1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Mankie listener Discretion advised. 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: The year was sixteen sixty two and the owners of 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 2: a little sweet shop in London were running their fingers 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 2: over their newest acquisition, an antique cedar chest. Their fingertips 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 2: found a strange opening in the body of the chest, 7 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: a hidden drawer. Perhaps they used a knife to pull 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: at it. The drawer opened, and inside not the treasures 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: they may have dreamt of, but a beaded necklace, a cross, 10 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: and some handwritten books the sweetshops made. Wasn't especially interested 11 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 2: in whatever someone's old books might have to say. She 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 2: had work to do. But as she baked her pies 13 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 2: atop the pages she was using as parchment paper, the 14 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 2: smell of caramelized sugar spinning in the air, it was 15 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: hard to ignore an uncomfortable feeling stirring in her gut. 16 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: When she looked at the books pages. They were strange. Yes, 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 2: they contained words and dated entries, as she might have expected, 18 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: But the pages also contained diagrams and signs and symbols 19 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: that she didn't understand. Unnerving symbols, triangles inscribed inside circles, 20 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 2: intricate stars that pointed toward what might have been Greek letters, 21 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: maps of what might have looked like planets, complex mathematical 22 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: symbols that could only be witchcraft. She quieted her mind. 23 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: She lifted the surely devilish pages one by one, and 24 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: one by one let them blacken in the fire beneath 25 00:01:57,880 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: her baking pies. 26 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: But it didn't take. 27 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 2: Long before other people started noticing the strangeness of the 28 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 2: pages that hadn't been burned. One antiquarian realized that these 29 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: pages weren't just some devil's unhinged ramblings. They were the 30 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 2: lost diary of Renaissance, England's greatest conjurer, the occultist, once 31 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: employed as astronomer to Queen Elizabeth the First, a man 32 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 2: named John Dee. John Dee was one of the most 33 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 2: fascinating characters in all of Elizabethan court history. He was 34 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 2: a learned mathematician and also a magician, an astronomer, and 35 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 2: an astrologer. He was a trusted political advisor to the Queen. 36 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 2: He was a scientist, a cartographer, and even a special 37 00:02:54,600 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: effects technician. He was also an angelologist, a Christian lawmanser, 38 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: an occultist and a dabbler in alchemy. He was a 39 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: student of Hebrew and the Jewish mystical tradition of Kabbalah. 40 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 2: In addition to Christianity, he believed he spoke with angels, 41 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: both angels from the Old Testament and some of his 42 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 2: own discovery. He recorded completely credulously his angelic conversations with 43 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: the likes of the angels Raphael, Gabriel, Michael, and Uriel. 44 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: It may seem impossible to us now that someone so 45 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: invested in the occult in sorcery could have had such 46 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: a serious political career in a royal court. But it 47 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: was the fifteen hundreds, the Renaissance. The classic Renaissance man 48 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 2: did it all in part because it all was not 49 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: so neatly divided into branches as it is today. Math, 50 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 2: magic and miracle were not entirely distinct from each other. 51 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: Politics were ordained by God, after all. Queen Elizabeth herself 52 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: believed in the royal touch, the magic of her fingertips 53 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: upon her subject's next to heal their ailments. The latest 54 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: optical science was recognizing that light could bend it separated 55 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: into rainbows through lenses and mirrors and crystals, where was 56 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: the line between that science and the idea that gazing 57 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: into a crystal ball might reveal concealed dimensions of God's creation, 58 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 2: just as it revealed the different bands of color concealed 59 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 2: within light. John Dee was a man who studied the heavens, 60 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 2: and in fifteen seventy two he looked up as all 61 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 2: of England cowered at a new star that suddenly appeared 62 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: in the night sky, followed by a range comet. In 63 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: fifteen seventy seven, and under the light of that comet, 64 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 2: the Conjuror John d made a political plan for his queen. 65 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 2: He encouraged Elizabeth to follow the path laid by King 66 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: Arthur one thousand years earlier, to expand England into a 67 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 2: term he coined, a British Empire. But the Great Conjurer 68 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 2: would also do something else. Under the light of that 69 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 2: mysterious comet. He would allow a man using a false 70 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 2: name into his home, a man who would ultimately be 71 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: his downfall. This was a man who would intercede with 72 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 2: D's angelic conversations and put a wedge between d and 73 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 2: the court life he was enjoying with Queen Elizabeth. When 74 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 2: the Great Conjurer looked up into the sky and calculated 75 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 2: the positions of the planets. It seems he couldn't have 76 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 2: seen just how tenuous his own position was. I'm Danish 77 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 2: schwartz and this is noble blood. John Dee was born 78 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 2: in or around London on July thirteenth, fifteen twenty seven, 79 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 2: during the reign of King Henry the Eighth. He was 80 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: the son of a merchant who served within the king's court. 81 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 2: If you're into astrology, you're in luck. With this episode, 82 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: Dee mapped his own birth chart, as well as the 83 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: astrological positionings of many of the events that took place 84 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: throughout the sixteenth century. According to D's calculations, Jupiter and 85 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 2: the Sun were strong together in Cancer at the moment 86 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: of his birth. I'm sure some of you listeners can 87 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: interpret those signs better than I can. Biographer Benjamin Woolley 88 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 2: notes that the moon and the Sun were in opposition 89 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 2: in d'cas charts, and even I could tell you that symbolically, 90 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 2: at least in literary terms. That suggests some internal conflict 91 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: that might have been brewing inside him. And so we 92 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 2: begin today's episode appropriately in astrology, a field with plenty 93 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: of adherents still today a realm that draws on astronomical 94 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 2: science and then, at least in my estimation, heads into 95 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: the direction of belief. By fifteen forty seven, John d 96 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: was nineteen and England was transitioning from the reign of 97 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: King Henry the Eighth to that of his short lived 98 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: only son, King Edward. At that time John Dee was 99 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 2: in the midst of some personal drama of his own, 100 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 2: and I mean drama in the quite literal sense. He 101 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 2: was a student at Trinity College, Cambridge, and he was 102 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 2: putting on a play. It was a play called Peace 103 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 2: by an ancient Greek playwright, Aristophanes, and it called for 104 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 2: a dung beetle to fly with an actor on its back. 105 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 2: This was the fifteen hundreds. D did not have the 106 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 2: benefits of electricity in staging his play, let alone projectors, 107 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: lasers or drones. And yet the actor on stage instructed 108 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: his scare a beetle to lift him into the sky, 109 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: and it did. There was a gasp in the audience 110 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 2: next craned backward to watch in awe. How was it 111 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:46,119 Speaker 2: possible the flying beetle on stage was like a miracle, 112 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 2: or else some thought like magic or as some whispered 113 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 2: as the play went on, it was witchcraft. D must 114 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 2: have dealt with the devil. Only a few people in 115 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: the crowd recognized that the beatle must have been some 116 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: application of mathematics. D probably used some combination of Pulley's mirrors, springs, 117 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: and pressurized air or gas to create the illusion of 118 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 2: a flying bug. But this was a time when mathematics 119 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: as a discipline were viewed as essentially indistinguishable from conjuring. 120 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 2: D was cast under suspicion. In another life, we can 121 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 2: imagine that D might have gone on to become the 122 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 2: best practical effects guy of the Elizabethan age. We can 123 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 2: easily imagine a D who went on to be an 124 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 2: artist of the theater what D himself called art mathematical. 125 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 2: Of course, his beatle was considered wizardly. After all, what 126 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: is special effects technology today but something we call movie magic. 127 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: But aside from a brief stint when he was a student, 128 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 2: D wasn't really interested in the theater. For D, the 129 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 2: mathematical was only in service of his true aim, which 130 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: was the revelation of some universal godly truth through the 131 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 2: use of sciences that shaded without distinction in his mind 132 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:31,119 Speaker 2: into magic, and eight years later that lack of distinction 133 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 2: between the occult and the approved came home to D 134 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: in the form of a court order. It was fifteen 135 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: fifty five and d was under arrest. This was during 136 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 2: Queen Mary's reign. D stood accused of witchcraft, a serious 137 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 2: charge under the new Catholic rule, which was definitely not 138 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: opposed to burning heretics at the stake. D was also 139 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 2: official accused of two other crimes, calculating and conjuring. Again, 140 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 2: in that language, you can see the closeness of math 141 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 2: and magic to this day. The word we use for 142 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 2: solving a math problem calculating, it means something very different 143 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 2: when applied to a person. A calculating person implies that 144 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: they're sly bad scheming. And John Dee stood accused of 145 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 2: doing the very thing that so many astrologically inclined bridesmaids 146 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 2: do for their friends today. That is, mapping the horoscopes 147 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 2: of Mary and her husband Philip to see if they 148 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 2: made a good match. Kind of touchingly, de found in 149 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: favor of Mary and Philip's union. It's pretty sweet, actually, 150 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 2: His calculations suggested that their marriage took place under an 151 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: auspicious rising sign for a new couple. But of course 152 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 2: flick Queen Mary, defensive about an unpopular marriage, didn't exactly 153 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: take the zodiac as a fun activity for a bridal shower. Luckily, 154 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 2: Forde he escaped the fate of the heretics and outlived Mary, 155 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: who died in fifteen fifty seven. That was when Mary's 156 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: younger Protestant half sister, Elizabeth, came to the throne. Twenty 157 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 2: five year old Elizabeth was the daughter of King Henry 158 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 2: the Eighth and the beheaded Anne Boleyn. She was the 159 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 2: second woman ever to ascend to a throne that had 160 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 2: been until recently only occupied by men, and she needed 161 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 2: to secure her reign. She appointed her favorite Robert Dudley 162 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 2: to advise her, and Dudley, needing the good graces of 163 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: not only the earthly but heavenly realms as well as 164 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 2: he put together Elizabeth's coronation, decided that he needed the 165 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 2: one man in England who could read the planets better 166 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 2: than anyone else. Robert Dudley called upon John d. When 167 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: John d agreed to choose the date for Queen Elizabeth's coronation, 168 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 2: it was the beginning of a major life change for him. 169 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: After being arrested under Queen Mary's reign. Now he was 170 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 2: not only set free, but he was welcomed into Elizabeth's court. 171 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: As his first order of business, D consulted the stars. 172 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: He measured and mapped the angles between the planets, the 173 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: positions of major constellations, the twelve astrological houses, and rising signs. 174 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 2: At last, he decided that January fifteenth, fifteen fifty nine 175 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 2: would be the most Heavens approved date for the beginning 176 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 2: of the Elizabethan Age. Obviously, Mars was in Scorpio that day. 177 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: After the coronation, history loses track of D for about 178 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 2: five years. I like to imagine the stage magician's sleight 179 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 2: of hand. Here D ducking into a cleverly designed set 180 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 2: piece through which the audience of history can't see him. 181 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 2: But he was somewhere all along, studying the Jewish mystical 182 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 2: tradition of Kabbalah. He was seeking the secret names of God, 183 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,359 Speaker 2: learning the Hebrew language and its mystical numerology, the alphabet 184 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: arranged around the first letter olive, middle mem, last tav, 185 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: spelling out emmett, the Hebrew word for truth. He was 186 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 2: seeking divine truth in increasingly more mystical modes, but D 187 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 2: was far from done with politics. Once history catches up 188 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 2: with him again, he steps out from behind the curtain. 189 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 2: On June fourteenth, fifteen sixty four, when he and Queen 190 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 2: Elizabeth are walking together at Greenwich Palace on the south 191 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 2: bank of the River Thames. D was holding something in 192 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: his hands, a slim book, and he was brimming with 193 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 2: excitement and perhaps a little bit of fear. He was 194 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 2: about to show the Queen the work of his soul, 195 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: his Monas Hieroglyphica. Listener, allow me to tell you the 196 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: monas is truly wild. It's a whole book dedicated to 197 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 2: explaining a mystical symbol of divine revelation that D invented himself. 198 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: It looks kind of like a cross between the artist 199 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 2: formerly known as Prince Symbol and Harry Potter's Deathly Hallows. 200 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: D's symbol was a millage of Latin wordplay, alchemy, numerology, 201 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 2: celestial calculations, and you know, his idea of the unity 202 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 2: of all things. So was no doubt excited but nervous 203 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: as he walked alongside the Queen, no doubt remembering how 204 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 2: he had been arrested for doing a Queen's horoscope. Years before, 205 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 2: Elizabeth had taken D's astrological advice for her coronation date. 206 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: Though perhaps she would be open to his new book 207 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 2: of divine celestial work, or perhaps she would have him 208 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 2: arrested on the spot. He offered her the book. Elizabeth 209 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 2: paused for a moment, observing the symbol. D's pulse pounded. 210 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 2: Then he saw Elizabeth's eyes light up in curiosity. I 211 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 2: will be your scholar, she told D if you explain 212 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 2: this work to me. And so John D sat with 213 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 2: the Queen of England and described to her his special 214 00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: invented brand of mysticism. John D and the Queen went 215 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 2: on to have a good relationship. She paid him occasional 216 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 2: visits at his home. She consulted with him about whether 217 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 2: she should marry one of her suitors, the Duke of Anjou. 218 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: He said she shouldn't, and she didn't. But the greatest 219 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 2: cause De advocated with Elizabeth, and the one that would 220 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 2: mark ultimately the end of his close relationship with her 221 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 2: at court, was a bit of political fortune telling that 222 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 2: would ultimately come to pass in a big way. It 223 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 2: was D's deep belief that Elizabeth should set out to 224 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 2: create a British empire. D wasn't just fortune telling when 225 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 2: it came to this idea of empire, he was actively 226 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 2: promoting it. As Sir Francis Drake was circumnavigating the globe, 227 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 2: D was coining the term British empire. He was hearkening 228 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 2: back to King Arthur a thousand years before, arguing that 229 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 2: the British right to an extensive empire had been established 230 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 2: a millennium ago. He encouraged Elizabeth to challenge the Spanish 231 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 2: and Portuguese claims to the New World, especially Spain's claims 232 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 2: in North America. His suggestions were even more persuasive than usual, 233 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 2: because just as D was petitioning Elizabeth on the idea 234 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: of expansionism, there was a strange thing going on in 235 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 2: the world, something that could seem like a message directly 236 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 2: from the heavens, something no one in all of Britain, 237 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 2: in all of Europe could possibly miss. All anyone needed 238 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 2: to do was step outside and crane their necks back 239 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 2: as they had years ago to gaze at John D's 240 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 2: flying beetle on stage. But this time the magic was 241 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 2: taking place on a much bigger stage, the night sky itself, 242 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: And if anyone looked up to the night sky in 243 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 2: November of fifteen seventy seven, there it would be the great, glittering, 244 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 2: terrifying thing, the bright light with a luminous tail, a comet. 245 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 2: Many believed that the cosmic event signaled some vexation from God, 246 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: some calamity to befall mankind, or thought many of the 247 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 2: English to specifically befall England or the Queen. But Elizabeth 248 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 2: wasn't going to believe just anybody's fears about this strange 249 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: celestial happening. She was going to consult one man when 250 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 2: it came to the skies, John D. The comet is 251 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 2: nothing to fear, he advised her. It is not important 252 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 2: of approaching doom, but of your approaching greatness. Perhaps the 253 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 2: bright light with the tale that arcing through the sky 254 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 2: is a a sign of England's destiny to be the 255 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: bright light with a long tail that is a global empire. 256 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: Of course, D's vision for English expansionism is exactly what 257 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: would happen. The English would defeat the Spanish Armada in 258 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: fifteen eighty eight, when D was not yet sixty years old. 259 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 2: But ultimately D had nothing to do with Elizabeth's actions, 260 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 2: as she set out in favor of the empire that 261 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 2: he had initially encouraged. The comet lit the sky, and 262 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 2: D's eyes were drawn heavenward. He lost interest in court. 263 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: He had begun his life with one interest, and it 264 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 2: was not the earthly realms of battle and conquest and bloodshed, 265 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 2: though his concept of empire would inevitably contain all three. 266 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 2: The comet faded from the sky, and John D left 267 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 2: his influence at court behind. From there, the rest of 268 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 2: D's life became ever more involved in the occult. He 269 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 2: worked closely with scriers, people who divined things via the 270 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 2: use of objects like crystal balls. Some or I might 271 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 2: say all of these were frauds. D's closest scrier was 272 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 2: a man who first entered his life calling himself Edward Talbot. 273 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: Talbot would later re enter D's life using his real name, 274 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: Edward Kelly, which goes to show the type of upstanding 275 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: honesty we're dealing with here. With Kelly's help, D communed 276 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 2: with the angels in a special language called Inokian. D 277 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: and Kelly conversed with some of the people you may 278 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 2: have learned about in religious schools, like Raphael and Michael 279 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 2: and Gabriel and Uriel. In his diaries, d earnestly record 280 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 2: these angelic conversations. Uriel would say things like, quote, we 281 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 2: cannot visit thee now at the twelfth hour, thou shalt 282 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 2: use us. Then at the twelfth hour Michael would say 283 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 2: something like, quote, divide the seven parts of the circle 284 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 2: everyone into seven by seven. All government is to my understanding, 285 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 2: It's not exactly a clear message. Sometimes D worried that 286 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 2: he and Kelly were communicating with devils instead of angels, 287 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 2: but for the most part D believed in Kelly. He 288 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 2: and Kelly even traveled to Poland and Prague together, where 289 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 2: they wound up banned by the Holy Roman Emperor Rudolph 290 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 2: the Second on suspicion of necromancy. Eventually, Kelly received a 291 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 2: message that he and D should share not only spiritual experience, 292 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: but something a little closer to home, their wives. This 293 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 2: experiment in sister wifing lasted only about one night. It 294 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 2: seemed like a horrible incident for D's wife Jane, and 295 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: in the end it sat very badly with D as well. 296 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 2: Shortly after his relationship with Kelly finally broke down. Still, 297 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 2: the timing of the wife swapping did throw the paternity 298 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 2: of one of D's sons into doubt. To Dee's credit, 299 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 2: he treated the boy as his own. He was an 300 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 2: involved father to all of his children with Jane, who 301 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 2: was his third wife. He was such an involved father 302 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: that he even asked one of his sons to be 303 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 2: a scrier for him, which ultimately wound up as a 304 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 2: failed experiment. By the final years of D's life, he 305 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 2: had outlived Jane and five of their eight children. He 306 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: had also outlived Queen Elizabeth. He died in in December 307 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 2: sixteen o eight at the age of eighty one. His 308 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 2: hidden diaries would be baked under the Sweet Shop Pies 309 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 2: fifty four years later. D may have been the inspiration 310 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 2: for a lot of canonical characters who are well known 311 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 2: to English lit majors. William Shakespeare's magician Prospero, Christopher Marlowe's 312 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 2: necromancer Faust, Edmund Spencer's meditative Old Sage in the House 313 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 2: of Temperance in The Fairy Queen. But above all, Dee's 314 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 2: legacy is as a figure who strived earnestly for divine revelation, 315 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: often in ways that seem profoundly unscientific to us today, 316 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 2: and yet even today, the great contemporary mathematician Edward Frankel 317 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 2: went on Lex Friedman's podcast this April to discuss the 318 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 2: present state of math. They talked about contemporary physicist and 319 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 2: the so far in vain quest for a grand, unifying 320 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 2: theory of everything, and they joked about when you show 321 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 2: up and meet God and there's one equation on the 322 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: board and the two of you just chuckle. Unlike D, 323 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 2: scholars today have separated math and science from religion. Yet 324 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: the image of God's chalkboard is still there, even metaphorically. 325 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 2: There's still some sense that when we try to derive 326 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 2: the mathematical and physical underpinnings of the world, we are 327 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 2: dealing with something bigger than ourselves. John D, for all 328 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 2: he foresaw and failed to foresee about the future, probably 329 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 2: would be happy about that. That's the story of Queen 330 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: Elizabeth's court astrologer John D. But stick around after a 331 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: brief sponsor break to hear a little bit more about 332 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 2: his astrological birth chart. All right, for all of you 333 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 2: astrology buffs out there, let's dig some more into D's 334 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 2: birth chart. First of all, D wrote his chart in 335 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 2: the form of a square. More like the Vedic style 336 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 2: natal chart than the typical circular charts he might see today. 337 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 2: In a box at the center of D's chart, his 338 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: careful script recorded the following his birthday fifteen twenty seven 339 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 2: July thirteenth, his birth time four hours and two minutes 340 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 2: in the afternoon, and his birthplace latitude fifty one degrees 341 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 2: and thirty two seconds north latitude. We don't know what 342 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 2: D made of his own chart. Surely he read a 343 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 2: lot of meaning into it, but none of that made 344 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 2: its way to us today, which leaves many modern biographers 345 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 2: and podcasters a lot of interpretive wiggle room. Biographer Benjamin 346 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 2: Woolley notes that the star Antaris in the planet Mars 347 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 2: were together on D's chart, which, in his interpretation, was 348 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 2: a disturbing or threatening sign. We reached out to a 349 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 2: friend who's an amateur chart reader and with no knowledge 350 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 2: of whose chart this was. She looked at the eleventh 351 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 2: House and said, ruled by Mercury and reflects the archetypes 352 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 2: of Aquarius, so futuristic ideas, thinking about innovation and the future, 353 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 2: sort of space alien stuff. But a different friend replied 354 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 2: that astrology is pseudoscience and no place to end a 355 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 2: historical podcast, although to be fair, one could argue that historically, 356 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: during this period in question, astronomy was thought of as 357 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 2: a sign. But for those who think like the second 358 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 2: Friend and to be blunt, think like me. One final, cold, 359 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 2: hard fact the astronomy in D's chart is remarkably correct. 360 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 2: Using Ptolemy's formulas, decalculated the positions of the known planets 361 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 2: at the time of his birth with extreme accuracy, within 362 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 2: a few thirtieths of a degree. The least accurate calculation 363 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 2: he made was for mercury, and even then, with the 364 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 2: science of the sixteenth century, he was only off by 365 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 2: two degrees. 366 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and 367 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: Mild from Aaron Manky. Noble Blood is created and hosted 368 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: by me Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and researching by 369 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: Hannah Johnston, Hannahswick, Mira Hayward, Courtney Sender, and Lori Goodman. 370 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: The show is edited and produced by Noemi Griffin and 371 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: rima Il Kahali, with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive 372 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: producers Aaron Manke, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. 373 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 2: For more podcasts 374 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: From iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 375 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.