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Speaker 1: I've interviewed a ton of people for this podcast, so

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Speaker 1: many smart and thoughtful people, thought provoking conversations. But this

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Speaker 1: next interview is one of the more interesting ones I've

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Speaker 1: had to date. I watched a speech that our next guest,

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Speaker 1: James Lindsay, gave before the European Parliament. I reached out

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Speaker 1: to him after watching it to have him on the show.

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Speaker 1: Let's just take a listen to some of what he said.

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Speaker 2: I wrote a book called Race Marxism, and I defined

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Speaker 2: critical race theory as it really is in that book.

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Speaker 2: On the first page, I said that critical race theory

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Speaker 2: is calling everything you want to control racist until you

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Speaker 2: control it. But couldn't we say the same about Marxism.

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Speaker 2: It's calling everything you want to control bourgeois until you

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Speaker 2: control it. As we tell our children, being white is bad.

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Speaker 2: Being white is oppressive. You automatically hurt people of other

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Speaker 2: races by your very existence. But by the way, if

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Speaker 2: you become queer, we'll celebrate you, and you can create

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Speaker 2: a radical army of people who identify as gender minorities

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Speaker 2: and sexual minorities at seven years old.

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Speaker 1: So the entire speech is worth watching. But what he

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Speaker 1: did so well was to name the enemy that we're facing.

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Speaker 1: The enemy is Marxism, this march towards tyranny that we

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Speaker 1: are on. You know, he articulated that threat better than most,

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Speaker 1: that threat that we face, What it looks like, where

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Speaker 1: it comes from. You might know him from Twitter as

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Speaker 1: conceptual James, but doctor James Lindsay is an American born author,

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Speaker 1: a mathematician, and, as he says, a professional troublemaker. He

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Speaker 1: has written six books and has been really leading the

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Speaker 1: charge against critical race theory. And he joins me, next,

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Speaker 1: trust me, this one is absolutely worth listening to. James.

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Speaker 1: It's great to have you on the podcast. I've been

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Speaker 1: following your work for a while. I watched a speech

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Speaker 1: he recently gave in the European Parliament, and you really

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Speaker 1: touch on the societal decline that we are facing, which

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Speaker 1: is probably the most important issue today.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, thanks. They invited me over to the EU

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Speaker 2: to speak about what is woke. It's kind of a

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Speaker 2: funny thing they perceive, although you know, here in America

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Speaker 2: we look over at Europe and we think, wow, they're

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Speaker 2: really far down the old socialist road way ahead of us.

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Speaker 2: And they look over at us and they think we've

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Speaker 2: gone crazy and they don't think that we They say

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Speaker 2: that in Europe they don't really have woke yet. You know,

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Speaker 2: men are still men and nobody's confused about this. People

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Speaker 2: know what a woman is and the race issue is present,

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Speaker 2: but it rings a little off key. So they don't

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Speaker 2: really have kind of the same woke movement, but they

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Speaker 2: do have a very you know, strong and active leftist culture.

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Speaker 2: So the European Union, actually a group called Identity and Democracy,

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Speaker 2: which is a center right party throughout Europe which has

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Speaker 2: some representation in the Parliament, invited me over to a

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Speaker 2: conference that they were hosting to speak about woke and

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Speaker 2: it's it's kind of making its way into Europe with

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Speaker 2: a particular emphasis on what is it and how can

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Speaker 2: they stop it from kind of doing to Europe what

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Speaker 2: it's doing to the United States and Canada.

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Speaker 1: Well, and what's interesting is I feel like a lot

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Speaker 1: of times, you know, we talk about these terms like

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Speaker 1: equity or woke or critical race theory, and what you

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Speaker 1: did so well in this speech was defined them. You

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Speaker 1: said at the end of the speech, you said you

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Speaker 1: came to name the enemy for the audience. Who is

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Speaker 1: that enemy? And what should people know about that enemy.

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Speaker 2: Well, there are kind of two questions with regard to

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Speaker 2: the enemy, and those questions are really who and what?

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Speaker 2: And so the who is a little bit, you know,

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Speaker 2: obviously more accusatory to start naming names, but the organizations

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Speaker 2: that are facilitating this upon us usually tend to go

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Speaker 2: by acronyms. I would name the United Nations as a

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Speaker 2: central actor in this story, the primary coordinator. I was

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Speaker 2: talking to my wife last night and I said, it's

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Speaker 2: almost like the transmission of the car that makes the

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Speaker 2: power go from the engine to the wheels is the

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Speaker 2: World Economic Form, which meets in Davos, you know, every January,

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Speaker 2: and it meets in China in the summer, mentioning China.

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Speaker 2: The CCP is somehow involved in these other big organizations

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Speaker 2: like the World Health Organization WHO, the Council for Foreign

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Speaker 2: Relations CFR. It's kind of this acronym soup of tyranny.

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Speaker 2: But the primary actors for the concerns in the West,

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Speaker 2: I would say overwhelmingly are the United Nations in coordination

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Speaker 2: with the World Economic Forms. That's the who, the what,

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Speaker 2: And that was the thesis of my speech is that

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Speaker 2: this is the updated form of Marxism, adapted to take

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Speaker 2: over the Western context. It you know, Marxism took over

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Speaker 2: the Russian context with the Russian Revolution led by the Bolsheviks,

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Speaker 2: took over the Chinese context using Mao and his strategies

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Speaker 2: to do first a kind of traditional revolution in nineteen

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Speaker 2: forty nine forty six to forty nine, and then a

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Speaker 2: full blown culture revolution to transform China starting in nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty six. And what we are actually seeing is a

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Speaker 2: cultural revolution has a very Maoist kind of substructure has

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Speaker 2: been brought to the West using Western technology in a sense,

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Speaker 2: cultural technology, whether that's identity politics in the form of race, sex, gender,

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Speaker 2: and so on, whether that's literally corporate power, which is

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Speaker 2: the way that Western power really kind of operates, the

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Speaker 2: growing managerial what they call public private partnership, the revolving door,

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Speaker 2: if you will, and arrangements and agreements between big capital

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Speaker 2: and big government.

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Speaker 1: What is the intention with this form of Marxism that

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Speaker 1: we're facing here in America.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean the form of Marxism overall, always in general,

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Speaker 2: is to create a single global system of administered political

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Speaker 2: and socioeconomic economy. The goal is to be able to

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Speaker 2: take control over all of the means of production, and

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Speaker 2: that means the kind of physical, literal material production, whether

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Speaker 2: that's goods or services, but also the production of who

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Speaker 2: we think we are and in fact who we are

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Speaker 2: as people. This has always been the goal, going back

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Speaker 2: to Marx's early writings, even before the Communist Manifesto, writing

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Speaker 2: in say, eighteen forty three eighteen forty four, it was

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Speaker 2: always the goal to seize the means of production of mankind.

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Speaker 2: But it's also to create, in a more prosaic sense,

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Speaker 2: a perfectly controlled and stable system that doesn't have the

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Speaker 2: kind of boom and bus cycles that get out from

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Speaker 2: underneath their control. The idea is that they need perfectly

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Speaker 2: controllable consumers, perfectly controllable political entities or citizens, so that

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Speaker 2: they can have a perfectly smooth economy that operates according

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Speaker 2: to their changing whims as they go. And so that's

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Speaker 2: the overall goal, is to create a single global system

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Speaker 2: that in a sense is, if I might use their

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Speaker 2: word for it, sustainable. On the other hand, and the

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Speaker 2: woke movement as kind of a cultural revolution, is meant

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Speaker 2: to in many of the things that we see like this, esg.

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Speaker 2: Scoring of corporations, the strict environmental net zero policies. We

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Speaker 2: just saw the new king talking about the ESG or whatever,

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Speaker 2: the net zero protocols that he was instrumental in organizing.

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Speaker 2: It's law in the UK. Those are actually meant to

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Speaker 2: economically and culturally break and destroy Western civilization so that

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Speaker 2: this new culture and this new model can can replace it.

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Speaker 1: Is that the point of equity to drive everything down?

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Speaker 1: You'd mentioned in this speech about equity. Where did the

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Speaker 1: term come from? What should people know about it?

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Speaker 2: To answer your question about equity, first, the answer is

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Speaker 2: kind of that's the point of equity. It's certainly the

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Speaker 2: effect of equity. The question is as a side effect

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Speaker 2: or an intended effect, and I think in this case

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Speaker 2: it's actually both. I think they know that it drives

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Speaker 2: things down, and then they use the degradation that it

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Speaker 2: creates to drive more of their initiatives, because this is

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Speaker 2: how the left operates. They create problems, than they blame

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Speaker 2: somebody else for the problems, and demand more power to

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Speaker 2: solve the problem that they in fact themselves created. And

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Speaker 2: so equity does. My saying for that is equity equalizes

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Speaker 2: downward because it must. Because if in my speech I

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Speaker 2: gave the definition of equity and the definition of equity

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Speaker 2: is an administered socio political economy in which shares are

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Speaker 2: adjusted so that citizens are made equal. I should probably

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Speaker 2: pause and let people rewind and listen to it again,

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Speaker 2: because it's a lot of big words. But what that

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Speaker 2: is is socialism. That's literally the definition for socialism. It

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Speaker 2: is the socialism that was originally envisioned by Stalin that

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Speaker 2: would extend beyond economic socialism and reach into cultural and

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Speaker 2: political and social spheres to make genuine, full communist equality.

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Speaker 2: And so it's a rebranding and kind of fulfillment of

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Speaker 2: the concept of socialism. And it must because it redistributes shares.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't create, it doesn't build. It redistributes shares so

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Speaker 2: as to make citizens equal. Now, the term equity arose

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Speaker 2: in the public administration and administive state or managerial state literature.

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Speaker 2: They started to arise in the US following World War Two.

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Speaker 2: This kind of literature started to blossom in about forty

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Speaker 2: five to forty eight. Dwight Waldo wrote a book called

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Speaker 2: The Administrative State. In nineteen forty eight, he held a

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Speaker 2: series of conferences later called the Minnobrook Conferences, and at

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Speaker 2: one of these Mino Brook conferences, the definition of social

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Speaker 2: equity was given, and it was argued that the administrative

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Speaker 2: state has an obligation not just to consider efficiency an

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Speaker 2: economy when they're trying to determine what they should do,

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Speaker 2: say mass transit or whatever else. It shouldn't just be

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Speaker 2: efficient and economical, it should also be equitable. So they

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Speaker 2: added a third leg to the stool of how public

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Speaker 2: administration should prioritize, where that goal was to redistribute share

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Speaker 2: so that citizens are made more equal. Well, this of

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Speaker 2: course is saying explicitly that the administrative apparatus of whether

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Speaker 2: it's corporations but actually large nations in the West should

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Speaker 2: start tooling themselves specifically to redistribute shares an opportunity to

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Speaker 2: try to adjust for social inequality, and that was always

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Speaker 2: its intention. Well, like I said, that's always going to

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Speaker 2: lead downward, not upward. It always means taking from somebody

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Speaker 2: and then redistributing through an inefficient mechanism that doesn't have

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Speaker 2: actually kind of full contact with This is too abstract.

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Speaker 2: I should really simplify what I'm saying, But.

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Speaker 1: Oh, go for it, say whatever you want.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So at time, so the government is what's called

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Speaker 2: a third person consumer and spender. This is the first person,

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Speaker 2: second person third person model. If I'm a first person consumer, right,

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Speaker 2: So let's say you run a coffee shop and I

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Speaker 2: come to your coffee shop and I'm like, I want

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Speaker 2: coffee and I'm going to buy coffee, and you say,

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Speaker 2: coffee cost ten dollars, and I have to sit here

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Speaker 2: and I have to calculate in my thoughts, is Lisa's

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Speaker 2: cappuccino worth ten dollars? In other words, am I willing

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Speaker 2: to part with ten dollars in order to obtain the

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Speaker 2: cappuccino that you make? And maybe you make a world

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Speaker 2: class cappuccino that I want sometimes and it's worth ten bucks.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you don't. And I think, now you know what?

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Speaker 2: So I have to take into account two variables when

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Speaker 2: I make my purchasing decision as the first person, which

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Speaker 2: is quality and cost. I care about both of those things. Now,

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Speaker 2: if it's a second person decision, I'm using somebody else's money.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go. You know, you say, hey, I'll

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Speaker 2: buy you a coffee, So now it's your money, I

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Speaker 2: get the coffee. I care about quality, but I don't

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Speaker 2: care about cost. You care about cost, but you don't

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Speaker 2: care about quality. Do you see how that works? So

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Speaker 2: in the second person decision, only one of those two

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Speaker 2: variables is actually being optimized around. The government isn't even

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Speaker 2: second person, it's third person. The administrative body, the bureaucracy,

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Speaker 2: This administrative apparatus is a third person buyer. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: care about quality because it's not the consumer, and it

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Speaker 2: doesn't care about cost because it's ultimately not responsible for

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Speaker 2: the spending. They may write the check or pay the

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Speaker 2: bill or whatever. They may purchase the coffee physically, but

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Speaker 2: they're using somebody else's money, so cost and quality are

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Speaker 2: not concerned. So what you end up with when you

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Speaker 2: have an administrative bureaucracy is a very inefficient. It's not

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Speaker 2: even you know, if you used an individual who cares

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Speaker 2: they're processing is not one hundred percent efficient. Nothing is.

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Speaker 2: But when you go to a third person kind of consumer,

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Speaker 2: like a government, you now have an overwhelmingly inefficient process.

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Speaker 2: So when equity goes to redistribute shares, what it's doing

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Speaker 2: is it's taking value from somewhere running it into a

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Speaker 2: horrifically inefficient machine where it doesn't care about cost or quality.

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Speaker 2: So outcomes and inputs become sort of these abstract, irrelevant

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Speaker 2: entities to them, and what comes out the end is,

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Speaker 2: you know, not nearly as good as what would happen

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Speaker 2: if we had you know, tons of individual largely autonomous

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Speaker 2: consumers going out and making individual purchasing decisions, weighing out

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Speaker 2: both variables for themselves. So the effort to I know

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Speaker 2: that was a little high follutin, but that's actually a

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Speaker 2: large or you know, profoundly important reason why socialism or

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Speaker 2: equity initiatives are always going to actually make things worse,

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Speaker 2: not better. There's no such thing as a government that's

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Speaker 2: a first person buyer, that cares about the relevant variables

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Speaker 2: or that can be held to account properly, so its

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Speaker 2: efficiency level is far lower in this kind of schema,

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Speaker 2: so you can expect that it's going to do bad results.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm picking up what you're putting down. And then

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Speaker 1: of course you know, the people in charge, the rulers,

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Speaker 1: aren't necessarily subjected to some of this. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: can look at examples like Cuba, when you know, if

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Speaker 1: the tel Castros net worth was something like nine hundred,

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Speaker 1: you know, million dollars. So of course, if you're either

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Speaker 1: part of the World Economic Forum or are some of

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Speaker 1: these these world leaders. You're not that worried about what

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Speaker 1: this means for your general income or what it means

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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course not, because you know, you're in a

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Speaker 2: sense very insulated from all of those concerns. It's not

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Speaker 2: just having what some people call fu money. It's that

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Speaker 2: you're actually even and further insulated from anything. These things

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Speaker 2: layers and layers of insulation. So it's not really important

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Speaker 2: to you. So your little theory about how the world

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Speaker 2: should work, it's something that if you can gather up

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Speaker 2: the power to start to implement it, because you don't

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Speaker 2: get hit with the impacts of that, it doesn't really

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Speaker 2: matter to you. Now. Of course, we saw what happens when,

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Speaker 2: you know, people test this theory. For example, when Governor

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Speaker 2: DeSantis decided to send a bunch of illegal immigrants to

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Speaker 2: Martha's vineyard. All of a sudden, that was like the

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Speaker 2: most horrific thing that anybody could possibly have done. He

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Speaker 2: was like a super racist, xenophobic, something, hate crimes, you know, whatever, words,

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Speaker 2: every apoplectic word that the left uses came out. Somehow

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Speaker 2: it was probably transphobic. Somehow they were so angry that

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you know, the normally fully ensconced

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Speaker 2: people would have to actually deal with the consequences of

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Speaker 2: their policies, even in a very minor and short term way,

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Speaker 2: and to take it, you know, with public relations on

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Speaker 2: the as a result, and they didn't like that one bit.

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Speaker 2: So you can tell that they're used to being, you know,

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Speaker 2: policies for the but not policies for me. They're used

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Speaker 2: to feeling above the laws, above the effects of their decisions,

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Speaker 2: and they can therefore tinker around in what a friend

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Speaker 2: of mine calls perfect ideal land about how the world

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Speaker 2: should be, and then they can just kind of force

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Speaker 2: other people to live in the crappy world that that

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Speaker 2: creates while they get to kind of float above it

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Speaker 2: and grift off of whatever's happening while holding themselves out

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Speaker 2: as you know, the great moral paragons of our time. Oh,

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Speaker 2: we're the ones who are solving the biggest social issues

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Speaker 2: and cultural issues and economic issues of our time. Look

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Speaker 2: how great we are. And meanwhile, you have a few

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Speaker 2: of these people that are tucked within them, proportionally speaking,

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Speaker 2: a few that are just grifting for the power that

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Speaker 2: they can get out of it. They are actually into

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Speaker 2: the idea of implementing not just kind of whimsical failures

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Speaker 2: of ideas, but ones that increase the level of social

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Speaker 2: control in the next iteration wards, they're tyrants. Tyrants will

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Speaker 2: be drawn to opportunities like this, and we'll exploit them.

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Speaker 2: And history has taught us that this is the case

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Speaker 2: every single time, and it's the case this time as

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Speaker 2: well well.

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Speaker 1: And we saw that in abundance and with absolute clarity

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Speaker 1: during COVID, when we were lectured to about certain things,

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Speaker 1: and then our leaders did the exact opposite, whether it

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Speaker 1: be Obama throwing a rager in Martha's vineyard while telling

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Speaker 1: everyone else to isolate and stay away from people, or

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Speaker 1: doctor Burke's or you know, Gavin Newsom or you know,

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Speaker 1: the list goes on. But you had mentioned tyranny. Isn't

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Speaker 1: that really what this is about, is a fight against tyranny?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, that's what this is. This is this all

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Speaker 2: boils down to tyranny versus liberty. Everybody's kind of looking

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Speaker 2: for the axis. Is it left versus right? Is it

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Speaker 2: Republicans versus democrats? The answer is no, it is tyranny

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Speaker 2: versus liberty. It is Some people will try to say

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Speaker 2: that it's control versus freedom, or control versus liberty. But

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Speaker 2: it's really tyranny. The goal with all of these kinds

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Speaker 2: of huge programs that are kind of tucked into woke

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Speaker 2: language or environmentalist language or whatever else, is to create

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Speaker 2: social control mechanisms very much like the ones that I

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Speaker 2: would go so far as to say, we're piloted in China.

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Speaker 2: So what we see happening in China with the kind

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Speaker 2: of very strict social credit system, with the kind of

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Speaker 2: neighborhoods that have these extraordinary lockdowns and turnstile gates you

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Speaker 2: have to pass through and scan your face so the

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Speaker 2: government can track your movement and know where you are.

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Speaker 2: All of this kind of extraordinary tyranny that you were

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Speaker 2: seeing emerge in China is the pilot for what they

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Speaker 2: want globally, what they want in the West. And so

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Speaker 2: we're dealing with tyrants whose ambitions for us are to

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Speaker 2: keep us. You know, you will own nothing and be

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Speaker 2: happy is probably ambitious. You will own nothing is probably correct.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that they actually are genuinely that concerned

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Speaker 2: with their happiness. They just want us unable to revolt,

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Speaker 2: and the call being unable to revolt happy just like

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Speaker 2: you know, they did with white fragility. I remember they

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Speaker 2: called you white, or they called you racist, and you said,

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Speaker 2: I don't think I'm racist, and I said, oh, that's

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Speaker 2: white fragility. Your emotion only fragile. You can't handle the accusation.

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Speaker 2: And the opposite of fragility in their literature is resilience.

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Speaker 2: So if you're a good resilient person, when they call

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Speaker 2: you names, you shut up and take it. Well, it'll

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Speaker 2: be the same thing this way, you'll own nothing and

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Speaker 2: you'll be happy. Where happy happens to mean that you're

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Speaker 2: not revolting, you're not complaining, because if you complain, it'll

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Speaker 2: get worse for you. And so see you look how

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Speaker 2: happy everybody is. Not a single person put that they're

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Speaker 2: unhappy on the survey. Everybody is still clapping for Stalin.

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Speaker 2: Nobody sat down. It's amazing they love him. Well.

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Speaker 1: I really do think Omicron saved us from some pretty

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Speaker 1: dark times here in the United States, because I do

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Speaker 1: believe they were looking at what was happening with China

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Speaker 1: and China's zero tolerance policy or zero COVID policy, and

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Speaker 1: what they were trying to achieve there, and that was

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Speaker 1: the direction we're heading in and then Omicron kind of

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Speaker 1: deprogrammed people because all these people who looked at getting

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Speaker 1: COVID as being unclean or what have you, they got COVID,

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Speaker 1: and then it was, oh, you know, time to move on.

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Speaker 2: It's not that bad.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're not a bad person if you get

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Speaker 1: COVID as someone who didn't get the vaccine. You know,

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Speaker 1: obviously we were on the receiving end of calls to

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Speaker 1: not be able to live our lives to you know,

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Speaker 1: potentially end up in some sort of government facility.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, so COVID gave us a very very

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Speaker 2: clear window into the ambition, the tyrannical ambition that we're

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Speaker 2: up against, and that it was willing to do not

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Speaker 2: just damage to the economy, not just damage to you know,

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Speaker 2: with failure of public health policies or whatever else or

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Speaker 2: whatever they did in the hospitals, but it was willing

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Speaker 2: to do damage, vicious damage sociologically and psychologically to people.

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Speaker 2: It was willing to openly, viciously to divide the population

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Speaker 2: and create an unclean class that is the scapegoat for

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Speaker 2: the society's problems, that when it's controlled or done away with, everything,

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Speaker 2: will finally be allowed to get better. I mean, this

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Speaker 2: is straight out of the Tyrants playbook. And yes, Omicron,

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Speaker 2: for you know, wherever it happened to come from, whatever

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Speaker 2: caused to come into being totally disrupted and dismantled their ambition. There.

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Speaker 2: You talk about a train running down the tracks and

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Speaker 2: hop in the rails. This thing came all the way

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Speaker 2: off the rails and ended up in the ditch. And

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Speaker 2: now they very sheepishly are kind of trying to you know,

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Speaker 2: they just recently admitted, oh, the emergencies over, we finally

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Speaker 2: defeated COVID, and they're trying to kind of salvage themselves.

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Speaker 2: But for whatever reason, we got two things there. One

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Speaker 2: is Omicron did disrupt, for whatever reason, wherever it came from,

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Speaker 2: whatever it was, being a much mild or very virulent

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Speaker 2: and completely you know, transparent to the vaccine strain of COVID,

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Speaker 2: completely disrupted the program. But before that happened, and even

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Speaker 2: some after that happened, we got a very very clear

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Speaker 2: look behind the curtain at what these people who are

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Speaker 2: in charge are after and what they're interested in, what

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Speaker 2: lengths they're willing to go, and how many of our

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Speaker 2: natural and inalien rights they're willing to just trample upon

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Speaker 2: in order to get it by setting people the most

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Speaker 2: cruel ways, setting people families against one another, with this

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Speaker 2: kind of again clean versus unclean narrative.

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Speaker 1: Well, and you've really got a glimpse for how quickly

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Speaker 1: society can turn and how quickly friends can turn on you.

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Speaker 1: You know, family, people, colleagues, you know people who know

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Speaker 1: you. You sort of get a glimpse of how quickly and

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Speaker 1: easily that can happen in societies and how it could

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Speaker 1: lead to atrocities. Talk about how Mao used identity politics.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so a lot of people don't understand that what

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Speaker 2: we're going through right now actually mirrors things that happened

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Speaker 2: in the Maoist regime very specifically, maybe a little less.

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Speaker 2: Of course, Mao used crises, etc. To advance as powers,

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Speaker 2: so we could compare to COVID. But when we look

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Speaker 2: at the woke phenomenon, the identity politics phenomenon, it's exact.

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Speaker 2: The only difference is that we're using categories relevant to

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Speaker 2: Americans rather than categories relevant to Chinese communists. And I

401
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Speaker 2: say that that way very specifically. So what happened just

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Speaker 2: to get little historical context of people understand how Mao

403
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Speaker 2: used identity politics, and why has identity politics worked the

404
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 2: way that it did. Mao actually took power twice. He

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Speaker 2: was in power, then he actually had to step down,

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Speaker 2: and then he got back into power. So there were

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Speaker 2: actually two different periods when Mao had power. The first

408
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Speaker 2: of those was following a real old school, genuine military

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Speaker 2: coup of the Chinese Nationalist government, which was called the

410
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Speaker 2: Guomingdong was the name of the party, and so that

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Speaker 2: was a military coup that was a classic communist revolution.

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Speaker 2: Mao took power at the end of nineteen forty nine.

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Speaker 2: He immediately in nineteen fifty fired every teacher in the

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Speaker 2: country and made them all get re educated into socialist doctrine.

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Speaker 2: He totally brainwashed him If they didn't satisfactorily get thought

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Speaker 2: reform or brainwashing, wouldn't let them come back to the classroom. Ever,

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Speaker 2: by nineteen fifty two, the entire education apparatus had been

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Speaker 2: transformed into Maoist propaganda brainwashing instead of education. And so then,

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Speaker 2: for whatever reason, Mao advances in nineteen fifty eight launches

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Speaker 2: this program called the Great Leap Forward, which sounds ominously

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Speaker 2: like the Great Reset, and it's a disaster kills upwards

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Speaker 2: of sixty million. Fifty to sixty million Chinese is the

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Speaker 2: estimated number of deaths from starvation and other things from

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Speaker 2: this program that he tries to leap China forward into

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Speaker 2: being a grand industrial economy like the United States and

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Speaker 2: Soviet Union. Some tens of millions die, the economy is

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Speaker 2: utterly devastated. So in nineteen sixty two they make him

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Speaker 2: step down in shame. This, of course just makes him

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Speaker 2: really mad because he's a dictator and a narcissist. So

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00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty six he unleashes his revenge where he

431
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: takes those radicalized students. And this is why I wanted

432
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 2: to give this preamble. You have to understand that by

433
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 2: the time Mao came back in nineteen sixty six for

434
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 2: his bid to power and launched what was called the

435
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: Cultural Revolution, which people have heard of, there had already

436
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 2: been sixteen years of socialism in China, in sixteen years

437
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 2: of socialist education, so everybody under the age of sixteen

438
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 2: years old had never seen anything else in this actually

439
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: twenty one years old, because they're at five years old

440
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 2: when they start school. So everybody under the age of

441
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 2: twenty one had only seen maoist brainwashing and their education

442
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 2: at this point, and so the categories he used were

443
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: socialist in kind of the traditional sense, and that made

444
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 2: sense before that, before he had power and did this

445
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 2: in the nineteen twenties and thirties. They actually used the

446
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 2: racial strife between the fifty six races of China, with

447
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 2: the Han Chinese being by far the biggest and kind

448
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 2: of a prototype of critical race theory that we see today.

449
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 2: But after this it's all socialists. So Mao created for

450
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 2: the Cultural Revolution ten identity categories, and I've heard that

451
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 2: these expanded later in his regime because he needed extra

452
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 2: good guys and bad guys to keep the power going.

453
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 2: But the original ten five were classified as bad and

454
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,719
Speaker 2: they were given the color black, and five were classified

455
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 2: as good and they were given the color red. And

456
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 2: the goal was to create a system that worked like

457
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 2: a pressure pump to push people that were in the

458
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 2: black identities, the bad identities, into the red good identities,

459
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 2: and to take the people who are in the red

460
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: ones and concentrate them into more and more radical activists.

461
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: Now that should already start to sound familiar. So he

462
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 2: had bad categories that were like landlord, rich farmer, counter revolutionary,

463
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: so if you were against him, that was bad, bad influence.

464
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 2: We call them domestic extremists, I think today at the

465
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: Department of Justice, and then right winger just rightest people

466
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 2: who were right wingers. He later added revisionist, which has

467
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: a specific meaning. And so these are the bad guys.

468
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 2: And if you were a bad guy, your kids were

469
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 2: the bad guys. If you were a bad guy, your

470
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: grandkids and great grandkids automatically got a black identity and

471
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 2: they got mistreated at school. They were, oh, you're shameful,

472
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 2: you're a black identity. You need to do better, blah

473
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 2: blah blah, the whole kind of thing. And if you

474
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 2: had a red identity, you were treated better. So you're

475
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 2: creating this pressure pump based on who you are, based

476
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 2: on things like who your parents are, how you were born.

477
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: The good identities were a little different. They're a peasant

478
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 2: and laborer because it was communism. So that's a hammer

479
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: and sickle if you didn't know. The sickle is the

480
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: peasant and doing the farm work, and the hammer is

481
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: the laborer working in the factory. And then you had

482
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 2: basically three categories of revolutionaries. You had revolutionary activists, revolutionary cadres,

483
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: which is the word they used for kind of the

484
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 2: leadership class of the revolution and revolutionary martyrs, people who

485
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 2: had died for the cause. Those were red identities, and

486
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 2: red identities were somewhat heritable too. But if you were

487
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 2: a kid with a black identity and you wanted to

488
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 2: get the better treatment of a kid with a red identity,

489
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 2: you'd have to do something like confess that you were

490
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 2: against the people, sell out your parents, rat out your father,

491
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 2: condemn your father, something like this in order to you know,

492
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 2: my parents are landlords and that makes them enemies of

493
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: the state, and I hate them. And then you can

494
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: go start to become a revolutionary and they'll reassign your identity.

495
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 2: Sometimes in fact, they gave you a new name. A

496
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 2: lot of people changed their names, kind of like we

497
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 2: see with the trans phenomenon. And we have this exact

498
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: same identity politics pressure pump happening today under intersectionality. In fact,

499
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: intersectionality is just this repurposed I recently spoke at Northwestern

500
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: and gave this history that Mao's ideas about identity politics

501
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: inspired Herbert marcusa who laid down the program of the

502
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: New Left, which inspired the radicals of the seventies who

503
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: formed a thing called the Combahee River Collective and the

504
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: kamba He River Collective gave the idea that all forms

505
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: of identity based oppression are interlinked, which became intersectionality in

506
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine when Kimberly Crenshaw gave it that name.

507
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 2: And so this is ultimately a maoist program. So you

508
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 2: have things like, you know, your race is bad. You're straight,

509
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,719
Speaker 2: that's bad, you're white that's bad. You know you're a

510
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: man that's bad. You're a thin and able body that's bad.

511
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 2: And so you have these black identities about who you are,

512
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: and then you can do something about it. You can

513
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 2: be an ally. That's a good identity. Sort of, it's

514
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: not good enough. You can. When I said that you

515
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: can be an ally, I said this part in the

516
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: speech at Northwestern and I said ally. The woke people

517
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: booed because they knew that ally is not good enough.

518
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 2: Solidarity is not enough. But you can become an ally.

519
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 2: You can become an activist. You can you know, do

520
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 2: any of these things. But you can also now adopt

521
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: a queer identity. Because queer identities unlike your race, which

522
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 2: you can't change. You can't go Rachel doleas all yourself

523
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 2: and declare yourself black. If you're white. You can, however,

524
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: declare yourself pan sexual and nobody can question you. Or

525
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 2: gender fluid or non binary or trans and nobody can

526
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: question you. And now all of a sudden, you have

527
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: one of these good, radical revolutionary identities. And you get

528
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: brought to, you know, or if you're a child, to

529
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: clubs after school, like the Gay Straight Alliance now known

530
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: as a Gender Sexuality Alliance, and you get affirmed and

531
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: you get celebrated, and you get love bombed, and you

532
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 2: get dragged into this and you get taught that it's

533
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: a political identity that you have to It's not enough

534
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: to be LGBTQ. You have to be politically LGBTQ. It's

535
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: not enough to be As Aana Presley put it, she said,

536
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: that's a congresswoman said, we don't want any more blackfaces

537
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: who don't want to be black voices, and we don't

538
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 2: want any more brown faces who don't want to be

539
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 2: brown voices. What that means is you better be an activist.

540
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: It's not enough to look one way or another. You

541
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 2: have to be an activist. And this is the exact

542
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: same dynamic. This is the identity politics of Mao Zedong,

543
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: updated from socialist categories that would worked in nineteen sixty

544
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: six China to identity categories that work in twenty twenty

545
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: three America.

546
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: Quick commercial break more with James Lindsay, Well, why do

547
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,719
Speaker 1: you think the desire to be accepted is so strong,

548
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: because obviously none of these things would matter if there

549
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: wasn't this intense desire to fit in.

550
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Honestly, we're a social we're very very social entities.

551
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 2: People are not terribly good at being individuals, and I

552
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: don't necessarily think there's something wrong with that. It's literally

553
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 2: how we are. It is part of human nature to

554
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: seek the approval, to see ourselves and wonder how other

555
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 2: people see us, and to judge ourselves. This is actually

556
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 2: called psychosocial valuation in the psychological literature. To understand ourselves

557
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 2: and valuate ourselves as a good person or a bad person,

558
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: a valuable member of the community, essential or non essential

559
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: in the language of COVID, based upon how others might

560
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 2: perceive us. So it's very important to us to fit in,

561
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 2: and there's only this kind of weird fringe. About twenty

562
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: percent of the population that seemed not to care as

563
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: much about it and that will resist these kind of

564
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 2: heavy social pressures. So this is articulated in various ways

565
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 2: in the psychological literature. I've been banging a drum. I

566
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 2: don't know all social psychology theories. I kind of keep

567
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: at arm's length, but I've been banging a drum for

568
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: actually over ten years now, well before I started talking

569
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 2: a lot about woke about this theory in social psychology

570
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: called social identity theory. And I'm not claiming to buy

571
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: into all of social identity theory or any of this,

572
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: but I think that this concept of social identity that

573
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: we form an identity around a social group we perceive

574
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 2: ourselves to be a member of, and then we define

575
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: ourselves in terms of looking good and fitting into that

576
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: group very strongly, and we also define ourselves as part

577
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 2: of that in not liking those people who are outside

578
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: of that group. And so if we think of this

579
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: as a natural human tendency and one that can therefore

580
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 2: be driven like virtually any other one to access into madness,

581
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: I think we can see where this kind of desire

582
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 2: to fit in and identify through the class, especially when

583
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: it's hard to stand out, which I think is a

584
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: very important lesson and point in our present environment becomes

585
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: very strong and I think that it's the communists who

586
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: are oriented in the idea of developing literally a class consciousness,

587
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: whether that's economic class, racial class, sexual class, whatever. They

588
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: want you to be very conscious of which class you're

589
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 2: in and what it means to be in class solidarity.

590
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: They want you to think of yourself as a member

591
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: of a class before they think of you yourself as

592
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 2: a person. They even say that, By the way, Crenshaw

593
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: says that in our big paper called Mapping the Margins

594
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 2: about intersectionality, she says that there's a fundamental difference between

595
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: I'm a person who happens to be black and the

596
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 2: statement I am black. She says that the first one

597
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: makes a mistake of striving for personhood first, this idea

598
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 2: that there's this universal person you can be and you

599
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: happen to be some other category, whereas I am black,

600
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: she says, admits that that category is imposed upon you

601
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: and adopts the identity as what she calls a discourse

602
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 2: of resistance, which is obviously divisive. So they literally want

603
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 2: you to think in terms of class. They don't want

604
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: you to think in terms of individual and so they

605
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 2: can exacerbate that tendency to social identity, flare it up,

606
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,719
Speaker 2: and start turning it to kind of very zealous ends.

607
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 2: We see with this kind of activism and people just

608
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: screaming their heads off trans women or women, which is

609
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: like a rallying cry around the idea of whatever it

610
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 2: means to be trans as a class. But I think

611
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 2: it's humans are this way now. Just if I might ramble,

612
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: I said, it's when it's harder to stand out as

613
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: an individual, this becomes maybe more poignant, and that's important today.

614
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 2: We'll think about this like when you when we were kids.

615
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe you're a lot younger than I'm. Probably

616
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 2: you are, I don't know, thirty eight, Okay, so we're close.

617
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 2: So when we were kids.

618
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: Appreciate that though, yeah, but certainly.

619
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: When our parents were kids, right, So when our parents

620
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 2: were kids. This is unequivocal. If you say, picked up

621
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: the guitar and decided to play guitar, and you got

622
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 2: okay at the guitar, and you play maybe at church

623
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 2: or whatever, and you're like, wow, you know, you're the

624
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: least is great at guitar. You know, you're like a

625
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 2: big deal because you're great at guitar, and then you

626
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: get to go off to the state and you find

627
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: out that actually you're not that good at guitar. There's

628
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 2: these amazing other people ever, but you were like the

629
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: bee's knees And when you come home, you kind of

630
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: this nostalgic, you know, not real image, but you're still

631
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: the great guitarist of you know, po Dunk QSA, right,

632
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: and you're competing against that kind of local neighborhood. But

633
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: now you're competing against people on YouTube who do things

634
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 2: that I'm almost positive aren't humanly possible. I've watched some

635
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 2: of these guitarists or the gymnasts or the athletes on

636
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 2: the internet. I you know, it was a big thing

637
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 2: ten years ago. I'd watched these videos. My friend and

638
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 2: I like, let's go watch some motivational videos. Then we'll

639
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 2: go work out or whatever. And we'd watch them and

640
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 2: I started to notice and I said to him when

641
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: I was like, these are demotivational, Like I'm never going

642
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: to be able to do that, Like I just am fat.

643
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 2: There's no way that's happening. Like I'm never going to

644
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: climb a pole like that and stick off like a flag.

645
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:39,959
Speaker 1: Well not with that attitude, that's what he said.

646
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 2: But the truth is, I think it's just real, right

647
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 2: like I was in my thirties, like this isn't going

648
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 2: to happen. And so think about being like sixteen years

649
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: old and you've just picked up a guitar or whatever

650
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 2: for the first time, and you jump on YouTube and

651
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 2: there's all these tutorials and there's all these guys that

652
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: are so good at it, and you're super inspired, and

653
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 2: you figure out real quick that it's hard to play

654
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 2: a guitar at first, and yeah, there's great lessons, but

655
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 2: you're definitely never going to be like Alexander Misco or

656
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 2: no time soon, or you know, one of these guys

657
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 2: that you're watching that does these amazing things that inspired

658
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 2: you to pick it up in the first place. So

659
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: I think it makes it harder for people to feel

660
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 2: like they're standing out when they're competing not with their

661
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 2: town or the school or you know, the church, but

662
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 2: now they're competing against Instagram, which I think that this

663
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: is a I mean, we're tangential to kind of the

664
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 2: big point, but I think this matters with understanding why

665
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: so many young people are so susceptible to feeling like

666
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 2: they have to identify as something completely ridiculous like their

667
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 2: skin color or their genitals or something in order to

668
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: feel value.

669
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I agree in this sense of you know,

670
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: social media is what is sort of pushing this desire

671
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: to be accepted and also defining what is acceptable and

672
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 1: what is not, which too many young people are obviously

673
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: adhering to. You got into this a little bit, but

674
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: you know, there are obviously numerous quotes, numerous examples of

675
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: name the dictator who has highlighted how the youth are

676
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: important to controlling societies. Talk about a little bit further

677
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: with some of this trans issue, I worry that it's

678
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 1: a mechanism and a means to try to turn young

679
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 1: people against their parents.

680
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 2: It is, I mean, it certainly is. I'm sure it

681
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 2: has a multitude of uses, Like the pharmaceutical industry is

682
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: not crying about what's going on in the trans phenomenon

683
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 2: in any way whatsoever because they're making crazy money off

684
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: of it. But it certainly is a mechanism used to

685
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 2: is the same as MAO. So we're going to dip

686
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: back to MAO with that, which the goal with Mao

687
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: was that he had to overcome Confucian society, and like

688
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 2: rule numro uno in Confucian society is you know, thou

689
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 2: shalt not disgrace thy father. If you had to kind

690
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: of lay it down your father is like the you

691
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: never would insult your father. You would always try to

692
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: save face for your father. And so the goal was

693
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 2: very often say your father was what he called a

694
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 2: landlord or a bad influence or whatever, so he's got

695
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 2: a black identity. They give you a black identity. The

696
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 2: goal was to get you to denounce your father, which

697
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: is like a sin like throwing away your religion. In

698
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 2: the West, it'd be like blaspheming Christ if you're a Christian,

699
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: to denounce your father in Confucian society, and so this

700
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: wasn't something that was extremely emotional, extremely powerful, but the

701
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 2: goal was to split families if they the Confucian family

702
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,760
Speaker 2: organization was so strong and tight. And then the reports

703
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: of people who went through the brainwashing programs in China

704
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 2: and the revolutionary universities say Robert Lifton has written about

705
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: with many case studies. He says a lot of the

706
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 2: times it was actually family piety and family love that

707
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: stopped people from getting fully brainwashed into becoming communists under

708
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: now and fleeing, you know, to the West or Taiwan

709
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: or Hong Kong or somewhere else to get away because

710
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 2: that family is so powerful, and so Maw knew that,

711
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 2: and so he knew he had to break that apart,

712
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 2: and his identity politics were designed to give you reasons

713
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 2: to denounce your family. And now the same thing here.

714
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 2: The goal with the trans if you can pressure kids

715
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 2: into these sexualities, first of all, it becomes extremely important

716
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 2: to them. It's tapping into something very powerful in what

717
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: it means to be human. But then you tell your parents,

718
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 2: and they are first primed to believe they're told, they're

719
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: groomed to believe that their parents will reject them when

720
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 2: they do this, and then their parents often are at

721
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 2: least confused pan sexual what is that? Or they make

722
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: fun of them, or they tease them or whatever. And

723
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: this is designed to put wedges between children and their parents.

724
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 2: This is one hundred percent designed to do that, and

725
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 2: it's a very sophisticated mechanism they used. It's also maliced

726
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 2: because what they're trying to do is to get you.

727
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: The reason they want to wedge away from the family,

728
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 2: is that the family pulls them, would pull somebody away

729
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 2: from the cult. They want you to be in the cult,

730
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 2: and your family is a competitive that they have to destroy.

731
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 2: And so Mao framed this out with a formula he

732
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 2: said he created in nineteen forty two, which is called

733
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 2: unity criticism Unity. I think I talked about that in Europe.

734
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 2: He said that you start by creating the desire for unity,

735
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: the desire to fit in, the desire to in our

736
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 2: current parlance, belong. You want to make the environment inclusive,

737
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 2: so you want people to feel like they're included, and

738
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 2: then you engage in criticism and struggle. So that's the

739
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 2: middle part. After the people desire for belonging or unity,

740
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 2: you then induce criticism. The reason we don't have unity.

741
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: We would have unity, but some of you in here

742
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 2: are transphobic, so our trans friends can't feel included, they

743
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,959
Speaker 2: don't feel like they belong. So you have to fix

744
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 2: your transphobia so that everybody feels like they can belong.

745
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: And maybe you need to know some trans people. Maybe

746
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 2: you need to come to the club after school. Maybe

747
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 2: you need to form a gay straight alliance and get

748
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 2: to form what they call in the literature relationship allyship,

749
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 2: maybe you need to dip your toes in yourself to

750
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 2: ask yourself the questions. But you also need to criticize

751
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 2: your own transphobia, find out what's stopping you, et cetera.

752
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: And if that's your family's, you've got to criticize your

753
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 2: family too. And then what MoU says is on the

754
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 2: other side of his formula is you have what he

755
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: says unity on a new basis according to a new

756
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: standard that he called for him socialist discipline. But we

757
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: call a inclusive environment or inclusive school or inclusive society.

758
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: So we're going to have a new basis on sustainability

759
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 2: and inclusion to be more kind of complete to the

760
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 2: whole program. And it's the exact same model though, and

761
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 2: trans as any of the actually gender and sex stuff

762
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 2: is a very profound and powerful way to create very

763
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 2: dramatic wedges between children and their parents, and they have

764
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 2: to because the goal is to bring you into a

765
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 2: political activism cult that's meant to overthrow society, and the

766
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 2: family is literally standing in the way of that.

767
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 1: Well, what worries me as well is this all seems

768
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: to be coming at a time when critical thinking seems

769
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 1: to be on the decline as well, whether it be

770
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: because of the access and the ease of information with

771
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: everything being accessible online, or just lack of educations today's schools.

772
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: You know, there does seem to be a decline of

773
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:14,959
Speaker 1: just critical thinkers in America.

774
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,280
Speaker 2: Well, I think that there's a war against critical thinking,

775
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 2: and I think that we can actually trace that. We

776
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 2: can see it in the literature. Our education system uses

777
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 2: that phrase critical thinking a lot, but they're using it

778
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: in a quite disingenuous way because what they're doing is

779
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 2: they're conflating the idea of critical thinking with the idea

780
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 2: of critical theory through the word critical, which they are

781
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 2: using in two ways at once. So they can pull

782
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: this trick. They'll often say that we have to, you know,

783
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 2: enhance thinking critically or critical thought, but what they actually

784
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: mean is criticism. And there's a paper that's really actually

785
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 2: explicit about this that was published by a fairly influential

786
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 2: education theorist and whiteness scholar by the name of what

787
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 2: was her name, Alison Bailey. She published it in Hypatia

788
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,959
Speaker 2: in two thousand and seventeen or eighteen seventeen. I think

789
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 2: it's The paper is about a concept she invented called

790
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 2: privilege preserving epistemic pushback, which is a lot of words

791
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: that makes it really easy to find. If you want

792
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: to go find this article yourself, you can type in

793
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 2: privilege preserving epistemic pushback Bailey and you'll find it. So

794
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 2: Alison Bailey writes this paper, but she has this couple

795
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 2: of paragraphs and she says explicitly in them that critical

796
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 2: theory and critical thinking are not the same thing. And

797
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 2: she says it explicitly in the context of education that

798
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 2: critical education or critical pedagogy as she calls it, is

799
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: not the same thing as critical thinking. And she says,

800
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 2: here's what critical thinking is. It's about caring about things

801
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: like she's a philosopher, so the vocabulary is challenging, but

802
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: she says, it's caring about things like epistemic adequacy, knowing

803
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: what you know and how you know it. It's about

804
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 2: soundness and validity of arguments. It's about weighing the evidence.

805
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 2: It's about stepping back and you know, analyzing things objectively.

806
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 2: And she says the critical theory or critical pedagogy the

807
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 2: approach to education that is overwhelmingly dominant in our country

808
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 2: and has been now at least since the nineties, by

809
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 2: the way, so this is why the kids are not

810
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 2: so good at critical thinking. That they're not doing critical

811
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: thinking or training critical thinking, they're learning critical theory. And

812
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 2: she says that has a completely different set of assumptions.

813
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: It's based in what she says. She explicitly says the

814
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: neo Marxist Frankfurt school approach, and it is explicitly neo Marxist,

815
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 2: and it doesn't teach you to try to understand in

816
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 2: what we normally think of as a critical thinking way.

817
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,399
Speaker 2: It teaches you instead to analyze power structures and how

818
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: power structures are used to maintain people's power, privilege, and

819
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 2: advantage unfairly and unjustly, thus to create and perpetuate injustices.

820
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 2: She says that explicitly, and that what she's arguing for

821
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 2: is a shift away in education from the idea of

822
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 2: critical thinking evidence, you know, soundness and validity of arguments,

823
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: logical reasoning, and toward critical theory, which is analysis of

824
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: power and how it generates and maintains social advantages that

825
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 2: are unjust. And she says that she had one of

826
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 2: the reasons that the shift is necessary, is it critical

827
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 2: thinking itself is invoked in order to maintain power. In

828
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: other words, she's doing a critical theory analysis of critical

829
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 2: thinking and says that if we teach kids critical thinking,

830
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: what they're going to do. This is why it's called

831
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: privilege preserving epistemic pushback is when you say something to

832
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 2: them about racism or transphobia or whatever else, they'll use

833
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 2: critical thinking and say, maybe that's not logical. And what

834
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 2: they're actually doing, in her kind of demented worldview, is

835
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: defending what she calls their epistemic home turf. They don't

836
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 2: want to let go of their power. They aren't saying

837
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 2: it's not logical because it's really not logical. They're saying

838
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 2: it's not logical because they want to stay transphobic and racist.

839
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 2: And that's actually what she says explicitly in that paper.

840
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 2: So if we take that for granted, and we take

841
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 2: another Marxist education theorist, Isaac Gotdisman from Iowa State University

842
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 2: at his word. He says that by nineteen ninety two

843
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: our colleges of education were completely connected to and promoting

844
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,720
Speaker 2: critical pedagogy, then we can see exactly why critical thinking

845
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: has been on the decline. Where they tell us. We

846
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: have whitewashed education because they want to teach CRT to

847
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 2: fix that allegedly. The fact is we have red washed education.

848
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 2: We have education that's been washed over in communist revisionism,

849
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 2: leaving out the history of communism and its atrocities, leaving

850
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 2: out what communism is and why it's a problem, and

851
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: also teaching critical theory in place of critical thinking, so

852
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 2: that critical thinking can't be used to stop the critical theory,

853
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 2: which again Bailey made that explicit in this paper about education,

854
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,359
Speaker 2: written and publishing a high ranking feminist philosophy journal just

855
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 2: five six years ago.

856
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: Quick commercial break more with James Lindsay. James, how do

857
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: you define woke?

858
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 2: Having critical consciousness? So woke, obviously is a slaying term

859
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 2: that means woke up right or awake? And what are

860
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: you awake to a different consciousness of the world. So,

861
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 2: when you are unconscious and asleep, you're unconscious. When you

862
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 2: are awake, you are conscious. You have consciousness or your

863
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 2: consciousness has awakened, and so it refers to having what

864
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 2: they call critical consciousness. Well, this thing I just discussed,

865
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 2: called critical pedagogy, is defined specifically as education designed to

866
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 2: raise critical consciousness. It was created original. The term originates

867
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 2: for the most part with an educator from Brazil who

868
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 2: was a Marxist by the name of Palo Ferrari, and

869
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: Poalo Ferrari wrote a book called Pedagogy of the Oppressed,

870
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 2: And when I cited Goddessman a moment ago, it's specifically

871
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: Palo Ferrari's Pedagogy of the Oppressed that he said, by

872
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two had achieved its current place and status,

873
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 2: which is to say that it is in pride of

874
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 2: place everywhere. And so that's where that actual date and

875
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 2: remark came from. Is that the idea of using education

876
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 2: to do critical consciousness raising in that critical consciousness is

877
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 2: itself being woke. So, in other words, or education has

878
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 2: been retooled to be woke, has been firmly established in

879
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 2: college colleges of education since nineteen ninety two, is historically grounded.

880
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,760
Speaker 2: What it actually means, according to Ferrari, to be critically conscious,

881
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 2: in other words, to be woke, is that you understand

882
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: that the very terms of society are in fact corrupted

883
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 2: with the power dynamics of society. And so what you

884
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 2: have to do is learn to understand that every context

885
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 2: that you're in contains the various dehumanizing forms and what

886
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 2: he calls domesticating modes of being and learning, and they

887
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 2: have to be called out or denounced, as he puts it.

888
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 2: This is where this is parallel to where Mouse said

889
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 2: that the young people had to be awakened to a

890
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: socialist consciousness and destroy the four olds of society, which

891
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 2: is what they went around doing. So what it would

892
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 2: be is that racism's contained in everything, and it's your

893
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 2: job to learn to be able to see that and

894
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 2: call it out. Transphobia is contained in everything, and it's

895
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: your job to learn to be able to see where

896
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 2: it's hidden and call it out. And that's why we

897
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 2: see so many young people, especially in Brooklyn journalist jobs,

898
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 2: writing why air is racist, why trains are somehow transphobic,

899
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 2: why going outside is racist. It's because they've been trained

900
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: to have critical consciousness. And critical consciousness means believing that

901
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 2: the world is organized in this way. And whether we

902
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 2: pin that on Frairi, who is I think the progenitor

903
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: of the concept of certainly the first really big promoter

904
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 2: of the concept of critical consciousness and the idea that

905
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: education is geared for it, or we give it to

906
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 2: Max Horkheimer, who created critical theory. He said he created

907
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 2: the critical theory specifically because, in his view, the very

908
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 2: terms that society has written on in every sense, social, legal, etc.

909
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 2: Are corrupted by the systems of power, and therefore an

910
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 2: ideal society, he said, cannot be expressed on the terms

911
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 2: of the existing society. All we can do is identify

912
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 2: the problems in the existing society and denounce them. That's

913
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: what being woke is about, is thinking that there's a

914
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 2: the whole of society is corrupted by all of these

915
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 2: systemic evils, and that you can be trained to see

916
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 2: them and call them out. Marcusa another Herbert Marcusa, another

917
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 2: critical theorist from the mid part of the last century,

918
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 2: said very explicitly that the ideal society is contained within

919
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 2: the existing society. So if you can criticize all of

920
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: the excess off the outside, all the racism, transphobia, et cetera,

921
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 2: then the ideal society can emerge and blossom and fill in.

922
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 2: It's in there, but we've got to carve the racism off, etc.

923
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 2: It's almost like a sculptor, right, you have a statue

924
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 2: and starts as a block of marble. You want to

925
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 2: make it into a lion or something. So you get

926
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 2: a chisel and a hammer and you chip chip, chip, chip,

927
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 2: chip away, and it starts to look more and more

928
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 2: like a lion. And the sculptor says, well, I didn't

929
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 2: carve the lion. The lion was in there, and I

930
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 2: removed all the excess. They think that all these bad

931
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 2: things like racism and sexism and so on are the excess,

932
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 2: and if they can just carve those away, the perfect

933
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: society will be in the middle the lion. But in

934
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 2: their mythology, it's actually the myth of Pygmalion. If you

935
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 2: go back to the Greeks, the statue, when made perfect,

936
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 2: the existing society will come alive and the gods will

937
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 2: grant it life and it will live its own life. This,

938
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,919
Speaker 2: of course, is fiction. So what happens is they think

939
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 2: that they must not have got the statue perfect, and

940
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: they carve off more things, and they carve off more

941
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 2: things until there's nothing left. And that's why it's inherently destructive,

942
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: because the statue is never going to come to life.

943
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 2: But I've digressed quite a bit, but that's what woke means.

944
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 2: Woke means believing all that woke means believing that we

945
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 2: could have a perfect society if we just carved off

946
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 2: everything that is a problematic racism, sexism, and so on,

947
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,399
Speaker 2: by learning to see it in everything and calling out

948
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,919
Speaker 2: how it manifests, and handing over power to the people

949
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 2: who understand that, allegedly, because otherwise we'll just repeat the

950
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 2: same patterns.

951
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 1: But some people don't want to fight the culture war.

952
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: What's at steak everything? I mean, I really encourage people.

953
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: You know, people have seen. People have seen a lot

954
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: of either books or films.

955
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 2: About when the Nazis took over. This is a familiar phenomenon.

956
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 2: We know a lot less in the West in general

957
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 2: about what it was like after, say the Bolsheviks took

958
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 2: over in Russia, or Mao took over in China, or

959
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 2: Polepot took over in Cambodia. Although we know more about

960
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 2: that because of the movie The Killing Fields did get

961
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 2: some play. I actually ask audiences a lot in my

962
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 2: public talks, who's heard of this? Who's heard of that?

963
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 2: Who's heard of the Holidamore in Ukraine? Very few people

964
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 2: who've heard of you know, various Soviet things. Very few

965
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,479
Speaker 2: people who's heard of you know, the Great Leap Forward.

966
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 2: Very few people who has heard of the Killing Fields,

967
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 2: usually about half the audience, And I think that's because

968
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: there was a film, But we don't hear a lot,

969
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 2: We don't learn a lot about that. But what people

970
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 2: need to understand is that we are in that same story. Now,

971
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: we are under a cultural revolution, and what is at

972
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 2: stake is all of your liberty. The other side of this,

973
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 2: there will be very little liberty. All of your liberty

974
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 2: will be privileges granted for whatever good behavior or acceptable

975
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 2: behavior that you've demonstrated. All the freedoms that you've enjoyed

976
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 2: so far in your life are going to be taken

977
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 2: away from us. And we're going to live under a

978
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 2: totalitarian state that has absolutely no concern for us, like

979
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 2: we already talked about, and that may active actively hate us.

980
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 2: And so if you don't want to get involved, I understand.

981
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 2: I don't particularly like being involved myself. People ask me

982
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 2: how I got started. I say, I fell backwards into it.

983
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 2: And I think that's the story for a lot of people.

984
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 2: Other people they see what's going on and they say,

985
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 2: enough is enough. My friend Chris Elston, it goes by

986
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 2: Billboard Chris has that story. He said he heard about

987
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 2: puberty blockers. He had two young girls. He said, what

988
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 2: are puberty blockers? He said, he went to the internet

989
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 2: and he looked them up. Turns out there exactly what

990
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 2: they sound like. They are. They block your puberty causes

991
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 2: all these health problems. And he was like, not my girls,

992
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 2: not in this lifetime. This is child abuse. And he

993
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 2: started to stand up and do something about it. But

994
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 2: what's at stake is if you want I don't want

995
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 2: to go full or well and say, if you want

996
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 2: a vision to the future, imagine bootstamping on a human

997
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 2: face forever. I want to say, if you want a

998
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 2: vision of the near term future, you need to look

999
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 2: at what's going on in China with its social control mechanisms.

1000
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 2: And if you don't want to live in that world,

1001
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 2: you'd probably better start speaking up. If you think it's

1002
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 2: going to blow over, it's not. They've invested probably a

1003
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 2: trillion dollars or more into this project. They're not just

1004
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 2: going to give it away, and the big entities playing

1005
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 2: in it have trillions to win if it goes the

1006
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 2: way they want it to. They're not going to stop.

1007
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 2: They are all in at this point. So if you

1008
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 2: don't want to get involved, I understand, But unfortunately, if

1009
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 2: we want to be a little poetic about it in

1010
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 2: a way that I think is dangerous. History has visited

1011
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 2: this moment upon us and it wasn't ours to choose.

1012
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 2: But we have to take responsibility for where we are.

1013
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 2: This is a bid to transform the world into a

1014
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 2: global tyranny, and there's no reason to mince words around anymore.

1015
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 2: And if we don't speak up and do something about it.

1016
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 2: I encourage people to look at countries that are further

1017
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 2: along the path than we are. South Africa as an example,

1018
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 2: it's further along the path than we are. Especially with

1019
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 2: the critical race theory direction, China is the kind of

1020
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 2: model for what the first round of social control is

1021
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 2: supposed to look like. Whether that's through a vaccine passport

1022
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,240
Speaker 2: they didn't succeed in getting, whether it's creating digital ideas

1023
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 2: and currencies with a Everify or whatever else they're fooling with. Now,

1024
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 2: this is our future, and if you want your to

1025
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 2: have your freedoms, and you want your children and their

1026
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 2: children to have their freedoms, you had better start saying something,

1027
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 2: doing something, and doing something prudent and judicious about this

1028
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 2: something informed, starting to work together with other people who

1029
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 2: are are kind of you know, getting their feet under them,

1030
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 2: and doing a lot of things locally and primarily just

1031
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,800
Speaker 2: as long as I'm saying things people should do, bonding

1032
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 2: with your own children and to protect them from the

1033
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,320
Speaker 2: fact that the state is trying to break that bond.

1034
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: I've interviewed a lot of people for my podcast. This

1035
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: is one of the most interesting conversations I've had to date,

1036
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: So I truly appreciate your time and your voice and

1037
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: what is the most important fight that we're facing, both

1038
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: in America and just society worldwide.

1039
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I really appreciate that.

1040
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: That's very kind of you to say, thank you so

1041
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 1: much for taking the time. I really appreciate it.

1042
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I hope to talk again soon.

1043
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: That was James Lindsey. You know, look, I've interviewed a

1044
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: lot of people on this podcast, and I found that

1045
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: to be one of the more interesting conversations I've had

1046
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: to date. I hope you feel the same. I appreciate

1047
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: you guys listening to the show every Monday and Thursday,

1048
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: but you can listen throughout the week. Give us a review,

1049
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 1: Give us a rating. On Apple Podcast love looking at

1050
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: those What do you think? John Cassio, my producer, for

1051
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: putting the show together. Until next time

1052
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:00,080
Speaker 2: You