1 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:48,340 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: the show, fellow ridiculous historians. Thank you, as always, so 3 00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:55,940 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer, Mr. 4 00:00:55,980 --> 00:00:56,830 Speaker 1: Max Williams. 5 00:00:57,570 --> 00:00:58,150 Speaker 2: Locked in. 6 00:00:58,890 --> 00:00:59,890 Speaker 1: Locked in. Sitting down. 7 00:00:59,950 --> 00:01:01,710 Speaker 2: Locked in. Sitting down. 8 00:01:04,330 --> 00:01:05,950 Speaker 1: Noel, that's Noel Brown. 9 00:01:05,990 --> 00:01:09,390 Speaker 2: I've been bullied. A stand-up guy. There we go. 10 00:01:10,580 --> 00:01:16,940 Speaker 1: Noel, you know... I've been trying to convince a number 11 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,810 Speaker 1: of our colleagues to do improv for a few years now. 12 00:01:20,890 --> 00:01:26,390 Speaker 1: And I think you raised an excellent point not too 13 00:01:26,450 --> 00:01:30,350 Speaker 1: long ago where you said, Ben, don't we already kind 14 00:01:30,430 --> 00:01:31,610 Speaker 1: of do improv? 15 00:01:31,650 --> 00:01:33,390 Speaker 2: I was just about to say I improv like forever. 16 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,450 Speaker 2: seven times a week, baby. 17 00:01:37,010 --> 00:01:42,510 Speaker 1: Yes, yes. And we are also, we are also people 18 00:01:42,730 --> 00:01:48,220 Speaker 1: of varied interest. We do a lot of stuff together 19 00:01:48,260 --> 00:01:51,940 Speaker 1: and apart outside of this show, but neither of us 20 00:01:52,820 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: Or Martha Gellhorn? 21 00:01:54,180 --> 00:01:57,950 Speaker 2: No, none of us have been decorated journalists or war 22 00:01:58,030 --> 00:02:01,950 Speaker 2: correspondents with careers spanning more than 60 years. We're a 23 00:02:02,270 --> 00:02:04,350 Speaker 2: bit relative babies compared to that. I think we've been 24 00:02:04,370 --> 00:02:08,010 Speaker 2: in this podcast game for maybe 13. We're getting there. 25 00:02:08,370 --> 00:02:13,420 Speaker 2: But still, no, not only Martha Gellhorn was Martha Gellhorn, 26 00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 2: a total badass, the only woman to report from the 27 00:02:16,300 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 2: ground during D-Day after sneaking onto a hospital boat in 28 00:02:20,860 --> 00:02:23,970 Speaker 2: order to do that thing. Yeah, yeah. 29 00:02:24,169 --> 00:02:28,690 Speaker 1: And this is weird. We can't thank our research associate 30 00:02:28,850 --> 00:02:33,490 Speaker 1: Ames enough for this one. This is weird that Martha Gellhorn, 31 00:02:33,650 --> 00:02:36,850 Speaker 1: whom we're going to learn a lot about today, is 32 00:02:37,950 --> 00:02:44,190 Speaker 1: only broadly known for a brief marriage to a writer 33 00:02:44,460 --> 00:02:49,060 Speaker 1: that I love and think is woefully overrated. 34 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 2: Well, and also he was a bit of a notorious lech. 35 00:02:52,540 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: And alcoholic, but a fine writer indeed, but perhaps overrated, Mr. 36 00:02:57,620 --> 00:03:02,109 Speaker 2: Ernest Hemingway. And he was also, to the point about 37 00:03:02,150 --> 00:03:04,110 Speaker 2: being a lech and maybe not the best of dudes, 38 00:03:04,770 --> 00:03:09,150 Speaker 2: he used his considerable influence in the literary world and 39 00:03:09,190 --> 00:03:12,220 Speaker 2: circles of power to keep Martha down. 40 00:03:12,980 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Folks, spoiler, Ernest is kind of the bad guy. 41 00:03:18,380 --> 00:03:31,010 Speaker 1: In this story. So let's learn about Martha Gellhorn. All right. 42 00:03:31,130 --> 00:03:37,630 Speaker 1: So a lot of people arrive into activism or politics 43 00:03:37,990 --> 00:03:41,470 Speaker 1: when they get older, when they grow up. But as 44 00:03:41,550 --> 00:03:45,470 Speaker 1: we learned here, Martha was sort of born into it. 45 00:03:46,110 --> 00:03:49,990 Speaker 2: She was nurtured in the bosom of politics from a 46 00:03:50,050 --> 00:03:54,620 Speaker 2: very young age. Her mother, Edna Fiscal Gellhorn, was a 47 00:03:55,220 --> 00:03:59,700 Speaker 2: big deal in the world of suffragists. She helped found 48 00:03:59,780 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: the League of Women Voters, very important organization, and often 49 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,550 Speaker 2: brought her daughter along to suffragist events, which included a 50 00:04:08,250 --> 00:04:10,890 Speaker 2: protest for women's rights called the Golden Lane. 51 00:04:11,750 --> 00:04:16,100 Speaker 1: Cool, cool stuff, right? And so young Martha is seven 52 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: years old when she is positioned in front of a 53 00:04:19,500 --> 00:04:22,750 Speaker 1: line of women who are wearing yellow sashes, to your 54 00:04:22,790 --> 00:04:27,030 Speaker 1: point about the Golden Lane, and carrying yellow parasols outside 55 00:04:27,250 --> 00:04:32,330 Speaker 1: of the Democratic National Convention in 1916 in St. Louis. 56 00:04:32,870 --> 00:04:38,730 Speaker 2: Yep. And Washington University has a fantastic page on their 57 00:04:38,790 --> 00:04:42,430 Speaker 2: site about this exact era where It had this to say, 58 00:04:42,510 --> 00:04:46,690 Speaker 2: women representing states which had women's suffrage were draped in white. 59 00:04:47,130 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 2: Those from states with partial suffrage were in gray. And 60 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: those from states with no votes for women, including Missouri, 61 00:04:53,620 --> 00:04:58,100 Speaker 2: were draped in black. At the top was Mrs. David O'Neill, 62 00:04:59,220 --> 00:05:03,390 Speaker 2: resplendent as Miss Liberty. In the front row, you would 63 00:05:03,450 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: see two young girls, Mary Taussig and Martha Gellhorn. And 64 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 2: WUSTL.edu very accurately characterizes them as representing future voters. 65 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,310 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this experience of having a mom who is 66 00:05:18,490 --> 00:05:24,570 Speaker 1: plugged in to social equality and to activism pervades her 67 00:05:24,630 --> 00:05:29,490 Speaker 1: daughter Martha's writing later in life. And Edna is a 68 00:05:29,550 --> 00:05:34,610 Speaker 1: highly educated person. She attended Bryn Mawr College, and then 69 00:05:34,810 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: later her daughter Martha graduated. also goes to the same institution. 70 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:47,050 Speaker 1: But guys, Martha leaves after her first year. She says, 71 00:05:47,790 --> 00:05:51,430 Speaker 1: the ivory towers of academia may not be for me. 72 00:05:51,810 --> 00:05:53,310 Speaker 1: I want to be a journalist. 73 00:05:53,610 --> 00:05:59,050 Speaker 2: Yeah. Not only a journalist, the most treacherous of journalistic pursuits, 74 00:05:59,310 --> 00:06:03,010 Speaker 2: a war correspondent. She was feeling the pull of that career, 75 00:06:03,690 --> 00:06:06,590 Speaker 2: and she published early work in The New Republic, which 76 00:06:06,630 --> 00:06:10,030 Speaker 2: is a magazine that was– I didn't realize this– conceived 77 00:06:10,089 --> 00:06:14,390 Speaker 2: by Theodore Roosevelt in his living room and was known for– 78 00:06:14,410 --> 00:06:17,110 Speaker 2: and continues to be known to this day for its 79 00:06:17,150 --> 00:06:23,610 Speaker 2: intellectual rigor and left-leaning political views. Yep. Ben did the 80 00:06:23,650 --> 00:06:26,570 Speaker 2: whoosh-whoosh quote fingers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 81 00:06:26,710 --> 00:06:27,529 Speaker 1: Left-leaning. 82 00:06:27,770 --> 00:06:28,510 Speaker 2: All right. Fine. 83 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:30,950 Speaker 1: It was at the time, as you said, Noel, a 84 00:06:31,050 --> 00:06:35,510 Speaker 1: publication that was the new shiny thing, right? 85 00:06:35,529 --> 00:06:38,310 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it served as like an incubator for young 86 00:06:38,350 --> 00:06:42,090 Speaker 2: writers coming up, as well as editors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 87 00:06:42,110 --> 00:06:45,550 Speaker 1: It gave a lot of people a shot. And this 88 00:06:45,830 --> 00:06:48,990 Speaker 1: is the era of what we call the lost generation. 89 00:06:49,130 --> 00:06:54,270 Speaker 1: Martha Gellhorn is one of those creative forces born and 90 00:06:54,360 --> 00:07:01,750 Speaker 1: living during that time. She moves to Paris. From earlier, Paris, France. 91 00:07:02,850 --> 00:07:03,350 Speaker 2: Excuse me. 92 00:07:04,029 --> 00:07:08,950 Speaker 1: We in 1930, she goes there. And like you said, 93 00:07:09,070 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: she's she's chasing the smoke, dude. She's becoming a war correspondent. 94 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: She gets a job at a place called United Press. 95 00:07:18,740 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: But pretty soon after she gets hired, she gets fired. 96 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, for the abominable crime of reporting sexual harassment by 97 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,660 Speaker 2: a male colleague. Yeah, yeah. 98 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,180 Speaker 1: And she takes jobs writing for different newspapers. She travels 99 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:42,300 Speaker 1: across Europe. She covers fashion for Vogue magazine. You know, 100 00:07:42,380 --> 00:07:45,020 Speaker 1: when you're a freelance writer, you get the gigs while 101 00:07:45,060 --> 00:07:50,550 Speaker 1: you can. But then as now, she is aware of 102 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:56,230 Speaker 1: a fell wind. Something is up. In Europe, fascism is 103 00:07:56,330 --> 00:07:57,370 Speaker 1: rising around her. 104 00:07:57,390 --> 00:08:00,850 Speaker 2: Yep, from fashion to fascism. It was coming up in Germany, 105 00:08:01,070 --> 00:08:05,700 Speaker 2: and as a pacifist and left person of, once again, whoosh, whoosh, 106 00:08:05,780 --> 00:08:09,660 Speaker 2: quotation fingers, left-leaning political views, she was concerned for the 107 00:08:09,700 --> 00:08:13,780 Speaker 2: state of her own country and decided to leave Europe 108 00:08:14,420 --> 00:08:18,410 Speaker 2: and lend her services to the United States. 109 00:08:18,990 --> 00:08:21,929 Speaker 1: Yeah, or to just get out while you can. Jordan 110 00:08:21,990 --> 00:08:22,650 Speaker 1: Peele was right. 111 00:08:23,070 --> 00:08:26,130 Speaker 2: No, sometimes you just, yeah, you got to get out. 112 00:08:26,230 --> 00:08:28,110 Speaker 2: In 1934, she moved back to the U.S. and took 113 00:08:28,150 --> 00:08:30,750 Speaker 2: a job at the Federal Emergency Relief Administration as a 114 00:08:30,810 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 2: field investigator. So she really did put her money where 115 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 2: her mouth was. Like she was trying to, you know, 116 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:35,620 Speaker 2: help on the ground. 117 00:08:36,020 --> 00:08:40,620 Speaker 1: Yeah, a correspondent to another type of war. This one economic, right? 118 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: She is someone who does the grunt work. She is 119 00:08:45,820 --> 00:08:50,689 Speaker 1: in the trenches interviewing families. She is reporting on horrendous, 120 00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:55,260 Speaker 1: horrific working conditions. in the worst parts of the country, 121 00:08:55,700 --> 00:08:59,500 Speaker 1: and she is not shy about speaking up, or as 122 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,939 Speaker 1: we say it today, speaking from her chest to the 123 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: people in power. She says, I'm interviewing five families a day. 124 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:12,530 Speaker 1: I'm growing ever more troubled about the widespread destitution. She 125 00:09:12,650 --> 00:09:18,630 Speaker 1: calls on Roosevelt himself to do something about things like 126 00:09:18,750 --> 00:09:23,170 Speaker 1: a lack of birth control and, of course... The syphilis epidemic. 127 00:09:23,290 --> 00:09:24,630 Speaker 2: Yeesh. Yeah, indeed. 128 00:09:24,650 --> 00:09:26,990 Speaker 1: I'm so happy we avoided that one. 129 00:09:27,070 --> 00:09:29,850 Speaker 2: We did. We did dodge a bullet there, Ben. Her 130 00:09:30,050 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 2: vocal criticism of all of this caught the eye of 131 00:09:32,670 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 2: another outspoken lady and the wife of the president, Eleanor Roosevelt. 132 00:09:40,460 --> 00:09:45,220 Speaker 2: They became friends and actually eventually became roommates. Yeah. Yep. 133 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:51,130 Speaker 1: And Gellhorn was fired from her field investigator position in 134 00:09:51,510 --> 00:09:55,490 Speaker 1: for being, and this is a quote, a dangerous communist. 135 00:09:56,410 --> 00:10:00,220 Speaker 1: And that's when she ended up living at the White 136 00:10:00,260 --> 00:10:02,140 Speaker 1: House with Eleanor Roosevelt. 137 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, roommates. 138 00:10:04,100 --> 00:10:06,190 Speaker 1: I know, man. You said it. 139 00:10:06,260 --> 00:10:11,410 Speaker 2: Yeah, a couple. For sure. There, Gellhorn began to help 140 00:10:12,510 --> 00:10:16,090 Speaker 2: Roosevelt with her column, The Women's Home Companion. 141 00:10:16,690 --> 00:10:24,260 Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. And During this time, Gellhorn is working on the 142 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:29,860 Speaker 1: ideas of her first book. This will ultimately be published 143 00:10:30,059 --> 00:10:34,070 Speaker 1: as The Trouble I've Seen, Four Stories from the Great Depression, 144 00:10:34,390 --> 00:10:38,730 Speaker 1: and it is a harrowing read. It's a collection of 145 00:10:39,550 --> 00:10:46,250 Speaker 1: Martha Gellhorn's firsthand experiences in these just benighted of the 146 00:10:46,350 --> 00:10:47,740 Speaker 1: United States, right? 147 00:10:47,860 --> 00:10:56,030 Speaker 2: Right. She captured the emotional, financial, and spiritual devastation. that 148 00:10:56,250 --> 00:10:59,010 Speaker 2: was brought on by the collapse of the American economic 149 00:10:59,050 --> 00:11:01,850 Speaker 2: system in the 1930s. That is a quote from the 150 00:11:01,929 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 2: Literary Lady's Guide. Many versions of her book featured a 151 00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: very well-known photo from the Great Depression, Migrant Mother, by 152 00:11:10,580 --> 00:11:15,890 Speaker 2: photographer Dorothea Lange, who Gellhorn worked with closely while documenting 153 00:11:16,330 --> 00:11:19,309 Speaker 2: all of the devastation that was plaguing America. 154 00:11:19,730 --> 00:11:22,850 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was a book that was painful to write, 155 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,820 Speaker 1: painful to read, but needed to be created. So the 156 00:11:27,900 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 1: world responded. The United States responded. The book is a 157 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,460 Speaker 1: huge success. And of course, a lot of Europeans are 158 00:11:34,580 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: reading it as well. It's in the wake of this 159 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:45,530 Speaker 1: book's splash debut that Martha meets a man she will 160 00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:49,730 Speaker 1: marry for a time. His name is Ernest Hemingway. And again, 161 00:11:49,790 --> 00:11:51,490 Speaker 1: I think he's an overrated writer. 162 00:11:58,370 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 2: Ernest Hemingway was in Key West, Florida, which I think 163 00:12:02,130 --> 00:12:04,359 Speaker 2: was a place he was quite fond of where he 164 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,660 Speaker 2: enjoyed drinking his daiquiris. And that is where they met 165 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,470 Speaker 2: on a Christmas trip. So the couple immediately kind of 166 00:12:12,490 --> 00:12:15,370 Speaker 2: hit it off and traveled together to Spain where Gellhorn 167 00:12:15,470 --> 00:12:18,510 Speaker 2: had a job covering the Spanish Civil War for a 168 00:12:18,530 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 2: publication called Collier's Weekly. Then they started traveling together and 169 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 2: lived all over the place, Barcelona, Germany, Czechoslovakia. In 1940, 170 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:32,980 Speaker 2: they got married. She was, at the time, his third wife. Yeah, yeah. 171 00:12:33,340 --> 00:12:36,709 Speaker 1: And they had, you know, that new car smell for 172 00:12:36,750 --> 00:12:40,589 Speaker 1: a moment, but their honeymoon didn't last long. They had 173 00:12:40,620 --> 00:12:46,650 Speaker 1: this on-again, off-again living situation because Martha Gilhorn would not 174 00:12:46,870 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: sacrifice her own career, right? To just follow some guy around. 175 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,420 Speaker 1: So she is continuing to work as a war correspondent. 176 00:12:56,990 --> 00:13:01,070 Speaker 1: And our buddy Ernest didn't like it. He would he 177 00:13:01,110 --> 00:13:05,630 Speaker 1: would write to her really just like pillish things. 178 00:13:05,790 --> 00:13:08,819 Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't good. Are you a war correspondent, he asked, 179 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: or wife in my bed? I mean, the in my 180 00:13:11,980 --> 00:13:14,060 Speaker 2: bed thing is just like adding insult to injury. You know, 181 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 2: it's like that's all she's good for is being his 182 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 2: like snuggle buddy or, you know, sex object. 183 00:13:19,940 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: And if you're married, isn't it our bed? 184 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:22,699 Speaker 2: Exactly. 185 00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:25,090 Speaker 1: Yeah. 186 00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:29,150 Speaker 2: Never seen a shorter sentence that expresses one's misogyny quite 187 00:13:29,210 --> 00:13:35,350 Speaker 2: so clearly. Bernice Kurt, author of The Hemingway Women, had 188 00:13:35,390 --> 00:13:38,190 Speaker 2: this to say about the relationship. Hemingway would never sustain 189 00:13:38,210 --> 00:13:41,110 Speaker 2: a long-lived, wholly satisfying relationship with any one of his 190 00:13:41,250 --> 00:13:44,740 Speaker 2: four wives. Married domesticity may have seemed to him the 191 00:13:44,750 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 2: desirable culmination of romantic love, but sooner or later, he 192 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:52,599 Speaker 2: became bored and restless, critical, and bullying. Boo. 193 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:59,210 Speaker 1: And this is very astute from Bernice Kurt, because that 194 00:13:59,510 --> 00:14:05,150 Speaker 1: is exactly what happened in Martha and Ernest's marriage during 195 00:14:05,190 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 1: World War II. Gellhorn is a journalist. She's working with 196 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: Collier's at the moment. And she says, look, I will 197 00:14:13,660 --> 00:14:18,590 Speaker 1: go on the ground in France. I will report from 198 00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:22,850 Speaker 1: the front lines to you, Collier's. But, Noel, as we learned, 199 00:14:22,930 --> 00:14:25,330 Speaker 1: there were a couple of problems. 200 00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:27,350 Speaker 2: With this plan. A couple of wrinkles. The military at 201 00:14:27,370 --> 00:14:31,650 Speaker 2: the time did not allow women journalists to cover the 202 00:14:31,770 --> 00:14:38,570 Speaker 2: Allied landings. And Hemingway... essentially, like, kind of scooped her 203 00:14:38,650 --> 00:14:41,930 Speaker 2: on the assignment, stole it right out from under her, 204 00:14:42,050 --> 00:14:47,230 Speaker 2: and then tried to block her from traveling at all. Yeah. 205 00:14:47,850 --> 00:14:51,860 Speaker 1: It's a real jerk move. Even to a, like, to 206 00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: a stranger, it's a jerk move to your spouse. 207 00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:57,460 Speaker 2: Even for a seasoned jerk. This is, like, extra jerky. 208 00:14:58,380 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 2: So she was not dissuaded, however, and she boarded a 209 00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:06,660 Speaker 2: Norwegian freighter that was carrying dynamite? For two weeks to 210 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 2: get that? That's bold. Yes. 211 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,900 Speaker 1: Yes, it is. We also know that on June 7th, 212 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:21,020 Speaker 1: which is the day after D-Day, Martha Gellhorn and Ernest 213 00:15:21,070 --> 00:15:26,610 Speaker 1: Hemingway are boarding separate ships heading to Omaha Beach. Martha 214 00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:31,229 Speaker 1: is not able to just walk aboard like her estranged husband. 215 00:15:31,890 --> 00:15:34,950 Speaker 1: She has to lie her way onto a hospital ship. 216 00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:40,630 Speaker 1: And Hemingway is traveling, you know, the wartime version of 217 00:15:40,670 --> 00:15:41,310 Speaker 1: the red carpet. 218 00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:42,710 Speaker 2: I was about to say, yeah, I mean, it's not 219 00:15:42,750 --> 00:15:46,670 Speaker 2: like it's, you know, super posh, but certainly more posh 220 00:15:46,730 --> 00:15:48,870 Speaker 2: than her, you know, having to more or less stow 221 00:15:48,910 --> 00:15:52,670 Speaker 2: away on a hospital ship, not traveling in style at all. 222 00:15:53,130 --> 00:15:57,130 Speaker 2: He was on this cushy government approved, you know, ride 223 00:15:57,170 --> 00:16:00,590 Speaker 2: to Normandy, Gellhorn. on the other hand, was slumming it 224 00:16:00,890 --> 00:16:04,490 Speaker 2: in the hospital ship. On the way, a police officer 225 00:16:04,890 --> 00:16:09,420 Speaker 2: stopped her, and she had to, you know, spin a yarn, again, 226 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,950 Speaker 2: think on her feet, Yeah, this. 227 00:16:12,850 --> 00:16:17,770 Speaker 1: Is a crazy quotation, and we hope everybody hears it verbatim. 228 00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:21,830 Speaker 1: When she gets jammed up by the cops, she tells 229 00:16:22,270 --> 00:16:26,229 Speaker 1: the authorities that she's going to report on the, quote, 230 00:16:26,530 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: women's angle for Collier's magazine. In a later interview, she says, quote, 231 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,860 Speaker 1: no one gave a hoot about the women's angle. It 232 00:16:36,940 --> 00:16:40,060 Speaker 1: served like the perfect forged passport. 233 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, allowed her to just kind of drift through without 234 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,340 Speaker 2: being noticed because people didn't take her or her beat seriously. 235 00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:51,790 Speaker 2: So Gellhorn, because of her, I don't know, like pluckiness 236 00:16:52,050 --> 00:16:57,330 Speaker 2: and resourcefulness, actually got to the scene before Hemingway because 237 00:16:57,370 --> 00:17:01,109 Speaker 2: he's just cruising along, you know? Yeah, yeah. And she 238 00:17:01,130 --> 00:17:03,310 Speaker 2: was with the front line, you know, what would you 239 00:17:03,350 --> 00:17:05,990 Speaker 2: call it? First responders. So it would make sense that 240 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 2: she would get there first. 241 00:17:07,390 --> 00:17:10,899 Speaker 1: And when we said, that she lied her way onto 242 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: a hospital ship guys. She was pretending to be a nurse, 243 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: but I love the point you're making there, Noel, because 244 00:17:17,780 --> 00:17:23,820 Speaker 1: once she gets to the conflict area, she acts as 245 00:17:23,900 --> 00:17:27,619 Speaker 1: a nurse. She's helping the medical staff. She's bringing food 246 00:17:27,660 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: and water to soldiers. And she's a polyglot. She speaks 247 00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:37,090 Speaker 1: multiple languages that like, Is it lying at that point? 248 00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:40,190 Speaker 1: Because she kind of did these amazing things. 249 00:17:40,260 --> 00:17:42,869 Speaker 2: She stepped right into the role. Yeah, no question about it. 250 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: Oh, she's like a Gary Oldman method actor. 251 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: That's very true. Well, I mean, at the very least, 252 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 2: it showed that she wasn't just there to get the scoop. 253 00:17:49,940 --> 00:17:52,220 Speaker 2: She really wanted to help. Like, she was a journalist 254 00:17:52,260 --> 00:17:55,500 Speaker 2: that was out to do good and not just, like, 255 00:17:55,580 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: be first to the scene to get a big story 256 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 2: and a big byline. Yeah, yeah. 257 00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: And lo and behold... Collier's does publish some stuff about 258 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,070 Speaker 1: the war. If you look at the cover story of 259 00:18:10,180 --> 00:18:13,970 Speaker 1: one of the Collier's publications, you will see a guy 260 00:18:14,010 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: named Ernest Hemingway, who wrote a big piece about it. 261 00:18:18,410 --> 00:18:24,129 Speaker 1: You will also see his spouse, Martha Gellhorn, whose excellent 262 00:18:24,210 --> 00:18:29,750 Speaker 1: writing is relegated to the back. There's no fanfare. There's 263 00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:35,870 Speaker 1: no mention of her doing this awesome Gary Oldman-style method acting. 264 00:18:37,790 --> 00:18:40,690 Speaker 1: There's a bit of a conspiracy at play here because 265 00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:45,810 Speaker 1: a lot of people with knowledge of the situation are 266 00:18:45,869 --> 00:18:50,090 Speaker 1: telling us that Ernest Hemingway never actually stepped foot on 267 00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:50,730 Speaker 1: the beach. 268 00:18:51,010 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 2: He stayed on the cushy boat. He stayed on the boat. 269 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,450 Speaker 2: No one saw him. No one saw him get off. Mm-hmm. 270 00:18:56,890 --> 00:18:59,330 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like, let me write my thing about the 271 00:18:59,390 --> 00:18:59,830 Speaker 1: old man. 272 00:19:00,270 --> 00:19:05,450 Speaker 2: Whatever. But he did get all the fanfare and, you know, 273 00:19:06,130 --> 00:19:10,540 Speaker 2: Gellhorn got shorted. Afterwards, Smithsonian Magazine put it this way. 274 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 2: Upon her return to London, Gellhorn was arrested by military 275 00:19:14,660 --> 00:19:17,980 Speaker 2: police for essentially everything that she had done to get 276 00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:22,140 Speaker 2: to Normandy for traveling without permission. She was sent to 277 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 2: a training camp for American nurses and and told that 278 00:19:26,340 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 2: she could go back to France when the nurses did. 279 00:19:30,020 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: That's a very strange punishment. That's very strange and probably illegal. 280 00:19:38,420 --> 00:19:41,379 Speaker 2: But she got her story published, and she was the 281 00:19:41,550 --> 00:19:45,070 Speaker 2: only woman to have been on the ground, actually, at 282 00:19:45,290 --> 00:19:46,250 Speaker 2: the D-Day landings. 283 00:19:47,670 --> 00:19:52,580 Speaker 1: And as you may imagine, folks... Martha and Ernest are 284 00:19:52,820 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: no longer in their honeymoon period. Things are getting tense, 285 00:19:57,660 --> 00:20:03,050 Speaker 1: and anybody who has been in a long-time relationship knows 286 00:20:03,090 --> 00:20:06,770 Speaker 1: you have these ups and downs. But folks, this couple 287 00:20:07,070 --> 00:20:09,790 Speaker 1: was no longer friendly. 288 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,899 Speaker 2: Right. Well, no, I mean, I can't imagine they would be. 289 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,459 Speaker 2: I mean, not only was it a contentious relationship and 290 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 2: dude kind of trying to lord over her. I mean, 291 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 2: he literally tried to screw her career. 292 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:31,190 Speaker 1: Yeah. And steal her story. It was her idea. All 293 00:20:31,210 --> 00:20:37,219 Speaker 1: to say of Ernest Hemingway's four wives, Martha Gellhorn, is 294 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,530 Speaker 1: the only one who left him proactively, as far as 295 00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:47,110 Speaker 1: we can tell. The couple officially gets divorced in 1945. 296 00:20:47,109 --> 00:20:52,379 Speaker 1: And here's a baller move. One of Martha Gellhorn's stipulations 297 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: in every interview after that was that you could never 298 00:20:57,940 --> 00:21:02,460 Speaker 1: say the name Ernest Hemingway around her. She hated the guy. 299 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,180 Speaker 2: Yeah, if that came up, she'd probably do a walkout. 300 00:21:07,380 --> 00:21:11,180 Speaker 2: Gellhorn continued to cover different conflicts and made a name 301 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 2: for herself with her particularly human-focused reporting. I mean, it 302 00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 2: makes sense given the way she covered the Great Depression 303 00:21:18,780 --> 00:21:22,020 Speaker 2: and her kind of on-the-ground philosophy. It was not, I 304 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,179 Speaker 2: don't know, style over substance kind of writing. It was 305 00:21:25,260 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 2: really getting to the heart of what was going on 306 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 2: with people. Smithsonian puts it, where Gellhorn distinguished herself from 307 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: other reporters was the focus of her articles rather than 308 00:21:33,619 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 2: writing about generals or details of the fighting. She chronicled 309 00:21:37,220 --> 00:21:41,250 Speaker 2: the stories of civilians unable to escape the violence of war, children, women, 310 00:21:41,290 --> 00:21:45,510 Speaker 2: the elderly, and others threatened by flying bullets and exploding shrapnel. 311 00:21:46,090 --> 00:21:49,910 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this kind of reporting is something we need 312 00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:54,020 Speaker 1: more of in the modern day. Noel, you and I 313 00:21:54,140 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: travel pretty widely, and I think we can agree that 314 00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:03,370 Speaker 1: most people kind of want the same things, right? You 315 00:22:03,420 --> 00:22:07,490 Speaker 1: want food, shelter, You want your kids to have a 316 00:22:07,609 --> 00:22:12,010 Speaker 1: better life than you did. You want a day off, 317 00:22:12,310 --> 00:22:13,020 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. 318 00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:15,260 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's so important to look at what's 319 00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 2: going on with people because they're so easily made into 320 00:22:19,340 --> 00:22:25,110 Speaker 2: this monolith that's associated with an enemy, you know, or, 321 00:22:25,140 --> 00:22:29,070 Speaker 2: you know, like some sort of ideological stand-in, you know? 322 00:22:29,170 --> 00:22:31,190 Speaker 2: I mean, at the end of the day, yeah, you're right. 323 00:22:31,790 --> 00:22:34,290 Speaker 2: People are people and we are all the same in 324 00:22:34,330 --> 00:22:36,930 Speaker 2: that respect. And we all deserve to be treated like humans. 325 00:22:37,210 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 2: And she understood that and knew that that was not 326 00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:43,699 Speaker 2: happening and wanted to shed light on that fact. It's 327 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,410 Speaker 2: the only way, you know, I think we can do better. 328 00:22:46,930 --> 00:22:53,190 Speaker 2: Not that we've figured it out. There we go. Yeah, yeah. 329 00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:55,650 Speaker 1: What I think you and I are saying is go team. 330 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just mean figure it out in terms of 331 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 2: like as a species. We're still pretty awful to ourselves. 332 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. But we're in the early days in 333 00:23:05,780 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: the grand scheme of. 334 00:23:06,660 --> 00:23:07,369 Speaker 2: Things, right? 335 00:23:07,380 --> 00:23:08,129 Speaker 1: I guess so. 336 00:23:08,150 --> 00:23:09,149 Speaker 2: That's one way of looking at it. 337 00:23:09,790 --> 00:23:14,550 Speaker 1: There's always an opportunity to improve. And Martha Gellhorn saw this. 338 00:23:14,830 --> 00:23:18,659 Speaker 1: She was present. in the Vietnam War. Reporting from there, 339 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: she traveled to Panama after the United States invasion. She 340 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:29,900 Speaker 1: also wrote more books. She is a better writer than 341 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,929 Speaker 1: Ernest Hemingway. Fine. Don't email us about it. 342 00:23:33,090 --> 00:23:36,229 Speaker 2: It's correct. I mean, Ben, as much as I was 343 00:23:36,290 --> 00:23:41,410 Speaker 2: down on the lesser... Thomas Carnegie. Carnegie in the last episode. 344 00:23:41,910 --> 00:23:43,990 Speaker 2: You really got to beef with this Hemingway cat. 345 00:23:44,020 --> 00:23:45,500 Speaker 1: I got to stop negative. You're right. 346 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,900 Speaker 2: It's deserved. The guy was a bit of a blowhard. 347 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,210 Speaker 1: He liked cats. He did like cast. 348 00:23:50,250 --> 00:23:52,970 Speaker 2: And I'm really looking forward to whoever I'm going to 349 00:23:52,990 --> 00:23:54,940 Speaker 2: be super down on in the next episode, because that's 350 00:23:54,980 --> 00:23:56,899 Speaker 2: just seems like what what we're on. Let's do it. 351 00:23:57,020 --> 00:23:57,820 Speaker 1: It's a thing. 352 00:23:58,119 --> 00:23:59,940 Speaker 2: Now it's Ben. That's going to be me next. And 353 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,929 Speaker 2: then I don't know. Yeah, I like it. We love it. 354 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,740 Speaker 1: We also are fans of Martha Gellhorn's books. We said 355 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: her we talked about her first book briefly. She published anthologies, right? 356 00:24:14,650 --> 00:24:17,690 Speaker 2: She sure did. A collection of wartime articles that she'd 357 00:24:17,730 --> 00:24:20,670 Speaker 2: written called The Face of War. And then she wrote 358 00:24:20,770 --> 00:24:24,469 Speaker 2: a fictional novel, an account of McCarthyism called The Lowest 359 00:24:24,609 --> 00:24:27,650 Speaker 2: Trees Have Tops, which I think is such an interesting 360 00:24:27,810 --> 00:24:29,790 Speaker 2: image that I think I fully understand what she means 361 00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:30,130 Speaker 2: by that. 362 00:24:30,590 --> 00:24:36,379 Speaker 1: That is interesting. That's one I haven't read. But McCarthyism 363 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: was a very odd social phenomenon, right? Would we call 364 00:24:41,180 --> 00:24:42,020 Speaker 1: it a moral panic? 365 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,550 Speaker 2: Oh, big time. Yeah, and it seems like we're seeing 366 00:24:44,590 --> 00:24:47,030 Speaker 2: it rear its head a bit right now with all 367 00:24:47,050 --> 00:24:50,650 Speaker 2: of the talk of commies, you know? That language, that 368 00:24:50,690 --> 00:24:52,650 Speaker 2: rhetoric seems to be back in a big way. 369 00:24:53,230 --> 00:24:57,610 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. How dare people have health care? So anyway, 370 00:24:58,810 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: this absolute legend, Martha Gellhorn, has passed away. She was 371 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: diagnosed with ovarian cancer. Her sight was failing her. She 372 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: was nearly totally blind. When she was 89 years old. 373 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 2: That's a long life for back then, man. Right. 374 00:25:17,859 --> 00:25:23,050 Speaker 1: It's a long life. It is 1998. It is February 375 00:25:23,350 --> 00:25:25,250 Speaker 1: 15th when she passes away. 376 00:25:25,270 --> 00:25:28,950 Speaker 2: Oof. And a little trigger warning just about ending one's 377 00:25:29,050 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 2: own life. She did do that. She had ovarian cancer. 378 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,220 Speaker 2: All of the things that you mentioned, Ben, the maladies 379 00:25:35,260 --> 00:25:38,140 Speaker 2: that were just making her quality of life very poor. 380 00:25:38,810 --> 00:25:41,220 Speaker 2: And she took matters into her own hands and swallowed 381 00:25:41,260 --> 00:25:43,980 Speaker 2: a cyanide pill, passing away, as he said, at the 382 00:25:44,060 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 2: age of 89. 383 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:52,870 Speaker 1: Yet she is not gone. Her legacy remains. We have something. 384 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:58,550 Speaker 1: I say we. Civilization has something called the Martha Gellhorn 385 00:25:58,930 --> 00:26:02,790 Speaker 1: Prize for Journalism. And we've got a great quote from 386 00:26:02,850 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: The Independent, which we believe sums up this story and 387 00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: this episode perfectly. 388 00:26:10,220 --> 00:26:13,070 Speaker 2: Yep they said the award will be for the kind 389 00:26:13,109 --> 00:26:16,689 Speaker 2: of reporting that distinguished Martha in her own words the 390 00:26:16,750 --> 00:26:18,310 Speaker 2: view from the ground. 391 00:26:18,790 --> 00:26:22,690 Speaker 1: This is essentially a human story that penetrates the established 392 00:26:22,830 --> 00:26:27,100 Speaker 1: version of events and illuminates an urgent issue buried by 393 00:26:27,220 --> 00:26:30,580 Speaker 1: prevailing fashions of what makes news. 394 00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 2: We would expect the winner to tell an unpalatable truth 395 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:41,620 Speaker 2: validated by powerful facts that exposes establishment conduct and its propaganda. Or, 396 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,340 Speaker 2: as Martha put it, official drivel. 397 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:46,940 Speaker 1: Ah, so cool, man. Dude, that's good. 398 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 2: Official drivel. I'm going to use that. That's so good. 399 00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: Official drivel. We can't thank you enough for joining us today, folks. 400 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,770 Speaker 1: We hope you ride along with us when we figure 401 00:26:57,850 --> 00:27:01,350 Speaker 1: out who Max Williams is going to nag in a 402 00:27:01,410 --> 00:27:04,610 Speaker 1: future episode. And shout out to our super producer. 403 00:27:05,030 --> 00:27:07,889 Speaker 2: For sure. And what better way to end the episode 404 00:27:07,910 --> 00:27:10,930 Speaker 2: than with a quote from Martha herself that I think 405 00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:14,570 Speaker 2: is pretty, pretty powerful. There has to be a better 406 00:27:14,609 --> 00:27:17,330 Speaker 2: way to run the world. And we had better see 407 00:27:17,450 --> 00:27:20,050 Speaker 2: that we get it. There we are. Truth. 408 00:27:20,650 --> 00:27:25,350 Speaker 1: Truer words. Big, big thanks, of course, as well to A.J. 409 00:27:25,410 --> 00:27:30,409 Speaker 1: Bahamas Jacobs, a.k.a. The Puzzler. I was just watching a 410 00:27:30,540 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: TED Talk that he did. 411 00:27:32,750 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 2: What a sharp fella that puzzler is. Ben, didn't you 412 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,540 Speaker 2: say he invented a new form of crossword? 413 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,020 Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. It's one cell. 414 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,230 Speaker 2: I don't know how I feel about that. I know. 415 00:27:45,290 --> 00:27:46,310 Speaker 1: I think he's trolling us. 416 00:27:46,310 --> 00:27:49,590 Speaker 2: We'll have to ask him about it. We should. We should. 417 00:27:49,980 --> 00:27:54,660 Speaker 1: Also, the opposite of thanks to Jonathan Strickland, a.k.a. The Quister, 418 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: who will be returning with us for an episode about 419 00:27:58,820 --> 00:28:00,110 Speaker 1: the Mechanical Turk. 420 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,790 Speaker 2: Oh, the Mechanical Turk. Clockwork man. Indeed. A huge thanks 421 00:28:04,810 --> 00:28:08,169 Speaker 2: to Alex Williams, who composed our theme. Eve Jeffcoats and 422 00:28:08,190 --> 00:28:12,550 Speaker 2: Christopher Haciotis here in spirit. Research Associate Extraordinaire Ames. And you, Ben. 423 00:28:13,490 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: Ah, and also to you. 424 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:24,330 Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from 425 00:28:24,410 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 2: iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 426 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,290 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.