1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Mankie listener Discretion advised. 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: The year was sixteen sixty two and the owners of 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 2: a little sweet shop in London were running their fingers 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 2: over their newest acquisition, an antique cedar chest. Their fingertips 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 2: found a strange opening in the body of the chest, 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: a hidden drawer. Perhaps they used a knife to pull 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: at it. The drawer opened, and inside not the treasures 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: they may have dreamt of, but a beaded necklace, a cross, 10 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: and some handwritten books the sweetshops made. Wasn't especially interested 11 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 2: in whatever someone's old books might have to say. She 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 2: had work to do. But as she baked her pies 13 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 2: atop the pages she was using as parchment paper, the 14 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 2: smell of caramelized sugar spinning in the air, it was 15 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: hard to ignore an uncomfortable feeling stirring in her gut. 16 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: When she looked at the books pages. They were strange. Yes, 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 2: they contained words and dated entries, as she might have expected, 18 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: But the pages also contained diagrams and signs and symbols 19 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: that she didn't understand. Unnerving symbols, triangles inscribed inside circles, 20 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 2: intricate stars that pointed toward what might have been Greek letters, 21 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: maps of what might have looked like planets, complex mathematical 22 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: symbols that could only be witchcraft. She quieted her mind. 23 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: She lifted the surely devilish pages one by one, and 24 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: one by one let them blacken in the fire beneath 25 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 2: her baking pies. But it didn't take long before other 26 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: people started noticing the strangeness of the pages that hadn't 27 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 2: been burned. One antiquarian realized that these pages weren't just 28 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: some devil's unhinged ramblings. They were the lost diary of Renaissance, 29 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: England's greatest conjurer, the occultist, once employed as astronomer to 30 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: Queen Elizabeth the First, a man named John Dee. John 31 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 2: Dee was one of the most fascinating characters in all 32 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 2: of Elizabethan court history. He was a learned mathematician and 33 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 2: also a magician, an astronomer, and an astrologer. He was 34 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: a trusted political advisor to the Queen. He was a scientist, 35 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: a cartographer, and even a special effects technician. He was 36 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: also an angelologist, a Christian lawmanser, an occultist and a 37 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 2: dabbler in alchemy. He was a student of Hebrew and 38 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: the Jewish mystical tradition of Kabbalah. In addition to Christianity, 39 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 2: he believed he spoke with angels, both angels from the 40 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 2: Old Testament and some of his own discovery. He recorded 41 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: completely credulously his angelic conversations with the likes of the 42 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: angels Raphael, Gabriel, Michael, and Uriel. It may seem impossible 43 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 2: to us now that someone so invested in the occult 44 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: in sorcery could have had such a serious political career 45 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: in a royal court. But it was the fifteen hundreds, 46 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: the Renaissance. The classic Renaissance man did it all in 47 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: part because it all was not so neatly divided into 48 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 2: branches as it is today. Math, magic and miracle were 49 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: not entirely distinct from each other. Politics were ordained by God, 50 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 2: after all. Queen Elizabeth herself believed in the royal touch, 51 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 2: the magic of her fingertips upon her subject's next to 52 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 2: heal their ailments. The latest optical science was recognizing that 53 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 2: light could bend it separated into rainbows through lenses and 54 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 2: mirrors and crystals, where was the line between that science 55 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: and the idea that gazing into a crystal ball might 56 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 2: reveal concealed dimensions of God's creation, just as it revealed 57 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 2: the different bands of color concealed within light. John Dee 58 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 2: was a man who studied the heavens, and in fifteen 59 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: seventy two he looked up as all of England cowered 60 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 2: at a new star that suddenly appeared in the night sky, 61 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: followed by a range comet. In fifteen seventy seven, and 62 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: under the light of that comet, the Conjuror John d 63 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: made a political plan for his queen. He encouraged Elizabeth 64 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 2: to follow the path laid by King Arthur one thousand 65 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 2: years earlier, to expand England into a term he coined, 66 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: a British Empire. But the Great Conjurer would also do 67 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: something else. Under the light of that mysterious comet. He 68 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 2: would allow a man using a false name into his home, 69 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 2: a man who would ultimately be his downfall. This was 70 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: a man who would intercede with D's angelic conversations and 71 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 2: put a wedge between d and the court life he 72 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 2: was enjoying with Queen Elizabeth. When the Great Conjurer looked 73 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 2: up into the sky and calculated the positions of the planets. 74 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: It seems he couldn't have seen just how tenuous his 75 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: own position was. I'm Danish schwartz and this is noble blood. 76 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 2: John Dee was born in or around London on July thirteenth, 77 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,799 Speaker 2: fifteen twenty seven, during the reign of King Henry the Eighth. 78 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: He was the son of a merchant who served within 79 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 2: the king's court. If you're into astrology, you're in luck. 80 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 2: With this episode, Dee mapped his own birth chart, as 81 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 2: well as the astrological positionings of many of the events 82 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 2: that took place throughout the sixteenth century. According to D's calculations, 83 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 2: Jupiter and the Sun were strong together in Cancer at 84 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 2: the moment of his birth. I'm sure some of you 85 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 2: listeners can interpret those signs better than I can. Biographer 86 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:58,239 Speaker 2: Benjamin Woolley notes that the moon and the Sun were 87 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 2: in opposition in d'cas charts, and even I could tell 88 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: you that symbolically, at least in literary terms. That suggests 89 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 2: some internal conflict that might have been brewing inside him. 90 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: And so we begin today's episode appropriately in astrology, a 91 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: field with plenty of adherents still today a realm that 92 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: draws on astronomical science and then, at least in my estimation, 93 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: heads into the direction of belief. By fifteen forty seven, 94 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: John d was nineteen and England was transitioning from the 95 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: reign of King Henry the Eighth to that of his 96 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 2: short lived only son, King Edward. At that time John 97 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 2: Dee was in the midst of some personal drama of 98 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 2: his own, and I mean drama in the quite literal sense. 99 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: He was a student at Trinity College, Cambridge, and he 100 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 2: was putting on a play. It was a play called 101 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: Peace by an ancient Greek playwright, Aristophanes, and it called 102 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: for a dung beetle to fly with an actor on 103 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 2: its back. This was the fifteen hundreds. D did not 104 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: have the benefits of electricity in staging his play, let 105 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: alone projectors, lasers or drones. And yet the actor on 106 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: stage instructed his scare a beetle to lift him into 107 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 2: the sky, and it did. There was a gasp in 108 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: the audience next craned backward to watch in awe. How 109 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: was it possible the flying beetle on stage was like 110 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 2: a miracle, or else some thought like magic or as 111 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 2: some whispered as the play went on, it was witchcraft. 112 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: D must have dealt with the devil. Only a few 113 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 2: people in the crowd recognized that the beatle must have 114 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 2: been some application of mathematics. D probably used some combination 115 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 2: of Pulley's mirrors, springs, and pressurized air or gas to 116 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: create the illusion of a flying bug. But this was 117 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: a time when mathematics as a discipline were viewed as 118 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 2: essentially indistinguishable from conjuring. D was cast under suspicion. In 119 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 2: another life, we can imagine that D might have gone 120 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 2: on to become the best practical effects guy of the 121 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,719 Speaker 2: Elizabethan age. We can easily imagine a D who went 122 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 2: on to be an artist of the theater what D 123 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 2: himself called art mathematical. Of course, his beatle was considered wizardly. 124 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 2: After all, what is special effects technology today but something 125 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: we call movie magic. But aside from a brief stint 126 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: when he was a student, D wasn't really interested in 127 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: the theater. For D, the mathematical was only in service 128 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 2: of his true aim, which was the revelation of some 129 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: universal godly truth through the use of sciences that shaded 130 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 2: without distinction in his mind into magic, and eight years 131 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: later that lack of distinction between the occult and the 132 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: approved came home to D in the form of a 133 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 2: court order. It was fifteen fifty five and d was 134 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: under arrest. This was during Queen Mary's reign. D stood 135 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 2: accused of witchcraft, a serious charge under the new Catholic rule, 136 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 2: which was definitely not opposed to burning heretics at the stake. 137 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 2: D was also official accused of two other crimes, calculating 138 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 2: and conjuring. Again, in that language, you can see the 139 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: closeness of math and magic to this day. The word 140 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 2: we use for solving a math problem calculating, it means 141 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 2: something very different when applied to a person. A calculating 142 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: person implies that they're sly bad scheming. And John Dee 143 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: stood accused of doing the very thing that so many 144 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 2: astrologically inclined bridesmaids do for their friends today. That is, 145 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 2: mapping the horoscopes of Mary and her husband Philip to 146 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,719 Speaker 2: see if they made a good match. Kind of touchingly, 147 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 2: de found in favor of Mary and Philip's union. It's 148 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: pretty sweet, actually, His calculations suggested that their marriage took 149 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: place under an auspicious rising sign for a new couple. 150 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:04,599 Speaker 2: But of course flick Queen Mary, defensive about an unpopular marriage, 151 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 2: didn't exactly take the zodiac as a fun activity for 152 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: a bridal shower. Luckily, Forde he escaped the fate of 153 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 2: the heretics and outlived Mary, who died in fifteen fifty seven. 154 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 2: That was when Mary's younger Protestant half sister, Elizabeth, came 155 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: to the throne. Twenty five year old Elizabeth was the 156 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 2: daughter of King Henry the Eighth and the beheaded Anne Boleyn. 157 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 2: She was the second woman ever to ascend to a 158 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 2: throne that had been until recently only occupied by men, 159 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 2: and she needed to secure her reign. She appointed her 160 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 2: favorite Robert Dudley to advise her, and Dudley, needing the 161 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 2: good graces of not only the earthly but heavenly realms 162 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 2: as well as he put together Elizabeth's coronation, decided that 163 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 2: he needed the one man in England who could read 164 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: the planets better than anyone else. Robert Dudley called upon 165 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 2: John d. When John d agreed to choose the date 166 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 2: for Queen Elizabeth's coronation, it was the beginning of a 167 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 2: major life change for him. After being arrested under Queen 168 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 2: Mary's reign. Now he was not only set free, but 169 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: he was welcomed into Elizabeth's court. As his first order 170 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: of business, D consulted the stars. He measured and mapped 171 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 2: the angles between the planets, the positions of major constellations, 172 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: the twelve astrological houses, and rising signs. At last, he 173 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 2: decided that January fifteenth, fifteen fifty nine would be the 174 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 2: most Heavens approved date for the beginning of the Elizabethan Age. Obviously, 175 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 2: Mars was in Scorpio that day. After the coronation, history 176 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 2: loses track of D for about five years. I like 177 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 2: to imagine the stage magician's sleight of hand. Here D 178 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 2: ducking into a cleverly designed set piece through which the 179 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: audience of history can't see him. But he was somewhere 180 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 2: all along, studying the Jewish mystical tradition of Kabbalah. He 181 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: was seeking the secret names of God, learning the Hebrew 182 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 2: language and its mystical numerology, the alphabet arranged around the 183 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 2: first letter olive, middle mem, last tav, spelling out emmett, 184 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 2: the Hebrew word for truth. He was seeking divine truth 185 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 2: in increasingly more mystical modes, but D was far from 186 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 2: done with politics. Once history catches up with him again, 187 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 2: he steps out from behind the curtain. On June fourteenth, 188 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: fifteen sixty four, when he and Queen Elizabeth are walking 189 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: together at Greenwich Palace on the south bank of the 190 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: River Thames. D was holding something in his hands, a 191 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 2: slim book, and he was brimming with excitement and perhaps 192 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 2: a little bit of fear. He was about to show 193 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: the Queen the work of his soul, his Monas Hieroglyphica. Listener, 194 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 2: allow me to tell you the monas is truly wild. 195 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: It's a whole book dedicated to explaining a mystical symbol 196 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 2: of divine revelation that D invented himself. It looks kind 197 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 2: of like a cross between the artist formerly known as 198 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 2: Prince Symbol and Harry Potter's Deathly Hallows. D's symbol was 199 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 2: a millage of Latin wordplay, alchemy, numerology, celestial calculations, and 200 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 2: you know, his idea of the unity of all things. 201 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: So was no doubt excited but nervous as he walked 202 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 2: alongside the Queen, no doubt remembering how he had been 203 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: arrested for doing a Queen's horoscope. Years before, Elizabeth had 204 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: taken D's astrological advice for her coronation date. Though perhaps 205 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 2: she would be open to his new book of divine 206 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 2: celestial work, or perhaps she would have him arrested on 207 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 2: the spot. He offered her the book. Elizabeth paused for 208 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: a moment, observing the symbol. D's pulse pounded. Then he 209 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 2: saw Elizabeth's eyes light up in curiosity. I will be 210 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 2: your scholar, she told D if you explain this work 211 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 2: to me. And so John D sat with the Queen 212 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: of England and described to her his special invented brand 213 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 2: of mysticism. John D and the Queen went on to 214 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: have a good relationship. She paid him occasional visits at 215 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 2: his home. She consulted with him about whether she should 216 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 2: marry one of her suitors, the Duke of Anjou. He 217 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 2: said she shouldn't, and she didn't. But the greatest cause 218 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 2: De advocated with Elizabeth, and the one that would mark 219 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 2: ultimately the end of his close relationship with her at court, 220 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 2: was a bit of political fortune telling that would ultimately 221 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 2: come to pass in a big way. It was D's 222 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 2: deep belief that Elizabeth should set out to create a 223 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 2: British empire. D wasn't just fortune telling when it came 224 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 2: to this idea of empire, he was actively promoting it. 225 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 2: As Sir Francis Drake was circumnavigating the globe, D was 226 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 2: coining the term British empire. He was hearkening back to 227 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 2: King Arthur a thousand years before, arguing that the British 228 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 2: right to an extensive empire had been established a millennium ago. 229 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: He encouraged Elizabeth to challenge the Spanish and Portuguese claims 230 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: to the New World, especially Spain's claims in North America. 231 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 2: His suggestions were even more persuasive than usual, because just 232 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 2: as D was petitioning Elizabeth on the idea of expansionism, 233 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 2: there was a strange thing going on in the world, 234 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 2: something that could seem like a message directly from the heavens, 235 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 2: something no one in all of Britain, in all of 236 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 2: Europe could possibly miss. All anyone needed to do was 237 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 2: step outside and crane their necks back as they had 238 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 2: years ago to gaze at John D's flying beetle on stage. 239 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,959 Speaker 2: But this time the magic was taking place on a 240 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 2: much bigger stage, the night sky itself, And if anyone 241 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 2: looked up to the night sky in November of fifteen 242 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 2: seventy seven, there it would be the great, glittering, terrifying thing, 243 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 2: the bright light with a luminous tail, a comet. Many 244 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 2: believed that the cosmic event signaled some vexation from God, 245 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: some calamity to befall mankind, or thought many of the 246 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 2: English to specifically befall England or the Queen. But Elizabeth 247 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 2: wasn't going to believe just anybody's fears about this strange 248 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: celestial happening. She was going to consult one man when 249 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 2: it came to the skies, John D. The comet is 250 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 2: nothing to fear, he advised her. It is not important 251 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 2: of approaching doom, but of your approaching greatness. Perhaps the 252 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 2: bright light with the tale that arcing through the sky 253 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 2: is a sign of England's destiny to be the bright 254 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: light with a long tail that is a global empire. 255 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: Of course, D's vision for English expansionism is exactly what 256 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: would happen. The English would defeat the Spanish Armada in 257 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: fifteen eighty eight, when D was not yet sixty years old. 258 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 2: But ultimately D had nothing to do with Elizabeth's actions, 259 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 2: as she set out in favor of the empire that 260 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 2: he had initially encouraged. The comet lit the sky, and 261 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 2: D's eyes were drawn heavenward. He lost interest in court. 262 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: He had begun his life with one interest, and it 263 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 2: was not the earthly realms of battle and conquest and bloodshed, 264 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 2: though his concept of empire would inevitably contain all three. 265 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 2: The comet faded from the sky, and John D left 266 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 2: his influence at court behind. From there, the rest of 267 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 2: D's life became ever more involved in the occult. He 268 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 2: worked closely with scriers, people who divined things via the 269 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 2: use of objects like crystal balls. Some or I might 270 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 2: say all of these were frauds. D's closest scrier was 271 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 2: a man who first entered his life calling himself Edward Talbot. 272 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: Talbot would later re enter D's life using his real name, 273 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: Edward Kelly, which goes to show the type of upstanding 274 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: honesty we're dealing with here. With Kelly's help, D communed 275 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 2: with the angels in a special language called Inokian. D 276 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: and Kelly conversed with some of the people you may 277 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 2: have learned about in religious schools, like Raphael and Michael 278 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 2: and Gabriel and Uriel. In his diaries, d earnestly record 279 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 2: these angelic conversations. Uriel would say things like, quote, we 280 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 2: cannot visit thee now at the twelfth hour, thou shalt 281 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 2: use us. Then at the twelfth hour Michael would say 282 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 2: something like, quote, divide the seven parts of the circle 283 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 2: everyone into seven by seven. All government is to my understanding, 284 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 2: It's not exactly a clear message. Sometimes D worried that 285 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 2: he and Kelly were communicating with devils instead of angels, 286 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 2: but for the most part D believed in Kelly. He 287 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: and Kelly even traveled to Poland and Prague together, where 288 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 2: they wound up banned by the Holy Roman Emperor Rudolph 289 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 2: the Second on suspicion of necromancy. Eventually, Kelly received a 290 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 2: message that he and D should share not only spiritual experience, 291 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: but something a little closer to home, their wives. This 292 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 2: experiment in sister wifing lasted only about one night. It 293 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 2: seemed like a horrible incident for D's wife Jane, and 294 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: in the end it sat very badly with D as well. 295 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 2: Shortly after his relationship with Kelly finally broke down. Still, 296 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 2: the timing of the wife swapping did throw the paternity 297 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 2: of one of D's sons into doubt. To Dee's credit, 298 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 2: he treated the boy as his own. He was an 299 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 2: involved father to all of his children with Jane, who 300 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 2: was his third wife. He was such an involved father 301 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: that he even asked one of his sons to be 302 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 2: a scrier for him, which ultimately wound up as a 303 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 2: failed experiment. By the final years of D's life, he 304 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 2: had outlived Jane and five of their eight children. He 305 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: had also outlived Queen Elizabeth. He died in in December 306 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 2: sixteen o eight at the age of eighty one. His 307 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 2: hidden diaries would be baked under the Sweet Shop Pies 308 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 2: fifty four years later. D may have been the inspiration 309 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 2: for a lot of canonical characters who are well known 310 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 2: to English lit majors. William Shakespeare's magician Prospero, Christopher Marlowe's 311 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 2: necromancer Faust, Edmund Spencer's meditative Old Sage in the House 312 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 2: of Temperance in The Fairy Queen. But above all, Dee's 313 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 2: legacy is as a figure who strived earnestly for divine revelation, 314 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: often in ways that seem profoundly unscientific to us today, 315 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 2: and yet even today, the great contemporary mathematician Edward Frankel 316 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 2: went on Lex Friedman's podcast this April to discuss the 317 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 2: present state of math. They talked about contemporary physicist and 318 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 2: the so far in vain quest for a grand, unifying 319 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 2: theory of everything, and they joked about when you show 320 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 2: up and meet God and there's one equation on the 321 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: board and the two of you just chuckle. Unlike D, 322 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 2: scholars today have separated math and science from religion. Yet 323 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: the image of God's chalkboard is still there, even metaphorically. 324 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 2: There's still some sense that when we try to derive 325 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 2: the mathematical and physical underpinnings of the world, we are 326 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 2: dealing with something bigger than ourselves. John D, for all 327 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 2: he foresaw and failed to foresee about the future, probably 328 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 2: would be happy about that. That's the story of Queen 329 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: Elizabeth's court astrologer John D. But stick around after a 330 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: brief sponsor break to hear a little bit more about 331 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 2: his astrological birth chart. All right, for all of you 332 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 2: astrology buffs out there, let's dig some more into D's 333 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 2: birth chart. First of all, D wrote his chart in 334 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 2: the form of a square. More like the Vedic style 335 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 2: natal chart than the typical circular charts he might see today. 336 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 2: In a box at the center of D's chart, his 337 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: careful script recorded the following his birthday fifteen twenty seven 338 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 2: July thirteenth, his birth time four hours and two minutes 339 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 2: in the afternoon, and his birthplace latitude fifty one degrees 340 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 2: and thirty two seconds north latitude. We don't know what 341 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 2: D made of his own chart. Surely he read a 342 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 2: lot of meaning into it, but none of that made 343 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 2: its way to us today, which leaves many modern biographers 344 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 2: and podcasters a lot of interpretive wiggle room. Biographer Benjamin 345 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 2: Woolley notes that the star Antaris in the planet Mars 346 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 2: were together on D's chart, which, in his interpretation, was 347 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 2: a disturbing or threatening sign. We reached out to a 348 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 2: friend who's an amateur chart reader and with no knowledge 349 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 2: of whose chart this was. She looked at the eleventh 350 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 2: House and said, ruled by Mercury and reflects the archetypes 351 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 2: of Aquarius, so futuristic ideas, thinking about innovation and the future, 352 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 2: sort of space alien stuff. But a different friend replied 353 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 2: that astrology is pseudoscience and no place to end a 354 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 2: historical podcast, although to be fair, one could argue that historically, 355 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: during this period in question, astronomy was thought of as 356 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 2: a sign. But for those who think like the second 357 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 2: Friend and to be blunt, think like me. One final, cold, 358 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 2: hard fact the astronomy in D's chart is remarkably correct. 359 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 2: Using Ptolemy's formulas, decalculated the positions of the known planet 360 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 2: at the time of his birth with extreme accuracy, within 361 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 2: a few thirtieths of a degree. The least accurate calculation 362 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 2: he made was for mercury, and even then, with the 363 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 2: science of the sixteenth century, he was only off by 364 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 2: two degrees. 365 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm and 366 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: Mild from Aaron Manky. Noble Blood is created and hosted 367 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: by me Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and researching by 368 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: Hannah Johnston, Hannahswick, Mira Hayward, Courtney Sender, and Lori Goodman. 369 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: The show is edited and produced by Noemi Griffin and 370 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: rima Il Kahali, with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive 371 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: producers Aaron Manke, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. 372 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 2: For more podcasts 373 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: From iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 374 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.