1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Body Dogs, but Joseph's gotten more. 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 2: In the movie No Country for Old Men, which is 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 2: derived from a book of the same name, there's a 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 2: line in that movie where Tommy Lee Jones's character is 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 2: sitting He plays a sheriff and he's sitting in a 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: diner with another sheriff I think from El Paso, Texas, 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 2: and there is a conversation going on between two of 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 2: these gentlemen, and one of the gentlemen makes a comment 9 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 2: where he says, it's the dismal tide. It's the dismal tide, 10 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: and then he says it's not the one thing, and 11 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: Tommy Lee responds, it's not the one thing. Today, on Bodybags, 12 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: we're going to talk about a case where I can 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: say that, just like in No Country for Old Men, 14 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: it's not the one thing. But I can tell you 15 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 2: the totality of those things added up to arguably one 16 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,199 Speaker 2: of the most horrific cases in recent memory that brother 17 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: Dave and I have covered, and today we're gonna chat 18 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 2: about it. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan coming to you from 19 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 2: the beautiful campus of Jacksonville State University. This is Bodybacks. Dave. 20 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: I gotta tell you I came to the knowledge of 21 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: this case as a result of my friends, and I 22 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: urge you each to go and listen to my friends 23 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: on the podcast Mother Knows Death, where we see each 24 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: other all the time at crime con and they are 25 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: a mother and daughter team and they are absolutely lovely. Nicole, 26 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 2: along with her daughter Maria, have this podcast, and Nicole 27 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: has a similar background to mine. She's a pathology assistant 28 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: and has done pathology for a long long time, and. 29 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: She talks about death, talk about how she worked with 30 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: a meat cleaver or something. 31 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: No, no, we'll get to that in a moment. But yeah, 32 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 2: And this came to me because I actually appeared on 33 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: their show, I think it was yesterday, and I said, hey, look, 34 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: i'd really like to cover this case on body bags, 35 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 2: just simply from the forensic standpoint, and they said they 36 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 2: gave me their blessing. And I'd had another show that 37 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: I wanted to do, but this kind of popped onto 38 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: my radar and I was like, I got to talk 39 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: about this because there was there's so much here that 40 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: has forensic value and learning value. I think, as horrific 41 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 2: as it is, I think that many times, Dave, I 42 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 2: don't know if you agree with this, but I'll ask you, 43 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 2: because we cover so many horrible things, it seems to 44 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 2: me that much like in life, we learn so much 45 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: from our failures as opposed to our successes. I think 46 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: the more horrible a case is many times from a 47 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: forensic standpoint and from an education standpoint, we can glean 48 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: more from that than we can other things. It might 49 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 2: be more. I don't know how you put it. Ps S. 50 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: Perhaps there's so much to dig into, and particularly in 51 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,559 Speaker 2: this case as from a trauma standpoint, in interpreting that trauma, 52 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 2: I think. 53 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: You're right in every level there. Yeah, Okay, this case 54 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: today is about a forty five year old victim. His 55 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: name is Anthony cast A Lostpro. Is that how you 56 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: say his name? Okay? Yes, because I knew you were 57 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: on that show that they would say it properly, and 58 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: I attended. 59 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: Well, they're from Philly, so yeah, they could say it properly. 60 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: I remember when I met that at Grime Gone. They're 61 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: just wonderful. But anyway, Anthony Castle Lostpro is forty five 62 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: years by the way, he is already retired. He's a 63 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: mechanic who is retired on disability and just doing his thing. 64 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: They're living up in the northeast and he's been dating 65 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: a woman. They've been together for six years and living together. 66 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: They have heard two children in the home, nineteen year 67 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: old Damien Herstal and his sixteen year old sister. And 68 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: Damien has had his share of issues over time, some 69 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 1: psychological things, some problems at school. He's been he has 70 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: a history of mental illness issues and he has been 71 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: medicated from time to time, been hospitalized for it as 72 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: a matter of fact. But in this particular case, something 73 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: happened and it wasn't my stepdad made me, made me mad, 74 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 1: and I attacked him. This is a case of what 75 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: was described as it wasn't any one thing. It was 76 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: a combination of things that boiled over and it ended 77 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: with forty five year old Anthony costelospro in the bathtub. 78 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: He's dead and Damien is covered in blood from head 79 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: to toe. Actually that's not right. His face and arms 80 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: were covered in blood. Somehow, his shirt wasn't. We got 81 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: to figure this out. This is the description from the neighbors. 82 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: Because what happens is what we're going to tell you 83 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: in this story is pretty gruesome. And I'm trying, I'm 84 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: trying not to make a light of it, because there's 85 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: so many jokes in this, but it actually happened. This 86 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: hands like a movie like if we were to do 87 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: scary movie twenty six whatever we want now, you know, 88 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: making fun of skin, that's what you would do. You 89 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: would do something like, I don't leave a spoon in 90 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: an eye socket. 91 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 2: You know, yeah, you know it fuddles. I can I 92 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: say something about this victim as well? You touched on 93 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: the fact that he's he's actually this happened in Staten Island, which, 94 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 2: of course, for those that don't know, that's a burrow 95 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: of New York City. People forget about Staten Island many times. 96 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: I've actually been there and on the SAT Now if 97 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 2: Alan Staten Island Ferry and you know, kind of traditional neighborhoods, 98 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: that sort of thing. When this guy is retired, medically retired, 99 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: if I if I'm remembering correctly from the sanitation department, 100 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: and Dave, one more thing, because you made me think 101 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 2: about it with the spoon. We'll get to that in 102 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: a second. This guy was going blind. He was slowly 103 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 2: going blind. That's why he was, why he's got it, 104 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 2: why he's on disability. I you know, I've worn glasses, 105 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: I guess since I was ten. I think still were them. 106 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 2: Can't see can't see anything without them. I mean, I'm horrible. 107 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: And you know, as I've gotten older, I've seen my sight, 108 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 2: you know, fading even further, which is expected. But I 109 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,119 Speaker 2: can't imagine being at the age of this man and 110 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: you're suddenly given a diagnosis of you know, you're going blind, 111 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: you know, but yet here you are. You're retired, medically retired, 112 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: you're disabled, and you're cohabitating with a woman now for 113 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 2: many years, and David, you're essentially taking care of her kids. Now. 114 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 2: I don't know what she did for a living. I 115 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 2: don't know what she did outside of the home. But 116 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: these two, this nineteen year old and a sixteen year old, 117 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 2: are living under his roof. Okay, you're providing shelter to them. 118 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: I'm assuming he's putting groceries in the cabinet for you, 119 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 2: in the cupboard and refrigerator, you know, those sorts of things. 120 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 2: He's making a way for these kids, and it has 121 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 2: it has not been an easy road for them throughout 122 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: you know, you talked about this kid struggles with with 123 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: you know, mental health will get on the damn struggle bus. 124 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, there's a lot of people 125 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: that deal with with mental mental issues and they don't. 126 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: They don't and to use a use a mental health 127 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 2: care term, they don't act out like this because this 128 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: is the ultimate in acting out now. Granted, from what 129 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 2: I'm understanding, they have meddled with his meds periodically, which 130 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: is a dangerous thing to do in the first place. 131 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 2: It particularly when you introduce new substances into somebody's system 132 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 2: because it's this crazy whack of chemistry. But you know 133 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 2: what else, he was not so inclined to take his 134 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 2: meds either. So you know, my sympathy meters dropping really 135 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: quickly here, you know, for somebody like this, because you 136 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: can't even self maintenance yourself at that point in time. 137 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: It's sad. Mental health people tend to self medicate through 138 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: many problems in life, and then we tend to use 139 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: a diagnosis of health mental health issues as an excuse. Yeah, 140 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: and I'm about tired of hearing the excuse that a 141 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: nineteen year old decapitates the man who takes care of 142 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: him and by the way, who can't even really defend himself. 143 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: He is on disability he can't really see. I mean, 144 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: he's not in the best of shape at forty five 145 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: years old, and this guy nineteen years old beats him 146 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: over the head with the meat meat tender riser. That's 147 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: one of those metal hammers. 148 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: With like yeah, yeah, I've got one in the drawer 149 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 2: at home. You know, I use it. I use it 150 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: particularly with chicken breast, boneless chicken breast. Yeah, I don't know, 151 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: you know, Julia, Yeah, I boy, the really tough chickens. Uh, 152 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 2: so you know you're going to yeah, exactly. But it's 153 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 2: the surface. The surface of this thing is very very specific. 154 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 2: If you've never seen a meat tenderizer, uh for those 155 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 2: that don't, Now, they do have machines that do this 156 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: in restaurants, you can run it through this thing. But 157 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 2: a meat tenderizer itself is uh is dimpled, and it's 158 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 2: got these little protrusions, and there's rows upon rows upon 159 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 2: rows of them, and you know, the the I think 160 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 2: from a forensic standpoint here, uh, when you look at this, 161 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 2: this is going to be a classic case of what 162 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,079 Speaker 2: are referred to as pattern injuries. But the injuries themselves, 163 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: they don't just stop with with being struck over the head. 164 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 2: A couple of times, uh, in order to end this 165 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: person's life. This guy's head is actually you know, split open, 166 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 2: if you will, for lack of a better term, where 167 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 2: you have probably extrusion, extrusion extrusion, not excrusion, extrusion of 168 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: gray matter that's issuing force from probably gaping injuries in 169 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 2: this guy's skull. Lots of pattern injuries here. There's multiple 170 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 2: tools that are at work here. And you know, here's 171 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 2: the really interesting thing here is that it was all 172 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 2: contained inside of this man's house. His head has been 173 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 2: separated from his body. There's a blender that is involved. 174 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 2: I'll go ahead and tease that right now. But the 175 00:11:53,960 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: worst thing of all is that the perpetrator, upon upon 176 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: acting out in this evil manner, not only did he 177 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 2: act out and desecrate this man's remains, he took very 178 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 2: essential parts of this man's body and displayed them to 179 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: his sixteen year old sister upon her arrival at home 180 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 2: that day. One of the tough things Dave about cases 181 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 2: involving multiple trauma is the idea of trying to understand 182 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 2: what instrument was used and or instruments were used in 183 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 2: the perpetration of a crime. Also trying to understand and 184 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: we've talked about this a lot over the course of 185 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 2: of you know, all of our episodes, trying to understand 186 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: how much of this stuff happened prior to death, uh, 187 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 2: and how much of it occurred afterwards. Dave, we got 188 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,719 Speaker 2: We're going to use our word that we use far 189 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 2: more frequently. I think we probably use this word more 190 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: than any other podcast out there, and that's the word dismemberment. Uh. 191 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: This this involves a case of dismemberment, not not just 192 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 2: dismember but also desecration. 193 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm not laughing at the dismemberment. It's just 194 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: that we have covered a lot. We've covered so many 195 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: that actually, a couple of years ago a crime con 196 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: in or Land, we actually did the whole show in 197 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: front of an audience because this has become a deal lately. 198 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 2: Of Now go let me let me just ask you this. 199 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 2: Do you I had this discussion yesterday on Mother Knows Death. 200 00:13:58,080 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: That title just cracks me up. 201 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: I use. 202 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 2: People are gonna take this maybe the wrong way. I 203 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 2: have no idea, but homicide is one thing. Okay. It 204 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 2: seems to me that you commit a homicide and then 205 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 2: it's literally kicked up to another level of uh of evil? 206 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 2: Is that is that accurate? You know, when you get 207 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 2: into disrespecting the dead like this, uh where you know 208 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 2: people always talk about in society, They'll say, well, I'm 209 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 2: being devalued. There's devalued, and then there's devalued. Okay, where 210 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: you can take take a human being, a fellow human being, 211 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 2: by the way, and and degrade them to the point 212 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 2: where you know, they become almost like your own little 213 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 2: experien And I think about that. Do you think that 214 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 2: do you think that this is a sign I do 215 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 2: of some kind of a greater evil here. 216 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: When you get to a scene like this where you 217 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: have police are called. Okay, just to set the stage here, Okay, 218 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: the police were called because the sixteen year old comes 219 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: home from school. Yeah, and the nineteen year old says, 220 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: you need to go to your room. I've done something 221 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: really bad. And she goes to the bathroom, sees blood 222 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: everywhere and calls mom, calls the police. Mom gets home 223 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: before the police get there. And when they do, when 224 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: the police show up with the rescue teams and everything else, 225 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: the mom goes, don't even bother, don't even bother. His 226 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: head's not attached anymore, don't even bother. He can't be safe. Now, 227 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: those are pretty obscene words to put together with somebody 228 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: you've been sharing your life with, that you could be 229 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: that bold. But what I was thinking, and what I 230 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you, yeah, is when police are getting 231 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: the first bite of the apple. They got the suspect 232 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: here and they have a chance to say what happened, 233 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: you know, because there are other options than okay, we've 234 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: got a real bloody mess. But you know what, maybe 235 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: this guy was abusing him and they got into a fight. 236 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: This kid couldn't take it anymore. He just lost it 237 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: and it ended like this. I mean, that's why they 238 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: ask what's going on. But when the suspect says, I 239 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: don't know, man, I just wanted to see somebody. I 240 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: just want to know what was life for somebody to die. 241 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: I just wanted to know what it's like to kill someone. 242 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: I want to know what it was like to watch 243 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: somebody's life leave their body. I mean anything, which is 244 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: kind of what he said to police. And I'm wondering 245 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: what that means to you when you come on the 246 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: scene now, because we already know we have a victim. 247 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: He's dead. He ain't going anywhere. We've got our suspect. 248 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: He's gone his way to jail in the hospital because 249 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: he's going to have seizures later on. And I'm wondering, 250 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: as you go into that kind of living scene. This 251 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: is a scene that twenty four hours earlier, the family 252 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: was eating dinner or watching TV or whatever people do 253 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: in their own homes, and now it has become this 254 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: macabre floor show of a crime scene. And I wonder 255 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: what you walk into, what do you do when you 256 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: come into that? 257 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, if I'm armed, it's great. If 258 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 2: you this slices two ways, it's great if you're armed 259 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 2: with that information, you know about comments that are made 260 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 2: on one end of it, because you can, I guess 261 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 2: you can kind of contextualize it sometimes. And I was 262 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 2: just talking about this the other day of my class, 263 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 2: lecturing about actually arrival and scene. It's my sophomore class. 264 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 2: I don't want anybody to talk to me when I 265 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 2: get there. I have an idea. You know, if you're 266 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 2: dispatched the scene, say we've got a whatever the local 267 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 2: signal is for death. In Atlanta, it's a signal forty eight. 268 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: In New Orleans, it was a signal twenty nine. You know, 269 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 2: they summon you out to the scene. I don't. I 270 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 2: don't want to know much more behind that, beyond that, 271 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 2: because as I as a matured as an investigator, I 272 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 2: didn't want my view to be colored anyway, so I 273 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,959 Speaker 2: could be as objective as possible. You know, if somebody 274 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 2: simply says to me, we've got a victim in the 275 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 2: house and they're in the bathroom, okay, if if I 276 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 2: can go in with that kind of you're never completely pristine. 277 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 2: So maybe that's not a good word. But if if 278 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: my mind is kind of clear of all the other 279 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 2: you know, chatter that's going around, and it never happens 280 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 2: like this, cops are worse than a knitting circle, all right, 281 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 2: because they want to, they want to yammer. They really didn't. 282 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 2: They want to. They'll grab you by the elbow and 283 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 2: drag you in, you know, and wanted, Yeah, you got 284 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 2: to see this, or this is the worst thing I've 285 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 2: ever seen. I don't. I don't want to hear that. 286 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 2: I would rather I know that it's going to be bad. 287 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 2: I'm I'm a death investigator, all right. You just you 288 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 2: know my degree of bad and their degree of bad 289 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 2: is completely different. So I prefer just to go in 290 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 2: kind of you know, pure uh you know, uh, in 291 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 2: in my mind and in what I'm viewing. But yeah, 292 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 2: when and here's here's another thing that you can't avoid. 293 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 2: And I'd read this when the police arrived at the scene, 294 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 2: and I don't know if this is the mother of 295 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 2: these kids, you know, the girlfriend, fiance or you know 296 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 2: whatever her you know, title is the report seeing a 297 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:57,239 Speaker 2: grown woman out in the street weeping and vomiting, and 298 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 2: that kind of paints you know that that that's only 299 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 2: paints one picture here, it's it was rare. And in 300 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: my case, I think I only remember remember a couple 301 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 2: of times where I had people that were vomiting it scenes. 302 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 2: There were things that would be vomited inducing, I think 303 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 2: for many people, but you don't normally get that reaction 304 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 2: most of the time. You know, certain things are just 305 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 2: over the top and people can't handle them. But in 306 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 2: this case, you know she's out there vomiting. If you 307 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 2: walk into a scene I'm talking about through a civilian's eyes, 308 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,959 Speaker 2: it's really hard to kind of first off the area 309 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 2: here because of what has gone on inside of this 310 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 2: house and in his bathroom. Specifically, it's going to be 311 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 2: bathed in blood. There will be I can't imagine that 312 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: there would be a surface that's not touched. 313 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: And let's get into that. Then what happened to blood? 314 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: We know that he's in the bathtub, but we beat it, like, 315 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: cuags him in there? Did he I mean, didn't he 316 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: start beating him somewhere else and get him in there 317 00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 1: to take him apart? 318 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah. The of the bathroom I think acts as 319 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 2: a slaughter point or slaughterhouse essentially. It's it's kind of 320 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 2: our death the facto. Yeah, you're you're gonna take because 321 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 2: what do you want to do, well, if you're going 322 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,479 Speaker 2: to try to if you're going to try to render 323 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 2: someone down, if you will to the smallest elements, Oh, 324 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 2: let me. 325 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: Ask you something because that's just stop. Because we were 326 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 1: told this was just a boiling over of things. But 327 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: this guy, this nineteen year old Damien, he had a plan. 328 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: You mentioned render it down. He already had a plan 329 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: for what he was going to do after he kills 330 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: the man. You know, that's where a lot of times 331 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: people they something happens, they kill somebody, they don't know 332 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: what to do. He had a plan after death, and 333 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: you said render down. Okay, you mentioned the blender. So 334 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: step by step he's used that meat beater you talked about, 335 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: and he has killed a forty five year old man 336 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: who's been taking care of him for six years. And 337 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 1: now he has a plan how he's going to get 338 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: rid of the body. And you have said this so 339 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: many times day. People don't know what it's like to 340 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: really cut a body apart, or they will try. 341 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 2: No, they don't. They have no idea because you know, 342 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 2: you get you get involved in this. If I've got 343 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 2: somebody that's reaching for a blender, you got to tell 344 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 2: me more. Okay, because the way the way this is 345 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,719 Speaker 2: going down. You know, he actually allegedly and we have 346 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 2: to say allegedly, right because this has just happened. This 347 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 2: has just happened, y'all. And so his idea was liquefying 348 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 2: this man. So let's just take it, take, you know, 349 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 2: take this and just kind of run with it. Just 350 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 2: for a second. In what world do you think you're 351 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 2: Hamilton beat blender is going to be able to render 352 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 2: down a grown man because he started apparently, you know, 353 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: after he attacked him with this meat tenderizer. You know, 354 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 2: he he's got what's called an intrusion into the cranial vault, 355 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 2: and so he's beat him enough that the that the 356 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 2: skull has, the the structural integrity of the skull has 357 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 2: given way. And I've seen this happen where you'll have 358 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 2: severe head trauma and the skull will actually fracture off. 359 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 2: Sometimes it'll actually fracture along the future lines that we have. 360 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 2: If you've ever seen a skull, and look, Halloween's coming up, 361 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 2: you're gonna see skeletons that are everywhere. And sometimes they'll 362 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 2: do these mock up skeletons. If you'll look at an 363 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 2: actual skeleton, you know, mock up at whatever store that 364 00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 2: you're buying Halloween stuff at, you'll see these little wiggly 365 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: lines all right on the surface of the skull. Well, 366 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,880 Speaker 2: those are suture lines there there where are skull fusia 367 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 2: fuses during development, all right, And many times you'll see, 368 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 2: depend upon the strike, the type of instrument, how many 369 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 2: times the areas. Sometimes the plates of the skull will 370 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 2: actually fracture along those fusion lines that you know, our 371 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 2: skull was fusing like that came together and Mommy's tummy, right, 372 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 2: So when when we're going through birth, you know, and 373 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 2: eventually the fontinell's, you know, they all fuse together and 374 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: the soft spots disappear and all that, and our skull 375 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 2: begins to ossify, gets harder and harder. But when you 376 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 2: strike with a blunt instrument like this, you can get 377 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 2: these plates that will come about and they'll kind of float. 378 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 2: You'll have these I've heard physicians called floating skull fractures. 379 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: The only thing that's really keeping the skull, the plates 380 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 2: of the skull in places, the underlying dura matter, that's 381 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 2: that sack, that's you know, that the brain is actually 382 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 2: contained in. Well, he goes into i think into one 383 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 2: of these plates that has been fractually probably pulled the 384 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 2: cap of the thing off, maybe in a couple of places, 385 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 2: and he begins, I'm just a speculative on my part. 386 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 2: Because there's a spoon involved. We already know that there 387 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 2: was a spoon, you know, embedded in this man's eye. 388 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 2: He probably attempted to try to spoon out the brain. 389 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 2: Just let that sink in just for a second. So 390 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 2: he's there spooning out the brain, he's putting it into 391 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 2: a blender. An initial report says he showed the blended 392 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 2: brain to the sixteen year old sister of his. If 393 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 2: you can even begin to fathom that, look what I did. 394 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 2: And he's trying to liquefy this. I guess he was 395 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 2: going for the eye as well, to you know, kind 396 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 2: of you know, to spoon it out, if you will, 397 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 2: to try to liquefy it. This problem, says I. You know, 398 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 2: you begin to see people that are doing this, and 399 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 2: it's really easy to say, oh, well, he's just crazy. 400 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 2: He's just crazy. He's just doing this. Crazy would be 401 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe walking down the street with a 402 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 2: machete in one hand and holding a bloody head in 403 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: the other and screaming at the moon. All right, it's 404 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 2: not what happened. This guy becomes very procedural at this point. 405 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 2: Now listen, it's highly inefficient and ineffective. But he, like 406 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 2: you said, he's got a plan, you know, to do 407 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 2: this brother day, and he has obviously failed miserably at 408 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 2: this point. I've often thought, you know, in cases of well, 409 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 2: if you think about a homicide, you don't have a 410 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 2: firearm handy and maybe you know you Grandpappy didn't bring 411 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 2: back a samurai sword or katana sword from World War Two? 412 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 2: What are you going to choose? It's kind of like 413 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 2: that that scene in Pulp Fiction where Bruce Willis is 414 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 2: looking up, you know, looking around the pawn shop to 415 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 2: decide what weapon he's going to use, and he looks 416 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 2: up and sees it. You know, he looks at a 417 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 2: chainsaw first, and he there is a samurai katana there. 418 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: Wow. 419 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 2: You know, what are you going to choose? You know, 420 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 2: just when you had lying about the house of. 421 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: All the things, and that's not where I would have picked. 422 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: I thought that was unique for the movie, and it 423 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: just not what I would in my world. Joe. I 424 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,239 Speaker 1: know what those are like when you play with them 425 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: when you're a kid, and they're plastic and they bend, 426 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: but a real one, Yeah, I don't know. 427 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 2: Not too many people have have have access to them 428 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 2: and have certainly the training Bruce Willis seemingly came across 429 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 2: as being very effective in that movie. But you know, 430 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 2: when you begin to think about this kid and he's 431 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 2: wandering around the house and suddenly he gets and this 432 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 2: is another thing I'd like to mention, he suddenly gets 433 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 2: the urge. You know, we're talking about the totality of 434 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 2: everything you know, kind of culminating in this. But yet 435 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 2: he says to the police that he wants to he 436 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 2: wanted to know what it felt like to kill somebody. 437 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 2: I'm always fascinated by the statement with these people that 438 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 2: We've had a number of these cases where people will 439 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 2: say I wanted to know what it felt like to 440 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 2: kill somebody. They never say that about themselves, like I've 441 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 2: always wondered, you know, what it would be like to 442 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 2: throw myself in front of a train or throw myself 443 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 2: off of a building. No, they always say I always 444 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 2: wondered what it would be like to kill somebody. You know, 445 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 2: he couldn't put his mind to better use, maybe say, gee, 446 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 2: I've always wanted to learn how to cross stitch, or 447 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 2: I've always wanted to know what it would be like 448 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 2: to macro may a lampshade, or yeah, I don't know, 449 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 2: I don't you know, it's amazing to me that they 450 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 2: land on this. You know, I've always wanted to know 451 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 2: what it would feel like to kill somebody. 452 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and many of the time I've woken up in 453 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: the morning and said, Hey, today's the day. 454 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, today's the day. And so, you know, his first 455 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 2: stop along this continuum is Okay, here's my target. I'm 456 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: going after a guy that's been taking care of me. 457 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 2: And oh, by the bye, he is disabled, he's losing 458 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,719 Speaker 2: his sight, probably can't get around real well any longer. 459 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: Let's see, I'm going into the kitchen. I'm going to 460 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 2: open the drawer. Well, what does mom have in here 461 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 2: that I can use? Oh, I know a meat tenderizer. 462 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 2: And dependent upon the type of meat tenderizer it is, 463 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 2: you can get some that are very lightweight, and there 464 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 2: are some that are very heavy, almost like a mallet. 465 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 2: And apparently he chose something that was weighted enough so 466 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 2: that it's going to it's going to crack the external 467 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 2: table of skull. But going back here, before we get 468 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 2: into the the capitation, when they would examine this poor 469 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 2: victim's body back at the morgue, one of the things 470 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 2: that will that has been done, I can I can 471 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 2: almost guarantee it. His scalp would have been shaved. Okay, 472 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 2: the victim's scalp would have been shaved and would have 473 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 2: been shaved extensively. The flaps of the skin that you 474 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 2: know were probably lacerated. They would be folded back over 475 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 2: into their normal configuration and one of the things that 476 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 2: we would do in the morgue, Dave is and hopefully 477 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 2: the police brought this, this meat tenderizer mallet contraption to 478 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 2: the morgue. This does happen, by the way. They will 479 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 2: bring instruments to the morgue that are alleged to be 480 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 2: used and you can and it's really kind of cool 481 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 2: because if you have access to it and the police 482 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 2: have it in their control, they can bring it in 483 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 2: and you can appreciate the patterns, particularly like this. These 484 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 2: patterns are going to be absolutely striking when you see them. 485 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 2: I can only imagine this guy's defense attorney when he 486 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 2: sees these images from the morgue. He's going to go, 487 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 2: oh my god. Because what will happen is as the 488 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 2: scalp is struck, as that underline, even with hair, even 489 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 2: with thick hair, when it is struck, it will literally 490 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 2: leave what's referred to as a pattern abrasion, where that 491 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 2: the leading edge the face of this thing struck and 492 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 2: it will be multi dimpled. So if you think about 493 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 2: I don't know if I can do the math correctly here, 494 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 2: but if you think about maybe seven rows across and 495 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 2: maybe I don't know, ten rows ten rows up and down. 496 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 2: You're going to have each one of those rows will 497 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 2: we populated with these little pimpled, pimpled metallic surfaces, so 498 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 2: it's like a collection of teeth that are going into 499 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 2: each and every strike, the head would be shaved, and 500 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 2: they will take copious photographs just of the scalp and 501 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 2: for every photograph that they take, and they'll do scale 502 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 2: measurements in this you can actually take that same scale 503 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 2: and put it across put it adjacent to the face 504 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 2: the business end of this mallet meat tenderizer, and you 505 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 2: can show the measurement of it and guess what, dude, 506 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 2: You can take the images of the shaved head and 507 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 2: put put a scale on it as well and show 508 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 2: the dimensions of it, and guess what it's going to 509 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 2: marry up. It'll marry up. And the reason that's important 510 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 2: to describe is that can you imagine, if you're a prosecutor, 511 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 2: how powerful this would be to stand up in front 512 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 2: of a jury and say he was struck once twice, 513 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 2: three times, four times, five times, six times, seven times, 514 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 2: eight times, nine times, ten times. Maybe I don't know 515 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 2: how many times we heard the forensic pathologist sit on 516 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 2: the stand and actually say this is the number because 517 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 2: you can match it up. It's not. It's not the 518 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 2: reason this case is so intriguing just from a pattern injury. 519 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 2: It's not like he took a baseball bat that's you know, 520 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 2: cylindrical essentially. And I'm not saying that those strikes are 521 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 2: not uniform. It's not the same thing. It's getting struck 522 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 2: with a meat tenderizer, because you can see it every 523 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 2: single time the thing is machined. Is it's meant to 524 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 2: tend to ize meat. It's meant to deliver that kinetic energy, 525 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 2: you know, transferring from the arm as it's swung down 526 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 2: on top of this man's head. And that's going to 527 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 2: be demonstrative in court. 528 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: Dave, all right, so now he's taken off the top, 529 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: said pretty much. He has immobilized him. And he gets 530 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: into the bathroom and he is now going to remove 531 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: the head. He's going to remove the skull from the 532 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: top of the body. Yeah, and he's going to set 533 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: it off to the side. What's he going to use, 534 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: Joe to remove the head? 535 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 2: Well, whatever's whatever's handy. In this particular case, this perpetrator, 536 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 2: Dave started out with what they're terming as a kitchen knife, 537 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 2: and look, there's there's a whole variety of kitchen knives. 538 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 2: They tell you something interesting about my household with with 539 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 2: my beautiful wife, Kimmy her family. They refer to butter 540 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 2: knives as case knives. I'd never heard that term before. Yeah, 541 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:44,280 Speaker 2: case knives, and now there are Case brand pocket knives, 542 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 2: but you know, case knife to her was like a 543 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 2: butter knife. Okay, so you know, do you have another 544 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 2: case knife? And she would say that to me. It's like, 545 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 2: you know, her family's from Missouri. They use the term 546 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 2: via duct all the time, and I'm like, what the 547 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 2: Hell's a via duct? And it's an overpass or whatever. 548 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 2: So yeah, and you see them around the country. It's 549 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,959 Speaker 2: just it's you know, it's a regional. But anyway, yeah, 550 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 2: so you got this variety of knives, you know that 551 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 2: are in the drawers. I've got stuff in in in 552 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 2: my utensil drawers at home. I have no idea, you know, 553 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 2: I can pick this thing up and say what is this? 554 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,680 Speaker 2: Where did I get this from? I've got like an orange, 555 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 2: an orange slicer, an apple slicer, and all these sorts 556 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 2: of things. I don't know. When's the last time I 557 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 2: reused one of these things. But it's sitting in a drawer, 558 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 2: you know, I'm thinking about it, Oh, when it's sitting 559 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 2: right next to my meat tender riser, that's in the drawers. 560 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: We did the episode on the Burning Man Killer. Yeah, 561 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: I went because you made that knife so appealing. I'm like, 562 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 1: I got to get me one of those. So now 563 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: I've got one. I'm so I'm not. I got it 564 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,399 Speaker 1: after the guy was killed. Okay, okay, good. I wanted 565 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: to make sure I don't want to miss out. That 566 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 1: sounded like a pretty cool life. 567 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 2: It is. It is. It is interesting. 568 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 1: And I got a meat beater thing too. 569 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 2: There you go, well, there you go. Uh and and 570 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 2: with with this, he appeared he started out with some 571 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,959 Speaker 2: non specific kitchen knife to try to decapitate this guy 572 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 2: with it wasn't working. So guess what Homie does. He 573 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 2: goes out to the shed and retrieves a saw. And 574 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 2: it's that and again they're non specific, is it. And 575 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 2: there's a variety of saws We've got, you know, carpenter saw, 576 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 2: there's a hacksaw. We've got limb sauce, which I've had. 577 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember I think her name 578 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 2: who I hope I don't get this wrong, ingrid Lend. 579 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 2: I think the case out of Seattle, Washington. It was 580 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 2: a tender date. Her date happened to be a homeless guy. 581 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:42,919 Speaker 2: She went out on a date with this guy, went 582 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 2: to a Mariner's ball game, and he got her home 583 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 2: and he he dismembered her with a limb saw, which 584 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 2: is one of the bow kind of saws. It's got 585 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 2: the single blade. I don't know if you recall that. 586 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 2: And they took apart her plumbing in the house because 587 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 2: he had done it in the bathtub. Well, this guy 588 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 2: goes out and he retrieves a saw from the shed, 589 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 2: having now experienced what it's like to kill somebody. Finally 590 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 2: you got to feel what that was like. So I 591 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 2: guess now he's decided I want to know what it's 592 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 2: like to render a body down. So he's got it. 593 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 2: There's a lot of things going on. He's gone and 594 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 2: gotten mom's Hamilton beach blender, and I'm just throwing that 595 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 2: out there. It's the first, you know, brand that comes 596 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:23,959 Speaker 2: to mind. He could be one of those ninja things 597 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 2: for all I know. But he comes and brings this 598 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 2: back and I'm wondering if he's taking it and plugged 599 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 2: it into the bathroom. I'm assuming he has unless he's 600 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 2: walking up and down the hallway with body parts brain specifically, 601 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 2: and then going to the kitchen counter and putting putting 602 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 2: the contents in his hands and transforming in there. My 603 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 2: suspicion is it's in the bathroom, and if he didn't 604 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 2: put the lid on the thing. I mean, how many 605 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 2: times have you ever have you ever used used a blender? 606 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 2: My daughter was trying to make margaritas one time we 607 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 2: were at the beach and the lid was not on. 608 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 2: We spent the rest of the evening cleaning up the 609 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 2: floor because it stuff one everywhere, you know, so you're 610 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 2: going to have blood trace evidence that's certainly going to 611 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 2: be rather profuse. That's inside of the blender. I don't 612 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 2: know the I don't even know what you call a 613 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 2: blender container. You know that's got the little blades in it. 614 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 2: You're going to have that that's going to have this 615 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 2: guy's DNA in it, along with any kind of tissue 616 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 2: that's caught up in this thing, any other bits of hair, skin, 617 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 2: anything that went in there. And you're going tons of 618 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 2: trace evidence, and then the the trace evidence that's created 619 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 2: just by sawing. This guy's are decapitating him with a saw. 620 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 2: You're actually gonna dave. You're actually gonna have bone dust 621 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 2: here as well. You know, bone dust, You're going to 622 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 2: have any any connective tissue that's in there. Obviously, you're 623 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 2: gonna have blood. You'll have all the soft tissues, whether 624 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 2: it's skin, the fashion, the muscle. You'll have vessels that 625 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 2: are that become detached. You know, when when this exercise 626 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 2: is said and done and he's got blood on him, 627 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 2: you know, he's got blood on him, and I'm wondering where, 628 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 2: you know, like are hopefully I'm hoping that they collected 629 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,280 Speaker 2: all of his clothing. One of the things that happens 630 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 2: is is that when you get a suspect like this 631 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 2: and you get them back to you know, to the Hooscal, 632 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 2: you're going to go get first off, you're going to 633 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 2: have them strip uh. There's an evidence technician that is 634 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 2: in fact standing by. If you're you know, if you're 635 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 2: in blood soak clothes, they're going to collect those from 636 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,800 Speaker 2: you individually. They're going to take pictures of you, possibly 637 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 2: in the nude, with your arms extended, you're going to 638 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 2: take They're going to take pictures of your hands, both 639 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,359 Speaker 2: uh the ventral and the dorsom, up and down the arms. 640 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 2: They're going to take pictures of your face, the whole 641 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 2: nine yards. They're going to document every inch of this 642 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 2: guy's body, any blood that's there, any marks that are there, 643 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 2: and they're going to collect his clothing and it'll be 644 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 2: taken back to the crime lab where it will be assessed, 645 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 2: and they'll collect all the DNA. There's no way I 646 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 2: can't imagine in any circumstances that a judge is going 647 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 2: to grant this guy, grant this guy the possibility of 648 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 2: getting out of jail because of this evidence. The evidence 649 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 2: when this thing is presented to the grand jury is 650 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 2: going to be so incredibly overwhelming day and the whole 651 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 2: thing is so very tragic along the way when you 652 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 2: think about what this poor victim was doing for this 653 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 2: young man. 654 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: All he was doing was helping raise a couple of 655 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: kids with their mom. That's all he was doing for 656 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,280 Speaker 1: the last six years. Yeah, and by the way, dealing 657 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: with a nineteen year old with mental health issues. The 658 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: guy had to have been a saint, you know, because 659 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 1: he was there every day on disability, losing his eyesight 660 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: every day, and this is how he gets repaid. I'm 661 00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,439 Speaker 1: thinking about the trauma that's going to extend out too, 662 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:04,359 Speaker 1: because the sixteen year old daughter who comes home and 663 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: the nineteen year old brother says, you need to go 664 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,359 Speaker 1: to your room. I've done something bad, and she says, no, man. 665 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: She follows the blood trail to the bathroom and finds her. Well, 666 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: he's been there six years. That's a step dad. And 667 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,800 Speaker 1: his head is now sitting there severed from his body. 668 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: There's a spin sticking out of his mouth, out of 669 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: his ear, I mean, out of his eye. And they 670 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: said he tried to use a hammer to get the 671 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,160 Speaker 1: brain out, and I think, what do you do? He 672 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: couldn't get it all the way out, and so he 673 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: used the hook end of it to try to cry 674 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: it out. I mean, this goes beyond anything, Joe, that 675 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,360 Speaker 1: I've ever thought we would talk about on this show. 676 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: And by the way, it's happening now. As you mentioned earlier, 677 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 1: this is not an old show, This is not an 678 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 1: old story. This is now. 679 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we rarely do really old old I mean 680 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 2: unless something tickles my fancy relative to histrionics. But in 681 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 2: this case, you had this guy and he did involve 682 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 2: a hammer in this as well. You know, it's almost like, 683 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,280 Speaker 2: you know, I'm thinking almost a primal level, like somebody, 684 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 2: you know, some animal trying to crack up in a 685 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,919 Speaker 2: coconut to get to the interior of this thing using 686 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,720 Speaker 2: utilizing whatever they have with it's a rock or whatever. 687 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 2: And you know, he probably would have used a rock, 688 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 2: if that's what he had at his disposal, uh, to 689 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 2: try to break break this man's body down into elements 690 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 2: that could in fact be dissolved. Uh. You know, and 691 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 2: he used the term liquefied allegedly when making this admission 692 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 2: to the police. Of course, you know he's going to 693 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,359 Speaker 2: have a team of lawyers or a lawyer that is 694 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 2: going to defend him and say that you know, he 695 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 2: he he didn't do this, he has no knowledge of it. 696 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 2: I'm just waiting to hear to see if if they 697 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 2: used the old I blacked out and I didn't remember anything, 698 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 2: and the next thing I knew, I woke up and 699 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 2: I was covered with blood. We'll see what happens relative 700 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,960 Speaker 2: to this, But you know, I gotta tell you, man, 701 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 2: this gentleman, this gentleman that you know, that gave of himself, 702 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:14,360 Speaker 2: gave of his home and opened his door to you know, 703 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,879 Speaker 2: not just this woman who claims that she still loved him. 704 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 2: That's a statement that she actually made to the boy, 705 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 2: to the nineteen year olds, she said, why did you 706 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,840 Speaker 2: do this? I still loved him, which is an odd 707 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,360 Speaker 2: statement in and of itself. He not only gave of 708 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 2: himself to this woman, but also to her children, his time, 709 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:43,480 Speaker 2: his money, his resources, maybe even his wise counsel at 710 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,600 Speaker 2: some point in time, trying to help him become a 711 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 2: better person, a better man, hopefully in the future. And 712 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,399 Speaker 2: it's not that this is a failure on victim Anthony's part. 713 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 2: This is a failure on the part and let's say 714 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,800 Speaker 2: it plainly, on the part of the perpetry in this case. 715 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,799 Speaker 2: He's creature free will. He's one that retrieved a meat tenderizer. 716 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 2: He's the one that you know, retrieved a hammer. He's 717 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 2: one that retrieved a kitchen knife. He's the one that 718 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 2: retrieved retrieved a saw. He's one that retrieved a blender. 719 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:25,520 Speaker 2: No one else did this. It's a sad case, it's 720 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:30,960 Speaker 2: very tragic and hopefully, hopefully if there is justice in 721 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 2: this world. It will come about. But we do know this. 722 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 2: We do know that this family and this man's extended 723 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 2: family is scarred forever and ever because this case is 724 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:50,439 Speaker 2: the stuff of nightmares. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this 725 00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:52,360 Speaker 2: is bodybags.