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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants.

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Speaker 2: Let's go. Let's Giants on the Giants. Mouble give me

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Speaker 2: some job.

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Speaker 1: Part of the Giants Podcast Network.

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Speaker 2: Let's roll. Welcome to another show of the Giants Little

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Speaker 2: podcast brought to you by Citizens Official Bank at the

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Speaker 2: Giants Show and O'Hara, John Schmelke with you. Two part

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Speaker 2: episode today. Were gonna lead off with Sean then Tom Canavan,

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Speaker 2: who is retiring, has covered the Giants for forty years.

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Speaker 2: I'll talk about his career a little bit. Will join

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Speaker 2: us in the second half of the show. Seawan, how

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Speaker 2: are you man, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Doing well, plugging along here. Season's going by quick. I

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Speaker 3: will just say one thing, Tom, congratulations on a wonderful career.

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Speaker 3: It's impressive he covered you when you want to hear

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Speaker 3: him for basically my entire sports career. True gentleman. Always

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Speaker 3: could trust Tom, always understood that he would always be

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Speaker 3: fair and be honest, and he was great. He always

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Speaker 3: had a great personality and we always enjoyed talking Rutgers

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Speaker 3: football as well. So, uh, Tom, congratulations on your retirement.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely all right, talk to me about where this Giants

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Speaker 2: offensive line is and how you handle this as a

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Speaker 2: lot when you have all these injuries. John Runyon's not

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Speaker 2: gonna play this week. We'll see about John. Michael Schmidt's

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Speaker 2: game ended last week with nobody in the right spot.

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Speaker 2: Greg Van Roe was the only starter left Stinny kubas

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Speaker 2: Zudu Neil. How does all this work for an offensive

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Speaker 2: line this week trying to figure out how to play

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Speaker 2: against a team like the Ravens.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think everybody needs to start chewing bubble gum

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Speaker 3: because that's literally what's holding all this together. Like you

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Speaker 3: need a gum, I get a gum, like, because this

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Speaker 3: is the worst case scenario for any team if all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden, you have guys going down and look,

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Speaker 3: Andrew Thomas went down. This is the second year in

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Speaker 3: a row that he has missed time. And once you

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Speaker 3: lose your best offensive lineman and he happens to be

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Speaker 3: your left tackle as well, there's a domino effect. Now

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Speaker 3: guys start moving around, so illuminars out, you know, and

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Speaker 3: then you have Hubbard who's in and out of the

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Speaker 3: lineup and constant change at the offensive line position. We

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Speaker 3: already know the outcome of that, Like we know that

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Speaker 3: that's not a great recipe. Continuity and chemistry and that

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Speaker 3: is what builds confidence. So the challenge really is when

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Speaker 3: you have these moving parts, John is all right, I've

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Speaker 3: only got two real practices during the week to get

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Speaker 3: these guys reps together so they can pass off a

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Speaker 3: twist so they're not stepping on each other's feet. You

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Speaker 3: just don't have much enough time to really get these

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Speaker 3: guys cohesive when you're constantly changing opposition. So obviously John

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Speaker 3: Michael Smith's went down, Greg Van Roten stepped in. I

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Speaker 3: think that Greg Van Roten has been a phenomenal signing.

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Speaker 3: Not only has he started and played every single snap

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Speaker 3: for this Giants team, he also has that versatility and

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Speaker 3: that's exactly why you bring a guy like that in

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Speaker 3: so that, hey, if something happens to your starting center,

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Speaker 3: you've got a backup that is capable that's not going

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Speaker 3: to pee down his leg on third and nine in

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Speaker 3: the silent comp because he knows they know what he's doing.

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Speaker 3: So I think those are things that you know are

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Speaker 3: really great when they happen, you don't like it they happen,

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Speaker 3: but you have a great option. I think the offensive

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Speaker 3: line and look, Carmen Bascilla has done a great job

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Speaker 3: with this whole group. I think that that what they've

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Speaker 3: done this year. They are playing and performing so much

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Speaker 3: better this season than what we saw last year, and

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Speaker 3: they're not beating themselves. But I will say the one

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Speaker 3: thing that always keeps showing up anytime you start rotating

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Speaker 3: off as a lineman in is it's they struggle to

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Speaker 3: handle the twists, whether it's a run stunt on first

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Speaker 3: and second noun or a twist on third down. And

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Speaker 3: look at rid it's ugly head. And you know against

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Speaker 3: the Saints, they obviously saw some of those issues on film.

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Speaker 3: And then also once you see a guy go out

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Speaker 3: and you've got a couple of backups, you know we're

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Speaker 3: gonna run some twists. And they had, you know, a

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Speaker 3: couple of twists tomorrow. Davis was involved on one, which

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Speaker 3: was a huge collision on John Michael Smich. He got

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Speaker 3: he got picked. You know, his left guard really didn't

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Speaker 3: punch the slanter down enough. And those are things that

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Speaker 3: just kind of come with with more reps and more time.

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Speaker 3: But I think the one thing you can do to

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Speaker 3: fix all this, not fixed, but help is just just

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Speaker 3: run the ball forty five times, like come out, we

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Speaker 3: are gonna let you guys just fire out. Take it

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Speaker 3: out on the other guys. Like, if a guy makes

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Speaker 3: doesn't get a great block on a run play, maybe

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Speaker 3: it's only two yards. If a guy misses a block

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Speaker 3: on a pass play, it's disasters.

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Speaker 2: And I thought last week they Tracy did a good

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Speaker 2: job of making the most of some running players where

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Speaker 2: it wasn't a ton of room. They kept it simple,

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Speaker 2: a lot of inside zone, a lot of duo stuff.

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Speaker 2: They weren't trying a lot of fancy stuff. I imagine

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Speaker 2: against a Ravens defense that has struggled this year, you'll

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Speaker 2: probably see a lot of the same type of scheme stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you only had fourteen carries in the game.

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Speaker 3: Sixteen sixteen carries. I'd like to see him have more.

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Speaker 3: Now the game was in reach and you could run

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Speaker 3: the ball more, But the problem was the Giants had

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Speaker 3: twelve penalties and they were in a lot of second

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Speaker 3: and fifteens where you get a sack on first down

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Speaker 3: and now it's second and sixteen, and if.

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Speaker 2: You rewatch it, the Saints did have eight guys and

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Speaker 2: just extra bodies in the box the whole game.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're basically saying we don't think you can throw

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Speaker 3: the ball on us. So we're going to try to

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Speaker 3: take away tyrone Tracy in your run game and make

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Speaker 3: you one dimensional. So until you can fight your way

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Speaker 3: out of that situation, you're gonna find yourself in a

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Speaker 3: loaded box and an a man box and struck kind

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Speaker 3: of running up hill. But I think that that's you, Tracy.

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Speaker 3: I think he gets better as the game goes along, too,

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Speaker 3: Like he gets better, more confidence. He starts to read

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Speaker 3: the holes better, reads the defense better, and you know,

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Speaker 3: that's when you get that big play. You could run

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Speaker 3: the ball fifteen times and you get three yards of carry,

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Speaker 3: and then on that sixteenth or seventeenth or eighteenth carry,

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Speaker 3: that's when you pop the thirty yard run and that's

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Speaker 3: how you get a hundred yards.

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Speaker 2: All right, two quick ones for you. I thought Avania

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Speaker 2: was significantly better this week. He was, you know, we

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Speaker 2: talked about it on the ground a lot against Dallas.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I saw him on the ground

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Speaker 2: more than once in the game this week. Now, different

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Speaker 2: competition obviously, but I thought he was better in the

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Speaker 2: pass game and in the run game.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought there was definitely some improvement for him.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting because each team, you know, you kind of

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Speaker 3: see they have different rushers and different defenders. I thought

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Speaker 3: Dallas a lot more speed, yep, and that's I think

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Speaker 3: one of the things that Evan Neil has struggled with

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Speaker 3: is the speed, and he crosses over too much. Like

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Speaker 3: the one thing you cannot do is an offensive lineman,

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Speaker 3: you can never cross over. You can never cross your feet,

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Speaker 3: especially not in passport. That's when you get in trouble

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Speaker 3: and that's when you end up on the ground.

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Speaker 2: And then when you're play defensive basketball guys, you can't

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Speaker 2: cross your feet.

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Speaker 3: You got to keep it exactly. It's a basketball rule.

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Speaker 3: You can't. You don't want to be a heel clicker,

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Speaker 3: but you can't cross over. I think Evan Neil got

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Speaker 3: beat inside on one play early in the game, yep,

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Speaker 3: really early the game, which should have never happened because

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Speaker 3: he had a running back outside to help chip, so

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Speaker 3: it was play action and I think it ended up

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Speaker 3: in a sack or a hit, but he crossed over

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Speaker 3: as well on that. So I thought there was definitely

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Speaker 3: improvement in the pass pro area. The Saints pass rushers.

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Speaker 3: They're more power and speed, so I think that may

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Speaker 3: have helped him a little bit, but there were still

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Speaker 3: too many times John where I felt like he was

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Speaker 3: so concerned with getting out to that point, so concerned

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Speaker 3: about getting beat with that speed rush, that once he

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Speaker 3: got out there, he was too high and he did

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Speaker 3: not have a good anchor and he just kind of

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Speaker 3: got pushed back.

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Speaker 2: He needs to play inside out more right.

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Speaker 3: Inside out, And also, like you know what, just give

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Speaker 3: them a one way go you can, like when you set,

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Speaker 3: you want to set on the inside half of that

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Speaker 3: guy and then make him commit. Once he commits to

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Speaker 3: that upfield rush, then you just.

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Speaker 2: Turn and run and run him up field, right, Yeah, yeah, but.

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Speaker 3: He keeps trying to cover him up, and when you

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Speaker 3: cover him up, that's when you get beat inside and

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Speaker 3: that's when he struggle with a change direction. So you know,

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Speaker 3: there was definitely improving on that aspect of it, and

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Speaker 3: you know, hopefully that trend continues.

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Speaker 2: All right, Final question, real quick. I did not like

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Speaker 2: the personal foul and Cubas give me the offensive lineman perspective.

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Speaker 2: What would you do if a guy's trying to block

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Speaker 2: a field goal and he jumps on top of your shoulder?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, listen like a.

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Speaker 2: Small child and gently put him on the ground.

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Speaker 3: Kubas. I love him. He's undrafted for free agent, right,

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Speaker 3: He's not going to take any crap from anybody, and

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Speaker 3: this guy's draping all over him, so he's trying to

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Speaker 3: protect himself. But I did not like the penalty either.

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Speaker 3: I also thought the defender kind of grabbed him and

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Speaker 3: was kind of pulling him down. So it was kind

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Speaker 3: of like, were you wrestling the bear? Was the bear

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Speaker 3: tackling you, or were you tackling the bear? Like I

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Speaker 3: think there was a little bit of both, and I

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Speaker 3: don't think the referee saw that whole thing. I think

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Speaker 3: he thought it was a slam, yeah, and it was clearly.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it was definitely not the rock Bottom it was.

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Speaker 3: It was more the defender grabbing him and pulling him down.

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Speaker 3: I don't think he really had a choice.

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Speaker 2: Good stuff. Thanks Joe o'harat, Tom Cannon of Make Going

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Speaker 2: Up Next, hoddle up, get in here. If you're up here,

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Speaker 2: you gotta go over the middle with at the score great?

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Speaker 2: How do we make that happen?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, Bud Citizens, does it makes sense of

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Speaker 3: your money?

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Speaker 2: With Citizens? Official Bank of Eli Manning The Giants Total

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Speaker 2: Podcast is brought to you by Citizens, the official bank

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Speaker 2: of the Giants, from game day celebrations to your everyday

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Speaker 2: financial needs. Big Blue Fans and get the most out

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Speaker 2: of every moment with Citizens. Learn more at citizens bank

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Speaker 2: dot com slash Giants. You think Sean O'Hara, he has

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Speaker 2: been transported out of the studio and we transport in

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Speaker 2: Tom Canavan, who is in his final lap as reporter

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Speaker 2: covering the Giants. It's been forty years, Tom, so I

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Speaker 2: wanted to get you on here. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: I'm even asking you a question about the current thing.

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Speaker 2: To be honest with you, I want to talk about

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Speaker 2: everything you've seen in your forty years. First of all,

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Speaker 2: congratulations and how are you?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? I feel great. I mean it's been a

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Speaker 1: long run, but I mean I couldn't be happier. After

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Speaker 1: you know, you get the an offer to buy out,

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Speaker 1: you have free time to yourself. I'm just ready.

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Speaker 2: So what are your what are your plans for your

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Speaker 2: free time?

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Speaker 1: I've always wanted to do different things, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: learn to speak a different language. That's cool, like franch

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Speaker 1: I want to travel, you know, I want to see

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Speaker 1: my kids. So I mean it's it's just simple stuff.

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Speaker 2: No, I think that's fantastic. So I want to start

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Speaker 2: with the basic stuff because frankly, I'm interested in it.

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Speaker 2: And if the fans don't care, I'm sorry, you're gonna

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Speaker 2: have to listen. You cover the Giants with the AP.

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Speaker 2: How is and how is that different than what the

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Speaker 2: guys from the Post, the News, News Day and stuff

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Speaker 2: like that are doing. How is your day to day

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Speaker 2: and your goals when you walk into this building different

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Speaker 2: than what maybe some of the guys from the tabloids

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Speaker 2: are doing.

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Speaker 1: Well. Basically, I'm not a beat writer per se although

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Speaker 1: I do cover the Giants, I also cover Rutgers, I

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Speaker 1: cover Seaton Hall, I cover the Devils. I used to

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Speaker 1: cover the Nets, so my time is split up. Although

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Speaker 1: the Nets leaving has changed things, and but it's a

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Speaker 1: number of responsibilities and it's been fun. That's what I

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Speaker 1: like about the AP because we represent the rest of

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Speaker 1: the world. I mean the guys who are the beat

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Speaker 1: writers for the Post and Newsday and the Daily News

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Speaker 1: and the Star Ledger. I mean those guys their sole

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Speaker 1: focus is the Giants, and so they're on top of everything,

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Speaker 1: and their readers want them on top of everything. I'm

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Speaker 1: on top of a number of things reporting for the world.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we are the largest gathering news service in

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Speaker 1: the world, and my stories go, you know, worldwide.

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Speaker 2: And it seems to me that And this is simply

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Speaker 2: from listening to you ask questions for the better part

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Speaker 2: of eighteen years since I've been here doing this. You're

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Speaker 2: asking a different type of question than maybe some of

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Speaker 2: the other guys are trying to get different types of

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Speaker 2: information for your story. How do you think that part

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Speaker 2: of the job is different for.

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Speaker 1: You, Well, I'm looking for angles that would be appreciated

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Speaker 1: if my story, let's say they're playing the Ravens this weekend. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for angles that will help me write about

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Speaker 1: both the giants and the raven So I'm looking for

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Speaker 1: those generic answers. I'm not going to push you on,

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Speaker 1: you know, if a coach is going to be fired

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Speaker 1: or something like that, I'm not going to be pushing

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Speaker 1: on that, other than I will be talking to people

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes to see if i can get a

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Speaker 1: beat or something like that. But I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: beat the dead the dead horse. So i just feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm more neutral than other guys.

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Speaker 2: How has it changed reporting for the AP, or maybe

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Speaker 2: it hasn't changed reporting for the AP and the forty

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Speaker 2: plus years you've been actually forty years of the Giants

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Speaker 2: with almost fifty years overall, right with the AP, Right,

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Speaker 2: how has it changed, if at all.

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Speaker 1: It's gotten more that the AP's focuses on the social

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Speaker 1: media aspect in the sense that we are now dealing

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Speaker 1: with an audience that wants news immediately, where in the

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Speaker 1: past we used to deal with newspapers and what we

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Speaker 1: wrote would appear the next day. Right now, the people

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Speaker 1: who want news who want it now, And there's an

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Speaker 1: immediacy to sports.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. And so just so fans understand it,

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Speaker 2: the AP will then you have contracts with different news

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Speaker 2: organizations around the world and the countries, and then they

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Speaker 2: will take your story and then publish them on their platform.

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Speaker 1: Correct, but they're also now publishing them on their Internet

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Speaker 1: sites and of course, and so that's why speed and accuracy,

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Speaker 1: which is the AP's trademark, are what we deal with

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Speaker 1: all the time.

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Speaker 2: All right, So now we'll go into storytime. Now, favorite

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Speaker 2: game does not have to be a Giants game, favorite

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Speaker 2: game that you ever covered that you were at.

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Speaker 1: It's weird, I mean there are so many where the

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Speaker 1: thing just turns around. I mean, I did a net

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Speaker 1: game where there was the playoffs and the Nets are

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Speaker 1: about to advance, and I think Reggie hit a half

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Speaker 1: court shot that forced in overtime, and I just sat

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Speaker 1: there and I said bleep because my copy was written

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Speaker 1: and it was starting to rewrite again. But there were

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Speaker 1: I think those are the games you remember most eighty

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Speaker 1: six when the Giants played Washington in the NFC title game.

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Speaker 1: It was a horrible night, the wind was blowing. Giants

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Speaker 1: won the toss, and Parcels told whoever the captains were, Harry,

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Speaker 1: we want the wind, and I mean, and that was

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Speaker 1: how they wanted to play it. They wanted their defense

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Speaker 1: to control the game from the start, and they did.

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Speaker 1: They shut them out.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned your game story was already finished. I don't

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Speaker 2: think fans quite understand how that process works either. At

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Speaker 2: what point are you starting to write your game story

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Speaker 2: over the course of a four quarter NFL football game.

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Speaker 1: If I'm lucky and it's a blowout, I write it halftime, really,

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Speaker 1: and then I start up dating as the game continues

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Speaker 1: on with final stats. Like Sunday was a tough one

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Speaker 1: because you know.

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Speaker 2: He turned to the fourth quarter, right he turned in.

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Speaker 1: The fourth quarter, the Giants had a chance. I'm knocking

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Speaker 1: down my lead to talk about how the game was,

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Speaker 1: how the Giants forced overtime, and and then Briesly comes

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Speaker 1: in and blocks the kick, and and I'm going back

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Speaker 1: to the original and flipping, and you know, I'm flipping again.

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Speaker 1: And it was an interesting time. But that's what an

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Speaker 1: AP writer does because our deadlines are immediate, and it's

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Speaker 1: you'd like to publish as soon as the game ends,

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Speaker 1: or beyond the wire, as soon as the game ends.

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Speaker 1: But sometimes you just need to take those extra few

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Speaker 1: minutes and talk about, you know, what did happen and

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Speaker 1: how it changed.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, the Bucks game two weeks ago,

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Speaker 2: I imagine that's one that you know, midway through the

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Speaker 2: third quarter, that thing's finished.

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Speaker 1: It's not finished. But it's what I want to say

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Speaker 1: up high is, you know, the Bucks have kind of

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Speaker 1: gotten themselves back in the race with the Falcons starting

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Speaker 1: to play poorly.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, what was it like dealing with Bill Parcells

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Speaker 2: and covering Bill Parcells.

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Speaker 1: He was interesting because, unlike many coaches, there were two

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Speaker 1: news conferences. It was the news conference. Everybody sat at

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Speaker 1: and then when he finished and some people went to

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Speaker 1: the locker room, he'd say, Okay, turn off the tape

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Speaker 1: recorders and we will discuss what's going on. So if

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Speaker 1: he was unhappy with Jumbo Elliott playing tackle, he tell you,

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Speaker 1: he tell you, and then everybody would wouldn't write Bill

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Speaker 1: Parsl Parcell said Jumbo was playing poorly, but he would

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Speaker 1: tell everybody, and everybody would say it. You know, the

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Speaker 1: management may not be happy. And I mean it was

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Speaker 1: very cleverly done. And I mean most coaches now are

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Speaker 1: totally different than that. And I recall when Belichick was

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Speaker 1: the defensive coordinat him. Bill Belichick was one of the

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Speaker 1: best quotes in the locker room, and he said so much.

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Speaker 1: There was a point where I think Parcels told him

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Speaker 1: to shut up, and he was never good again.

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Speaker 2: And he followed that advice for the rest of his

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Speaker 2: career exactly. Oh boy. The Johns Little Podcast is brought

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Speaker 2: to you by Citizens, the official Bank of the Giants.

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Speaker 2: Citizens will donate seven hundred and fifty dollars of the

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Speaker 2: Giants Foundation for each scoring drive during the twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: four season. Learn more Citizensbank dot com slash Giants or

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Speaker 2: I'll go two separate ways with that. Let's stick with

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Speaker 2: the Belichick thing first, and I'll circle back to Parcels.

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Speaker 2: Did you have a sense how good of a head

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Speaker 2: coach he could have been when you covered him as

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Speaker 2: a defensive coordinator.

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Speaker 1: I sense that the Giants had an outstanding defense. I

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Speaker 1: knew that Parcells was the defensive guy. So I always

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Speaker 1: kind of had in the back of my head, how

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Speaker 1: much is Bill and how much is Bill right there?

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Speaker 1: And and when he went to Cleveland, I believe at

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Speaker 1: first it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: All of you know, I started slow there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was a slow start for him

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Speaker 1: as a coach. And I mean the lucky thing was

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Speaker 1: the uh he went to New England and uh, you

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Speaker 1: know he got Tom Brady and I mean that's a

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Speaker 1: difference maker. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And it's funny just talking bigger picture. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think there's probably a lot of great coaches out there

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Speaker 2: that have failed because they don't have the right quarterback

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Speaker 2: and the right players. And I think, I know it's

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Speaker 2: easy for me to say this. I think sometimes people

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Speaker 2: focus a little too much on actual the numbers and

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Speaker 2: the results without looking at maybe some of the wise

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Speaker 2: and nuances why some of those results haven't taken place. Oh?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, Uh. You wonder about even current you know, Brian Dable,

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Speaker 1: I mean if he had you know, Lamar Jackson, or

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Speaker 1: he had somebody else, Allen Jared Goff or somebody. I

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Speaker 1: mean you you wonder if you know, his coaching or

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Speaker 1: the record would be better. But it's you know, it's

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Speaker 1: the right fit, and you do. You make do with

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Speaker 1: what you have, and right now they're struggling all.

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Speaker 2: Right back to parcels. Do you think a coach if

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Speaker 2: they wanted to assuming a coach wanted to operate that way,

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Speaker 2: right we had the real news conference and you throw

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Speaker 2: out the recorders and you have the off the director conversation.

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Speaker 2: Assume a coach wanted to do that today, do you

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Speaker 2: think it would work and be feasible with the way

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Speaker 2: the media is today as opposed to what it was

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Speaker 2: in the eighties.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 1: Why I think that the media back in the eighties

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Speaker 1: was I don't want to say they would driven because

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Speaker 1: everybody wanted to break the story, and there was it

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Speaker 1: was infighting to break stories. But I don't think that

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Speaker 1: the level of you know, there was a trust level,

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Speaker 1: and I think you have to know who you're dealing with.

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Speaker 1: And the group that he had he knew was like

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Speaker 1: Finny de Trini, Frank Leitzki, Hank Gola. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: can go on and on, and it worked because there

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Speaker 1: was a trust.

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Speaker 2: Paul used to tell me how you guys used to

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Speaker 2: just sidle up to George Young walking off the practice

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Speaker 2: field and just talking to George Young a lot different

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Speaker 2: than what happens with general managers. Now, what was that

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Speaker 2: relationship with George Young in the media and how did

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Speaker 2: that help form your guys coverage and how much different

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Speaker 2: is it than what we did with today.

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Speaker 1: George Young was a grumpy old man who you call

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Speaker 1: him up and the first thing he'd say to you

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Speaker 1: is what do you want? Why are you bothering me?

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Speaker 1: And then he'd say okay, and then he gave you

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Speaker 1: everything you wanted. But George was again one of those

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Speaker 1: guys who had familiarity with, you know, the media, because

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Speaker 1: he was, I believe, a pr guy at one point.

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Speaker 1: And the thing that with George is that he understood

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Speaker 1: a good relationship with the media helps the team, and

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Speaker 1: I think teams have lost that that insight and what

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Speaker 1: you see now as you go in the locker room,

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Speaker 1: and half the guys hide in the trainer's room, and

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Speaker 1: and you get the locker rooms, or while there's access,

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Speaker 1: there's everybody's not out.

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Speaker 3: If you want to know how to manage two minutes

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00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,360
Speaker 3: of crunch time football, I'm your man.

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Speaker 2: But if you're wondering about a long term financial plan,

429
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 2: you should talk to Citizens. Hey, I can also talk

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00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 2: long care. I'd like to learn about amiliar tae. Yes,

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00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 2: I knew I could help make sense of your money

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Speaker 2: with Citizens. You mentioned access. There's been a push by

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Speaker 2: the players Association to limit some of that access.

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Speaker 1: Right, let's take it outside, right.

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Speaker 2: Right, So just curious. I try to explain this to

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00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,879
Speaker 2: the fans, and I'm not sure if they understand what

437
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:00,479
Speaker 2: I'm saying or believe me. You've been doing a lot

438
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 2: longer than me. Why is it important in your opinion

439
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 2: for media to have access one on one in the

440
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 2: locker room to players during the week and after games,

441
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 2: rather than just having conversations with them in a press

442
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 2: conference setting where the players are brought out at you.

443
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 2: Why is important to actually have that forty minutes in

444
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 2: the locker room where you can go and talk to

445
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 2: them whoever you want.

446
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 1: It goes back to what we talked about with parcels.

447
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 1: You develop a certain amount of trust. And I mean,

448
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,640
Speaker 1: if you're just gonna bring a guy to the microphone

449
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: and then after five to ten minutes say you know

450
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 1: last two questions, it's a group setting and you never

451
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 1: get to know the guy. Where at times in the

452
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 1: locker room, I don't have any questions that I am

453
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 1: writing a story for, but I would like to get

454
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: to know the guy.

455
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 2: Why is that trust factor in getting to know the

456
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 2: guys eventually important to accurately report on the team and

457
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 2: do your job as a reporter.

458
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: You believe the answers you're get are honest and truthful.

459
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: You believe that they're not just giving you the company line.

460
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 1: I mean there are times in recent the last decade

461
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: where the coach will say something and I go and

462
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 1: talk to the players and it's like I'm hearing it

463
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: again and it's let's parrot the coach. I mean even

464
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: assistant coaches. Now it's everybody you know a S. Dabes

465
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 1: or that's for the head coach that you know. And

466
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 1: I mean it's not even something that is meaningful that

467
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: they're not commenting on.

468
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 2: And that's important to the fans so they get a

469
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 2: better idea of what's actually happening, right right. Absolutely, Yeah, Look,

470
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 2: I'm with you, and I've tried to explain that, but

471
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,120
Speaker 2: I want them to hear from a guy who's been

472
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 2: doing it for a really long time. I wasn't here

473
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 2: when Tom Coughlin first got here, and it was like

474
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 2: military Tom. My first year with the team was two

475
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 2: thousand and seven, so that was after he had softened. Now,

476
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 2: not knowing Tom beforehand, two thousand and seven, Tom was

477
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 2: not soft to Tom. To me, he was still like

478
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 2: scared you to death, Tom Coughlin. But how much different

479
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 2: was he before he got to two thousand and seven

480
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 2: versus what once he got there and did change he

481
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 2: I think.

482
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: What he came into was a situation where the team

483
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: had gone south in the last two years and there

484
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:35,679
Speaker 1: was he saw no discipline, and I think what he

485
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: wanted to do is kind of restore that. So, I mean,

486
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: there was the five minute rule. Coughlin said, the meeting

487
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,439
Speaker 1: starts at twelve, It was actually eleven fifty five and

488
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: if you were late, you got fined. So I mean

489
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: it was he just wanted everybody focused, and I really

490
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: enjoyed working with Tom Coughlin.

491
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 2: Me too.

492
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: I mean, he was once you got to know him

493
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,479
Speaker 1: and you got you could see. I used to look

494
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: at him at times when he was being pressured on

495
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: something and I'd start laughing and I could see that,

496
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: you know, he knew that I knew it was, you know,

497
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: just something that was, you know, going crazy. I mean Jordan,

498
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: Jordan ran On was always great at getting Tom and

499
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 1: I mean what he was, I mean and to thwarted. Yeah,

500
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 1: And I loved it when he talked about Jordan's salmon

501
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: shirt one year.

502
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 2: I do remember that. I think Tom called it pink pink,

503
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 2: and then Jordan's corrected him and it was sad that

504
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 2: I remember. That was pretty good. The nineties Giants post

505
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 2: Sims Hosteler, when they were kind of jumping from Dave

506
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 2: Brown to Kent Graham to Danny Canell. How similar was that?

507
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 2: And a lot of people have compared what's going on

508
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 2: now of what it was like in the seventies. I

509
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: wasn't there for that, You weren't there for that? How

510
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 2: similar is this to what you had in kind of

511
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 2: like that late nineties area time before they got to Kerry.

512
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,959
Speaker 1: Collins yeah, I think it was you you're looking for

513
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: somebody and you don't have them because all the years

514
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: where there was so good, they kept on getting these

515
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,959
Speaker 1: low draft picks, and the difference makers weren't there any

516
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: draft right, and I didn't see as much movement among

517
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 1: the major free agents back then, So.

518
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: It was hard.

519
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: If you don't have a quarterback in this league, you're

520
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: you're screwed. And you know, if you look at the

521
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 1: Giants right now, they have nobody for next year, and

522
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 1: it's they're going to have to do something.

523
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: All right, So let me ask you about that. Then

524
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,479
Speaker 2: they a couple more quick fire and then I'll get

525
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: you Addy rift to get into the locker room in

526
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: about twenty minutes or so. If you had to put

527
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 2: your finger on the major reasons why the Giants are

528
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 2: in the situation they are now and why the last

529
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. How far are you back? You want

530
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,960
Speaker 2: to go twenty seventeen, if you want to skip the

531
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen season, you want to go back to twenty

532
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 2: thirteen when things first started going Whoever far back you

533
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: want to go, Where would you put your finger on

534
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 2: why things have gone south? And what do you think

535
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,640
Speaker 2: needs to happen to turn things around. I know it's

536
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: a civil question, but it's a complicated answer, right.

537
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: I mean, find the next Tom Brady in the draft

538
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: would be helpful.

539
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 2: I think that's Eli Manning would be okay too, Yeah, exactly.

540
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: But it's just something that I think they're moving in

541
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: the right direction. I think Joe Shane came in and

542
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: they were hamstrung with the the salary cap. I think

543
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: they've gotten that somewhat under control. The last draft I

544
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:39,719
Speaker 1: thought was a good draft. You know, I Deontay Banks.

545
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: I wish he was a little bit better. I mean,

546
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: you could see where he covers guys well, but he

547
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: just doesn't get his head around quick enough. Lash But

548
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: I think they're they're slowly getting there. And you know,

549
00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 1: adding Maleak this year, Tyrone Trey, see Tyler Nubin, I

550
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: think those are good choices, even THEO Johnson. So I

551
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: would think that if you can get a quarterback to

552
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: put that all together, I think you got a shot.

553
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: You mentioned the league neighbors. You've been through here with

554
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: guys like Lawrence Taylor, guys like od Old Beckham, junior

555
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 2: guys like Michael Strahan. I'm probably forgetting some in the

556
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: Jeremy Shocky even right, Victor Cruz, what is your early

557
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: impressions of the league, neighbors and your experience covering him

558
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 2: so far.

559
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: I think he's he's an outstanding receiver. I'm just confused

560
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: about you know, you saw so much of him going

561
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: deep in training camp, and that's been hasn't been.

562
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: There basically except for this last game. I kind of

563
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 2: disappeared for a while, and.

564
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: I mean the last game of the big plays, who

565
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: were the act run and so I think he's a

566
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,479
Speaker 1: very very talented player. The only criticism I have is

567
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 1: that he may have dropped more than I expected. I

568
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: remember Isaiah Simmons was talking to before the season started

569
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: and he said, I'll allow you to re drops and

570
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: he missed that one.

571
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: I guess, but I'm sorry, go ahead to fish up time.

572
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,239
Speaker 1: No. But I think he's an outstanding player and he

573
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: will be a focal point of this team.

574
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 2: And you you just think maybe some of the things

575
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 2: that he says that it's gone on some controversy. He's

576
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: just a young guy trying to figure out big city

577
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: New York media talking after the game type of stuff.

578
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: Exactly. I think I think he's a good kid. I

579
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: think he's he's got talent and I that's a good mix.

580
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: Okay. I asked you what your favorite game was to cover?

581
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 2: Who is your favorite person to cover? Doesn't you have

582
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: to be giants? It could be any.

583
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: Sport favorite person. I mean there is so there are

584
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: so many. Yeah. I used to like, you know, Lawrence Taylor.

585
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: I you know, some of the stuff that Lawrence said

586
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 1: was outrageous.

587
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 2: Can you share stuff that won't get us all?

588
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: Well? Their Well, let's let's talk about Lawrence and my

589
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: good buddy, the late Ernie Palladino. Ernie Lawrence got into

590
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: a tiff at a practice once and it was it

591
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: was great.

592
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 2: You know, and little Ernie he was like he's the best.

593
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: He was the best.

594
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I love that. You know. Harry

595
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: Carson was always wonderful.

596
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

597
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: There were there was some guys that just I always

598
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: found offensive linemen, you know, for their big burliness. Were

599
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: they were, they were thoughtful, they were and uh, I've

600
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: always liked that. And you know, and there were some

601
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: things that I want to mention before I get off,

602
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: but please, I remember being at the the nineteen ninety

603
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: Super Bowl and walking into you know, Raymond James Stadium

604
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: and looking overhead and seeing the helicopters and realizing we

605
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: had troops in Iraq and the heightened security, and you know,

606
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: and then with all that wide right, and you just

607
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: sit there and and it's amazing. And it goes on

608
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: and on and on, you know, beating the Patriots when

609
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: they were undefeated, beating them again when they sacked the

610
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: hell out of Brady, the disappointment of the two thousand

611
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, when they you know, Jim Fosso put all

612
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: his chips to the middle and they got down there

613
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: and then the Ravens did a number on them.

614
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: You talked about how unique lt was. Was Eli Manny

615
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 2: unique in the other way where you just couldn't never

616
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 2: get him to crack?

617
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean the only time he crack was I

618
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: think Tiki got on his case once and Eli just

619
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: shot back, and I mean it was so out of

620
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: character for him. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised at

621
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: the cern Eli would say something like that, but Eli

622
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: was so close to the vest that it was like

623
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: pulling teeth.

624
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: All right, I will give you the Florida say whatever

625
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 2: you got to say. One last question, give me your

626
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: best paul Datino story in your forty years covering the

627
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: team together, I don't know.

628
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: My favorite is there's no story. But my vision of

629
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: Paulie is him running somewhere because he had to be

630
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: there five minutes ago. And you know that's Paulatino. He's

631
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: always in a rush, and it was like, you know,

632
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: I gotta get there, I gotta get there, and there's

633
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: always too much on us plate. So that's my Paulatino memory.

634
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: That sounds exactly all right. The floor is yours, Tom,

635
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: forty years covering the Giants, fifty years in the business,

636
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: say what you gotta say.

637
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: Hey, I've enjoyed every minute of it. And the one

638
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: thought that always went through my head was when I

639
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: worked for the AP, is they are actually paying me

640
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: to do this?

641
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: No, And look, we're all very blessed to be working

642
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 2: in sports. A lot of people would die to be

643
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 2: doing this, So I think it's important to recognize that

644
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: and state that Tom, it's been a pleasure. So your

645
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 2: final game is the Colt Colts.

646
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: Game, and my last day will be the Friday before

647
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,719
Speaker 1: the Eagles game and so on that following Monday. I

648
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about anything.

649
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: That is awesome. Now enjoy the retirement. Are we gonna

650
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: see you at training camp one day next year just

651
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: for fun because you're getting a little punchy.

652
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: Can't stay away, Okay, it'll have to be a cooler day.

653
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: Good call Tom Canavan. He's been covering the Giants for

654
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 2: forty years. Some of the ap we thank you for

655
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: joining us on the Giants Little podcast, brought to you

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Speaker 2: by Citizens Official Bank at the Giants. We'll see you

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Speaker 2: next time. Everybody