WEBVTT - #246 Jason Flom with Clinton Young 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:05.280 In two thousand and one, at age eighteen, Clinton Young 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.000 was newly released from Texas Juvenile prison and was the 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:10.640 youngest and newest member of a group of acquaintances with 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:15.360 David Page, Mark Ray, and Darnell McCoy. That November, Clinton 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.079 was present when David Page shot and killed two men 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.520 in separate incidents, Doyle Douglas and Samuel Petrie. After the 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:25.520 second incident, Clinton split from Page, who immediately went to 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.440 the police to control the narrative. All four men were 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.560 brought in, and while Clinton refused to cooperate, Ray and 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:35.120 McCoy joined Paige in exchange for leniency. When it became 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:37.839 clear that Clinton was being targeted for the death penalty, 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.600 he made suggestions to police that turned up evidence corroborating 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:47.160 his innocence. However, that evidence was either explained, ignored, or disappeared. 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.720 The state's case the trial relied solely on the incentivized 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.600 testimonies of Paige, Ray, and McCoy. The defense failed to 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:58.680 point out conflicting details and inconsistencies in their testimonies or 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:03.080 the ballistics in DNA evidence that corroborated Clinton's version of events. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.920 Without access to destroyed or missing evidence that exculpated Clinton. 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:10.920 He was convicted and sentenced to death. While Clinton's appeals 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:15.200 were repeatedly denied. Growing evidence of Page, Ray and McCoy's 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:19.080 false testimony, as well as new forensic evidence exculpate and Clinton, 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:21.920 eventually led to a stay just a week ahead of 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:26.640 his execution date in twenty seventeen. Soon, David Page's confession 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:31.000 on the record, along with the revelation of significant prosecutorial 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:35.040 misconduct affecting hundreds of cases, including Clinton's, led the court 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.640 to overturn his conviction. But he's not out of the 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:56.640 woods yet. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.720 So often since I started making this show over five 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.200 years years ago, we do an episode where I go, Okay, 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:07.000 now I've heard everything, but now maybe up to today, 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:09.320 I can really say that because you're going to hear 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.200 some stuff today that is truly mind blowing, even by 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.480 the crazy standards of the rawful conviction cases that we 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:20.960 cover week in and week out. Because this case involves 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:23.680 an innocent guy who ended up being sentenced to death, 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.760 We've heard that story before. It involves an advocate who 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:32.320 moved from the Netherlands to Texas, so that she could 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:35.720 represent and try to get justice for our subject today, 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:39.720 Clinton Young, and get ready for this one. It involves 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:45.560 a prosecutor who was moonlighting writing opinions for the judge. Yeah, 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.560 you heard that correctly. The prosecutor was making a little 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:53.440 extra money on the side writing rulings in his own cases. 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:58.480 So now I can catch my breath and introduce the 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.200 very woman I was just talking to you about. I'm 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:06.000 proud to say, Attorney Meryl Pontier, welcome to wrongful conviction. 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.639 Thank you so much for having me Jason. 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:13.440 And now fresh out of death row. Actually, those are 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.040 some crazy words you even have to say. And live 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:21.000 from the Midland County Jail, we have our featured guest today, 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.440 Clinton Young. Clinton, welcome to wronful conviction. 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:25.560 Thank you for the opportunity. 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:27.919 Now to explain this to our audience. Clinton is off 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.920 the death row. Otherwise I'd be conducting this interview in 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.440 person at the Polunsky Unit in Livingston, Texas, outside of Houston. 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.839 But instead he's on the phone from Midland County Jail, 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:39.640 where he's a way to get decision about whether he 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.760 will be retried or perhaps released to a weight retrial 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.800 or the charges may be dropped all together considering the 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.920 story that you're about to hear, And I feel like 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:52.560 I really should give a bit of a disclaimer here. 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.400 As some of our guests have exhibited criminal behavior prior 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:59.160 to their wrongful conviction, That's definitely true for Clinton. I mean, he, 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.160 you know, who up in a very difficult environment. You know, 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.440 had a history of drug use and car theft and 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.560 different run ins with the law, all of which are 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:11.480 just background that ultimately led to him being present during 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.040 the commission of two murders for which he bears no 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.240 culpability other than being next to someone who decided to 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:22.640 make that grim choice to kill the same person that 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:26.039 ultimately pointed the finger at him. Now, by his own admission, 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.520 he could have done more to bring that person to justice, 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.279 But the fact is he did not plan or take 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.520 part in these murders. So while you may not agree 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.240 with all of Clinton's choices, first of all, you can't 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.360 walk a mile in his shoes. And two, he didn't 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:44.520 actually kill anyone. He's innocent of both murders for which 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.480 he was convicted. But we're getting ahead of ourselves here. Clinton, 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:49.080 tell us about your life growing up. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.920 Well, I guess to still have my life and the 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:56.560 chaotic path. My mother was seventeen, my father was thirty five. 0:04:56.680 --> 0:05:00.160 He lied about his age lot about having kid, ends 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.680 up pregnant, They get married. He was very, very very 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.200 abusive to her and his other children. So after she 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:09.839 has me, he continues to beat on her, so she 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:13.000 finally leaves. Matter of fact, my dad basically kidnapped me 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.039 from my mom and only would give me back to 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:19.520 her if she signed papers saying that she wouldn't request 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.600 child support and all this stuff. So fast forward some 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.080 time he meets my stepfather and they moving together. They 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.400 get married. I was hyperactive also, and eventually the school 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:33.360 decided to put me on add medication rhythming and they 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.799 didn't help anything. You know, it made me feel worse, 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.320 and you know, I had problems in school beyond that 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.279 growing up. You know, my stepfather unfortunately was an alcoholic 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:44.480 and I wasn't his son. But there's usually a dynamic 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:48.680 that takes place with stepchildren and stepparents is usually a conflict. 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.360 So then my mom and my stepfather are arguing all 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.839 the time because how he acts towards me. So my 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:54.839 home life was really. 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.760 Chaotic growing up well, that would be such a difficult 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.000 situation to grow up in for anyone from that environment. 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:02.560 You ended up with some run ins with the law, 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.880 and those were minor things, relatively speaking, but such that 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:07.880 you ended up spending two and a half years in 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:09.080 juvenile prison in Texas. 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.480 So this all started in the Longview area in Texas. 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:18.720 Clinton just got out of juvenile prison and I think 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:23.000 that traumatized him heavily, and he got addicted to drugs 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.600 and started hanging out with the people that you don't 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:30.359 want your kids to hang out with. Mark Ray, David Page, 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:34.280 and Darnell McCoy, his co defendants in this case. One 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:38.599 day in November two thousand and one, David Page, Darnell McCoy, 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.760 Mark Ray, Clinton, and Doyle Douglas were all sitting in 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:46.120 a car and they were on their way to buy drugs. 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:50.960 Clinton was sitting in the passenger seat and Doyle Douglas 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.599 was driving the car. It was his car, and the 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.120 other three were sitting in a back And as soon 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.320 as they arrived at the house where they were going 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.120 to buy drugs, David Page got out of the car 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.840 got up to the front door of the house. There 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.680 was some confusion there was no drugs. They didn't buy drugs. 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:11.640 And David Page walks back to the car and he's 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.680 standing on the left side of the car. Clinton is 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:18.560 still sitting inside on the passenger seat, and at that 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:23.000 point Doyle Douglas gets shot in the head twice. David 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.960 Page has always said that Clinton was someone who did it, 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.760 and Clinton has always said that no, David Page did them. 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.600 And it's important to note that it doesn't really matter 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.480 what David Page said because Doyle Douglas is head wound. 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:36.520 Support Clinton's version of advance. 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:38.840 All sit in the pass and see the car, though 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:40.840 Douglas was sitting in the driver's seat of the car, 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:43.520 and they said I saw the flakes in the head. 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:45.920 There's no way I could have because he was shot 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:47.200 in the left side of the head, in the back 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:48.760 of the head. How cats she the person that lifts 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:50.320 side of the head and over three feet away if 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:51.760 I'm in the passioner side of the car. 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:56.440 It's ridiculous. So there isn't an opportunity really to agree 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.240 or disagree about this gunshot when you'd have to suspend 0:07:59.400 --> 0:07:59.640 all this. 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.840 What they all agree on was that after that happened, 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.720 the body of Doyle Douglas was put in a trunk 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.200 and they drove to a secluded area in the woods 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:15.520 where the body was dumped and Mark Ray shot Doyle 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.680 Douglas a third time in the head. Now after that, 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.080 they all get in the car Doyle Douglas's car, and 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.760 Darnell McCoy and Mark Ray are dropped off at their 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:32.640 homes while Clinton and David Page drive off and Clint 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.839 was going to go see his girlfriend who was at 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.640 that time in Midland on the other side of Texas, 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.600 and David Page decided to ride along with him, and 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.240 after a few hours in the car, David Page didn't 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.120 want to drive around in Doyle Douglas's car, so he 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.800 decides he needs a new vehicle. They stop at a 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:58.440 Berkshire store parking lot and a man named Samuel Petrie 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:04.160 is kidnapp and his car is taken, and, according to 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:08.240 David Page's own most recent confession, as he walked up 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:12.120 to Samuel Petrie's car, hold him at gunpoint and said 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:13.640 you're coming with us? 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.040 And Clinton, did you know this was happening? 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.559 I just fee him kidnapped. I was inside the store 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:22.320 and I walked out and David Page was sitting in 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:24.959 the truck talked about that. What's up, and He's like, well, 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.280 we needed a big and so I got back in 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.720 the car and I got David Page's gun and I 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:33.920 emptied it. And I even told mister Petrie. I said, look, man, 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.199 trying to figure the situation down. I said, look, don't 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.800 worry about nothing. That guns empty, man. Okay. He's like, 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.640 I don't understand. I said, look, man, the situation got 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:43.640 out of control. We've got to just try to saw 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.520 everything out. Okay, but just relax. The guns empty. And 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:48.640 by that time Page got back in the truck and 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.400 I gave the guns back the Page, but I didn't 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:51.920 tell him it was empty. I was just trying to 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:53.960 figure out how the best resolve it and the best 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.439 way possible it. I'm not saying I made the right 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:58.800 choices in life or anything like this, but I took 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.760 effort to make there's nothing happened to this man. I 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.120 saw a sleep short after that. Right sometime period wh 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:06.120 while I was asleep, he found out the gun was empty. 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.960 I just woke up at Headland and I told David 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.200 Page said, look, man, she keep pet this dude, go man, 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.640 I mean, this shit needs the end. So I had 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.240 to call my girlfriend on the phone and I told Page. 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.880 I said, oh, man, I accidentally use the phone. I said, Look, 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:22.800 nothing get happened to this dude. He said, they're gonna 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:24.840 trace it back on us. In my mind, I thought 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.400 I was doing the smart thing right, trying to protect Petrie. 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.680 I talked to my Eggs and she says that the 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.280 police are looking for David Page. And I looked over 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:35.360 the Page. I said, hey, they say you need to 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:37.640 talk to your dad because the textans ringers are looking 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:39.600 for you. And he said for what, And I said, 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:41.240 but it start to happen, he texted her, I guess. 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.280 And when I said that, the irons get big and 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.840 he snaps his head and looks back at seeing of Petrie. 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.920 What I found out later was while I was asleep, 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:53.120 he's sitting there talking to this guy about this whole 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.240 life story, and he told them all kinds of stuff 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.240 about him. So if I go back to sleep and 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.040 I woke up with the gunshots, Clint. 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.640 Was asleep at the time that David Page pulled over 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.800 at the oil field and the gunshots woke him up. 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:12.360 And that's actually confirmed by several people who were in 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:16.320 the Mintley County jail with David Page before trial, but 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.800 also in twenty ten when Clint had an evident Sherry 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:23.680 hearing and David Page was bragging about the murder, how 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.199 he killed Samuel Petrie, and how he put all the 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.680 name on Clinton, and how Clint was actually a sleep. 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.360 I woke up with the gunshots. I dumped ovand I 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:34.640 ran back there. The pantry was laying on the ground 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.120 and he was standing there, and I was like, man, 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.440 what the fuck. I was tossing them out, basically saying 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.599 like I gave my word, nothing's going to happen to 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:43.800 this guy now. I said, Man, you're supposed to let 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.000 him go. And he kept saying he knew too much, 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:48.040 he knew too much, that he knew my name, he 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:48.680 knew my name. 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:59.600 This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.440 AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.240 a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:08.960 in the communities where we work and live. In light 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.800 of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.680 in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.920 the AIG pro bono program provides free legal services and 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:24.240 other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:35.440 Several hours later, unfortunately, mister Petrie is found shot dead 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.920 in the head in an oil field. Data Page goes 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.960 to the place, turns himself in and says that Clint 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.240 was the one who did both murders, and Clinton later 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:47.200 gets arrested in Midlands. 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.240 I mean, I don't know if anyone knows how they 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.800 would react if they were in Clinton's shoes. He was 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:58.400 dealing with somebody whom he knew to be extremely violent 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:03.240 and capable of murdering him, murder one person ultimately a second, 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.800 and I don't envy him being in that situation. And 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.400 we know that so often in these situations, the person 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.600 who goes and then points the finger at somebody else 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.320 gets better treatment. So Page goes to the police and 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.920 puts all the blame on Clinton. But neither scene was 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.000 ever really investigated. Right Minor states the cops never even 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:23.440 went to the first crime scene. 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.920 They did not investigate the first crime scene at all. 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.319 They did not go out there to check anything. The 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.280 only thing that they did is they took possession of 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:37.440 the car of Doyle Douglas and they investigated the trunk 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:42.199 for blood traces to confirm that Doyle's body was indeed 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:46.360 put in the trunk, and that was confirmed. After they'd 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.360 done that, they destroyed the car, so they didn't test 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.000 it for a gunshot resident or anything to determine from 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:56.240 which position shots were fired. They could have done a 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.880 little bit more then, just investigate the trunk, but they 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.680 destroyed the car after that, so no investigation can be 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.400 done at this point. That's about as much as they did. 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:11.439 Okay, so they destroyed the car at any other evidence 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:15.160 in there what remained of it anyway, And luckily the 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:19.480 ballistics and gunshot was from the first incident exculpaid Clinton. 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.400 But for the second murder they didn't really do much 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.440 of an investigation either. They took a few pictures at 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.640 the brookshears, but didn't obtain the surveillance video, or so 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.720 they claimed, the very same surveillance video that would have 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.280 exculpated Clinton. Nor did they find the gloves that David 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.720 Page wore when he shot Samuel Petrick until way later, 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.080 and they only found those when Clinton told them to 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.440 go back to the scene, something he did when it 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.720 became clear that they were going to pursue the death 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.760 penalty against him, because at first, when David Page pointed 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.920 the finger at you, they brought you in Clinton, and 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:57.240 you knew how they operated and were not going to cooperate, right, 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.280 You knew better than to cooperate, was what we always 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.520 tell the audience. Don't talk to the police anyway. Tell 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:03.080 us about that. 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.040 They put me in one room asking question. I said, 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:06.520 I want lawyer. They put me in another room and 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:08.200 had a female to take them coming down and talked 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.200 to me. I told her my name, my security number, 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:15.160 and my address, properly identify myself and she don't answer 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.920 me questions, and like I said, hey, I told you all. 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.760 I wanted an attorney, and she goes jirk. I die. 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.280 I was like, yeah, you're not helping your situation like that. 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.080 Talk to me, not crazy. So she storms out and 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.320 they're playing this game or they opened the door in 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.480 another room diagonal. I see my ex girlfriend sitting there. 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:34.800 They close the door. They opened the door again. I 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.520 see my coldercenter sitting there. She comes back in there 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.360 and she's all that, yeah, we got you, and he's 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:42.560 telling us everything we need to know. I said, okay, 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:44.760 I guess you don't need me. Huh. But I've dealt 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.200 with enough cops. I know what. They try to sell it, right, 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.560 and I'm like, okay, whatever, lady, I said, look, I 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:53.080 don't know what the heard you're talking about. I was asleep. Okay, 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.840 I ain't killed nobody. I said, look, test my hand, 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.760 take my DNA, take my hair and samples whatever. I 0:15:58.760 --> 0:15:59.720 ain't kill nobody. 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.400 So when Clint was initially arrested, he did not cooperate, 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.400 but after it became clear that he was their intended 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.400 target for the death penalty, he made a few suggestions 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:12.560 to investigators that would prove his innocence, and at this 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.280 point police only had taken pictures at the Berkshire's parking 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.120 lot and had not obtained civilians footage that would have 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:23.240 shown David Page kidnapping Samuel Petrie while Clint was actually 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.880 inside the store, but that footage was either never obtained 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:30.360 or conveniently lost. David Page had also told them about 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.560 a seven to eleven where they had stopped, which had 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:36.360 an unintended effect. They obtained civilians footage that showed that 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.160 Clint had not kidnapped David Page, but rather when that 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.520 Page was alone in the truck with the gun and 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:46.160 Samuel Petrie for over eleven minutes. Surprisingly, the police knew 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.320 that because David Page admitted it, and this clearly impeached 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.120 a state's theory at trial that Page was kidnapped and 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:55.240 under Clint's control. David Page could have done whatever he 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.760 wanted in those eleven minutes if he was in danger 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.680 from Clint, but he wasn't. Detectives to find to the 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.840 existence of this footage, but the prosecution denied that it 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.040 was ever handed over to them, so that was not 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.719 present that trial. Now. Clint also told them to go 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:10.919 back to the second crime scene and find the clothes 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.760 that David Page had worn when he shot Samuel Petrie 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.760 and to test them for DNA, But unfortunately the gloves 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:18.359 were not used to the way this should have been 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:19.560 a trial right. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.040 They could have tested them for gunshot residue and David 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.880 Page's DNA, which would have corroborated Clinton's version of events. 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.439 They sent the gloves to the crime lab, and instead 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:29.840 of testing the inside of the gloves for DNA and 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.880 the altsign for GSR, they requested DNA testing on the 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:38.840 outside of the gloves, and the DPS lab was confused 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.879 by the requests, so they called up the Midland County 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.400 districturnys Off. There is a record of this. The expert 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:47.399 at the DPS lab, the part of public said the 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.040 crime lab tided, are you sure you want DNA testing 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.399 on the outside of the gloves, on the inside of 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.400 their gloves, and they also explained to him, look, these 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:57.720 gloves were brand new. Who were about the gloves and 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:01.119 the DA told them only do DNA on the outside 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:05.800 of the gloves. So the ballistic guy was afraid to 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:10.200 do GSR type testing because he knew the chemicals could 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:14.600 destroy the DNA. So basically the way they've done the 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.840 requests for the gloves, it made it where no proper 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.800 tests could be done on the gloves. My lawyers had 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:23.120 to request DNA testing on the inside of the gloves 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.639 and it shows David Page's DNA well. The DA's office 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.440 talked to David Page about the gloves and the lead residue. 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.480 So David Page got on the stand and said, oh, yeah, 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:35.840 those are my gloves. I worked in them all the time. 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.600 I used them to move scrap metal, lead pipes and 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.040 things like that. That made it with the gloves was 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:45.359 of no value to me forensically, But the DA's office 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.080 did not tell my attorneys that the expert had told 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.760 them those gloves were brand new, and it just so happened. 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.159 My COATA said had bought them gloves the ninth of 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.040 November twenty fourth, two thousand and one, at an easy 0:18:56.160 --> 0:19:01.400 Marked gas station in Longview. Well in six my lawyers 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.080 they got permission to get testing on David Bator's love 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.800 and he come back saturated and got shot residue. 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.920 Right, But we're getting ahead of ourselves, So Merril, how 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.440 long was it from the time of Clinton's arrest till 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:12.919 the trial? 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.280 He got arrested in November two thousand and one, and 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.800 his trials started in I believe in March two thousand 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:24.280 and three. So Clint gets two court appointed lawyers who 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:30.240 represented him, and the state's theory was that Clinton so 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:34.399 badly wanted to see his girlfriend in Mittler County that 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:38.560 he was willing killed two people in order to steal 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.960 their vehicles so he could drive from Longview to Midland 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.840 to go see the girlfriend. That was the state's overall theory. 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.640 And there was no DNA evidence. There's no forensic evidence, 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:55.320 no ballistic evidence that conclusively pointed to Clint as the shooter, 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.560 so all the state had to work with was witness testimony. 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:03.320 David Page said that Clinton shot Doyle Douglas in the 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:07.800 head in the car. Mark Ray and Dardill McCoy confirmed that, 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.280 and Mark Ray also confessed to shooting Doyle Dougas in 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.480 the head when they dumbed him in the isolated area. 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.880 Doyle Douglas had three gunshot wounds in his head. Two 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.000 gunshot wounds came from the same gun, and then there 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:24.480 was a third gunshot wound which came from a different 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:27.040 gun on the right of the head. The third gunshot 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:30.320 wound was inflicted by Mark Ray. So we're working with 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:34.800 two gunshot wounds that were inflicted while everyone's still sitting 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.239 in the car. How is it logical for Clint to 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.320 shoot Doyle Douglas on the left side of his head 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:43.840 and the back of his head while he is sitting 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.560 on his right side and David Page is standing on 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:49.680 the outside of the car on the left side. So 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:53.320 he was in the perfect position to shoot the victim 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:54.040 at that point. 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:56.639 Right did did defense attorneys even bring that out for 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:57.159 the jury? 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:00.359 They do mention it kind of vaguely, but they do 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.439 not point out well enough for the jury that that 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:07.040 was the case. They should have done a better ballistic investigation. 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:10.400 They didn't, and I think they should have better highlighted 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.879 the position Clint was in and Douglas was in and 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.359 David Page was in to show that Clint could not 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.040 have been the shooter in the first case. All the 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:23.440 jury heres is David Page saying that Clint shot the victim. 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.040 Darnell confirms it, Mark Ray confirms it. 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:29.560 Okay, So everything that they said about the initial gunshots 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.760 that killed Doyle Douglas are actually confirmed to be lies 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:36.800