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Speaker 1: Three to one. Hey, well up, welcome in. I'm godly been.

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Speaker 1: This is all ball. Um Bill self is our guest.

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Speaker 1: He's been a friend of mine for I mean, I

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Speaker 1: guess twenty years. I mean we respect when we were

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Speaker 1: at when I was Oklaham State, he was at Tulsa.

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Speaker 1: We had an incredible amount of respect for coach self

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Speaker 1: back then. Of course he beat him when he was

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Speaker 1: at or Roberts as well, beat Oklam State, or Roberts

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Speaker 1: Petterm Tulsa and then coach and stopped playing him rightfully.

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Speaker 1: So I just want a national championship. We'll talk about

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Speaker 1: that team. We'll talk about some other stuff, him getting

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Speaker 1: into coaching. We'll talk name, imagine, likeness things as well.

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Speaker 1: Um I also, I also wanted to point out, and

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Speaker 1: it's really really important when we're looking at these NBA playoffs. Okay,

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Speaker 1: some of the markers that you need if you want

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Speaker 1: to be competitive in two thousand two, and the versatility

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Speaker 1: needed on the defensive side of the ball is so apparent. Guy,

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Speaker 1: I really like the construction of the Celtics team. Like

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they can you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: if they absolutely win this series, but their versatility, the

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Speaker 1: ability to just throw numbers of six, five to six, eight, six,

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Speaker 1: nine dudes at Kevin Durant, length, strength, athleticism, and then offensively,

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Speaker 1: you know, they can all shoot, you know, except for

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Speaker 1: Robert Williams, who's a brim protector dunker. So I think

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Speaker 1: sometimes you have to look at Miami and the versatility

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Speaker 1: of I mean, Trey Young was like he would dribble

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Speaker 1: into switches. But I mean bam Aldebio's tremendous defenders. Ammy Butler. Uh,

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Speaker 1: just kind of go through the list of guys they

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Speaker 1: have they can all guard. There's there were just no

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Speaker 1: mismatches that could be created. So I think when when

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Speaker 1: you're looking at teams and how they're constructed, that's a

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Speaker 1: very very important element. All Right. Our last part was

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Speaker 1: Adam Finkelstein. He's a recruiting guru, and we talked a

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Speaker 1: lot about recruiting Bill self. Uh, I, you're gonna love this, Okay.

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Speaker 1: There's so much good stuff in historically growing up or

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Speaker 1: Roberts play in Oaklahoma State. Um some WAYMNTI stale stuff

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Speaker 1: in there, getting the Kansas job, winning two national championships. Also,

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Speaker 1: name Ima just liked us so without further ado, he's

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Speaker 1: the head coach of the University of Kansas. UM. He

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Speaker 1: just won his second national title. They've won what seems

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Speaker 1: like a ba jillion Big twelve titles. And I asked

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Speaker 1: to about retiring. I asked him about name, image and likeness.

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Speaker 1: I asked him about what he learned from his failures

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Speaker 1: early in his career, UM, including why he's not a

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Speaker 1: member at Southern Hills. There's just a million things in here.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna love it. Here's my conversation with Bill self.

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Speaker 1: So let's start here. Um, your first memories of basketball.

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Speaker 1: My first memory of basketball occurred in Morse, Oklahoma, and

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Speaker 1: my father was the high school coach in Morse, which

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Speaker 1: was a small school there. Uh, And they didn't hang

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Speaker 1: a nerve hoop on the bathroom door. They literally nailed

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Speaker 1: an iron real hoop to the bathroom door, which was

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Speaker 1: about two ft tall whatever. And that's the first, my

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Speaker 1: first memory of anything. And I don't know why I

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Speaker 1: remember that, but I remember, uh them doing that. Then

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Speaker 1: I could take a ball and maybe I was big

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Speaker 1: enough in or old enough or strong enough to actually

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Speaker 1: lifted over the uh over the room. But uh, I

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Speaker 1: don't think they had a nerve loops fact then like

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Speaker 1: like I had a little bit later, but I had

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Speaker 1: the real iron hoop that I was hanging on the

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Speaker 1: realm at age two? What was that? Did you go

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Speaker 1: to your dad's practices? Were you always around or was

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Speaker 1: that like the job and he was he did that

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Speaker 1: separation like a church and state. I actually, uh uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember any of that. I don't remember going

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Speaker 1: to a practice. My my dead only coached until I

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Speaker 1: was about three, and uh he he won a state

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Speaker 1: championship and and got out of coaching and went into

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Speaker 1: the school supply business, so uh uh. And then my

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Speaker 1: next memory of basketball with him as he became a

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Speaker 1: superintendent of schools right after that, when I was like,

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Speaker 1: uh maybe six years old, maybe six, maybe five or six.

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Speaker 1: And then all I remember is going to work with him,

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Speaker 1: him opening the gym, and I just lived in the

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Speaker 1: gym from that point forward, in the driveway all the time,

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Speaker 1: probably just like probably just like Bob did with you,

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Speaker 1: to be honest with you, uh but but he was

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Speaker 1: never my coach, but I spent more time with him,

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Speaker 1: and my sister did too, in the driveway. And I

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Speaker 1: promise you nobody knew how to get open one passed

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Speaker 1: away better than I did or my sister because we

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Speaker 1: worked on that all the time. If you give him

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Speaker 1: the hand, you don't give him the hand. What's that was?

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Speaker 1: What was the technique? Well, the thing about it is

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Speaker 1: if you're gonna go back door, you never ever stopped.

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Speaker 1: So the way you do it is if you're gonna

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Speaker 1: shake and go back door, you always give the hand.

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Speaker 1: The hand tells you this is where we're going in

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Speaker 1: when I stop it. If you give the hand and

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Speaker 1: you stop, then you've totally screwed it up. That was

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Speaker 1: what he always taught us what I was young and

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Speaker 1: and and we ran an offense in college that was

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Speaker 1: kind of a semi delay game. I guarantee it if

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Speaker 1: we got to that point, that means we're leading. I

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Speaker 1: choot two layups a game off of that, just because

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Speaker 1: of what he thought me. Uh yeah, My dad was

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Speaker 1: they're gonna getting open to right. But it was it

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Speaker 1: was about like, you know, creating contact and like getting

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Speaker 1: no himani get open. Well, you know what, it's that

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Speaker 1: way now and you're younger, but but back then, you

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Speaker 1: know when when when you know in the in the

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Speaker 1: uh late sixties, early seventies, it wasn't quite like that yet,

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Speaker 1: and and so we uh we did a lot of

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Speaker 1: trying to uh understand how to have footwork on how

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Speaker 1: to get open all the time. How good were you uniceful? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I was? I was. I was a good high school

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Speaker 1: player that was a very average athlete. So uh I

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Speaker 1: got I I probably got a lot done with my

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Speaker 1: with my athleticism, but uh, you know, I I was.

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Speaker 1: I was a good player. I was uh like you

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Speaker 1: in this regard. I don't want to say I was

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Speaker 1: as good a pastor by the stretch, but I I

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Speaker 1: saw the game two passes ahead and and I had

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Speaker 1: great I had great. I I did have good feel

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Speaker 1: for that. But I will tell you this. When I

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Speaker 1: took the job at Kansas, my first team meeting Keith Lankford.

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Speaker 1: You remember, Keith asked me what kind of player were you?

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Speaker 1: And I said, well, I was. I was you know, heady,

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Speaker 1: Uh great post feeder, great post feeder, uh, good team defender.

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Speaker 1: And then he said, in other words, can't play. So

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Speaker 1: that was kind of that's kind of what I was.

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Speaker 1: I was just. I was just I was just a good,

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Speaker 1: solid guy but nothing special. So well, I I you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody where I grew up, Edmond. Not everybody was a

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Speaker 1: huge singer football fan. Everybody loves singer football everybody and

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Speaker 1: uh uh I always went against the grain. So I

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Speaker 1: was always a cowboy fan, even though you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: coach Switzer was in his prime and his heyday during

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Speaker 1: that time, So I wanted to go somewhere that was

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Speaker 1: not quite as popular and uh and plus they're the

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Speaker 1: only ones that really offered me a scholarship. I had

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Speaker 1: some scholarship offers at a low level, but they were

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Speaker 1: the biggest ones that offered me and uh, and all

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Speaker 1: my buddies were going to school there are half my

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Speaker 1: buddies were going to school there. So it was a

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Speaker 1: basketball decision because that was the best offer I had.

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Speaker 1: There's also a personal decision. I got to be with

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Speaker 1: my boys, and so that's why I picked um. So

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Speaker 1: you know, like it's again, so it's so hard for

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Speaker 1: anyone to look at yesterday without the lens of today.

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Speaker 1: But like you still wanted that I was going to

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Speaker 1: state basketball. That yeallagher right, but then very very right,

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Speaker 1: What what if you close your eyes? He said, this

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Speaker 1: is what it was like when I showed up on

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Speaker 1: campus play basketball from the state going to l it was,

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Speaker 1: uh an unbelievable building that was tired. And you've heard

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Speaker 1: all the stories, uh the new building, the renovations. When

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Speaker 1: it's full, it's ever been as good as what it

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Speaker 1: was before when it when it when it was full

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Speaker 1: and small. But back then it was sixty seventy one people.

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Speaker 1: The loudest place I've ever been in still to today.

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Speaker 1: Uh the place is loud there now it's loud, and

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Speaker 1: now in field outs, I'd never heard it loud like

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Speaker 1: it was in Gallagher. Back when I played, we had

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Speaker 1: give you an example. Uh I went to an O

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Speaker 1: U O s U wrestling match when OU was ranked

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Speaker 1: HI and of course we were the best wrestling team

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Speaker 1: in the country hands down pretty much every year US

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Speaker 1: IOWA stayed or IOWA whatever, And uh I went there

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Speaker 1: and and you remember, uh, doctor Death stories of this

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Speaker 1: best match. But again it's it's it's the most it's

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Speaker 1: the most unbelievable thing ever because oh you was beating us.

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Speaker 1: Going into the heavyweight match. We had a huge guy

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Speaker 1: named Mitch Shelton and he's going against Steve Williams, who

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Speaker 1: was also the starting tackle on the football team. Dr

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Speaker 1: Death and he went on to tow uh World Wrestling whatever,

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Speaker 1: and that was his name, Dr Death. He was number

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Speaker 1: one ranked heavyweight in the country all this stuff. He

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Speaker 1: got off balance, something happened, my guy flifting and pending

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Speaker 1: like this. I mean it was a total shock. We

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Speaker 1: we go from down four to winning the winning the match,

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Speaker 1: pancing like this, and the lightbulbs in the building all

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Speaker 1: started popping in swear swear light bulbs all popped in

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Speaker 1: the top of the building. Unbelievable And I've never seen

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Speaker 1: anything like it, and and uh it was, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was deafening. And uh, you know, the the loudest

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Speaker 1: I ever heard it in in there, Uh when I

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Speaker 1: played was when Big Country made the shot from half court.

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Speaker 1: That was the loudest. When we beat Missouri. And then

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Speaker 1: when we went down there my first year of Kansas

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Speaker 1: and they handed it to us uh. Oaklahoma State handed

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Speaker 1: to us uh and that was the final four team

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Speaker 1: that they had obviously with the grand brothers and Lucas

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Speaker 1: and all those dudes. Uh, those are the loudest I've

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Speaker 1: ever heard it. But I've never heard it like the

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Speaker 1: rest ling deal, never heard anything like that. The loudest

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Speaker 1: I heard it was my last game against Kansas, we

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Speaker 1: beat my thirty three, and it was it was so

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Speaker 1: loud that I think both she fouled out on purpose.

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Speaker 1: I think he was like this, I'm out and he

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Speaker 1: got four, and then all of a sudden, he just

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Speaker 1: fouled again and he's blunk up of the bench and

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Speaker 1: it was bad. And coach calls us over and we're

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Speaker 1: up like forty, and he's like, we were running the

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Speaker 1: lay games. We're running we're running Cowboy screen down, but

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Speaker 1: we to run it like Cowboy delay way out wide. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: two one too high spread it. Yes, you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: that's actually high scored all my points because that guard

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Speaker 1: forward passed our toes out a lay up all the time.

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Speaker 1: But but uh, because we actually read that when I

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Speaker 1: was in college. Yes, I mean it's the same old chips.

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Speaker 1: But it was amazing about that was He's like, got

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Speaker 1: me in the middle on the lake game, like I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna slice and death. This is this is actually the

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Speaker 1: opposite of what you want to do, coach, because I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna stop. I gotta get them at this here. No,

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Speaker 1: but he goes, we gotta play out there next year.

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Speaker 1: He take it easy. But that was it it got Actually,

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Speaker 1: that's not true the lot. Honestly, I think the lottest was, uh,

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Speaker 1: it must have been your first. It was one of

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Speaker 1: your first years. At TU nineties seven, we played Barry

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Speaker 1: and if you remember, did you beat a shoe in you?

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Speaker 1: I know you beat him? Yes, yeah we did, Yeah

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Speaker 1: we did. We so or you comes in and we

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Speaker 1: weren't supposed to be very good my first year and

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Speaker 1: you know they lost you the lead before at at Tulsa,

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Speaker 1: coach did the I'm not playing my assistance anymore. I'm

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Speaker 1: not believe the assistance that that was the rule. And

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Speaker 1: then anyways, we played all you and they're down, they're

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Speaker 1: up like nine, we're like five and a half to go,

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Speaker 1: and everything asses are tight. They he puts in Philip

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Speaker 1: what's the kid's names from still out of high school?

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Speaker 1: Still Philip right, and it's a made free throw and

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Speaker 1: I go up to coach and I go coach for

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Speaker 1: Preston is there? And we get it. We we get

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Speaker 1: in full court and I'm in the poor kid. It

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Speaker 1: was the freshman from still Water coming back to still

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Speaker 1: Water and we end up winning by like six or seven,

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Speaker 1: And at the buzzer, I threw an alley. You to

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Speaker 1: Adrian Peterson who junked. I'm huh we we celebrated like

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Speaker 1: that was we were winning the Big Soul championship and

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Speaker 1: it was so loud. And then Barry afterwards post game,

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Speaker 1: he's crying, the old girl got us, the old girl

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Speaker 1: got us. You know that place was off. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: remind me of the story of your last college game. Now,

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Speaker 1: you tell me if this is b s. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: hadn't have tennis this in the game. And so to

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Speaker 1: get so you did you buy manser a case of

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Speaker 1: beer so that you make sure you can get tennis

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Speaker 1: this in a game? Like what is the what's the

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Speaker 1: real story? No? No, I don't. I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: have any idea what you're talking about. About. Because my

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Speaker 1: last college game that I played in I I uh

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Speaker 1: we played at Oklahoma. It was also Tisdale's last home game,

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Speaker 1: you know, and uh I thought we could actually go

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Speaker 1: into that game and win. I was wrong. And I

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Speaker 1: shot an air ball from the free throw line in

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Speaker 1: the first half. Uh I ain't shot an air ball

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Speaker 1: from the free throw line since third grade. And uh

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Speaker 1: I was so pissed. I go into locker room at halftime,

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Speaker 1: and I'm throwing stuff and and cussing and my all

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Speaker 1: my team makes you start laughing at my ass and

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Speaker 1: then I said screw this. And then and then I

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Speaker 1: go out and I get like eighteen the second half

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Speaker 1: because I was so pissed at everybody. So that was

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Speaker 1: my last collegiate game. Uh Uh, it was uh not

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Speaker 1: not the most memorable at all. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: know you got all the assist records, but there was

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Speaker 1: a time when uh, I think I had twelve or

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Speaker 1: thirteen in the game as well. Then when I when

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Speaker 1: I played really shot How good was how what what

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Speaker 1: made Raymonds till good? Well, he had the best body.

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Speaker 1: He had a he had a he had an unbelievable

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Speaker 1: uh uh big butt that you couldn't get around, and

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Speaker 1: spin off of his release was as quick as you

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Speaker 1: could ever ever imagine. And he was a natural score

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Speaker 1: and if you threw it to his outside hand, he

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Speaker 1: could turn over either shoulder, and the way that Billy

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Speaker 1: ran offense, he wanted those those guys to catch it

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Speaker 1: on the block and be able to score, you know,

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Speaker 1: over either either shoulder, primarily to the baseline, and you

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Speaker 1: couldn't guard him, and uh, the other thing about him

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Speaker 1: that was so good. He's he's he's by far the

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Speaker 1: greatest ambassador the state of Oklahoma has ever known in basketball.

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Speaker 1: He changed the way basketball was viewed in our in

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Speaker 1: our in our state. And he was a better person

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Speaker 1: than he was a player. Uh. He had personality that

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Speaker 1: just I mean it just oozed out of him and

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Speaker 1: had the perfect smile. And uh what he did for

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Speaker 1: the basketball in that state and for oh you obviously

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Speaker 1: will will never be matched what anybody else will do.

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Speaker 1: Uh he was, he was. He was the first a

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Speaker 1: P first team All American ever as a freshman, of course,

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Speaker 1: back when Alexander and Walton played the freshman like. He

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Speaker 1: was the first one ever and and uh uh yeah

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Speaker 1: he would, he would. He was special, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in

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Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports

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Speaker 1: Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app

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Speaker 1: search f s R to listen live. Why did you

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Speaker 1: decided to coach? Uh? I didn't til the last second,

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Speaker 1: you know. Uh, My my family are all educators. My

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Speaker 1: sister is a teacher, my mom's retired teacher. Uh my

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Speaker 1: father was a retired educator. My grandmother was a teacher,

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Speaker 1: my grandfather was a superintendent teacher. And so I got

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Speaker 1: my degree in business because I wanted to do something

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Speaker 1: other than teach. And so I had no idea that

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Speaker 1: you could coach and not have your uh teaching certificate.

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Speaker 1: So so uh, I got into business. And so I

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Speaker 1: realized when I when I got into business later on

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Speaker 1: my career, that you don't have to have a teaching

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Speaker 1: certificate to coach in college at most places. So I

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Speaker 1: worked Kansas as camp. And you remember this when you

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Speaker 1: may not you're too young, but used to be. You

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Speaker 1: can't work your own camps. Players can't work their own camp.

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Speaker 1: So all the players went other places to work camps.

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Speaker 1: And so Kansas would have kids from my Iva State,

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Speaker 1: kids from Nebraska, kids from North Carolina. I got on

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Speaker 1: to work when I was at Oaklahoma State, and I

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Speaker 1: I heard my knee why while I was at camp.

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Speaker 1: And I told this story a thousand times, but I

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Speaker 1: heard my knee why as a camp and after and

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Speaker 1: and after camp was over, I went up and thank

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Speaker 1: Coach Brown for the opportunity to work camp. I love

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Speaker 1: to hear I appreciate and he said, hey, Bill, sorry

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Speaker 1: about your leg. If there's ever anything I can do

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Speaker 1: for you, all you have to do is ask And

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Speaker 1: I said, well there is one thing, and he said

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Speaker 1: name it. And right then is when I became a coach.

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Speaker 1: I said, you can hire me next year to be

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Speaker 1: your graduate assistant and he said, you're hired. So in

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Speaker 1: thirty seconds, I became a coach with with with no

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Speaker 1: intention of doing that. Whenever I went up there to

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Speaker 1: port camp, uh, I thought he was the coolest dude

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Speaker 1: I've ever met. I thought, of course, now you gotta

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Speaker 1: understand something when you're young and don't know that when

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Speaker 1: you when when you're dealing with uh in our sport royalty.

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Speaker 1: In my mind, okay, and you're young and you don't

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Speaker 1: know anything he says is gold, I mean to me.

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Speaker 1: So so I thought he was the smartest man. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I thought, you know, he would recall a side out

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Speaker 1: of balance play in Game four of the ninety eight

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Speaker 1: UH East Coast Semifinals and this, this and this and

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Speaker 1: this is what they did. I was just amazed with

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Speaker 1: his basketball mind. Uh uh. And I thought he was cool. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He he was. He was a guy that was different

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Speaker 1: because you know, he's complicated as everybody knows he's complicated.

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Speaker 1: But if you were in, you were in. And I

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Speaker 1: was fortunate enough to be in. Uh Uh. I figured

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Speaker 1: out the best way to for Coach Brown too enjoy you.

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Speaker 1: Was never asking for anything, don't take advantage of anything.

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Speaker 1: So when I ever we went somewhere, I always offered

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Speaker 1: to pay for every meal. I pay for meal. I

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Speaker 1: didn't ever ask for anything. And it is amazing to me.

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Speaker 1: The more you were like that, the more he wanted

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Speaker 1: to help you. And I was smart enough to pay

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Speaker 1: for all my meals and stuff after that. And and

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Speaker 1: he he he. I wasn't one of his UH guys.

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Speaker 1: How you know I wasn't. I wasn't one of those

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Speaker 1: people that somebody had recommended to him. Uh. One of

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Speaker 1: his uh peers or idols. R C. Buford got me

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Speaker 1: in the game, and uh and then I was able

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Speaker 1: to uhuh spend only a year here. But I realized

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Speaker 1: after being here that this is like the most fun

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Speaker 1: I've ever had. Of course, we had Danny, we were

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Speaker 1: thirty five and four, went to the final four. It's

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Speaker 1: not exactly easy to do that, but at that time,

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Speaker 1: I thought, well, Ship, how hard is this? So this

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Speaker 1: is what I want to do. And and then we

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Speaker 1: go to Oklahoma State the next year and our best

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Speaker 1: players will walk on. But but that that that that

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Speaker 1: is that is that that that that I learned a

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Speaker 1: ton under him, in large part because I had so

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Speaker 1: much to learn. But but still to this day, his

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Speaker 1: principles that he taught me is still what we try

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Speaker 1: to play by. Um, how do you have the job? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I got the o r U job. I would have

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Speaker 1: been a candidate for that job, because nobody wanted it.

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Speaker 1: It came down to me and and and and a

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Speaker 1: good friend of mine named Lonnie Spencer from Northeastern and

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Speaker 1: Okay a junior college. Uh, he went to OREU. So

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Speaker 1: he was in love. But that that that was It

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Speaker 1: just came down to us too. But the reason I

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Speaker 1: got as much as anything was because of Sean Sutton.

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Speaker 1: Because Sean was at oh Miss and coach wanted him

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Speaker 1: to hiring back at Oklahoma State. So the best way

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Speaker 1: to hiring position, you give me a job. And so uh,

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Speaker 1: and I was happy about that. Trust me, I had

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Speaker 1: no issues with that. And so coach got me that job.

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Speaker 1: And and and uh, you know, we were awful when

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Speaker 1: they were coming off an AI. It was going to

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Speaker 1: Division one. It was our first year of Division one.

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Speaker 1: We were awful and uh uh, but that's how I

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Speaker 1: got that job. So when you take over your first

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Speaker 1: head coach job and you're young and you don't have resources,

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Speaker 1: I mean you played for Hanson, right, then you coach

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Speaker 1: with Larry Brown, and then you're with Eddie Sutton and

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Speaker 1: and Leonard and Leonard? Okay, who who are you as

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Speaker 1: a coach? Like what who did you? I would say

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Speaker 1: at that time, I wanted to steal from all three?

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Speaker 1: Uh uh you know, Leonard to me, even though he

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Speaker 1: started too lately, you can't you. I mean he talked

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Speaker 1: about done a great job everywhere he's been, and he's

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Speaker 1: been in hard places. Uh. You know, Florida States back

396
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Speaker 1: football school. Oklahoma State was nothing when he when he

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Speaker 1: came into there, Miami, he he won the Big East

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Speaker 1: at Miami and you know they didn't have a home court.

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Speaker 1: They were playing in the Miami Heat Arena. Uh. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's he's terrific. So I stole from him. Uh But

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Speaker 1: really from a basketball standpoint, at that time, it was

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Speaker 1: coach Brown and coach Sutton. You know, uh uh, Coach

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Speaker 1: Brown from a from a sharing the ball offensive standpoint, Uh,

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Speaker 1: what really wins? And then from from an offensive standard

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Speaker 1: point and then coach Sutton obviously from the other team

406
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Speaker 1: can't score, you can't lose mindset. So that that that

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Speaker 1: that that's kind of where I probably stole from the

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Speaker 1: most from a basketball standpoint when I was young. But

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Speaker 1: from a recruiting standpoint, there's no doubt there was Leonard

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Speaker 1: and then there's everybody else. So what is it? How

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Speaker 1: does he? I mean, like, here's here's a here's that

412
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Speaker 1: gets related to me. And I know Leonard really really out.

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Speaker 1: He's he's one of those guys that can go kind

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Speaker 1: of up down and downtown, right Like he can did

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Speaker 1: you quote the Bible? And then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: he can be the coolest dude in the room as well. Right,

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Speaker 1: So how do you but I mean, you're you're a

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Speaker 1: white kids from the suburbs of Oklahoma City. How do

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Speaker 1: you what what do you steal from Leonard Hamilton's as

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Speaker 1: a recruiter that you're able to apply? Uh, he works

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Speaker 1: harder than everybody else. He remembers everybody on Christmas, he

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00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: remembers birthdays people that he recruited kids from, making Georgia

423
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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy seven. He's still sent them Christmas cards

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Speaker 1: when he went to the Final four. I always admired

425
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Speaker 1: this about him. When he went to the Final four,

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Speaker 1: as you know, that's a time for coaches to kind

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Speaker 1: of have a semi vacation. That's a time where he

428
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: worked the entire time. He would set in that lobby.

429
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: He would talk to every high school coach, every junior

430
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: college coach that came in there. He made everybody feel

431
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 1: like that that he was there to see them. Uh.

432
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 1: He was a he he he he was and is

433
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: amazing at that. Uh at the relationship aspect of it.

434
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: Uh I I you know, Leonard was was was a

435
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: guy that was could come across like he's uh Huckleberry

436
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: Finn and just be so nonchalant and act like he

437
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: doesn't have a clue what's going on, and he studies everything,

438
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: he doesn't miss anything, and uh it was it was

439
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: fun watching him play. And and the other thing that

440
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 1: I learned from Leonard is, uh, why would you ever

441
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: share information You already know what you know. You gotta

442
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: make sure you figure out what everybody else knows. And

443
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: he had a unique way of getting information out of

444
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 1: people to help you recruit. That was that was better

445
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: than anybody that I've ever been around, without question. I

446
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: remember when you got the Kansas job. You turned like

447
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: right in the middle of talking to the media, you said,

448
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: you'll know a lot of twenty one games. But our

449
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: first year at U, um, how did you turn it? Oh? No, no,

450
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: it was it was u uh the same kids that

451
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: lost eighteen in a row. Then my first year at

452
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 1: o r U are the same kids that won thirty

453
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: one last thirty eight. Uh. My first year we started

454
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: two walk on. We didn't know what we're doing, you know, clueless.

455
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: I didn't know what they were. I made so many

456
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: mistakes at ore U that fortunately nobody knew it because

457
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: we weren't covered and it went social media. Give me

458
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: uh my way or the highway. Uh uh willout coach them,

459
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 1: which is the dumbest thing that anybody could ever say. Uh.

460
00:26:54,960 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: I probably thought that coaching one as much as players. Uh.

461
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 1: I started my first season to Are You with fifteen

462
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: on scholarship and ended with seven by the time the

463
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: season was over. I started my next year with fifteen

464
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: moral scholarship and ended with eight. So I had fifteen

465
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: players quit during the year, uh, for a variety of reasons,

466
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: could be injury, could be whatever. So I mean those

467
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: those are if that happened in today's time, everything would

468
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: be magnified. The media would be talking about it, what

469
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: happened this, this and that. But nobody even followed us,

470
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: nobody cared. I mean, we were so fifty season tickets

471
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 1: here before I got there, so so uh and that's

472
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 1: not an exaggeration. So so it was just so fresh

473
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: and new, and I was learning on the job and

474
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 1: and uh, unfortunately I had very with me, Verry Hinson,

475
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: and and he was a rock. But uh, that third

476
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: year thing started turning and and and we got lucky.

477
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: We recruited a kid from across the street that went

478
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: to Victory Christian School that was basically an affiliate of

479
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: orld Roberts University, and we got him, uh, Tim Gill.

480
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: He was a great player. The way I used to

481
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: recruit when I first got to O r U, and

482
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: we got a really good player. This way is I

483
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: used to go through those old scouting service Mike Coon said,

484
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: whoever it is in in in areas, you know, in

485
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: Texas or whatever, and I just go through and look

486
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: for tall kids that hadn't signed you, and I would

487
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: call him. I called a kid named Rocky Walls. He

488
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: had a scholarship to Ranger Junior College. Rocky Walls end

489
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: up being maybe the best, one of the best rebounders

490
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: ever at or Roberts University, and we got him and

491
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: Tim Guild the same year. I got a kid, Clifford

492
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: Crenshaw from my high school. I wanted to go to

493
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: O s U O U and they didn't offer, so

494
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: I got him from my high school. And then my

495
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: best leader that I've ever had ever was a point

496
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: guard named Earl McClellan. I don't know if you remember. Earl.

497
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: Not a good player, a great player, started for me

498
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: for four years. He's a walk on. I didn't givehim

499
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: a scholarship till he's a senior. And and and uh,

500
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: that's why we won. That's why we won. I had

501
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: a six man named James Cruse whose brother went to

502
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: school there, that was a Division three player that transferred

503
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: in just because of Lord let him there. He becomes

504
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: our six man stud. And and and of all the

505
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: guys that I probably recruited, I had to recruit one kid,

506
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: and that was Blake Moses I don't know if you

507
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: remember Big Blake. So he was our starting center and

508
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: everybody else just kind of fell there because there was

509
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: really nothing else. And uh uh it was. It was

510
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: a great time. And then at the end of you know,

511
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: my last year. Uh I remember setting you of course,

512
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: you know Seem Newton. Seem Newton's daughter lived and lived

513
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: in Tulsa. So I go to dinner with my family

514
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: and we're at dinner at a place called jam Mills.

515
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: Do you remember jam Mills? The restaurant called Wales. So

516
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: I had to play set at jam Mills and I

517
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: he's sitting right there, and I said, hey, coach Newton, Uh,

518
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: can you tell me what an independent school like ol

519
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: Roberts would have to do to make the n C

520
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: Double A Tournament? Because we're good. I mean, we beat Arkansas,

521
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: we beat Okahama State, We'll be Tallsa. We're good. Uh

522
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: he said, independent, he said, probably going defeated. And I

523
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: was like, well, we've already lost one. He said, well

524
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: it'd be hard to you know. So, so I knew

525
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: the best we could do would go to the n

526
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: I T. But but we had a good team and

527
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: we got the n I T that year, which was

528
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: like us going to the Tols the team in two thousands.

529
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: I mean we thought we were playing you guys in

530
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: the final four, right that was that was that was

531
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: every everyone's vision and obviously guys lost for Carolina. How

532
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: that one come together? Because I that's what I that's

533
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: what I love about. I mean your team this year,

534
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: like like these teams have just kind of come together,

535
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: all right. It's it's something in some ways more rewarding

536
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: and really more interesting than a lot of the other

537
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: parts to it, which is like you know, you mentioned that,

538
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: you mentioned that on Boma State final four team, right, Like,

539
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: they don't get him if not for the fact that

540
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: coach didn't go on the road recruited, right and ed

541
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: Owen shows up with both of them, and y'all for both,

542
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: and they don't get him if not for the Baylor,

543
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: not for the Baylor deal. You know, they don't have

544
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: John Lucas and all of these things to kind of

545
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: come together come together. Well, the TUSSA team, uh, you know,

546
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: the year before, we had a kid named Michael Ruffin

547
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: who played in the league for a long time. Good player, uh,

548
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: really good player about six nine and then uh he's

549
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: really all we lost from the year before and and

550
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: that next year, I mean I just had good, good players.

551
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: I mean just good solid players. Our best player was

552
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: a kid named Eric Cooley, and Eric Culley got cut

553
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: in the c b A, the Continental Basketball Association, which

554
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: was long before the G League. The next year he

555
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: got cut from his team. The next year he was

556
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: our best player. We had we we we we lucked

557
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: out and we got a kid named Brandon Kurtz who

558
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: wasn't a good player. He was a triffic player, six

559
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: foot team guy. Well, Brandon was so goofy. He picked

560
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: us over Oklahoma State. And the reason why he picked

561
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: us on Okahoma State. Oklahoma State wanted him to come

562
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: in the weekend that he had already wanted to go

563
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: uh water skiing with his buddies, and it totally pissed

564
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: him off that they wanted to come in. And coach says,

565
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: how you need to come in now, this is when

566
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: we want you to come in. And I'm like going, Brandon, God, dang,

567
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: if they really want you, don't bring you in any time.

568
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: I mean they know and all this stuff. And so

569
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: he had already visited us, and so basically he committed

570
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: us just because he didn't want to miss the water

571
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: scheme deal. And I mean, that's how goofy it was. Uh.

572
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: And then we had you know, we just had Tony heard,

573
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: Greg Harrington, Marcus Hill, David Shelton. We've got David Shelton

574
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: out to Independence Junior College. That was a good player, uh,

575
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 1: that that had marginal academics. Uh, that he had a

576
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: ton of work to do. And so we went and

577
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: took a chance and got him, and and there was

578
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: just a lot of things, but the pieces just fit.

579
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: And I went into that that year saying, you know what,

580
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: I got six starters guys. I can't decide who I'm

581
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: gonna start, So we're gonna rotate starters every game there's

582
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: gonna be You're only gonna start five out of six games.

583
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: We got six guys are all equal, everybody deserves to start.

584
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: And we go to Rhode Island that year in the

585
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: first game and David Shelton didn't started. We got Rhode

586
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: Island down seventeen to nothing and end up beat them

587
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: thirty in their place. And I told David afterwards, I said, sorry, dude,

588
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: this worked pretty Sorry dude. And and uh, but that

589
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: was that was a great team. We we we weren't

590
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: any good early and then we go to Puerto Rico.

591
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: This is where I knew we were pretty good. And

592
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 1: you remember the team that Tennessee had with with Harrison

593
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: Yard blowing slag black and half away, I mean, not

594
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: a good team, a great team, and my team at

595
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: Tulsa beat them twenty and and and I knew right then, hey,

596
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: we got a chance. And so everything just kind of

597
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: continued to grow and get better and get better, and

598
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: the city actually fell in love with that team. Uh.

599
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: We opened a new building. I mean, there was some momentum,

600
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: there was a it was great. But what was good

601
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: is is that Arkansas is always good. Oh you is

602
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: always good. They're always good. But Oklahoma State had the

603
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: best team, at least in our area. You know that,

604
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: and I know that. But it got to the point

605
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: where you know what, Oklahoma State and Tulsa have the

606
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: best team. And then it got to the point when

607
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: the parents came out, we're gonna play each other in

608
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:28,439
Speaker 1: the final four and in San Antonio. Uh and then

609
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: uh uh we played no not instanding. Where was it that, No, Indianapolis,

610
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: you get beat and we get beat in the lead eight?

611
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: Is that right? And and and and I can't remember

612
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 1: who got you in the lead eight? Florida who beat

613
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: you Florida? And Florida would have never even gone to

614
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: the second round, but Mike Miller made a shot at

615
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: the buzzer to win in the first round. Strobis who

616
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: transferred them from Oloma State. Yeah so so so was

617
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: the butler they were playing. Yeah so so, I mean

618
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: just the And then we played Carolina, and Carolina had

619
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: ed Coda, Joseph Forte, uh, Brendan Haywood, uh, Julius Peppers,

620
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: Chris Lane, Chris Lane, Brendan, I can't even remember who else,

621
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 1: I mean loaded, but they were like an eight seed.

622
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 1: We were four and a half point favorites. I mean,

623
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna go to the final four. In my and

624
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: my kid coleague gets two fouls in the first four minutes,

625
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: we trapped all ball screens. It changed how we played

626
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: and we got passive and and the next thing you know,

627
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 1: they beat us by three. We missed a three at

628
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 1: the buzzer to put it no t so so uh uh.

629
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: That was probably still until this year, the best team

630
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: I've ever been a part of. Team Uh not the

631
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: best players, but the code that the intangil intangiles were

632
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: off the chart, the focus was off the chart. And

633
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: and uh, obviously not as good as some of the

634
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: teams I've at here, or even as good as a

635
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: couple of teams I had to Illinois, but they were

636
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: it was everything was just like this and and uh,

637
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 1: and then we got beaten and then we had an

638
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: opportunity to go to Illinois after. It's interesting because I

639
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: my belief is, and you can dispute this because it's

640
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: your program, is that I think what you do and

641
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: how good you and your staff are and how good

642
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: fog is. Uh, sometimes the stores how good your team

643
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: actually is. And so there were times in the early

644
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: years where you guys got upset and people would say, like,

645
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 1: well they got upset because like, no, actually the team

646
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: wasn't that good. They just were unbelievable in the league

647
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: and nobody can beat them at their place in the league.

648
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: And so that's why the seed is so high. And

649
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: then you get a neutral floor. It's like the talent's

650
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: not that much better. Actually, it's out of respect for

651
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: what you guys do there. Um, it's just it's just

652
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: a thought like and I know it's been what what

653
00:36:58,120 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: the other part of this, People don't really have been

654
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: like fifteen years since you guys lost early in the tournament, right,

655
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: Like it hasn't hasn't happened forever. And we we we

656
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 1: we we lost. We lost in the tournament. Uh, in

657
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: the first round my second and third years. So I've

658
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 1: been here in nineteen years, So it's been sixteen It's

659
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 1: been like years. Right, you had the Stanford one indeed

660
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: was hurt, right, and then uh and that that and

661
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: that was like we was the second round, right, But

662
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: I mean that that team, that team probably wins the

663
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: damn thing. You know, if Joe L does, if Joe

664
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: L doesn't, if he plays, we got a shot. I mean,

665
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 1: we got a real shot that he fairly. I mean,

666
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: like listen, I don't know if you remember this. I

667
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,439
Speaker 1: walk in to do your stando state game, right, yeah,

668
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do stand state game. And I said, uh,

669
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: how good is he? And you said Hall of Fame?

670
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: And I was like, come on, you said, yeah, the

671
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: first time you saw him, what was he? Like? I

672
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: thought the first time I saw him he played on

673
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: an a U team with three other guys were recruiting.

674
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: We weren't recruiting him, nobody was. And I thought, this

675
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: tall guy can run. Nobody ever threw in the ball.

676
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: I mean, so so we go back and watch him

677
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: at his high school and and we watched him for

678
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 1: a couple of hours practice with you know, six foot

679
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: up power forwards and post me and gardening. And Norm

680
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 1: asked me, what what what I think after the practice

681
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: was over, and I said, He's gonna be the best

682
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 1: player we ever coach, hands down. He's going to be

683
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: the number one pick in the draft. And because because

684
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: of touch, footwork, explosiveness, changed directions, uh tough, you know, Joe,

685
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: Joe was them, but he was never soft. Uh uh.

686
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: And then he we practiced here his first day here.

687
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: We you know, we we had a couple of pretty

688
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: good players. I mean, we had Wiggs was here. We

689
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: had a kid named try Black who played in the

690
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: league transfer from Memphis that was amaz uh grown man.

691
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: And we we you know, we had others and and uh,

692
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: whether it be you know Wayne self, I think it

693
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: was Wayne's part of that class. I can't remember. We had.

694
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: We had, we had some real guys that had a

695
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: chance maybe And the first practice he just gets his

696
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: ass handed to him physically, he can't compete and all

697
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: that stuff. He comes up to me after practice the coach,

698
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,880
Speaker 1: you're gonna have You're gonna have the red shirt meyardn't you?

699
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 1: And I said, uh, you know what, Joe, I don't

700
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: think so. Uh. I think if you just keep grinding

701
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: and keep working, I think you're gonna be the number

702
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: one pick in the draft. So so uh and you

703
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: know what, I thought it'd take two years, So I did.

704
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: I thought it'd take two and he just got so

705
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: good so fast. But but uh uh, he was he

706
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: was He was different. He was special. Having he and

707
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: Wiggs on that same team, they complimented each other so

708
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: well because Wiggs was a guy that that really shied

709
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: away from the attention. Wasn't It wasn't a for a

710
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: guy that talented. He wasn't coin hungry. He didn't care

711
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: if he scored. Uh. You know, I was upset with

712
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: him a lot because I wanted to him to be

713
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: more aggressive. And then when he is aggressive, he goes

714
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: gets forty one at West Virginia. You know, he was

715
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: one of those guys. But if we're head by eight

716
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: with or or head by twelve with eight minutes left.

717
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: He's like, why do I need to We're gonna win.

718
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna win. Coach, Everything's fine, and and

719
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: and but Joel had had had a nasty streak to him.

720
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: He had he had a nasty streak, and he was

721
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: smarter than everybody. Everybody. I I'm rambling now, but I

722
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: think this a good story. That year, I go to

723
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame, uh in in in Springfield because

724
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: somebody was being honored for something. I don't remember what

725
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: it was. And I go there and i'm there. I

726
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: sat at a table with Calvin Murphy and uh, we're talking.

727
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: He didn't know me. I don't know him. He I mean,

728
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: he'd have no idea who I was. And and I said, hey, hey, Calvina,

729
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: I'm coaching the guy that leave or not e. He

730
00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: reminds me of a key. There's only one who nobody

731
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: can remind you of a key. Uh. And he kind

732
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: of dismissed me. And I said, you know what his

733
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 1: footwork is. Uh, you know, he studies him. His footwork

734
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: is comparable. I'm not saying it's that good, but he

735
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: has a chance to be that good. He laughed at me,

736
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: no way, nobody could be this and that, which I

737
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 1: would too if I was him. And then as the

738
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: year progressed, because because that that deal I think was

739
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: in October, and as as a deal progressed every time.

740
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: And you know how it works. NBA guys come to

741
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: every practice all that stuff. So every time that there

742
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 1: was an NBA guy at practice, I called Joe down

743
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: to the other end. I said, hey, let's put on

744
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: a little let's put on let's let's show him what

745
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 1: a larger one looks like. And he would do things

746
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: that Ali Juan did with his footwork, and all the

747
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: NBA people would you speak. I mean, I couldn't believe it.

748
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it. And uh he was able to

749
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: incorporate that into his game and and uh, as good

750
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: as he is now, I still think there's an other

751
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: level he could get. I think he's there. I mean,

752
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 1: he could go down as one of the best five

753
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: big men of all time. People don't understand. They also

754
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,399
Speaker 1: don't and again this is the benefit of my dad.

755
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: My dad taught me that when Alijahan came over, he

756
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: wasn't a good offensive player like we we all think of. Again,

757
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: Elijah want the dream shaped like when used at Houston,

758
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: all he did was catching duncle black shot and nothing else.

759
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: And he just put it together. So the idea that

760
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: he got better through his work ethic and Joe Wooden

761
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 1: is you know, I mean, of course he's gonna get

762
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: of course is another level there. He's he's unbelievably talented

763
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 1: um and and he you know, for him to miss

764
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: his first two years, I mean they would be talking

765
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: about him in a totally different light if he had

766
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 1: played every year of his career. You know, he came

767
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: out in fourteen, if I'm not mistaken, So what's that

768
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: eight years? He didn't play semi five percent of his

769
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: career so far, you know, his first two years. So

770
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: his best ball still ahead of him if he stays

771
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: he I'm at the Kentucky game this year at a

772
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: half time, guys, you didn't run out of the gym,

773
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: and it was it was similar to the finals in

774
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 1: that it felt like at the end of the first half,

775
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: you're just I just gotta see who can play, just

776
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: just try and ship right, So you couldn't really you

777
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: never made a run like I was like, well to

778
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: come out and make it. There's no runs in the

779
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: Kentucky game, You're in your coach's office at or in

780
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: that little locker room after the game, and you guys

781
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: are sitting around, what do you guys say? Well? I

782
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: think I think it was a tale of two seasons

783
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: almost because even though they were similar, uh, the mindset

784
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: in the finals was so different from that. Uh. We

785
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: tasted our own blood against Kentucky and we didn't like it.

786
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: We tasted our own blood against Carolina and it was

787
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: like a all right, now let's go. Uh, totally different mindset.

788
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: We we we we we had doubts when we play

789
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: Contell how do you how do you eliminate that? How

790
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: did you? How did you? What did you do after that?

791
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: I don't. I think that that game actually helped us

792
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: more than anything happened this year. I told him after

793
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: the game, I said, hey, guys, the reason why we

794
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: do things the way we do is so that we

795
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: can compete and beat teams like Kentucky. Not because we

796
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: can compete and beat teams that we should be better there.

797
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: So this is your first experience with big boy real

798
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: big boy ball. That's the team that you have to

799
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,919
Speaker 1: beat to go to the final four. That's the team

800
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: you have to beat to win a national championship, that

801
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: caliber team. Because that game, I'll be honest with you,

802
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: I thought they were the best team to come. I

803
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 1: thought they were better than Gonzaga. I thought they were

804
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: better than Baylor. I thought they were better in Arizona

805
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: that day, I am I going down, who could beat

806
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: these great defense, unbelievably rebounder, They got a big guiding

807
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: play through, they can spread it on offense, and they

808
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: got a point guards faster than anybody. I'm like, going,

809
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: how do you beat them? And and and we we

810
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: played a shitty triangleing to I mean that we hadn't practiced.

811
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: I mean we tried everything and we couldn't get anything done.

812
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: And and and then after that though, that's when we

813
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: got good, because the guys, you can't win at that

814
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: level unless you can make other teams play bad. And

815
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 1: that was one of those games. We didn't do anything

816
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: to make them play poorly. And so, uh, I think

817
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: that helped us, and our mindset changed and we got tougher.

818
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: And uh, the reality of it is is is my

819
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: team that we had this year was a good basketball team.

820
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: But things had to go right too. But the longer

821
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: the season went on, we shot at worse. Oh, I

822
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: wasn't as big of a factor because of you know,

823
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: obviously he became mortal, and he wasn't as big of

824
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: a factor and this stuff, and Christian wasn't getting off

825
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: as many threes. Remy was hurt. And how did we

826
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: get better? And we did and in large part just

827
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: because guys got to the point where they actually made

828
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 1: other people play bad. And that's why, well that's and

829
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: and it was honestly your point guard. He's as responsible

830
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 1: for that as anybody. And I got listen, listen, I'm

831
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: gonna tell you this right now. I saw you the

832
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 1: year before. I don't remember this. You said what do

833
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 1: you think? And I said, I think you need a

834
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,879
Speaker 1: point guard because he stinks. And you're like, I think

835
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: it a little better you think, And I was like, man,

836
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: I don't know. You gotta go out and get you

837
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: gotta get it, go out. And I mean, you've had

838
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: some dudes run your team before. Usually you have two

839
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 1: or three, you know, guys that can run run your team.

840
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: How did how did you? How did that change? Like

841
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 1: I'm telling you last year, I didn't think you could

842
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: play him in a big game and win, and his

843
00:46:54,480 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: defense was unbelievable. Unbelievable. What he he's he First of all,

844
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: he's the biggest winner we have. I mean we we

845
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: we drop pick up teams, play pick up to do

846
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: a d his team's gonna win every time, and people

847
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: underestimate that that value. The other thing, he makes the

848
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: game easier for everybody else and on a on a

849
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: in today's world where everybody is trying to get their

850
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: players to share it and to move it and not

851
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: to hold it in the ball sticking as a point guard,

852
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: he's our best ball mover, Henstead. So he totally gives

853
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: himself up in a way that helps us be better.

854
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: But he's still good enough to make a play to

855
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: finish I mean to make a pass to finish a point,

856
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: but I will really, if we're honest, you did go

857
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: out and get ready. You went out and get the

858
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: kid from from Drake, right, So it wasn't like so

859
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: it was like you were totally sold that he was

860
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: this uh uh I you know when the season started,

861
00:47:55,120 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: we were gonna start Jalen Wilson and one would probably

862
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: come off the bench, and Jalen gets in a little

863
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 1: bit of trouble right before the season starts, and I

864
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: made a decision right there that we're gonna play Remy

865
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: and one together. It was okay, It wasn't great, it

866
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: was okay, not even one spault, just okay, too little,

867
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 1: And and so, uh, basically, when Jalen came back and

868
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 1: I started starting because when Remy got hurt, and so

869
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: it worked out perfectly that I could just slide Jalen

870
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: in one kept the state was still a starter. Remy

871
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,479
Speaker 1: was hurt, he knew he couldn't start because he was hurt.

872
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 1: And then of course it took you know, almost two

873
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: months for Remy to come back. But but uh, but

874
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:49,439
Speaker 1: one in that time. This is what else people don't

875
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 1: understand is a lot of times when you recruit your

876
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: recruit on just what you see, there's more to it

877
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: than that. There's there's recruiting on what other people know

878
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: he can do based on being around him every day,

879
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: the type of person, how much adversity has gone through

880
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 1: the kid hadn't had three squares a day in you know,

881
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: his whole life. You know, you do that, and and

882
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: and you kind of trust some other people to say,

883
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: trust me, coach, you'll have the best hands of anybody

884
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: you've coached, and his team always wins, and he doesn't

885
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: give his crap if he ever shoots the ball, and

886
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: you kind of, well, well, people like playing with him,

887
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: We'll givehim a chance. I mean, it's kind of like

888
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,879
Speaker 1: one of those deals. And and then you find out

889
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: that he's as big a winner as you have. And

890
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 1: and people can look at him and they can say, well,

891
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 1: he's not very tough because he's frail. And I would

892
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 1: look at him and every one of our players who

893
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 1: say he's a tough scout on our team and and

894
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: and you just don't know that until you're around him

895
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 1: every day. But uh, you know, talent doesn't win. I mean,

896
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 1: you can't win without talent, but you can't win big

897
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 1: without intangibles. And he's the guy that's got all the intangents.

898
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: He's got them all. Um. So McCormick, he just last

899
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 1: year there were times of which she felt like he

900
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: played above his level. And then the start of the

901
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: year here he wasn't great from the second half and

902
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: you only in five minutes in the second half of

903
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 1: the Miami game, but that five minutes was unbelievable. Was

904
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 1: like the greatest five minutes. Ever, and then what he

905
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: did the Final four, Like, what how did he think that?

906
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: From a guy and being a dominant healthy Hey, his

907
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: health was the best to spend down the stretch. Uh. Uh.

908
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: I totally screwed him in the Miami game. Okay, uh

909
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 1: because he was so good and flipped that game. He

910
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 1: was probably as responsible anybody flipping that game. I mean, well,

911
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 1: that's the best half of basketball we played all year.

912
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 1: I mean it was beautiful. It is beautiful if to watch.

913
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: But he only played like five minutes and he scored

914
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 1: eight points. Dominated whatever he did. Mitchian and the lead

915
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 1: just kept doing this this, and and then after it

916
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: got to six minutes and Mitchell played like eighth straight

917
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: or whatever it was. Uh, I decided not to play

918
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 1: David because he was dealing with uh a leg injury

919
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 1: and just so like he jokes about it, now, Yeah,

920
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: I thought I played pretty good. And then you know,

921
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: I didn't even put him back in, but I didn't,

922
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,959
Speaker 1: so I kind of screwed him to make sure that

923
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: we didn't put him at risk, and because he was

924
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 1: just doing so good. And then in the final four, Uh,

925
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: Mitch really wasn't affected much. Mitch was okay, he was,

926
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: but but David was so good in both games, it

927
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: was like, let's just ride him. And uh uh. It's

928
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: probably the most he played in back to back games

929
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,919
Speaker 1: all year long. His foot was feeling good, He's riding

930
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: I on adrenaline, and he could see the Finnish line.

931
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: And you know as well as I do, whenever you're

932
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: there's something not quite right, whether it be an injury

933
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: or something, and you can see the finish line, you

934
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,720
Speaker 1: can tough through that. It's hard to tough through two months,

935
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: you can tough through a weekend and and and you know,

936
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: he just did that. And uh uh, even though you

937
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: know he wasn't dominant dominant, only had fifteen points in

938
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: the championship game, but but he looked he looked like

939
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 1: a pro when he caught it in tight. I mean

940
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: those moves he made the last two baskets to to

941
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: win it force, I mean, those were those were big

942
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 1: time plays. Those were pro type moves and in baskets.

943
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: And so I'm so happy for him because he's as

944
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: you know, he's a he's a there's not a better person,

945
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 1: uh and not a smarter kid. I mean, he gives

946
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 1: his heart and soul this place. Uh. But he needed

947
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: that to happen. And for him to go out that

948
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 1: way after being maybe the most malign guy that I've

949
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 1: had since I've been here, because you know, one game

950
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 1: he gets twenty, and one game he gets four and

951
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: and uh uh and for people to question, you know,

952
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: is he the guy? Do we need to replace him?

953
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: All that stuff? For him to go out the way

954
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: he did, I think is perfect. Uh. And and you

955
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: know he's he's he's not gonna come back. He's he's

956
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: declared he's gonna stay in and and but in all honesty,

957
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: I don't think he could do better or be hotter

958
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 1: than what he is right now. Um, people obviously talked

959
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 1: about your dad. I don't know how much people and

960
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: how much you divold about your own health stuff you

961
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: went through. Um, but you know, more than a year ago,

962
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, right your stomach. Um, there

963
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 1: there's been there's been a lot, right, and so winning

964
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: your second one it puts you at a different level,

965
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 1: no matter how many anyone you know, a jillion big

966
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: twelves when that second one is Now, we've seen Jay

967
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,479
Speaker 1: shut it down, we've seen Roy and obviously those guys

968
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: are older. But when you want, was there any maybe

969
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 1: maybe I'm good? Has that? Ever, as Aros, it won't

970
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: cross my mind until we get just to be real kid,

971
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: until we get through the NC double A stuff. It's

972
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: not even consideration. Uh. I will not run from that

973
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: ever until until there's a there's a finish line on that,

974
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: and we think we think we're getting closer to the

975
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: finish line on it, but until that is behind us,

976
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,839
Speaker 1: I will not not consider doing anything else or even

977
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: let my mind go there. I mean, Uh, our focus

978
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: is too you know, obviously put a roster together. Uh

979
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: it's a little bit influx now because we don't know

980
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 1: for sure what everybody's doing all but we think we

981
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: have a pretty good idea and we know we have

982
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 1: to we have to replace a couple of guys. Uh,

983
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 1: you know we're gonna have to. We could replace all

984
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 1: four starters, but we know we'll have to replace at

985
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: least two and probably probably four to be honest with you.

986
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: So uh, our focus is that. But but yeah, Jay,

987
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 1: I haven't talked to Jay. Uh just left the message

988
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: you can graduate, lady, but uh, I don't know what

989
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: his reason would be. But our game is crazier now

990
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:14,760
Speaker 1: than it ever has been. And and the unintended consequences

991
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 1: of of the portal of n I l of things

992
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: like that are gonna make it where there's less guys

993
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 1: that go the distance like coach k and Roy and

994
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,439
Speaker 1: and Jim and those sorts of guys. And and I'll

995
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 1: be one of them too, because it's it. There's there's

996
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: a there's too many moving parts right now that it's

997
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: gonna be very difficult. So how do you? How do you?

998
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: Because you actually live it? And this is a great

999
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: because what happens is you get people who are in

1000
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:51,240
Speaker 1: my business and they want to compare you switching jobs

1001
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 1: to players changing schools, and I want I completely disagree.

1002
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,399
Speaker 1: You can, however, you feel just because there's so much

1003
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: more to it when a coach changes jobs. In addition

1004
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: to the fact, you do have a contract and a

1005
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 1: buyout and there's no ramifications for for transferring, So it

1006
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 1: makes it makes it really, really really difficult if you

1007
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 1: were if you were in charge your these are what

1008
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: are a couple immediate fixes that are reasonable that that

1009
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: that helps stabilize things, because I would agree the worst

1010
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 1: thing is it's not there's no stability uh. I will

1011
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: say this. I think that we need to give it

1012
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of time to see if it can

1013
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: be leveled out. I don't think just because you don't

1014
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: like it today is a reason to immediately go back.

1015
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,320
Speaker 1: I think we got to give it a chance and

1016
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: allow it to be tweaked. But the fact that the

1017
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:57,839
Speaker 1: matter is with the portals. To me, the portals not

1018
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: as bad if it stands on its own to me.

1019
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 1: To me, the n I L is the reason why

1020
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: kids are transferred. Yes, to go get a better, get

1021
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 1: a better deal. If if you don't have n I L,

1022
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 1: the way it is giving kids freedom of movement in

1023
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: the portal wouldn't be near as severe is what it

1024
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: is now. So how do you follow N I L

1025
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: right because they open up? I don't. I don't know.

1026
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: I don't know that you die. I don't know how

1027
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: you do it. I don't know that you can dial

1028
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: it back the genies out of the bottle. I mean,

1029
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:43,439
Speaker 1: uh uh. When you start hearing about and and and also,

1030
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: I will say this about N I L. I'm not

1031
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:49,439
Speaker 1: an expert on it. I have tried to stay as

1032
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 1: much out of it as I possibly can. I haven't

1033
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: talked to anybody concerning about a deal for a player,

1034
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 1: which is impermissible by the way our rules are written.

1035
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: So I don't really know everything going on, but I

1036
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,959
Speaker 1: do believe this wholeheartedly. Whatever you're hearing that people are doing,

1037
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: cut it in half and then cut it in half again,

1038
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: and then cut it in half again, and people are

1039
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: used people are using that as recruiting tools. I I

1040
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 1: had somebody, Uh I talked to somebody the other day

1041
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 1: that it was a kid, and I just asking, hey,

1042
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: what's the most any player made on your team? And

1043
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: in I l last year the most it wasn't him,

1044
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 1: and he told me the number. And I'm like, going

1045
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: that school is putting out information that makes it sound

1046
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 1: like kids are making hundreds of thousands of dollars, and

1047
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: it's being put out there strictly from a recruiting standpoint

1048
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: so you can get the next guy. And Uh, it's

1049
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: that the the information is so far out there you

1050
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: don't know what's accurate what's not accurate. But there's been

1051
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: some things that's happened this spring that are definite, and

1052
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: those definites will set the bar on how families and

1053
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 1: how agents representing the players and their families will view

1054
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: in I L and it's not. It's not. It's unrealistic.

1055
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: You got you know. I hate to say this. Average

1056
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 1: players think they should be paid an exorbitant amount of

1057
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 1: money just because they're transferring and worrying that uniform. I

1058
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: have actually no problem with the kid that's been in

1059
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 1: the program that uh has given his heart and soul

1060
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: to that place to benefit from his name management. I

1061
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: have no problems with that. Uh. But because of the portal,

1062
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: there's more kids transferred in the portal, not for better

1063
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: basketball opportunities, they're transferring for better business opportunities, and and

1064
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: and what they're being promised and what what what? What

1065
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 1: what they? What people can actually deliver on are gonna

1066
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: be different. In my opinion. Uh Uh, I don't know

1067
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: how you fix it. I don't. I don't know that

1068
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: you can. Uh. The days of coaching a team where

1069
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 1: that team was built through uh recruiting, through young kids

1070
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 1: getting older, all those things, Uh, those days are behind us.

1071
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: We're all just gonna be general managers now trying to

1072
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 1: get a gig groups of guys to fit in that

1073
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: that that uh uh will be an inexact science and

1074
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 1: seeing a team grow together. Isn't going to like never,

1075
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:35,439
Speaker 1: you may never have another misslif right, miss, But well

1076
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 1: yeah you might get have some of them, but you're

1077
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: never gonna have another. Uh could you have another oh I?

1078
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: You could, you could. But the reason it will be

1079
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: you could have another och I is because at the

1080
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: school that he's presently at, there's opportunities that Will Will

1081
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 1: Will Will allow him to take. Okay, and he he

1082
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: plays as well as he played early on, which was

1083
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 1: really was unexpected. Then the whole offseason you've got to

1084
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 1: deal with somebody trying to poach him and i'llfering more

1085
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 1: money to go to a school that's as boosters and

1086
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:20,479
Speaker 1: better resources, right, And that's well, well it did happen

1087
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 1: to case State with Nigel Pack, you know. Uh. And

1088
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,640
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with what him choosing to pick another

1089
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 1: school any of that stuff. Uh, there's nothing wrong with

1090
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 1: any player doing that. But but but when players do that,

1091
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: it encourages all the players moving forward that this is

1092
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: an avenue. Well this is and this is the issue

1093
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: with it, and Nigel Pack obviously Bruce got fired, so

1094
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: there's a there's a different window there in terms of

1095
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: playing for a different coach. But there is the difference

1096
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 1: in people say, well, it's like pro basketball, like, well,

1097
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: maybe European pro basketball, because in the NBA you don't

1098
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,920
Speaker 1: have a one year contract. That's the The issue is

1099
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 1: not the contract. The issue is that you fought for

1100
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: four year contracts for student athletes. Now it's like I'm

1101
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm out, you know, and yeah, it's I don't I

1102
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:13,919
Speaker 1: don't envy it. And then for you now, like look,

1103
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: you have a couple of McDonald's All Americas, right, so

1104
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 1: you got the if they play and they play well,

1105
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: they go to the league. That's what everybody wants. But

1106
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 1: if for any reason they're not as good and or

1107
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: maybe you have older guys that are better, Now, all

1108
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: of a sudden, do you manage those expectations like this,

1109
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 1: There's there's no winning this there there's uh something happened

1110
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 1: yesterday and and you saw it with a good player

1111
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: at Miami. Uh good player, I mean second team All

1112
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 1: acc good player. Uh. That basically said, well, if other

1113
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 1: people are making this, I'm transferred. If I can't get

1114
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: this that same thing and put it set it publicly.

1115
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 1: Uh had his agent put it out there, and people

1116
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:05,760
Speaker 1: can say, well, that's b s or that's this or

1117
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 1: that's that, that's the environment that's been created. I mean,

1118
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: it's it's uh, it's not only about coaching your team,

1119
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: but how do you control a locker room? How do

1120
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: you how do you know that this guy right there

1121
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:27,439
Speaker 1: is making three times more money and is the eighth man.

1122
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: Then this guy right here that's busting his ass and

1123
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: delivering for the school, and he's making a third of

1124
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 1: what this other guy is making. It's gonna happen everywhere.

1125
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: It's gonna happen everywhere. And so that you know, I

1126
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:43,160
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know how you do it, but

1127
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 1: but that's just it's just gonna be another element that

1128
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 1: it's so inexact. I don't think anybody's gonna know how

1129
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 1: to deal with it. Hamlet, It's going to be, uh,

1130
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: you know, Carolina. I'm not an expert on anybody else's program,

1131
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 1: but to meet Carolina looks really good. They got all

1132
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 1: their guys coming back, and and the guys that are

1133
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: coming back are the guys that actually got them too.

1134
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 1: The national championship game. That's a win win win win

1135
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 1: win win for everybody. But to have uh, those guys

1136
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 1: come back and and and then potentially make a quarter

1137
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: of what somebody that's never given anybody anything, never made

1138
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 1: a basket, don't even know if he's any good yet

1139
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: can he fit in? And and and you know they've

1140
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: been uh, not guaranteed, but been led to believe that

1141
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 1: their dollar amount would be totally different. And it's not

1142
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 1: the schools that are leading them to believe that schools

1143
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: can't give money. I mean, it's not the schools given money.

1144
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: Certain people are so much further advanced in N I

1145
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 1: L and falling the rules and maximizing opportunities and being

1146
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: aggressive that obviously that maybe they can do certain things.

1147
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 1: And and and I'm not saying Caroline is doing anything.

1148
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's that's the perfect world. The players

1149
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: that had made you successful and propped you up, they

1150
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 1: want to come act. What's gonna happen is teams that

1151
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: the exit in early in the first round or don't

1152
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 1: get in the tournament or something like that, and you're

1153
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 1: gonna go take this kid and this or that kid.

1154
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: And in order to get that kid, somebody else's saying

1155
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:15,440
Speaker 1: they can give my this amount of money, so you've

1156
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 1: gotta better that in order to get them. And then

1157
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: where does that put you in relationship with the other

1158
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 1: kids on your team and all that stuff, and whether

1159
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 1: the players have the coaches have anything to do it

1160
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: with it or not. When you were at Oakahoma State,

1161
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: if something happened within your program, you still think coach

1162
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: Sutton was the reason why it happened. I mean so,

1163
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 1: so no matter what happens, the players are still gonna

1164
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 1: think the head coach is the reason why this has happened.

1165
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 1: And so uh, it's it's It's gonna make for some

1166
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:45,920
Speaker 1: interesting times for a lot of folks, including us. I mean,

1167
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 1: everybody's gonna have to deal with I got I got

1168
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 1: two more. You've been great with your time. This is

1169
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:54,320
Speaker 1: an important one. Tiger played two days ago at Southern Hills.

1170
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: Why the hell did he call you for some course knowledge? Like,

1171
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows you? I had now many people.

1172
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 1: Do you know when I was when I left Tulsa.

1173
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 1: This is one of the biggest screw ups of my life.

1174
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 1: When I left Tulsa, I had just been given that

1175
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 1: week a membership to Southern Hills, a lifetime membership to

1176
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 1: Southern Hills. I mean, I went through the interviews, I

1177
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: did all that stuff. I was getting my family a

1178
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,640
Speaker 1: lifetime membership to Southern Southern Hills. Illinois offered me the

1179
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 1: job two days after I got accepted at that and

1180
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: me being an idiot, I called those people and I said,

1181
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Uh, in good faith, I can't do this.

1182
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't take this because even if I

1183
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 1: left Tulsa, it was gonna still gonna be my membership.

1184
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 1: But I I it was the wrong thing to do

1185
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 1: because the only thing, the only reason I got it

1186
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 1: because I was staying at Tulsa. So I actually could

1187
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 1: have been an expert on Southern Hills and played it

1188
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 1: every day, but I gave it up because we left

1189
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:05,560
Speaker 1: to go to it. But Tiger, I think Tiger knows

1190
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: the course pretty well. He's already one there once. I know,

1191
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 1: I know, I honestly, it might be my favorite course

1192
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 1: I've ever played. I mean, I haven't played nearly as

1193
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 1: much golf as you. And the number one reason is, um,

1194
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 1: you can play one ball right like I. I just

1195
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 1: I can't. I'm not good enough. You know, when it's

1196
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 1: like Carson Creek, one of those things goes in the

1197
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: trees because you go get it. I'm not fighting the

1198
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,919
Speaker 1: stake to get the ball. There's there's no water, right,

1199
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:37,800
Speaker 1: It's just a great country club style American style golf

1200
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:40,640
Speaker 1: course that it can be a long, long day in

1201
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: that heat. But you play one ball, it's pretty fun. Well,

1202
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 1: I I know you know this. Most of the pros

1203
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 1: they actually played with one ball, regardless where the play.

1204
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: Anybody who's who's yeah, who's who's not? But I have

1205
01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 1: I haven't. I played some nice places. Uh uh, no question,

1206
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: but uh, I don't know. You know, Pine Valley to

1207
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:08,439
Speaker 1: me is like the best of the best, But I don't.

1208
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: I don't know if if uh I may take Pine

1209
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 1: Valley first, but I don't know if I played a

1210
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 1: track as nice as the Southern Hills. It's a big

1211
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: time all right, last thing we've had, you've had a

1212
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. You've done this before. You've won the

1213
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 1: Time of the Floor, and I guess the only time

1214
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 1: you win titles when you have some comeback, right, that's

1215
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 1: your thing. Um, how's it feels? Uh, I'm I'm I'm

1216
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 1: down off the cloud. Uh. It has felt ridiculously good,

1217
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:46,559
Speaker 1: just like everybody would would assume it does. Uh. But

1218
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: the bottom line is we have to capitalize on that,

1219
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 1: and we got a lot of work to do. So

1220
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 1: I I think our time to relax will be a

1221
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 1: month or two from now, uh, where we actually catch

1222
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 1: our breath. April, as you know, is the worst month

1223
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,640
Speaker 1: of a college basketball coaches year. Uh. The season is

1224
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: just over managing your roster, who's leaving, who's staying, who's declaring,

1225
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: who's going, who's serious, dealing with agents, setting in with

1226
01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: agent meetings. Uh, you know, still trying to recruit this year,

1227
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 1: but you've got to be ahead of next year. You know.

1228
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 1: It's it's a busy, busy month. Uh. And so I

1229
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 1: think that getting through this month, I'll have a chance

1230
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 1: to relax and probably enjoy it more. But I will

1231
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 1: say this, uh, and I said this many times. You know,

1232
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 1: the winds never feel as good as the losses feel bad.

1233
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 1: Never you know, you could you could have thirty wins

1234
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 1: and two losses, and you're gonna remember the two losses.

1235
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 1: They're gonna hurt more thirty wins. I mean, this is

1236
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 1: the one time where the wind feels better than all

1237
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 1: the losses combined, because it's your last one standard there

1238
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 1: there's a finality to it. It's uh uh, it's can

1239
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:05,599
Speaker 1: you imagine winning the gold medal in swimming in whatever

1240
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 1: event you do after you never won a gold medal,

1241
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 1: and all the events for the previous six years, and

1242
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: you get a stand up there on the gold medal stand.

1243
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 1: That's kind of what this feels like. So and you

1244
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 1: would you play you would rather have that one moment

1245
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 1: then all the other moments, if if they were flipped,

1246
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:29,599
Speaker 1: and so that that's kind of and you said something

1247
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: really really really well earlier. You know, we've had some

1248
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 1: good runs here. I mean, we've had some good runs

1249
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: and we've had some good teams, and we won the

1250
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 1: league a few times and in all those things, and

1251
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:42,799
Speaker 1: if you start listing it, well, if you start listing

1252
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:45,960
Speaker 1: all the things, you know, hey, hey, for for twenty

1253
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 1: two years, the worst team that we've had as a

1254
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:50,840
Speaker 1: four seed in the n C Double A tournament. I

1255
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: mean we've been a one seed. I think if we

1256
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 1: if you count, which we would, we we would have been.

1257
01:10:57,880 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 1: I think we've been in one seed like ten of

1258
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:01,720
Speaker 1: the last sixteen years. I mean, we we've had a

1259
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 1: pretty good run here, and and all those good years

1260
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 1: don't feel near as good as that one moment. It's

1261
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:14,760
Speaker 1: it's uh it's it's incredible, so uh uh yeah, we

1262
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 1: want to savor it, but we also need to build

1263
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: off of them doing awesome of your time. Uh, let's

1264
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 1: let's play some golf when things slow down and I

1265
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 1: appreciate you. We're gonna play. Drum right, We're gonna meet

1266
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: and drum right and player what we can we can do,

1267
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 1: drum right, we can do what everyone. I'll drive, I'll

1268
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 1: drive you. I'll drive you all right, man, hey, enjoy it.

1269
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 1: You're the best. Thank you. Okay. So as far as name,

1270
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:45,479
Speaker 1: image and likeness, so here would be my outside observers thoughts.

1271
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 1: I think I think you're gonna have to go back

1272
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 1: to that. You can't. You have to transfer. You have

1273
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:54,680
Speaker 1: to sit out for a year. That's the only thing

1274
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 1: that slows the portal as you sit out for a Here,

1275
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 1: no one's saying we take your eligibility away. But if

1276
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 1: you want to slow this down and you want to

1277
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:06,720
Speaker 1: make it like you really want to make somebody think

1278
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:09,439
Speaker 1: about transferring so they don't just get mad and transfer out.

1279
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:13,679
Speaker 1: But it also goes hand in hand name, image and likeness.

1280
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:15,519
Speaker 1: If you wanted to return to be a name, image

1281
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:18,879
Speaker 1: and likeness, then you have to have played a season

1282
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:23,360
Speaker 1: for a team before you collect any name, image and

1283
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 1: likeness from playing that season with that team. That takes

1284
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 1: away the bidding war for high school players. The sitting

1285
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:34,759
Speaker 1: out for a year changes the bidding war for transferring players.

1286
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 1: It still allows players to get money from name, image

1287
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 1: and likeness and should make them want to stay in

1288
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:44,799
Speaker 1: school longer. Like I think is having a positive effect.

1289
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:48,640
Speaker 1: Can't transfer in your league, got to sit out for

1290
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:51,120
Speaker 1: a year, can't collect name, image and likeness that you've

1291
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 1: played a season? What do you think? HIPI up on

1292
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 1: Twitter at Gottlieb Show. The Facebook page is the Doug

1293
01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:00,160
Speaker 1: Gotlieb Show Facebook page, and of course Gottlieb Show is

1294
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 1: also the I G handle my thanks for bill self.

1295
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 1: That was amazing. Reminder of the Doug out Lip Show

1296
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 1: is daily three to six Eastern, twelve three Pacific on

1297
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:11,479
Speaker 1: your I Heart Radio app, Fox Sports Radio dot Com,

1298
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,560
Speaker 1: your Fox Sports Radio stations. I'm Doug gottlie This is

1299
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:14,960
Speaker 1: all ball