anti trust. He's been suited

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<v Speaker 1>in the past about anti trust, but no one really

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<v Speaker 1>knows exactly what he's going to do with us here

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<v Speaker 1>today to talk about what President elect Trump might do

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<v Speaker 1>in the anti trust area is Bloomberg Intelligence analyst Jennifer Ree. Jennifer,

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the program. Hi, how are you? Thank you

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<v Speaker 1>for having me. So what do we know so far

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<v Speaker 1>about what President elect Trump might do in the anti

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<v Speaker 1>trust area? Well, you know, I think that you just

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<v Speaker 1>described of it, and the best term that I've heard

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<v Speaker 1>is that he's really a wild card. Um typically a

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<v Speaker 1>Republican administration is friendly to businesses and would be a

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<v Speaker 1>good thing for antitrust in easing the review on mergers

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<v Speaker 1>and and easing you know, opening of investigations and that

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<v Speaker 1>sort of thing. But here, as you mentioned, the few

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<v Speaker 1>statements that UM Donald Trump has made about anti trust

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<v Speaker 1>has been to criticize consolidation and UM particularly consolidation amongst

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<v Speaker 1>large media companies and and too much control in the

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<v Speaker 1>hands of one entity, which is what he said about

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<v Speaker 1>Amazon and Jeff Bezos. So you know, you have both

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<v Speaker 1>sides of the coin, a business owner and a Republican UM,

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<v Speaker 1>but who is not traditional, not a traditional Republican who

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<v Speaker 1>has to the extent he's expressed anything, it has been

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<v Speaker 1>some indication to actually be a vigorous enforcer. Jennifer Scregg store, um,

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<v Speaker 1>tell us a little bit about Donald Trump's experience with

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<v Speaker 1>antitrust law as a business man, and might that give

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<v Speaker 1>us some ideas about what he would do as president.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, first, a lot of those experiences were quite

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<v Speaker 1>a long time ago, in the nineteen eighties, and he

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<v Speaker 1>has been both a plaintiff and a defendant in the

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<v Speaker 1>anti trust matters. So it's clear that he knows the

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<v Speaker 1>anti drust laws and how they work and what kind

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<v Speaker 1>of an effect they can have. And he's also already

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<v Speaker 1>used them as a tool, given that he's been a

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<v Speaker 1>plaintiff and he's had some success, um minimal success. He

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<v Speaker 1>as an owner of the USFL in the nineteen eighties,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, he sued the NFL for monopolization and ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>the jury agreed with him and decided that the NFL

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<v Speaker 1>was a monopolist in violation of the anti trust laws,

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<v Speaker 1>but had decided that the difficulty that the USFL was

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<v Speaker 1>having was due to mismanagement and not the NFL's monopolistic conduct,

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<v Speaker 1>so they only awarded a dollar in that case. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>He also had been sued I think in the past

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<v Speaker 1>related to some of his dealings in Atlantic City, UM,

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<v Speaker 1>in which he was accused of conspiring to try to

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<v Speaker 1>push out competitors. I think he had some success. That

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<v Speaker 1>was where he was a defendant, and he had some

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<v Speaker 1>success with that suit as well. What do we know,

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<v Speaker 1>Jennifer about what kind of impact president like Trump will

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<v Speaker 1>have once he's in office on the Federal Trade Commission. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I I think that's where his biggest impact will be

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<v Speaker 1>for right now, I mean of course he'll be able

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<v Speaker 1>to appoint um appoint officials to the Department of Justice

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<v Speaker 1>as well. But right now the Federal Trade Commission, which

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<v Speaker 1>normally has five commissioners, is operating with three, So right

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<v Speaker 1>off the bat he has two slots to fill UM

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<v Speaker 1>and I think the current chairman, Edith Ramirez, will likely

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<v Speaker 1>leave because her term actually already expired in September, and

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<v Speaker 1>she is a Democrat. And the way that commission is

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<v Speaker 1>set up, of the five commissioners, no more than three

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<v Speaker 1>can be of one political party, so you will always

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<v Speaker 1>either have three Republicans and two two Democrats and vice versa.

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<v Speaker 1>And during a democratic administration, you would normally have three Democrats.

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<v Speaker 1>So in this case, with these openings and his ability

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<v Speaker 1>to appoint, we're likely going to flip from what we

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<v Speaker 1>up now with a majority two Democrats one Republican, to

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<v Speaker 1>three Republicans and two Democrats, giving Republicans the majority. And

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<v Speaker 1>the reason that can have importance is because when the

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<v Speaker 1>FTC makes a decision to take an action, it requires

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<v Speaker 1>a vote, and it must be a majority vote. So um,

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<v Speaker 1>where you have the three Republicans, if the commissioners vote

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<v Speaker 1>along party lines, then there may be less of a likelihood,

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<v Speaker 1>to let's sake, go to court to seek to block

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<v Speaker 1>a deal, Jennifer. For me, at least when Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 1>was was criticizing consolidation, particularly in the media industry, it

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<v Speaker 1>was sometimes hard to distinguish whether he was talking about

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<v Speaker 1>his claim that the election was being rigged or whether

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<v Speaker 1>there was something more more antitrust focused about his comments. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>do you think it's fair to at least speculate that

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<v Speaker 1>he might want to treat consolidation in the media industry

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<v Speaker 1>differently than he might in the drug industry or or

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<v Speaker 1>some other business. I think that's absolutely fair. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>everything that he's talked about in terms of anti trust

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<v Speaker 1>has been targeted at media companies, and I know he

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<v Speaker 1>had he had a lot of anger um with the

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<v Speaker 1>media during the election, and it wouldn't surprise me if

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<v Speaker 1>I guess in a way it would be to use

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<v Speaker 1>the anti trust as a tool to get back at

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what he considers his enemies. Jennifer. We you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to have to do a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>crystal ball here, but there's been One of his most

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<v Speaker 1>prominent supporters was Rudy Giuliani, who served in the Justice

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<v Speaker 1>Department in the Reagan administration, which was some time ago,

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<v Speaker 1>and Rudy's political views seemed to have changed a bit

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<v Speaker 1>over time. But is there some possibility to say if

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<v Speaker 1>Rudy gets appointed as Attorney General that we might see

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<v Speaker 1>a more Reagan Esque approach to anti trust? You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I would think that would be the case. And even

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<v Speaker 1>if it wasn't Rudy Giuliani, it was sort of a

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<v Speaker 1>more to what you think of as a more traditional

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<v Speaker 1>or Reagan type Republican who was Um appointed to some

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<v Speaker 1>of these positions, both FTC and d o J. Because,

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<v Speaker 1>as I said, the more traditional Republican position has been

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<v Speaker 1>to be uh more hands off, have a lighter hand

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<v Speaker 1>on the anti trust and more friendly to business. And

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<v Speaker 1>if he's going to appoint people like that who are

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<v Speaker 1>going to you know, follow through with that position, then

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<v Speaker 1>you would think overall things might get a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>easier on the anti trust enforcement than they have been

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<v Speaker 1>in the last two years. There's a real tension here,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't there you know, kind of the who is the

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<v Speaker 1>real Donald Trump or what Donald Trumper are we going

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<v Speaker 1>to see? On one hand, there is Rudy Giuliani. On

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<v Speaker 1>the other hand, Um you know, Trump's message with so

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<v Speaker 1>much of a populist message that one might perceive that

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<v Speaker 1>he has somebody who wants to go after big companies,

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<v Speaker 1>break them up, or at least prevent them from from merging.

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<v Speaker 1>I I agree. I think it's really um you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think those comments were really tough because they seem

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<v Speaker 1>more like the comments of a Democrat. Mean, I think

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<v Speaker 1>I even wrote this up that what he was saying

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<v Speaker 1>was aligned with exactly what Senator Elizabeth Warren was saying

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<v Speaker 1>at the same time that she had a real issue

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<v Speaker 1>with the amount of control and power that some of

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<v Speaker 1>these some of the tech companies had, like Amazon and

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<v Speaker 1>Google and companies like that. And so it's very odd

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<v Speaker 1>here where he when he takes on that populous message,

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<v Speaker 1>he's aligning himself with with the more typical democratic position, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>but in a situation where he's more likely to appoint

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<v Speaker 1>decision makers in the area who have a more traditional

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<v Speaker 1>Republican position. So so it's a very strange situation. So

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<v Speaker 1>we could end up though, in a situation anti trust

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<v Speaker 1>as a place where we could end up not only

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<v Speaker 1>with some battles, say between the appointees and the president.

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<v Speaker 1>If as your seemed to be implying. But also this

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<v Speaker 1>is a place where the president can really um affect

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of policy changes in the economic sphere, isn't it,

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<v Speaker 1>you know? I I think so. It depends on who

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<v Speaker 1>he appoints, you know, under the anti trust laws and

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<v Speaker 1>the way these things work, especially with merger review, the

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<v Speaker 1>president really can't do anything to stop a deal that

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<v Speaker 1>the d O j r FTC has decided is not

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<v Speaker 1>anti competitive or shouldn't be blocked, you know, if they

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<v Speaker 1>go forward with the deal, even with his objection, that's

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<v Speaker 1>how it goes. The President doesn't have the authority to

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<v Speaker 1>try to stop the deal or otherwise block the deal.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you need a court order to do that, and

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<v Speaker 1>the president can't take it into court either. So in

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<v Speaker 1>my mind, it really has to do more with the

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<v Speaker 1>people he puts in place to make these these these

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<v Speaker 1>decisions then actually his own position, and if there's tension

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<v Speaker 1>that could cause problems. Jennifer, let me just before we

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<v Speaker 1>close in very quickly ask you do you think the

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<v Speaker 1>A T and T Time Warner deals in trouble now?

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<v Speaker 1>I think I don't think that it is. Uh, the

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<v Speaker 1>deal is a vertical deal. It doesn't combine to competitors.

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<v Speaker 1>And when you talk about consolidation or too much concentration,

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<v Speaker 1>at least in antitrust parlance which you're thinking about, our

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<v Speaker 1>is too much one one buyer or seller of a

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<v Speaker 1>competing product. And that's not what you have here. So

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<v Speaker 1>you have a vertical integration, which is usually thought of

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<v Speaker 1>as more efficient. Thank you, Jennifer Free Bloomberg Intelligence Analysis,

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<v Speaker 1>talking about possible antitrust action in the Trump administration.