1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,599 Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, Eve's here. We're doubling up today with two 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: events in history on with the show. Welcome to this 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: day in History class. I'm Eves. We'll be continuing our 4 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: recognition of Women's History Month with another special guest who's 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: coming onto the show today to talk about Lillian Wald. 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: Lillian Wald was born on this day in eighteen sixty seven. 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: She was an American nurse, a social worker, and an author. 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: Our special guest today is Marjorie Field, who teaches history 9 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: at Babson College. Hi, Marjorie, how are you. I'm good? 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: How are you? I'm good? Thank you for asking. So 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: can you just start off by telling me a little 12 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: bit about yourself and how you got into Lillian Wald? Oh? Sure. 13 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: So when I was in college, I was really excited 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: by a historian who taught me my junior in college, 15 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: and it was, of course, today we would call it 16 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: gender history, but back then it was called women's history. 17 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: And I decided that when I was going to do 18 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: a senior thesis, it was going to cross both of 19 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: of my majors, which by then were Judaic studies, Jewish studies, 20 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: and u S History. So I was looking for a 21 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: topic with my advisor, who was this marvelous women's history professor, 22 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: and she recommended this woman named Lilian Wald, whom she 23 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: knew would cross both Jewish history because she was Jewish 24 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: at birth, and also would cross US history because she 25 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 1: was really invested in US currents of progressive era activism. 26 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: So I took this on as my senior thesis in 27 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: college and then decided that I liked history so much 28 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to go on to get a doctorate in history. 29 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: I got into a program in New England and ended 30 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: up doing a doctoral thesis on Lilian Wald that built 31 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: on my honor thesis, and then when I got a job, 32 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: I turned the doctoral dissertation into a book, and that 33 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: was the book that was published by U n C 34 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: in UM two thousand and eight. So I've spent many, 35 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: many years with Wald. I generally introduced in forums where 36 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: I talked about Wald as somebody who spent a lot 37 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: of time with Wald, and indeed I have. So can 38 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: you tell me who was Lilian Wald? Sure? So she 39 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: was born in eighteen sixty seven, after the Civil War, 40 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: and she was born in Ohio, but she always thought 41 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: of her hometown as Rochester, New York, which is where 42 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: she was raised. She moved there when she was young. 43 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: She was the child of immigrants, German Jewish immigrants who were, 44 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: you know, relatively americanized and assimilated. Weren't particularly Jewishly affiliated, 45 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: although her grandparents were, and she was a little bit, 46 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: which I talked about in the biography. She very early 47 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: on in her life decided that she didn't want to 48 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: be a society wife like her moms and aunts and 49 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: even her older sister, and she decided once she saw 50 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: her sister giving birth that she wanted She sort of 51 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 1: chatted with the nurse who was attending her sister's child's birth, 52 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: and she decided she wanted to be a nurse. So 53 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: she ended up going to one of the few careers 54 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: that was available to women at the time was to 55 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: be common nurse. So she went to nursing school, and 56 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: after nursing school, she graduated in she ended up going 57 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: to a school where she could have been a doctor. 58 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: It was one of the few women's medical colleges open 59 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: at the time, and so this was her first exposure 60 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: to New York City. Because she was an upstate person. 61 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: I don't think it's a mistake that she chose a 62 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: women's world. She was a lesbian. She was very nurtured 63 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: and sustained by these women's relationships. Um while she was there, 64 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: she was exposed for the first time to the poverty 65 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: of the Lower east Side, which was then at the 66 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: turn of the twenty century just completely overwhelmed with immigrants 67 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: who were fueling the industrial growth of the United States, 68 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: garment trades and other industries, and a lot of well 69 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: she herself and then since then many others quote her 70 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: when they talk about this experience as her baptism of 71 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: fire Right. So she's young, and she's got these nursing skills, 72 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: and she's exposed to the poverty as a Lower eas 73 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: Side for the first time, and basically she decided to 74 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: settle on the Lower east Side and open what was 75 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: called a settlement house. First they offered nursing care to 76 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: the immigrants, the industrial immigrants of the Lower east Side, 77 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: and it just expanded, and her work, begun in the 78 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: eighteen nineties, is now still living. The legacies live on 79 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: at both Visiting Our Service of New York and Henry 80 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: Street Settlement, which is still on the Lower east Side. 81 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: So it was healthcare on a sliding fee scale, often 82 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: for free for the desperately poor. That then expanded into 83 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: social work and theater work and all the kinds of 84 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: things that you still see flourishing at Henry Street, which 85 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: is turning five this year. It's a great place. Um. Yeah, 86 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: So I say this because her legacy lies in nursing 87 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: and social work, but also in a sort of like 88 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: marvelous universalist philosophy that says that everybody, even a relatively 89 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: wealthy white woman from upstate New York, has a responsibility 90 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: to help people who are less fortunate and born into 91 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: less fortunate circumstances. That was her philosophy that guided her 92 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: nursing and her social work. And she protested war, she 93 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: fought for women's suffrage, She was a civil rights advocate, 94 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: She was an immigrant rights advocate. She took the side 95 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: of labor in many labor disputes. She really tried to 96 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: apply that philosophy across the board to all these really 97 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: important twentieth century campaigns. You know, we're that we're still 98 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: benefiting from in many different ways today. So what was 99 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: it about her that made her advocate this hard for 100 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: so many people? Like so many people were exposed to 101 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: poverty and maybe had backgrounds and nursing as well, but 102 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: they didn't do the things that Lilian Wall did. So 103 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: what was it about her that that drove her to 104 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: be the person? And she was, well, you know, when 105 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: you write a book about somebody, you try to dig 106 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: deep into their motivations, right, And so my sort of 107 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,239 Speaker 1: holl early take on that was that because her family 108 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: had benefited from a pretty liberal um spirit of the 109 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: times in Upstate New York as Jewish immigrants, it was 110 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: a pretty liberal place that was eerie. Canal was connected 111 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: to Rochester. There were abolitionist campaigns and Rochester women's rights campaigns. 112 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: That spirit of sort of liberal tolerance and acceptance I 113 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: think she carried with her and brought with her to 114 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: New York. I think also, you know, she was in 115 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: very much women's world. It was so attractive to me 116 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: when I was young, um, to think about all these 117 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: women trying to find a place for themselves right as 118 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: women without even having the right to vote. So I 119 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 1: think there was a sense that women were responsible for 120 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: care and nurturing, and so they took that, you know, 121 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: almost imperative, but certainly that sort of conventional idea out 122 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: into the public sphere and thought of themselves as needing 123 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: to care for these immigrants and the you know, to 124 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: undu white supremacy, Like they could have that power if 125 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: society would be willing to give it to them. So 126 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: they carved out the space for themselves trying to do 127 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: this work. Mhm. How did she change the fields of 128 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: nursing and public health while he was working? Yeah, so, 129 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: I mean when she was involved, she was one of 130 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: the first Jewish nurses to be professional. First of all, 131 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: it was largely Christian nurses. It was also a lot 132 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: of charity organizations employed nurses. She was very intent on 133 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: having them separate from any charity work. She wrote early 134 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: on about the fact that they carried municipal badges, so 135 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: they were seen as you know, sort of employees, not 136 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: technically but of the city, but having that official status. 137 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: She really wanted public health to be seen as a 138 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: right of citizenship for all people. So I think if 139 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: we think about it today, like the language of today 140 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: would be I think more holistic, Like she thought everybody 141 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: was entitled to the right, not just to healthcare. But 142 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: ultimately she was working like many women, again very gendered 143 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: for playground in New York City, which didn't exist before 144 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: She got there for um safe milk because you would 145 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: get milk from milk stations at the time before refrigeration 146 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: was widespread. So I think she professionalized it. She made 147 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: it obvious something this country still hasn't learned, that health 148 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: care should be a human rights right. But she also 149 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: had a very holistic approach to it, to see that 150 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: it wasn't these people's fault that they were poor, but 151 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: it was the environment that was leading to you know, 152 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: it was deprivation that was to blame for all of 153 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: the problems, um, criminality and other kinds of sort of 154 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: desperate products of the poverty that they were living with 155 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: day in and day out. So she I think she 156 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: had a sort of a right way of thinking about things, 157 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: which is to uplift people and to give them their 158 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: basic rights and people will make good choices and help 159 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: others and better society as a whole. It was part 160 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: of her sort of universalist philosophy, I think. M hm. 161 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: So you mentioned earlier a little bit about the legacy, 162 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: her legacy that lives in the settlement House. Is there 163 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: any other way that her work shows up today in 164 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: nursing are beyond? It's a good question. I mean her settlement. 165 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: I just love Henry Street so much, and they just 166 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: put up an exhibit for the anniversary that really draws 167 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: a spotlight on her. So that institution is still in 168 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: its original home, the staircase that it was there. You know, 169 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: of course a lot of the long time employees think 170 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: it's haunted. But whether she shows up there or not, actually, um, 171 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: I think in nursing, in social work, certainly in gendered history, right. 172 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: I also think as we go back and try to 173 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: think of lgbt Q heroes, you know, she alerts us 174 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: to this very sustaining world of women in the early 175 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: twentieth century. I also, you know, with this past election 176 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: of our president, I was asked to talk about her 177 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: in a quite a few venues, to talk about her 178 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: approach to immigrant rights, which I think is always a lesson, 179 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: maybe never more urgent than it is right now, at 180 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: least in my lifetime, because she the quote I always 181 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: go back to, she called immigrants new life and new 182 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: blood for this country, and just talking about the energy 183 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: that they bring to the United States and get living 184 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: in a time when that immigrants are demonized and their 185 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: contributions are erased or made invisible. I think that's a 186 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: really important lesson that she still offers us to mm hm. 187 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: Is there anything that she did or maybe said that 188 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: may surprise people in a good way? Well, I mean, 189 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, again, when you are doing this research, you 190 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: try to present all sides of the person um and 191 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 1: she held onto Stalinism into the nineteen thirties, which I 192 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: don't know if that means a lot to your listeners, 193 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: but you know, it's kind of a long time to 194 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: hold onto the ideal without recognizing the evils that Stalin 195 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: was doing. And that might be surprising. I think among 196 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: liberals and leftists in the United States. It wasn't entirely uncommon, 197 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: but it was when I remember, you know, finding out 198 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: in graduate school and feeling a sense of disappointment with 199 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: my hero, but also recognizing, you know, that she was 200 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: a human and made errors and judgment. Um. I think 201 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: people are often surprised to learn that she was gay, 202 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: But again, I think there's so much room for heroes 203 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: of all kinds in our past. But it's a helpful 204 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: thing to talk about when you talk about her legacy. Yeah, 205 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: I think that that's the thing that a lot of 206 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: people are struggling with right now. Recognizing people's whole lives, 207 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: and that people were complicated and trying to deal with 208 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: all the elements of the things that they believe their 209 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: philosophies and that they did. So what do you want 210 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: people to take away from Lillian wall story overall? Well, 211 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: I think, you know, as I say, the lessons about 212 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: her lessons on immigration and a certain openness and the 213 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: way we can all benefit from that openness is maybe 214 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: her most urgent lesson today. But I also would argue 215 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: that argue, but I would point out that here is 216 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: somebody born to privilege who made these choices based on 217 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: her conscience. But more than that, right, But it wasn't 218 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: just about her sense like this is wrong and someone 219 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: needs to do it, and that someone could be me. 220 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: It was also she always used this language of mutual responsibility. 221 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: And you know, you see this in Gandhi's writings and 222 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: Dr King's writings, this idea that you know, if one 223 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: of us isn't free, then none of us are free. 224 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: And I think Wald brought that into her social work, 225 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: into her public health work, into her anti militarism, her 226 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: work for civil rights and immigrant rights. So I would 227 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: say that that sense of mutual responsibility is really key 228 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: to her legacy and also has a certain urgency today. 229 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: It's easy to shelter ourselves off from the things that 230 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: are bad in the world and the suffering in the world, 231 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: but it it is our obligation and to to look 232 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: hard at it and figure out our own role in 233 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: on doing some of those evils. I guess that's what 234 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: I would say. And when she was working, did she 235 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 1: get any pushback from people from anybody who criticized her 236 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: or you know, had strong reactions to the work that 237 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: she was doing. Oh, definitely, yes, of course she I 238 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: mean again, so I was working with some of the criticisms. 239 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: I probably didn't engage as much as new scholars will find. 240 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: But some people thought her work should be more Jewish. 241 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: There were those who really wanted to claim her for 242 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: the Jewish world, which she really pushed back against. She 243 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: was born to a Jewish family but never really affiliated. 244 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: So I think the idea that people get to choose 245 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: their own identities right and liberate themselves from the ones 246 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: that they feel don't fit with their sense of themselves, 247 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: I think that's important. Um. So the other piece that 248 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: I ran into, and this is pretty common knowledge, is 249 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 1: that when she fought against US um involved in the 250 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: World War One, she lost funding from some pretty famous people. 251 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 1: They really thought that the US was justified in getting involved. 252 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: But she, interestingly, fascinatingly understood war to work against the 253 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: interest of all people. She knew that spending that might 254 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: well have gone towards public health initiatives was going to 255 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: be diverted into militarism and weapons and fighting. So she 256 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: really talked about being anti war in the vein of 257 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: being for public health, which is, you know, so radical. 258 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I think we more associate that kind of 259 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: thinking with Johnson's War on Poverty and people understanding that 260 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: the War on Poverty funds were diverted into Vietnam. But 261 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: here's somebody having that conversation putting that into the public 262 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: sphere around World War One, which is pretty radical. Yeah, 263 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: it's her story so interesting because there are so many 264 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: parallels and this was a century ago. So is there 265 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: anything else that you would like to add, anything about 266 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: Lily involved, or anything that you've been thinking about that 267 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: that came up while we were talking. I don't think so. 268 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: I just I'm really glad we're talking about her, because, 269 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: as you say, I think she's I teach a course 270 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: on the nineteen twenties and a century ago things were 271 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: so bad in this country. I mean lynching and the 272 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: Red Scare and crackdowns on immigrants, and we're living through 273 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: an era that is so frightening in terms of the 274 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: way state power is being used to oppress and marginalize 275 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: and sanctioned violence against women, against immigrants, against LGBTQ. So 276 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: I would say that, you know, she stood for kind 277 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: of the best of what state power can do, which 278 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: can connect and enlighten and uplift rather than push down. Yes, true, Yeah, 279 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: I'm glad that we got to talk about her today 280 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: and shared her story with everybody, because I'm sure there 281 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: are a lot of people who had no idea about her. 282 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: So thank you again. If you're coming on the show, well, 283 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: thank you so much for inviting me. I really appreciate it. 284 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: If you want to know more about Lilian Wald, you 285 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: can read Marjorie's book Lilian Walt, a biography. You can 286 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: be on the lookout for more special episodes on Sundays 287 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: this month to honor women's contributions to history. But until then, 288 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: see tomorrow for another nugget from history. Welcome back. I'm 289 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: your host Eves and you're tuned into This day in 290 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: History Class, a show that takes history and squeezes it 291 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: into bite size stories. The day was March tenth six. 292 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: An explosion and fire in a French mind killed one 293 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: thousand people, making it one of the deadliest mining disasters 294 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: in history. The Courier Colliery was a series of minds 295 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: near pat Kill, a of northern France. More than two 296 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: thousand people worked in the mind and their coal was 297 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: used mostly in the manufacture of gas. Just days before 298 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: the explosion, smoke and toxic gas were detected at the site, 299 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: but the company continued business as usual. Just before seven 300 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: am on March tenth, there was a huge explosion. The 301 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: explosion was likely caused by the ignition of coal dust 302 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: in the mine, but it's not quite clear what caused 303 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: that ignition. It could have been caused by the flame 304 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: of the miner's lamp. It also could have been caused 305 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: by the mishandling of explosives. Regardless, the fire spread and 306 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: the explosion caused many deaths and a lot of destruction. 307 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: Many people died due to asphyxiation or were crushed by 308 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: falling structures. Others were killed immediately in the blast. Though 309 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: many people died in the disaster, some escaped and others 310 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: remained alive in the minds. After the initial explosion, state 311 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: engineers took over operations and f its began to put 312 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: out fires, find survivors and recover bodies, but by the 313 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: end of the first day there were still one thousand 314 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: and one hundred people underground. Fires and toxic gases underground 315 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: got in the way of rescue efforts. The stint of 316 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: decomposing bodies also posed a health hazard. Experts were sent 317 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: in from Paris and Germany to help with the rescues. Still, 318 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: during March, less than two hundred bodies were recovered. That said, 319 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: a group of thirteen survivors was found on March thirtie, 320 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: having survived twenty days after the explosion. They had stayed 321 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: alive by eating horse meat, drinking stagnant water, and resorting 322 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: to other unappealing but necessary ways to sustain themselves. On 323 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: April four, another miner was discovered alive. He was the 324 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: last survivor found in the Courier mind Newspapers in the 325 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: area reported on the disaster. Miners across France went on 326 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: strike in response to the tragedy, and an official survivor's 327 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: fund was established by law, but within the mining communities, 328 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: people remained upset about the way the rescue was executed. 329 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: Some people alleged that the state engineers had a vested 330 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: interest in failing so they could get more work and 331 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: money from colliery owners. Others believed that rescue efforts were 332 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: not extensive so the company could save money. Many of 333 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 1: the workers who survived were ill or injured in some way, 334 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: and compensation was not satisfactory. Some of the survivors went 335 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: back to work in the minds I'm Eave Jeffcote and 336 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: hopefully you know a little more about history today than 337 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: you did yesterday. You can find us on social media 338 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: at t D I h C Podcast on Twitter, Instagram, 339 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 1: and Facebook. And if you would like to write me 340 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 1: a letter, you can scan it, turn it into a PDF, 341 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: and send it to us via email at to stay 342 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: at iHeartMedia dot com. Thanks for listening, and I hope 343 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: you'll be back tomorrow. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 344 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 345 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.