WEBVTT - The Alanis of Drag (feat. Charlene Incarnate) 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:09.840 I have homosexuals who I hit up for advice for numbers, 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:13.400 but these are gold Star Gaze and not in the 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:15.560 never Touched a Vagina since you know what I mean. 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:25.920 In the like saw Diva's Live as it aired, I 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:34.280 want you to know that this episode is uh that 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:41.080 owned Jaggon Little Kids. You're trying not to corner yourself 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.440 as the singer on this podcast. Do you really want 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.200 to be the songstress of Like a Vision? Today we'll 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.400 be taking a look back at Atlantis Morrisett's Jagged Little Pill, 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:53.120 because this is like a Virgin, the show where we 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:57.520 give yesterday's pop culture today's taste. I'm Rose Damn and 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.920 I'm Fran Toronto here to talk about Jagged Little Hill. 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:05.840 With us is show girl, high priestess, emphasis on high 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:11.840 drag artist and Miga Judy, Charlene and Karnet. I will say, 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:14.840 you know, Rose, before we have to get into Jagged 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.959 Little Pill. Should we go touday Nio? Yes, let's take 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:23.080 a trip down the Nile? But will there be enough champagne? Yes? 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:31.840 I actually brought enough champagne to fill the Nile. I 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:38.120 have to say I'm kind of um gal gado. Stand now, girl, 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.360 We are going to put you into G G. A. 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:46.040 Galagado holes and I wait. So this weekend, Fran and 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.960 I saw Death on the Nile Um with our friend 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:52.040 La La, and as we were walking out, we were, 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.080 you know, doing that thing where you leave a movie 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:58.000 and everyone's like starting to say what they wait, wait, wait, 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:01.840 wait wait I have okay, I just have to say, like, 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:06.120 I experienced this movie being like, this must be one 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.919 of the worst movies I've seen in a minute. And 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:11.520 that is and that is sort of the vibe you 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.120 and Lala started to give off as we were leaving, 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:18.239 and I said, I loved it. And y'all, I thought 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:20.000 you were going to not give me a ride home 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:24.680 because of that. Our experiences of that movie were dramatically different, 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:26.960 let's say that. And yeah, I was sitting next to 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.640 you the whole time laughing, well because I was, I was, 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:35.160 you know, making some commentary throughout the film, like when 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.839 when spoiler alert, gal Gado is killed, I said, army 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.680 hammer is going to go fire up the grill, Oh god, 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.600 like very quickly. We have to just kind of like 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:49.320 you know, in the pot. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, gal Gado, 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.400 you know, is a wealthy billionaire with a colonialist hobby 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:57.040 for like, you know, exploring Egypt, and she and her 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:02.160 mail order bride army Hammer decide to you know, invite like, okay, 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:06.959 but you do, didn't You actually buried a very important part, 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.000 which is that army Hammer who marries from getting there, 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.160 I'm getting there, I'm getting Do not trust me at all? 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.400 Do you not trust me? I don't trust you literally 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:21.360 at all. That is rich coming from someone who threatens 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:25.200 to kill me almost every podcast. Yeah, and you know what, 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.720 I would get away with it, and because because Pole 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:32.280 is not coming to save you know, you would not 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.600 get away with it because at the end of an 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.760 Agatha Christie novel, the person who is most obviously the 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:43.760 killer is the killer and there are hours of audio 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:48.640 recordings of me threatening to kill you. So anyways that 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:50.880 they invite you know a few dozen of their like 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.200 most mortal enemies to their wedding, and of course their 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:58.760 wedding takes place on Zeni Um and there's like this 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:03.040 kind of likes best friend played by an actress who 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:05.600 I really love but only referred to her as baby 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:08.880 Margot Rubbie Um keeps showing up at everywhere they go 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.360 and just like staring at them, and so Armie Hammer 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.560 and Gal Gadot put out a call to find what 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:20.440 is basically like the detective with the most absurdest steampunk 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:26.480 mustache they could possibly find. And this detective accuses literally 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:31.680 every single character of murder until he gets it right 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.680 on the last try. Five people die and he outs 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.920 to lesbians. Three people die. Um, he does out to 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:46.280 lesbians forcibly. And I did think that at the end 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:48.640 of the movie when they all like get off the boat, 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:50.360 that he was going to be like, by the way, 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:55.840 the police are here to arrest you. So okay, top line, 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.960 I loved it. I had a great time. I as 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.440 I tried to explain to frand you know, this is 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:07.840 not a thriller mystery with modern sensibilities. This is an 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:14.320 Agatha Christie who done it. And the movies specifically are 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:18.799 very much made for a kind of boomer sensibility, people 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.640 who are familiar with Agatha Christie novels and want to 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:26.599 see a very faithful, lush adaptation of them. And I 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.520 guess I'm a boomer because I really enjoyed it. Well 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.680 that's not that's not news to anybody. I really feel 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.200 like that I'm a boomer. Yeah, you're a boomer. You 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.920 literally are no offense Rose. The movie delivered on what 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:45.040 I signed up for during a completely displaced, kind of 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.320 almost sex scene between Army Hammer and gal Gadot that 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.400 takes place on an Egyptian ruin, because the Egyptian ruins. 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.960 That was great. The Egyptian ruins make them so horny, 0:05:56.000 --> 0:06:00.520 they literally cannot control themselves around all of these dead 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.880 like mummies, and gal Gato like backs up on it, 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:05.960 backs up as if she's like, she's like, do me 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:11.960 doggy style literally, and that's not an exaggeration, and and 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:15.720 gal is so it is so poorly blocked. They did 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.440 maybe two takes and they were like, yeah, we got it. 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:23.680 That look. That was just imagine Kenneth Brana directing that. Also, Man, 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:25.920 I had never heard of Fran did not know who 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.120 Kenneth Branna was. I have talked about Kenneth Branna to 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:30.680 a few other people and they didn't know who he 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:33.120 was either. So I think that you're just exactly the 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:37.320 demographic for Kenneth Brannah. Yeah, I'm a boomer, Yeah, exactly 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.880 exactly when I signed When I signed up for a mystery, 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:45.440 you would think that there would be you know, twists, turns, 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:51.479 red Herrings. Clues dropped along the way like scandalous like 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.520 reveals and moments where like oh my god, and they 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.640 were like three of those like there, Yeah, it doesn't 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:02.120 really do that. There's the the miss The clues are 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.559 not really telegraphed to the audience. And also, like let's 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:09.479 say spoiler alert, the people who end up being the 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:14.840 killers are like mostly it's it's like the most obvious 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.600 choice for who done. And Rose can vouch for me. 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:23.640 The first clue dropped, literally the very first clue with 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:27.120 that is, in my opinion, telegraphed to the audience. I 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:30.280 turned to Rose and I said it's so and so 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:33.480 and so and so, and Rose goes, well, and she 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:35.880 was right like it would be way too obvious, and 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.960 I was kind of like, yeah, it would be too obvious, 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:43.840 and that your frand are you are the acu pire 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:47.960 of our time? Okay, well, let me just grow out 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:53.480 a super steampunk mustache. I will say I enjoyed all 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.520 of the performances in this film, with the exception of 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:58.400 Russell Brands, which I thought was very flat. And then 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.760 also there's a character name I thought, and Gal was 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.040 kind of fun. I thought gal was so fun. I 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.440 thought she was almost perfectly cast, like I think casting 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.360 someone who's gorgeous and kind of bad acting, it's like 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:12.560 perfect for a mystery. And all Tomargo Robbie was good. 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.040 She was stunning. I felt like, you know, that was 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.680 there was nothing wrong with like necessarily that. I thought 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:21.280 all the performances were good. I just thought it was 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:26.040 a really poorly constructed movie that was completely like it 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.000 was virtually joyless. Well, I was very I was filled 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.960 with joy watching it, especially because of gal Gado's livery 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:37.040 of and enough champagne to fill the nile, which was 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.880 as satisfying as I thought it would. Well. When we 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:43.000 walked out of this movie, I was just stunned because 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:45.200 I was like, I was like, we just watched a 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:49.160 two hour like movie that was so so bad and 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.880 the only reason we saw it was for one single tweet. 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:58.080 Literally literally, I had no plans of seeing this, and 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:02.480 I saw the video people reacting to that line on 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:04.960 Twitter last week and was like, we have to go, 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.640 we have to go, which we did decide what as 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:12.240 we were watching drag Race last week, which I am 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:18.640 still so confused by this week's episode of drag Race. Why, 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:22.840 I don't understand what the judges were thinking in their 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:27.480 choices of the tops and bottoms and the winner. So 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:29.840 I mean, if you don't watch drag Race this week, 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:34.120 it was it was an unconventional materials design challenge and 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.880 the looks were mostly bad, and one of the worst 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.280 ones was the one that won. The look that Georgia 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:46.960 has made. How it's extremely obvious that this is like 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.000 a tool of production and that they're trying to like 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:54.920 stoke tensions between the queens by making them jealous and confused. 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:59.240 It's like literally psychological warfare, and they are clearly not 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.520 picking the winner so that they can just stir the pot. 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:06.679 But this is drastic even for drag Race, because Georgia's 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.439 look is so literally look at the material, yes, exactly, 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:13.679 like look at the material. I would feel differently if 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.960 it was just one. But they gave positive critiques to 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:21.040 like two or three of like the worst looks. Ever, 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.840 I don't understand what the judges see and Desa I 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:28.280 don't either. That she was wearing curtain and all of 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.920 her runways have been totally lackluster and she's a seamstress, 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:34.680 and all of the looks that she She's always saying 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.520 I made this, and it's like, well, you shouldn't have, 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:41.280 because and she is one of the most like she's 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.840 kind of one of the most like entitled, and like 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:47.000 she's really like grumpy about a lot of things and 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.839 like she but she's an amazing lip sinker. And I 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:53.600 think that we were totally robbed of the experience of 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.920 Georgia's and Asia lip sinking to Sugar Mama. That would 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:01.760 have been on real, that would have been unreal, and 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.800 it would have been but Maddie, Maddie had to be 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.160 in the bottom. No, I mean, and she had to 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.319 go her time. I disagree. If I was in production, 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:12.480 I would have been like, let's keep Maddie another week 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.840 because she's good for TV. Let's send Aja home and 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.360 they're going to have a dope ass lip sync to 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.480 Sugar Mama, Like that would have been incredible, Like and 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.440 I want to see George's lip sync like five more times, 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.640 and so does Rue like she keeps saying it, you know, yeah, 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.000 I do think. I do just think that, like the 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:34.760 narrative of Maddie, like they probably felt like they had 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.840 gotten everything they could out of it, because like even 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:40.920 though there was like a lot of hubbub at the 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:45.040 beginning of the season about her, like it didn't really continue. 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.720 There wasn't a lot of drama around her being straight, 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.640 and like, you know, she had a fight with Jasmine 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.360 in Untucked this week, and so I think like they've 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.160 gotten all the mileage they could out of her storyline. 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.600 But I do think, like I'm just so mystified because 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:03.760 I really felt like a lot of the girls who 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.440 were safe should have been in the top, especially Willow. 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:09.600 I think she should have won. Her look was the best. 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.680 I thought Willow or Angeria should have won, and Jeria, Yeah, Anderia, 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:17.160 Willow and Juria right now are definitely my front runners, 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.040 Like I think they will be in the top three, 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.800 unless I am worried that the screen time we're seeing 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:28.080 around how like exhausted Willow is Like I wonder if 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:32.160 that's threading a plot line that will like pay off 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:36.760 in quotation marks with her like having to leave the competition, 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:41.320 which would be horrible, you like, but you know drag races, 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.520 like they're so heavy handed with editing that that's my 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:49.600 immediate fear. But I do think she can and should 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:52.280 go all the way to them. I agree. I think 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:54.800 that you and I are both rooting for Willow to win. 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.240 To be honest, I mean, Anderia is worthy of the Wind, 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:01.000 but like willows story in the Wind is like so good, 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:04.199 and I do think that what Willow does is more singular, 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.000 you know. And Geria has an excellency in the kind 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:12.320 of pageant queen nous that she is. But we've never 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.679 seen a queen like Willow before. Angeria will be great 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:19.000 on All Stars. Yeah, exactly seven or whatever number we're 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:22.760 out now. Anyways, are you listening to the the new 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:29.800 Competraus album. I have listened to slaptop Dara, ask your thoughts. Yeah, 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:33.400 it's fun, you know, I don't think it's anything like groundbreaking. 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.800 It's also what like fifteen minutes long. I like the 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:39.720 vibe of it because I like that it's like this 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:46.120 dirty Berlin like house that is obviously reminiscent of the 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.920 of her Halloween album, which is obviously her best album 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:53.160 no skips, point blank period. But like, I think this 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.200 album is like I mean, I think the first two songs, 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.560 which I consider basically one song, are like nice. I 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:03.120 think not that Kim Petris has ever been a master 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:07.360 of lyrics, but like the fact that every song is 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:12.880 kind of this like gay idiot culture algorithm generated kind 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.840 of like slut anthem. Yeah, it's like she she like 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.840 went and took a bunch of tweets and put them 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.000 set them to music. Yeah, and I know it's very 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.760 aware of itself, like Kim is playing a cartoon. She 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:29.240 knows exactly what she's doing, Like I see the character. 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.240 I just I wondered, like to what end this this 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.880 like kind of music continues on, you know what I mean, 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.080 Like I don't I see a point of view, and 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:40.120 I think it's really funny. And there are certainly some 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.360 kind of like Mimi bops, like I don't know if 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:46.440 you saw that TikTok of like Kirby from like Nintendo, 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:48.360 like sucking up a bunch of things to throat go. 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:53.000 Have you seen that? It's very funny. Um, But yeah, 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.680 I wonder how long she'll kind of keep that joke going. 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.520 I wonder, like who knows that she's in on the 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.120 joke and who thinks that this is genuinely her music. 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.840 It feels like it has the potential to pigeonhole her 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:09.760 sort of the same way that doing her Halloween EPs, 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.320 which I think are some of her best music kind 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.320 of pigeon holed her as like spooky Halloween girl, But 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.920 I don't think I think the thing. Actually, I think 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:23.240 that no one has done that since like Michael Jackson's Thriller, 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:25.720 you know what I mean, No one's dropping Halloween, you 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.360 know what I mean. I just wonder it's very singular. Yeah, 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.560 I just wonder like where this is coming from, Like 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.920 is it actually the music she wants to be making 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.720 or has she felt like she's hitting a wall in 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.160 terms of what her like mainstream kind of pop offerings 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.720 can do to advance her career. So she's like doubling 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.640 down on being a kind of niche gay pop star 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:52.560 two minute bimbo bops, you know the other pop girlies 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:57.440 who are like in the Kim sphere, Charlie is making 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:01.840 songs that I'm hearing on the radio, and like Caroline 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:05.160 is getting all of this, you know, mainstream like you know, 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:11.120 kind of credible music attention, and Kim is like making 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:17.160 TikTok songs. Yeah that said, Coconuts slaps Love Love that single. 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.920 And then of course you know there's still the stink 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.680 of Dr Luke wafting over it all. Yeah, okay. Also, 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:28.560 Jasmine Sullivan released a deluxe version of Hotels Very Good. 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:31.200 Obviously Hurt Me So Good, I think is the standout 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.160 from it. And then also, do you ever listen to Ravenna? 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.480 Ravenna is like she reminds me a little a little 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:42.520 bit of like Corinne Bailey Ray, maybe like really early 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:46.120 Solange at your record. Yeah, it's kind of like that. 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.760 It's kind of like these really feel good R and 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.040 B inspired, like positivity bops. They're kind of like self 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.320 care bops kind of. I think a lot of the 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.920 songs are really wonderful as a as a total album, 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:59.760 it just flows really nicely together. My favorite is Kathy 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.800 Left Katman Do, which I think is just such a 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:10.080 fun song. The album ends with a thirteen minute guided meditation, which, um, 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:14.200 I mean, I won't be listening. I don't know if 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.919 I definitely tells us who she is as an artist, 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:32.639 but the rest of album is is wonderful. You know, 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.560 Atlantis was actually a hip hop artist before Jagged Little Pill. 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:40.320 She was she was, And that's something that to know 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.840 about Atlantis is that a part of what makes her 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.240 not only one of the creators of one of the 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.560 great rock albums of all time, but also a creator 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:51.600 of one of the great gay albums of all time? 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:53.800 Is that kind of first and foremost, she did want 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.080 to be famous. She was doing the grind. There's actually 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:01.080 a lyric in her most recent album where she complains 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.440 about how she's been working since she can remember, since 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:09.440 she was single, digits um and so there was intention. 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:14.639 There was an intention to be a star or someone 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.280 of great significance or influence. Rather, well, that's something that's 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:20.720 something that seems like it must have resonated for you, 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.320 because I think you do everything you do with intention. 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.160 I mean, listeners, if you don't know her, our guest 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:32.880 Charlene and Karnate is an incredible Brooklyn based performer, and 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.840 as long as I have known you, I feel like 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:42.480 everything you do is very intentional, like declaration of your 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.200 taste and point of view and identity. And so you're 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:49.399 trying to draw parallels between Atlantis and I already at 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.879 the top of the show, I am because because I 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.040 do want to know, like what what was your when 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:58.760 did you find So that's the thing, that's the that's 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:00.800 the thing is like what a do you approach this 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:02.960 conversation from? Because like I said, it's a great It 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:04.600 was one of the great undeniably one of the great 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:11.320 rock American rock albums, but also incidentally and curiously one 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.439 of the great gay albums. You know. I when I 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:19.040 saw Atlanta's this summer at Jones Beach, it really unfolded 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.320 for me, Like how hard she actually rocks and how 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.399 like I wasn't expecting her fan base to like be 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.439 a lot of straight people. I was expecting it to 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:31.080 be dolls. And at Jones Beach, what was the vibe? 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:37.000 There were girls like me? I gotta say, they weren't 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.399 like me, like in a girl like me kind of 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:44.879 like I just mean, they were long haired, brunette women 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:48.159 who dressed in a specific sort of bow way wherein 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.880 they kind of like fancied themselves in Atlantis of sorts themselves. 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:54.760 It was it was verging on cosplay. But they were 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.520 all these like, you know, hot straight men that had 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.479 like gotten the tickets for her their girl all and 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:04.560 like it was date city and so yeah that how 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.240 was the experience of the concert, honey? I mean, what 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:08.800 can I say aside from She's still got it. It's 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.640 the twenty five year. This past summer was twenty five 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.760 years of Jagged Little Pills. So she performed pretty much 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:19.359 the whole album, not that she wouldn't anyway, because something 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:23.760 that I also learned empathetically empathetically rather because I was 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.920 so high, and I took the cue from Atlantis actually 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:28.560 because in the most recent album she has a song 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.399 about doing assets. So I was like, whatever, she'll probably 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:32.800 be on my level. And boy was she ever honey. 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:38.680 And I was like empathetically feeling not only like her 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:42.560 energy performing in front of me, but also like her 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.960 reconnecting to this music that she made five years ago, 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.280 and like how it had like the journey it had 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:53.840 taken her on, and how she related to it nowadays 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:57.240 what songs she connected to more like really obviously and 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.800 which one she was tired of was just like so 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:02.800 apparent to me and like what she put into them. 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:04.760 And I have a whole new favorite track list from 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:06.879 the album now after seeing her before, it was like 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:09.720 it was all like she her voice is still she's 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:15.679 got this really like iconic sort of yodeling thing. Um 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.000 that's still like perfectly intact. And she did this thing 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:23.680 where between numbers she would kind of like vocalize randomly 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:29.880 in this like kind of operatic ethereal like um yodaly 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:33.000 sort of way I can I can imagine it, like 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:36.960 I'm getting about it. That's those were the parts that 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:40.000 made me cry in the show. It's because I was like, 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:44.240 this is and she's just so gracious, She's so like 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.159 willing to accept her impact on the world. She realizes 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.760 the magnitude of jagged Little pill, and she she's like, 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:53.960 you know, like I look up to so many women 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:57.480 who are creators, who like become like resentful of the 0:21:57.520 --> 0:21:59.840 things that made them, Like take a Dina Menzel another 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:06.239 like she's she resents so deeply having been Alphaba and 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:11.159 sort of like she was not hitting the note when 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:16.320 she left the production on Broadway Girl, and then and 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:19.240 these assholes actually keep giving her these notes. She can't 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:21.800 hit two? Did you did you ever hear her hit 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:26.520 the note in the Frozen song once? She must have 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.720 gotten it exactly once, and they and she's lucky to 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:31.239 have been in the studio and they're like, all right, 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:34.520 we got it, the kluck on the road bitch. And 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:36.960 then they have her, they have her at the Oscars 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.119 like with all of the other else's from around the 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.840 world to we're all hitting the notes. Yes, they were, 0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:46.600 well that was that was frozen two oscars right, Or 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.280 then they have like remember the beginning of the pandemic, 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:51.680 there was the video of all of the Alphaba's doing 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:57.080 defined gravity, and like Adina very calculatedly comes in at 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:03.399 a lower stakes part of the end a limited but 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:07.840 then they have like forty different girls go wow, and 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:10.119 you're like, when you hear that so many times in 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:14.399 a row, you're like, is Adina the Atlantis of musical theater? No, 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:16.080 I don't think so, because of what he was just 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:20.679 talking about how she's she's she's not gracious like Atlantis is. 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:24.600 There's a grace to Atlantis that I think people that 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:28.360 a novice will often miss because she's so often characterized 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:31.399 as full of wrath and anger. And a lot of 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:33.240 that has to do with the track you ought to 0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:36.280 Know from Jagged Little Pill and a few more others. 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:39.199 There's you ought to Know, which is personal grief and 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.680 anger towards a person, and then there's right through you, 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:47.280 which is a broader anger towards like men. I'd say, 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:51.440 because I do think that her fury feels like righteous 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:55.320 and cosmic and biblical in a way that I think 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:57.439 is the reason why you ought to know is so 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:00.879 personal for so many people because it is so specific, 0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:07.159 yet it transcends her specific situation and becomes like universal rage. 0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:10.760 And I get what you're saying about her being this 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:15.840 like almost this like spiritual figure of most and and 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:19.520 and that was established from the jump with these tracks 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:22.600 like this and and it's like these tracks are running 0:24:22.640 --> 0:24:28.520 the full gamut. Jackie Little Pill is successful in providing 0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:33.600 a comprehensive spectrum of the experience of womanhood. And in 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:38.639 these tracks there is a comprehensive spectrum of all of 0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:41.679 the things that make her full of wrath. There's anger, 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:45.679 there's immense grief in the track too, you know, and 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:50.040