WEBVTT - Ep. 317: Super Slammin' with Tom Miranda 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.760 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.680 severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:23.360 You can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.840 versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:36.239 for every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer. Oh, 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.479 you know how I bought these glasses like five for 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.960 ten dollars as one of the eye doctor, not the 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:50.239 kind I needed. I need a point seven five magnification, 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:56.040 not a two. That's why it's like, really, he's getting 0:00:56.040 --> 0:01:00.280 me all hooked up? Man. Oh my vision, my normal vision, 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:07.440 long range um old as I am, and if I 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:12.080 put these special glasses he's getting me, I'll have Huh 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:14.720 that's what I have. Do you know what that means? 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:17.800 You know, I don't never know what it means. Your 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:22.360 one eye is better vision than you got the machine 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.360 on right now, machines on. Let me tell you what 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:26.920 it means. I didn't know what it meant either, until 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:35.280 he's no, It's like I didn't know what the numbers meant. 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:41.040 All the numbers mean is at twenty ft Okay, you 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.800 can see just as good as average people can see 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.840 at twenty that's all that means. I'm like, well, how 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.520 big is the average? Like, how big is the pool? 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:55.240 He said, it's like virtually infinite. Now thousands and thousands 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.960 of thousands of people have taken this vision test, so 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:03.360 just means you're job. Oh how can they never test 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.480 you above like to see if you're above the average? Well, 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.560 if I put on here's the thing, I have a 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.240 slight stigmatism in my left eye or something like that, 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:15.880 And if I put these superglasses on that he's gonna 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:23.800 get me meaning glasses, Um, they're big goggles. I will 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:28.079 be able to see the bottom line. Then Yeah, it's 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.840 the bottom line on the test. Listen, that's not what 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:34.239 it means. I will then have. I will then have 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:42.720 I will then have meaning you can read can see 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:48.240 at fifteen feet, I can see at twenty has nothing 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.320 to do with the line on the bottom. Is there 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.640 like a like an accredited like test to see how 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.120 far like you can actually go with that? It's like 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.080 the roor Shart test, but it's not. I feel like 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.440 every time I've ever been to like like an eye doctor, 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:03.280 they just do like the standard one. They're like, okay, 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:05.040 you can see good, like you never got to max 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:07.639 or out. Yeah, exactly. Remember my guy would do it. 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:09.639 He's nice, tell him to push it out. Remember when 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:11.560 they read the food pyramid a few years ago because 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:13.359 we were thinking, maybe we shouldn't just be eating nothing 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.120 but bread. Yeah, but let's let's rethink this. I think 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:20.440 they should rethink these eye tests. The food pyramid was 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.600 written by the dairy industry though, you know that whole 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.160 conspiracy theory that the dairy people are like, Listen, I 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.760 got an idea for a food pyramid. Put our stuff 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:34.320 on there up top, you know, well top top at 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.119 the part h Yeah, and I think Dair's near the bottom. See, 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.680 that's it was their idea. It was the dairy industry's idea. 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:41.720 That's a conspiracy theory. But I don't like to traffic 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:46.640 in those too much. Joined today by Tom Miranda that 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.760 works bowl hunter extraordinary well Tom Randon too. He became 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:54.280 famous for two things, like first became famous as a 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:58.200 trapper and then became famous as a bowl hunter. There's 0:03:58.200 --> 0:03:59.840 a little bit of cross over in there. There's a 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:01.520 lot across. It's not like you were like a famous 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:05.560 librarian and then became a famous bow hunter. I was 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.680 an infamous librarian. Actually, oh yeah, you know what, Tom 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.400 and I had drinks last night, not really not really 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:17.240 like beers um, even though we're both thirsty for your 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.760 drink um you have. He's like a rare book collector. 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:27.360 Absolutely yeah, and told me his story. I almost want later. 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:28.919 I almost want you to tell the story about the 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.720 captain cookbooks? Are you? Are you able to do that? 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:34.880 Because what if the guy hears and realizes what a 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:39.120 mistake he made? I think he's dead as a hammer there. Yeah, 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.640 he's got a rare book collection and he has narrowed 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:48.919 in on rare books about piracy. Sounds interesting. See, I 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:55.960 thought that tid laydon hell out of Spencer. That's also 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:57.520 we're gonna get it. We gotta cover a few things 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.240 that we're gonna get back into it. Um, tell me 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:05.599 about your archery, super slam holder. That's North America North 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.560 American twenty nine? Correct? So North America has twenty nine 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:12.159 big game species that's basically tracked by the Pope and 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.120 Young Club. And how do they break them out? Like 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:17.440 how many? How many like mule deer, black mule deear, slash, 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.280 black tail are on the list. Well, there's five deer 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.080 there's the white tail, the desert cows white tail. There's 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:26.120 the cowsman, not a cusman. You can be cus if 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:31.560 you want cows is correct. Uh, you also have sorry 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.960 about that. So so okay, okay, I interrupted you. I 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:35.800 shouldn't have done that. That's a backup. On deer. There's 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.600 five deer. There's five deer. There's the there's the white tail, 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.400 the desert white tail, there's the mule deer. There's the 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:44.160 Sitka black tail and the Columbia blacktail. There's spot deer. 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.240 I thought they like really Hayte and I were just 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.240 talking about this. I thought they really got into all 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:52.120 those kind of like goofy distinctions where they're like, you know, 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:56.000 like dividing up the country's white tails and stuff like that. 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:58.440 So it's pretty clean. Well, there's a white tail slam 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.360 where you can get you know, biologists say there's thirty 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:03.920 two plus different subspecies of white tails when you start 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:05.960 talking about it all. But you know, with all the 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.280 different programs, over all the years of seating deer here, 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.360 seating deer there, there's really not about They let them 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.440 all about it pretty much. Only the desert cow's white 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.920 tail is the purest deer of all of them, it's 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:23.560 it's isolated. Correct. Hit me with a couple of hit 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:25.040 me with the other ones. I wouldn't be thinking of 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.000 that during the twenty nine. How many cats are in there? Well, 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.120 just cougar, so they don't put up Mountain lion or something. 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.160 Bobcats not included, but they don't consider that big game. 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:36.960 How many how many bears are in it? There's four 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.000 polar bear, grizzly bear, Alaska brown bear, and black bear. 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:44.159 I'm still trying to add it up in my head. 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.000 You know, it would be a great trivia trivia question 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:51.960 for you, Spencer that something like based off that, I 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.560 might have something like that coming up. Is that right? Maybe? 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.120 Is it rigged? In? Tom's favorite? Not rigged? Do you 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.400 know what you're doing tribute with us today? I'll try 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.359 I'm game for anything. Did you listen just that little 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:05.760 prelude conversation we're having right now? I feel like you 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:10.520 might be in a unique position to win Sam Holder 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:15.400 and he's kind of checked out on taxonomy, checked out 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.520 on genetics a little bit. Uh, Okay, we're gonna come 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:21.920 back to all that bearwood us here. Still free to 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:23.720 chime in if anything happens, and you know about you 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:25.680 got me seat belt and roped into this chair. So 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:29.240 I don't think I'm going anywhere. Okay, we got a 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:33.120 double new launch we gotta talk about. So Jason Phelps 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.520 taken over at the Cutting the Distance podcast. So Jason 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.760 Phelps and friends, go there. If you already, uh, if 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.560 you already subscribe, what's the word for it, If you 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:47.200 already hasn't subscribe, if you already smashed that subscribe button, 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.520 I think that's right. If you've already smashed that subscribe 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.720 button for Cutting the Distance, it'll just serve right up 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.200 to you. If you haven't subscribed to Cutting the Distance, 0:07:57.680 --> 0:07:59.920 go do it now. So go where you know you're 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:01.920 listen to a podcast right now, So going to that 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.920 platform there and subscribe to Cutting a Distance and the 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.560 first Cutting the Distance with Jason Phelps and friends. I'm 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:13.560 on it talking all about turkey hunting. Also right now, 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.840 speaking of Phelps, we have a hot new limited addition 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:20.480 thing out. It's our line, one pot Call, our line 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:24.600 one Turkey Call. They're available, so you can hit pause. 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.040 You gotta make up your mind. You neither hit pause 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:29.640 and go do this or keep listening and go do 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:33.000 this depends how good you ared like doing something while 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.080 listening to something else, So pause or not. But go 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:38.080 to the meat Eater online store. So go to the 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.520 meat eater dot com and you know, follow all the prompts. 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.920 Get one of our sweet limited addition Turkey calls out 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.839 of the black walnut and the o stage orange trees 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:51.280 that that phelps and I felt we wound up with 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:56.040 about calls their numbered sequentially. Right, if you've been listening 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.280 to the show at all, you know the whole back 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.920 story here. Years ago, me and my old man. My 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.320 old man build a pole barn across the road from 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.200 this little parcel. He owned a cross road from our house, 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.000 so me and him my brothers built a pole barn there. 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:12.280 We had to cut down a couple of trees to 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.440 make room for the pole barn, and we got We 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.880 cut down some oaks and had them milled, and then 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.480 my old man stacked him up in the garage on 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.199 little stickers. What do you call that in the lumber 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:26.600 business when you dry them out, we always called stickers, 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.920 not pearl No, No, I think they always call them stickers. 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.480 Stickers stacked all of our planks up and they're just 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.000 rough planks, stacked them all on in the front of 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.199 the garage. Uh. And then later my dad died and 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:42.040 they were still sitting there, and eventually took them all 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.480 and cut him into like strips and made a big 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.920 workbench top and made my desktop out of them. So 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.600 I kind of liked that whole you know, it's an 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.679 interesting process to see. So I was telling Phelps, you 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:56.120 gotta go cut down a tree and see how many 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.880 turkey calls are hiding in there. Because these oak trees 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:04.720 had a work bench hiding in them. They had off 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.560 his desk hiding in him and probably could have made 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.440 three more deaths out of it. So we're talking about 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:12.400 how many are in a tree, how many pot calls 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.480 are in a tree? And we found uh. We went 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.320 to Kansas. We filmed this whole thing, and we're making 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.080 a video all about it. We went to Kansas and 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:21.440 picked out a walnut, a big black walnut tree, and 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.080 we picked out an o s age orange or a 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:27.440 boat dark and we got out of this walnut tree 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.280 and we kind of fetish eyes the walnut with drone. 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:36.040 You'll really get to meet the tree. D Oh, that's 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:41.959 how many was? Did you guys? We cut it down 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.760 in Kansas. Seth was there, he's eyewitnessed. Took it over 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:50.400 to Walnut, Kansas and milled it, sent that to Phelps's 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.400 place out in Washington where they killed, dried it, and 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:56.640 it wound up being out of that tree. I took 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.240 enough for a knife handle, enough for a couple of 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:04.280 knife handles. Um d pot calls were in that tree. 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:11.440 And that's like select grading. So we're selling. I took 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.640 one thousand and four their numbered. And what's funny is 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:16.199 we were trying to save number well, this is like 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.760 an incentive to purchasers. We were trying to save number 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:20.360 one for the guy that owned the walnut tree. He 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:25.960 want number one, but it got packaged. We got a problem. 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.560 He's like, I already gotta already gotta open up three 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:32.560 of these packages to find number one, or we do 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.679 something special for the guy who gave us the walnut 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:37.600 So we gotta figure out his His call is gone, 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.440 so someone's gonna make their order and get O one. 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:47.000 I took one somehow, Felps. I was like, semyone. Felps 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:52.200 sent me one thousand and four. That's my special. I 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.160 got one thousand and two. You got a better one 0:11:55.160 --> 0:12:01.760 than Uh. Yeah, they're available the line one pot call 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.040 and may you have you messed with it? Yeah, dude, 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.080 it sounds I was messing messing with it last night. 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:10.520 It's beautiful, Oh say geornge Peg. I like to point 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.320 out the Felts ruined one. Oh sa geornge remember that 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.880 what do you call that? High chaired it? Barbara Barbara, 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:21.000 Barbara chaired one like he notched it wrong and cut 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:22.920 it and split that thing ten ft into the air 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.880 and he had to go find another one. My my 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.280 feling was perfect, of course. The black walnut, Yeah, it 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.680 was good. Yeah. I was a black walnut expert guided 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.560 me through it. You'll see that in the video. So 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.520 those are out get him now. Like I said, it's 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:40.760 like so there. I think they're going to vanish in 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:43.400 a real hurry um. But man, they're gorgeous. They come 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.400 to Sweet Box. It's it's very it's like a it's 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:52.280 like a collector's item. Um. Moving down, oh Chester, ke Phillison, First, 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.440 can you start out by what's going on with your shirt? 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:59.040 This is a Schmidty's oor House, which is a local 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.960 watering hold back on Lake Winnebago. That's where I grew 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:08.440 up in Wisconsin and it's it's a sturgeon spirit swash 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:18.920 it No, it sounds Wisconsin schmidtys. Anyway, this place is 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:23.559 right on the shores of Lake Winnebago, which every year 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:28.800 in February, thousands and thousands and thousands of people gather 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:31.880 and they do this thing called Sturton Spirits. I'd like 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:36.520 to challenge you on that. Thousands. So there's already multiple 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:41.680 thousands and thousands, so there's more multiple thousands and thousands. 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:47.280 Well that's just so that's a minimum of six thousand individuals. Well, yeah, 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.800 we say things like that in Wisconsin, so take it 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:55.000 with a grain of salt. Anyways, there's twelve roughly, and 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.160 I don't know the numbers so but I think roughly 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:03.560 twelve thousand tags sold this year. Sold. More could have 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.960 been he could have said three more times, but obviously 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.040 all twelve thousand people are not out there. Spirit. But 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.000 how long is the season. It's a quota season, so 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.160 it just depends. It could be closed already, which it's not. 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:18.560 It's still open right now. You're like, this is this 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:20.800 is up to day information as of this record up 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:26.120 today Tuesday, day four. It says on the Winnibago system, 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.680 total sturgeon spirit is five and nine. What's the quota? 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:38.000 Um three yea they went on no um. I don't 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.760 know it just it depends because there's like certain number 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:46.960 of juvenile females, adult females and males, and they'll shut 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.120 the season down when they hit that quota if they 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.000 hit and it has certain it's like that there's like 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:56.000 a fisher unit where it's a five fisher quota, but 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.760 it's a one female. It all ends with one female. Yeah, 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.680 because you can't really tell when they're down there, um 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:06.080 what they are. But but they give out twelve hundred 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:11.560 individuals or twelve hundred sheds Shandy's twelve thousand tags twelve. 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.880 I was like, man, okay, I see twelve thousand people 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.400 get a crack at filling a quote that's sub one 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:23.880 thousand fish probably correct. And so you basically, I mean, 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.480 if you were to show up on Lake Winnebago, there'd 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.920 be road systems everywhere, there would be ice shanties as 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.840 far as the eye can see, and you're trying to 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.840 spear one of those fish, which is like the odds 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.080 are like, you know, it's like a very small percentage 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.160 of the people that spear those fish. Yeah, but you 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.240 run with an elite group of hard players because according 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:49.600 to the pictures you just said, I mean, you guys 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:51.480 are tearing it a new one out there. I run 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:56.440 with my cousin and he is a scouting fool. He 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.240 drives out, you know, weeks prior to this season, and 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.640 there's certain things he's looking for, like feed, like food. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:08.480 Well this worm stuff. Um looking for shad, gizzard shad, 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.280 which is a terrible year on the Winnebago system for 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:15.800 gizzard chad. Um, it's a poor year for from what 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.600 I've heard, for the red worms, which is a lake 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:22.880 fly larva as well. Um. But the sturgeon our bottom feeders, 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.840 so they're just in the muck. They have these long 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.960 mouths that will stick in the muck and they'll mill 0:16:30.080 --> 0:16:35.600 through there um and eat stuff that has fallen in 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:40.000 the mud basically. Um. So what you do is um 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.880 night before the season, we call it cutting in. So 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.040 we take a chainsaw and we cut a hole that's 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:51.160 about probably four ft by six ft into the ice 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.240 and then you take these It's too big to lift 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.840 it out, so you've got to push it under the ice, 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:00.480 and we call it sink in the cake. So you 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.480 take that slab of ice that you cut around and 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.240 you push it down and you sink it and you 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.960 push it away from your hole, and then you back 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.000 up your ice shack, which is ours. Is like a 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:18.760 nice metal ice shack um with heat and heat and propane. 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:20.520 You guys, ever worry that the fish is gonna bang 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.080 his head on that cake you sunk down there, This 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.880 is what I mean if he's cruising a real fast attention. 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:31.199 This is crazy that you say that, Steve, So no, 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:36.320 you would never think that. Right. Anyways, I'm going to 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:38.440 back up just a little bit before I get there. 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:40.639 So what you do is you cut that hole, you 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.280 back up your shack on it, and the actual frame 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:48.000 that is of that trailer is on a hinge, so 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.840 you can lower it down to the ice. The ice shack, 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.000 you can lower it right down to the ice. You 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:58.480 shovel snow around it. It's really dark in there, and 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:00.760 then you, you know, shut the doors and you look 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.000 down the hole and see what your clarity is. We 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.200 could not see bottom very well, so we lowered some 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:10.840 white siding down and it's an X on a string 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:13.960 down to the bottom of the lake, and that gives 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.480 you you can barely make it out, but at least 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.679 you can see bottom a little bit and get a 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:23.080 reference of where you might want to throw if fish 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.520 comes through. We spear off cameras, so we lower like 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.600 a Markham camera down or awkwa view camera down so 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.840 you can see around you. Um, it would be very 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:36.639 difficult to spear one if we didn't have that. You 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:40.280 have to in that depth of water. But that's where 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:43.720 the sturgeon were. It's a very controversial thing whether you're 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:48.280 spearing with cameras or not. There's some traditional traditionalists that 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.520 aren't happy about that. When you say spear of the camera, 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:58.679 you mean only off the camera, yes, Um, like, I mean, 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.080 I don't understand that. So this is what I'm getting 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:05.160 at by that sturgeon potentially bumping his head on the 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.040 cake that you sunk, that's sitting up on top tips, 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.399 so we are only expecting to most likely spear that 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.520 surgeon on the bottom. When we're using cameras, you can 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:16.439 look down the hole and you can't. You might be 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.280 able to make out a surgeon if it swims right 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:21.600 over your ex and all you would see is a 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.800 little black mark. But typically we're on camera and that 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.720 camera is facing your ex and you do your We 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.399 have a TV up there so we can watch the 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.199 screen and you'll see a fish swim through and you 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:40.199 you kind of are almost it's an educated guess on 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.879 where you're throwing because you're looking at that camera and 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:45.640 you're like, I think he's on the edge of that X. 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:49.719 I'm kind of opposed to this. And sure, I mean 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.160 I could see that guy in Texas that would lie 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:56.240 to log in and shoot deer, but they made it. 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.800 You can't do that. I mean, if you were there, 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.200 he's not spearing from Antana spirit off screen. Yeah, but 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:08.159 he's there, so you won't be out of those twelve 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:12.760 thousand tags. Steve, it's like, you know, five nine were 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:17.880 speared over the last four days, very low odds. Um 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:23.040 that's his party was spearing and left and right. So 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.600 there are guys that will go like thirty some years 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.840 and not spear of fish and they're mainly spirit. They're 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:32.000 mainly not getting fish because they're not using cameras. On 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:38.000 a clear water year, they may get one. Yes, Chester Chester, 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:42.440 what about what about what about like tech fish sonars? 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.879 When you're when you're sitting there perch fishing that stuff. Okay, 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:48.840 I feel like this is very analogous to that man 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.520 or with those what do you call the live scope 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:54.840 live scope or something. Yeah, that's true. I do feel 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:56.760 a little guilty doing that, but like it. All I 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.680 can tell you is it's very hard to spere Surgeon, 0:21:00.000 --> 0:21:02.960 and even with cameras, you gotta put weeks in of 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:09.040 scouting and like it's his heart. So going back to 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.800 that my favorite you here a guy named Shakespeare. Yes, 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:20.040 he's got a line on doth protest too much? M hmm. Okay, 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:23.520 so he hits his head on the block. Sturgeon hits 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:24.919 his head on the black. I don't know what that 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:31.879 means either, chick. Uh. So my family spared to Sturgeon 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:37.280 over the four over three days, the opening day and Sunday, 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.560 my cousin Jake speared one off camera. I was there 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:43.040 with him. Is Jake who speared one with the honest 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:48.040 I was. I was so Jake, my cousin spared one 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:51.119 opening day. He hadn't gotten one in like I don't know, 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:53.359 four or five years, not even using the camera. He 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:56.600 used the camera, he saw it, pushed it under the 0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:03.680 ice and somehow hit it. Just yep, they missed that day. 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:08.200 To my other brother missed second day. We're sitting there. 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.800 I'm sitting with my brother Ike and his girlfriend and 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.920 he misses and he's all bummed, which is pretty typical. 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:21.000 And it's twenty minutes missing. Missing is like has the 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:23.960 thing to happen? Yeah, very off camera. It's like most 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:25.880 of the time you're gonna miss. When you say off 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:29.560 camera mean on camera. On camera, Yep, that could get confusing. Yeah, 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:33.600 sorry about that. So yeah, on camera, fish are very 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:37.560 easy to miss. But we're sitting there's twenty minutes before 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:40.480 it closes at one pm every day, so the quota 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:43.680 doesn't it close at one so people have to check 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:45.640 in their fish by a certain time so they don't 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:48.560 go over the quota. So it's twenty minutes before the 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:54.080 season closes and we're sitting there and I goes, or 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:59.760 Tatum goes. Who's that his girlfriend? Tatum t a t 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:06.640 will Yeah, Tatum goes and it goes and I look 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:10.280 at the screen and see nothing, So I'm like, what 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:12.959 the heck? And I looked down and there is a 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:18.680 sturgeon a foot under the ice right where that cake 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:22.000 is you know, it didn't hit its head on the cake, 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:26.320 but it's a foot under the ice, and it's you know, 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:29.240 I gotta get the I gotta pull up. How long 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:33.160 it is right now? It's sixty eight inches long, seventy 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:38.280 four three pounds or seventy three point four pounds, and 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:41.359 which is like a big fish, but not huge. But 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:44.399 when you see that thing sneak up on you a 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:48.360 foot under the ice, it's the most surprising thing. It's 0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:51.159 like zero to but it's like right under. I mean, 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:53.280 it's like if it's shot straight up and come out 0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:55.720 of the hole. Well it's off to the side a 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:59.520 little bit um and I could. I want to give 0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:01.720 all the details, but it would just be too long. 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:05.960 There was a crack, a big fourteen ft long crack 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:09.200 that opened up right next to his check that wasn't 0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:12.359 there the first day. I believe that that sturgeon was 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:16.520 following that crack because it came along and it was suspended, 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:21.720 which they they never that never happens. So he sits there, 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:26.359 grabs his spear and kind of under the ice, but 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:29.439 just jabs the heck out of it. I didn't think 0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:31.760 he was going to give it enough oomph. But he 0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:35.480 hit that thing hard, just a perfect shot. And once 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:39.040 you spare a sturgeon like that closely ice, it's chaotic. 0:24:39.400 --> 0:24:42.920 You've got decoy lines down, You've got another line down 0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:47.639 holding your siding X, You've got your camera line down. 0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:50.920 He's trying to hold onto this rope and this big 0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:54.919 seventy pound fish is fighting. I'm sitting there trying to 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:57.600 pull all this stuff out of the hole, and Ike's like, check, 0:24:57.720 --> 0:25:00.399 nobody cares about that stuff right now. Just get gaff. 0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:04.120 So I get the gaff. He gets a fish up. 0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:07.199 I gaff it, and you know it's just hooting and 0:25:07.280 --> 0:25:12.520 hollering and very rare, you know, to spear sturgeon. Uh. 0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:16.199 I speared one on the fur hat Ice tour that 0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:18.680 Meat Eater did with my family a couple of years ago. 0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:22.880 So you can go watch that spearing dinosaurs. Spearing dinosaurs. 0:25:23.520 --> 0:25:27.280 He's a he is a what whoever edited the Meat 0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:30.000 Eater one? They called him a lucky bastard and they 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:33.200 find that to be pretty true. So then we took 0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:35.560 it to Smitty's or house and had a couple of years. 0:25:37.520 --> 0:25:39.000 That's a good way to bring it full circle back. 0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:42.359 I wish you'd pick me up one of those shirts. Chester. 0:25:43.280 --> 0:25:45.080 I gotta get you one, and you need to come 0:25:45.119 --> 0:25:47.040 back there. I know you're putting in for the uproar. 0:25:47.280 --> 0:25:48.960 Me and Yanni are in big time on the draw 0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:52.960 every year. Man, we're accumulating bonus points on Sturgeon. Uh 0:25:53.040 --> 0:25:54.959 here's what we're touched on real quick. It's just it's 0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:58.159 so upsetting to me. We all the time have video 0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:00.840 game people. I'm probably gonna want to regretting this later 0:26:00.880 --> 0:26:03.720 if I just want to cash in fields video game person. 0:26:04.400 --> 0:26:06.119 Video game people are always trying to get us to 0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:12.520 like collaborate on a video game. Zero interest in that, zero, Sorry, Phil, 0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:16.480 I really wanted to play as Steve. Oh yeah, like 0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:20.080 to do a video game anyways. Now there's like a metavert, like, 0:26:20.119 --> 0:26:23.760 you know, Facebook change his name to meta Yeah, why 0:26:23.760 --> 0:26:25.520 did they do that? Because you're gonna get into all 0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:27.600 this virtual reality stuff where you make up it's like 0:26:28.400 --> 0:26:30.919 you make up a little thing. You know, people like 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:35.120 make up those little emoji people versions of themselves. Yeah, okay, 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:39.800 imagine you make one of those that right, No, imagine 0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:43.120 you it's imagine you had one of those. But that's 0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:45.640 how you lived your whole life. You stay in your 0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:48.440 house and you're like, I'm going to go to a concert, 0:26:48.720 --> 0:26:50.960 and then you put on goggles in your little emoji 0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:54.120 person goes to a concert and it seems like you're 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:56.480 at a concert. I know there was what you're looking 0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:58.520 through a screen. There are some Super Bowl commercials that 0:26:58.520 --> 0:27:02.520 were like live this happy virtual life. Everybody's very excited 0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:04.359 about this stuff. They're very excited that you can just 0:27:04.400 --> 0:27:09.720 sit at home and be a total loser and be 0:27:09.920 --> 0:27:13.640 just a pathetic loser at home, and you could look 0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:16.320 as good as you want. You could have everything you 0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:19.280 should have had, and you go and interact and make 0:27:19.400 --> 0:27:22.480 like virtual friends and live in the metaverse. Apparently, like 0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:25.280 Zuckerberg is very excited about it. You can change his 0:27:25.320 --> 0:27:28.280 whole outfit to meta. You can buy virtual real estate. 0:27:30.320 --> 0:27:33.159 Is that is that Fahrenheit one with like the Lazy 0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:36.560 Boy in the Seashell you know where where where, Like 0:27:37.200 --> 0:27:39.600 it's it's either that or it's, uh, well, I forget 0:27:39.640 --> 0:27:43.879 what it was, but it's a very famous novel. And 0:27:43.920 --> 0:27:45.720 the whole thing is like they have all these folks 0:27:45.800 --> 0:27:47.840 that are just like plugged in with what they describe 0:27:47.880 --> 0:27:51.280 as like a little seashell earpiece and they're just hanging 0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:54.359 out in these like lazy boys basically and like just 0:27:54.440 --> 0:27:58.880 existing in that virtual reality. I think you're thinking about, um, 0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:04.800 that movie Wally. No, No, I'm gonna look it up. 0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:09.119 Uh yeah. Anyhow, they of course they now have a 0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:14.040 hunting version, but it's like, uh yeah, it's like a 0:28:14.240 --> 0:28:18.520 it's like built on a blockchain technology. Hunting versions, Hunting 0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:22.320 metaverse come on a lot of n f T s. 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:24.920 You know, someone in our universe has a character on 0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:27.080 one of these games. That's great. I don't care. Okay, 0:28:27.240 --> 0:28:33.160 who's this. Yeah he's into it or not. I don't 0:28:33.200 --> 0:28:34.800 know if he's into it. Might just do one of 0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:37.639 those things people do because they're like, man, it's not 0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:43.000 a bad deal. Um, I don't know, are you in 0:28:43.040 --> 0:28:48.680 one time a negative ghostwriter? If you want to do 0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:51.720 something for yourself by our book Outdoor Kids, An Inside World, 0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:54.600 that book is going to become more important than ever 0:28:54.720 --> 0:28:59.719 once everybody moves into the metaverse. Yeah, I agree, I'm 0:28:59.760 --> 0:29:02.040 gonna I'm gonna sell that book packaged with a hammer 0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:07.760 where you can smash a bunch of that ship and 0:29:07.880 --> 0:29:12.440 read the book. Outdoor Kids, An Inside the World available 0:29:12.480 --> 0:29:14.920 for pre order now. Books tearing it up on preorders. 0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:19.920 It's the it lays out the case for having your 0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:28.160 kids and your family become radically involved with nature. Moving down, 0:29:28.160 --> 0:29:30.760 oh quick questions. Someone wrote in with can you get 0:29:30.800 --> 0:29:32.600 trick noses? If you're cleaning a bear and get the 0:29:32.640 --> 0:29:35.000 blood all over you and you have an open wound 0:29:35.080 --> 0:29:37.000 on your skin? Can you get tricked from it? Uh? 0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:41.280 Like it has to go through your stomach, It doesn't. 0:29:41.280 --> 0:29:46.080 You're like stomach acid have to digest. Yeah, you gotta 0:29:46.080 --> 0:29:48.200 get like a certain number. You gotta get some amount 0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:50.520 of the cysts in your stomach, and your stomach acid 0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:52.479 liberates the cyst. Then it has to go through your 0:29:52.520 --> 0:29:56.680 vascular system. But you're just messing around with bear meat 0:29:56.680 --> 0:29:58.360 and bear blood isn't gonna do it. Are there like 0:29:58.440 --> 0:30:01.360 super long term effects of like that happening to you? 0:30:01.920 --> 0:30:05.120 It can attack your heart and screw up, but it's 0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:07.600 very rare. But when I had it, That's what I 0:30:07.640 --> 0:30:10.480 was reading about, is like the cases where people get 0:30:10.480 --> 0:30:12.719 it bad as they get too much that that that 0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:16.000 parasite load gets too heavily into the muscle, the heart muscle. 0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:18.720 Do you have any idea like what your specific load 0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:21.680 kind of was or if like you're the severity of 0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:24.400 your case. No, but the meat I ate had um 0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:30.800 a half million sists per pound. If you if you 0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:35.080 sat down and ate a sixteen ounce pot rolls half 0:30:35.120 --> 0:30:40.120 a million sists loaded. Because they the CDC came and 0:30:40.120 --> 0:30:41.800 got a chunk of my bear meat and hauled it 0:30:41.840 --> 0:30:44.000 down to Atlanta to their lab, and that's what they get. 0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:49.440 That's what they came back to me with. UM. You know, 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:52.160 everybody's always trying to end bobcat hunting and lying hunting 0:30:52.200 --> 0:30:53.800 here and there my home. This makes me proud to 0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:59.760 be a Michigander. They're increasing as bobcat numbers continue to climb, 0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:07.920 they're expanding longer seasons, more units. The bobcat is firmly 0:31:08.000 --> 0:31:15.200 re established itself. UM good connectivity among units. So they're 0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:20.640 opening up hunting and trapping opportunities in Michigan for bobcats 0:31:20.680 --> 0:31:25.040 in order to meet the good news of bobcat numbers 0:31:25.320 --> 0:31:30.040 doing great, still recovering from like the Timber Boom when 0:31:30.040 --> 0:31:32.040 they logged live and piss out of that state and 0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:35.800 killed all the wildlife off. As we recover it, people 0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:39.800 are rewarded with expanded opportunities. Anything to think about, that spencer. 0:31:39.880 --> 0:31:42.280 Did you see any there when you were a kid? No, 0:31:42.320 --> 0:31:45.440 but I uh, the first bobcat, yes, but not down 0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:47.400 where I lived. The first time I heard of a 0:31:47.440 --> 0:31:49.880 bobcat where right where I lived was actually on a 0:31:49.920 --> 0:31:53.640 farm where I would trap fox and raccoon, and the 0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:56.040 farmer's nephew was sitting in his tree stand and saw 0:31:56.160 --> 0:32:00.760 to bobcats together. That was the first ordered and that 0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:03.880 was in the nineties, the first reported incident anywhere near 0:32:03.960 --> 0:32:08.760 my home of bobcats. You could catch one bobcat a 0:32:08.840 --> 0:32:11.600 year north of us, but we never focused on it 0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:14.120 because they were only worth bucks because they're not like 0:32:14.160 --> 0:32:17.360 the Western cats. Western cats right now, even though for 0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:19.600 prices are super down, someone just sent me a text 0:32:19.680 --> 0:32:21.320 last night that they just sold a bunch of their 0:32:21.360 --> 0:32:25.280 cats for four bucks. Wow. So spiking up not where 0:32:25.280 --> 0:32:28.600 it was a few years ago. But Hi, these articles 0:32:28.600 --> 0:32:31.400 on our website One State might expand bobcat hunting and 0:32:31.400 --> 0:32:34.160 trapping Season two talks about the future of Michigan seasons. 0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:36.040 Tell me the headlining, and I think I feel like 0:32:36.120 --> 0:32:38.520 that could have been written better. One State might expand 0:32:38.600 --> 0:32:43.400 bobcat hunting and trapping seasons. So that's a pissport headline 0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:47.600 one state might it just doesn't have like a real 0:32:47.720 --> 0:32:50.920 like you know what I mean. Well, it's it's in 0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:53.320 the context of we've recently covered how a lot of 0:32:53.360 --> 0:32:57.520 other states to go in the other direction, like Arizona, Colorado, California, Illinois, Indiana. 0:32:58.040 --> 0:33:01.440 So when you see this on Facebook page, you're like, well, 0:33:01.680 --> 0:33:03.640 who's doing that? Yeah? What I do like about it? 0:33:03.680 --> 0:33:06.080 Krinn and I were emailing, or Krin was emailing me 0:33:06.360 --> 0:33:10.880 this morning about the opposite, like, I guess it's underselling 0:33:10.880 --> 0:33:16.720 an article is okay, But Krinn was talking to an anthropologist. 0:33:18.200 --> 0:33:21.360 Krinn and him, we're emailing about a headline that came out, 0:33:21.440 --> 0:33:25.280 and he was saying that the science when when popular 0:33:25.360 --> 0:33:32.280 news journals, popular news sources cover anthropology archaeology, they often 0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:37.880 oversell and try to create these sort of fantastical headlines 0:33:38.320 --> 0:33:42.400 out of something that the science just doesn't support. So recently, 0:33:42.480 --> 0:33:47.720 like it was this article, perhaps Neanderthal's didn't suffer a 0:33:47.840 --> 0:33:52.400 dramatic kill off, right, And he's like, I'm not aware 0:33:52.400 --> 0:34:01.200 of anyone who felt that they did. A guy on 0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:05.280 Wyoming just got busted for selling poached game meat, and 0:34:05.280 --> 0:34:07.400 it's funny he wasn't even selling it as game meat. 0:34:07.440 --> 0:34:09.759 He's shooting meal deer and antalopen quite a few of 0:34:09.800 --> 0:34:16.719 them and selling his organic beef jerky. He also they 0:34:16.719 --> 0:34:19.800 had suspicions about this dude, and this dude sells access 0:34:19.840 --> 0:34:23.399 on his ranch for three bucks. So some undercover game 0:34:23.400 --> 0:34:26.279 wardens form Wyoming booked themselves a couple of days of 0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:29.520 hunting on his ranch, and as they're wanting around, they 0:34:29.640 --> 0:34:35.319 noticed like burn piles full of carcasses, red flag. He's 0:34:35.320 --> 0:34:38.319 so secretive that he tells the undercover wardens what he does. 0:34:41.760 --> 0:34:44.239 What I do you see? I shoot antalopen deer and 0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:47.400 sell it as organic beef jerky And they're like, you 0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:51.719 know what? Say So they were able to put a 0:34:51.719 --> 0:34:54.080 pretty solid case against him. And did you hear like 0:34:54.120 --> 0:34:58.320 got the ball rolling on this. His ex girlfriend tattled 0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:01.799 on him. Go figure her. I didn't see that. His 0:35:01.880 --> 0:35:06.640 ex girlfriend told girlfriend, I know what great saying about that, 0:35:06.680 --> 0:35:12.160 but I can't say it's too dirty. I'm dying to know. 0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:15.239 It's the blank and you get for the blank, and 0:35:15.280 --> 0:35:30.279 you got I think we get it. Okay, let's be 0:35:30.440 --> 0:35:32.520 a law enforcement We're gonna hand it. We're gonna hand 0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:34.479 it over to our very own Katie Hill, who's gonna 0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:40.240 lay out our first ever inaugural Meat Eater investigates. She's 0:35:40.239 --> 0:35:44.759 like Bob Woodward. That's the compliment of Essentially, she's the 0:35:44.840 --> 0:35:47.719 Bob Woodward of the of the wild of the wildlife world. 0:35:48.840 --> 0:35:52.160 Thank you. So I wrote this story about finding Saga 0:35:52.280 --> 0:35:57.640 antelope porn's for sale on major online retailers UM, Amazon 0:35:57.960 --> 0:36:01.560 at c an eBay, and I found out how you're 0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:04.360 searching for him. Yeah. I it's kind of a strange story. 0:36:04.400 --> 0:36:07.919 So I was working for a different like international conservation 0:36:08.239 --> 0:36:11.400 media outlet, and Katie now works for us. She's toil 0:36:11.480 --> 0:36:19.319 team Yes in the trenches, plug plug the article to do. Yeah. 0:36:19.360 --> 0:36:23.160 So the article is called major online retailers acted as 0:36:23.200 --> 0:36:27.160 black market for endangered animal parts. Great writing from Katie 0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:30.040 and a great graphic from our own hunter Spencer. This 0:36:30.080 --> 0:36:32.319 is Katie's first time on the podcast. Yeah, I didn't 0:36:32.320 --> 0:36:37.799 do a good job setting out all it's covered now, thanks. Yeah. 0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:39.960 So I first found out about Sigo when I was 0:36:40.000 --> 0:36:43.960 working for a different uh conservation outlet run by a 0:36:44.000 --> 0:36:47.560 bunch of banc guys, and I was trying to I 0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:50.040 was building like a Twitter and Instagram profile for them 0:36:50.040 --> 0:36:53.680 and trying to populate those profiles and C Boone and Crockett. Yeah, yeah, 0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:56.880 trying to kind of build up the two profiles to 0:36:56.920 --> 0:36:59.319 make them actually something you know, worth looking at. And 0:36:59.400 --> 0:37:03.080 I found out a saiga and pretty shortly after, you know, 0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:05.720 it doesn't take long to figure out that they're super 0:37:05.840 --> 0:37:08.480 endangered and they have like a long history of endangerment. 0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:13.480 They're kind of all over like the Eurasian step grasslands. Also, 0:37:13.600 --> 0:37:18.240 their horns are used pretty heavily in like traditional Chinese 0:37:18.280 --> 0:37:23.680 medicinal practices, and so their horns are now kind of 0:37:23.719 --> 0:37:29.399 considered one of those taboo international wildlife trafficking issues. Kin 0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:34.800 nodded knowingly when you said that, I didn't are you familiar? 0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:41.120 Oh that was that kind of like it was like 0:37:41.239 --> 0:37:47.600 your nod was more like a dozen surprise. Um yeah, 0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:51.480 So my sick, twisted brain like decided that I was 0:37:51.520 --> 0:37:53.760 going to see how long it would take to find 0:37:53.800 --> 0:37:56.600 some online, like you know what you have to descend 0:37:56.680 --> 0:37:59.040 into like the bowels of the internet to find this 0:37:59.120 --> 0:38:02.440 stuff for like where would it crop up on the 0:38:02.480 --> 0:38:08.000 Silk Road or exactly. Um, so I just fired a 0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:12.720 simple Google search sygo horn for sale, and the first 0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:16.360 search result came from Amazon. It was like, it was 0:38:16.440 --> 0:38:21.960 like no freaking white exactly. Yeah, and you can imagine 0:38:21.960 --> 0:38:24.640 what this is done to like my suggested search items 0:38:24.640 --> 0:38:30.440 on Amazon now like so um, I it was it 0:38:30.600 --> 0:38:34.000 was a lot. At first. The first natural thought was like, well, 0:38:34.360 --> 0:38:38.799 there's no way these are real. And also, like made 0:38:38.800 --> 0:38:41.040 a point in the article that they don't really look 0:38:41.080 --> 0:38:43.560 like SiGe horns. They're like lacquered really heavily, and they're 0:38:43.600 --> 0:38:46.000 black um and cigo horns are more of like a 0:38:46.000 --> 0:38:48.759 camel color. So it's kind of hard to tell if 0:38:48.760 --> 0:38:52.040 they're legit or not. But so I went to this 0:38:52.200 --> 0:38:55.920 store on Amazon. They were one pair was about like 0:38:55.960 --> 0:38:58.080 two thirty five and one pair is like to ten. 0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:02.520 Katie had screen shots of all of these listings in 0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:04.680 the article two Yeah. Then I went to the store 0:39:04.719 --> 0:39:07.000 because I was like, well, what else is this guy selling? 0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:09.520 It was listed to the guy was listed in Russia, 0:39:10.120 --> 0:39:15.200 and the store was full of mounts, pelts, full body mounts, 0:39:15.239 --> 0:39:18.560 shoulder mounts, of just a really eclectic mix of species, 0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:21.360 and so I was like, well, how much of this 0:39:21.640 --> 0:39:25.840 is legal? And so I started cross listing. I decided 0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:27.880 I was going to like audit the whole store, and 0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:32.360 I started cross listing the store with the site's database 0:39:32.400 --> 0:39:35.640 the Convention for the International Trade of Endangered Species. And 0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:38.560 as I was doing this, more and more pieces kept 0:39:38.560 --> 0:39:41.799 cropping up. The store kept growing, and so I decided, like, 0:39:41.840 --> 0:39:44.520 while you're looking at his collection is growing, not actively, 0:39:44.560 --> 0:39:46.120 but I would like go check to me, well, because 0:39:46.160 --> 0:39:47.640 of course I'm checking to make sure this stuff is 0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:51.880 still there, but his holdings are increasing exactly like the 0:39:51.920 --> 0:39:59.880 storage exactly exactly. So I made like a hard stop, 0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:03.800 was like, all right, I'm gonna stop stalking this guy's 0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:07.920 Amazon store on December two. And as of December two, 0:40:08.040 --> 0:40:11.000 My why did you want to stop stalking as Amazon store? 0:40:11.160 --> 0:40:12.800 Because I had, like I had to write the story 0:40:12.960 --> 0:40:18.520 and eventually I had to, like I couldn't keeping was done. Yeah, exactly, 0:40:18.600 --> 0:40:21.319 I was done waiting for him to reform UM. And 0:40:21.400 --> 0:40:23.680 so that final audit that I did, he had a 0:40:23.719 --> 0:40:28.040 hundred and sixty four pieces of taxidermy from sites listed species. 0:40:28.840 --> 0:40:33.799 And so I got in touch with Amazon and they 0:40:33.880 --> 0:40:38.640 replied and gave a statement, and UM then proceeded to 0:40:38.719 --> 0:40:41.040 pull down They said, they pulled down some of his 0:40:41.120 --> 0:40:45.960 product and after the story published. UM, I went back 0:40:45.960 --> 0:40:49.000 in and looked and his story that had been probably 0:40:49.040 --> 0:40:51.400 close to like he had like four hundred listings on 0:40:51.440 --> 0:40:55.279 the store. It was down to ten listings. So they 0:40:55.320 --> 0:40:57.400 pulled down a ton of stuff. And it's hard to 0:40:57.400 --> 0:40:59.560 tell like what they pulled down what was sold like 0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:02.799 its cartoon exactly. UM. But right before we were set 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:05.799 to publish UM, I also decided on a whim to 0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:09.680 go see if eBay and Etsy also had any Sigo 0:41:09.680 --> 0:41:13.319 Horn for sale. Um eBay I feel like was a 0:41:13.360 --> 0:41:16.239 dead ringer. I mean they've had issues with UM, they've 0:41:16.239 --> 0:41:20.600 had issues with ivory trade and trying to suppress the 0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:23.719 ivory trade on um eBay, and so I dug in 0:41:23.800 --> 0:41:28.160 there and they had probably like thirty to forty listings 0:41:28.160 --> 0:41:31.319 for siege Horn, and then Etc. Had maybe ten. And 0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:33.160 so I got in touch with both of them as well, 0:41:33.440 --> 0:41:36.600 and neither of them made statements, but Etc. Did pull 0:41:36.719 --> 0:41:40.160 down their siege Horn listings. So so when you call 0:41:40.520 --> 0:41:42.600 what do you call it customer service over to Amazon 0:41:42.680 --> 0:41:44.359 or did you kind of like bag channel a little bit? 0:41:44.400 --> 0:41:47.440 I have act channeled. They used their public relations like 0:41:47.480 --> 0:41:51.279 their media relations contact. UM. Yeah, what other creators did 0:41:51.320 --> 0:41:53.400 you find that they were selling parts from that they 0:41:53.400 --> 0:41:55.279 shouldn't be. Yeah. So I found there were a lot 0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:57.560 of birds, a lot of birds that are on like 0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:01.400 the Migratory Bird Treaty act um. Give me an example, 0:42:01.880 --> 0:42:06.440 there was there was an Eastern Imperial eagle, which is 0:42:06.480 --> 0:42:11.840 the sight E's Appendix one species, like a fully full body. Yeah, 0:42:11.880 --> 0:42:15.640 there's screenshots of that in the article too. Um, and 0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:19.520 then a what was it called a white tailed eagle 0:42:19.719 --> 0:42:23.760 as well. Um, we're too kind of made like really 0:42:23.800 --> 0:42:27.600 really endangered. Like the international trade of these animals is 0:42:27.680 --> 0:42:31.799 seriously locked down. So let me let me got this 0:42:31.880 --> 0:42:34.000 question for you, and I might I might be putting 0:42:34.000 --> 0:42:38.239 myself in jail right now. I don't know. Man came 0:42:38.280 --> 0:42:41.440 back World War two. He was in North Africa, and 0:42:41.480 --> 0:42:44.879 he came back with this big gass dagger that has 0:42:44.880 --> 0:42:48.440 a big ivory handle on it. Okay, I would love 0:42:48.480 --> 0:42:49.960 to find someone that can help me figure out what 0:42:50.000 --> 0:42:53.719 it is. An ivory handle and a leather sheath. It's 0:42:53.760 --> 0:43:00.960 like a translucent leather. I have no idea. Um, if 0:43:01.000 --> 0:43:03.359 all of a sudden, like I died and someone did 0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:06.600 in a state sale, Okay, all of a sudden, here's 0:43:06.640 --> 0:43:10.239 ivory right on the market and you kind of look 0:43:10.239 --> 0:43:13.279 and be like, I don't know, it doesn't feel um 0:43:13.480 --> 0:43:20.520 like mal intent? Book him Dano, Book him Dan? What 0:43:20.560 --> 0:43:26.120 does that mean? From the old Hawaii five oh show 0:43:26.160 --> 0:43:31.799 when they would get somebody? Yeah, so like like if 0:43:31.800 --> 0:43:35.399 you see an eagle, I mean, where's the stuff coming from? 0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:36.600 You know what I'm saying, Like, how is it not 0:43:36.800 --> 0:43:39.400 that just whatever? Some crazy guy had some stuff and 0:43:39.440 --> 0:43:43.200 then this guy bought it and right like do you 0:43:43.239 --> 0:43:44.799 know that it was a guy he said like listen, man, 0:43:44.840 --> 0:43:47.040 there's a hot market. I want you to go shoot 0:43:47.040 --> 0:43:48.719 the eagle and we'll stuff it and sell it on 0:43:48.800 --> 0:43:52.880 my website. It's hard to tell. Um. All I really 0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:57.720 can say to that is that the way that sites works. Um. 0:43:57.800 --> 0:44:02.360 So if the species, like say that stuffed eagle, the 0:44:02.360 --> 0:44:06.400 stuffed Eastern Imperial Eagle, Um, if that mount were created 0:44:06.920 --> 0:44:11.279 before the Eastern Imperial Eagle was listed under sights, which 0:44:11.360 --> 0:44:14.800 is the seven, if those products were already in existence 0:44:14.840 --> 0:44:19.840 before the listing occurred, then they are legal. So that's 0:44:19.880 --> 0:44:21.840 so that's why you see a lot of like vintage 0:44:21.960 --> 0:44:26.520 ivory products that are you know, very you know, they're 0:44:26.560 --> 0:44:30.040 like they sell for incredible amounts of money. Really, I 0:44:30.080 --> 0:44:34.840 think so valuable it probably is. Yeah, don't sell it 0:44:34.880 --> 0:44:39.719 on it's a pretty healthy honk ivory on there, man. Yeah, definitely, 0:44:39.840 --> 0:44:42.080 that's a good idea. So if it's I mean, if 0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:45.000 it was from before, I mean I can't speak specifically 0:44:45.000 --> 0:44:46.640 to ivory because I don't. I think there's a lot 0:44:46.640 --> 0:44:50.320 of separate rules that apply. But at least with sights 0:44:50.400 --> 0:44:56.440 listed species, if those products were already in existence before 0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:59.680 the listing date, then they are technically That's how they're 0:44:59.719 --> 0:45:04.600 able to sell a bunch of like pianos with ivory keys. Mmm. 0:45:04.800 --> 0:45:07.240 Because old stuff. Yeah, Like I when I was a musician, 0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:09.960 I bought a piano and and it had like ivory 0:45:10.000 --> 0:45:12.719 keys on it. Still, so like puts the ivories back 0:45:12.760 --> 0:45:16.400 into tickling the Irish, or does exactly? So do you 0:45:16.440 --> 0:45:18.880 have is it your what's your suspicion like on the 0:45:18.880 --> 0:45:21.399 stuff that this guy was selling. Is your suspicion that 0:45:21.440 --> 0:45:23.960 this was not stuff he picked up from some old 0:45:24.080 --> 0:45:26.919 estate sale, but that this was like stuff that people 0:45:26.960 --> 0:45:29.960 were doing because they could market it. I think it 0:45:30.000 --> 0:45:32.200 was probably the latter. I mean a lot of the 0:45:32.239 --> 0:45:38.760 species were largely endemic to Eastern Europe and Western Asia. 0:45:39.000 --> 0:45:40.919 And they didn't look like old like things that people 0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:42.920 have been smoking cigarettes next to you. Some of them 0:45:43.000 --> 0:45:45.920 really did. Some of them were disgusting, and some of 0:45:45.960 --> 0:45:49.839 them looked pretty new and well done. Um. There were 0:45:49.840 --> 0:45:54.080 a lot of like really just really crappy pelts. UM, 0:45:54.120 --> 0:45:57.600 a lot of like it almost looks like key chains 0:45:57.640 --> 0:46:02.080 made out of the talents off the birds. UM. I 0:46:02.080 --> 0:46:04.840 don't know if you've ever seen a Siberian musk deer before, 0:46:05.640 --> 0:46:10.719 but it's like a deer with fangs. About this not 0:46:10.760 --> 0:46:13.520 in a while, but mounting. I didn't buy it though 0:46:18.360 --> 0:46:27.360 on this sweet website weird it disappeared. So have you gone? 0:46:27.520 --> 0:46:32.280 Have you taken this? And? Um, have you thought about 0:46:32.280 --> 0:46:35.920 going and trying to find some of the real dark 0:46:35.920 --> 0:46:39.879 stuff like like rhino horn? Do you think that, like, 0:46:40.320 --> 0:46:41.759 do you think that you'd find that it was that 0:46:41.880 --> 0:46:44.520 easy to get the things you hear about like every day, Like, 0:46:45.080 --> 0:46:46.440 I don't know, I don't want to do that on 0:46:46.480 --> 0:46:51.600 my company laptop, I can tell you that I I think. So. 0:46:51.680 --> 0:46:54.360 There was one website that I found in this whole 0:46:54.440 --> 0:46:59.520 searching process that was really strange. Um. They sold like 0:47:00.200 --> 0:47:03.560 dried apple. They were selling abalone shell Those are definitely 0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:06.640 not I think there's some restrictions on abalone shell um 0:47:06.680 --> 0:47:11.160 like dried ox gall bladders, like really weird stuff. And 0:47:11.200 --> 0:47:13.840 they had they were selling bags of saga horns for 0:47:13.960 --> 0:47:20.440 like fourteen point five million dollars pop. Yeah, yep, so 0:47:20.719 --> 0:47:23.000 for a bag of them. Yeah here if I can 0:47:23.000 --> 0:47:26.960 find these were good deals in because I saw eBay 0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:29.240 it was like five hundred bucks for a one pound 0:47:29.360 --> 0:47:32.960 of saga horn. Yeah, you found one of those right now? 0:47:33.400 --> 0:47:37.359 No, no no, no, that's from Katie's article. Katie, but next time, 0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:40.120 because if you like that all that Internet sleuth and um, 0:47:40.520 --> 0:47:42.800 try to find us a deal on a really huge 0:47:42.920 --> 0:47:46.680 punt gun, like a huge punt gun. I'll take any 0:47:46.840 --> 0:47:51.759 any requests for dark web dealing big How long? How 0:47:51.760 --> 0:47:54.279 long have a punt gone to one? I would say 0:47:54.320 --> 0:47:56.799 minimum like seven and a half feet? You know, that's 0:47:56.800 --> 0:48:00.000 when it like catches your eye, like that's that's something good. 0:48:00.000 --> 0:48:01.880 Eight foot punt gun. Someone else is gonna have to 0:48:01.920 --> 0:48:06.440 pay for shipping on that. I'm not so are you 0:48:06.600 --> 0:48:09.320 like inspired now to make um? Are you just moving 0:48:09.320 --> 0:48:10.680 on or do you think you're going to do more 0:48:10.719 --> 0:48:12.440 stuff in this vein? I don't know. I mean, it 0:48:12.480 --> 0:48:15.600 was definitely interesting to see that that stuff does exist 0:48:15.680 --> 0:48:18.200 like right under our noses on the websites that we 0:48:18.480 --> 0:48:22.920 most of us like use frequently. Um, this is like 0:48:22.960 --> 0:48:26.000 a the age of the age old adage of if 0:48:26.040 --> 0:48:29.560 you see something, say something, it's so nerdy, but it's 0:48:29.680 --> 0:48:33.640 definitely true. UM, I don't know, we'll see if I 0:48:33.640 --> 0:48:36.279 if I stumble across any other strange stuff, it would 0:48:36.280 --> 0:48:38.839 definitely be kind of an interesting follow up story. But 0:48:39.160 --> 0:48:42.480 what was the statement that Amazon made? Um, they just 0:48:42.560 --> 0:48:47.239 kind of reiterated their seller policy on animals and animal products, 0:48:47.680 --> 0:48:53.680 which is that they abide by all national and international law. Um, 0:48:53.719 --> 0:48:59.160 and they don't condone selling sits listed animal products. And 0:48:59.160 --> 0:49:01.359 they sort of distance some sellers by saying something about 0:49:01.400 --> 0:49:05.239 like third party sellers. Yeah, because there is yeah, they 0:49:05.560 --> 0:49:07.759 you know, this stuff wasn't like you know, available through 0:49:07.800 --> 0:49:13.560 Amazon Prime. This is like, yeah, exactly, they didn't sign 0:49:13.600 --> 0:49:16.439 off on any of this stuff. Um, they aren't willing 0:49:16.440 --> 0:49:19.959 to put their name next to it, which I totally understand. Um. 0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:24.800 That's that's a constant story and perspective from the tech world, 0:49:25.440 --> 0:49:29.000 whether it's publishing, selling where you have like a platform 0:49:29.040 --> 0:49:30.880 like Amazon, and people say, like why I bought it 0:49:30.920 --> 0:49:34.239 on Amazon? But Amazon is also like a home for 0:49:34.280 --> 0:49:35.840 third party sellers to do what they want to do, 0:49:35.960 --> 0:49:39.319 meaning you could also go find um, you could go 0:49:39.360 --> 0:49:46.080 to like wherever iTunes and find objectionable material that people 0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:48.279 have posted to iTunes, and the people want to say 0:49:48.320 --> 0:49:51.520 like well Apple, an Apple would say, We're just a publisher, 0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:54.880 not our material. And it's like it seems like every 0:49:54.920 --> 0:49:57.560 if you follow the tech industry and all of its 0:49:58.400 --> 0:50:02.200 um trouble spot and hot spots, it often like narrows 0:50:02.280 --> 0:50:08.600 down to places trying to where possible find some distance 0:50:08.680 --> 0:50:11.319 between their platform and the people who are living on 0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:14.840 their platform. Absolutely, and sometimes people buy it, and sometimes 0:50:14.840 --> 0:50:16.640 they expect a little bit more. Well, but I mean 0:50:16.680 --> 0:50:18.920 if you put it, you know, from their perspective, not 0:50:19.000 --> 0:50:24.120 to like, you know, advocate for what they did. But um, 0:50:24.160 --> 0:50:29.920 I mean they have millions of sellers on their platform, 0:50:29.960 --> 0:50:32.359 and I mean I can't even imagine how like how 0:50:32.400 --> 0:50:34.440 big a team they would need to have to like 0:50:35.239 --> 0:50:40.000 scrape every single listing for anything prohibited you know, drugs, 0:50:40.680 --> 0:50:46.600 animal products, people like anything along those lines. Who I 0:50:46.680 --> 0:50:49.239 talked to a guy one time, I might screw the 0:50:49.239 --> 0:50:51.920 stat maybe when you guys can find the stat when 0:50:52.000 --> 0:50:56.880 you fast finger little fellas Um he worked at YouTube 0:50:57.360 --> 0:51:01.480 and he was in he was part of his focus 0:51:01.719 --> 0:51:06.440 was like keeping advertisers happy about what stuff their ads 0:51:06.440 --> 0:51:09.680 are applied to. I think he's telling me that every 0:51:09.800 --> 0:51:13.600 minute four hundred hours of content or uploaded to YouTube. 0:51:14.960 --> 0:51:20.920 Can you imagine being in the office that's February, every 0:51:20.960 --> 0:51:25.040 minute five hundred hours of content or uploaded to YouTube, 0:51:25.040 --> 0:51:30.960 and he's supposed to make sure there's nothing objectionable. Yeah, 0:51:31.120 --> 0:51:33.320 and that's why hence when you get your stuff flagged 0:51:33.440 --> 0:51:35.839 on a social media platform, you're like, I don't really 0:51:35.840 --> 0:51:38.400 get it. But because there's so much machine learning in 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:40.759 there now and it's like looking for certain markers and 0:51:40.840 --> 0:51:44.360 traces and now and then it you know, obviously hits 0:51:44.360 --> 0:51:49.279 something that isn't or exactly. Yeah, So I mean they 0:51:49.480 --> 0:51:53.960 definitely skipped over this particular store. Yeah, you can put 0:51:54.000 --> 0:51:57.480 up an infomercial about siga horns and probably would probably 0:51:57.480 --> 0:52:00.080 sit there for some number of days. There probably to 0:52:00.160 --> 0:52:02.920 be active for some number of days where someone found it. 0:52:04.680 --> 0:52:07.120 Katie crushing with this story. It's not often we do 0:52:07.200 --> 0:52:09.120 stuff for him, like Vice would be jealous of this 0:52:09.520 --> 0:52:11.200 or New York Times would be jealous of this, but 0:52:11.239 --> 0:52:14.520 they were not often. It's not often they wouldn't come 0:52:14.560 --> 0:52:19.960 to getting that house cat. I stand by my New 0:52:20.000 --> 0:52:22.479 York Times. New York Times probably burned up that didn't 0:52:22.480 --> 0:52:26.279 get not often that they would be really jealous. They would, 0:52:26.280 --> 0:52:28.160 in fact be jealous of this. If you want to 0:52:28.160 --> 0:52:31.000 read it again. Major online retailers act as black market 0:52:31.040 --> 0:52:35.359 for endangered animal parts. Headline, I ask, what's the what's 0:52:35.360 --> 0:52:38.359 the read on that? That saucy? But it holds up? 0:52:38.960 --> 0:52:41.399 It holds up. Well, we had to go through many 0:52:41.480 --> 0:52:44.360 rounds about it, get pr for meat eater involved to 0:52:44.360 --> 0:52:46.480 make sure that they were cool with it, and that 0:52:46.520 --> 0:52:48.680 was where we landed. But make sure they're cool. How saucy? 0:52:48.719 --> 0:52:56.680 That headlines sounded correct? No blowback though minor from the 0:52:56.960 --> 0:53:03.600 from the saucy from the sauce police. Yeah, I like 0:53:03.719 --> 0:53:11.200 that toned down at sauciness. Well, thanks should come on 0:53:11.680 --> 0:53:13.480 next time you write an article, come tell us about it. 0:53:13.640 --> 0:53:15.960 I would be happy to thank you. You know how 0:53:16.000 --> 0:53:17.799 about you know what we could do this is you 0:53:17.840 --> 0:53:20.960 could write an article on it could be something like 0:53:21.080 --> 0:53:27.200 Steve's dad's dagger. Actually, isn't that interesting or something. You know. 0:53:27.440 --> 0:53:28.959 What I could do is I could try to sell 0:53:29.000 --> 0:53:33.360 it on Amazon and see how much money. I My 0:53:33.480 --> 0:53:35.960 first object is I want to know what off what 0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:38.359 ivory it was. It's a it's a big chunk, man. 0:53:38.480 --> 0:53:40.080 I feel like you could get that figured out, though, 0:53:40.080 --> 0:53:42.400 I mean, they must be able to use you say 0:53:42.440 --> 0:53:45.719 you'll get it figured out. I'll do it. After we're 0:53:45.719 --> 0:53:48.960 at it. I'll bring it in. I'll leave it on 0:53:49.000 --> 0:53:52.400 the table here for a while. Um, whether or not 0:53:52.480 --> 0:53:55.920 it's ever tasted blood, I have no idea that could 0:53:55.920 --> 0:53:59.160 be part of the analysis. All right, Tommy, ready, yep, 0:53:59.280 --> 0:54:04.640 I'm ready enjoying it. Okay, now I'm gonna give the background. 0:54:04.680 --> 0:54:09.600 How I know you because when I was a little boy, 0:54:09.960 --> 0:54:14.200 uh not too little, no, but you were like at 0:54:14.200 --> 0:54:22.080 the forefront of making videos. Um, you used to. I 0:54:22.120 --> 0:54:24.520 feel like, I don't know if I ever saw yet 0:54:24.520 --> 0:54:28.560 one of the Trapper's conventions, but I definitely like your series, 0:54:29.120 --> 0:54:33.359 particularly the Water Trapping VHS tape. Which this what what 0:54:33.400 --> 0:54:34.719 brought this whole thing out is I was just home 0:54:34.760 --> 0:54:38.040 busy with my mom or Thanksgiving, and she doesn't like 0:54:38.080 --> 0:54:40.880 to get rid of anything. Um, and she's got like 0:54:40.960 --> 0:54:44.640 a display she's got you know those old police monitors 0:54:44.719 --> 0:54:47.359 of course. Yeah, okay, that thing was on my entire 0:54:47.400 --> 0:54:50.040 growing up, the police monitor and it goes through all 0:54:50.040 --> 0:54:52.239 his flashing lights and it like picks up. Oh I 0:54:52.280 --> 0:54:54.960 turned it on, and like nothing's happening. I'm like, oh, 0:54:54.960 --> 0:54:57.560 they must have changed whatever they do. But pretty soon 0:54:58.239 --> 0:55:02.120 does a girl going into anaphylactic on my police monitor 0:55:02.600 --> 0:55:05.000 and like they still use those things. No one turned 0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:07.400 that thing on for for a million years regardless. Below 0:55:07.440 --> 0:55:10.560 it is all the old VHS tapes and in there 0:55:10.680 --> 0:55:15.800 I'm like, holy ship, my Tom Miranda water trapping VHS tape, 0:55:15.840 --> 0:55:20.080 which was probably the most like at the time. This 0:55:20.160 --> 0:55:22.239 might be a wild statement, at the time, it had 0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:25.000 to been one of the most probably the most like 0:55:25.840 --> 0:55:33.600 widely distributed pieces of trapping media in the country. I 0:55:33.640 --> 0:55:35.360 was pretty blessed back in those days. You know. It 0:55:35.400 --> 0:55:38.040 was the right place at the right time. A lot 0:55:38.080 --> 0:55:41.040 of big time trappers didn't like me though, because I 0:55:41.080 --> 0:55:44.319 was taking all these uh secrets of the trapper and 0:55:44.400 --> 0:55:46.640 putting them out there on video instead of bringing it 0:55:46.680 --> 0:55:49.719 to your grades. Yeah, instead of actually trying to sell it, 0:55:50.000 --> 0:55:53.880 uh through my catalog, I sold it to video rental stores, 0:55:53.920 --> 0:55:55.400 and so guys could go in and rent it for 0:55:55.400 --> 0:55:59.439 a dollar, and I sold pens of thousands. I won't 0:55:59.440 --> 0:56:02.640 say anymore about the sturgeon, but quite a few, quite 0:56:02.640 --> 0:56:06.480 a few of these videos, and uh, yeah, it was great. 0:56:06.560 --> 0:56:09.920 But I made trapping lures and wrote books and was 0:56:09.960 --> 0:56:13.200 an actual trapper. Tom put it like he was trapping trappers. 0:56:13.480 --> 0:56:15.880 That's right, that's exactly what it was. Well, you know, 0:56:16.239 --> 0:56:18.880 you find out after a while that the fur prices fluctuate. 0:56:18.960 --> 0:56:21.040 You know, one year, raccoons or ten dollars, next year 0:56:21.040 --> 0:56:24.440 their forty dollars, and so that the year they're ten dollars, 0:56:24.440 --> 0:56:26.360 you catch a hundred. In the year their forty dollars, 0:56:26.360 --> 0:56:28.800 you catch ten. So you really never really get ahead 0:56:28.960 --> 0:56:31.360 in the fur industry, you know what I mean. But 0:56:31.440 --> 0:56:33.359 in the trapping side of it. As far as for 0:56:33.400 --> 0:56:35.360 the other trappers, if you were a good trapper, and 0:56:35.400 --> 0:56:38.560 if you made good catches and you were legitimate, they 0:56:38.600 --> 0:56:41.200 would order your books, they would order your videos. And 0:56:41.239 --> 0:56:43.480 when people learned how to catch their first fox or 0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:46.480 their first raccoon or mink, they would think, wow, you know, 0:56:46.520 --> 0:56:47.960 this guy taught me how to do it, and so 0:56:47.960 --> 0:56:50.960 they would buy your products and it basically it's like 0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:53.880 how you gain fans on your meat eat or podcast. 0:56:53.960 --> 0:56:55.960 I mean, you know, people like listening, so they come back. 0:56:56.040 --> 0:56:57.920 Same thing was that, you know back in the mid 0:56:57.960 --> 0:56:59.520 eighties when I did it, it was I thought it 0:56:59.560 --> 0:57:01.839 was like rev illustionary because I would look at all 0:57:01.840 --> 0:57:04.160 those books and I had all the books man um 0:57:04.200 --> 0:57:07.440 like Bob gils Vic had that famous hardcover book that 0:57:07.520 --> 0:57:10.839 everybody in the world had. National Trappers Association put out 0:57:10.840 --> 0:57:13.520 a book. But it would be that on your video 0:57:13.600 --> 0:57:15.239 is also to be there'd be like it seems like 0:57:15.320 --> 0:57:17.240 you just made it yourself right right there. You set 0:57:17.280 --> 0:57:19.120 up a camera, you have all equipment and you'd make 0:57:19.240 --> 0:57:22.000 Uh that was pretty much out to Yeah. I like, 0:57:22.240 --> 0:57:28.800 I like step by step, just emulated, emulated what I saw. 0:57:30.000 --> 0:57:31.720 That's good because it worked right. Yeah. I got the 0:57:31.720 --> 0:57:34.440 equipment like I'll tell you last night, using a tile spade, 0:57:35.000 --> 0:57:37.200 having big old squirt bottles for the lure, all that 0:57:37.280 --> 0:57:38.960 kind of stuff. Man, I love that stuff. Well. In 0:57:39.040 --> 0:57:41.720 the longlining, principle was to cover as much ground as possible. 0:57:41.720 --> 0:57:44.160 It's as many sets and just keep adding new sets. 0:57:44.200 --> 0:57:45.960 At the end of the day you pull the sets 0:57:45.960 --> 0:57:49.800 at the beginning your trap sets that are unproductive, maybe 0:57:49.840 --> 0:57:51.880 you've already caught the animals in that area or the 0:57:52.160 --> 0:57:54.160 surplus is what we always go for. And then you 0:57:54.240 --> 0:57:56.360 move down the line and you just continue to repeat 0:57:56.400 --> 0:57:58.840 yourself to try to keep an average number of animals 0:57:58.840 --> 0:58:00.840 per day. And the whole premise so the videos was 0:58:00.880 --> 0:58:04.000 to cheat a quick, effective set that you could make 0:58:04.080 --> 0:58:06.920 that would handle especially the water trapping of water fluctuation, 0:58:06.920 --> 0:58:09.200 because when it rains, the creeks go up, and you 0:58:09.200 --> 0:58:11.360 want to keep the trap working as as long as 0:58:11.400 --> 0:58:14.280 possible so you have the maximum chance of of taking 0:58:14.280 --> 0:58:17.000 an animal in that one set. And if you set 0:58:17.000 --> 0:58:19.320 ten traps, if you can catch four animals out of 0:58:19.320 --> 0:58:22.320 those ten traps within two days, that's a pretty good average, 0:58:22.560 --> 0:58:25.120 especially if you're running two hundred traps or three traps, 0:58:25.120 --> 0:58:27.840 and a long line trapper would run traps. I mean 0:58:27.840 --> 0:58:30.120 at one time I had skinners that skinned my catch, 0:58:30.160 --> 0:58:31.680 so I just ran the traps all the time and 0:58:31.720 --> 0:58:35.400 then guys skinned them for mens. Yeah. Absolutely, that's how 0:58:35.440 --> 0:58:39.160 you make money. Really absolutely. Set used to be he's 0:58:39.200 --> 0:58:42.160 the skin for a fur buyer. Well, that's that's that's 0:58:42.240 --> 0:58:45.880 a hard way to make money. What was it? What 0:58:46.120 --> 0:58:49.120 was your deal you'd strike with your own skinners? Well, 0:58:49.160 --> 0:58:50.880 you paid them by the piece, you know, you paid 0:58:50.920 --> 0:58:52.440 them by the piece. But they had to do it 0:58:52.480 --> 0:58:54.520 to your specs though obviously. Well yeah, I mean you 0:58:54.520 --> 0:58:57.280 know we had we would wash the pelts, we would 0:58:57.280 --> 0:59:00.200 skin them, we would dry them, and then then I'm 0:59:00.240 --> 0:59:02.480 in a tumble them and you know we basically they 0:59:02.520 --> 0:59:05.439 were the spotless, best pelts they could because you're always 0:59:05.480 --> 0:59:08.240 gonna get the best price for the more prime first, 0:59:08.240 --> 0:59:10.439 but the always the put up first. You know, there's 0:59:10.480 --> 0:59:13.400 some things you can control and some things you can't control. 0:59:13.480 --> 0:59:16.440 If you catch one that's half prime, you can't control that. 0:59:16.520 --> 0:59:18.440 But if you put it up right. You know, it's 0:59:18.480 --> 0:59:23.400 all about presentation. You know, I knew you, Um when 0:59:23.400 --> 0:59:26.920 I when I became aware you, I associated you very 0:59:26.960 --> 0:59:31.760 strongly with South Dakota Chamber. South Dakota. Absolutely. Yeah. I 0:59:31.760 --> 0:59:34.080 didn't realize the later. You were born in Columbus, Ohio? 0:59:34.240 --> 0:59:37.400 I was, Yeah, were you born in the good? Um? 0:59:37.600 --> 0:59:40.000 Like was it was your Were your parents into the 0:59:40.040 --> 0:59:44.440 outdoors and no, Um, my dad deer hunted once in 0:59:44.440 --> 0:59:47.280 a while, but he worked. He worked for Western Electric. 0:59:47.360 --> 0:59:49.160 My mom was a stay at home mom. I lived 0:59:49.160 --> 0:59:51.120 in the suburbs, but there was a there was a 0:59:51.200 --> 0:59:54.280 railroad track near my house and a river system that 0:59:54.320 --> 0:59:55.960 went by. It was called the Big one Nut Creek. 0:59:56.200 --> 1:00:00.200 And so, um, how I actually got into trapping isn't 1:00:00.200 --> 1:00:02.640 from any of my family. It was the next door neighbor. 1:00:02.680 --> 1:00:04.640 I saw him walking down. He was four or five 1:00:04.680 --> 1:00:06.120 years older than me. I saw him walking down the 1:00:06.200 --> 1:00:08.600 railroad tracks with a basket on his back, and I 1:00:08.680 --> 1:00:11.360 was a eleven years old. So I followed him, oh, 1:00:11.480 --> 1:00:13.040 you know, secretly to see what he was doing. And 1:00:13.080 --> 1:00:14.960 he was had the hip waiters on and he was 1:00:15.000 --> 1:00:17.040 going along the creek and he was setting muskrat and 1:00:17.120 --> 1:00:21.120 raccoon traips. Eventually, um, we talked and eventually I was 1:00:21.160 --> 1:00:23.480 carrying his pack basket and you know, doing the hard 1:00:23.520 --> 1:00:26.160 work for him and just learning. And uh, eventually he 1:00:26.200 --> 1:00:28.920 got a girlfriend and I got the trap line. Hmm. 1:00:29.200 --> 1:00:37.760 That's how it worked. Always make that fatal mistake at 1:00:37.800 --> 1:00:40.800 that time? Are you, um, what was your introduction to 1:00:40.840 --> 1:00:45.840 bow hunt? Well, I mean everybody was buying these recurve 1:00:45.880 --> 1:00:49.120 bows of Fred bear Back and you know, the late sixties, 1:00:49.160 --> 1:00:50.840 and you know, this was nineteen sixty nine when I 1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:52.800 started trapping, and of course I had to have one, 1:00:52.880 --> 1:00:56.120 you know, and shooting the backyard that was mostly archery. 1:00:56.320 --> 1:00:57.720 Was that kind of like was it was it then? 1:00:57.760 --> 1:00:59.440 With him and the outdoor rules that kind of like 1:00:59.440 --> 1:01:01.280 a hip thing. It was a hip thing, you know. 1:01:01.680 --> 1:01:03.560 It was a fad kind of a thing, you know 1:01:03.680 --> 1:01:05.720 back then, of course. Yeah, And he was promoting it 1:01:05.760 --> 1:01:07.640 and he was at the time, Bear was doing a 1:01:07.640 --> 1:01:10.800 lot of these videos or films that he did, and 1:01:11.000 --> 1:01:14.160 he would travel around to different gymnasiums and places where 1:01:14.200 --> 1:01:16.120 he'd play his films and talk about bow hunting. And 1:01:16.160 --> 1:01:18.800 that was the really the when when the Fred Bear 1:01:18.880 --> 1:01:21.840 company got really big and really bow hunting really took off. 1:01:21.880 --> 1:01:23.920 We're guys that were at that time when people were 1:01:23.920 --> 1:01:26.200 getting into archery, you know, it was new like like 1:01:26.280 --> 1:01:29.000 state last days didn't have dedicated archery seasons like they 1:01:29.040 --> 1:01:31.880 do now. Um was it? Were people into trick shooting? 1:01:31.880 --> 1:01:35.919 Were you like training to hunt big game? At the time. 1:01:35.960 --> 1:01:38.560 I was young, so I was just enjoying the sport, 1:01:38.680 --> 1:01:40.800 you know, the field of the bow, the flight of 1:01:40.840 --> 1:01:42.760 the arrow, you know, hitting at a target. You know, 1:01:42.800 --> 1:01:46.240 I didn't never really went bow hunting until I was 1:01:46.280 --> 1:01:48.760 in my early twenties, you know, I mean because I 1:01:48.800 --> 1:01:51.680 was a trapper and trapping season is a full time job. 1:01:51.840 --> 1:01:53.760 You know. You've got to run your traps every day, 1:01:53.760 --> 1:01:55.960 you gotta stand your catch, so you really don't have 1:01:55.960 --> 1:01:59.040 a lot of time to actually hunt. How did it want? 1:01:59.400 --> 1:02:03.280 How did it want? Know? You became so entrenched in uh, 1:02:03.480 --> 1:02:09.160 South Dakota and then with that tell people about becoming 1:02:09.200 --> 1:02:13.600 a government trapper and what that all meant. Yeah. Well, um, 1:02:13.640 --> 1:02:16.080 in the early eighties, I saw an ad in the 1:02:16.080 --> 1:02:18.720 Furfish Game magazine in the back of A guy's name 1:02:18.760 --> 1:02:20.960 was Oddan Core. He lived in Miller, South Dakota, and 1:02:20.960 --> 1:02:23.880 he gave trapping lessons. And at the time I was 1:02:24.000 --> 1:02:27.040 really thirsting for information on all the animals, on all 1:02:27.080 --> 1:02:29.680 the trapping. I had never been out west and trapped. 1:02:29.800 --> 1:02:31.720 As I was thinking South Dakota. There was a book 1:02:31.720 --> 1:02:36.200 out at the time by Gerald Wheeland called Longliner Fox Trapping, 1:02:36.240 --> 1:02:39.760 longlin Er Fox Trapping, too Longliner, Kyote trapping, longline or 1:02:39.800 --> 1:02:43.680 mink trapping. So this guy was yeah, absolutely remember the name, 1:02:43.960 --> 1:02:47.880 very very accomplished trapper. Well. I ended up taking lessons 1:02:47.880 --> 1:02:50.480 from Oddon Core and Miller South Dakota. I learned a lot. 1:02:50.680 --> 1:02:52.560 I mean I learned a real lot. And the main 1:02:52.600 --> 1:02:55.320 thing I learned was that there was no secret to it. 1:02:55.320 --> 1:02:57.440 It was just all hard work. It was just repeat. 1:02:57.520 --> 1:02:59.080 You know. It's like a xerox, you know, like a 1:02:59.200 --> 1:03:03.440 copy machine. Find whatever location works, whatever set works, and 1:03:03.480 --> 1:03:06.120 whatever area works, and repeat that over and over and 1:03:06.200 --> 1:03:09.160 over and over again. And that's how you're successful. That's 1:03:09.200 --> 1:03:13.360 what he taught me. Um. Over time, I realized though 1:03:13.400 --> 1:03:16.920 that there there was not It was not gonna be 1:03:17.000 --> 1:03:18.360 I was not going to really be able to make 1:03:18.400 --> 1:03:20.560 a full good living and be as successful as a 1:03:21.200 --> 1:03:23.920 person that I could be by just being a trapper. 1:03:24.440 --> 1:03:27.400 And so UM I had heard of a possible job 1:03:27.440 --> 1:03:30.000 as a government trapper in South Dakota, and I went 1:03:30.000 --> 1:03:31.760 there and applied and I got the job. But at 1:03:31.800 --> 1:03:34.800 the time, I was making my own trapping lures, and um, 1:03:34.800 --> 1:03:36.800 I hadn't started writing books yet or any of that. 1:03:36.840 --> 1:03:39.840 But UM, I was on the cusp of starting my 1:03:40.280 --> 1:03:44.160 entrepreneurship as a trapper. So what's the job description of 1:03:44.200 --> 1:03:47.040 a government trapper? And what was the job title? Yeah, 1:03:47.040 --> 1:03:48.960 I mean I was an a d C specialist, so 1:03:49.080 --> 1:03:52.280 animal damage control specialist, for the state of South Dakota. 1:03:52.720 --> 1:03:55.240 I got a state pickup truck, I had an office, 1:03:55.320 --> 1:03:58.040 I had a secretary. They gave me a bunch of traps, 1:03:58.480 --> 1:04:00.480 and I had ten counties that I had trap in. 1:04:00.680 --> 1:04:03.720 And so anybody that called there's a skunk under your poor, 1:04:03.920 --> 1:04:06.600 to beaver dam and a culver to coyote killing your sheep, 1:04:07.520 --> 1:04:09.439 any of that, I had to go address and ten 1:04:09.480 --> 1:04:12.320 counties in South Dakota. And they're big counties like Montana, 1:04:12.360 --> 1:04:14.600 you know. I mean, it's like a big, big area. 1:04:15.080 --> 1:04:18.560 And so I was driving ten twelve hours a day 1:04:19.080 --> 1:04:21.320 answering all these questions. And that's when I decided that 1:04:21.360 --> 1:04:23.280 I was gonna learn how to fly and do this 1:04:23.520 --> 1:04:26.080 from the air. In the eighties in that area, were 1:04:26.120 --> 1:04:29.440 you encountering any mountain lions or not? Yet? There were 1:04:29.440 --> 1:04:31.120 more out in the Black Hills, you know. I mean, 1:04:31.160 --> 1:04:33.440 we had some on some of the drainages, but we weren't. 1:04:33.440 --> 1:04:35.600 I wasn't being called in on any of those types 1:04:35.600 --> 1:04:38.160 of calls. Not where I was at the Chamberlains on 1:04:38.200 --> 1:04:43.440 the east river of the Missouri River right at ninety so. Um, 1:04:43.480 --> 1:04:45.840 it's kind of in south central South Dakota and all 1:04:45.880 --> 1:04:49.120 my counties that I was responsible for East River. We 1:04:49.200 --> 1:04:55.200 talked about this a little bit last night. Um, someone 1:04:55.320 --> 1:04:58.280 the guy that raises sheep, he goes out and there's 1:04:58.280 --> 1:05:00.640 a dead one land there, and his mind right away 1:05:00.720 --> 1:05:04.400 is called Tom Miranda. He'll come and give me a receipt. 1:05:04.720 --> 1:05:09.520 So but literally, like your phone rings or your secretary's 1:05:09.520 --> 1:05:11.680 phone rings, that's right, And then it's up to you 1:05:12.040 --> 1:05:14.440 at some point in time over a ten county range, 1:05:15.640 --> 1:05:20.280 go out and see what's up. Absolutely yeah, go find 1:05:20.320 --> 1:05:22.640 out if it was really animal damage? You know, did 1:05:22.680 --> 1:05:24.680 it wasn't really a cowdy? Did this thing just die 1:05:25.080 --> 1:05:26.880 in a coudy or a fox eat on it later? 1:05:27.000 --> 1:05:29.320 So you know, you're looking for throat, you know, puncture 1:05:29.320 --> 1:05:32.959 wounds in the throat. You're looking for how this thing died? 1:05:33.240 --> 1:05:35.240 Was it drug? You know, while it was still alive, 1:05:35.440 --> 1:05:37.320 you know, et cetera. You know, what's the fence look 1:05:37.400 --> 1:05:39.640 like in the area. Does he guy have any guard dogs? 1:05:40.200 --> 1:05:43.200 You know what? What's the scenario? How many empty sweaters 1:05:43.200 --> 1:05:45.200 are in the pasture? You know, I mean you're looking 1:05:45.240 --> 1:05:47.440 for all those things. Empty sweaters is a d c 1:05:47.800 --> 1:05:54.800 lingo for dead sheep, Like a little pile of wool Tom, 1:05:54.800 --> 1:05:56.880 what would you do with the animals that you caught, Like, 1:05:56.880 --> 1:06:00.640 were you able to skin and sell them? Or um, 1:06:00.680 --> 1:06:03.080 when we took vacation, we were allowed to sell them. 1:06:03.120 --> 1:06:06.760 But I always caught and skinned my animals, and um, yeah, 1:06:06.800 --> 1:06:08.240 it made me a little bit of an enemy of 1:06:08.280 --> 1:06:10.120 some of the people that worked in the system with me, 1:06:10.160 --> 1:06:13.280 because I was I came from the fur trapping part 1:06:13.280 --> 1:06:14.840 of it when I got the job, and to me, 1:06:14.880 --> 1:06:16.840 it was a waste if I didn't even if they 1:06:16.840 --> 1:06:21.280 were you know, Mangie or whatever not Mangie August. Yeah, 1:06:21.360 --> 1:06:24.320 you know, just because that's what I did. You have 1:06:24.360 --> 1:06:25.840 a hard time to just throw them in a distion 1:06:25.920 --> 1:06:27.720 and you end up. But you know, I was ended 1:06:27.840 --> 1:06:30.000 up with, you know, quite a high number of animals 1:06:30.000 --> 1:06:31.920 that I was turning into the state, and a lot 1:06:31.920 --> 1:06:33.760 of the other trappers were just leaving them lay, you know, 1:06:33.840 --> 1:06:36.560 and they're like, you know, giving me a call and saying, hey, man, 1:06:36.640 --> 1:06:38.560 you know, like making us look bad. Let's just cool 1:06:38.600 --> 1:06:40.680 your jets on this stuff. Because I was a new guy, 1:06:40.720 --> 1:06:42.240 you know, I was a new and I was a 1:06:42.280 --> 1:06:46.160 new new guy in town. So anyways, I learned over 1:06:46.200 --> 1:06:47.600 a course of time that you know, there was a 1:06:47.640 --> 1:06:49.760 little bit of a protocol, you know, that you needed 1:06:49.960 --> 1:06:51.840 to do, and I just was trying to do my best, 1:06:51.920 --> 1:06:54.000 you know, like I tell everybody, you know, I'm not 1:06:54.040 --> 1:06:56.080 the best bow hunter, I'm not the best trapper, I'm 1:06:56.120 --> 1:06:58.400 not the best writer, I'm not the best anything. But 1:06:58.480 --> 1:07:00.960 I'll outwork anybody. And that was the whole key to it. 1:07:01.000 --> 1:07:04.880 I just worked until I was successful. There's a there's 1:07:04.920 --> 1:07:07.520 a great quote by a writer. His name was like Apple, 1:07:07.640 --> 1:07:11.240 rw Apple, remember him? Heah, he has a quote were said, 1:07:11.280 --> 1:07:14.640 I can write faster than anyone can write better. I 1:07:14.680 --> 1:07:17.400 can write faster than anyone who can write better in me, 1:07:17.920 --> 1:07:20.400 and I can write better than anyone who can write 1:07:20.400 --> 1:07:24.200 faster in me. That's true. That's good. That's a good 1:07:24.200 --> 1:07:26.680 way to make a full circle. I grew up two 1:07:26.760 --> 1:07:29.000 hours from Chamberlain, and I feel like a lot of 1:07:29.000 --> 1:07:31.360 the ranchers and farmers that I know in that area 1:07:31.840 --> 1:07:35.400 now in if they were contacting a wildlife damage specialists, 1:07:35.760 --> 1:07:38.680 it would be because of a bunch of geese um 1:07:38.720 --> 1:07:41.760 that are really causing havoc on their beans or corner 1:07:41.800 --> 1:07:43.600 or whatever. Did you deal with a lot of geese 1:07:43.600 --> 1:07:47.040 in your day? There I didn't. There was some concern 1:07:47.400 --> 1:07:49.760 mostly north of where I lived at the Trapper that 1:07:49.840 --> 1:07:53.280 was north in Gettysburg, North. Appear they had a little 1:07:53.280 --> 1:07:55.200 bit more of a goose problem than what we really 1:07:55.240 --> 1:07:58.240 did in my area. The as you get farther south, 1:07:58.320 --> 1:08:01.360 there's only four or five landowners that you know, really 1:08:02.000 --> 1:08:04.920 along lin side that controlled that land that was right 1:08:04.960 --> 1:08:06.600 along the Missouri River. And there's a lot of state 1:08:06.680 --> 1:08:10.120 land along there too that like you know, public hunting 1:08:10.200 --> 1:08:12.120 land and things like that that the state didn't want 1:08:12.240 --> 1:08:15.080 controlled in any of that anyway. So yeah, we didn't 1:08:15.200 --> 1:08:17.639 I didn't have that, But I mean we did blackbird stuff. 1:08:17.680 --> 1:08:19.280 I mean, yeah, we did a little bit of everything. 1:08:19.320 --> 1:08:21.439 You know, the red wing blackbird stuff was always a 1:08:21.479 --> 1:08:25.000 hassling as a crop crop damage, Yeah yeah, yeah. We 1:08:25.120 --> 1:08:29.040 used cannons to scare of the blackbirds. Yeahs associate that 1:08:29.120 --> 1:08:31.040 with just hanging out and cattail mars is what would 1:08:31.040 --> 1:08:33.960 get them in trouble. Just too many of them around, 1:08:34.000 --> 1:08:35.479 you know, they'd all be you know, it'd be tens 1:08:35.520 --> 1:08:37.880 of thousands and flocks you know, flying around and stuff. 1:08:37.920 --> 1:08:40.320 So but doing what to what damaging what? Well, I mean, 1:08:40.360 --> 1:08:42.320 this just didn't want them around I guess, you know, 1:08:42.439 --> 1:08:47.000 I mean just in New Jersey this. I used to 1:08:47.080 --> 1:08:50.000 do some work for a sweet corn farmer and he 1:08:50.040 --> 1:08:53.479 had cannons and it was blackbirds were but red wings. 1:08:54.360 --> 1:08:57.240 I don't know. Some of these could have been starling. Yeah, 1:08:57.240 --> 1:09:00.200 the ones he had brons with was was Starling's. But yeah, 1:09:00.240 --> 1:09:01.760 they just can't scare the ship out of you because 1:09:01.760 --> 1:09:05.000 you didn't. They just shoot them just to scare the birds. Yeah, 1:09:05.280 --> 1:09:08.120 they're like propane cannons. What were some of the oddball 1:09:08.200 --> 1:09:11.360 critters that you dealt with, Like, for example, the only 1:09:11.400 --> 1:09:14.080 save cat I've ever seen in my life was around Chamberlain. 1:09:14.160 --> 1:09:17.920 Did you encounter any really rare stuff like that? Lots 1:09:17.920 --> 1:09:22.280 of civic cat Yeah, they're um, like a spotted skunk, 1:09:22.360 --> 1:09:25.120 a little tiny thing, and yeah, they got everywhere in 1:09:25.160 --> 1:09:28.800 the addicts and under houses, and really it's a it's 1:09:28.840 --> 1:09:31.240 a unique skunk smell, you know. It's not the same 1:09:31.280 --> 1:09:33.400 as the striped skunk smell. It's unique. It's a little 1:09:33.400 --> 1:09:36.000 sweeter actually. Of course, when you're a trapper and you 1:09:36.040 --> 1:09:37.840 make trapp and sent you smelled like money to me, 1:09:39.479 --> 1:09:42.040 to the people that you know, to the people that 1:09:42.040 --> 1:09:43.800 that I that had a problem with them. It was, 1:09:43.880 --> 1:09:45.680 you know, and you had to be careful because you 1:09:45.720 --> 1:09:49.479 couldn't you know, if you scared them, they'd spray, and 1:09:49.479 --> 1:09:51.680 I mean it didn't the sound smell lasted for a 1:09:51.760 --> 1:09:55.200 long long time. So you have an unhappy customer. It's 1:09:55.280 --> 1:09:58.439 not a customer. But yeah, back in those days, i 1:09:58.720 --> 1:10:02.280 UM I used product called that was a Skunks Unlimited 1:10:02.280 --> 1:10:04.120 and basically it was it was a pole with a 1:10:04.160 --> 1:10:06.519 syringe on the end and we put acetone in the syringe. 1:10:06.880 --> 1:10:09.240 We would talk to the skunk and then press that 1:10:09.320 --> 1:10:11.680 needle into its side and inject it with acetone. It 1:10:11.720 --> 1:10:16.880 would just like an attic or something. Yeah, because you 1:10:16.880 --> 1:10:18.719 couldn't really throw it, you know, you try to throw 1:10:18.720 --> 1:10:21.040 a blanket over or something and then try to carry 1:10:21.080 --> 1:10:23.720 the live trap out with the animal. Wouldn't know, But 1:10:23.840 --> 1:10:25.720 skunks are just some of them are quick with the 1:10:25.760 --> 1:10:28.720 trigger finger, if you know what I mean. Yeah, for sure, Hey, 1:10:28.760 --> 1:10:32.000 what percentage of what when people calling they're like, KYO 1:10:32.160 --> 1:10:36.160 killed my sheep? What percentage were actually killed by coyotes? 1:10:36.320 --> 1:10:39.240 I'd say when I was there and I was working 1:10:39.240 --> 1:10:42.920 at I'd say under thirty percent. I'd say maybe even 1:10:44.080 --> 1:10:47.200 most of them died of something else. And now I'm 1:10:47.200 --> 1:10:50.439 not saying that they weren't run by coyotes, you know, 1:10:50.800 --> 1:10:53.519 but and run into a fence or whatever, you know, 1:10:53.680 --> 1:10:57.880 running them around, chasing them around, but actually throat marks 1:10:58.000 --> 1:11:02.480 killed and eating normally when when there was actual predation, 1:11:02.960 --> 1:11:05.560 it was mostly in the spring after the female it 1:11:05.640 --> 1:11:07.360 had the pups, and it was the females that we're 1:11:07.360 --> 1:11:09.519 doing the killing, not the males. Yeah, tell people about 1:11:09.520 --> 1:11:13.120 that little system you'd use with the putting the sheep 1:11:13.120 --> 1:11:16.120 and enclosure and playing a tape and yeah, yeah, well, 1:11:16.280 --> 1:11:18.320 you know, when when we had a bone, especially in 1:11:18.360 --> 1:11:21.200 the spring, when we had a bona fide kill, if 1:11:21.240 --> 1:11:23.800 kyo kill, we would I would try to get the 1:11:23.840 --> 1:11:26.360 landowner to bring his sheep as close to the barn 1:11:26.439 --> 1:11:29.240 as possible, yard him up, if you will, and then 1:11:29.280 --> 1:11:31.839 I would use a radio in the in the corral 1:11:31.960 --> 1:11:35.160 or whatever at night to keep the coyotes from coming 1:11:35.200 --> 1:11:37.800 in on the sheep. And then I would patrol the periphery, 1:11:37.880 --> 1:11:40.439 the outside edge, because that's what the coyotes would do, 1:11:40.479 --> 1:11:42.400 and that's where I would put all my traps and sets. 1:11:42.720 --> 1:11:44.880 It's very difficult to know if you've shot, if you've 1:11:44.920 --> 1:11:47.240 caught or shot the right kyote. You know, how how 1:11:47.280 --> 1:11:49.400 do you know which one is the kyote that actually 1:11:49.640 --> 1:11:53.400 did the damage? Um? So that's that's And so you 1:11:53.479 --> 1:11:55.519 might catch in some areas, you might catch ten or 1:11:55.520 --> 1:11:57.640 twelve coyotes on that outside of that fence, you know, 1:11:57.640 --> 1:12:00.719 and you're just you're just figuring that one of those 1:12:01.040 --> 1:12:03.559 was probably and you know normally when you check them, 1:12:03.600 --> 1:12:05.360 when you catch them, it's the female. You know, if 1:12:05.360 --> 1:12:07.280 you open up her stomach and you see some wool 1:12:07.280 --> 1:12:11.000 in there, who knows if she was raising pups in 1:12:11.040 --> 1:12:18.000 a den, she gets where she gets herself in trouble. Yeah, exactly. Uh, 1:12:18.280 --> 1:12:20.640 tell these guys the story of when you went to 1:12:20.640 --> 1:12:24.640 see Jimmy Houston for career advice. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no 1:12:24.720 --> 1:12:28.040 doubt so. So yeah. Part of my claim to fame 1:12:28.160 --> 1:12:30.720 is having the TV show on ESPN for almost twenty years. 1:12:30.800 --> 1:12:32.760 And so how it basically started was I was a 1:12:32.760 --> 1:12:34.960 trapper at the time, and I was getting a lot 1:12:34.960 --> 1:12:37.759 of animal activist calls. People were calling calling me a killer, 1:12:37.800 --> 1:12:40.120 and the PETA group put me on the top ten 1:12:40.200 --> 1:12:43.880 list of evil people for Wildlife because I had sold 1:12:43.920 --> 1:12:46.160 so many of these how to trap videos. I mean, 1:12:46.200 --> 1:12:49.640 these VHS videos were just everywhere, and so I had 1:12:49.680 --> 1:12:51.320 decided that, you know, I'm gonna do a TV show 1:12:51.320 --> 1:12:53.240 on trapping. I mean that that's gotta be a way 1:12:53.280 --> 1:12:55.080 to get the word out that trappers are, you know, 1:12:55.240 --> 1:12:58.960 really conservation minded and really helping the all the nesting 1:12:59.040 --> 1:13:00.960 birds and all the thing things that we do. You know, 1:13:01.080 --> 1:13:06.000 there's there's really a specific purpose for a trapper. Uh 1:13:06.360 --> 1:13:09.320 So anyways, um, I decided to go see Jimmy Houston 1:13:09.360 --> 1:13:12.599 because he had a TV show on ESPN, and I thought, 1:13:12.880 --> 1:13:14.439 I'm gonna get my word out. That's where I need 1:13:14.520 --> 1:13:16.240 to be. And so I went down to Oklahoma to 1:13:16.280 --> 1:13:18.519 a sports show, stood in line wait to get Jimmy 1:13:18.520 --> 1:13:23.080 Houston's autograph. Yeah, I'm twenty two years older. You were young. 1:13:23.200 --> 1:13:26.719 I was young. Yeah, anyways, I get I get Jimmy 1:13:26.720 --> 1:13:28.560 Houston real quick. How how old were you when he 1:13:28.600 --> 1:13:32.320 did the government Yeah, yeah, twenty four. I'm I meant 1:13:32.360 --> 1:13:34.479 to say, I meant to say thirty two, not twenty 1:13:34.520 --> 1:13:37.960 two two. So you were you were already like big 1:13:38.040 --> 1:13:40.040 time into the trapping. I was all through that. I 1:13:40.120 --> 1:13:41.599 was at the end of the trap and just about 1:13:43.800 --> 1:13:48.599 thirty two. So yeah, it was Yeah, So I get 1:13:48.640 --> 1:13:51.280 out and see Jimmy Houston get in line and I 1:13:51.320 --> 1:13:53.000 tell him and I finally get up there to sign 1:13:53.080 --> 1:13:55.519 my hat. I said, Jimmy, I said, um, I want 1:13:55.560 --> 1:13:57.080 to do a TV show on trap And what do 1:13:57.160 --> 1:13:59.240 you think? You know, you're so show so popular. He goes, 1:13:59.479 --> 1:14:02.120 who rolls his eyes because no, he's gonna watch. He was, 1:14:02.160 --> 1:14:03.840 You're never gonna get any sponsors for that. He goes, 1:14:03.920 --> 1:14:05.439 he will never get a network to take a trap 1:14:05.600 --> 1:14:07.320 and show. You know. He goes, that's barbaric, and all 1:14:07.360 --> 1:14:09.080 I said, no, no, no, that's the point. That's why 1:14:09.120 --> 1:14:10.680 I want to do it. It's not barbaric. You know, 1:14:10.760 --> 1:14:14.160 we used we used traps that have gaps between the jaws. 1:14:14.240 --> 1:14:17.519 We were conservationists. And he goes, you know, he goes, 1:14:17.560 --> 1:14:19.439 do you do anything else in the outdoors? And I said, 1:14:19.680 --> 1:14:21.599 I like bow hunting, you know, I like shooting bow 1:14:22.000 --> 1:14:24.439 because there you go, because that's what you need to do. 1:14:25.000 --> 1:14:28.160 And so that's when I decided to start, you know, actively, 1:14:28.439 --> 1:14:31.040 based off that, yeah, based off of that. In fact, 1:14:31.120 --> 1:14:33.560 that same year, I went bear hunting in Saskatchewan and 1:14:33.600 --> 1:14:37.559 made my very first uh hunting video. I was called 1:14:37.600 --> 1:14:42.280 Big Timber Bears, a Saskatchewan bow hunting adventures. Who did 1:14:42.320 --> 1:14:45.639 you hire to shoot it? To film it? A guy 1:14:45.680 --> 1:14:47.280 that worked for me just went up there and filmed 1:14:47.320 --> 1:14:50.080 it for me. Yeah, so you took your like your 1:14:50.160 --> 1:14:54.680 VHS instructional know how, and started producing what might be 1:14:54.800 --> 1:14:57.760 more Well, did you view that like that first bear 1:14:57.840 --> 1:14:59.920 hunting thing? Did you view it as entertainment or how 1:15:00.160 --> 1:15:05.280 too entertainment? So you like transition because the trap and 1:15:05.360 --> 1:15:08.800 stuff is Yeah, the travistuffs meant for an audience of 1:15:08.840 --> 1:15:10.200 people that are like, I want to learn how to 1:15:10.280 --> 1:15:13.040 do that? Yeah? Well, and I mean my TV shows 1:15:13.120 --> 1:15:15.400 now are based around how to you know, but I 1:15:15.439 --> 1:15:18.439 mean it's it's about an adventure. And that's what The 1:15:18.640 --> 1:15:21.000 Big Timber Bears was. I mean. And when I eventually 1:15:21.160 --> 1:15:23.880 did get on ESPN, and actually I was on Sports 1:15:23.920 --> 1:15:28.000 Channel America, And when I did get on ESPN and 1:15:28.080 --> 1:15:30.600 ninety two, the show was called Outdoor Adventure Magazine and 1:15:30.760 --> 1:15:33.320 was hunting, fishing, and adventure, so it was a magazine 1:15:33.360 --> 1:15:38.439 format show. And um, you know, ESPN called me the 1:15:38.479 --> 1:15:40.920 crazy bow Hunter to do anything once because I did 1:15:41.000 --> 1:15:44.000 bungee jumping, skydiving, rock climbing. I flew many different times 1:15:44.040 --> 1:15:48.080 of types of airplanes. Uh, but I also hunted with 1:15:48.200 --> 1:15:50.280 a bow and I also did fishing. So it was 1:15:51.040 --> 1:15:53.920 and we're very highly rated show for five or six years. Yeah, 1:15:54.160 --> 1:15:56.759 ESPN was like where you went in those years. ESPN 1:15:56.840 --> 1:15:59.000 was where you went for outdoor program. Absolutely. It was 1:15:59.080 --> 1:16:02.840 on Sundays right, Uh, Saturday mornings. Yeah, Saturday morning, and 1:16:02.880 --> 1:16:04.840 then eventually went to ESPN too, and that was on 1:16:04.960 --> 1:16:08.840 Saturdays and Sundays. Yeah. When you were doing ESPN, was 1:16:08.960 --> 1:16:12.519 it UM. Were you doing a commissioned show for them 1:16:12.560 --> 1:16:14.520 or did you have to go find all the financing 1:16:14.600 --> 1:16:18.000 on your own through sponsors. No, it was a UM 1:16:18.560 --> 1:16:21.559 financed by me totally. Yeah, we didn't do they didn't. 1:16:21.600 --> 1:16:23.680 It wasn't like the History Channel and some of that 1:16:23.760 --> 1:16:26.080 stuff that's done today. You know, we had to buy 1:16:26.120 --> 1:16:28.479 our air time. First, you had to get approved and 1:16:28.560 --> 1:16:30.240 you had to be approved producer. Then they had to 1:16:30.320 --> 1:16:32.080 have a time slot available, and then you had to 1:16:32.439 --> 1:16:34.479 tie that time slot up. And they were very very 1:16:34.560 --> 1:16:37.720 focused on ratings. Ratings were everything to them. That's how 1:16:37.760 --> 1:16:40.320 you kept your time, you know, otherwise you you were out. 1:16:40.439 --> 1:16:42.560 And there were so many other shows that wanted to 1:16:42.600 --> 1:16:44.360 be a part of that there was only eight shows 1:16:44.800 --> 1:16:47.400 on a Saturday morning. So even though it was time, 1:16:47.439 --> 1:16:49.519 even though you were buying the slot of time and 1:16:49.640 --> 1:16:51.960 had to and had to finance it through your own 1:16:52.080 --> 1:16:56.920 sponsorships and advertisers, it was competitive to hold it. Absolutely. Yeah, 1:16:57.040 --> 1:16:58.599 not like it is today, you know, with the Outdoor 1:16:58.640 --> 1:17:01.040 Channel or Sportsman or whatever. You just buy a slot 1:17:01.120 --> 1:17:02.400 and you can put anything on there. I mean they 1:17:02.439 --> 1:17:05.599 had specific I mean we weren't even allowed to mention, 1:17:06.520 --> 1:17:09.800 you know, Real Tree or whatever sponsor we had that 1:17:09.920 --> 1:17:13.000 we could show logos and labels, but there was no 1:17:13.160 --> 1:17:17.720 gratuitous advertising, got it. So it was very very different landscape, man. 1:17:17.920 --> 1:17:19.280 And you know, those shows are some of the best 1:17:19.320 --> 1:17:21.320 outdoor shows that were ever done. If somebody ever really 1:17:21.360 --> 1:17:23.040 wanted to go back and look at, you know, what 1:17:23.200 --> 1:17:24.639 they had at the time. I mean, if you look 1:17:24.680 --> 1:17:28.280 at fly Fishing the World and and uh what Walker's 1:17:28.360 --> 1:17:30.880 k Chronicles and some of those other shows, you know, 1:17:31.000 --> 1:17:33.040 there was some really top end shows. I mean, they 1:17:33.080 --> 1:17:36.639 were really the eight best shows that they're that were 1:17:36.680 --> 1:17:39.320 produced at that in that era pretty much. And there 1:17:39.360 --> 1:17:42.280 were a few shows that cycled through. The Wayne Pearson 1:17:42.360 --> 1:17:45.920 shows cycled through, and there's a few other guys, Charlie West, 1:17:46.080 --> 1:17:47.920 and there's a few other shows that cycled through the 1:17:48.120 --> 1:17:49.640 where they were on for a season or two or three, 1:17:49.680 --> 1:17:52.200 then they were out and new shows came in. They 1:17:52.240 --> 1:17:54.200 always trying to get new blood, but there was a 1:17:54.280 --> 1:17:58.639 staple or stable of producers that they went to and used. 1:17:58.720 --> 1:18:00.920 And it was a very exciting time for me because 1:18:01.000 --> 1:18:03.960 it was real. It was I mean, I I say 1:18:04.320 --> 1:18:06.160 that I went from little league to big league, you know, 1:18:06.200 --> 1:18:08.720 because I basically wasn't a TV guy at all, and 1:18:08.800 --> 1:18:11.599 within two years I was on the number one place 1:18:11.640 --> 1:18:13.800 that you could ever be for outdoor show, you know. 1:18:14.160 --> 1:18:16.160 And you you learned to edit your own stuff. Yeah, 1:18:16.160 --> 1:18:18.880 I edit my own stuff. Yeah, So it's a yeah, 1:18:18.920 --> 1:18:20.560 I mean a trapper. I mean I'm a trapper. So 1:18:20.680 --> 1:18:22.680 you do it all yourself, you know. You just learned that, 1:18:23.680 --> 1:18:26.200 and I knew that I would put the right about 1:18:26.240 --> 1:18:28.200 a work into it. Now. I hired guys to edit 1:18:28.240 --> 1:18:31.360 other shows, and I learned a lot of computer editing 1:18:31.400 --> 1:18:33.280 and things from them, the techniques of how to use 1:18:33.360 --> 1:18:35.280 the computers. I mean, I edited a b roll. All 1:18:35.320 --> 1:18:37.439 the ESPN stuff was pretty much a b roll till 1:18:37.840 --> 1:18:39.599 maybe the last three or four years when we went 1:18:39.640 --> 1:18:42.840 to the Avid's and the other types of nonlinear editing. 1:18:42.880 --> 1:18:45.160 Pretty much everything was you know, on the one inch 1:18:45.240 --> 1:18:48.800 tape or you know digital beta cam type of stuff. 1:18:48.840 --> 1:18:52.080 So we were shooting on tape, editing on tape. Did 1:18:52.080 --> 1:18:54.360 the ESPN show kill shots all the way until the 1:18:54.439 --> 1:18:56.640 end of two dozen tend They did till the end, 1:18:56.680 --> 1:18:58.720 but at the very beginning they didn't. In fact that 1:18:58.840 --> 1:19:02.080 we had to cut away from the kill shots um, 1:19:02.320 --> 1:19:05.280 which I complained about immediately after I got on there, 1:19:05.320 --> 1:19:07.320 which I had no credibility with them because I was 1:19:07.400 --> 1:19:09.680 new and I had no you know, I didn't have 1:19:09.760 --> 1:19:13.120 any poll whatsoever. But we fought it for a couple 1:19:13.120 --> 1:19:15.680 of years and finally they allowed me to use a 1:19:15.760 --> 1:19:18.040 bow and show the impact if the arrow would go 1:19:18.120 --> 1:19:19.880 all the way through the animal. And so I started 1:19:19.920 --> 1:19:27.080 shooting eighty five pound bow. I wanted. I had to, 1:19:27.160 --> 1:19:29.400 because I wanted vindication. Man, I mean, you know, it's 1:19:29.479 --> 1:19:31.479 like you can't take the kill shot away. I mean, 1:19:31.520 --> 1:19:34.200 that's what everybody wants to say. I always remember that 1:19:34.760 --> 1:19:38.240 you shooting explaining in some of your videos, and I 1:19:38.360 --> 1:19:40.840 used to watch them that you're just shooting like super 1:19:40.920 --> 1:19:44.280 heavy bow. I actually got found out about you in 1:19:44.400 --> 1:19:49.120 my Christmas stocking. I got a DVD if your mom 1:19:49.200 --> 1:19:52.639 got which one wasn't yours? I think it was DVD, yeah, 1:19:52.880 --> 1:19:56.599 not VHS, No, it was. It was young people these days. 1:19:58.840 --> 1:20:05.080 I don't remember feeling like territories wild. Yeah, so you 1:20:05.160 --> 1:20:07.519 said used to you still should be watching my DVD 1:20:10.840 --> 1:20:22.559 performed anymore to that point, Man, It's like super interesting 1:20:22.600 --> 1:20:24.800 how these like two groups of folks. Know you have 1:20:25.000 --> 1:20:27.680 like the folks that know you as you know, the 1:20:28.880 --> 1:20:31.040 trapping how to dude, and then you have folks like 1:20:31.120 --> 1:20:33.840 me and Chester who know you was like like a 1:20:33.960 --> 1:20:36.640 proto Remy Warren kind of like it like just the 1:20:36.760 --> 1:20:40.040 adventure bow Hunter you know, well I knew him as 1:20:40.120 --> 1:20:43.559 trapper too. Did you Did you do more trapping than 1:20:43.560 --> 1:20:47.960 I do? Man? You're better outdoors, more well rounded. The 1:20:48.320 --> 1:20:51.080 would do you like identify like at this point as 1:20:51.200 --> 1:20:54.280 like you know, a a trapper who did this bow 1:20:54.400 --> 1:20:57.439 hunting thing in order to make like his content more 1:20:57.479 --> 1:21:01.080 available for people, or do you find yourself identifying like 1:21:01.160 --> 1:21:04.120 a lot is like that bow Hunter? Now? Well, I 1:21:04.160 --> 1:21:07.479 mean I identify as both only because I guess I 1:21:07.600 --> 1:21:11.000 can um to me the reality the reality of it 1:21:11.240 --> 1:21:13.320 was when I was growing up as a kid. My 1:21:13.479 --> 1:21:16.639 parents allowed me a huge latitude. When I was eleven 1:21:16.720 --> 1:21:18.640 years old, I could go out at three thirty four 1:21:18.640 --> 1:21:20.400 o'clock in the morning and run my trap line by 1:21:20.439 --> 1:21:22.680 myself with a pair of hip waiters down a river 1:21:22.760 --> 1:21:25.200 that might have been flooded out from rain or snow 1:21:25.360 --> 1:21:28.439 or whatever. And when I had homework, my mom would 1:21:28.479 --> 1:21:30.439 still let me skin my catch. You know, it wasn't 1:21:30.479 --> 1:21:32.400 the home that the school wasn't as important as what 1:21:32.479 --> 1:21:35.000 I was learning outdoors. My parents gave me this latitude 1:21:35.320 --> 1:21:38.799 that eventually allowed me after high school to go to Michigan. 1:21:38.960 --> 1:21:40.599 You know, like I tell everybody, I bought my first 1:21:40.920 --> 1:21:43.439 Jeep CJ with trapping money. I brought my first property 1:21:43.479 --> 1:21:45.680 with trapping money. I built my first cabin with trap 1:21:45.800 --> 1:21:47.719 of money. I bought my first airplane with trap of money. 1:21:48.200 --> 1:21:50.479 That's what I was enjoying and doing. But my dad, 1:21:50.560 --> 1:21:53.599 when he raised me, he talked to me about being 1:21:53.680 --> 1:21:55.720 always being the best. You know, you gotta make your 1:21:55.720 --> 1:21:57.360 bed every morning. You've got to be the best that 1:21:57.439 --> 1:21:59.400 you can be at what you're doing. And when I switched, 1:22:00.000 --> 1:22:01.600 it was very difficult. I was at the top of 1:22:01.640 --> 1:22:03.240 my game as a trapper. But when I really I 1:22:03.320 --> 1:22:05.759 realized that I needed to do something to keep trapping 1:22:05.840 --> 1:22:07.920 around and I was going to have a larger audience 1:22:07.960 --> 1:22:10.560 if I could get on TV and tell people about it. 1:22:10.640 --> 1:22:13.679 Even though I couldn't do a trapping show, I could 1:22:13.720 --> 1:22:15.800 do a bow hunting show, and I could I could 1:22:15.880 --> 1:22:19.759 promote that way for trapping and for for the industry 1:22:19.880 --> 1:22:22.680 as well as for wildlife and conservation. And so that's 1:22:22.720 --> 1:22:24.760 what I did, and I did it the best I could. 1:22:25.280 --> 1:22:26.920 You never felt like you were slumming it as a 1:22:26.960 --> 1:22:30.840 bow hunter, absolutely not, because I ran with the adventure thing. 1:22:30.920 --> 1:22:33.479 You know. It's like it's like the what I always 1:22:33.479 --> 1:22:35.439 say it to everybody. It's like, I want to go hunt, 1:22:35.600 --> 1:22:37.439 go somewhere I've never been and hunt an animal I've 1:22:37.479 --> 1:22:40.880 never seen, except I don't want to hunt that crazy 1:22:40.960 --> 1:22:50.280 antelope you're talking about. But yeah, so that's the you know. 1:22:50.439 --> 1:22:52.280 So that's what I did, and so that's how the 1:22:52.360 --> 1:22:55.439 Super Slam all came about because I just started, you know, 1:22:55.520 --> 1:22:57.479 one animal at a time. Of course, Chuck Adams, the 1:22:57.479 --> 1:23:00.120 first bow hunter to take then at the time, I'm 1:23:00.160 --> 1:23:02.120 North American Big Game Animals was a guest on my 1:23:02.200 --> 1:23:04.679 show TV show on ESPN for a couple of years. 1:23:04.760 --> 1:23:07.240 He had a sponsor that also sponsored my show, so 1:23:07.479 --> 1:23:09.080 he washould come on the show. He would come on 1:23:09.120 --> 1:23:10.439 the show, and he did tips on the show, and 1:23:10.520 --> 1:23:12.639 I got to know him, and I can remember interviewing 1:23:12.720 --> 1:23:14.400 him and talking with him about some of his hunts, 1:23:14.439 --> 1:23:16.360 and I was like, you know, I'll never do a 1:23:17.080 --> 1:23:22.680 grizzly bear, you know Adams articles. Yeah, absolutely so. But 1:23:22.840 --> 1:23:24.720 one thing led to another, and you know, you have 1:23:24.920 --> 1:23:26.679 you know, every year you've got a quota of shows 1:23:26.680 --> 1:23:28.800 you gotta do, and every year you'd get one, two 1:23:28.840 --> 1:23:30.519 or three more species. And there was just a point 1:23:30.520 --> 1:23:33.240 in time when I started looking back and thinking, wow, 1:23:33.400 --> 1:23:35.360 you know I got you know, I got twelve. You know, 1:23:35.439 --> 1:23:37.640 there's there's At the time when I started, there was 1:23:37.720 --> 1:23:39.560 only twenty to actually go for the Slam. There was 1:23:39.560 --> 1:23:41.439 still in twenty seven, and then there was twenty eight 1:23:41.640 --> 1:23:43.679 and then eventually twenty nine. Yeah, where do they add 1:23:44.640 --> 1:23:48.840 They added the Central Canadian Bearground cariboo first, And I'd 1:23:48.920 --> 1:23:50.760 be guessing at the date, but I think it was 1:23:51.640 --> 1:23:53.800 it might have been in the late nineties, so that 1:23:53.920 --> 1:23:55.640 might have been twenty eight when I started, but then 1:23:55.680 --> 1:23:58.439 then the last one was the Tuliel I think that 1:23:58.560 --> 1:24:00.840 was two thousand and eight when they added that one. 1:24:02.240 --> 1:24:05.720 Anymore anytime soon or do you think it's total dropping off? Unfortunately, 1:24:05.880 --> 1:24:09.519 because like the you can't hunt the Quebec Labrador cariboo, 1:24:09.520 --> 1:24:13.120 which is one of the five cariboo subspecies right now. Yeah, 1:24:13.200 --> 1:24:15.160 and then you know, cariboo is cyclic by nature. But 1:24:15.360 --> 1:24:18.200 you know, I can remember hunting in Alaska for the 1:24:18.640 --> 1:24:21.320 barren ground cariboo and and and hunting them. Will Chatting 1:24:21.360 --> 1:24:23.720 I heard there's four hundred thousand animals, and then will 1:24:23.760 --> 1:24:27.120 Chatten I heard, you know there's probably not even ten 1:24:27.200 --> 1:24:29.000 thousand animals in the will Chatten I heard. Now, I 1:24:29.040 --> 1:24:31.960 mean it's basically disappeared. So I mean these caribou are 1:24:32.080 --> 1:24:35.040 cyclic uh creatures, you know. And one of the things 1:24:35.080 --> 1:24:36.760 I would add to what we were talking about about 1:24:36.760 --> 1:24:39.800 the sites and sago horns and all that is, you know, 1:24:39.840 --> 1:24:43.000 I think a really good article would be about the 1:24:43.080 --> 1:24:47.720 political side of societies, because the reality is, um there's 1:24:47.760 --> 1:24:50.240 a lot of political influence. If you know, there's a 1:24:50.320 --> 1:24:54.519 lot of people that are pseudo scientists or biologists that 1:24:54.680 --> 1:24:58.080 have more political motives about what animals are hunted and 1:24:58.120 --> 1:25:00.920 one animals aren't and maybe they have political motive that 1:25:01.000 --> 1:25:02.960 maybe no animals should be hunt And take the polar bear, 1:25:03.000 --> 1:25:06.320 for example, in North America, there on the threatened the 1:25:06.400 --> 1:25:08.960 lists of society. So we cannot import polar bears into 1:25:09.040 --> 1:25:11.200 North America to the United States, but we can hunt 1:25:11.200 --> 1:25:14.360 polar bears. You can go to Canada and polar bears, 1:25:14.720 --> 1:25:16.719 but that you can't import them into the United States. 1:25:16.800 --> 1:25:22.200 What's what that in like the in the like the Intuit, 1:25:22.680 --> 1:25:25.080 what's that called there? None of none of it. Yeah, 1:25:25.640 --> 1:25:27.360 but they kind of have their own autonomous zone and 1:25:27.400 --> 1:25:30.160 they run wild on them. You can hunt them anywhere 1:25:30.360 --> 1:25:34.639 in Canada or other countries that border that have polar 1:25:34.720 --> 1:25:38.960 bear populations, I think except Alaska, but um, you can't 1:25:39.000 --> 1:25:41.840 import them into the US. Well, the US hunters are 1:25:41.960 --> 1:25:45.479 the most prolific hunters and traveling and hunting. And if 1:25:45.520 --> 1:25:48.600 you look at just the they were put on the 1:25:48.800 --> 1:25:50.960 polar bears are put on the threatened list because of 1:25:51.240 --> 1:25:55.400 the supposedly global warming was thinning out the ice sheet 1:25:55.439 --> 1:25:58.000 and they were having less habitat because they hunt seals 1:25:58.040 --> 1:26:02.760 on the ice Audiana. Yeah, speculative polar bear numbers are 1:26:02.800 --> 1:26:06.800 currently strong, but it's speculative that they'll they'll exactly, So 1:26:06.880 --> 1:26:09.519 there's somewhat of a political motive behind it. It's not science, 1:26:09.600 --> 1:26:11.600 you know. Now and now there's tax durmy shops that 1:26:11.640 --> 1:26:14.960 have come out with um with imitation polar bear amounts, 1:26:15.000 --> 1:26:18.519 you know, like a replica, so you can actually buy 1:26:18.560 --> 1:26:20.799 a replica polar bear amounts. You can go to Canada, 1:26:21.000 --> 1:26:23.960 shoot a polar bear and have a replica amount in 1:26:24.040 --> 1:26:26.080 your trophy room. Where do you leave? Where do you 1:26:26.160 --> 1:26:28.800 leave the bear? While you can't get it into the US, well, 1:26:28.840 --> 1:26:30.400 I can stay in Canada. So a lot of them 1:26:30.400 --> 1:26:32.200 get them Tanda's rugs and give them to people. Are 1:26:32.200 --> 1:26:33.640 a lot of them get them mounted anyway, and they 1:26:33.680 --> 1:26:35.600 put them in stores or places like that. And like 1:26:35.760 --> 1:26:38.439 someday I'm gonna come get my thing. But I don't 1:26:38.439 --> 1:26:40.360 think it'll ever happen. That's a problem, you know. I 1:26:40.360 --> 1:26:41.720 don't think you'll ever be able to bring them in 1:26:41.840 --> 1:26:43.920 if they were shot. The thing is is like when 1:26:43.960 --> 1:26:45.960 I shot my polar bear was the last year before 1:26:46.000 --> 1:26:47.640 the thing went on, and I shot mine in two 1:26:47.680 --> 1:26:52.960 thousand and seven, They with all my animals with the bow. 1:26:53.240 --> 1:26:56.640 So um, the thing was mine was one of the 1:26:56.760 --> 1:26:58.240 last ones back that I had, so I had the 1:26:58.280 --> 1:27:01.519 real polar bear and in my grophy room. But you know, 1:27:01.880 --> 1:27:04.720 it just suppresses the the amount of money that the 1:27:04.760 --> 1:27:07.960 Intuit people's can make. I mean this, polar bears, it 1:27:08.040 --> 1:27:10.720 costs well, the my polar bear hunt cost twenty seven 1:27:11.200 --> 1:27:13.519 five hundred. It cost six thousand for the flights to go, 1:27:13.920 --> 1:27:15.840 and then plus you're tipping your guide and you're spending 1:27:15.880 --> 1:27:19.080 money as you're there. I mean this, These Intuit communities 1:27:19.400 --> 1:27:22.320 are totally dependent on the Canadian government for money unless 1:27:22.720 --> 1:27:25.280 there's this influx of capital from these people that will 1:27:25.320 --> 1:27:27.720 come and hunt or fish or pus in that. So 1:27:28.320 --> 1:27:30.600 you know, they've lost a lot of income over the 1:27:30.680 --> 1:27:32.479 fact that you know, you can't bring them back. A 1:27:32.520 --> 1:27:34.080 lot of guys don't hunt. It's easy to get a 1:27:34.120 --> 1:27:36.040 polar bear. I was on a four year waiting list 1:27:36.120 --> 1:27:38.120 before I got to hunt mine. So there were people 1:27:38.200 --> 1:27:39.560 that wanted to go up there, but there still was 1:27:39.680 --> 1:27:42.680 limited amount of tags. Got it. I think, what are 1:27:42.680 --> 1:27:46.640 you talking about? The society is saying, I mean, you 1:27:46.680 --> 1:27:49.920 bring up valid point because you have these things like 1:27:50.080 --> 1:27:53.040 the Endangered Species Act, right, which I've completely support and 1:27:53.080 --> 1:27:56.640 it's done a lot of tremendous work. Sieties done a 1:27:56.680 --> 1:27:59.400 lot of great work. It's like inspired by like an 1:27:59.479 --> 1:28:02.680 honest knee. But I do find and we report on 1:28:02.760 --> 1:28:08.439 it all the time. Inevitably, you have cases, um, which 1:28:08.600 --> 1:28:12.519 in my mind weaken those structures because you have people 1:28:12.560 --> 1:28:16.080 who learned how to manipulate them politically. Um, they want 1:28:16.160 --> 1:28:18.680 one thing and they talk about another thing. And so 1:28:19.200 --> 1:28:22.840 like we've covered endlessly here is like grizzly bardy listing, 1:28:22.880 --> 1:28:28.519 wolf delisting right. Um, it's you had species go on 1:28:28.640 --> 1:28:32.479 the Endangered Species Act as threatened they hit recovery. But people, 1:28:32.640 --> 1:28:36.160 some people just cannot stomach the idea that someone would 1:28:36.160 --> 1:28:40.400 go hunt them. So they don't want to debate whether 1:28:40.479 --> 1:28:45.519 they've recovered. They want to debate these like obscure um 1:28:46.120 --> 1:28:51.680 legal issues right with And if you heard their private conversations, 1:28:52.000 --> 1:28:54.840 no doubt their private conversations are I just don't want this. 1:28:55.240 --> 1:28:56.599 I don't want anybody to hunt them. I don't care 1:28:56.600 --> 1:28:58.920 how many there are. And they'd be saying the same 1:28:58.960 --> 1:29:01.000 thing if there were a million of them. They're just 1:29:01.200 --> 1:29:04.000 never gonna like, they're not going to give up that point. 1:29:04.600 --> 1:29:06.880 They're never gonna say what they actually think, and they're 1:29:06.880 --> 1:29:09.120 always gonna say something that they don't think because it 1:29:09.160 --> 1:29:11.560 allows them to advance what they do. And then it 1:29:11.560 --> 1:29:15.800 creates all Then it creates people like me, people like 1:29:15.920 --> 1:29:19.040 you who then um wind up feeling like a little 1:29:19.040 --> 1:29:20.439 bit like you're being sold a bill of goods. Then 1:29:20.479 --> 1:29:23.080 he becomes suspicious about the who damn structure, which is 1:29:23.080 --> 1:29:24.920 like I always try to prevent myself from falling into 1:29:24.960 --> 1:29:27.760 the trap of being coming like suspicious of e s 1:29:27.840 --> 1:29:31.000 A specious suspicious of the act. I think the act 1:29:31.120 --> 1:29:34.760 was a needed thing. I don't like it when it 1:29:34.800 --> 1:29:39.040 gets manipulated. Absolutely, you know the thing is to me, 1:29:39.200 --> 1:29:42.120 it's There's another prime example of what happens that people 1:29:42.160 --> 1:29:45.440 don't realize is that the hiding behind the science things 1:29:45.520 --> 1:29:47.120 like in Africa, for example, I do a lot of 1:29:47.160 --> 1:29:50.360 hunting in Africa, have been many times to Africa. There 1:29:50.560 --> 1:29:54.360 there are groups and organizations that do scientific research, like 1:29:54.520 --> 1:29:58.200 on leopards, for example, which was very nocturnal and sneaky animal, 1:29:58.720 --> 1:30:01.559 not very rarely seen in the wild in the daylight. 1:30:02.280 --> 1:30:04.640 But they'll set up trail cameras in these areas that 1:30:04.720 --> 1:30:07.640 are flash cameras, and once the leopards got take got 1:30:07.760 --> 1:30:09.880 some picture taken once with a flash camera, he's never 1:30:09.920 --> 1:30:14.160 gonna walk by that camera ever, ever again. And so 1:30:14.360 --> 1:30:16.880 these people, over the course of so many months will say, well, 1:30:16.960 --> 1:30:19.479 we only got you know, there should be in this 1:30:19.720 --> 1:30:22.920 area fifty leopards, but we only have pictures of three, 1:30:23.040 --> 1:30:25.679 So the populations are really going down. We're in reality, 1:30:25.840 --> 1:30:27.400 these are some of the places where I hunt and 1:30:27.439 --> 1:30:29.800 where we hunt leopards, and we know, and we have 1:30:30.080 --> 1:30:34.679 pictures of hundreds of different leopards in the same area. 1:30:34.760 --> 1:30:37.680 But there's the science. The people, the hunters have an 1:30:37.720 --> 1:30:40.160 agenda to them. We have an agenda to these people. 1:30:40.200 --> 1:30:41.840 We have an agenda. We want to say there's more 1:30:41.920 --> 1:30:44.800 than enough to hunt, where they want to say there's 1:30:44.880 --> 1:30:46.800 less than enough. So what is the real number? It's 1:30:46.800 --> 1:30:49.120 probably fair to say you both have a substantial bias 1:30:49.680 --> 1:30:57.599 muscle manals coming uh walk me through, because like following 1:30:57.680 --> 1:31:01.000 your career is like following UM look at your history 1:31:01.040 --> 1:31:04.040 of career, it's like looking at the history of media, 1:31:04.920 --> 1:31:08.040 you know, particularly like a focus on outdoor media, but 1:31:08.160 --> 1:31:13.160 just like media in general. UM. Eventually ESPN moves on 1:31:13.439 --> 1:31:18.160 right because the ESPN we know today, which is intensively 1:31:18.280 --> 1:31:24.080 professional sports, right, absolutely, So what happened to you then? 1:31:24.640 --> 1:31:27.439 Like how did you continue just always adapt to be 1:31:27.520 --> 1:31:30.439 one step ahead? You know, when ESPN was purchased by 1:31:30.640 --> 1:31:34.160 the Walt Disney Company, they started to change their values 1:31:34.240 --> 1:31:36.479 and things, and they decided at a point in time, 1:31:36.520 --> 1:31:39.040 not that they were so much anti hunting. Maybe they were, 1:31:39.160 --> 1:31:43.160 maybe they weren't. I won't say either way. Um, they 1:31:43.280 --> 1:31:46.720 decided to go back to a sticking ball network, which 1:31:46.800 --> 1:31:49.200 is what they were founded on originally. So like you said, 1:31:49.240 --> 1:31:52.400 they went back to like a total sports network. And 1:31:52.520 --> 1:31:54.240 so yeah, for the guys, I mean I made it 1:31:54.280 --> 1:31:56.040 all the way to the very end. In fact, um, 1:31:56.360 --> 1:31:58.760 when they decided to break break up and take the 1:31:58.880 --> 1:32:02.200 Outdoors away, I had signed a five year contract and 1:32:02.280 --> 1:32:04.519 I still had two years left in my contract, so 1:32:04.600 --> 1:32:07.720 they couldn't actually get totally rid of the Outdoors. And 1:32:07.800 --> 1:32:09.240 there were there were three or four of us that 1:32:09.400 --> 1:32:12.200 had longer term agreements with the network, and they didn't 1:32:12.200 --> 1:32:14.920 just buy out. No, they let us run all the 1:32:14.960 --> 1:32:16.599 way to the end. And you know part of it too, 1:32:16.760 --> 1:32:19.360 was part of it too, that that that demise the 1:32:19.600 --> 1:32:22.080 ESPN model was the fact that soccer became more and 1:32:22.160 --> 1:32:25.320 more and more popular and at at seven o'clock in 1:32:25.400 --> 1:32:28.559 the morning in our country, it's six, or it's one 1:32:28.600 --> 1:32:31.479 o'clock in the afternoon in London. Are over in Europe 1:32:31.479 --> 1:32:33.760 when the soccer games are going on. So they could 1:32:33.800 --> 1:32:36.160 make a lot more money on a soccer game because 1:32:36.200 --> 1:32:38.400 of the tennis shoe sales and the commercials and all 1:32:38.439 --> 1:32:40.720 the things they could do than you know, So the 1:32:40.800 --> 1:32:43.160 soccer games would run in the mornings instead of the 1:32:43.200 --> 1:32:48.120 outdoor shows. And they were trying to watch that game negative. Man, 1:32:48.200 --> 1:32:51.519 that's a hard game to watch on man, except when 1:32:53.160 --> 1:32:56.000 they need to shrink that whole area way down. And 1:32:56.040 --> 1:32:58.720 the other problem with watching it is how many hail 1:32:58.800 --> 1:33:03.040 mary's they do, Like will just start getting interesting and 1:33:03.080 --> 1:33:04.680 one will kick the ball away they held down the 1:33:04.760 --> 1:33:06.760 other end. You don't have any idea who's gonna get it. 1:33:07.680 --> 1:33:11.120 It's like, man, they don't. It's just they just that's 1:33:11.160 --> 1:33:14.599 like it's like, oh it's getting too exciting, viewers are 1:33:14.680 --> 1:33:17.160 paying attention. They just like kick it way back down. 1:33:17.360 --> 1:33:22.880 Oh my god, it's great. So if anyone who works 1:33:23.640 --> 1:33:26.320 for the most popular sport in the world wants to 1:33:26.360 --> 1:33:31.639 take some tips from Steve Ronella. Hey, they do listen. 1:33:31.720 --> 1:33:35.200 I know. I can't think of specific examples I know 1:33:35.320 --> 1:33:39.400 where they have changed rules to make a better viewing experience. 1:33:39.479 --> 1:33:41.720 Can anybody back me up on this? There's there's I 1:33:42.040 --> 1:33:44.400 can't think of him, but I've heard of it. That's sports, 1:33:44.439 --> 1:33:48.000 like the NFL or whatever. Well, football has made some changes. 1:33:48.040 --> 1:33:50.160 Don't change the rule to make it better, to change 1:33:50.200 --> 1:33:52.320 like the length for the extra kick, and then the 1:33:52.360 --> 1:33:54.360 stuff like that soccer, they should make a rule. You 1:33:54.439 --> 1:33:57.560 can't just hail marry it down to their end of 1:33:57.600 --> 1:34:00.640 the field right when things are getting interesting. Either that 1:34:00.760 --> 1:34:02.679 or tie once on behind the back of the goalie. 1:34:02.720 --> 1:34:05.320 That would work, tie one arm behind the back of 1:34:05.360 --> 1:34:10.760 the goalie. Yeah, it's that's right. Uh yeah, there's a 1:34:10.800 --> 1:34:15.680 little side note. We'll leave that in phil um So 1:34:16.320 --> 1:34:18.519 when that collapsed, what but like at the same time 1:34:18.560 --> 1:34:20.519 that I don't want to say collapsed, but then like 1:34:20.680 --> 1:34:25.160 outdoor channel was like right like filled the filled the Yeah. Well, 1:34:25.479 --> 1:34:27.679 and at the time there was a network called Versus 1:34:28.000 --> 1:34:30.519 you know which which eventually changed this name to I 1:34:30.560 --> 1:34:33.679 don't even NBC Sports. I think it was there. That's 1:34:33.680 --> 1:34:35.559 what I didn't know that that's what Versus didn't. Yeah, 1:34:36.040 --> 1:34:38.200 but did you do anything there? Oh yeah, Well what 1:34:38.360 --> 1:34:41.160 happened was is I had sponsors that had longer term 1:34:41.200 --> 1:34:45.479 agreements than my my network agreement. So that creates a 1:34:45.520 --> 1:34:47.840 pickle for ye, especially when you know we're doing you know, 1:34:48.840 --> 1:34:51.360 well ESPN that I was almos a hundred and twenty 1:34:51.400 --> 1:34:53.439 million households, you know, so it's like, how do you 1:34:53.520 --> 1:34:57.120 replace those households with the outdoor channel? You don't, you know. 1:34:57.240 --> 1:35:00.439 So I ended up doing a deal with Versus UM, 1:35:00.920 --> 1:35:04.640 which preventually became the NBC Sports Network, but UM and 1:35:04.880 --> 1:35:07.559 and the Sportsman Channel what was just kind of fledger, 1:35:07.840 --> 1:35:10.680 and I went to all myself channel. So that's what 1:35:10.800 --> 1:35:13.280 I did. And and so I made a deal with 1:35:13.560 --> 1:35:15.840 Versus and a deal with the Sportsman's Channel, and I 1:35:15.960 --> 1:35:18.800 alternated shows. So basically, I would do all my full 1:35:18.920 --> 1:35:21.160 run of shows before the season, and I would start 1:35:21.200 --> 1:35:23.400 with show thirteen on one network and show one on 1:35:23.479 --> 1:35:26.640 the other network. And that's how I alternated through to 1:35:26.720 --> 1:35:29.400 air on two networks, because you know, that's almost taboo 1:35:29.680 --> 1:35:31.519 to have a show air on two networks at the 1:35:31.520 --> 1:35:33.920 same time, you know what I mean. Huh, That's how 1:35:33.960 --> 1:35:37.280 I did it really Yeah, And you've been at You've 1:35:37.320 --> 1:35:39.640 been distributing there for a long time, you know, I was, 1:35:39.840 --> 1:35:41.599 I was there, I was on versus I think we're 1:35:41.640 --> 1:35:44.439 three years and and then I switched from Sportsman to 1:35:44.520 --> 1:35:47.240 Outdoor and now I'm just on Outdoor. How many shows 1:35:47.280 --> 1:35:50.439 you make in a year, I'm down to eight right now. 1:35:51.320 --> 1:35:53.800 I'm the king of reruns on on on the on 1:35:53.880 --> 1:35:56.240 the network. I spend a lot of money producing my 1:35:56.320 --> 1:35:58.559 shows and places I go, you know, because I've done 1:35:58.640 --> 1:36:01.080 all the African Big Six with archery, tackle all that. 1:36:01.160 --> 1:36:04.000 I mean. IM I collect species. So I have over 1:36:04.040 --> 1:36:06.800 a hundred seventies some species right now with bow and 1:36:06.920 --> 1:36:10.360 arrow and so and all filmed and so. Yeah. So 1:36:10.520 --> 1:36:12.760 I'll go back a few years and pick up some 1:36:12.880 --> 1:36:15.400 of the older shows and maybe add a little bit 1:36:15.520 --> 1:36:18.240 more commentary tomb and then just rerun them and so that. 1:36:18.400 --> 1:36:21.000 So in first and second quarter, I'll rerun some of 1:36:21.080 --> 1:36:23.320 my older shows that are really cool, the better ones, 1:36:23.360 --> 1:36:25.920 the cream ones, and then I'll do the shows for 1:36:26.040 --> 1:36:29.639 the for the fall. Hundred and seventy how many years 1:36:29.640 --> 1:36:33.960 in your house? Uh? Over a hundred, you know. But 1:36:34.000 --> 1:36:37.639 I've quit mounting stuff today. I don't mount everything anymore. 1:36:38.120 --> 1:36:42.400 I've well, where are you gonna put them? What are 1:36:42.400 --> 1:36:44.320 you gonna do with them? You know, after you, after 1:36:44.400 --> 1:36:51.160 you die? Where they for dollar? It's it's not so 1:36:51.240 --> 1:36:52.679 much that I mean what I've been doing. It's something 1:36:52.720 --> 1:36:54.360 to going to waist anything. What I've been doing is 1:36:54.360 --> 1:36:57.400 a lot of the I've become popular enough and known 1:36:57.560 --> 1:36:59.559 enough that a lot of the outfitters are the places 1:36:59.600 --> 1:37:02.920 that I go hunt. Um, they would like to have them, 1:37:02.960 --> 1:37:04.280 and so they'll take a picture I mean with the 1:37:04.280 --> 1:37:05.960 animal like a hero shot, and then they'll have it 1:37:06.040 --> 1:37:07.840 mounted and put it in their in their lodge, and 1:37:07.880 --> 1:37:11.400 then they'll have my picture next there. There you go. 1:37:11.960 --> 1:37:15.320 It works out good. Yeah, box the new one. You 1:37:15.360 --> 1:37:18.760 guys are gonna get right land a jet in there 1:37:19.360 --> 1:37:22.240 with my my rooftop shooting range. I should keep quiet 1:37:22.280 --> 1:37:26.040 about that. We're gonna cut that one out. Do you 1:37:28.439 --> 1:37:34.720 when you're deal like, try to think how to do 1:37:34.840 --> 1:37:36.280 you have a lot of of the one? So you 1:37:36.320 --> 1:37:39.080 have a hundred animals and your thing? But do you 1:37:39.160 --> 1:37:41.000 have a lot that are that are tucked away here 1:37:41.000 --> 1:37:44.880 and there that you can't bring back home for legal reasons? No? 1:37:45.200 --> 1:37:47.519 Not really? Oh, I mean probably in South America. You know, 1:37:47.560 --> 1:37:49.080 there's a lot of animals that you shoot down there 1:37:49.080 --> 1:37:50.920 that you just can't export, no matter what. You know, 1:37:51.040 --> 1:37:53.400 like copy borrow with different different types of species like that. 1:37:53.680 --> 1:37:56.960 You can't bring a copy borrow no, No, like a 1:37:57.000 --> 1:38:00.240 white lipped peckery. Can you bring a pocket home? No? 1:38:00.320 --> 1:38:04.040 I don't think I've hunted some of that. We're working 1:38:04.120 --> 1:38:07.559 on that stuff right now for the for this spring. Yeah, 1:38:07.560 --> 1:38:09.519 we're going from We're gonna go hunt. We're gonna go 1:38:09.640 --> 1:38:14.599 hunt oscillated turkeys. Yeah. Yeah, I'll become a World Slam holders. 1:38:14.600 --> 1:38:15.960 Good for you? Does that make you jealous? Are you 1:38:16.000 --> 1:38:19.040 a World Slam turkey holder? I have five of the six, 1:38:24.520 --> 1:38:29.479 then I'm definitely not jealous. I'm gonna become a shotgun 1:38:30.120 --> 1:38:33.400 world Slam holder. Uh yeah. I want to bring home 1:38:33.479 --> 1:38:35.800 the tail fan. Oh yeah, I mean most people bring 1:38:35.800 --> 1:38:37.600 the whole damn thing home and get stuff that's a 1:38:37.600 --> 1:38:40.160 whout the tail fan. Probably the spurs probably just eat 1:38:40.200 --> 1:38:42.120 it right down there, probably eat it there. And then 1:38:42.280 --> 1:38:44.400 I want, how's it looking. You're you're looking into that 1:38:44.439 --> 1:38:47.840 bringing that tail fan home? Tail fans looking good? Some 1:38:47.960 --> 1:38:52.920 other complications with getting guns down there, though, well, because 1:38:52.920 --> 1:38:55.320 you didn't get on it quick enough. No, no, no, 1:38:57.400 --> 1:39:01.320 it's not definitely, that's not true. It's the it's money, 1:39:02.120 --> 1:39:06.679 it's expensive, different than going to hunt COO's dear in Sonora. 1:39:07.800 --> 1:39:10.479 From what I'm finding out, it's really hard to get 1:39:10.520 --> 1:39:13.200 information on it. Steve, I just had to use their 1:39:13.200 --> 1:39:16.639 shotguns down there. Yeah, because it's just a different anyways, 1:39:16.680 --> 1:39:18.760 it's a different area from where you guys go cuts 1:39:18.800 --> 1:39:20.960 back on the headaches just to use their shot Absolutely, 1:39:22.000 --> 1:39:24.200 when's the last time you killed a big game critter 1:39:24.479 --> 1:39:27.320 with a gun. Oh that's a great question. Thank you. 1:39:28.400 --> 1:39:31.400 I'm shot. I'm well, I'm trying. I mean, I guess 1:39:31.479 --> 1:39:34.040 people wouldn't consider coyotes. Um, you know, because I did 1:39:34.040 --> 1:39:36.400 a lot of hunting for coyotes. But I used to 1:39:36.479 --> 1:39:39.920 host a show on ESPN called Cabella's Sportsman's Quest, and 1:39:40.040 --> 1:39:44.400 the first year that had air, Um, they wanted me 1:39:44.520 --> 1:39:46.960 that we had sponsors that wanted me to use a gun, 1:39:47.320 --> 1:39:50.280 and so I shot three species on that show. I 1:39:50.320 --> 1:39:54.760 think I thought I shot a elk, uh mule deer 1:39:54.960 --> 1:39:59.320 and uh pronghorn with a rifle. And then the next no, 1:39:59.439 --> 1:40:00.920 I told him I didn't want to do it. Anymore 1:40:01.080 --> 1:40:03.560 that I just like, just you know, it's not that 1:40:03.640 --> 1:40:05.280 I'm against gun hunting. I'm not. It was just not 1:40:05.560 --> 1:40:08.080 my wheelhouse, you know. I like the bow hunting. I 1:40:08.200 --> 1:40:10.840 like to be known as the bow hunter, and just 1:40:11.040 --> 1:40:13.120 it was too easy. I mean, you know, for lack 1:40:13.160 --> 1:40:14.960 of a better way of putting it, you know, it's 1:40:16.040 --> 1:40:20.720 that's not offensive to me. That's a good thing. I 1:40:20.720 --> 1:40:24.000 don't want to get kicked out before the things. Yeah, 1:40:24.080 --> 1:40:26.040 we still got do we still got do the trivia episode. 1:40:26.640 --> 1:40:29.160 But so you just like it's just you like that 1:40:29.840 --> 1:40:34.200 like up close, difficult, heart pounding kind of. I think 1:40:34.479 --> 1:40:36.400 bow hunting is a conscious decision to make the hunt 1:40:36.439 --> 1:40:37.720 harder than it needs to be. You know, at two 1:40:37.760 --> 1:40:40.040 hundred yards, a guy can shoot the you know or farther. 1:40:40.120 --> 1:40:42.560 A lot of people have got these yard shots, but 1:40:42.640 --> 1:40:44.839 I mean a two hundred yards is when my stock begins, 1:40:45.040 --> 1:40:46.960 you know, and I need and I'm not the best, 1:40:47.000 --> 1:40:49.760 you know, I'm not a Randy Homer or someone who 1:40:49.800 --> 1:40:51.439 can shoot a whole out of a life saver at 1:40:51.520 --> 1:40:54.439 hundred yards, you know, Cameron Haynes somebody like that. You know, 1:40:54.600 --> 1:40:57.840 I'm I'm I'm losing my eyesight as quick as you 1:40:57.920 --> 1:41:00.400 are from what I hear with with all that, with 1:41:00.479 --> 1:41:06.599 all that, like that, with that archery, the Super Slam. Yeah, 1:41:06.640 --> 1:41:08.599 what was your average shot distance? If you had to guess, 1:41:11.080 --> 1:41:13.400 you should have lost you just like you get in there. Yeah, 1:41:13.840 --> 1:41:18.439 I don't like what's loot is a long shot for me? Yeah, 1:41:18.800 --> 1:41:23.920 and I and that's still a poke though, man, that's 1:41:23.920 --> 1:41:27.320 a poke. Yeah yeah yeah yeah, And the and that 1:41:27.439 --> 1:41:29.080 those are shot. You know, when I started doing more 1:41:29.120 --> 1:41:31.720 international hunting and more mountain hunting, you know, going after 1:41:31.800 --> 1:41:33.280 the sheep and goats and stuff like that, you've got 1:41:33.360 --> 1:41:35.160 to be able to make a longer shot or it's 1:41:35.160 --> 1:41:37.920 just you know, especially filming it. But you know, I 1:41:38.000 --> 1:41:40.560 mean the method to my madness was everything had to 1:41:40.600 --> 1:41:42.280 be on camera. I mean, that was the claim to 1:41:42.360 --> 1:41:45.679 fame for me. I mean, I'm the seventeenth archery Super slammer, 1:41:46.160 --> 1:41:48.479 So I'm the seventeenth guy to complete the archery Super 1:41:48.520 --> 1:41:50.519 Slam with a bow and arrow of course of its archery, 1:41:50.600 --> 1:41:53.439 but I'm the only guy to have all the kills 1:41:53.479 --> 1:41:56.479 on video. So I filmed all the hunts and so 1:41:56.920 --> 1:42:00.400 my my DVD set, the Super The Venture Bow Hunter 1:42:00.439 --> 1:42:03.280 SuperSlam has all twenty nine Arrow Impacts on it. It's 1:42:03.280 --> 1:42:06.000 a three DVD set that has all the stories behind 1:42:06.080 --> 1:42:08.000 all the twenty nine I had to go. Where do 1:42:08.120 --> 1:42:10.559 people find that? You can get it on my website 1:42:10.600 --> 1:42:12.280 at tom Randit dot com. But I mean it's sold 1:42:12.320 --> 1:42:14.120 at a lot of different stores as Cabell has sold 1:42:14.160 --> 1:42:16.120 it for ten years. I don't think they carry it now, 1:42:16.240 --> 1:42:18.800 but it's because it's an older it was made. I 1:42:18.880 --> 1:42:21.519 finished the Slam in two thousand and eleven and the 1:42:21.680 --> 1:42:25.000 the DVD came out soon after that. What's that one called. 1:42:25.800 --> 1:42:28.760 It's called Adventure bow Hunter SuperSlam tom My Quest of 1:42:28.800 --> 1:42:30.679 the Super Slam in Northern But it's all bundled together. 1:42:30.720 --> 1:42:33.000 It's all bundled together. Yeah, it's all three and one set. 1:42:33.080 --> 1:42:35.920 In fact, I have I also have Adventure bow Hunter 1:42:36.040 --> 1:42:39.920 Dark Continent, which is the African Slam thirty four species hunted, 1:42:40.080 --> 1:42:45.200 including the African Big Six which is elephant, hippo, ryano, cape, buffalo, lion, 1:42:45.280 --> 1:42:48.040 and leopard, plus all the other planes game. And then 1:42:48.080 --> 1:42:50.519 I have another one called World Hunts has forty four 1:42:50.600 --> 1:42:53.160 hunts on it, Narrow impacts of a lot of different 1:42:53.240 --> 1:42:56.080 kinds of sheep and species and whatnot. I need two 1:42:56.120 --> 1:42:59.920 more animals to finish scis conservation and hunting a war. 1:43:00.000 --> 1:43:02.120 It's the highest achievement that you can get in bow hunting. 1:43:02.280 --> 1:43:04.840 What are you missing? I believe it or not. I 1:43:05.000 --> 1:43:06.960 turned in all my animals thinking that I was going 1:43:07.000 --> 1:43:08.880 to get it um a year and a half two 1:43:08.960 --> 1:43:12.000 years ago, and the SCI came back to me and said, 1:43:12.000 --> 1:43:15.040 where's your introduced animals in North America category? And I'm like, 1:43:15.400 --> 1:43:17.560 introduced animals in North America? What are you kidding me? 1:43:17.600 --> 1:43:20.280 And if they go, you have to shoot eighteen species 1:43:20.320 --> 1:43:24.000 in the US that were introduced, and so I need to. 1:43:24.240 --> 1:43:28.360 I have two left to shoot, Like there's a whole 1:43:28.439 --> 1:43:31.720 list that you can shoot, and there's two I'm gonna shoot. Um, 1:43:32.160 --> 1:43:33.960 I think the last two. I think I'm gonna shoot 1:43:34.000 --> 1:43:37.920 a scimitar or X and maybe a Psycha deer. I 1:43:38.000 --> 1:43:39.800 think those would be two cool ones to have to 1:43:39.880 --> 1:43:43.000 be like the Maryland ones. Yeah, yeah, I got Yeah, 1:43:43.240 --> 1:43:45.080 I got a few of those with a muzzle loader. 1:43:45.200 --> 1:43:49.479 There you go, I missed them with my bow. Uh 1:43:50.320 --> 1:43:52.080 so you have you done like a like Neil guy? 1:43:52.280 --> 1:43:55.080 And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, That's what I've been doing. 1:43:55.120 --> 1:43:57.519 Those kind of huts, and I got many introduced big 1:43:57.560 --> 1:44:00.400 game animals they say are in the US. I think 1:44:00.439 --> 1:44:03.040 there's forty some on their list, but as a bow 1:44:03.120 --> 1:44:06.519 hunter only have to take eighteen. So yeah, ow man, 1:44:06.800 --> 1:44:09.760 the counting a lot of counting, well, and it's a 1:44:09.800 --> 1:44:11.640 lot of Yeah, it's a lot of chick in the 1:44:11.720 --> 1:44:13.439 boxes to do those things. I mean the s c 1:44:13.600 --> 1:44:17.200 I Award platform. When I finished my twenty nine, uh, 1:44:17.439 --> 1:44:20.519 the Super Slam, the North American ones, you wonder, well, 1:44:20.560 --> 1:44:22.280 what are you gonna do? Now? You know what what's 1:44:22.360 --> 1:44:25.160 the next on your agenda? And you know I had 1:44:25.360 --> 1:44:28.200 the SEI people. They called me and they said, um, 1:44:28.360 --> 1:44:30.679 we have four people that have completed the World Hunting 1:44:30.720 --> 1:44:33.720 Award ring with a bow. Um, we think you could 1:44:33.720 --> 1:44:35.559 be number five if we can come and measure your 1:44:35.600 --> 1:44:37.160 trophy room. Now I was a life member of s 1:44:37.200 --> 1:44:39.600 c I, but I had never scored. Anybody measure the 1:44:39.640 --> 1:44:41.959 trophy room. They want to come in and count my species, 1:44:42.000 --> 1:44:44.680 see what I got, you know, So they came. Two 1:44:44.760 --> 1:44:47.320 guys came from Tucson, spent two days in my trophy 1:44:47.400 --> 1:44:50.840 room on scaffolding, measuring animals that I had, looking at 1:44:50.920 --> 1:44:54.600 photos and we basically chronicled the animals I had, and 1:44:54.720 --> 1:44:57.720 they went back to Tucson and called me a few 1:44:57.760 --> 1:45:00.040 weeks later and said, you need thirty six speci. She 1:45:00.120 --> 1:45:02.200 used to finish the World Hunting Award Ring, and that 1:45:02.360 --> 1:45:04.360 was my next goal. It's like, okay, I'm gonna go 1:45:04.479 --> 1:45:07.000 for the World Hunting Award Ring. It took me, and 1:45:07.160 --> 1:45:09.400 it took me three years a little over three years 1:45:09.439 --> 1:45:11.040 to get it. In two thousand and sixteen, I got 1:45:11.080 --> 1:45:12.599 the World Hunting a Ward Ring. I'm the fifth guy 1:45:12.680 --> 1:45:14.599 to ever get it, and I have all my kills 1:45:14.640 --> 1:45:17.320 on video. Let's say you weren't. There's nothing left to chip, like, 1:45:17.400 --> 1:45:22.479 there's no sort of like outside validation stuff left right, 1:45:22.680 --> 1:45:26.680 there's no more lists or everyone on the planet dies whatever, Um, 1:45:27.200 --> 1:45:29.640 what would you want to hunt for? Then? Like like 1:45:29.760 --> 1:45:32.000 what like what do you like besides this sort of 1:45:32.040 --> 1:45:34.120 like getting a certification of some sort of like what 1:45:34.400 --> 1:45:38.280 what what is fun to you or what's worthwhile to you? 1:45:38.840 --> 1:45:41.519 I think once you've shot everything that you feel like 1:45:41.600 --> 1:45:44.519 you can you know that that that goal for me 1:45:44.680 --> 1:45:46.559 of you know, going somewhere I've never been and hunting 1:45:46.560 --> 1:45:48.920 an animal I've never seen. I think once I've completed 1:45:49.000 --> 1:45:51.839 that list, it's just gonna go back to the basics. 1:45:51.880 --> 1:45:53.599 So I'll be white tail hunting, you know. I mean 1:45:53.720 --> 1:45:56.320 that's in everybody's backyard. It's something to do, you know, 1:45:56.439 --> 1:45:59.439 and it's fun and white hole on. White tails are 1:45:59.640 --> 1:46:02.720 some way some of the harder animals to get. I mean, 1:46:02.800 --> 1:46:04.679 you can look at all the other species that they're 1:46:04.720 --> 1:46:07.280 out there, and a five and a half year old 1:46:07.280 --> 1:46:09.920 white tail is not an easy customer, you know, I 1:46:09.960 --> 1:46:18.760 mean even from a global respective perspectively. So true. Is 1:46:18.800 --> 1:46:20.880 there any kind of archery small game thing that you're 1:46:20.920 --> 1:46:24.760 into and there hasn't been because there hasn't really been 1:46:24.800 --> 1:46:26.880 any platform for it, you know, like going out and 1:46:26.920 --> 1:46:28.640 shooting rabbits or something. I mean, guys do a lot 1:46:28.680 --> 1:46:30.320 of that kind of stuff for fun, and there's a 1:46:30.360 --> 1:46:32.080 lot of different places. I mean, like if you go 1:46:32.160 --> 1:46:34.080 to New Zealand, for example, they have a list of 1:46:34.120 --> 1:46:36.240 about twenty different animals that you can hut down there, 1:46:36.280 --> 1:46:39.080 and they include a lot of the smaller stuff possums 1:46:39.120 --> 1:46:42.680 and you know, rabbits and stuff like that. Um. But 1:46:42.960 --> 1:46:46.240 for me, I it's it's been a business for me, 1:46:46.680 --> 1:46:48.080 you know. I think that's one of the reasons that 1:46:48.160 --> 1:46:50.160 my kids never really got involved, even though I took 1:46:50.240 --> 1:46:53.240 them on trips. I always had cameraman with me. We 1:46:53.320 --> 1:46:56.200 were always producing. Were always had to get the kill shot, 1:46:56.280 --> 1:46:57.960 you know, I had to get the hunting shot on videos. 1:46:58.080 --> 1:47:00.519 So it was more of a business for me. And 1:47:01.280 --> 1:47:04.800 so my hunting, especially my bow hunting, has never really 1:47:04.920 --> 1:47:07.680 been a sport that I took up and enjoyed and 1:47:07.800 --> 1:47:11.519 went out and hunted. It's always been a business. It's 1:47:11.560 --> 1:47:13.200 something that I had. I had to go out and 1:47:13.280 --> 1:47:15.320 I had to make a show about it. So you 1:47:15.400 --> 1:47:18.560 don't do like you don't you don't just go hunting. No, 1:47:19.720 --> 1:47:22.760 really that crazy. But I but I collect books. You 1:47:22.800 --> 1:47:24.639 know a lot of people think that's, oh my gosh, 1:47:24.720 --> 1:47:27.759 this guy's a nerd, you know, but it's it's like hunting. 1:47:28.280 --> 1:47:30.120 Try to find some of these old pirate books in 1:47:30.200 --> 1:47:32.519 the castle in London, you know what I mean. So 1:47:32.680 --> 1:47:34.519 it's like hunting to find some of this stuff and 1:47:34.600 --> 1:47:36.760 it you know, and it's a it's another obsession, you know, 1:47:37.240 --> 1:47:40.360 I mean, hunting for me, um has been in a 1:47:40.600 --> 1:47:42.320 bow hunting has been an obsession, you know, It's been 1:47:42.320 --> 1:47:44.400 an obsession to find a new species, find a new 1:47:44.439 --> 1:47:45.960 place to go, get it. A lot of people. If 1:47:45.960 --> 1:47:48.679 there's any people that really complain about, you know, Tom 1:47:48.800 --> 1:47:50.360 Rando this and Tom Rando that, it's the fact that 1:47:50.400 --> 1:47:52.320 I don't do a lot of self guided stuff, you know, 1:47:52.360 --> 1:47:55.000 I don't do a lot of of you know that 1:47:55.200 --> 1:47:57.280 type of hunting. And it's like, well, he could never 1:47:57.320 --> 1:47:58.880 shoot anything if he didn't have a guide with him, 1:47:58.920 --> 1:48:01.320 and that all the time, that criticism staying at all 1:48:01.360 --> 1:48:03.920 or don't you care? Well, you know, it's what it 1:48:04.000 --> 1:48:06.160 stings for me because I'm a trapper, you know, and 1:48:06.240 --> 1:48:08.120 I know exactly how to do all of it. But 1:48:08.200 --> 1:48:10.479 when you're trying to make a show, how can I 1:48:10.640 --> 1:48:13.040 go to Oregon and hunt blacktail deer? Thinking I know 1:48:13.160 --> 1:48:14.920 it all? I live in Florida. Do I know everything 1:48:14.920 --> 1:48:17.160 about blacktail? No? But when I'm doing a TV show 1:48:17.160 --> 1:48:19.400 about it, if I've got a good guide, a good outfit, 1:48:19.479 --> 1:48:21.320 or who can talk to me, I can learn from 1:48:21.439 --> 1:48:23.479 him and my audience can learn from him. And so 1:48:23.800 --> 1:48:26.320 that's how my shows are set up. I traveled to 1:48:26.400 --> 1:48:29.559 this new place. I'm gonna hunt this black Columbia blacktail deer. 1:48:29.760 --> 1:48:31.720 I'm gonna learn all about them in video, as many 1:48:31.760 --> 1:48:33.640 of them as I can and get one with a 1:48:33.680 --> 1:48:36.479 bow on video. And that's the premise of my shows. 1:48:37.040 --> 1:48:40.400 And so that's the business side of it, and that's 1:48:40.439 --> 1:48:42.280 why the shows. That's and I spend a lot of 1:48:42.360 --> 1:48:44.400 time and effort putting those shows together so that when 1:48:44.600 --> 1:48:46.320 people will watch him again. I mean, look how many 1:48:46.360 --> 1:48:49.000 times Duck Dynasty reruns, you know. So a lot of 1:48:49.080 --> 1:48:52.360 my shows replay and um and my ratings stay great 1:48:52.400 --> 1:48:55.400 and then and the networks are happy. So and I 1:48:55.560 --> 1:48:57.720 enjoy doing it still, which is a good thing. I think. 1:48:57.800 --> 1:48:59.280 You know, I've made my money at the end of 1:48:59.280 --> 1:49:00.680 the day. If I just I didn't want to do 1:49:00.720 --> 1:49:03.000 it anymore. Like quit, do you feel like you're removed 1:49:03.040 --> 1:49:06.040 from the experience because you feel like it's the business 1:49:06.120 --> 1:49:09.479 of it. It comes back to my my father and 1:49:09.840 --> 1:49:11.600 what he taught me about work, you know, and that 1:49:11.760 --> 1:49:13.680 it's the work ethic side of it. I enjoy it 1:49:13.800 --> 1:49:15.960 for the work ethic part of it. You know, you'd 1:49:16.000 --> 1:49:17.880 like to work. I like to work. I mean a 1:49:17.920 --> 1:49:21.400 workaholic for sure, and that's why I take on way 1:49:21.439 --> 1:49:23.680 too much more work than That's why I edit my 1:49:23.760 --> 1:49:25.680 own show. I mean, for havin sakes, I could turn 1:49:25.680 --> 1:49:28.360 it over to somebody else to do it, but I don't. 1:49:28.560 --> 1:49:31.040 They might do a better technical job than I would, 1:49:31.080 --> 1:49:33.400 but they won't tell a better story. And my my 1:49:33.640 --> 1:49:35.719 job is to connect with the audience of the story. 1:49:36.120 --> 1:49:38.000 So that's why I do it myself. How the hell 1:49:38.080 --> 1:49:44.439 did you um uh like, why rare books? I got 1:49:44.479 --> 1:49:46.840 to realize you had some you know, I got to 1:49:46.960 --> 1:49:48.920 you know, I was doing the Outdoor Adventure magazine show. 1:49:49.040 --> 1:49:51.280 I got to dive, do some shipwreck diving and some 1:49:51.360 --> 1:49:53.400 different things. I did a lot of different scuba divings 1:49:53.439 --> 1:49:55.960 and tri mix and you know, all these different types 1:49:56.000 --> 1:49:58.360 of diving, and I got to dive some Spanish galleons 1:49:58.400 --> 1:50:00.599 and stuff like that, and so like got like really 1:50:00.680 --> 1:50:03.599 interested in this stuff, like these old ships and cannons 1:50:03.640 --> 1:50:06.000 on the bottom of the reef, and so I started 1:50:06.040 --> 1:50:10.519 looking for books about treasure salvage and treasure hunting, and like, 1:50:10.640 --> 1:50:12.080 you know, I live in Florida. You know, we've got 1:50:12.120 --> 1:50:14.880 the Treasure Coast, and you know, and pirates. You know, 1:50:14.960 --> 1:50:17.760 there's islands nearby where I live in Florida that we're 1:50:17.800 --> 1:50:20.360 thought to have been, you know, homes to pirates. And 1:50:20.439 --> 1:50:21.880 so there was one thing that led to another, and 1:50:21.880 --> 1:50:24.360 eventually I did get more and more and more into 1:50:24.360 --> 1:50:26.080 the pirate books, and then I started finding out that 1:50:26.120 --> 1:50:28.760 there were old manuscripts and old books about pirates from 1:50:28.800 --> 1:50:31.720 way back, and so I started looking for some of those. 1:50:31.880 --> 1:50:35.560 And when you find them, and an old book is 1:50:35.640 --> 1:50:38.720 super cool because you can smell, you can smell the 1:50:38.840 --> 1:50:41.040 dampness in the pages, you know, and you can see, 1:50:41.560 --> 1:50:44.040 you can see how you know, just how the cover 1:50:44.280 --> 1:50:46.640 is and the you know, the leather bindings of it, 1:50:46.760 --> 1:50:49.360 and it's just they're so neat to have and to 1:50:49.479 --> 1:50:52.439 hold that history, and especially today where people are burning 1:50:52.479 --> 1:50:56.720 books and banning books and going to digital books and things, 1:50:56.840 --> 1:50:59.479 you know, these pieces of history like I have. I 1:50:59.560 --> 1:51:01.599 have a surt Francis Drake book I bought. I paid 1:51:01.680 --> 1:51:03.439 quite a bit of money for it. It's a one 1:51:03.479 --> 1:51:06.000 in five copy. It was just one that was one 1:51:06.040 --> 1:51:08.400 in five known copies of this book and I have, 1:51:09.200 --> 1:51:12.960 man it's you know, the other four copies are in institutions, 1:51:13.120 --> 1:51:16.280 you know. And this one happened to get be for 1:51:16.439 --> 1:51:19.640 sale from at a castle in England that was um 1:51:20.680 --> 1:51:22.479 wanting to sell that the owners were just going to 1:51:22.560 --> 1:51:23.920 sell all the books. That happened to be one that 1:51:24.000 --> 1:51:26.960 they had that I bought, so, you know, it's it's 1:51:27.000 --> 1:51:31.000 pretty cool. You know, some of them are so valuable. 1:51:31.040 --> 1:51:32.800 I don't even I hardly like look at them a 1:51:32.880 --> 1:51:36.080 little bit, Yeah, touch them and go through them. But no, 1:51:36.240 --> 1:51:38.280 I've read quite a few and I've I've learned a 1:51:38.320 --> 1:51:41.479 lot of history. And the more people find out that 1:51:41.560 --> 1:51:43.680 I have these books, the more people that contact me 1:51:43.760 --> 1:51:46.479 about you know, information that's in them or photos. A 1:51:46.560 --> 1:51:49.440 lot of these old pirate books and ship books, shipwrecks 1:51:49.520 --> 1:51:53.240 and uh, you know, voyages of discovery. They have a 1:51:53.320 --> 1:51:55.599 lot of really nice maps in them, old old maps, 1:51:55.680 --> 1:51:58.200 you know, from the fifteen six hundreds. They have a 1:51:58.280 --> 1:52:01.639 lot of different things in them that other people want, 1:52:01.800 --> 1:52:04.080 you know, other TV shows want so I can take 1:52:04.640 --> 1:52:07.120 and take photos and make copies of these things that 1:52:07.200 --> 1:52:10.679 they can use. So and um, a lot of times, 1:52:10.720 --> 1:52:12.439 you know, I buy some. You know, there's some old 1:52:12.600 --> 1:52:15.080 Kajars that have been out trying to find pirates and 1:52:15.200 --> 1:52:18.040 different things, and their family will contact me and I'll 1:52:18.080 --> 1:52:20.400 buy their old manuscripts where they've been out looking for 1:52:20.479 --> 1:52:23.160 the pirate and digging and finding graves of pirates and 1:52:23.200 --> 1:52:25.599 stuff like that. So, I mean, I'm building some material 1:52:25.680 --> 1:52:28.400 to maybe someday have a really cool book about the 1:52:28.479 --> 1:52:31.160 whole era of it and about the collecting side of it. 1:52:32.080 --> 1:52:37.360 What's your most what's your most valuable book? Mm hmm 1:52:38.320 --> 1:52:41.240 And where is it located? Well? I have it, Yeah, 1:52:42.520 --> 1:52:45.759 I have. UM, I have a first edition Buccaneers of America. 1:52:45.800 --> 1:52:48.559 It's in Dutch and it was written in sixteen seventy eight. 1:52:48.560 --> 1:52:51.439 It's not nearly my oldest book, but it's very very 1:52:51.479 --> 1:52:55.679 difficult copy and it's in an original binding, and so yeah, 1:52:55.800 --> 1:52:58.720 it's um. What's something like that worth? Yeah, it's um, 1:53:01.000 --> 1:53:03.040 you know, I'll tell you it's more than a couple 1:53:03.040 --> 1:53:05.439 of three polar Bear huts. Let's just call it that. 1:53:07.600 --> 1:53:13.320 Do you read Dutch? No, But you know, part of 1:53:13.400 --> 1:53:16.680 being a U you know, that's part of the obsession, 1:53:16.800 --> 1:53:18.120 part of me, you know. So I have to have 1:53:18.240 --> 1:53:20.280 the first edition in Spanish. I have to have the 1:53:20.360 --> 1:53:22.400 first edition in French. I have to first have the 1:53:22.439 --> 1:53:25.360 first edition in English. I heard you say, masso manos 1:53:25.720 --> 1:53:37.280 speak Spanish. That's right. Uh. You've also um probably written, um, 1:53:37.920 --> 1:53:41.680 your Master Trappers book. It's probably the most exhaustive thing 1:53:42.960 --> 1:53:47.560 to read, No, the most exhaustive thing on trapping in America, 1:53:48.720 --> 1:53:52.439 but I know about Yeah. I mean it's from the 1:53:52.520 --> 1:53:59.280 Mountain Men to the modern day, like long liner dudes. Yeah, yeah, dude, 1:53:59.320 --> 1:54:02.840 I said, like I love that thing. I said, like 1:54:03.080 --> 1:54:04.640 when I when I'm going to bed at night, I'll 1:54:04.720 --> 1:54:07.720 lay there and put my my new spectacles on and 1:54:07.800 --> 1:54:09.439 I'll just start like I don't even read it front 1:54:09.479 --> 1:54:10.960 to back. I just skim through it and read all 1:54:11.040 --> 1:54:13.360 kinds of junk. Look for people I figured must be 1:54:13.439 --> 1:54:16.200 in there, and there they are, guys I grew up 1:54:16.240 --> 1:54:18.760 reading and stuff. It's it's it's like it's a I 1:54:18.760 --> 1:54:22.000 don't know. It's a huge book called Master Trappers, and 1:54:22.120 --> 1:54:28.160 it's profiles well, it's like profiles on eras Hudson Bay Company, 1:54:28.520 --> 1:54:31.160 the Mountain Man era. But as you progressed, it's profiles 1:54:31.240 --> 1:54:35.720 on just like every notable trapper, and then not everybody, 1:54:35.920 --> 1:54:38.919 many of the notable trappers, all elements of the business, 1:54:39.280 --> 1:54:45.160 animal damage control, government stuff, interspersed with Tom's like evolution, 1:54:45.400 --> 1:54:52.320 schoolboy trapper, professional trapper, airborne trapper, on into phasing out 1:54:52.360 --> 1:54:54.040 of that and into the hunting world. I mean, it's 1:54:54.040 --> 1:54:56.480 a really interesting book, man. Yeah. Thanks. If I hadn't 1:54:56.480 --> 1:54:57.840 known you were reading it, at night in bed. I 1:54:57.840 --> 1:54:59.600 would have put a fold out map in it for you. 1:55:02.160 --> 1:55:05.480 It's solid and it's it's uh. I think it's a 1:55:05.520 --> 1:55:08.440 phenomenal book. I became aware of it because some of 1:55:08.520 --> 1:55:13.680 the equipment I buy all buy on Minnesota trapline products. Um, 1:55:14.200 --> 1:55:16.880 we've talked a bunch about like the MB you know, 1:55:17.000 --> 1:55:20.640 Minnesota brand traps and whatnot. You'd go on there. I didn't. 1:55:20.640 --> 1:55:25.120 And I had no idea that dude, Yeah he's chronicled 1:55:25.120 --> 1:55:28.520 down there as well. Yeah, that dude his history as 1:55:28.560 --> 1:55:32.520 a trapper absolutely and like wildland firefighter. But I had 1:55:32.560 --> 1:55:35.840 no idea that he was a like bound up in 1:55:35.920 --> 1:55:38.800 that whole thing. You know. The book was. It was 1:55:38.840 --> 1:55:41.600 a labor of love. I started it in two thousand fourteen, 1:55:42.360 --> 1:55:45.240 um actually because the Trapper Predator call our magazine called 1:55:45.280 --> 1:55:48.000 me and they said, would you consider writing a book 1:55:48.480 --> 1:55:50.960 about trapping a little bit of the trapping history for us? 1:55:51.760 --> 1:55:53.600 And I said, you know, that's a you know, that's 1:55:53.600 --> 1:55:56.520 a big that's a big thing. That's a lot of work. 1:55:56.560 --> 1:55:58.320 I'm not sure that I want to do that. They go, well, 1:55:58.400 --> 1:56:00.160 we we would saw a bunch of him, and we 1:56:00.240 --> 1:56:01.680 think you would be the guy to do it for us. 1:56:01.840 --> 1:56:03.560 Your name on it would really make a make a 1:56:03.680 --> 1:56:06.840 point for us and anyway, so I agreed to do it. 1:56:06.960 --> 1:56:08.480 I did a contract with them, and then like a 1:56:08.560 --> 1:56:10.400 few months later, they said, now you know, we the 1:56:10.480 --> 1:56:12.800 trapping business is going down. We've decided that we don't 1:56:12.800 --> 1:56:14.640 want to do the project anymore. Why it started it 1:56:14.680 --> 1:56:17.240 and made the outlines and everything that's seriously happened and 1:56:17.320 --> 1:56:20.000 they and eventually eventually Trapper prettor Call magazine was sold 1:56:20.040 --> 1:56:21.800 out and was bought by other people. So it was 1:56:21.880 --> 1:56:23.760 like there, I think there was more to it than 1:56:23.840 --> 1:56:26.680 just the trapping business going down. But anyways, I shelved 1:56:26.840 --> 1:56:32.760 the idea until oh gosh, two thousand twenty and UM, 1:56:32.840 --> 1:56:34.960 I get this call. This phone rings like eight o'clock 1:56:35.000 --> 1:56:36.320 at night, and I look at it and I don't 1:56:36.360 --> 1:56:38.280 recognize the number, and normally I don't take it, but 1:56:38.360 --> 1:56:40.480 I'm like, I don't know who this is, I'm gonna 1:56:40.480 --> 1:56:41.680 take it. So I took the call and it was 1:56:41.760 --> 1:56:44.160 from some I can't remember the man's name, but he 1:56:44.240 --> 1:56:47.680 was from the National Trappers Association and he said, UM, 1:56:47.920 --> 1:56:49.600 I'd like to talk to you about if you can 1:56:49.640 --> 1:56:52.640 come to the Trappers convention this year in two thousand, 1:56:52.800 --> 1:56:56.760 two thousand twenty Trappers Convention, which was in July. Well, 1:56:56.840 --> 1:57:01.200 obviously it was, um, it was the COVID thing, you know, 1:57:01.320 --> 1:57:02.640 there was all the COVID thing, or maybe it was 1:57:02.680 --> 1:57:04.920 two thousand twenty one. No, it's two thousand twenty when 1:57:04.920 --> 1:57:06.880 the COVID hit in March at two thousand twenty. So yeah, 1:57:06.920 --> 1:57:08.600 I was like, in July was when the event was 1:57:08.640 --> 1:57:10.839 going to be, but it was it was eventually canceled. 1:57:10.880 --> 1:57:14.040 But anyway, he says, um, he goes. I said, man, 1:57:14.120 --> 1:57:15.760 I haven't been to a trap convention a long time, 1:57:15.840 --> 1:57:18.240 data DA And he's like, well, he goes, we voted 1:57:18.280 --> 1:57:20.200 you into the Hall of Fame, the Trappers Hall of Fame. 1:57:20.240 --> 1:57:23.560 I hadn't said a trap since nine, you know, and 1:57:23.640 --> 1:57:25.720 here I'm getting voted into the Trappers Hall of Fame. 1:57:25.920 --> 1:57:28.400 It's like, well, why, you know, what's up with that? 1:57:28.560 --> 1:57:30.600 And they go, well, it's just all the years of 1:57:30.680 --> 1:57:33.400 you promoting trapping through your TV shows and the fact 1:57:33.440 --> 1:57:35.080 that you were one of the first guys to do 1:57:35.160 --> 1:57:37.600 the videos and everything. So anyway, I hang up the 1:57:37.600 --> 1:57:39.120 phone from him, like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be 1:57:39.160 --> 1:57:41.000 in the Trappers Hall of Fame. This is which was 1:57:41.200 --> 1:57:42.960 just this huge honor to me. I mean, that's as 1:57:43.000 --> 1:57:45.280 good as it gets. And I thought, you know, I'm 1:57:45.280 --> 1:57:47.320 gonna bring that book out. I'm gonna bring that book 1:57:47.320 --> 1:57:49.240 out and look at my old notes of it from 1:57:49.400 --> 1:57:51.480 two thousand fourteen. So I did. I brought that book 1:57:51.480 --> 1:57:52.760 out and I looked at it and I looked what 1:57:52.880 --> 1:57:56.240 I had going, and I thought, it's COVID. All my 1:57:56.320 --> 1:57:58.840 trips are canceled. Now I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna 1:57:58.920 --> 1:58:00.520 do it. Did you have a team of people that 1:58:00.560 --> 1:58:01.920 you worked on it with? No. I did it totally 1:58:01.960 --> 1:58:04.280 by myself and was sitting in my trophy room. Seriously 1:58:05.680 --> 1:58:08.280 that seriously did that. You wrote all those profiles, everything 1:58:09.400 --> 1:58:12.040 start to finish, never hired anybody to help, you know. 1:58:13.000 --> 1:58:17.760 Damn dude likes working, you know, and I you know, 1:58:17.840 --> 1:58:19.800 it was good. But the thing is is the book 1:58:19.880 --> 1:58:22.360 is about you know that there's history in the book, um, 1:58:22.760 --> 1:58:26.720 but it's really it's the book is actually a tribute 1:58:26.760 --> 1:58:29.640 to all the people that I learned how to trap 1:58:29.760 --> 1:58:32.839 from from the earlier that that gave me interest in trapping. 1:58:32.920 --> 1:58:35.200 I mean, there's there's a part in there about Jeremiah 1:58:35.280 --> 1:58:38.640 Johnson's movie you know that Jeremia Johnson. Yeah, there's parts 1:58:38.640 --> 1:58:41.760 in there. I think parts of it that people touch, 1:58:41.840 --> 1:58:44.360 all the trappers that you know that have the because 1:58:44.400 --> 1:58:46.600 there is a romance to trapping. There's a little bit 1:58:46.600 --> 1:58:49.080 of a romance to it for people who have done 1:58:49.120 --> 1:58:52.360 it before to look back. And because trapping every morning 1:58:52.440 --> 1:58:54.120 is like Christmas. You don't know what you're gonna catch. 1:58:54.240 --> 1:58:55.840 You know, is it gonna be an empty trapper? You're 1:58:55.840 --> 1:58:57.480 gonna have a silver fox in it? What are you 1:58:57.520 --> 1:59:00.760 gonna get? So it's kind of a The book is 1:59:00.840 --> 1:59:04.280 kind of a motivational book to take somebody who used 1:59:04.320 --> 1:59:06.840 to trap and to bring back all those memories. But 1:59:07.240 --> 1:59:09.000 it was a tribute to the guys I learned how 1:59:09.040 --> 1:59:10.800 to trap from the books I bought, the books I 1:59:10.880 --> 1:59:16.840 read the people that influenced to me. Man's a nostalgic enterprise. Man. Uh, 1:59:16.960 --> 1:59:19.920 there's a hundred ways tell people where to find you know, 1:59:19.960 --> 1:59:22.160 how to find your book and and uh, I don't know, 1:59:22.200 --> 1:59:23.840 that's a long list of ways to find you, but 1:59:24.160 --> 1:59:27.280 hit people with like how'll track you down on social media? 1:59:28.320 --> 1:59:32.160 How to find your Adventure Bowl hunting book Master, trappers, 1:59:32.640 --> 1:59:37.080 you know. Yeah, mostly if I'm on social media, I 1:59:37.200 --> 1:59:40.120 have a I have a small Instagram thing. For some reason, 1:59:40.160 --> 1:59:41.880 I'm not that good on the phone, so I do 1:59:42.040 --> 1:59:44.800 a little laptop and on the laptop I do Facebook, 1:59:44.840 --> 1:59:49.560 and so my Facebook adventure bow Hunter. You can find 1:59:49.600 --> 1:59:51.840 my page there. I have lots of videos on there. 1:59:52.280 --> 1:59:54.520 Um or Tom Miranda dot com, which is where my 1:59:54.600 --> 1:59:58.320 store is. That's easy to find Tom Miranda dot com. UM. 1:59:58.440 --> 2:00:01.120 I have over five TV show os on my website 2:00:01.160 --> 2:00:03.760 that you can watch for free. Um. And then in 2:00:03.880 --> 2:00:07.000 my store, I had my books they and I have 2:00:07.120 --> 2:00:08.800 the Super Slam Book I wrote in two thousand and 2:00:08.840 --> 2:00:10.680 eleven when I finished. People can find your books on 2:00:10.720 --> 2:00:13.760 Amazon too, right like I think I can't remember. Yeah, 2:00:13.800 --> 2:00:17.200 there's some we've seen them on Minnesota Minnesota trap Line Products. Yeah, 2:00:17.240 --> 2:00:19.280 you can get them from Tim Caban at Minnesota trap 2:00:19.320 --> 2:00:23.000 Line Products or direct or direct from me at Tom 2:00:23.120 --> 2:00:26.400 Randa dot com. And that the Trapping Book is there too. 2:00:26.840 --> 2:00:28.760 And I signed all the books that anybody that buys 2:00:28.760 --> 2:00:30.600 a book from me on my website, I signed for him. 2:00:32.000 --> 2:00:36.400 So I'm almost into my third printing, so it's sold 2:00:36.440 --> 2:00:39.360 to too. Full printings of those trapper books. That's great. 2:00:39.400 --> 2:00:42.200 It's been really really good, and lots of lots of 2:00:42.240 --> 2:00:46.560 people have really sent me some long heartfelt messages about 2:00:46.600 --> 2:00:48.480 how it really brought back the old days in the 2:00:48.560 --> 2:00:51.440 trapping to them. How cocky are you feeling about the 2:00:51.480 --> 2:00:54.680 trivia show we're going to record next. I don't know 2:00:55.160 --> 2:00:57.360 if I'm going to be that cocky about it, but um, 2:00:57.600 --> 2:00:59.440 I might have an answer or two up my sleeve. 2:00:59.520 --> 2:01:02.120 What do you think, math, I'm expecting a strong performance, Spencer. 2:01:02.240 --> 2:01:05.680 I have to our most well traveled guests are most 2:01:06.080 --> 2:01:09.880 accomplished bow hunting guest. I think that sets him up. Well, Oh, 2:01:10.680 --> 2:01:16.080 you've seen a lot. We also recently upped our Now, 2:01:16.760 --> 2:01:20.880 let me teach you something here, Steve. We have a 2:01:21.000 --> 2:01:23.840 big announcement coming up on the Trivia episode that we 2:01:23.840 --> 2:01:29.000 will tell you about. Remember our conversation about over selling stuff. 2:01:29.200 --> 2:01:32.680 That's my job. A big announcement that Steve is not 2:01:32.800 --> 2:01:35.680 going to reveal right now. Alright, ladies, gentlemen, Tom random 2:01:37.400 --> 2:01:39.720 check the next We're not done with Tom. We're gonna 2:01:39.760 --> 2:01:43.960 do uh media to trivia game on Soccers. It'll serve 2:01:44.080 --> 2:01:48.440 up to you soon and it will I'm expecting just 2:01:49.000 --> 2:01:51.960 I'm expecting a dominating performance from Tom Random. I like it, 2:01:53.400 --> 2:01:53.920 Stay tuned,