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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey Darren, welcome back. You have found The Book of

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Speaker 1: Joe with me, Tom Berducci, and of course Joe Madden. Joe,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you looked ahead to the schedule

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Speaker 1: for this weekend, but there's a very interesting series in

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Speaker 1: the Bronx. The Los Angeles Dodgers are playing the New

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Speaker 1: York Yankees. It's their third trip regular season trip is

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Speaker 1: for the Dodgers too, Yankee Stadium. And what's interesting to me, Joe,

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Speaker 1: is that we started this year talking of course about

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers with the addition of Shoeotani and the top

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Speaker 1: of their lineup with three MVPs, Mookie Betts, Shoeyotani, Freddie Freeman,

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Speaker 1: they've been really, really good. But as we sit here

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Speaker 1: entering early June, the top of the Yankees lineup has

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Speaker 1: outplayed them. Anthony Volpi, Wan Soto and Aaron Judge. I

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Speaker 1: want your take on the top three of those lineups

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Speaker 1: and which one you would have, because statistically right now,

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Speaker 1: the Yankees have an edge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, both really good.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, the expectations are so high for the Dodgers, and

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Speaker 3: they're high for the Yankees, but not as high as

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Speaker 3: normal based on what they.

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Speaker 2: Had done last year.

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Speaker 3: So I just think there's more motivation out of the

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Speaker 3: shoot for the Yankees right now than there had been

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Speaker 3: for the Dodgers.

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Speaker 2: In a sense. Show has kind of lived up to it.

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Speaker 3: The other guy's been playing well, obviously, but Show he's

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Speaker 3: the guy that's really been the shining light. And then

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Speaker 3: vault Ba, to me, is the guy that really deserves

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Speaker 3: a lot of credit here because he did change his swing.

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Speaker 3: When I saw him last ye didn't quite understand why

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Speaker 3: he was so highly touted offensively. I know he had

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Speaker 3: some home runs, but he did not like the swing

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Speaker 3: at all. Now I watch him, it's completely different player.

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Speaker 3: Even photographs of him indicate a more confident young man.

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Speaker 2: And that's it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I really think he and everybody's the Oh

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Speaker 3: the guys are great, But I love what Volpi's doing

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Speaker 3: and he does it on defense too, So I think

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Speaker 3: the Yankees a little bit more interior motivation going on

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Speaker 3: at the beginning of the season.

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Speaker 2: The Dodgers will catch up.

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Speaker 3: The Dodgers are going to get like, really tore it

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Speaker 3: at some point, and by the end of the season,

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Speaker 3: the record should be relatively the same, I would think.

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Speaker 3: But from the beginning of the year listen, and I

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Speaker 3: wasn't on this. I'm not saying I was, but I'm

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Speaker 3: just looking at it now. I think that the Yankees

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Speaker 3: really took the heart what had happened last year. I

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Speaker 3: love the way Cash defended his brood during the offseason.

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Speaker 3: He didn't back down. He stuck to his guns, as

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Speaker 3: they say, and I think he incorporated or infused a

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Speaker 3: group with a lot of confidence knowing that their leader,

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Speaker 3: their boss, has their back. So there's all that stuff

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Speaker 3: going on. But again, it's gonna be an interesting series,

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Speaker 3: but I think the Yankees a little bit more going

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Speaker 3: on regarding they had to do it as opposed to

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Speaker 3: the Dodgers really have to do.

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Speaker 2: It right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you brought up Vulpi because I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about that trans information that he

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Speaker 1: went through. Like you, I watched him last year and

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Speaker 1: I thought that swing is not going to play, and

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Speaker 1: it really didn't. The Yankees were in a phase throughout

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Speaker 1: their system in which they were really emphasizing getting the

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Speaker 1: ball in the air to the poll side. And of

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Speaker 1: course we all know how important home runs are in

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Speaker 1: today's game, and that's what you want. But when you're

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Speaker 1: trying to teach everybody to do that, you write it

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Speaker 1: to cases like Anthony Volpi five nine, one hundred and

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Speaker 1: eighty pounds really good athletes. Got a lot of speed.

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Speaker 1: That should not be his game, and you saw it

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Speaker 1: last year. There's way too much going on with his swing,

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Speaker 1: a lot of head movement, a lot of uphill in

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Speaker 1: that swing. He could not hit fastballs at the top

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Speaker 1: of his own hit one twenty five on fastballs elevated

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Speaker 1: inside fastballs, couldn't get to them one ninety five, and

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Speaker 1: that made him susceptible to breaking pitches. And I think

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Speaker 1: he had so much head movement in his swing that

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Speaker 1: he wasn't tracking breaking pitches, made poor decisions on breaking pitches.

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Speaker 1: He hit won forty eight against breaking pitches.

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Speaker 2: Joe.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of holes in somebody's swing. If you

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Speaker 1: can't hit the breaking stuff and you can't get on

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Speaker 1: top of high fastballs, there's just too many ways to

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Speaker 1: get you out. So to his credit, he completely remade

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Speaker 1: his swing and he's playing what I know you'd like

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Speaker 1: this phrase, Joe, he's playing nineteen eighties baseball. At the

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Speaker 1: plate right. He is embracing ground balls. His ground ball

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Speaker 1: rate is up from forty one to fifty two percent.

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Speaker 1: That's at a time when a lot of people, antic

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Speaker 1: people in the game will say ground balls are bad.

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Speaker 1: Don't hit the ball on the ground. He's hitting the

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Speaker 1: other ball the other way. He's gone from twenty three

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Speaker 1: percent opposite field hitting the thirty two percent. That's a

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Speaker 1: big jump. He's putting the ball in play. He's cut

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Speaker 1: down his strikeout rate from twenty eight percent to twenty

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Speaker 1: one percent. He's cut his pole percentage. This is really

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Speaker 1: interesting to me, Joe. He's cut his poll rate from

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Speaker 1: twenty one percent. My brother, from twenty six percent. I'll

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Speaker 1: get this right, give me one more shot. He's cut

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Speaker 1: his poll rate from forty seven percent to twenty five percent.

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Speaker 1: That's by far the biggest decline in baseball. I mean,

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Speaker 1: those are big, big changes to me, Joe. The Yankees

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Speaker 1: didn't have a leadoff hitter unless Bulky Volpi made these changes.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they talked about dj Lemayhew. I don't think

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Speaker 1: he's at the point in his career where you really

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Speaker 1: want him leading off, and it really sets the traffic

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Speaker 1: up for Soto and judge. To have a guy who's

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Speaker 1: now getting on base putting the ball on the ground,

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Speaker 1: you know he can score from first base on the

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Speaker 1: kind of a gapper. A leadoff hitter gets on base

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Speaker 1: thirty five percent of the time with speed. I think

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Speaker 1: Anthony Volpi has been the difference maker on this team.

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Speaker 1: So I'm curious, Joe, if, in the course of your

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Speaker 1: long career here and how much you know about hitting,

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Speaker 1: what he has done. Is that extraordinary for you? For

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Speaker 1: someone to do this at the major league level after

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Speaker 1: a rookie season, especially.

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Speaker 3: It would be if he had not ever done it before.

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Speaker 3: I'd be curious about that. What was he like before

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Speaker 3: the Yankee hitting instructors try to get him to pull

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Speaker 3: the ball lifted in the air. What did he look

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Speaker 3: like prior to that? Was some of this already built in?

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Speaker 3: Was his high school coach onto it? I don't even

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Speaker 3: know if you went to college or not, wherever he

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Speaker 3: was before that they asked him to do the lift

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Speaker 3: and pull and separate kind of a thing.

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Speaker 2: What did he look like now?

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Speaker 3: If he had some of that in his history, you know,

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Speaker 3: you could relatively easily. I'd say, get back to it.

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Speaker 3: If you've never done it before. Then it becomes a

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Speaker 3: little bit more difficult. Then it really requires a great athlete.

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Speaker 3: Part of it is great being a great athlete. Part

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Speaker 3: of it is I really want to do this, and

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Speaker 3: how important it is to me and my career and

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Speaker 3: the team. You move it forward knowing that I have

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Speaker 3: to make these adjustments and all that stuff would be

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Speaker 3: pertinent and very very important. So I don't know, I'd

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Speaker 3: like to know what his history is, just to go

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Speaker 3: in there and start using the other side. I'm not

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Speaker 3: saying it's impossible. I mean, I've done that with a

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Speaker 3: lot of guys, and everything you described right there was

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Speaker 3: what you do when you try to become a better hitter.

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Speaker 3: You let the speed of the ball dictate where you

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Speaker 3: hit it. You don't try to pull everything. You open

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Speaker 3: up the opposite side of the fields. You make it

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Speaker 3: more difficult to pitch to you, you're able to cover

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Speaker 3: a wide variety of pitches. You cut down on your chase.

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Speaker 3: Everything you described right there that he's done in the

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Speaker 3: case he should have become a better hitter.

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Speaker 2: But the ability of the fact.

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Speaker 3: That what he's doing and he's done it so appears

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Speaker 3: to be easily or seamlessly. I'd be curious if he

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Speaker 3: had that in and before all this took place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and just to throw some numbers at you, now

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Speaker 1: you know what Volpi has done. Top three in the

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Speaker 1: Yankees lineup have forty four homers one hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: five RBIs top of the Dodgers' lineup, thirty home runs

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Speaker 1: one oh five RBIs slugging percentage the top three for

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Speaker 1: the Yankees five sixty seven bets, so Tony Freeman five thirty.

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Speaker 1: That's an edge, maybe not a huge edge, but a

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Speaker 1: clear edge for New York over Los Angeles. And if

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Speaker 1: you look at some of the overall metrics, the Yankees

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Speaker 1: have the are starting pitching staff, they have the better bullpen.

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Speaker 1: I think the Dodgers are a better base running team

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Speaker 1: and Dodgers are a better defensive team, but when you

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Speaker 1: look at defense at offense, I'm sorry, the Yankees right

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Speaker 1: now are a better team than Dodgers. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: if it's going to be that way in October, Joe,

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Speaker 1: but right now, I mean, the Yankees are just absolutely flying,

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Speaker 1: and they were clicking on all cylinders.

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Speaker 3: Like you said, Volpi setting the table, not judge, has

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Speaker 3: become Judge again, So it was pretty much carried it

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Speaker 3: all the way through. And you know they're going to

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Speaker 3: go through a bad moment, there's no question about it,

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Speaker 3: Whereas I think the Dodgers are going to go through

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Speaker 3: a really good moment. So I mean, I would say

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Speaker 3: by the middle the season, towards August, you're going to

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Speaker 3: see a lot of similarities in the numbers between both teams.

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Speaker 3: One's going to ascend a little bit, maybe one's going

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Speaker 3: to come back to the to the Median a little bit,

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Speaker 3: but overall they're going to be this good for the

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Speaker 3: rest of the year, be a very interesting World Series

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Speaker 3: if it ever got to that point. But I it's

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Speaker 3: just early in a sense. With the Dodgers, Like I said,

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Speaker 3: I think that they gosh, when they got show, everybody

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Speaker 3: started penciling them in for the for becoming another dynasty

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Speaker 3: kind of a situation. They've had one World Series and

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Speaker 3: that was in the twenty twenty season. They haven't really

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Speaker 3: won a World Series in a regular season for a

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Speaker 3: long time, so they're really hungry for that. I believe

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Speaker 3: this is going to be really neck and neck all year.

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Speaker 3: Both teams are going to play well. Like you said,

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Speaker 3: the difference maker for me, obviously is the Yankee pitching

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Speaker 3: staff and what they're doing there.

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Speaker 2: They've been outstanding.

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Speaker 3: Their bullpen's been outstanding also, so that to me is

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Speaker 3: the biggest difference maker I would think record wise right now,

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Speaker 3: so that the Yankee pitching has really held up more

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Speaker 3: than the Dodgers have, which is kind of unusual. You'd

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Speaker 3: normally expect all of that out of the Dodgers staff

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Speaker 3: all the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and as you mentioned, the Yankees pitching has been

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Speaker 1: outstanding and they only have the Cy Young Winner coming

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Speaker 1: back to the team pretty soon. Garrett Coles was making

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Speaker 1: rehab starts, so it's a solid team. They've had other

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Speaker 1: than pretty good luck with injuries this year. Running the

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Speaker 1: same guys out there, it's been, like I said, they're

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Speaker 1: absolutely flying right now. Let me ask you about Juan Soto.

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Speaker 1: I'm not surprised he's doing this well. He really wanted

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Speaker 1: to play in New York. I think he's the most

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Speaker 1: predictable performer in baseball when it comes to his command

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Speaker 1: of the strike zone, how flat his swing is, the

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Speaker 1: fact that he posts and loves the game so much.

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Speaker 1: Not surprised at all he's doing this well. What's surprising

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Speaker 1: to me, Joe is how teams continue to challenge him

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Speaker 1: with high fastballs. I don't get it. Fifteen of his

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Speaker 1: seventeen home runs this year have been on fastballs middle

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Speaker 1: and up. He has not hit a home run. This

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Speaker 1: is amazing to me. He's not hit a fastball down

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Speaker 1: in the zone for a home run in a calendar

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Speaker 1: year since June of last year. I'm gonna give you

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Speaker 1: his slugging percentage based on fastballs in the zone. Top

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Speaker 1: of the zone it's over one thousand, ten fifty four.

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Speaker 1: Middle of the zone it's over this. It's over one thousand,

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Speaker 1: eleven twenty eight. The bottom third of the zone slugging

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Speaker 1: percentage is three thirteen. Well, why do people think I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna get my fastball by him? Or is it just

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Speaker 1: a matter of making mistakes to this guy because he

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Speaker 1: does not miss the elevated fastball.

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Speaker 3: Well, you mentioned the flatness of his swing, correct, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: oh yeah, and that's see that's I don't I don't

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Speaker 3: get it either, although it must be a large sample

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Speaker 3: size situation, meaning that if in fact, people were beating

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Speaker 3: him over the last year or so elevated I don't

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Speaker 3: know the answer to that question. But if they had

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Speaker 3: the Scotten reports going to indicate that's where you want

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Speaker 3: to go until it actually catches up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's never he's never been beaten upstairs ever. Remember

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Speaker 1: before the World Series in nineteen Kevin long then the

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Speaker 1: hitting coach to the Nationals, telling me that he's going

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Speaker 1: to hit a home run off Garrett Cole. He predicted it,

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Speaker 1: and I said, that's Garrett Cole. He's got the best

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Speaker 1: four seam ride in baseball. He said, I don't care.

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Speaker 1: No one can throw a force seeing fastball past one.

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Speaker 2: So but then it makes no sense.

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Speaker 1: And of course he hit a home run in the

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Speaker 1: World Series in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 3: Well, it makes no sense. I mean back to the

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Speaker 3: other point, flat swing. Anytime from a pitching perspective, you're

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Speaker 3: facing I was, we were facing a hitter with the

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Speaker 3: flat swing. I like breaking ball underneath that guy a lot.

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Speaker 3: It's hard for a hitter, whether he's right or left handed,

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Speaker 3: to do anything with the pitch down, down and in

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Speaker 3: when your swing's extremely flat.

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Speaker 2: Longo was kind of like that rockleball. Delly was like that, And.

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Speaker 3: Of course you're talking about Sodo being like that. So

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Speaker 3: it'd always identify flat swingers, and those are the ones

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Speaker 3: that you can get underneath starts, you know, strike ball

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Speaker 3: kind of a pitch. Again, I don't have privy to

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Speaker 3: all the information looking at the zones and the hot

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Speaker 3: zones whatever for all these particular hitters and especially Sodo

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Speaker 3: right now, but I'd be curious because flat swingers like

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Speaker 3: Tino Martinez could anybody's high fastball, but you wanted to

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Speaker 3: get underneath Tino back in the nineties because the swing

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Speaker 3: was so flat from the left side. Historically, left handed

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Speaker 3: hitters had more of that upper cut kind of a

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Speaker 3: thing growing up if you're a left thended hitter or

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Speaker 3: you were teaching lefties. All the coaches managers Whitey Herzog

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Speaker 3: wanted his left handed hitters to pull the hole between

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Speaker 3: first and second base. Came to instructional leagues and really

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Speaker 3: wanted me to work more on left handed hitters, all

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Speaker 3: of them to be able to do that and hit

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Speaker 3: that hole. Darren Nurstadt, one of the best elevated fastball

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Speaker 3: hitters I've seen in the nineties into early two thousands,

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Speaker 3: was getting beat underneath because of the flat swing. Then

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Speaker 3: he made the adjustment to get to the ball underneath

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Speaker 3: then he lost his ability to really handle the elevated fastball.

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Speaker 3: So you're making these kind of adjustments, be careful with

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Speaker 3: you what you're wishing for looking for, because sometimes you

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Speaker 3: could adjust from your strength and to cover a weakness,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, the strengths no longer your strength.

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Speaker 3: And I've seen that happen too. So just a long

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Speaker 3: story short, I would just say flat swingers in general,

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Speaker 3: I do like the ability to get underneath them. Underneath

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Speaker 3: would be like right handed pitcher to their back foot

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Speaker 3: and vice versa. That's underneath and when you could get

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Speaker 3: to that particular spot, they could be very beneficial. Now

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Speaker 3: you're talking about Soto, he doesn't chase a whole lot,

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Speaker 3: so that that works his benefit too, So you're right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'd have to study it more deeply. The

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Speaker 3: fact that he's handling large, elevated fastballs for a long

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Speaker 3: period of time and he keep wanting to go there.

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Speaker 3: It could just be the you know, the proliferation in general,

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Speaker 3: people wanting to throw elevated fastballs not realizing that this

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Speaker 3: guy can catch up to it. Longo was like that.

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Speaker 3: When Longo was younger, Longo could kill anybody's elevated fastball,

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Speaker 3: even Jason Heyward, Jason Hayward, big elevated fastball, if there

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Speaker 3: was an elevated fastball guy, regardless if he was struggling

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Speaker 3: or not, I knew Jayward was going to get on

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Speaker 3: that pitch. So and he's another flat swinger. So these

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Speaker 3: are the kind of things.

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Speaker 2: That you look at.

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Speaker 3: I look at, and I tried to pay more attention

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Speaker 3: to that as we moving forward, as I'm watching one

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Speaker 3: of the Yankee.

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Speaker 1: Games, Well, let me ask you about facing this New

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Speaker 1: York lineup right now. If you're the Dodgers this weekend

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Speaker 1: going to the Yankee stadium, you know you've got vaulting

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Speaker 1: leading off. You mentioned he's he's much tougher out puts

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Speaker 1: the ball in play. He also runs very well, so

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Speaker 1: you want to try to keep him off the bases. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: when you have big sluggers, you want to try to

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Speaker 1: face them with some room for error, which means no traffic.

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Speaker 1: But Volpi is changing that dynamic. You've got Soto you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: doesn't Chase, He's got tremendous power. He's gonna make you

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Speaker 1: throw a lot of pitches. And then you've got judge

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Speaker 1: who right now and he's always been patient and you

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Speaker 1: know that, Joe. Right now, Judge is just so on

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Speaker 1: time that when he clicks the baseball, it's going out.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's not hitting singles. Everything's an extra base

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Speaker 1: hit when he makes contact. Listen, there's a lot more

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Speaker 1: on behind those guys. But give me a sense, Joe,

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Speaker 1: when you prepare for New York, when they're when they're

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Speaker 1: clicking like this, what the message is to your pitchers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you really try to identify as well

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Speaker 3: as you can. There's going to be somebody that's among

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Speaker 3: those top three guys. Of course, of course you want

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Speaker 3: to keep Bope up the base off base.

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Speaker 2: That's number one thing. That'd be the number one fact

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 3: I know Sodo's great, Judge is great, whatever, but it's

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Speaker 3: to me, I think this guy's stirring the whole thing

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 2: It's the number one.

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Speaker 3: You want to keep both you off base. I don't

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Speaker 3: know what that means in regards. You got to challenge him,

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Speaker 3: as you an early swinger, where are the weaknesses with him?

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Speaker 3: But number one, I would preach about keeping that young

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Speaker 3: man off base, and then the next two guys. Man,

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Speaker 3: you know, you just got to you got to try

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Speaker 3: to get him out within the zone. And if you're

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Speaker 3: not able to do that, I mean, it might be

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Speaker 3: wise just to move to the next guy. Don't give

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Speaker 3: in in a bad count, you just don't give in.

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Speaker 3: You keep trying to make your good pitch. Of course,

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Speaker 3: if there there's people on base, there's a lot of traffic,

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Speaker 3: it could change your thought process because you got to

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Speaker 3: get somebody out. But you got to get guys like

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Speaker 3: this out within the strike zone. You got to get

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Speaker 3: ahead in account as often as possible, and you got

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Speaker 3: to take him out of the of the bat otherwise

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Speaker 3: they will absolutely alive. I think Stanton, you know what

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Speaker 3: he's doing right now, is a big part of that too.

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Speaker 3: And then Verdugos stepping up. I know Riz is down

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Speaker 3: a little bit right now, but overall, there's there's more

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Speaker 3: within this lineup, I think than the Dodger lineup. When

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Speaker 3: you look into the latter part of the Dodge lineup,

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Speaker 3: they've had a lot of struggles with I don't know,

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Speaker 3: from five on down, six on down, there's not a

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Speaker 3: whole lot of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Going on there.

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Speaker 3: So even with the Yankees, they have this greater ability

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Speaker 3: up and down through nine to make you think a

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Speaker 3: little bit so fullpait strike one, try to keep them

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Speaker 3: off base as much as you possibly can. The other guys,

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Speaker 3: you know, you got to get them out in the

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Speaker 3: strike zone and then he's keep making your pitch. But

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Speaker 3: sometimes a walk isn't so bad after you get past

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Speaker 3: those three guys. I know the other guys below, I've

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Speaker 3: been playing pretty well, but I would still rather take

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Speaker 3: my chances there.

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Speaker 2: So that's it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's maybe not be very clear, but going

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Speaker 3: into it, this is the kind of conversations you would

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Speaker 3: have and you would reiterate it during the course of

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Speaker 3: the game from your like a Mike Borsello to your catcher,

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Speaker 3: and when you have the conversations in between innings is different.

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Speaker 3: People are coming up to hit us to remind him

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Speaker 3: about these little things. But for me, keep Folpi off

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Speaker 3: base would be the number one thing I'd want to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing, and I agree with you, Joe, I

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Speaker 1: really do, because Volpi is a guy and again a

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Speaker 1: difference maker in that team. Last year hit two oh

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Speaker 1: three and had a two to eighty three on base percentage.

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Speaker 1: He was not a tough out last year and now

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Speaker 1: here he is and you and I are both talking

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Speaker 1: about Anthony Volpi as the key to attacking the Yankees' lineup.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's true because I agree a walk

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Speaker 1: is not a bad play when it comes to Soto

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Speaker 1: and Judge, but it's it's not a really good play

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Speaker 1: if Volpi's already on base, and then you're inviting a

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Speaker 1: real big, crooked number, which is what the Yankees are

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Speaker 1: doing these days. We will take a quick break here,

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Speaker 1: and I'm really interested to get Joe's take on when

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Speaker 1: a major leaguer loses his job, completely loses his job

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Speaker 1: because of something he did on the field. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that next on the Book of Joe. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the Book of Joe and Joe. We didn't talk

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Speaker 1: last week about Jorge Lopez of the New York Mets.

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Speaker 1: He had a frustrating moment on the field arguing a

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Speaker 1: called or not called check swing with umpire Ramon de

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Speaker 1: Jesus the third base. You know, it's been a rough

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Speaker 1: year for him. He lost as cool, he popped off,

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Speaker 1: got ejected, and on his way off, you know, untucked

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Speaker 1: his shirt and then flipped his glove over the netting

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Speaker 1: and into the stands and after that, we all know

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Speaker 1: what happened. He was not apologetic or it did not

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Speaker 1: regret what he did. In interviews not only with the

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Speaker 1: media after the game, but with his manager Carlos Mendoza

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Speaker 1: and with President of Baseball Operations David Stearns, the Mets

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Speaker 1: defatum right there, basically said you're gone. And Joe. I

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Speaker 1: think he could have survived the reactionary moment on the

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Speaker 1: field there, but he could not survive his attitude after

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Speaker 1: the game. And remember he's out of the game, the

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Speaker 1: game goes on. You know, there's actually a team meeting

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Speaker 1: in the clubhouse, not essentially about that, but the way

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Speaker 1: the Mets have been struggling. So there was sort of

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Speaker 1: a cooling down period. But he did not cool down

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Speaker 1: and was not regretful about what he did, and that's

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Speaker 1: why the Mets dfade him. I thought it was severe.

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Speaker 1: I really did, Joe. I mean, we found out if

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Speaker 1: you hadn't known before. And this has been true for

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Speaker 1: the last couple of years. He has some issues at home.

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Speaker 1: He has a son that's fighting in illness. He did

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Speaker 1: go on the il last year within Minnesota to try

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Speaker 1: to get right in terms of some mental health issues

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Speaker 1: that he was dealing with, So you know, he's a

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Speaker 1: human being, he's like anybody else, and there's no doubt

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Speaker 1: that some of those things came into play, and he

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Speaker 1: alluded to that later on in one of his social

433
00:20:51,038 --> 00:20:53,518
Speaker 1: media posts. But I'm interested in your take. I mean,

434
00:20:53,718 --> 00:20:56,278
Speaker 1: you got a player who you know, You've seen guys

435
00:20:56,278 --> 00:20:58,518
Speaker 1: frustrate on the field, they lash out. But then he

436
00:20:58,678 --> 00:21:01,518
Speaker 1: didn't walk it back and he didn't own his behavior

437
00:21:01,558 --> 00:21:04,678
Speaker 1: on the field, and now is is essentially out of

438
00:21:04,718 --> 00:21:05,158
Speaker 1: a job.

439
00:21:05,518 --> 00:21:07,078
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't let me know. It was a tough

440
00:21:07,078 --> 00:21:10,518
Speaker 3: one to watch. I watched the video. I commented about

441
00:21:10,558 --> 00:21:13,598
Speaker 3: it yesterday on the MLB Network. And first of all,

442
00:21:13,598 --> 00:21:15,758
Speaker 3: I don't know the kids, so that's always difficult. You know,

443
00:21:15,838 --> 00:21:17,598
Speaker 3: you hear all this stuff. I know we're hearing all

444
00:21:17,638 --> 00:21:20,878
Speaker 3: this stuff. It seems to be well documented. But then again,

445
00:21:20,998 --> 00:21:23,598
Speaker 3: I don't know the young man in that part makes

446
00:21:23,598 --> 00:21:26,038
Speaker 3: it difficult because you really need to know the person

447
00:21:26,038 --> 00:21:28,358
Speaker 3: you're dealing with, and I don't know the exact history.

448
00:21:28,358 --> 00:21:29,078
Speaker 2: You just describe that.

449
00:21:29,078 --> 00:21:31,838
Speaker 3: I didn't realize this mental illness component of it. I

450
00:21:31,838 --> 00:21:34,838
Speaker 3: didn't know about his son, all these different factors. Regardless

451
00:21:34,838 --> 00:21:37,998
Speaker 3: of all that, for me, number one. This is my opinion,

452
00:21:38,518 --> 00:21:42,198
Speaker 3: game over. He's in my office immediately, immediately, there's not

453
00:21:42,238 --> 00:21:44,118
Speaker 3: me talking to the media. That's not me talking to

454
00:21:44,118 --> 00:21:47,078
Speaker 3: anybody else's coaches, whatever. It's me talking to him and

455
00:21:47,198 --> 00:21:49,238
Speaker 3: really getting down to the crux of what just happened

456
00:21:49,278 --> 00:21:52,118
Speaker 3: out there, letting him know my feelings, and with that,

457
00:21:52,358 --> 00:21:55,518
Speaker 3: the conversation would be what's going to happen next? Obviously,

458
00:21:55,558 --> 00:21:57,998
Speaker 3: and when you do speak with the media, how is

459
00:21:58,038 --> 00:21:59,638
Speaker 3: this going to go. What are we going to talk about?

460
00:21:59,638 --> 00:22:01,478
Speaker 3: What are you going to say? He needed to be

461
00:22:01,518 --> 00:22:03,038
Speaker 3: coached a little bit right there. It was just a

462
00:22:03,118 --> 00:22:06,038
Speaker 3: very emotional moment. And if he's been through this before

463
00:22:06,038 --> 00:22:08,838
Speaker 3: with them, you know that. So if you let him

464
00:22:08,838 --> 00:22:11,558
Speaker 3: out there like he was, and I saw that interview,

465
00:22:12,238 --> 00:22:14,718
Speaker 3: he doesn't speak that great of English, I mean, and

466
00:22:14,758 --> 00:22:17,358
Speaker 3: then he gets emotional, you're going to speak even less well.

467
00:22:17,798 --> 00:22:20,398
Speaker 3: So that part to me, how it was interpreted, I

468
00:22:20,398 --> 00:22:22,918
Speaker 3: don't think he meant it that way. I really believe

469
00:22:22,998 --> 00:22:24,118
Speaker 3: he said he would have done it again.

470
00:22:24,158 --> 00:22:25,958
Speaker 2: I think he would have argued with the umpire again.

471
00:22:26,038 --> 00:22:26,878
Speaker 2: This is my opinion.

472
00:22:27,198 --> 00:22:28,998
Speaker 3: I don't think he would throw his glove again. I

473
00:22:28,998 --> 00:22:33,038
Speaker 3: don't think he'd rip his uniform off again, So there's

474
00:22:33,118 --> 00:22:35,878
Speaker 3: a lot left to be translated here. I would like

475
00:22:35,958 --> 00:22:38,918
Speaker 3: to if he's going to do another interviewer, did another interviewer?

476
00:22:38,918 --> 00:22:41,078
Speaker 3: Did that interview be front of the locker room? Yeah,

477
00:22:41,118 --> 00:22:42,798
Speaker 3: he should have asked for somebody to be there with

478
00:22:42,878 --> 00:22:45,758
Speaker 3: him that spoke English and could interpret for him, because

479
00:22:45,798 --> 00:22:49,398
Speaker 3: that that was emotional second language. Not very good at

480
00:22:49,398 --> 00:22:51,758
Speaker 3: it from what I saw. And again, if all this

481
00:22:51,758 --> 00:22:55,198
Speaker 3: stuff is in the background, it shoul it should have

482
00:22:55,238 --> 00:22:56,718
Speaker 3: been monitored more closely.

483
00:22:56,398 --> 00:22:58,278
Speaker 2: By the group, by the team, I think.

484
00:22:58,358 --> 00:23:01,598
Speaker 3: So in situations like that, my first response as a managers,

485
00:23:01,638 --> 00:23:03,438
Speaker 3: I want him in my office. I want to go

486
00:23:03,478 --> 00:23:06,478
Speaker 3: over this right now, what happened out there, Let's talk

487
00:23:06,518 --> 00:23:09,118
Speaker 3: about this and figure it out from there. And then

488
00:23:09,278 --> 00:23:11,718
Speaker 3: I don't know, if there's like a track record of

489
00:23:12,038 --> 00:23:15,598
Speaker 3: really negative behavior that's been going on that you've spoken

490
00:23:15,598 --> 00:23:17,918
Speaker 3: to him about before, I can understand getting rid of him,

491
00:23:17,918 --> 00:23:19,798
Speaker 3: I get it. But if there had not been, and

492
00:23:19,798 --> 00:23:21,878
Speaker 3: this is just reaction, and you're doing this in order

493
00:23:21,918 --> 00:23:24,198
Speaker 3: to set a tone for the rest of the group

494
00:23:24,198 --> 00:23:26,238
Speaker 3: based on the fact that the team's not playing well,

495
00:23:26,558 --> 00:23:29,678
Speaker 3: that's something else completely too. So when I heard all this,

496
00:23:29,678 --> 00:23:31,798
Speaker 3: this is how my mind works. This is all the

497
00:23:31,838 --> 00:23:34,838
Speaker 3: stuff that I had thought about. But I'll tell you honestly,

498
00:23:34,878 --> 00:23:38,438
Speaker 3: quite frankly, we would I would always get the guy

499
00:23:38,558 --> 00:23:41,438
Speaker 3: in my room and I have to talk before anybody,

500
00:23:41,438 --> 00:23:44,398
Speaker 3: including myself, would talk publicly about it because I didn't

501
00:23:44,398 --> 00:23:46,798
Speaker 3: know exactly what was going on before I made any

502
00:23:46,878 --> 00:23:47,558
Speaker 3: kind of statement.

503
00:23:48,038 --> 00:23:50,838
Speaker 1: That's a really, really fascinating take Joe and what I

504
00:23:50,878 --> 00:23:53,358
Speaker 1: had not heard before. Now we don't know what the

505
00:23:53,398 --> 00:23:57,798
Speaker 1: conversation was like with Carlos Mendoza and David Stearns, but

506
00:23:57,878 --> 00:24:01,558
Speaker 1: I like the idea essentially coaching up the player, that

507
00:24:02,118 --> 00:24:07,158
Speaker 1: you handle that in private, prepare him for what's coming now.

508
00:24:07,238 --> 00:24:11,158
Speaker 1: Hory Lopez has basically throughout his career, had chosen to

509
00:24:11,198 --> 00:24:13,598
Speaker 1: do his postgame interviews in English. You know, it's always

510
00:24:13,598 --> 00:24:18,478
Speaker 1: a player's prerogative. We respect whatever decision they make. Teams

511
00:24:18,518 --> 00:24:21,678
Speaker 1: do have interpreters available. It's part of the basic agreement.

512
00:24:21,718 --> 00:24:24,758
Speaker 1: They must be available, so if the player wants the interpreter,

513
00:24:25,398 --> 00:24:28,638
Speaker 1: there always is one that he can use to his avail.

514
00:24:28,878 --> 00:24:32,358
Speaker 1: Lopez has just has not, so you know that player decision.

515
00:24:32,398 --> 00:24:35,478
Speaker 1: I don't think that him not speaking with an interpreter

516
00:24:35,638 --> 00:24:37,718
Speaker 1: through an interpreter to me, it's not on the club.

517
00:24:37,878 --> 00:24:40,598
Speaker 1: It's his choice, and good on him. That's something. As

518
00:24:40,638 --> 00:24:42,918
Speaker 1: I said, it's not new for him. But the more

519
00:24:42,958 --> 00:24:46,598
Speaker 1: important point you make there, Joe is getting ahead of it,

520
00:24:47,238 --> 00:24:49,718
Speaker 1: and it looked like he was to borrow your phrase

521
00:24:49,958 --> 00:24:53,078
Speaker 1: kind of coached afterward, because the next day he came

522
00:24:53,118 --> 00:24:55,758
Speaker 1: out with a statement that was just beautiful and that

523
00:24:55,758 --> 00:24:59,918
Speaker 1: would have ended everything if that was released postgame or

524
00:24:59,958 --> 00:25:03,038
Speaker 1: he read those words postgame in which he did take

525
00:25:03,078 --> 00:25:06,638
Speaker 1: accountability and basically said, Hey, I need some time here

526
00:25:06,718 --> 00:25:09,678
Speaker 1: to get my professional and personal life in order so

527
00:25:09,718 --> 00:25:11,398
Speaker 1: I can get back there on the mound and continue

528
00:25:11,398 --> 00:25:13,398
Speaker 1: to be a contributor of Major League Baseball. All the

529
00:25:13,478 --> 00:25:16,438
Speaker 1: right things that were said at that point, you know,

530
00:25:16,518 --> 00:25:19,758
Speaker 1: a little late in terms of waiting the firestorm and

531
00:25:19,798 --> 00:25:23,158
Speaker 1: his release that happened. So it's an interesting point that

532
00:25:23,198 --> 00:25:26,038
Speaker 1: you can sit down with a guy and anticipate what's

533
00:25:26,078 --> 00:25:28,798
Speaker 1: coming next, especially in New York with the level of

534
00:25:28,878 --> 00:25:31,638
Speaker 1: media and the amount of media there, you know it's

535
00:25:31,678 --> 00:25:34,758
Speaker 1: going to be a big issue. Kind of headed off

536
00:25:34,798 --> 00:25:36,558
Speaker 1: before I got in front of the cameras. I guess

537
00:25:36,678 --> 00:25:37,758
Speaker 1: is what you're saying.

538
00:25:37,678 --> 00:25:40,398
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've done that everywhere I have been, and you know,

539
00:25:40,478 --> 00:25:43,078
Speaker 3: when that situation can arise, and even for me, I'll

540
00:25:43,118 --> 00:25:46,198
Speaker 3: come off the field hot sometimes. And we've talked about

541
00:25:46,238 --> 00:25:48,878
Speaker 3: this before, and you know, Rick Vaughan was my guy

542
00:25:48,918 --> 00:25:52,078
Speaker 3: down in immedia, guy down in Tampa Bay. And r

543
00:25:52,158 --> 00:25:54,238
Speaker 3: V would come in because he knew, he knew I

544
00:25:54,318 --> 00:25:55,918
Speaker 3: wasn't going to settle down. He knew a pretty good

545
00:25:55,958 --> 00:25:57,198
Speaker 3: chance of saying something stupid.

546
00:25:57,318 --> 00:25:57,838
Speaker 2: He knew that.

547
00:25:58,398 --> 00:26:00,358
Speaker 3: So we'd come in there and he'd give me that

548
00:26:00,638 --> 00:26:03,638
Speaker 3: arm folded arm thing with his notebook between his arms,

549
00:26:03,638 --> 00:26:08,438
Speaker 3: and just give me that stare. And finally I would understand, Okay, okay,

550
00:26:08,958 --> 00:26:11,358
Speaker 3: I gotta I gotta walk this back a little bit, right,

551
00:26:11,398 --> 00:26:13,238
Speaker 3: And he said yeah. And then I said, but I

552
00:26:13,278 --> 00:26:14,918
Speaker 3: still got to be Jack Ryan Er. I still got

553
00:26:14,918 --> 00:26:17,038
Speaker 3: to tell them what I think, right, Yeah, of course

554
00:26:17,038 --> 00:26:19,638
Speaker 3: you do. Okay, we go, we go through the whole

555
00:26:19,638 --> 00:26:22,918
Speaker 3: situation that way. But when I got emotional, and believe me,

556
00:26:22,958 --> 00:26:26,198
Speaker 3: it happened often. It didn't happen once. What happened often,

557
00:26:26,798 --> 00:26:28,558
Speaker 3: and there's a very good chance you're going to say

558
00:26:28,598 --> 00:26:32,078
Speaker 3: something you would regret under those circumstances. So at RV,

559
00:26:32,118 --> 00:26:35,318
Speaker 3: I had Peter Chase in Chicago. Peter was outstanding also,

560
00:26:36,078 --> 00:26:39,598
Speaker 3: and Adam Chatskow and Anaheim too. Adam was wonderful. So

561
00:26:39,638 --> 00:26:44,598
Speaker 3: all these guys are a wonderful resource in these emotional moments,

562
00:26:45,038 --> 00:26:48,518
Speaker 3: because you know what it's like. Even your house come in,

563
00:26:48,998 --> 00:26:51,398
Speaker 3: whatever bothered you. They might have a bad cold. You

564
00:26:51,518 --> 00:26:53,038
Speaker 3: just things aren't processing well.

565
00:26:53,518 --> 00:26:55,278
Speaker 2: Uh, it's the.

566
00:26:54,718 --> 00:26:57,398
Speaker 3: Tidbit of bad news. Like you're talking about a guy

567
00:26:57,438 --> 00:26:59,998
Speaker 3: with the sun. That's that's not so well. I don't

568
00:26:59,998 --> 00:27:02,998
Speaker 3: even know exactly what the problem is, but that's got

569
00:27:02,998 --> 00:27:07,158
Speaker 3: to be lingering constantly. So emotional moments get in front

570
00:27:07,278 --> 00:27:10,478
Speaker 3: of it, and you need somebody a calmer head than

571
00:27:10,478 --> 00:27:13,598
Speaker 3: your own in order to bring you back down. Start

572
00:27:13,638 --> 00:27:15,998
Speaker 3: breathing a little bit. Let's get a little rational about this.

573
00:27:16,718 --> 00:27:18,918
Speaker 3: And yes, still going to tell you the truth. I'm

574
00:27:18,918 --> 00:27:21,158
Speaker 3: still gonna mention the truth, whatever that might be, but

575
00:27:21,678 --> 00:27:24,598
Speaker 3: in a more adjustable way than going out there and

576
00:27:24,638 --> 00:27:27,358
Speaker 3: really being crude and rude about the whole thing, and

577
00:27:27,358 --> 00:27:30,478
Speaker 3: then again again saying something, saying something then that if

578
00:27:30,518 --> 00:27:32,318
Speaker 3: he had a night sleep on it, he would never

579
00:27:32,358 --> 00:27:33,358
Speaker 3: have said the next morning.

580
00:27:33,758 --> 00:27:35,718
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do think he's going to pitch again

581
00:27:35,838 --> 00:27:38,758
Speaker 1: Joey's his stuff is still really good. Maybe he goes

582
00:27:38,798 --> 00:27:41,558
Speaker 1: back to Baltimore. He did have a lot of success

583
00:27:41,598 --> 00:27:45,878
Speaker 1: before they traded him to Minnesota. But I think, obviously,

584
00:27:45,918 --> 00:27:49,518
Speaker 1: as he pointed out himself, get things settled and straightened

585
00:27:49,558 --> 00:27:53,678
Speaker 1: in his life, and there's clearly more baseball left in him.

586
00:27:53,678 --> 00:27:56,678
Speaker 1: It's just unusual for me, Joe, to see a guy

587
00:27:56,758 --> 00:27:59,598
Speaker 1: lose his job over something like that. Listen. I once

588
00:27:59,678 --> 00:28:02,918
Speaker 1: saw Dave Righetti on the mound take the baseball and

589
00:28:02,998 --> 00:28:06,078
Speaker 1: Exhibition State in Toronto, after giving up a home run,

590
00:28:06,158 --> 00:28:08,558
Speaker 1: take the new ball and heave it over the right

591
00:28:08,638 --> 00:28:12,358
Speaker 1: field fence. We saw Trevor Bauer take a baseball throw

592
00:28:12,358 --> 00:28:14,998
Speaker 1: it into the fountains in center field in Kansas City.

593
00:28:15,318 --> 00:28:17,398
Speaker 1: I saw Rob Dibble losing a game to the New

594
00:28:17,478 --> 00:28:21,558
Speaker 1: York Mets, literally rip the jersey off himself and chuck

595
00:28:21,598 --> 00:28:25,078
Speaker 1: it in the stands. I saw Bobby Oheita and Turn

596
00:28:25,158 --> 00:28:28,078
Speaker 1: Wendel for the New York Mets flip their gloves into

597
00:28:28,118 --> 00:28:31,358
Speaker 1: the stands. Nothing happened in terms of a guy losing

598
00:28:31,398 --> 00:28:34,678
Speaker 1: his job, And again, I understand the situations after the

599
00:28:34,838 --> 00:28:38,478
Speaker 1: incident are different here in this case, but it's disappointing

600
00:28:38,558 --> 00:28:40,918
Speaker 1: to me that it rose to that level where a

601
00:28:40,958 --> 00:28:43,958
Speaker 1: guy lost a job. I'm not sure if you've seen

602
00:28:43,998 --> 00:28:45,358
Speaker 1: anything like that, Joe.

603
00:28:46,038 --> 00:28:48,038
Speaker 3: I know that I was in a situation with Jose

604
00:28:48,158 --> 00:28:51,278
Speaker 3: gee and years ago with the Angels, and I was

605
00:28:51,318 --> 00:28:55,958
Speaker 3: almost like Jose's personal valet on a nightly basis. But

606
00:28:56,438 --> 00:28:58,958
Speaker 3: it was a situation in a game when he had

607
00:28:58,998 --> 00:29:02,518
Speaker 3: been I guess, right, what is warned about situations and

608
00:29:02,558 --> 00:29:05,438
Speaker 3: then still when had and he fired a helmet once

609
00:29:05,518 --> 00:29:07,998
Speaker 3: and it was really, it was really, really not good.

610
00:29:08,518 --> 00:29:12,638
Speaker 3: And so afterwards we did we let him go and

611
00:29:12,678 --> 00:29:14,398
Speaker 3: we suspended him, I think for a week at the

612
00:29:14,478 --> 00:29:18,238
Speaker 3: end of the season, really really late in the year

613
00:29:18,238 --> 00:29:21,358
Speaker 3: we suspended and I'm pretty certain he never came back

614
00:29:21,398 --> 00:29:24,478
Speaker 3: after that. Jose was another guy that was wonderful guy.

615
00:29:24,518 --> 00:29:26,278
Speaker 3: I mean when he was calm and everything was groovy

616
00:29:26,318 --> 00:29:29,198
Speaker 3: and stuff. Loved him, very entertaining. I said him as

617
00:29:29,198 --> 00:29:30,878
Speaker 3: ground balls of it, the guy the best arm I've

618
00:29:30,878 --> 00:29:33,638
Speaker 3: ever seen in my life, best arm, and he throw

619
00:29:33,718 --> 00:29:35,838
Speaker 3: the ball back in from third bases and outfielder. We

620
00:29:35,838 --> 00:29:38,438
Speaker 3: had a really good relationship, but there was certain things

621
00:29:38,438 --> 00:29:40,958
Speaker 3: that happened that year that we had addressed and Eventually

622
00:29:40,958 --> 00:29:42,998
Speaker 3: it led to this particular moment when we just had

623
00:29:42,998 --> 00:29:45,158
Speaker 3: no other options, so we let him go, and it

624
00:29:45,198 --> 00:29:48,038
Speaker 3: was end of the season and we did make the playoffs,

625
00:29:48,078 --> 00:29:50,238
Speaker 3: I think within that next week. So I've seen it

626
00:29:50,278 --> 00:29:52,518
Speaker 3: in a sense, And when this happened, I thought about

627
00:29:52,518 --> 00:29:55,998
Speaker 3: that immediately. But I was privy to all the information,

628
00:29:56,278 --> 00:29:57,998
Speaker 3: all the stuff that had been going on back then

629
00:29:57,998 --> 00:30:00,958
Speaker 3: with Jose and actually I was there. I'd go out

630
00:30:00,958 --> 00:30:02,158
Speaker 3: with the guy at night, we used to hang out

631
00:30:02,198 --> 00:30:04,438
Speaker 3: a little bit, so I was very much aware of

632
00:30:04,518 --> 00:30:07,638
Speaker 3: all that, and it really I liked them. I liked

633
00:30:07,718 --> 00:30:09,878
Speaker 3: them a lot, and I felt this felt he felt

634
00:30:09,918 --> 00:30:12,758
Speaker 3: the same way about me. But when you've gone through

635
00:30:12,798 --> 00:30:15,878
Speaker 3: these moments and you again, for lack of a better term,

636
00:30:16,038 --> 00:30:19,878
Speaker 3: warned or teld people listen, you can't do that here,

637
00:30:20,198 --> 00:30:22,198
Speaker 3: and they continue to do that here, then you have

638
00:30:22,238 --> 00:30:25,038
Speaker 3: no choice. So again, I don't know all of this,

639
00:30:25,478 --> 00:30:27,918
Speaker 3: but I do know. I just think I would have

640
00:30:28,358 --> 00:30:30,558
Speaker 3: liked to have seen him just one on one with

641
00:30:30,678 --> 00:30:34,038
Speaker 3: the manager and probably a coach in the office, although

642
00:30:34,038 --> 00:30:37,638
Speaker 3: Mendoza does speak Spanish obviously well, but it's always good

643
00:30:37,678 --> 00:30:39,718
Speaker 3: to have one other guy in the office to validate everything.

644
00:30:39,758 --> 00:30:40,438
Speaker 2: That's been said.

645
00:30:41,038 --> 00:30:43,638
Speaker 3: It's not not a situation you worried about getting beaten up,

646
00:30:43,758 --> 00:30:45,958
Speaker 3: just you just want one other set of ears in

647
00:30:45,998 --> 00:30:48,118
Speaker 3: there to be able to hear and listen to what

648
00:30:48,158 --> 00:30:51,038
Speaker 3: had been going on, so that everything could be corroborated.

649
00:30:51,358 --> 00:30:52,878
Speaker 3: And at the end of the day, it was a

650
00:30:52,918 --> 00:30:53,998
Speaker 3: fair and honest conversation.

651
00:30:54,518 --> 00:30:59,078
Speaker 1: I actually had forgotten about the jose Gian episode. And yeah,

652
00:30:59,118 --> 00:31:01,358
Speaker 1: he as you know, he was a real good hitter

653
00:31:01,398 --> 00:31:03,198
Speaker 1: for your team. He was driving in runs for you

654
00:31:03,318 --> 00:31:06,278
Speaker 1: teams going to the postseason and when that happened that

655
00:31:06,318 --> 00:31:08,318
Speaker 1: you're sitting down this guy and you're right, he did

656
00:31:08,358 --> 00:31:11,198
Speaker 1: not come back for the postseason. It did make me

657
00:31:11,278 --> 00:31:14,158
Speaker 1: think that it wasn't just a one off, that there

658
00:31:14,238 --> 00:31:17,758
Speaker 1: must have been something preceding that to have such a

659
00:31:17,798 --> 00:31:21,598
Speaker 1: harsh penalty. But Joe, I got to admit what I

660
00:31:21,678 --> 00:31:24,678
Speaker 1: first thought about with a guy losing his job, and

661
00:31:24,718 --> 00:31:28,878
Speaker 1: it's in the book of Joe Is Jay Lewis, you

662
00:31:29,118 --> 00:31:33,718
Speaker 1: have to tell that story. We talk about someone losing

663
00:31:33,798 --> 00:31:37,398
Speaker 1: their job over something in this case done. I don't

664
00:31:37,398 --> 00:31:40,318
Speaker 1: know if it was done before, but done once. You

665
00:31:40,438 --> 00:31:41,878
Speaker 1: have to tell a story. It's a great one.

666
00:31:42,158 --> 00:31:44,558
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is not one of my better moments as

667
00:31:44,558 --> 00:31:48,358
Speaker 3: a minor league manager Puri, Illinois, and a young outfielder

668
00:31:48,358 --> 00:31:50,438
Speaker 3: by name of Jay Lewis out of Oklahoma was on

669
00:31:50,518 --> 00:31:54,318
Speaker 3: the team. Nice player, JJS pop, nice player, creak, great guy.

670
00:31:54,798 --> 00:31:57,078
Speaker 2: Anyway, I had my pitchy coach at that.

671
00:31:57,038 --> 00:32:00,998
Speaker 3: Time, really O Monteagudo, since passed away in a traffic accident.

672
00:32:01,078 --> 00:32:03,878
Speaker 3: But MONI had a very good ear to the ground,

673
00:32:04,158 --> 00:32:06,878
Speaker 3: and he let me know that Van Halen was coming

674
00:32:06,878 --> 00:32:10,518
Speaker 3: to town and that they're talking it up and we're

675
00:32:10,638 --> 00:32:13,678
Speaker 3: on the street. Was that Jay was going to call

676
00:32:13,798 --> 00:32:16,438
Speaker 3: in sick on that particular day and he's going to

677
00:32:16,438 --> 00:32:19,838
Speaker 3: attend the concert. So I had that in advance, and

678
00:32:19,878 --> 00:32:21,918
Speaker 3: of course here comes a day, and of course here

679
00:32:21,958 --> 00:32:25,758
Speaker 3: it happens, and Jay's not not coming. He's he calls

680
00:32:25,798 --> 00:32:29,558
Speaker 3: in Richard's Aleski was my trainer, and I calls it

681
00:32:29,678 --> 00:32:33,438
Speaker 3: sick and that he can't make it tonight because he's ill.

682
00:32:34,078 --> 00:32:35,678
Speaker 3: And so okay, here we go ahead to put the

683
00:32:35,678 --> 00:32:37,998
Speaker 3: wheels in motion at that point. Okay, Jay, stay home,

684
00:32:38,438 --> 00:32:40,118
Speaker 3: don't worry about it, make sure you get better, all

685
00:32:40,118 --> 00:32:42,918
Speaker 3: that kind of good stuff. So I think I don't know.

686
00:32:42,958 --> 00:32:44,998
Speaker 3: Game time might have been what seven o'clock whatever. They

687
00:32:45,078 --> 00:32:48,918
Speaker 3: just say seven o'clock. And I said, Richard, call him

688
00:32:48,918 --> 00:32:53,278
Speaker 3: at seven. Call at seven o'clock and make sure Seebe's there,

689
00:32:53,278 --> 00:32:56,198
Speaker 3: Seebe's all that kind of stuff. And he calls him

690
00:32:56,198 --> 00:32:58,038
Speaker 3: and there's no answer. And of course there's no answer.

691
00:32:58,078 --> 00:33:00,718
Speaker 3: He's at the concert. We didn't have cell phones back then.

692
00:33:00,758 --> 00:33:03,318
Speaker 3: That would have helped him a lot. So I said, okay,

693
00:33:03,398 --> 00:33:04,838
Speaker 3: let's just really make sure. He could have been sick.

694
00:33:04,878 --> 00:33:07,318
Speaker 3: He could have said he was out getting medicine whatever.

695
00:33:07,358 --> 00:33:08,718
Speaker 3: So I said, go over to his house, go to

696
00:33:08,758 --> 00:33:11,758
Speaker 3: his apartment whatever that was, and make sure that he's

697
00:33:11,758 --> 00:33:12,278
Speaker 3: not there.

698
00:33:12,398 --> 00:33:15,398
Speaker 2: So he goes and knocks on the door real loudly. Whatever.

699
00:33:16,078 --> 00:33:17,438
Speaker 2: No answer comes back.

700
00:33:17,518 --> 00:33:21,078
Speaker 3: Richard and his little Boston accent tells me Jay's not there.

701
00:33:21,158 --> 00:33:24,198
Speaker 3: So I said, okay, good, we expected all that. So

702
00:33:24,598 --> 00:33:27,878
Speaker 3: here comes the next day ball park. Jay walks in

703
00:33:27,918 --> 00:33:30,358
Speaker 3: and he rings in my office, sent him down and said, hey,

704
00:33:30,398 --> 00:33:32,158
Speaker 3: how you feeling oh much better today?

705
00:33:32,158 --> 00:33:33,638
Speaker 2: I'm good and I'm good today. I'm ready to go.

706
00:33:34,198 --> 00:33:37,878
Speaker 3: He says, come on, man, don't insult my intelligence. You

707
00:33:37,918 --> 00:33:40,278
Speaker 3: weren't sick yesterday went to the van. No, I didn't.

708
00:33:40,998 --> 00:33:42,918
Speaker 3: I didn't go to the Van Halen concert. I was ill, Yes,

709
00:33:42,998 --> 00:33:45,478
Speaker 3: I said, I sent Richard. We called you said, Richard

710
00:33:45,518 --> 00:33:47,758
Speaker 3: to your apartment. You weren't there. Come on, man, don't

711
00:33:47,998 --> 00:33:49,598
Speaker 3: And I got to use the phrase, I said, don't

712
00:33:49,598 --> 00:33:52,958
Speaker 3: insult my intelligence. Come on, Jay, just tell me, just

713
00:33:52,998 --> 00:33:56,638
Speaker 3: tell me. How was the concert? And he said, the

714
00:33:56,758 --> 00:33:57,878
Speaker 3: best one I've ever been.

715
00:33:58,318 --> 00:33:59,078
Speaker 1: I love it.

716
00:33:59,838 --> 00:34:02,038
Speaker 3: And I see that's where I should have I should

717
00:34:02,038 --> 00:34:03,678
Speaker 3: have done the right thing, which would have been fine.

718
00:34:03,918 --> 00:34:07,078
Speaker 2: Twenty five bucks. Giggled a little bit. He said, don't

719
00:34:07,118 --> 00:34:08,118
Speaker 2: ever do that again.

720
00:34:08,558 --> 00:34:10,758
Speaker 3: But I'm just a twenty seven year old manager, and

721
00:34:10,798 --> 00:34:13,638
Speaker 3: I call in, I'm all in sense, like an idiot,

722
00:34:13,718 --> 00:34:16,518
Speaker 3: and ends up getting released because of that, which I

723
00:34:16,518 --> 00:34:19,638
Speaker 3: think is totally wrong. And I'd love to tell Jayda.

724
00:34:19,678 --> 00:34:21,158
Speaker 3: We've talked about that in the book. I'd love to

725
00:34:21,278 --> 00:34:23,878
Speaker 3: just see Jy and Tom. I was I screwed up.

726
00:34:24,118 --> 00:34:24,678
Speaker 2: I was wrong.

727
00:34:24,798 --> 00:34:27,758
Speaker 3: Shouldn't have happened that way. My fault, but that's how

728
00:34:27,798 --> 00:34:30,318
Speaker 3: it came down. And because he told me the truth,

729
00:34:30,838 --> 00:34:32,758
Speaker 3: which is another thing with your kids. If your kids

730
00:34:32,758 --> 00:34:34,438
Speaker 3: tell you the truth, you can't get angry like you

731
00:34:34,518 --> 00:34:36,958
Speaker 3: just got accepted in some kind of a punishment.

732
00:34:36,998 --> 00:34:37,678
Speaker 2: But not that.

733
00:34:38,238 --> 00:34:40,798
Speaker 3: So that's one of my most unproud moments as a

734
00:34:40,838 --> 00:34:43,558
Speaker 3: minor league manager. It was the releasing of Jay Lewis

735
00:34:43,558 --> 00:34:47,878
Speaker 3: for attending a Van Halen concert, the best concert he

736
00:34:47,958 --> 00:34:50,958
Speaker 3: ever attended to miss a minor league baseball game.

737
00:34:51,358 --> 00:34:55,078
Speaker 1: I love that story. And if you're out there, Jay Lewis,

738
00:34:55,198 --> 00:34:58,158
Speaker 1: or you're out there and you know Jay Lewis, get

739
00:34:58,158 --> 00:35:00,958
Speaker 1: in touch with us. You know, we were lucky enough

740
00:35:00,998 --> 00:35:03,238
Speaker 1: to track down Kenny Grant, that's right, and had him

741
00:35:03,278 --> 00:35:05,598
Speaker 1: as a guest show. Kenny Grant was a young player

742
00:35:05,638 --> 00:35:08,398
Speaker 1: who Joe one of your early releases, get I guess

743
00:35:08,438 --> 00:35:10,438
Speaker 1: where you had to tell a player that's the end

744
00:35:10,478 --> 00:35:12,358
Speaker 1: of the line. You know, we have to release you.

745
00:35:12,438 --> 00:35:16,238
Speaker 1: And all these years later we were able to track

746
00:35:16,318 --> 00:35:19,118
Speaker 1: Kenny down and get his version and what it meant

747
00:35:19,158 --> 00:35:22,958
Speaker 1: to him. So, Jay Lewis, if you're out there, track

748
00:35:23,038 --> 00:35:24,798
Speaker 1: us down, love to have you on the show. Or

749
00:35:24,838 --> 00:35:27,038
Speaker 1: if you know where Jay is. I wonder what he's

750
00:35:27,078 --> 00:35:28,678
Speaker 1: up to these days.

751
00:35:28,518 --> 00:35:31,718
Speaker 3: Jay Bird. I don't know Jay Bird. I Jay Bird

752
00:35:31,718 --> 00:35:33,838
Speaker 3: could talk a little bit. I'm sure he's doing something.

753
00:35:33,878 --> 00:35:34,158
Speaker 2: Well.

754
00:35:34,798 --> 00:35:38,478
Speaker 3: Fun guy, just a fun guy, free spirited guy from Oklahoma. Jay,

755
00:35:38,518 --> 00:35:41,038
Speaker 3: if you're listening to anybody like you said, I'm sorry,

756
00:35:41,238 --> 00:35:44,198
Speaker 3: give me an opportunity to say it. If it not

757
00:35:44,278 --> 00:35:47,078
Speaker 3: in person, at least be a conversation like this.

758
00:35:47,838 --> 00:35:50,758
Speaker 1: Hopefully we hear from Jay and we will definitely get

759
00:35:50,838 --> 00:35:54,478
Speaker 1: him on. We're going to take a quick break, and

760
00:35:54,638 --> 00:35:57,038
Speaker 1: this happens a lot. It seems like these days the

761
00:35:57,158 --> 00:36:00,318
Speaker 1: art of bunting and where has it gone? And should

762
00:36:00,398 --> 00:36:04,158
Speaker 1: we bring it back? I'll ask Joe Madden about then

763
00:36:04,678 --> 00:36:20,398
Speaker 1: as a strategic play in today's game. Right after this, well, Joe,

764
00:36:20,438 --> 00:36:24,918
Speaker 1: I mentioned the bunt and before we get to that,

765
00:36:25,198 --> 00:36:27,358
Speaker 1: I just have to thank a lot of people at

766
00:36:27,438 --> 00:36:31,198
Speaker 1: Penn State. Over the weekend, I was fortunate enough to

767
00:36:31,318 --> 00:36:36,078
Speaker 1: receive the Distinguished Alumnus Award from Penn State University. And

768
00:36:36,118 --> 00:36:39,078
Speaker 1: it's a really, really big deal, especially when you think

769
00:36:39,118 --> 00:36:41,838
Speaker 1: about a school like Penn State. There are seven hundred

770
00:36:41,878 --> 00:36:46,398
Speaker 1: and seventy five thousand living alumni and they give out

771
00:36:46,718 --> 00:36:51,078
Speaker 1: a handful of these awards. It was a spectacular ceremony,

772
00:36:51,158 --> 00:36:54,278
Speaker 1: black tie affair. I was humbled when I got the

773
00:36:54,278 --> 00:36:56,798
Speaker 1: call from the president of the school about the award,

774
00:36:57,078 --> 00:37:00,398
Speaker 1: and even more so being in that room and just

775
00:37:01,638 --> 00:37:05,678
Speaker 1: hearing all the other the winners and the administrators, and

776
00:37:05,718 --> 00:37:08,238
Speaker 1: it got me thinking, Joe, and I like your take

777
00:37:08,278 --> 00:37:11,078
Speaker 1: on this that you know, the people that mold us

778
00:37:11,238 --> 00:37:15,518
Speaker 1: generally other than our parents, of course, are educators. And

779
00:37:15,558 --> 00:37:17,678
Speaker 1: you think about if you drew up a list of

780
00:37:17,998 --> 00:37:21,118
Speaker 1: you know, a handful of the people who most influenced

781
00:37:21,118 --> 00:37:24,878
Speaker 1: you even to this day as adults and professionals. We'll

782
00:37:24,918 --> 00:37:27,518
Speaker 1: assume your parents are involved in that, but taking them out,

783
00:37:27,718 --> 00:37:29,918
Speaker 1: you got to have an educator or a coach on

784
00:37:29,958 --> 00:37:33,678
Speaker 1: your list. And what I said when I accepted this award,

785
00:37:33,758 --> 00:37:36,358
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to even go to Penn State,

786
00:37:37,118 --> 00:37:39,198
Speaker 1: and then I got the two things that every young

787
00:37:39,238 --> 00:37:42,358
Speaker 1: person really needs. And I had passion. Don't get me wrong.

788
00:37:42,398 --> 00:37:43,838
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a writer. Knew I wanted to

789
00:37:43,838 --> 00:37:46,958
Speaker 1: be a writer. I had the passion. But that alone

790
00:37:47,038 --> 00:37:49,198
Speaker 1: isn't isn't it. You need help, and what you need

791
00:37:49,438 --> 00:37:54,878
Speaker 1: is encouragement and opportunity. Encouragement and opportunity, and that's what

792
00:37:54,918 --> 00:37:57,438
Speaker 1: we owe everybody who comes behind us. And I had

793
00:37:57,558 --> 00:38:02,278
Speaker 1: boatloads of that at Penn State. So listen. I know

794
00:38:02,318 --> 00:38:04,878
Speaker 1: you're a Lafayet guy, Joe, probably it was even before that.

795
00:38:04,918 --> 00:38:07,998
Speaker 1: But when we think about those who shape us. And again,

796
00:38:08,078 --> 00:38:11,038
Speaker 1: outside of our parents, who should be the biggest influences

797
00:38:11,478 --> 00:38:14,438
Speaker 1: everybody has to have for me a teacher and or

798
00:38:14,478 --> 00:38:16,598
Speaker 1: a coach on that list of course.

799
00:38:16,678 --> 00:38:19,678
Speaker 3: And well, congratulations, man, that's awesome. I didn't realize that.

800
00:38:19,918 --> 00:38:22,118
Speaker 3: Well done. Yeah, I mean it's in our book, the

801
00:38:22,118 --> 00:38:24,238
Speaker 3: Book of Joe. We talked a lot about the mentors

802
00:38:24,238 --> 00:38:27,238
Speaker 3: and the leaders that came before us, or who did

803
00:38:27,918 --> 00:38:28,718
Speaker 3: shape or mold this.

804
00:38:28,878 --> 00:38:30,838
Speaker 2: Man. I go all the way back. I mean I

805
00:38:30,838 --> 00:38:33,118
Speaker 2: could go chronologically with the different.

806
00:38:33,158 --> 00:38:37,438
Speaker 3: Influences that I've had, and it started on ball fields

807
00:38:37,958 --> 00:38:41,158
Speaker 3: or in gymnasiums. Of course, your parents, my aunts and uncles.

808
00:38:41,598 --> 00:38:44,478
Speaker 3: I had a wonderful support team here in Hazleton, big family,

809
00:38:44,998 --> 00:38:48,758
Speaker 3: both sides. Mom and Dad had ten plus brothers and sisters.

810
00:38:49,398 --> 00:38:52,318
Speaker 3: And then all the offshoot the Italian Polish neighborhoods.

811
00:38:52,318 --> 00:38:52,798
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

812
00:38:52,838 --> 00:38:55,198
Speaker 3: I was related to everybody in town. So there's a

813
00:38:55,198 --> 00:38:57,798
Speaker 3: lot of influence there. There's a lot of discipline there too,

814
00:38:57,878 --> 00:39:00,198
Speaker 3: brother don't get out of line, because they were all

815
00:39:00,318 --> 00:39:04,358
Speaker 3: they were all permitted to met out this plan in

816
00:39:04,398 --> 00:39:08,438
Speaker 3: a way that sometimes it actually hurt. So don't screw up,

817
00:39:08,478 --> 00:39:10,558
Speaker 3: you know, because these people were there, and they were

818
00:39:10,558 --> 00:39:12,678
Speaker 3: there to defend the honor of your mom and your dad.

819
00:39:12,998 --> 00:39:16,758
Speaker 3: Beyond that, coaches wise, I could go back gosh, the

820
00:39:16,838 --> 00:39:20,918
Speaker 3: ones that really poly Binomo. I'm talking baseball coach Ed

821
00:39:20,958 --> 00:39:24,118
Speaker 3: Morgan here in town. A lot of teaching going on

822
00:39:24,158 --> 00:39:26,998
Speaker 3: with both of those guys, physically and mentally. I mejored

823
00:39:27,078 --> 00:39:31,918
Speaker 3: football coaches Richie and Ci. Adam Siminski, my high school

824
00:39:31,918 --> 00:39:34,878
Speaker 3: football coach, made me tough. There's no question this man

825
00:39:34,958 --> 00:39:37,278
Speaker 3: made me tough. You had to be tough to play

826
00:39:37,278 --> 00:39:40,438
Speaker 3: for Adam Siminski. Collegiately, it would talk about coach Bob Root,

827
00:39:40,918 --> 00:39:43,198
Speaker 3: one of the most influential coaches I've ever had. Is

828
00:39:43,278 --> 00:39:45,438
Speaker 3: keep moving it up the line til you get to professionally,

829
00:39:45,478 --> 00:39:48,998
Speaker 3: Bob Clear, Babbaloo. The Chevelle's parked in the garage right

830
00:39:49,038 --> 00:39:51,478
Speaker 3: behind me, right now with bob Aloo and blazon on

831
00:39:51,558 --> 00:39:54,998
Speaker 3: the back Babbaloo. I thought I knew everything until Baba

832
00:39:54,998 --> 00:39:57,318
Speaker 3: Lou showed up. Then I realized they knew nothing. He

833
00:39:57,398 --> 00:39:59,958
Speaker 3: took me to another level as a minor league coach

834
00:39:59,998 --> 00:40:01,838
Speaker 3: and then of course as a major league coach, where

835
00:40:02,118 --> 00:40:04,398
Speaker 3: like you and I are, the conversations we have they're

836
00:40:04,478 --> 00:40:07,318
Speaker 3: rooted in conversations I had with Bob Aloo years ago

837
00:40:07,798 --> 00:40:13,118
Speaker 3: in locker rooms on fields, loud discussions, not just you know,

838
00:40:13,318 --> 00:40:17,558
Speaker 3: nice nice little things, loud discussions Coach Bob rut if

839
00:40:17,638 --> 00:40:19,918
Speaker 3: I called to play because I was able to call

840
00:40:19,958 --> 00:40:22,038
Speaker 3: my old plays that Coach.

841
00:40:21,838 --> 00:40:24,318
Speaker 2: Root concluded was the right thing to do.

842
00:40:24,398 --> 00:40:27,238
Speaker 3: My God, I was beaming from ear to ear that

843
00:40:27,398 --> 00:40:30,238
Speaker 3: I both pleased Coach Root and did something that coach

844
00:40:30,398 --> 00:40:33,238
Speaker 3: would have done. Also as a manager, Gene Mak, I've

845
00:40:33,278 --> 00:40:36,278
Speaker 3: talked about him white he heardsag. I've been really lucky

846
00:40:36,838 --> 00:40:40,998
Speaker 3: with all the people that have brought me to this

847
00:40:41,038 --> 00:40:43,678
Speaker 3: particular point. Having said all that, and I know that

848
00:40:43,678 --> 00:40:45,318
Speaker 3: a lot of the people in the game right now

849
00:40:45,518 --> 00:40:47,678
Speaker 3: have had a long and illustrious way to get to

850
00:40:47,718 --> 00:40:49,638
Speaker 3: where they're at. But to me that I'm still concerned

851
00:40:49,638 --> 00:40:52,838
Speaker 3: that some don't have the same mentorship regarding the game,

852
00:40:52,998 --> 00:40:57,438
Speaker 3: talking baseball specifically right now, because in the minor leagues.

853
00:40:57,478 --> 00:40:58,918
Speaker 3: When I was in the minor leagues, it was a

854
00:40:58,958 --> 00:41:02,318
Speaker 3: lot of former Major leaguers, not necessarily players, but maybe

855
00:41:02,598 --> 00:41:06,158
Speaker 3: career minor league usually coaches that were there to influence

856
00:41:06,158 --> 00:41:08,438
Speaker 3: you and pass the game along to you and That's

857
00:41:08,478 --> 00:41:11,398
Speaker 3: one of my bigger concerns right now, because you hear

858
00:41:11,438 --> 00:41:13,238
Speaker 3: all the different things that are going on in the game,

859
00:41:13,278 --> 00:41:15,638
Speaker 3: and there's all these complaints. Part of it is I

860
00:41:15,678 --> 00:41:18,478
Speaker 3: think that the thing hasn't just been passed along. It's

861
00:41:18,478 --> 00:41:20,878
Speaker 3: not being passed along properly now and into the future.

862
00:41:21,318 --> 00:41:23,678
Speaker 3: And that's my concern. There's a lot of folks being

863
00:41:23,798 --> 00:41:27,838
Speaker 3: given opportunity that have not gone through all the steps necessary,

864
00:41:27,958 --> 00:41:30,718
Speaker 3: I think, to get to the point where actually I've

865
00:41:30,758 --> 00:41:33,878
Speaker 3: earned the right to be whatever. So I was very

866
00:41:33,918 --> 00:41:36,598
Speaker 3: fortunate that all these people help put me together so

867
00:41:36,678 --> 00:41:39,198
Speaker 3: that night right now, I could be on this conversation

868
00:41:39,278 --> 00:41:42,718
Speaker 3: with Tommy in the morning once a week, and we

869
00:41:42,758 --> 00:41:44,718
Speaker 3: do not rehearse this in advance at all. Ever, he

870
00:41:44,758 --> 00:41:46,998
Speaker 3: doesn't even tell me the questions he's going to be

871
00:41:47,038 --> 00:41:51,598
Speaker 3: asking me, ever, But the basis, the basics, and the

872
00:41:51,638 --> 00:41:53,918
Speaker 3: base that has been established by all these people I

873
00:41:54,078 --> 00:41:57,078
Speaker 3: just mentioned and many many more permits me to talk

874
00:41:57,118 --> 00:42:00,358
Speaker 3: to Tommy in a next temporaneous way because I've learned

875
00:42:00,358 --> 00:42:04,238
Speaker 3: my stuff based on years of doing it, combined with

876
00:42:04,638 --> 00:42:10,038
Speaker 3: great professors, mentors, teachers, all these people. So I'd like

877
00:42:10,078 --> 00:42:13,598
Speaker 3: to see more of that occur so that anybody could

878
00:42:13,598 --> 00:42:16,758
Speaker 3: talk a variety that I'm talking baseball and a variety

879
00:42:16,758 --> 00:42:20,358
Speaker 3: of different subjects within our game based on all the

880
00:42:20,398 --> 00:42:23,758
Speaker 3: contact I had before I'm having this conversation with here

881
00:42:23,798 --> 00:42:28,198
Speaker 3: this morning. That to me, I think is missing. And

882
00:42:27,838 --> 00:42:30,998
Speaker 3: that's a big concern for me, because.

883
00:42:30,918 --> 00:42:32,958
Speaker 2: Again, then you don't really know.

884
00:42:33,358 --> 00:42:35,558
Speaker 3: You think you know things, but you don't really know

885
00:42:35,718 --> 00:42:39,238
Speaker 3: stuff because you haven't done your dissertation in front of

886
00:42:39,278 --> 00:42:41,078
Speaker 3: all these people. To argue in front of Bob Cleared,

887
00:42:41,198 --> 00:42:43,078
Speaker 3: argue in front of Geen Mak, to argue in front

888
00:42:43,118 --> 00:42:47,078
Speaker 3: of Whitey Herzog, Damn, that's not easy to do well.

889
00:42:47,118 --> 00:42:50,518
Speaker 1: I like your point about mentorship in baseball, and I

890
00:42:50,518 --> 00:42:53,238
Speaker 1: think it's dead on. And I've seen some teams now

891
00:42:53,278 --> 00:42:56,878
Speaker 1: maybe zagback the other way in terms of coaching staff

892
00:42:56,918 --> 00:43:02,878
Speaker 1: and having a better blend of experience and knowledge. I mean,

893
00:43:03,158 --> 00:43:06,838
Speaker 1: I always say there's a big difference between knowledge and wisdom,

894
00:43:07,358 --> 00:43:09,758
Speaker 1: and wisdom comes with experience, and I think a team

895
00:43:09,798 --> 00:43:11,878
Speaker 1: like the New York Yankees have done a better job

896
00:43:12,278 --> 00:43:15,878
Speaker 1: in terms of balancing out their coaching staff. We're talking

897
00:43:15,878 --> 00:43:17,518
Speaker 1: about at the major league level, but I think it's

898
00:43:17,558 --> 00:43:20,438
Speaker 1: important at the minor league level. As well. I understand

899
00:43:20,478 --> 00:43:22,558
Speaker 1: it is tougher to get some of the veteran or

900
00:43:22,678 --> 00:43:25,518
Speaker 1: the former players to go down and work the minor leagues.

901
00:43:25,558 --> 00:43:28,878
Speaker 1: I get that. But in the rush to hire these

902
00:43:28,918 --> 00:43:32,718
Speaker 1: people out of colleges and pitching labs and hitting labs

903
00:43:33,078 --> 00:43:36,238
Speaker 1: who have been just been produced on the new information,

904
00:43:36,318 --> 00:43:39,278
Speaker 1: which is great, don't get me wrong, you still need

905
00:43:39,318 --> 00:43:42,038
Speaker 1: to balance that out with experience. And that kind of

906
00:43:42,038 --> 00:43:46,158
Speaker 1: brings me to this perfectly, to the sacrifice bunch, Joe,

907
00:43:46,198 --> 00:43:49,478
Speaker 1: And I know in today's game it really is devalued.

908
00:43:49,518 --> 00:43:52,878
Speaker 1: It probably was overvalued before. And I get all that,

909
00:43:53,598 --> 00:43:56,318
Speaker 1: but I'll give you another situation. Last night, and I'm

910
00:43:56,318 --> 00:43:59,118
Speaker 1: doing a game. It's the Giants at the Diamondbacks. It's

911
00:43:59,438 --> 00:44:02,758
Speaker 1: a tie game. Eighth inning, Giants get their leadoff guy

912
00:44:02,798 --> 00:44:06,718
Speaker 1: on base. Number nine hitter is now up again. It's

913
00:44:06,718 --> 00:44:09,038
Speaker 1: two to two in the eighth inning. Leadoff guy gets

914
00:44:09,118 --> 00:44:11,838
Speaker 1: on base. You're on the road, number nine hitter, who's

915
00:44:11,878 --> 00:44:15,518
Speaker 1: been up literally the major leagues for four days. Trenton Brooks,

916
00:44:15,998 --> 00:44:19,798
Speaker 1: left handed hitter, right handed pitcher on the mound. I'm

917
00:44:19,838 --> 00:44:22,238
Speaker 1: thinking you've got a bunt here. You've got the top

918
00:44:22,238 --> 00:44:25,478
Speaker 1: of the order behind him. One run can win this game?

919
00:44:25,518 --> 00:44:28,998
Speaker 1: Here two two eighth inning Trenton Brooks and I think

920
00:44:28,998 --> 00:44:31,358
Speaker 1: he bunted maybe once in the minor leagues. And that's

921
00:44:31,398 --> 00:44:33,958
Speaker 1: another issue. We're not teaching these guys how to do that.

922
00:44:34,318 --> 00:44:37,878
Speaker 1: Swings away and what does he do? Double play, double

923
00:44:37,918 --> 00:44:42,558
Speaker 1: play absolutely end of the rally. Diamondbacks win ninth inning

924
00:44:42,638 --> 00:44:45,318
Speaker 1: on a walkoff home run. I mean, if you can't

925
00:44:45,518 --> 00:44:49,038
Speaker 1: bunt in the eighth inning of a tie game with

926
00:44:49,118 --> 00:44:51,878
Speaker 1: your number nine hitter who's been in the big leagues

927
00:44:51,918 --> 00:44:57,038
Speaker 1: for four days, when are you going to bunt? And again,

928
00:44:57,158 --> 00:44:59,958
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing that everybody should be bunting and we

929
00:44:59,958 --> 00:45:02,958
Speaker 1: should go back to John McGraw and no offense gene

930
00:45:02,958 --> 00:45:06,238
Speaker 1: walk but that has to be a weapon to win

931
00:45:06,278 --> 00:45:08,958
Speaker 1: a close game at some point. And besides that, the

932
00:45:08,998 --> 00:45:12,118
Speaker 1: bunt is so rare. I've seen somebody teams poorly defend

933
00:45:12,158 --> 00:45:14,318
Speaker 1: the bunt. Now, Joe, I don't know if you've got

934
00:45:14,318 --> 00:45:17,838
Speaker 1: any pushback from you know, your front offices when you

935
00:45:17,918 --> 00:45:21,278
Speaker 1: did call for bunts or talk about bunts. But again,

936
00:45:21,358 --> 00:45:24,278
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing to go back to the nineteen seventies

937
00:45:24,318 --> 00:45:27,158
Speaker 1: and or Jay Bell for Jim Leland bunding in the

938
00:45:27,158 --> 00:45:29,638
Speaker 1: first ending every night. But I do think it has

939
00:45:29,678 --> 00:45:31,438
Speaker 1: to be a weapon in a game where that batting

940
00:45:31,478 --> 00:45:34,358
Speaker 1: average now is two forty, the fourth lowest in the

941
00:45:34,398 --> 00:45:35,118
Speaker 1: history of the game.

942
00:45:35,638 --> 00:45:38,158
Speaker 3: Yes, I wrote down as you were describing a situation,

943
00:45:38,278 --> 00:45:40,518
Speaker 3: but can that fellow bunt And you just said he

944
00:45:40,558 --> 00:45:42,998
Speaker 3: only bunted once into minor leagues, there's a perfect example.

945
00:45:43,398 --> 00:45:44,678
Speaker 3: He might have been a three ye old hitter or

946
00:45:44,678 --> 00:45:47,118
Speaker 3: four hole hitter in the minor leagues, and when you're that,

947
00:45:47,638 --> 00:45:50,638
Speaker 3: you never they never take the moment to think that

948
00:45:50,758 --> 00:45:52,438
Speaker 3: possibly there's going to be a moment where you're not

949
00:45:52,558 --> 00:45:54,598
Speaker 3: a three or four place hitter. You're going to be

950
00:45:54,678 --> 00:45:56,558
Speaker 3: in a different part of the lineup where it might

951
00:45:56,638 --> 00:45:59,358
Speaker 3: you might be called on to bunt. The context is perfect,

952
00:45:59,398 --> 00:46:02,758
Speaker 3: right there, eighth hitter number nine coming up, one two, coming.

953
00:46:02,598 --> 00:46:04,198
Speaker 2: Up after that tie ball game late.

954
00:46:04,638 --> 00:46:06,958
Speaker 3: But I would almost bet you said he was placed

955
00:46:06,958 --> 00:46:08,918
Speaker 3: for the Giants, right You said it was a Giant.

956
00:46:09,278 --> 00:46:12,638
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he came from a different organization before, even

957
00:46:12,718 --> 00:46:15,638
Speaker 1: in the minor leagues for eight years. Okay, bedas dudes

958
00:46:15,958 --> 00:46:18,238
Speaker 1: been a high on base percentage guy, not a lot

959
00:46:18,278 --> 00:46:22,398
Speaker 1: of power, But you're right, they're just not asking these

960
00:46:22,438 --> 00:46:24,958
Speaker 1: guys to drop a bunt and they just don't work

961
00:46:24,998 --> 00:46:25,238
Speaker 1: on it.

962
00:46:25,278 --> 00:46:26,758
Speaker 2: Well, that's a yeah.

963
00:46:26,758 --> 00:46:28,358
Speaker 1: It gives you flow the game, right.

964
00:46:28,278 --> 00:46:31,358
Speaker 3: Because just because you okay, bunt, Oh it's easy, why

965
00:46:31,398 --> 00:46:33,558
Speaker 3: don't you just think it's not that easy to do,

966
00:46:34,078 --> 00:46:36,238
Speaker 3: especially when these guys are throwing that hard, and if

967
00:46:36,238 --> 00:46:39,238
Speaker 3: they're throwing elevated fastballs, and if a guy's not really

968
00:46:39,278 --> 00:46:42,238
Speaker 3: done it with any proficiency before, it's not easy to

969
00:46:42,318 --> 00:46:45,118
Speaker 3: It's very hard to do. Actually, it's probably easier to

970
00:46:45,158 --> 00:46:46,798
Speaker 3: actually swing and move the ball than it is to

971
00:46:46,838 --> 00:46:50,238
Speaker 3: bunt a ballfare and move the runner unless you've worked

972
00:46:50,278 --> 00:46:54,198
Speaker 3: on it. So, yes, I'm a big believer in that. Gosh,

973
00:46:54,238 --> 00:46:57,878
Speaker 3: it's gotten so far away from that. I remember in

974
00:46:57,918 --> 00:47:02,318
Speaker 3: the what was it my early the last couple of

975
00:47:02,398 --> 00:47:06,678
Speaker 3: years in instructional leagues, probably the late early nineties. I

976
00:47:06,758 --> 00:47:08,918
Speaker 3: used to tell my number two hitter at that time,

977
00:47:09,358 --> 00:47:12,398
Speaker 3: if the leadoff hitter gets on with nobody out by

978
00:47:12,438 --> 00:47:14,198
Speaker 3: the time you get back to the dugout, this is

979
00:47:14,198 --> 00:47:15,998
Speaker 3: all I explained it to him. He has to be

980
00:47:16,038 --> 00:47:18,678
Speaker 3: at second base. I don't care how that happens. If

981
00:47:18,718 --> 00:47:19,918
Speaker 3: you feel like you could hit this ball in the

982
00:47:19,958 --> 00:47:22,518
Speaker 3: hole between first and second, go ahead. If this picture

983
00:47:22,598 --> 00:47:24,278
Speaker 3: is really tough, you're not seeing him, Well, fine, go

984
00:47:24,278 --> 00:47:25,958
Speaker 3: ahead and bunt, bunt for a hit.

985
00:47:25,878 --> 00:47:26,598
Speaker 2: Whatever you want to do.

986
00:47:26,678 --> 00:47:28,598
Speaker 3: But by the time you get back to the bench,

987
00:47:29,078 --> 00:47:31,158
Speaker 3: the guy's got to be on second base with one out.

988
00:47:31,438 --> 00:47:32,918
Speaker 3: And I said that a lot of times. So my

989
00:47:32,998 --> 00:47:35,678
Speaker 3: nine hole hitters and number eight gets on base. By

990
00:47:35,718 --> 00:47:38,078
Speaker 3: the time you get back to the bench, he's got

991
00:47:38,158 --> 00:47:40,358
Speaker 3: to be on second base somehow. So I didn't tell

992
00:47:40,398 --> 00:47:42,518
Speaker 3: him it had to be a sacrifice spunt. I wanted

993
00:47:42,518 --> 00:47:46,638
Speaker 3: them to be proficient at bunny for hit also, which

994
00:47:46,678 --> 00:47:51,038
Speaker 3: is really sometimes easier to bunt scrifice in a sacrifice

995
00:47:51,038 --> 00:47:54,118
Speaker 3: sacrificial way by bunny for hit as opposed to squaring around.

996
00:47:54,118 --> 00:47:56,998
Speaker 3: Guys get confused with their techniques. So whatever you do,

997
00:47:57,118 --> 00:48:02,358
Speaker 3: better do that. So, yes, we had bunny for everybody.

998
00:48:02,438 --> 00:48:04,078
Speaker 3: I mean, I want Timmy Samon to bunt. You know

999
00:48:04,118 --> 00:48:06,198
Speaker 3: they would screw around, put their buns down, But you

1000
00:48:06,238 --> 00:48:07,678
Speaker 3: know you're not gonna do that. You're not gonna have

1001
00:48:07,678 --> 00:48:10,758
Speaker 3: Barrett Anderson bunt. You're not gonna have Edmunds bunt. But

1002
00:48:10,998 --> 00:48:13,398
Speaker 3: even in today's game, with all that, when the shifting

1003
00:48:13,478 --> 00:48:16,318
Speaker 3: came on board, yeah, some of the big lefties. You

1004
00:48:16,358 --> 00:48:18,118
Speaker 3: wanted Tom learn how to bunt for a hit, to

1005
00:48:18,318 --> 00:48:19,998
Speaker 3: just try to get these guys out of the shift

1006
00:48:19,998 --> 00:48:22,278
Speaker 3: and soften it up a little bit, give them a

1007
00:48:22,318 --> 00:48:25,478
Speaker 3: better field to look at. So all this stuff needs

1008
00:48:25,518 --> 00:48:28,278
Speaker 3: to be nurtured in the minor leagues. But you're right,

1009
00:48:28,398 --> 00:48:31,838
Speaker 3: the argument comes from the analytical department, whereas you don't

1010
00:48:31,878 --> 00:48:33,718
Speaker 3: want to miss this opportunity to put a ball in

1011
00:48:33,718 --> 00:48:35,558
Speaker 3: the gapper over the wall, and they don't care if

1012
00:48:35,558 --> 00:48:36,438
Speaker 3: it's the number nine hitter.

1013
00:48:36,518 --> 00:48:36,958
Speaker 2: They don't.

1014
00:48:37,118 --> 00:48:39,358
Speaker 3: I'm telling you they don't. They still think there's an

1015
00:48:39,398 --> 00:48:42,238
Speaker 3: advantage to swinging the bat right there. So not a

1016
00:48:42,278 --> 00:48:45,158
Speaker 3: surprise the number one, number two that they did that

1017
00:48:45,198 --> 00:48:47,878
Speaker 3: they didn't do a number to the surprise. Not a

1018
00:48:47,918 --> 00:48:50,638
Speaker 3: surprise that the guy's really rarely bunted. So if you're

1019
00:48:50,638 --> 00:48:54,078
Speaker 3: the manager, you go through these mental gymnastics, like if

1020
00:48:54,078 --> 00:48:56,318
Speaker 3: I ask him the bunt, he's gonna foil two pitches off.

1021
00:48:56,438 --> 00:48:58,278
Speaker 3: Then they put him in a two strike hole because

1022
00:48:58,278 --> 00:49:00,718
Speaker 3: he can't get it down. I'm telling you, you know

1023
00:49:00,878 --> 00:49:03,598
Speaker 3: you you'll even you'll take a shot at the first

1024
00:49:03,638 --> 00:49:06,118
Speaker 3: pitch right put the bunt sign on. The guy squares

1025
00:49:06,118 --> 00:49:09,158
Speaker 3: around horribly looks like crap, and then of course you're

1026
00:49:09,158 --> 00:49:10,718
Speaker 3: not going to put it on for the second pitch.

1027
00:49:11,158 --> 00:49:12,838
Speaker 3: This goes to the minor leagues. That goes to what

1028
00:49:12,918 --> 00:49:16,158
Speaker 3: you consider important or not. And if you consider it important,

1029
00:49:16,278 --> 00:49:18,798
Speaker 3: you're going to have somebody be able to teach this

1030
00:49:19,078 --> 00:49:22,238
Speaker 3: on the minor league level. And it's easy to identify

1031
00:49:22,398 --> 00:49:25,238
Speaker 3: within your lineups in every minor league city or in

1032
00:49:25,238 --> 00:49:27,798
Speaker 3: an instructional league, who really needs to learn how to

1033
00:49:27,838 --> 00:49:29,998
Speaker 3: do this because if then when they do get to

1034
00:49:30,038 --> 00:49:32,358
Speaker 3: the big leagues, they may be called on to do

1035
00:49:32,398 --> 00:49:34,918
Speaker 3: this and it's too late to try to teach them there.

1036
00:49:35,398 --> 00:49:37,758
Speaker 1: Yeah, you hit on a lot of good points, Joe.

1037
00:49:37,838 --> 00:49:41,158
Speaker 1: My question would be if it were emphasized, then again,

1038
00:49:41,318 --> 00:49:44,158
Speaker 1: we're not asking the Tim Salmons of the world to bunt, right.

1039
00:49:44,478 --> 00:49:46,478
Speaker 1: You know, guys at the top, guys at the bottom

1040
00:49:46,638 --> 00:49:49,118
Speaker 1: should know how to bunt at least have it in

1041
00:49:49,158 --> 00:49:51,998
Speaker 1: their arsenal. Is that a teachable skill? Can you take

1042
00:49:52,038 --> 00:49:54,038
Speaker 1: those kind of players and work on it and make

1043
00:49:54,078 --> 00:49:56,998
Speaker 1: it a priority and give a guy at least as

1044
00:49:57,038 --> 00:49:59,718
Speaker 1: a manager an option to bunt with certain players if

1045
00:49:59,758 --> 00:50:00,518
Speaker 1: it's emphasized.

1046
00:50:00,838 --> 00:50:04,558
Speaker 3: Totally, Absolutely, there's wonderful drills to do that, Dick Mcloth

1047
00:50:04,598 --> 00:50:05,638
Speaker 3: and you used to be with the Dodgers for one

1048
00:50:05,678 --> 00:50:06,238
Speaker 3: hundred years.

1049
00:50:06,278 --> 00:50:07,478
Speaker 2: Outfield Bunny instructor.

1050
00:50:07,878 --> 00:50:10,718
Speaker 3: Dick had some great trills, including hula hoops out in

1051
00:50:10,718 --> 00:50:14,198
Speaker 3: front of home plate, stuff like that. Visual I would

1052
00:50:14,278 --> 00:50:17,638
Speaker 3: challenge guys. I would challenge them mentally. They would put

1053
00:50:17,638 --> 00:50:19,758
Speaker 3: on a decent funt and I would say, look, I'm

1054
00:50:19,838 --> 00:50:20,398
Speaker 3: challenging you.

1055
00:50:20,438 --> 00:50:22,598
Speaker 2: I would put a cone down like a traffic cone.

1056
00:50:23,118 --> 00:50:25,438
Speaker 3: I challenge you to bunt this next pitch and hit

1057
00:50:25,478 --> 00:50:28,358
Speaker 3: that cone, and they would because their focus is so good.

1058
00:50:29,158 --> 00:50:31,518
Speaker 3: You do this often enough and you really let these

1059
00:50:31,518 --> 00:50:35,558
Speaker 3: guys know how important it is, they'll get it done. Furthermore,

1060
00:50:35,558 --> 00:50:38,598
Speaker 3: you're never going to get compensated for sacrifice bus But

1061
00:50:38,718 --> 00:50:42,038
Speaker 3: somehow everybody from the top on down's got to make

1062
00:50:42,078 --> 00:50:44,158
Speaker 3: sure that the player that you're asking to do this

1063
00:50:44,358 --> 00:50:46,798
Speaker 3: knows that it's important and it's not going to go

1064
00:50:47,118 --> 00:50:50,318
Speaker 3: unrewarded in a sense. So, yes, all of this stuff

1065
00:50:50,358 --> 00:50:54,158
Speaker 3: can be taught. There's drills to do it. There's technique. Absolutely,

1066
00:50:54,598 --> 00:50:56,838
Speaker 3: sacrifice spunk. They closer to the plate, move up in

1067
00:50:56,878 --> 00:51:00,038
Speaker 3: the box more balls are in fair territory as an example,

1068
00:51:00,278 --> 00:51:03,358
Speaker 3: But for a hit, yes, bat moves first, You get

1069
00:51:03,358 --> 00:51:05,598
Speaker 3: the bat out front move first, create the angle base

1070
00:51:05,638 --> 00:51:09,518
Speaker 3: a foul ball. There's all these different thoughts, and if

1071
00:51:09,558 --> 00:51:11,918
Speaker 3: you did, like anything else, what if the old line

1072
00:51:11,958 --> 00:51:14,278
Speaker 3: was that if you did something for twenty one consecutive days.

1073
00:51:14,158 --> 00:51:16,518
Speaker 2: You could retrain a habit. I would do that.

1074
00:51:16,638 --> 00:51:18,718
Speaker 3: I would have guys whould say, listen, we're gonna do

1075
00:51:18,718 --> 00:51:21,998
Speaker 3: this twenty one consecutive days. Okay, boring, I know that,

1076
00:51:22,278 --> 00:51:24,918
Speaker 3: but I believe i'd After twenty one consecutive days of

1077
00:51:24,958 --> 00:51:27,318
Speaker 3: doing this, you're gonna have a pretty decent idea of

1078
00:51:27,638 --> 00:51:30,518
Speaker 3: the technique, what the feels like where you're supposed to

1079
00:51:30,518 --> 00:51:32,638
Speaker 3: set up in the box. Your first move is going

1080
00:51:32,678 --> 00:51:35,718
Speaker 3: to look like Adam Kennedy bunting left handed. A lot

1081
00:51:35,718 --> 00:51:37,638
Speaker 3: of guys do it right now. But you have to

1082
00:51:37,678 --> 00:51:39,878
Speaker 3: pick up your stride foot, your front foot as though

1083
00:51:39,878 --> 00:51:41,958
Speaker 3: you're going to hit, in order to not alert the

1084
00:51:41,998 --> 00:51:44,598
Speaker 3: third basement. So a lot of times left handed hitters

1085
00:51:44,598 --> 00:51:47,358
Speaker 3: would just leave the front foot down and they would

1086
00:51:47,358 --> 00:51:49,878
Speaker 3: cross over with their back foot, although not all, but

1087
00:51:49,958 --> 00:51:53,158
Speaker 3: the third baseman would just read the front foot not

1088
00:51:53,278 --> 00:51:54,758
Speaker 3: lifting up, and all of a sudden, you can charge

1089
00:51:54,758 --> 00:51:56,518
Speaker 3: as hard as he wants because he knows knew it

1090
00:51:56,558 --> 00:51:58,798
Speaker 3: was going to be a butt. Stuff like that would

1091
00:51:58,798 --> 00:52:02,558
Speaker 3: be part of this class on bunting. So I did

1092
00:52:02,638 --> 00:52:06,158
Speaker 3: teach bunning a lot love teaching bunny a lot Bunny

1093
00:52:06,158 --> 00:52:08,518
Speaker 3: for hit as a weapon. It could start a rally,

1094
00:52:08,838 --> 00:52:11,398
Speaker 3: get somebody out of a funk, changes the defense, who

1095
00:52:11,438 --> 00:52:13,998
Speaker 3: was the corner infielders in, gives you more opportunity to

1096
00:52:14,078 --> 00:52:15,038
Speaker 3: drive the ball by them.

1097
00:52:15,198 --> 00:52:16,438
Speaker 2: There's so many things.

1098
00:52:16,158 --> 00:52:18,998
Speaker 3: Going on there that's not You're not gonna hit home

1099
00:52:19,078 --> 00:52:21,398
Speaker 3: run every time. These guys at number nine hit it

1100
00:52:21,478 --> 00:52:23,918
Speaker 3: was gonna get maybe ten home runs all year. So

1101
00:52:23,958 --> 00:52:25,758
Speaker 3: you're gonna bet on a home run right now one

1102
00:52:25,758 --> 00:52:28,198
Speaker 3: if ten, as opposed to putting a runner in scoring

1103
00:52:28,238 --> 00:52:30,638
Speaker 3: position that could score in a bunch of different ways.

1104
00:52:30,638 --> 00:52:33,758
Speaker 2: This is where I lose my faith in all.

1105
00:52:33,598 --> 00:52:37,638
Speaker 3: These other arguments the analytical world, because it's not true.

1106
00:52:37,678 --> 00:52:40,598
Speaker 3: It's not baseball. It doesn't happen that way. And that's

1107
00:52:40,598 --> 00:52:43,758
Speaker 3: why all these numbers that you're describing the funk that

1108
00:52:43,798 --> 00:52:46,038
Speaker 3: the game is in offensive because people don't do anything

1109
00:52:46,118 --> 00:52:47,558
Speaker 3: except try to hit home runs.

1110
00:52:47,878 --> 00:52:51,198
Speaker 1: Yeah, the last time I checked, the Detroit Tigers did

1111
00:52:51,238 --> 00:52:53,718
Speaker 1: not have a bunt hit or a sacrifice.

1112
00:52:53,758 --> 00:52:54,478
Speaker 2: Hit there you go.

1113
00:52:54,678 --> 00:52:59,078
Speaker 1: I mean that's just crazy at all. Hey, as usual, Joe,

1114
00:52:59,118 --> 00:53:03,078
Speaker 1: we covered a lot of ground on this episode, so

1115
00:53:03,158 --> 00:53:06,878
Speaker 1: I can out wait to see what you've chosen to

1116
00:53:06,918 --> 00:53:08,478
Speaker 1: take us to the finish line tonight.

1117
00:53:09,038 --> 00:53:11,318
Speaker 3: Well it's uh, I guess it's in there, wil going

1118
00:53:11,358 --> 00:53:14,238
Speaker 3: in there somewhere, but it's from an Anonymous. Anonymous is

1119
00:53:14,238 --> 00:53:16,238
Speaker 3: a pretty popular contributor.

1120
00:53:16,398 --> 00:53:17,478
Speaker 1: He gets quoted a lot.

1121
00:53:17,518 --> 00:53:19,718
Speaker 2: Anonymous he does Anonymous does.

1122
00:53:19,878 --> 00:53:23,758
Speaker 3: Patience is when you're supposed to get mad, but you

1123
00:53:23,838 --> 00:53:26,878
Speaker 3: choose to understand just looking about what's going on around me,

1124
00:53:26,878 --> 00:53:28,998
Speaker 3: and it's I'm talking to myself right now. You know,

1125
00:53:29,038 --> 00:53:30,878
Speaker 3: you get you get, you get the slow burn going

1126
00:53:30,918 --> 00:53:32,358
Speaker 3: on because you think you're right. You think you're right,

1127
00:53:32,358 --> 00:53:35,078
Speaker 3: you think you're right, but and this whatever's saying there,

1128
00:53:35,118 --> 00:53:38,078
Speaker 3: whatever they believe in, is you're you're not buying into it,

1129
00:53:38,118 --> 00:53:39,558
Speaker 3: So you get the slow burn going on.

1130
00:53:40,358 --> 00:53:41,118
Speaker 2: Uh, not good.

1131
00:53:41,318 --> 00:53:44,118
Speaker 3: So be patient when you're supposed to get mad, and

1132
00:53:44,118 --> 00:53:46,438
Speaker 3: then you just choose to understand and take it in

1133
00:53:46,518 --> 00:53:47,038
Speaker 3: and listen.

1134
00:53:47,358 --> 00:53:49,998
Speaker 2: You know. The low Piz situation kind.

1135
00:53:49,798 --> 00:53:52,238
Speaker 3: Of motivated this for me, and I didn't even know

1136
00:53:52,238 --> 00:53:55,078
Speaker 3: you're going to go there today, but based on what

1137
00:53:55,198 --> 00:53:58,278
Speaker 3: happened with him, that's what made me choose patience today.

1138
00:53:58,958 --> 00:54:00,918
Speaker 2: As the quote, and I thought this one was very

1139
00:54:01,038 --> 00:54:01,438
Speaker 2: sure mean.

1140
00:54:01,638 --> 00:54:05,078
Speaker 3: So you're supposed to get mad, all right, but maybe

1141
00:54:05,078 --> 00:54:07,558
Speaker 3: if you just take a little more time to understand,

1142
00:54:07,638 --> 00:54:10,238
Speaker 3: you might come to a better conclusion. That was the

1143
00:54:10,358 --> 00:54:11,318
Speaker 3: genesis for today.

1144
00:54:11,478 --> 00:54:14,438
Speaker 1: As usual, well said, enjoy it, Joe. We'll see you

1145
00:54:14,438 --> 00:54:15,518
Speaker 1: next time on the Book.

1146
00:54:15,318 --> 00:54:17,038
Speaker 2: Of Joe, see your brother, Thank you.

1147
00:54:30,158 --> 00:54:33,398
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1148
00:54:33,598 --> 00:54:38,598
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1149
00:54:38,718 --> 00:54:40,478
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.