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Speaker 1: Hey guys, thanks for listening to Breaking Points with Crystal

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Speaker 1: and Sager. We're gonna be totally upfront with you. We

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Speaker 1: took a big risk going independent to make this work.

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Speaker 1: We need your support to beat the corporate media CNN, Fox, MSNBC.

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Speaker 1: They are ripping this country apart. They are making millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars doing it. To help support our mission of

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Speaker 1: making us all hate each other less and hate the

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Speaker 1: corrupt ruling class war, we need you to support the

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Speaker 1: show by becoming a Breaking Points Premium member today. You

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Speaker 1: get to watch and listen to the entire show ad

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Speaker 1: free and uncut, an hour early before everyone else. You

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Speaker 1: get to hear our reactions to each other's monologues, participate

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Speaker 1: and weekly ask me any things, and you don't need

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Speaker 1: to hear our annoying voices pitching you like I am

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Speaker 1: right now? So what are you waiting for? Go to

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Speaker 1: Crystalansager dot com to become a Premium member today, which

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Speaker 1: is available in the show notes. We love you guys,

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Speaker 1: enjoy the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Breaking Points with Crystal and Sager. We have an amazing

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Speaker 1: show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal, indeed

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Speaker 1: we do. So we're going to start by looking at

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Speaker 1: what exactly happened when Trump was kicked off of social media.

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Speaker 1: How did that impact his reach and his following. We're

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Speaker 1: going to look at some major drama within the ACLU,

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Speaker 1: basically abandoning their sort of core mission, something Glenn Greenwall's

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Speaker 1: been talking about for a long time. Some new really

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Speaker 1: pretty stunning details. There. An interview with Obama that is

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Speaker 1: quite interesting for the answers that he did not give

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Speaker 1: as much as the answers. He did give some news

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Speaker 1: on Jeff Bezos going to space. You and I will

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Speaker 1: do our breaking points moologus. We've got Ben Smith from

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Speaker 1: the New York Times to talk about all things media.

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Speaker 1: So great show planned for you. A couple things that

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Speaker 1: we forgot to mention yesterday. First of all, how do

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Speaker 1: you like our new desk match? Yeah, you liked these

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Speaker 1: little matt This is all about protecting Sager's beautiful and brilliant,

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Speaker 1: that's right, making sure we don't get any scratches on it.

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Speaker 1: Second of all, one thing we didn't mention yesterday was

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Speaker 1: the normal schedule. So the normal sort of show schedule

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Speaker 1: is going to be Monday Tuesday, Thursday. Sometimes that's going

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Speaker 1: to change one week. Where that is going to change

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Speaker 1: is actually next week, and we'll tell you stay tuned

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Speaker 1: for more on Thursday. Detail something that is very exciting though,

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Speaker 1: I think you guys will like, and we'll be posting

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Speaker 1: other content to the channel throughout the week. We're going

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Speaker 1: to be posting some clips from Crystal Conference, from the realignment,

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Speaker 1: so you guys can get a little cross pollination. There

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Speaker 1: some extra segments that we'll post over the weekends. And

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Speaker 1: if you're a premium subscriber, we're going to be doing

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Speaker 1: Ask Me Anythings every other week, that's right, so you

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Speaker 1: can submit your questions and we will respond to as

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Speaker 1: many of those as we possibly can. But with that,

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Speaker 1: Sager the New York Times taking a look at what

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Speaker 1: exactly happened from a sort of like data metrics standpoint

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Speaker 1: when Trump was taken off of Twitter and Facebook. I

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Speaker 1: think this is an incredibly important story. There is something

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Speaker 1: that in the last several months that's really coming to light,

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Speaker 1: which is that the original argument around deplatforming was deplatforming

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Speaker 1: doesn't work, You're just going to empower people. Actually we

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Speaker 1: have a scarier result. Deplatforming works, and it works really well.

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Speaker 1: As you saw in that graphic on the left, you

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Speaker 1: could actually see all of the different chatter that was

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Speaker 1: generated by a Trump tweet, a social media post. So

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Speaker 1: we're talking about oregans huge multi million dollars mart sorry,

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Speaker 1: multi million people worth of interactions that were on the

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Speaker 1: left and Eric Wrights element backup on the screen so

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Speaker 1: we can see that's right. Let's throw that back up

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Speaker 1: there because people need to understand this. You can see

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Speaker 1: there on the right side of the screen the number

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Speaker 1: of millions of interactions that were surrounding some of his posts.

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Speaker 1: Now here's what they found of the dozen written statements

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Speaker 1: and all these things that he issued from January ninth

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Speaker 1: until May fifth, which was the day the Facebook overside

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Speaker 1: went ahead and showed there before the ban, the social

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Speaker 1: media post with median engagement generated two hundred and seventy

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Speaker 1: two thousand likes and shares. After the ban, that dropped

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Speaker 1: to thirty six thousand likes and shares. Eleven of his

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Speaker 1: eighty nine statements after the ban are acted as many

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Speaker 1: likes as the medium posts before the band, but not more. So.

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Speaker 1: This is really interesting because what it's showing is you

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Speaker 1: can circumvent deep platforming on a case by case basis

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Speaker 1: eleven the United States if you're the former president, but

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Speaker 1: if in general about ninety percent of the time, you're

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Speaker 1: still totally and completely screwed. And I think there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of really troubling stuff here, which is that what

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Speaker 1: you actually see is that posts quoting Trump's February sixteen

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Speaker 1: statements dramatically lower. There's a whole bunch of other interesting

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Speaker 1: statistics in here, and what they show is is that

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Speaker 1: the ten most popular posts judged by likes, with Trump

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Speaker 1: before the social media bands and then after all fell dramatically.

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Speaker 1: Before the band Trump posts garnered two twenty two million

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Speaker 1: likes after the ban one point three million across Twitter

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Speaker 1: and facebooks. So we're talking about orders of magnitude. And this,

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Speaker 1: again is the president of the United States who had

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Speaker 1: to shut down his blow or the former president who

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Speaker 1: had to shut dow on his blog because it was

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Speaker 1: getting such limited numbers of engagement. I think this is

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Speaker 1: a really terrifying story, though, Crystal, because what it does

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Speaker 1: show is and like we said, look, it's kind of nice,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's not around the media's reporting on him

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Speaker 1: slightly less, even though they try to make it happen

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Speaker 1: every once in a while, but that chart and the

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Speaker 1: numbers starkly show that essentially two or three companies in

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Speaker 1: America can make sure whether it can decide whether you

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Speaker 1: have a voice or not. That's just fundamentally anti democratic

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Speaker 1: to me. There was a lot that was really interesting

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Speaker 1: about this article. First of all, if we could throw

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Speaker 1: that graphic up one more time on the screen, because

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Speaker 1: I think that chart is so important. To look at

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Speaker 1: the world on the right where there's like these little

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Speaker 1: bubbles and he pops up now and again, and then

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Speaker 1: he goes away like, I'm not gonna lie. That world's

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Speaker 1: really nice, right, It's so much calmer. There's a little

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Speaker 1: more like substance you can get to. Everything's just not

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Speaker 1: instantly stupid and polarized and obnoxious all the way across

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Speaker 1: the board. But as you're saying, Zoba or even though

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Speaker 1: on this particular instance, yeah, it's nice that he's out

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Speaker 1: there a lot less, the consequences and the implications of

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Speaker 1: this for everyone else are really really significant, because if

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Speaker 1: you think Donald Trump and the right wingers that maybe

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Speaker 1: you don't like are the only ones who are going

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Speaker 1: to be subject to this deplatforming, you're wrong, and we've

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Speaker 1: already seen that you're wrong, and we have experience from you,

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Speaker 1: even at the Hill with Rising. Before we put it

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Speaker 1: on YouTube, no one knew it even existed the fact

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Speaker 1: that it was on YouTube and enabled people to see

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Speaker 1: that's the only thing that gave it power. I saw

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Speaker 1: the same thing at MSNBC Keith Olberman, who was like

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Speaker 1: the biggest guy in cable news. He leaves, is fired,

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Speaker 1: whatever happens with him at MSNBC, goes to current, still

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Speaker 1: on cable news, but no longer on, vanishes disappears. So yes,

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Speaker 1: it does actually work, and that's exactly what's scary. The

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Speaker 1: other thing that was funny about this article, though, is

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Speaker 1: even though you can see with your own eyes how

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Speaker 1: dramatically attention fell off of all of his posts, and

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Speaker 1: they even crunch the data for you to be able

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Speaker 1: to like not only see that, but know the specific numbers,

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Speaker 1: they still tried to frame the whole article around like,

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Speaker 1: but he's still it's still working, he's still getting his message,

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Speaker 1: still has a voice, and like he's the former president,

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Speaker 1: and they went out of his way to be like

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Speaker 1: eleven of his eighty nine statements got a lot of

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Speaker 1: likes it's like wildly different than what it was before.

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Speaker 1: So the framing of it was really funny and really

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Speaker 1: interesting to me. The other thing that they dug into, though,

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Speaker 1: which I also thought was kind of fascinating, is they

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Speaker 1: looked at different kinds of statements that he made. So

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Speaker 1: statements that he made basically attacking democrats, those only got shared.

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Speaker 1: And this is in the post ban era, those only

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Speaker 1: got shared by right wing voices, right wing news sides

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Speaker 1: putting Fox News, right wing personalities, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: The ones that he made attacking fellow Republicans, those would

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Speaker 1: be shared by the right and by more democratic leaning

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Speaker 1: or left leaning outlets. And I just found this particular

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Speaker 1: paragraph amusing. They say, the top shares on the right

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Speaker 1: of that type of content, and according to the Global

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Speaker 1: Disinformation Index analysis included Fox and Friends at Cable News

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Speaker 1: show and the right ling publication Washington Examiner. On the left,

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Speaker 1: the top sharers included the popular Facebook page Stand with

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Speaker 1: Mueller and the CNN journalist Jim Acosta. So it tells

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Speaker 1: you a lot about who's still obsessed with Trump boomers era. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're called boomers, and Jim Acosta stam hit Muller. The

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Speaker 1: other fascinating part about this, there's a in geopolitical thing

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Speaker 1: that comes into this, which is actually recently, Nigeria banned

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Speaker 1: Twitter after President Bujari's tweet was deleted by the company.

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Speaker 1: And what Twitter came out and said was that this

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Speaker 1: was an attack on human rights. And this is something obviously,

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Speaker 1: look a lot of Magamedia. They're like Twitter's bias, own

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Speaker 1: admission is violating Trump's human rights. Let's take Trump out

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Speaker 1: of it, and let's look at this in the very abstract,

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Speaker 1: which is that they recognize the power of their platform

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Speaker 1: in a place like Nigeria and in a place where

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Speaker 1: circumventing organs of power are being able to have free discourse,

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Speaker 1: and all that is important. But then when you lay

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Speaker 1: it all out so starkly, like in the New York

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Speaker 1: Times story, and you just see how much his engagement

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Speaker 1: has completely been dropped. This is the former president. What

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Speaker 1: are they gonna If you're an average person, You're done.

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Speaker 1: There's a guy named Paul Scalis who I'm a big

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Speaker 1: fan of. Something that he has pointed out in his newsletter,

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Speaker 1: the Lindy Newsletter is Stefan Molinu, And I'm not a

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Speaker 1: big Stefan Malony fan or any of this thing. But

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Speaker 1: from the starkness of he was getting hundreds of thousands

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Speaker 1: of views on Twitter and Facebook and stuff. Now on

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Speaker 1: his private whatever, we're talking like two thousand. I mean

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Speaker 1: we're like too, I mean we're orders of magnitude, absolute exponents,

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Speaker 1: down level numbers. And I think that you put all

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Speaker 1: of that together, it's a scary situation. These people have

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Speaker 1: a lot of power. Trump actually talked a little bit

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Speaker 1: about this yesterday on Fox. Let's take a listen to

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Speaker 1: what he said. You know, they allowed dictators to say

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Speaker 1: death to America. That's okay. To Israel, that's okay. But

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Speaker 1: with me, they take me off because they are radical left,

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Speaker 1: crazy people and they're destroying our country and they don't

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Speaker 1: want to hear a stane voice. That's why they And

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Speaker 1: it's a voice that has and you know, I was

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Speaker 1: one of the top by far on Twitter and top

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Speaker 1: on and Zuckerberg said top on Facebook, and you know

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Speaker 1: on Instagram too, and you ed it all up. It's

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Speaker 1: it's hundreds. It's like, uh, I don't know, I had

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Speaker 1: I think close to two hundred million people, they say,

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Speaker 1: and they take that off. You so once again, look

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Speaker 1: like his musings and all that aside, there is a

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Speaker 1: level of truth there. The lack of consistent enforcement and

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Speaker 1: of standards around stuff, you know soft first Trump got tagged,

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Speaker 1: then they're like, oh, well, we got to tag a

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Speaker 1: few Chinese social media and then people were like, wait,

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Speaker 1: but then you should also probably tag like all these

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Speaker 1: other world leaders. And then the world leaders themselves, like Buhari,

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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, in America, you can't just ban Twitter.

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Speaker 1: Well out there, they're like, no, you're done completely. Russia

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Speaker 1: came out, even Putin and all these strong men came

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Speaker 1: out and they're like, if these people think you can

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Speaker 1: ban my account, They're like, you have another thing coming.

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Speaker 1: Angola Merkel spoke out against Trump getting banned. I think

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Speaker 1: it was a catastrophic decision at the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: I understand Bernie House spoke out again, his sector spoke

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Speaker 1: because he's not an idiot too. How much should Bernie

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Speaker 1: raise for his campaign? Two hundred million dollars? I think

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Speaker 1: it was two hundred and fifty million if I remember

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Speaker 1: covering it at the time. Vast majority of that came

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Speaker 1: from email marketing and from Facebook and from Twitter AOC

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Speaker 1: it raises the most amount of money in all of Congress.

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Speaker 1: She's never dialed for a dollar once in her entire life.

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Speaker 1: That is the power of Facebook. Is AOC every gonna

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Speaker 1: get taken off Facebook. No, she's far too identitarian. But

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Speaker 1: what about the next one? What about Anina Turner? What

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Speaker 1: about the next generation of a progressive that is, somebody

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Speaker 1: who is one hundred percent reliant on the Internet in

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Speaker 1: order to fuel small dollar donations. I could easily see

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Speaker 1: Ilhan or Rashida t Lee getting taken down because they have,

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Speaker 1: you know, views on Israel that are not considered acceptable.

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Speaker 1: And that is the one thing like when I listen

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Speaker 1: to Trump. On the one hand, yeah, he's got a point, obviously,

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Speaker 1: I think the censorship and like the cheering of censorship

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Speaker 1: from quote unquote liberals, which should be the opposite of

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Speaker 1: what a actual liberal values set would look like, I

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Speaker 1: find outrageous. I find it incredibly troubling. I think it's

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Speaker 1: this is like an essential question in terms of democracy.

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Speaker 1: But also conservatives only see this when it happens to them.

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Speaker 1: So even he says this thing about like you can

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Speaker 1: say death to Israel, Israel Works has a program where

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Speaker 1: they work directly with Facebook to identify people that they

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Speaker 1: find to be problematic. There's no corresponding program for Palestinians,

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Speaker 1: and you know when there's extremest views. So we covered

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Speaker 1: and we talked about on rising the number of Palestinian

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Speaker 1: journalists and activists who were targeted and taken off of

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Speaker 1: social media. So this is just this is that's another

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Speaker 1: issue that Trump has basically ruined and looks for cancel

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Speaker 1: culture for people who he doesn't like. This was the

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Speaker 1: Mike Lindell famously the MyPillow dude when he starts his

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Speaker 1: free speech platform and he's like, but there's not going

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Speaker 1: to be any cursing or porno or taking the Lord's

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Speaker 1: name in vain. They want the cancel culture to be

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Speaker 1: dictated by them. That's their beef. It's not that they

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Speaker 1: actually have a principle here. Now that doesn't let liberals

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Speaker 1: off the hook for like the fact that they abandon

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Speaker 1: any principles in this fight either. But he ruins all

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Speaker 1: of these conversations because also everybody's Trump derangement syndrome gets triggered.

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Speaker 1: And if he's saying this, we're going to be over

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Speaker 1: here saying no, we're for more censorship. We want Facebook

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Speaker 1: and Twitter to have more power. We want them to

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Speaker 1: ban more people. We want them to ban you for life.

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Speaker 1: This happened yesterday. Actually, I'm glad you reminded me. I

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Speaker 1: want to speak out on this. Rebecca Jones, who I

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Speaker 1: did a monologue about over on rising Total Charlatan, absolutely

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Speaker 1: lied about her role. She was some supposed whistleblower on

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Speaker 1: rohnd de Santis all of that. Yeah, okay, out of

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Speaker 1: the way, can't stand her. Did a takedown. You can

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Speaker 1: go and watch that. That being said, she was suspended

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Speaker 1: from Twitter yesterday, and Ron DeSantis actually put out a

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Speaker 1: statement saying that this is a long overdue action and

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Governor, but that's not what we're all about here. Look,

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Speaker 1: and he's been out front. He's been out front on

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Speaker 1: deep platforming. Wow. Now, look, according to Twitter, she was

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Speaker 1: creating bought accounts in order to defend herself, which is

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Speaker 1: extremely cringe behavior. All of that being said, yes, maybe

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Speaker 1: it's a violation of the terms of service, but he

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Speaker 1: put out a statement celebrating it. I don't celebrate her

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Speaker 1: getting taken off social media. She had a large platform.

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Speaker 1: She actually targeted me personally, talking and disparaging me all

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Speaker 1: of that. It's all good. It's all in the game.

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Speaker 1: I'm a big boy. Like I did a segment. I

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Speaker 1: will have to live with her criticism of that. I'm

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Speaker 1: totally fine with that. So I'm out here and I

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Speaker 1: want to be absolutely one hundred percent on the record.

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Speaker 1: I'm one hundred percent against her to getting taken off

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Speaker 1: of Twitter. I think she should be reinstated and she

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Speaker 1: should be allowed to say her you know, ridiculous musings

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Speaker 1: as much as she wants, because it's a free country.

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Speaker 1: And this is a problem with the hypocrisy of it.

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Speaker 1: Glenn pointed that out, which is Governor DeSantis is celebrating

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Speaker 1: her being taken off of Twitter, and that's wrong. It's

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Speaker 1: just totally wrong. And it just goes to where if

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Speaker 1: you're gonna champion people being taken off when you don't disagree,

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Speaker 1: when you disagree with them, and then you know, get

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Speaker 1: really upset one of the people you agree with are

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Speaker 1: taken off, then it just becomes a hellescape where everybody's

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Speaker 1: driving all the way down to the bottom side. That's

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Speaker 1: just about power out there, it's not about any kind

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Speaker 1: of principle, and that's where most of these people are

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Speaker 1: acting from the liberals are acting from that like, because look,

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Speaker 1: it worked, it has definitely defanged Donald Trump. Well before

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Speaker 1: reconed with you said, and I think that this might

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Speaker 1: be true, that if he remains kicked off of Facebook,

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Speaker 1: he may not run again. Like that is a tremendous

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Speaker 1: amount of power. But you see the same exact games

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Speaker 1: being played on the right. That's a stunning is in

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Speaker 1: I missed that from DeSantis because he was also remember

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Speaker 1: he was the one who uh dep platform behind that

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Speaker 1: law that you're not allowed to deplat in Florida. You're

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Speaker 1: not allowed to de platform any politician, and there's fines

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Speaker 1: and all this stuff. Trying to plant his flag in

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Speaker 1: the ground for if there is a Republican primary absent

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Speaker 1: Trump or even possibly posturing to be Trump's VP, something

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Speaker 1: that Trump this week didn't rule out. And now you

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Speaker 1: see not only did he not Usually what they do

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Speaker 1: is they just stay silent on the examples that don't

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Speaker 1: benefit them. They don't actively celebrate it. The fact that

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Speaker 1: he actively affirmatively went out and celebrated it, that's really something.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, we've got this thing going on

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Speaker 1: with the ACLU actually dovetails quite nicely yes, entire time,

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Speaker 1: kind of a continuation of the whole discussion. So the

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Speaker 1: pre eminent organization that is supposed to be fighting for

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Speaker 1: free speech even and maybe even especially when you wildly

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Speaker 1: not just disagree, but find that speech to be offensive.

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Speaker 1: The ACLU, which became famous for, among other things, defending

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Speaker 1: the rights of the KKK to protest and march in

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Speaker 1: the streets and all of those things. They're essentially, according

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Speaker 1: to a new reporting for The New York Times, we

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Speaker 1: can throw this tear sheet up on the screen. There

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Speaker 1: is a major internal battle right now over whether the

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Speaker 1: ACLU is going to continue in that vein. They start

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Speaker 1: with this anecdote of famous professor, longtime lawyer David Goldberger.

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Speaker 1: They're having a luncheon to celebrate him, and he's listening

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Speaker 1: to the speeches at this luncheon, and you can see

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Speaker 1: the quotes up there on the screen. He says, I

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Speaker 1: got the sense it was more important for the ACLS

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Speaker 1: you staff, to identify with clients and progressive causes than

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Speaker 1: to protect free speech. They go through this is wild

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Speaker 1: to me in their annual reports for several years in

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Speaker 1: a row, from twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen, the words

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Speaker 1: First Amendment and free speech cannot be found in the

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Speaker 1: ACLU's own annual report. On the other hand, there were

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Speaker 1: many mess and many words about Donald Trump and their leader,

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Speaker 1: their role as leaders in the resistance about Trump. That's

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Speaker 1: what their annual report was all about. And apparently where

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Speaker 1: a lot of this sort of started to fall apart

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Speaker 1: is after Charlottesville, when the ACLU took the side of

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Speaker 1: the protesters who wanted to march there. Of course that

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Speaker 1: devolves into a totally disastrous, racist monstrosity. Heather Hair is

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Speaker 1: murdered by one of the white supremacists who was there.

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Speaker 1: That's not the fault of the ACLU, that's the fault

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Speaker 1: of law enforcement, and like the total mess that that

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Speaker 1: devolved into, not to mention, of course, the people who

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Speaker 1: perpetrated those acts. But it was after that that the

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Speaker 1: mission of the organization really started to change. At the

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Speaker 1: same time, they were flooded with cash in the Trump

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Speaker 1: era because they positioned themselves as taking this leading role

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Speaker 1: in the resistance against Trump, and so as they're hiring

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Speaker 1: and bringing on new people, they didn't bring on a

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Speaker 1: one single new lawyer focused on First Amendment and free speech,

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Speaker 1: but they brought up a bunch of activists who are

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Speaker 1: much more committed to these different progressive causes, progressive causes

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Speaker 1: which by and large I support, but are sometimes in

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Speaker 1: conflict with this central goal of free speech. And they

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Speaker 1: say blatantly that now they want to consider whose groups,

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Speaker 1: whether they're allies, how their allies in the progressive movement

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Speaker 1: are going to be impacted by the cases that they

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Speaker 1: take up. Again, this is the polar opposite of the

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Speaker 1: mission of this organization for generations, where it didn't matter

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Speaker 1: whether it was a liberal cause, and they defended many liberal, progressive,

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Speaker 1: leftist causes, including you know, pushing back when people bring

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Speaker 1: smeared as communist sympathizers and all of that. That's really

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Speaker 1: how they That's right. They started off World War One

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Speaker 1: with people who were conscientious objectors like all of that,

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Speaker 1: scular objectors in public schools. But what gave them so

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Speaker 1: much credibility is that they would also defend the rights

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Speaker 1: of people with whom they vehemently disagreed, and that missions

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Speaker 1: seems to be completely fallen by the wayside, and it's

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Speaker 1: post Trump era. In the words of Noam Chomsky, if

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Speaker 1: you're not for free speech with the for people that

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Speaker 1: you despise, then you're not for free school. That's right.

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Speaker 1: And look, Dennis Parker, who's quoted in this story, who

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Speaker 1: was the head of the racial Justice program at the ACLU,

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Speaker 1: said this quote, First Amendment protections are disproportionately enjoyed by

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Speaker 1: people of power and privilege. As in the First Amendment

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Speaker 1: protections are themselves not to be venerated by the ACLU

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Speaker 1: in this position there. I think that's absolutely stunning. And

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Speaker 1: let me include though, the pushback that's included in this

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Speaker 1: article is, Hey, everything that Black Lives Matter did was

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Speaker 1: enabled by the First Amendment. Yeah, file it under no

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Speaker 1: you know what comes next. And look, all of this

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Speaker 1: is just absolutely ridiculous, and it comes down to a

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Speaker 1: single thing Trump. If you want to talk about Trump derangement,

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Speaker 1: it's the ACLU. What happened. The ACLU, according to this

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Speaker 1: raised three hundred million dollars on Trump. The ACLU budget tripled,

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Speaker 1: and its core of lawyers doubled. They actually have the

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Speaker 1: same number of lawyers who specialize in free speech though

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Speaker 1: as a decade ago. So all the new lawyers, all

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Speaker 1: the new funding has to go to perpetrating all of

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Speaker 1: the new recurring donations that are coming into them. I

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Speaker 1: saw this firsthand. I remember it very clearly. As the

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Speaker 1: ACLU continued to side with the Trump against the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration time after time after time, they fell into the

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Speaker 1: MSNBC syndrome of the fact that their entire base are

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Speaker 1: anti Trump people and they are not going to tolerate

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Speaker 1: them standing up for people like at Charlottesville. Can't stand

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Speaker 1: people in Charlottesville can stand white supremacists there. Many of

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Speaker 1: them are American citizens and enjoy First Amendment rights. Wish

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Speaker 1: it was in the case, so be it. It's probably

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Speaker 1: better off that way. And this is the thing that

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Speaker 1: these people don't seem to understand. We've seen this over

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Speaker 1: and over again, which is that now the ACLU cannot

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Speaker 1: even put itself in a situation where it can even

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Speaker 1: do like a token case of trying to stand up

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Speaker 1: for free speech. Another thing that I think his name

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Speaker 1: is Gerald Powell, the author of the story Great Great

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Speaker 1: New Yorkist Journalists. It's a phenomenal piece. It's lengthy and

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Speaker 1: you should read all. He points out that in terms

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Speaker 1: of campuses, they refuse to insert themselves in many cases

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Speaker 1: on behalf of students. This is the same organization which

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties stood up for students who were

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Speaker 1: protesting against Vietnam. These are the same thing that defended

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Speaker 1: high school students. They're a right to be secular. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can go so many famous cases which pave the way,

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Speaker 1: I think, frankly, for you and I to be able

428
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 1: to exist in modern public society. And look, I grew

429
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 1: I grew up in a town where George hw Bush's

430
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 1: library was. It wasn't so fun speaking out against the

431
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 1: Iraq War. And I bet you thirty years prior, I

432
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 1: would have been silenced. And I said wherever I dan wanted,

433
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: much to the chagrin of a lot of people. And

434
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 1: it's because of people like the ACLU, who paved the

435
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 1: way for high school students' rights all from the very

436
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 1: beginning in terms of their free speech protections. All of

437
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,479
Speaker 1: that has been completely a by this organization in favor

438
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 1: of an agenda where they say, well, you can't protect

439
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: translves or black lives with First Amendment protections because you

440
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 1: have to be able to silence the violent voices against them.

441
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: That's just not the case. And it actually flies again

442
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: in the face of every modern social justice movement in

443
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: American history in that we had violent, often terrible debates,

444
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: and some of them actually devolved into actual violence. But

445
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: ultimately what happened here and I think it was better

446
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: off because we had more free speech in this country.

447
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: Ryan Grim made an interesting point, which is that, look,

448
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 1: you can imagine people holding the views of the people

449
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: who have come to work at the ACLU and are

450
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: trying to change what free speech means and who it

451
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 1: gets to benefit from it and who doesn't. But it's

452
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: pretty hard to imagine people who hold those views going

453
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: and working at the ACLU, Like, go work at a

454
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 1: progressive organization that's just going to back your view and

455
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: that has that mission like this is the anathema to

456
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: what the ACLU has always bedrock been about. And they

457
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: do talk in the article about you know, there's been

458
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: other times of tension within the organization where it's like, ah,

459
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: should we really be defending the KKK here, But they've

460
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 1: done it time and time again. And there's an anecdote

461
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: at the end of the article kind of the kicker

462
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: of the article that I think is really interesting and

463
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 1: really revealing. They talk about New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani

464
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: was trying to block the KKK from rallying downtown back

465
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine, and the Klan was anathema to

466
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: mister Siegel, who was leading the New York chapter at

467
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: that time. But he fought like a cornered cat, they say,

468
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: for the clan's First Amendment rights. Did I give anyone

469
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 1: else a veto? No way, he said, I would have

470
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: compromised my integrity. But listener who joined him in fighting

471
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 1: for the rights of the KKK to march and protest

472
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: in New York City. He drew support from the black

473
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: publisher of the Aterdam News and from Reverend Al Sharpton,

474
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: who filed suit in support of the NYCLU, that's the

475
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 1: ACLU in New York. Mister Siegel recalled receiving a standing

476
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: ovation from a black audience. He recounts a woman came

477
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: up and said, you did the right thing. If Juliani

478
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: could shut down the Klan, he would do it to us. Course.

479
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: That's the point. That's the point right there is if

480
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: you have a principle, you have to apply it across

481
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: the board. It's just what we were just saying about

482
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: Trump and the right and Ron Santas and all of

483
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: that same crap applies to liberals and to ACLU, and

484
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: it's a tremendous loss. I mean, this is an organization

485
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: I have respected for so long and that I think

486
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: has done some of the most at times wildly unpopular

487
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: and truly courageous, bedrock foundational work in American society. And

488
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: if they're pulling back from that, which it appears from

489
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: this article that they very much are, we need either

490
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: to reclaim the ACLU or we need another organization that

491
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: is actually going to support First Amendment rights and free

492
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 1: speech across the board for everyone. Like you said, I mean,

493
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 1: it means a lot. I remember Bushlide had a very

494
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: cringe button that I would wear which said Bushlide people died,

495
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: which true, by the way, but did not go by

496
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: that cringe button did not go over so well in

497
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: College Station, Texas, home to the Bush family and more,

498
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: and got into a vehement argument, and I remember actually

499
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: a teacher even saying, hey, he can say whatever he

500
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: wants and it's because of people like the ACLU. And

501
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: that means a lot for people who were in college,

502
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: especially at times of immense national tension. This was like

503
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, where you're not supposed to say

504
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: a single thing right, and like it's this was conflated

505
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: with speaking out against the troops. This stuff really matters,

506
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: and whenever you abandon it, you are losing so much

507
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: in untold how many opinions are going unvoiced or like,

508
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: how many people are not saying what they really believe,

509
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: and then all that leads to is just a total

510
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: and complete catastrophe. Yeah indeed. Hey guys, So remember how

511
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: we told you how awesome premium membership was. Well, here

512
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: I am again to remind you that becoming a premium

513
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 1: member means you don't have to listen to our constant

514
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: please for you to subscribe. So what are you waiting for?

515
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: Become a premium member today by going to Crystalansager dot com,

516
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: which you can click on in the show notes. We

517
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: wanted to get to very interesting interview you found this.

518
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,959
Speaker 1: This is great for ock Obama. So President Obama sits

519
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: for an interview with Jewish Insider sort of. It was

520
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: one of these deals which I always think is kind

521
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 1: of bullshit, where they email the questions oh yes, and

522
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 1: then you respond totally fake because obviously someone else can

523
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: draft your responses. You have time to think about it

524
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: and parse and come up with the most problem whatever

525
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: in response. But look, if the former president wanted to

526
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: give me an email interview, would I accept it? Probably? Okay,

527
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 1: it's better than Thatough. So he does this bullshit email

528
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: interview with the Jewish Insider, and we could throw this

529
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: tear sheet up on the screen. He doesn't answer a

530
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 1: single question about Israel or Iran. So basically the two

531
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: biggest most significant issues in the Middle East right now,

532
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: and the interviews largely focused on Middle East and foreign

533
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: policy and some on him and his relationship with the

534
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: Jewish community, he just completely does not respond whatsoever. And

535
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: so here are a few of here's what they say.

536
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: They pointed this out in the interview too. They say

537
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: how in a recent interview with Jewish Insider, his first

538
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: with the Jewish publication since leaving office in twenty seventeen,

539
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: Obama shied away from discussing tensions with that community. In

540
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: more detail, the former president avoided every question touching on

541
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: Israel and the Middle East that we post to him.

542
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: Of the thirteen questions sent to the former president listed

543
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: below in full, he provided answers to just five, focusing

544
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: on the history of Black Jewish relations, the Capital siege

545
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: the state of American politics, and the rise of anti

546
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: Semitism among their topics. Here's a few of the questions

547
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: that he did not answer. They asked him, in your view,

548
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: what did the pro Israel community and they name chech

549
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: Apac in particular, get right and what did it get

550
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: wrong during your time in office? No response. They also

551
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: ask him on Middle East issues, did you feel less

552
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: inhibited in your second term? Does that partially explain the

553
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: US decision in twenty sixteen to abstain on UN Security

554
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: Council Resolution twenty three thirty four condemning Israeli settlement construction?

555
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: Important question? No answer. Ask There was a question about, hey,

556
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: what's going on with Arab countries including the UAE, Bahrain,

557
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: Morocco and Sudan normalizing ties with Israel? What do you

558
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: think is behind that? No answer there? And also do

559
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: you feel as if there's any hope for Ron's pro

560
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: democracy demonstrators? No answer there either. Remember two. There are

561
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: a number of other questions about JCPOA zero response on

562
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: what were really the most substantive questions here and again

563
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: in an interview with a Jewish publication. After what we

564
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: all just witnessed, the happening in Israel and Gaza. The

565
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: only time he even says the word Israel is he's

566
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: talking about something that happened as the Israeli embassy. That's it.

567
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: A speech that he gave. That's the whole thing. I mean,

568
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: what incredible cowardice. Look, this is who he is and

569
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: this is Matt Stoler coined this around Obama, and I

570
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: believe this. He's the Instagram president, which is that the

571
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: moment he leaves office, he decides he needs to create

572
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: him and Michelle, not just his former presidents, in two

573
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: lifestyle brands, becoming literally had stadium tours. Okay, that was

574
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: one of the best selling books in the whole country.

575
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: I don't begrudge the Obamas for their success, but what

576
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: it is is that they created themselves into pop culture

577
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: figure icons. The Netflix series, having their own production houses,

578
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: sixty million dollar book contract, all of that is created

579
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: in an image where they can't actually be offensive. They've

580
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: actually made they've made it the ultimate jump. Or if

581
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: you want to make real money in this country, never

582
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: talk about politics. You need to go and become some

583
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: anadyne culture figure. Things like that. Again, that's fine, it's

584
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: all good, you know, like Kayla Swift, like these people

585
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: are post political in that everybody across the aisle likes them.

586
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: Obama found out the hard way it's actually bad for

587
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: business to be political. So what did they do? Well?

588
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: He goes and starts hanging out with Richard Branson. He goes,

589
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: that's his very first vacation is with a bunch of

590
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,479
Speaker 1: billionaires and celebrities on a private island in the Virgin Islands.

591
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: Once again, look like, congrats, man, you really did make

592
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: it like. Obama's life story is actually inspirational. I've been

593
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: to the part of Hawaii where he grew up. But

594
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: the real fascinating thing to me is that the more

595
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: he has to protect now his hundreds of millions of

596
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: dollars in interests, the more we reveal himself for who

597
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: he really is. He's not going to touch anything controversial

598
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: in this and I actually recently saw this. Obama is

599
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,719
Speaker 1: imploring the Obama Foundation the business community in Chicago in

600
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: order to speak up against environmental activist in order to

601
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: build his new presidential library. It literally literally saying Obama

602
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: implores corporate leaders and business community to head back to

603
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: head against environmental activists who have concerns about the Obama

604
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: Foundation and the new Obama Presidential Library. Can you think

605
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: of anything, I mean that's perfect, That's like the story

606
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: of his entire His whole president was like punching left

607
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: and you know, demonstrating his moderate conservative bona fides and

608
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: avoiding taking stands on anything controversial as much as he

609
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: possibly could. And you know what really makes me mad

610
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: about this is that former President Obama really does occupy

611
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: a very unique place in American history by dint of

612
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: his trailblazing status and the trust and rapport that he

613
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: has with a very broad swath of the American public

614
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: at this point that actually goes beyond just the hardcore

615
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: Democratic base. He is in a position to be an

616
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: incredible moral leader at a moment in time that is

617
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: desperately crying out for people to be courageous moral leaders.

618
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: Of course, he's a bandaged It's completely obvious here. You

619
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: can't say a word about Israel during this time when

620
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: we just saw the mass of what happened in that country,

621
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: and just like the outrageous policies and institutionalists apartheime, you

622
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: can't say one thing about Palestinian lives. Nothing, I mean

623
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: it's to me, it's an unconscionable level of complete cowardice.

624
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: You're already a wealthy man, you're already extraordinarily popular, you're

625
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,959
Speaker 1: already extraordinarily powerful. What are you protecting? Exactly? That, to

626
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: me is just what's so sad here? I do want

627
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: to give him credit on one answer though, that I

628
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: thought was a little bit courageous given the present mode.

629
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: It shouldn't be, but it is a little bit courageous

630
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: given the present moment, and actually again fits with the

631
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: other things we were talking about, the free speech concerns

632
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: that we've been talking about in this show. He gets

633
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: asked about safeguarding the First Amendment, and they say, look,

634
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: the right, for its part, supports bakers who refuse to

635
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: make wedding cakes for gay couples, but then they draw

636
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: the line at boycotts of Israel to left these things

637
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: the other way around. Where do you land on this dynamic?

638
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: What role, if any, should the state play and keeping

639
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: the marketplace free of bigotry? And how can it do

640
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: so while safeguarding First Amendment rights? Typical Obama, He's got

641
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 1: a long wind up about, Oh, I see they're concerned,

642
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: I'm a constitutional law professor is the first thing he says, right, yeah,

643
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: we got it. We know, we all got it. Okay,

644
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: everyone knows. But he comes down in the right place.

645
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: He says, there are obviously limits to free speech, including

646
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: when I directly threaten someone else, and I think the

647
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: state has a role to play in keeping people safe.

648
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: But beyond that, I believe the purpose of free speech

649
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 1: is to make sure that we are forced to use

650
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,959
Speaker 1: argument and reason and words in making our democracy work.

651
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: You don't have to be fearful of somebody spouting bad ideas,

652
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: just don't argue them, make the case as to why

653
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: they're wrong, win over adherents. That's how things work in

654
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: a democracy. So I do want to give him a

655
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: little bit credit for what I thought was as strong

656
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: answer to that is sure, you know, it's like great,

657
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: thank you, President Obama. Better than nothing. It's like, you know,

658
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: this was one of the Would it have surprised you

659
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: though if you took the opposite view, No, absolutely not. Yeah,

660
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: but I mean, and I bet you that Michelle and

661
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: all the other people around him were pressuring him otherwise.

662
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: This is the thing. He was one of the greatest

663
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 1: politicians of the age. People get mad when I say

664
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: that sorry is one of the best public speakers ever

665
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: on record in modern American politics. Came in two thousand

666
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: and eight, could have been probably one of the biggest

667
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: turning points in modern American history if he had taken

668
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 1: his presidency in another way, actually ended the wars in Iraq,

669
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, fulfilled that mission. Remember how many people came

670
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: out and voted for Obama. It was crazy, like he

671
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: won one of the huge majority white working class voters.

672
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: Everybody came in for Obama. It was one of those

673
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: things where within what a year it was over and

674
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: it led to his own presidential downfall in terms of

675
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,720
Speaker 1: the Tea Party backlash and more. And it was because

676
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: of this. I don't know what else to call it.

677
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say, Like it's just a

678
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: very there's a huge level of cowardice whenever it comes

679
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: to his inability in order to engage. And what he's

680
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: decided his legacy will be is identitarian, which is that

681
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: the first line Peter Baker wrote this, the first line

682
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 1: of his obituary, was written the day of his election,

683
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: first black president. It could have been much longer, right,

684
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: it could have been five more sentences around changing the country,

685
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: ending the war and all that. He decided to stick

686
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: with that and turn himself into a lifestyle brand. It's

687
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: actually more of a tragedy than it is anything else.

688
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: He's bought into, basically the brand of the totally content

689
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: free version of identity politics. That's like Jamie diamondkneeling in

690
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 1: support of Black Lives Matter in front of the bank vault.

691
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: That's a great Yeah, that's that's what can pelosis, can

692
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: can take loth That's that's what he's just because look,

693
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: it's it's something that his billionaire buddies are comfortable with.

694
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: It doesn't challenge them whatsoever, doesn't challenge you know, him

695
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: and his family and their position whatsoever. So that's what

696
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: he's leaned into. Your point is really important. I think

697
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: about how when he was elected, and it wasn't just

698
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: that he was elected, Democrats win in a landslide, right,

699
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 1: they come sweeping off the same super majority in congresspers

700
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: you can't even wrap your head around that at this point,

701
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 1: large majority in the House, right, all the levers of power,

702
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: and you're at this moment of total crisis and collapse.

703
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: And when what I talked about yesterday in my monologue

704
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: was this new research about twenty one different Western democracies

705
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: from Thomas Pacatti and how they've failed to address inequality,

706
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: even as like where is the class consciousness? Where is

707
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 1: the class war? As inequality mounts and mounts and mounts.

708
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: He points to two exceptions to that failure to combat inequality,

709
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: and the fact that elites are increasingly consolidating educational elites,

710
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: in particular in left of center parties, and that's Ireland

711
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: and Portugal. And what was the main factor that led

712
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: to those countries diverging and maintaining a class oriented politics.

713
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: It was the fact that they had, in the wake

714
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: of the financial crisis, left parties that seized the mantle

715
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: of class politics and offered policies that were going to

716
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 1: help everyone in the population, the broad working class. Now, look,

717
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: America is very unique. It's very distinct from every other

718
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 1: country on the planet, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

719
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: But that was the moment right there, in the crash

720
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: and immediately thereafter to chart a different course for this country,

721
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: to change things, to use the crisis in the way

722
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: that Rama Manuel very like in a very sort of

723
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 1: like you know, it's an uncomfortable thing to say, but yeah,

724
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: never let a good crisis go to aways. They had

725
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: the moment right then to remake the direction that America

726
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: is going to offer people something that actually made sense,

727
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: that gave them hope for the future, that gave them

728
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: a substantive vision they could buy into instead of the

729
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: like reactionary culture were bullshit hell that we're living through

730
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: now and Neiden do I mean, there's just and look,

731
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: he's not like the worst president in history or anything

732
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: like that, but it was such a critical moment. Yeah,

733
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: and he's such an intelligent person that he had the

734
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: ability to see the turning point, He had the ability

735
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: to see where things needed to go and completely failed

736
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: and continues to just be a profile and moral cowardice. Yah.

737
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: I think he looked. I think he was too smart

738
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: for his own good. And that's probably a lot of

739
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: the reason. A lot to be said for that. I mean,

740
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: you actually would much prefer like some union wheel and

741
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: deal in politician at the time, because at least you

742
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: could just very clearly cut the book behind Me, Freedom

743
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: from Fear, one of my favorite books, is exactly about

744
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: a purely non ideological man. His name was Franklin D. Roosevelt.

745
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: Most people remember him as the progression. No, he didn't

746
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: believe in any of that, and that's fine. He just

747
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: recognized this is what needs to be done in order

748
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: to save this country. He said, or one of his

749
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: advisers said at the time, he'll be the last president

750
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: of the United States States if he fails. I still

751
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: believe that to be true. But speaking of class politics,

752
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,439
Speaker 1: we've got some fun new You can see a great

753
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: name there on the screen, Jeff Bezos. Let's go to

754
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 1: this one. Let's put it up there on the screen.

755
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos will fly aboard Blue Origins first human trip

756
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: to space. So this happens shortly after he will be

757
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: stepping down from stepping down as CEO of Amazon. He'll

758
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: be taking that trip to space next month the Rocket Company,

759
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 1: with the Rocket Company founded two decades ago. Bezos has

760
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 1: actually always been obsessed with space. It's something I learned

761
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: when reading a lot about him. And he's actually going

762
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: with his brother. Now, look, there's a lot to be

763
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: said here, but I think what it actually comes down

764
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: to is this, which is that this is an obscene display.

765
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: Not because I judge bet Jeff Bezos for having a

766
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: rocket company. But because what do we know what we

767
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: recently reported in our last week at Rising with Ryan Grimm,

768
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: which is that the Senator from Washington, Maria Cantwell, actually

769
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: had specific appropriations written into the bill in order to

770
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: benefit F. Bezos' company, Blue Origin, and the exact money

771
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: that NASA was unable to get their hands on. So

772
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: let's let's put that in correct context. Bezos weaponizes his

773
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: clout in the city of Washington or in the state

774
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: of Washington, with his ownership of Amazon is a world's

775
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: were just man his ownership of the Washington Post, so

776
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: we can guarantee, you know, some sort of political benefit

777
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 1: and all that in order to leverage additional billions of

778
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: dollars of funds to his new space company, or his

779
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: space company, which is not even nearly as successful as

780
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: SpaceX by the way, all of the billionaire space spaceship competition,

781
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 1: space Realm, he's a loser. And with all of that,

782
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: so he can take a little joy ride to space.

783
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it did pump billions of dollars of

784
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: his own money into all that, and I think he

785
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: actually has done a lot of benefit whenever it comes

786
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: to space exploration, something I'm a passionate believer in. But

787
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: whenever you see it so clearly of I'm going to

788
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: space with my brother, a certain level of Bezos and

789
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 1: of Amazon is about his vanity. That's that's it. And

790
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: vanity projects. When you're worth one hundred and something whatever billion,

791
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy billion or whatever he is right now,

792
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: they have consequences for the rest of us. Those are

793
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: taxpayer dollars. I'm not like a deficit hawk. And if

794
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: you know, if funding Blue Origin was going to be,

795
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: you know, exponentially greater for America, go for it. Yeah,

796
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: but that's not what's happening for a bunch of like

797
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,760
Speaker 1: luxury space fellow billionaire so he can go to space.

798
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: I think it's wrong that we're basically funding his little

799
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: trip to space. I think it's completely wrong. He released

800
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: a very highly cringe Instagram video with his brother because

801
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: he invited his brother to go along with him, and

802
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: they have this whole like phony setup, like we're seeing

803
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: live the moment when he asked his brother to go,

804
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: which of course maybe I was. I don't know, all right,

805
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 1: I don't want, okay whatever, But what he says about

806
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: why he wants to go to space. He predicts it

807
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: he'll be a new man after his journey. Quote, it

808
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: changes your relationship with this planet, with humanity. It's one Earth.

809
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 1: I want to go on this flight because it's the

810
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: thing I've wanted to do all my life. That last

811
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: parting is really true, like it's to help people. I

812
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: want to go. But his idea of like connecting with humanity,

813
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: you like, ask the workers, how about you connect with

814
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: humanity by going and talking to some workers in your

815
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: warehouses or delivery drivers. How about you connect with humanity

816
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: that way? The other thing is I wanted to ask

817
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: you about this. Yes, this seems a little bit fake

818
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: because if you read the details of what what's the

819
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: thing called blue Origin? What actually does? It goes up

820
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: to like the technical lowest point that's considered space and

821
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: hangs out there for a couple of minutes and then

822
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: comes back Because we is that's because I think for

823
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: layman like me that don't really like pay attention to

824
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: and stuff, when you say like space travel, you think

825
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: of something very different. You think of like orbiting or

826
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: like going No, they just literally go up to like ye,

827
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: the lowest point that can technically be considered space, experience weightlessness,

828
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 1: and come back down. So I also I feel like

829
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: the whole thing is a little bit fake and a

830
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: little bit different than what people would expect. It's hokey

831
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: in that. Look the billionaires people who are going to

832
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: pay thirty five million dollars a seat, like that's what

833
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: they're paying for. And look, I mean if I had

834
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: the money, I would do it too. I think that's

835
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: awesome too. Oh one percent in order to see the

836
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: curvature of the Earth and the blue of the ocean. No,

837
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: shoot me up, Okay, I'm ready. But yeah, look, if

838
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 1: I had to choose, I would much choose like lower

839
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: Earth orbit or interplanetary space. That's something that we don't

840
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: have to go all the way down. But yeah, you're

841
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: correct in that it is a cheaters definition in my

842
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: okay of that, But you actually found and will you know,

843
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: tie in the actual element of it. Yeah, when you

844
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: put this all together, how did Bezos get his wealth?

845
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: Let's put this up there Ryan Cooper's tweet, which is

846
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: that Amazon allotted eleven minutes and fifteen seconds for two

847
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: drivers to transport a fifty nine part automan to a

848
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: customer's room of choice, unpack it and assemble it. Now

849
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: that's really important because, as Ryan Cooper shows, you can

850
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: actually see the serious incident per one hundred full time

851
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: employee equivalents at Amazon across twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen,

852
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: and twenty twenty. Amazon warehouse is there on the left

853
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: and non Amazon workhouse is there on the right, which

854
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: is that the brutal efficiency of this company. Once again, look,

855
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: Amazon is awesome. These leather things which are on the desk,

856
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,359
Speaker 1: I got them overnight. That's crazy, Like they were literally able.

857
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: I clicked order. The next morning, I was able. I

858
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: woke up and the lady was right there giving it

859
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 1: to me. It was like five thirty or whatever in

860
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: the morning. That's insane. That's actually like a crazy development.

861
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: But this is the price. And it's not day one anymore.

862
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 1: You know at Amazon they have this mantra called always

863
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: day one, which is that it's like it's always but

864
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: it's not like we have to admit this. You were

865
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: worth personally over one hundred billion dollars. You're a trillion

866
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: dollar company on that in One of the things that

867
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: we discovered in the industrial age is that whenever you

868
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: saw the rise of industrialization. Obviously we had workers that

869
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: were treated horrifically, But actually what happened is that unionization

870
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: made both the companies with mega profit margins stronger in

871
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: the long run because of unionization, which then created middle

872
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: class wealth in towns like Bethlehem and Moore, which created

873
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: the conditions for those towns to thrive for decades. Middle

874
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 1: class livelihood and stable corporate governance. These are two very,

875
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: very good things. But Amazon has virulently remained anti union.

876
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: They will remain that way probably, it's like within their

877
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,399
Speaker 1: ethos they would rather like. What they'll do is they'll

878
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: raise pay to like seventeen dollars an hour or whatever.

879
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, you've only got

880
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: eleven minutes and fifteen seconds to transport a fifty nine

881
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: part automan into a room of choice, unpacked and assemble it.

882
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 1: And oh, I just saw Walmart issued all of its

883
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: employees free Samsung phones. And just by the way, all

884
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: those phones, they'll track you all everywhere that you are

885
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: enjoy your free phone. Fuck it, I mean I don't

886
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 1: know what to say. Well, yeah, something that's so about

887
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: about our mats, going back to getting our mats over night,

888
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: like if and this is something that that Kyle always says,

889
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: He's probably said up publicly, is definitely said it to me,

890
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: is like I would like to check the box. That's like,

891
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: I'll get it a day later if you can promise

892
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: me that no driver is going to have to like

893
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: shit in a bag or you know, work warehouse workers

894
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: be exploited and their bodies ground down to a pulp.

895
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: I'll wait a day on my order. I'll pay a

896
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: little extra on my order to make sure that that

897
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,720
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be the case. And so the fact

898
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: is this is the end result of late stage capitalism America,

899
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: where the only thing that matters is profit margins. The

900
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: only thing that matters is bigger, bigger, bigger. The only

901
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: thing that matters is how much money you ultimately make.

902
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: And so the Vice article is about they have this

903
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: new service that they're sort of piloting, where now your

904
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: delivery drivers not only do you have this like already

905
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: totally brutal and exploitative job, but you also are now

906
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: being asked to unload, deliver, and unpack and assemble heavy

907
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: furniture pieces. They received no training on how to do this.

908
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: Vice actually has the training video quote unquote, and it's

909
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: just like these two people with robotic voices being like,

910
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: ask the customer did they like your service? That's it.

911
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: That's the training. You guys have all put furniture together.

912
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: Some of you may be good at it, so you

913
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: may not be good at it. I'm not particularly good

914
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: at it and would take me a freakin long time.

915
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: So the fact that they're just like, they're just pushing

916
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 1: this on these drivers with of course outrageously wildly inaccurate

917
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: estimates of how long the time is going to take.

918
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: And again, these drivers they face severe consequences up to

919
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: and including losing their job if they don't meet the

920
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 1: insane metrics that Amazon sets for them. So they have

921
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: another example here drivers were allocated less than three minutes

922
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: and forty four seconds for two drivers to transport a

923
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: king size Casper mattress. Those are the ones that are

924
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 1: all folded up. They have to take them out and

925
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: whatever to their customer's room choice, unpack it, and install it.

926
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: Mattress weighed one hundred and four pounds. Three minutes. You

927
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: get to do that, okay. Another driver had less than

928
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,839
Speaker 1: seven minutes to deliver and assemble a two hundred and

929
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: thirty four pound dining table. That's what they're asking these

930
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: workers to do. Crazy, totally ready, totally insane. And again

931
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: this you can see this in the overall stats, the

932
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: number of workplace injuries that Amazon sustains versus their competitors.

933
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 1: It's absolutely brutal. And so to bring it all back around,

934
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos is gonna connect with humanity by going to

935
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: space congradulate action with his workers from space as well. Wow,

936
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: you guys must really like listening to our voices, because

937
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: here I am again asking you to become a premium

938
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,160
Speaker 1: member at crystalandsager dot com so you don't have to

939
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: hear these please, And as annoying as I know this is,

940
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: it's not a viagric commercial like you're gonna see on

941
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,760
Speaker 1: cable news. So go ahead and count your lucky stars.

942
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 1: As you're about to notice, the free show does not

943
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 1: include the discussion after each of our monologues, which is

944
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: one of our premium benefits. Help us be the corporate

945
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: media today. Get access to the full show. Take care, guys.

946
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: At the same time, Crystal, what are your breaking points today? Well,

947
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: shocking new video is making the rounds on social media. First,

948
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 1: let me give you a little bit of background here

949
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: miners at Warrior met Coal in Alabama. They've been on

950
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 1: strike over unfair labor practices for months now. Eleven hundred

951
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: workers have been protesting low wages and subpar benefits since

952
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: early April. What essentially happened is these workers agreed to

953
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 1: take a huge pay cut a few years back when

954
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 1: the previous company called Walter Energy filed for bankruptcy. The

955
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: new company that emerged from bankruptcy has a bunch of

956
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 1: private equity owners along with the old CEO and owner

957
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: of Walter Energy. But workers they've been left out of

958
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: the newfound prosperity. According to the miners, all they're really

959
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: asking for is to get back to the pay that

960
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: they were earning five years ago. They've been met with

961
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 1: every strike breaking tactic in the book, from hired thugs

962
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,720
Speaker 1: to drone surveillance to scab labor. But what I'm about

963
00:50:55,760 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: to show you represents a shocking escalation. In two separate instances,

964
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: picketing miners and their supporters have been intentionally struck by cars.

965
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: Take a look at this. You can see one of

966
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: those instances here in which a UMWA representative from West

967
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: Virginia is hit by a boss's pickup truck as he

968
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: attempts to walk across the road to a picket line.

969
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: Absolutely outrageous how they think they can operate with total

970
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: impunity and be protected by a thoroughly bought and corrupted

971
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: political system. By the way, for anyone who so supports

972
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 1: these miners and wants to support them financially and posting

973
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: a link to their strike fund in the description box

974
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: for this video so you can back them there. It

975
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: has been tough times for these men and women and

976
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: for their families. Whatever support and solidarity you can provide

977
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: would go a long way. So while these miners have

978
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: gone all in on a visible, declared public strike, there's

979
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: some signs that there are a whole lot of workers

980
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 1: across the country right now engaging in their own low

981
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: key general strike after bearing the brunt a pandemic era

982
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: death and exploitation, silent, unspoken, uncoordinated collective action that is

983
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: reshaped the face of the labor market. It's actually all

984
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: very passive aggressive. So the first sign was when bosses

985
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 1: started complaining about how they couldn't find any workers to

986
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: come back to their crappy, low wage jobs. A rash

987
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: of articles and social media posts complained that the three

988
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 1: hundred dollar out employment benefit was keeping workers lazy and

989
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: at home rather than where they belong, flipping burgers for

990
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: seven dollars and twenty five cents per hour, or waiting

991
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 1: tables and being harassed for even less. How dare working

992
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: class people consider an option other than persisting in low

993
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: paying jobs for employers who treat them as disposable. Next,

994
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,760
Speaker 1: at the higher end of the labor market, we started

995
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 1: hearing increasing demands from CEOs that their white collar workers

996
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: returned to the office or else they wouldn't be considered

997
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: good little employees any longer. Listen, guys, it's nice that

998
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,359
Speaker 1: you were able to see your kids and shit during

999
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: the pandemic, but now we need your butts back in

1000
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,800
Speaker 1: your cubicle seats so we can make sure nothing exists

1001
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: in your life except for work. The CEO of we

1002
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 1: Work made this memorable contribution arguing that you can sert

1003
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 1: the week from the chaff in your company by seeing

1004
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,919
Speaker 1: who wants to come back to the office. Those who

1005
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: want to come back should be considered more engaged, while

1006
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 1: quote those who are least engaged are very comfortable working

1007
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,760
Speaker 1: from home now, white collar workers, they're not just accepting

1008
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 1: this attitude though. According to Flex Jobs, fifty eight percent

1009
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: of workers who did their jobs remotely during the pandemic

1010
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: said they would absolutely look for a new job if

1011
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: they cannot continue their remote work arrangements. We've also seen

1012
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 1: a huge jump in the number of workers who are

1013
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: considering job changes, who have already quit, or who are

1014
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 1: planning to move to a less stressful and lower cost

1015
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,240
Speaker 1: part of the country, all with the goal of shifting

1016
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 1: the work life balance back in the direction of life

1017
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,240
Speaker 1: and more. Data just continues to pour. In new column

1018
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: by Neil Irwin of The New York Times argues that

1019
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: workers are beginning to gain something that they haven't had

1020
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 1: in a long time over employers, a tiny little bit

1021
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: of leverage. I don't want to understay things here, but

1022
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: there are some interesting signs. The share of job postings

1023
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: that say no experience necessary that is shot up by

1024
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 1: two thirds, indicating that employers are in life of a

1025
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: position to be choosy. The dollar amount that's necessary to

1026
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: lure a non college educated worker into the workforce has

1027
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: jumped up almost ten thousand dollars since twenty nineteen. Half

1028
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: of employers who have largely blue collar workforces are finding

1029
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: it difficult to retain their employees. That's a spike of

1030
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 1: nineteen percent, So to sum it up, something is happening

1031
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 1: up and down the income scale. People got a little

1032
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 1: bit of money in their accounts from unemployment checks, child

1033
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: tax credits, and direct stimulus. They had a year that,

1034
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: one way or another, turned their lives upside down and

1035
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: gave them also a chance to reassess. Those with the

1036
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: money and luxury of reordering their priorities are considering that

1037
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: maybe work doesn't have to be the sole locus of

1038
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 1: their identity. But even those who are living paycheck to

1039
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: paycheck are seeking new lines of work, moving away from

1040
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,399
Speaker 1: the brutal frontline tasks that were so hard hit during

1041
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: the coronavirus. A backlash to this teeny tiny flex of

1042
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: worker power is of course, already well underway. The right

1043
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: wing is all in on trying to make unemployment more

1044
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 1: brutal and tear force workers back in exploitative situations. The

1045
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 1: Biden administration, seemingly embracing some of this framing FDR talk

1046
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: has gone along with Biden's plans for new social spending.

1047
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,399
Speaker 1: The fifteen dollars, minimum wage and the pro Union pro

1048
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: Act have completely disappeared from site. The pro corporate side,

1049
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: they only know how to answer labor shortages with punishment

1050
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: and sticks. It's all unemployment cuts and work requirements and

1051
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: cultural shame and stigma. The left response is to be happy,

1052
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: of course, about any marginal improvement in labor market conditions,

1053
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: while recognizing that the big business cycle may occasionally give it,

1054
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: but mostly the business cycle taketh away. Any modest gains

1055
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: for workers can be immediately erased by the next Wall

1056
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: Street created crash or bubble. Without a clear list of

1057
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: demands and policy wins, slight short term improvements will be

1058
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 1: immediately lost to decades of grinding exploitation. But it's all interesting,

1059
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: kind of provocative, isn't it to see the impact of

1060
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 1: a pandemic induced collective action happening organically across classes in indue.

1061
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 1: Now imagine if that action became intentional, became coordinated in

1062
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,760
Speaker 1: an actual general strike. If the demands were made clear,

1063
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 1: the adversarial nature of the action explicit. Just like the miners,

1064
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,839
Speaker 1: there'd be no guarantees and you'd be in for a

1065
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: whole lot of abuse. The media, of course, would ignore

1066
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:19,479
Speaker 1: what's going on for as long as they possibly could,

1067
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: then they demonize it. The corporate bosses would lash out

1068
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: in ways that might be a little more sophisticated, but

1069
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 1: would amount to the same intent as hitting workers with

1070
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,320
Speaker 1: cars to scare the next one stepping out of line

1071
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: for now, so solidarity to these miners. Don't let up

1072
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: the pressure and the attention, and I am all in

1073
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,720
Speaker 1: on the passive aggressive general strike. The games may be small,

1074
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: and they are likely temporary, but at least they offer

1075
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 1: a glimpse of what's possible and Saga, we keep getting

1076
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: It's me again, guys. We hope that you're loving the show.

1077
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 1: If you have any questions, you know where you can

1078
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 1: ask them. Go to Crystalinsaga dot com. Become a premium

1079
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 1: member and then you'll get to participate and weekly ask

1080
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,080
Speaker 1: me anything. The link is in the show notes you

1081
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: do for your breaking points. Well, you guys know I

1082
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: love UFOs and now that you are fans are the

1083
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: only people who are my boss. It means I can

1084
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: talk about it as much as I want. And luckily,

1085
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 1: while we were off, a major development in the UFO

1086
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: world occurred with the Pentagon preemptively trying to get ahead

1087
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: of what looks to be a stunning report due in

1088
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: the next several weeks analyzing its own data regarding the

1089
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: UFO phenomenon. Now, the report is due out for members

1090
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: of Congress. But because I used to cover the Pentagon,

1091
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: I know their little tricks. The Pentagon hates Congress because

1092
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: it legally has to tell them all their secrets, at

1093
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: least ostensibly, and that usually means that those secrets, at

1094
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: least some become public. Therefore, when you know something is

1095
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: about to come out and Congress is going to leak it,

1096
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 1: what do you do? You leak it yourself on the

1097
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: condition that the people that you leak it to write

1098
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: the story the way that it's best for you and

1099
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: serves your interests. That's exactly what happened Friday with the

1100
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: New York Times, where the headline play quote government finds

1101
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: no evidence aerial sidings were alien spacecraft. Oh wow, that's

1102
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: huge news, right they ruled out aliens for UFOs. Yeah,

1103
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 1: they forgot to add this part quote, but they still

1104
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: cannot explain the unusual movements that have mystified scientists and

1105
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 1: the military. Oh so, basically, they have no evidence its

1106
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: aliens and no evidence that it's not. Critically within the story.

1107
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 1: The forthcoming UFO report concludes that some of the UFO

1108
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:35,080
Speaker 1: sidings by US military aircraft have no discernible human explanation. Furthermore,

1109
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: they rule out, at least for now, something even more important,

1110
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: that the technology, at least according to them, is not

1111
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: top secret US government technology. And then if you read

1112
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 1: even further, you get this bombshell line quote. One possible

1113
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: explanation that the phenomena could be weather balloons or other

1114
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: research balloons does not hold up in all cases, the

1115
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: officials said, because of changes in speed at the times

1116
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: of some of the interactions. So this is huge. The

1117
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: weather balloon explanation has been a number one response from

1118
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 1: the professional debunkers, and now you have the military itself

1119
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 1: saying Nope, according to the data, that's not it. But

1120
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: still that's not everything. All of this leads to an

1121
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: important conclusion. The Pentagon is gaslighting the media into reporting

1122
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: that they have found no evidence of aliens, when in reality,

1123
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 1: the news is that they have evidence that the phenomena

1124
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: they have encountered are not human and that they are

1125
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: themselves just ruled out the most possible conventional explanations. More so,

1126
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: the Pentagon is doing its best to avoid admitting to

1127
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 1: the American people the most basic thing. They have no

1128
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: idea what UFOs are. Now, personally, I'm okay with that,

1129
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: but because so much of their authority rests upon convincing

1130
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 1: people otherwise, they are pointing the media in the opposite direction,

1131
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: telling reporters there is quote worry among Intel officials that

1132
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 1: China or Russia could be experimenting with hypersonic technology. Now, again,

1133
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: this is simply more cya from the Pentagon. They are

1134
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: pointing towards a hypothesis which has no evidence to back

1135
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: it up, but fits conveniently within their narrative. If it's

1136
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: a China or Rusher problem, well, then of course they

1137
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: can call Congress. They can say, hey, we need more

1138
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 1: money or we need more contracts in order to keep up.

1139
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 1: I've said before this is not a syop created to

1140
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: get more funding in the first place, but the syop

1141
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: could be trying to deal with the force disclosure of

1142
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: UFOs and channel it in a direction that they know best. Overall,

1143
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: I'm coming and covering this to reveal something that I've

1144
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: learned when reporting on foreign policy for my entire professional life.

1145
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 1: The media are water carriers for the defense industrial complex,

1146
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 1: and on the subject of UFOs, the situation is not different.

1147
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: They wrote basically what the Pentagon wanted them to, and

1148
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:56,479
Speaker 1: it's not a coincidence that it was the exact same

1149
01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 1: headline from CNN, the Washington Post, and The New York Times.

1150
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: It's manufacturing consent. It's worse than having an agenda. It's

1151
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: simply being uninformed and then doing what the people who

1152
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 1: control information flay flow want you to do. The problem

1153
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 1: itself is a deep lack of curiosity. The state of

1154
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,479
Speaker 1: our political press today is such that they are more

1155
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: interested in litigating which member of Congress is for a

1156
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 1: January sixth commission than rather than interrogating a government report

1157
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: on whether there may be alien life on this planet. Now, look,

1158
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: maybe there's no aliens. I have no idea. What I

1159
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: do know is that the government has covered up the

1160
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 1: UFO phenomenon since the beginning. The only reason we are

1161
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: as far as we are today is because of the

1162
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 1: dogged work of journalists like George Knapp and Jeremy Corbel,

1163
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: and because of whistleblowers from inside like Louis Alizondo, Christopher

1164
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: mellon pressuring elected representatives to force the hand of the

1165
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 1: government machine. And I think Crystal that it was very

1166
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 1: important joining us now the New York Times, Ben Smith

1167
01:01:57,600 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: media columnists there for the Gray Lady. It's good to

1168
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: see Ben. Thank you for joining us. We really appreciate it. Yeah,

1169
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Congrats on the new show. Appreciate it. Well,

1170
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: that's why we wanted to have you on. I actually

1171
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 1: remember one of my favorite columns, part of the thing

1172
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: that I actually inspired this was about the rise of

1173
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: new media. I think it was one of the second

1174
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: or third ones that you actually did there in the Times,

1175
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: around about how people who are newly famous are famous

1176
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 1: to you, so to speak, like we have new rise

1177
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:27,160
Speaker 1: of internet celebrities not necessarily generally known to the public,

1178
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: but very well known to a select group. And at

1179
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 1: the same time, so we have media outlets like ours,

1180
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 1: you also have the thriving really of your own paper.

1181
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: What do you think that the juxtaposition of those two

1182
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 1: tell us about the media story that we're in right now. Yeah,

1183
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess as you described it, there are

1184
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 1: two big things going on. One is that like as

1185
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: in every at least every digital industry. The biggest things

1186
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: are getting bigger, you know, Google and Facebook, and then

1187
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 1: you know, on a much smaller scale in the news

1188
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 1: business than New York Times, Disney and that flicks I mean,

1189
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: and it's you know, and what used to be a

1190
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 1: landscape and news of you know, dozens and dozens of

1191
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 1: big metropolitan newspapers is now this, you know, is now

1192
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: increasingly just a couple of giant players. And then almost

1193
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 1: inevitably at the same time, lots of news small stuff

1194
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 1: is springing up in the cracks and the sidewalk and

1195
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: people there's a new technical ability which you are doing

1196
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: to reach reach an audience correctly and charge them. What

1197
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:36,480
Speaker 1: is the assessment or analysis or feeling within those larger organizations,

1198
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 1: and what is the term of art you prefer elite media,

1199
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: legacy media, corporate media, you've probably done so, corporate media.

1200
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: But what I would be interested to know your term

1201
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: of art for that space that we're talking about. What

1202
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 1: is the assessment and feeling there about the rise of

1203
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 1: people on substack platforms like ours, other institutions that are

1204
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 1: sort of coming from the grassroots up is their awareness

1205
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 1: of it, is their nervousness about it, is their condescension

1206
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 1: contain towards it. What you what's your assessment there, well,

1207
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:08,479
Speaker 1: for for for my own purposes, I would say mostly contempt, yes,

1208
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 1: personally right, personally, yeah, I mean these institute, these big

1209
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 1: institutions are doing really well. Like I don't think there's

1210
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 1: any sense at the Washington Post or the Times of

1211
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: sort of panic about substack, right, I mean, these are

1212
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 1: these institutions are really thriving using the same kind of

1213
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 1: digital subscription businesses. I mean, I think the folks who

1214
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 1: are panicked are the kind of medium sized players, the

1215
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: regional newsp papers, the kind of medium sized websites that

1216
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 1: are seeing on one hand that you know where we're there,

1217
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 1: you know where their most successful employees are, you know,

1218
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 1: either going to go work somewhere really big or go

1219
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: at strikeout on their own. And I think it's very

1220
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 1: hard to hold those kind of like middle spaces right now.

1221
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think in the big newsrooms there

1222
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 1: is a real tension around. Essentially, on one hand, there's

1223
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: this new push for kind of egalitarianism through the labor

1224
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 1: movement and for a sense that everything salaries in particular

1225
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 1: should be and work, you know, nobody should be working

1226
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 1: too much harder than anybody else, nobody should be paid

1227
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 1: that much more than anybody else. And then on the

1228
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: other there is just this reality that somebody who is

1229
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: more of a star, whether because they work harder, because

1230
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 1: they are more popular, for whatever ever reason, can just

1231
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: leave and make way more money. And so Ben, this

1232
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: is what I'm curious from your perspective, which is that

1233
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 1: is this good or bad for journalism? Because look, I mean,

1234
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: we'll be honest, like, in terms of news gathering and

1235
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 1: all that, I haven't seen anybody do it yet quite

1236
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 1: the right way from a subscription model. So I know

1237
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: that there's a new sub stack, I believe correspondent at

1238
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:41,959
Speaker 1: the at the White House who now has a hard pass,

1239
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 1: who has a substack, Hunter Walker, formerly of Yahoo News.

1240
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:47,959
Speaker 1: But in terms it was just brand new, I think it. Literally,

1241
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 1: David Siroda's got the Daily Poster. There's a few elements

1242
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 1: that actual news gathering and reporting, but few and far

1243
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 1: between amongst money of the substack literati, or even frankly

1244
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 1: amongst shows like ourselves. So what do you think that

1245
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: means for the future of actual journalism, which is something

1246
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 1: I came up in and care a lot about. Well,

1247
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, i'd say, you know, opinion

1248
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 1: is a form of actual journalism. Don't sell yourself short interviews,

1249
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 1: you know, like this one. You're a better contempt for

1250
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 1: us aside reporting, the kind of reporting that takes a

1251
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 1: while and might not pay off, that isn't going to

1252
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 1: generate it in an email every day, that isn't necessarily

1253
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:28,400
Speaker 1: going to tell the audience what they want to hear

1254
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 1: every day. Doesn't fit so easily inside this kind of

1255
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 1: subscription model. And does you know is the core I

1256
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 1: think right now of what makes a place like The

1257
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: New York Times essential to subscribe too. It's not that

1258
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: it'll tell you what happened yesterday. It's that it'll have

1259
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: huge revelations about key stories. Our strategy has been to

1260
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 1: make sure some segment of our audience hates us every day,

1261
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 1: so sort of like equal opportunity in that way. Then

1262
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 1: I also wanted to ask you about New York City politics,

1263
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 1: because you came up in that world. Do you know

1264
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 1: what better than almost anyone, what's kind of your assessment

1265
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 1: of where the New York City mayoral race is right now?

1266
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 1: And I also want to ask in a minute about

1267
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 1: your column about Anthony Wiener, which is quite fascinating too.

1268
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the interesting thing is that there

1269
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 1: is this sense, I think, particularly among black New Yorkers

1270
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 1: who are a huge part of the Democratic primary electorate,

1271
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: that safety is the key, is the biggest issue. That

1272
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 1: you know, shootings are way up, that there's a sense

1273
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 1: in Manhattan at least of kind of and of kind

1274
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 1: of a disorder that comes from a lot of offices

1275
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: still being abandoned. So a lot of like the I

1276
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 1: guess more kind of white liberal Manhattan voters feel it there.

1277
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: And so a race that everybody thought a year ago

1278
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 1: was going to be about police reform and about kind

1279
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 1: of pushing the progressive envelope is about has become a

1280
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 1: race about, you know, about cracking down and guns and

1281
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:55,439
Speaker 1: the leading candidate and ex cop who's promising a sort

1282
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: of you know, reformist law and order platform. And it

1283
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 1: was to me, Ben, I remember your column on Andrew Yang,

1284
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 1: What did you make? There was a lot of original

1285
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 1: takes around Yang coming in the outsider candidate and more

1286
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 1: he's become probably more conventional as the race, as the

1287
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 1: course has moved on within the race from a media perspective,

1288
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 1: but also just the way that you've observed him, what

1289
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:20,640
Speaker 1: do you make of his candidacy and what do you

1290
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 1: think it actually means to New York City politics? Like

1291
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:25,600
Speaker 1: is it the actual death of the machine or is

1292
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: the machine actually still pretty powerful in the end. You know,

1293
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 1: the death of the machine was like thirty years ago.

1294
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 1: And people talk about urban machines and there are places

1295
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 1: where they matter, but the sort of machine hasn't really

1296
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 1: elected a mayor. I mean maybe since David Dinkins, but

1297
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: he who also had a lot of other stuff going

1298
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 1: on in his favor, and so so I think, yeah,

1299
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:50,839
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, yeah, I mean in some ways,

1300
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 1: you know, Rudy Giuliani and Mike Bloomberg have been mayor

1301
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:55,680
Speaker 1: for most of the last twenty years and so the

1302
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 1: last thirty years, and so the notion of kind of

1303
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 1: a charismatic outsider is is kind of warne keeping with

1304
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: the way New York is run, than the notion of

1305
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 1: kind of a Hackey Democrat interesting. But yeah, I mean,

1306
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 1: I think Yang's appeal was there's this sense that the

1307
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: city's coming back, that there's this broad sense of optimism

1308
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:17,760
Speaker 1: that is competing with a freak out about crime. And

1309
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 1: I think he sort of speaks to that. But also

1310
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 1: part of the problem is, you know, his big idea

1311
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 1: is is printing money and giving it away. The city

1312
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: can't print money. The constraints of local policy and a

1313
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 1: kind of administrative job with a balanced budget are just narrow, Like,

1314
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: there's not that much space for innovation. There's a lot

1315
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,680
Speaker 1: of space for kind of really really good administration. And

1316
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 1: so I think there's a sense that voters are looking

1317
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,559
Speaker 1: for that and Yang has no experience. Yeah, and then

1318
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 1: do you see this as kind of a classic like

1319
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 1: left in disarray divot of a narrative? Do because you

1320
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: had Diane Morale's positioned herself as sort of like the

1321
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 1: leftiest candidate in the race, and now that campaign seems

1322
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 1: to have imploded. Her staff workers are abandoning her. They

1323
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 1: wanted to form a union, They marched on her own headquarters.

1324
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:05,640
Speaker 1: Then old interviews emerged, old by which I mean like

1325
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,879
Speaker 1: a year ago in which she's backing Cuomo over Cynthia

1326
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 1: Nixon and embracing a lot of not very progressive policies.

1327
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: Scott Stringer hit by two different sexual harassmen or sexual

1328
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 1: assault allegations, both of which I would say, you know,

1329
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:22,679
Speaker 1: nobody knows what happened there, but there are some holes,

1330
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: significant holes in the stories of both of the women

1331
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 1: making these allegations. But that didn't stop the progressive movement

1332
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: from completely abandoning him. Now you have an attempt to

1333
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:34,559
Speaker 1: coalesce around Mayo Wiley, but it's so late in the game,

1334
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:37,799
Speaker 1: at this point where if you had had one candidate

1335
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: who was like the clear choice of the left, do

1336
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 1: you think that they might have had a fighting shot

1337
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: at actually winning the mayoral race or are these safety

1338
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 1: concerns just too primary for that to have even worked

1339
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 1: out in this cycle. I think it's a good question.

1340
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 1: I mean, think if AOC had run, you know, would

1341
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 1: she be winning right now? I think I don't know.

1342
01:10:57,600 --> 01:10:59,679
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Mayo Wiley is a pretty strong candidate.

1343
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: There is this, you know, Diane Morales's campaign collapsed just

1344
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,640
Speaker 1: in the most spectacular fashion I've ever seen, right, I mean,

1345
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:10,160
Speaker 1: it was really just devoured itself, And I think, really,

1346
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 1: not only did it, you know, destroy this kind of

1347
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 1: that corner of the less chances in this race, but

1348
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 1: I think made the sort of whole New York political

1349
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 1: universe at least think, wow, these people, can't you know

1350
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:26,600
Speaker 1: you can't let them near your campaign, right, like this

1351
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 1: sort of internal disarray that was just kind of spectacular. Watch. Yeah,

1352
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 1: that's great. Yea, al though, I think a lot of

1353
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:33,600
Speaker 1: those staffers, at least some of them moved over to

1354
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:36,680
Speaker 1: the Wily campaign, which is interesting too. You have a

1355
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: great and fascinating call him up right now about Anthony Wiener,

1356
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:42,639
Speaker 1: we can actually throw that tear sheet up on the screen.

1357
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 1: What made you want to write about him? What was

1358
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 1: it that you wanted to dig into or think about

1359
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 1: with Anthony Wiener? I mean, you know, partly, I'm just

1360
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 1: obsessed with the mayor's race, honestly and was looking for

1361
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:57,400
Speaker 1: an excuse to write about it. But the guy, you know,

1362
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 1: I had covered him for years, played a minor role

1363
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 1: in his political collapse. And I think that when you

1364
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 1: get you know, when you're at the bottom of the

1365
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 1: media pile, you do develop an interesting perspective on on media.

1366
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a guy whose career I don't think

1367
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: you can't rehabilitate him. He's a convicted sex offender. And

1368
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: yet also on the other hand, you know, he went

1369
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 1: unlike a lot of people who've been in Twitter jail,

1370
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 1: he was in federal prison for eighteen months, and so

1371
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 1: there's just this question, what do you do with somebody

1372
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:31,040
Speaker 1: like that kind of interest? Me? Oh, it's fascinating. Well,

1373
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 1: we encourage everybody to go and read it. Ben We

1374
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 1: really appreciate you joining us our first week here at

1375
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 1: Breaking Points. Thanks very much, Thanks ben Relations, good to

1376
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 1: see him, Thanks Benett, Thanks everybody for watching Breaking Points.

1377
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:44,400
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Speaker 1: to watch the show one hour early completely uncut, listen

1382
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Speaker 1: to it uncut as a podcast as well, and you

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Speaker 1: really help us dial in some of the issues around here.

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01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:04,000
Speaker 1: Running a high ENTV production actually turns out is really hard,

1385
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:06,280
Speaker 1: and it turns out a lot of things we didn't know.

1386
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 1: There's long we were just like sitting there being talent

1387
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: festible levels, desk design which some of us have massed.

1388
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Speaker 1: And by the way, guys, we have been paying attention

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01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 1: to your comments, so we appreciate the feedback because we

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Speaker 1: want to continue to improve and up our game. This

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Speaker 1: isn't like a static situation. Where we're just this is

1392
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:25,720
Speaker 1: what it is, and we're going to continue in this phase.

1393
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 1: But to know that, which is like, look, we had

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Speaker 1: no idea that was going to work out. We put

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01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:32,600
Speaker 1: put our own money on the line here around this

1396
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: set and the desk and a lot the studio and

1397
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Speaker 1: the crew that we had to hire and everything. This

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Speaker 1: is v one and so your support makes it so

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Speaker 1: that we can have continuous improvement and things are only

1400
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Speaker 1: getting started here and I am so so excited. Thank

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Speaker 1: you all to the premium members lifetime members. Can I

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01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:53,799
Speaker 1: also just say premium members yesterday got a little treat

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Speaker 1: with a little bonus out take, an intentional bonus outtake

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Speaker 1: of yours, which they seem to really enjoy it. Yeah,

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01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:00,880
Speaker 1: I guess you guys, really you want to know that

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01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:03,880
Speaker 1: behind the scenes magic is me even like god, damn it.

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01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 1: I mean, normally we're perfect. That was just a really

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01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:10,720
Speaker 1: rare instance where we weren't absolutely perfect on the first day.

1409
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Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, all right, So congratulations, welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Welcome to what it really looks like back here whenever

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Speaker 1: the cameras turn off. We appreciate you guys so much,

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Speaker 1: produce this all here. Yeah, we will see you all

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