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Speaker 1: What's that at the bed? It's spooky and JOOKI I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure it's dead. It's coming this way. Wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: I'm ghosted. I gos Nandez. P Hey boo, it's me

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Speaker 1: Roz and welcome to Ghosted by Roz Hernandez, the podcast

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Speaker 1: where I talk to people that I like about the paranormal.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, we have I think our first ever

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Speaker 1: practicing lawyer on the show today. It's Michael Foot. He

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Speaker 1: is the host of the new podcast unexactly right called

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Speaker 1: Brief Recess, a legal podcast, which he hosts with Melissa Malbranch.

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Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with him. Many people know him from his

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Speaker 1: social media, always giving great legal advice. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there are cases of the paranormal in court, and so

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Speaker 1: we got to talk about some of those with him today.

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Speaker 1: So fun. He also has a great kind of ghost

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Speaker 1: story situation. I'm filing this one under the category of expert.

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Speaker 1: It's it's not like your typical episode. We didn't even

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Speaker 1: get to the haunted eBay Doll or the EVPs this week,

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Speaker 1: and we ran out of time. But don't worry, we'll

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Speaker 1: be back business as usual next week. All right, let's

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Speaker 1: just get to it. Court is in session. Here's my

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Speaker 1: conversation with Michael Foot and with the show. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: court is in session. I actually I have this always. Actually, wait,

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Speaker 1: I would be such a good judge.

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Speaker 2: You don't even understand you are a good judge and

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Speaker 2: you're already on the stand, and so thank you for

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Speaker 2: having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of like the ghost judge. So I had

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Speaker 1: this and sometimes people are like, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's a ghost.

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Speaker 2: Story, and then you you adjudicate, yes, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Turns out, in my opinion, it's always a ghost.

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Speaker 2: So and it probably usually is, like and honestly, you're

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Speaker 2: probably more accurate than the American judiciary. Your decision about

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Speaker 2: whether something's a ghost probably closer to justice than what

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Speaker 2: I'm dealing with.

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Speaker 1: Oh how is your life? What are you dealing with

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Speaker 1: right now?

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Speaker 2: It's kind of a hot mess. It's kind of if

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Speaker 2: you were in the green room and you saw the

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Speaker 2: inside of my bag. It's kind of like that. It's

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Speaker 2: like candy wrappers, a couple pill bottles, and that's an

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Speaker 2: half empty water bottle. That's kind of my life right now.

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Speaker 2: Is it's chaotic. I mean, I'm an immigration lawyer in

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Speaker 2: America in twenty twenty six. You can only imagine what's happening.

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Speaker 2: So that's kind of my life and we don't have

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Speaker 2: to get i mean deep into it. But my personal

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Speaker 2: life is great.

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Speaker 1: Good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. My husband's a bad bitch. Love him good. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's an icon in his own right. He texted me

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Speaker 2: this morning, not the dog, because I'm in LA now

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Speaker 2: and we live in New York and basically.

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Speaker 1: But you're just visiting.

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Speaker 2: I'm just visiting. Yeah, basically last night. It sounds, based

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Speaker 2: off a few chaotic text messages that the dog just

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Speaker 2: kind of like helicoptered his dick while pissing all over

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Speaker 2: the apartment.

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Speaker 1: That's actually very impressive for a dog to be able

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Speaker 1: to do at he's thirteen.

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Speaker 2: I was like, wow, that very proud. He hit the ceiling,

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, I'm like, how'd you actually manage to hit

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Speaker 2: the ceiling?

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Speaker 1: That is a stream on that guy? That's great?

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Speaker 2: Who among us hasn't I can't.

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Speaker 1: Say I have? That's oppressive. What's your dog's name?

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Speaker 2: Jack? Jack? Yeah, he's really bad. He's a really bad dog.

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Speaker 2: Who was I talking?

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Speaker 1: Okay, why are you trying to make me attracted to

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Speaker 1: your dog? I feel like you're like, he's a bad

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Speaker 1: boy with a huge.

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Speaker 2: Dick and he's a brilliant display.

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Speaker 1: Stop saying all my buzzwords.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you heard it here first? Are you on like

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Speaker 2: Sniffy's or any of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm a grinder, but only for the most part, only

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Speaker 1: for finding guys to go ghost hunting with me.

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Speaker 2: That's a thing you can do on ground, the.

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Speaker 1: Thing I do on my YouTube channel ros Hernandez the

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Speaker 1: Haunted Doll.

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Speaker 2: You heard it here first?

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Speaker 1: Oh, They've heard it many times on this podcast. I

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Speaker 1: never shut the fuck up about it. Please subscribe.

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Speaker 2: People were talking at the bar this weekend. I was

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Speaker 2: at a gay bar and people were talking about how

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Speaker 2: expensive the Grinder premium is pay and that the ads

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Speaker 2: are really bad.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: I haven't been on Grinder in a re really long time.

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Speaker 2: It's been like a decade.

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Speaker 1: It's great. You're really missing out good stuff over there.

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Speaker 1: It's really the scene.

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Speaker 2: But someone at the bar pulled up like the snippies

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Speaker 2: app and was showing me what was happening.

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Speaker 1: That scares me.

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Speaker 2: That's hole on me, Like, it's actually so aggressive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's nice to see who your neighbors are.

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Speaker 1: But I don't want.

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Speaker 2: It's mister Rogers and see where I am.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you see things that you can't erase from your

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Speaker 1: mind of your neighbors. If you're in a situation like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because then you're taking out the trash and you

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Speaker 2: know you're you run into them.

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Speaker 1: You're like, oh, I know what you're into.

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Speaker 2: Hi, mister Henderson. Hi Gooner thirty four, not the Gooner.

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Speaker 2: The first five minutes of the show, we're already talking

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Speaker 2: about goone.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Ghosted. Okay, so you are here not to

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Speaker 1: talk about gooning. You are here to talk about the

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Speaker 1: paranormal with me.

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Speaker 2: So excited. I'm a true believer.

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Speaker 1: I really. Here's the thing. I know this is fucked

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Speaker 1: up and some people will not like that I'm saying this,

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Speaker 1: But there is kind of a thing where you're like, wait, really,

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Speaker 1: smart people are not supposed to believe this.

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Speaker 2: No, I think I'm going to clarify your statement.

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Speaker 1: So when like a doctor or like a very educated

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Speaker 1: scholar or what, you're like, wait, they believe in this,

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Speaker 1: that it might be real.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I know, Like there are a couple of

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Speaker 2: books about this. I think a Mary Roach talks said

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Speaker 2: like she's a scientist and she did a whole book

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Speaker 2: on the paranormal And I think that oftentimes gets mistranslated, right,

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Speaker 2: this notion that people who believe in this stuff aren't smart,

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Speaker 2: or that really smart people couldn't possibly believe in that.

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Speaker 2: But I feel like if you are really smart, you're

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Speaker 2: able to understand an argument, understand logic, but also when

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Speaker 2: that logic and argument fails. Yeah, So I know the

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Speaker 2: things that I've seen or heard from other people, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, logically, there's no reasonable way this could have

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Speaker 2: possibly happened without paranormal activity.

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Speaker 1: Well, these conversations sometimes at least what we're looking for

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Speaker 1: is these these scenarios that you kind of hit a

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Speaker 1: dead end with and you're like literally dead, and it

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Speaker 1: must be the dead. If we can't figure out what

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Speaker 1: this is, well, I guess the only logical explanation is

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Speaker 1: an invisible dead person.

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Speaker 2: It's possibly that. Yeah, I think that. I don't think

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Speaker 2: we'll leave this conversation today with me having any resolution

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Speaker 2: as to what happened to me.

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Speaker 1: Good. I don't want that.

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Speaker 2: And people come on here and they're like ras.

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Speaker 1: People come to me thinking that I'm going to give

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Speaker 1: them answers, and I don't know anything. Okay, none of

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Speaker 1: us know anything.

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Speaker 2: We're just figuring it out together.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe anyone that acts like they know anything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just have fun, Yeah, enjoy the mystery.

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Speaker 2: I do feel like that's where Sylvia Brown got a

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Speaker 2: lot of the hate, or is getting a lot of

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Speaker 2: the mimography. Right now. I'm a Sylvia Brown's truther. I

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Speaker 2: think Sylvia Brown is right, Like, I think she's actually psychic.

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Speaker 2: That is my hot take, and I'm willing to go

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Speaker 2: on the record with that.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that because her nails, Like, if

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Speaker 1: you have nails like that, you know stuff.

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Speaker 2: She I think we're so focused on how decisive she is.

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Speaker 2: We don't know if that man drown When someone comes

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Speaker 2: and says, hey, what happened to my father? He drown? Okay,

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Speaker 2: that person accepted it. That's actually on the audience member

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Speaker 2: for not pressing her further on what happened.

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Speaker 1: It's not really that's the thing. Now, you with your

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Speaker 1: law experience, do you got follow up questions if someone

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Speaker 1: says something like that.

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Speaker 2: I guess I do have some follow up questions.

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Speaker 1: Okay, she's still alive, let's try it. Okay, ask me

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Speaker 1: what happened to your ex boyfriend?

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Speaker 2: Sylvia? What happened to my boyfriend? He just he went

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Speaker 2: out for a pack of cigarettes and never came back.

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Speaker 2: And I know he didn't walk out on me.

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Speaker 1: He's affagated.

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Speaker 2: That's actually all I need to know. That's actually really nice.

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Speaker 2: Why there was no follow up question because that actually

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Speaker 2: I don't need to know. That's all the closure I need.

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Speaker 2: Sylvia Brown was giving people closure. She was giving them

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Speaker 2: the n answer. Maybe it wasn't the answer, but it was.

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Speaker 1: It was something. It was something, Yeah, have you been

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Speaker 1: to psychics?

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Speaker 2: I went to a psychic with my friend when I

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Speaker 2: was like very young. I think it was like a teenager.

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Speaker 2: We were just walking by a little corner, went in

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Speaker 2: was this? This was a Manhattan? Yeah? How are you? Friend?

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Speaker 2: The village? I'm from Long Island, but I grew up

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Speaker 2: in New York.

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Speaker 1: So you know Long Island is a classic spooky place

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Speaker 1: for mediums, right, well, the Long Island Media.

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Speaker 2: An Island medium. Yes, yes, she's very.

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Speaker 1: Icon of fingernails. She I don't and that's why I'm

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Speaker 1: not good at my psychic predictions. But she's from there.

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Speaker 1: Amneville Horror on Long Island.

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Speaker 2: Oh, the Amityville horror.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Amnyville horror.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a bad one.

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Speaker 1: There's also isn't there like a scary.

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Speaker 2: There's something yeah, crops it was in like King's Park,

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Speaker 2: Long Island. There there's an asylum, like an abandoned asylum. Now, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Amityville horror, I mean, can we can get into that?

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Speaker 1: And that's something that like you know, involved a trial

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Speaker 1: and stuff because a guy killed his whole family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we still don't really know what happened, like he

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Speaker 2: seemed to me normally going crazy.

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Speaker 1: I do. I've looked into the case.

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Speaker 2: What happened? Give me the bullets.

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Speaker 1: I don't know these people. It was Ed and Lorraine Warren.

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Speaker 1: Do you know these people?

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Speaker 2: No, I mean not everyone on Long Island knows each other,

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Speaker 2: and I think some of them are dead.

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Speaker 1: Now, Okay, Ed in Lorraine Warren. In my world, they're

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Speaker 1: a big deal. And they're the ones that investigated the

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Speaker 1: Amniville horror. They're the ones that the Conjuring movies are

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Speaker 1: based on. Okay, Okay, yeah, I A'm buying it.

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Speaker 2: You're not buying it. There was nothing parental there. There

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Speaker 2: was just a guy who wanted.

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Speaker 1: Who maybe I think there was a little bit. I

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Speaker 1: think that, like with everything, it's like there's anytime you're like,

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Speaker 1: based on a true story. Please, Yeah, my lips are

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Speaker 1: based on a true story. Okay. They started as real.

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Speaker 1: I mean there, they are shaped as lips. There's been enhancements,

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Speaker 1: and that is sometimes what happens when you hear based

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Speaker 1: on true story. It starts with something real and then

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Speaker 1: things start getting crazy.

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Speaker 2: You sold the rights, I think is what happened.

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Speaker 1: I sold the rights to these lips a long time ago,

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Speaker 1: and you know what, they're making me money. Actually, because

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Speaker 1: we've done this show since the early days of radio plays,

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Speaker 1: there's always different kinds we want to do different different

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Speaker 1: things a little bit, and I was thinking it would

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Speaker 1: be so fun to look at cases where ghosts have

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Speaker 1: made their way into the courtroom.

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Speaker 2: I would love that. Yeah, yeah, I know. Not.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear your expertise. Well, let's just start

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Speaker 1: with one, and then I want to hear more about

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Speaker 1: your stories. Okay, So rancor dot Com has ten spooky

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Speaker 1: court cases involving ghosts. Love that This was written by

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Speaker 1: Jim Rowley in twenty twenty one. Okay, but so the

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Speaker 1: one case I was just thinking we could talk about

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Speaker 1: for a second. It was a case that involved the

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Speaker 1: Conjuring movies. So are you familiar?

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Speaker 2: Are you like a horror I love her, but I've

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Speaker 2: never got into the conjuring saga. That's okay because by

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Speaker 2: the time it reached me in my life, we were

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Speaker 2: on episode two thousand.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the g was the.

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Speaker 2: Reconjuring of the underbelly of the first conjuring. It was

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Speaker 2: just there were there were too many colons am persan subtitle.

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Speaker 1: Honey, if there's one problem, I deal with this, too

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Speaker 1: many colonst just gotten back from a gay cruise and

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Speaker 1: there were colons, some of them semi colons. Okay. So

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Speaker 1: the Ed Loraine Warren, this is the couple that these

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Speaker 1: movies are about, Okay, Okay, they were real people. They

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Speaker 1: you know, again, studied the Ami behore, but they studied

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Speaker 1: these cases that became the Conjuring movies. Okay. So in

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, Gerald Brittle, who's the author of the nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty book The Demonologist, which details the case files of

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Speaker 1: Ed Lorraine Warren, he sued Warner Brothers for nine hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars wow over the conjuring franchise. According to Brittle's

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Speaker 1: law suit, when he signed the agreement with Lorraine Warren

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight to write The Demonologists, it included

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Speaker 1: an exclusive non compete clause that forbade anyone from making

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Speaker 1: derivative works based on the Warren's cases without Brittle's approval.

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Speaker 1: Brittle's lawsuit also claimed that when he sent Warner Brothers

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Speaker 1: a season desist letter, the company responded that it was

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Speaker 1: basing the movie not on the Demonologist, not the book,

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Speaker 1: but one historical events WHOA. Brittle's lawsuit challenged Warner Brothers

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Speaker 1: to prove to either prove that the hauntings and the

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Speaker 1: Demonologists had really happened, or fork over nearly a billion dollars. Wow.

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Speaker 1: They ended up setting out a court.

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Speaker 2: So this happens a lot with intellectual property cases. Is

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Speaker 2: that you have to prove that the work was actually yours.

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Speaker 2: It was an idea. So like the first rule of

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Speaker 2: intellectual property law is that you have to distill it

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Speaker 2: down into some sort of physical like material, right, whether

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Speaker 2: that's recorded on some sort of drive, whether it is

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Speaker 2: a written document, you have to distill it into something tangible,

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Speaker 2: because you can't copyright or trademark an idea that's really

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Speaker 2: like the one cardinal rule. So what it sounds like

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Speaker 2: here is that they had a lot of conversations about

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Speaker 2: what the demonologist or the conjuring was going to be,

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Speaker 2: but only one of them maybe put it into writing

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Speaker 2: or maybe sold it as an actual commodity.

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Speaker 1: This was thirty six years later. Took twenty six years later.

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Speaker 2: Right after they made a bunch of money on it,

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Speaker 2: and then they threw together a lawsuit to just try

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Speaker 2: and get some of that a cut of that, and

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Speaker 2: it sounds like they settled.

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Speaker 1: They I don't think he got nine hundred million. Now

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Speaker 1: where do people come up with something like that?

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Speaker 2: They pull it together based off historic cases. There's usually

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Speaker 2: a couple different types of damage damages categories, so it'll

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Speaker 2: be like compensatory damages are damages that are owed to

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Speaker 2: you based off what you lost, and then there's punitive damages,

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Speaker 2: which are we want the next person who's thinking about

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Speaker 2: doing this to know that they can't fuck around. So

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Speaker 2: we're going to lump damages on punitive to ensure you're

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Speaker 2: going to pay, and you're going to be the story

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Speaker 2: that we tell everyone, this bitch had to pay this

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Speaker 2: much money to set the precedent so no one else

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Speaker 2: fucks around in the future because you found out.

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Speaker 1: Wow, nine nine hundred million.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they probably did it a to make headlines,

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Speaker 2: to get everyone's at pitture, and to get Warner Brothers

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Speaker 2: to actually show up in court because I'm sure they're

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Speaker 2: getting sued all the time, people are throwing lawsuits together.

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Speaker 2: They actually had to get their attention somehow, So that

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Speaker 2: is probably what I think happened there.

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Speaker 1: But something like this is also like I also know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know the exact details, but there's also like

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Speaker 1: the life rights, Like they sold their life rights I

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Speaker 1: believe to others.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's like, God, so many rights. It's like, God,

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Speaker 1: can you just make a movie about me?

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Speaker 2: But those are the life rights, that's their life story.

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Speaker 2: Is you're selling with the.

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Speaker 1: Life I know. But then it's like okay, but then

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Speaker 1: this guy wrote a book about us, and now it's

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Speaker 1: like sorry.

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Speaker 2: It's true. At a certain point you become a public

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Speaker 2: figure and people can just start writing biographies about you.

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Speaker 2: They don't necessarily read the rights, right, So like we

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Speaker 2: have the unofficial Madonna Yes Cookbook or whatever, Right, so uh, like,

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Speaker 2: is that Sylvia Brown book behind you? Even? Like did

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Speaker 2: she sell those rights? From beyond the Grave?

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Speaker 1: Well, I am planning on doing a biopic of Sylvia

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Speaker 1: Brown Temples. On the other side, how wisdom from beyond

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Speaker 1: the can help you?

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Speaker 2: Right now?

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Speaker 1: The number one New York Times best selling author, like.

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Speaker 2: The number one Halloween costume this year?

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Speaker 1: Oh was she?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Sylvia Brown's out at the club.

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Speaker 1: Good for her. Okay, tell me your ghost stories or

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Speaker 1: your paranormal experiences.

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Speaker 2: Okay. It was a crazy time in my life. I was,

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Speaker 2: I want to say, like nineteen or twenty maybe twenty one,

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Speaker 2: and I was I don't want to say promiscuous. I

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Speaker 2: would just say busy. I had dated a lot. I

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Speaker 2: had plenty of like not plenty of.

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Speaker 1: Twenty one in your neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: I was taking out the garbage and meeting mister Henderson

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Speaker 2: goooner twenty one in the neighborhood. And I don't know,

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Speaker 2: this is in New York. This is in New York.

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Speaker 2: And I, you know, was dating. I was nineteen twenty.

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Speaker 2: You're dating, you're not really like seeing anyone. You don't

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Speaker 2: have a boyfriend. There's like nothing like that. Sure, but

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Speaker 2: at the time, I started seeing this guy who was

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Speaker 2: much older than me. He was deep into his forties

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Speaker 2: and he was very wealthy. He was worked in one

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Speaker 2: of the major banks. I would say, he's pretty high

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Speaker 2: up at one of these major banks, and he's I

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Speaker 2: think he's still there because he is on social Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so he was a really big deal even back then.

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Speaker 2: And this is I'm thirty seven now, so this is

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Speaker 2: at least fifteen years ago. So I started dating this

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Speaker 2: guy we'll call him Gooner twenty one, okay, And it

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Speaker 2: wasn't I wasn't being paid to date him, I want

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Speaker 2: to be clear about that. But I was receiving financial benefits, right,

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Speaker 2: like rent or a place to stay, okay, gifts and

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Speaker 2: stuff like that, you know, like it was what it

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Speaker 2: was for you. And I really liked him. Like this

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Speaker 2: wasn't like, oh I like this guy because he's paying

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Speaker 2: for stuff, for giving me gifts or has money or

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Speaker 2: taking me out. I really liked him. And that was honestly, why.

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Speaker 1: If you yeah, you don't have to tell us.

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Speaker 2: We get it nowadays. The situationship, Yeah, we've all been there, Yeah, situationship.

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Speaker 1: And I was broke.

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Speaker 2: I was waiting tables, I had no money, And I

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Speaker 2: hope that people who know me and watch my show

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Speaker 2: know that I would tell you if I really was

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Speaker 2: just there for the money, because I would, I would

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Speaker 2: tell you I'm not scared.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's the best if it's not some crypt

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Speaker 1: keeper coming out that you have to be like, oh.

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Speaker 2: God, living dead. Yes, yeah, yeah, Freddy Krueger.

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Speaker 1: Time to pay off my debts.

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Speaker 2: And he's got the Freddy Kirker nails. No, nothing like that,

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Speaker 2: very handsome, lovely investment banker. So he goes out to

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Speaker 2: the Hampton's for the summer and he has a I

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Speaker 2: will this. I was aware of this. He did have

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Speaker 2: a whole family, a wife and kids.

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Speaker 1: Did they know about you or like, no, you do families?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well I and his family. I was just some

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Speaker 2: guy he was hooking up with.

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Speaker 1: As queer people, we get to choose our families. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the two of you are a family.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know what you You've lived in New York,

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Speaker 2: so you know that.

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Speaker 1: They have just temporarily every time I visit.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So the Hamptons are like a couple hours outside

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Speaker 2: of Sace. You could take a train, you could take

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Speaker 2: a bus. Some people fly if you're really wealthy, and so.

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Speaker 1: Where were was his family in the city.

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Speaker 2: Both, so people sort of go back and forth all

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Speaker 2: summer to the Hampton. So he would go out to

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Speaker 2: the Hamptons and he would for the summer, and he

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Speaker 2: would put me up at like a shitty motel down

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Speaker 2: the street.

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Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you get you a good place?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. And I thought about this before talking

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Speaker 2: to today. I thought about, like, wait, why was I

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Speaker 2: staying at like the Montalk motel.

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Speaker 1: That's so weird.

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Speaker 2: But at the time, I wasn't really aware nor gave

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Speaker 2: a shit, Like I was like, oh, I'm here to

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Speaker 2: see him and this is the hotel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 2: I was just you're when you're young, you just don't

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Speaker 2: really like think about it.

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Speaker 1: Sure, and it's all free, Like if it's free.

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Speaker 2: It's all free. And I hadn't been staying really nice

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Speaker 2: hotels before that, so it wasn't like, yeah, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is so much shittier than what the hotels used

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Speaker 2: to staying out with my other boyfriend, mister City Bank.

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Speaker 2: Like no, I was like, oh, okay, this is the

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Speaker 2: thing and this is the place, and I am here,

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Speaker 2: you know, I just didn't really think about it. I

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Speaker 2: was kind of a dumb bitch. So one night in

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Speaker 2: this motel, I'm in bed and I don't know how

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Speaker 2: to describe it, but I'll do my best. At some

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Speaker 2: point and he's not there, I'm alone because we're meeting.

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Speaker 2: The next day, something moved me in the bed physically,

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Speaker 2: and I woke up and I couldn't move. It was

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Speaker 2: the middle of the night i'd gone to bed. I

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Speaker 2: was drinking a lot and doing drugs back then, but

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure I was sober that night. I was

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Speaker 2: probably exhausted, like I never I didn't really see either way.

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Speaker 1: You drink and do a little drugs, you don't just

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Speaker 1: like get physically moved.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I remember waking up and being like, why

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Speaker 2: am I moving right now? Like this is not in

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Speaker 2: my own volition.

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Speaker 1: But what do you mean by that? Like how much movement?

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Speaker 2: I sifting in bed? Sort of like if you're looking

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Speaker 2: down at the bed counterclockwise, So my head's starting to

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Speaker 2: move towards the right side of the bed involuntarily. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: my legs are swinging to the left bed.

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Speaker 1: That takes crazy physicality, and you would feel it if

437
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 1: you were doing that with your own muscles.

438
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 2: And I couldn't stop it, Like I wasn't able to

439
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 2: be like I'm going to get up and go to

440
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 2: the bathroom. Now I was like unable to move but

441
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 2: also moving so I didn't have control over my body,

442
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: which was like kind of terrifying. Whatever this was did

443
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: turn me all the way to the other end of

444
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 2: the bed. My head by the end of the thirty

445
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 2: seconds was at the foot of the bed, and then

446
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 2: it just stopped and I was able to move with

447
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 2: my feet on the pillow. Now, it was fucking crazy.

448
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 1: What do you think that was?

449
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 2: I think it was a ghost in the motel, the

450
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 2: mon Talk motel or something like it was. It was deaf,

451
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 2: definite least some sort of spirit like there was no voices.

452
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 2: I didn't see anything. I could open my eyes and

453
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 2: look around. I think part way through being shifted, I

454
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 2: closed my eyes because I was terrified.

455
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, I think it was his wife.

456
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: She had me on wires.

457
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think she was puppeteering you.

458
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 2: So that's not the end of the story.

459
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: Okay, good, thank god? She said, who booked this guy?

460
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: She doesn't even read asparagus? Why did we book him?

461
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 1: Who is this guy, you got to get into.

462
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: I was doing a little of sparamouncing in that motel.

463
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: I bet.

464
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 2: Okay, So, I would say within a couple months, maybe

465
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 2: over the course of the next year, I started having

466
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 2: recurring dreams and I was I was traveling. So I

467
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: eventually went to law school in New Orleans. I was

468
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: having the dreams there. But haunted, yes, and I did.

469
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 2: I lived in like a very haunted house in New Orleans. Okay, good,

470
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 2: and it was from it was like a three hundred

471
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 2: year old building. But I would have these dreams of

472
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 2: a sort of just like figure of a man standing

473
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 2: over my bed. It happened, I would say, probably at

474
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: least three, no more than five times.

475
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: Do you know about sleep paralysis? Not really, no, Okay.

476
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: The thing I always say about this is I think

477
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: that there's there's definitely a world in which it could

478
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: be both scientifically explained and paranormal at the same time.

479
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 2: Okay, but it bisexual exactly.

480
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 1: I do think that sleep preussis is by So it's

481
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: a thing that happens to a lot of people where

482
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: you freeze, and a lot of times, you know, you

483
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: wake up your body can't move, and a lot of

484
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: times people hallucinate, particularly like a male figure or interesting

485
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: guy with a hat on the hat man, the hat man, yeah,

486
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: very big, yeah, demons, you know whatever.

487
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it could have been that. And it was

488
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 2: happening out of time in my life when I did

489
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: have a really bad drinking problem and I was like

490
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 2: really abusing my body and I wasn't sleeping, and I

491
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: was in law school and I was very depressed.

492
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: See that's all the stuff that a demon is looking for.

493
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm kind of like whatever about my belief

494
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: in demons? Sure, I think so whatever. I don't think

495
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: there's commons. We all think, but I think that darkness

496
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: is attracted to low frequency, low vibration, like depression.

497
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: This was definitely like the low frequency moment in my life.

498
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 2: And I was in sort of like the global capital

499
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: of demonology. I was in New Orleans. Like everything there

500
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: is so you just like kind of feel the history

501
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: when you're walking down the street there, even if it's

502
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: just this place that has so much running through it.

503
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 2: So I kept having those dreams. And I'd been going

504
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: to acupuncture throughout this period in my life, and it

505
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: was to help with my anxiety and like these panic

506
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: attacks and ultimately to help me stop abusing you know,

507
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 2: alcohol and pills and stuff. So I'm at acupuncture one

508
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 2: day and I got to know her pretty well, Like

509
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: we were pretty close, and I had seen her a

510
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 2: bunch and she had never ever talked about spirits or

511
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: anything like that. Like it was always one of the

512
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 2: more medical cerebral acupuncturists, right because there's a lot of

513
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: wou Wu acupuncture out there. She was a very like

514
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 2: logical cerebral person. So she's doing something on me with

515
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: a needle and she's like, Hey, can I just ask

516
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 2: you like a weird question? I was like, yeah, sure,

517
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 2: I mean we talked about everything. I mean, I'm in

518
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 2: a medical gown. You don't have to like ask, like

519
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: we're already it's very intimate. And she's like, have you

520
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 2: even having like a weird dream lately? And I was like, well,

521
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: what do you mean? Because I'm also pretty skeptical, like

522
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: I'm not like immediately buying into this stuff. I'm like,

523
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? And she's like, is there

524
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 2: like a guy that you keep seeing in your dreams?

525
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 2: And you know when you you're sort of half remembering.

526
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: So I would wake up and I wouldn't be like

527
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 2: the man was in my dream again. I'd be like,

528
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 2: oh yeah, okay, and then I'd go get coffee and

529
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 2: life would kind of start. It wasn't haunting me through

530
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 2: the day, but when she brought that up, it did

531
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: kind of bring me back to that twilight rem part

532
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: of my brain activated it, and I was like, oh

533
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: my god, yeah, I kind of have been having a

534
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 2: dream about some guy. She's like, sorry not to do

535
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 2: this to you, but like he's here right now.

536
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: And I was like, bitch, what who's paying for his acupuncture?

537
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: Thank you? Is this a cope? Is he a dependent?

538
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 2: How does that work? So I was like, could you

539
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 2: tell me what are you talking about? Lauren? Her name

540
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: is Lauren and she's great. Love her shout out to Lauren.

541
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: I was like okay, and she was like, he's talking

542
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 2: about you, Like he's just kind of like talking to me.

543
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: Do you mind if I tell you what he's saying?

544
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, sure, bitch, what Like it

545
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 2: was freaky because she had.

546
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: Never pulled in anything like that so random.

547
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 2: I wasn't that a psychic it was more of like

548
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: a medical context. Yeah, So I was just not ready

549
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 2: for it. So I was like, sure, let's see where

550
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: this goes. Crazy, lady.

551
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: Well, and it's also like, okay, you're smart. You know how,

552
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: you know how the body works. You're you're not supposed

553
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: to believe in this stuff. You're really smart.

554
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: Right where the medical issue was, she was like putting

555
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: the needle in there. She wasn't doing it like on

556
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,239
Speaker 2: my leg to help with my neck. It was very

557
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 2: much a a to B causal person logic, right, We're

558
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: dealing with a very logic.

559
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, she says, there's an

560
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: invisible man here. He's talking to you.

561
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: She said, he's right next to you. Right now.

562
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: I would have ripped the needles out and rand.

563
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: So I was like okay, and it is a safe environment.

564
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 2: I felt very safe there, so I didn't run for it.

565
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 2: And she was like, yeah, he's just kind of like

566
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: this brassy New Yorker guy. He's older, he's like in

567
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: the sixties.

568
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: He knows you have a type, just saying it was

569
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: the monopoly man thought he could get in there.

570
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: Maybe he said pass go honey, you.

571
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: Say, you just haven't met me yet.

572
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: And so we she starts to kind of just tell

573
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: me what he's saying, and she said that he's been

574
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 2: following you around for a while now. He's the soldier

575
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: guy in his sixties, he's a New Yorker, he's kind

576
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 2: of got this thick New York accent, and he's just

577
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: kind of here for you. She's like, he's really right here.

578
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 2: He's just kind of like yapping while I'm talking to you.

579
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 2: So she was kind of distracted, and she's like, yeah,

580
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: like this does kind of happen, like every now and

581
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 2: then someone will just kind of like start talking to her.

582
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: She told me that this has happened a few times

583
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: in her life where wow, someone comes in like with

584
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: baggage and she's like, yeah, he's been liking your dreams

585
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 2: a little bit, and he just says that he's your guide.

586
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 2: He's just kind of like here just following you around,

587
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: like if you ever need him, He's like he's here

588
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 2: for you. And that was really it, Like that was

589
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: the message.

590
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: Uh huh.

591
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: I was like thank you, Yeah, tell them, I said thanks.

592
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: Like were you like Ye're like, were you okay with this? Now?

593
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: I was just kind of like, this is the weirdest

594
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: thing that's ever happened to me. And she was like

595
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: if you don't believe me, just put your arm out

596
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: like this. I'm not kidding, she said, just put your

597
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 2: arm out.

598
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: What happened?

599
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 2: This sounds you guys have to you have to understand people.

600
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: Those in this podcast understand.

601
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 2: They understand that I am not this person. I don't

602
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 2: do astrology. I don't care about that. I don't. I

603
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: really am a non believer. Yeah, but I put my

604
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 2: arm out, and it truly was at least ten degrees

605
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: colder just to my right. And that really that was

606
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 2: for me where I was like, Okay, this person is

607
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 2: not lying. There's no vent, there's no draft. It was

608
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: the middle of the summer. Like, she's not fucking with me.

609
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: This person takes at nut and insurance.

610
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: There's no way I was in New Orleans this past

611
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: summer if I had a freezing cold man following me around,

612
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: that would have been great. Yeah, it's sticky, it's.

613
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was it. Maybe that's why he was there

614
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: for air conditioning.

615
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: That's sweet.

616
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

617
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: Now when you were seeing him in your dreams, did

618
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: it look like a sixty year old New Yorker guy?

619
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: It was just the outline of a person. Oh okay,

620
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: it was just sort of like a shadow figure, which

621
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 2: is why, like I think probably the sleep paralysis is possible, right,

622
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 2: Like we can walk and chew gum, we can hold

623
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 2: two things in our hand, right, like it can be both.

624
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: But I just sort of took it as like good

625
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: to know, Like thanks for letting me know. I never

626
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: saw him again in a dream. Really he really just

627
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: I think wanted me to know. And then he was

628
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: like I'm out, good luck, honey.

629
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: See. And what I think about was stuff like this

630
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: is like, Okay, we're all going to die one day.

631
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: Am I going to be following around a nineteen years

632
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: in New Orleans?

633
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: Yeah? Was it like a Mary Poppin situation? Like he

634
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: was onto the next twin?

635
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, how does this work?

636
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, like what are the rules?

637
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: But he was there.

638
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 2: I mean I abbreviated the conversation, but she did for

639
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 2: a little bit. She was like, yeah, he's kind of

640
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: saying this, and he's kind of saying that. And similar

641
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 2: to my dreams, after I left that appointment, it kind

642
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 2: of got filed away and subconscious. It wasn't like I

643
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: walked around all day being like, oh, buckle up, passenger seat,

644
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 2: got my ghost with me?

645
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: Sure?

646
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 2: It was like, oh, okay, yeah, maybe if I'm a

647
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 2: little high, or if I haven't slept, or I'm still

648
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 2: in twilight sleep, I'll remember this acupunctural appointment. And I

649
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 2: think even for her, I continued to see her for

650
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: many years after that, she never really brought it up again. Really,

651
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 2: I never really brought it up again. We just kind

652
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 2: of like moved on. It seemed like for her it

653
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I have to read this form before

654
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: we start. Well, you'd have to sign the release. It

655
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 2: was a little bit like that, which is why it

656
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 2: felt so real because I wasn't in front of a psychic.

657
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: I wasn't.

658
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: She wasn't like, okay, that would It'll be fifty bucks extra.

659
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 2: She wasn't wearing a turban at the train station with

660
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 2: a crystal ball. It was she was like, hey, yeah,

661
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 2: just like FYI like this is what's going on. It

662
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:16,919
Speaker 2: was part of the treatment plan.

663
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: That's incredible.

664
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 2: It was really And I wasn't spooked like I thought

665
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 2: of my grandfather. I don't know if it was him.

666
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 2: He never said it was him, but my grandfather did

667
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 2: die when I was like nine or ten, and so

668
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 2: I never never really knew him as an adult right,

669
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 2: and he was a brassy New Yorker, like an older

670
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,479
Speaker 2: man in his sixties. Like, that's the only person from

671
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 2: my life who I know is dead who could possibly

672
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 2: have been I guess like following me around in what

673
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 2: was a really dark part of my life, like no,

674
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 2: Tino Shade, Like it was really fun, but I wasn't

675
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: dating older guys and like getting into these situationships with

676
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 2: married men because I was like happy with my right right,

677
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 2: because I was like on a path of righteousness, Like

678
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: I was figuring my shit out in a really messy

679
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 2: way and ended up in a lot of complicated relationships.

680
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 2: So I the notion that my grandfather was like, hey, honey,

681
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: maybe get your act together.

682
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: That's so sweet.

683
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 2: It was kind of cute.

684
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: I had a messy like early twenties for sure.

685
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 2: Tell me more about that.

686
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: Well, I'm eleven years sober for a reason. Wow, that Lucian,

687
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: thank you. But I do think like I gotta have

688
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: some good guardian angels or something.

689
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some someone. Yeah, it's it sometimes ends up

690
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 2: too perfectly, works out so well for it to completely

691
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 2: be chanced. Sometimes. Yeah, so that is where I get

692
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 2: a little bit hippy tippy woo woo. I get a

693
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: little in the in the sauce, but yeah, yeah, it

694
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 2: sometimes does work out in an incredible way. Like after that,

695
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: I don't want to say that I left that appointment

696
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 2: and I was I was healed. It was on the

697
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 2: path I found the more.

698
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: No, but she stored it away and it became a

699
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: great podcast story years later. You said, I don't know

700
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 1: when I'm going to use this.

701
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: But I told anyone this story, like, I don't. I

702
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 2: really don't, because I mean, yeah, most people in my

703
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: life don't really like know me as someone who would

704
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: really believe.

705
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,919
Speaker 1: That's what makes it so good. Some of these people

706
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: are like, and then this happened to me, You're like,

707
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: but I will say that, like the first experience in

708
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: bed of being like twirled, I mean that was him

709
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 1: or someone else I think that might have been that.

710
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 2: Does that feels like kind of like a messy girl

711
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 2: would do that, like the mean sorority girl who like

712
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 2: odd in that room, you know what I mean? Like

713
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 2: that doesn't feel like an older gentleman who is going

714
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 2: to cure my dreams and be my guide would be

715
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 2: what doing a round off back handspring in the mon

716
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: talk motel, Like that's kind of weird, like it just

717
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: doesn't align.

718
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: But also I think about like day one as a

719
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: ghost or like you're new to this, Like you're new

720
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: to this assignment and you're like.

721
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 2: What are you ready with me to haunt this diva?

722
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: Like yes, honey, but it's like what what am I

723
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 1: capable of doing? Like can I like move some Oh?

724
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: I can? That's crazy. Okay, Now I'm gonna try dreams.

725
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,399
Speaker 1: That'll be fun, you know what I mean?

726
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: Look at this twink, Let me try and turn him

727
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:21,479
Speaker 2: over in bed.

728
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

729
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely, do people come on to talk about like sex

730
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: with ghosts? Didn't? Who was it? Was Itole Smith or

731
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: Courtney Loves Yes, someone said they.

732
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: Banged oh the credible celebrities sources a lot. Yes, a

733
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 1: lot of celebrities have talked about it. We've only had

734
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: a few occurrences that have been shared on the show.

735
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: I'm definitely open to more interesting if anybody listening wants

736
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: to share your story of having sex with a ghost

737
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: email ghosted by ras at gmail dot com. But the

738
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: at least two experiences I can think of that have

739
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: been shared the show have been very positive. Interesting because

740
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: I'm always like there's like weird consentive stuff.

741
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 2: They finished.

742
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it wow otherworldly from what I heard.

743
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 2: Got your back blown out by a Oh damn, that's hot.

744
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: Put that in the grinder, bio. Put that that is

745
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 2: like your opener. Yeah not hay you up. Hey. I

746
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: have transcended the realm.

747
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I don't even know where you go from there,

748
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: like back to a sentient being.

749
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't go back to the rabbit toy? Now

750
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 2: are you going to do the rosebud toy after that?

751
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 2: But this I doesn't think so, honey.

752
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: This is what these people say. They say it's great,

753
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,439
Speaker 1: but I'm always asking myself for everyone else, like there's

754
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: a weird consent thing here, you know, like how does

755
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: they can't just start? You can't just start fucking me?

756
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 1: And I can't see you, I know. Yeah, but there

757
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: are these experiences people report where they're like, Okay, I'm

758
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 1: just gonna go with it. Do you think that, like

759
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: maybe that's what was happening to you in the bed?

760
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 2: Maybe I was freaked out though, so the content was

761
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 2: not there.

762
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: That's the thing. It's like it's just over me.

763
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 2: A little bit. I guess for me, we're speaking in hypotheticals. Now,

764
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: if a ghost started to move me and I could move,

765
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 2: and then something freaky started happening, I might explore it.

766
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: Okay, because I.

767
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 2: Can move, right, I couldn't move, which is why maybe

768
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 2: it was sleepingss that's not fair. Yeah, I was like, no,

769
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 2: that's not my kink.

770
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's not fair.

771
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: Like if I have agency and where let me explore

772
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 2: your other worldly body.

773
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. I haven't gotten to the point yet, but there

774
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 1: are likes blogs you can read that are like, here's

775
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: how you can make this happen, or like we talked

776
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: about haunted dolls on this podcast, and like there's a

777
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: lot of them that are like, you buy this doll

778
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 1: and you'll just start, but.

779
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 2: You're just going to be sopping slide off your chair.

780
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: I'm not there yet, No, but you should try it.

781
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: It's coming one day.

782
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 2: We could would you film it? No? Wow, I'm just

783
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: saying that would do numbers on OnlyFans retire early.

784
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure people would believe me. I'm like spiritual

785
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 1: gooner speaking of let me show you a haunted eBay doll.

786
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: This is crazy because I'm looking at the time and

787
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: I thought, by now we would have talked about like

788
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: at least nine other famous cases of ghosts. But we're

789
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,879
Speaker 1: running a time makes it's so easy. You know what,

790
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: No doll this episode just because we got you here

791
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: and you are a legal expert and I want to

792
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: know your thoughts on this.

793
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: On the on the extra judiciary hauntings of.

794
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: Extra Yeah, okay, let me just throw some at you here.

795
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: So this is a big one. New York City, early

796
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, there were real estate developers named Jeffrey and

797
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: Patrese Stambowski, don't know them. They purchased a home in

798
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 1: Nyak Nyak.

799
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: That's a long island.

800
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, and it belonged to Helen Ackley Okay. So

801
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: the Stambovskis were unaware that the house had a long

802
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: reputation for being haunted, despite the fact that Aclee had

803
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: published accounts of the ghostly occurrences three times between nineteen

804
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: seventy seven and nineteen eighty nine, Wow, including once in

805
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: readers Digest. So this lady wanted everyone to know that

806
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 1: she's got a haunted house. According to Aclee, the house

807
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: was inhabited by three ghosts. A naval lieutenant from the

808
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: American Revolutionary War and a couple from the nineteenth century,

809
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: but Aclee never told the Stambovski's about the hauntings. When

810
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: they discovered the house's history, the Stambovskis sued Acly for

811
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: fraudulent misrepresentation and asked for the contract to be rescinded.

812
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety one, the New York Supreme Court heard

813
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: an appeal of the case. The court ruled that Actly

814
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: wasn't liable for damages, but also decided that because a

815
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: haunting can't be determined by a home inspection, the Stambovskis

816
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: didn't have to honor the contract either. Many people have

817
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: called this the ghostbuster ruling.

818
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 2: Okay, let me just like read the fact pattern really

819
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: quick so I make sure I understand that.

820
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: Ah. Now, this is something I have talked to like

821
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: real estate people about where I think they call it

822
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: like stigmatized property or something where it's like if you

823
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: buy the house from breaking Bad, you do have to

824
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: know that that's like the house from breaking bad. You

825
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,479
Speaker 1: will have people take pictures of it all the time.

826
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 1: People know about it. There's going to be people trying

827
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: to go in your property.

828
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 2: Right like the Sex and the City Townhouse in New

829
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 2: York City right now, there's always tourist lined up out front,

830
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: and the owners get really annoyed and upset because people

831
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 2: will like like climb over the rope and go up

832
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: the steps. But with this case, what's interesting is that

833
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: she was really public and open about how haunted it was.

834
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 2: She published three articles, So like, that's kind of curious

835
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: to me, is like, you're not doing your due diligence

836
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 2: as a purchaser of what is going on with this house?

837
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: Like this is ninety nine, you can't just google the

838
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: address you'd have? Nowadays you can for sure you just

839
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: google the address.

840
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 2: How do people google in the nineties? Can we get

841
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 2: a check on that?

842
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: Like, I don't wait a second, what would they to

843
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 1: answer questions for us?

844
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 2: Sorry? You know what would they? Would they go to

845
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 2: the library and just say can you google this? Like how? Yeah?

846
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: Like microphies or whatever? Yeah, huh yeah, that's that's in

847
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: the comments and tell us let us know, I have

848
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,399
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one. What would you have done to find

849
00:43:58,400 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 1: out if your house was haunted?

850
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? What's like the analog Google?

851
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: But that's I don't know whose side I'm on with this.

852
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: I do think like girl you weren't too shy about it.

853
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: I think you should probably tell people just so you know. Fun,

854
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: fun little fact about this.

855
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: You don't get to be shy only when it suits

856
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 2: your pocketbook, thank you. Like she was selling all those articles,

857
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 2: making her money, telling everyone the shit was haunted. Yeah,

858
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 2: trying to get some attention. And now someone finds out

859
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: in the middle of a purchase. I don't think. And

860
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 2: if I was buying a house, putting all that money

861
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 2: down and I found out halfway through that it was haunted,

862
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: like really haunted by three people, not just one.

863
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: But this is why I ask every apartment I've ever had,

864
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: I say to landlord, this is going to sound crazy,

865
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: and if you google me, you're gonna see that understanding.

866
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: You'll understand. Has anyone ever died here? Is this place haunted?

867
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: And are they all honest with you? I don't think

868
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 2: they have to.

869
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: Literally, my current landlord was like what, and I was like,

870
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: forget it, I'll find out. I'll find out for myself.

871
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 1: But okay, interesting, I do think.

872
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 2: You got to contro spirit to fuck you if your

873
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 2: house isn't haunted, yeah, don't ask.

874
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: So there's actually like there's other cases where like people

875
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: didn't they weren't told and they found out that it's haunted.

876
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: Like that's I would think that's probably more common maybe.

877
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, Like I know in certain states you have

878
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 2: to disclose if someone died in the.

879
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: Home, right, and and it's different different places, and I

880
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: think it's like there is like a kind of a

881
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: statute of limitations or yes, if.

882
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: It's like within a certain number of years someone's died

883
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 2: in the house where it's going up for sale, they

884
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 2: have to disclose.

885
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: Because that's kind of my question with this case we

886
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: just talked about, is like how did they find out

887
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: it was haunted?

888
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 2: This woman was just sort of telling ever and then

889
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 2: they bought it in halfway through they found out? Was

890
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: it the article or were they on a tour and

891
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,359
Speaker 2: they got tripped? Yeah? Did that couple? Were they looking

892
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 2: for a third? Like, we don't know what happened with

893
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 2: that couple that died in there. How does a couple

894
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 2: end up dying in the house? Right? Was it at

895
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 2: the same time?

896
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: Oh, that's scary?

897
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 2: Was that it? It was it a murder? Suy? Was it? Like?

898
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 2: What happened to that couple?

899
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 1: Seriously?

900
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 2: That's spooky. Dookie, I don't like that. And an old

901
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 2: home in Nyac that's haunted by three people. I'm not

902
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 2: buying that new construction only.

903
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 1: So this other case in two thousand and five, Great year,

904
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, I.

905
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 2: Love about you, were like the Bush administration love.

906
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 1: Honestly, I will take that. At this point, we didn't

907
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: know how bad.

908
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 2: People were really thirsting after the good old days of GW.

909
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: I mean, he was a little quirky and maybe he.

910
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 2: Had his little paintings choked on a pretzel one, but like, you.

911
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: Know, maybe a war criminal, but you know, he was

912
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 1: fun other than that. So two thousand and five, Great Music,

913
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: Great Movies. The landlords who operated the historic Church Street

914
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 1: train station and entertainment complex in Orlando, Florida, filed a

915
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: two point six million dollar lawsuit against two restaurant owners

916
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: who refused to move into the property after learning that

917
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,240
Speaker 1: it was allegedly haunted.

918
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: Wow.

919
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: Second, so they were trying to get these restaurant owners

920
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: to open up business in this place, and then they

921
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: were like, no, it's haunted. I don't want to how

922
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: they sued him, I don't understand.

923
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 2: This, let me read it. In two thousand and five,

924
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 2: the landlords who operated the Church Street train station complex

925
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,919
Speaker 2: in Orlando, filed a lawsuit against two restaurants who were Okay,

926
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 2: so they're just refusing to move into the property because

927
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: they found out it was allegedly haunted.

928
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,959
Speaker 1: Well, why would they need to They must have signed

929
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: a contract or something, right.

930
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: So they had some sort of lease or agreement, and

931
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 2: then they were like, actually, a ton, we don't want

932
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 2: to fuck around in my place. According to lawyers for

933
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 2: the restaurants, the owners were Jehovah witnesses whose religious beliefs

934
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 2: prevented them from having any contact with undead spirits. That

935
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 2: is a lawyer's argument, because what the lawyer's doing here

936
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 2: is basically invoking the First Amendment and saying that their

937
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 2: First Amendment religious beliefs bar them from following through on

938
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: this contract. Oh please, this could have been totally made up.

939
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 2: I call bullshit.

940
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: So they could have just been like, it's haunted, I

941
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: swear and against my religion. They just didn't have the money.

942
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 2: Exactly, They just didn't want to go through with it.

943
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 2: I call bullshit. According to the landlord's attorneys, I asked

944
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 2: them if these were good ghosts or bad ghosts, and

945
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: if they were good ghosts. Why it was a problem.

946
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: Is that the person from this website.

947
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 2: No no, no, no no, that is one of the attorneys. That's

948
00:48:54,600 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 2: one of the attorneys council. That's the argument. Local news sources.

949
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: I love Florida, this is great.

950
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 2: Local news sources didn't report on a financial settlement or

951
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 2: other resolution for the suit. It's just kind of left

952
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 2: hanging like no one No one was even like this

953
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 2: warrants a settlement. No one's even try it.

954
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: Crazy.

955
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 2: This was just I don't feel like following through on

956
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 2: my lease. I'm just gonna say I'm a Jehovah and

957
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 2: it's haunted. You know.

958
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 1: There's okay, we don't have to get into all these cases,

959
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: but there are some where it's like people that sued

960
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: God or the devil or the devil. Yeah, they sued

961
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: both of them. Didn't didn't go anywhere. And then another

962
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: thing that I noticed in some of these stories because

963
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: I went to like various different websites. Right now, I'm

964
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: just staying at this Ranker website, but there were also

965
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: cases of people who, like through a Ouiji board, contacted

966
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 1: someone and then wrote a book with what the ghost

967
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: told them, and then the family family sued. Was like,

968
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 1: wait a minute, you can't like we own the rights.

969
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 2: Or even if even if you got the information through

970
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 2: the Ouiji board, it's still that person's life rights that

971
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: you don't have the rights to that you're now writing

972
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 2: the book on. You can write the book on your

973
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: experience with the Wiji board.

974
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: I mean, can't you just like not say where you

975
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: got the details from.

976
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 2: But then you're that's actually worse because now you're just

977
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 2: stealing that person's story.

978
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: Okay, but can you get sued for it?

979
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't have the life rights. You've got to

980
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 2: have that person.

981
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. Okay, let's just say hypothetically, I conjure

982
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: up the spirit of Joan Rivers and she starts writing

983
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: jokes for me. Okay, and I don't ever have to

984
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: tell anyone, and I can just use.

985
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 2: Oh that's the things. Yeah. Second, you say, Joan Rivers,

986
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 2: Melissa is going to be outside your house with a shive.

987
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 1: Yes, she will.

988
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 2: She's gonna There's no world in which a single Joan

989
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 2: Rivers joke is being written and told posthumously. Where Melissa

990
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 2: and getting a cut. I'll tell you that right now, honey.

991
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 1: Okay, Wait, So let's just do this last one. There

992
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: is a Mark Twain one that's like that interesting. Yeah, okay, okay,

993
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: Well tell me more.

994
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 2: It's your show, Okay, direct me.

995
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: Okay. So in nineteen seventeen, two psychic mediums, Emily Grant

996
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: Hutchings and low le V Hayes, published a book that

997
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: they said was written post you.

998
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: Miss.

999
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: I can never say that.

1000
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 2: Was okay, it's annoying post postume postume's I say, I'm

1001
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 2: from Long Island, so that makes me think of pasta.

1002
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 2: So I had really good pasta last night at Jones.

1003
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: At Jones, Yeah, in West Hollywood. I had that. It

1004
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 2: was the spaghetti with meat balls and the skillet. Highly recommend. Okay, okay,

1005
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,439
Speaker 2: back to the story. Back to the story.

1006
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: Posthumously billion dollar idea. Gee, how you're gonna have to

1007
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: cut this? A pasta restaurant and each pasta dish I

1008
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: get the recipe. I'm a weechio board.

1009
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 2: Does she have to cut this?

1010
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: Because I don't want anyone stealing this legal legal advice?

1011
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,000
Speaker 1: Should I keep it in because then it makes it

1012
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: sound like I can always come back to this and

1013
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: I can say I came up with posthumous.

1014
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 2: I agree, yeah, this is good to practice in California though,

1015
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,879
Speaker 2: So this is for entertainment purposes only.

1016
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: Okay, posthumous posthumous, posthumous.

1017
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 2: No, that was just me saying pasta.

1018
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: I just wanted to say pasta, miss pasta posthumous. I

1019
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: am completely sectual when it comes to pasta.

1020
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 2: I'll put anything in my mouth.

1021
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: But do you get what I'm saying. So basically, I

1022
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: get the recipes.

1023
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 2: I get a recipe from a Oiji board, make it,

1024
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 2: sell it at your restaurant called postumus posthumous.

1025
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: That's hot, and that's fun because some people can be like,

1026
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: oh I want the Mark Twain RIGATONI.

1027
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 2: Or they're like, my grandma spoke to you and I

1028
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 2: want to taste her putnesca once more. That's one way

1029
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 2: to pass on a recipe.

1030
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: Well, maybe I shouldn't do Mark Twain because maybe his

1031
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: estate will assume me. So he died in nineteen ten,

1032
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 1: so this is nineteen seventeen, so we're only talking seven years.

1033
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:17,359
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the body's not even cold yet.

1034
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 1: So these mediums, they write this novel and they spent

1035
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: two years transcribing it through Ouiji word. That's a long

1036
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 1: time each letter. I mean let the girls make their money.

1037
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 1: That's all you RelA.

1038
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 2: They committed to the bit.

1039
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 1: So the story is set in a small Missouri town.

1040
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: Who cares?

1041
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: So Twain and Hutchings the second your said Missouri, you

1042
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 2: were like, fuck this.

1043
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: I don't care. Twain and one of the psychics they

1044
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: had corresponded fifteen years before the book was published, and

1045
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: in one of his letters, Twain made a note to

1046
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: himself that read idiot must preserve. So maybe he had

1047
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: pitched the idea of this book while he was still alive. Okay,

1048
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: at the time, publishing books that were supposedly written by

1049
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 1: ghosts was a relatively common phenomenon.

1050
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 2: What I've never heard of that.

1051
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,959
Speaker 1: A New York Times review of the novel noted three

1052
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: similar books had come to print recently. Okay, hack okay. However,

1053
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,359
Speaker 1: the year after the book was published, Twain's daughter, Kara Clemens,

1054
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:28,280
Speaker 1: sued Hutchings and Hayes to prevent the book from being published.

1055
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 1: The two authors agreed to cease publication and destroyed all

1056
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 1: existing copies.

1057
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 2: They destroyed it.

1058
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 1: See now I can understand if you're using the Mark

1059
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: Twain name to sell books. That is yeah, I mean, but.

1060
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:44,959
Speaker 2: They got the information from a Wiji board.

1061
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, used that as your hook to get people in

1062
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,919
Speaker 1: to buy the book. To Just use Mark Twain's brain,

1063
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:52,320
Speaker 1: don't give him credit.

1064
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 2: Just use the Wiji board.

1065
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 1: Just use the wish be like, guys, I made this

1066
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,399
Speaker 1: out of Wija. Boy, it doesn't it feel like something

1067
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: Mark Twain would write.

1068
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 2: I've never done the Wiji board for really. Yeah, no,

1069
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 2: I've got big hands.

1070
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: I wish we had one. Maybe we should bring one

1071
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 1: just for fun. Oh shit, I just looked at the time,

1072
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: and since you have to leave, you're very busy. We're

1073
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,800
Speaker 1: just gonna have to skip the ghost voices and the

1074
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,439
Speaker 1: haunted doll and all that stuff. We'll do that next time, Okay, please,

1075
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: I would love that.

1076
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you for having me.

1077
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: Tell everybody what you got going on and where they

1078
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: can find you.

1079
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: Well, my name's Michael Food. You can find me on

1080
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 2: I saw my soul to the Internet a long time ago.

1081
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: So I'm on TikTok Instagram. That's really only where I post,

1082
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 2: and then my Exactly Right show brief recesses every Thursday. Yes,

1083
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 2: you're on Exactly Right and everywhere you get podcasts, and

1084
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 2: we record at the iHeart Studios in New York which

1085
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:45,280
Speaker 2: is fun, so you can listen to it on iHeart

1086
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 2: as well.

1087
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 1: Cool.

1088
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

1089
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: So happy to meet you. Oh my god, he's so

1090
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: easy to talk to you. That was super fun. We

1091
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 1: got to have him back on here because there's definitely

1092
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 1: more cases that we could cover. H and make sure

1093
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:06,720
Speaker 1: you're listening to his podcast, Brief Recess, a legal podcast. Okay,

1094
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: that's it for this week. I love you all, both

1095
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: living and dead. But if I didn't ask you to

1096
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: haunt me, don't haunt me came back. This has been

1097
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: an exactly right production. Want to share your paranormal experience

1098
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 1: on the podcast. I read stories out loud and sometimes

1099
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: I'll even call you, so email me at ghosted by

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00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,280
Speaker 1: Roz at gmail dot com. You can send a DM

1101
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: or voice message to the show's Instagram at ghosted by Roz.

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00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 1: Give us a follow while you're there, and follow me

1103
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 1: Roz on Instagram at Roz Hernandez and on TikTok and

1104
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 1: Twitter at It's Roz Hernandez. My senior producer is the

1105
00:56:56,080 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: startling Jiha Lee. Associate producer is the alarming Christina Chamberlain.

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00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed and sound designed by the eerie

1107
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: Edson Joy. My guest booker is the petrifying Patrick Kuttner.

1108
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: My theme music is by the spine chilling Brendan Lynch Salomon.

1109
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: Artwork by the Spooky Vanessa Lilac. Photography by the terrifying

1110
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Karen. Executive produced by the Chilling Karen Kilgareff, the

1111
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: Spooky Georgia hart Stark, and the Frightening Danielle Kramer. Listen

1112
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: to Ghosted by Roz Hernandez on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1113
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.