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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants Huttle on Giants

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Speaker 1: dot com, The Giants part of the Giants podcast Network.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Giants Huttle podcast. John

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Speaker 1: Smoke with you. Today's guest Fox Sports analysts and former

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Speaker 1: NFL linebacker you know him from his time with the

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Speaker 1: Jets in the Saints, Jonathan Vilma. But first, I don't

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Speaker 1: remind you. You can find the Giants Hutle podcast and

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Speaker 1: all of our podcasts offerings on our podcast network, which

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Speaker 1: is presented by Investors Bank. You can find another Giants

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Speaker 1: mobile app on all your favorite podcast platforms, and the

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Speaker 1: Giants dot Com slash podcast. And now we welcome in

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Speaker 1: our guest. He's Fox NFL analyst and former linebacker. You

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Speaker 1: know him from his time with the Jets and the Saints.

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Speaker 1: He is Jonathan Vilma, who has the call for Giants

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Speaker 1: and Cardinal's at one o'clock on Sunday on Fox Sports. John,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for being with us, man. How are

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Speaker 1: you I'm doing great, doing great? John? All right, a

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Speaker 1: lot of change since you last called the Giants game. John,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you've kind of looked at what they've done

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Speaker 1: since you last called one of their games. Where have

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Speaker 1: the Giants changed the most where they've been able to

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Speaker 1: put together this four game winning streak, it's been the

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Speaker 1: takeaways and the giveaways that's been the most important. They

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Speaker 1: have done a much better job. Even when they beat

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Speaker 1: Washington the second time when I called that game, they

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Speaker 1: protected the football and then they were taking the football away.

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Speaker 1: So they've continued on that success on that street. They

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Speaker 1: kind of like how that formula works out, and it's

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Speaker 1: been voting very well for them now getting takeaways. John,

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Speaker 1: you know, this can be kind of flukey sometimes, like

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Speaker 1: last week, Russell Wilson fumbles a snap that you know

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Speaker 1: that stuff happened. So as a defense, is there a trick?

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Speaker 1: Is there something you can do to be good at

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Speaker 1: taking the ball away from the opposition? You know, the

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Speaker 1: only thing you can do is be intentional about trying

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Speaker 1: to take the football away. Um, So it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that every time you swipe at the ball, try a

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Speaker 1: strip sack, or try to punch a ball when you're

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Speaker 1: tackling that you're gonna force the fumble. But you're doing

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Speaker 1: enough time then you know, one of those times it's

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Speaker 1: gonna come out. The ball is gonna come out, the

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Speaker 1: strip stack is gonna happen. So when you are consciously

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Speaker 1: trying and actively looking for the football to try to

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Speaker 1: take it away, that's when good things will happen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you about some more things about

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Speaker 1: this Giants defense, John, because one thing, a lot of

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Speaker 1: the opposing quarterbacks and coaches have said that this Giants

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Speaker 1: defense in the back end are very good at disguising

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Speaker 1: coverages and trying to confuse the opposing quarterbacks. You saw

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Speaker 1: Russell Wilson have to take an extra beat or two

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Speaker 1: last week against Seattle, and he's seen everything under the sun.

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Speaker 1: He's a great NFL quarterback. So what are you seeing

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Speaker 1: from this Giants defense in terms of their ability to

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Speaker 1: disguise which sometimes makes the quarterback after process a couple

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Speaker 1: extra seconds. Everything is what you just mentioned. Everything is

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Speaker 1: about having the quarterback take an extra beat, pap the

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Speaker 1: ball one time, have to think on the fly, and

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Speaker 1: when you do that and you're affecting the quarterback mentally,

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Speaker 1: that's when you get the edge. And so the defensive

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Speaker 1: line has been now feeding off of that because everyone knows,

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Speaker 1: all right, our secondary is gonna do a good enough

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Speaker 1: job to where instead of getting the ball out in

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Speaker 1: two and a half seconds, they'll get it out in

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Speaker 1: three seconds. Well, in three seconds, we've gotta get there.

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Speaker 1: Or instead of three seconds, it's now three and a half.

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Speaker 1: Well three and a half, we've gotta get there. So

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Speaker 1: that that disguise has worked very, very well for him,

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Speaker 1: And you know, the more that they do it, because

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Speaker 1: they're so used to it, you know, you really get

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Speaker 1: confused or what covers are in right, they know what

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Speaker 1: their cover threes look like versu their cover twos. So

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Speaker 1: when they disguise, they're doing it so well that it

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Speaker 1: really makes the quarterbacks pause for a second, which is

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Speaker 1: what's now allowing the front four to get to the quarterback.

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Speaker 1: What does that say about the coaching staff and the

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Speaker 1: intelligence and hard film work of these players that're able

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Speaker 1: to pull something like that off, even against some of

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Speaker 1: the veteran quarterbacks in the league, like Tom Brady when

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Speaker 1: they played the Bucks and then Russell Wilson when they

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Speaker 1: played Seattle last week. Well, you know, it was a

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Speaker 1: real testament to the coaches and the players to develop

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Speaker 1: that consistency because you could easily say when you're losing games,

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Speaker 1: you know on one on two, on three you're like, well,

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Speaker 1: this isn't working on five, this isn't working. Well, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: it now is working, and they stuck with it. They somehow,

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Speaker 1: when I say they, the coaches somehow got the players

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Speaker 1: to continue to buy in to what they were selling.

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Speaker 1: And now they're you know, reaping the benefits of it.

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Speaker 1: And they play such a heavy zone scheme, John, And

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Speaker 1: you're right. They rotate around sometimes during Cover three, sometimes

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Speaker 1: they go to Cover two. They play that too, deep

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Speaker 1: man under two as well, you know some of the time.

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Speaker 1: But they're just not a big Cover one team, which

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Speaker 1: is you know something a lot of the best defense

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Speaker 1: in the league do a lot of for you. When

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Speaker 1: you've played these defenses, What are some of the principles

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Speaker 1: for teams that play really good zone defense and not

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Speaker 1: that soft zone where you let teams dnking dunk, but

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Speaker 1: a really good zone where you really prevent teams are

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Speaker 1: moving the ball up and down the field on you.

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Speaker 1: The really good zone defense I had, I had been

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Speaker 1: fortunate to be a part of a good job of

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Speaker 1: understanding the route combinations then also understanding the weaknesses and

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Speaker 1: the defense. When you understand the route combinations and the

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Speaker 1: weaknesses that it allows you to anticipate and start to

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Speaker 1: drive on routes, and when you're able to now drive

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Speaker 1: on routes, it it can sort of look like man.

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Speaker 1: So as you mentioned, there two the giants to defense.

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Speaker 1: Cover two defense and they covered two men can look

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Speaker 1: very very similar so long as everyone knows the route

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Speaker 1: concepts and the weakness in the defense. And so when

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Speaker 1: I've been a part of some good ones, it was

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Speaker 1: very hard to differentiate between are we in man free

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Speaker 1: or are we in three deep, or are we incover

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Speaker 1: two or we incover two man. And it's because we

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Speaker 1: would let we could naturally sit back, let the routes develop,

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Speaker 1: and then we all knew, okay, this is in my zone. Boom,

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Speaker 1: lock him up, man to man. This is coming in

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Speaker 1: my zone right here. Boom, lock him up, man to man.

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Speaker 1: And you start to do that. That's what makes the

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Speaker 1: quarterbacks sold the football, make him think, why do you

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Speaker 1: think Leonard Williams is having the type of year that

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Speaker 1: he's having already a career high eight and a half sacks,

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Speaker 1: And I think he had been already playing very very

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Speaker 1: well and he was already disruptive. The only difference now

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Speaker 1: is in this day and age, fans only care about sacks,

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Speaker 1: touchdown brush yards, you know, so he wasn't getting the sacks.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm watching film. You were watching film, You're like, man,

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Speaker 1: this guy Leonard Williams, he's pretty good. He's playing really well,

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Speaker 1: but he didn't have the sacks. So if you told

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Speaker 1: the average fan, hey, Leonard Williams is having a great season,

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Speaker 1: they're like, how many sacks does he have? Right, that's

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Speaker 1: the first question, always how many sacks does he have?

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Speaker 1: And then they're like, oh, yes or whatever. Let's say

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Speaker 1: it was two sacks. Oh, okay, I guess he's playing well.

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Speaker 1: But now because he gets the sacks, was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Levin Williams, man, he's playing lights out. It's like he's

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Speaker 1: been doing that. You know, he's been he's been playing well.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I don't see any difference and what

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Speaker 1: he's been doing, aside from what he has the opportunity

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Speaker 1: for a sack, he capitalizes on it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: now he's getting more notoriety. You know, John, I'm with it.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't check after the Seattle game, but I

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Speaker 1: don't go into Seattle. He was actually on pace for

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Speaker 1: pretty much the same amount of pressures that he has

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Speaker 1: every single year. He just happens to be converting them

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Speaker 1: into sacks. So is part of that the way the

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Speaker 1: coaching staff is utilizing him with it, the within the

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Speaker 1: scheme and and how there may be giving him more

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Speaker 1: of an opportunity to turn some of those pressures into sacks. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: the big thing are the teammates, the guys that he's around,

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Speaker 1: because they're able to generate a lot of pressure and

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Speaker 1: it's complimentary football with the secondary forcing quarterbacks to hold

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Speaker 1: the ball longer. He just really has the opportunity now,

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Speaker 1: so he has it, he makes it. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: he makes a sack and you know he's the hero,

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Speaker 1: but really it's been a group at for you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of times where you can and not

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Speaker 1: to knock his ability, he's he's a great football player,

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Speaker 1: but you know there are a lot of times where, um,

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Speaker 1: let's take Von Miller and his prime you know, they

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Speaker 1: could don't matter what defense they were running, he just

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Speaker 1: beat his man and make a sack. Now, because Leonard

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Speaker 1: Williams is more of a power guy, it takes just

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Speaker 1: a little bit longer that split second from the get there.

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Speaker 1: He's getting that split second from the secondary. So he

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Speaker 1: gets the set absolutely the New York Giants and Quest

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Speaker 1: Diagnostics one of fans to come back stronger than ever.

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Speaker 1: Now you can order your own lab test your Quest

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Speaker 1: direct to get the health answers you need most John,

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Speaker 1: we don't know as for this recording recording this late

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Speaker 1: on Friday afternoon, whether or not Blake Martinez is going

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Speaker 1: to play as the former awesome one of the best

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Speaker 1: middle linebackers the league has seen. What's the impact if

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Speaker 1: Blake Martinez can't go in this game on Sunday, specifically

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Speaker 1: against uh Kyler Murray in the type of offense that

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Speaker 1: the Cardinals are thrown out there from the run game,

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Speaker 1: you're you're talking about one of the leaders in the

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Speaker 1: NFL and tackles. That's a lot of deduction not to

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Speaker 1: have on the field, and it's hard to make up

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Speaker 1: that production with other players. UH. The other part is

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Speaker 1: the communication. The middle linebacker always communicates to the front

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Speaker 1: and to the back, and we see the game from

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Speaker 1: a holistic UH point of view, where it's we see

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Speaker 1: the whole field formation offense, and then we start to

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Speaker 1: narrow down into what our specific assignment is. While we're

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Speaker 1: narrowing down to our specific assignment. We make sure that

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Speaker 1: everyone else has lined up. We make sure that the

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Speaker 1: corners know the coverage, the safeties know the coverage, the

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Speaker 1: d line knows where to line up, and the stunts

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Speaker 1: that they're supposed to run. That is a huge part

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Speaker 1: of the Giants that we just talked about, all the

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Speaker 1: different ways they disguise and the coverage is and it

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Speaker 1: plays in with the front floor. To not have that

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Speaker 1: communicator in the middle, that tree stump that's gonna be

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Speaker 1: able to be the steady eddie. That is a huge

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Speaker 1: the laws for the Giants, especially in a game like this.

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Speaker 1: All Right, so let's talk about the matchup specifically for

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Speaker 1: the Giants defense before we flip it to the other side.

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Speaker 1: Kyler Murray. They played Russell Wilson last week, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: and all mobile quarterbacks not the biggest guys that can

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Speaker 1: both throw it fine, But Kyler Murray is a whole

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Speaker 1: another deal here with his speed and the way he plays.

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Speaker 1: What are the specific challenges John, when you're dealing with

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Speaker 1: somebody like Kyler Murray who has all the quarterback skills

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Speaker 1: you want but also has the athleticism of basically a

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Speaker 1: slot receiver. The problem with Kyler Murray when you're a

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Speaker 1: defender is that you can't account for the second play. Right,

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Speaker 1: So you have the first play, which is whatever to

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Speaker 1: the mike, and Kyler Murray says, what the play call is?

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Speaker 1: It can be a runner pack. Then you have Patrick Graham.

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Speaker 1: He spent all week seeting. They're diagnosing the game, the

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Speaker 1: offensive game plan and call, and it could be the

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Speaker 1: perfect call. And you say, great, had the perfect call

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Speaker 1: against this offensive play. And I studied all week and

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Speaker 1: I know exactly what's gonna happen. So then the play starts.

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Speaker 1: You have Kyler Murray dead the rights. All of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: the second play happens. He makes the guy miss, he

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Speaker 1: scrambles around, he twirls around. He has your front four

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Speaker 1: looking like high school kids that can't tackle anybody. Now

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Speaker 1: there's nothing you can do as a play caller, and

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Speaker 1: as defenders, you're trying to say, what do I go

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Speaker 1: up and try to tackle him? If I go up

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Speaker 1: and try to tackle him's gonna throw DeAndre Hopkins. If

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Speaker 1: I say DeAndre Hopkins, He's gonna run for twenty yards.

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Speaker 1: So that's the second play I'm talking about where you

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Speaker 1: can sit there and have everything that the rights, you

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Speaker 1: knew exactly what's gonna happen. You jump around all that,

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Speaker 1: but you cannot account for Kyler Murray in the second play.

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Speaker 1: And that is something that when I played against Michael Vick,

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Speaker 1: it just keeps you on edge, like literally the whole time.

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Speaker 1: You're you're never at ease. You you're always kind of nervous.

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Speaker 1: It's restless if if you will, because you're like, all right,

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Speaker 1: I got this play covered, all right, the dude, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna get there, Okay, okay, all right, let's see what's

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Speaker 1: gonna happen. And you know who we made it play

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Speaker 1: or oh he's scrambling, Now what do I do? So

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Speaker 1: that's always a tough part for defenders and for Graham

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Speaker 1: to call the game John from a scheme perspective, what

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Speaker 1: are the things click take Kingsbury's trying to do to you?

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Speaker 1: Obviously this is a very college like system. They spread

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Speaker 1: them out for white outs, rpls, all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 1: A lot of really short stuff, then some some some

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Speaker 1: deep shots. So as a guy, if you were game

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Speaker 1: playing this offense, what do you need to do to

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Speaker 1: slow down this system? Putting Kyler Murray aside for a second,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to switch up rushing four. I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: necessarily rush three because that means the defensive lineman is

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Speaker 1: dropping and that does no good. I would then have

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Speaker 1: a spy, take a Jabrill Peppers, who is very quick.

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Speaker 1: I would say, maybe not as quick as Kyler, but

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Speaker 1: definitely as fast as Kyler. I could keep up with them.

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Speaker 1: And so you start to now try to trick roll coverages,

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Speaker 1: the skies coverages where at times it looks like Jabrill

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Speaker 1: is gonna be covering the flat, but instead he's now

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Speaker 1: spying Kyler Murray. So you know, you gotta just play

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Speaker 1: that cat and mouse game throughout. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: take your shots, take your shots and blitzing off the edge,

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Speaker 1: take your shots up the middle. Hope that you know,

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Speaker 1: high risk, high reward, that you hit. If you hit, great,

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Speaker 1: If not, you know, you understand that it could be

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Speaker 1: a long day. But that's the game plan I would take.

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Speaker 1: Maintain the aggressiveness, don't don't sit back and let him

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Speaker 1: pick you apart with his arm, because I'll give him

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Speaker 1: confidence as well with his legs. Get a New York

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Speaker 1: Giants checking account from Investors Bank with the Giants bring

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Speaker 1: the debit card, security features and discounts of the Giants

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Speaker 1: online shop. You can turn up the two and fifty

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Speaker 1: hours when you opened an account at investors Bank dot

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Speaker 1: com slash Giants member f D. I c all right,

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Speaker 1: let's flip it over the offensive side of the ball, John,

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Speaker 1: What do you think about this old school down hill

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Speaker 1: three tight end power running game that the Giants seemed

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Speaker 1: to be going to now where they've really had success

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Speaker 1: moving the ball on the ground the last four weeks. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. It's it's old school football,

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Speaker 1: and frankly, I love it because it works, and so

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Speaker 1: because it works, keep running it right, so that that's

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Speaker 1: that's what I like about. You know, Frankly, a lot

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Speaker 1: of these offenses, even though it's a passing league, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the offenses are making the defenses now, you know,

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Speaker 1: recognize and you know, I have to be honest. First,

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Speaker 1: the run game. Fullbacks are now coming back into offenses.

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Speaker 1: So for the Giants taking that old school approach, which

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Speaker 1: is clearly working, I love it. What do you think

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Speaker 1: of Wayne Goldman is a running back. I think it

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Speaker 1: has improved a lot from the start of the season. Too.

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Speaker 1: Now he has done a much better job of not

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Speaker 1: waiting and hoping for a whole to open up, but

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Speaker 1: setting up his block and then getting downhill. And there's

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Speaker 1: a big difference in you know, you get the ball,

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Speaker 1: you dance around, make some amiss and see if a

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Speaker 1: hole opens up, and going game the ball, you make

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Speaker 1: one move, you set up the block, and then you

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Speaker 1: make the cut and then you get the yards that

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Speaker 1: you can get. I think he's learned a lot from

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Speaker 1: watching al for Morris in this scheme where you are

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Speaker 1: going to be most of the times getting four yards

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Speaker 1: three yards, that that is good because you're waiting until

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Speaker 1: the the third, fourth, four when now you're gonna have

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Speaker 1: a tire defense and you get six yards eight yards.

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Speaker 1: And now that he's understanding how how the run game

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Speaker 1: fits into the grand scheme of things and how he

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Speaker 1: fits into it, he's playing a lot better. Two more

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Speaker 1: for Jonathan Vilma, John, I know we didn't see Daniel

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Speaker 1: Jones last week, but how much do you think this

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Speaker 1: approach with the run game this team, you know, you're

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Speaker 1: not asking him to do a lot has helped contribute

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Speaker 1: to the fact that he's done a better job protecting

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Speaker 1: the football during this win streak. Yeah, you took all

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Speaker 1: the pressure off of Daniel Jones. I played against Ben

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Speaker 1: Roethlisberger his rookie year. We were both rookies at the time.

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Speaker 1: They were at fifteen and one. We actually lost him

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Speaker 1: twice that year, and I'll never forget it was all

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Speaker 1: about the run games. They had Jerome Bettis at the time,

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Speaker 1: and they were just pound pound pound. They didn't they

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Speaker 1: didn't as much of Ben, and he was able to

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Speaker 1: now kind of just grow into his role. And so

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Speaker 1: I think the the approach from the prior coaching regime

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Speaker 1: to put more on his plate wasn't the right approach

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Speaker 1: or wasn't the most effective approach. Now you're seeing the

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Speaker 1: fruits of the run game benefit for Daniel Jones. All Right, finally, John,

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Speaker 1: given what the Cardinals like to do on defense and

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Speaker 1: kind of the opposite of the Giants, right, they play

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Speaker 1: a ton ofment to man, uh, they let's a lot,

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Speaker 1: I think the second highest blitz rate in the league.

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Speaker 1: What does the Giants offense need to do against them

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Speaker 1: to have success in and what are some of the

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Speaker 1: issues that the Cardinals defenses bring to the field for offenses?

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Speaker 1: So for defensively. Um. It starts with Budda Baker. He

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Speaker 1: is phenomenal. I love watching this guy play. He is

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Speaker 1: uh throwback um, not the biggest guy, but he plays

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Speaker 1: so hard. He goes a hundred miles an hour. Man.

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Speaker 1: I would have loved to have played with Buddha Baker

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Speaker 1: as as my safety. He is great to watch. So

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Speaker 1: I hope all fans are gonna tune in. I don't

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Speaker 1: care if you're a Giants fan. You need to watch

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Speaker 1: this guy play because he brings it. He brings it um.

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Speaker 1: And with that being said, the aggressive nature of him

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Speaker 1: and the Colonel's defense, the Giants really have to just

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Speaker 1: be patient. You have to just be patient and stay

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Speaker 1: the course because with that aggressive nature, if you see

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Speaker 1: any of their games, they'll give up a big player

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Speaker 1: to a big player three in the game. And so

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Speaker 1: it's really just an at our time was saying, all right,

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Speaker 1: we're getting you know, two yards, three yards punning. It's fine.

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Speaker 1: At some point find the open man because he will

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Speaker 1: be open and will be a big game. As long

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Speaker 1: as you do that, you'll get your chunks when it's time,

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Speaker 1: and then you'll score the points. I gotta follow up

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Speaker 1: as a great linebacker. Are you waiting for the Isaiah

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Speaker 1: Simmons break out here? The guy is all the town

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Speaker 1: in the world. They haven't used the Matani's playing a

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Speaker 1: lot more recently. Are you waiting for him to finally

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Speaker 1: kind of pop in that role they're using him in

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Speaker 1: and make a big play. You know, I'm watching him

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Speaker 1: on film and as you said, has all the talent,

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Speaker 1: very athletic. I don't know if the way he's being

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Speaker 1: used is the best use of his talents. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I I look at a guy that is very, very

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Speaker 1: rangy um, but he doesn't have necessarily like the the

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Speaker 1: quick twitch of a Sam linebacker outside Rover. What he

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Speaker 1: had is you know, like this, you know, top end speed,

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Speaker 1: uh covers a lot of ground like a safety. Yet

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Speaker 1: I just told you about the safety. They got some

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Speaker 1: really good ones, right so you know, I can't see

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Speaker 1: where the position is just yet for him. Um. But

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Speaker 1: you know, right now, it just looks like he's trying

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Speaker 1: to feel his way, find his way into becoming that

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Speaker 1: guy that we saw at Clemson. Nah, John, I'm within

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Speaker 1: and coming out of school, I thought I saw more

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Speaker 1: of a safety too, as big as he was, the

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Speaker 1: way he played, but we'll see how they figure out

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Speaker 1: how to use him. John, really great stuff. I really

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Speaker 1: enjoyed a great insight. Thank you so much. Good luck

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Speaker 1: with the broadcast on Sunday. Have fun. Who would have

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Speaker 1: thought when you got this game on your schedule a

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Speaker 1: couple weeks ago it could be first place on the

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Speaker 1: line in the end of the East. But here we are. Yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be a good one. I'm excited for it. John,

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Speaker 1: that's Johnathan Vilma. Here's the call for Giants and Cardinals

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Speaker 1: at one o'clock on Sunday on Fox Sports. I want

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Speaker 1: to thank Jonathan for joining us, and you can check

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Speaker 1: out the archive of all of our Giant Subtle podcast

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Speaker 1: along with our Giants Rewind and Big Look kick Off

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00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: live archives on our podcast network, which is presented by

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Speaker 1: Investors Bank. You can find it on the Giants Mobile

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Speaker 1: appet Giants dot com, Slash Podcast, and all of our

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Speaker 1: favorite podcast platforms. For Jonathan Vilma, I am John Schmall.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for being with us. We'll see you

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Speaker 1: next time. Everybody, Stay safe,