Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the
Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio, dumn my soul.
Speaker 2: If you must, let my body turn to dust.
Speaker 3: Let him mingle with the ashes of the country.
Speaker 4: Let them curse me to help.
Speaker 3: Leave it to his story to tell what I did.
Speaker 2: I did well, and I did it for my country.
Speaker 1: Let them cry dirty to rate emill understand it later.
Speaker 1: That's Victor Garber performing the Ballad of Booth from the
Speaker 1: original off Broadway cast recording of Stephen Sondheim's Assassins in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one. Victor Garber is a prolific actor and
Speaker 1: singer who originated roles in iconic musicals such as Sweeney
Speaker 1: Todd and Gotspell. You may recognize him as Jack Bristow
Speaker 1: in the Intrepid TV series Alias, or from his notable
Speaker 1: roles in Oscar winning films like Titanic, Argo, and Milk.
Speaker 1: A six time Emmy Award nominee, Garber found his love
Speaker 1: for the performing arts as a child, having grown up
Speaker 1: surrounded by music and theater in Ontario, Canada. I was
Speaker 1: curious to learn about his roots as a young performer.
Speaker 3: When I was thirteen or twelve, I went to children's
Speaker 3: theater at the Grand Theater, which still exists in London, Ontario,
Speaker 3: and it was like, it's beautiful, built in the early
Speaker 3: nineteen hundreds. And you know, I played Tom Sawyer when
Speaker 3: I was like eleven, and it was my first starring
Speaker 3: role in Boy. I just never stopped. I knew that
Speaker 3: it was so early that that's what I wanted to do.
Speaker 3: So I was fortunate and I was in a singing group.
Speaker 3: And then I moved to Toronto when I was sixteen
Speaker 3: and then started my life was just kind of went.
Speaker 2: Did you go to Juilliard? Where'd you go?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I never studied. You never studied.
Speaker 1: What was saying this the other day that people who
Speaker 1: have an instinctual gift.
Speaker 3: You know, I copied really good actors, but I'm better
Speaker 3: on the first take. But anyway, yea.
Speaker 1: When you're working all the time and the cylinders you're
Speaker 1: firing all the time, that's when I found it easier
Speaker 1: to act because I.
Speaker 2: Was always those juices were flowing.
Speaker 1: And now I don't work that much and when I
Speaker 1: go to work, I'm literally People don't appreciate this, and
Speaker 1: you sound like maybe you're the same, which as I
Speaker 1: stand there, on the first thing, I go, what.
Speaker 2: Do you do again? Yeah? What do I do? I
Speaker 2: don't know what I do? And then you kind of
Speaker 2: get slowly heated up. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I haven't done a place since Hello Dolly twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1: I saw this article that you did where you talked
Speaker 1: about you didn't want to sing anymore, you were going
Speaker 1: to give up singing.
Speaker 2: It was painful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and when what was the moment if that, if
Speaker 1: I can say there was a moment or two where
Speaker 1: you realize that your voice was changing.
Speaker 3: Well, well, you know, Hello Dolly wasn't you know? That
Speaker 3: role wasn't demanding vocally so much. Although A Penny in
Speaker 3: My Pocket is one of the trickiest, most difficult songs
Speaker 3: that seems like it shouldn't be, but it's really a
Speaker 3: hard song to sing. And I finally, the last day,
Speaker 3: last performance was the only time I felt like I
Speaker 3: had gotten where I wanted to be. And it's because
Speaker 3: if you don't really work on your voice every day,
Speaker 3: you know, singing is it's a muscle. So I'm actually
Speaker 3: trying to get my voice back because we're doing this
Speaker 3: documentary about God's Spell, the nineteen seventy two production that
Speaker 3: I did with all those people that became famous, and
Speaker 3: they're doing a.
Speaker 2: Chardina in that. Well.
Speaker 3: I got him that job because I was cast in
Speaker 3: the movie David Green. I played Jesus with David Green,
Speaker 3: and he one day called me and said, I'm now
Speaker 3: going to ask you to play another impossible part. You
Speaker 3: play Jesus, and now I want you to play Liberaci.
Speaker 3: That's that's too and I I will do it only
Speaker 3: because you're directing it anyway. But yeah, singing is it's
Speaker 3: so I want to sing at this Godspell kind of
Speaker 3: a dinner that we're going to have in January in
Speaker 3: La because Paul Schaeffer will be there at the piano,
Speaker 3: and I know he's going to start playing the intro
Speaker 3: to Save the People, which is the song I started
Speaker 3: the show with. And I want to be able to
Speaker 3: approximate something, you know, just to just to be able
Speaker 3: because everybody will want to sing, and my muscles have
Speaker 3: so atrophied. So I'm every day I get up and
Speaker 3: for about five minutes I tried, and I think, no,
Speaker 3: it's not going to work. So I'm still I'm still hopeful.
Speaker 1: Well let me then I won't talk about your current
Speaker 1: singing career. Because there is none. And we'll talk about
Speaker 1: your former singing career where I'm massively a massive singing Well, no, listen,
Speaker 1: So you originated the role in Assassins, you do.
Speaker 2: We're in the first production of Assassins.
Speaker 1: So in a world that you and I both I'm
Speaker 1: sure would recognize, is you know that just all the
Speaker 1: oxygen to get sucked out of the room where you're
Speaker 1: with Wideman.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and sometime someunheim is why I came to New York.
Speaker 3: When I was a kid in Toronto, I heard Anyone
Speaker 3: Can Whistle, the first actual musical he wrote, well, he
Speaker 3: wrote the music and lyrics for and I used to
Speaker 3: play that to death, and we talked about this, and
Speaker 3: I'd actually written about it. It was like a siren call.
Speaker 3: That music and that sensibility was what brought me to
Speaker 3: New York. And then I ended up in Sweeney Todd.
Speaker 3: You know, I remember so distinctly, and my memory is spotty,
Speaker 3: but I do remember that first preview of Sweeney Todd
Speaker 3: when I came back to my dressing room, when I
Speaker 3: closed the door and I just stopped, and I thought,
Speaker 3: I have achieved my dream to be in a Sundei musical.
Speaker 2: Who were your cohorts and Sweeney Todd.
Speaker 3: Of Angela Lansbury and Lenn carry you now of course
Speaker 3: it was the original company, the original company. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: it's hard for me to you know, I see see,
Speaker 3: and there's been some wonderful productions, but nothing. I remember
Speaker 3: watching them from the wings every night singing you have
Speaker 3: a Little Priest, which is one of the sometimes masterpieces.
Speaker 3: And it will never be ever ever be done like that. Well,
Speaker 3: of course it won't because they were themselves. But it's
Speaker 3: when I say it's indelible, it really is. And who
Speaker 3: directed Sweeney Hal Prince know him?
Speaker 1: Yeah, But when you go on to do Assassin's I
Speaker 1: keep focusing on that because I can compare two productions.
Speaker 1: I've seen Sweeney with different people. I love the movie
Speaker 1: that Tim did I did yeah, and I know a
Speaker 1: lot of people didn't care for.
Speaker 2: It, you know, I really thought it was good.
Speaker 1: The best thing Johnny deb Ever did Yes and did
Speaker 1: the barber scene that they do with Sasha Baron.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I really love that movie. My daughter
Speaker 2: Ireland and I my older daughter would watch that all
Speaker 2: the time. But it was something.
Speaker 1: But when I saw you do that and you sing
Speaker 1: that song, and that's when I fell in love with you.
Speaker 2: I would watch that show with you.
Speaker 1: Then there's the benefit you did with Patrick Cassidy first.
Speaker 3: As Carnegie Hall. Yeah, you did a concert for that
Speaker 3: was that was well, we just sang that song. It
Speaker 3: was a Songheim, yes good ellis it was like a tribute.
Speaker 3: Is a song Sondheim tribute And they asked us to
Speaker 3: do that, and I'll never forget it because I've never
Speaker 3: been I've never been more nervous in my life. I mean,
Speaker 3: I you know, Carnegie Hall, and some for some reason
Speaker 3: I was able to, I guess, just disassociate from the
Speaker 3: experience and just be in the moment. And I've never
Speaker 3: sung it better. And I'm so glad it's recorded. I
Speaker 3: think it is recorded beautiful. Well, thank you, but it
Speaker 3: was life changing to be a part of that. And
Speaker 3: then Nathan and I did Wise Guys and that was
Speaker 3: the end of Sondheim Love Affair. That one didn't go
Speaker 3: so well, thank go so well. You and Nathan did.
Speaker 3: Nathan Lane and I we were so excited about it,
Speaker 3: and the show evolved into I think it became road show.
Speaker 3: Eventually it's been done and that John Doyle did a
Speaker 3: production of it. I didn't go near it because I
Speaker 3: couldn't bear going to see it because it was so
Speaker 3: such a painful time for me, and for Nathan he
Speaker 3: saw it everything, because he sees everything. But anyway, that
Speaker 3: was an unfortunate you know, for many reasons when you go.
Speaker 1: Into something like that with armed with that crowds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: people who they have the highest expectations, quite frankly, and
Speaker 1: so did we you included, Yeah, when it doesn't, do
Speaker 1: you smell it a mile away? Do you guys are
Speaker 1: going along, You're going, I don't know what. You're on
Speaker 1: a phone with your friend and it doesn't, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Well, it was Nathan and I. We were that's just
Speaker 3: the two of us. I mean, we were sort of
Speaker 3: the main characters. So we were always like I don't
Speaker 3: I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: I mean, and I don't want to.
Speaker 3: You know. It was a combination of personalities and of creatives,
Speaker 3: you know, the side of it that weren't really working
Speaker 3: together as one would hope. And also I think the
Speaker 3: concept was kind of a misfire. I think it was
Speaker 3: they wanted to do it as this kind of Crosby
Speaker 3: Hope road show kind of thing, and it was much
Speaker 3: too dark and complicated, so that it never really gelled.
Speaker 3: And I don't know what it ended up being because
Speaker 3: I never saw it. But again, you guys were gone
Speaker 3: and went on with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, it was many many versions.
Speaker 2: Of that show. Then who eventually opened, Well, they didn't
Speaker 2: do a Broadway they didn't.
Speaker 3: No, No, it wasn't on Broadway. It was it sort
Speaker 3: of toured around.
Speaker 1: Now people list you in Wikipedia or these really comment sights.
Speaker 1: This show was Canadian actor. Do you can view yourself
Speaker 1: as a Canadian actor? Do Canadians have to have it
Speaker 1: in there for their cred?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean but I've just been you know, I'm
Speaker 3: about to get the Order of Canada, so I have.
Speaker 2: To well you careful. So I heard the Canadian actors
Speaker 2: this show.
Speaker 3: I normally wear my pin, yeah, jacket, your blazer, Marty Short,
Speaker 3: Eugene Levy, Paul Schaeffer, and I finally got mine and
Speaker 3: it was it's it's it's a great honor. It's sort
Speaker 3: of as big as you can get in Canada. It's
Speaker 3: like getting a knighthood or something, right, but nobody cares
Speaker 3: as much. It's an enormous honor and we're going to
Speaker 3: Ottawa next week, and I was honored at my hometown
Speaker 3: about month ago as a lifetime It's even a ward
Speaker 3: in London, Ontario, and they now have this film festival
Speaker 3: in London, Ontario. I know you'll be charming at the
Speaker 3: bit to get there, but I'll go if you go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, you did two Shakespearean actors.
Speaker 3: I did with Brian Bedford.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: When I saw you do that, you put a spell
Speaker 1: on me. I'm not just as an actor, you put
Speaker 1: a spell on me. So I've tried to do that
Speaker 1: play so many times and everybody said the same thing.
Speaker 1: After you guys did it, you don't see it in
Speaker 1: New York anymore. Why there's a big cast, many people,
Speaker 1: a lot of people. Ryan and I talked about this
Speaker 1: even then, that it should be a movie. And it
Speaker 1: was a life changing experience for me because I'd never
Speaker 1: really done Shakespeare, and now I'm suddenly doing all these
Speaker 1: scenes from Shakespeare. Were Forest, I was, Yes, Forest, were Forest,
Speaker 1: and he was the brit Yes McReady mcredy and Forrest, Yeah,
Speaker 1: who were rivals.
Speaker 3: And the story is so.
Speaker 2: It's one eight story.
Speaker 1: The biggest riode in New York in the highest death
Speaker 1: toll from a public ride and history up to that point,
Speaker 1: one hundred and forty people I think died or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was you in Bedford.
Speaker 3: He was really great to work with. He really liked
Speaker 3: me and so he he was very generous with me.
Speaker 3: And also we had very little to do on stage
Speaker 3: to get yes. So that was probably the best thing
Speaker 3: because I could have gone very right.
Speaker 2: I like to act alone. Well, I like you over there. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm here, and I'm just fine on my own.
Speaker 3: He was remarkable and I loved doing that play.
Speaker 2: I loved doing it.
Speaker 1: But it's really hard, and I loved you in that
Speaker 1: play and that storyline when the boy wants to come
Speaker 1: with you, the young man come with you.
Speaker 3: It's such a compelling story and and also it could
Speaker 3: be so beautiful to look at.
Speaker 1: So once you come to New York, what year is that?
Speaker 3: It was in the seventies to do the movie of
Speaker 3: Godspell early seventies and then stay, well, you know, I
Speaker 3: had to get a green card. I knew that I
Speaker 3: always wanted to be on Broadway. That's that was always
Speaker 3: my dream, and to work with Somendheim, and so I
Speaker 3: actually worked illegally for a while because I didn't have
Speaker 3: a Social Security number, but I do now I've had
Speaker 3: a long time. I was just I had to live
Speaker 3: in New York City. The first job I did in
Speaker 3: New York was at the original Roundabout Theater, which was
Speaker 3: underneath the grocery store on twenty sixth and eighth Avenue Titanique,
Speaker 3: just before it moved to the new theater. That's where
Speaker 3: it opened, and I went back there for the first
Speaker 3: time to see it Titanique, and that was the first
Speaker 3: theater I'd ever worked in.
Speaker 1: It was still you know this, so the Roundabout is
Speaker 1: somewhere else, but that's what's what's the theater there?
Speaker 3: Now it's not, it's gone. They Titanique was when it
Speaker 3: was a couple of years ago when they when they
Speaker 3: opened it before they moved to I think it's Darryl
Speaker 3: Roth's Theater or one of those theaters I remember seeing
Speaker 3: there on Union Square. Union Square, Yeah, but before that,
Speaker 3: the first place they did. It was the first job
Speaker 3: I ever had with Beatrice straight who you probably won't,
Speaker 3: do you remember Beatrice Strets I do.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: She wanted to, you know, an as for a seven
Speaker 3: minute scene in Network, and she was a very oh wealthy.
Speaker 3: That's the word. She was from a very famous family
Speaker 3: in England. They had a very fancy school over there.
Speaker 3: She was the most generous and kind of maternal. She
Speaker 3: was a fantastic woman and she took care of me.
Speaker 3: And I played Oswald and she played mother Mother. Give
Speaker 3: me the Sun and that changed my life. I got
Speaker 3: a Theater World Award. That was the beginning of everything
Speaker 3: for me. And also the fact that I sort of
Speaker 3: came into New York doing an Ibsen play saved me
Speaker 3: from being a musical theater actor, which is what I
Speaker 3: you know, I longed to do and did, but I
Speaker 3: didn't want to be typed. And that was kind of
Speaker 3: a great way of doing it.
Speaker 1: Once you have a beach head here and you're doing
Speaker 1: plays here, how quickly after that, like by what year
Speaker 1: do you pivot where you're making more films and TV?
Speaker 3: No movie, there was not a steady climb at all.
Speaker 3: I mean the first movie I did, Paul Schrader cast
Speaker 3: me in a movie called Light Sleeper, which came out
Speaker 3: of the book and Susan. Yeah, it's a really good movie.
Speaker 3: And he is a drug dealer, Yes, he's a Swiss
Speaker 3: drug dealer. And you know, like, who else but me
Speaker 3: to play that role. It's a Swiss touch and drug dealing,
Speaker 3: it's it's I don't come through them though exactly how
Speaker 3: I spoke that I was young. I was young, but
Speaker 3: I didn't really get movies were late in my life.
Speaker 3: I think by Titanic was I was in my forties already,
Speaker 3: and so yeah, my movie career was very spotty. First
Speaker 3: Wives Clubs I think was the first movie I did.
Speaker 3: I did, and that was a long time.
Speaker 1: But the thing is is that like when you before
Speaker 1: Alias obviously and after Alias, you know, when you have success,
Speaker 1: you're as long as you're successful, you're welcome out there.
Speaker 1: They all want you to come. Did you shoot Alias
Speaker 1: in the La Yes?
Speaker 3: Well, JJ Abrams you know, changed my life. You for
Speaker 3: that show, because that was how he saw me in
Speaker 3: that role. Was still I'm not sure how he did,
Speaker 3: but it worked. And Ron Rifkin, you know, two people,
Speaker 3: and we were both spies and we both were pinching
Speaker 3: ourselves that we were a part of this, and uh,
Speaker 3: you know, everything changed after that, but it was never
Speaker 3: I always felt like I was not really a.
Speaker 2: Part of the movie world.
Speaker 3: You felt that way, yeah, you know, I mean my friends,
Speaker 3: you know, Bill Hurt and Kevin Klein, and you know,
Speaker 3: because and they were straight and I wasn't. And I
Speaker 3: think that was a great you think so oh, I
Speaker 3: know so really yeah, so you know.
Speaker 1: And it was without getting into great detail. It was
Speaker 1: conveyed to you by other people's behavior, posture, tonality, like
Speaker 1: you around people who they weren't.
Speaker 3: Well, just that I wasn't being seen for roles that
Speaker 3: I could have been seen. Yes, you know, I may
Speaker 3: not have gotten. Ironically, the one show that I the
Speaker 3: movie that I was up for and nearly got was
Speaker 3: The World according to garb Right and John Lithgal me
Speaker 3: and a wonderful actor oddly enough too straight man and
Speaker 3: one gay man and the straight man both. Anyway, I
Speaker 3: didn't get it.
Speaker 1: Now, Abrams, there was none of that he wanted you,
Speaker 1: and that was I.
Speaker 2: He didn't really give a shit about no.
Speaker 3: He just he saw something in me, and I had it.
Speaker 3: You know, I didn't know I could do it, honestly.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think anything with the guy smart
Speaker 1: and handsome and charming and urbane is in your field
Speaker 1: of gravity. But so she becomes a big star on
Speaker 1: that show, Jennifer and Jennifer. Jennifer Garner is that's her
Speaker 1: big breakout thing is doing what was the character name
Speaker 1: against Sidney Sydney, Sidney Bristol, Sidney Bristow. And nothing was
Speaker 1: more fun than watching Jennifer Garner and some karate tights
Speaker 1: kicking the shit out of somebody or whatever.
Speaker 2: She was to use.
Speaker 3: Masterful, I mean that change television, that show, I know,
Speaker 3: in what way do you well? Because there was nothing
Speaker 3: like it ever ever? I mean that that pilot is
Speaker 3: considered one of the great pilots. It's actually worth seeing
Speaker 3: the pilot again because it's just one of the great
Speaker 3: pilots ever done. And JJ directed it and he created it,
Speaker 3: and then everything you know, and then there were a
Speaker 3: lot of wannabes after that, but nothing ever, I guess
Speaker 3: I get stopped all the time about that show. You know,
Speaker 3: mothers and daughters and people, and there are people just
Speaker 3: discovering it. And it's thrilling because it meant a lot
Speaker 3: to me, of course, but I'm always assuming and it
Speaker 3: sounds to me like you. It was also partly a
Speaker 3: lack of interest other than being viewed a certain way,
Speaker 3: and that is that you know, before Alias and certainly
Speaker 3: after alias. Didn't you want to park yourself up there
Speaker 3: and just reap the benefits, the benefits in the town,
Speaker 3: you know, I always find that town there's a success
Speaker 3: begets success that you go into a big hit show
Speaker 3: and you're lining up your next show as that show's rapping.
Speaker 3: I mean, was like stepping on stones over a pond
Speaker 3: or something.
Speaker 2: You know. Well, I never live out there.
Speaker 3: What happened exactly is what you're saying. I did two
Speaker 3: more pilots. They were interesting, not quite good enough, obviously.
Speaker 3: The one I did love was Eli Stone. Greg Borlante
Speaker 3: did and that was That was the first, I think
Speaker 3: the first series that included music because Johnny Lee Miller
Speaker 3: played he had an aneurysm and he would go into
Speaker 3: a fit and everything would be sung. And George Michael
Speaker 3: was actually on that show. It's actually, it's actually worth seeing.
Speaker 3: It's really interesting. Eli Stone, it's really that's the name
Speaker 3: of the episode. That's the name of the show. And
Speaker 3: we did twelve episodes and I said to Reiner, I
Speaker 3: remember then, I said, I can't live in la looking
Speaker 3: for work. I knew I would fall into a very
Speaker 3: dark hole. And we left. We moved back to New York.
Speaker 3: He didn't want to leave because he loves the beach.
Speaker 3: But we're now, we're in you know, Sag Garber, So
Speaker 3: he's very happy.
Speaker 1: Actor and singer Victor Garber. If you enjoy conversations about
Speaker 1: acting in musical theater, check out my episode with Richard Kind.
Speaker 4: I know I should be much wealthier. I do everything.
Speaker 4: I have said this before. I am the costco of acting.
Speaker 4: I come a quantity and I come cheap. And that's
Speaker 4: why the toilet paper like toilet paper. Yes, instead of
Speaker 4: buying twelve rolls at the CBS, you got twenty six
Speaker 4: for the same price. Yes, that's me.
Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Richard Kind, go
Speaker 1: to Here's Thething dot org. After the break, Victor Garber
Speaker 1: discusses Stephen Sondheim's controversial musical Assassins and originating the role
Speaker 1: of John Wilkes Booth. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening
Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing. Victor Garber originated the role of
Speaker 1: John Wilkes Booth in the nineteen ninety one off Broadway
Speaker 1: production of Stephen Sondheim's Assassins. Despite the powerhouse writing and
Speaker 1: acting talent, the show was initially not well received by audiences.
Speaker 3: People didn't like it. It was very you know, we
Speaker 3: were all waving flag. Well I wasn't. I forget what
Speaker 3: was going on, but it was all, you know, you know,
Speaker 3: make America great. It was the New York Theater Workshop,
Speaker 3: but we were the off Broadway. We were the original production.
Speaker 3: O god, there's an album to prove it. The first
Speaker 3: time I heard that music thought, how does anyone create this?
Speaker 3: This is the just has never been certainly in the
Speaker 3: modern world. I mean there's just no one ever before since.
Speaker 1: What I loved about this is what you've always had
Speaker 1: in these roles you've played in the theater, whether you're.
Speaker 2: Singing or not.
Speaker 1: Is great acting inside the singing. Oh thank you, I
Speaker 1: say to people. You've got to be able to try
Speaker 1: to do both. So someone said to me, oh, New
Speaker 1: York City Ballet and American Ballet theater. The someone said
Speaker 1: to me, well, one is there the better dancers and
Speaker 1: the other are the better actors. You don't see both, right,
Speaker 1: So my not insistence, but my panchamp for the man
Speaker 1: or woman that can sing an act inside the musical
Speaker 1: theater has always been and you've been always like one
Speaker 1: of the greatest I've ever seen in my life. And
Speaker 1: in that song, you hear you acting. You know, the
Speaker 1: way you play very real. It's real.
Speaker 2: It's not some you know, other kind of thing.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I honestly thank you. It means a lot to hear
Speaker 3: you say that. But I don't understand how you can't
Speaker 3: do it if you don't try to be real. You
Speaker 3: feel that what's going on emotionally, that's what makes it
Speaker 3: resonate to an audience, and that's God given. I never
Speaker 3: thought about it, you know, I never thought, how do
Speaker 3: I act this song? I just lived the moment that
Speaker 3: I was in and I happen to be singing. It's
Speaker 3: really simple. But I'm you know, I go to the
Speaker 3: theater a lot, and I'm not going to drop and
Speaker 3: say any names. But it is astonishing to me that
Speaker 3: people think what they're doing is acting. I mean, I
Speaker 3: really just I think I don't believe one word you're saying,
Speaker 3: and the audience is buying it, and everybody's standing good
Speaker 3: times always and always always. But I just find you
Speaker 3: just have to work harder than you think to get
Speaker 3: to that place. And I think a lot of people
Speaker 3: just don't want to put in the extra mileage.
Speaker 2: You know, it's that that it takes.
Speaker 3: To really embody because we're all of us are so complicated.
Speaker 3: People are complicated, and we go through so many in
Speaker 3: a day, so many moods and changes, and you have
Speaker 3: to be able to facilitate that on a stage. I
Speaker 3: just went to see Peter Gallagher and his plane.
Speaker 2: What is he doing?
Speaker 3: He's doing a left on tenth. It's it's charming play
Speaker 3: that that Susan Stroman directed. And we were talking about
Speaker 3: it and he's he's really good and he you know,
Speaker 3: I've known him the whole life. I've known Peter Gallagher.
Speaker 3: I was saying, my god, I just he said, you're
Speaker 3: so great. And he said, and I said, I don't
Speaker 3: know if I could do this.
Speaker 2: He said, it's a chose a week.
Speaker 3: I said, I know, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I can do it.
Speaker 3: He said every he and I thought, and he reminded
Speaker 3: me why I don't think I really want to do that.
Speaker 2: I can't really so much.
Speaker 1: I mean, I want to do it and I will,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't do it so much because of my kids,
Speaker 1: like to have not seen my kids five nights out
Speaker 1: of the week, Monday, year off, Sunday night.
Speaker 2: Are you only have you do eight?
Speaker 3: She was a week, one night off, one night.
Speaker 1: Now, you didn't study, You did not have a professional training.
Speaker 1: And would you recommend people get some of that training
Speaker 1: somehow or you don't think it's necessary?
Speaker 3: Oh no, I definitely think you. I just I wasn't
Speaker 3: able to find the people to I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: Joan Later, who's my singing teacher. She got me through more.
Speaker 3: Joan Later, the great Dame Joan She got me through
Speaker 3: a lot of things in my early years, as you know,
Speaker 3: because she and she talks and she's she's an actor's
Speaker 3: you know, teacher. She loves that. But no, I know,
Speaker 3: I think you do whatever you need to do to
Speaker 3: feel like you know what you're doing on the stage,
Speaker 3: you know. I just I learned from watching great actors.
Speaker 3: I thought, too, what are they doing or not doing?
Speaker 3: And Brian Bedford was one of them in Stratford when
Speaker 3: I saw him in their play. I learned so much
Speaker 3: from watching him and working with him too, And that's
Speaker 3: how I just figured it out.
Speaker 1: I tell people learn to sing. So when you're young,
Speaker 1: when you're training, I said, go and take as much
Speaker 1: voice as you can movement. I said, you're cutting yourself
Speaker 1: off from half the business. And I'll never forget Boyd Gains,
Speaker 1: who I did a movie, but he had a small
Speaker 1: part of the movie I did.
Speaker 2: And I love Boyd Dames.
Speaker 1: And when he did Contacted, like I could be memory,
Speaker 1: and I go seem I'm sitting going, oh my god,
Speaker 1: look at this guy, this guy who's always been a
Speaker 1: wonderful stage actor and worked in film and television, but
Speaker 1: like this is like his defining moment to play that
Speaker 1: guy who was seeking some release and some freedom in
Speaker 1: his life by dancing, you know, and enjoying himself. I
Speaker 1: watched Boyd Gains in Contact. I almost died. I thought,
Speaker 1: look at him. And I've always said to people, write
Speaker 1: me a musical where I'm a person who learns to sing,
Speaker 1: who can't sing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Maury Yeston gets me at a party, mister Baldwin, do
Speaker 1: you sing? And I said, no, I don't sing. I said,
Speaker 1: it's I go to prison if I sang. And he says,
Speaker 1: mister Baldwin, nonsense, he said. I said to Dustin Huffman,
Speaker 1: he said the same thing to me, and I said, sing,
Speaker 1: Yankee Doodle Dandy in the style of Jimmy Duranty, and
Speaker 1: dropping goes, I'm a Yankee doodle and he goes sing
Speaker 1: the Star Spangled Banner in the voice of Louis Armstrong.
Speaker 1: Oh see, can you see? And he goes, you see,
Speaker 1: you're on key. You can sing when you pretend to
Speaker 1: be somebody else. That's perfect, he says. When you're singing,
Speaker 1: you must pretend you're somebody else. You don't sing in
Speaker 1: your own voice. Your own voice terrible.
Speaker 3: And I'm gonna do that when I get home today.
Speaker 3: See if I can hit those notes. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: it's a great idea. I'll just pretend I'm someone else.
Speaker 1: But this idea of me wanting to sing, I have
Speaker 1: the soul of a singer. It's the same with you. You
Speaker 1: do impersonations. I'm not that good at that either, But
Speaker 1: the point is whatever ear you have for that, that's
Speaker 1: the same music and impersonation sound. It's told a sound
Speaker 1: in your skull. And I look at people, I say,
Speaker 1: learn how to sing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's invaluable. And it also opens areas of your
Speaker 3: body and your head. And I think it's really healthy.
Speaker 3: I think it's really healthy to sing.
Speaker 1: Here's the power of that kind of performance, A clear, unfettered,
Speaker 1: unvarnished piece of your soul coming out.
Speaker 2: You know what.
Speaker 1: The first show I saw on Broadway was Shenandoah with John.
Speaker 3: Con Oh wow, I never, I never.
Speaker 2: I was a kid.
Speaker 1: Wow, and we know a school trip and John Collin
Speaker 1: Glen and goes, listen here Land is Anderson land by.
Speaker 2: The sweat up my bra and he's singing the song.
Speaker 1: And I'm going, oh my god, look at this fucking guy.
Speaker 2: He's standing in front of you.
Speaker 1: He's so many feet away from you, and he's doing
Speaker 1: that in front of you and laying himself bare and
Speaker 1: put himself out there. And I was like fifteen or
Speaker 1: sixteen years old, and I was like, wow, that looks hard.
Speaker 1: It looks like work. You have to learn how to
Speaker 1: do something. And it wasn't until years later that I
Speaker 1: started to saying to myself acting is hard to do it.
Speaker 3: Well, yes, that's what I was whining about it a
Speaker 3: few minutes ago. It's harder than you think, right, and
Speaker 3: you have to work harder than you think. I saw
Speaker 3: Len carry you in a Little Night Music before I
Speaker 3: worked with him, before I knew him. I was with
Speaker 3: my mom, Glynnis Johns was that was my first Sondheim
Speaker 3: Live show that I'd ever seen, and I was young,
Speaker 3: and Len carry you blew my socks off because that guy,
Speaker 3: it was a singer who everything that he sang was
Speaker 3: coming from an organic place, and you were it was
Speaker 3: completely compelling. And he's still, you know, he's still. I
Speaker 3: worship him.
Speaker 2: I worship him. Victor Garber.
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be
Speaker 1: sure to follow Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back.
Speaker 1: Victor Garber details the changes seen over his time in
Speaker 1: show business and how increasingly difficult it is to find
Speaker 1: good material. I'm Alec Baldwin and you were listening to
Speaker 1: Here's the Thing. Victor Garber has been a working actor
Speaker 1: for over fifty years. Of course, over that period of time,
Speaker 1: the way entertainment is consumed has changed dramatically. In the
Speaker 1: era of streaming, there is an endless amount of what
Speaker 1: networks simply referred to as content. I wanted to know
Speaker 1: if he found compelling projects more difficult to come by
Speaker 1: these days.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, listen, I haven't done anything for you know,
Speaker 3: I was doing a series in Canada for four years.
Speaker 3: It was actually quite well written and it was you know,
Speaker 3: you know, but it was a weekly show. But I
Speaker 3: do have to say, we've been watching Say Nothing, which.
Speaker 2: Is the IRA one. Yeah, it's it's I've heard a
Speaker 2: lot of people say it is.
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, you have to have the subtitles so
Speaker 3: because they talk so fast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's really hard to have some titles on everything.
Speaker 2: Now I do too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's Say Nothing is I think one of the
Speaker 3: best things I've seen on TV.
Speaker 2: And did you see disclaimer? No? I like, who's that?
Speaker 2: Who's doing that? Kevin Klein Okevin TV?
Speaker 3: No. I watched the first back on the screen. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and he was great. Yeah. I meant, yes, I want
Speaker 3: to watch that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember, were really wonderful. Sasha Baron Cohen, Yes,
Speaker 1: really great.
Speaker 2: Count her name le Nvil. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm one of those people who I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: not ashamed to admit this.
Speaker 2: I mean I was crying when The Crown was over.
Speaker 2: I love that. Going to watch The Crown for the
Speaker 2: next ten years I wanted. I wanted fifteen seasons of
Speaker 2: the Crowd. I really did all right.
Speaker 1: My last question for you is when you have an evening,
Speaker 1: I mean that doesn't involve friends and the socializing with
Speaker 1: all of your echelon of friends and this business you've
Speaker 1: been you've conquered so well and so beautifully over the years.
Speaker 2: What's entertainment for you that you like?
Speaker 1: Ballet, theater, symphony, music concerts or you don't really it's
Speaker 1: mostly theater and film.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have a great movie theater in sech Harper
Speaker 3: and we go watch movies there. It's a beautiful theater
Speaker 3: and they've renovated er Official and April they've saved our town.
Speaker 3: So we do go to the movies, and we do
Speaker 3: try to watch a lot of you know, our friends
Speaker 3: in shows you know we had which we we love
Speaker 3: to watch our friends. We went to see the Hills
Speaker 3: of California the other day. I think it's one of
Speaker 3: the better plays I've ever seen. I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 3: I highly recommend that because everyone now and then, you know,
Speaker 3: you see something and you think, oh, this is why
Speaker 3: I wanted to be in this business, you know, And
Speaker 3: and the acting and it and the and the writings.
Speaker 3: It's you know, Sam Man has directed it and it's
Speaker 3: The acting is Jess Butterworth, you know, is arguably one
Speaker 3: of the best writers around these days. With the cast
Speaker 3: all Irish people that I didn't know, but the one
Speaker 3: the woman who is the lead is married to him
Speaker 3: and her name and she's on say Nothing and she's devastating,
Speaker 3: she's and she's It's really beautiful play, very very disturbing
Speaker 3: and in the way you want to be affected in
Speaker 3: the theater.
Speaker 2: So I recommend that one.
Speaker 1: Well, you say that you don't want to do a
Speaker 1: play again, and I want to say to you, I
Speaker 1: want to inform you right now that that decision might
Speaker 1: not be left to you alone. Actually you may. We
Speaker 1: may pass a law in Congress.
Speaker 3: If you don't get there and do it, or if
Speaker 3: I don't get a scisions Jai, if you don't get
Speaker 3: you had an early career with a Folk Bent oh,
Speaker 3: nineteen sixties Folk Bent. Oh. Yes, we were on the Ansult.
Speaker 3: The sugar Shop is what you're referring to?
Speaker 2: Is that what it's called?
Speaker 3: The sugar shop? Yes, shoppe? Of course, of course, don't
Speaker 3: forget the e. Canadian a double pe. We were a
Speaker 3: Canadian group that became successful for singing a Canadian song
Speaker 3: for the centennial, and it was like a Mama's and
Speaker 3: Papa's version because we were obsessed with the mamas of
Speaker 3: I was with my friend Peter and I and we
Speaker 3: started this group and he was really talented at arranging
Speaker 3: and we had really good singers, me and two women
Speaker 3: and Peter play the piano and did the arrangements, and
Speaker 3: we signed a deal with Capitol Records. I mean, I
Speaker 3: don't know how it happened. We were like Fifth to Mention.
Speaker 3: We were, That's what we were. We were, and we
Speaker 3: actually recorded Laura Nero's Saved the Country and it was
Speaker 3: on the flip side of a single, and the Fifth
Speaker 3: to Mention copied our version and they got a hit
Speaker 3: with Save the Country. Who wrote the songs for Sugar Shop. Well,
Speaker 3: the Sugar Shop we paid for we people to write
Speaker 3: Laura Neiro, who people don't realize was one of the
Speaker 3: greatest songwriters of all time, and we knew her and
Speaker 3: we were friends with her, and we recorded Save the
Speaker 3: Country and it was on the flip side of a
Speaker 3: song called Poor Papa, which was the nineteen twenties song
Speaker 3: that we and that got was on the easy listening charts.
Speaker 2: Now the trigger.
Speaker 1: Shops, save the Country shave.
Speaker 2: You're like Eric Carmon.
Speaker 3: Oh, don't say that.
Speaker 2: The hair, the hair of your hair. I was like
Speaker 2: nineteen the breaking wave on the ocean.
Speaker 1: Your hair so with the foam in it, and you're
Speaker 1: just so sexy. And look at your wearing that you
Speaker 1: look like you're in Dukes of Hazzard.
Speaker 3: I went to the East village and got a chain
Speaker 3: link vest, and God only knows whatever happened to that.
Speaker 1: I have loved you as a performer, and you're always
Speaker 1: the most gracious person in the world.
Speaker 3: You have always been so kind to me. Olt. I
Speaker 3: remember when we started. We actually were tested for a pilot,
Speaker 3: the same pilot in la and I remember you walked
Speaker 3: through the room and you were so nice, and I thought, boy,
Speaker 3: that is the handsomest man I've ever seen him. I did,
Speaker 3: I remember distinctly, and neither of us got the role.
Speaker 3: But I remember you were always so kind to me.
Speaker 3: So I'm grateful to that.
Speaker 1: My love to you, Love to you, actor and performer,
Speaker 1: Victor Garber. I'll leave you with a little more of
Speaker 1: the Sugar Shop performing Save the Country live on The
Speaker 1: Ed Sullivan Show in nineteen sixty nine, I'm Alec Baldwin.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio