1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,080 Speaker 1: Did you ever vote for a Republican? 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 2: No, this is historian Heral. 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 3: Look at that man and he's talking on the phone 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 3: with his grandma, Gloria. 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 4: And did you and grandpa ever never, ever, ever been 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 4: a Republican? Yeah, but Grandpa has been. 7 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 5: Yeah. 8 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: Did you guys ever argue about politics or no? 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, a little bit. 10 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: Like were you arguing about particular issues like Republicans are 11 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: like this or Democrats are like this? 12 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 6: Do you remember? 13 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 7: No? 14 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 4: He just always say that Trump was was the man, 15 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 4: and Trump was good and Trump and you know, and 16 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 4: I'd say, Jerry, I don't want to talk politics. 17 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 3: But we, dear listener, we are going to talk politics. 18 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: From Futuro Media. It's Latino USA. 19 00:00:55,160 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 3: I'm ARIAJSA, and today we're going to talk about Latino Plicans. 20 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,639 Speaker 3: When Donald Trump announced his campaign for president in twenty 21 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 3: fifteen by saying this about immigrants from Mexico, They're. 22 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 8: Bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, their rapists, and some I 23 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 8: assume are good. 24 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 2: People, many Latinos were offended. 25 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,839 Speaker 3: So when Trump said in an interview on NBC News 26 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 3: a few weeks later, if I get the nomination, I'll 27 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 3: win the Latino vote. I will win it, he was 28 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 3: met with well some skepticism. Just three years earlier, after 29 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 3: Mitt Romney lost the twenty twelve election to Barack Obama, 30 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 3: the Republican Party had declared that it needed to be 31 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 3: more welcoming to Latinos and Latinas and even embrace immigration reform, 32 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 3: or if they didn't, the party's appeal would shrink. But then, 33 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 3: of course this happened. 34 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 8: I've just received a call from Secretary Clinton. 35 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 3: Trump won the twenty sixteen election, and even though he 36 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 3: demonized Latino immigrants, Latinos were a part of his victory. 37 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 3: I am an American and I'm Latina, and guess what 38 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 3: I voted. 39 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 5: For Donald Trump. 40 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 3: Trump didn't win the Latino vote, but he did get 41 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 3: almost a third of it, about twenty eight percent. And now, 42 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 3: on the eve of the twenty twenty election, Trump has 43 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 3: a chance to do it again, and when it comes 44 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 3: to Latinos, he might even do a little better this 45 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: time than last. 46 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 2: Hey, guys, this Latino's for Trump. We're out here knocking 47 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: on doors in Houston, tacting what I'm. 48 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 9: Doing, showing love to the greatest president of my history. 49 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 10: I am voting for President Trump because I cherish my guns. 50 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 10: I cherish my faith and I'm pro life. 51 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 3: These are clips from videos on the official Latinos for 52 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 3: Trump Instagram account. Polls show that the president is doing 53 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 3: particularly well with US born Latino men, and with Cubans 54 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 3: and Venezuelans in Florida who fled socialist regimes, as well 55 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 3: as with Latino and Latina evangelicals. So today we're going 56 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 3: to dig deep into understanding Latino and Latina Republicans and 57 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 3: their history with the help of Heral Lokadava, who you 58 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: heard from at the beginning of this episode. Heeraldo is 59 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 3: a historian at Northwestern University and the author of a 60 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 3: recent book called The Hispanic Republican, The Shaping of an 61 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 3: American political identity from Nixon to Trump. In this book, 62 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 3: he argues that we shouldn't be surprised when Latinos vote 63 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 3: for Republicans, including Trump. 64 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: Between a quarter and a third of Latinos have supported 65 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: the Republican candidate ever since Richard Nixon's reelection in nineteen 66 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: seventy two, and it has been a remarkably durable support. 67 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 3: Heraldo has spent years talking with dozens of Latino Republicans 68 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 3: and sifteen through historical archives to try to understand this 69 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 3: significant and often overlooked group of Latino and Latina voters. 70 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 3: But his interest in the topic started with his own grandpa, 71 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 3: the Latino Republican who you heard about in that phone call. Heraldokadada. 72 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 3: Welcome to Latino, USA. 73 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. 74 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 3: All Right, your grandfather is born in Panama, yep, settled 75 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 3: in Arizona. You say that you used to argue with 76 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 3: him a lot about politics. Take us to those arguments. 77 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 3: When did they start and what did they look like? 78 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness, I think they really started in the nineties. 79 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: I mean I was born in nineteen seventy seven, and 80 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: so I think the time when I became really politically aware, 81 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: conscious started following elections and politics was in the nineteen nineties, 82 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: and our conversations started like this. I mean, me just 83 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: kind of not understanding why he supported the border w 84 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: and harsh immigration policies. And his line was always that, 85 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: you know, I came illegally, I became a citizen by 86 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: joining the military, and I think that's what others should 87 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: do as well. And he told me that in nineteen 88 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: eighty Ronald Reagan was promising to put more money back 89 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: into his bi weekly paycheck by lowering taxes, and that 90 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: was the first time he voted for a Republican And 91 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: what I became fascinated by is how after that he 92 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: kind of embraced whole cloth all of the positions of 93 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: the Republican Party. So I was interested in this idea 94 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: of how someone's political viewpoints can evolve over time. And 95 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: you know, they might have a fairly narrow reason for 96 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: supporting a party to begin with, but over time their 97 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: relationship with that party deepens and becomes more fixed. I 98 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 1: think the other thing that's important about my grandpa is 99 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,679 Speaker 1: that because he's my grandpa, you know, he and I 100 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: have been extremely close, and I think the fact that 101 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: it's a close relationship helped to me approach it with 102 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: empathy and desire to truly understand the beliefs of people 103 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: who I might not necessarily agree with. 104 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 3: Let's pull back now from your grandpa to the way 105 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 3: in which Duram your grandfather's life and mine. Latino and 106 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 3: Latina voters have been covered in the media. There's a 107 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 3: notion that Latinos are naturally liberal. There are others that 108 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 3: believe that Latinos are actually more naturally conservative. So what 109 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 3: do all of these cliches get wrong about Latinos and politics. 110 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, many Democrats have had these Joe Biden 111 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: like moments where Joe Biden said, if you don't vote 112 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: for a Democrat, you ain't black. I think Hispanics have 113 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: had lots of those moments over the years. In twenty ten, 114 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,799 Speaker 1: I remember Harry Reid saying that he can't understand why 115 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: any Hispanic would be a Republican. And on the other side, 116 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,039 Speaker 1: it's Reagan who famously told Leonel Sosa, one of the 117 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: Hispanics running his Hispanics for Reagan campaign, that you know, Lionel, 118 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: you're going to have the easiest job imaginable because Latinos 119 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: are Republicans who just don't know it yet. So I 120 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: think the real problem with that is I just don't 121 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: think that Latinos are naturally anything. Over a long period 122 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: of time, Latinos have been serious political actors with serious 123 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: political ideas, and therefore shouldn't be taken for granted by anyone. 124 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 3: I think there are very few political operatives who talk 125 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 3: about Latinos, and Latinos in the United States has been 126 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 3: serious political actors that need to be taken seriously. Although 127 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 3: the Republican Party, for example, started aggressively courting Latino and 128 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 3: Latino voters in the nineteen sixties, the same period after 129 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 3: the Civil Rights Act when the party started abandoning Black voters. 130 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 2: So how do they do this? 131 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: You know, Nixon during his first administration really makes a 132 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: commitment to reaching out to Latino's bolic and strategists are 133 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: very explicit about the fact that African Americans are leaving 134 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: the party in droves and they're going to have to 135 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: make up for that loss support from somewhere, and Latinos 136 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: seem like prime candidates. And at the same time, states 137 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: like Texas and California are becoming more and more important electorally. 138 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty, New York still had the greatest number 139 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: of electoral votes in the country, but with the growth 140 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: of the Sun Belt after World War Two, states like 141 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: Florida and Texas, Arizona, California grew in population and therefore 142 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: grew in electoral importance, and Latinos were concentrated in these 143 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: increasingly important states. 144 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 3: Nixon actually is the first Republican president to get about 145 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 3: a third of the Latino vote. But I didn't know this, 146 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 3: which is that Nixon's tactics to get the Latino vote 147 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 3: actually came up in congressional hearings during the Watergate scandal. 148 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 3: So yeah, what did those hearings reveal about how Nixon 149 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 3: brought those early Latino Republicans into the party. 150 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: Nixon based his appeal to Latinos in nineteen seventy two 151 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: primarily on patronage. And by patronage, I mean, you know, 152 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: handing out federal contracts to Latino business owners who supported 153 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: the president, creating more federal jobs for Latinos. And this 154 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: came up during the Watergate hearings. 155 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 8: For the first time in our nation's history, the Spanish 156 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 8: speaking people were invited to participate in an upfront manner 157 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 8: during a presidential campaign. 158 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: It was found that he had not Nixon personally, but 159 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: the administration had entered into a lot of kind of 160 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: crooked deals with Latino business owners in return for their 161 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: support for the president. 162 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 8: The percentage of Spanish speaking voters casting ballots for the 163 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 8: Republican nominee increased from approximately six percent to nineteen sixty 164 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 8: two to about thirty five percent in nineteen seventy two. 165 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: The person testifying about all of this is Benjamin Fernandez, 166 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: and he was testifying as the head of Nixon's National 167 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: Hispanic Campaign Committee. The other really important part of Nixon's 168 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 1: appeal was based on economic uplift, and so he appointed 169 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: a Mexican American to run the Small Business Administration. He 170 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: created the Office of Minority Business Enterprise. He established the 171 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: National Economic Development Association, which was headed by Benjamin Fernandez, 172 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: who would later become the first Hispanic candidate to run 173 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: for president. All of it just demonstrates that, you know, 174 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: economic uplift and an appeal to middle class Hispanics was 175 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: an important part of Nixon's campaign. 176 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 3: So then after Nixon, the next Republican president who makes 177 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 3: a concerted effort to bring in Latino voters is Ronald Reagan. Yeah, 178 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 3: you write about how he there was a kind of 179 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 3: strategy change with the party in terms of Latinos, focusing 180 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 3: much more on ideology, like really targeting issues like religion, 181 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 3: so called family values, anti communism. So how does that 182 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 3: change what it meant to be a Latino Republican? 183 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, So the Reagan campaign was the first campaign to 184 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: do a kind of national media campaign on radio, television 185 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: to Latino communities and his Hispanic advisors in the run 186 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: up to the election kind of sat down and tried 187 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: to come up with what were the core characteristics that 188 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: brought Latino Republicans together. So they talked about things like faith, 189 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: They talked about a hard work ethic, They talked about 190 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: a lot of things that served to kind of put 191 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: an umbrella overall Latino Republicans because famously, you know, it's 192 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: not to get groups of Latinos to feel the same 193 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: way about things. You have very different national groups Puerto Ricans, Cubans, 194 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: Mexican Americans, and in order to try to bring them 195 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,719 Speaker 1: all under the same tent, Reagan tried to articulate what 196 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 1: the core characteristics of Latino Republican identity would be. 197 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 3: What about anti communism specifically, because you know, one of 198 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 3: the stereotypes of Latino Republicans is like the anti communist 199 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: Cuban exile who lives in Miami. 200 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 1: Reagan becomes the first Republican president to win an overwhelming 201 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: amount of Cuban American support. He wins something like eighty 202 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: and then ninety percent of the Cuban vote in South 203 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: Florida in nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty four. You know, 204 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: for much of the nineteen sixties, many Cubans in South 205 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: Florida are still really focused on politics on the island. 206 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: They still have this idea that they're about to overthrow 207 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: Castro and can return to Cuba. So that means they 208 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: don't become as involved in American politics as they do 209 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: in later years. In the big naturalization of Cuban Americans 210 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: happens in the mid nineteen seventies, so by the time 211 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: that Reagan runs for president, there's just a lot more 212 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: Cuban American voters who will participate in elections, and they 213 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: have a candidate in Reagan who they're really drawn to 214 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 1: because of his staunch anti communist, anti Castro politics. And 215 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: in the spring of nineteen eighty three, on Cuban Independence Day, 216 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: he visits the restaurant in Little Havana Esquina de Tejas. 217 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 7: Is there any place in Cuba outside of maybe the 218 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 7: Presidential Palace where that menu could still be served? 219 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: And ever since then, I mean really, after nineteen eighty four, 220 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: the Cuban Americans became seen as fiercely loyal Republicans. 221 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 3: So Ronald Reagan in terms of Latinos and Latinez just say, 222 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 3: it's complicated. I know people who have named their first 223 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 3: borns after Ronald Reagan or Nancy Reagan. Wow, giving thanks 224 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 3: to them because in nineteen eighty six they were able 225 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 3: to regularize their situation, begin to get green cards and 226 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 3: a process to citizenship. That was almost three million undocumented 227 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 3: immigrants that were involved in this process of the Immigration 228 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 3: Reform and Control Act. But it wasn't like everybody in 229 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 3: the Republican Party said, Okay, this is it, we're in. 230 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 2: Immigration is our issue. It was more divisive. 231 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's absolutely right. 232 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 7: I mean. 233 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: In the debates leading up to the Immigration Reform and 234 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: Control Act. 235 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 7: This administration asked the Congress to pass a comprehensive legislative package, 236 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 7: including employer sanctions, other measures to increase enforcement of the 237 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 7: immigration laws and legalization. 238 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: Many Hispanic Republicans were really upset with how those deliberations 239 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: were going. They largely sided with their Democrat counterparts in 240 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: opposing employer sanctions, which they correctly believed would lead to 241 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: discrimination against all Latinos or anyone who appeared to be 242 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: or sounded like a Latino. And they also favored amnesty 243 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: all of the naturalization provisions and the pathway to citizenship provisions. 244 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: So the Immigration Reform and Control Act is the beginning 245 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: of a kind of cleaving between the Republican Party and 246 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: Hispanic Republicans, or I should say, just a much more 247 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: fraught relationship, you know. I think one way of narrating 248 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: the history of the Republican Party since the nineteen seventies 249 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: is the kind of increasing tension between the nativist wing 250 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: of the party and the wing of the party that 251 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: argues for greater inclusion. 252 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 3: All right, so there's tension, but for a long time 253 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 3: it seems like the nativist wing of the party is 254 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 3: not winning. And after Rake and You write about how 255 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 3: the Bushes were seen as really being welcoming of Latinos. 256 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: Latino Republicans between two thousand and two thousand and eight 257 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: really looked to George W. Bush as the answer to 258 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: a lot that had been wrong with the party. In 259 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, when the party kind of tacked right 260 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: on immigration and there was a lot of news coming 261 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: out of California about Proposition one eighty seven, and then 262 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: how that law would get replicated in other states across 263 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: the country. Then President Bill Clinton, a Democrat, signed the 264 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: very harsh immigration bill in nineteen ninety six that was 265 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: really championed by Newt Gingrich's Republican Congress. I'm talking about 266 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, and these 267 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: were taken as really bad signs for the status of 268 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: Latino Republicans within the Republican parties. So then when George W. 269 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: Bush came along and promised moderation and compassionate conservatism and 270 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 1: cooperation with Vicente Fox and you a long list of 271 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: Hispanic appointments. So a lot of the Hispanic Republicans I 272 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 1: talked to love to tell me about how in the 273 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: early months of the Bush administration there was an event 274 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: where Bush lined them all up in front of the 275 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: White House, all of his Hispanic appointees, the Bushies, they 276 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: called themselves, and that line of Hispanic Republican appointees stretched 277 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: from one end of the White House to the other. 278 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: Latino Republican feelings toward Bush evolved and became more complicated 279 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: towards the end of his presidency than at the beginning, 280 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: because they felt like a lot of his promises to 281 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: them hadn't been delivered. But in general, his presidency was 282 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: seen as a moment of great inclusion for Latino Republicans. 283 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: But I think in retrospect from where we are in 284 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. I don't think you can understand the Bush 285 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: hears as anything but a blip, an eight year kind 286 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: of respite from what has been a quarter century of 287 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: pretty divisive immigration and border politics. 288 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 3: Coming up on Latino USA, we continue our conversation with 289 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 3: historian Hieraldo Cadava to understand what President Trump has meant 290 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 3: for Latino Republicans, and we hear from a couple of 291 00:18:34,119 --> 00:19:29,959 Speaker 3: Latino Republicans themselves. Stay with us, Hey, we're back. And 292 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 3: before the break, I was speaking with historian Herald Locavava 293 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 3: about how the Republican Party has cultivated a relationship with 294 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 3: Latino and Latina voters over the last fifty years. Let's 295 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 3: jump back to that conversation now. At this point, it 296 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 3: is clear that in terms of the Republican Party, the 297 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 3: nativist wing is clearly in power. Donald Trump began his 298 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 3: campaign with what many Latinos and Latinas believe is hate speech, 299 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 3: and yet Latinos and latin has voted for him. 300 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 2: So how do you explain that. 301 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: I remember having one conversation with a Hispanic Republican leader 302 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: who was talking to me before the twenty sixteen election, 303 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: and he said, look, I don't love everything Donald Trump 304 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: stands for, but I'm going to vote for him because 305 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: I'm not going to let one man ruin the movement 306 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: that I spent decades building. He was talking about the 307 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: Hispanic Republican movement and the effort to bring Hispanics into 308 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: the Republican Party. So I think that loyalty has a 309 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: lot to do with it. But then I do think 310 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: there are a handful of issues that Latino's support that 311 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: the Republican Party stands for, conservative economic policies like tax 312 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: cuts in financial deregulation, religious freedom and the incorporation of 313 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,479 Speaker 1: religion into public life, and of course this tired, it 314 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: seems to me, argument about socialism and communism. I do 315 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: think that these are still the issues that draw Latinos 316 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: into the Republican Party. 317 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 3: When people think of Latino voters, you know, one in 318 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 3: four knows someone who has been detained or deported. These 319 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 3: policies under Donald Trump have become just outright cruel, really 320 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 3: really cruel and vicious. How does this play into Latino 321 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 3: Republicans and their support for Donald Trump? 322 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: On immigration in particular, Latino Republicans say several things. They 323 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: say that first, immigration is not the only issue they 324 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: care about. They care about healthcare, jobs, education much more, 325 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: and on each of those issues there are conservative positions 326 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: that they're willing to fight for. They also take some 327 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump's claims at face value that he's not 328 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: anti immigrant, he's anti quote unquote illegal immigrant, and you know, 329 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: it's it's always a isn't to me watching Republican events 330 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: like round tables that the President has with Republican leaders 331 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: in particular areas We're here. 332 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 8: To discuss my administrations on wavering devotion to Hispanic American communities. 333 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: They seem to live in this kind of friction free 334 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: zone where everything the president has done has been amazing 335 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: for Latinos. 336 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 7: And we built the greatest economy in history. 337 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: So they exist in this kind of conflict free fantasy 338 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: zone where Donald Trump is the best. 339 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 3: So in terms of the Democrats, they understand that Latinos 340 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 3: and Latinas are going to become larger and larger in 341 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 3: terms of their share of the electorate. Right now, we 342 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 3: are thirty two million, the largest non white vote that 343 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,159 Speaker 3: there is in the United States, and there's been this 344 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 3: kind of assumption among Democrats that these demographic changes will 345 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 3: increasingly give them an advantage over the Republicans. So are 346 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 3: the Democrats right? Even if Trump wins this time, over 347 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 3: the long term, will it be enough to just get 348 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 3: a third of the Latino vote for the Republicans to 349 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 3: hold onto power. 350 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: Here's where I think Democrats are wrong. I think that 351 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: they assume a kind of static American future. You know, 352 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: Democrats are assuming that all things else remaining the same. Yes, 353 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: if you project into the future twenty thirty years when 354 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: Latinos represent a quarter or a third of the US population, 355 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: maybe even more forty to fifty percent, that that is 356 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: definitely going to be a bad thing for Republicans. And 357 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: I think a lot can happen in the next thirty years. 358 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: I think, you know, the risk of just assuming that 359 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: a growing Latino population will benefit the Democratic Party is 360 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: part of what allows Democrats to not take Latino's seriously 361 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: for three years and then focus on them intensely for 362 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: a year. I mean, I basically think that Chuck Rocha 363 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: and others in the Bernie Sanders campaign had it absolutely 364 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: right that the key to winning Latino support is early, continuous, 365 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: sustained investment in Latino communities, even when you're not looking 366 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: for their votes. But to answer your question basically about 367 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: will this thirty percent of Latino support that Republicans have 368 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: won over the past fifty years, will that be enough 369 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: going forward? I think that it won't be enough. Even 370 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: if we can't predict the future, we would probably generally 371 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: say that winning thirty percent of a really important and 372 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: an increasingly important demographic isn't a recipe for success. 373 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 3: Well, heer Aidol, thank you so much for sharing all 374 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 3: this information and for taking a little bit more clarity 375 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 3: about let the Republicans. 376 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 2: It's it's a lot to talk about. Thank you so much. 377 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 3: Now, all of this history that we've been discussing with 378 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 3: Heroldo Cavava is pretty recent and a lot of the 379 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 3: players are very much alive and involved in politics. So 380 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 3: Latino USA producer Alisa Scarce called up a couple of 381 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,239 Speaker 3: those players, and she's here with me now in our 382 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 3: virtual studio. I'm at home and so is she, Alisa. 383 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 3: So who did you speak with? 384 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 11: Hey, Mariette, So I talked to two people. Both of 385 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 11: them are people that I read about in Heraldo's book 386 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 11: who have been really influential in Latino Republican politics for 387 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 11: a long time. And I wanted to talk to them 388 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 11: about how they think about President Trump in the context 389 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 11: of all that history. So the first one is Jose. 390 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 11: This he's actually an advisor to President Trump's campaign these days. 391 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 9: I tried to represent the campaign and some of the 392 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 9: more controversial Hispanic media. 393 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 11: Does that include US. 394 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: Uh No, So Jose. 395 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 11: Is Puerto Rican. He lived on the island up until 396 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 11: about twenty years ago. Then he moved to the DC area, and. 397 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 9: I've been involved in every presidential political campaign since two thousand. 398 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 11: Specifically, he's been involved in every Republican presidential campaign. So 399 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 11: in two thousand he was a spokesperson for George W. 400 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 11: Bush in the race against Al Gore. And I actually 401 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 11: found this video of him from two thousand on c 402 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 11: SPAN where he's speaking on a panel about Hispanic issues 403 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 11: in the election, and I was really struck by this 404 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 11: section where he's talking about going to the Republican National 405 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 11: Convention that year. 406 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 12: The Hispanics there where a group that was so accepted 407 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,360 Speaker 12: that there was every committee had Hispanic members in it. 408 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 12: So we have taken a giant step forward because George 409 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 12: Bush has opened the doors of this party to us 410 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 12: and we are taking advantage of it. 411 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 11: Which sounds a lot like the dynamics that Hitralo was 412 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 11: talking about. 413 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 9: The way that it was addressed back then was if 414 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 9: the Republican Party is going to continue to be a 415 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 9: main political force in this country, it needs a bigger tent. 416 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 9: We need a tent that includes more people. 417 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 11: And for years, he'll say it, kept pushing for the 418 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 11: party to keep building that bigger tent. He was actually 419 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 11: part of the team that worked on that growth and 420 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 11: opportunity project that the Republican Party did after Mitt Romney 421 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 11: lost in twenty twelve, which you might know as the 422 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 11: Autopsy Report. 423 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 9: Hispanics weren't happy about campaigns coming to their towns three 424 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 9: months before an election and asking for their vote. Right, 425 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 9: if you want my vote, you need to be here 426 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 9: the whole time and you need to be listening to 427 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 9: me the whole time. And that was something that ryan's Prebus, 428 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 9: then chairman of the Republican Party, took the heart and 429 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 9: implemented and it showed because it helped Donald Trump win 430 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 9: the election. 431 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 11: That's interesting because I think a lot of people see 432 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 11: the Trump campaign in twenty fifteen given you know, like 433 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 11: the way that he talked about Mexican immigrants being criminals 434 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 11: and rapists as having done the opposite of what the 435 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 11: Growth and Opportunity Report what it recommended in terms of 436 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 11: like being welcoming to Latinosen. Thinking about immigration reform, it 437 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 11: sounds like you don't see it that way. 438 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 9: No, I neither does the President, because that's not what 439 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 9: the President said at all. The President said there are 440 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 9: some rapists and criminals, and he was referring to the gangs, 441 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 9: but he also said in the next bread, but there's 442 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 9: also a lot of good people are coming in. He 443 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 9: said it. People tend to forget that. 444 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 11: He said that I was a little prized at Hoss's 445 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 11: stance on this, although he did acknowledge that he doesn't 446 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 11: agree with Trump about everything. 447 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,719 Speaker 9: I don't know of anyone sometimes even myself that I 448 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 9: agree with a harld percent of. 449 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 3: The time doesn' exist. 450 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 9: I tend to disagree with him on Puerto Rico statehood. 451 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 11: Wisse is very strongly in favor of making Puerto Rico estate, 452 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 11: which historically has been a Republican position, but President Trump 453 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 11: isn't into the idea. On the other hand, he does 454 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 11: agree with President Trump's positions on abortion and lowering taxes 455 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 11: and business deregulation. 456 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 9: I do agree that he's taking this country in the 457 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 9: right direction. 458 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 3: So it sounds like Joseph Wentz is one of those 459 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 3: Latinos that Heeraldo talked about, who's really just a conservative 460 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 3: and someone who thinks that voting for Trump advances the 461 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 3: conservative ideals that he has, even if they don't agree 462 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 3: with everything that Trump stands for. 463 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 11: Yeah, that was my impression after talking to him. 464 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 2: And who's the other Republican that you spoke with? 465 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 11: The Other person I talked to is Linda Chavez. She 466 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 11: served in the Reagan administration back in the eighties. 467 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 2: What are you. 468 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 11: Best known for? 469 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 10: Well, I was George W. Bush's first nominee to be 470 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 10: Secretary of Labor in two thousand and one, and withdrew 471 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 10: when it was revealed that I had taken a woman 472 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 10: into my home who was in the country illegally a 473 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 10: decade earlier. 474 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 11: And so I've read that you started out as a 475 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 11: liberal and then switched to being conservative. Tell me a 476 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 11: little bit about that process. 477 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 10: Well, I think I'm still a rather interesting combination of both. 478 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 10: I grew up in the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties, 479 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 10: when the Cold War was a very prominent I grew 480 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,479 Speaker 10: up in a household in which anti communism was very 481 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 10: much something that was preached and that I thought about, 482 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 10: I learned about in school. But I was more liberal 483 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 10: on economic issues. I always say it wasn't until my 484 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 10: paycheck started going up and I had to start paying 485 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 10: more taxes that I became a little more conservative on 486 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 10: economic issues. 487 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 11: Linda was a registered Democrat for many years, and the 488 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 11: story of how she became a Republican honestly kind of 489 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 11: floored me just thinking about how much less intensely partisan 490 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 11: politics used to be. 491 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 10: So I came to the attention of the Reagan administration 492 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 10: very early, essentially nineteen eighty one, and I was still 493 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 10: a registered Democrat, but they started having me do some 494 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 10: work as a consultant, and then I joined the administration 495 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 10: again formally, I was still a Democrat. I didn't actually 496 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 10: change my party registration until nineteen eighty five. 497 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 11: Wow, so you had been you worked in the Reagan 498 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 11: administration for a couple of years before becoming a Republican. 499 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 10: That's right. And in fact, I remember in nineteen eighty four, 500 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 10: during the election, I wanted to go out and do 501 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 10: my big for President Reagan, and I actually asked folks 502 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 10: at the White House, isn't it time I changed my registration? 503 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 10: And I got a very clear answer, No, you're a 504 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 10: Reagan Democrat and we need you out there talking as 505 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 10: a Reagan Democrat. So it wasn't until I went into 506 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 10: the White House that I formally changed my registration. 507 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 11: And that history might have something to do with the 508 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 11: fact that Linda had a very different reaction than he'll 509 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 11: say when Donald Trump announced he was running for president 510 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 11: in twenty fifteen. So you've been pretty public about the 511 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 11: fact that you don't support Donald Trump. At what point 512 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 11: did you start thinking, I can't support this candidate. 513 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 10: The minute he announced I knew I could not support him. 514 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,239 Speaker 10: I mean the minute the words came out of his 515 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 10: mouth referring to Mexicans as a rapists and criminals and 516 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 10: bringing drugs into the country. You know, a lot of 517 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 10: people like to say, well, he was talking about illegal immigrants. 518 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 10: No he was not. He was talking about Mexico sending 519 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 10: not the best people. You know, as long as I've 520 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 10: known of Donald Trump, I've disapproved of him. 521 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 11: And she still disapproves of him, even though she supports 522 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 11: some of the things that he's done over the last 523 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 11: four years, like parts of the tax reform and the 524 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 11: judges he's appointed. 525 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 10: But you can't get away from the man. 526 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 11: Are you going to vote for Biden this time? 527 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 10: I am going to vote for Biden. Last time, I 528 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 10: did not vote for Hillary Clinton. I wrote in Marco 529 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 10: Rubio's name. This time, I think that I have to 530 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 10: vote for Biden because I think the future of America 531 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 10: and the future of democracy is in the balance. And 532 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 10: I haven't changed my party registration. I look forward to 533 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 10: the day when I can once again vote for a 534 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 10: Republican and a conservative. But that is not going to 535 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 10: be twenty twenty. 536 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 3: So are most Latino Republicans more like Josse or are 537 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 3: they more like Linda? 538 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 12: So? 539 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 11: According to Heraldo, most of the long time Latino Republicans 540 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 11: he talked to for the book have not turned away 541 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 11: from Trump. On the other hand, Trump did get less 542 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 11: of the Latino vote than I either of the Bushes 543 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 11: or Ronald Reagan got back in the day. Trump has 544 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 11: also brought some new Latinos into the Republican Party. So 545 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 11: it's obviously complicated and we're going to have to wait 546 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 11: till after this election to know for sure how Trump 547 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 11: is going to do with Latinos this time. 548 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 3: And what about Hiraldo's grandpa. Did he end up voting 549 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:19,280 Speaker 3: for Trump? 550 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 11: So Heraldo wasn't sure. His grandpa lives in a nursing 551 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:25,959 Speaker 11: home for veterans these days, and he has some health 552 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 11: issues that made it hard to ask him directly. And 553 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 11: when Hiraldo called his grandma, she wasn't sure if his 554 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 11: grandpa had voted at all in twenty sixteen, so she 555 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 11: did some slew thing afterwards, and she left him this voicemail. 556 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 6: Meho, I know you're probably working. I'm god you're not answering. 557 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 4: But you know I got it in my head that 558 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 4: I had. 559 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 6: To call the registration the Recorder's office to say about grandpa. 560 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 6: She said that it shows that grandpa voted in sixteen. 561 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 11: And as you may remember, Hiraldo's grandpa was a Trump fan, 562 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 11: so it seems likely that he voted for him, but 563 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 11: we can't be sure, and they're not sure how things 564 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,240 Speaker 11: are going to go this time either. Here Aldo's grandma, 565 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 11: on the other hand, already filled out her ballot for Biden. 566 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 2: Okay a, Lisa, thank you so much. 567 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 3: This episode was produced by alissaes Carce and edited by 568 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,280 Speaker 3: Andrea Lopez Cruzado. 569 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 2: The Latino USA. Team includes Miel Massias, Luis. 570 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 3: Trees, Julieta Martinelli, Gini Montalbo, and Alejandra Serrasad with help 571 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 3: from Raoul Berez. Fact checking by Jennifer Beniz. Our engineers 572 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 3: are Stephanie Lebau, Julia Caruso and Lia Shaw, with help 573 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 3: from alisiba Eto. Our director of programming and Operations is 574 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 3: Natalia Fidejoltz. Our digital editor is Luis Luna. Our New 575 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 3: York Women's Foundation Ignite fellow is Julia Rocha. Our interns 576 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 3: are Jim and Adelcero, Emil Sekiros and Gabriel Lavaez. Our 577 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 3: theme music was compared by Sane Rorinos. If you like 578 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 3: the music you heard on this episode, stop by letlousa 579 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 3: dot org and check out our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm 580 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 3: your host and executive producer Mariaojosa. Join us again on 581 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 3: our next episode, and in the meantime, look for us 582 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 3: on all of your social media. 583 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 2: I'll see you there. Asta La Proxima Choo. 584 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 5: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation, 585 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 5: working with visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide, 586 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 5: the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and the 587 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 5: Heisin Simons Foundation Unlocking Knowledge, Opportunity and Possibilities. More at 588 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 5: hsfoundation dot org. 589 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 4: If anybody will start talking about politics that I just 590 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 4: say no no, I'm Maria Noojosa. 591 00:36:58,560 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 2: Next time on Latino US. 592 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:06,880 Speaker 3: Author Cardla Cornejo Biavicencio her debut book, The Undocumented Americans 593 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:13,919 Speaker 3: redefines the great American novel. That's next time on Latino USA.