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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is an owner. They

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Speaker 1: called me Ben. We're joined as always with our superproducer

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Speaker 1: Alexis code name Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. A quick recap for anyone

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Speaker 1: who missed our earlier Strange news segments. We covered a

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Speaker 1: recent court case here in the US regarding essentially homemade firearms,

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Speaker 1: and we received a lot of helpful feedback on this,

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Speaker 1: include being clarifications regarding the laws as they currently stand,

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Speaker 1: the ongoing debate in d C, and the various you

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Speaker 1: could call them stakeholders on all sides of the issue.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, guys, but the more

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Speaker 1: I looked into it, the more I realized this is,

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Speaker 1: yet again, at heart, a case of technology outpacing legislation.

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Speaker 1: Legislation just takes forever to catch up two things. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: legislation can be very reactive or ideologically driven. But our

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Speaker 1: question today is are their conspiracies of foot what do you?

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Speaker 1: What does this um emergent era of homemade firearms mean

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Speaker 1: for the future. To answer this question, we have to

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Speaker 1: first understand the incredibly unique position firearms hold in the US.

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Speaker 1: We were talking off air, Doc and Matt Nolan myself

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Speaker 1: about just our own personal experiences growing up around firearms.

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Speaker 1: Did you guys have guns in your house when you

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Speaker 1: were growing up? And there was never a gun family.

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Speaker 1: We were like a violin family. We didn't have weapons.

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Speaker 1: We had one bb gun that I was allowed to

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Speaker 1: shoot sometimes and that was it. That was going to

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Speaker 1: be the baseball bats as our home defense. Seriously, like

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Speaker 1: a special cabinet, like these are the baseball bats for

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Speaker 1: playing baseball? These are the ones for thwacking villains. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're really it's not a one use tool,

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Speaker 1: you know, um baseball, but that's a really versatile thing.

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Speaker 1: It's still what I have. Now I've got one right

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Speaker 1: by my feet actually, just in case you got a

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Speaker 1: metal one or a wood one. Now it's metal. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what's up. So so baseball bats maybe a

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Speaker 1: story for a different day, But here are the facts.

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Speaker 1: Gun ownership maybe a controversial issue when you get to

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Speaker 1: the specifics here in the US who should be able

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Speaker 1: to own which types of guns and so on, But

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Speaker 1: on a very basic level, firearm ownership is enshrined in

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Speaker 1: American laws under the Second Amendment. That means that firearms

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Speaker 1: have a cultural significance that doesn't really exist in a

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Speaker 1: lot of other countries. And if you're familiar with the way, UM,

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Speaker 1: I'm trying not to be doo snarky about this, but

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Speaker 1: with the way Congress works in this country, it can

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Speaker 1: be very difficult to um to change laws that require

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Speaker 1: a majority. So there's a spectrum here, and whether you

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Speaker 1: are on one extreme side or another, whether you think

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Speaker 1: there should be absolutely no gun ownership whatsoever by civilians,

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Speaker 1: or whether you think, uh, not only should I be

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Speaker 1: able to own whatever kind of firearm I want, but

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Speaker 1: it's also nobody's business, including the governments, what I do

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Speaker 1: with it and where I keep them, at cetera. No

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Speaker 1: matter how where you fall in that in that ideological space, uh,

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Speaker 1: the truth is that the Second Amendment is is not

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Speaker 1: going to go away, but it's there's no there's no

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Speaker 1: um practical way for that law to change or for

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Speaker 1: that amendment to be revoked. But there are many laws

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Speaker 1: that arguing nuances of this right and say that like

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Speaker 1: a handgun, you can have a handgun, but you can't

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Speaker 1: have you know, um, well a tank is a terrible example.

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Speaker 1: But you know, there's there's certain guns that legislators will

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Speaker 1: say you shouldn't have unless you are in the military.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, people can still get fully automatic weapons at

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Speaker 1: like gun shows, right, yeah, yeah, And this is something

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Speaker 1: where the system can become so byzantine because it goes

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Speaker 1: state by state. UM there are a lot of things

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Speaker 1: that UM proponents of gun controls as purposeful loopholes, and

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of things that proponents of gun

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Speaker 1: guns rights see as government overreach. But regardless of the controversies,

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Speaker 1: regardless of these concerns, we know this is an issue

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Speaker 1: that is incredibly important to a lot of our fellow

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realisticiting date. Regardless how you feel about it, the

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Speaker 1: simple fact is that in the US a lot of

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Speaker 1: people own guns. Yeah it's true. Um US has just

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Speaker 1: four percent of the entire world population, but fort of

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Speaker 1: civilian gun ownership of the entire world. Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And and as of last year, I think it's of

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Speaker 1: US households had at least one gun, or you know,

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Speaker 1: at least report to have one gun. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of these gun owners, probably the majority of them, site

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Speaker 1: you know, personal defense protection, uh, and in their Second

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Speaker 1: Amendment rights as like this is why have a gun? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And there and but I think it is important to

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Speaker 1: note there about that statistic that you just mentioned, Matt,

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Speaker 1: is this this is kind of it. We'll see, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a skewed distribution, right, Like a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who are that in that forty two percent just

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Speaker 1: have one firearm. It's at their house. It's probably under

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Speaker 1: lock and keys somewhere. Um, it's it's there's this stereotype

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Speaker 1: about this country that a lot of my friends from

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Speaker 1: abroad fully believe. And they're intelligent people, I should say,

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Speaker 1: they just fully believe that, Um, everybody in the US

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Speaker 1: is walking around in an action movie and we're all

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Speaker 1: strapped up, you know what I mean, whether we're going

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Speaker 1: to the library or to the local wing spot. It's

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Speaker 1: also kind of it can be kind of difficult to

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Speaker 1: break that stereotype for people who aren't from here, because

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Speaker 1: it's tricky to estimate gun ownership, like when we say,

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Speaker 1: for that is very that's a very large ballpark. It's

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Speaker 1: it's the same way that you know, certain ill informed

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Speaker 1: Americans might think that all French people wear berets and

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Speaker 1: have curly mustaches and wear like striped shirts and just

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Speaker 1: walk around drinking espresso all day and chain smoking cigarettes.

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Speaker 1: You know, some of them, sure do, I guess, but

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Speaker 1: you know, definitely not all of them. And some Americans

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Speaker 1: toute their guns to target. So it's it's there's a

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Speaker 1: reason the stereotype exists. Not all French people even speak French.

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Speaker 1: It's it's it has been known to happen from time

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Speaker 1: to time. Yeah, it's a um, it's a strange thing.

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Speaker 1: Like just personally, I currently do not own any firearms.

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Speaker 1: But in a different in a different life, in a

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Speaker 1: you know, another multiverse, if my situation wasn't as it

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Speaker 1: was with a wife and children, I would certainly own

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Speaker 1: multiple guns. Uh, like I would right now, I'm telling you,

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Speaker 1: but I don't because it it frightens me the thought

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Speaker 1: of having a firearm, no matter how locked down it

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Speaker 1: is in my house. So you know, but there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of family members out there, fathers, mothers, heads

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Speaker 1: of households that feel very comfortable having guns, and it's

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Speaker 1: just a regular thing, not only comfortable strongly about protecting

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Speaker 1: their homestead and their family, you know, against invaders or

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Speaker 1: whomever that imagined or real, uh, you know, individual might be. Um,

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Speaker 1: I have a quick question for you guys before we

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Speaker 1: move move on. I've been thinking a lot about the

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Speaker 1: Volstead Act lately. I've been rewatching um Boardwalk Empire. And

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Speaker 1: it was an amendment of the Constitution that that made

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Speaker 1: alcohol illegal, and obviously it was very controversial. It caused

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Speaker 1: a lot of corruption and a lot of problems. But

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Speaker 1: then you mentioned at the top of the show how

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Speaker 1: there's really no functional way, or be really functionally difficult

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Speaker 1: to amend or change the constitutional right to bear arms.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that is because it is a something

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Speaker 1: in the constitution that provides a right, as opposed to

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Speaker 1: removes the right, like the way the volts That Act

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Speaker 1: was ultimately walked back because it was a terrible, terrible

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Speaker 1: idea because because of all the things I mentioned. But

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Speaker 1: yet we have so many reasons that gun control maybe

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Speaker 1: should be enacted, but yet it seems very very difficult

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Speaker 1: from an ideological standpoint to do anything about it. Sure,

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Speaker 1: there's an ideological standpoint, Um, there's also uh, it's all.

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Speaker 1: It also directly touches an enormous industry. The US, by

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Speaker 1: several measures, is one of the largest weapons manufacturers in

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Speaker 1: the world. I know that can sound a little misleading

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Speaker 1: because weapons is a big word that encompasses uh many things. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It goes down to yeah, ideology, money, political capital, and

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Speaker 1: and you know, the thing is, like we've talked about

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Speaker 1: this before. Everybody agrees that there are any number of problems.

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Speaker 1: Right the heart where the conversation breaks down is the

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Speaker 1: idea of what would be the way forward, What are

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Speaker 1: the best next steps, what are the solutions to things

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Speaker 1: that everybody admits need to be fixed? Um, and this

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm endeavoring to be pretty objective here,

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Speaker 1: just personally and not not put my, um, any of

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Speaker 1: my own personal biases in this. When we talked, you know, Matt,

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Speaker 1: you said personally in a universe, Well, no, no, feel

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Speaker 1: like I I appreciate what you're saying. I think it

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Speaker 1: support because he said, I loved that you're basically like,

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Speaker 1: you know, in a universe perpendicular to ours or to

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Speaker 1: the left of hours. If these variables were different, I

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Speaker 1: would absolutely own again. And the thing about it here

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Speaker 1: is that you also would not have to tell anyone. Right,

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Speaker 1: There's the way it works is there's not a like

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Speaker 1: you might be surprised, fellow conspiracy realist, how many of

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Speaker 1: your friends and relatives do own firearms, just haven't told

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Speaker 1: you about it? And they have they don't have to. Uh.

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Speaker 1: That's part of this comes from the fact that there

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Speaker 1: is no federal registration requirement or similar regulation that would enable, like,

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Speaker 1: require you to report this stuff or enable an official

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Speaker 1: better than ballpark estimate. In fact, the opposite is the case.

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Speaker 1: There is a federal level law about this, but it

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Speaker 1: is a law that is built to prohibit a central

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Speaker 1: registry of firearms owned by private citizens. And of course

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Speaker 1: these statistics were pulling our we need to understand these

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Speaker 1: are ballpark. There is a pretty fascinating report from eighteen

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Speaker 1: out of Switzerland by a group called the Small Arms Survey,

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Speaker 1: and they show that Americans own a disproportionate share of

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Speaker 1: the world's firearms overall. As you mentioned, no four percent

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Speaker 1: in the world's population shian civilian owned guns globally, and again,

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Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of those numbers sound weird,

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Speaker 1: but not everybody's strapped. A lot of people have like

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Speaker 1: one firearm at their house. And then you know, out

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Speaker 1: of those nine people, there's a there's a tenth person

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Speaker 1: who's very Jeffrey Allen lash about it, and he's got

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Speaker 1: he's apparently got a woman army, more guns than he

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Speaker 1: could ever fire, more AMMO than it could ever use. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe not quite Jeffrey Allen lash level. Hopefully. I know.

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Speaker 1: It's just I'm showing the extremities of the spectrum here.

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Speaker 1: You have like million rounds of AMMO or something insane

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Speaker 1: like that. It was some absurd number. Yeah. Ammo bien

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Speaker 1: is interesting because you'll you'll hear reports of AMMO shortages

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Speaker 1: and it often coincides with political cycles, and people say, hey,

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Speaker 1: you need to make sure you have AMMO. There will

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Speaker 1: be a shortage, or there may be a law banning

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Speaker 1: all firearms, or there may be a law that somehow

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Speaker 1: prevents you from buying ammunition for firearms. So like in Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: there maybe a gas shortage, so make sure you hoard

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Speaker 1: all of the gas. People will do it. I don't

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Speaker 1: say that. Uh well, I think we mentioned that right previously.

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Speaker 1: Gas goes bad. Yeah, okay, okay, good. Just to make

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Speaker 1: that clear, how long did it take? Again? Takes months?

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Speaker 1: About your look, it could go bad in as early

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Speaker 1: as three months, so you would look at three to

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Speaker 1: six months unless you put in a stabilizer. In all fairness,

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Speaker 1: diesel will last about a year on the shelf. But

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Speaker 1: they're living chemicals, you know, so they're going to degrade anyway.

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Speaker 1: The Small Arms Survey and all these questions in the air,

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Speaker 1: they estimate that American civilians all together own three hundred

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Speaker 1: and ninety three million guns, making the country number one

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Speaker 1: in terms of firearms per capita. But again, it's not

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Speaker 1: an equal distribution. If you come to the US, you

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Speaker 1: might be surprised at how weird gun purchasing laws are.

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Speaker 1: Or if you've never bought a gun and you were

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Speaker 1: thinking about it and you you started looking into it,

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Speaker 1: you'll quickly find that the law is very state by

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Speaker 1: state in almost like in so many ways. So instead

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Speaker 1: of walking through all fifty states and there are various requirements,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's most helpful to give just an example of

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Speaker 1: from Georgia. So the process is pretty straightforward here. You

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Speaker 1: don't need a ton of stuff and you don't need

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Speaker 1: firearm training either. You just need to be over twenty

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Speaker 1: one UM or I think eighteen. If you have an

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Speaker 1: honorable military discharge and you can't be a convicted felon

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Speaker 1: that is restricted from owning a gun, you just need

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Speaker 1: a valid state issued I D driver's license, State i

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Speaker 1: D blockbuster card. UH. I knew that in hand. Yes,

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Speaker 1: trudos that everyone who kept one. UH. And then you

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Speaker 1: know you'll get a background check if you're buying from

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Speaker 1: a licensed dealer. UH. There's something that happens in other

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Speaker 1: states that is similar to Georgia. If you already have

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Speaker 1: a Georgia weapons license, that counts as your background check

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Speaker 1: because you passed it already to get that license. And

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Speaker 1: also if we're hanging out and you know, um, we're

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Speaker 1: off air and um Matt decides to uh privately like

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Speaker 1: sell a gun to UH code named Doc Holiday or

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Speaker 1: UH Doc decides to just give a gun like literally

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Speaker 1: give it as a gift. Maybe then there's no background

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Speaker 1: check involved. You also don't need any license to keep

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Speaker 1: it at your house. You only need a permit or paperwork.

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Speaker 1: If you plan to carry it in public, then you

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Speaker 1: would need something like to carry per minute you can

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Speaker 1: still carry that costs about seventy bucks seventy five bucks

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Speaker 1: at the local probate court. So Georgia also is one

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Speaker 1: of the easier states. Um they have reciprocity with about

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Speaker 1: thirty two other states, meaning if you have firearms, if

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Speaker 1: you have if you're good in Georgia, you're good in

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Speaker 1: those states. Exactly. It's an interesting thing. I just happened

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Speaker 1: to have recently sold a car, and it's a weird

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Speaker 1: thing where you've got well, it was for as anyway,

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Speaker 1: it's for almost no money to a family in my

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Speaker 1: neighborhood that I needed a car, and I didn't want

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Speaker 1: it anyway. But the circumstances aside. In order to do

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Speaker 1: that in the US, especially here in Georgia, you have

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Speaker 1: a title for that vehicle. It's a piece of paper

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Speaker 1: that you you physically have to sign and give to

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Speaker 1: the new owner, and that way they can use that

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Speaker 1: piece of paper that shows ownership when registering that vehicle, right.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's odd to me that there's no system

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Speaker 1: like that with a weapon, where you'd have a piece

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Speaker 1: of paper that says this weapon was registered to me,

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Speaker 1: I am now going to sell it to this other person.

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Speaker 1: And now they have that piece of paper with that weapon.

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Speaker 1: It seems like that would be a thing. Overall. The

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Speaker 1: point is this, there is a series of systems in place.

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Speaker 1: Supporters of the current system believe it's better than nothing,

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Speaker 1: and warned that too much oversight many regulations are outright

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Speaker 1: banning can create a kind of slippery sloop, with the

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Speaker 1: fear being that the bottom of this slope is eventually

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Speaker 1: a situation where all firearms are illegal, or even more extreme,

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Speaker 1: the Second Amendment itself is repealed, which again and I think,

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Speaker 1: in our collective opinion, will probably never happen. Opponents have

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Speaker 1: gun ownership in the current system argue that it has

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Speaker 1: been purposely broken by any number of bad actors, corrupt politicians,

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Speaker 1: lobbying groups like most infamously the n r a UM.

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Speaker 1: They point to the valid and disturbing data surrounding mass

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Speaker 1: shootings in the United States, which we can't not mention. Right, Um,

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Speaker 1: there's the statistics are there, they are inarguable. Uh, these

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Speaker 1: systems are going to remain controversial. There's gonna be criticism

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Speaker 1: from nearly every stakeholder you can imagine about one thing

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Speaker 1: or another. But now there is a new trend in

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Speaker 1: the field, and it's one that may fundamentally change the

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Speaker 1: state of firearms in the US and in the world. Gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: we are looking at the rise of the ghost gun,

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Speaker 1: or we will be looking at it afterwards from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. But so, what is it

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Speaker 1: we talked about this strange news? Is it a gun

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Speaker 1: that shoots ghosts? Is it a gun? Like? No, no,

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Speaker 1: not shoots them as in, like shoots at them like

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Speaker 1: instead of bullets. There's a fire ghost because I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of into it. Ah, Yeah, I would be into that.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's do that. If we can find a way

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Speaker 1: to get ghosts into AMMO, we're definitely going to do that. Technology,

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Speaker 1: as you said, always outpaces the physical laws. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I assumed it was a gun that's designed to kill ghosts,

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Speaker 1: that would be used by a ghostbuster of some sort.

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Speaker 1: Could be, but no, in this case, a ghost gun

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Speaker 1: is simply referring to essentially a homemade firearm. Really, that's

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Speaker 1: what it is. A firearm that is not going to

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Speaker 1: be as easily traced as a firearm that you would

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Speaker 1: purchase from a large gun manufacturer. Yeah, it's true. I

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Speaker 1: mean and that's the thing. This this term, it really

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Speaker 1: is an umbrella term because it encompasses a lot of

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Speaker 1: different kind of flavors of these things, right, so you

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Speaker 1: can have totally improvised Like I mentioned I think on

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Speaker 1: the air on a previous episode, how these ghost guns

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Speaker 1: reminds me of the thing that John Malkovich made out

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Speaker 1: of like a composite plastic and in the line of

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Speaker 1: fire that he could sneak charity. Uh, this isn't that,

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Speaker 1: but it definitely could be a mcgiver ask type mishmash,

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Speaker 1: you know, assembly of different parts that could you know,

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Speaker 1: equal a gun um or it could be like a

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Speaker 1: kit kind of thing like you would buy for like

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Speaker 1: electronics for example, where you can make your own gun

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Speaker 1: at home. Because that sounds like fun. But at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, they all have two things in common.

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Speaker 1: They are a gun um that can shoot bullets, and

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Speaker 1: they don't have a serial number. I'm sorry, there's a

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Speaker 1: third thing they don't have. They have in common as well,

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Speaker 1: they don't require a background check. Yeah, and it's entirely

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Speaker 1: legal in the US too, as symbol a firearm on

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Speaker 1: your own. There's there's really interesting interview with a former

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Speaker 1: a t F operative named David Chipman alcohol to back

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Speaker 1: Loom of Firearms Burero thereof, let's make that less complicated,

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Speaker 1: the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Exclusives. We just

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Speaker 1: call it a t F. And Chipman says, building a

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Speaker 1: gun in your home has always been lawful, but it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a big issue because being a gunsmith requires some

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Speaker 1: serious skills and equipment, and people who did it were

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Speaker 1: mostly hobbyists and they had a lot of time on

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Speaker 1: their hands. Yeah, and you know, to to build a

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Speaker 1: weapon from scratch like that, or to actually be a

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Speaker 1: person that can literally fabricate the individual parts, that requires

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Speaker 1: some training, that requires a lot of equipment that your

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Speaker 1: average person wouldn't have. So I guess the assumption there

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Speaker 1: is that these people are going to be mainly, like

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Speaker 1: you said, Ben, hobbyists that are kind of doing this

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Speaker 1: out of the passion of the craft or whatever and

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Speaker 1: not necessarily for nefarious purposes. Um, But I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It seems to me like if they're if these people exist,

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Speaker 1: surely there's someone that like this that does this exact thing,

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Speaker 1: like an off the books gunsmith for a criminal enterprise.

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Speaker 1: You think that would be someone that would be very

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Speaker 1: attractive to, you know, folks like that. It's possible, But

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Speaker 1: Chapman stay, these types of weapons, no matter who is

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Speaker 1: manufacturing them, very seldomly actually show up when there's a

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Speaker 1: crime committed somewhere and there's an investigation and they're looking

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Speaker 1: for a specific weapon. The ghost gun isn't a thing

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Speaker 1: that is just seen all the time, or it wasn't.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't that that's that's well, yeah, that's the that's

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Speaker 1: the thing too. When you think about what somebody is

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Speaker 1: going to do or what strategy they're going to take

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Speaker 1: in the course of planning like a heist or a crime,

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Speaker 1: they're going to look for probably the fastest, most convenient thing.

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Speaker 1: And the issue was that it was, you know, it

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Speaker 1: was easier to get a gun. It was easier to

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Speaker 1: get an existing gun than it was to have someone

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Speaker 1: build one in most cases. Uh this is before you know,

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Speaker 1: the rise of three D printing, which will make guns

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Speaker 1: that aren't as good or as durable as traditional guns,

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Speaker 1: but we'll still get a job done for a short

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Speaker 1: amount of time. And yeah, Chipman says this has changed.

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Speaker 1: He argues that it's easier than ever to build an

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Speaker 1: untraceable firearm, and he thinks that it's becoming a routine

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Speaker 1: strategy for criminals and drug traffickers. But there's there is

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Speaker 1: one interesting note we have to just be transparent about

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Speaker 1: with Chipman. He retired from a t F. He's now

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Speaker 1: a senior policy advisor for a gun control organization, so

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Speaker 1: he definitely has a horse in the race. That organization

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Speaker 1: is called Gifford's. That doesn't make him wrong, We just

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Speaker 1: we just think it's fair to also acknowledge that he

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Speaker 1: is coming from a very specific perspective. And then we're

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Speaker 1: talking about specific perspectives, let's talk about firearm hobbyist enthusiasts

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Speaker 1: would be gunsmith's right, armchair Gunsmith's. They're gonna argue, rightly,

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Speaker 1: so that it's misleading to portray every person who wants

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Speaker 1: to build a home firearm as somehow a criminal mastermind.

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Speaker 1: In a lot of cases, they would argue, and this

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Speaker 1: is true. People just want to build one for the experience,

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Speaker 1: for the feeling of accomplishment, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Like I was trying to think of a good analogy.

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Speaker 1: This is not a perfect analogy. But we all know

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Speaker 1: someone who had a project car, right, it's their garage. Baby.

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Speaker 1: They might they might be working on for months, it

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Speaker 1: might be years, it might never end, you don't know,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's probably not going to leave their garage. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They somebody might get a fixer upper car or just

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Speaker 1: even components if they're super ambitious, and tinker away on it,

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Speaker 1: possibly forever, and then when they're done, you know, they

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Speaker 1: just like wash it. They take it out and they

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Speaker 1: wash it and they drive it around on the weekends,

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Speaker 1: because it's more about the experience of working on the thing,

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Speaker 1: you know. And in some cases it's like that somebody

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Speaker 1: just wants to say, Hey, I'm interested in engineering and

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Speaker 1: build this myself. And now they're like, oh, weird, I

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Speaker 1: have a gun, and I guess I'll take it to

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Speaker 1: a range, But really I just I wanted to build

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Speaker 1: it like Legos or even then you have a gun

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Speaker 1: for home defense one day if you need it, but

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Speaker 1: you may never even shoot it. You may never even

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Speaker 1: do anything with it besides putting in a display case. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which I object to. I think if you have I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's no be tricky to write a law for it.

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Speaker 1: But I believe that if you have a firearm in

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Speaker 1: your home on everybody of age should be aware of

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Speaker 1: of how guns work and what what guns safety means,

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Speaker 1: because there are a lot of deaths in the US

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Speaker 1: that are attributed to somebody not knowing how to operate

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Speaker 1: a firearm or you know, the tragic extreme example as

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Speaker 1: kids playing with a loaded weapon, and it does happen.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, that's a real concern. Let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the concerns with ghost guns. A t F prefers to

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Speaker 1: call them privately made firearms. And you might hear some

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Speaker 1: people in the debate say that ghost guns itself is

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Speaker 1: like a politically loaded term, but loaded, But in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's just the cooler word. And because we're

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Speaker 1: talking about a government organization, they can never use the

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Speaker 1: cooler words. They always have to always have to have

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Speaker 1: the boring, dressed up dry ones. Anyway, they're concern is

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Speaker 1: that what we've talked about, that bad actors, criminals may

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Speaker 1: conspire to create and use off the grid firearms for

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Speaker 1: illegal stuff. And it's true, you know, it's it's not

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Speaker 1: anybody's opinion. It's just a fact that if like say, um,

427
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: like Noel, maybe some stuff went down, you can't legally

428
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,719
Speaker 1: purchase a firearm, but you absolutely need one. It's been

429
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: a crazy weekend. You know, it's a Guy Riching movie now,

430
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: and you needed a gun. There'd be some part in

431
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: the movie where you're like, I can't buy one, but

432
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: we know a guy who can build me one. So

433
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: this could be a way around that law if you

434
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: were a criminal in that case. And it all goes

435
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: down to a component of the firearm, which is known

436
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: as the receiver. That's right, It is all about the components.

437
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: The Gun Control Act of Night was a thing that

438
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: was passed after um U S Senator Robert F. Kennedy

439
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: and Dr Martin Luther King Jr. Were assassinated um and

440
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: it mandated that all firearms be marked with serial numbers

441
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 1: on the frames or receivers to make them traceable by

442
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: law enforcement. I actually didn't realize that it was that

443
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: relatively recent that that that the serial number became such

444
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: a thing. It's sort of like having a bin number

445
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: on your car. You know, they're all printed in the

446
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: same place and they're easy to locate, and then you

447
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: can trace the chain of custody of that car. So

448
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: within things like this, you always have loopholes that derived

449
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: from these very nuanced legal terms, what exactly defines a gun?

450
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: What exactly is a firearm. It's the same thing with

451
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: like cryptocurrency, like is it a security or is it

452
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: a currency? And that determines the regulation surrounding it. Um

453
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: So it hinges on this nuance of what legally constitutes

454
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: a frame or receiver. Which that's the problem with all

455
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: of these legal terms, it's so easy to pick them

456
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: apart if you don't go overboard and identifying your terms

457
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: and the setting them up. So the Code of Federal

458
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: Regulations defines a fire frame a firearm frame or receiver

459
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: as quote that part of a firearm which provides housing

460
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: for the hammer bolt or breech block and firing mechanism,

461
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to

462
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: receive the barrel. That seems pretty explicit to me. But yeah,

463
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: as we'll see, it doesn't always add up to that.

464
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: All weapons are a little bit different. But the main

465
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: thing you need to know here is that if you're

466
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: thinking about a pistol, you've seen in movies, you've seen

467
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: in television, you've probably maybe you've held one, but it's

468
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: you've got the handle part, you've got the barrel part,

469
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,479
Speaker 1: and in the part in the middle that connects all

470
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: that stuff together. That's generally the way I at least

471
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: think about the frame or the receiver. Yeah, and and

472
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: though it seems explicit, you know, we're we're entering the

473
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: treacherous waters of legal language, which means that things that

474
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: are not explicitly spelled out open to negotiation, you know

475
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: what I mean, it's up for debate. This is where

476
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: if you look into it, you'll see a response from

477
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: another A t F spokesperson, C. C. Glass May. In

478
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: glass May uses an A R fifteen type rifle receiver

479
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: blank as an example. And if you look at a

480
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: picture of this on the A t F website, you

481
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: can see what what they declare as differences between an

482
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: eight percent receiver or a complete finished receiver. And it's

483
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: a pretty simple diagram. If you can a receiver and

484
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't have holes or dimples, it hasn't been machined

485
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: out right, for things like the trigger selector hammer pins,

486
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: there's the fire controlled cavity, hasn't been machined all that

487
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: good stuff. Then it's technically not a firearm. It's an

488
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: interesting chunk of you know, aluminum or whatever. And that

489
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: is fine, if you can sell aluminium left and right

490
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: and no one really cares. I guess people who care

491
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: if you're like moving weight. But then you'd be like

492
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: an aluminum dealer, or like you would own a mind.

493
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's a different story. But because of this,

494
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: according to Glossmate, if the receiver blank is solid and unmachined,

495
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: the cavity area hasn't been dug out and there no

496
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: holes or dimples, that it doesn't meet that night definition

497
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: of a firearm. It's only when, uh, the rest of

498
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: the work, the machining work is finished. So when you

499
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: buy what could become a ghost gun, you're buying pieces

500
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: of something that in the present state, do not constitute

501
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: a firearm. You have to build it at home, a

502
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: keya style. One thing. One thing we need to clarify

503
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: from that strange news segment is that we had we

504
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: have found some sources saying it was easy to build these.

505
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: That's a little misleading. It is easier to build these

506
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: than it would have been in the past, but easier

507
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: than does not automatically make something easy, right. I mean,

508
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: there's a there's a thing here where gun control advocates say,

509
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: you know this shift makes it possible to sell gun

510
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: kids and parts. They're very simple to put together, even

511
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: for someone without any training. They say, you know, you

512
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: can just figure out how to use the drill press

513
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: the other tools you'll need, and you can follow instructional

514
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: videos available on YouTube. Yeah, that's true, but it's still

515
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: probably if you're not familiar with it and you haven't

516
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: looked into this, it's probably still not as easy as

517
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: you might assume, you know what I mean, Like, it's

518
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: not if if someone did this in fifteen minutes, it

519
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: would be because it is a movie and it's part

520
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: of an action montage and fictional Well, and we get

521
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: into a weird thing here because it's I don't want

522
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: to reference some of the stuff too soon. But it

523
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: really comes down to how determined an individual is to

524
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: do a thing right, and you can apply that to anything,

525
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: from something is as relatively simple as changing a headlight

526
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: in your vehicle to like you said, assembling some i

527
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: Keia furniture to repairing the roof of your house. These

528
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: are all things any one person can do, but it

529
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: just depends on how determined you are to do it

530
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: and how much time you're willing to spend learning how

531
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: to do it. Yeah, that's true, and I appreciate the

532
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: point because that does apply to a great many things.

533
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: If you want to get a quick sense of this,

534
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,479
Speaker 1: we are going to be recommending several things available on

535
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: YouTube if you want to get a quick sense of this.

536
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: There's a neat little video from Wired in where a

537
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 1: senior writer at the time, Andy Greenberg, who is not

538
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: a gun enthusiast, is not an experienced machinist. He successfully

539
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: assembles an a R fifteen type firearm at home, and

540
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: he walks through the process of buying these gun components,

541
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: and he's focusing on that eight percent lower receiver, so

542
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: it's eight percent finish. It doesn't have that the rest

543
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: of the machining work that we just talked about. So

544
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: he hasked to figure out how to do that on

545
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: his by himself, and he is, you know, tabula rasa.

546
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: He is learning from day one. So he tries three

547
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: different strategies traditional drill press right, which would ordinarily use Uh.

548
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: He doesn't have a ton of luck with that because

549
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's his first time out of the gate.

550
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: Don't be too tough on him. And then he tries

551
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 1: three D printing and ultimately he reaches success and builds

552
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: a usable firearm with a computer controlled milling machine called

553
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: the Ghost Gutter, which is also a great name. I

554
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: would play that video game. I was surprised to learn

555
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: that the Ghost Gunner is only about dollars have by

556
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: far the best results. It's an interesting little feels like

557
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: a CAD machine, just a small version of one, and

558
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: it does exactly what it says it does. Yeah, it's built.

559
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 1: If you go on your web on their website, um,

560
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: you'll see that they say you don't have it. You

561
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: don't have to have any CNC experience. It gives you

562
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: the types of tasks it can perform and the specific

563
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: types of firearms, the receivers that it can work on.

564
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,919
Speaker 1: So it's useful and it's Uh, it's a democratization of technology.

565
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: That's something we've talked about as well. A quick question,

566
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: I mean, if you can three D print a gun,

567
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: does that mean that it's made of some sort of

568
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: like non metallic composite material or can you three D

569
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: print metal? Because I didn't think you could. Yeah, is

570
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 1: so the Ghost Gunner is able to machine existing metal.

571
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: The three D printed guns, which are also can be

572
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: home made on are going to be from from like

573
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:34,439
Speaker 1: a non metalic component, so they're there. It varies from

574
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: what I understand, but a lot of the three D

575
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: printed weapons are considered good for a certain amount of shots,

576
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: like one like this will work for one thousand to

577
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: two thousand uh routes, right, because then they're still gonna

578
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: be at this point less durable. But of course if

579
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: that's used in a crime, the opponents of these practices

580
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: would say then less than don't worry it's us durable.

581
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: Is a terrible thing to tell victims of a crime

582
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 1: who were there when the gun was working. But doesn't

583
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: that mean it is possible to do that? The John

584
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: Malkovich in the line of fire thing to have a

585
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: type of material that won't get picked up on on

586
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: airport security scanners or metal detectors somewhat is Somewhat it is.

587
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,919
Speaker 1: And you know what, guys, why don't we why don't

588
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: we take a quick break and we come back. Let's

589
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: jump right into three D printed guns and a lot

590
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: of the issues around them, and uh, some of the

591
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: mass shootings that have occurred, and we've returned, so we

592
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time looking at the U S here.

593
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: But obviously this isn't just the US. Technology knows no

594
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 1: geopolitical boundary. There are plenty of specifically three D fire

595
00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: our makers abroad. And this was examined by our end

596
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: and colleague Jake Hanrahan, the creator of Popular Front we

597
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: interviewed earlier about his series on qu and on He

598
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: he made a documentary documentary called Plastic Defense, which is

599
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: but it's a little less than a half hour. It's

600
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 1: more than worth your time if you want to learn

601
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: about this, and I think it really kicked off reporting

602
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: in the West about the motivations and the beliefs of

603
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: people who are making three D firearms that would function

604
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: they would also function as ghost guns simply because they

605
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: don't require a background check, they have no serial number,

606
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: all the reasons we named earlier. And you know, we

607
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: have a huge opinion of Jake. He does great work

608
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: and it's it's uh, it's a fascinating interview to watch,

609
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: especially because they don't totally agree. He talks with an

610
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 1: anonymous firearm manufacturer named Jay Stark or calling themselves Jay

611
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: Start right, Yeah, Jay Stark is associated with this thing

612
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: called Deterrence Dispensed, which is a group a decentralized group

613
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: that offers three D printed gun plans, very detailed plans

614
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: to create your own three D printed weapons. And this person,

615
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: Jay Stark, says that they were inspired by this announcement

616
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: and video and a series that was put out by

617
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: someone named Cody Wilson who was the creator of Defense Distributed,

618
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: and they were showing this weapon called the Liberator pistol.

619
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: And no, it's exactly what you were talking about, or

620
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: very close to what you were talking about. One large

621
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: three D printed piece that was essentially the entire weapon

622
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: except for the handle in a couple I think maybe

623
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: a few other parts that were in there. I'm not positive,

624
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: but it's the kind of thing that you were talking

625
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 1: about that you may be able to get through some

626
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: kind of metal detectors, except for you know, if you

627
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: have a metal round. But well know, you had those

628
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: in your Lucky rabbits foot that you put in the

629
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: bowl that you don't have to go through, and that's

630
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: what that that's what they did in the movie. Um,

631
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: but what about a firing pin or like the mechanism

632
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 1: that that seems like that would have to be metal, right, Yeah,

633
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: there there's quite a few components to a weapon like

634
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: that that you would need to to install. Um. But

635
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is this, so this guy

636
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: got inspired by this thing that was kind of like

637
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: what you're talking about, but it was meant to be

638
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,239
Speaker 1: shot once. That Liberator pistol is designed to be fired

639
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: one time, because, as you stay before, those materials weren't

640
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: meant to last. What this person, Jay Stark, wanted to

641
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: do and what he did and this just centralized group.

642
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,720
Speaker 1: They created versions that are way, way, way more durable

643
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: that Ben Ben. I think you quoted a thousand to

644
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: a couple of thousand shots. That's that's what These weapons

645
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: that they are now creating plans for are meant to

646
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 1: do be fired thousands of times. And you know it's

647
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: they're being created in Europe in places where it is impossible,

648
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: it is illegal to purchase a gun or ammunition for

649
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: a gun. And it's a fascinating piece of reporting that

650
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: Jake put out. I cannot recommend watching it enough. And

651
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: there's a ton we can talk about. I don't want

652
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: to derail us too much, but I would say some

653
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,959
Speaker 1: of the ideological stances put forward by this person, Jay Stark,

654
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: I identify with them in a lot of ways. I

655
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: think a lot of us would listening to this right now, Well,

656
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: Jay Stark could be uh, you could argue that his

657
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: stance is absolutist, which is why I don't think Jake

658
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: was fully on board with all of the ideas. But

659
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: one thing, one valid point that's about was the worries

660
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: of the rise of far right wing uh fascism or

661
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, those kind of networks springing up. And there

662
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: was a wave of that for some time. And you

663
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: can understand how someone who is concerned about that kind

664
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: of regime taking over in a country where the laws

665
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: do not allow them to have any sort of firearm,

666
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: you can understand how they would say, okay, well things

667
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: might pop off, and you know, not not to add

668
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: to too many nuances to it, but let's say you

669
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: are a you're a member of an ethnic minority, and

670
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: you're seeing a troubling rise to power from a group

671
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: that wants to do bad things to you. Then in

672
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: that case, it is absolutely reasonable to say, hey, I

673
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: need to prepare. This isn't something I want to improvise

674
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: when things go south. And just to give you one

675
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: quote from j Stark from this video, we were discussing

676
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: how easy or difficult it is to create one of

677
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: these three printed weapons, and you know, how much do

678
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: you have to learn? And how would you learn it?

679
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 1: Jay Stark has this quote, and I just want to

680
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 1: read this to you. Jake asks him, you know, how

681
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: did you learn how to do all this stuff to

682
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: create these plans and put them out there? And Jay

683
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: Stark says, quote, the most powerful tool for this in

684
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: general was the Internet. The Internet enabled me to do

685
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: all this. I was able to learn all the information

686
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: that I needed through YouTube, through Wikipedia, through various forums,

687
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: and through chatting with other enthusiasts. There's one thing that

688
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: you really have to take in mind here, motivation. All

689
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: of this information is available out there and it has been,

690
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: but why isn't everybody doing it? Because they don't have

691
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: the motivation to do all that. It goes back to

692
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: I think that's what you're referring to when you said,

693
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: you know, it's the amount of time. Um more, it's

694
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: the amount of dedicated time that becomes even more critical

695
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: than the amount the tools needed, right because tools are

696
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 1: useless without the knowledge to wield the And this so

697
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: this brings us to another thing, Like you, I'd love

698
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts on that interview. J Stark's motivations

699
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: the larger conversation, and we have to we have to

700
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: acknowledge that we're talking about the US. The larger conversation

701
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 1: about things like ghost guns does go to mass shootings

702
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: and crime. And it's tragically true that homemade firearms have

703
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: been used in crimes, including mass shootings. Just a couple

704
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: of years ago, there was a guy named Aaron Luther

705
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: who used it. He was a fellon who had got

706
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: out and he had a homemade firearm, a ghost gun,

707
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: and he was in a routine traffic stop and he

708
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: pulled it and ended up shooting three California Highway Patrol officers.

709
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: And then also in California, well a few years earlier,

710
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: twenty three year old named John Zawari used a a

711
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: R fifteen assembled at home to murder five people. I mean,

712
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: you know, we fired about a hundred rounds within thirteen minutes.

713
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: And there are more examples than this, but they all

714
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: prove the same thing. This loophole can be exploited by

715
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: people with nefarious intentions. The question is how do we

716
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: prevent these tragedies from occurring. The proposed solutions run the

717
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: gamut right, and the leaders of the US do not

718
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: agree on what the next step should be, and the

719
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: voters don't seem to all agree either. It's not inherently unusual.

720
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: It would be extraordinary if people in the US agreed

721
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 1: on anything, Honestly. It's just we've got a lot of

722
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 1: people here, um, and they're very strong feelings about this problem,

723
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: about what to do on all sides. And that's where

724
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 1: we have to ask what will the future bring. Currently,

725
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: as we said at the top, it is unknown how

726
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: many homemade firearms or ghost guns are in the US today. Uh,

727
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: there's no solid way to know exactly how many are

728
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: out there, and there's even less of a way to

729
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: know how many are being used for prime or legal

730
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: purposes versus being someone's home project. You know, I imagine

731
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: there's some like there's some homemade replica antique guns right

732
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: for gun collectors were like, I want to, you know,

733
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 1: some very specific fancy gun from the eighteen hundreds, But

734
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: of course I can't buy that because they're only like,

735
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: you know, forty two of them in the world. But

736
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: I can make one and then they, you know, they

737
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: have their cool replica and will they tell people it's

738
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 1: a replica, or will they try to act like it's

739
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: just the antique. Well, that's up to their character. That's

740
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: a replica. You see the you see the words that

741
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: are down the side of mine. Desert Eagle. Yes, yeah,

742
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: that was back when guy Richie made good movies. Remember

743
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 1: that that was cool? Um, I don't heard his new

744
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: one is fine, But he made that. He really tried

745
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: going Downhill and he made that Madonna Desert Island movie

746
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: that people said was just unwatchably bad. But wasn't there

747
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: another one? There was another joke in that movie that

748
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: said replica, Right, didn't I make that up? I'm in

749
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 1: my mind picturing a gun saying replica in some action

750
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: movie and that being a big twist. But maybe it

751
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: wasn't the Is it Snatch? Man? I'm sorry. I had

752
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: a really hard time. No, no no, no, it's been a

753
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: long time I've seen either Snatch or lock Stock. Ye, funny,

754
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: funny story. Those are two different movies. That always gets me,

755
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: you know, watching one after the other and you'll be like,

756
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: what's that? Is that one movie or two? Anyway? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

757
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 1: mine says Desert Eagle, blah blah blah, and yours says replica, Yeah, yeah,

758
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: that's what they're gonna stand up. I'm sorry, I was

759
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: just making sure it was from the same Yeah. So

760
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: speaking to segways, this is an important issue to everybody

761
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: in the future. Legislation was introduced in the U. S.

762
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 1: Senate in May of just about a year ago that

763
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: wanted to that was aiming aiming geez uh to require

764
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 1: all frames and receivers, even even the unfinished ones, to

765
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: already have serial numbers. And then the law would also

766
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: require the d I Y do it yourself gun builders

767
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: to go in person to a federally licensed dealer of

768
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: receivers to buy these components uh. And then they would

769
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: have to have the same background checks as people who

770
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: are buying fully assembled firearms. And then you know, people

771
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: who are pushing for this law are saying, look, if

772
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 1: you're an enthusiast, you want to build something like this

773
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: for fun, it's not going to stop you. The whole

774
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: point of it is not to stop you, but it's

775
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 1: to make it more difficult for convicted domestic abusers, gun runners, felons, terrorists,

776
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: and so on to acquire untraceable weapons. And this legislation

777
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: was very recently introduced. Ben didn't just happen, it got reintroduced. Yeah. Yeah,

778
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: so revised version of this legislation just got reintroduced um

779
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 1: this week, a few days before we recorded this, and

780
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: that makes it another hot topic. It also happened around

781
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: the same time the Department of Justice issued a proposal

782
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: that expands their official definition of what constitutes a firearm.

783
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: So now they're they're going to be saying we want

784
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 1: to call we we want firearm to also mean any

785
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: any kind of weapon of this type that you can

786
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: assemble at home. The n r A is not happy.

787
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 1: This is really kicking the pants for them. And they

788
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:53,280
Speaker 1: said the proposed Department of Justice rule could quote destroy

789
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: the American firearms industry. And I wanted to ask you

790
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: guys about that. Is there some we're missing in the legislation,

791
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 1: like what what about that regulation would destroy such a

792
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 1: huge industry? Yeah, that is true, because we're just the

793
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:16,919
Speaker 1: legislation is focused directly on these pieces or components, right. Yeah,

794
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: I just don't understand, and I'm not you know, I'm

795
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: not I'm not trying to be I'm not trying to

796
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: just pick a fight with them. I just don't I

797
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: don't understand what specifically about that registration would uh would it?

798
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 1: Are they saying it would damage sales of those components? Maybe,

799
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: but even then those components can't be the bulk of

800
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: of money that's made in with guns in the United States.

801
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 1: My god, Smith and Wesson isn't like exclusively trying to

802
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: get those receivers out the door. They're trying to sell

803
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 1: their guns. Maybe it's the maybe maybe the argument is

804
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: something along the lines of, uh, increased costs or burden

805
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: of responsibility for people selling the stuff because they have

806
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: to do the background checks. Um, yeah, well that's There's

807
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 1: a spokesperson for the n r A, Lars dull Siege,

808
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 1: who said the proposed rule would do nothing to address

809
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: violent crime while further burdening law abiding gun owners and

810
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: the lawful firearm industry with overbroad regulations. So please let

811
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: us know, like what, how would this have a delatorious

812
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: effect on the firearm industry. I'm interested to know because

813
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: you get multiple claims of conspiracy regarding this technology and

814
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: these firearms. But what is the conspiracy. It depends on

815
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: who you ask. Some people say, well, it's leads to

816
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: a conspiracy by criminals. Series of conspiracies by criminals to

817
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: remain untraceable. And then someone else, I don't know where

818
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,959
Speaker 1: we are when we're having this conversation. We're um hate

819
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 1: being stuck in an elevator. We're we're waiting to take

820
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: a plain flight, and we're just we're just kicking it

821
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: at what's an airplane restaurant? Airport restaurant? You guys like Chili's.

822
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: We're a Chili's. We're Chilis. And the flights are delayed

823
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: so long that everybody's had a few drinks and we're

824
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 1: talking about gun rights because we're fun at parties. Uh

825
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: so yeah. So one person, you know, one person is

826
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: like finishing up their cheese sticks and they're saying, once

827
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 1: the criminals they want these guns to be untraceable, they're conspired. Yeah.

828
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: Then I'm like, no, no, no no, man, it's the government.

829
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 1: They're trying to take away our rights. M hmm. And

830
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 1: then the server who's also been there for a while

831
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 1: and has really made a bond with you guys. Now

832
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: it's like past the work relationship you had. Uh. The

833
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 1: servers say no, no, no, you gotta follow the money.

834
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: It's a conspiracy by lobbyists to keep making cash in

835
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: the firearm industry? Would you like another Corona? And so

836
00:51:56,280 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: weird situation is a weird conversation even because uh, everybody

837
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 1: is making a valid point. I think, yeah, that's the

838
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: thing there, there are valid points in all of these positions.

839
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: Like a criminal act is you know, often inherently a conspiracy.

840
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 1: It's conspiratorial, you're trying to get away with something. And uh,

841
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: the idea that there would be government overreacher, that there

842
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: would be an erosion of rights, specifically for firearms. You know.

843
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people will lean on the

844
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 1: precedent that in the past, powerful governments have done things

845
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: to remove rights from citizens. But that's not that the

846
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 1: problem is that just doesn't apply to the US. That

847
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: applies to the entire world, you know. And then the

848
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: lobbyists making money. The weird that nobody ever talks about

849
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: this in the U. S. But lobbying is strange. You know,

850
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: if you explain that to someone who's not from the US,

851
00:52:57,760 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, yeah, bribery, you know, no, no, no, no, no,

852
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 1: no no no, no, briberies illegal, bro, you gotta call

853
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: it lobby. Yeah. It almost feels like the way the

854
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: n R A has kind of recently almost had to

855
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: walk some things back, and like kind of seems to

856
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: be maybe losing its stranglehold over this whole situation. Maybe

857
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 1: not entirely, but it seems to be slipping a little

858
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: bit based on some recent news events. Wonder if it's

859
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:26,280
Speaker 1: worth examining in a whole episode or you know, delving

860
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: into the history of it and what the future might be.

861
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: And we do we ever do a lobbying episode? Oh god,

862
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: if we haven't, that's another one. That's just you're right.

863
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: It literally has legalized bribery. We have a video series.

864
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: We do big video series and lobbying. Yeah, but I

865
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: don't know if we did an audio show on it yet.

866
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: It wasn't great. It was a great UM television show

867
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: called k Street that ended up getting pulled, not because

868
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 1: it was bad. It was. It was a pretty good show.

869
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: It got pulled because it was too realistic. Yeah, it's dangerous.

870
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: This is dangerous. It says a dangerous his ghost guns.

871
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: So hey, I wanna right before we wrap you guys,

872
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,800
Speaker 1: I want to read one more quote from Jay Stark

873
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: that the creator there of deterrence dispersed. I wanna ask

874
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 1: you listening to this, what's your opinion on this kind

875
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: of ideological stance, because I find myself agreeing with Jay Stark,

876
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: But then I also very much agree with Jake about

877
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: how dangerous what deterrence dispersed as doing. So it's it's interesting,

878
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 1: I wonder where you would find yourself. Here's a quote

879
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 1: from Jay Stark, the guy who's helping people three D

880
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: print guns. He says, quote, I'm of the opinion that

881
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: to bear firearms is a human right. The government or

882
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 1: the entity that has rule over you, has an executive force,

883
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: the police, the military, they have firearms to be able

884
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 1: to escape that injustice. Citizens need to have the same

885
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: force on the individual level as the executive force of

886
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: the government entity that is a rule over them. Yeah,

887
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: and you know, we're very much not telling people what

888
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: to think. These are important questions and there are questions

889
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: that are going to continue being relevant, right, not again,

890
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: not just in the US, in the world, because the

891
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: one thing you cannot do is remove the technology from

892
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 1: the wild ones that exists. There's no there there are

893
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: very few cases of that ever actually happening a hundred percent. Uh,

894
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 1: we want to know what you think about lobbying, right,

895
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: We want to know where you stand on this. Reacting

896
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: to the quote Matches shared from Jay Stark, and we

897
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 1: also wanted one more, one more quote right there because

898
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 1: the technology I have to give it to you, ready.

899
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: This is what Jay Stark says. What you have to

900
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: realize is the advancement of technology has no politics. The

901
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: Adam Bomb, chemical weapons, d I. Y Rock, It's I E. D. S.

902
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: Technology has no politics. So it's that it's again that

903
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: argument of like it just depends on who's wielding the

904
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 1: tech and no no geopolitical borders or boundaries, you know.

905
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: And that's um one of the things that I brought

906
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: up to with the Poseidon super sub. Yeah. So this

907
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 1: is this is going this is going to continue to

908
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: be a relevant issue and a problematic one for a

909
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: lot of people. Where do you think the conspiracy lies?

910
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: If indeed conspiracy there is I we want to hear

911
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 1: from you. We try to make it easy to find

912
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: us online. That's right. You can find us a conspiracy

913
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 1: stuff on Twitter and Facebook, conspiracy stuff show on Instagram.

914
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: And while you're at I want to hop over to

915
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,879
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. A five star

916
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: review would be preferable to help people discover the show

917
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: and also make us, you know, feel good in our

918
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: little hearts. That's right, And you can also give us

919
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: a call. We have a phone number. It is one

920
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:06,160
Speaker 1: h three three st d w y t K. Please

921
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: let us know what you'd like for us to refer

922
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: to you as. Let us know if we can use

923
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 1: your message on the air and leave your message, and please,

924
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: if you don't mind, use your three minutes that you

925
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: have in that message to be concise as concise as possible.

926
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:23,919
Speaker 1: And if you've got a lot more to say, if

927
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 1: you've got links, you want to share a picture, you

928
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 1: want to send us anything like that, please use our

929
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: email address. You can send us anything any time right now.

930
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 1: In fact, we are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com.

931
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

932
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,

933
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

934
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.