1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to my show, Money Making Conversation Masterclass. I'm your 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: host with Sean McDonald. I recognize that we all have 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: different definitions of success. For you and maybe the size 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: of your paycheck. Mine is inspiring people to develop their 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: plan to reach their dreams. It's time to stop reading 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: other people's success stories and start writing your own. You 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: can only exceed expectation by leaving in yourself. People always 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: talk about their purpose or gifts. If you have a gift, 9 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: leave with your gifts and don't let your friends, family, 10 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: or coworkers stop you from planning or living your dreams. 11 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: My guest is Tanya Lewis Lee and twenty twenty two. 12 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: Indie Wire featured Tanya on their twenty twenty two Rising 13 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: Female Filmmakers to Watch. She's a producer, film director, writer, entrepreneur, 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: and women's health advocate, delivering meaningful content that resonates with 15 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: marginalized communities for over twenty years on the heels of 16 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: our influential children's book, The US Department of Health partner 17 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: with Tanya as the spokesperson for a Healthy Baby Begins 18 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: Which You Infant Mortality awareness campaign from two thousand and 19 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: seven to twenty thirteen. Tanya's on the show today to 20 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: discuss her new documentary following the deaths of two young 21 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: women due to childbirth complications to breed families, galvanized activists, 22 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: birth workers, and physicians to reckon with one of the 23 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: most pressing American crisis today, the US maternal health crisis. 24 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: Lee co directed co produced After Shock, which after Shock 25 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: Excuse me, which examines the US maternity mortality crisis. It 26 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: currently is Aaron on Hulu. Please welcome to the Money 27 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 1: Making Conversation Masterclass, the wonderful Tanya Lewis Lee. 28 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: How you doing. 29 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 3: I'm good, Rashan, thank you so much for that wonderful introduction, 30 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 3: and I'm happy to be here in conversation with you 31 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 3: about the film. 32 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: We know our want. 33 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: The reason I hopefully I did you justice in your 34 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: intro because to do a documentary like this, there has 35 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: to be some history, has to be a person who 36 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: just didn't have a good idea, came across a good 37 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: story and made this amazing documentary and by at least 38 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: giving this background and it'll let them know that a 39 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: lot of emotional, a lot of history, a lot of 40 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,279 Speaker 1: experience went into creating Aftershock. 41 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,399 Speaker 2: Tell us about how you got involved with this project. 42 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 3: Yes, then, like I said, I really did appreciate your introduction, 43 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 3: because you know, it was because of my children's book, 44 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 3: Please Baby, Please, that the US Department of Health and 45 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 3: Human Services reached out to me and asked me to 46 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 3: be a spokesperson where their infant mortality awareness raising campaign, 47 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,399 Speaker 3: A Healthy Baby Begins with You. And it was through 48 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 3: that campaign that I was able to travel the country 49 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 3: and learn first of all about infant mortality. 50 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,119 Speaker 4: I didn't realize the US. 51 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 3: At the time when I first started had an issue 52 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 3: with into mortality in the United States. I didn't realize 53 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,119 Speaker 3: that black babies, like black mothers, are dying at three 54 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 3: to four times the rate of white babies in this country, 55 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 3: and I didn't know about so I didn't know about 56 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 3: the disparity. So through my travel, I had the opportunity 57 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: to meet and talk with lots of women. Inevitably, a 58 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 3: woman would tell me a story about a friend, a sister, cousin, 59 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 3: somebody who had passed away. 60 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 4: From childbirth complications. 61 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 3: So it had been something that I had been thinking 62 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 3: about for a while because I was hearing it firsthand 63 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 3: from the community. And then back in twenty seventeen, twenty 64 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 3: eighteen of the New York Times pro Publica started reporting 65 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 3: on the issue of maternal mortality here in this country, 66 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 3: and it seemed like then was the time to really 67 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: go out there and make this film to raise the 68 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 3: awareness so that we can do things to bring the 69 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 3: make for better outcomes. 70 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about that, making the fan, producing it, 71 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: getting the concept in place, because this is a personal 72 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: project from a standpoint, is about African Americans. It's about 73 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: them being at the high end of the mortality rate. 74 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: It's also some history. It tells you. 75 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: This is a documentary and informs it educates you, especially 76 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: in how would you when you presented this project and 77 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: start producing it. Were there any pushback or people didn't 78 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: understand exactly the message you was trying to deliver with aftershock? 79 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting. 80 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 3: I do think that when we first started working on 81 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 3: the film, not so much pushback, but I think that 82 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 3: people did like, what is this really about? How are 83 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 3: you really going to tell the story? Because it is 84 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 3: such a huge systemic issue, And I think initially some 85 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 3: people thought, well, it's about black women's health, so it 86 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 3: shouldn't cost so much. Your budgets too high bring it down, 87 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 3: and we really felt like the story needed to be 88 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 3: told in a way through people's lived experience, not as 89 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 3: a survey film just people talking to camera, although we 90 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 3: do have a couple of experts, and we felt that 91 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 3: the film deserved to be told the right way, and 92 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 3: so it would cost what it would cost to make it, 93 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 3: and we stuck to our guns made the film that 94 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 3: we wanted to make. 95 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: Well, you know, what people don't take in perspective is 96 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: that when you're dealing with emotions, they can't be action. Okay, 97 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: it has to be captured, it has to be it 98 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: has to be authentic, it has to be there for 99 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: the moments. So sometimes hours, sometimes days are put into 100 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 1: perspective to gather those moments because this is an emotionally 101 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: charged documentary because it involves death. And that's which leads 102 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: to the title after shock, you know, because of the 103 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: fact that you know, you always hear this when children 104 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: die before their parents. They say no, no parent wants 105 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: to bury their child. The goal is for the child 106 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: to outlive the parents. And this situation is about relationships. 107 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: How did you encounter the individual that you are featuring 108 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: in your documentary. 109 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was really something else. 110 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 3: Shermani Gibson passed away in October twenty nineteen. In December 111 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, her mother and her part her mother Shawnnie 112 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 3: Gibson and her partner Amari Maynard, decided to have an 113 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 3: event that they called Aftershock, which was essentially a celebration 114 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 3: of Shamani's life, but at the same time, they wanted 115 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 3: to have a conversation with the community, so they put 116 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 3: out an invitation on social. 117 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 4: Media that we saw. 118 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 3: We reached out to Shawnnie and to Omari and asked 119 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 3: if we could film, and you know, it was really 120 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 3: wonderful that they allowed us to come in and film 121 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 3: because they wanted the word to get out about not 122 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 3: just what happened to Shamani, but about the birthing outcomes 123 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 3: in the black community. And Amari was someone who is 124 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 3: someone who when he hears of a father who has 125 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 3: been left behind because his partner has passed away from 126 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 3: childbirth complications, he reaches out to them and says, hey, brother, 127 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 3: I got you. 128 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 4: I'm here to support you. 129 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 3: And he did that for Bruce McIntyre when Amber Rose 130 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 3: Isaac passed. 131 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 4: Away in April of twenty twenty. 132 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 3: And he reached out to him just to offer support, 133 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 3: told him about the film, and then and then Bruce, 134 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 3: you know, joined with us and so and for the 135 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 3: same reason because a week after Amber passed away, Bruce 136 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 3: had a press conference because he wanted to be in 137 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 3: conversation with community. 138 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 4: He wanted to demand accountability. 139 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 3: For Amber's death, but he also wanted to have the conversation. 140 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 3: And so we were very fortunate that we were. 141 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 4: Able to catch up with. 142 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 3: Shani Omari and Bruce so that we could tell the 143 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 3: story because they wanted to tell the story. 144 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: Just talking to our audience. You know, I love talking 145 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: to talented people like Tanya Lewis Lee. You know, she said, 146 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: we've reached out to them and now they allowed us 147 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: to come in. 148 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 2: You better have a name you can google. You better 149 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: have a reputation, you. 150 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: Better have a brand, You better have an awareness that 151 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: you just don't call somebody at a very dark emotional 152 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: moment in life and said, we want to come in 153 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: and videotape without a reputation, that they know you have 154 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: their that you have their goodwill at heart. This is 155 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty two I said to the top rising 156 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: filmmaker to watch By ind Wire and that reputation that 157 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: you've developed over the year is part of your brand 158 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: allows you to get in a door and use your 159 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: name to be able to not only push back on 160 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: the money, which. 161 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 2: I was really taking it back. We said, well, this 162 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 2: black woman, why is it so high? 163 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 3: You know? 164 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: And they we get that. We get that a lot 165 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: because I've been in the television business for a long time. 166 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: When I was a Steve Harvey was over the WB 167 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: and the WB sitcoms were cheaper produced even though it 168 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: was on the same platform as a white sitcom. So 169 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: the dollar wealth gap they talk about in the world 170 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: is also entertainment too, by the way, if y'all don't 171 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: know that, and so you have to deal with those 172 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: issues and you're able to overcome it. 173 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: Is it the relationships? 174 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: Is it being able to have the resume that you have, 175 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: the experience, be able to counter the conversation that allows 176 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: you to be successful and this really polarized tainment business 177 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: that we call, you know, supposed to be equally equal. 178 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that it is true. 179 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 3: I mean, having having a reputation, having a you know. 180 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 4: A track record, if you will, certainly does help. 181 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 3: And stacking the deck as you go, right, Dawn Porter 182 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 3: is also an amazing documentary filmmaker who's an executive producer 183 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 3: on our film Aftershock. Uh, and so having her there, 184 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 3: you know, you're right, Shawnnie, o'mari and Bruce were very 185 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 3: aware of myself and my work and so and they 186 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 3: trusted me. You know, we Shawnie and o'mari from Brooklyn. Uh, 187 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 3: you know, we are Brooklyn people. They they know my 188 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 3: husband is, you know, represent the Republic of Brooklyn all 189 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 3: the time. 190 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 4: So there is that comfort. 191 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 3: And I'll tell you I felt a real responsibility to 192 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 3: make sure that we honored uh Shamani and Amber and 193 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 3: represented the family in a way that is authentic and 194 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 3: true to the spirit of who they are. 195 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 5: We'll be right back with more Money Making Conversations Masterclass 196 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 5: with Rushaan McDonald. Now, let's return to Money Making Conversations 197 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 5: Masterclass with Rushan McDonald. 198 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 2: Really interesting. 199 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: When I got an opportunity, when the interview came to me, 200 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: it came across my daskings. We show you got an interview, 201 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: I got an interviewer, and I go, Okay, what's she doing, 202 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: what's she talking about? And then when they when they 203 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: when they sent me the log line on the doctor bentary. 204 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: I have six sisters, Okay and uh, and so I 205 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: come from a family, a big family, nine kids. Both 206 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: my parents are stayed in a home with us for 207 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: Inner City, and so I'm very much aware. 208 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 2: Of a sudden loss of life. 209 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: So I know that, you know, sometimes you have to 210 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: be honest with your audience and let them know that 211 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: this is not just a story. To me, It's a 212 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: personal journey. The emotional loss, the sunniness, the shock, the anger, 213 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: the comfort that you don't care about, you know, because 214 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: the comfort can't change what has happened, the future that 215 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,599 Speaker 1: you were planning that is cut off, you know, the plans. 216 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: It's just so many emotions unless you've personally been there. 217 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: And I was personally engaged with the two men who 218 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: are prominently featured in your documentary because I was shocked 219 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: and still shocked. I still think, I still reminiss, I 220 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: still do the what ifs, and so all these things 221 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: you have to take into perspective doing this. You have 222 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: to be a level of sensitivity that this is beyond 223 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 1: just recording a story. 224 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 2: This is a. 225 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: Journey that they guess what we will never forget. I 226 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: will never turn my back onto what IFFs I will 227 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: never forget those moments of moments, but it's something that you, 228 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: through through brilliant hands and experience, have allowed me to 229 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: take that journey again, and I thought I would never 230 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: do that again. 231 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 3: Tony Well, Well, I do hope that in watching their 232 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 3: journey Amari Maynard and Bruce McIntyre, that there is comfort 233 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 3: in that because you are not alone. 234 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 4: And I think that there are a lot of men. 235 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 3: And one of the things that I think is really 236 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 3: exciting to come out of the film because of Bruce 237 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 3: and Omari, is that black men and men in general 238 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 3: are talking about paternal mental health, right. I think you know, 239 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 3: often when a woman has a child, we think of 240 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 3: maternal health as just just being about a woman, but 241 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 3: it is about a man too, because it still takes 242 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 3: two to make a baby, and men go through the 243 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 3: process as well, and then when there's a loss, they're 244 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 3: the ones left behind, as in our case, to raise 245 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 3: the children on their own, and they need support and 246 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 3: they have learned Bruce and Omari how to support one another, 247 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 3: how to support other fathers really engage in this conversation 248 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 3: of what does it mean to be a man to have. 249 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 4: Lost in this way? 250 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: I think it's a really great opportunity for us to 251 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 3: have that conversation, get men talking more, being more vulnerabout 252 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 3: with their feelings with each other so that they too 253 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 3: can heal. 254 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: And it's important. 255 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: And like I said, when when I look at what 256 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: you are doing and what you're presenting, and you know 257 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: we're talking to Tanya Lewis Lee a documentary which is 258 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: Aaron currently on Hulus called Aftershock. What I did realize 259 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: is that you always hear that term it's a miracle 260 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: to have a healthy baby. When something like this happens 261 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: to you, you realize that it's absolutely the truth. It 262 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: is a miracle to go through the birth process. I'm 263 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: talking about their mom. It's a miracle for the baby 264 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: to come health out healthy. You know, every day after 265 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: that baby's born, you're touching them, you making sure they're 266 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: breathing you. 267 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 2: You just it's just a journey. 268 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: Need making sure they sit up right, to make sure 269 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: they when they lean to left, lean to the left. 270 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: All those journeys and all those stories are being told 271 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 1: in your documentary because it's over a seriou. 272 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 2: It's not just a six month period years. As you 273 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:14,479 Speaker 2: see the growth. 274 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: And is shown in footage when you're putting the piece 275 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: in all this together. What is your thought process, Tanya 276 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: and Tanya and making sure that we understand the journey, 277 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: the pain, and potential results of what you're trying to 278 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: accomplish with this documentary. 279 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really important for us to tell the 280 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 3: story of the US maternal mortality crisis through the people 281 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 3: who have lost. 282 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 4: At the same time, we wanted to balance that. 283 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 3: With solutions because this is not something that we can't fix. 284 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 4: We did not want the film to be. 285 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 3: Just sad and tell you a problem and then leave 286 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 3: you with like, now what, and so we really and 287 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 3: we also wanted to give you content X of how 288 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 3: we got here, So we talk a little bit about history. 289 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,479 Speaker 4: We balance out with experts who explain to us. 290 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 3: How we got here, what are the problems, and how 291 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 3: do we fix it. I also have to say that Shawnnie, 292 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 3: o'mari and Bruce are activists. So they did they did 293 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 3: lose their family member, but they also became very activated 294 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 3: and they are inspirational in that they turn their pain 295 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 3: into power, as Amari says in the film, and are 296 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 3: really trying to make it better and not just for 297 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 3: their family, but for all of us. So that we 298 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 3: can have better outcomes. So it was really important with 299 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 3: the film to balance sort of the hard truth with 300 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 3: what can be positive, the positive potential outcomes that we 301 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 3: can have, and to showcase that there are a lot 302 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 3: of people on the ground doing this work. There are 303 00:15:53,640 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 3: reproductive rights, reproductive justice rights, reproductive rights people out there 304 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 3: doing the work, warriors doing the work every day, getting 305 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 3: very little shine, very little money for the for the 306 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 3: fact of all of us. 307 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: You know what what what angers me and it's a positive, 308 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: well I should say positive, is that you know, their 309 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: loss forced them become an expert, forced them to become 310 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: an expert, and that's not right. And that's what shine 311 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: the most out of this documentary is that the whole 312 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: documentary is about is not right. 313 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 2: It should not be happening. 314 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: And these two men, in this entire family of experts 315 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: and galvanized to for a greater cause, are here because 316 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: people the system failed them. The system failed them, and 317 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: so many ways it failed them. And some of it's 318 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: tied to because any lead project, they're going to lead 319 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: projects is going to educate you, by the way, and 320 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: then they know you went into the educational book and 321 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: I'm gaining knowledge when you realize that, you know, CE 322 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: sections make money. 323 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 2: They do the hospital that's the big payer. 324 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: We're going to do a C section. It's going to 325 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: make us some money. And then but I really really 326 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: got into a portion of the documentary when we were 327 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: talking about midwives and that really you know, I actually 328 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: played that back. You know, I went, this is really 329 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: because you know, I don't think I know it all. 330 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: But when I see if my minors sociology black history 331 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: was was my minor in college, got my little straight age, 332 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: and when I get information that delves into this area, 333 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: I go, you got to be kidding me. But when 334 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: you hear the truth, how stunned were you or were 335 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: you aware when you started doing this research in reading 336 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: about the midwives. 337 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, the midwives situation is when you really think about it, 338 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 3: it is so crazy. The United States is the only 339 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 3: developed nation that does not have midwives integrated into women's health, 340 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 3: and that is based on a racist premise because black 341 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 3: midwives were were those that took care of everyone giving 342 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 3: birth back in the day, not just black women but 343 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 3: white women too. 344 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 4: But when modern medicine came in, they took the. 345 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 3: Economy of birthing out of the hands of black women, 346 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 3: put it into the hands of doctors. White doctors put 347 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 3: and trying to push us all to go into hospitals 348 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 3: so that they could have the economy, and then launched 349 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 3: a campaign against midwives, telling us that they're dirty, they're witches, 350 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 3: they're dangerous. 351 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 4: That still exists today, and it. 352 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 3: Is it is. It is not good for us, it's 353 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 3: killing us. And so I was actually really surprised by 354 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 3: that and really grateful to Helena Grant, who is the 355 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,239 Speaker 3: midwife in the film, who is an amazing historian. 356 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 2: Amazing, don't say one more time, Tanya, amazing. 357 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 4: Amazing Helena Grant. 358 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 3: We could have had an entire film with just a 359 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 3: camera on Helena telling us so much. There was so 360 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 3: much we couldn't put into the film that she educated 361 00:18:58,280 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 3: us on. 362 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 5: We'll be right back with more Money Making Conversations Masterclass 363 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 5: with Rushan McDonald. Now, let's return to Money Making Conversations 364 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 5: Masterclass with Rashaan McDonald. 365 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 1: You know we always talk about you know, you hear 366 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: this critical theory that runs around and people don't want 367 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 1: to give you the facts about life and history. And 368 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: this is one of those great moments when I hear 369 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: about people trying to deny actual history. This is something 370 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: that happened, is something that is because it happened. That 371 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: means it's happening today. That means that people have been 372 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: outlawed and participating who cared about the process instead of 373 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: being hired to do the process. 374 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 2: Which is a big difference. 375 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: And you guys make that distinction in aftershock talk about that. 376 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, I think that again with midwives, 377 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 3: they were there, they are still there. I mean, the 378 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 3: idea is to educate you about your body. Right, A 379 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 3: midwife is there from before you get pregnant to why 380 00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 3: you're pregnant postpartum. 381 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 4: A lot most of these deaths happened postpartum, and midwives 382 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 4: are there to watch you, educate you about your body, and. 383 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 3: Really empower you so that your body can do what 384 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 3: you needed to do. The thing about gynecologists and obstetricians 385 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 3: is that they're they're really surgeons, and so they're really 386 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 3: looking for a problem. 387 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 4: You know, they're and they're ready to operate. 388 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 3: And again I just want to say se sections are 389 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 3: really important. Thank god we have them because they are 390 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 3: necessary in the right situation. But what has happened in 391 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 3: this country as you mentioned is that it's become about money, 392 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 3: it's to come about the economics. So we find ourselves 393 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 3: sort of rushed and pushed into unnecessary sea sections, which 394 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 3: are major surgery, which will cause which can cause problems 395 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 3: later down the line. 396 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 2: Tanya Lewis Lee, my wife had a beautiful daughter. 397 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: Okay, And when the opportunity presented itself, they said, mister 398 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: mc donald, would you like to be in the room 399 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: while your wife delivers? 400 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 2: I said no, I said, I wait outside. 401 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: Please let me know when that beautiful child is born, 402 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: and I come in with all the drama, all the trauma, 403 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: all that is gone, ladies, said. 404 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 2: Jentleber after shot. 405 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 6: I was shot because I got to see you the 406 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 6: actual delivery of a child. Now I say that, I 407 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,400 Speaker 6: don't know if I should say thank you for allowing 408 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 6: me to see that, because I wasn't traumatized like I 409 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 6: thought I would be. But the fact that you were 410 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 6: able to I wouldn't say the word convince a couple 411 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 6: to allow that to be filmed, but it would talk 412 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 6: about that whole process that because that was amazing. 413 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 3: Yeah again again, we were so lucky to find an 414 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 3: amazing couple. 415 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 4: We didn't have to convince them. 416 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 3: You know, Felicia and Paul Ellis they you know, Felicia 417 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 3: was pregnant in Tulsa, Oklahoma. 418 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 4: There was a duela service there. The Tulsa Birth. 419 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 3: Equity Initiative reached out to her and said we can 420 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 3: we can get you a duela if you'd like, and 421 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 3: she said yes, and that's how we met Felicia. Blicia 422 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 3: wanted to share her experience because, as she says in 423 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 3: the film, being a black woman, a pregnant black woman 424 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 3: is like being a black man at a traffic stop. 425 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 4: You have to pay attention every step of the way. 426 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 3: So she was really willing to allow us to go 427 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 3: on the journey with her. And again, as she says 428 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 3: in the film, she's thinking she's just going to have 429 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 3: give birth the regular way, you know, with a doctor 430 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 3: and at a hospital. But then towards the end of 431 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 3: her pregnancy, she's like, wait a minute, maybe there's another way, 432 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 3: and allowed us to go with her and find the 433 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 3: birthing center and the midwives that would attend with her 434 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 3: at her birth, and her husband attended with her. 435 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 4: She was glad we got you to see the birth. 436 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: How you're traumatizing that one at Lee if we ever realip. 437 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 2: Now you took your board down the road. I thought 438 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 2: I wouldn't go see again ever in my life. But 439 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 2: I want to thank you. I want to thank you. 440 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: I want to thank you because of who you are, 441 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: because you people trusted you. You're telling a very powerful story, 442 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 1: a very needy story. After Shock, which is currently airing 443 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: on Hulu. It examines the you as of maternal mortality crisis. 444 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: And always when you hear the word crisis, somehow it 445 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: just falls heavily on the black and brown community. And 446 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: we talk about that, and it must be talked, and 447 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: it will continue to be talked. And I just I 448 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: know we're about to wrap up. I will tell you 449 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: something about me personally. I for somehow, my life has 450 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 1: been interesting. When I was a senior in high school, 451 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: way back in nineteen seventy six, I was I did 452 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: a report. My senior class report was about morphine babies, 453 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: babies who were born addicted to drugs. So I've always 454 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: had this journey, this this knowledge to make it right 455 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: within the black community and to know and then then 456 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: to go from nineteen seventy six to see your documentary 457 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two. All think I said is wow. Wow, 458 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: that's a blessing. That's a blessing to know that I've 459 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: met a person who has the same values I have. 460 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: I didn't continue down that lane, but you brought me back, 461 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: and you brought me back with a slap upside the 462 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: head said, boy, get back in that sated will you will? 463 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: You would head it down the right track. I will 464 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,479 Speaker 1: promote this for you. I would tell people about it 465 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: as much as I can possibly tell of my social 466 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: media and my newsletters and everything. Fantastic project. Congratulations to 467 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: Hulu for allowing you to have this documentary over I 468 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: know a lot of over that on X collection. 469 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 2: They're great people. 470 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: And again thank you for coming on Money Making Conversation 471 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: master Class. 472 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for the conversation with Sean. What 473 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 4: a pleasure. 474 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: Thank you And if you want to see this video 475 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: or here, please go to money Making Conversation dot com 476 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: um with Sean McDonald. 477 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 2: I am your host.