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Speaker 1: You can't heal a body you hate.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Hey, everyone, Emily Abadi here you are listening to

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Speaker 2: another installment of Hurdle Moment from Hurdle.

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Speaker 3: A wellness focused podcast.

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Speaker 2: Reconnect with everyone from your favorite athletes to top experts

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Speaker 2: and industry CEOs about their highest ties, toughest moments, and

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Speaker 2: everything in between. We all go through hurdles in life,

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Speaker 2: and my goal through these discussions is to empower you

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Speaker 2: to better navigate yours and move with intention so that

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Speaker 2: you can stride towards your own big potential and of

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Speaker 2: course have some fun along the way. For today's episode,

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Speaker 2: I am chatting with doctor Will Cole. He's a leading

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Speaker 2: functional medicine expert who consults people around the world via webcam,

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Speaker 2: having started one of the first function medicine telehealth centers

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Speaker 2: in the world. Named one of the top fifty functional

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Speaker 2: and integrative doctors in the nation, doctor Cole specializes in

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Speaker 2: clinically investigating underlying factors of chronic disease and customizing a

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Speaker 2: functional medicine approach for thyroide issues, autoimmune conditions, hormone imbalances,

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Speaker 2: digestive disorders, and brain problems. Now he's also the host

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Speaker 2: of the popular podcast, The Art of Being Well and

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Speaker 2: an author. He's got a new book coming out this

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Speaker 2: month and it is all about exactly what we are

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Speaker 2: here to chat about today, that is your gut.

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Speaker 3: The book is called Gut Feelings. I will link to

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Speaker 3: it in.

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Speaker 2: The show notes so that you can pre order it,

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Speaker 2: which I can almost guarantee is something that you will

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Speaker 2: be doing once you listen to this conversation. Doctor Cole

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Speaker 2: is a wealth of knowledge. He gives us the lowdown

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Speaker 2: on everything from good for you foods that can help

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Speaker 2: your gut, all the info we need on the brain

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Speaker 2: gut connection, and a large part of our conversation centers

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Speaker 2: around the term he coined called shame flammation. Now, shameflammation

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Speaker 2: can be the reason for chronic health conditions such as

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Speaker 2: autoimmune disorders, leaky gut IBS, and other GI disorders. Not

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Speaker 2: the good news is that it is possible to heal

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Speaker 2: the connection between the physical and mental with good food

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Speaker 2: and somatic practices that support a healthy gut and brain.

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Speaker 2: And that is exactly with Doctor Cole and I get

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Speaker 2: into today again jam packed episode, so grateful for doctor

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Speaker 2: Cole's expertise and a reminder I will link his new

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Speaker 2: book Gut Feelings in the show notes.

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Speaker 3: If you aren't doing so yet, make sure you follow

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Speaker 3: Hurdle over on social media.

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Speaker 2: Over at Hurdle Podcast, I am over at Emily A

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Speaker 2: Body and Los Angeles.

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Speaker 3: I am coming for you.

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Speaker 2: The link right now is live for our runner safety

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Speaker 2: Conversation I'm going to be hosting next week on Wednesday,

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Speaker 2: March fifteenth in Venice. If you are local, I would

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Speaker 2: absolutely love to see you there. If you're not yet

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Speaker 2: subscribed to the weekly Hurdle newsletter, what you're waiting for

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Speaker 2: the link to subscribe. It's absolutely free. As in the

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Speaker 2: show notes. That's it for now. With that, let's get

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Speaker 2: to it.

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Speaker 4: Let's get to hurdling.

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Speaker 3: Today.

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Speaker 2: I'm sitting down with doctor Will Cole. He's a New

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Speaker 2: York Times bestselling author. He's also a.

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Speaker 3: Leading functional medicine expert. How are you doing today.

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Speaker 1: My goodness, thanks so much for having me. I'm doing well.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing well in between consulting patients, and I'm happy

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Speaker 1: to be here with you.

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Speaker 2: It always amazes me like I feel as though not

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Speaker 2: to compare here, but I feel as though I don't

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Speaker 2: have time in the day, And then I sit down

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Speaker 2: with an expert like you, and You're like, I was

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Speaker 2: just like helping people make very important life decisions consult

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Speaker 2: their health, and now I'm making time to do this

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Speaker 2: podcast like nothing going on.

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Speaker 3: Really.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been doing it for thirteen years, so I'm

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Speaker 1: used to the yin and yang of it. I love it.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's like the rhythm of my day. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it definitely holds space for some heavy stuff sometimes. But

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Speaker 1: it's certainly it's a sacred responsibility for me. It kind

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Speaker 1: of lights me up to really figure out difficult, complex problems.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's so normal for me. I don't even

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Speaker 1: think about it, but maybe to the outside world is

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Speaker 1: quite strange.

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Speaker 2: So you have been doing this for a good amount

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Speaker 2: of time. You're also a podcaster yourself. You have a

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Speaker 2: show called The Art of Being Well. Talk to me

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Speaker 2: a little bit about what it's been like to strengthen

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Speaker 2: that muscle to be having these conversations out of what

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Speaker 2: is your office and now behind the microphone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think I've been doing telehealth for thirteen years,

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Speaker 1: so I'm used to talking when you're not in the

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Speaker 1: same room with somebody, So there's a different level of

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Speaker 1: like holding space and reading the room proverbially and the

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Speaker 1: resonance of it, I guess of talking to somebody. And

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Speaker 1: I think my consultation skills really lends itself to conversations

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Speaker 1: for people that aren't patients, right, because you're you're being

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Speaker 1: a I have to be clinical investigator, so I have

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Speaker 1: to ask questions. I have to like dig deeper. I

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Speaker 1: have to like read between the lines sometime and know

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Speaker 1: one to give and take and listen and speak. So

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Speaker 1: I think that that is a skill set that's honed

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Speaker 1: in over thirteen plus years talking to thousands of people,

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Speaker 1: you know, off of people watching it because it's all

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Speaker 1: patient confidentiality stuff. But you know, I think that's the

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Speaker 1: podcast is so easy for me because of that. We're

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Speaker 1: actually talking about fun stuff, fascinating stuff, science stuff, health stuff,

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Speaker 1: wellness stuff, life stuff. Before my podcast, The Art of

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Speaker 1: Being Well, I hosted a podcast called Goopfellas, which was Goops,

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Speaker 1: which is Gwyneth Palch's company. Their first spinof podcast was

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Speaker 1: called Goop Fellas, which was like, we did that for

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Speaker 1: about a year or so as like a special one

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Speaker 1: off podcast. And so this is the Art of Being

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Speaker 1: Well is technically my second podcast.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So you've been doing all of this for

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Speaker 2: a minute, is what I'm gathering here. And you also

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Speaker 2: know the benefit of listening, right because for you, it's

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Speaker 2: so critical to listen to your patients so that you

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Speaker 2: can fully understand what they're going through and then you

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Speaker 2: can execute on your skill set.

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Speaker 3: So really it does all kind of go hand in

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Speaker 3: hand together.

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Speaker 1: It does. It does. Basically what I'm saying is every podcaster,

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Speaker 1: if they're good at it, they don't know they could

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Speaker 1: really do a consultation really well.

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Speaker 2: If they're a good listener, you might need a little

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Speaker 2: bit of education.

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Speaker 1: Yes, today it's a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: So talk to us a little bit about your background then,

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Speaker 2: before we dive into what I'd love to focus on

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Speaker 2: here today, talking about the gut reverencing your upcoming book,

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Speaker 2: Gut Feelings, Healing the shame fueled relationship between what you

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Speaker 2: eat and how you feel. So before we get into

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Speaker 2: the gut and this book and all the excitement, talk

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Speaker 2: to us a little bit about what made you want

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Speaker 2: to get into the field of medicine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was, I guess, in hindsight, a really

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Speaker 1: weird kid. I My first job was at finish line

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Speaker 1: at the mall. And I used to sell like tennis

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Speaker 1: shoes as a sixteen year old, and I'd use my

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Speaker 1: paycheck to go to the food health food store and

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Speaker 1: buy the latest superfood I'd read about the latest like

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Speaker 1: supplement herb that I read about. And I was biohacking

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Speaker 1: before biohacking was a thing, and I just was a

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Speaker 1: weird kid. I'd packed my lunches with like bell peppers

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Speaker 1: and just like eat whole bell peppers as my lunch,

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Speaker 1: not what other teenagers are doing. And I realized that

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Speaker 1: in hindsight that wow, like that is strange, but I

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Speaker 1: think that formed a lot of theo's are formative times

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Speaker 1: in our lives, right. And I really was just a

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Speaker 1: passionate about researching, and if you know anything about the

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Speaker 1: Enneagram personality thing type, I'm an Enneagram five W, which

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Speaker 1: is a researcher. And that served me well with my

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Speaker 1: job and just kind of like just double down on

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Speaker 1: things that I'm passionate about, and that evolved in too

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Speaker 1: me want to be formally trained in this. So I

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Speaker 1: went to an integrated medicine school called Southern California University

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Speaker 1: of Health Sciences outside of LA and just learned all

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Speaker 1: about clinical nutrition and functional medicine and being trained there formally,

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Speaker 1: and I graduated knowing I wanted to be really focused

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Speaker 1: in functional medicine, and yeah, the rest is what I've

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Speaker 1: been doing for the best thirteen years. My day job.

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Speaker 1: We started a telehealth centered thirteen years ago. It's the

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Speaker 1: first really in the world in functional medicine, but we

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Speaker 1: didn't have the language for functional medicine back then. We

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Speaker 1: would call it. We call it a virtual functional Medicine center.

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Speaker 1: That's in my mind how I described in words what

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Speaker 1: we were doing. Then telehealth became a thing later on

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Speaker 1: in life, I said, oh, that's what I've been doing

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Speaker 1: all this time. So it's just people in different states

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Speaker 1: and countries that needed access to this exciting field of healthcare,

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Speaker 1: like how do we figure out what's going on? And

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Speaker 1: functional medicine that the goal of what we do is

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Speaker 1: really get to the root cause, but in an evidence

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Speaker 1: based way. So we want to run more comprehensive labs.

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Speaker 1: You want to look at beyond the surface stuff. And

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Speaker 1: ultimately it's predicated on bioindividuality. We're all different and there's

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Speaker 1: not going to be this cookie cutter, one size fits

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Speaker 1: all approach to getting well, and it's typically a confluence

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Speaker 1: of factors and a confluence of tools that will get

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Speaker 1: somebody better. So it is that's kind of been a

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Speaker 1: nutshell how I got to where I'm at and how

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Speaker 1: we do things in functional medicine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and God, there's so many people listening to this

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Speaker 2: right now who cannot even think about or imagine what

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Speaker 2: the last few years specifically would have been like without telehealth.

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Speaker 2: As a practitioner within that space, how has maybe your

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Speaker 2: viewpoint or what you've had to navigate over the last

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Speaker 2: few years informed you on where we go now?

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Speaker 1: For me, you know a lot of my colleagues they

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Speaker 1: had to pivot p quickly right over when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about twenty twenty and beyond, you know, years later now,

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Speaker 1: it's like they had to figure things out overnight. How

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Speaker 1: do we get do our what we do in a

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Speaker 1: tech way? You know, I just it was it was

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Speaker 1: a blessing for us in the sense that we had

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Speaker 1: always been doing it, so our day we didn't change.

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Speaker 1: I know that we are so blessed in privileged, Like

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Speaker 1: so many people's lives changed when it came to their

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Speaker 1: job and their life and how they did things twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty and beyond other than me not traveling for work

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Speaker 1: because I would travel to speak at different things. That's

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Speaker 1: the only thing that changed my day job literally changed over.

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Speaker 1: Like I have a long standing I have a long

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Speaker 1: term relationship with Zoom, Like Zoom has been my friend

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Speaker 1: for a long time, and like twenty twenty game, I'm like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I've always been on Zoom, So it's that's kind of

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Speaker 1: where does it go from here? I think what I

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Speaker 1: really loved about the silver lining and such a devastating

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Speaker 1: time in human history, I think was people learning that

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Speaker 1: we could reimagine how we did things and how we

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Speaker 1: used to do things wasn't always the most efficient. How

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Speaker 1: we were doing things wasn't the most effective always, and

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Speaker 1: people like thought they had to go drive to the

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Speaker 1: gym and wait in traffic and park and go in.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, oh no, how can we move our

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Speaker 1: bodies in our homes? Like how can we be effective

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Speaker 1: and be more efficient? Or like with a doctor, like

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Speaker 1: can we we can do what we've always done here?

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Speaker 1: But people now realize, oh, it's a thing like telehealth,

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Speaker 1: it's a thing I can I can go and see

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Speaker 1: my doctor with in my pajamas at eight o'clock in

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Speaker 1: the morning while I'm sipping coffee, and that's not a

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Speaker 1: bad thing. That's a better use of your time thing.

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Speaker 1: And actually, in my way that we model things in

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Speaker 1: functional medicine, it's very more immersive, right. It's this It's

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Speaker 1: like having a doctor in your own living room because

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Speaker 1: we're there with everybody, because we have more of a

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Speaker 1: concierge telehealth model, right, you know.

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Speaker 2: And the thing that I want to make sure that

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Speaker 2: we touch on is the concept of functional medicine, right,

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Speaker 2: different than other practice, other areas of medicine.

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Speaker 3: Functional medicine.

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Speaker 2: It's just so interesting because I believe, as you put it,

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Speaker 2: like you're really getting to the root of the problem, right,

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Speaker 2: Like why are you ill? It's not like like, oh

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Speaker 2: I'm here, I'm telling you I have a headache and

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Speaker 2: you're like, here, have some ibuprofen. You are going to

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Speaker 2: ask about all of these other factors that play into

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Speaker 2: what you may actually have a headache. So why did

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Speaker 2: you decide that functional medicine was where it was at

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Speaker 2: for you?

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Speaker 1: I'm just I think I have more of an engineering

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Speaker 1: mind in that way where I want to get to

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Speaker 1: the root cause of it. To me, it's like there's

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Speaker 1: a time and place like you mentioned, like the ibuprofen.

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Speaker 1: If I have a headache, there's no shame in taking

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Speaker 1: ibuprofen and it.

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Speaker 3: So totally yeah.

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Speaker 1: But if somebody's like having headaches day in, day out,

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Speaker 1: what's the sustainability of that, Like is that going to

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Speaker 1: be hard on your liver? Is it going to be

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Speaker 1: hard on your digestive system? Well, yeah, chronic use of

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Speaker 1: end sets will do that, So ultimately you don't nobody

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Speaker 1: has a headache to use that example from an end

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Speaker 1: set deficiency. So let's figure out like why we have

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Speaker 1: the inflammation in the first place, to go upstream or

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Speaker 1: to the root of the problem. So to me, as

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Speaker 1: a researcher a problem solver, I just want to get

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Speaker 1: to the figure that out. And it's interesting our top

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Speaker 1: patient base at the telehealth center here, it's like our

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Speaker 1: top patient base are people. Nurses are our nurses profession

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Speaker 1: wise our nurses, school teachers and engineers, and I find

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Speaker 1: that they have an all they have common love of

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Speaker 1: getting to the root cause of Excel spreadsheets, tracking data,

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Speaker 1: and like, let's figure out this problem for the teachers'

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Speaker 1: let's let's improve our grade. If we have a bad lab,

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Speaker 1: let's get that lab looking good. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: this common love of saying, like, look, the body's telling

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Speaker 1: us something like what, let's figure this out, Like what's

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Speaker 1: long term? What's the solution here? Like maybe in the

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Speaker 1: short term we need that medication, but in the long like,

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Speaker 1: how do we deal with this? We don't have to

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Speaker 1: be on this pill every day?

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Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely all right. So segueing here into a conversation

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Speaker 2: on the GUT. I realized before we sat down today,

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Speaker 2: and I literally can't believe that I'm saying this. I

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Speaker 2: have never had someone on the show to talk about

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Speaker 2: the gut. I've been doing this for four years, and

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Speaker 2: it actually blows my mind and I'm kind of embarrassed

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Speaker 2: to admit this.

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Speaker 3: So just need to get that off of my chest.

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Speaker 2: But what I will move forward and say is that

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Speaker 2: it is obviously very important. It is something that I

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Speaker 2: feel like we cannot escape from when it comes to

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Speaker 2: the day to day news cycle. The buzziest articles, the

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Speaker 2: buzziest topics are people talking about all things gut and

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Speaker 2: how it interplays into every aspect of our life.

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Speaker 3: So let's start there.

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Speaker 2: Why is it important to prioritize the well being of

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Speaker 2: your gut.

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Speaker 1: Well, I feel honored the fact that this is the

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Speaker 1: first conversation. I mean, I feel like this is good

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Speaker 1: and we're going to get way beyond the basics here.

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Speaker 1: I mean, people know about gut health. I'll touch on

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Speaker 1: the basics, but like I just want, I have so

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Speaker 1: much to talk about. Your gut and brain are formed

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Speaker 1: from the same fetal tissue. So when babies are growing

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Speaker 1: in their mother's womb, all of us right we were growing.

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Speaker 1: Our gut and brain are formed from that same tissue,

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Speaker 1: and it's inextricably linked for the rest of our life

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Speaker 1: through what's known in the research in the scientific literature

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Speaker 1: as the gut brain axis, or the connection between the

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Speaker 1: gut and the brain. So if you think about it,

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Speaker 1: the intestines kind of even resemble the brain. So ninety

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Speaker 1: five percent of saratnin shockingly, ninety five percent of our

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Speaker 1: happy neurotransmitter is made in the gut, stored in the gut.

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Speaker 1: Fifty percent of dopamine, our pleasure neurotransmitter, is made in

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Speaker 1: the gut, stored in the gut. So there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of far reaching implications both from a neurotransmitter production standpoint,

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Speaker 1: but also the bacteria in our gut. We have upwards

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Speaker 1: of one hundred trillion bacteria known collectively as the microbiome.

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Speaker 1: The sort of this microbiometropolis gut garden that influences digestion

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Speaker 1: but also influences neuro transmitter also influences how hormones are converted,

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Speaker 1: like the thyroid hormone, and it converts so many things

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Speaker 1: in the body sore from the bacteria to the neurotransmitter production.

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Speaker 1: Two seventy five percent of the immune system is in

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Speaker 1: originating in the gut. Inflammation is a product of the

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Speaker 1: immune system. Just about every health problem under the sun

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Speaker 1: is inflammatory in nature, from autoimmune problems, many hormone problems,

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Speaker 1: metabolic issues, weight less resistance, type two diabetes, to the

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Speaker 1: biggest killers in our society like heart disease and cancer too.

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Speaker 1: As I talked about in Gut Feelings, this field of

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Speaker 1: research called the cytokine model of cognitive function. Cytokines are

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Speaker 1: pro inflammatory cells. It's research looking at how does inflammation

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Speaker 1: impact how our brain works, how does inflammation impact mental health?

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Speaker 1: And really having a conversation in the book, we like

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Speaker 1: to separate in the West, mental health from physical health,

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Speaker 1: but in reality, mental health is physical health. Our brain

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Speaker 1: is a part of our body just as much as

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Speaker 1: anything else. So it's really a conversation of this gut

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Speaker 1: feeling connection because it's one thing to say, what inflammation's

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Speaker 1: the commonality of these different health problems, but then it's

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Speaker 1: the commonality ultimately, something's causing a dysregulation of the inflammation

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Speaker 1: levels in the body. Because inflammation is inherently bad. It's

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Speaker 1: a product of the immune system. It's meant to fight

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Speaker 1: off viruses and kill off bacteria. But what's causing chronic

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Speaker 1: inflammation that's sort of that forest fire that's burning in perpetuity.

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Speaker 1: That's the problem, that's the link between all these health problems.

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Speaker 1: So what is causing the inflammation? And that's really what

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Speaker 1: I'm exploring, And gut feelings, both the gut and the feelings,

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Speaker 1: the physiological and the psychological, the physical stuff and the mental, emotional,

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Speaker 1: spiritual stuff. Both of these facets are what's causing the

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Speaker 1: chronic inflammation that we are that's plugging our society day

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Speaker 1: And there's so much gut centric components to all of that.

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Speaker 1: So yes, it's way more than just going to the bathroom,

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Speaker 1: Like going to the bathroom is important, like having normal

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Speaker 1: what we say, like one to two snakes a day

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Speaker 1: on the Bristol chart, Like that's normal as far as

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Speaker 1: you go into the bathroom, But it's so much more

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Speaker 1: than that. It really has far reaching implications totally.

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Speaker 2: And what you're getting at here, and what we're going

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Speaker 2: to continue to talk about is the fact that we're

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Speaker 2: not just talking about like what you're putting into your

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Speaker 2: system in terms of nutrition, We're also talking about your

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Speaker 2: mental emotional state, right, and how that interplays with how

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Speaker 2: your gut functions triggering that inflammation.

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely so, it's bidirectional and the physical stuff like

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Speaker 1: underlying gut problems, nutrient deficiencies, like chronic infections, like we

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Speaker 1: see a lot of mold toxicity and chronic lyme disease

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Speaker 1: and environmental toxicity. How these physiological things will impact our mood.

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Speaker 1: It'll impact things like anxiety and depression, brain fall and fatigue.

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Speaker 1: But then conversely, as you said, things like chronic stress

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Speaker 1: and trauma and shame, these things will impact our physical health.

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Speaker 1: So for my patients with autoimmune inflammation issues, hormonal problems,

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Speaker 1: menabolic issues, oftentimes we don't give that side of things,

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Speaker 1: the feeling side of things. How can things like past

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Speaker 1: unresolved trauma be impacting the way my metabolism is functioning

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Speaker 1: the way to impact in my digestion now, So it is.

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Speaker 1: The science is fascinating. It sounds like science fiction, but

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Speaker 1: it's in fact being very well researched in scientific literature

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Speaker 1: and something that I got to write about in gut Feelings.

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Speaker 2: For someone that does really want to work on bettering

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Speaker 2: their gut unlessening that inflammation. I know in the book

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Speaker 2: you provide this framework for us to better understand the

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Speaker 2: gut brain connection and influence that connection for the better.

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Speaker 3: So where does someone begin.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think, first of all, I think

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Speaker 1: taking inventory of your health I think is a good

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Speaker 1: place to start, because many people don't really know there's

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Speaker 1: a problem, like it's just because something is there every day,

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Speaker 1: they will normalize it for themselves. There's so much like

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Speaker 1: self gaslighting that we do for ourselves where it's like,

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Speaker 1: well we compare ourselves to someone worse offt than us,

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Speaker 1: and that's not that bad. Like I I could go

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Speaker 1: to work, I can like do life if my trauma

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Speaker 1: I don't if my trauma's not bad compared to that person,

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Speaker 1: or my digestion, my health symptoms aren't as bad as

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Speaker 1: that person. So I think, first of all, just having

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Speaker 1: a real conversation is not comparing yourself to other people,

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Speaker 1: but just saying, am I feeling my best? Like? Am

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Speaker 1: I where I want to be? And I think that's

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Speaker 1: our comparison culture, this sort of fomo culture, we have

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Speaker 1: anyways of just like getting out of our own head

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Speaker 1: and be in our bodies and just saying where do

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Speaker 1: we want to be? Be our own and of one

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Speaker 1: experiment and if we're at like a five out of

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Speaker 1: ten energy, like, let's be ten out of ten and

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Speaker 1: not saying, well, yeah, technically you're five out of ten

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Speaker 1: to somebody else's you can get a two out of

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Speaker 1: ten and energy too, But it's ultimately, let's be the

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Speaker 1: best version of you and taking inventory of things like

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Speaker 1: your energy levels, of your sleep, of your sex drive,

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Speaker 1: of your metabolism, of your hair, your skin, your nails.

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Speaker 1: All this stuff's important because we only have one life.

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Speaker 1: So I think just being the best version of ourselves

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Speaker 1: is as a worthy cause and wanting to live the

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Speaker 1: best life you want to live. So that's step number

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Speaker 1: one and then step number two. I mean, that's why

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Speaker 1: I wrote the books, so people to really be empowered

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Speaker 1: to have agency over their health. A lot of these

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Speaker 1: things are free or low cost stuff that they can

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Speaker 1: start integrating into their life and to put together a

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Speaker 1: protocol in the book that's really just what are the

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Speaker 1: top science backed ways to support your gut and support

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Speaker 1: your feelings the physiological and the psychological and lean into it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, if you're looking on the physical side,

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Speaker 1: it starts with food. One of the things that I

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Speaker 1: talk about in the book is something called a GAPS protocol,

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Speaker 1: which is an acronym GAPS. GAPS that stands for gut

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Speaker 1: and psychology syndrome or gut and physiology syndrome. So we

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Speaker 1: use it for different brain health issues like brain fog, fatigue, anxiety,

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Speaker 1: and depression, and gut and physiology syndrome physiologically meaning inflammation. Largely,

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Speaker 1: we deal with a lot of different auto immune inflammation issues.

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Speaker 1: So lots of soups and stews, and I give lots

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Speaker 1: of recipes in the book for people to really kind

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Speaker 1: of nourish their gut, they nourish their second brain, nourish

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Speaker 1: two thirds of their immune system of where inflammations originating

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Speaker 1: to camb like a proverbial siesta for their guts, to

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Speaker 1: repair their gut and kind of reset their gut health

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Speaker 1: in a positive way, which will not only improve their

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Speaker 1: digestion if that's a goal for them, but also the

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Speaker 1: downstream cascade positive ripple effects you're going to have, i e.

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Speaker 1: Improving your brain health, which in communicates through their endocrine

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Speaker 1: system your hormones, which will also impact your systemic inflammation

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Speaker 1: as well. So that's kind of a gut action item.

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Speaker 1: And on a feeling side of it, we talk about

434
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: things like somatic practice, which the research around that is

435
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,360
Speaker 1: just fascinating in me of how you could through body

436
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: movement you can metabolize stored unresolved trauma and things and

437
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 1: release things that maybe didn't even know you need to release.

438
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: And it's something that I talk about in the book,

439
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: this concept of shameflammation of how things like shame and

440
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 1: stress and trauma, how does it impact your body and

441
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: really clearing out that shameflammation through different physical modalities.

442
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel as though someone hears this and

443
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 2: their immediate question is Okay, moving my body can help

444
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 2: me process things that otherwise would not have been processed.

445
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 2: But in what capacity? Right are you? Or does the

446
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: research say is fifteen minutes a day okay? Is five

447
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 2: minutes a day okay? Is walking okay? Or is this

448
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 2: something that I really need to pour so much time into?

449
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a great question. I think consistency is key,

450
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 1: but you don't have to be and I actually think

451
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: it's there's diminishing returns actually because the more isn't always

452
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 1: better with this stuff. I think for most people, in

453
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 1: most cases, consistency with the simple stuff is important, So

454
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: you don't have to be this eficionado biohacking person, which,

455
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: like I said, I talk a lot about that in

456
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: the book, where I think it can become the source

457
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: of obsession. And I talk a lot about orthorexia, which

458
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 1: is disordered eating around healthy foods. And it's in my opinion, yes,

459
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,959
Speaker 1: orthorexia is more strictly defined as disordered eating around healthy foods.

460
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: But I think there's this orthorexic umbrella within the wellness

461
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: community where people can be obsessive about anything within wellness,

462
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: about exercise, about all the biohacking stuff they're seeing on Instagram,

463
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: like ultimately shaming your way and obsessing your way into

464
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: wellness is empathetical to sustainable wellness. So I would say

465
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: I would not advise people to spend hours on this

466
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 1: stuff because I think it's keeping it simple and being

467
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: consistent with the simple things that are like to you,

468
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: meaning things that are like actually you enjoy and you

469
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: can stay consistent with it, and sustainable for you is

470
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: where the sustainable results come from. Because if it's too much,

471
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 1: if like the barrier to entry is so high, you

472
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: can grit your teeth and like gruelingly put hours into

473
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: your wellness every day, it's probably going to be unsustainable.

474
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: But even if it is sustainable, it'll be such a

475
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: source of dread and negativity and like obsession that it

476
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: will counteract like any potential benefits. Hypothetically they come along

477
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: with it. Because I say in the book, you can't

478
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 1: heal a body you hate. You cannot shame your way

479
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: into wellness. So stressing about healthy foods is not good

480
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: for your health. Stressing about cold plunges and sonnets or

481
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: whatever like biohacking thing you read online isn't good for

482
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: your health. So I answer your question more pointedly, I

483
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: would say most of the action items I talked about

484
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: in the book are about fifteen minutes, if that fifteen thirty minutes,

485
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: it's really nothing long.

486
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I also love like the point that you're

487
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 2: driving home aboutcusing on your own journey and not comparing

488
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 2: it to that of whomever you may be scrolling by

489
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 2: on the internet. Right, because what feels good for you

490
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 2: in your body, paying attention to that is just so

491
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 2: important compared to just doing something because you feel as

492
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 2: though you're supposed to be doing it.

493
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it is so true. And also what serves you

494
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: today or what is light to you today isn't necessarily

495
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: what you always have to do. So it's another message

496
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,360
Speaker 1: in the book. It's like it's okay to pivot, it's

497
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: okay to evolve, it's okay to self experiment, and your

498
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: tools within your d wellness toolbox should involve over time,

499
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: and you may pick some other things up as you

500
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: learn more. You may take some things out because they

501
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: served you for a season but not anymore. So I

502
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: think that's another source of shame inflammation. Many people find

503
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: themselves too. They may think, oh, I eat this certain

504
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: way and like it becomes an identity, but then like

505
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: I see a lot this with vegans and vegetarians and

506
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 1: even keto people and like these carnivore people, like it's

507
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: like their identity is in this sort of food tribalism,

508
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: which I really go hard at in the book to

509
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: just say like that's not that's best necessarily the healthiest

510
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: way to be defined, and it's okay to pivot and

511
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: evolve and just like learn over time. And there's so

512
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: much health related shame when it comes to food in

513
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: people's body that is just again very counterproductive when you're

514
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: talking about sustainable wellness.

515
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: So I know, we started off talking about the mind

516
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 2: gut connection. We talked about what you reference to be

517
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 2: I believe the word is shame inflammation. Beyond shame inflammation

518
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,239
Speaker 2: and the way that we're talking to ourselves talk to

519
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 2: me a little bit about how mindfulness can actually also

520
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 2: be beneficial when it comes to taking care of our

521
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: gut health.

522
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: Wow, it's huge. I mean, these are like I talked

523
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: in the book about like feeding your gut brain access,

524
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: but also feeding your head in your heart, Like how

525
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,719
Speaker 1: can you feed both the physiological and the psychological and

526
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: really realize that I call them metaphysical meals. Like these

527
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: things we're serving our head in our heart are just

528
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: as influential on our physiology. I hear physical health as

529
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: the breakfast, lunch, and dinner and snacks that you're having.

530
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: But it's a lot more nebulous because that's very black

531
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: and white and prescriptive for me to say, Okay, these

532
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: foods are going to disrupt your microbiome, your gun health,

533
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: like decrease those these foods are going to love you back,

534
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: like focus on the things that love you back. It's very,

535
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: very linear. But the side of the feeling, side of

536
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: gut feelings is a lot more ambiguous in the sense

537
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: of it's a lot more complex to unpack, where it's

538
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: you can't tell somebody don't stress and then they stress

539
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: about not stressing, or you can't tell them not to

540
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: have the shame or just drop that trauma, like it

541
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: doesn't work that way. Sadly, it's not a thing, So

542
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: it's it. But I want, I really wanted to really

543
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: tackle these complex issues because I see them being lynch

544
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 1: pins to people reclaiming their health, so it is something

545
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: that needs to be addressed. And shameflammation, it's just a massive,

546
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: massive problem, and there's so much shame around different things

547
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: like unresolved massive problem with shame. So people have so

548
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: much shame about it, they don't want to talk it.

549
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: They can talk about it, they can get defensive about it.

550
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: They don't know where to start to even deal with

551
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: it or address it, and that's manifesting in their health.

552
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: And the science is very very clear that one of

553
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: the things we ask patients to fill out and we

554
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: talk about it during their initial telehealth console is an

555
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: ACE score an adverse childhood experience score, So we're talking

556
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: about very sensitive, deep things like sexual trauma growing up,

557
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: physical abuse growing up, neglect growing up, and so much

558
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: heavy stuff like that. And the higher the acecore, research

559
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: shows later on in life, we're more likely to have

560
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: triggered autoimmune inflammation issues or metabolic issues, trouble losing weight

561
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: or energy issues, chronic fatigue syndrome, and hypervigilant nervous system, anxiety, depression, etc. So,

562
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: how do we take that and to start that shame

563
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: inflammation that's manifesting in your health today but it's from

564
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: stuff in the past. How do we start to shift

565
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: our immune system i e. Lowering inflammation and our nervous

566
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: system shifting it into more of a parasympathetic, resting, digesting

567
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: hormone balance state. So that's shameflammation and action. It's around trauma,

568
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: but it's also around chronic stress. I think I see

569
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: a lot of people that in our hustle culture and burnouts,

570
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: this badge of honor that's sort of deified. When people

571
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: are chronically stressed to varying degrees, they can feel a

572
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: lot of shame because they're not the good enough partner

573
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: because they're not there. They're they're snapping at their kids,

574
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: they're just irritable. They're not making the right food choices

575
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: for them, They're eating foods that don't love them back

576
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: because it's not like going for the easy, quick, convenient stuff.

577
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: There's a lot of body and health related shame too.

578
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: So shame flammation is a massive party they talk about

579
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: in the book, and it's complex, but I really show

580
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: in the book, like what I've seen with patients, be

581
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: the most effective tools to sort of decrease that shame

582
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: inflammation by increasing things that I call acts of stillness,

583
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: Like what are the things that are supportive of lowering

584
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: inflammation and increasing the para sympathetic aspect of the autonomic

585
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: nervous system, like self compassion is a good example. Like

586
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: self compassion is the antithesis of shame. So research shows

587
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 1: that people that have the most stress and shame, they

588
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: have the highest and Interluken six levels like these are

589
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: inflammatory levels. But people that have the highest self compassion

590
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: scores they have the lowest amount of inflammation levels. So

591
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: simple practices of consistent daily not too much not you

592
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: don't have to live in an astromen middle of nowhere.

593
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: You can really just cultivate practical, sustainable self compassion tools

594
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: to lower inflammation levels to counteract that problem.

595
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: If you were to recommend any sort of a gateway,

596
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 2: perhaps into a mindfulness or a meditation practice, where would

597
00:31:59,200 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 2: you land?

598
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: So I think self compassion. I don't know if you

599
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: could classify that as meditation. I think it is because

600
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: it's getting you out of your head and into your body,

601
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: So it's a meditation tool. Loving kindness meditation, I guess

602
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: would be would be a type of meditation that would

603
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: fall under that category of cultivating self compassion towards yourself,

604
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: but also compassion for other people in our world. So

605
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,479
Speaker 1: that's a great entry point. But people's entry points going

606
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: to look different and I gave give people about twenty

607
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: one different feeling action items that include different meditations practices

608
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: that are shown in the research to help the shame

609
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: inflammation response to calm inflammation levels in the body, to

610
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: shift our nervous system and how we think about ourselves.

611
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: Breath work is another one. I think breath working could

612
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: be an entry point. But here's a thing. Some people

613
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: will say, well, meditation's not for me, right, It's like

614
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: I'm not a good meditator. Meditation is not for me. Normally,

615
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 1: the people that say that are the people that need

616
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: to do it the most. Like their body's so stuck

617
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: in that fight or flight stress state that it's very

618
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: uncomfortable to not be in your thoughts. You want to

619
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: be in those ruminating thoughts all day long, and that

620
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: mindfulness muscle is weak. So it would be like me

621
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: going never going to the gym. Let's say I never

622
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: went to the gym, and I would just go to

623
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: the gym once and it wasn't good at it, and

624
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: I'd say, oh, that gym's not for me. You know.

625
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: It's just it's not the gym's fault. It's my weak

626
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: muscles that are the fault. And I have just train them.

627
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: Many people's nervous systems so dysregulated that it's that parasympathetic

628
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: nervous system is weak, so they need to flex that

629
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: parasympathetic which is going to take time. Meditation is literally

630
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: it's vagual nerve workout. And people's vagual nerve, which is

631
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: the largest cranial nerve in the body, is responsible for

632
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: the paris tobiltic nervous system largely, which is the resting,

633
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: digesting hormone balance. Like Zendau, I feel chilled and regulated

634
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: mechanism of our autonomic nervous system. So but the question

635
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: is what's the best type of meditation. The one that's consistent,

636
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: you can be consistent with, that's the best type of meditation.

637
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: So it's for some people it's going to be you know,

638
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: box breathing. That's going to be anchoring yourself in the

639
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: present moment and getting you out of your head and

640
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: in your body to the next person. It could be

641
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: a body scan or present moment awareness, or you know

642
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: Eckar Tootalia talks about inner body awareness, or it could

643
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: be breathwork. I talk about holotropic breath work, which is

644
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: it came out of the research of psychedelics, and it's

645
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 1: just amazing science around that of metabolizing store trauma or

646
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: something like shinrin yoku. It's using nature as a meditation.

647
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: The research out of Japan and South Korea are really

648
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: just taking in nature as a sort of sensorial medicine,

649
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: if you will, and a meditation to calm inflammation, to

650
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: regulate the nervous system. So that's why I mean, it's

651
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: like when I give people all of these tools, I'm

652
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: not saying you have to do all of the tools,

653
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 1: but I want you to experiment with these different things

654
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: at least once to say, how did this make me feel?

655
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 1: Did this reson with me? Was it not my jam?

656
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: There's no shame if it wasn't your jam, because you

657
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: can have other tools to help strengthen that vagus nerve.

658
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love that. There's no shame if it's

659
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 2: not your jam. You have to have the awareness to

660
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 2: have the grease with yourself so that you can then

661
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 2: move forward and find the tool that does feel like

662
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 2: it's your jam. Now I would be you're amiss. I

663
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: know they want to know. We talked about the term

664
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 2: foods that love you back. So doctor Cole just give

665
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 2: us a few.

666
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 1: Well, I mean food tribalism. There's diet toxic tribalism that's

667
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: happening in our culture today, between what I would call

668
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: toxic diet culture and then on the other side, toxic

669
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: anti diet culture, or one side is saying basically, you

670
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: shame your way into wellness, eat less, work out more.

671
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: It's restriction culture. And then the other side is like

672
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: the polar opposite rebound response that says, there's notes that's sing,

673
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: is a bad food, eat whatever you want, and it's

674
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: all in the name of body positivity. And I would

675
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: say both are really falling short and causing a lot

676
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: of food confusion out there, because the fact is, clinical

677
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: nutrition is still a thing, and there's going to be

678
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: still some foods that mess up your blood sugar, that

679
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: raise inflammation, that impact your digestion negatively, that making brain

680
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: fog and fatigued, and avoiding those foods isn't restrictive in

681
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: self respect. So it's really talking about this. The analogy

682
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: that I use in the book is equating people's relationship

683
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: with food is almost like a relationship with another human being,

684
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: Like it's a very personal, intimate thing, right, and what's

685
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: our coping mechanisms with food, what's our relationship with food

686
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,919
Speaker 1: and our body? And continuing to eat foods that don't

687
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: love you back is like staying in this toxic relationship

688
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: and wondering why you're still freaking miserable, but avoiding them.

689
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: As I said, foods that don't love you back is

690
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: a form of self respect. But there's a lot of

691
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: bioindividuality with this conversation, So there is a lot of nuance.

692
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: There is a lot of like, Okay, just because something's healthy,

693
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: what works for one person may not be right for me.

694
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: That is where we're losing it, because it's there's a

695
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: lot of gray areas and all of these things exist

696
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: on a spectrum. That's what I look at all day

697
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: long on labs, Like what works for one person may

698
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: not be right for you. So there's a lot of

699
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: uniqueness between all of us. And ultimately, if we all

700
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: ate the same way and worked out the same way,

701
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: and did all the wellness and stuff the same way,

702
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: we still would all look different. And that's okay. I

703
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: want you to be the best version of you and

704
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: me to be the best version of me, and we're

705
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: all going to be different. Sizes and we're all going

706
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: to look different. So to answer your question like what

707
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 1: foods don't love you back, part of it is look

708
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: just being self experimenting. How do you feel when you

709
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: eat foods? I call it food piece. It's like still

710
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: acknowledging the fact that some foods are not good for

711
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: any human being, but ultimately being your own and of

712
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: one experiment and seeing what your body loves and what

713
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: your body hates and using meals as a meditation and

714
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: a medicine. So if you eat that food and it

715
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: made you feel like crap, you can take use it

716
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: as a meditation. Maybe it was worth it. Maybe you

717
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: were hanging out with your friends and you ate it

718
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: and it was like, yeah, but there was worth it.

719
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: I was hanging out with them and I had a

720
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: fun time. Then drop it like shame is worse than

721
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: any junk food. But you may use it as a

722
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: meditation and say, you know what, I'm not going to

723
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: do that next time. You're going to grow an awareness

724
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: body awareness for next time to say no, I would

725
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: rather feel great hang out with my friends, but I

726
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 1: don't want to eat things that make me feel good,

727
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: Like I'd rather feel great more than I thought I

728
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,959
Speaker 1: wanted that food, and it's like a bad trade off.

729
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: So this is sort of the paradigm shift of food

730
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: piece that I think is just paramount for sustainable wellness

731
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: because it's not this list of dos and don'ts of like, oh,

732
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: I can't have that. As I say in the book,

733
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: eat whatever you want, but start to grow and awareness

734
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,439
Speaker 1: of using meals as a meditation. But that said, there's

735
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: some foods that are going to pretty much impact everybody

736
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: negatively to different degrees because of bioindividuality. Like looking at

737
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 1: the amount of sugar you're consuming in a day is

738
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: a good idea for everybody. Some people can have more

739
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 1: than others because of bioindividuality. But being mindful of how

740
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: many grams of added sugar you're consuming in a day,

741
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: it's going to mess up your mood, it's going to

742
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: mess up your digestion, it's gonna raise your inflammation, it's

743
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: going to show up in your face for some people

744
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 1: in the form of breakouts. But again, decreasing that isn't restrictive.

745
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: It's like, no, I like feeling better, Let's like, let's

746
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: find some better alternatives that love me back so I

747
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: can still enjoy my food, but not be like paying

748
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 1: for it the next day.

749
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 2: Right, And I feel that so often we hear such

750
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 2: an emphasis on fermented foods. You know, you go to

751
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 2: any buzzy clickbait article online you want to read about

752
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 2: what's good for your gut, You're going to hear all

753
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: about kiefer and kim chi and sauerkraut and so on

754
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 2: and so forth and so well. My question for you,

755
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: as someone who is knee deep in this work, is, truly,

756
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: if someone was to eat all of these foods, could

757
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 2: they be making a major mistake? Are they just being

758
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 2: led astray by these publications?

759
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, the answer is yes. I don't want to I

760
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: talk about it in the book a little bit. I

761
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: don't want to create like fear around this. But look,

762
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm used to a lot of bioindividuality. And for every

763
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 1: healthy food under the sun I can find you, I

764
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: can think of ten patients or more that. What I

765
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: mean is like, for every ten patients that it worked,

766
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: ten patients that it didn't. There's a lot of bioindividuality

767
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: with this. Yes, decreasing sugar is a good idea. Increasing

768
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: things like complete proteins, make sure you're optimizing protein which

769
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: is the raw materials for your neurotransmitters like your serotonin,

770
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: your dopamine, your seat of coal, and your gabba. Yeah,

771
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 1: that's good. Healthy fats are a good idea to support

772
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: your brain health and your hormone health. And you sell

773
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: you their health like there's some low hanging fruits so

774
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: to speak. I mean speaking of fruits like that. Fruits

775
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: are another thing, Like antioxidant rich fruits are really good idea.

776
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: Eating fiber rich foods for your got microbiome good idea.

777
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: But you talk about I mean, let's just call out

778
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: the probiotic foods. I think they're wonderful for many people.

779
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: I talk about them in the book as a tool,

780
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: But there are some people that are and we see

781
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: this growing problem, just as we're seeing growing more complex

782
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 1: auto immune issues and food sensitivity issues and these sort

783
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: of like reactions, right that whatever the classic conventional advice

784
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: on the clickbaity article about like gut health for example,

785
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: or anything else, they're not having good responses from it.

786
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: So probiotic rich foods are strong modulators of the immune system,

787
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: right because they're probiotic rich, they have bacteria in them,

788
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 1: and they're fermented because of that so fermented foods are

789
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: higher in histamines. So something that I see clinically a

790
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 1: lot is that people overdo these fermented foods. It actually

791
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: can feel worse, It can increase things like brain fog,

792
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: digestive problems, things like migrains, because more isn't always better.

793
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: So I would just say be judicious with these things.

794
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: They're good things to bring in. I think generally speaking,

795
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: people need more fermented foods in their body. But bioindividuality,

796
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: I guess is what I'm trying to say. That is,

797
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: if you have a food that's like you read it

798
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: in a clickbaity article and you're like, dang, like this

799
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: doesn't work for me, what's wrong? Maybe try having less

800
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: or don't try something else, Like it doesn't mat mean

801
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: just because you read it in an article you need

802
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: to be having so much of.

803
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 2: It totally, and like, listen, you don't need to convince

804
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 2: me on bioindividuality. I feel like, especially as I get

805
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,959
Speaker 2: older and like trying to get even more and more

806
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 2: dialed into what's working for me and my body and

807
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: understanding that the way that my body feels and is

808
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 2: now is just so different than when I was in

809
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 2: you know, my early twenties versus my mid thirties, right,

810
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 2: But which is why tools for me like I do

811
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 2: regular inside Tracker panels, and they're so helpful for me

812
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: to gain an understanding of where I'm at, what my

813
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 2: levels are, and then also the recommendations honestly on what

814
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 2: I should be incorporating more of, because that is information

815
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 2: that is specific to me and not something that I

816
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 2: just like scrolled through on Google.

817
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: Exactly, I think. But I love direct to consumer labs

818
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: like inside track or two because even well, hey, I

819
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: went initial consultations. I love when they already have this

820
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: data because we have something to talk about in the lab.

821
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: I love them because you don't even need a functional

822
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: medicine doctor many times, like I want people to have

823
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: agency or their health on their own, and maybe those

824
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 1: maybe they'll need a functional medicine doctor at some point

825
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: in their life, but many people don't and they're just

826
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: looking to optimize how they feel. And you can get

827
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: your own real time data on information like that and that. Yeah,

828
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 1: people behind these labs like inside Tracker, he's super smart

829
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: and and all these other people that are sort of

830
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: harnessing tag and data, so you kind of get the

831
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: gatekeeper out of the way. I think the decentralization of

832
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 1: healthcare is so important because this is our body, right.

833
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, snaps to that.

834
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 2: Well, I'm so excited and happy that we were able

835
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 2: to make some time here. I would be remiss if

836
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 2: I didn't ask you before you go, is there any

837
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 2: like nugget of wisdom that you want to leave us

838
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 2: with so that we feel just more excited and encouraged

839
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,479
Speaker 2: to take care of our overall health, our gut health

840
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 2: moving forward.

841
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: A massive mantra in our clinic. It's on the back

842
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 1: of the book actually, and it says, you can't heal

843
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: a body you hate. And I think that's something that

844
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: I want to leave people with. Is that ultimately, all

845
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 1: of the stuff I'm talking about, whether it's the gap

846
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: sport call, or it's different breathing or meditation practices, all

847
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: of this should be predicated on using self care as

848
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: a form of self respect. And I think a lot

849
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: of this stuff can be abused if it's not coming

850
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: in with an intention of saying, how can I nourish myself?

851
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: So I think that that's the paradigm shift. It's part

852
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: of that food piece concept that they talked about earlier

853
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 1: that I think goes a long way because it will

854
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: be sustainable for you. It'll be a source of enjoyment.

855
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: There'll be a grace, there'll be a lightness to all

856
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: of this instead of the sort of artists arduous, punitive

857
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 1: thing that you're trying to greet your teeth through thing.

858
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 2: Well, doctor Will Cole, I'm so happy that we were

859
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: able to do this today again. For those that aren't

860
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 2: following along with you just yet, give us your info.

861
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me. Everything's at Doctorwillcole dot com,

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Speaker 1: the telehealth center. The patient options are there, The links

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00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: to Gut Feelings are there. You can order Gut Feelings

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00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, all independent bookstores, all

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Speaker 1: everywhere books are sold. And the Art of Being Well

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Speaker 1: a podcast links are there as well. Thank you so.

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Speaker 3: Much, amazing, amazing.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to make sure the link to the book

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Speaker 2: as well for pre orders in the show notes. I'm

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00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 2: over at Emily a body at Hurdle Podcast. Another Hurdle conquered.

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Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time.